1 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to okay f Daily with 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Bunker. You know, folks, 3 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: it's been a day or so since the testimony of 4 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: Miss Lady Ruby and her daughter sha Moss, and I 5 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: have to tell you that it has been kind of 6 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: marinating in my soul, the pain that we heard in 7 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: those women's voices, the trauma that Donald Trump, as President 8 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: of the United States lauded over them. I can't imagine 9 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: that we are living through a time where a president 10 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: of the United States uses his bully pulpit and his 11 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: power to target civilians. And I don't think that we 12 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: are wrapping our minds around the precedent that Donald Trump 13 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: has set and up until this point, right, all we 14 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: are doing right now is hearing about the criminal behavior. 15 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: It is not being prosecuted right It is being laid 16 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 1: out in an evidentiary fashion for the world to see. 17 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: But I don't think that we are really grasping that 18 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: if Donald Trump is not held accountable for the crimes 19 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: that he's committed, not only against Miss Lady Ruby and 20 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: her daughter Shae Moss, against Raffensberger, against you know, all 21 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: of us as citizens of these United States until we 22 00:01:51,160 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: understand the consequences of turning into I don't know, let's 23 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: say hungry. You know, Fox News's new favorite satellite place 24 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: to have Tucker Carlson air his shows from. Let's think 25 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 1: about other areas like, oh, I don't know, Russia, there 26 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 1: are other other places that they love to broadcast from. 27 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: What it means to have a president be able to 28 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: wield that type of power and against citizens and have 29 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: no consequences. What does the future look like? You know, 30 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: you always hear about the right wanting to talk about 31 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: free speech as a way to weaponize their language and 32 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: their language of violence against marginalized people. Well, I don't 33 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: foresee having the ability to have significant freedom of speech 34 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: when you can be targeted killed because the president of 35 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: the United States doesn't like what you say and decides 36 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: then to make you a target. And people can say, well, oh, 37 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: Donald Trump didn't actually say go and storm the capital. No, 38 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: he just said everything else, but that Donald Trump by 39 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: virtue of putting a target on Lady Ruby and her 40 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: daughter basically said how dare you? How dare you decide 41 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: to volunteer for your community to be an elector during 42 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: a time of a pandemic, How dare you? Because the 43 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: only people that can be trusted are the criminals that 44 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: he surrounds himself with, making an example of people like 45 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: the two of those women, so that others that think 46 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: to themselves, maybe I too would like to volunteer, will 47 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: think twice and so that instead you have what people 48 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: like the Proud Boys and the oath Keepers and other 49 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: white supremacist with their AAR fifteen standing at our poll places. 50 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: Is that what the future of America looks like? Well, 51 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: it is, frankly and less once and for all we 52 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: rid ourselves, not only of Donald Trump, but of Trump 53 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: is a you know, I keep listening to reporters interview 54 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: Republicans and as if they're like normal people with just 55 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: a conservative ideology. These are people that believe the big lie, 56 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: that are part of the cult right, that believe that 57 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: Donald Trump did no wrong, should not have any accountability, 58 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: and that this is the future of our democracy. That 59 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: you can just cry foul because you don't have policies 60 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: or a platform that align with the majority of people, 61 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: and so if the people choose not to elect you, 62 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: then you can just throw up your hands and say, oh, 63 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: this is fraudulent. It's not. Your platform is bogus, So 64 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: it is to me. You know, you would think that 65 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: there would be more than two Republicans that would actually 66 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: stand up. You would think that as Mike Pence his 67 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: own life was threatened, that he would throw his full 68 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: weight behind our democracy. But he's a tepid piece of 69 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: shit right, just like the rest of them. But I 70 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: just want us to really understand that if not for 71 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: the handful of people, brave people who decided to not 72 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: go along with the President of the United States's scheme 73 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: to defraud the American people, we would be in a 74 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: completely different place right now. Now. I'm not going to 75 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: say that the place that we're in is great, because 76 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: it's sure as fuck as not. But imagine what would 77 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: have happened if Mike Pence had decided that he was 78 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: going to go along with Donald Trump, that he was 79 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: going to decertify the election for Biden and just institute 80 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: Donald Trump as president. Remember, we had already had a 81 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: six to three Supreme Court. So if you think back 82 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: to two thousen and who actually decided that election, it 83 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: was not the American people, it was the Supreme Court. 