1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,359 Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio Podcast. 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: This week's adult Education, We've got doctor Maria Sophacalias coming on. 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: She's got a new book called The Bedroom Gap. It's 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: available now. It's a roadmap for midlife women, couples, clinicians, 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: and anyone wanting to understand and change how we age 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: sexually speaking, girlfriend, are we ready to learn a bit 7 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: more about that bedroom gap? 8 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 2: You know, there's no shame in our game. I'm ready 9 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 2: for a doctor Marie in my life. 10 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: And when I mean the gap, like the gap, get it? 11 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: Got it? Hey there, hi. 12 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 3: Friend, where are you recording from? 13 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: We are in Nashville. You're in Jersey, Nashville. 14 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 3: I'm in Princeton, New Jersey. Yeah, I love it. 15 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: I love you. Oh you know what. 16 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 2: So we're both Michiganders. Okay, I think that Michiganders really 17 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 2: love East Coast attitude more than anyone really, because I 18 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 2: think you're our inner voice that we always wish we 19 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: could use. 20 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 3: A little more brash. Yeah, a little which is more direct. 21 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 2: I like to say in your fence and thank you 22 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: so love that you just say what you mean. 23 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. I love so. My son went to you, Mish, 24 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 3: and I loved going there and getting to know Michigan 25 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 3: as a state and a people. I kind of had 26 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 3: a big crush on Michigan for four years and it's lasted. 27 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 3: He's finished. But it's like just nice, lovely people, the 28 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:27,199 Speaker 3: state itself, so much beauty, so much differunity, so much there. 29 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 3: And I was embarrassed at how ignorant I was, and 30 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 3: because I've lived all over the world and it's like, 31 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 3: wait a minute, this is in my backyard. This is gorgeous, Yes, gorgeous. 32 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: N And speaking of beautiful, is the bedroom gap. I'll 33 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: just dive right into it literally figuratively. 34 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 2: She made it a word of the week. 35 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 3: Yes she did, Yes she did. 36 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: She's a big deal. 37 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 3: Thank you. And now it's actually being used in psychology 38 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 3: as a concept, so psyche grad students learn about this 39 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 3: as a part of understanding relationship to difficulties that have 40 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 3: an intimate nature. So I'm really happy that it's like 41 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 3: kind of catching And I hope if people read this 42 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 3: book it'll really make people feel not so alone and ashamed, 43 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 3: because I think a lot of people have shame around 44 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 3: sex and they're inadequacy or insecurity or they're unhappy, and 45 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 3: I just don't think. You know, people talk with their 46 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: girlfriends kind of, but they don't. They don't feel they 47 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 3: have anyone really to talk to about it. I think 48 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 3: certainly not clinicians. I mean, doctors have done a horrible 49 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 3: job of making themselves feel come to me, talk to me. 50 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 3: They're more like, oh god, I hope no one brings 51 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 3: up anything sexual. 52 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: You know. That's kind of how my parents raised me too, 53 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 2: Doctor Maria. I feel like they were like, oh God, 54 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 2: just please don't talk about it. You know, Like I 55 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 2: think my mom had my first sex talk with me 56 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 2: when I was like twenty two. 57 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: I've let a note underneath the door. It was the 58 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: first time that she found out that I was having 59 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: That's how. 60 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I was pregnant and I was like, something. 61 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: Happens and I know what it is now, yeah. 62 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 3: And am not. We're not religious, so you can't tell 63 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 3: me the whole Immaculate Conception thing because you know anyway. 64 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: Which piece of shame around the bedroom gap? Do you hear? 65 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: The most that you talk about in your. 66 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 3: Book, mostly shame around Like I feel bad, I want it. 67 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 3: You guys don't have a book. Can I send you 68 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 3: a book, like, can I send you one? 69 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: Please? I would, yeah, love, and also I will also 70 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: buy okay. 71 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 3: Well whatever you want, but if you can send me 72 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 3: your addresses, then I'll make sure you have one. What 73 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 3: a lot of my podcast recordings do is we talk 74 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 3: a lot about the concept and about sex and about 75 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 3: men and women and relationships and stuff, and then they 76 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 3: actually read the book and it's so rich because the 77 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 3: book has a lot about how where this shame came from, 78 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 3: Like it's actually four thousand years of history of culture 79 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 3: teaching us that as women, your purpose is to please 80 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 3: and to serve, and that sex is for men. And 81 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 3: even like you know, badass career women still have that. 82 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 3: Like my practice, I have women from all over the country. 