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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or.

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Speaker 1: Showed us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, trust for trust me.

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Speaker 2: I'm like a swat person. I've never lied to you.

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Speaker 1: If you think that one person has all the answers, don't.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme belief

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Speaker 2: and manipulation from two worldly gals who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 1: I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: Today our guest is Jessica Kahn, former member of a

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Speaker 2: religious group that we're going to call The Narrow Road.

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Speaker 2: She's going to tell us about being born into this

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Speaker 2: isolated fundamentalist Christian sect that was originally formed as an

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Speaker 2: addiction treatment program. It's leader's connection to the founders of

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Speaker 2: AA and how every part of life was strictly controlled.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about how they believe the end of the

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Speaker 1: world would happen on y two k The leader systematic

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Speaker 1: physical abuse and the violent incident that finally led her

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Speaker 1: to leave.

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Speaker 2: And so much more. She's a great speaker, y'all. Before

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Speaker 2: we dive in with Jessica Meghan, what is your cultiest

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Speaker 2: thing of the week?

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Speaker 1: I have too, so I'm going to just make them

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Speaker 1: both really quick. Okay. Number one, P Diddy definitely running

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Speaker 1: some sort of little call in his world. Right, we agree,

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Speaker 1: But what really struck me is his apology where he's

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Speaker 1: been gaslighting everyone and saying none of this happened. Then

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Speaker 1: there's a video release of him beating a woman up,

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Speaker 1: and his apology is very like, I am asking for forgiveness,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of is just that narcissistic higher powers

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Speaker 1: forgiven me. So like you guys all should too, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Which Russell Brand also just did. Everyone is like suddenly

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Speaker 2: finding Jesus when there isn't there no other avenue for

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Speaker 2: forgiveness for them. Yeah, that's crazy. That video, by the way,

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Speaker 2: is harrowing, absolutely harrowing.

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Speaker 1: So awful, and we get a lot into physical abuse

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Speaker 1: in this episode, so it seemed it's just awful. But secondly,

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Speaker 1: I have to throw this in the chat. Scarlett Johansson

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Speaker 1: is like in a huge fight with chat GPT four

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Speaker 1: points oh benay, Yeah, Yeah, they're using her voice. And

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Speaker 1: she said that when the CEO reached out to her,

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Speaker 1: he said that he felt that I could bridge the

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Speaker 1: gap between tech companies and creatives and help consumers feel

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Speaker 1: comfortable with the seismic shift concerning humans and AI. He

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Speaker 1: said he felt that my voice would be comforting to people.

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Speaker 1: That is scary to me.

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Speaker 2: It's so scary, so scary.

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Speaker 1: And she said no because and who knows why she said.

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Speaker 1: She says she said no for personal reasons and after

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Speaker 1: much consideration. But I mean maybe she kind of realized,

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Speaker 1: like lulling people into being comfortable with this seismic jump

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Speaker 1: just because they're familiar with my voice might not be ethical.

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Speaker 2: Also, I was reading about that guy and all the

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Speaker 2: controversy around him, and he completely scares me. He scares

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Speaker 2: me so much, just seems to have so little regard

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Speaker 2: for safety and transparency around AI. I'm just gonna go

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Speaker 2: ahead and say, fuck that guy. That's all I'm going

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Speaker 2: to contribute to that.

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Speaker 1: Wild wild West. What about you? What's the cultiest thing

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Speaker 1: that happened to you this week?

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Speaker 2: Aside from General Gaza, panic, which continues ceasefire. Now I

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Speaker 2: found an image, So my mom is basically like writing

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Speaker 2: out her life story for a variety of reasons. But

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Speaker 2: she was, you know, I was looking through it for

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Speaker 2: her and looking through some of the images she uploaded

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Speaker 2: from her life. She has a picture of her journal

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Speaker 2: entry from I believe, nineteen ninety eight. So keep in mind,

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Speaker 2: you guys, if you haven't heard episode one of this show.

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Speaker 2: Aside from my cult leader that I believed, in separately

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Speaker 2: from that, my mom a little bit before that, had

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Speaker 2: met actually Keith Ranieri of Nexium, Nexium had not begun yet,

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Speaker 2: so before Nexium is officially started, he's still up there

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Speaker 2: in Albany. He's with Nancy Saltzman, I believe, already at

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Speaker 2: that point, and my mom had gone up to visit.

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Speaker 2: I don't even remember how they met now. Probably she

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Speaker 2: said it in the episode. But here's what her journal

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Speaker 2: entry says from this time. It's cut up at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: It probably says I've been on the previous page getting

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Speaker 2: involved with the National Health Network. In fact, right now

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Speaker 2: I am on a train alone to Albany. I am

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Speaker 2: hired to do some writing for them. I also want

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Speaker 2: to market for them because they are taking on the

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Speaker 2: Applebrook product line. This was a children's education program she

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Speaker 2: had begun. Keith Ranieri is the founder. He is unique,

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Speaker 2: but he scares me. He is supposedly one of the

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Speaker 2: smartest men in the world, but he's really into energy

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Speaker 2: and sex and he's trying to draw me into his

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Speaker 2: way of thinking. This is nineteen ninety eight. This is

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Speaker 2: before any of that fucking shit.

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Speaker 1: So this is before she I met her profit that

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Speaker 1: would ultimately lead her down a wrong path. She was like,

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Speaker 1: she had all this critical thinking skills that that profit

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Speaker 1: was able to jump.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she had like turned down some Keith's offers, like

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Speaker 2: he was trying to get her to go up there

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Speaker 2: and join them. And then when and then when our

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Speaker 2: other cult leader was sort of swindling her over there,

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Speaker 2: manipulating her systematically over time. Even Keith R. Niery, as

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Speaker 2: I've talked about before, was like, no, n that guy's

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Speaker 2: full of shit. There's a quote of Keith Niery saying

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Speaker 2: that in an article about their situation. But meanwhile he

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Speaker 2: was trying to recruit my mom. So fascinating that that exists.

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Speaker 2: I guess. There's a website called the Frank Report. Do

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Speaker 2: you know about this? Yes, I guess the Frank Report

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Speaker 2: had actually posted this screenshot years ago, which I did

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Speaker 2: not know about. But yeah, so I was just fascinated

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Speaker 2: to see what my mom's thinking was about KEITHR. Niery

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Speaker 2: at the actual time that it was happening. And it

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Speaker 2: sounds like he stayed the person that he was and

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Speaker 2: you know, obviously got much worse, but those tendencies were

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Speaker 2: already there, which is interesting.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, he's horrible crazy.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, speaking of horrible mans. Yeah, should we talk to Jessica.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk to Jessica.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Jessica Kahn to trust me.

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Speaker 3: Hello, thank you, nice to be here.

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Speaker 2: You are here with us today because you have been

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Speaker 2: kind of sharing your story online and are working on

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Speaker 2: sharing your story in book form about your cult upbringing.

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Speaker 2: And today we're going to use some pseudonyms because this

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Speaker 2: has been a litigious group in the past, so we're

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Speaker 2: going to call the group the Narrow Road. And I

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Speaker 2: would love to know just from the beginning kind of

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Speaker 2: how you came to be in this church, what your

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Speaker 2: family's situation was, and yeah, start us at the beginning, yes.

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Speaker 4: Okay, all right, well that's always an interesting story. I

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Speaker 4: was actually born delivered at home in the cults. My

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Speaker 4: mother gave birth to me. My parents had joined about

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Speaker 4: a year prior, so I was born into this cult.

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Speaker 4: So that is how I came to be in the

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Speaker 4: cult is I was born into it. And my parents

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Speaker 4: it was in the late sixties early seventies. They were

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Speaker 4: kind of hippies. They were looking for alternative lifestyle, looking

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Speaker 4: for you know, to raise their children in what they

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Speaker 4: thought would be a safer, more enriching life. And they

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Speaker 4: had been involved in different study groups and spiritual quests.

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Speaker 4: And the leader of the cult in which my parents

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Speaker 4: had joined was printing a lot of materials about the

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Speaker 4: spiritual life as well as addiction because he actually was

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Speaker 4: one of the first members of the original group of AA,

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Speaker 4: so Bill Wilson's group, Yes, and he had had a

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Speaker 4: really difficult time getting sober with AA. And actually Bill

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Speaker 4: Wilson at the time, I think I can say Wilson

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Speaker 4: maybe Bill w not sure. At the time, they actually

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Speaker 4: didn't believe that a program could work. They literally said

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Speaker 4: for people with sociopathic tendencies. And he was convinced that

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Speaker 4: he was. He wanted to get sober and so he

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Speaker 4: went into the at the time they called it the nuthouse,

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Speaker 4: but it's an institution, and he received something like seventeen

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Speaker 4: or eighteen electrical shock therapies and that ultimately, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Which is Asier leader who were calling Sweeney, this is Sweeney.

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Speaker 1: Sweeney received seventeen shocks.

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Speaker 4: Okay, yes, I think seventeen eighteen something like that, but

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Speaker 4: a large amount it was during that time in the

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Speaker 4: early in the late fifties. And then there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of conspiracy theories around that and of itself with MK

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Speaker 4: ultra and electrical shock therapy during that time, so that's

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Speaker 4: a whole nother there's a lot of people speculating around that.

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Speaker 4: But he was able to stay sober at that time.

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Speaker 4: Joined the AA group that was Bill Wilson's, helped write

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Speaker 4: some of the initial books that are the AA founding books,

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Speaker 4: like the twelve and twelve and the Big Book and

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Speaker 4: things like that. YESO, and then ultimately got kicked out

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Speaker 4: because he didn't like to take direction. He wanted to

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Speaker 4: be in control. You start to see these these qualities manifesting.

