Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to okay f Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Bunker. You know, folks,
Speaker 1: it's been a day or so since the testimony of
Speaker 1: Miss Lady Ruby and her daughter sha Moss, and I
Speaker 1: have to tell you that it has been kind of
Speaker 1: marinating in my soul, the pain that we heard in
Speaker 1: those women's voices, the trauma that Donald Trump, as President
Speaker 1: of the United States lauded over them. I can't imagine
Speaker 1: that we are living through a time where a president
Speaker 1: of the United States uses his bully pulpit and his
Speaker 1: power to target civilians. And I don't think that we
Speaker 1: are wrapping our minds around the precedent that Donald Trump
Speaker 1: has set and up until this point, right, all we
Speaker 1: are doing right now is hearing about the criminal behavior.
Speaker 1: It is not being prosecuted right It is being laid
Speaker 1: out in an evidentiary fashion for the world to see.
Speaker 1: But I don't think that we are really grasping that
Speaker 1: if Donald Trump is not held accountable for the crimes
Speaker 1: that he's committed, not only against Miss Lady Ruby and
Speaker 1: her daughter Shae Moss, against Raffensberger, against you know, all
Speaker 1: of us as citizens of these United States until we
Speaker 1: understand the consequences of turning into I don't know, let's
Speaker 1: say hungry. You know, Fox News's new favorite satellite place
Speaker 1: to have Tucker Carlson air his shows from. Let's think
Speaker 1: about other areas like, oh, I don't know, Russia, there
Speaker 1: are other other places that they love to broadcast from.
Speaker 1: What it means to have a president be able to
Speaker 1: wield that type of power and against citizens and have
Speaker 1: no consequences. What does the future look like? You know,
Speaker 1: you always hear about the right wanting to talk about
Speaker 1: free speech as a way to weaponize their language and
Speaker 1: their language of violence against marginalized people. Well, I don't
Speaker 1: foresee having the ability to have significant freedom of speech
Speaker 1: when you can be targeted killed because the president of
Speaker 1: the United States doesn't like what you say and decides
Speaker 1: then to make you a target. And people can say, well, oh,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump didn't actually say go and storm the capital. No,
Speaker 1: he just said everything else, but that Donald Trump by
Speaker 1: virtue of putting a target on Lady Ruby and her
Speaker 1: daughter basically said how dare you? How dare you decide
Speaker 1: to volunteer for your community to be an elector during
Speaker 1: a time of a pandemic, How dare you? Because the
Speaker 1: only people that can be trusted are the criminals that
Speaker 1: he surrounds himself with, making an example of people like
Speaker 1: the two of those women, so that others that think
Speaker 1: to themselves, maybe I too would like to volunteer, will
Speaker 1: think twice and so that instead you have what people
Speaker 1: like the Proud Boys and the oath Keepers and other
Speaker 1: white supremacist with their AAR fifteen standing at our poll places.
Speaker 1: Is that what the future of America looks like? Well,
Speaker 1: it is, frankly and less once and for all we
Speaker 1: rid ourselves, not only of Donald Trump, but of Trump
Speaker 1: is a you know, I keep listening to reporters interview
Speaker 1: Republicans and as if they're like normal people with just
Speaker 1: a conservative ideology. These are people that believe the big lie,
Speaker 1: that are part of the cult right, that believe that
Speaker 1: Donald Trump did no wrong, should not have any accountability,
Speaker 1: and that this is the future of our democracy. That
Speaker 1: you can just cry foul because you don't have policies
Speaker 1: or a platform that align with the majority of people,
Speaker 1: and so if the people choose not to elect you,
Speaker 1: then you can just throw up your hands and say, oh,
Speaker 1: this is fraudulent. It's not. Your platform is bogus, So
Speaker 1: it is to me. You know, you would think that
Speaker 1: there would be more than two Republicans that would actually
Speaker 1: stand up. You would think that as Mike Pence his
Speaker 1: own life was threatened, that he would throw his full
Speaker 1: weight behind our democracy. But he's a tepid piece of
Speaker 1: shit right, just like the rest of them. But I
Speaker 1: just want us to really understand that if not for
Speaker 1: the handful of people, brave people who decided to not
Speaker 1: go along with the President of the United States's scheme
Speaker 1: to defraud the American people, we would be in a
Speaker 1: completely different place right now. Now. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: say that the place that we're in is great, because
Speaker 1: it's sure as fuck as not. But imagine what would
Speaker 1: have happened if Mike Pence had decided that he was
Speaker 1: going to go along with Donald Trump, that he was
Speaker 1: going to decertify the election for Biden and just institute
Speaker 1: Donald Trump as president. Remember, we had already had a
Speaker 1: six to three Supreme Court. So if you think back
Speaker 1: to two thousen and who actually decided that election, it
Speaker 1: was not the American people, it was the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump was thinking ahead. The things that I think
Speaker 1: that are missing in terms of these hearings that are
Speaker 1: taking place right now is the fact that this was
Speaker 1: not something that was cooked up in November. It wasn't
Speaker 1: cooked up in December. It was fucking cooked up well
Speaker 1: before the first ballot was even cast. Go back to
Speaker 1: the first utterances of Donald Trump saying that the only
Speaker 1: way that he's going to lose this election is if
Speaker 1: it's stolen. Go back to that. That is when Donald
Speaker 1: Trump began to devise the plan to defraud the American people.