84 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: Donald Trump was thinking ahead. The things that I think 85 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: that are missing in terms of these hearings that are 86 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: taking place right now is the fact that this was 87 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: not something that was cooked up in November. It wasn't 88 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: cooked up in December. It was fucking cooked up well 89 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: before the first ballot was even cast. Go back to 90 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: the first utterances of Donald Trump saying that the only 91 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: way that he's going to lose this election is if 92 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: it's stolen. Go back to that. That is when Donald 93 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,679 Speaker 1: Trump began to devise the plan to defraud the American people. 94 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: And now we look, we look at actually the human 95 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: cost of that ill faded plan. And I say ill 96 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: faded because it didn't succeed this time, but without prosecution 97 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: by the Department of Justice, it will succeed the next time, 98 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: you know. Coming up next my conversation with the author 99 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: of the book The Case for Cancel Culture, Ernest Owens, 100 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: and Ernest and I will get into what I think 101 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: is a really important conversation where he believes that cancel 102 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: culture is used as a democratic tool by the oppressed 103 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: to hold those that have power right the privilege of 104 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: whiteness to be able to skirt the law. So what 105 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: else is left for people to do we unpack this, 106 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: and I ask him questions about, you know, how is 107 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: the useful way to cancel somebody, And he's just like, well, 108 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: if you're Elon Musk, if you're Donald Trump, and you've 109 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: been able to live above the law, exists in the clouds. 110 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: The only way to get rid of somebody like you 111 00:07:55,560 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: is to use the power of our social consciousness and say, 112 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: this person has a scarlet letter. That hasn't been done 113 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: enough with Donald Trump. And I don't think that we 114 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: will see even a crack in the Maga dome until 115 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,559 Speaker 1: and unless this Department of Justice goes after not only 116 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, but every single person around Donald Trump and 117 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: takes them down. We continue to say each and every 118 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 1: week on this show that democracy hangs in the balance. 119 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: I can't express to you enough that fact. We're seeing 120 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: Supreme Court cases file one by one, not even chip 121 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: away right, not even claw away, but hack away at 122 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: our constitution, at the separation between church and state. Because 123 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: guess what new case by the Supreme Court. Guess where 124 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: your tax dollars are going to find religious schools? Because 125 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: the core of the Republican Party has always wanted to 126 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: defund public education. Well, So now, if state money needs 127 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: to go to religious institutions that you decide to send 128 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: your kids to as opposed to the public schools, who 129 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: do you think is going to be affected? Friends, Each 130 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: and every day becomes darker here. And the mustard seed 131 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: of light and hope that we are holding onto is 132 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: that while Merrick Garland is often the fucking Ukraine, that 133 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 1: he's still paying attention to what is happening in this country. 134 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: And I say that not because we don't want to 135 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: support Ukraine, but if I have to make a dischoice 136 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: between their democracy or hours, I want Hours protected first, 137 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: because there's no way to protect other countries if America falls. 138 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: That's just the reality. We saw it at the beginning 139 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: of the Trump administration when he was pulling out of 140 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: global agreements and task for send groups. So if America 141 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: is no longer a democracy and we leave a vacuum, 142 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: what do you think moves into place? So coming up next, friends, 143 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 1: the author of the book The Case for Cancel Culture, 144 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: Ernest Owens, and our conversation about how we use cancel 145 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: culture as a way to regain power that has been lost. 146 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: It's no secret that the news is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully, 147 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: there's The Bituation Room podcast hosted by comedian and commentator 148 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: Francesca free Erntini for a lighter take on the heavy stuff. 