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Speaker 4: Left that group, bought a plot of lands about two

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Speaker 4: and a half hours out of New York City and

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Speaker 4: decided to take the principles of AA and open it

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Speaker 4: up to all addicts, and so initially a lot of

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Speaker 4: his outreach work was for people that were struggling with addiction,

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Speaker 4: so already people that aren't necessarily you know, they're having

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Speaker 4: a hard time with real life multiple website.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like, is it kind of

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Speaker 2: like Synanon a little bit?

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Speaker 3: I going to ask, probably, you know I have I am.

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Speaker 4: I it's very hard for I don't know too much

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Speaker 4: about other cults because every time I go to read

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Speaker 4: or watch it's very triggering for me. So I actually

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Speaker 4: don't know that much about other cults. But from what

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Speaker 4: I understand, yes, that's what a lot of people have

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Speaker 4: told me.

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Speaker 1: So, And is he kind of saying I'm a sociopath,

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Speaker 1: so I AA is not going to work for me? Liked?

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Speaker 1: Was he that self aware?

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Speaker 3: He wasn't?

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Speaker 4: I think I think it was the Bill Wilson some

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Speaker 4: of the like his sponsors and people that were utilizing

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Speaker 4: the AA principles to try to help him get so

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Speaker 4: virginally believed that he wasn't capable, that he was outside

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Speaker 4: of the reach of AA.

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Speaker 2: Believe they believed he was associated.

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Speaker 4: They believed.

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Speaker 3: They believed, Yes, got it.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting. So he forms a group outside of

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Speaker 2: New York and basically is like, hey, all you people

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Speaker 2: struggling with addiction, come here and join my program. I'm

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Speaker 2: the real program that's going to help you.

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Speaker 4: Basically, that's yes, something to that degree. Yes, And he

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Speaker 4: started printing out like these self help books and it

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Speaker 4: was AA.

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Speaker 3: It was taking AA to a.

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Speaker 4: Little bit more of a spiritual level too, so you know,

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Speaker 4: finding God and how to connect with God. And it

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Speaker 4: was like the twelve step programs were kind of the core,

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Speaker 4: but he was exploring all sorts of spiritual paths and

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Speaker 4: so he was writing about it, and a lot of

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Speaker 4: people would come up he had this big plot of

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Speaker 4: land and come up from the city for retreats and

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Speaker 4: with him. And that's how I you know, that's before

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Speaker 4: my time. So this is just all that I understand

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Speaker 4: in retrospect or people who've told me so. And my

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Speaker 4: parents were searching at the time for like higher meeting

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Speaker 4: and purpose in their lives. And my father, my father

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Speaker 4: really is the one that brought my mother there and

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Speaker 4: was the reason they came. And my father had had

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Speaker 4: some trouble with addiction, as well, so he had sort

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Speaker 4: of connected through the addiction route. And then, of course,

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Speaker 4: you know when people that aren't making it in real

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Speaker 4: life suddenly they're staying sober, there tends to be kind

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Speaker 4: of a he becomes the hero. He's the one that

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Speaker 4: saved them, He's the one that helped them get sober.

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Speaker 4: And so that started to form, and so people also

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Speaker 4: started to stay and buy little plots of land around

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Speaker 4: and build houses, and it was kind of became from a.

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Speaker 3: Retreat into a community into a raging cult.

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Speaker 4: And by the time I was a young child, we

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Speaker 4: were bull throttle in cultism for sure.

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Speaker 2: Wow. So, yeah, it's such an interesting point that you

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Speaker 2: bring up, because I've heard about this happening with Scientology

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Speaker 2: as well, because they have, you know, an addiction rehabilitation

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Speaker 2: program or branch of some kind, and there I have

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Speaker 2: heard people say, yeah, but they really know how to

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Speaker 2: get people sober. So you know, it's like, if you

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Speaker 2: are providing people with any kind of tools for staying sober,

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Speaker 2: I totally understand why that would seem like a thing

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Speaker 2: to remain a part of. But of course there's like

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Speaker 2: myriad reasons why a program would work on getting people sober.

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Speaker 2: Probably the main one being that there's community support around that.

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Speaker 4: Right, yes, yes, And I feel like, you know, it

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Speaker 4: touches probably we all ultimately at our core want of

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Speaker 4: belong and want to be part of something. And as

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Speaker 4: time went by and my story evolved and I ended

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Speaker 4: up leaving the cold and I got out into the world,

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Speaker 4: and I suddenly one of the hardest things for me

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Speaker 4: was making a decision because I had been raised kind

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Speaker 4: of like a trained dog to obey, and suddenly I

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Speaker 4: felt the responsibility. God, I'm responsible for my choice. And

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Speaker 4: when I realized that, I thought, that's one of the

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Speaker 4: appeals to these kind of religions or cults where you

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Speaker 4: don't have to it's not you just if you obey,

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Speaker 4: then you don't have to worry about the responsibility of

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Speaker 4: making the choice.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: So it was just an interesting and like retrospect when

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Speaker 4: I was out finally in the world, being like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I see, I could see how this could be an

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Speaker 4: appeal for certain kinds of people. Is just you know,

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Speaker 4: just tell me what to do and tell me I'm

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Speaker 4: going to heaven for sure.

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Speaker 2: For sure. We talk about that, we want that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Did your dad struggle with you said he did struggle

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Speaker 2: with it some addiction.

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Speaker 4: He did, yes, you know, from from what I had understand,

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Speaker 4: I think he got himself.

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Speaker 3: I think he was sober before he got to the cults.

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Speaker 4: But I guess he was felt that he was broken

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Speaker 4: and he needed support, and he didn't actually get sober

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Speaker 4: through the twelve step program, but that was his connection

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Speaker 4: there in some form, So I guess maybe an ongo

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Speaker 4: and support so he could stay clean.

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Speaker 1: How did them, Sweeney, how did he afford this plot

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Speaker 1: of land? And did your parents have money? Was it

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Speaker 1: mostly artists? Do they have to give everything over to him?

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Speaker 3: So it's interesting.

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Speaker 4: You know, he was a big advertising executive in New York,

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Speaker 4: so I believe he had money at the time when

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Speaker 4: he bought the land. And I mean throughout the course

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Speaker 4: and the history of the cult, that's what we were

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Speaker 4: always starting these nonprofit organizations sell and going out and

288
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Speaker 4: raising money. Everyone's inheritance was snatched and so money was

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Speaker 4: always we were always you know, we were at one

290
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Speaker 4: point one of the lawyers there was just sealing people's

291
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Speaker 4: trust funds. I mean, there was a lot of illegal

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Speaker 4: activities going on in order to get money in as well.

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Speaker 4: But back then my parents were just poor hippies, so,

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Speaker 4: you know, I think I don't know the specifics now,

295
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Speaker 4: but probably asked my father probably asked his parents for

296
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Speaker 4: a loan or something, and he didn't They didn't actually

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Speaker 4: buy the property, but they bought. We had a trend,

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Speaker 4: so we lived like there was a hierarchy as well,

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Speaker 4: so we were very, very low and it was based

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Speaker 4: also on your you know, how much money you had,

301
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Speaker 4: so that definitely determined how high up.

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Speaker 3: You were and where you lived and so forth.

303
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Speaker 4: But in the very beginning, I don't actually you know,

304
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Speaker 4: I know how towards when I was by the time

305
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Speaker 4: I was living in it, we were always out making

306
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Speaker 4: up big stories about all this work that we were doing,

307
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Speaker 4: and always out raising money for our nonprofits.

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Speaker 2: And what did you or what did your family with

309
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Speaker 2: the people around you, I guess like believe all of

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Speaker 2: this work? Well, like what was the mission?

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Speaker 4: Well, right, so we we did believe the world was ending.

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Speaker 4: We thought two thousand was going to be the big bang,

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Speaker 4: and that what we were told is we were part

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Speaker 4: of a very special group of people. The entire rest

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Speaker 4: of the world was going to hell, and it was

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Speaker 4: in the devil's hands. But this small group, we're only

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Speaker 4: thirty or forty people. We were not a lot of people.

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Speaker 4: We're going to be the ones that God chose to

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Speaker 4: move into the new world. And it was this contradiction

320
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Speaker 4: of we were terrible and bad and we were constantly

321
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Speaker 4: being beaten and punished, and because we were terrible, but

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Speaker 4: then we were also very special and elite from the

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Speaker 4: rest of the world. So from the world we were special,

324
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Speaker 4: but within the cult, we were terrible, and all we

325
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Speaker 4: had to do was constantly repent and have demons beaten

326
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Speaker 4: out of us, and our leader was quite violent. What

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Speaker 4: ended up happening is so he incorporated. Over time, we

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Speaker 4: became a registered church, and it was a religion that

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Speaker 4: he made up that it was partially the twelve step

330
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Speaker 4: programs were incorporated and the Catholicism. So we had the Mass,

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Speaker 4: which is the taking of the Eucharist or the wine.

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Speaker 4: And he was an alcoholic, So what none of us

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Speaker 4: really realized was that he was spending hours a day

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Speaker 4: taking Mass, but he was just drinking bottles and bottles

335
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Speaker 4: of wine. So again I was so naive because this

336
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Speaker 4: was the only environment that I knew that I didn't

337
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Speaker 4: realize again until retrospect, realizing that he was raging, alcoholic

338
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Speaker 4: and in drunken fits.

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Speaker 3: All the time.

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Speaker 4: I had explained this like vulatively heavior where he would

341
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Speaker 4: just out of nowhere calm and just hit or beat

342
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Speaker 4: somebody and was all under the vise of waking them up,

343
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Speaker 4: you know, getting the evil out of them.

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Speaker 3: So it was all it was all for our good

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't sound like trauma bonding recipe.

347
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Speaker 1: I was going to say, the cognitive dissonance and that

348
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Speaker 1: is just unbelievable, and that he started it all to

349
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Speaker 1: get quote unquote sober is just such a per But

350
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Speaker 1: I'm like going into the world of your mother right now,

351
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Speaker 1: where it sounds like she kind of had a relatively

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Speaker 1: quote unquote normalish life until her husband is struggling with addiction.

