Speaker 1: He's the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, your war
Speaker 1: room for incenter news and draft analysis from deep within
Speaker 1: the confines of Cowboys headquarters at the Star in Frescope,
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys Liked lamb and now your hosts Brian brought us,
Speaker 1: David Hellman, Bucky Brooks, and Kyle Yeomans. It's underneath forty
Speaker 1: days thirty seven days till the NFL Draft as we
Speaker 1: continue to couch you down and get you ready for it,
Speaker 1: investigating and educating here on the Draft Show, presented by
Speaker 1: Miller Lane. Glad you're with us, you're on this Tuesday
Speaker 1: edition as we've got Brian brought us, Bucky Brooks, the
Speaker 1: Great David Hellman, I'm Kyle Yeomans, and gentlemen, for the
Speaker 1: first time, we might have a medical alert. If we
Speaker 1: had a medical alert drop that just sent sirens going
Speaker 1: off and things going crazy and the sound just to
Speaker 1: kind of get everybody's attention, now would be the time
Speaker 1: to hit it. I don't think we have one of those,
Speaker 1: but major medical news, and we're going to hit it
Speaker 1: right off the top to start things off on the
Speaker 1: Draft Show, because I don't think there's any other way
Speaker 1: we could hit it. But Caleb Farley, huge draft prospect
Speaker 1: out of the cornerback position and a potential Cowboys target,
Speaker 1: having back surgery prior to the season and should miss
Speaker 1: a little bit of time, especially missing his pro day.
Speaker 1: So that's the news that has come down. Of course,
Speaker 1: Adam Schefter was the one that first reported it on
Speaker 1: Monday afternoon. We've had a little bit of time now
Speaker 1: to react to it. But Brian, whenever you first heard
Speaker 1: the news, what was your initial reaction whenever it comes
Speaker 1: to Farley and opt out, who now has some potential
Speaker 1: back issues. Yeah, this is something that you know, the
Speaker 1: teams knew about that. He missed some games before, you know,
Speaker 1: in two and nineteen, the last couple of games he
Speaker 1: had had a similar procedure. He's got some pressure in
Speaker 1: that lower back that he has to release, and yeah,
Speaker 1: this is not a good thing. This is not a
Speaker 1: good sign. And when you start to ask the trainers
Speaker 1: and doctors around the league yesterday afternoon, like I did,
Speaker 1: they were saying, listen, when the longevity questions come into
Speaker 1: play here now you know, and where are you with that?
Speaker 1: Are you willing to say, Okay, he's just that much
Speaker 1: of a talented player that we're going to put that aside.
Speaker 1: We're going to play him and just manage the back
Speaker 1: as we go. Talking to doctors and trainers again, they've
Speaker 1: said that this is something that could be taken care
Speaker 1: of with rehab. But they've also said, hey, there's been
Speaker 1: some good cases, there are also been some bad cases
Speaker 1: of this. So yeah, it's really unfortunate because again, this
Speaker 1: is a player that a lot of people had, including
Speaker 1: myself as a target for the Dallas Cowboys. He was
Speaker 1: cornerback number one for me. And now this gives you
Speaker 1: a little bit of a pause as you as you
Speaker 1: go forward here in this process. Yea makes it really
Speaker 1: really difficult when you're looking at him to say, because
Speaker 1: you already alluded to the fact that he missed games
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, he says all of twenty twenty, we
Speaker 1: won't get a chance to see him with his pro
Speaker 1: day in those things, and we don't know how long
Speaker 1: this is going to impact him in terms of getting
Speaker 1: back on the field. I think what you have to
Speaker 1: end up doing is you have to put a star
Speaker 1: on his tag. You have to get the medical you
Speaker 1: have to get your doctors the way in. But I
Speaker 1: certainly believe that he is demed when it comes to
Speaker 1: the process, I don't believe you can seriously entertain taking
Speaker 1: him at ten And I think it comes of the
Speaker 1: doctors when you can mitigate the risk reward value with
Speaker 1: him as a prospect, just to I guess to wrap
Speaker 1: that up, this is probably the most important and the
Speaker 1: spot where we in the media are at the biggest
Speaker 1: disadvantage is with the medicals because we're hearing about this
Speaker 1: because Caleb Farley needs to have a procedure done right now.
Speaker 1: But I guarantee you all these teams, you know, they
Speaker 1: knew about his past, and it's something they've looked into.
Speaker 1: It's something that comes up on the screens at the
Speaker 1: NFL Combine every year. That's why this usually you know,
Speaker 1: these types of things happen at the combine. You know,
Speaker 1: in a normal year where you don't have COVID. This
Speaker 1: is something where your own doctors would take a look
Speaker 1: if he came to your facility, and we just buy
Speaker 1: and large, we're not going to have access to ninety
Speaker 1: nine percent of that. I remember having a conversation with somebody,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the previous draft cycles. I don't
Speaker 1: want to name the player, but the guy had a
Speaker 1: medical condition that never made it to the media that
Speaker 1: teams knew about, and it dinged his draft stock understandably.
Speaker 1: So if you're worried about his longevity or his ability
Speaker 1: to be available, and it's just the type of stuff
Speaker 1: that we don't have access to. So in the case
Speaker 1: of Caleb Farley, we do because he needs to have
Speaker 1: a procedure right now. But you know, this is the
Speaker 1: type of thing that you've got to worry about and
Speaker 1: you've got to have your hands around when you're talking
Speaker 1: about spending big draft picks, and you know it sucks.
Speaker 1: But I agree with what Bucky just said that, you know,
Speaker 1: I hope Caleb Farley has a super long career and
Speaker 1: I don't know how far he falls because everything I've
Speaker 1: heard is that he'll be available for training camp. But
Speaker 1: it seems like a good guest that he's going to
Speaker 1: fall at least a little bit because of this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Kyle and guys, the thing that you and talking to
Speaker 1: some scouts and I know Buckie does the same thing.
Speaker 1: He works the phones, Dave's got his guys he talks to.
Speaker 1: It's a mess right now for these scouts. The medical information.
Speaker 1: I talked to a team the other day that says,
Speaker 1: this is an absolute mess. And you know, and you
Speaker 1: know they're hitting these pro days and trying to gather information.
Speaker 1: How do you get medical information with hippo laws and
Speaker 1: all that stuff going on. I mean, this is difficult
Speaker 1: on this team and you're making an investment in these players.
Speaker 1: And it reminds me so much of the ninety eight
Speaker 1: draft that we had in Philadelphia with Jeremiah Trotter. You know,
Speaker 1: our doctor Philly had Listen, he said, Brian, I can't
Speaker 1: tell you this guy could play ten games or ten years,
Speaker 1: you know. And I give Jeff Lurie, the owner, a
Speaker 1: lot of credit. He's like, listen, guys, if we like
Speaker 1: this guy enough, let's take him now. It was a
Speaker 1: third round grade. It was a third round get. But
Speaker 1: still those the types of decisions that these teams are
Speaker 1: going to have to make on these medical as they
Speaker 1: get more information. Whenever it came out yesterday about the
Speaker 1: Kayla Farley news, Drew Rosenhouse's agent said he noted a
Speaker 1: late July return for kay La Farley. Cowboys have had
Speaker 1: their own experience with it. This is a tweet from
Speaker 1: Calvin Watkins. By the way, cowboys have had their own
Speaker 1: experience with this type of surgery that Farley is undergoing.
Speaker 1: Tony Romo had the exact same surgery. So I mean,
Speaker 1: if that strikes fear into you, I think it does
Speaker 1: to me a little bit whenever it comes to taking
Speaker 1: him at ten. But Brian, you talked about how he
Speaker 1: was your corner one. You're not alone in that fact.
Speaker 1: A lot of people had kayle La Farley as their
Speaker 1: corner one. Is he still there or are you pushing
Speaker 1: him down the board a little bit if you were
Speaker 1: in that draft room. Yeah, you know, Bucky's gonna hate
Speaker 1: me for this, and Dave's gonna hate me for this.
Speaker 1: I'll fight for the kid. I'll fight the kid, and
Speaker 1: you know what, and I'll you know, if it's something
Speaker 1: that my medical staff feels comfortable with, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be an idiot scout and walk in there and
Speaker 1: say we've got to take this guy. We've got to
Speaker 1: take this guy. But if it's something that we have
Speaker 1: a history with and we're comfortable with, I think that
Speaker 1: the consideration is still there. Now if you tell me that, Hey, listen,
Speaker 1: there's there's some there's some cases where this hasn't gone
Speaker 1: well and we do worry about the longevity of the player.
Speaker 1: You know, I think there is concern. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be that stupid, but you know, I can understand where.