149 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 1: Each week, The Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts, 150 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: and activists to break down the issues in a way 151 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: that won't just leave you crying under a weighted blanket. 152 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: Get The Bituation Room on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and 153 00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: streaming on YouTube and Twitch. Get a behind the scenes 154 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: look at Comedy Central's The Daily Show on Beyond the Scenes, 155 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: an original podcast from the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. 156 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: Every week, host Roy Wood Junior goes deeper with the 157 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: notable guests and experts from the Emmy Award winning series. Together, 158 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: they use comedy to tackle current topics from gentrification to 159 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: gun laws and take a closer look at how and 160 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: why these topics matter. Listen to Beyond the Scenes from 161 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: The Daily Show with Trevor Noah on the iHeartRadio app, 162 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,479 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes 163 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: every Tuesday. Folks, I am very happy to welcome to 164 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:41,119 Speaker 1: woka F for the very first time, Award winning journalists 165 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: Ernest Owens, whose upcoming book the case for cancel culture, 166 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: how this democratic tool works to liberate us. All join Ernest. 167 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: It is great to have you on wokea f Cancel 168 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: culture is a word, a phrase that has been thrown around. 169 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: My God, I don't know, probably in my recollection the 170 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: beginning of the Trump administration. There was literally just a 171 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: piece this week in I want to say, It's New 172 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: York magazine talking about how cancel culture is detrimental to 173 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: high school students and what it means and how it's devastating. 174 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: So I want to hear from you. Why is cancel 175 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: culture in your opinion, a good thing? Well, thank you 176 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: for having me on. I think for starters, I think 177 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people have used council culture in the 178 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: wrong way. The term. I think that for some people, 179 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: those who are privileged and have power, it's a dog 180 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: whistle to divorce themselves from accountability, and that what has 181 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: happened is is that you know, in my book, I 182 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: talk a lot about the history of council culture, Like 183 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: before it was council culture, it was political correctness. Before 184 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: its political correctness, it was well before it was we 185 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,040 Speaker 1: got after political correctness, it was call out culture, and 186 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: it's been all of these other terms. But if we 187 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: actually look at who's been using those terms and when 188 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: do they come into play, it's often by those with power. 189 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: It's often those who are are privileged in some type 190 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,199 Speaker 1: of way, and it's often used as a way to 191 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: try to deflect attention from those who've been afflicted, those 192 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,599 Speaker 1: who are marginalized. And so I think that if we 193 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: if we actually look at what counsel culture is actually 194 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: doing and what people are trying to accuse it of, 195 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: we find that those who are being accused of counseling 196 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: people often those who've been afflicted, who have been done 197 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: in a wrong way, who's been abused, and other things, 198 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: and that it's actually the device that is used by 199 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: the oppressed to actually act out in ways that the system, 200 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: the justice system, other systems couldnot address, you know. So 201 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: I think that in that way, if we look at 202 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: counsel culture as a tool by the marginalized to address 203 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: things the powerful was done to them, that is in 204 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: itself a good thing. So let me ask you this, 205 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: you know, because one of the I guess one of 206 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: the most problematic sides of cancel culture has been are 207 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: we learning anything those people right? When we talk about 208 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: accountability because I talk about accountability a lot on WIKA app, 209 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: particularly holding white sis hetero men who are often in 210 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: power accountable for their wrongdoing, whether it is sexual harassment, 211 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: whether it's you know, undermining our democracy, criminal behavior in 212 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: any so fashion. Is there a learning that happens or 213 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: is it just a fear? So I won't say this thing, 214 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: but I still believe this thing, like is there an 215 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: ability to learn from bad behavior if people are just canceled? Like, 216 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: is there any is there any redemption? I guess is 217 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: the question or is it to have a larger conversation 218 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: about the wrongdoing. I think that this has been going on, 219 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: like for starters. I want to be clear, cancel culture 220 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: is not a new phenomenon. You know, this is around 221 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: for the beginning of time. And so