Speaker 1: Welcome to Jesshill with Doctor J, a production of the
Speaker 1: Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back to another
Speaker 1: episode of Just Hell with Doctor J. And I am
Speaker 1: your host, Doctor J. Barnett, and I'm excited about today's guests.
Speaker 1: I have my great friend, you know her as missus Cookie,
Speaker 1: but I know her as Tea and all of the
Speaker 1: many characters that we have been blessed to see her play.
Speaker 1: But today we want to have a conversation about healing,
Speaker 1: and as y'all know, when you come into the Healing community,
Speaker 1: we're talking about things that are impactful for our journey,
Speaker 1: that can impact our life. And I'm so happy to
Speaker 1: have my friend tagip Henson joining me with the Healing
Speaker 1: Community day. Welcome, Thank you listen. I am excited about
Speaker 1: this episode and this episode I think that's going to
Speaker 1: be transformed because May is mental health money and we
Speaker 1: have been working together for a number of years under
Speaker 1: the bors Henson Foundation in free therapy to black men
Speaker 1: and black women. And I just think this conversation is
Speaker 1: not had enough, even though we're talking about it more.
Speaker 1: But before I start into the conversation, I always ask
Speaker 1: every guest, I don't ask them how they're doing. I
Speaker 1: ask them, how are you feeling.
Speaker 2: I'm feeling blessed today, really happy, and I'm excited about
Speaker 2: today because you know, of course we're having our symposium
Speaker 2: and we're helping the kids. And I actually used to
Speaker 2: go to oxen Hille High School really, so I feel
Speaker 2: really good about giving back to them in this way.
Speaker 2: Before we start, can I just say I'm proud of you,
Speaker 2: black man.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: I'm just really really proud of you.
Speaker 1: I am thank you, thank you, And listen, I want
Speaker 1: to say this to everybody. Y'all only know me because
Speaker 1: of the riot, well like for real, and so I
Speaker 1: have to say I'm I'm I'm humble because it was
Speaker 1: a black woman. It was you I think came across
Speaker 1: one in my videos and then your team reached out
Speaker 1: to me. This is what twenty twenty. This was twenty twenty. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and we did the Breakfast Club virtual at that time,
Speaker 1: and I just want to say thank you for seeing
Speaker 1: me and for providing the opportunity for the world to
Speaker 1: know my voice and not just my story, but the
Speaker 1: voice and the impact that I would have on black men.
Speaker 1: It was you, and this is why we need.
Speaker 2: Black women and we need y'all.
Speaker 1: So we need each other. We need each other, and
Speaker 1: I wish, you know, we could settle these these these
Speaker 1: wars that we have and online because we're so needed
Speaker 1: in just building each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, Yeah sure, So you.
Speaker 1: Know you feel blessed. You look amazing. I don't know
Speaker 1: what you're drinking and what you're doing, but you look amazing.
Speaker 1: Like I know, you take trips to Bali and body
Speaker 1: is your place to really get away in the check
Speaker 1: out what has that been for your healing journey.
Speaker 2: It's a place. It's a great place to recenter because
Speaker 2: it's not a place about vanity. You know a lot
Speaker 2: of times when you go overseas, it's about shopping and
Speaker 2: this and that, and that's not where you go for that.
Speaker 2: It's literally eat, pray, love. The people are beautiful. They
Speaker 2: pray over everything, they pray over you. It's a lot
Speaker 2: of yoga. I mean, the food is from the earth,
Speaker 2: everything is clean eating. I just feel so nurtured. We
Speaker 2: call it mother Boy because the land is so nurturing.
Speaker 2: But that's just that has become my place to go
Speaker 2: when I need to recenter, Yeah, get away from it all,
Speaker 2: because it's very far.
Speaker 1: Now when you go, how long are you gone?
Speaker 2: The first time I stayed for a month. The second
Speaker 2: time I went for like two and a half weeks. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not a quick trip because it takes about twenty
Speaker 2: four hours to get there.
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow. And when you go there and you resenter yourself,
Speaker 1: how does your spirit feels to step away from America?
Speaker 2: Let me just tell you this. The first time I went,
Speaker 2: I landed at some weird hour in the morning. They
Speaker 2: had a herbal bath waiting for me. I took it.
Speaker 2: It was like four o'clock in the morning. By the
Speaker 2: time I unpacked and got in a bed, I slept
Speaker 2: for twelve hours. Can I tell you the last time
Speaker 2: I slept through like twelve straight hours? I since probably
Speaker 2: went my twenties when I was going to the clubs
Speaker 2: and stuff.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, twelve straight hours. And I never could sleep that
Speaker 2: peacefully in the States.
Speaker 1: Wow. Do you feel because of the chaos and the
Speaker 1: noise is why many of us can't rest?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? I literally remember after my month stay, it felt
Speaker 2: like it went so fast, and I remember I was
Speaker 2: crying packing coming back. I did not want to come back.
Speaker 2: As soon as I got back to America, it was
Speaker 2: a mass shooting in Chinatown, and La I.
Speaker 1: Was like, and I remember texting you when you come back,
Speaker 1: and you was just saying I did not want to
Speaker 1: come back, and not want to come back, did not.
Speaker 2: Want to come I heard a doctor say, if you
Speaker 2: ever find yourself diagnosed with cancer and you want to survive,
Speaker 2: the first thing you got to do is leave America.