83 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 3: I have women from other countries. I have CEOs and celebrities, 84 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 3: influencers and Olympic athletes, all these women who should feel 85 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 3: so proud of themselves, but in my exam room, they're 86 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 3: still ashamed. They're still like I'm not enough, or I 87 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 3: don't orgasm well, or I've never had an orgasm, or 88 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 3: it hurts, or I think I wish I was like 89 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 3: my neighbor who says she is sex four times a 90 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 3: week why don't I care enough? And so I think 91 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 3: society does us a disservice. I think Hollywood too really 92 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 3: does kind of think of how sex is. 93 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: Portrayed right well, especially now too in TV. 94 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and it's always penis and vagina. Sex equals 95 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 3: an orgasm for a woman guaranteed one hundred percent every 96 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 3: time fully clothed in five seconds. It's like on what planet? Right? 97 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: So I think we've been fed a lot of unattainable standards, 98 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 3: maybe not so different from our beauty standards that cause 99 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 3: so much stress and strife for people, but this one's private, right. 100 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 3: So I started seeing that in my patients and started 101 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 3: feeling like it's time to scale the message that you're 102 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 3: okay and that you can define sex for yourself and 103 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 3: that you have the right to sexual pleasure. I think 104 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 3: kind of all that was in a way the purpose 105 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 3: of the book, but I would love you guys to 106 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 3: look at it and. 107 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: See, yeah, no, for sure. And I think, you know, 108 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: we have another co host too that she's you know, 109 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: doesn't we talk about our different sex appetites, and you 110 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: know she's she's definitely more on the you know, not 111 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: as much. But I could see how it could affect 112 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: other people. And I'm like, I love sex and I 113 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: love to have sex, and like we're very open about 114 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: our sexual does you. 115 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 3: Know, desire level? 116 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, like all of that. But I think, you know, 117 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: I could see that we're people. When you're going to 118 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: the compare game, which is a very unhathor game to do, 119 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: it can be like, well, what's wrong with me? Like 120 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: why don't I want to have it that much? But 121 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: I think for me, as I'm as a forty two 122 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: year old woman, I've noticed just the change of not 123 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: wanting it to wanting it to you know, and it's 124 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: it was I'm on testosterone because my testosterone was really low. 125 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: That's something that has helped. But I do think there's 126 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: a lot of times where women will just go like, oh, 127 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: there's something wrong with me, but there actually is. There 128 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 1: could be something wrong in your life, definitely. 129 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 3: Could yeah, and or even your thyroid or even mild depression. 130 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 3: I mean, it's especially in perimenopause. I see this a ton, 131 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 3: So remember because I'm sure your listeners are super educated, 132 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 3: but let's just do a quick review anyway, Like menopause 133 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 3: is sort of the last third of our lives when 134 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 3: we're not reproductively able to conceive on our own and 135 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: when we don't have periods anymore, and the ovaries aren't 136 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 3: making estrogen, progesterone or testosterone. Remember, our ovaries make even 137 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 3: more testosterone than estrogen. But perimenopause is sort of that 138 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 3: decade before, sort of mid thirties to fifty somewhere in there, 139 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 3: when the estrogen, progesterone, testosterone are getting made but in 140 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 3: a wonky, irregular way, and that wonkiness can either lead 141 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:13,239 Speaker 3: to just period hell infrequent frequent, heavy light, unpredictable PMS, craziness, 142 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 3: add exacerbation emotional stuff, but also can affect libido. I mean, 143 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 3: the brain is so sensitive to those hormonal changes that 144 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 3: even if they're there but too high, too low, or irregular, 145 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 3: it can really mess with your desire. And that's hard 146 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,119 Speaker 3: for most people to connect those dots. And stunningly, most 147 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 3: doctors don't even connect those dots because doctors did not 148 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 3: get good training in women's health in general, for sure, 149 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 3: in menopause, imperiodmenopause, and for sure for sure in sexual 150 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 3: health for sure, and they still don't. So that's what 151 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 3: we need to have these kind of conversations. 