353
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Speaker 1: She goes into this new world and suddenly she's giving

354
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Speaker 1: birth a home birth, which is my personal worst nightmare.

355
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Speaker 1: Up to you, it sounds like like a home birth

356
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Speaker 1: was part of the rules A little bit was Is

357
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Speaker 1: that true?

358
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Speaker 4: It was true? So we and that was I was

359
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Speaker 4: the I had a sister, so my parents came. My

360
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,879
Speaker 4: sister was like two, I believe when they joined and

361
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Speaker 4: then I was born there and that was the new thing.

362
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Speaker 4: Was just that we had very limited contact with the

363
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Speaker 4: outside world, medical doctors, any anyone of that nature. We

364
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Speaker 4: there were good, good and bad to that because we

365
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,000
Speaker 4: treated a lot of things holistically and there were people

366
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Speaker 4: that had cancer that were cured not because of anything religious,

367
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Speaker 4: but because of the holistic programs that we used. So

368
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Speaker 4: it was we basically did not believe in going to

369
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Speaker 4: the doctor.

370
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Speaker 3: So I almost died.

371
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Speaker 4: Actually I had appendix, a ruptured appendix, and they wouldn't

372
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Speaker 4: let my mother take me to the hospital. And for

373
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Speaker 4: almost three days, I don't know, I mean the pain

374
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Speaker 4: I left my body. I was not present during that time.

375
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Speaker 4: And finally my mother just got me in the car

376
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Speaker 4: and drove me to the local hospital. And the doctor

377
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,080
Speaker 4: when I got there was like, if you don't, if

378
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Speaker 4: we don't operate on her, she's gonna be dead in

379
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Speaker 4: ten minutes. And my mom still had to wait approval.

380
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Speaker 4: Everything had to be approved, so you couldn't you couldn't

381
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Speaker 4: do anything. You couldn't go to a doctor without approval.

382
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,680
Speaker 4: So yes, so going back, sorry to the home births.

383
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Speaker 4: So that was that was the situation, is that the

384
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 4: births were supposed to be done at the cult unless

385
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Speaker 4: a medical emergency, and that medical emergency would be decided

386
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Speaker 4: by the leader and his group of mostly men. Right,

387
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Speaker 4: he had a younger wife and there were few women

388
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Speaker 4: that had a little bit more.

389
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Speaker 3: Power, but the men were in control.

390
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Speaker 4: So the men were in control of the women's bodies

391
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Speaker 4: as well what they needed to do.

392
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Speaker 1: Yeah, the medical emergency in my mind is birth, yes, exactly,

393
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Speaker 1: to the hospital. I mean, people choose.

394
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Speaker 2: To have at home births and that's why. But I

395
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Speaker 2: know when it's their own choice is when happening.

396
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Speaker 3: I agree.

397
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Speaker 4: That's the word is choice, right, right, free will, free

398
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Speaker 4: choice exactly.

399
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Speaker 2: So tell us about some of your early memories, like

400
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 2: what was the day to day life like, how often

401
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,159
Speaker 2: did you interact with outside people?

402
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,479
Speaker 4: Not often at all, so different going back, different times,

403
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 4: going back to how did we support At times the

404
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,120
Speaker 4: men would go out into the world and take worldly

405
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 4: jobs to support their families, and other times but the

406
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 4: women and the children. We were mostly on the compound

407
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:33,919
Speaker 4: and it was up on top of the hill, and

408
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 4: we had this really large area and it was in rural,

409
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Speaker 4: rural New York state, So already we were in rural,

410
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,000
Speaker 4: so already just to get to the you know, the

411
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,120
Speaker 4: local town where there was a you know, a drugstore

412
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,959
Speaker 4: and a supermarket was like, you know, thirty five forty minutes,

413
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 4: so we were already sort of isolated just by nature

414
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 4: where we located.

415
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Speaker 3: I would have.

416
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,439
Speaker 4: Periods of months where I didn't have any access. I

417
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 4: didn't interact with people outside of the cult, especially as

418
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 4: a small child. In the very beginning, some relatives and

419
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 4: grandparents were allowed to come visit once or twice, so

420
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 4: I would sometimes see them, but towards later on that

421
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 4: wasn't even allowed. But yeah, it was very insular. Our

422
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 4: daily activities worked a lot because again, we thought the

423
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 4: world was ending. So the leader was very good at

424
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 4: coming up with the most random, bizarre ideas, business ideas,

425
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 4: or random work ideas. Or he would go out to

426
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 4: a walmut or a kmart and buy hundreds of pieces

427
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 4: of gloves and different sizes and then bring it back

428
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 4: and we'd all have to organize it for him. So

429
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 4: there was a lot of just weird work that was

430
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,919
Speaker 4: constantly going on at his whim and at his whatever.

431
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 2: He decided how many people were in the group when

432
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 2: you were.

433
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Speaker 3: A child, so including children, I would say, there was

434
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 3: only about forty or fifty. But what we did at

435
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,159
Speaker 3: a certain point, we did have this main house that

436
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 3: was like our recovery facility that we were fundraising a

437
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 3: lot of money, so we sort of had to have

438
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 3: this this like recovery space for addicts to come and

439
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 3: get sober. So that was kind of our that was

440
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 3: at the main house there and so sometimes that was

441
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 3: going on as well.

442
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 2: And would outside people come there.

443
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 4: For yes, so that that did bring a stream of outsiders,

444
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,360
Speaker 4: but it was generally people that were had basically been

445
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,719
Speaker 4: they weren't able to get sober anywhere. They had been

446
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,120
Speaker 4: sort of abandoned by the family, by the state, by everything,

447
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 4: and this was their last choice. They didn't a lot

448
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 4: of them weren't there voluntarily. It was their family's last effort.

449
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 4: So they would come and stay in this main house

450
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 4: and members would sponsor them. So that's where the twelve

451
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 4: step aspect of the cult came in, and that's where

452
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 4: we were making this into a much larger facility than

453
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 4: it was and fundraising for it. So that became a

454
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 4: source of income for the old Wow.

455
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 2: And as a girl, I mean, what were you taught

456
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 2: about what your future looked like, or I guess the

457
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: future would end on two thousand.

458
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 1: And What were some of the rules were you. Did

459
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 1: you have to dress a certain way?

460
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 4: Yes?

461
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: What did that look like?

462
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 4: And again I will share with that. But the thing

463
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 4: is is the environment was very erratic and things changed

464
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 4: it when, like our diet changed it. When so one day,

465
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 4: all of the sudden, we were just eating potatoes, and

466
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 4: then other days were so and whenever that happened, there'd

467
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 4: be a big, massive shift. So mostly women, we had

468
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 4: to wear skirts that below our knee.

469
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 3: I used I had very large breasts.

470
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 4: I used to have to and when I started to,

471
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 4: you know, develop, I had to tie my breasts up

472
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 4: because if any man I wasn't allowed to. We were

473
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 4: if a man became aroused by a woman, it was

474
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 4: our fault. So it just our mere existence was a

475
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 4: problem in a sin and that we were groomed.

476
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 3: It was you are.

477
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,239
Speaker 4: Subservient to a man. The man's in charge, so to

478
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 4: get married, and the man will dictate if and when

479
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 4: you have sex. It's all in the man's hand. It

480
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 4: was you only had sex for children, so and you were,

481
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 4: you know, basically serving God, which ultimately serving Sweeney because

482
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 4: he was the only one with direct contact to God.

483
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 2: And did he have visions like he's talking to God.

484
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 2: He's going in his room talking to God and coming

485
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 2: out and being like God told me, now we're eating

486
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: this food.

487
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:18,959
Speaker 4: You know.

488
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 3: He didn't even say God told him that.

489
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 4: It was just it's interesting that you asked this question,

490
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 4: because I'm it was just it was like a fact

491
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 4: that he was God's instrument, Like I never even questioned,

492
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 4: So it would just be like Sweeney said this, and

493
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 4: nobody questioned, nobody asked, nobody said why why are we

494
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 4: doing this now?

495
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 3: It's just like we were.

496
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 4: Like trained, We just went into order and we you know,

497
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 4: implemented whatever it is he said, right, So he didn't

498
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 4: always didn't get necessarily explanations.

499
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 2: Right right. Did you ever see your parents wrestle with

500
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 2: any of the rules or anything they'd been told.

501
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 4: Yes, my mother in particular, And it was it was

502
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 4: cause at the time, you know, when I was very young,

503
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 4: my mother did try to wrestle and she would speak

504
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 4: out sometimes in question, and it got her in a

505
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 4: lot of trouble. And I used to I used to

506
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 4: hate it because it meant that the attention will go

507
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 4: on her that she would get in trouble, that she

508
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 4: would be humiliated, and if she was humiliated, we you know,

509
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 4: I was humiliated.

510
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 3: But it was also that thing in my mother.

511
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 4: I believe that was instilled in me that allowed me

512
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 4: to question and as I got older, started to be

513
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 4: able to see.

514
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 3: So she my mother had a very.

515
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 4: Hard time, very hard time there, and she struggles today

516
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 4: with understanding how she could have possibly ever gotten involved

517
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 4: in the first place, and how she could have You know,

518
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 4: my mom's a very intelligent woman, so she still suffers

519
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 4: to this day that she didn't take that questioning further.

520
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 4: That she didn't she said she she didn't doesn't understand why,

521
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 4: but there's there was something at play there. You know,

522
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 4: we were so insular and you don't have a lot

523
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 4: of contact, and it just becomes your norm and you

524
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 4: just become easily susceptible, I think, to what you're told.

525
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 2: Definitely, with that level of control, it's like, whether consciously

526
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: or subconsciously, designed to shut off critical thinking with that

527
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: amount of isolation from the outside world as well.

