Speaker 1: Previously on Happy Face.
Speaker 2: My name is Lauren Bride Pacheco and I've worked with
Speaker 2: Melissa Jasperson Moore for about four years.
Speaker 3: My father is Keith Hunter Jesperson. He's known as the
Speaker 3: Happy Face serial killer.
Speaker 4: My mom had just said that her and my dad
Speaker 4: were separating, which I didn't believe.
Speaker 3: I wanted to keep like you guys as baby pictures,
Speaker 3: and he chucked out all up. There was just this
Speaker 3: thing that people said in the family. They would say, Oh,
Speaker 3: that's just Keith, that's just how Keith is, and it
Speaker 3: seemed to be acceptable.
Speaker 2: One of the few people that Keith opened up to
Speaker 2: about his childhood was psychologist Al Carlisle.
Speaker 4: Any learning problems, No, not really for you intelligence.
Speaker 5: I'm very intelligent, but I just didn't adapt myself to it.
Speaker 3: I got pregnant my freshman year, so right after I
Speaker 3: found out is when the news hit about my dad.
Speaker 3: I was dating a guy named Nick. It was a
Speaker 3: very dysfunctional relationship, so I felt like the only option
Speaker 3: for me to break out of this was to not
Speaker 3: have the baby. A couple months later, I got a
Speaker 3: letter from my dad. He said, you're a killer, just
Speaker 3: like me. He deserved to be in prison with me.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the vines in the vines, well son, you don't
Speaker 6: know shine o shi oh nice.
Speaker 3: My dad always said that he was not like his
Speaker 3: dad and the way he disciplined me and my siblings.
Speaker 3: There was a time when I was stayed out too
Speaker 3: late and didn't come home and I worried my family,
Speaker 3: and my dad said, you know, you went past your curfew.
Speaker 3: So he made me bend over my dad and he
Speaker 3: pulled my pants down so my bum was bare, and
Speaker 3: he took off his leather belt and he started like
Speaker 3: whipping it, you know, like slapping it, so it made
Speaker 3: a slapping noise, and he kept threatening that he was
Speaker 3: going to whip me with it or spank me with it,
Speaker 3: and so I was sobbing and pleading with him not
Speaker 3: to hit me, because like the sound alone of the
Speaker 3: leather slapping was terrifying, and just being so vulnerable with
Speaker 3: your tish in the air, like I knew it was
Speaker 3: going to hurt really bad, and he didn't. He just
Speaker 3: kept toying with the idea.
Speaker 4: That he was going to hit me.
Speaker 2: How old were you.
Speaker 3: It was at the farmhouse of six, about six years old,
Speaker 3: and he made sure that there was always the threat
Speaker 3: of being spanked, Like he would threatened to spank us,
Speaker 3: and you just needed a threaten and you'd whip up
Speaker 3: real fast. I mean, because just his size and how
Speaker 3: he made those sounds was terrifying.
Speaker 2: He must have known the fear.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he must have.
Speaker 2: For all of Melissa's happy childhood memories regarding her father,
Speaker 2: darker one surfaced as our journey progressed. Although he never
Speaker 2: physically hit them, Keith still managed to instill a sense
Speaker 2: of fear in Melissa and her siblings. As the saying goes,
Speaker 2: not all scars are visible. I'm Lauren Bray Pacheco. This
Speaker 2: is happy face.
Speaker 3: My dad would be home on the weekends, Saturday morning
Speaker 3: and Sunday morning, Like any weekend morning, we always want
Speaker 3: to wake up our dad. So we would rush the
Speaker 3: bed with my mom and dad in it, and we
Speaker 3: would jump on him and tackle us. And it just
Speaker 3: became a whole hour of tackling and tickling while he
Speaker 3: was trying to get out of bed. So we would
Speaker 3: get more and more aggressive, like with our tactics, Like
Speaker 3: I would get a further running start and run and
Speaker 3: then jump on the bed. And then I would jump
Speaker 3: on the bed and then really try to pound on
Speaker 3: my dad like because he could handle it, because you
Speaker 3: could see that he could. Oh, just a young kid.
Speaker 3: I was like five to seven or so, like really young.
Speaker 3: I just would go and jump on him and he
Speaker 3: could take him. My brother would get aggressive. I remember
Speaker 3: him like elbowing him, and then my dad like pinning
Speaker 3: him down and wrestling him. And with me, he pinned
Speaker 3: me down and started tickling me, but it was to
Speaker 3: the point of like I was gonna pay my pants,
Speaker 3: and I kept screaming I was gonna pay my pants.
