WEBVTT - Repairing The Broken Rung for Women at Work 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:09.360 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. You're listening to Bloomberg 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:13.920 BusinessWeek with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:16.320 Well, US job growth studied last month, well on the 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:18.919 unemployment rate rose. It's a mixed snapshot of a job 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.680 market hanging in the balance of a quickly changing government policy. 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:25.680 The labor market is softening, with more people permanently out 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.960 of work, fewer workers on federal government payrolls Carol, and 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:31.840 a jump in those working part time for economic reasons. 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.560 That said, there are still more than seven million jobs 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:36.800 in the United States that remain on filled. That's according 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:40.200 to the latest Joltz data, So there's definitely some imbalance 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:42.559 out there. Debbie Dyson is working to correct that. She 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.360 is the CEO of One ten. It's a nonprofit. It 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.240 works with companies and their leadership to change how they 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.599 hire talent. So basically, people who don't have four year 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:54.480 degrees but have skills are able to get hired. She 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:56.480 joins us from Las Vegas. Debd be great to have 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:58.120 you here with Tim and myself. Tell us a little 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.920 bit more about what you folks are doing and what 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:02.560 actually creates results. 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:05.280 Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me. So, yeah, 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:07.760 I mean, our movement has been really focused again on 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:12.479 identifying organizations that are really looking to elevate their talent strategy. 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:14.720 And if you think about, as you just noted, with 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:19.400 seven million opportunities available and people looking for opportunity, you're 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.400 able to widen your talent pool when you sort of 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:25.520 eliminate or take away that sort of degree requirement that 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.679 currently still have about sixty percent of all jobs that 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:30.920 are asking for one. So we're really trying to just 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.880 widen the pool and give opportunities in a more fair 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.640 balanced manner, you know, across the various industries that exist. 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.400 Which industries are most receptive to this? 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:44.319 Yeah, I mean, so the way that we look at it, 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:46.440 as we look at the variety of different job reports 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:48.480 that I'm sure you've seen as well, Like manufacturing is 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.520 definitely leading the pack. But this is pretty volatile. So 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.919 we've seen manufacturing, you've seen healthcare. You know, we're starting 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:56.400 to see a little bit more of a spike in 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.400 the technology you know it AI as you can probably 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:03.160 well imagine. So those are typically the three leading industries 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:05.800 that we've seen, you know, quarter by quarter, and what 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:10.000 I will say our coalition consistently is asking us for what. 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:12.200 You know, if you could change something that would help 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:13.880 your mission, what would it. 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:20.239 Be candidly demystifying that an individual needs a four year 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:22.760 degree in order to actually get a good job. You know, 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.360 what we're finding is is that talent comes in all 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:28.640 shapes and sizes. You have individuals that are unable to 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:31.120 complete a four year degree, but they've been working for 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.280 the last twenty years and they're trying to apply for opportunities, 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:36.880 but the job description indicates that they need a four 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.000 year degree. Well, if you can eliminate or recredential that 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.560 particular job, imagine the opportunities that are able to be open. 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.480 So there's a little bit of a legacy we've been 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:48.600 you know, we've all been doing this for decades of 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:52.120 interviewing people and looking right away. When you use AI 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.040 technology to scrape resumes and say only look for people 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.720 with degrees, you're leaving behind about sixty six percent of 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:02.280 Americans that are immediate eliminated because of this requirement. So 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.120 it's not to say that we're discouraging people from be 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.800 dating to degree. We're just saying widen the pool and 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.000 allow others to be part of the opportunity as well. 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.720 W you spent a lot of your career working for corporations. 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:17.040 You're former president of ADP National account Services, So you 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.840 know that when hiring committees get together and when they 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:24.400 look at folks for jobs, a lot of times they 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:26.680 do look at that four year degree. 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.040 Exactly exactly, Yeah, I mean I was in human capital management. 