WEBVTT - Normalcy 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:03.720 Previously on Happy Face. 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:06.840 My name is Lauren Bride Pacheco and I've worked with 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:09.320 Melissa Jasperson Moore for about four years. 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.600 My father is Keith Hunter Jesperson. He's known as the 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:15.040 Happy Face serial killer. 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:18.400 My mom had just said that her and my dad 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:20.200 were separating, which I didn't believe. 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.720 I wanted to keep like you guys as baby pictures, 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:26.920 and he chucked out all up. There was just this 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:29.960 thing that people said in the family. They would say, Oh, 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.600 that's just Keith, that's just how Keith is, and it 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:34.640 seemed to be acceptable. 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:38.879 One of the few people that Keith opened up to 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:42.440 about his childhood was psychologist Al Carlisle. 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:46.000 Any learning problems, No, not really for you intelligence. 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.760 I'm very intelligent, but I just didn't adapt myself to it. 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:52.360 I got pregnant my freshman year, so right after I 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:55.000 found out is when the news hit about my dad. 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.880 I was dating a guy named Nick. It was a 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.680 very dysfunctional relationship, so I felt like the only option 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:04.640 for me to break out of this was to not 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.200 have the baby. A couple months later, I got a 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.440 letter from my dad. He said, you're a killer, just 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:12.760 like me. He deserved to be in prison with me. 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:20.600 Yeah, the vines in the vines, well son, you don't 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:29.000 know shine o shi oh nice. 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.920 My dad always said that he was not like his 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:45.480 dad and the way he disciplined me and my siblings. 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.400 There was a time when I was stayed out too 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.720 late and didn't come home and I worried my family, 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:56.080 and my dad said, you know, you went past your curfew. 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.920 So he made me bend over my dad and he 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:04.160 pulled my pants down so my bum was bare, and 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.960 he took off his leather belt and he started like 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:09.720 whipping it, you know, like slapping it, so it made 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:15.280 a slapping noise, and he kept threatening that he was 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.400 going to whip me with it or spank me with it, 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:21.520 and so I was sobbing and pleading with him not 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:25.240 to hit me, because like the sound alone of the 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.880 leather slapping was terrifying, and just being so vulnerable with 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:30.840 your tish in the air, like I knew it was 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:35.040 going to hurt really bad, and he didn't. He just 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:36.760 kept toying with the idea. 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:37.240 That he was going to hit me. 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:40.480 How old were you. 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:43.919 It was at the farmhouse of six, about six years old, 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:50.359 and he made sure that there was always the threat 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.760 of being spanked, Like he would threatened to spank us, 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.040 and you just needed a threaten and you'd whip up 0:02:56.080 --> 0:03:00.480 real fast. I mean, because just his size and how 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.600 he made those sounds was terrifying. 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:05.680 He must have known the fear. 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:07.800 Yeah, he must have. 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:18.440 For all of Melissa's happy childhood memories regarding her father, 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:23.959 darker one surfaced as our journey progressed. Although he never 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.640 physically hit them, Keith still managed to instill a sense 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:31.959 of fear in Melissa and her siblings. As the saying goes, 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:39.040 not all scars are visible. I'm Lauren Bray Pacheco. This 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:40.440 is happy face. 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.320 My dad would be home on the weekends, Saturday morning 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.720 and Sunday morning, Like any weekend morning, we always want 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:01.960 to wake up our dad. So we would rush the 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.000 bed with my mom and dad in it, and we 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.560 would jump on him and tackle us. And it just 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.920 became a whole hour of tackling and tickling while he 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.040 was trying to get out of bed. So we would 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.400 get more and more aggressive, like with our tactics, Like 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.240 I would get a further running start and run and 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:21.040 then jump on the bed. And then I would jump 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:22.800 on the bed and then really try to pound on 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:26.000 my dad like because he could handle it, because you 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:29.080 could see that he could. Oh, just a young kid. 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:34.279 I was like five to seven or so, like really young. 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.039 I just would go and jump on him and he 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.239 could take him. My brother would get aggressive. I remember 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.560 him like elbowing him, and then my dad like pinning 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:45.560 him down and wrestling him. And with me, he pinned 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:47.960 me down and started tickling me, but it was to 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.560 the point of like I was gonna pay my pants, 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.040 and I kept screaming I was gonna pay my pants. 