152 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: Does menopause cause your cause you did not want to 153 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: have sex. 154 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 3: Well, that's a little bit over simplified, but yes, and 155 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 3: many women because remember when the ovaries are making almost 156 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 3: no testosterone. We know that testosterone is part of libido 157 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 3: part and I say part because your self esteem is 158 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 3: part of it, your relationships part of it. The temperature 159 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 3: of your bedroom is part of it. The way you 160 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 3: were raised about sex, Is it shameful? Is masturbation okay? 161 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 3: Do I know my body? All those things factor into 162 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 3: what we bring to our identity in the bedroom. And 163 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 3: I would argue that that affects who you are right 164 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 3: from the beginning, right from when you first start having sex. 165 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 3: But what happens in our forties and fifties when the 166 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 3: hormonal impacts become more pronounced and women eighty five percent 167 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 3: of women get unexplained weight gain. So self image can 168 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 3: take a hit. And sometimes we have job stress, money stress, 169 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 3: relationship stress, parent stress, or aging kids stress. There's a 170 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 3: lot in that timeframe what I call the bedroom gap. 171 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 3: The difference in expectations and abilities between partners can widen. Now, 172 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 3: add viagra into the picture, because we all know the 173 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 3: getting viagra is as easy as getting bubblegum, and it's 174 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 3: covered and it's available. So now a man in midlife 175 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 3: who might start be feeling shitty about himself can now 176 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 3: have erections on demand and go, oh my god, I 177 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 3: think I want sex more. And that poor woman who's 178 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 3: already like I'm feeling not myself. Now we've made the 179 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 3: playing field on level. So I think it's not as 180 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 3: simple as menopause means a dropping hormones, so you lose 181 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 3: your sex stress. Because some women, even without the same 182 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 3: amount of testosterone, they feel so liberated that they don't 183 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 3: need birth control, or they're divorced and dating again, or 184 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 3: they're single or their happy partnered and now they don't 185 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 3: have kids in the bedroom next tour. So many of 186 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 3: my patients have the opposite. They have a renaissance. They're like, 187 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 3: let's take let's take vacations. It's just two of us. 188 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 3: Let me. You know, I'm doing all the biohacking. I'm 189 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 3: working out, I'm eeting protein. I've got a six pack 190 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 3: that I never had in my whole married life. Like 191 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 3: I see both ends, and that's that's great, that's encouraging. 192 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 3: But I think for some women they feel really left 193 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 3: out in the cold, especially when their husbands are sort 194 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 3: of like, I've got bagra, so what's wrong with you? 195 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 3: You know? 196 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 2: And so I have seen an increase as time goes 197 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: on where there is procedures that a lot of women 198 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 2: have started to identify and you know, experiment with. I 199 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: myself did the O shot after our last baby. I 200 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: had my last baby at forty one, So I just 201 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 2: it was for me a lot about just pee my 202 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 2: pants if I'm on it, Like, I just felt like 203 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: I was kind of often like ladder control is just tricky, 204 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 2: but then quickly learned there's a lot of great side 205 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 2: effects from it. You have kind of spearheaded the movement 206 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 2: post breast cancer. 207 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 208 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, because I think those women really feel crappy about 209 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 3: themselves and they're scared. They're scared of cancer. Their partners 210 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 3: are scared what if we have sex and that triggers 211 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 3: the cancer. They're Oncologists say things to them like, my 212 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 3: job is to fix the cancer and keep you cancer free. 213 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 3: I can't really worry about the rest of your health. 