Speaker 3: They kept tickling me, but it turned from like it
Speaker 3: was funny, like let you go if you're like no,
Speaker 3: really serious had to go, you know, you would let
Speaker 3: your child go, But all of a sudden, it was
Speaker 3: now like I control you, and it turned into like
Speaker 3: now I'm sobbing because I'm it's becoming painful to be tickled.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 2: So you'd go from laughing to crying, yeah, and then
Speaker 2: would he stop.
Speaker 3: He would eventually let me go, but it was when
Speaker 3: he wanted to let me go.
Speaker 4: That just was his.
Speaker 3: Way with us. Anything I was afraid of or didn't like,
Speaker 3: he made sure to push it and push me beyond
Speaker 3: my comfort, just to let me know he had control.
Speaker 3: It may sound very harmless or little to somebody else,
Speaker 3: but it was. It was a message. He was giving
Speaker 3: me a message that he controls me. I mean, there's
Speaker 3: so many is the little tiny lessons of that. It's
Speaker 3: like touching the electric fence. So we have around the
Speaker 3: perferle of the farm, we had an electric fence and
Speaker 3: I asked him, Dad, is the fence on. He's like,
Speaker 3: we'll touch it and find out. I touched it. And
Speaker 3: when you touch it, you can't let go. Your hand
Speaker 3: will let go, Like my hand I remember was on
Speaker 3: it and it was like vibrating and I couldn't release
Speaker 3: my hand because it gripped it. And he was laughing.
Speaker 3: It was all to tell me that he could do
Speaker 3: what he wants and that you were his yep.
Speaker 5: And I had to watch my feelings around my kids.
Speaker 5: I had to watch because if they did something wrong
Speaker 5: and made me want to feel like punishing them because
Speaker 5: I know what my dad would do to me. I
Speaker 5: feel like I had to really watch myself that I
Speaker 5: didn't allow myself. See here, I'm a murder and I've
Speaker 5: been out here and I've been doing this. I said,
Speaker 5: I've got to watch my emotions around people I love.
Speaker 5: There is, like you say, maybe not a controller, because
Speaker 5: I'm not. There are things that made setting me off,
Speaker 5: and I had to watch that. It was too easily done,
Speaker 5: as times where I've gotten with people friends of mine
Speaker 5: and I just sit there and said, I can't stay here.
Speaker 5: You don't see it, but I do, and I'm not
Speaker 5: going to stick around because I will do something about it.
Speaker 2: Eventually. After her father's capture, enter chaotic relationship with Nick,
Speaker 2: Melissa tried to find a sense of security and safety
Speaker 2: and love, just a normal life. But something was always missing.
Speaker 2: Why was that so important to you that you create
Speaker 2: this stable home life.
Speaker 3: Well, it actually goes back to the breakup with Nick.
Speaker 3: When I broke up with Nick, it was a relationship
Speaker 3: that I didn't want to repeat. So I made a
Speaker 3: list of all the things that weren't working for me,
Speaker 3: that were harmful. And I took a look at what
Speaker 3: my parents' relationship was and my mom's new relationship was,
Speaker 3: and I realized I didn't want to repeat that. In
Speaker 3: order to do that, I had to make a list
Speaker 3: of what wouldn't work for me. So I made this
Speaker 3: checklist and I put it in my diary. And there's
Speaker 3: this moment when I met Sam, and as he was talking,
Speaker 3: I was checking off that list in my head of
Speaker 3: all the things that I needed to ensure that I
Speaker 3: didn't follow in my mom's footsteps.
Speaker 2: Give me an example, what was on that list.
Speaker 3: Number One, he had to be college educated. I didn't
Speaker 3: want to live in poverty and I didn't want to
Speaker 3: be in a relationship that if I was going to
Speaker 3: have children with someone that it was unstable. Two travel
Speaker 3: the world, had a worldview. I wanted to see the world.
Speaker 3: I had this.
Speaker 2: Stream of traveling.
Speaker 3: Three that he was transparent and honest and I could
Speaker 3: count on them and know that everything that he says
Speaker 3: would be truthful. Those are the top ones. And I
Speaker 3: first met him. The first thing he said is he's
Speaker 3: in college and he's getting his degree in international relations.
Speaker 3: And then he already lived in Portugal for two years.
Speaker 3: So he, to me, was the best man that I
Speaker 3: had ever met in Spokane. On paper, he was everything
Speaker 3: that I needed.