Speaker 1: What.
Speaker 2: Yes, he said, that's the first thing you have to do.
Speaker 2: He didn't go into the medicines, he didn't go into
Speaker 2: holistic he said, the first thing you must do is
Speaker 2: leave America.
Speaker 1: Wow. You know, I'm writing this book and it's titled
Speaker 1: I actually just got agreed to the terms. This is
Speaker 1: my first major book deal. And I'm excited about this
Speaker 1: this because the book is about pursuing pace. The subtitle
Speaker 1: is in a world that's not slowing down. And as
Speaker 1: you were speaking about the doctor saying you got to
Speaker 1: leave here, we're in such a hurry and there's such
Speaker 1: stress that we have day to day. And I'm saying
Speaker 1: to myself, how do we ever find pace? How do
Speaker 1: you create pace in your busy world?
Speaker 2: I where I live is very peaceful. My house sits
Speaker 2: on the hill away from the noise. I don't hear
Speaker 2: any street traffic. It's my sanctuary. And I had a
Speaker 2: friend who's very clairvoyant say that he saw like Native
Speaker 2: Americans around the property in spirit protecting it. So I
Speaker 2: would have friends flying from out of town and they
Speaker 2: would come in all stress and they come to my
Speaker 2: house and they would be like, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: just feel so peaceful. And when I was living in Chicago,
Speaker 2: I would, you know, working on that show could be
Speaker 2: kind of crazy. When I was on Empire, I would
Speaker 2: go to laid back to my house to regather myself.
Speaker 2: So that's literally my sanctuary is home. I have two dogs.
Speaker 2: I just got a new puppy. Lord, why did I
Speaker 2: do that? Yes, I have Frenchies, two Frenchies, and they're
Speaker 2: my joy. You know, simple things, nothing you know, theything'
Speaker 2: about going to a spa or any of that. I
Speaker 2: work out a lot, which for me is more is
Speaker 2: more about my mental than this the aesthetics, you know,
Speaker 2: because it releases those good endorphins, you know, so simple,
Speaker 2: keeping everything really simple, you know, I have my playroom,
Speaker 2: which is my salon. When I was a little girl,
Speaker 2: we couldn't afford nothing, and so I always promised myself
Speaker 2: when I got older, I would I would make a
Speaker 2: room where I could play, and I would buy all
Speaker 2: the things that I couldn't afford when I was a kid.
Speaker 2: And it's my salon and I have my little dog
Speaker 2: heads that I go in there and I work. It's
Speaker 2: just where I gotta want to tell all my business.
Speaker 2: But yes, my I mean I could be the world
Speaker 2: could be burning up and I'd be in my salon
Speaker 2: having fun with my doll heads.
Speaker 1: Like I like that because it's almost like you get
Speaker 1: to connect back to the little girl.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I reached out to Tyler Perry one time. I said,
Speaker 2: while the world is burning up, I'm in here watching
Speaker 2: my Dea movies and I turned the camera around and
Speaker 2: show He said, Wow, Toaji, that's you protected letting that
Speaker 2: taking care of that little TJ little girl.
Speaker 1: And I was like, absolutely, Oh God, this is this
Speaker 1: is so rich because I'm sitting here thinking about, you know,
Speaker 1: childhood wounds and childhood traumas and all those different things.
Speaker 1: And I don't think we realize as we're aging that
Speaker 1: we're either doing one or two things. We're either running
Speaker 1: from the little boy or little girl, or we're trying
Speaker 1: to replace or give the little boy a little girl
Speaker 1: what they didn't have at that particular time. And as
Speaker 1: you were talking about sitting there and playing with the
Speaker 1: doll heads, does that bring a level of peace to
Speaker 1: the little girl inside of you?
Speaker 2: I forget. I don't my office be trying to reach
Speaker 2: me and the phone will be buzzing, and I get
Speaker 2: annoyed because I don't want to deal with that, and
Speaker 2: then I'll be like hello, They like, you gotta come
Speaker 2: out of that room. You have to answer these questions.
Speaker 2: You gotta sign these documents, and they know when they
Speaker 2: can't find me, they know that's where I am. You know,
Speaker 2: it just brings me so much peace and joy. And
Speaker 2: that's where I was during the pandemic, like I literally
Speaker 2: stayed in my salon.
Speaker 1: Is that how you got through the pandemic.
Speaker 2: That's how I got through it.
Speaker 1: So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a
Speaker 1: part of us also reconnecting to our childhood. It's some
Speaker 1: sort you.
Speaker 2: Said, I look how youthful I look because I never
Speaker 2: let that little girl inside of me die. I go
Speaker 2: outside and run outside with the dogs. I still play
Speaker 2: like a kid. I laugh. You know, I love jokes.
Speaker 2: I love funny, I love laughing. I laugh at myself.
Speaker 2: I don't take myself too seriously. That's the stuff that
Speaker 2: keeps you young and stops you from being so hard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I was reading, I was doing something about
Speaker 1: black men and aging, and this new data said the
Speaker 1: average life expectancy for black men is sixty one point five,
Speaker 1: ten years less of white males, which is seventy two.