when we say 222 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: people are canceled, are people really canceled? Right? Are people 223 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: actually forever forbidden? And in those cases where we're asking 224 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: that question about redemption and things, that's a larger conversation 225 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: about the justice systems that be and society within. I 226 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: think it's up to the individual who was in that 227 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: situation if they should But I think oftentimes I'm very 228 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: worried about considering what's for the offender rather than considering 229 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: those who have been afflicted. Because that story that you're 230 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: talking about that's in the cut from New York magazine. Yeah, 231 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: time and my opinion victim blaming. It's been a lot 232 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: of time trying to empathize with those who do wrong, 233 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: and what we forget in these conversations that while we're 234 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: quick to jump into, you know, well, what about the 235 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: consequences that person did that thing, we do ignore the 236 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: conversation on accountability. I think that from accountability, if these 237 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: things are done in the order to which they are, 238 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: learning can come from those things. Resolution can come from 239 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: those things. But because we're in society that is so 240 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: scared right to hold people actually accountable, we oftentimes are 241 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: answering asking questions that could be answered if we actually 242 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: went through the process. So I think, you know, actually, 243 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: did you know, call people out, did address these issues? 244 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: If people acknowledge their wrongdoing, if people actually face whatever 245 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: consequences they were in those in that process, learning is 246 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: happening there right. People are understanding what they did wrong 247 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: and why they did it right. I think there's a 248 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: lot that can be learned in the process within the self. 249 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that had pissed me 250 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: off at the beginning of the Trump administration and m 251 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: was hearing people his Trump is his maga. People say 252 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: that they love Donald Trump because he just tells it 253 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: like it is. There's no political correctness, there's no whatever. 254 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: He's just going to be as misogynistic, as ableist, as 255 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: you know, racist, as all of these things, and to them, 256 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: that's authenticity. What is your pushback to that? Because there 257 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: has been what I feel like, is this progression or 258 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: actually regression to just vitriol, nastiness and couching that as 259 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: being authentic, right, And it's not. But that's what that's 260 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: what the right has co opted. If you're if the 261 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: if if we want to say that the political left 262 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: is supposedly about inclusion, right, then the political right is 263 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: has made their case for exclusion. So they're gonna they're like, 264 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: we don't have to use people's pronouns, we don't have 265 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: to you know, speak kindly to other people, because that's 266 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: not I'm not going to be forced to political correctness, right, 267 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: So what is your pushback to that? Well, for starters, 268 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: I think that those levels of luxuries that of ruteness. Right, 269 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: there's a luxury that that is a privilege. There's a 270 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: privilege to be condescending and rude in that type of way. 271 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: And that's a luxury to the powerful, right because they 272 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: don't have to have the same moral code or consequences 273 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: everything people do. One of the things that I talk 274 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: about in my book is that I argue that everyday 275 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: people don't get canceled. That if you say, for example, 276 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: something racist at your job and you lose your job, 277 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: you weren't canceled. You were held accountable to the code 278 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: of conduct that you agreed to when you signed that contract, right, 279 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: And I think that's what we're missing here, is that 280 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: powerful people, super rich people, the Harvey Wine seems of 281 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: the old. Those individuals are the ones that oftentimes can 282 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: make the rules and break the rules and behaving frits 283 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: and have all the power, right, so they're not held 284 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: to the same standards and laws and rules that the 285 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: rest of us do. So that is why people have 286 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: to arguably cancel them, because there is no other way 287 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: to hold them accountable. And so what we've seen is 288 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: that the most powerful, most privileged individuals, right, white cis 289 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: had men, These real big Republicans on the right that 290 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: have all this political influence is that they try to 291 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: make it seem like we're all on the same playing field, 292 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: that what they're doing anyone else can do. But we 293 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: see that other people do what they do, they don't 294 