Speaker 1: And now we look, we look at actually the human
Speaker 1: cost of that ill faded plan. And I say ill
Speaker 1: faded because it didn't succeed this time, but without prosecution
Speaker 1: by the Department of Justice, it will succeed the next time,
Speaker 1: you know. Coming up next my conversation with the author
Speaker 1: of the book The Case for Cancel Culture, Ernest Owens,
Speaker 1: and Ernest and I will get into what I think
Speaker 1: is a really important conversation where he believes that cancel
Speaker 1: culture is used as a democratic tool by the oppressed
Speaker 1: to hold those that have power right the privilege of
Speaker 1: whiteness to be able to skirt the law. So what
Speaker 1: else is left for people to do we unpack this,
Speaker 1: and I ask him questions about, you know, how is
Speaker 1: the useful way to cancel somebody, And he's just like, well,
Speaker 1: if you're Elon Musk, if you're Donald Trump, and you've
Speaker 1: been able to live above the law, exists in the clouds.
Speaker 1: The only way to get rid of somebody like you
Speaker 1: is to use the power of our social consciousness and say,
Speaker 1: this person has a scarlet letter. That hasn't been done
Speaker 1: enough with Donald Trump. And I don't think that we
Speaker 1: will see even a crack in the Maga dome until
Speaker 1: and unless this Department of Justice goes after not only
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, but every single person around Donald Trump and
Speaker 1: takes them down. We continue to say each and every
Speaker 1: week on this show that democracy hangs in the balance.
Speaker 1: I can't express to you enough that fact. We're seeing
Speaker 1: Supreme Court cases file one by one, not even chip
Speaker 1: away right, not even claw away, but hack away at
Speaker 1: our constitution, at the separation between church and state. Because
Speaker 1: guess what new case by the Supreme Court. Guess where
Speaker 1: your tax dollars are going to find religious schools? Because
Speaker 1: the core of the Republican Party has always wanted to
Speaker 1: defund public education. Well, So now, if state money needs
Speaker 1: to go to religious institutions that you decide to send
Speaker 1: your kids to as opposed to the public schools, who
Speaker 1: do you think is going to be affected? Friends, Each
Speaker 1: and every day becomes darker here. And the mustard seed
Speaker 1: of light and hope that we are holding onto is
Speaker 1: that while Merrick Garland is often the fucking Ukraine, that
Speaker 1: he's still paying attention to what is happening in this country.
Speaker 1: And I say that not because we don't want to
Speaker 1: support Ukraine, but if I have to make a dischoice
Speaker 1: between their democracy or hours, I want Hours protected first,
Speaker 1: because there's no way to protect other countries if America falls.
Speaker 1: That's just the reality. We saw it at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the Trump administration when he was pulling out of
Speaker 1: global agreements and task for send groups. So if America
Speaker 1: is no longer a democracy and we leave a vacuum,
Speaker 1: what do you think moves into place? So coming up next, friends,
Speaker 1: the author of the book The Case for Cancel Culture,
Speaker 1: Ernest Owens, and our conversation about how we use cancel
Speaker 1: culture as a way to regain power that has been lost.