528
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: I mean, but I'm impressed that she took you to

529
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: the doctor with the appendix, Yeah, because that shows me

530
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: a little crack in the thinking.

531
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, and she always my mother always was and

532
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 4: my mother was always she always she was always pushing,

533
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 4: pushing the envelope and pushing the limits with them. Yeah.

534
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 4: I think also that's a mother's love. I mean, I

535
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 4: know in some cases and colts that's not the case.

536
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 4: I know some mothers give up their children. So I

537
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 4: guess that doesn't necessarily that's common sense that doesn't apply

538
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 4: in these situations. But I think she saw me dying

539
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 4: and something snapped in her at that point.

540
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 2: Right, Well, that's a pretty extreme circumstance. Did you receive

541
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 2: any kind of education?

542
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 3: So we did have a registered private school as well

543
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 3: that we were in and out of. We did ultimately, Yes,

544
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 3: I had a high school diploma because we were registered,

545
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 3: and we ultimately took the time the state tests. But

546
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 3: you know, we were pulled in and out of school

547
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 3: because the world was ending and it was more important

548
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 3: for us to work on the farm and other projects,

549
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 3: so we didn't we went to school, but there were

550
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,719
Speaker 3: periods of time when we were pulled out of school

551
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: because the leader didn't feel it was necessary.

552
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 2: Work on the farm. So you're so, yeah, tell us

553
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: about that. So was this self sufficient lifestyle.

554
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 4: Yeah they were, Yes, I mean that was the goal,

555
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 4: but we never were fully self sufficient. But we did

556
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 4: have Again, it was this big plot of land, and

557
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,239
Speaker 4: so we were into organic. You know, there were some

558
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,479
Speaker 4: great things eating organically and healthy in that way, and

559
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 4: so we did farm, and we weren't able to fully

560
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 4: live off of that, but that was a big part

561
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 4: of our daily life and of our one of our

562
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 4: businesses as well, and canning and all of that sort

563
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 4: of thing.

564
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 3: Always canning.

565
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 2: Who what cult isn't canning, That's what I want to know.

566
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 4: It's so so it is so interesting though, right because

567
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 4: you start to see these the same exact life. It's

568
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 4: like there must be a cult manual somewhere out there

569
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 4: that they pull from.

570
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 2: I guess when you know the end of the world

571
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 2: is coming, you're preparing for armageddon, and you're like, we

572
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 2: got to have a lot of food.

573
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, you do.

574
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 2: But even even a mainstream Mormons, who you know, I

575
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 2: grew up in a I had a more extreme circumstance

576
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 2: than mainstream Mormonism. But even mainstream Mormonism, there was canning.

577
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,479
Speaker 2: There was planning for Y two K. There was this

578
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 2: sort of anticipation of the Second coming, which is still

579
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 2: going on, but now y two K is not imminent,

580
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: so it's not as right.

581
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was that? What was that like? Were you

582
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: excited for the world to end or were you was

583
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: it more trepidation.

584
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 4: At you know, as a small child, there was fear.

585
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 4: There was excitement, this idea that I was going to

586
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 4: go up and you know, God was going to come

587
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 4: and take us up. But as I got older, no,

588
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 4: and actually I left. I finally I say escape that

589
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 4: that's a little dramatic, but I escaped the when I

590
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 4: was in nineteen ninety nine, and that was a big

591
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 4: risk for me then because I was like, oh my god,

592
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 4: if the world actually ends, yeah, like I couldn't. I

593
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 4: become disillusioned enough that I was like, I don't care,

594
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 4: Like I was aware that that even if it was ending,

595
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 4: that idea that we were the chosen arc was buld.

596
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 4: So but I remember it, that was like it was

597
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 4: it was I did think about that that I thought

598
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 4: it might end. And this is very whisky so scary.

599
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 5: Hello, I'm Robbia Chaudhry. I invite you to join me

600
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 5: every Tuesday for new episodes of Nighty Night Bedtime Stories

601
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 5: to keep you Awake now on podcast one. This new

602
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 5: incarnation of Nighty Night is an anthology of stories that

603
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 5: bring to life classic horror stories, some you're definitely familiar

604
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 5: with and others you'll be hearing for the first time.

605
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 5: Join me as I tuck you into bed with stories

606
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 5: that will leave you sleepless all night long. Get new

607
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 5: episodes of Nighty Night every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts.

608
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 2: At what point in your childhood did you start to

609
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 2: be like, I don't like.

610
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 4: This, Yeah, it's so interesting, and I for me, it

611
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 4: tells me. It's one of the things I discussed in

612
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 4: my book is that here I am. I grew up

613
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 4: in an environment that I really shouldn't know no better

614
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 4: because this is all I knew.

615
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 3: But this is what I believe.

616
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 4: That we all have something inside of us, a knowing,

617
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 4: something that is alive that is stronger than any indoctrination

618
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 4: that can ever be put inside of us.

619
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 3: And it was just a knowing.

620
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 4: And I started as I got there was a lot

621
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 4: of series of events that took place. I got very sick,

622
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 4: and that was a whole other issue because that wasn't

623
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 4: even about the cults. But I was going to take

624
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 4: my I wanted to take my life. And then my

625
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 4: sister became ran off with the man, second man in charge,

626
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 4: so we had the leader, and then he had hierarchy,

627
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 4: and he was quite old, he was in his seventies

628
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 4: at that point, and he had a man that was

629
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 4: running the colts, and he fell in love with my

630
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 4: sister and in the middle of the night left the colt,

631
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 4: left everything, his family, everything with my sister. And the

632
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 4: reaction of our cult leader he came to my parents'

633
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 4: home and brutally beat them to a pulpe. Basically, I

634
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 4: say that, but it was particularly my mother. I came

635
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 4: into our home and he had just gone in a

636
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 4: rage on my parents, and I remember I walked into

637
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 4: the home and I realized, this man that my parents

638
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 4: have put their trust in has just betrayed them, has

639
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 4: taken their daughter, and my parents have just been beaten

640
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 4: for it and punished for this. Something is not right,

641
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 4: and something switched to me at that day, and from

642
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 4: that point on, I started to just I started to

643
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 4: detach from the environment. I started to detach from the

644
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,479
Speaker 4: the teachings that I've been taught, and I started to

645
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 4: look around me and wake up, and I started to

646
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 4: be like this, something is wrong, something is very very

647
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 4: wrong here.

648
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 3: How old were you I was probably twenty twenty one.

649
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 3: I didn't get out of the colt until I was

650
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 3: twenty four. It took me a lot.

651
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 4: I was still very indoctrinated, so even seeing something was wrong,

652
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 4: I had to I still thought the world was evil,

653
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 4: you know. They had this idea also with the addiction

654
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 4: that if we left, we were going to become addicts

655
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 4: and the devil was going to take us. And I

656
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 4: had to really deprogram and I had to really fight

657
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 4: with some of these Now I look back ridiculous belief systems,

658
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 4: but at the time they were the foundation of everything

659
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 4: I was. It was my identity, who I was, what

660
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 4: I believed in, and I was also very I didn't

661
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 4: want I wanted when I left. I wanted to take

662
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 4: people with me, and I wanted to take my family

663
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 4: with me. I didn't want my parents to get beaten

664
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 4: like that again if I left. So there was also

665
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 4: and there were a lot of little children there that

666
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 4: I loved and felt that I loved them more in

667
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 4: ways than their parents because I would find myself protecting them.

668
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 3: And so there was just a lot that.

669
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 4: I had to work through personally in order to even

670
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 4: when I realized this is no longer for me, I

671
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 4: don't want to be here. I didn't want to hurt people,

672
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 4: and I had a lot of people that I loved

673
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 4: that I didn't want to leave, you know, unprotected. So

674
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 4: that was a couple of years before I could actually leave, right.

675
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: It's heartbreaking.

676
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you so prior to age twenty two, I mean,

677
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 2: were you like yearning to go outside of me?

678
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: Boys? Were you?

679
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 3: Yes?

680
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: Did you have dreams?

681
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 4: Yes? Yes, I mean for the little bit, you know,

682
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 4: we would. Again, our access to the outside world was

683
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 4: so limited, but you know, once in a while there

684
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 4: was a you know, we would be assigned to go,

685
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 4: let's say, to Walmart and pick up supplies. We would

686
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 4: sway by, like the TVs were running, and we'd just

687
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 4: stand there staring at ads because to us everything was right.

688
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 4: Because I didn't so you know, it became yes I did,

689
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 4: but I you know, it was programmed that God's going

690
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 4: to choose a husband for me at the right time,

691
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 4: and so you know, I didn't have books and TV

692
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 4: and things that would feed the imaginations exactly exactly. But

693
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm a human being and I had sexual desires.

694
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 4: But that was the other thing is that it was

695
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 4: set up where you were sinful and you had sins,

696
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 4: and they would tell you were so neurotic because you'd

697
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 4: have to take a certain periods of time. We'd have

698
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 4: to take confessions every day, and you would get in

699
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 4: trouble if you didn't have enough sins, and so every

700
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 4: they would get into your mind, well did you did

701
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 4: you think about, you know, a boy, or did you.

702
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 3: Look at somebody?

703
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 4: So everything was so controlled, even in my mind that

704
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 4: I was afraid to even dream because they had control

705
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 4: of my dreams because I didn't even You have to

706
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 4: confess everything, and if you didn't have sins, there were

707
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 4: times when you'd have to stay up all night.

708
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 3: Your parents would be telling you did something wrong when

709
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 3: you didn't.

710
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: So, wow, your sin is complicated not having enough sin?

711
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 3: Yes, wow.

712
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 5: Yeah.

713
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 2: And then if you did have enough sin, would you

714
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 2: still you'd be punished for those sins.