Speaker 1: I can understand where guys like Bucky, who has certain
Speaker 1: up there at number one, this is his opportunity to say, listen,
Speaker 1: let's take the healthy guy. Let's take the guy that's
Speaker 1: been playing. You know, let's take the clean guy. You know,
Speaker 1: when you're picking tenth overall, though, you don't want that mistake.
Speaker 1: You don't want anything hanging over your head. So this
Speaker 1: is clear ammunition for those guys that want another player
Speaker 1: or another position there. And you know what, I could
Speaker 1: fight him to a point, but I can't fight him
Speaker 1: all the way, like if he was completely healthy. So
Speaker 1: cal for your question when you're talking about rankings and grades,
Speaker 1: Yeah I wouldn't. It wouldn't impact my grade at all,
Speaker 1: Like you still grade the player for who the player is.
Speaker 1: And then I think you have to let the medical
Speaker 1: team undress him in terms of way we can use
Speaker 1: alize him, in what kind of tags and stickers we
Speaker 1: put on the card and those things. So I think
Speaker 1: you still have to talk about him as if he's
Speaker 1: a healthy prospect, and then you'll let those that may
Speaker 1: be above I pay grade handle that. When it comes
Speaker 1: to the medical I think what typically happens in these situations,
Speaker 1: you typically dock maybe around or two depending on how
Speaker 1: severe it is. So if we're thinking about him at ten,
Speaker 1: I think earliest consideration would be in the second round
Speaker 1: if a severe and it may even drop down to
Speaker 1: the third round. And so then it comes down to
Speaker 1: how comfortable are you taking on a player who has
Speaker 1: this issue? Because Dallas has had familiarity with it, Tony Romo,
Speaker 1: I want to say another player had a similar surgery
Speaker 1: on the Cowboys in the past, but with Tony Romo
Speaker 1: and understanding and understanding what comes along with it, and
Speaker 1: do they have a plan to get a player up
Speaker 1: and running and being able to play in how to
Speaker 1: manage it as he's going through his career. If they
Speaker 1: have a plan and they feel confident about it, I
Speaker 1: think you can take him and you get him at
Speaker 1: the right value. So what you're telling me is that
Speaker 1: if he's there at forty four and the Cowboys are
Speaker 1: gonna make him their their big gamble pick, because we
Speaker 1: know they love doing that. Yep, Yeah, no, that's yeah,
Speaker 1: they've they've taken The history shows you that with Cherry Jones,
Speaker 1: I believe Bucky might be referring to Tank Lawrence. You know,
Speaker 1: Tank has had some back issues and stuff like that
Speaker 1: that he's had to deal with as well. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's we understand this team will take a risk on
Speaker 1: a medical player. Look, look with Jalen Smith, I don't
Speaker 1: know if they take Jalen Smith unless doctor Cooper does
Speaker 1: the surgery. If doctor Cooper doesn't do the surgery, I
Speaker 1: don't know. But if you listen to Will McClay talk
Speaker 1: about that, like Bucky was telling you, they had his
Speaker 1: tag right there where it was like a blinking light
Speaker 1: for them that that gave them in their mind, it
Speaker 1: was like we got to the second round, let's go
Speaker 1: that's our guy, let's go with it. And you know,
Speaker 1: they didn't share the same feeling, and a lot of others,
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of other teams didn't have that
Speaker 1: same feeling about this guy. So this team is they
Speaker 1: will see value in medical risks, whether it's wrong, whether
Speaker 1: it's right or wrong, that's what they do. They did
Speaker 1: it with Sean Lee as well. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's not just a one off. So no, they've
Speaker 1: done it time and time again. But Bucky, when you're
Speaker 1: talking about grading the players specifically to a healthy prospect,
Speaker 1: and then you have those stickers on there, the worrisome
Speaker 1: thing for me is that I think you put two
Speaker 1: stickers on Farley, you put past history of injuries in,
Speaker 1: I mean maybe three stickers, then the surgery, and then
Speaker 1: the opt out. Because there's those three things right there
Speaker 1: that already worried me enough to where you look across
Speaker 1: to your board with a very similarly graded player at
Speaker 1: least on my board and Patrick's or ten, that's the
Speaker 1: difference maker. That's the difference for me. And and I
Speaker 1: see that you're saying that already by pushing him down
Speaker 1: to forty four. I think at forty four you be
Speaker 1: a great pick depending on who you pick in the
Speaker 1: first round. But is that enough for teams to knock
Speaker 1: him that far because I still think somebody would be
Speaker 1: willing to maybe take a chance on him earlier than
Speaker 1: just forty four. I don't know. I mean, you're talking
Speaker 1: about a lot of money and you just listed off
Speaker 1: a laundry list of issues that you're worried about opt
Speaker 1: out to twenty nineteen in the season prematurely ending, and
Speaker 1: now we have the back surgery. Like that's a lot.
Speaker 1: I think what you're trying to do to reason outside
Speaker 1: of the first round is just because the money changes,
Speaker 1: like it changes significantly in terms of the guarantees and
Speaker 1: those things. And so if you quote unquote throw away
Speaker 1: a second round pick, you can live with that. But
Speaker 1: what you don't want to do is and Brian to
Speaker 1: tell you whatever, like you don't want to give away
Speaker 1: first round picks. In the first round, you can't have
Speaker 1: major swings and misses. And if he's unable to play
Speaker 1: and unable to give you any of what you thought,
Speaker 1: then that's a major miss. In the first round, it's
Speaker 1: about man just hit singles and doubles. If you can
Speaker 1: just get him on base and make sure that he's
Speaker 1: a solid starter, and if he can give you more,
Speaker 1: that's great. In the second round, you can swing for
Speaker 1: the fences because hey, no one's going to pick you
Speaker 1: apart because your second round or doesn't materialize and become
Speaker 1: an All star or those things. And so that's why
Speaker 1: you've seen it where Jayalen Smiths was in the second round.
Speaker 1: I think charl Lee was in the third round. Maybe
Speaker 1: with Charlie it was fifty five overall. I think yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so that second so we're already talking about where he goes.
Speaker 1: So you talk about the blinking light if he gets
Speaker 1: into a situation in the second round, if he's still
Speaker 1: on the board, then you begin to talk, Okay, is
Speaker 1: it worth going up to get him even though he
Speaker 1: has these other factors because we're talking about a guy
Speaker 1: who has a top fifteen grade, someone who were saying
Speaker 1: can be a number one corner in this league, and
Speaker 1: so it's about risk reward, and so you're just trying
Speaker 1: to mitigate it. Yeah, what's going to happen, guys, and
Speaker 1: Bucky knows this too, is that when you're sitting in
Speaker 1: that room and that tag is up there and it's
Speaker 1: your time to pick, you have to compare him to Okay,
Speaker 1: he's going to be on your board in the first round,
Speaker 1: what second round grades do you have? Now? What players?
Speaker 1: What tax do you have left? And that's where the
Speaker 1: risk is. You're gonna say, Okay, we've got a first
Speaker 1: round grade on this guy. We know the issues When
Speaker 1: the minute he gets drafted by somebody, The first thing
Speaker 1: they're going to say on the NFL network is, here's
Speaker 1: a first round player that got picked here because of
Speaker 1: a back, a question about his back. That's that's what's
Speaker 1: going to happen, and that that's immediately that's going to
Speaker 1: be the thing that's going to follow this player the
Speaker 1: rest of his career. You know, whether his back holds
Speaker 1: up and it's a ten twelve year career, or that
Speaker 1: he's a guy that every year he has to get
Speaker 1: something done to his back order to play. Those are
Speaker 1: the questions you have to ask yourself when you're going
Speaker 1: forward and making this pick. Now, right, let me take
Speaker 1: you unnecessarily far down the rabbit hole, because obviously, like
Speaker 1: this is ridiculous, but I'm just curious, do you think
Speaker 1: the Cowboys could try to, like you, like strategize that
Speaker 1: basically is like, hope that Caleb Farley does fall to
Speaker 1: you and you can make him that pick, and then
Speaker 1: now you could use number ten to not address cornerback
Speaker 1: and hope that that works out for you. Plus, I mean,
Speaker 1: there are obviously other cornerbacks I could fall to you
Speaker 1: at forty four. Anyway, this is one of the questions
Speaker 1: I was have as well. Because whenever you looked at
Speaker 1: the trio where it was certain it was Farley or
Speaker 1: it was Patrick Slater or excuse me, Rashaan Slater at
Speaker 1: pick number ten. Now that it's just a choice between
Speaker 1: the two if he falls, I mean, is that something
Speaker 1: that the Cowboys could be interested in? Brian, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think they're. You know, that's a great question, because
Speaker 1: but let me tell you where I think to answer
Speaker 1: Dave's question first, and Bucky knows this as well. When
Speaker 1: you're every team is member of a pod, and you know,
Speaker 1: when they go to the combine, they have a group
Speaker 1: of teams that they work with. So for example, the
Speaker 1: Cowboys might be in the same pod with the Giants,
Speaker 1: the Buccaneers, the Saints, the Eagles. I mean, they're they're
Speaker 1: a working group of doctors and trainers, and Jim Mauer,
Speaker 1: the trainer, does an excellent job of getting all the
Speaker 1: medical grades from all the teams. So if you get
Speaker 1: a situation where all of a sudden you're seeing Farley's
Speaker 1: name as a fail on a bunch of teams, that
Speaker 1: could be strategy right there. You know, Jim Mauer could
Speaker 1: walk in as they're talking about this. Maureck could say
Speaker 1: eighteen teams have failed Farley on his back. That could
Speaker 1: give you a little idea of like, Okay, who are
Speaker 1: we battling now, who's given him the best grades, who's
Speaker 1: given him the passing grades? You know? So yeah, you
Speaker 1: could you could get a pretty good understanding of where
Speaker 1: you're where you need to maybe make this pick. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I listen, if if, if it comes down to Slater
Speaker 1: and Certain and Horn and Pitts, and yeah, you're gonna
Speaker 1: look at the healthy guys. You're gonna look at the
Speaker 1: guys that are that are played, uh, you know, and
Speaker 1: and again, I can't fight Bucky anymore on Certain. I
Speaker 1: just hope, I hope it Pro Day in Alabama today.