Speaker 1: It's no secret that the news is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully,
Speaker 1: there's The Bituation Room podcast hosted by comedian and commentator
Speaker 1: Francesca free Erntini for a lighter take on the heavy stuff.
Speaker 1: Each week, The Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts,
Speaker 1: and activists to break down the issues in a way
Speaker 1: that won't just leave you crying under a weighted blanket.
Speaker 1: Get The Bituation Room on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and
Speaker 1: streaming on YouTube and Twitch. Get a behind the scenes
Speaker 1: look at Comedy Central's The Daily Show on Beyond the Scenes,
Speaker 1: an original podcast from the Daily Show with Trevor Noah.
Speaker 1: Every week, host Roy Wood Junior goes deeper with the
Speaker 1: notable guests and experts from the Emmy Award winning series. Together,
Speaker 1: they use comedy to tackle current topics from gentrification to
Speaker 1: gun laws and take a closer look at how and
Speaker 1: why these topics matter. Listen to Beyond the Scenes from
Speaker 1: The Daily Show with Trevor Noah on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes
Speaker 1: every Tuesday. Folks, I am very happy to welcome to
Speaker 1: woka F for the very first time, Award winning journalists
Speaker 1: Ernest Owens, whose upcoming book the case for cancel culture,
Speaker 1: how this democratic tool works to liberate us. All join Ernest.
Speaker 1: It is great to have you on wokea f Cancel
Speaker 1: culture is a word, a phrase that has been thrown around.
Speaker 1: My God, I don't know, probably in my recollection the
Speaker 1: beginning of the Trump administration. There was literally just a
Speaker 1: piece this week in I want to say, It's New
Speaker 1: York magazine talking about how cancel culture is detrimental to
Speaker 1: high school students and what it means and how it's devastating.
Speaker 1: So I want to hear from you. Why is cancel
Speaker 1: culture in your opinion, a good thing? Well, thank you
Speaker 1: for having me on. I think for starters, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people have used council culture in the
Speaker 1: wrong way. The term. I think that for some people,
Speaker 1: those who are privileged and have power, it's a dog
Speaker 1: whistle to divorce themselves from accountability, and that what has
Speaker 1: happened is is that you know, in my book, I
Speaker 1: talk a lot about the history of council culture, Like
Speaker 1: before it was council culture, it was political correctness. Before
Speaker 1: its political correctness, it was well before it was we
Speaker 1: got after political correctness, it was call out culture, and
Speaker 1: it's been all of these other terms. But if we
Speaker 1: actually look at who's been using those terms and when
Speaker 1: do they come into play, it's often by those with power.
Speaker 1: It's often those who are are privileged in some type
Speaker 1: of way, and it's often used as a way to
Speaker 1: try to deflect attention from those who've been afflicted, those
Speaker 1: who are marginalized. And so I think that if we
Speaker 1: if we actually look at what counsel culture is actually
Speaker 1: doing and what people are trying to accuse it of,
Speaker 1: we find that those who are being accused of counseling
Speaker 1: people often those who've been afflicted, who have been done
Speaker 1: in a wrong way, who's been abused, and other things,
Speaker 1: and that it's actually the device that is used by
Speaker 1: the oppressed to actually act out in ways that the system,
Speaker 1: the justice system, other systems couldnot address, you know. So
Speaker 1: I think that in that way, if we look at
Speaker 1: counsel culture as a tool by the marginalized to address
Speaker 1: things the powerful was done to them, that is in
Speaker 1: itself a good thing. So let me ask you this,
Speaker 1: you know, because one of the I guess one of
Speaker 1: the most problematic sides of cancel culture has been are
Speaker 1: we learning anything those people right? When we talk about
Speaker 1: accountability because I talk about accountability a lot on WIKA app,
Speaker 1: particularly holding white sis hetero men who are often in
Speaker 1: power accountable for their wrongdoing, whether it is sexual harassment,
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, undermining our democracy, criminal behavior in
Speaker 1: any so fashion. Is there a learning that happens or
Speaker 1: is it just a fear? So I won't say this thing,
Speaker 1: but I still believe this thing, like is there an
Speaker 1: ability to learn from bad behavior if people are just canceled? Like,
Speaker 1: is there any is there any redemption? I guess is
Speaker 1: the question or is it to have a larger conversation
Speaker 1: about the wrongdoing. I think that this has been going on,
Speaker 1: like for starters. I want to be clear, cancel culture
Speaker 1: is not a new phenomenon. You know, this is around
Speaker 1: for the beginning of time. And so when we say
Speaker 1: people are canceled, are people really canceled? Right? Are people
Speaker 1: actually forever forbidden? And in those cases where we're asking
Speaker 1: that question about redemption and things, that's a larger conversation