Speaker 1: And we're not. You know, we always hear a black
Speaker 1: don't crack, right, but internally we're cracking. And when you're
Speaker 1: talking about aging, what has been one of the ways
Speaker 1: that you realize that it's the secret to remaining youthful.
Speaker 1: As we're aging and as we are evolving. What things
Speaker 1: are you doing? I know you're working out. I know
Speaker 1: you go to Bali to retreat. What other things have
Speaker 1: you discovered?
Speaker 2: Going to bed at seven?
Speaker 1: I love it. Listen when I tell you, on Friday nights,
Speaker 1: I am so excited to go to bed, like o'clock
Speaker 1: on Friday.
Speaker 2: That's every night. And so my mother clowned me one
Speaker 2: time because I caught FaceTime and she's like, you were
Speaker 2: in bed already it was seven o'clock, and I was like, uh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, this is my favorite time of the day.
Speaker 2: I be dancing to the bed man in that something.
Speaker 1: And I remember when we was kid, you hated it,
Speaker 1: hate it.
Speaker 2: Hate. Some nights, I'm in bed by six thirty because
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm done with my day. Like I'm done
Speaker 2: answering questions. I'm done answering questions. I'm done, you know,
Speaker 2: with the you know emails. I'm just I'm ready to
Speaker 2: go to bed. And my dogs are they're so used
Speaker 2: to seven. They eat at seven and they go right
Speaker 2: to their crates because they know Mama finished shut it down.
Speaker 1: Because I was. I was my mom. She goes to
Speaker 1: bed at like six thirty or seven, and she said, baby,
Speaker 1: the day is over. It's over.
Speaker 2: It's a bride. What else you want from me?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: El?
Speaker 1: And I'm laughing because you know, my mom heard her husband,
Speaker 1: and you know, she was like, he'll be in there
Speaker 1: and going back to the childhood thing. She so he
Speaker 1: likes doing puzzles and he likes science projects, so he
Speaker 1: like he goes and buys these science projects. And she's like, baby,
Speaker 1: I'm been in to bed. I said, what mister Charlie doing.
Speaker 1: Oh baby, Charlie there playing with this little tip. She said,
Speaker 1: I've gone to bed because I don't think we realized
Speaker 1: that we are sleeping, but we don't rest. We're not resting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what, I cut out the alcohol too,
Speaker 2: you know, not that I was a heavy drinker, but
Speaker 2: I just can't recover. I can't recovery even if I
Speaker 2: have wine. And next day I'm like, I just and
Speaker 2: it's just like, what's the point, you know? So I
Speaker 2: enjoyed my mock tails, but I noticed since I stopped drinking,
Speaker 2: I have lucid dreams. I can't I can't remember the
Speaker 2: last time used to dream like this. And I wake
Speaker 2: up the next day and I remember my dreams like
Speaker 2: I'll get up in the middle of night, go to
Speaker 2: the bathroom, go back to sleep, and continue the dream,
Speaker 2: the same dream.
Speaker 1: And I've often heard doctors talk about how alcohol, you know,
Speaker 1: we don't think about it, even just with wine, but
Speaker 1: just how it can be one of the most deadliest
Speaker 1: and not just from my physical perspective, but cognitively. The
Speaker 1: brain doesn't function the same.
Speaker 2: It just does not. It doesn't.
Speaker 1: So for you, what is a good time now when
Speaker 1: you go out, you don't you havening mocktail? Is that
Speaker 1: enough for you?
Speaker 2: That's enough for me. But see, now we live in
Speaker 2: a society where if you're not drinking, something's wrong. Girl,
Speaker 2: why are you not drinking? So to remedy that, I
Speaker 2: go straight to the bar and I get a celica water,
Speaker 2: put a line in it. Bam. So nobody's asking me questions.
Speaker 2: But I found out that I can really enjoy myself
Speaker 2: sober like i've because you know why, I remember what
Speaker 2: I did the night before when I was drinking, and
Speaker 2: people be like, girl, remember when you said up like
Speaker 2: I said that I did that? Like I don't. I
Speaker 2: want to know. I want to know what I did,
Speaker 2: like you know. Then as you're aging, I'm like, does
Speaker 2: that mean I'm getting Alzheimer's? You know that's the that's
Speaker 2: for fear, you know. So you know, once I proved
Speaker 2: to myself that I could really still go out and
Speaker 2: really enjoy. In fact, I think I had more fun
Speaker 2: because I remember it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're present.
Speaker 2: Very present. I have not clocked out. But the people,
Speaker 2: the people that are inebriated be talking to me, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, you think they really think? They make it sense?
Speaker 1: And you feel like especially.
Speaker 2: But I don't judge, you know exactly, I don't judge.
Speaker 2: I just you know, I'm like dag that used to
Speaker 2: be me.
Speaker 1: Now, let me ask you this. When you were drinking,
Speaker 1: do you feel like it was part of just kind
Speaker 1: of escaping social Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and it was the thing to do. Like it's
Speaker 2: like you going out and drinking is hand in hand,
Speaker 2: like even going to dinner and have a grow. First
Speaker 2: thing you do is the first thing they offer you.
