WEBVTT - White Collar Job Losses Will Trickle Down In A Bad Way 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:04.120 Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, along 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:06.200 with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:10.360 we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:13.600 along with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:17.000 Podcast on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.720 and on Bloomberg dot com. It is time now to 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:24.160 welcome Danielle di Martineau, boost CEO and director of Intelligence 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:27.200 at Quill Intelligence. Of course, Danielle's former advisor at the 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.480 Dallas Fed and also a Bloomberg opinion columnists and she's 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.839 based in Dallas. Danielle, what do you make of the 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:37.000 idea that we may not get stimulus before the election 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.960 while the pandemic lingers. So there's that, and that will 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:47.080 definitely put a pin in any kind of burgeoning recovery 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:51.080 that we're seeing. Well, I think that there are two 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:55.200 different factors at work in today's market. One of them 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.400 is that there's this underlying weakness that is going to 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:02.320 continue to play out and stay and local employment for example, 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.399 in in in families who are just getting by and 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:10.959 we're waiting patiently as as they could for that next 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:15.640 true stimulus package that provided them with a weekly jolt 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.880 of of income while they continue to wait out a 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:23.600 full and escape velocity, if you will, reopening of the 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.479 U S economy. The other thing I think that's at 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:29.920 play today, though, is the market trying to wrap its 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:35.360 head around quantitatively what the stop gap measures will accomplish. 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.320 There is a lot of money in Uncle Sam's checking account, 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.399 the Treasury General account, and money that can be can 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:45.959 be pulled upon. But what what will what will it 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:50.240 do to say, keep the airline workers on payrolls versus 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.360 the rest of the country that needs stimulus measures not 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.320 receiving them. What might do you can those checks come 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.800 out before election day? And most importantly, I think what's 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:05.800 driving trading today is rumblings on trading floors about Bill 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.240 Gates saying we might not need a vaccine. If what 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.239 treated President Trump is as good as it is, we 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.120 might be able to move past the pandemic with just 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:20.280 treatments in hand. So, Danielle, you know, the the administration 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.960 is touting uh, the declining unemployment rate, the fact that 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.440 the people are going back to work, But at the 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.720 same time we see big companies like the Walt Disney 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.519 Company talking about, you know, laying off an additional twenty 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.480 eight thousand employees. What is your sense as to the 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:41.160 underlying health of the employment market or lack there of 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:45.480 in the United States. Well, I think it's more important 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:49.040 to look past. Twenty eight thousand is a huge mass 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.920 layoff figure. It gates gets a lot of headlines, but 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.000 two thirds of those workers were part time, So the 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:59.000 economic the macroeconomic impact is not nearly as bad as 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.160 well as fargoes intent this morning that it was going 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.960 to be laying up and another seven hundred employees of 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:08.239 KPMG announcing that it would be laying off white collar 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:12.160 workers in tax and auditing and consulting UM. The list 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.000 goes on and on of companies that are beginning to 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:19.600 cut at headquarters salaried employees. If you looked at the 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:23.880 job openings data yesterday, the worst category by far was 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:28.320 business and professional services, and in Friday's Peril Report we 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.640 saw three consecutive months of losses again in business and 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:35.440 professional services. These are the highest paying positions that account 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:39.000 for the vast majority of US consumption, and they will 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.720 continue As these white collar job losses percolate through the economy. 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:44.960 That will continue to trickle down, but not in a 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.040 good way to the smaller businesses that are still holding 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:53.080 on but in need of their of their business. So, Danielle, 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:56.520 what happens next? How does the economy recover? How do 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.440 people get by? I mean what the federals are has 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.800 done as much as it can. There's possibly things that 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:03.960 can do. It says, it's toolbox is never empty. But 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:09.080 essentially this is a federal government issue. Does Joe Biden 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:11.480 need to get elected and then, you know, implement a 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:16.480 huge amount of stimulus. Well, I think the scenario that 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.719 the ladder of the two scenarios that you just painted 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.400 out has been playing out in the bond market for 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:23.880 the better part of a week now. We've seen bond 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.200 yields break out of a very tight range in which 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:30.520 they've been stuck anticipating some massive stimulus spending bill. Uh. 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:34.760 If Biden is victorious on on election day or in 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:38.200 the days that follow, the question I have though for 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.440 all politicians inside the Beltway is whether or not they're 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:44.760 going to be looking to implement some programs that have 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:50.719 proven successful in Germany, jobs, reskills, training, vocational training, infrastructure 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.919 spending more than throwing money at people who who need it. 