715
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 3: You'd be punished for that as well.

716
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're punished no matter what.

717
00:34:58,719 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 3: Yes, And it.

718
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: Sounds like very physical punishments, like it sounds like the

719
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 1: beatings of your parents got a little bit more intense.

720
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: It sounds like he got a little bit more intense.

721
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 1: But physical was there from the beginning.

722
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 4: Physical was there, like with the children, like corporal punishment.

723
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 4: We had rulers, and it was weird, like they would

724
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 4: take they would strip us naked again and certain children,

725
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 4: the elite children, not so much. I there was a

726
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 4: teacher at the school at our school there when I

727
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 4: went there, and she didn't like me, and so you know,

728
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 4: she would punish me for whatever she wanted and she

729
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 4: would just take me and have all the children stand around,

730
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 4: and then they would strip us naked, which is just

731
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 4: an additional humiliation as a child. You know, you're a

732
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 4: little girl, and you know, I remember she pulled first

733
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 4: my pants and I remember thinking my underwear, please not

734
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 4: my underwear. And then she took my underwear off and

735
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 4: smacks me and had all the children watch.

736
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 3: And that's what they would do.

737
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 4: They would make us watch the discipline, so you know,

738
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 4: or they would have like this. One teacher would always

739
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 4: have me. If she wasn't disciplining me, she would have

740
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 4: me go get the ruler and give it to her.

741
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 4: So that deep humiliation of being part of the very

742
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 4: humiliation that she inflicted on me than I was giving

743
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 4: the instrument to her to give to another child.

744
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 3: So it was very twisted, very twisted.

745
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 4: So yes, to answer your question, children, it was all

746
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 4: about you know, corporal punishment, spankings, punishment, and then the

747
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 4: adults as well. And again that often came in the

748
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 4: form of the leader, who I now realize was drunk,

749
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 4: would just start. He would just come in and be

750
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 4: like somebody's asleep in here, and he would just like roam.

751
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 4: His eyes were bloodshot, and he would just find someone.

752
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 4: Sometimes he would just come up and punch them. You

753
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 4: wouldn't even know why.

754
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 6: He'd walk through them and punch somebody adults, and then

755
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 6: you know, sometimes someone would get up and sometimes other

756
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 6: members would hold them down other times, so you know,

757
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 6: you just never knew and you never.

758
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 4: Knew his mood because we'd have these cult gatherings and

759
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 4: we had like these entertainment sings where we'd have musical

760
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 4: instruments and sing our cult songs and are so strange.

761
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 4: But you know, he would come and sometimes he'd be

762
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 4: in a great mood and dancing and singing, and other

763
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 4: times you'd be in the middle of a song and

764
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 4: all of a sudden you'd hear a bang, and you'd

765
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 4: be over and he'd be on top of someone snacking

766
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 4: them and you have no understanding of why.

767
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: And you couldn't fight back. No, oh yeah, I.

768
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 4: Mean you could, but if you there were times here

769
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 4: and there where somebody would would fight back, and then

770
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 4: you know, everybody would everyone was behind the leader. Then

771
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 4: everyone would come and get the leader would say get

772
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 4: him that. There's a lot of swearing too. We were Christians,

773
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 4: but the words that we used were so vulgar and

774
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 4: just demeaning words like you know, they would call me

775
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 4: a little girl, tell us we were horrors. I didn't

776
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 4: even know what the word horr meant or kunt. One

777
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 4: time the leader was screaming and I won't. I guess

778
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 4: these words are never mind. But they used very vulgar,

779
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 4: vulgar words, and they it was supposedly to wake us up,

780
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 4: like you're so sleeping that they had to shock us

781
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 4: into waking up out of the sleep that we were in.

782
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 4: But you, as children, you would see your parents as well,

783
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 4: So it's just was humiliation throughout. You just never knew

784
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 4: who was and everybody was protecting themselves too, so if

785
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 4: something happened to someone else, you'd want to run and

786
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 4: be on the side of the leader so you didn't

787
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 4: get smacked, right, And people who are always reporting on you,

788
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 4: it felt very you never knew who because everyone was

789
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 4: trying to survive so and trying to get one up

790
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 4: and get to the next status.

791
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 3: So people would be reporting on you and you.

792
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 4: Didn't even know it.

793
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 3: Because that was the other thing.

794
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 4: He had cameras everywhere, Oh a lot of a lot

795
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 4: of our most of our events were like there were

796
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 4: cameras everywhere, and he was on the cameras and the

797
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 4: people videoing all the time.

798
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: That's scary, this is a nightmare, But.

799
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 3: No, it is. It is.

800
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: I mean a culture of fear that sounds so intense

801
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 2: as it is. But then they're watching you on cameras

802
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 2: at all times.

803
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 4: Right, And when he wasn't there, So we'd have these

804
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 4: communal gatherings, and if the leader wasn't there, he would

805
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 4: watch the tape the next day, so.

806
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 3: You didn't know, like and his wife as well.

807
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 4: So if they scanned the audience and they saw like

808
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 4: a child that was crying, the next day that child

809
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 4: and their parents would be brought in for trouble. You

810
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 4: weren't allowed to be a child. You were you were

811
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,479
Speaker 4: you were. You weren't supposed to make noise, you weren't

812
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 4: allowed to do anything. You had to smile all the time.

813
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 4: That was the other thing. If they if you were

814
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 4: walking around and they drove by and you wouldn't have

815
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 4: a smile in your face, you could get in trouble.

816
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I feel like I would never smile

817
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: again after that. Just a chain of rebellion's And it

818
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 2: sounds like like marriages were arranged within the institution.

819
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: Was there like a sexual abuse component to this or

820
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: were you guys left alone in that manner to be

821
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: given to your husband.

822
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 4: So I don't have any recollection of that happening to me,

823
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 4: but I will say that as the cold evolved, generation

824
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 4: after generation, there's been a lot of sexual abuse. So

825
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 4: it makes me wonder that I can't say in this

826
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 4: day my conscious memory that that happened. And so but

827
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 4: you know, it was like the leader married a much

828
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 4: younger woman, his son married my younger woman. And like

829
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 4: these addicts, some of the addicts that would come through

830
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 4: that maybe stayed, didn't matter how well they were, They would,

831
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 4: you know, marry them off to an eligible girl. One

832
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 4: of the girls I think the youngest that got married

833
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 4: off was sixteen, so still underage. So but it was

834
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 4: all tied into this very strict religion, repressed religion where

835
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 4: you know, when sex is terrible and it's it's you know,

836
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 4: you have to obey the man, and it's only for children.

837
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 4: But just by nature, I think when you repress something

838
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 4: so natural, it comes out in strange ways. So it

839
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 4: definitely was rampant in generations past, you know, after me,

840
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 4: So it leaves the question I just don't know.

841
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, And when you say only for children, you mean

842
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: only to create children.

843
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 4: Correct, exactly like you were only allowed to have sex

844
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 4: if with the intent of creating a new life, not

845
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 4: for pleasure. And they had very strict Again, I thank

846
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 4: god never got married off, and so I ended up leaving.

847
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 4: So I don't know. But some of my friends that

848
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 4: were married off, the sex was very strange and they

849
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 4: got into that too, and they controlled that.

850
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 3: And it was not at all.

851
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 4: The women's pleasure had nothing, There was nothing to do

852
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 4: with a woman's pleasure whatsoever.

853
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 2: Of course, why would it right, So what did you

854
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 2: imagine was happening in the outside world, just like a

855
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 2: bunch of sinful people well, you know.

856
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 4: It's funny I believe that, but I also didn't and

857
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 4: I wanted so badly. I wished that I had not

858
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 4: been born into this place. I can remember as a

859
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 4: small child hours sitting I mean, the property was actually beautiful.

860
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 4: It was these rolling hills at the big main house.

861
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 4: I would just sit there and look out, and I

862
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 4: remember thinking, like, there is a whole world out here,

863
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 4: like why am I here? Why did I have to

864
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 4: be born into this situation? And I, yes, I wanted.

865
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 4: I wanted.

866
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 3: I longed to be out of but I longed to

867
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 3: not believe the things I believed as well. But I

868
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 3: did you know, over the course of time, and one

869
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 3: of the cult leader's daughter left and came back, and

870
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 3: I started to see, you know, different people at different

871
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 3: times left the cult and you'd hear something about them,

872
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 3: or those that stayed in the local area when we

873
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 3: were out doing running an errand for the cult and

874
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 3: we saw them, I started seeing, like, these people look happy,

875
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 3: like I don't think the devil. They're possessed by the devil.

876
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 4: So I was I was very you know, committed to

877
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 4: finding a way to get out and proving that I

878
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 4: wouldn't be a bad person if I did, And so

879
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 4: I think that was also part of what helped me

880
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 4: get out.

881
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 3: But yes, I longed, I longed for real life.

882
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's so ironic that you are like two

883
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: hours away from New York City. Yes, yes, yes, Like

884
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: it's just so hard to comprehend.

885
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 2: I know, I'm curious about the like sort of trajectory

886
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 2: of Sweeney the cult leader because you said, maybe did

887
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 2: it got worse over time? He grew more violent over time.

888
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 3: Yes, he grew more violent.

889
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 4: We needed more money, so there was a lot of

890
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 4: you know, illegal things going on to get that money.

891
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 4: He also was getting older and he was drinking a

892
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 4: lot more, and towards the end there he was not

893
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 4: as present. We hardly saw him. He'd sort of be

894
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 4: the ruling the people controlling the cold of that, but

895
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 4: ruling the cold were not him. He was kind of

896
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 4: behind the scenes at that point, and there were a

897
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 4: few people that stepped forward in that role and they

898
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 4: were pretty twisted people. And at least with that individual

899
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 4: stepping forward, that is when a lot of sex abuse occurred.