Speaker 2: Would you like for cocktails? Here's the drink menu, you know,
Speaker 2: and I found the entries. I'm gonna tell you when
Speaker 2: I started thinking about the sobriety was when I went
Speaker 2: to the Paris Olympics. There was no alcohol at any
Speaker 2: of the games, at any of the gymnasiums. No alcohol. Well,
Speaker 2: and I found that people were present. There were no
Speaker 2: drunk drunken fights because you fighting, you know, you rooting
Speaker 2: for your country and this one rooting for you getting
Speaker 2: into these arguments. I mean, it was the most peaceful
Speaker 2: and pleasant experience I had at a sporting event.
Speaker 1: Wow, and not even yeah, I wouldn't even think that
Speaker 1: how present you could be without the alcohol.
Speaker 2: It's very present.
Speaker 1: Wow, you know, speak about being present. I've known you
Speaker 1: and Tracy for a number of years. You guys love
Speaker 1: each other out loud. Most people don't have what you
Speaker 1: guys have, the years of friendship that you guys have.
Speaker 1: Like I'm usually talking to people that are changing friends
Speaker 1: every two to three years and then best friends. How
Speaker 1: important has the friendship for you on your healing journey?
Speaker 1: Because I often tell clients or just even in my
Speaker 1: circle that you can't heal without a community. How important
Speaker 1: is the friendship and having people who can be present.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well she's been. She's been very important for me
Speaker 2: throughout our friendship throughout life because I was the hot head.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm like cush that bitch in the throat,
Speaker 2: and she like bring it to zero, come back, find
Speaker 2: your zero, you know what I mean. She's a labor
Speaker 2: so she actually balanced me. And I'm a Virgo and
Speaker 2: I get heady and I'm very analytical, and so she
Speaker 2: helped me work through that. As a kid and we
Speaker 2: can be very judgmental, she worked with me on that.
Speaker 2: So I'm a very conscious virgo, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I know how to check myself on that. Part of
Speaker 2: my astrological side shows up, you know. What I mean
Speaker 2: because of her, you know, she you know, and going
Speaker 2: through what I go through in the industry, it's good
Speaker 2: to have someone to check in on me because I'm
Speaker 2: good at pretending. I have to, you know, I have
Speaker 2: to show up to work and put on that smile
Speaker 2: even though I'm dying inside, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And so because I have someone who understands that, just
Speaker 2: by the sound of my hello, she will pull up.
Speaker 2: You know, Pam, you met Pam. She will pull up
Speaker 2: like you don't sound right. I don't care what's going
Speaker 2: on out there. I need to come look at them eyes,
Speaker 2: you know. And it's important to have people like that
Speaker 2: because it's easy to isolate. It's so easy, and I can.
Speaker 2: I isolate. Well, I told you where I live, on
Speaker 2: the hilltop, away from everything. But you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So you have to have people to check on you
Speaker 2: because sometimes I don't even know that I'm not right
Speaker 2: until she breaks because I'm so used to being.
Speaker 1: On you know.
Speaker 2: She was like, you good, and I'm like, yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 2: She's like, no, you're not, and then that forces me
Speaker 2: to check, you know what. I'm a little I do
Speaker 2: feel a little off. You know, so it's very important.
Speaker 2: I said that to the kids out at Copa University yesterday.
Speaker 2: I was like, y'all check on each other. Don't let
Speaker 2: don't let your friends or your you know, people in
Speaker 2: your circle suffer if they don't sound right, don't look
Speaker 2: like check on them. Pull up. Yeah, you could be
Speaker 2: saving a life.
Speaker 1: You know. That's what I miss most about the elders. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's My grandmother used to say, baby, come by and
Speaker 1: let me lay eyes on you. And here's how they
Speaker 1: knew that something was going on, because you would stay away. Yep,
Speaker 1: because the moment they saw you, you know that they
Speaker 1: would see. And we need people that will call us
Speaker 1: and say, let me lay eyes on me and to
Speaker 1: feel your energy and to feel where your spirit is.
Speaker 1: And I see you know, there's the Surgeon General Vivik
Speaker 1: talks a lot about this epidemic of loneliness that we
Speaker 1: have and there's so many lonely people. That's such loneliness.
Speaker 1: And we would think that we're more connected because we
Speaker 1: have phones, but as I like to say, I think
Speaker 1: we are overly connected but underly commune because we don't
Speaker 1: have real connections. You know, we don't have real people
Speaker 1: that really have this level of sagaciousness desernment to say,
Speaker 1: you know what, some is off with you? Yep. And
Speaker 1: when we don't have that, this is why we have
Speaker 1: a lot of people who just feel nobody cares and
Speaker 1: I think they're not giving the space for people. How
Speaker 1: important am And I want this to really be loud,
Speaker 1: for sisters to hear that it's okay to allow yourself
Speaker 1: to be truly seen, and men to be seen to say, hey,
Speaker 1: I need somebody to sit with me.
Speaker 2: I think we have, especially Black people, we have been
Speaker 2: trained and conditioned through our trauma to be strong and
Speaker 2: put on this front like I'm good, I'm good. But
Speaker 2: I always say the strength is in vulnerability. You know,
Speaker 2: when you're able to be vulnerable and speak your truth,
Speaker 2: that's what draws more people in because people are afraid
Speaker 2: to do that. You know a lot of people are
Speaker 2: afraid to do that. But you have to because being
Speaker 2: strong all the time will break you. We're not buildings
Speaker 2: were we are not here. We're not built like a
Speaker 2: structure like this. We're not supposed to be strong all
Speaker 2: the time. Yeah, there's sometimes when you have to pull
Speaker 2: it together, but you can't do that all the time,
Speaker 2: and it's humanly impossible.