214 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 3: So they feel like, man, the last thing I can 215 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 3: ask this doctor about is I'm on an anti estrogen 216 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 3: medication my vagina, I'm forty three. Now I have the 217 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 3: vagina of a seventy year old. I feel worse than 218 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 3: even when I had my mastectomy. What gives? And they 219 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 3: feel awful and broken and they need the dopamine hit, 220 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 3: let's say, of sex, almost more than we do. You know, 221 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 3: they need to feel feminine again. They need to feel 222 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 3: powerful and vital. So I'm a big believer that whether 223 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 3: it's that you had a heart attack, or you've got 224 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 3: a hip replacement, or you had a ski injury, or 225 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 3: you have breast cancer or whatever, cancer, sex is actually 226 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 3: part of your healing and part of longevity and part 227 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 3: of health. Like I view sexual health as a pillar 228 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 3: of health, just like we talk about nutrition, sleep, movement, 229 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 3: and social connectivity, the four big pillars of health that 230 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 3: we can all practice every day. I think sexual health 231 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 3: is actually part of that that when we have an 232 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 3: active sex life, which by the way, we can define 233 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 3: for ourselves. If you can't have penis and vagina sex 234 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 3: because it hurts, or because you were assaulted as a 235 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 3: young woman, or because your husband or partner has a 236 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 3: rectile difficulty, or your female partner says, I'm just only 237 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 3: up for cuttling. Whatever you too, define as a healthy 238 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 3: sex life. That's good. It's when one of you wants 239 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 3: a and the other ones b that communication really needs 240 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 3: to happen. So in the book, we talk a lot 241 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 3: about how to have that first talk if things aren't right, 242 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 3: how to really word, how you're going to say something 243 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 3: without judgment, without pointing the finger because you don't want 244 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 3: your partner to suddenly get defensive, right, And how you 245 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 3: can even have regular sexual check ins. I mean, look, 246 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 3: we check in about taxes, did you go to the 247 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 3: dentist this year? What's my son's calculus grade? Why does 248 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:31,839 Speaker 3: your mother talk about moving in with us? I don't 249 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 3: think that's a good idea. We talk about everything with 250 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 3: our partners, but many partners truly don't talk comfortably about sex. 251 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 3: And I think if we can undo that in our society, 252 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 3: we have a lot more room for growth, for evolution, 253 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 3: because we need to as we age. You know, it'd 254 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 3: be like if you and your partner are runners, and 255 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 3: now he's sixty two and you know he's starting to 256 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 3: hurt his knees. He's got to share that with you 257 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 3: and say, I think maybe we could try doing lap swimming, 258 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 3: or maybe let's do walks with our dog instead, This 259 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 3: is probably not great for my knees. Sex has to 260 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 3: evolve like that. And I don't mean just in terms 261 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 3: of you have cancer or you're getting older, even in 262 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 3: terms of novelty, Like newness in a sex life is 263 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 3: so great. It releases all kinds of cool neurotransmitters. And 264 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 3: yet most couples in America do the same thing every 265 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 3: Friday night at ten o'clock. It's like eating cheerios. It's like, 266 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 3: we buy cheerios every damn week at the market. And 267 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 3: you know what, a little novelty is so good for 268 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 3: both of us. So whether it's fantasy or introducing a toy, 269 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 3: or just saying something casual like I loved it when 270 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 3: we were away a few weeks ago and we did this, 271 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 3: or you gave me a BackRub before we started, or 272 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 3: whatever it is to share with you what was a 273 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 3: turn on? You think he or she knows, but they 274 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 3: might not, and hearing that positive feedback encourages them to go, oh, 275 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 3: she liked that kind of new, different thing. You know, obviously, 276 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 3: don't do anything you'll want to do. But I think 277 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 3: novelty is very underrated in long term relationships, and it's 278 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 3: super important and I think for cancer patients it's understanding 279 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 3: when is it safe to have sex again. I mean, 280 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 3: unless you had a hysterectomy or you had a massive 281 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 3: heart attack, it's usually pretty quickly safe again. And understanding 282 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 3: that your sexual health is part of healing and part 283 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 3: of being a whole, not just a survivor, a cancer survivor, 284 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 3: but a cancer thriver. Right. It sounds corny, but cancer 285 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 3: patients need to feel that they really do. 286 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: I appreciate you putting in the point of if it's 287 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: as you know, as long as you feel comfortable with 288 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: it too, because I remember being in a relationship where 289 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: it's like the person wanted something and I'm like, that 290 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: doesn't make me feel comfortable, and I would start to then, okay, 291 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: entertain it, and I just remember not feeling good about 292 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: it at all, and later on it's I've had to, 293 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: you know, work on that, because I'm like, it felt 294 