900
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 4: And he actually, wonder if I can say this has

901
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 4: since been convicted of some serious crimes. Oh wow, yeah,

902
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 4: and so that was who was took over and so

903
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 4: under that rule, and he was young, he was someone

904
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 4: I grew up with.

905
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 3: Under his rule, things got really dark and twisted.

906
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 2: And this I was.

907
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 4: I left just around this time. But what I understand

908
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 4: also after I left, is that Sweeney had begun to

909
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 4: call himself Jesus Christ as well, like he believed he

910
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 4: was himself Jesus Christ. And this younger man that was

911
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 4: now in control was leading was it was pretty sick

912
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 4: things happening.

913
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: It's always amazing to me, how like when the primary

914
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 2: or original cult leader gets old or dies, like there's

915
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 2: somehow always manages to be someone who fills their shoes,

916
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: who's like just as bad or worse than them. I

917
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 2: feel like that happened so much. Was that man was

918
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 2: a new person? Was it a man? The new person?

919
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 4: Was?

920
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 2: The new was his you know, replacement or whatever?

921
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 4: Was he raised by sweet well, he was he was

922
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 4: raised in the Colts, and his father had also been

923
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 4: very high, you know, had been very high up in

924
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 4: the Colts.

925
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 3: He was groomed. He spent pretty much all all his

926
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 3: waking hours with the leader.

927
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 4: Oh really he was married, Yeah, he was married off,

928
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 4: but he was the only one that had direct contact,

929
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 4: and he literally had the control of everyone, everyone's bank accounts, everything,

930
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 4: So by that time it was nobody really had their

931
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 4: own bank account.

932
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 3: Like everything was was.

933
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 4: You were given what you needed, and what you were

934
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 4: needed was decided by the leader and his pack of

935
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 4: leader of ruling class.

936
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: Which makes it that much harder to leave when someone.

937
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: Does want exactly because you have no exactly.

938
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 2: Money, no power.

939
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

940
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a different person from who your sister left with.

941
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 4: That is correct, Yes, okay, and that's a whole nother story,

942
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,439
Speaker 4: and my sisters met with him, and that became that's

943
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 4: a whole there's a whole nother story on that on

944
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,760
Speaker 4: top of that, but that was the yes.

945
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,439
Speaker 2: Wow, okay, So twenty two you see this, you see

946
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: your sister leave and your parents take this horrible beating

947
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 2: and then basically like start your plan, right I do?

948
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 4: I mean? And yes, you know that that was a

949
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 4: turning point. I'd always I'd always something. As I had

950
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 4: gotten older, things just did not feel right. But that

951
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 4: was at that point I remember saying, I'm getting I

952
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 4: don't care what this takes, I'm getting out of here.

953
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 4: And so.

954
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 3: I started to detach.

955
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 4: And one of the things that happened because we were

956
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 4: always running businesses, is that as I got older, I

957
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,720
Speaker 4: learned one of my coping mechanisms, or my survival mechanism,

958
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 4: I should say, was that if I made myself valuable

959
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 4: in the workforce, and you were generating business and of value,

960
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 4: then you sort of got excluded from things and they

961
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 4: kind of turned their head when there were issues with you.

962
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 4: And so I had always been kind of a really

963
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 4: good worker there. And so by the time I was

964
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 4: fifteen sixteen, we had an organic bakery business and at

965
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 4: the time we were actually selling bread to whole foods.

966
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 4: We were actually had a fairly substantial business going, and

967
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 4: I was running our bakery business, and so that kind

968
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 4: of allowed me to start to not have to go

969
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 4: to all the cult gatherings.

970
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:01,839
Speaker 3: I didn't start.

971
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 4: I wasn't you know, I wasn't the one getting in

972
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 4: trouble because I had so much value. I was running

973
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 4: a business that was bringing in money, and so that

974
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 4: also allowed me to kind of separate a little bit.

975
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 4: So I was able to be working and separating from

976
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 4: the day to day, and it gave me time to

977
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 4: kind of observe from the outside, and in the beginning,

978
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 4: I had sort of said, well, I think this is

979
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 4: a terrible place and I don't want to be here,

980
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 4: but I can't leave my parents. I can't have my

981
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 4: parents get beaten again, and I don't want to leave

982
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 4: these little kids that I love dearly. And so for

983
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 4: a while I just was like, I'm just going to

984
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 4: sacrifice my life, I guess, and live here. But I

985
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 4: don't believe this anymore. And so when they would bring

986
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 4: me in at times, because you'd come in and they'd

987
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 4: get you in a room with like the cult leader's

988
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 4: wife would because they had like women against women, and

989
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 4: the men dealt with the men, the women and the women,

990
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 4: but then the men were in control and they would

991
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 4: just start screaming and hit me and hitting me. I

992
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,399
Speaker 4: just remember there was a part of me that was like,

993
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 4: you're not going to get to me anymore. I just

994
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 4: removed myself and I just watched it happening to me

995
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 4: with no feeling, no reaction, no nothing. And that is

996
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 4: what ultimately also infuriated them and got them to the point.

997
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 4: I was in this place where I didn't want to

998
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 4: be there, but I didn't want to leave the people

999
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 4: I loved, and the cult leader's wife brought me and

1000
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 4: I forget what it was. I don't know if my

1001
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 4: skirt was long enough or if I didn't smile for

1002
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 4: some something ridiculous, and she was going at me and screaming,

1003
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 4: and I don't remember she hit me, and she had

1004
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 4: a couple other women that she had set up to

1005
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 4: report on me, that had come into give the report

1006
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 4: on what they had found on me, type of thing,

1007
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 4: and she started screaming at me and she's like, I

1008
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 4: just finally said, I'm sorry, but I don't this is

1009
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 4: not for me.

1010
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 3: I do not believe this anymore.

1011
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 4: Because she was giving me with your a terrible child

1012
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 4: of Christ or going to Hell, all this sort of stuff,

1013
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,399
Speaker 4: and she was so shocked when I said that, she

1014
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,760
Speaker 4: was silent, she didn't say anything, and then she dismissed

1015
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 4: me from that meeting, and about an hour later she

1016
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 4: called me back and she said, I think God spoke

1017
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 4: to us, and I think it's his will for you

1018
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 4: to leave. It doesn't happen, but we think that you're called,

1019
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,240
Speaker 4: you're supposed to go out into the world. And they

1020
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 4: spun it in a way so that it was like

1021
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 4: God's will and I was very special and they just

1022
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 4: needed me to now. They thought that it was God's

1023
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 4: will for me to leave. But I used that to

1024
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 4: my advantage and I was like, well, I'm not going

1025
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 4: anywhere unless every child eighteen over gets the same free

1026
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 4: pass to leave, and my parents aren't going to be touched.

1027
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 4: And I kind of had a list of things that

1028
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 4: and they agreed to it. Yeah.

1029
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: I think they were probably worried that You're disbelief would

1030
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: spread like a disease throughout the community.

1031
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 4: Well that is what happened, because I mean, that's like

1032
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 4: the end story. But I had started to talk out

1033
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:47,879
Speaker 4: and I started to talk because what happened is when

1034
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 4: I detached and it no longer had the power. I

1035
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 4: was fearless because I'm like, they've already done everything to me.

1036
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 4: I already know what this is. There's nothing really to

1037
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 4: be fearful. So they're going to hit me. So they're

1038
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 4: going to do this to me. So then I became untouchable,

1039
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 4: and so I was speaking out and I was telling

1040
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 4: people what I thought and I was disagreeing with things.

1041
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 4: So there was a ripple going on and I was

1042
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 4: definitely a problem, and so I kind of utilized that

1043
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 4: to my advantage that my invitation to leave and a

1044
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 4: few of my friends I was able to get come

1045
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 4: out with me, and I was able to you know,

1046
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 4: I was like, I want to come visit my parents

1047
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 4: and ultimately my mother because my sister had come back.

1048
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 4: That's another story of my mother, my sister, and my

1049
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 4: sister had a little child at the time. Left about

1050
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 4: a year later, and my father stayed for years, so

1051
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 4: there was a separation there.

1052
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 1: But I'm so curious about your first night out.

1053
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's you know, I mean we laughed because I

1054
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 4: came out with two friends and we look back at

1055
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 4: this time and we were just so weird. We did

1056
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 4: not relatable, you know, just I mean everything from our hairstyle.

1057
00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:59,280
Speaker 3: You know, I never waxed.

1058
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 4: I didn't, you know, I'm trying to remember if I

1059
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 4: brushed my teeth. I mean, of course I did, but

1060
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 4: like really like basic hygiene. I felt like was was.

1061
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 4: We were just very strange, but it was. It was

1062
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 4: in the beginning, it was wonderful, like everything, you know.

1063
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 4: We went to the supermarket. I had like a chocolate

1064
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 4: bar for the first time, and we went to McDonald

1065
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 4: It's not that I want to eat at McDonald's now

1066
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 4: at all. But you know, I'd never been to a

1067
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 4: movie theater, so I think that because there were the

1068
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 4: three of us, we had each other, so there was

1069
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:29,399
Speaker 4: a little bit of patting there.

1070
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 3: We were just weird.

1071
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 2: That's kind of amazing that you had two friends, though,

1072
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 2: I mean, like, had you guys kind of been talking

1073
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 2: together and questioning together.

1074
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and I yes, we had.

1075
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 4: And I as soon as I had this meeting with

1076
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 4: the colts leader's wife, and I kind of I knew

1077
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 4: that I was. They were letting me leave without They

1078
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 4: were also letting me leave without the normal guilt of

1079
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 4: your going to hell. They kind of lifted that curse

1080
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 4: on me, and I knew they were going to talk

1081
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 4: to their kids. I called my friends and I was like, listen,

1082
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 4: I'm leaving, like this is our chance. And not all

1083
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 4: of them. Those two friends almost didn't make it with me,

1084
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 4: and I told them I'm going no matter what, like

1085
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 4: come or don't, but I'm leaving. And a few other

1086
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 4: a few other friends didn't come immediately but came afterwards.