Speaker 1: It is it is all right. I want to ask
Speaker 1: you this. You started the Board's Hitsion Foundation because of
Speaker 1: your dad, and who was.
Speaker 2: A man who was very strong but was not afraid
Speaker 2: to be vulnerable. He would cry, he would talk about
Speaker 2: when he didn't feel right. I mean, he wore his
Speaker 2: heart on his sleeve. He was incredible. I miss him
Speaker 2: so much.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Oh no, no, you're good. No, yeah, And
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you share that knowing with what you've done,
Speaker 1: and you have pioneered a space in the mental health
Speaker 1: ram and you have created opportunities for these conversations. I
Speaker 1: often say it was you and Charlotmagne who really championed
Speaker 1: the space for blacks because no one had never seen
Speaker 1: any one of you, guys, caliper be open about your challenges.
Speaker 1: What would your dad say today if he could see
Speaker 1: the Workers show.
Speaker 2: And not be honest? Because is anybody gonna be offended
Speaker 2: with the N word? He called everybody nigga? You be
Speaker 2: like little nigga. I'm proud of you. That's exactly. I
Speaker 2: can hear him in my dream sometimes he comes to
Speaker 2: me so vividly in my that's another thing I hadn't
Speaker 2: dreampt about my father and so long, and I stopped drinking,
Speaker 2: and I've been having very lucid dreams where I see him,
Speaker 2: I hear him. The last dream I had about him,
Speaker 2: he had come to visit. This is the only house
Speaker 2: he had never seen passed away before I got this house,
Speaker 2: and he was, Hey, come to visit, and he was
Speaker 2: building hedges around all my windows. He was like, nah,
Speaker 2: because they're building them all down the way. You know,
Speaker 2: the little niggas gonna be trying to come up here,
Speaker 2: rob you. So I had to participate. That was him
Speaker 2: letting me know in spirit he's still protastrophe. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: that's what he would say.
Speaker 1: Wow, I love it. I love it. Hey, little nigga,
Speaker 1: you doing it? That sound like that sounds like my grandmama.
Speaker 1: Well man, that that is so beautiful. This question I
Speaker 1: asked all the guests and I asked this question. This
Speaker 1: podcast is just here with doctor j. You've been open
Speaker 1: about your healing journey. I've been opened by my healing journey.
Speaker 1: And I asked myself this question, and uh, it was
Speaker 1: one that I had to take a deep breath and
Speaker 1: deep side. When you think of healing. What does healing
Speaker 1: means to you? To to lodge? We see?
Speaker 2: Well, I tell you this, It ain't all pretty, you know,
Speaker 2: because you're gonna have to open up some scars that hurt,
Speaker 2: and you're gonna have to go to some ugly places.
Speaker 2: But the only way to get through it is to
Speaker 2: get through it. You can't go under it, you can't
Speaker 2: go over you can't avoid it because eventually it's gonna implode.
Speaker 2: Eventually it's gonna overtake you. So you have to go
Speaker 2: through the muck to get through to the other side.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: They always say, I know it's cliche. After every storm
Speaker 2: the sun comes out, God go through the storm first,
Speaker 2: you know, But that's how That's how you have to undo,
Speaker 2: and undoing sometimes can be very uncomfortable. You have to
Speaker 2: have very uncomfortable conversations with yourself, with people you know
Speaker 2: who helped with the trauma. But you know it's it
Speaker 2: can be tough, and but you can do it. You know,
Speaker 2: if I could do it, it, Jay can do it. You
Speaker 2: can do it because it's in you to do it
Speaker 2: and it's your responsibility. Yes, you know, you can't keep
Speaker 2: blaming everybody, especially at a big grown age. At some
Speaker 2: point you have to take responsibility for your healing. You must, Yes,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Do you feel a lot of people are afraid to
Speaker 1: take it?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, because they're scared to go through the storm. You know,
Speaker 2: they think somehow sweeping things under the carpet is gonna
Speaker 2: make it good.
Speaker 1: But you know, and as I said, just because you hot,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean it's not there.
Speaker 2: It's always there. It comes out in ways, you know,
Speaker 2: it comes it manifests itself in how you deal with people.
Speaker 1: That part.
Speaker 2: If you're drinking too heavy, you're smoking a little too much, like,
Speaker 2: all of that is escapism. If you're going out eating
Speaker 2: too much sex, I mean, it's it manifests itself in
Speaker 2: all kinds of ways. So you gotta deal with it.
Speaker 1: Yes, you gotta deal with it because if you don't
Speaker 1: deal with it, gonna deal with you. It's gonna deal
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 2: And deal with you, and it's going to affect your health.
Speaker 2: You have a nervous system.
Speaker 1: Come on, talk about it.
Speaker 2: And I'm not a scientist. I'm not a doctor to
Speaker 2: talk about it, but I am a doctor. But you know,
Speaker 2: because I what is it what honorary?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, you are.
Speaker 2: Right, but I'm not that kind. But I do know
Speaker 2: you have a nervous system and your your body listens
Speaker 2: to your brain, you know, and so if you're not
Speaker 2: feeding yourself good information, it's going to show up in
Speaker 2: your body. You said what I want you look good?