Speaker 1: I hope it runs real fast. I really do. That
Speaker 1: would make me feel a lot better about the situation.
Speaker 1: But I just you just said up here earlier before
Speaker 1: we got on air and talked about you trust the tape,
Speaker 1: and now you're worried about the Pro Day workout. I
Speaker 1: trust the tape. I trust no, No, I absolutely, I
Speaker 1: absolutely trust the tape. Because I've just saying though for
Speaker 1: my own for my own mind, I trust my eyes,
Speaker 1: I trust my I don't see a fast player I
Speaker 1: don't see a fast player. That's what I'm saying. I
Speaker 1: don't make I don't. I hope he proves me. Well,
Speaker 1: I hope me wrong, because SO see a fast player.
Speaker 1: So callin Dave. I'm gonna show your tricks. So when
Speaker 1: I go to Pro Day, normally I always have my
Speaker 1: pen But when I go to Alabama Pro Day, we're
Speaker 1: past or ten, I'm bringing my pencil. And the reason
Speaker 1: why I'm bringing my pencil because if he happens to
Speaker 1: clock a four or five five, there's an eraser here
Speaker 1: that mysteriously can make that at four four nine round
Speaker 1: the card that I send in. So Ryan and all
Speaker 1: the higher us will be satisfied that he's fast enough. Hey,
Speaker 1: I'll just say I'm Ryan. Just like Ryan. I tell
Speaker 1: you he likes the thirty eight yard. Dad, I'm saying, Bucky,
Speaker 1: but don't don't work out the pencil. Keep your pen
Speaker 1: Just give me thirty eight yards, just kind of like yards.
Speaker 1: If you really want to play, cut that thing. You
Speaker 1: know it's a little bit off. No, I want. I
Speaker 1: want the kids. Hey, what do we what do we
Speaker 1: see with the kid bolted from Missouri? You watch that team,
Speaker 1: he goes down four or five nine four six z. Yeah.
Speaker 1: See it's I'm saying, I mean, you want to Washington's
Speaker 1: the same way. He's a shorter guy, makes a ton
Speaker 1: of plays at TCU. I'm saying, the eyes tell me
Speaker 1: a lot. I do I want. Do I want Curtain
Speaker 1: to run fast? Yes? I do. I want to be
Speaker 1: wrong about him, I really do. I mean, you know, look,
Speaker 1: I would say, I would say this. There are a
Speaker 1: couple of things about Curtain. I like Curtain as the player.
Speaker 1: I do believe um he has been helped by the
Speaker 1: fact that, look, his dad was an All Pro player,
Speaker 1: so he understands. I think he plays take his dad like.
Speaker 1: I think he plays the game like a like a
Speaker 1: like a grown up. The issue that I will have
Speaker 1: and I think, look, we can't scout the helmet, but
Speaker 1: if you really go back and dig into Alabama corners,
Speaker 1: there really hasn't been a star corner to come out
Speaker 1: of Alabama. Like, if we really honestly assess it, as
Speaker 1: good as Alabama has been throughout the years, there hasn't
Speaker 1: been a corner to come out of Alabama and play
Speaker 1: at a level there We're like, oh my gosh, they're
Speaker 1: just a factory producing elite cornerbacks and so there is
Speaker 1: something too that and so you have to be able
Speaker 1: to look and see what does it look like. I
Speaker 1: mean even our own digs when Diggs came in, like
Speaker 1: there were some things early in the year, You're like,
Speaker 1: I don't know in the speed issue in those things.
Speaker 1: So I would just like to say, and I hear you,
Speaker 1: and you're not wrong, but yeah, I mean I have
Speaker 1: to tell you. All I'm saying is that's all well
Speaker 1: and good, like Okay, you could say the same thing
Speaker 1: about Alabama safeties. Mark Baron was a huge disappointment. Ha ha,
Speaker 1: Clinton Dicks pretty disappointing, Mega fifth Patrick kicks ass well.
Speaker 1: And I mean, so all it takes is for the
Speaker 1: right guy to come along and buck the trend. And
Speaker 1: so I just I don't necessarily buy that. Yah, that's
Speaker 1: all I'm saying. Now, that's good point. I mean I
Speaker 1: get that, but that's fine. But once you asked Brian
Speaker 1: brought us about Penn State corners, We're still waiting on
Speaker 1: a Penn State corner to play, like, so, I mean
Speaker 1: there's there there's something too sometimes like you have to
Speaker 1: get away from like hey whatever, whereas the street corners
Speaker 1: hire your steak. Corners begin to play like there's something
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's into water or whatever, but
Speaker 1: there's something too. You just have to be a little leering,
Speaker 1: a little careful because are they coached up so well
Speaker 1: that their max out when they get into the league. Like,
Speaker 1: there's a reason why scouts. There's a reason why scouts
Speaker 1: are doing media now because State quarners and defensive the
Speaker 1: Mississippi State defensive tackles and all that stuff. The visual
Speaker 1: just go for it, Dave, go ahead, I'm Penn Steak.
Speaker 1: Put out a bunch of bum running backs too. And
Speaker 1: then Sakeuon Barkley came along and yeah, Sands, maybe it's
Speaker 1: going up's going maybe he's going up. But but the
Speaker 1: detractor Met was saying, but take Quon Barkley was on
Speaker 1: the sideline last year. All we ever gonna see the
Speaker 1: sea Quon Barkley. Yeah, I'm just saying I'm not ready
Speaker 1: to call him Curtis, Curtis Enis or anything, but I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, oh, Curtis, sometimes I was right about him.
Speaker 1: Jeff Lurry, you you Jeff Lurry, the owner. The owner
Speaker 1: comes into the room real quick. Jeff Leuriy comes see
Speaker 1: it and he's been talking to other owners and you
Speaker 1: know about Curtis Senis and we got a second round
Speaker 1: tag on him, and Jeff Jeff goes, mister Lewie goes, man,
Speaker 1: that Curtis Senias, we sure have him low. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: mister Lurie, He's like a he's a two hundred and
Speaker 1: forty pound guy. He runs slow. Now he's gonna he's
Speaker 1: gonna get bigger. He's gonna slow down. And mister Lewis
Speaker 1: is like, okay, okay, okay. To this day, every time
Speaker 1: Jeff Luriy sees me, he says, Brian, you were right
Speaker 1: about curtisiness. So I mean I got one guy. I
Speaker 1: got one guy. I got one guy. The visual of
Speaker 1: the show so far was Brian kind of perking up
Speaker 1: and getting ready to say what he was gonna say
Speaker 1: about potential and scouting the helmet and whatnot, and then
Speaker 1: and then Bucky bringing up Pinnstay Corners and Brian just
Speaker 1: kind of suck it's like so back into his chair
Speaker 1: and said you're right, You're right. That was the best
Speaker 1: visual if you could go back and not wrong. It
Speaker 1: is so good. You do this look you do this
Speaker 1: long enough, Kyle, I swear, yeah, it will you. You'll
Speaker 1: have a millionaire you can wear. You know, tell about
Speaker 1: We're in the albatross around your neck, you know the one. No,
Speaker 1: you can have a slew of players. They never I never,
Speaker 1: I never remember the good ones. I remember all the
Speaker 1: bad ones. Yeah, that's the one I will take to
Speaker 1: the Lake House with me. I will remember that every day. Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm sure I'm taking it to the lake House. Let's
Speaker 1: take it to break while we got a chance to
Speaker 1: and try and get to Twitter on the twenty a
Speaker 1: little bit on time. You got submitted eighty questions this week.