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: like a violation even though I went for it, but 295 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to make them happy, but it didn't didn't 296 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: make me happy, and I didn't like the way that 297 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: that felt. And so I think that's a really key piece, 298 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: is to able to have those conversations but also checking 299 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: in you're with yourself going wait, do I like this? 300 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: Do I want to do this? 301 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 3: And for me? For me like does it still do? 302 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: Because I think women I'm not. I'll just say for me, 303 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: what I did is I want to please. I've wanted 304 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: to please other partners, make them happy. But then I 305 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: don't I lose myself in it, you know. And that's 306 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: something that I learned over years, you know, over the years 307 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: of being where I'm at now obviously an older and 308 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: in my body and knowing what I like and what 309 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: I want to while also meeting my partner where he 310 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: wants as well. So I just I think that's a really. 311 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, really big point. You hit on so many things 312 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 3: that we can riff off of, because when we look 313 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 3: at pleasure and how many women orgasm or just express 314 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 3: that they got pleasure from a sexual relationship. It's actually 315 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 3: lower in the twenties and early thirties because there's so 316 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 3: much performative aspect. But when women get into their forties 317 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 3: their fifties, they start really saying, wait a minute, I've 318 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 3: got one life, I want to do things for me, 319 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 3: and the other thing that the reason this is important 320 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 3: is the evolution of internet dating right, which when we 321 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 3: were kids wasn't even a thing, and it's now been 322 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,479 Speaker 3: a thing for a little while, and it's super common. 323 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 3: I mean, you know how so many people internet date 324 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 3: even coupled people. Twenty five percent of people on Match 325 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 3: have committed relationships already, So it's really crazy, I know. 326 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,959 Speaker 3: But the point is that if you're on an internet 327 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,719 Speaker 3: dating site, a don't do anything you don't want to do. 328 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 3: That's obvious. But this has been almost for the first 329 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 3: time in the history of sex where people could go 330 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 3: from having a partner or a partner and an affair 331 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 3: to if they want, have five different dates that week 332 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 3: and five different people with different sexual needs. So it 333 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 3: means women have been coming and droves into my clinic saying, either, ay, 334 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 3: this is exciting, I've never experienced a lot of this, 335 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 3: and I feel like I'm learning a lot a lot 336 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 3: of different stuff, or be I'm kind of terrified. People 337 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 3: are asking me to do things I've never done. And 338 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 3: so it's almost two groups of women, and my job 339 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 3: is to make both feel okay and to make both 340 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 3: understand that some safe expansion of your sexual repertoire can 341 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 3: be really liberating and fun and make you feel kind 342 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 3: of fresh and good, you know, but also don't have 343 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 3: people pressure you. You know. The most common thing women 344 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 3: fear that they've never done is anal sex, and they're like, well, 345 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 3: I was married to Harold for twenty years and we 346 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 3: never did that, and now on Tinder, this guy wants 347 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 3: me to do that, and I think it's just an 348 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 3: individual decision. But I also try to teach them about 349 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 3: if you think you want to do this and you've 350 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 3: never thought about it, you don't want to think about 351 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 3: lub as some shameful thing. Lub is your friend, and 352 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 3: lub is good at any age, any stage, but even 353 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 3: specifically for anal sex, Loube, you want a specificlub for that, 354 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 3: we'll just call it sturdier. And so there's a lot 355 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 3: of education and I love it. I love feeling like 356 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 3: I'm helping these women to explore what could be for them. 357 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 2: You're such a tender and empowering spirit. That's what I 358 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 2: think I enjoy most. You're just so comfortable, like it 359 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 2: feels like we could ask or talk about anything. So 360 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 2: I love that that tone carries into books where people 361 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 2: can maybe in podcasts where people can listen in their 362 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 2: own little sweet protective orbit or read when they you know, 363 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 2: feel comfortable. 