Speaker 2: What fountain you're drinking from? I said, the fountain of peace, peace,
Speaker 2: the found piece that I protect my piece at all call.
Speaker 2: If you not on a healing journey, I can't talk
Speaker 2: to you. But bye, I can't. I can't do it.
Speaker 1: I can't do it because it costs too much.
Speaker 2: It cost me my peace, and I'm not willing to
Speaker 2: give that up. I finally got here. You understand what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. Yes, you better exhale. I finally got here,
Speaker 2: not hard and how long and how much stuff I
Speaker 2: had to go do to get here, Like, I finally
Speaker 2: got here, and I'm just not gonna let anybody disturb
Speaker 2: me from my peace.
Speaker 1: Yeah. See when I tell you, I love that for
Speaker 1: you and to see your journey. And that's really what
Speaker 1: I was telling CJ. I said, Man, I really want
Speaker 1: us all to get to a place where we're just
Speaker 1: not stuck on survival. Yeah, and we're not stuck on,
Speaker 1: you know, just trying to figure it out each time
Speaker 1: and just like allowing ourselves to have this level of
Speaker 1: peace where we know what it's like to just breath.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And it's gonna take us to heal us,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Nobody's gonna come and save us. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know. And I think what we're doing, the work
Speaker 2: that we're doing, is so important because we're allowing people
Speaker 2: to the freedom to feel the fear and to talk
Speaker 2: about it in the open, because once upon a time,
Speaker 2: this wasn't talked about like that.
Speaker 1: No, it wasn't. You know.
Speaker 2: Everybody's pretending to be strong and like they have it together,
Speaker 2: especially celebrities or people in the limelight, because people on
Speaker 2: the outside look in and think, oh, they have everything.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you something like the Great Guru Biggie
Speaker 2: Small said, more money, more problems, because money does not
Speaker 2: do the rich people, the filthy rids. They're the most unhealed,
Speaker 2: unhealthy folk walking the universe because money can't fix it.
Speaker 1: It can't. Bishop Jakes told me this is recently. He said,
Speaker 1: I was telling him about the podcast and he was
Speaker 1: excited and everything I'm doing, and he looked at me
Speaker 1: and he said, you don't realize how much we needed.
Speaker 1: He said, I don't know that. He said, you know
Speaker 1: what type of people I'm connected to? Jay, He said,
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody that's at peace right now. Listen,
Speaker 1: And I mean he was in this in his fashion.
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody that's at peace. You gotta do this,
Speaker 1: And I'm like vicious because he said, think about celebrities
Speaker 1: and the entertainers and all these high level especially for
Speaker 1: black people who are under this umbrella of black excellence
Speaker 1: that I think oftentimes is really blanket in black anxiety.
Speaker 2: Mm ooh or chill? Would not my son say that.
Speaker 1: Because there's this pressure to keep performing. Yeah, And he said,
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody that's at peace right now. So
Speaker 1: to hear you come in and say, I'm drinking for
Speaker 1: from the fountain of peace.
Speaker 2: Baby, Listen, I'm not even dating right now. Somebody's like,
Speaker 2: you're not dating. No, I'm not dealing with nobody's unhealed. Son.
Speaker 2: Can I get an amen?
Speaker 3: Hallelu hallelou because I'm telling you I've had my house renovated,
Speaker 3: right and I found this incredible black full out of
Speaker 3: the South to come in to design the interior and
Speaker 3: they are incredible.
Speaker 2: But I told them in the beginning, I said, I
Speaker 2: wanted to look like a straight girl house when you
Speaker 2: come in here. If I start dating, I don't want
Speaker 2: no dude to feel like, oh yeah, I can know
Speaker 2: you can't move up in here. In fact, guess what,
Speaker 2: I don't even have a drawer for your stuff. I
Speaker 2: don't have a drawer because my stuff is in all
Speaker 2: the drawers. So pack your bag when you come, and
Speaker 2: pack it up when you go. And you know, I'm
Speaker 2: even thinking about like the marriage thing, like, I don't
Speaker 2: even know if I need the stresses of that in
Speaker 2: my life. A lot of lifetime partner for sure, but
Speaker 2: at this big old age, I'm not having kids. You
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, I want a partner. I don't
Speaker 2: know if I want the papers to go. I don't
Speaker 2: know if I want that. No, I'm not saying I
Speaker 2: don't want a man. I need to be very clear
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 1: But that's real, though, Tie, That's real because at this
Speaker 1: season and at this juncture, the work you've done, and
Speaker 1: I often tell people the work that you've done, you
Speaker 1: would have to undo this to deal with somebody who
Speaker 1: hasn't done work, who's afraid to do work, and then
Speaker 1: who's not really committed to.
Speaker 2: The work, And I'm not willing to do that.
Speaker 1: They'll start going to therapy just because you talked about it,
Speaker 1: but you're not really committed. Because if you know, you're
Speaker 1: really going to therapy because I brought it up, but
Speaker 1: you're not really interested in growing and evolving. And if
Speaker 1: you're not with somebody that is committed to their own journey, yeah.
Speaker 2: Then I can't help you because I'm not willing to
Speaker 2: give up my piece. I fought too hard to get here.