Speaker 2: The hymn Melissa refers to is Sam, her estranged husband
Speaker 2: and father of her two children. We spoke to Sam
Speaker 2: about how the relationship began and evolved, so tell me
Speaker 2: how you and Melissa first met. How old were you
Speaker 2: and where was it.
Speaker 1: Oh, it was a while ago.
Speaker 7: I was twenty five or twenty six right in there,
Speaker 7: and Melissa was like twenty one, and it was pretty unique.
Speaker 7: I grew up Mormon, and so every Friday there would
Speaker 7: always be an activity at dance for singles. I remember
Speaker 7: I had just broken up with a girl and I
Speaker 7: didn't want to go out. I didn't want to go
Speaker 7: hang out with anybody, and I had two roommates and
Speaker 7: they wanted me out of the house. They're like, time
Speaker 7: fore to go do something. We're going to go to
Speaker 7: the dance. It was in West Plains in Spokane, Washington.
Speaker 7: It's a big gymnasium full of people. Knew most everybody
Speaker 7: there because it's all of my peers, the people I
Speaker 7: hanged out with, and I was kind of reluctant to
Speaker 7: even be there, but I also was enjoying the music.
Speaker 7: So I went and sat up on the stage and
Speaker 7: I was just watching everybody dance, and I was looking
Speaker 7: around the room trying to figure out if I was going.
Speaker 1: To date again. And then.
Speaker 7: I remember it very clearly. Side doors of the gym
Speaker 7: opened up and beautiful blonde walked in. Everything was dark.
Speaker 7: I had never seen her before. I was very, very interested,
Speaker 7: so at that moment I decided to probably be open
Speaker 7: to dating again. I was sitting on the stage trying
Speaker 7: to be a loner, which isn't my normal personality actually,
Speaker 7: and I would just watch her mingle with some people.
Speaker 7: And then after a little while she approached me. She
Speaker 7: came up to me on the stage and she sat
Speaker 7: next to me. I was right next to the speakers,
Speaker 7: so you couldn't really hear each other. So she started
Speaker 7: trying to talk to me, and as she tried, I
Speaker 7: moved closer to her so that we could hear each other,
Speaker 7: and she started talking in my ear, and I was smitten.
Speaker 7: I asked her for her phone number, and I asked
Speaker 7: for a chance to be able to catch up with her,
Speaker 7: and she left.
Speaker 1: I left. I think we went to Sherry's as a group.
Speaker 7: Usually after dances, as a collective Mormon group, you always
Speaker 7: go like to Denny's or Sherry's or something like that.
Speaker 7: And I remember the whole night, I just kind of
Speaker 7: stop thinking about her, and I didn't call her for
Speaker 7: like two or three days.
Speaker 1: Was that calculated? No, I was just turned nervous.
Speaker 4: It's a glow group.
Speaker 8: Break, no, mm hmmm.
Speaker 2: For Melissa, Sam's greatest appeal was that he represented everything
Speaker 2: her father did not.
Speaker 4: Were your first impressions of Sam physically, Oh, he had
Speaker 4: a goateee that was kind of long, and and he
Speaker 4: was wearing a leather jacket not normally like stylistically and
Speaker 4: maybe as girls like we all can relate to this,
Speaker 4: you're like, Oh, that's changeable, the closer changeable.
Speaker 2: It's really the antithesis of your father physically though too,
Speaker 2: and in terms of emotionally, your dad six foot six,
Speaker 2: Sam was probably closer to five foot six.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's five'.
Speaker 2: Six he instantly did he feel, Safe, uh, yeah because.
Speaker 3: He wasn't pursuing. Me, well it felt like he wasn't
Speaker 3: pursuing me at, all LIKE i had to be the.
Speaker 3: Pursuer so that felt incredibly.
Speaker 4: Safe.
Speaker 3: Yeah he put my phone number in his flip phone
Speaker 3: and then he never called, me never Did AND i
Speaker 3: worked At Victoria's secret and then one day he just
Speaker 3: shows up at my.
Speaker 1: Job so she worked on.
Speaker 7: The makeup side Of Victoria's, secret and SO i showed
Speaker 7: up to the makeup side AND i asked for help
Speaker 7: to like for a perfume or, something but really the
Speaker 7: goal was to get to Meet melissa and.
Speaker 1: SHE i don't know if she asked me or IF
Speaker 1: i asked. HER i was, like, hey can, OH i asked?
Speaker 3: HER i remember now he, says you, know, like, hey
Speaker 3: you KNOW i was talking To, lisha your, friend and
Speaker 3: she said that you could use a good guy in your,
Speaker 3: life and do you want to go?