364 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: What is the biggest myth around the gap of all 365 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: of this? 366 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 3: Well, okay, so if we define the bedroom gap as 367 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 3: the difference in expectations and ability between partners mostly male female, 368 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 3: but also female partners, the biggest I don't know what 369 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 3: the biggest. I mean, there's so many myths. I think 370 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 3: the biggest sexual myth we all grew up with and 371 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 3: still are stuck under the umbrella of is the concept 372 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 3: that women, all women should be able to orgasm from 373 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 3: penis and vagina sex. Most women need the glitterist stimulated 374 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 3: with a finger, a mouth, a handheld shower as something. 375 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 3: And the clitterist is a pretty big organ but only 376 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 3: the little tip of it is what we see externally. 377 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 3: But internally it's every bit as big as a penis 378 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,479 Speaker 3: and some balls. It's got like paired bulbs. It's like, 379 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 3: you know, that big. And I think if women understood 380 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 3: that just because Hollywood and porn portray women having an 381 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 3: orgasm from penis and vagina sex, they would understand that 382 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 3: only maybe fifteen or twenty percent of women actually do that. 383 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 3: G spot is a real thing. It's a little collection 384 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 3: of nerves. It's where we do o shots, right, we 385 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 3: inject some PRP into the G spot. But some women 386 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 3: that's very underdeveloped. It's just not a very sensitive thing. 387 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 3: And so they're just not going to orgasm from penis 388 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 3: and vagina sex. And I don't think women should feel 389 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 3: shame about that. I think they should understand that their 390 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 3: orgasm is something they should own, and the best way 391 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 3: to own it is to know your own anatomy and 392 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 3: to know what gives you pleasure and if that pleasure 393 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 3: requires a toy. A sex toy is a wonderful thing, 394 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 3: and you should shop for the one you want. You 395 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 3: should treat it like you'd treat shoes. There's no reason 396 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 3: you only need one, and you should. 397 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: Keep checking in doctor Maria. 398 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, we need doctor Maria out on tour. 399 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 3: With I think so. I mean, as someone who probably 400 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 3: never could have enough boots, I think it's the same 401 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 3: thing with toys. In my office, it's like we go shopping. 402 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 3: I have big beautiful cases and people tell me about 403 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 3: what isn't right, and then I go, hold on, let's 404 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 3: go shopping, and they look at me like I'm confused. 405 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 3: I'm like, just get up, get up, and We go 406 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 3: to the cases and I show them what the different 407 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 3: toys do, and they're shocked. They assume all toys involve 408 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 3: something that looks like a penis that goes inside you. 409 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 3: Those things were designed by men, right, And while they're 410 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 3: still wonderful, there are plenty of other things out there 411 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 3: that can make you feel good, even non genitally. I 412 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 3: teach women to masturbate in what I call g rated masturbation. 413 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 3: Put something soft and vibrating on your inner arms, on 414 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 3: the sides of your breasts, on your thighs, places that 415 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 3: feel nice to be touched, but without a sexual expectation. Right. 416 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 3: Women have to stop being like it's all about the 417 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 3: organism and I have to get there or I failed. 418 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 3: I think when you take that pressure off and just 419 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 3: focus on pleasure. And again, before you can become a 420 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 3: marathon runner, you've got to walk. So just walk. And 421 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 3: when you walk, well, walk briskly, and when you feel 422 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,479 Speaker 3: like it, jog and then you can run. And I 423 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 3: think a lot of it is de mystifying. You talked 424 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 3: about a myth. Take the stigma away from I didn't 425 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 3: have an orgasm, so sex sucked. Just try to focus 426 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 3: on the pleasure. Whether that's just naked cuddle time or 427 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 3: a shower together, or touching yourself by yourself and just 428 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 3: let yourself really be in the moment of the pleasure 429 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 3: of that. It sounds so corny and woo woo, but 430 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 3: it's honestly a really empowering thing for women to take 431 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 3: that pressure off of themselves. 432 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: Well, doctor Maria, we really appreciate you coming on for 433 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: part one, because we will part to it after we 434 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: read and y'all read The Bedroom Gap, which is available now, 435 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: a roadmap for midlife women, couples, clinicians, and anyone wanting 436 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: to understand and change how we age sexually speaking. Thank 437 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 1: you so much for coming on. 438 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 3: You're welcome. It was so great to talk with you 439 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 3: appreciate it.