Speaker 1: It goes up every single week. This is unbelievable. But
Speaker 1: we've got some really good ones to hit when we
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Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Thank You're on
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. It's a Tuesday
Speaker 1: ED issue and we're already underway. Hey, we got to
Speaker 1: Twitter on the twenty in the twenties. I'm pretty happy
Speaker 1: about that. That's pretty good. It's like the first time
Speaker 1: that we've been caught over. Let's go to Twitter on
Speaker 1: the twenty on the twenty, I think the sounder played
Speaker 1: in the background. What were you gonna say, Brian, I
Speaker 1: was gonna say that our ability to answer questions, we
Speaker 1: get seventy questions and we seem to get to one
Speaker 1: or two score our scoring positions got it's terrible. You
Speaker 1: gotta go lightening round, man. So we're our percentage is terrible.
Speaker 1: You've got to tell us all to shut the hell up.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a better job of shutting up. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, let's do this. How about that let's try
Speaker 1: and get through as many of these questions as we
Speaker 1: potentially can. I'll even give us till ten forty five
Speaker 1: to do it, so we've got twenty minutes to get
Speaker 1: as many questions in as possible. Start starting off with Brandon.
Speaker 1: He says, for Brian and Bucky Dave of coourse, you
Speaker 1: can answer this as well. But he says, how much
Speaker 1: external networking is used with other teams to verify a
Speaker 1: thought on a prospect? If you have good friends from
Speaker 1: other teams, do you honestly give an opinion slash advice?
Speaker 1: Or is there a ton of smoking mirrors between different
Speaker 1: apartments from different organizations go for a buckie? It depends.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say departments. I think we all have scouting
Speaker 1: buddies that we lean on, and there's certain guys that
Speaker 1: have an expertise and positions, and so there are guys
Speaker 1: that I would call on. If I'm having a tough
Speaker 1: time with an offensive lineman, I may ask, hey, man,
Speaker 1: what do you think? Am I missing anything? Am I off?
Speaker 1: It may not necessarily change my opinion, but I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to get another perspective because I'm stuck, and I
Speaker 1: think that's very very common when guys get stuck on
Speaker 1: a player they can't really figure them out, that you
Speaker 1: may lean onto like your personal village to kind of
Speaker 1: help you along the way. When I was scouting, had
Speaker 1: a bunch of guys Sammy Seal and cry Darlingson and
Speaker 1: a bunch of guys that we kind of wear a
Speaker 1: rat pack on the road that I knew that I
Speaker 1: could get an honest evaluation and perspective on them, and
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be one of those things where oh we're
Speaker 1: sharing information, don't tell It's just one of those things
Speaker 1: where you develop friendships on the road and confidence that
Speaker 1: you trust, and so you kind of lean on those
Speaker 1: guys sometimes when you do have a tough time sorting
Speaker 1: it all out. Yeah, Book, He's absolutely right. There's guys
Speaker 1: that you do call up they feel like they might
Speaker 1: have a better feel of a position. You really trust
Speaker 1: them as an evaluator. I'll tell you where you do
Speaker 1: share information. Maybe you're in a situation on a pro
Speaker 1: day where you go hit a particular school and your
Speaker 1: buddy scout hits another school and then you exchange those numbers.
Speaker 1: Is what you can maybe do if you if it's
Speaker 1: a small school, situation. Maybe you go into Tartland State
Speaker 1: or something like that, you know, and you want to
Speaker 1: go get that guy and you trade it with another
Speaker 1: guy who's at another pro day. That's that's really how
Speaker 1: you work together and make it all work. It's really
Speaker 1: a family out there. I mean, some of the guys
Speaker 1: you absolutely hate, but there's a lot of guys out
Speaker 1: there you love and really have a lot of respect
Speaker 1: for them. Yeah. I've always thought, obviously, like you work
Speaker 1: for a team and you want that team to be successful.
Speaker 1: But like Scout's view themselves as a team, you know,
Speaker 1: like they're the worker bees of the NFL, and you know,
Speaker 1: you got buddies and you want each other to succeed.
Speaker 1: That's the experience that I've always gotten just from being
Speaker 1: around scouts. Yeah, and from going to the combine and
Speaker 1: having those networking events and being around guys like Bucky
Speaker 1: and Bryant who have been a part of it. I'm
Speaker 1: kind of the right there with you, Dave. From the outside,
Speaker 1: looking into the scouting departments of the NFL, I could
Speaker 1: see how that's the case. Okay, this one comes from Kofax,
Speaker 1: and I'm actually using this because he called me mister
Speaker 1: mean Green, So I like that at off the top,
Speaker 1: so that's why I'm picking it. But it's a good question.
Speaker 1: Do you think even if the Cowboys sign one or
Speaker 1: both of the free safeties that are coming in for
Speaker 1: visits this week, talking about de Demante Kazi or Malie Cooker,
Speaker 1: do you think that they will still draft safety high
Speaker 1: in this draft? Dave So, I'm just gonna take this
Speaker 1: opportunity to be a smart ass and say I got
Speaker 1: to see them. I got see them use a high
Speaker 1: pick on a safety before I believe it's going to happen.
Speaker 1: They haven't done it since like what thousand and two?
Speaker 1: Ye or I mean, you know they did draft JJ
Speaker 1: Wilcox in the third and twenty thirteen. But if we're
Speaker 1: talking like a top fifty pick, I gotta see it
Speaker 1: to believe it. But I said this on Twitter last week.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a silver lining to the way
Speaker 1: the Cowboys run free agency, it's that they're not going
Speaker 1: to do a deal that'll stop them from drafting anybody.
Speaker 1: You know, Kean O'Neil's a one year deal all I
Speaker 1: think the longest deal they've signed so far is like
Speaker 1: two years, six million for Terrell bats the bashmashhop. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if they sign one of these guys, I promise
Speaker 1: you it'll be a one or two year prove it deal.
Speaker 1: And so no, I mean that's not going to stop them.
Speaker 1: I think their own biases against the safety position is
Speaker 1: what's going to stop them. Yeah. I think the previous
Speaker 1: regime had something against safeties. I really really do. And
Speaker 1: so I feel like with dan Quinn, they're making an
Speaker 1: effort to try and do is me personally, I'd like
Speaker 1: to see him sign Hooker. Yea, let's do it. I
Speaker 1: there's there's something there's something about that tape from back
Speaker 1: in the day. Maybe you catch lightning in a bottle
Speaker 1: and he plays a full sixteen for you. It might
Speaker 1: be tough, but I would that's that's the one. If
Speaker 1: you're gonna go get a guy, go get him. And
Speaker 1: then let's find a way to draft a guy. Those
Speaker 1: are the two things I would do. Because here's what
Speaker 1: also plays into why Malie Cooker would be the one.
Speaker 1: Malie cook is a former first round pick. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so sometimes a change of scenery, a different scheme can
Speaker 1: allow him to play at that level. Yes, he has
Speaker 1: an injury history and you have to sort through that stuff.
Speaker 1: But if you're thinking about the position that they're feeling
Speaker 1: is the ornament on top of the Christmas tree. You
Speaker 1: want a guy who was a big time centefield about
Speaker 1: ball hawk guys who has skills. This was a guy
Speaker 1: coming out, like they would tell you when you go
Speaker 1: back into his high school background, he was a dominant
Speaker 1: basketball player, gray handout, coordination and athleticism. He's not that
Speaker 1: same athlete. But if you talk Rbert Meyer raved about
Speaker 1: this guy when he was coming out in terms of
Speaker 1: just how he developed and what he could be at
Speaker 1: the next level, I would be willing to give him
Speaker 1: a chance to see if he can come back healthy
Speaker 1: and man that position, because you could end up getting
Speaker 1: what Dave Hillman wants, which is a top pick. You
Speaker 1: just have got him at a disc gun and you
Speaker 1: got a nice used car, hey, and that that is
Speaker 1: a Cowboys hallmark under Will McClay. No, they love giving
Speaker 1: second chances to big time you know, former first round
Speaker 1: draft picks or you know, big time talented big school
Speaker 1: guys who, whether it's character issues, whether it's injuries, have
Speaker 1: fallen out of favor. That's if you asked me to guess,
Speaker 1: I think I think they're I think they'll try their
Speaker 1: hardest to sign Hooker if if they can get one
Speaker 1: of these guys. Well, when I said this on the
Speaker 1: fan last night, But the reason they're coming and actually
Speaker 1: making their way to Frisco, even in the midst of
Speaker 1: the craziness, still in the socially distant COVID off season, again,
Speaker 1: it's because they need to check the medicals and they
Speaker 1: need to look at the physicals and try and see
Speaker 1: between these two guys. One's more a lot more ready
Speaker 1: to play and more ready to play sixteen games, like
Speaker 1: Bucky said, and catch lightning in a bottle. If everything's
Speaker 1: even between the two and everybody's good, I would still
Speaker 1: pick Hooker. But I don't know. That's my biggest question
Speaker 1: because if they end up signing Kazi, that means I
Speaker 1: think that they saw something in Hooker's medicals that scared
Speaker 1: them into doing something a little bit more long term. Now,
Speaker 1: this next question comes from Patrick Drew on Twitter. He said,
Speaker 1: I'm interested in terms of raiding the offensive line in
Speaker 1: this year's class compared to last year's class, Where would
Speaker 1: Pinney sul and rashaunse later ran compared to the four
Speaker 1: top fifteen picks that the twenty twenty class had. Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 1: M m mmmm. Those guys last year were really really good.