Speaker 4: OUT i said, sure and SO i gave them a.
Speaker 7: Day we set the date, up and then like in
Speaker 7: a few days when it was supposed to, HAPPEN i
Speaker 7: was trying to like make sure it was going to,
Speaker 7: happen and she told me that she kind of go,
Speaker 7: out like one of her friends asked her to like
Speaker 7: watch their.
Speaker 4: Kid SO i told him, like, oh you, KNOW i,
Speaker 4: Forgot i'm.
Speaker 3: Babysitting and then he THOUGHT i, was you, know making
Speaker 3: up an excuse to turn him down and not to
Speaker 3: go out with. Him AND i, said, well actually you.
Speaker 4: Want to just come with.
Speaker 1: Me she, goes but you're welcome to come watch the
Speaker 1: kid with, me AND i obviously said.
Speaker 8: Yes.
Speaker 3: AND i just thought it was a good. Guy and
Speaker 3: we went out To denny's where everybody hung out, like
Speaker 3: if you didn't want your day to, end you just
Speaker 3: go To denny's Or. Sherry's AND i remember we were
Speaker 3: talking about THE i don't know WHY i came, up
Speaker 3: but one of my favorite fables was The sirens, fable
Speaker 3: and so we were talking about.
Speaker 8: That The.
Speaker 4: Sirens, YES i don't know WHY i like that, fable
Speaker 4: maybe because the female house the.
Speaker 2: Power it's, subtle but even on their first, Date melissa's
Speaker 2: tiny exertion of control has echoes of her.
Speaker 7: Father we were on our date At sherry's AND i
Speaker 7: remember she did something that no other girl was capable of.
Speaker 7: DOING i really detest ranch. Dressing there was no WAY
Speaker 7: i was ever going to eat ranch. Dressing and she
Speaker 7: was eating like a piece of, chicken and she asked
Speaker 7: me to eat, it AND i told her, NO i,
Speaker 7: GO i don't like ranch.
Speaker 1: Dressing and THEN i ate ranch.
Speaker 7: Dressing AND i, remember like no girl had ever had
Speaker 7: that kind of power over, me AND i found it
Speaker 7: really attractive.
Speaker 1: That she didn't take no for.
Speaker 2: Me did you guys get? Serious really?
Speaker 7: Quickly we, did so instead of taking her, HOME i
Speaker 7: took her back to my. Place and in The mormon,
Speaker 7: community that's not a. Normal next STEP i took her
Speaker 7: back to my, place and while we were there and
Speaker 7: we didn't do, anything we made, out but still that was.
Speaker 1: The fastest relationship That i've ever, had like to move that.
Speaker 1: Quickly on.
Speaker 2: Paper sam was Everything melissa would want in a, partner
Speaker 2: but her fear of vulnerability always overshadowed her desire for.
Speaker 3: Connection this is somebody who physically doesn't look like my,
Speaker 3: dad doesn't act like my father in any shape or,
Speaker 3: form so he felt safe in all of those. CATEGORIES
Speaker 3: i craved to have everything THAT i was missing growing,
Speaker 3: up BUT i emotionally couldn't connect to.
Speaker 2: It what was your fear during that?
Speaker 3: Time my biggest fear was that everybody would find out
Speaker 3: about my past and that it would take this life
Speaker 3: THAT i curated and make it crumble, down that it
Speaker 3: would fall, apart that EVERYTHING i worked for and survived
Speaker 3: for would fall, apart and that people would find out
Speaker 3: That i'm just like my father AND i would lose.
Speaker 3: Everything you, Know it's interesting to go back and meet
Speaker 3: with people THAT i dated in the past and then
Speaker 3: this to be a common thread THAT i was emotionally
Speaker 3: just in the relationship that they constantly had to work
Speaker 3: to find out WHAT i was. Feeling, YES i was
Speaker 3: a very emotionally removed. Person that scared, me but that
Speaker 3: was a vulnerability that was trained out of. Me IF
Speaker 3: i was vulnerable with my, dad he exploited. It IF
Speaker 3: i was vulnerable with these, boyfriends what would. Happen it
Speaker 3: scared me to think THAT i wasn't capable of, love
Speaker 3: and that's a precursor to, psychopathy THAT i could be
Speaker 3: a psychopath IF i couldn't have empathy or. Love AND
Speaker 3: i honestly didn't feel WHEN i left a lot of these,
Speaker 3: RELATIONSHIPS i didn't feel sad to leave. THEM i was
Speaker 3: relieved to leave these. Relationships so it caused me to
Speaker 3: further wonder IF i was just like my.