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:58.480 They kept tickling me, but it turned from like it 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:01.200 was funny, like let you go if you're like no, 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:03.320 really serious had to go, you know, you would let 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.760 your child go, But all of a sudden, it was 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:10.160 now like I control you, and it turned into like 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:15.440 now I'm sobbing because I'm it's becoming painful to be tickled. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:15.480 You know. 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.280 So you'd go from laughing to crying, yeah, and then 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:19.920 would he stop. 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:22.960 He would eventually let me go, but it was when 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:23.840 he wanted to let me go. 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:25.760 That just was his. 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:29.080 Way with us. Anything I was afraid of or didn't like, 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:33.280 he made sure to push it and push me beyond 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.760 my comfort, just to let me know he had control. 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:41.239 It may sound very harmless or little to somebody else, 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.320 but it was. It was a message. He was giving 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.200 me a message that he controls me. I mean, there's 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.000 so many is the little tiny lessons of that. It's 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.400 like touching the electric fence. So we have around the 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.719 perferle of the farm, we had an electric fence and 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.120 I asked him, Dad, is the fence on. He's like, 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.919 we'll touch it and find out. I touched it. And 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:04.160 when you touch it, you can't let go. Your hand 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.640 will let go, Like my hand I remember was on 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:10.240 it and it was like vibrating and I couldn't release 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.480 my hand because it gripped it. And he was laughing. 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:18.680 It was all to tell me that he could do 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:23.360 what he wants and that you were his yep. 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.279 And I had to watch my feelings around my kids. 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.760 I had to watch because if they did something wrong 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:35.200 and made me want to feel like punishing them because 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:36.719 I know what my dad would do to me. I 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.800 feel like I had to really watch myself that I 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:43.160 didn't allow myself. See here, I'm a murder and I've 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:44.920 been out here and I've been doing this. I said, 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:47.760 I've got to watch my emotions around people I love. 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.119 There is, like you say, maybe not a controller, because 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.799 I'm not. There are things that made setting me off, 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.200 and I had to watch that. It was too easily done, 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:00.520 as times where I've gotten with people friends of mine 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:02.400 and I just sit there and said, I can't stay here. 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:04.760 You don't see it, but I do, and I'm not 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:08.320 going to stick around because I will do something about it. 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:20.640 Eventually. After her father's capture, enter chaotic relationship with Nick, 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.680 Melissa tried to find a sense of security and safety 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:30.800 and love, just a normal life. But something was always missing. 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:34.960 Why was that so important to you that you create 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:36.560 this stable home life. 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:41.600 Well, it actually goes back to the breakup with Nick. 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.960 When I broke up with Nick, it was a relationship 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.600 that I didn't want to repeat. So I made a 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:51.520 list of all the things that weren't working for me, 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:56.120 that were harmful. And I took a look at what 0:07:56.240 --> 0:08:00.240 my parents' relationship was and my mom's new relationship was, 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:02.160 and I realized I didn't want to repeat that. In 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:03.520 order to do that, I had to make a list 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.640 of what wouldn't work for me. So I made this 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:11.600 checklist and I put it in my diary. And there's 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.920 this moment when I met Sam, and as he was talking, 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.920 I was checking off that list in my head of 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.200 all the things that I needed to ensure that I 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.520 didn't follow in my mom's footsteps. 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:26.679 Give me an example, what was on that list. 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.920 Number One, he had to be college educated. I didn't 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.360 want to live in poverty and I didn't want to 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:36.520 be in a relationship that if I was going to 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:41.360 have children with someone that it was unstable. Two travel 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.560 the world, had a worldview. I wanted to see the world. 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:46.400 I had this. 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:47.679 Stream of traveling. 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:53.200 Three that he was transparent and honest and I could 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.520 count on them and know that everything that he says 0:08:56.520 --> 0:09:00.199 would be truthful. Those are the top ones. And I 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.600 first met him. The first thing he said is he's 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:06.640 in college and he's getting his degree in international relations. 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.800 And then he already lived in Portugal for two years. 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:14.280 So he, to me, was the best man that I 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:18.400 had ever met in Spokane. On paper, he was everything 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:19.760 that I needed. 