1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: day we bring you insight and analysis into the most 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: important legal news of the day. You can find more 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. It's the committee 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: that has the power to impeach the president, and it's 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: escalating its investigation into the administration's activities, the president's businesses, 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: and its potential ties to Russia. The House Judiciary Committee 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 1: is demanding documents from the White House, as well as 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: the president's company, charity, transition team, inauguration, and twenty sixteen campaign. 11 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: Joining me is the former U S Attorney for Georgia, 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: Michael Moore. He's now a partner at Pope mclamery. Thanks 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: for joining me. I'm glad to be with What struck 14 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: you most about the document request? Where do you see 15 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: the most danger for President Trump? You know, I felt 16 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: all along with this case, whether it be through Bob Mueller, 17 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: whether it be through the Southern District of New York, 18 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: and now perhaps through some of the House committees, that 19 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: this is gonna be a case about following the money 20 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: and so what we're seeing is in fact the Democrats 21 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: reaching out and closing some of the holes that we've 22 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: we've had hanging out in this VS. Case for the 23 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: last couple of years. I mean, a lot of this 24 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: could be resolved if we just had the president's tax returns. 25 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: He refused to do that looks to be like, now 26 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: the Democrats are going to move forward, they need to 27 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: know what what money is owed, what interest was deducted, 28 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,919 Speaker 1: who were creditors, was in fact rushing money and fused 29 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: through the business or through through the Trump organization. And 30 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: so those those things to me are probably um what 31 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: I look forward to be some of the most damning evidence. 32 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: There are sweeping requests that cover possible corruption, abusive power, 33 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: obstruction of justice. The Chairman, Jerry Nadler said, this isn't 34 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: part of an early impeachment inquiry, but does it look 35 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: that way? You know, Um, I think impeachment is further 36 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: down the road. UM. I have a real question on 37 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: whether or not there's a political appetite it forward and 38 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: what exactly you know, the Chairman and connection with the Speaker, 39 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: what decisions they may make about how how to move 40 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: that forward. I know there's some maybe newer members of 41 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: Congress who feel like that's what's immediately what the Democrats 42 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: ought to do. But I do think that again, that's 43 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: a political process. The question from will will be I think, 44 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: through this investigation and through what we learned ultimately from 45 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: Bob Mueller's report, um, is there evidence of a high 46 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 1: crime or misdemeanor, and the Congress will decide those standards, uh, 47 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: and we'll decide how much proof in fact they have. 48 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: I know some people want to say, well, the House 49 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: will impeach because there's not enough votes in the Senate. 50 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true or not, or I 51 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: don't know if at some point the Repolis will make 52 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: a collective decision that the president and and you know, 53 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: his his his circle uh might be too large of 54 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: an albatross to have around their necks going into those 55 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: are Those are big political considerations. But I think that 56 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: you may see uh some evaluations of that once we 57 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: know exactly what evidence Bob Mueller has. What we have 58 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: now in the public record are pretty significant connections and 59 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 1: ties with Russia. UH. We can't get around the idea 60 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: that there was this Russian meeting. We can't get around 61 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: the fact that there was an attempt to cover that up. 62 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: We know that Poland data was shared. We know for 63 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: some reason Manaford was brought into the campaign and became 64 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: the bastic of the manager of the campaign, uh without pay. 65 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: We know that there was discussions about sanctions. We know 66 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: that Mike Flynn's testimony is still working, that he's given 67 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: Moller a lot of information that we don't yet have 68 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: disclosure of at this point. So I think there are 69 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: a lot of shoes left to drop, But I can 70 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: tell you with what's already out there. Um, you know, 71 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: there's it's it's some pretty damning information against the president. Now. 72 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: Democratic leaders say that the all subpoena the special Counsel's 73 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: report if Attorney General William Barr declines to hand it over, 74 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: and they'll sue to enforce the subpoena. President Nixon lost 75 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: his fight over the secret White House tapes in court. Well, 76 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: this fight go that way? Or do you think that 77 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: the things have changed in the court since then? You know, 78 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: I think that obviously there's been a change in the court. 79 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: But let me tell you. You know, there's been some 80 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: discussion about whether or not there would be privileged provisions 81 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: of the reports that shouldn't come out. Remember that executive 82 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: privilege was never meant to be a shield to protect 83 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: people from criminal conduct. Uh. There's a legitimate purpose to 84 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: have executive privilege, and that is to have deliberative discussions. 