Speaker 2: Dad In, Sam melissa saw the stability she desperately, craved
Speaker 2: and his religious upbringing provided stark contrast to her father's.
Speaker 2: Crimes but in, Reality sam was very much questioning his
Speaker 2: faith and rebelling against. It melissa became part of that.
Speaker 2: Rebellion what did you know about her? Family do you? Remember?
Speaker 7: YEAH i remember when she first told. ME i think
Speaker 7: we were at a mom's place where you've been. Now
Speaker 7: they used to have like a trampoline in the front
Speaker 7: of the. YARD i think we were on the trampoline
Speaker 7: and we were like looking up with the. Stars that's
Speaker 7: When melissa told me who her dad, was and once
Speaker 7: AGAIN i was so. Smitten to be, HONEST i didn't really,
Speaker 7: care AND i don't THINK i understood the, magnitude like
Speaker 7: the gravity of what her father. Was AND i didn't
Speaker 7: see it as a reflection of who she. Was LIKE
Speaker 7: i would hate for somebody to ever think that my
Speaker 7: parents a reflection of. ME i, mean obviously we, are but,
Speaker 7: LIKE i don't want to be judged for.
Speaker 2: That when was the first Time sam said you aren't there?
Speaker 2: Emotionally when was the first time that he?
Speaker 3: Doubted it was always the elephant in the, room the
Speaker 3: lack of. CONNECTION i, thought if we don't acknowledge, it
Speaker 3: then it doesn't, exist and therefore everything's.
Speaker 2: Normal don't bring it.
Speaker 3: Up and so there wasn't anything verbally spoken about it
Speaker 3: until three years. Ago we had a conversation about where
Speaker 3: things were at in our marriage and that was his.
Speaker 2: Complaint and what did he?
Speaker 3: Say he, said you never look in my eyes and
Speaker 3: you never kissed, me and it really bothered.
Speaker 6: Him and.
Speaker 3: It's, true it's, true and it has nothing to do with.
Speaker 3: HIM i don't blame. Him it was nothing to do
Speaker 3: with him at. All it was everything to do with.
Speaker 8: Me in the freaking shish in for a, SACCO i
Speaker 8: did no you dog.
Speaker 2: See in what must have been one of the most
Speaker 2: surreal moments in their, marriage one, Day melissa is SAD
Speaker 2: i did to Visit.
Speaker 7: Keith melissa AND i were at home one, day AND
Speaker 7: i think she had either just received a letter or
Speaker 7: maybe had come across the, letter and she asked me
Speaker 7: if it was weird that she hadn't seen her, dad
Speaker 7: AND i was, LIKE i don't. KNOW i don't know
Speaker 7: if it's, Weird, army he is in prison for. Murder so,
Speaker 7: NO i don't think it's that. Weird she, goes how
Speaker 7: would you feel IF i was to go see him?
Speaker 7: Again AND i was, like whether you want to or,
Speaker 7: Not i'm here for, you and, UH i, Said we'll
Speaker 7: just think about, it and she. Did she thought about
Speaker 7: it for a little, while and then she, GOES i
Speaker 7: Think i'm gonna do, that and SO i took some time.
Speaker 7: Off we told her when we were going on a
Speaker 7: trip To, oregon and we didn't tell anyone what we
Speaker 7: were going to go, do and we ended up getting
Speaker 7: to the prison with our, kids and so we ended
Speaker 7: up like following the guards through this like may of
Speaker 7: like sales like where they would open up a gate
Speaker 7: and you open up another gate and you're kind of
Speaker 7: like following them. Through and then they brought us into
Speaker 7: this like lobby which had like couches laid, out AND
Speaker 7: i was trying to figure out how it was, working
Speaker 7: AND i was waiting for them to come get, us
Speaker 7: AND i was trying to figure, out So, melissa when
Speaker 7: you go see your, Dad i'll just stay here with the.
Speaker 7: Kids and THEN i started looking around the room and
Speaker 7: there was guards at the doors with, guns and all
Speaker 7: the men in the room were wearing denim AND i
Speaker 7: wasn't wearing. DUNIM i was, like, man that must be
Speaker 7: the style And oregon or, something so, NAIVE i, am.
Speaker 9: Oh.
Speaker 7: And THEN i started noticing that they're like pretty tied it.