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:56.520 And I'm not saying we should put people out on 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.599 the street by any means, but more than that, actually 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.279 pro biting means by which people can get back into 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.840 the workforce forcibly the way that it was done years 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.400 ago in the New Deal, when there were no bridges 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.480 and tunnels. Now we just have crumbling bridges and tunnels 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.560 and roads that need to be repaired. I would hope 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:19.120 that the Order of Business number one would be looking 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.239 to stimulus spending measures that not just make sure people 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.880 were put back on their feet, but also that gave 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:29.839 them job opportunities. So, Danielle, we heard from FED Chairman 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:34.280 pal You speaking yesterday at an economics conference calling for 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:39.520 fiscal stimulus. Yet again, um does Congress listen to to 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.760 FED chair people when FED chairman when they do speak 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:48.880 about fiscal stimulus, Well, congress is track record is pretty 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.440 is pretty spotty on that account. Bernanke spent years of 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:56.320 his career as head of the fed UH pleading with 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.000 Congress to do more on the fiscal side and to 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.960 be more creative on a fiscal side, and he got 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.080 the heisman time and again, which is why we ended 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:07.359 up having q E two and que three. Uh. The 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.520 problem I have with with Powell, though, is on a 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:12.599 more fundamental level, and that is that it appears that 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.080 most of the Fed's tools in the toolbox are broken. 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.080 And the one thing that that Powell knows he can 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:22.880 do if there's fresh treasury issuance in order to finance 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:27.960 stimulus spending, it is by those bonds via quantitative eavening 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.760 that filters back into the stock market. Daniel d Martino Booth, 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:33.680 thank you so much for joining us yet again. We 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:37.080 always appreciate your insights. Danielle de Martino Boots, CEO and 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:41.080 directive intelligence at Quill Intelligence, former advisor at the Dallas 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:45.000 Federal Reserve, and a Bloomberg Opinion columnists. Also you know 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:49.520 just extraordinary book. She's the author of fed Up, an 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:54.679 insider's take on why the Federal Reserve is bad for America. 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.440 It is time for Bloomberg Opinion on Bloomberg Radio. Tai 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:02.039 Kim Technology Commas for Bloomberg Opinion joins is here. There's 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:06.039 some significant news out recently. The House of Representatives out 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:10.520 with a report suggesting some key regulatory oversight provisions for 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:15.120 some of the biggest tech companies out there, including Apple, Google, Amazon, 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.320 and Facebook. Take Kim, thanks for joining us. We really 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.640 appreciate it. How it just give us a sense of 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:24.760 what the House report says and how worried does some 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.760 of these tech companies be. I think the technology companies 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:32.520 should be worried. Um, this report was four hundred fifty pages. 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.560 The subcommittee poured over one point three million documents, and 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:39.520 they really laid out the case and a pattern of 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.360 anti competite behavior by each and every one of these 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.840 big tech companies. And it kind of lays our role 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.680 map and a case for action over in that coming year. 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.320 And they gave a bunch of remedies. Some of them 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:54.200 more aggressive ones may not happen and buy pars in Congress, 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.040 but you never know what happens with the November election. 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.800 If there's a Democratic sweep, and I do think we're 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.200 gonna there's a good chance some of these remedies will 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.040 be pointed action in coming. Here do we have an 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:09.280 outline of the types of remedies Congress is looking for? Yeah, 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.280 they have like a dozen things in there. Um. The 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:16.040 most important one is a structural separation of any dominant 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:21.360 platform if they compete with other competitors on their business. UM. 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:25.160 Another big one is a shift of burdener proof. So 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.640 whenever of these big dominant platform big tech companies by 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:30.920 company in the future, UM, they're going to have to 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.760 prove that it's not anti competitive. So the burdener approof 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:37.920 will beyond the technology company to argue that it's not 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.680 anti competitors. So those are two big ones. UM. So 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:44.320 there are a lot of recommendations that they lay it out. 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:48.240 So tell you I think you know. Historically the United 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:52.360 States has taken a very light touch too big tech 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:56.040 in terms of regulations, I guess, preferring to foster innovation. 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.920 And we're gonna argue whether that's been positive or negative, 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.040 but certainly it's helped Silicon Valley. Is there a real 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:07.600 bipartisan support for significantly regulating these big tech companies like 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:12.280 an Amazon, like an Apple? Right now? There isn't bipart 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.720 support for the more aggressive remedies, but there is support 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.400 for certain things such as increasing funding for the antitrust 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:23.319 regulators DEDC and the Anti Trust Division the t o 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:27.400 j UM. But yes, there isn't like the Republicans aren't 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:31.400 a board for more of these uh progressive breakup actions. 