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:33.200 I mean, you know, part of a talent strategy is 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.760 making sure again that you're trying to broaden, you know, 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.240 the individuals that are qualified. And so the way that 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:40.720 you think about it is, if you really want to 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:42.840 get to the right type of talent, what are the 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:46.640 actual skills that you need to gain the employment and 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.680 the ability to actually flourish and have a sustainable career. 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:53.240 Most of those of us, excuse me, have learned what 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.440 we've learned through on the job training. It wasn't so 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.120 much my degree. It helped perhaps open a door, but 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.800 most of what I was able to obtain was through 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.520 on the job and skills that I gathered through the career. 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:05.880 So that's what we're trying to educate, is to just 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:07.440 help manage your see beyond. 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.480 Well, that's to Tim's point, Debbie, though, like, tell us 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.120 how many instances you know, once you're you know, kind 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.840 of inside a corporate setting, you see how you know 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.120 things work, how decisions are made. And I'm just curious 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:22.280 from your time spent in corporate America how often somebody 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.640 is a great candidate or but they don't have a 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.279 college degree or something like, you know, what goes on 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.520 internally in terms of the standards. I feel like at 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:33.080 a lot of organizations they still want to see at 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.799 least a college degree. We kind of make the comments 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.320 when I graduated, college degree was enough. I didn't need 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:40.800 a master's. Now today I have a daughter coming out 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:42.599 of college. He's like, I'm going to need master's to 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.800 do anything for anybody to look at me, you know, 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:48.240 to really advance. Like, how do we get away from 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:48.960 that mind thing? 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:51.560 Yeah? I mean, look, if you think about it, the 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.160 way that we try to go about it is you 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:56.400 take a pool of say one hundred typical types of jobs, 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:58.400 and you lay them out and say, what are the 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.680 actual requirements that are needed? And you literally start with 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.039 the skills that are required. Now, I'm not, by any 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.320 means suggesting that one hundred percent of all jobs do 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.520 not require a degree. They are absolutely jobs that you 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:10.520 must you know, would I think we would all feel 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:12.720 comfortable if our doctor had a degree, or a lawyer 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.279 or engineer or roles like that. But there are other 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:18.920 front entry level positions that really would not require a degree. 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.520 So we try to get managers and leaders to think 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:23.960 about the skills that are needed first. That's why it's 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.080 called skills first. Think of the skills first, and then 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.559 think about every other requirement. And as you go through 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:34.400 you will find, in a sixty forty sort of situation 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.440 that the skills are first of a priority rather than 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:39.480 a degree. And that's all that we're trying to do 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.000 is even the playing field so that everybody has an 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:44.080 opportunity to hopefully get a great job. 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.640 Oh Devin listening to one of the recent Azrakline podcasts. 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.039 It's run like ten or fifteen minutes into it, but 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:54.000 he's interviewing Ben Buchanan, who is an AI advisor in 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:58.000 the Biden Whitehouse, and part of the interview, he says 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.440 something along the lines of any anybody who's it's behind 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.040 it or in front of a computer, their job will 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.599 be at risk when it comes to AI. Debbie, how 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:10.720 do you think about that when you think about while 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:15.119 the employment picture changes in the coming years, and whether 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:17.800 or not a degree is even necessary in a world 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:22.920 where we'll have this technology with AGI. 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.440 Yeah, I mean, look, I think there's a piece around AI. 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.400 I mean, obviously it's real, it's here, and I do 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.239 think that there's an opportunity that there are many front 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:36.640 entry level positions that are more manual in effort that 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.560 could be automated through AI that will be eliminated. But 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.600 it is not every single job. We all know that 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:44.840 in order for AI to be efficient and work, there 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.520 are people behind it that have to program it. So 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.640 what we've been encouraging talent and even employers to think 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.960 about is who do you need in your organization to 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.960 help feed the engine for AI. It doesn't just learn, 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:59.440 even though we might think that on its own, someone 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:03.039 has to. So we're trying to now equip learners and 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.239 talent to think about how do you contribute to AI 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.039 to be part of the solution, opposed to running the 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.720 other direction and thinking your job's going to be eliminated. 