Speaker 1: They were good. Yeah it was Walter Jones to me,
Speaker 1: M yeah, Tristan Worth's I mean was good. McKay Beckton
Speaker 1: was a hog. The only one was the first, the
Speaker 1: first one to come off the board was maybe the
Speaker 1: worst out of all of them. I look at I
Speaker 1: look at this class. I think the top three. Um,
Speaker 1: and I'm saying, Putney sewel Rashawn Slater, and Elijah very
Speaker 1: Tucky in whatever order you put him in. I think
Speaker 1: they all would be in that that conversation. I think
Speaker 1: there is a bit of a drop off after that
Speaker 1: when you talk about Derenshaw and Jenkins and whoever else
Speaker 1: you want to kind of throw in that conversation. Even
Speaker 1: though I'm hearing, um, the Notre Dame kid is flying,
Speaker 1: I can birth like they're talking about seven offensive tackles
Speaker 1: that can go in the first round. Wow. Wow, I
Speaker 1: told you this. I said this about this guy. Man.
Speaker 1: You were on them to me at all, you were
Speaker 1: on the pet he was a pet cat guy. I
Speaker 1: mean we had this conversation three weeks ago. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: guys need to the old man, the old man Hattie.
Speaker 1: So I mean, I mean the old man like you're
Speaker 1: claiming pet Cats and Dard December. I mean like, I mean,
Speaker 1: like we haven't even done the full grade in the
Speaker 1: vun Oh man, he had the vision. I had the
Speaker 1: vision of the player said he would like a second
Speaker 1: or third round pick when we talked about the second round.
Speaker 1: I have him. He's my he's my number one player
Speaker 1: in the second round. Number one player in the second round. Okay,
Speaker 1: he's well, I mean, if you're gonna give him the
Speaker 1: six nine grade, you might as well give him a seven.
Speaker 1: Oh likew he liked that big. I do. I want
Speaker 1: one to watch him. I want to put this out
Speaker 1: there just really quickly. Whenever I submitted the rankings for
Speaker 1: the draft magazine, Aikenberg was a little bit further down
Speaker 1: than I would like him to be. I've seen him
Speaker 1: raised because I went back and watched him. No, I
Speaker 1: went back and watched him. That was the other thing
Speaker 1: is I saw him at the Senior Bowl and I
Speaker 1: was not very impressed. And then I went back and
Speaker 1: watched him a little bit more and I was a
Speaker 1: little more impressed. So I don't know that and I'm
Speaker 1: not taking I'm not taking a shot at Kyle, but
Speaker 1: people to get shomped in. They're like, you know, they
Speaker 1: see you know it happened, and that's what you know.
Speaker 1: I love I love draft media. It's so much fun.
Speaker 1: I love working with y'all and everybody else that's that
Speaker 1: you know on Twitter. But you great a guy. And
Speaker 1: then you know, around this time of year, people are
Speaker 1: talking about him as a first round pick and you're like, oh, crap,
Speaker 1: I guess I need to take another look. And you
Speaker 1: go back and you're like, oh, yeah, okay, it's been
Speaker 1: a week going back and looking at players that you
Speaker 1: should have looked at it a different I think the
Speaker 1: other thing with Eikenberg and like we've kind of lumped
Speaker 1: into this scouting the helmet conversation. But here's the thing,
Speaker 1: Notre Dame offensive lineman and their success rate. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: they have done a great job of producer. And so
Speaker 1: when you get it there and you hear a great
Speaker 1: leader control the old line room, smart tough, has a
Speaker 1: bunch of stars on his bilt, you then think about
Speaker 1: the coaching and what he's been exposed to you like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like I mean, worst case, he's just gonna be an
Speaker 1: okay starter, but you get all of the good things.
Speaker 1: And so that's why if you're at the bottom of
Speaker 1: the first round and you're like, maybe they can't see
Speaker 1: chieps you down at thirty or whatever, like you know,
Speaker 1: I can't go wrong. Like he's not necessarily an exceptional player,
Speaker 1: but he's pretty good, so we'll take me in the
Speaker 1: first round. Yeah, that's the you know I was. I
Speaker 1: was impressed by him though, and again I didn't have
Speaker 1: the guts to put him in the first part. I
Speaker 1: knew that he needed I knew that he needed to
Speaker 1: be the Again, I love that Virginia Tech kid. I
Speaker 1: really do. Not there so I mean there, I think
Speaker 1: the one that I'm still hanging as uh Jenkins from Oklahoma. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I like, look, he's the first round player.
Speaker 1: He's going in the first round. Just that that's worried
Speaker 1: like sometimes, like I mean, like i'd like to see
Speaker 1: guys move people off the one. I know in the
Speaker 1: Big twelve no one's really doing that. I know it's
Speaker 1: like seven on seven with the little bodies in front,
Speaker 1: but I don't know, I kind of like to see
Speaker 1: him move people. Yeah, No, it's a rare thing to
Speaker 1: see people move people. Yeah, all right, this next question
Speaker 1: and he moved to furniture. This next question comes from Tim.
Speaker 1: He said, if you were the cowboy Boys and if
Speaker 1: they were to package their second round pick and one
Speaker 1: of their third round picks to get back into the
Speaker 1: first round. One is that possible? And two? Who could
Speaker 1: you see the Cowboys potentially targeting if that were the case.
Speaker 1: I think the answer is definitely yes. Yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: if a top fifty pick and then you know, regardless
Speaker 1: of which one you use, it's another top one hundred pick,
Speaker 1: I mean forty four seventy five will get you to
Speaker 1: Washington at nineteen. Wow. I would do that. If you're
Speaker 1: telling me J. C. Horne is there, give it to me,
Speaker 1: and then I'll already have picked to Brushawn's later at ten.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know why the Cowboys, to be
Speaker 1: honest with you, and I know this we're talking about draft.
Speaker 1: I don't know why the Cowboys don't use one of
Speaker 1: those compensatory threes, fours or their five and try and
Speaker 1: go get an established player from another team. But you know,
Speaker 1: instead of saying, oh, we're looking at hurt safeties, go
Speaker 1: off for a third round pick for a young, young,
Speaker 1: real safety, a guy that's already been playing. I think
Speaker 1: the cat plays into that though, because that's my things.
Speaker 1: It probably does. I know I've just thrown it out
Speaker 1: there like that. But to me, you earn those compensatory picks,
Speaker 1: You earn those. Take him if you got to move
Speaker 1: him to go back into this thing. Yeah, if you
Speaker 1: take Pits at ten and you jump back in there
Speaker 1: and grab one of those quarters, you say, you grab
Speaker 1: Newsom or somebody like that. You know that's that's in
Speaker 1: that spot. Heck, yes, yeah, let's go. Let's get back
Speaker 1: in there, you know. I mean, I'm not gonna sit
Speaker 1: there and just say, okay, let's pick at seventy five
Speaker 1: and ninety nine. No, I'm going I'm gonna try, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try and grab some of these players off
Speaker 1: my board. Brian can't stand like letting the draft come
Speaker 1: to him, which is weird because he admires. He admires
Speaker 1: Baltimore so much, and that's what Baltimore does every year.
Speaker 1: But every year Brian wants to get rid of all
Speaker 1: of his picks. I want to move in a way.
Speaker 1: I want to move to get better players, is what
Speaker 1: I want to do. That's that's all I'm asking to do.