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: get the same types of privileges and consequences. See if 295 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: if I or a group of white people you know, 296 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: just aside to go to their burger king because they 297 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: didn't like the hiring of a boss or the promotion 298 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: of a new boss, and they went to that burger 299 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: king and tore it down and had an insurrection at 300 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: burger king, they would all be immediate going the JETL 301 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: versus a former president inciting and now debating whether or 302 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: not criminal charges we filed, those are not the same. 303 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: Those are not the same situations. And so I want 304 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: to explain to people that to me, council culture is 305 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: about a power dynamic shift. It's about those who can't 306 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: be held accountable in any other way other than a 307 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: collective force of action that caused them out. People are 308 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: not creating social media campaigns to call out folks that 309 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: no one don't know or don't hold any power. And 310 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: yet the problem is is that a lot of times 311 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: white people and their white guilt makes them seem like 312 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: there's a target on their back, when in reality, the 313 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: target is on anyone with powers back. And so in 314 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: some cases that do mean white sis head men like Trump, 315 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: and in some cases it can mean a comedian like 316 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle, who is one of the richest, most well 317 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: known comedians in the in the planet. Like that is 318 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: what people have to understand. It's a real power dynamic. 319 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: Race do influence, its gender influences, its sex orientation influences, 320 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: but it's really about power. And I think a lot 321 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: of people want to believe that they have equal amounts 322 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: of power to those of Trump, but that's just not true. 323 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: You know, we watch at least I was watching the 324 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: fourth installment of the of the Insurrection hearings, right and 325 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: just you know, for the example, listening to um, you know, 326 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: miss Lady Ruby and her daughter Shame Moss, two black 327 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: women who were targeted by the President of the United 328 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: States and literally have lost their name, have lost their businesses, 329 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: have lost their so have lost their ability to live 330 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: free from violence, right, whether that be verbal or physical. 331 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: And as I was watching that hearing and I'm saying 332 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 1: to myself, the President of the United States used his 333 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: platform to target citizens who were doing nothing other than 334 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: their civic duty right to help out their county, Fulton 335 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 1: County and Georgia in the midst of a pandemic. And 336 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: I said to myself, why didn't we at that time 337 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: have a conversation about power, right and the abuses of power? 338 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,719 Speaker 1: Because to your point, you're absolutely right. I think that 339 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: when we are having conversations about cancel culture, those of 340 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: us that are using it as a tool right to 341 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: hold people accountable, I think that we're not couching that 342 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: conversation in power. We're always talking about it. We're coming 343 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: from the defense as opposed to let me talk about 344 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: it where you're from, where you're situating your book. You 345 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: know the case for cancel culture to say no, no, no, 346 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: Like if we're talking about an Elon Musk, if you're 347 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: talking about a Donald Trump, you're talking about multi billionaires 348 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: and multimillionaires that literally can buy and sell whomever whatever 349 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: they want, right, and they are seen as like a 350 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: product in that way, there is no other choice but 351 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,479 Speaker 1: to deny these people the oxygen in the room. So 352 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: Donald Trump being canceled from Twitter. Was was a safety mechanism, right, 353 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: It was about taking back what little power? So, how 354 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: do you think, Ernest, that we how do you think 355 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: that we shift these conversations? How do we how do 356 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: we reclaim the purpose of actually holding power accountable? Because powered, 357 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: because I have been I've been tweeting this for the 358 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: past week. White men are never gonna hold white men 359 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: in power. Ain't gonna hold white men in power accountable. 360 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: That is not who the systems were created for. Right, 361 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: And so how do you think that we reclaim this 362 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: tool and talk about it from a space that actually 363 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: has it expressed as what it is, which is a 364 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: reclamation of power that has always been absent from those 365 00:23:54,720 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: that are oppressed? How would they read my book like 366 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: like I wrote this book because I've been in those experiences. 