Speaker 7: Up and it was when we were in the room
Speaker 7: THEN i realized that we were going to Meet melissa's
Speaker 7: dad in. PERSON i had no, Idea and like after
Speaker 7: a little, While melissa's dad came in and he's, massive
Speaker 7: like he is such a big. MAN i, MEAN i
Speaker 7: knew he was, big BUT i don't THINK i knew
Speaker 7: how big he. WAS i REMEMBER i stood, Up melissa stood,
Speaker 7: up and the kids were with, us AND i don't
Speaker 7: remember if he Hugged, melissa BUT i remember his interaction with.
Speaker 7: Me he shook my hand and he, said thank you
Speaker 7: for taking such good care of my. Daughter that was
Speaker 7: the very first thing he, said AND i was, like,
Speaker 7: OH i might be able to handle this. Guy so
Speaker 7: he sat down next to. US i think he asked
Speaker 7: us if we wanted to have the kids go play
Speaker 7: over in the play area or, not and we're, like,
Speaker 7: no we'll keep them. Here AND i wasn't very cognizant
Speaker 7: of even what my kids were enduring or even What
Speaker 7: melissa was, feeling because my anxiety level was really. HIGH
Speaker 7: i didn't know IF i had to move it like
Speaker 7: into a protective mode or like into a kindness.
Speaker 1: MODE i was really. DISTRAUGHT i didn't know what to.
Speaker 7: Do was it? Crazy it was because LIKE i wasn't
Speaker 7: expecting it to look like, That and he was actually
Speaker 7: pretty genuine and pretty. Kind the banter back and forth
Speaker 7: Between melissa and her dad seemed kind of. Normal he
Speaker 7: asked if we wanted to go. OUTSIDE i guess there's
Speaker 7: an outside area that you could go sit. In and
Speaker 7: we just had a dialogue back and forth that was.
Speaker 2: Weird what's going through your mind at any? Point are
Speaker 2: you looking at this face and hearing this voice and
Speaker 2: hearing the small talk and thinking this man murdered? People?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 7: ABSOLUTELY i was able to sit next to a, horrible
Speaker 7: horrible person that could killate, women AND i wasn't able
Speaker 7: to even distinguish that that's what he. Was AND i
Speaker 7: used to consider myself pretty good at reading, people like
Speaker 7: assessing who they, are and at that very, MOMENT i
Speaker 7: realized that most it'd be easy for all of us
Speaker 7: to be.
Speaker 1: Prey and that blew my.
Speaker 7: Mind that was going through my head the entire time
Speaker 7: while he's talking To melissa as like he murdered a people.
Speaker 10: FROM i the creation of a serial killer By Jack.
Speaker 10: Olson my size intimidated the guards and they chained me
Speaker 10: up WHENEVER i was. MOVED i explained THAT i wasn't
Speaker 10: going to harm, anyone but they'd heard that story. Before
Speaker 10: it didn't matter how nice and POLITE i. ACTED i
Speaker 10: was assumed to be a cold blooded killer who would
Speaker 10: murder anyone he could get his hands. On this took
Speaker 10: some time to get used.
Speaker 2: To melissa And sam had gone to visit her father in,
Speaker 2: prison not knowing what to, expect and they left with
Speaker 2: a very surreal. Souvenir explain to me the picture BECAUSE
Speaker 2: i look at, That i'm, like that is the craziest
Speaker 2: family Portrait i've ever.
Speaker 7: Seen, Yeah so when, done there was an option to
Speaker 7: get a picture, taken and so we. Did we got
Speaker 7: a picture With melissa's, dad and to be honest with,
Speaker 7: you google the. Internet that will probably be the first
Speaker 7: thing that pops up is a picture Of melissa's, dad my,
Speaker 7: daughter my, son and, me and you could see the
Speaker 7: size gap of me versus, him and he's just a massive.
Speaker 2: Man it must have been a blessing that the kids
Speaker 2: were too.
Speaker 7: Small to ask oh, completely you, KNOW I melissa AND
Speaker 7: i were sensitive for a long time because people, asses
Speaker 7: how could you ever take your children around such a horrible.
Speaker 7: Person AND i think people don't understand what it was.
Speaker 7: Like the whole room was full of, children like kids
Speaker 7: were playing with their dads because their dads are coming
Speaker 7: to visit their. Children and SO i think what was
Speaker 7: stranger is the fact That melissa's, dad who murdered eight
Speaker 7: people would be in general, population which is normal. CRIMINALS
Speaker 7: i think that's the real question is how could somebody
Speaker 7: do such horrific things and be amidst people that maybe
Speaker 7: like smoked weed and they were treated.