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:25.680 The hymn Melissa refers to is Sam, her estranged husband 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:29.320 and father of her two children. We spoke to Sam 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:34.320 about how the relationship began and evolved, so tell me 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.320 how you and Melissa first met. How old were you 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:39.200 and where was it. 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.400 Oh, it was a while ago. 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.160 I was twenty five or twenty six right in there, 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:49.080 and Melissa was like twenty one, and it was pretty unique. 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.120 I grew up Mormon, and so every Friday there would 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.959 always be an activity at dance for singles. I remember 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:00.320 I had just broken up with a girl and I 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:01.720 didn't want to go out. I didn't want to go 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.600 hang out with anybody, and I had two roommates and 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.120 they wanted me out of the house. They're like, time 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:08.720 fore to go do something. We're going to go to 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.960 the dance. It was in West Plains in Spokane, Washington. 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.000 It's a big gymnasium full of people. Knew most everybody 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:17.960 there because it's all of my peers, the people I 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:22.480 hanged out with, and I was kind of reluctant to 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:24.880 even be there, but I also was enjoying the music. 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:27.560 So I went and sat up on the stage and 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.640 I was just watching everybody dance, and I was looking 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.280 around the room trying to figure out if I was going. 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:34.720 To date again. And then. 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:43.000 I remember it very clearly. Side doors of the gym 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:49.920 opened up and beautiful blonde walked in. Everything was dark. 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:55.160 I had never seen her before. I was very, very interested, 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:58.560 so at that moment I decided to probably be open 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:03.120 to dating again. I was sitting on the stage trying 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:05.920 to be a loner, which isn't my normal personality actually, 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.320 and I would just watch her mingle with some people. 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:15.280 And then after a little while she approached me. She 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.360 came up to me on the stage and she sat 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.359 next to me. I was right next to the speakers, 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.720 so you couldn't really hear each other. So she started 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:27.040 trying to talk to me, and as she tried, I 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:29.920 moved closer to her so that we could hear each other, 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.240 and she started talking in my ear, and I was smitten. 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.400 I asked her for her phone number, and I asked 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:40.920 for a chance to be able to catch up with her, 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:43.680 and she left. 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.679 I left. I think we went to Sherry's as a group. 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.439 Usually after dances, as a collective Mormon group, you always 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.800 go like to Denny's or Sherry's or something like that. 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:55.079 And I remember the whole night, I just kind of 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:59.400 stop thinking about her, and I didn't call her for 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:01.240 like two or three days. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:06.000 Was that calculated? No, I was just turned nervous. 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.960 It's a glow group. 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:41.760 Break, no, mm hmmm. 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:48.760 For Melissa, Sam's greatest appeal was that he represented everything 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:50.160 her father did not. 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:57.240 Were your first impressions of Sam physically, Oh, he had 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.480 a goateee that was kind of long, and and he 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:06.679 was wearing a leather jacket not normally like stylistically and 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.040 maybe as girls like we all can relate to this, 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.400 you're like, Oh, that's changeable, the closer changeable. 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.559 It's really the antithesis of your father physically though too, 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:22.480 and in terms of emotionally, your dad six foot six, 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.600 Sam was probably closer to five foot six. 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:27.480 Yeah, he's five'. 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:33.359 Six he instantly did he feel, Safe, uh, yeah because. 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:35.600 He wasn't pursuing. Me, well it felt like he wasn't 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:37.199 pursuing me at, all LIKE i had to be the. 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:38.840 Pursuer so that felt incredibly. 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:39.240 Safe. 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:41.679 Yeah he put my phone number in his flip phone 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:46.480 and then he never called, me never Did AND i 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:51.480 worked At Victoria's secret and then one day he just 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:52.199 shows up at my. 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:57.240 Job so she worked on. 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:00.200 The makeup side Of Victoria's, secret and SO i showed 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.320 up to the makeup side AND i asked for help 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.319 to like for a perfume or, something but really the 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.520 goal was to get to Meet melissa and. 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:10.960 SHE i don't know if she asked me or IF 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.400 i asked. HER i was, like, hey can, OH i asked? 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.160 HER i remember now he, says you, know, like, hey 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.320 you KNOW i was talking To, lisha your, friend and 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.000 she said that you could use a good guy in your, 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.000 life and do you want to go? 