Speaker 2: I'm just not willing I even do this. Like you know,
Speaker 2: there's certain things that I will go to in the
Speaker 2: industry and certain things that I want. The first question
Speaker 2: I ask is is this going to cost me any
Speaker 2: parts of my piece? Because if it is, I don't
Speaker 2: have to go. I don't have to go. I don't care.
Speaker 1: It's funny you say that because I started telling my
Speaker 1: manager that I said to leave my house. Now you
Speaker 1: got to pay me to leave my peace because my
Speaker 1: home I've created such serene. Just it's it's I'm living
Speaker 1: my place overlooked the water. It's just if I leave, man,
Speaker 1: and it's not even about the bag anymore.
Speaker 2: I was about to say that because it could be
Speaker 2: a bag, and I'd be like that sounds like chaos.
Speaker 2: Give it to somebody else. I've turned down jobs as
Speaker 2: there's directors.
Speaker 1: I just.
Speaker 2: Energy is transferable, and so what I do as an
Speaker 2: artist like I have to open up chakras. I let
Speaker 2: these characters come inside my body and use my body
Speaker 2: as a vessel to tell their story. That's a very
Speaker 2: vulnerable place to be. So if I don't feel like
Speaker 2: I'm protected, if I don't feel like I'm going to
Speaker 2: be protecting an environment that is nurturing to the process,
Speaker 2: I will turn it down. No, that's right, because I can't.
Speaker 2: I can't sacrifice myself like that.
Speaker 1: For y'all, especially for these up and coming artists who
Speaker 1: feel like they have to listen. If I haven't learned
Speaker 1: anything else on my journey from you, from Tracy, from
Speaker 1: all of the people that mentored me. They always say, man,
Speaker 1: be very particular about what you say yes to.
Speaker 2: Everything, ain't about a dollar, Like, be careful what you
Speaker 2: ask for. You'd be very specific, be very clear on
Speaker 2: what you're asking for. Like these kids, they see the limelight,
Speaker 2: they see they don't realize we're still real people going
Speaker 2: through real stuff. Like it's not just you become an
Speaker 2: actor and all of a sudden life is pristine and
Speaker 2: it's no you go, you put on the show, and
Speaker 2: then you still go back home to the mess you left.
Speaker 2: That's you know. I think it's harder for what we
Speaker 2: do because we have to show up and pretend like everything.
Speaker 2: So there have been times when I was going through
Speaker 2: hell in scenes that you've seen me in movies, my
Speaker 2: life was in shambles, but I had to pretend like
Speaker 2: everything was okay. That is the hardest thing to do,
Speaker 2: and it is it is. It strips your soul. I
Speaker 2: can't explain it. You just there were times where I
Speaker 2: just felt so empty and lost, you know, because because
Speaker 2: there was no safe landing for me, it was always
Speaker 2: show up. You gotta be on, You gotta show the
Speaker 2: people everything's okay, and it's like, but I'm not. I'm
Speaker 2: not okay.
Speaker 1: You know, as you're talking, one of the characters that
Speaker 1: stand out to me when you were was talking about
Speaker 1: just being at a place where it's like your life
Speaker 1: is in shamble. The other that I was watching hustling Flow, Oh,
Speaker 1: and that character I mean, was just I mean, you
Speaker 1: can you can see this pushing, this pull, but you
Speaker 1: can see this love, you can see this care, but
Speaker 1: you can also see the vulnerability because she was at
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, you know his you know,
Speaker 1: at the mercy of him of DJ. Was that like
Speaker 1: and it's just a little bit about that. How was that?
Speaker 1: Because I'm sure there's this war between the character and
Speaker 1: the reality, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Well, for me, when I first got the script, I
Speaker 2: remember John Sinkings and May recipes I miss you so much.
Speaker 2: He was like, I need your eyes. He always told
Speaker 2: me about my eyes. He was like, you don't have
Speaker 2: to do much. You just have to think it and
Speaker 2: the camera's gonna do the rest. Because I came from theaters,
Speaker 2: I was very big, but I and I'm glad he
Speaker 2: said it like that. And he was like, you picked
Speaker 2: the character you want to play. And of course Lexus,
Speaker 2: the loud mouth with the blind hair, that character. Of
Speaker 2: course she jumped off the page because she was loud
Speaker 2: about it. But when he said I need your eyes
Speaker 2: is very specific, and that's when I leaned into Shug
Speaker 2: because she was the quiet mouse. And then I started
Speaker 2: thinking about the women who choose, because I don't think
Speaker 2: people some women are forced into sex working and some
Speaker 2: choose to do that, you know. But I started thinking
Speaker 2: about her, and I was thinking about this one in particular,
Speaker 2: and I was thinking about ooh who didn't love her?
Speaker 2: Because she just seemed like someone who did not feel seen. Yes, yes, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: And that's how I played it. I played the y
Speaker 2: and so for her to turn tricks, it was her
Speaker 2: way of giving love because no one loved her. And
Speaker 2: so that's what you saw in her. And I was like,
Speaker 2: I want people to want to reach through this screen
Speaker 2: and hug her. Yes, I said, I want people to
Speaker 2: see this diamond in the rough, because that's where all
Speaker 2: people who aren't seen. They are diamonds. We're all diamonds.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It takes pressure to make a diamond, right, But if
Speaker 2: you're not saying and no one takes kid, find the
Speaker 2: diamond and dust it off, and you know, then it'll
Speaker 2: just be a dirty rock, right. And so that's how
Speaker 2: I played her. I played the why, and that's why.