Speaker 2: Equally, Eventually melissa's inability to connect With sam and to
Speaker 2: truly reciprocate his love took its.
Speaker 3: Toll there was a comfort as. Roommates we got along,
Speaker 3: great and we were good. Friends we still are good,
Speaker 3: friends so it was easy to stay longer and longer
Speaker 3: in this relationship because we're such good.
Speaker 1: Friends BUT i.
Speaker 3: Knew when he brought up three years ago that he
Speaker 3: wanted someone to be passionately in love with, him that
Speaker 3: he would find, it probably with someone.
Speaker 2: Else you guys just weren't. Happy, YEAH i don't think.
Speaker 3: We if he was, honest he would say he wasn't.
Speaker 3: Happy he wouldn't say that he wasn't happy with. Me
Speaker 3: he wasn't happy with living without those things that he
Speaker 3: wanted in his.
Speaker 2: Life sam said. Neither he simply acknowledged a Burden keith's
Speaker 2: crimes placed On melissa and how much he'd seen her
Speaker 2: struggle to atone for, them but he never blamed HER.
Speaker 7: I think it has Compelled melissa to have to be
Speaker 7: harder on herself than the average. Person and we're all
Speaker 7: pretty hard on ourselves as it, Is, like take whatever
Speaker 7: you are as a person and magnify. THAT i can
Speaker 7: only imagine she's had to deal with people saying that
Speaker 7: she was collecting blood money by sharing her, story that
Speaker 7: we were, irrational bad parents by taking our kids to
Speaker 7: visit a serial killer in a. PRISON i, mean you
Speaker 7: put it in, words, yeah absolutely could build an argument to,
Speaker 7: that but when you put it into actuality of what really,
Speaker 7: happened it's the furthest thing from the. Truth our children
Speaker 7: have always come first From, melissa AND i think it's
Speaker 7: compelled her to have to over exaggerate her feelings for other,
Speaker 7: people for, herself for our, kids always kind of on
Speaker 7: the defensive to prove that she's not like her.
Speaker 1: Father the burden she carries must be.
Speaker 2: Immense and what's your take On jess person as opposed
Speaker 2: to your take On, Melissa, like if you had to
Speaker 2: be brutally honest about your take on.
Speaker 7: Him, so IF i was to be brutally, HONEST i
Speaker 7: would say that he definitely corrupted his family and he
Speaker 7: made it so that they were in pain and in,
Speaker 7: trauma and that pain and trauma is carried over into
Speaker 7: her future, relationships and it's made it so she's had
Speaker 7: to overcompensate to define who she, is to separate herself
Speaker 7: from who he, is and it's put her in a
Speaker 7: really difficult. Situation and to say that there wasn't an
Speaker 7: impact would not be.
Speaker 2: Honest What's melissa's biggest fear?
Speaker 7: ABANDONED i THINK i think she's afraid that she'll be
Speaker 7: alone and that she would end up being a lot
Speaker 7: like her, dad that what everyone has said is. TRUE
Speaker 7: i think that's probably her biggest. Fear but anything that's, changing,
Speaker 7: LIKE i think she's becoming way more self. Aware i've
Speaker 7: seen how strong she, was AND i really just thought
Speaker 7: she could change the, world AND i thought by her
Speaker 7: sharing her, story other people could have.
Speaker 9: Hope WHEN i was eighteen, NINETEEN i was, naive still
Speaker 9: naives to the world on crime and EVERYTHING i.
Speaker 5: WAS i was basically a good person that wouldn't never
Speaker 5: push anything past.
Speaker 1: ANYTHING i would never do.
Speaker 7: Anything when did you stop?
Speaker 1: Hearing? Well my, divorce.
Speaker 11: The different problems with my girlfriend and trucking in the
Speaker 11: jobs and everything kind of ESCALATING i can't trust nobody around,
Speaker 11: me AND i only trust, myself and you, know.
Speaker 5: The cruelty of life just basically caused me to, think, well, hell.
Speaker 2: What would you say if you could confront jessperson on
Speaker 2: what he's? Done, okay Send melissa to his. Family if
Speaker 2: he's listening to, this what do you hope he?
Speaker 1: HEARS i would tell him that the way he treated
Speaker 1: his daughter.
Speaker 7: Complicated my, marriage Complicated melissa's, life but didn't make it
Speaker 7: so it didn't get, better and he has no control of.
Speaker 7: Anything who he is is really, insignificant and because of
Speaker 7: the experiences that we've all gone through because of, him
Speaker 7: we're actually stronger and.