Speaker 1: Baltimore is the Baltimore in like Pittsburgh, they sit there
Speaker 1: and like, well, what's the number one need for Baltimore. Oh,
Speaker 1: they need to tied in. They win the Super Bowl
Speaker 1: and then they get the best tied into fall to
Speaker 1: him at thirty two. Yeah you know, well, I mean
Speaker 1: maybe if you aren't trying to get rid of all
Speaker 1: your picks, you could do that too. Nah. You know what,
Speaker 1: the cowboy, Baltimore's roster is better than your roster. You
Speaker 1: saw the last year with your own eyes, confinitely. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So if I'm going to beat Baltimore, it's not going
Speaker 1: to be sitting around waiting for me to pick somebody
Speaker 1: at seventy five or somebody at ninety nine. It is
Speaker 1: I honestly, I see the appeal and and what y'all
Speaker 1: just said. You know, you can tie that to the
Speaker 1: tackle conversation if you if you tell me, if you
Speaker 1: tell like, let's let's just say they draft their ten
Speaker 1: at ten, because I think that's what they would prefer
Speaker 1: it to. Yeah, if he's there, I think he's the
Speaker 1: I think he's the pick, and so you draft him
Speaker 1: ten and Genberg or Tevin Jenkins is hanging around at
Speaker 1: like twenty six package forty four and h and ninety
Speaker 1: nine and get up there and get yourself a tackle.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't hate that at all. I'd be in favor
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, I think what you have to do
Speaker 1: to execute it, Like Brian talks about, I think you
Speaker 1: have to have your handful of players, like you have
Speaker 1: to have a bag of players that you would like
Speaker 1: to get. And we do these exercises throughout the time
Speaker 1: as it gets closer to the draft, where hey, what
Speaker 1: does my ideal first two days look like if I
Speaker 1: have this player, this player, and that player, how would
Speaker 1: you field on the day or what about this combination
Speaker 1: of players. I think you have to have a handful
Speaker 1: of guys that you would like to identify as these
Speaker 1: other guys that we would really like to have, and
Speaker 1: you should have a handful of them in each round,
Speaker 1: and if you can get in range to get those guys,
Speaker 1: get them. I am all about the players over picks.
Speaker 1: Like I know that a lottery tickets in any anybody
Speaker 1: can come out of it, but I would much rather
Speaker 1: have the play is that I want, as opposed to
Speaker 1: just sitting there on a bunch of picks that I'm
Speaker 1: just picking guys just to be picking them. The whole
Speaker 1: thing called end with this real quick. You know, I
Speaker 1: said I was going to be brief in our front.
Speaker 1: The thing that I don't want to sit there after
Speaker 1: day two and going into day three, which is the
Speaker 1: scouts day. You know, the scouts day is at day three,
Speaker 1: day two, I don't want to be looking at all
Speaker 1: the tags that are picked and looking at someone else's
Speaker 1: team and going, damn, they drafted better than me today,
Speaker 1: you know. And and if somebody I always did that
Speaker 1: with the Chargers. The Chargers were always the team that
Speaker 1: I would look at and go, damn, they drafted better
Speaker 1: than me today, you know. And I don't want that.
Speaker 1: I want to be the one that says my grades
Speaker 1: on that board, my grades on those tags are better
Speaker 1: than anybody else's grades on those tags. You know. I
Speaker 1: admire teams that can move around and find spots. Bucky's right,
Speaker 1: you know, your defense is a liability. Go fix it,
Speaker 1: you know. And if it means moving around doing some things,
Speaker 1: go fix it. Yeah. And I think it's likely that
Speaker 1: you're gonna see the Cowboys be aggressive in that fact,
Speaker 1: especially in Day two and day three, because you have
Speaker 1: ten picks. You have ten picks right now, which, by
Speaker 1: the way, salary cap wise, it's gonna a lot about
Speaker 1: eleven million dollars. If you cut that down to eight
Speaker 1: picks and you package a couple to go up, then
Speaker 1: you'd have less people to pay. I mean, I know
Speaker 1: that money is different and the allotment is different from
Speaker 1: the different rounds, but it could play out in the
Speaker 1: fact that, hey, instead of paying ten players, you're gonna
Speaker 1: pay seven players, but you went up and got a
Speaker 1: couple of top name guys and you're able to kind
Speaker 1: of maneuver your way around. I think it's very likely
Speaker 1: the Cowboys, and it may not be forty four and
Speaker 1: seventy five or forty four and ninety nine. It may
Speaker 1: be two of their fourth round picks, or it might
Speaker 1: be two of their sixth round picks going up and
Speaker 1: trying to go get somebody else. So I think it's
Speaker 1: it's possible. The movement is going to be there now.
Speaker 1: This is the We might get two more questions in
Speaker 1: have you guys seen Jamar Johnson safety Jamar Johnson? He
Speaker 1: is out of Indiana. Anybody watched the school, I have
Speaker 1: not no no what was the school? Indiana? And Annamar Johnson.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna skip this question. Basically, that's the homework
Speaker 1: assignment is go watch him because apparently Lancer Lion has
Speaker 1: him as the number two safety on the board. Um,
Speaker 1: and somebody was asking us, GC was asking us. So
Speaker 1: that's homework assignment. Yeah. Can I ask a real quick question,
Speaker 1: what's the situation with Perkins from Oklahoma? What's what's his
Speaker 1: what's his story? Bucky? You got something on him? Perkins day.
Speaker 1: I just know my podcast partner Danny Jeremiah fell in
Speaker 1: love with him and started throwing his name out, and
Speaker 1: I know that casts some buzz until the pro day
Speaker 1: and then he worked out and then all the bus
Speaker 1: quiet run really fast. Um, he flashed a little bit
Speaker 1: like he flashed a little bit of activity at I
Speaker 1: think you have five and a half sacks and those
Speaker 1: things like six games. Yeah, there's something, there's something that
Speaker 1: you have to dig in on that he wanted to
Speaker 1: try to address. I was saying the tape to me,
Speaker 1: there's some positive things about the tape. I had not heard.
Speaker 1: I watched him last night because i'd heard a little
Speaker 1: the buzz you're talking about, but I do you know,
Speaker 1: people were talking about him like a first or second
Speaker 1: round guy. That's not the case in my opinion. But
Speaker 1: I was just curious if there was something more that
Speaker 1: I was missing there. But there's there's you know, we
Speaker 1: played six games and he said, hey, I have to mature,
Speaker 1: I have to be better. I made a mistake, and
Speaker 1: so he's trying to be on the front end of
Speaker 1: whatever's about to come out in the back. I just
Speaker 1: wondered if someunthody had heard him. Yeah, something, something must
Speaker 1: be some in the background that he's trying to get
Speaker 1: got got you all right, Kyle, I'm sorry about Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a great question, and that's somebody I know.
Speaker 1: The Cowboys have at least looked that direction at um.
Speaker 1: Now this next question comes from Landing McBride on Twitter.
Speaker 1: He said, what are we supposed to think of Jason Away,
Speaker 1: the edge rusher from Penn State. I mean, we're talking
Speaker 1: about pinn State corners. A little bit earlier on, he said,
Speaker 1: all all of the cycle traits of a very good
Speaker 1: pass rusher without the production, what round could he potentially
Speaker 1: end up going in? And that's about right. He didn't
Speaker 1: have a single sack in twenty twenty after having five
Speaker 1: the season prior. The production just wasn't there. But I
Speaker 1: mean he's a fun one to watch on tape. Brian, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he is, and you know, and I mean he's he's
Speaker 1: really got ideal size. I mean, if you talked about
Speaker 1: those edge type players, I know, going in I had him.
Speaker 1: He might be bigger. The measurements might have changed him
Speaker 1: at six five two fifty five. But man, I did
Speaker 1: see a guy that could attack the corner. I saw
Speaker 1: a burst of the way play, the lateral agility I
Speaker 1: thought was really really good, the change in direction. There's
Speaker 1: some there's some problems though with this guy finding the ball.
Speaker 1: And I was like, man, physically everything checks off and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden it's like WHOA ball went
Speaker 1: buy it? Or WHOA what's he looking at? Or you know,
Speaker 1: he's locked up with a blocker trying to get often.
Speaker 1: You know, if you could get the Ohio State game,
Speaker 1: that's one to watch where he said several of those
Speaker 1: mistakes in Ohio State's got a good offensive line. But
Speaker 1: I mean, man, he could force turnovers. He's got the ability.
Speaker 1: But I just wonder though, and I'm not saying the
Speaker 1: mental but what is he really seeing as he's playing
Speaker 1: the game, And I don't know if anybody else saw
Speaker 1: the player the similar similar fashion to me. Bryan, I
Speaker 1: think his biggest issue I don't know if he's played
Speaker 1: a lot of football. I think he would late to
Speaker 1: the party when it came to a problem that might
Speaker 1: be they I think. I think I think he may
Speaker 1: have only played one or two years in high school.