367 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: I've covered them in my journalism career, and they've always 368 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: shown up and manifested in different ways. Until your point, 369 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: It is about number one, telling everybody one take a breath, 370 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: Calm down. Everyday people, everyday working class people. We're not 371 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: the target of counseling. We're not the ones that are 372 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: canceling each other having an argument, having a disagreement, having 373 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: a difference of opinion is not counseling. We need to 374 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: look at who is. Always tell people that when you 375 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: see the most powerful people on the left and the 376 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: right agreeing over an issue together, that means that they 377 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: want the rest of us not to pay attention. When 378 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: you can see Andrew Cuomo saying they come on, and 379 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: when you can see Donald Trump, you know, banning counseling, 380 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: talking about counsel culture. Why do what do these people 381 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: have in common? They all have power, they all have privilege. 382 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: And sometimes what we've done is we've let counsel culture 383 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: become a political issue of left versus right. It's not 384 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: a blue issue, it's not a red issue. This is 385 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: a bipartisan issue with the powerful people have agreed that 386 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: they don't like black power, they don't like counsel culture. 387 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: Let's take the word. Let's say let's let's take counsel 388 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: culture out and say accountability. I bet you for every 389 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: situation where these people have yelled that they don't like 390 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: counsel culture, replace the world with accountability and it's the 391 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: same effect. And who are they doubling down on women, 392 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: black and brown people, queer people, trans people, poor people. 393 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: It's something to be said that there's a David and 394 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: Golia of dynamic here. And I want everyday people to 395 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: recognize that counsel culture is a tool that scares the 396 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: powerful people into submission to be more accountable in ways 397 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: they were not. My book talks about how before everyday 398 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: people get to the point of counseling, there's a thousand 399 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: things we do before things go from zero to one hundred, 400 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: and no one ever acknowledges that that there was conversations, 401 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 1: There was simple requests, and then when those were ignored, 402 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: people had to hit the streets. People had to then 403 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: call people out. I think people have to recognize that 404 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: it's not just some one day people wake up and 405 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: choose violence. It's that that is oftentimes the only resort 406 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: they have after they've tried everything else. And history has 407 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: shown us that look at what they're calling counsel culture. 408 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: They called Black Lives Matter counsel culture. They called me 409 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: to counsel culture. But did me to not give women 410 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: an opportunity and a voice in a platform to share 411 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: their stories to hold these violent men accountable? Did Black 412 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: Lives Matter not create a racial uprising and reckoning for 413 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: white people? In this country. Why are we shaming and 414 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: condemning the very things that have liberated people and have 415 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: given these people free speech and the same First Amendments 416 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: that white people have used and abused for centuries. It's 417 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: a double candle, and let's be very clear, everybody's counseling 418 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: each other. We're not gonna sit up and act like 419 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 1: Jerry Falwell wasn't out here trying to cancel the Teletubbies. 420 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: We're not gonna sit up here and act like the 421 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,479 Speaker 1: Dixie Chicks weren't canceled. We're not trying to act like 422 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: there was not islamophobia and canceling of Muslim communities during 423 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: nine to eleven. Like the same people out here talking 424 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: about religious freedom are the same people that use that 425 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: to dictate how they've canceled books in communities, Like this 426 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: is a hypocrisy, Like they're trying to they're trying to 427 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: counsel us and use the very tools that we've done 428 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: to hold them accountable to now weaponize that against us 429 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: to suppress us. It's a big hypocrisy. And I just 430 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: want everyday people to recognize that there's nothing to fear, 431 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: recount the culture that this is a term that I 432 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,959 Speaker 1: am reappropriating. I don't want to call it accountability culture. 433 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 1: I don't want to call it anything. I want to 434 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: embrace this term because there's power in the term. Because 435 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: they're scared, because the world is getting browner, the world 436 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: is getting woker, the world is starting to recognize things 437 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: that they used to be able to turn off and 438 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: shut down. What do you hope, Ernest? My last question 439 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 1: for you, what do you hope that people take from 440 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: your book? What? What what tools do you hope and 441 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: what do you envision after folks read read your book 442 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: that they take from it. I want there to be 443 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: a real reshifting of the narrative around holding people accountable. 