Speaker 1: Better and it's okay that.
Speaker 7: He's not remorseful for what he's, done because everyone else's
Speaker 7: remorse makes up the. Difference and if he goes, away
Speaker 7: he goes away alone.
Speaker 1: And without.
Speaker 3: Everything hurts about building a life with someone and then
Speaker 3: deciding to. SEPARATE i really discredited hearing from other people
Speaker 3: when they said they went through a. Divorce it just
Speaker 3: seemed almost so casual BECAUSE i was so removed from their.
Speaker 3: Lives but the pain is actually more intense THAN i
Speaker 3: ever thought was. Possible it's Mourning, yeah it's absolutely. Grieving there's.
Speaker 3: Anger there are the five stages of grief for, sure
Speaker 3: And i've gone through all of them And i've read
Speaker 3: every BOOK i could, read and they say it takes
Speaker 3: like two years for you to feel normal. Again and
Speaker 3: it's probably very similar to someone who lost someone that
Speaker 3: they loved to death in some, ways just because you're
Speaker 3: used to the little, things the day to day things
Speaker 3: like calling after a meeting or when you get home
Speaker 3: having the, Dishes i'm all ready for, you or you
Speaker 3: know those you can lean on that person and then
Speaker 3: when you when you divorce and, separate then now you
Speaker 3: have to create a new, life a new.
Speaker 7: Normalcy she always talks about how she's leaned in on,
Speaker 7: me But i've always leaned in on, her like she
Speaker 7: went through such trauma and so much, pain and she
Speaker 7: found her voice even when it's not easy to. Do
Speaker 7: she still continuously puts herself in situations that most people
Speaker 7: want to.
Speaker 1: Do she's so, brave and watching her be, brave As
Speaker 1: i'll be be. BRAVE i like.
Speaker 5: KIDS i like my, kids BUT i wasn't really a family.
Speaker 5: MAN i really didn't want to be the family.
Speaker 1: MAN i didn't want THE i didn't want to end up, like, well.
Speaker 5: Put my kids through WHAT i went, through and HERE
Speaker 5: i am putting, through putting them through worse and WHAT
Speaker 5: i went, through you know a lot of things because
Speaker 5: you're they have to be raised with the idea that dad's.
Speaker 8: A, killer.
Speaker 3: Murderer my fear still to this, day is That i'm
Speaker 3: incapable of loving in the way that people expect me
Speaker 3: to love. Them you, Know sam swears THAT i probably
Speaker 3: could love him the way he wants to be, loved
Speaker 3: BUT i don't. BELIEVE i just don't want to lie to.
Speaker 3: PEOPLE i don't want to feel like a fraud of
Speaker 3: living too many years feeling like a, fraud AND i
Speaker 3: feel like the best policies just to be up front
Speaker 3: and let people decide if this works for them or.
Speaker 3: Not and so With, Sam i've been really transparent with
Speaker 3: him to let him know that this is WHERE i,
Speaker 3: stand this.
Speaker 2: Is WHAT i, am and my level of being able to.
Speaker 2: Give is it about, control? Though is your fear of
Speaker 2: love about losing, control about letting, go about having something
Speaker 2: have power over?
Speaker 3: You, Absolutely because if you fall in, love you give
Speaker 3: up your, loverage you give Up you can be blindsided
Speaker 3: in a hot, moment AND i don't want to ever
Speaker 3: be that, vulnerable to be, blindsided AND i just don't
Speaker 3: want to risk that.
Speaker 2: Again on the Next Happy, Face melissa faces her greatest
Speaker 2: fears and her father's.
Speaker 3: Demons but it seems now that you want the world
Speaker 3: to know who you, are Not melissa more but the
Speaker 3: daughter of The Happy Face.
Speaker 2: Killer i've created a monster in.
Speaker 3: You this is WHY i don't lead these.
Speaker 1: Letters Happy face is a production Of How Stuff.
Speaker 10: Works executive producers Are Melissa, Moore Lauren, Bright Pacheco Mangesha,
Speaker 10: ticketur And Will. Pearson supervising producer is No. Brown music
Speaker 10: By Claire, Campbell Paige campbell And hope for A Golden.
Speaker 10: Summer story editor Is Matt. Riddle audio editing By Chandler
Speaker 10: mays And Noel. Brown assistant editor Is Taylor. Chicogne special
Speaker 10: thanks To Phil, stanford the publishers of The Oregonian, newspaper
Speaker 10: and The carlisle.
Speaker 4: Family