1087
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 4: So there was definitely there was a shift. And then

1088
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 4: for a year or two after that, there was a

1089
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 4: large group of people leaving adults as well. So it

1090
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 4: definitely stirred things up a little bit. And again things

1091
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 4: were getting more and more bizarre and erratic.

1092
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 2: And so I think, Yeah, was Sweeney still physically abusing

1093
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 2: people in his seventies, Yeah, because.

1094
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think.

1095
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 4: I mean, I believe he was in the seventies by

1096
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 4: the time I left. Yes, but it was then, you know,

1097
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 4: then the next tier.

1098
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 2: I was more the next guy, yesh.

1099
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 4: But he I mean he was he was actually truthfully,

1100
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 4: he was the one that was mostly hitting people and

1101
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 4: his wife.

1102
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 3: There wasn't that didn't happen.

1103
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 4: I mean it happened here and there amongst those that

1104
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 4: were higher up, but it was normally instigated by Sweeney.

1105
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 4: And if he couldn't smack somebody, he would tell one

1106
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 4: of them too. And he had he was shaking. Now

1107
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 4: I know it's alcohol shakes, but he also always was

1108
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 4: shaking like this right wow.

1109
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 2: Yes, And like, considering it's a community of you know,

1110
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 2: people who are familiar with addiction, did anyone ever be like, huh,

1111
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 2: he's drinking a lot of alcohol?

1112
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 4: Well? No, because it's interesting because I actually people didn't

1113
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,720
Speaker 4: know that because they knew he was doing the mass,

1114
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 4: which whatever, But it was only a small group of

1115
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 4: people that worked in his home because that was the

1116
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 4: other thing.

1117
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 3: They had this big home, and you know, we served him.

1118
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 4: And I actually worked in his home at one point

1119
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,919
Speaker 4: as one of his maids, and so I was aware

1120
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 4: of it, but I was so naive. I just thought

1121
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 4: it was I didn't understand. I thought it was for

1122
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 4: spiritual reasons. I thought it was just for mass. I

1123
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 4: didn't realize how much he was drinking. But just a

1124
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 4: few people very close to himknew, and nobody else in

1125
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 4: the cult new And it wasn't actually until I was

1126
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 4: out and I was in New York on the streets

1127
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 4: walking one day somewhere, and I saw this homeless man

1128
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 4: who was bloodshot with you know, an empty alcohol bottle

1129
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 4: in his hand, and he looked up at me, and

1130
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, I was like, oh my god,

1131
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 4: this is Sweeney's face. This is what I put two

1132
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 4: and two together. But I did not connect with that

1133
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 4: when I was at the Colt, and nobody really did.

1134
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 4: And the small people that were around him, that was

1135
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 4: a secret that he was drinking like.

1136
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 2: That, right, the people in the inner circle. It's amazing

1137
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 2: what so often gets withheld from the rest of the group.

1138
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,839
Speaker 2: That would probably cause people to leave if they knew.

1139
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 2: We talked to one Megan. Do you remember which episode

1140
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:44,720
Speaker 2: this was, But it was where the cult leader actually

1141
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 2: died and people had no idea because his inner circle

1142
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 2: kept it quiet. I believe that it was Guenevere Guenevere Turner. Yes,

1143
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 2: m yeah, it's it's incredible, the stuff like you don't

1144
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 2: realize some of the main, big, giant contradictions that are

1145
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 2: happening within the community. Very few people actually often very

1146
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 2: few people know that it's even happening in the first place.

1147
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 3: Yes, it is fine.

1148
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 4: It would be so interesting to interview those in the

1149
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 4: inner circle to understand what they're right, How they justify

1150
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 4: they're they're like, how they justify that that they know

1151
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 4: that the leader is drinking in my case, but somehow

1152
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 4: turn nigh.

1153
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 3: It's just yeah, I.

1154
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: Mean, it is amazing though, the things the brain, like,

1155
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 2: our brains will hide from us when we're experiencing a

1156
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 2: cognitive distance like that and we believe in something so strongly,

1157
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 2: and we've committed our lives to someone so strongly, like yes,

1158
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,280
Speaker 2: that would mean admitting our whole life is a lie.

1159
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 3: So that is. Yeah, yes, that is actually very true. Yes,

1160
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 3: so I see that.

1161
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to hear more to what Megan was

1162
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 2: bringing up earlier about you know, this sort of period

1163
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 2: where you and your friends were weird. After getting that,

1164
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 2: it just seems, honestly, it seems like a really fun

1165
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 2: movie to watch. Like three former cult members be like,

1166
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 2: what's this?

1167
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, when's the first time you saw New York City?

1168
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 1: Like all of it.

1169
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 4: Right right right?

1170
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 2: What's the show? What's the show? Kimi Shmidt?

1171
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, oh yes, yes, Well, and I had, you know,

1172
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 4: throughout the court, there were moments like we were able

1173
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 4: to visit my grandparents up until I was like a

1174
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 4: young teenager, so I had little moments.

1175
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 3: And my grandparents were.

1176
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 4: New Yorkers, so I've been to New York a few

1177
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 4: times as a child.

1178
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 3: In that situation.

1179
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 4: But when I left the cult, my goal was to

1180
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 4: come to New York that this was like my city.

1181
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 4: I wanted, this is this was my dream when I

1182
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 4: dreamt it was that I would be living in New York.

1183
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 4: So we ended up moving from this place in upstate

1184
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 4: New York to Rhode Island.

1185
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:49,919
Speaker 3: And the reason we moved to Rhode Island.

1186
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 4: Was because at one point in the history of the cult,

1187
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 4: the cult leader had decided that he was wanted to

1188
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 4: get into the fresh fish business, and he moved us

1189
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 4: all to Rhode Island and then up to Aimed because

1190
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 4: the waters were cleaner there. So it was like literally

1191
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 4: the only thing we the only place that we knew

1192
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 4: outside of the colts. So we ended up in Rhode Island,

1193
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,439
Speaker 4: the three of us, and I think I was working.

1194
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 4: I got a job at like working at a deli counter,

1195
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 4: and you know, we just started to navigate through life.

1196
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 4: I mean literally just going to the supermarket, going to

1197
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 4: a movie. We didn't know how to buy a movie ticket,

1198
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 4: we didn't know how to go through uh, you know,

1199
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 4: the McDonald's drive through. I feel like I blocked so

1200
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 4: much of that out too, Like you're asking me, and

1201
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 4: I'm sure there's a lot of funny stories, but you

1202
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 4: know how the mind goes that, it kind of it

1203
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 4: just sort of bypasses the embarrassing moments. But I remember

1204
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 4: like a few times, like we would be invited over

1205
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 4: to someone's house for dinner or for like, and we'd

1206
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 4: show up like with nothing. We didn't realize that you

1207
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 4: bring something, you you know, if you're invited to someone's home,

1208
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 4: you you bring still forget?

1209
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but so the I mean, were you all together.

1210
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 3: We're living together in the house.

1211
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 4: Yes, And you know, we just got very basic jobs,

1212
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 4: you know, just menial jobs. I think worked at like

1213
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 4: you know this Steli camera and I don't remember the

1214
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 4: other jobs. And then but I will say that I

1215
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 4: am very street smart and I'm very I picked up

1216
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 4: very fast, and I within a year, I was like,

1217
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 4: I don't want to be in a small town. I

1218
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 4: want My goal was to get to New York. And

1219
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 4: I ended up going to Boston first and then New

1220
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 4: York and I met some really beautiful people.

1221
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 3: And this is I call them like my angels.

1222
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 4: That I met this one woman and she I told

1223
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 4: her about my life and she understood what I had

1224
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 4: been through and she kind of took me under her

1225
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 4: wing and kind of showed me the ropes of life.

1226
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 4: And I think because of that friendship and because she

1227
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 4: was such a sweet, open, loving, non judgmental woman, I

1228
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 4: learned very fast life. I just I just I was

1229
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 4: always watching everything. I watched everyone. I mean, That's how

1230
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 4: I survived at the cold as well, was because I

1231
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 4: always had to be a step of ahead of every reaction.

1232
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 4: I was always anticipating. I'm sure all of us are,

1233
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 4: you know, the leader and those in charge. So that

1234
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 4: skill set was great for me out in the world

1235
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 4: because I just observed watch TV, picked up styles, picked

1236
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 4: out what people were doing, and it only took me

1237
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 4: a few months to get myself into I think, fairly normalized.

1238
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 4: But the funny thing was was I always wanted to travel,

1239
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 4: so I book I think it was eight months out

1240
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 4: of the cult, and I decided to go to Europe.

1241
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 3: I went to Europe for two weeks. I brought four

1242
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 3: enormous suitcases because.

1243
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 4: I thought that I brought everything. I think I brought

1244
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 4: every little I don't even know. I just remember thinking

1245
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 4: like Europe was going to be like I barely knew

1246
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 4: what the United States was, so I thought Europe was

1247
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 4: like I had to bring every single thing. I just

1248
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 4: remember going around on a two week trip hauling like

1249
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 4: three or four pieces of luggage with me. So that's

1250
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 4: something now because now I'm a world traveler and I

1251
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 4: traveled with a tiny little bag. So for me, that's

1252
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 4: great humiliation that I once upon a time had four

1253
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 4: massive suitcases.

1254
00:59:58,880 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 3: God, I'm just trying to think.

1255
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 4: I mean, we knew. No, there was no pop culture reference.

1256
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 4: People thought we were weird. They just ask us, I

1257
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 4: can see this movie?

1258
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, nope, sure haven't nope. Yeah. What what did

1259
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 1: y'all do on New Year's for two thousand and were

1260
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: you terrified?