Speaker 1: about the justice systems that be and society within. I
Speaker 1: think it's up to the individual who was in that
Speaker 1: situation if they should But I think oftentimes I'm very
Speaker 1: worried about considering what's for the offender rather than considering
Speaker 1: those who have been afflicted. Because that story that you're
Speaker 1: talking about that's in the cut from New York magazine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: time and my opinion victim blaming. It's been a lot
Speaker 1: of time trying to empathize with those who do wrong,
Speaker 1: and what we forget in these conversations that while we're
Speaker 1: quick to jump into, you know, well, what about the
Speaker 1: consequences that person did that thing, we do ignore the
Speaker 1: conversation on accountability. I think that from accountability, if these
Speaker 1: things are done in the order to which they are,
Speaker 1: learning can come from those things. Resolution can come from
Speaker 1: those things. But because we're in society that is so
Speaker 1: scared right to hold people actually accountable, we oftentimes are
Speaker 1: answering asking questions that could be answered if we actually
Speaker 1: went through the process. So I think, you know, actually,
Speaker 1: did you know, call people out, did address these issues?
Speaker 1: If people acknowledge their wrongdoing, if people actually face whatever
Speaker 1: consequences they were in those in that process, learning is
Speaker 1: happening there right. People are understanding what they did wrong
Speaker 1: and why they did it right. I think there's a
Speaker 1: lot that can be learned in the process within the self.
Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that had pissed me
Speaker 1: off at the beginning of the Trump administration and m
Speaker 1: was hearing people his Trump is his maga. People say
Speaker 1: that they love Donald Trump because he just tells it
Speaker 1: like it is. There's no political correctness, there's no whatever.
Speaker 1: He's just going to be as misogynistic, as ableist, as
Speaker 1: you know, racist, as all of these things, and to them,
Speaker 1: that's authenticity. What is your pushback to that? Because there
Speaker 1: has been what I feel like, is this progression or
Speaker 1: actually regression to just vitriol, nastiness and couching that as
Speaker 1: being authentic, right, And it's not. But that's what that's
Speaker 1: what the right has co opted. If you're if the
Speaker 1: if if we want to say that the political left
Speaker 1: is supposedly about inclusion, right, then the political right is
Speaker 1: has made their case for exclusion. So they're gonna they're like,
Speaker 1: we don't have to use people's pronouns, we don't have
Speaker 1: to you know, speak kindly to other people, because that's
Speaker 1: not I'm not going to be forced to political correctness, right,
Speaker 1: So what is your pushback to that? Well, for starters,
Speaker 1: I think that those levels of luxuries that of ruteness. Right,
Speaker 1: there's a luxury that that is a privilege. There's a
Speaker 1: privilege to be condescending and rude in that type of way.
Speaker 1: And that's a luxury to the powerful, right because they
Speaker 1: don't have to have the same moral code or consequences
Speaker 1: everything people do. One of the things that I talk
Speaker 1: about in my book is that I argue that everyday
Speaker 1: people don't get canceled. That if you say, for example,
Speaker 1: something racist at your job and you lose your job,
Speaker 1: you weren't canceled. You were held accountable to the code
Speaker 1: of conduct that you agreed to when you signed that contract, right,
Speaker 1: And I think that's what we're missing here, is that
Speaker 1: powerful people, super rich people, the Harvey Wine seems of
Speaker 1: the old. Those individuals are the ones that oftentimes can
Speaker 1: make the rules and break the rules and behaving frits
Speaker 1: and have all the power, right, so they're not held
Speaker 1: to the same standards and laws and rules that the
Speaker 1: rest of us do. So that is why people have
Speaker 1: to arguably cancel them, because there is no other way
Speaker 1: to hold them accountable. And so what we've seen is
Speaker 1: that the most powerful, most privileged individuals, right, white cis
Speaker 1: had men, These real big Republicans on the right that
Speaker 1: have all this political influence is that they try to
Speaker 1: make it seem like we're all on the same playing field,
Speaker 1: that what they're doing anyone else can do. But we
Speaker 1: see that other people do what they do, they don't
Speaker 1: get the same types of privileges and consequences. See if
Speaker 1: if I or a group of white people you know,
Speaker 1: just aside to go to their burger king because they
Speaker 1: didn't like the hiring of a boss or the promotion
Speaker 1: of a new boss, and they went to that burger
Speaker 1: king and tore it down and had an insurrection at
Speaker 1: burger king, they would all be immediate going the JETL
Speaker 1: versus a former president inciting and now debating whether or
Speaker 1: not criminal charges we filed, those are not the same.