Speaker 2: That's how you gain the empathy of an audience, even
Speaker 2: with the worst character in the world, a villain. If
Speaker 2: you play the why, then the audience will feel for
Speaker 2: even the villain. Yes, you know, but there's always a
Speaker 2: why a person is the way they are, you know.
Speaker 2: But I just knew that she had been through a
Speaker 2: lot of mistreatment and abuse probably and just thrown away
Speaker 2: and tossed the side and treated like property.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: That's why that moment in the studio when she hears
Speaker 2: her voice for the first time is like.
Speaker 1: Look, oh man, that when I tell you that part
Speaker 1: broke me. Because I'm thinking from a healing perspective, is
Speaker 1: that most people just want to know that their voice matters.
Speaker 2: Right, Because the director was very smart, Craig Brewer, I
Speaker 2: love you, but the director was very smart because I
Speaker 2: remember I did this and he ran in and whispered
Speaker 2: in mind. He said, put your hand on your mouth,
Speaker 2: and I did that, and it was almost like that
Speaker 2: came out of my mouth, like so he was tracking
Speaker 2: what I was thinking. You know, that was a very
Speaker 2: special project for me, and I got paid nothing for it,
Speaker 2: but those independent films you do it for other reasons.
Speaker 2: You know. It was the story for me.
Speaker 1: But all of that, and as you talk, all of
Speaker 1: that just just really stood out for me because it
Speaker 1: was the first time that I ever watched the film
Speaker 1: from a clinical or from a psychoanalytical perspective, and I
Speaker 1: was looking at the characters because sometime I do that
Speaker 1: because it really helps me to really connect with people,
Speaker 1: even in speaking, because most people, if you have not
Speaker 1: been seen, if you have not been heard, you don't
Speaker 1: feel valuable. And in that moment, Shug felt like, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm somebody.
Speaker 2: I could be somebody, I could do something, I could
Speaker 2: do more than what I'm doing, Like you saw her
Speaker 2: come alive.
Speaker 1: That's what you have done for so many people in
Speaker 1: the mental health space.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I hope so.
Speaker 1: No, there's no hope. You you have done that. You
Speaker 1: have helped so many people heal, and especially during the
Speaker 1: time of the pandemic where people needed somebody to talk to.
Speaker 1: I believe people wasn't just looking for therapy. People just
Speaker 1: was looking for space where they can share unapologetically and
Speaker 1: just to really have have an environment where it's like, man,
Speaker 1: I don't have to be whatever roles or titles that
Speaker 1: I've and I just want to say thank you for
Speaker 1: taking out the time to come on this podcast.
Speaker 2: Just you knew I was coming.
Speaker 1: Listen, listen, I know, I love you, I love I
Speaker 1: made your love you and Tracy, y'all. It has been
Speaker 1: so amazing. And it was y'all because when when Will
Speaker 1: reached out about the podcast, and I'm telling you, I
Speaker 1: was just like, man, I don't know if I want
Speaker 1: to do it. I didn't know if it would be
Speaker 1: a space because.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I was going to make you
Speaker 2: do it. Because he came to my trailer where we
Speaker 2: were on fight night. He was like, do you know
Speaker 2: any men who are in the mental health But I said,
Speaker 2: I sure do right now, and I sent them your page.
Speaker 2: I said, this is the guy you want. I said,
Speaker 2: he already has an audience, the men already trust him.
Speaker 2: You know nothing, it's not new new. I said, that's
Speaker 2: who you want. Tap him right away. Well I didn't
Speaker 2: even pause when he asked.
Speaker 1: And I appreciate it, and I just want to say
Speaker 1: thank you and keep being a light that you are
Speaker 1: to the world because in this climate we need it.
Speaker 1: And I like to acknowledge not what you do, which
Speaker 1: is who you are, because acting is just that that's
Speaker 1: a gift, but who you are as a person, because
Speaker 1: you have to have a real heart to care about
Speaker 1: more than just yourself and what you've done with the
Speaker 1: foundation and even what you continue to do, you care
Speaker 1: about more than just yourself. And I know your father
Speaker 1: is proud to do this in the honor of him,
Speaker 1: and then just for us as a people who need
Speaker 1: so much healing. But you have blazer trail for us
Speaker 1: to do it and to continue to doing it because again,
Speaker 1: it was a black woman and it would be you
Speaker 1: go down in history to Roger started his movement. So
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you for starting the
Speaker 1: movement and allow me to be a part of it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, absolutely so again to all of my healers, listen,
Speaker 1: please subscribe. You can watch Just Heal Doctor J on
Speaker 1: my YouTube channel Just Heal Doctor J. Or you can
Speaker 1: listen audibly on The Black Effect and iHeart Just Heal
Speaker 1: with Doctor J. And until next time, remember healing is
Speaker 1: a journey and wholeness is the destination. Just Heal with
Speaker 1: Doctor J a production of The Black Effect podcast Network.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: And you can follow me at King J. Barnett on
Speaker 1: Instagram and x and follow us on YouTube. Just here
Speaker 1: Doctor J.