1261
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 3: I don't remember.

1262
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 4: I don't.

1263
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: Probably that's great. It wasn't good.

1264
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it probably wasn't traumatic. I was terrified on Why

1265
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 2: two K? Terrified? Yes? Have I not told you this story?

1266
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 4: No?

1267
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I was in a Mormon church dance

1268
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 2: and I was how old was I in nineteen nighty nine?

1269
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 2: I must have been? How old am I?

1270
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 1: Wait?

1271
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 2: Eighty eight twelve? I think I just turned twelve eleven

1272
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 2: or twelve? Okay, And we weren't like in a cult

1273
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 2: situation at this time, but like there have been some

1274
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 2: fear wongering about why two K. And we were at

1275
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 2: a dance and I was looking around as it was

1276
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 2: getting to be the countdown, and I was like, why

1277
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 2: are we acting like everything's okay, the world's about to end?

1278
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 2: We just hear acting like everything's okay, the world's about

1279
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 2: to end, and we counted down, and I was just

1280
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:05,959
Speaker 2: like panicking and panicking and panicking. Then it was fine.

1281
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, well that's weird.

1282
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, Lola. I mean, I wonder if like

1283
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: a big chunk of unconscious deconstruction happened after that night.

1284
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 2: Well, I wonder too. But it wasn't like official church

1285
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 2: doctrine or anything. It was more like be prepared, be prepared,

1286
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 2: be prepared, just in case. But like I had had

1287
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 2: just had that drilled into my head so much, and

1288
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 2: also just nationally there was a panic. I guess internationally

1289
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 2: probably there was just a panic about it. So it

1290
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 2: was just in my head. But it wasn't like my

1291
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 2: leaders were like, for sure, Jesus is coming back on

1292
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 2: January first, you know.

1293
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: Did it? I mean, I wonder if a bunch of

1294
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: people left from the Narrow Road after two thousand or

1295
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 1: was it even still going at them?

1296
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 2: Not me?

1297
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm so sorry. I thought we were speculated on.

1298
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 2: No.

1299
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 4: No, you know I think that No, I don't think

1300
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 4: there were too many people that No, it'd stayed pretty intact. Yeah,

1301
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 4: I mean because that we were we predicted that it

1302
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 4: wasn't a sure thing like the world. What was for

1303
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 4: sure was that, Yes, what was for sure was that

1304
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 4: the world was ultimately ending, and that we were Armageddon

1305
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 4: was coming and we were the chosen ones, and that

1306
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 4: they believed it was a good chance it could happen

1307
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 4: two thousand. But it wasn't like that it's going to happen, right,

1308
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 4: It's just a possibility. So yeah, yeah, so no, there

1309
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 4: was not there was. There was not a bunch of

1310
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 4: mass exodus afterwards.

1311
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 3: It wasn't say like going back.

1312
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:28,959
Speaker 4: You know at this point too, people you know, people

1313
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 4: have been there for so long, like you said, they

1314
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 4: have to they would have to say pretty much their

1315
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 4: whole life was a lie. They financially, they didn't really

1316
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 4: have the freedom. So there was a lot I could

1317
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 4: see why people would burrow in and keep telling themselves

1318
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 4: this was the right thing, because getting out of that

1319
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 4: probably was so daunting that they didn't.

1320
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 3: It was overwhelming, I would imagine, right, did.

1321
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 2: You still ever, did you ever doubt your decision or

1322
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 2: like still have ideations about maybe the church being true?

1323
01:02:58,080 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 3: I never doubted my decision.

1324
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 4: By the time I got to the point where I left,

1325
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 4: there was I did not doubt it. I never looked back,

1326
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 4: and I didn't have any second thoughts on it. However,

1327
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 4: I still had a lot of induction embedded in me,

1328
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 4: and that I mean, to this day, I'm still working

1329
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 4: on that, and I've gone on like a deep, deep

1330
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 4: dive and I've gone back and you know, found.

1331
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 3: The stories and retold the stories and all that sort

1332
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 3: of thing.

1333
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean, I still you know, I still

1334
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 4: was a Christian, and I still believed in God, and

1335
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 4: I was you know, there were a lot of aspects

1336
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 4: of my upbringing that I was trying to uphold out

1337
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 4: here in the world.

1338
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 3: But within a year or two I worked myself through

1339
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 3: most of that.

1340
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 4: But I never ever had second thoughts about leaving, And

1341
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 4: that to me was when I the day I left,

1342
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 4: because there was a voice inside of me, and it's

1343
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 4: a voice that I follow and it's that knowing, that

1344
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 4: voice of wisdom that we all, I believe we're all

1345
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 4: born with. And that was the voice I followed that

1346
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 4: freed me from the cult and not saying that's the

1347
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 4: voice that I always listen to now in my life,

1348
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 4: and it's built a really strong intimate relationship with my

1349
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 4: deep knowing and understanding of who I truly am.

1350
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:09,959
Speaker 3: So no, no second thoughts.

1351
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 1: Amazing, yes, gut instincts we always go back to how

1352
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 1: these cults cut you off from your gut and stinks

1353
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 1: and they do so on purpose, right, And that sounds

1354
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 1: like you got back in touch with yours, which is

1355
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 1: so beautiful and wow. Yes, and now you're working on

1356
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: a book and the title is still to be.

1357
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 4: To be determined. Right now, it's going under the title

1358
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:37,560
Speaker 4: I Remember Now. And the reason for that, it's for

1359
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 4: two reasons. One is is because I believe that all

1360
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 4: of us just forgotten who we are, and that this

1361
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:47,200
Speaker 4: healing journey is a remembering, is connecting back to the

1362
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 4: remembrance of who we truly are. It's also an affirmation

1363
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 4: I remember now, So it's an action, and I'm also

1364
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 4: going through a process of trying to remember truly what

1365
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 4: ultimately happened to me at the cult. So it's a

1366
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 4: culmination of all of the but it's under the umbrella

1367
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 4: of my truth, not my story. And I also work

1368
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,200
Speaker 4: in the somatic psychedelic field as well, because that sort

1369
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 4: of the field that I took that kind of reclaimed

1370
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 4: my truth and who I am, and I have worked

1371
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 4: in that field in terms of healing and really processing

1372
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 4: everything that happened to me. So it's a beautiful way

1373
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 4: as well for those of us that are dealing with

1374
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,960
Speaker 4: deep trauma to really find relief in freedom. So those

1375
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 4: are my projects.

1376
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 2: Naps my sister.

1377
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and you're in New York City as we speak,

1378
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 1: which is just a beautiful yes.

1379
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just yes, I'm here. I was living abroad.

1380
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 4: I was in Indonesia for two and a half years

1381
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 4: and in Mexico. So I just recently came back to

1382
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 4: the States after studying and writing.

1383
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 3: The book and so forth.

1384
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 4: So I'm sort of in between Upstate where my mother

1385
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 4: is she's older now, and the city, and I'm not

1386
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 4: exactly sure where I'll be, but I'm floating around in

1387
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 4: the States at the moment.

1388
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,440
Speaker 2: So amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing your

1389
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 2: story with us.

1390
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you so much for having me on.

1391
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 2: Well, Megan, now I will ask you the question, do

1392
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 2: you think that you would join this church that we

1393
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:11,000
Speaker 2: are calling the Narrow Road?

1394
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think I would be really susceptible to something

1395
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 1: like this. I love communes. I'm you know, sober for now,

1396
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 1: but I'm always falling off the wagons, so some like

1397
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 1: retreat type vibes would be very hopeful for me. It

1398
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: just turned so violent so quickly, but I could see

1399
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 1: myself getting there for sure. I could see myself joining.

1400
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's interesting. It's another example of like sort

1401
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 2: of hippie culture that turned into Christianity. We feel like

1402
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 2: we hear that so much of the time. That's just

1403
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 2: an interesting cultural phenomenon. I've never looked into it to

1404
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 2: see if anyone's like written about it, but I find

1405
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 2: it super fascinating. I don't think this would particularly be

1406
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 2: the type of cult that I would join, but I

1407
01:06:56,440 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 2: absolutely see how it would happen. And also who knows.

1408
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 2: I was talking to my friend the other day who's

1409
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 2: who's in recovery who recently relapsed, and we were just

1410
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 2: talking about how I like wish there was an AA

1411
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:12,240
Speaker 2: for people who didn't necessarily have addiction but just like

1412
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:15,560
Speaker 2: really want community support around whatever they're doing and like

1413
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 2: and and like accountability and checking in with yourself and

1414
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 2: having a sponsor like I guess that's a therapist in theory,

1415
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 2: but I want the like full community, you know, like

1416
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 2: I want AA, but for someone like me who's never

1417
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 2: a drunk before in her life. So if there were

1418
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 2: a community that offered something akin to that, I could

1419
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 2: totally see myself joining.

1420
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you might be describing Alan on I'm

1421
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 1: not sure, but it's kind.

1422
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 2: Of well, that's a few love. I mean, I might

1423
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 2: actually qualify for Ellana, but I don't know that the

1424
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 2: average person would.

1425
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's you know, there's one for everyone. I assure you.

1426
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 2: I did go to one Debtor's anonymous meeting and then

1427
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 2: one under Earner's anonymous and they were not for me.

1428
01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 2: Not for me, yeah, yeah, but I see how they

1429
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 2: help people absolutely. All right, Well that's it for now.

1430
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 1: That's it for now, but y'all, thank you so much

1431
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 1: for listening, and as always, remember to follow your gut,

1432
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: watch out for red flags.

1433
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 2: And never ever trust trust me.

1434
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 1: Bye.

1435
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 2: Trust Me as produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and

1436
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

1437
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:25,839
Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy Para.

1438
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1439
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1440
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

1441
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:36,520
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1442
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 2: I'm Oola Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1443
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1444
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:44,559
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1445
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word