Speaker 1: Those are not the same situations. And so I want
Speaker 1: to explain to people that to me, council culture is
Speaker 1: about a power dynamic shift. It's about those who can't
Speaker 1: be held accountable in any other way other than a
Speaker 1: collective force of action that caused them out. People are
Speaker 1: not creating social media campaigns to call out folks that
Speaker 1: no one don't know or don't hold any power. And
Speaker 1: yet the problem is is that a lot of times
Speaker 1: white people and their white guilt makes them seem like
Speaker 1: there's a target on their back, when in reality, the
Speaker 1: target is on anyone with powers back. And so in
Speaker 1: some cases that do mean white sis head men like Trump,
Speaker 1: and in some cases it can mean a comedian like
Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle, who is one of the richest, most well
Speaker 1: known comedians in the in the planet. Like that is
Speaker 1: what people have to understand. It's a real power dynamic.
Speaker 1: Race do influence, its gender influences, its sex orientation influences,
Speaker 1: but it's really about power. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people want to believe that they have equal amounts
Speaker 1: of power to those of Trump, but that's just not true.
Speaker 1: You know, we watch at least I was watching the
Speaker 1: fourth installment of the of the Insurrection hearings, right and
Speaker 1: just you know, for the example, listening to um, you know,
Speaker 1: miss Lady Ruby and her daughter Shame Moss, two black
Speaker 1: women who were targeted by the President of the United
Speaker 1: States and literally have lost their name, have lost their businesses,
Speaker 1: have lost their so have lost their ability to live
Speaker 1: free from violence, right, whether that be verbal or physical.
Speaker 1: And as I was watching that hearing and I'm saying
Speaker 1: to myself, the President of the United States used his
Speaker 1: platform to target citizens who were doing nothing other than
Speaker 1: their civic duty right to help out their county, Fulton
Speaker 1: County and Georgia in the midst of a pandemic. And
Speaker 1: I said to myself, why didn't we at that time
Speaker 1: have a conversation about power, right and the abuses of power?
Speaker 1: Because to your point, you're absolutely right. I think that
Speaker 1: when we are having conversations about cancel culture, those of
Speaker 1: us that are using it as a tool right to
Speaker 1: hold people accountable, I think that we're not couching that
Speaker 1: conversation in power. We're always talking about it. We're coming
Speaker 1: from the defense as opposed to let me talk about
Speaker 1: it where you're from, where you're situating your book. You
Speaker 1: know the case for cancel culture to say no, no, no,
Speaker 1: Like if we're talking about an Elon Musk, if you're
Speaker 1: talking about a Donald Trump, you're talking about multi billionaires
Speaker 1: and multimillionaires that literally can buy and sell whomever whatever
Speaker 1: they want, right, and they are seen as like a
Speaker 1: product in that way, there is no other choice but
Speaker 1: to deny these people the oxygen in the room. So
Speaker 1: Donald Trump being canceled from Twitter. Was was a safety mechanism, right,
Speaker 1: It was about taking back what little power? So, how
Speaker 1: do you think, Ernest, that we how do you think
Speaker 1: that we shift these conversations? How do we how do
Speaker 1: we reclaim the purpose of actually holding power accountable? Because powered,
Speaker 1: because I have been I've been tweeting this for the
Speaker 1: past week. White men are never gonna hold white men
Speaker 1: in power. Ain't gonna hold white men in power accountable.