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:34.120 Does any of this change if we get a change 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.000 in leadership or even you know, the change in the 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:40.400 Senate for example. I think so like if the Senate 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:44.720 changes and there's a Biden administration. Um, it was reported 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:48.280 earlier this week the Biden the Biden team was given 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:50.760 the heads up on this report. So I think if 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.720 we see a democratic administration, will see some action. Another 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:58.680 thing that the report outlined was UM potential limits on 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:02.520 self preferential behavi year by Google and Apple. So what 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.680 Google does is they kind of bolster their own services 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:10.520 on top of search results and potentially with either the 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.600 d o J, which actually is on the Trump administration, UM, 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.440 potentially putting out the report leader this week or next 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:21.600 week to go after Google in terms of the the antitrust lawsuit. UM, 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.240 that's another thing that that could be put in action. 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:28.199 And also Apples app Store. UM, I could see it 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:33.480 certain legislation to limit Apple from preferential treatment for their 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:38.320 apps and services. So tell you, I think even last year, 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:42.880 I believe it was when the Federal Trade Commission and 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:46.160 the Department of Justice kind of divvied up these big 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.440 tech companies and say, okay, you take a look, you 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:50.959 d J, you take a look at these companies. You 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.560 Federal Trade Commission, you take a look at these companies. 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.040 Is this report in concert with those investigations or is 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.959 it separate from them? And and how are they tied together? 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.600 If at all? So, I think they're pretty separate. This 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:07.719 was the House subcommittee doing their investigation. The d o 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:10.560 j it's is on their own path, and the most 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:14.360 imminent one is a lawsuit that's going to to Google 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:18.640 for their search engine and the dominance and the ad 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.600 platform business. But I do believe they're separate. But they 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.760 all they're all tied in together of greatest scrutiny of 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:29.240 big technology companies because I mean, everyone agrees that these 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:33.280 companies are just so dominant in their markets and something 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.680 needs to be done. And this four hundred fifty page 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:37.960 report really I think it is an important step because 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.840 the outlines the huge pattern of behavior. Uh Specifically, I 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:44.720 think the most egregious is Amazon in terms of how 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:48.960 they know aplied on individual seller data to inform their 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.959 private label business. So there's this great pattern behavior of 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.760 these companies using their market power. And I think this, 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:00.480 this report, this vast report, is really good step in 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.000 terms of going to the next level of actual actions 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.800 against these companies. So these companies, many of them, have 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:12.560 been dealing with or working with these types of issues. 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:14.760 Let's say, in Europe for a very very long time. 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.440 Margaret of s day Or was one of the most 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.920 fierce competition commissioners that the European Commission has ever seen. 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.120 And all of the companies that we're talking about how 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:27.880 to work with her, What lessons can they learn in 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.560 terms of how they deal with Congress? How will how 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.720 will you know what the US wants from these companies 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.400 differ from what the EU wanted and ultimately got from 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.400 most of these companies. So the EU is actually in 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:43.000 progress with a number of these antitrust probes. Also, they 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.640 started a few months ago invest seeing Apple and how 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:50.400 they require their in app purchasing and the fift cut. 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.839 So I think we're actually going to see a lot 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:57.160 of these actions come together at once, and the EU 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.280 is still involved and really working, especially on the Apples. 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.200 So I think we'll see a lot of these governments, 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.240 but they're all all on there are on all their 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:09.640 stuff tracks, like they're not really working together. Um, potentially 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:11.839 we'll see the state, the trained generals and the d 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:13.480 o J I think the d J is trying to 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:17.400 get this data trainee channels on board for their Google lawsuits, 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.760 so they're all on this epic tracks. But I do 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.520 think over the coming year, we're just going to see 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:26.720 more scrutiny action. You look at the stocks, the stocks 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.000 are not worried. Stocks are trading up, they're not trading 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:33.720 down on this news. Particularly. What does that tell you time, Um, 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.400 I think day to day it's it's it's tough to say. 