85 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: That's to be able to talk about policy things in private. Um. 86 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: But it's never it's never meant to be sort of 87 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: the cloak of protection against criminal prosecution. And that's that's 88 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: what it's being used for today. So you've got the 89 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: question of privilege. You also have the question, now how 90 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: much under the regulations of the report of motors report 91 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: might come out under the new Attorney general. It sounded 92 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: like during this confirmation here and he was not a 93 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: big fan of just letting the whole thing out, and 94 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: that he was going to try and to follow that. 95 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: And but remember those regulations are sort of the product 96 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: of this the Keen Star era, when we had you know, 97 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: these these uh, you know, sort of softcore porn almost 98 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: uh reports out there, put out with great public fanfare 99 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: and all the scandalous details, and so there was they 100 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: were looking for some way, I think to sort of 101 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: put the reins on that. Um. I think you could 102 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: see people subpoena. And I think you know, whether or 103 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: not there was an enforcement of Bob Mueller subpoena, that 104 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: would be a question or whether or not he would 105 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: he would feel like he should come forward. You might 106 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: find him joining that because he's particularly respect respectful of 107 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: his role, of his the breadth of his authority. Uh. 108 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: And I think of the process as a whole. So 109 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: I don't think you're going to see him out there 110 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: on a voluntary tell all stage. UM. But I also 111 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: think the public has a significant interest in having information 112 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: about the president, about the administration, about these ties that 113 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: have been alleged with a foreign government. UM. And you're 114 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: going to see, I think enormous political pressure for a 115 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 1: lot of that information to come out. So you may 116 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: have some committee hearings, you may have some subpoenas, you 117 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: may have somebody stand up and read the report from 118 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: the floor. You know, of what are the chambers? I mean, 119 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: who knows at that point. But UM, I do think 120 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: there's a benefit in getting in getting information out. On 121 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: the other side of that, UM, I'll tell you that 122 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 1: the Justice Department typically as a rule, does not like 123 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: to drag people through the mud who are not going 124 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: to be criminally prosecuted. In other words, you might do 125 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: an investigation, find there is no evidence. You don't take 126 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: somebody and just drag them on sort of air all 127 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: their public dirty laundry out to to for everybody to 128 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: see if if you're not gonna move forward the case. 129 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: That hadn't necessarily been the standard that's been followed in 130 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: recent years. Um, but that's the that's the reasoning behind 131 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: that policy. So it's fighting some balance between the public's 132 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: right to know, the policy of protecting innocent people, the 133 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: fact that this is a taxpayer fund and investigation, and 134 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: the ongoing investigations through Congress into the president and his 135 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: business operations. It will be finding that that that balance 136 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: and hopefully, you know, cooler heads will will prevail there. 137 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: Hopefully we just have about a minute here. There have 138 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: been reports for months about a large number of sealed 139 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: criminal indictments on the federal court docket in d C. 140 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: Speculation that they could be connected to Mueller's inquiry. Knowing 141 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: what you do about him, do you think that's likely. 142 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: I think it's likely. I think that the Special Council's 143 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: Office is very likely uh U seal indictments again in 144 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: connection with the idea that there may may have been 145 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: pardners promised or whether or not they can indict a president, 146 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: they could always go back, remember and try to charge 147 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: the president's company, so they could charge his son, and 148 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: they could charge his son in law, they could charge 149 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: his company. At that point, MULA would not have been 150 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: violating the Office Legal Council's guidance about indicting a sitting president, 151 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: but would rather be able to talk about the acts 152 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: of this president as he led the company while at 153 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: the same time charging people connect with the company who 154 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: happened to be very close to the president. So I 155 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: think it's very likely that there are sealed indictments out 156 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: there that that that we've we've yet to learn about. 157 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: Pleasure having you on, hope you'll come back again. That's 158 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,119 Speaker 1: Michael Moore's former U S attorney for Georgia and he's 159 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: a partner with Pope mclamery. Thanks for listening to the 160 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can subscribe and listen to the 161 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: show on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and on bloomberg dot com 162 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: slash podcast. I'm June Brosso. This is Bloomberg