Speaker 1: That is not who the systems were created for. Right,
Speaker 1: And so how do you think that we reclaim this
Speaker 1: tool and talk about it from a space that actually
Speaker 1: has it expressed as what it is, which is a
Speaker 1: reclamation of power that has always been absent from those
Speaker 1: that are oppressed? How would they read my book like
Speaker 1: like I wrote this book because I've been in those experiences.
Speaker 1: I've covered them in my journalism career, and they've always
Speaker 1: shown up and manifested in different ways. Until your point,
Speaker 1: It is about number one, telling everybody one take a breath,
Speaker 1: Calm down. Everyday people, everyday working class people. We're not
Speaker 1: the target of counseling. We're not the ones that are
Speaker 1: canceling each other having an argument, having a disagreement, having
Speaker 1: a difference of opinion is not counseling. We need to
Speaker 1: look at who is. Always tell people that when you
Speaker 1: see the most powerful people on the left and the
Speaker 1: right agreeing over an issue together, that means that they
Speaker 1: want the rest of us not to pay attention. When
Speaker 1: you can see Andrew Cuomo saying they come on, and
Speaker 1: when you can see Donald Trump, you know, banning counseling,
Speaker 1: talking about counsel culture. Why do what do these people
Speaker 1: have in common? They all have power, they all have privilege.
Speaker 1: And sometimes what we've done is we've let counsel culture
Speaker 1: become a political issue of left versus right. It's not
Speaker 1: a blue issue, it's not a red issue. This is
Speaker 1: a bipartisan issue with the powerful people have agreed that
Speaker 1: they don't like black power, they don't like counsel culture.
Speaker 1: Let's take the word. Let's say let's let's take counsel
Speaker 1: culture out and say accountability. I bet you for every
Speaker 1: situation where these people have yelled that they don't like
Speaker 1: counsel culture, replace the world with accountability and it's the
Speaker 1: same effect. And who are they doubling down on women,
Speaker 1: black and brown people, queer people, trans people, poor people.
Speaker 1: It's something to be said that there's a David and
Speaker 1: Golia of dynamic here. And I want everyday people to
Speaker 1: recognize that counsel culture is a tool that scares the
Speaker 1: powerful people into submission to be more accountable in ways
Speaker 1: they were not. My book talks about how before everyday
Speaker 1: people get to the point of counseling, there's a thousand
Speaker 1: things we do before things go from zero to one hundred,
Speaker 1: and no one ever acknowledges that that there was conversations,
Speaker 1: There was simple requests, and then when those were ignored,
Speaker 1: people had to hit the streets. People had to then
Speaker 1: call people out. I think people have to recognize that
Speaker 1: it's not just some one day people wake up and
Speaker 1: choose violence. It's that that is oftentimes the only resort
Speaker 1: they have after they've tried everything else. And history has
Speaker 1: shown us that look at what they're calling counsel culture.
Speaker 1: They called Black Lives Matter counsel culture. They called me
Speaker 1: to counsel culture. But did me to not give women
Speaker 1: an opportunity and a voice in a platform to share
Speaker 1: their stories to hold these violent men accountable? Did Black
Speaker 1: Lives Matter not create a racial uprising and reckoning for
Speaker 1: white people? In this country. Why are we shaming and
Speaker 1: condemning the very things that have liberated people and have
Speaker 1: given these people free speech and the same First Amendments
Speaker 1: that white people have used and abused for centuries. It's
Speaker 1: a double candle, and let's be very clear, everybody's counseling
Speaker 1: each other. We're not gonna sit up and act like
Speaker 1: Jerry Falwell wasn't out here trying to cancel the Teletubbies.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna sit up here and act like the
Speaker 1: Dixie Chicks weren't canceled. We're not trying to act like
Speaker 1: there was not islamophobia and canceling of Muslim communities during
Speaker 1: nine to eleven. Like the same people out here talking
Speaker 1: about religious freedom are the same people that use that
Speaker 1: to dictate how they've canceled books in communities, Like this
Speaker 1: is a hypocrisy, Like they're trying to they're trying to
Speaker 1: counsel us and use the very tools that we've done
Speaker 1: to hold them accountable to now weaponize that against us
Speaker 1: to suppress us. It's a big hypocrisy. And I just
Speaker 1: want everyday people to recognize that there's nothing to fear,
Speaker 1: recount the culture that this is a term that I
Speaker 1: am reappropriating. I don't want to call it accountability culture.