444 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: I want people to stop victim blaming. I hope that 445 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't automatically this gut reaction that 446 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: every person has, or at least we're seeing on social 447 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: media that people are like, oh, I don't want to 448 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: say that because I'm want to get canceled. That. It 449 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: reminds me of like during Me Too, where people are saying, 450 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: what will happen? Will men will me to make men, 451 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: you know, rethink everything they do. No, because I shout 452 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: shod it right? It should right? But also the department. 453 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: It's like people who've been practicing etiquette and practicing decent 454 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: behavior or trying to are not the people that's on 455 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: the chopping block, like these people. Like we have to 456 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: understand that we as a society, especially in America, always 457 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: feel like when people do problematic things, they're mistakes. We're 458 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: quick to believe that all of these things happening are 459 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: mistakes and people are innocent, and it's like own, what 460 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: was them? They made that mistake, they caused that insurrection, 461 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: They said that very racist thing on national television. It 462 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: was such a mistake. Oh my goodness, Joe Rogan said 463 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: the N word several times. What a mistake. These are 464 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: not mistakes, Come on, These are a real abuses that 465 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: cause harm. So I hope that when people read this 466 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: book and see all the case studies and examples and 467 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: interviews I do, that they'll take a step back and say, 468 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: you know what, that person deserved that consequence. I can 469 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: understand why people did what they're do. This community had 470 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: no other choice. People were put in a position to 471 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: have to make these decisions because there was no other way. 472 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: And we start to reshift the conversation and not looking 473 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: at how to redeem and heal problem with people, but 474 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: how to better protect defend those who've been afflicted that 475 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: when they read this book, they say, you know what, 476 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: this is gonna make me think about ways that I 477 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: can show up to help the trans community. This is 478 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: going to help me be a better advocate for women issues. 479 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: This is going to help me think twice before I 480 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: play Devil's Advocate and conversations about race. I hope that 481 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: this is going to create a cultural reset on how 482 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: we talk about accountability in this country because the people 483 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: out here it's fighting for our democracy, our rights, o 484 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: our livelihood. Those people this book is dedicated to them. 485 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: I dedicate this book to those people, and I hope 486 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: that we don't forget them in these conversations. Ernest, let 487 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: me tell you something. I hope that folks will run, 488 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: not walk, to go out and buy your book because 489 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: I think that we need it at this time. I 490 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: think that we need you know as because what we 491 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: are seeing it is the power grab right between the 492 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: oppressed and the oppressor. And what did you know, what 493 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: have so many philosophers said is that no one relinquishes 494 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: power right. It has to be taken right and So 495 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,719 Speaker 1: if we allow them to dictate the narrative, if we 496 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: allow them to co opt and weaponize, to use your 497 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: word to weaponize accountability, then we continue to lose. And 498 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: so I think that your book is a going to 499 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: be that tool that is needed at this time. So Ernest, 500 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: thank you so much for making the time to join 501 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: woke f folks. The book is the case for cancel culture, 502 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: how this democratic tool works to liberate us all. Get 503 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: it now at Amazon and everywhere that books are sold. 504 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: We appreciate you, Arnes, Thank you, Thank you. The Damage 505 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: Report with John Idarola is one of the most popular 506 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: shows on the TYT Network that serves as your daily 507 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: breakdown of the genuine threats and challenges facing our country 508 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: and world. These days, we're confronted with an overwhelming sea 509 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: of shocking, confounding, and devastating news stories. The Damage Report 510 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: is your life raft, helping you navigate the day's news 511 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: and understand the damage caused by the corrupt establishment, politicians, corporations, 512 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: and everything in between. 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