Speaker 1: Um coming over, So I don't Yeah, I don't know
Speaker 1: how much exposure he has, like Um. We did an
Speaker 1: interview where we talked to him and he talked about
Speaker 1: you know, I would because the question was why should
Speaker 1: someone view you as a first round pick this and
Speaker 1: that when you don't have production? And his response, in
Speaker 1: a roundabout way, he was, look, my best football is
Speaker 1: ahead of me. I see the athleticism and all tools
Speaker 1: that I have and putting it together in those things,
Speaker 1: which isn't necessarily what you want to hear, but that
Speaker 1: was his thing. He hasn't played a lot of ball,
Speaker 1: and so what he is is a height, weight, speed dude.
Speaker 1: He's a great athlete who has tremendous activity and not
Speaker 1: a lot of achievement when it comes to being able
Speaker 1: to get the quarterback to the ground, and so where
Speaker 1: do you take a chance of that from. I'm not
Speaker 1: comfortable taking a guy like that in the first round.
Speaker 1: I typically would prefer my projects outside of the first round.
Speaker 1: But if you're saying in the second round, we're looking
Speaker 1: for a pass rusher, Okay, let's throw it dirt and
Speaker 1: let's see if he can hit. Because he is going
Speaker 1: to run like the wind, he's gonna jump like Superman
Speaker 1: and all those other things. But now can you teach
Speaker 1: him to put his hand in the dirt and go
Speaker 1: make plays. I don't know if that necessarily can be taught.
Speaker 1: I think some of that is a natural field, a
Speaker 1: natural instinct. I don't know how much of that you
Speaker 1: can teach a player, you know. Yeah, two thoughts? Yeah one? Sorry,
Speaker 1: go ahead, Brian, No, No, that's it. I had him
Speaker 1: in the second round. I thought I thought it was
Speaker 1: really I thought it was maybe too harsh on him.
Speaker 1: But like I didn't know all about the not playing
Speaker 1: football very much. But I just saw a guy. Though.
Speaker 1: When you when you don't find the ball well enough
Speaker 1: for me, then I don't know how I could push
Speaker 1: in the first round. That's the first thing that took me.
Speaker 1: I cannot remember a year where I like, I don't
Speaker 1: think I love any of the prominent edge rusher prospects
Speaker 1: in this entie class, like which I don't remember a
Speaker 1: year where that happened. Like there's usually at least one
Speaker 1: guy that you're kind of juiced about, and I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't see it this year. Yeah, And I'll steal
Speaker 1: the line right from Bucky, like, if you if you're
Speaker 1: not producing in college, I'm terrified about gambling that you're
Speaker 1: going to produce at a higher level. And if he's
Speaker 1: a if he's a high ceiling developmental guy, that's awesome.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say the Cowboys are Super Bowl contenders,
Speaker 1: but this is a ter that can, you know, contend
Speaker 1: to win the NFC East and put you in the
Speaker 1: playoffs if you'd make some good draft picks this year.
Speaker 1: I want safe players, like this team should be drafting
Speaker 1: safe players. That's why, honestly, I feel great about drafting
Speaker 1: Patrick's Ertan because he might not get you super excited,
Speaker 1: but I think he's a safe prospect and I don't
Speaker 1: The last thing I want to do is to spend
Speaker 1: a big pick on a guy who's going to need
Speaker 1: a red shirt year like this is not This ain't
Speaker 1: the year for that for the Dallas Cowboys. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I think, Oh, he played two years in high school.
Speaker 1: He was a big time obviously recruit. He was number
Speaker 1: two in New Jersey when he came out. But you know,
Speaker 1: like when you deal with the recruiting things, a lot
Speaker 1: of it is on potential to see someone his size,
Speaker 1: with his athleticism and all that other stuff that makes
Speaker 1: it I mean, that makes it easy to give those
Speaker 1: guys a high ranking. But I am worried now. James
Speaker 1: Franklin would say, hey, he kept he put consistent pressure
Speaker 1: on the quarterback, and he did all those and he
Speaker 1: was always around the ball, and you know he impacted
Speaker 1: the game in other areas. But Dave, going to your thing,
Speaker 1: Ozzie Knewsom. I used to sit up at the combine,
Speaker 1: you know where those guys just sit up high in
Speaker 1: the perch, and I would sit there and they would
Speaker 1: dispensing knowledge, and they would always say, guys who sacked
Speaker 1: the quarterback in college, they sacked the quarterback in the pros.
Speaker 1: There is something about guys who can get it down
Speaker 1: and if they can do it in multiple seasons, because
Speaker 1: it's not just one year. Wonder if they do it
Speaker 1: in multiple seasons where you can track their production, that
Speaker 1: those are the guys that will do it in the pros.
Speaker 1: And so production matters when it comes to pass rushers,
Speaker 1: all that activity and leaping to all buildings in the
Speaker 1: single bottle? Can I get the quarterback to the ground
Speaker 1: and can you do it over multiple years? If you
Speaker 1: do that, more than likely you can do the same
Speaker 1: thing in the pros. I said this last week right
Speaker 1: as we were shining off. But I always learned something
Speaker 1: from these shows, and that was one thing I learned
Speaker 1: last year Bucky the first show we ever did in
Speaker 1: the hotel room in Mobile, Alabama at the Holiday Inn
Speaker 1: or whatever it was, it was whenever you said, if
Speaker 1: you sack the quarterback in college, there's a good chance
Speaker 1: you could sack him in the pros. And since then,
Speaker 1: I've it's been locked in my brain, and that's what
Speaker 1: I thought whenever I saw a way as well as man,
Speaker 1: that's not there. It's not there. I like everything else,
Speaker 1: everything that Brian was talking about, and I still would
Speaker 1: take him probably in the third that's probably the sweet
Speaker 1: spot for him for me. But man, I can't put
Speaker 1: him any higher than that. If he dad zero sacks
Speaker 1: in a good amount of stabs. That's my biggest thing
Speaker 1: for Brian's going Hayman, because this is like the lazy
Speaker 1: coach scout analysis. Let somebody else develop him. I'm not
Speaker 1: in the process because by the time I get him
Speaker 1: to be a good player, he's going somewhere else as
Speaker 1: a free agent. True, yep, I hate to say it,
Speaker 1: but I want guys that are close to being plug
Speaker 1: in play, especially man. I want to be able to
Speaker 1: put him in the lot up and get everything. I
Speaker 1: don't want to spend a whole lot of time developing
Speaker 1: someone for somebody else. Right, and so, oh wait, maybe
Speaker 1: a good player, but if I'm shopping, I've I'll shop
Speaker 1: in another ale. Like I'm fine, I'll go another alt
Speaker 1: is a great athlete, but I want someone who has
Speaker 1: a Let's go ahead and take our second break. Another
Speaker 1: fantastic twitter on the twenty. Hey, we got to like
Speaker 1: what six questions? That's a blot more than we ever
Speaker 1: have I think up. That works. Well done, everybody. Let's
Speaker 1: pat ourselves on the back. When we come back, we'll
Speaker 1: wrap things up and talk to you about a switch
Speaker 1: on the Draft Show lineups that will be coming next week.
Speaker 1: We'll talk to about it next here on the Draft Show.
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Speaker 1: Is the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show the final
Speaker 1: segment here to Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show has
Speaker 1: always presented by Miller Lyon. We've got about six minutes
Speaker 1: left in show and we will hit the lineup, switch ups,
Speaker 1: the switcheroos that Derek has just rained down upon all
Speaker 1: of us here on the Draft Show, in which we
Speaker 1: will enact starting next week. But first, Dave, I wanted
Speaker 1: to kind of you brought it up in our group message.
Speaker 1: Wanted to get your thoughts on the recent signings. I
Speaker 1: mean a lot of defensive line help coming in off
Speaker 1: the free agency market. Of course, Kean O'Neil, you have
Speaker 1: the couple safeties that we've already talked about that are
Speaker 1: on their way to at least meet with the Cowboys.
Speaker 1: But do you see any of these free agents even
Speaker 1: remotely affecting what the draft plan is for the Cowboys?
Speaker 1: Because last year they shared up the holes could take
Speaker 1: best player available. Haven't seen a cornerback taken yet? Is
Speaker 1: that something that you could look at? Um? Well, they
Speaker 1: I mean they resigned Jordan Lewis, which he's not an
Speaker 1: outside free agent, but I do I think that's worth
Speaker 1: noting just because and I'm not trying to sell anybody
Speaker 1: that this is a good idea. But Jordan Lewis, Anthony Brown,
Speaker 1: and Treyvon Diggs at least gives you a trio of
Speaker 1: guys who have started in NFL games, you know, again,
Speaker 1: played significant time. I said it in the last Yeah,
Speaker 1: I said it in the last segment. I don't think
Speaker 1: they've done anything that would preclude them from making a pick.