Speaker 1: I don't want to call it anything. I want to
Speaker 1: embrace this term because there's power in the term. Because
Speaker 1: they're scared, because the world is getting browner, the world
Speaker 1: is getting woker, the world is starting to recognize things
Speaker 1: that they used to be able to turn off and
Speaker 1: shut down. What do you hope, Ernest? My last question
Speaker 1: for you, what do you hope that people take from
Speaker 1: your book? What? What what tools do you hope and
Speaker 1: what do you envision after folks read read your book
Speaker 1: that they take from it. I want there to be
Speaker 1: a real reshifting of the narrative around holding people accountable.
Speaker 1: I want people to stop victim blaming. I hope that
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't automatically this gut reaction that
Speaker 1: every person has, or at least we're seeing on social
Speaker 1: media that people are like, oh, I don't want to
Speaker 1: say that because I'm want to get canceled. That. It
Speaker 1: reminds me of like during Me Too, where people are saying,
Speaker 1: what will happen? Will men will me to make men,
Speaker 1: you know, rethink everything they do. No, because I shout
Speaker 1: shod it right? It should right? But also the department.
Speaker 1: It's like people who've been practicing etiquette and practicing decent
Speaker 1: behavior or trying to are not the people that's on
Speaker 1: the chopping block, like these people. Like we have to
Speaker 1: understand that we as a society, especially in America, always
Speaker 1: feel like when people do problematic things, they're mistakes. We're
Speaker 1: quick to believe that all of these things happening are
Speaker 1: mistakes and people are innocent, and it's like own, what
Speaker 1: was them? They made that mistake, they caused that insurrection,
Speaker 1: They said that very racist thing on national television. It
Speaker 1: was such a mistake. Oh my goodness, Joe Rogan said
Speaker 1: the N word several times. What a mistake. These are
Speaker 1: not mistakes, Come on, These are a real abuses that
Speaker 1: cause harm. So I hope that when people read this
Speaker 1: book and see all the case studies and examples and
Speaker 1: interviews I do, that they'll take a step back and say,
Speaker 1: you know what, that person deserved that consequence. I can
Speaker 1: understand why people did what they're do. This community had
Speaker 1: no other choice. People were put in a position to
Speaker 1: have to make these decisions because there was no other way.
Speaker 1: And we start to reshift the conversation and not looking
Speaker 1: at how to redeem and heal problem with people, but
Speaker 1: how to better protect defend those who've been afflicted that
Speaker 1: when they read this book, they say, you know what,
Speaker 1: this is gonna make me think about ways that I
Speaker 1: can show up to help the trans community. This is
Speaker 1: going to help me be a better advocate for women issues.
Speaker 1: This is going to help me think twice before I
Speaker 1: play Devil's Advocate and conversations about race. I hope that
Speaker 1: this is going to create a cultural reset on how
Speaker 1: we talk about accountability in this country because the people
Speaker 1: out here it's fighting for our democracy, our rights, o
Speaker 1: our livelihood. Those people this book is dedicated to them.
Speaker 1: I dedicate this book to those people, and I hope
Speaker 1: that we don't forget them in these conversations. Ernest, let
Speaker 1: me tell you something. I hope that folks will run,
Speaker 1: not walk, to go out and buy your book because
Speaker 1: I think that we need it at this time. I
Speaker 1: think that we need you know as because what we
Speaker 1: are seeing it is the power grab right between the
Speaker 1: oppressed and the oppressor. And what did you know, what
Speaker 1: have so many philosophers said is that no one relinquishes
Speaker 1: power right. It has to be taken right and So
Speaker 1: if we allow them to dictate the narrative, if we
Speaker 1: allow them to co opt and weaponize, to use your
Speaker 1: word to weaponize accountability, then we continue to lose. And
Speaker 1: so I think that your book is a going to
Speaker 1: be that tool that is needed at this time. So Ernest,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for making the time to join
Speaker 1: woke f folks. The book is the case for cancel culture,
Speaker 1: how this democratic tool works to liberate us all. Get
Speaker 1: it now at Amazon and everywhere that books are sold.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you, Arnes, Thank you, Thank you. The Damage
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Speaker 1: That is it for me today, Dear friends on Woke
Speaker 1: app as always, Power to the people and to all
Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.
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