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:27.920 OUT i said, sure and SO i gave them a. 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.160 Day we set the date, up and then like in 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.440 a few days when it was supposed to, HAPPEN i 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.040 was trying to like make sure it was going to, 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.440 happen and she told me that she kind of go, 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.200 out like one of her friends asked her to like 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:40.760 watch their. 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.840 Kid SO i told him, like, oh you, KNOW i, 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:44.400 Forgot i'm. 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.760 Babysitting and then he THOUGHT i, was you, know making 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:48.760 up an excuse to turn him down and not to 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:50.360 go out with. Him AND i, said, well actually you. 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:51.000 Want to just come with. 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.040 Me she, goes but you're welcome to come watch the 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.880 kid with, me AND i obviously said. 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:56.080 Yes. 0:14:58.400 --> 0:14:59.600 AND i just thought it was a good. Guy and 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.520 we went out To denny's where everybody hung out, like 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:04.360 if you didn't want your day to, end you just 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:08.360 go To denny's Or. Sherry's AND i remember we were 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.240 talking about THE i don't know WHY i came, up 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:14.320 but one of my favorite fables was The sirens, fable 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:16.240 and so we were talking about. 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:17.160 That The. 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:21.160 Sirens, YES i don't know WHY i like that, fable 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:23.680 maybe because the female house the. 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:30.080 Power it's, subtle but even on their first, Date melissa's 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.400 tiny exertion of control has echoes of her. 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:37.640 Father we were on our date At sherry's AND i 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.360 remember she did something that no other girl was capable of. 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:45.920 DOING i really detest ranch. Dressing there was no WAY 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.320 i was ever going to eat ranch. Dressing and she 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.280 was eating like a piece of, chicken and she asked 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.680 me to eat, it AND i told her, NO i, 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:54.520 GO i don't like ranch. 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.160 Dressing and THEN i ate ranch. 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.840 Dressing AND i, remember like no girl had ever had 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:03.400 that kind of power over, me AND i found it 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:04.840 really attractive. 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:06.360 That she didn't take no for. 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.200 Me did you guys get? Serious really? 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.600 Quickly we, did so instead of taking her, HOME i 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.080 took her back to my. Place and in The mormon, 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.920 community that's not a. Normal next STEP i took her 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.080 back to my, place and while we were there and 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:25.640 we didn't do, anything we made, out but still that was. 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.480 The fastest relationship That i've ever, had like to move that. 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:30.800 Quickly on. 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.560 Paper sam was Everything melissa would want in a, partner 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:39.400 but her fear of vulnerability always overshadowed her desire for. 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:44.280 Connection this is somebody who physically doesn't look like my, 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.920 dad doesn't act like my father in any shape or, 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.040 form so he felt safe in all of those. CATEGORIES 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:56.640 i craved to have everything THAT i was missing growing, 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.200 up BUT i emotionally couldn't connect to. 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.360 It what was your fear during that? 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.920 Time my biggest fear was that everybody would find out 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.760 about my past and that it would take this life 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.520 THAT i curated and make it crumble, down that it 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:19.240 would fall, apart that EVERYTHING i worked for and survived 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.680 for would fall, apart and that people would find out 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:26.160 That i'm just like my father AND i would lose. 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:30.840 Everything you, Know it's interesting to go back and meet 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:32.919 with people THAT i dated in the past and then 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.119 this to be a common thread THAT i was emotionally 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.440 just in the relationship that they constantly had to work 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:42.639 to find out WHAT i was. Feeling, YES i was 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.080 a very emotionally removed. Person that scared, me but that 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:50.560 was a vulnerability that was trained out of. Me IF 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.199 i was vulnerable with my, dad he exploited. It IF 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.720 i was vulnerable with these, boyfriends what would. Happen it 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.240 scared me to think THAT i wasn't capable of, love 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:04.320 and that's a precursor to, psychopathy THAT i could be 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:09.159 a psychopath IF i couldn't have empathy or. Love AND 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.280 i honestly didn't feel WHEN i left a lot of these, 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.560 RELATIONSHIPS i didn't feel sad to leave. THEM i was 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.920 relieved to leave these. Relationships so it caused me to 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:21.480 further wonder IF i was just like my. 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:31.440 Dad In, Sam melissa saw the stability she desperately, craved 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:36.160 and his religious upbringing provided stark contrast to her father's. 