Speaker 1: Like you know, these are not crazy investments, and that's
Speaker 1: what the Cowboys love to do. They pay over their
Speaker 1: holes with cheap signings and then they try to get
Speaker 1: the real value in the draft. I do think the
Speaker 1: stuff they've done along the defensive line is really interesting
Speaker 1: because just in terms of bodies, and again, to be fair,
Speaker 1: these are not deals like these guys don't have to
Speaker 1: make the team, you know, haha. Clinton Dicks got cut
Speaker 1: last year. For the amount of money they're spending, there's
Speaker 1: no guarantee that all these guys will be on the roster.
Speaker 1: But when you look at Brent Urban, you add that
Speaker 1: to the duo of Tristan Hill and Neville Gallimore. Antoine
Speaker 1: Woods got his tender, so he's likely back. It makes
Speaker 1: me wonder what they think about this defensive tackle class
Speaker 1: and you know, obviously, when you have ten picks, you
Speaker 1: can use them on a lot of different guys. Maybe
Speaker 1: they draft a guy on Day three. But we've talked
Speaker 1: about how there aren't a lot of crazy, great d
Speaker 1: tackles at the top of this draft. It makes me
Speaker 1: wonder if they spend extra time adding body to that
Speaker 1: to make sure that they don't need to draft one.
Speaker 1: That's kind of the impression that I got. Yeah, talking
Speaker 1: to guys around the league who do pro evaluations, we're
Speaker 1: really high on the Urban signing. Yeah, they love that one.
Speaker 1: That was They feel like the Cowboys hit a home
Speaker 1: run on that one. Watkins not so much work came
Speaker 1: out today though Florida State Pro Day. They have their
Speaker 1: defensive line coach down there working out some of their prospects.
Speaker 1: Maybe Wilson, Yeah, Marvin Whistical will be involved in those
Speaker 1: mixed So keep an eye on that. If you're sending
Speaker 1: coaches out to work guys out, you're generally trying to
Speaker 1: get their opinion, in their idea on if they feel
Speaker 1: like that those guys can play. So yeah, I will
Speaker 1: McClay loves to protect himself, he does. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: going to say, Okay, I'm going to sign a guy
Speaker 1: with the thought of, okay, I could still draft somebody.
Speaker 1: I don't think they're married to any of these guys.
Speaker 1: But again, talking to what I call my gang of
Speaker 1: seven guys around the league that give me information about
Speaker 1: these play they really do like what the Cowboys did
Speaker 1: at defensive tackle. I say with with Urban and then
Speaker 1: Basham as well. They feel like that bash him if
Speaker 1: he gets back to where his weight was when he
Speaker 1: was with when he came out, you know, at two
Speaker 1: sixty five to seventy right around there, that he might
Speaker 1: even be a better player. But they were very complimentary
Speaker 1: of those guys. You know, Dave, I think what you
Speaker 1: want to always be able to do is you want
Speaker 1: to be able to line up in play. If we
Speaker 1: were to play a game today, can we line up
Speaker 1: in play? So when you think about Lewis and Brown
Speaker 1: and Digs, it gives us an opportunity to line up
Speaker 1: in play right now now when it comes to the draft,
Speaker 1: that won't prevent you, as you said, from drafting another player,
Speaker 1: but at a minimum, you have a starting lineup where
Speaker 1: you feel like you can be competitive. And so that's
Speaker 1: why some of these things are they're the only signing
Speaker 1: that I think might impact it. The Keyanunil thing is
Speaker 1: interesting to me because moving him to week side linebacker,
Speaker 1: I'm wondering what does that mean? Does that mean and
Speaker 1: base package he's the guy that is displaced over the
Speaker 1: slot receiver kind of being a big nickel player, and
Speaker 1: doesn't mean when they do go to their quote unquote
Speaker 1: nickel package, who comes out the game? Is that Jaylen
Speaker 1: Smith off the field? Now is Keyan O'Neil LV A
Speaker 1: nickel corner and the rest of the crew. So I'm
Speaker 1: curious to see that because we're seeing more teams us
Speaker 1: that will linebacker as a hybrid player, and to me,
Speaker 1: they're seeing a lot without saying anything by saying, oh,
Speaker 1: we're moving Keyan O'Neil two weeks out of linebacker. Oh
Speaker 1: you mean hybrid? You mean he's the big nickels safety.
Speaker 1: So now what does that mean when we put, yeah,
Speaker 1: the real nickel package on the field. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, Bucky. I think they take Jalen Smith
Speaker 1: off the field. I think Kean O'Neil is gonna play
Speaker 1: strong safety, you know, and you talk to people around
Speaker 1: the league about him, though they will say really good
Speaker 1: run defender physical, and you want him down there. Don't
Speaker 1: want him in coverage though they even covered tight ends
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. It's a liability for him. Playing
Speaker 1: in space could be a little bit of a liability
Speaker 1: from what I heard. So, Yeah, I think this is
Speaker 1: going to be vanderash Neil playing down, bringing Nickel on
Speaker 1: and then and then try and play it that way.
Speaker 1: But I think he can early downs. I think in
Speaker 1: early downs they're gonna keep Jalen Smith on the field. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's so he's the dimebacker. Keyan O'Neil is the dimebacker.
Speaker 1: If he's out here in bases whatever, But exactly when
Speaker 1: they go die, he's the dimebacker. He's coming in there
Speaker 1: and he's he's near a line of scrimmage. Because they
Speaker 1: want a more athletic defense. I think that's the thing
Speaker 1: that showed up last year. More speed is needed on
Speaker 1: to be faster and more athletic to be able to
Speaker 1: compete and tell change of direction was a problem for
Speaker 1: this defense last year. Yeah, we know they're not here.
Speaker 1: They let his salary guarantee. I don't think that's a
Speaker 1: huge surprise, but I also you know, when I hear
Speaker 1: that Neil's gonna play a linebacker. I think it's a
Speaker 1: little bit simplistic, like, yeah, Jalen Smith is still gonna
Speaker 1: play a ton of snaps. But yeah, even if even
Speaker 1: if Keyan O'Neil's specialty is in coverage, you need better
Speaker 1: athleticism when teams go small and fast, and I think
Speaker 1: that's what that is. Now we are going over time,
Speaker 1: but I did want to hit this really quickly. We
Speaker 1: will have different lineups as of next week. Now this
Speaker 1: is still proposed, so this can still change. But Tuesday's
Speaker 1: show next week on The Draft Show, Brian brought us
Speaker 1: along with the great Dane Brugler and Jeff Cavanaugh are
Speaker 1: the three that you get. Yeah, you only do five
Speaker 1: hours of radio with Jeff a day, Brian, you ready
Speaker 1: to do another one on The Draft Show next week.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll tell you what, Man, that that crew
Speaker 1: is gonna beat me up, Buddy, Bucky gets after me. Man,
Speaker 1: crew is gonna he's gonna wear me out. The second
Speaker 1: crew next Thursday will be Bucky, Dave and Kat. Sorry
Speaker 1: to cut you off there, Bucky, Oh no, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't be Brian up and all. I like it.
Speaker 1: It's a love fest, like I've been going hard at
Speaker 1: Hillman for less. I was gonna say, but now, but
Speaker 1: then I'm like, I can't even see I'm temails you
Speaker 1: because you guys are go Tigers all the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right, that's right, that's okay, that's not playing basketball anymore.
Speaker 1: But that's all right because about that. Yeah, yeah, goodness, gracious,
Speaker 1: neither's North Texas either, Kat Come on now, it's yeah,
Speaker 1: whatever season, it's draft season. Now, it's hey, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: miss you guys. I'm gonna miss I'm gonna miss you guys.
Speaker 1: Though you guys do a great job on that Thursday show.
Speaker 1: I'll be I'll be watching. I know you guys. Will
Speaker 1: you guys, We'll keep in touch, don't worry, please do.
Speaker 1: We're all in a group text already, so it'll it'll
Speaker 1: stay the same. But that's gonna do it for us
Speaker 1: here on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. I
Speaker 1: hope you learned something here over the last hour. I
Speaker 1: certainly did. But want to thank Chris Beam in the back,
Speaker 1: the great Bucky Brooks Bryant brought us in David Helman
Speaker 1: um Kyle Yelman saying so long, we'll see you Thursday
Speaker 1: on the Draft Show. This has been a production of
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club
Speaker 1: h