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:40.360 I mean, I think this stuff is going to take 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.679 a long time to get legislated out, a year or 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.400 two at the earliest. I mean, this is not something 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.319 that you could flip on a switch and say, oh, 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:50.880 new Congress to kind of work on it. So it's 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:54.200 gonna take time. And I mean I don't really foresee 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.240 like vast breakup per se, but I do see on 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.680 the margin rule changes limiting acqua eficians, like I said, 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.480 the self preferential behavior and maybe prep and it's not 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.679 being compelled to give up the private business. So I'm 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.120 not saying that you know, they're earning power and gets 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.680 smashed because of their scrutiny, But I do think there 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.199 will be accents where there will be limits to their 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:20.080 behaviors and in terms of crushing competitors and things of that, 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.320 some of that action will will be under this also. 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:26.880 Take him, always a fascinating conversation. Take him as technology 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.040 columnists for Bloomberg Opinion, and we thank him for joining 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.520 us today. And you know, it really is interesting called 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:36.120 you preparing you know, a Digital Services Act, so an 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.120 actual act of regulation. And if you go on a 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.880 website for any of these companies in Europe at the moment, 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:44.760 you know, you have to answer a whole load of 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:49.000 information about you know, what you're allowing them to take 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:50.800 from you in terms of your privacy and so on. 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.480 You don't you don't typically get that yet in the US. 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:57.880 Let's get straight to our next guest. He needs, you know, 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:03.000 is political contributor and professor polit legal science at Iona College, Jennie. 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:05.680 A lot to talk about, not least the VP debate tonight, 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:09.160 but first let's talk about Nancy Pelosi trolling the President 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:10.960 on the view a few moments ago. Having had a 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.240 conversation this morning with Steve Mnuchen about airline aide that 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.880 apparently is going nowhere. Does Donald Trump bite before the 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:22.239 debate tonight? Does he make some kind of unilateral announcement 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.640 or something to do with stimulus. You know, I'm not 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:31.440 very good at predicting what Donald Trump will do. I 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.240 hesitate to do that, but if I had to guess, 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.920 I would say I do think he will respond. Um. 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.440 He was very very active on Twitter, as you know, 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.360 and you've been talking about all night, um and so 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.880 you know from yesterday late yesterday to into today. So 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.120 I would be surprised if he didn't respond. And of 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.640 course this does I have to say, this does work 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:56.600 to the President's advantage. He he wants to um, you know, 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:01.479 set this up as a debate between him and particularly 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.840 the Democratic leadership in the House, led by Nancy Pelosi. 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:06.800 So I think any chance he gets to do that, 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.600 he's going to do that. And this is a way 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.120 to energize his base. So I would be surprised if 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:15.480 he didn't respond. Genny, you know, I want to ask 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:19.240 you about what you think President trump strategy is here. 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.480 But every time I mentioned President Trump and strategy, Tim 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.720 O'Brien Bloomberg Opinion Calmness and long time Trump chronicle or 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.600 tells me that the president does not have a strategy. 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.560 But what do you think his strategy is here so 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:38.280 close to the election, seemingly handing the opposition of victory. Yeah, 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:39.840 and I would have to say, you just made me 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.320 chuckle because Tim is so right about that, and I 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:45.080 would never ever disagree with him on anything to do 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.600 with Trump. Um, and I do think he's right. There 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.480 does not seem to be a strategy. And in this case, 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:53.320 when we were getting these tweets last night, these mixed 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.640 messages about the stimulus package, I was scratching my head 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.360 to try to figure out what could the thing king be. 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.160 For most people running for office, the opportunity to invest 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.880 money into the pockets of the people voting for them 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.879 would be something they would jump at. So the idea 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.280 that the President took that off the table when it 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.480 seemed they were, you know, getting much closer in the 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.800 last few days was absolutely baffling from a sort of 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:22.000 electoral campaign political strategy perspective. And then to your point, 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.760 I had Tim running in my head saying, Okay, well 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.920 maybe there is no strategy here. So you know, it's 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.120 really really hard to tell what the president. The most 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.600 I can say is, on the one hand, he makes 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.600 a case about walking away from the table when you're negotiating, 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:36.879 you have to be prepared to do that, and that 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.160 seems to be what he did last night. And then 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:41.240 he walked back right up to the table a few 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.240 hours later. So you know, we're getting these again mixed 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.879 messages from the president, in which case he can always 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.439 declare victory, and that seems to be sort of par 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:51.600 for the course with him. If there is a deal, 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.440 he can declare victory. If there's not, he can say, see, 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:56.679 I told you so, and I walked away before you know, 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.280 this thing didn't work. Let's I'll forget that this is 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.800 a very very ill man right now as well. And 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.240 while you know, officially he had no symptoms yesterday, he's 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.880 on huge doses of you know, very strong chemicals and 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:13.280 