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:40.920 Crimes but in, Reality sam was very much questioning his 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:46.600 faith and rebelling against. It melissa became part of that. 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:52.240 Rebellion what did you know about her? Family do you? Remember? 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.320 YEAH i remember when she first told. ME i think 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:57.159 we were at a mom's place where you've been. Now 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.440 they used to have like a trampoline in the front 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.280 of the. YARD i think we were on the trampoline 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.600 and we were like looking up with the. Stars that's 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:10.560 When melissa told me who her dad, was and once 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.120 AGAIN i was so. Smitten to be, HONEST i didn't really, 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:16.280 care AND i don't THINK i understood the, magnitude like 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.600 the gravity of what her father. Was AND i didn't 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.280 see it as a reflection of who she. Was LIKE 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.639 i would hate for somebody to ever think that my 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.680 parents a reflection of. ME i, mean obviously we, are but, 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:29.520 LIKE i don't want to be judged for. 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:35.280 That when was the first Time sam said you aren't there? 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.520 Emotionally when was the first time that he? 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.280 Doubted it was always the elephant in the, room the 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:47.200 lack of. CONNECTION i, thought if we don't acknowledge, it 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.760 then it doesn't, exist and therefore everything's. 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:52.119 Normal don't bring it. 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.560 Up and so there wasn't anything verbally spoken about it 0:19:55.760 --> 0:20:01.000 until three years. Ago we had a conversation about where 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.480 things were at in our marriage and that was his. 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:05.680 Complaint and what did he? 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:11.119 Say he, said you never look in my eyes and 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:15.000 you never kissed, me and it really bothered. 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:16.720 Him and. 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:22.639 It's, true it's, true and it has nothing to do with. 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:24.720 HIM i don't blame. Him it was nothing to do 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:27.480 with him at. All it was everything to do with. 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:41.600 Me in the freaking shish in for a, SACCO i 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:46.560 did no you dog. 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:56.560 See in what must have been one of the most 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.960 surreal moments in their, marriage one, Day melissa is SAD 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:01.280 i did to Visit. 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.800 Keith melissa AND i were at home one, day AND 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.639 i think she had either just received a letter or 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:11.960 maybe had come across the, letter and she asked me 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:14.840 if it was weird that she hadn't seen her, dad 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:18.600 AND i was, LIKE i don't. KNOW i don't know 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:22.159 if it's, Weird, army he is in prison for. Murder so, 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:25.239 NO i don't think it's that. Weird she, goes how 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:27.239 would you feel IF i was to go see him? 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:30.040 Again AND i was, like whether you want to or, 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.880 Not i'm here for, you and, UH i, Said we'll 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:35.680 just think about, it and she. Did she thought about 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:37.600 it for a little, while and then she, GOES i 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:41.640 Think i'm gonna do, that and SO i took some time. 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:43.720 Off we told her when we were going on a 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.879 trip To, oregon and we didn't tell anyone what we 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:51.200 were going to go, do and we ended up getting 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:56.600 to the prison with our, kids and so we ended 0:21:56.680 --> 0:22:00.359 up like following the guards through this like may of 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:02.960 like sales like where they would open up a gate 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:04.800 and you open up another gate and you're kind of 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.480 like following them. Through and then they brought us into 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:11.200 this like lobby which had like couches laid, out AND 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:13.679 i was trying to figure out how it was, working 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:16.439 AND i was waiting for them to come get, us 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:18.840 AND i was trying to figure, out So, melissa when 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:20.240 you go see your, Dad i'll just stay here with the. 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:25.520 Kids and THEN i started looking around the room and 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:30.480 there was guards at the doors with, guns and all 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:34.080 the men in the room were wearing denim AND i 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:37.879 wasn't wearing. DUNIM i was, like, man that must be 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:42.120 the style And oregon or, something so, NAIVE i, am. 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:42.480 Oh. 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.520 And THEN i started noticing that they're like pretty tied it. 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:52.680 Up and it was when we were in the room 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:55.000 THEN i realized that we were going to Meet melissa's 0:22:55.080 --> 0:23:00.880 dad in. PERSON i had no, Idea and like after 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:05.120 a little, While melissa's dad came in and he's, massive 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:07.680 like he is such a big. MAN i, MEAN i 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:09.640 knew he was, big BUT i don't THINK i knew 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:13.240 how big he. WAS i REMEMBER i stood, Up melissa stood, 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:16.000 up and the kids were with, us AND i don't 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:19.879 remember if he Hugged, melissa BUT i remember his interaction with. 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:23.720