you know apparently at some point that will start to 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:14.720 wear off in the next day or two, after the 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.640 fifth dose of de severe. How much do you think 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:23.119 that that is coloring his stands on things right now? Yeah, 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.919 I mean, this is the million dollar question. And I 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.040 don't think we know, as you just said that his 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.880 doctors are saying that he's showing no symptoms, and yet 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.800 we hear from doctor to you know, say that this 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.159 absolutely can cause you to have a reaction, and that 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:39.720 can be in you know, some kind of psychological way 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.040 as well. So I think the honest answer is that 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.520 none of us know that said um, even if the 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.560 President wasn't on these medicines, I'm not sure any of 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.919 us would be surprised by the tweeting and the decisions 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.359 made in the last twenty four hours visa VI or 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.679 the statements made not decisions visa be some kind of 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.399 stimulus package. I'm not sure what the answer to that is. 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.000 We hope that he is physically and mentally fine and 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.000 that we as the American public, are getting honest answers 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.440 from his doctors. And I don't think after this weekend 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.679 we can be confident about that. Jenny, we do have 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:17.600 a vice presidential debate this evening from Salt Lake City. Uh. 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.520 You know, typically we don't spend pay too much attention 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.199 to these VP debates, but given the ages of the 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.640 two president, the president and the vice president former Vice 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.080 President Biden, seems a little bit more relevant, doesn't it. 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:34.919 It absolutely does. I think in an ideal situation, you know, 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.880 the vice presidential nominees for two men in their seventies 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.000 would be a big deal, as you mentioned. And then 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.080 of course we're in a much different situation, not ideal, 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.719 in the midst of a pandemic, with a president who 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.720 we've just been talking about has been diagnosed is currently 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:55.119 under treatment, we understand, and a former vice president whose 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.919 health has been called into question at numerous times, you know, 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.280 throughout the campaign. So both of those things give this 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.440 sort of vice presidential debate, which normally gets a rather 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:08.000 small audience. I think it's going to get a lot 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.680 more attention tonight for that reason. And then, of course, 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.160 just a week ago we have the you know, sort 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.639 of stunning presidential debate where we didn't get a lot 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.720 of answers in terms of policies. So I think we're 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:22.320 really looking for president vice President Pence to sort of 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:24.840 play clean up for the president and to sort of 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:27.119 fill in some of those gaps that were left and 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.119 try to get a you know, a you know, some 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.080 scoring here for the Republicans in terms of doing a 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.400 better job. Because of course, polls show that the president 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:38.719 did not do well according to voters after that last debate. 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:41.600 So what does sont of they Kamala Harris have to 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.040 do to avoid making a mistake Denny, I think what 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:47.359 she's got to do is focus like a laser beam 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.240 on COVID. I think she's got to prosecute the case, 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:52.479 but do it in a, you know, not a terribly 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.520 stringent way, but bring more evidence forward, if you will, 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.760 that they have not done well. These are the the 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:01.639 American public in terms of managing this crisis, that is 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.199 the pandemic. I think if she can do that for 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.720 a sustained period of time, put Pence on the defensive 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:11.000 trying to defend you know, in many cases what the 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:14.320 administration has done here, she will have succeeded, provided, as 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.600 you mentioned, she doesn't make any mistakes, and it's gonna 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:19.680 be tough. She we haven't seen her in a lot 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:22.199 of one on one debates like this, so we're not 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:25.359 quite sure she's a great prosecutor. She was very good 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:28.000 in the multi person debate, but this is a different 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:31.280 format and Vice President Pence is good at this format, 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.680 and I think he doesn't get enough credit for being 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.119 successful in this venue. No, thank you so much for 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:39.919 joining us. Once again. We appreciate your thoughts here as 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.880 we get ready for the vice presidential debate. Jeniso, political 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:47.760 contributor for Bloomberg News also professor of political science at 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:51.840 iona at College. We always appreciate her thoughts here again, So, Vanni, 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:53.720 you know the markets are going to be you know, 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:55.840 they seem to be not obviously not focused on the 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:59.720 debate tonight, but certainly focused on uh Twitter and the 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:01.520 it's coming out of the White House as it relates 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.879 to fiscal stimus. Is it on again? Is it off again? Um? 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.720 I just don't know. And you know, at some point 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:09.800 the focus will turn to the debate. It it maybe 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:12.040 an hour before the debate, but at some point the president, 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.040 you know, won't be able to keep the limelight if 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.080