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.760 It's almost like a it's a coworker, so sit side 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:18.160 by side and not necessarily the elimination it's just elevate. 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.600 Entry level positions absolutely are probably at risk. But there's 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.680 a whole other plethora of opportunities that we see beyond 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.040 AI that won't be replaced but could be enhanced by 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:30.400 human touch to some degree. 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.080 Yeah, it's interesting. There's a story that is among the 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:34.760 most read on the Bloomberg and has to do with 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.600 junior bankers on Wall Street how they are anxious about 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:39.560 the as of AI and they're worried that it's going 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:43.239 to minimize their learning opportunities and make them weaker employees 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.040 in the long run. Right, Like, you're not going to 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:46.880 pull in a junior player to say, hey, help me 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:48.920 with this deal. I'm the senior player. I'm going to 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.880 teach you things. You know, we're not going to maybe 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.360 we can just do something ourselves or use AI or 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:57.800 what have you, especially in some of those tedious tasks. 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:01.040 So you do wonder what the impact be. I am 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:08.119 curious what you are looking to help individuals? Are companies create, 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.600 you know, help individuals to upscale? What are the number 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:14.880 one or two skills that need to be taught? 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:18.800 So you have there are two skills factors that we 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.200 talk about. There's technical skills, and then I would say 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:24.080 softer or durable skills. And so on the technical side, 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.320 you're hearing a lot more around sort of critical think gain. 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.000 You're thinking more around that analytical just as we talked 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:32.800 about AI. It's the analysis of it. You know, it's 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.000 one thing to get data, it's a whole other thing 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:36.960 to sort of interpret it. So we see a lot 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:40.160 more around that. When you go to the soft skills, 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.680 I think pieces that when there's hesitancy about using skills, 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.280 it's where do you learn the ability to be a 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:50.200 great collaborator, how do you think about resiliency. So part 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.800 of the package more or less when you think about 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.480 skills is the combination of technical skills that you need 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.560 to do the technical aspects, but the ability to obviously 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:03.240 have this off skills on verbal and presentation skills that 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:05.360 you know. Some would argue that you do learn when 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.160 you're in more of a collegiate environment. And so we're 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.120 trying to fill both gaps so that there's not a 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.760 shortage to say, yeah, you gave me somebody that had 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:14.079 this piece, but they're lacking that. 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.920 Hey, just to get just thirty seconds back to that 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:18.760 story that I mentioned on the Bloomberg. I mean, what 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.240 happens to the entry level? Does it go away? 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:21.680 Though? 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.760 I mean because of AI and so people don't get 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:26.720 that opportunity. 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:28.520 Yeah, you know, look, I think there's a reality that 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:30.560 a good portion of it will, and so I think 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.280 that is why we're trying to get learners at a 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.400 little bit more of an advanced date in their career, 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:37.959 so that it's not just starting at entry maybe you're 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.240 more mid management, and that you're starting at a more 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.520 seasoned and tenured But yeah, it's a risk, there's no 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:43.320 question at all. 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:45.040 All Right, we got a run. Hey listen, thank you 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.680 so much. Good to check in with you and have 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.600 a great weekend. Debbie Dyson, chief executive officer of one ten, 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:52.240 joining us from Las Vegas. 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:54.080 Well fair to say our audience is familiar with the 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:58.559 glass ceiling Carol, Yes, billiar yes, ok, yeah, Okay, I 0:09:58.640 --> 0:09:59.080 heard of it. 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:01.520 Yeah, all right, waiting for me to say like I've 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:02.120 hit a. 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.400 No no no. But you know, it's a rhetorical question 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:06.960 that you know, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, what about 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:07.600 the broken wrung? 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.160 Uh? Not as much I. 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:10.880 Didn't know about this. 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:11.600 Yeah. 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.280 Lorena Yee argues that it actually holds women back in 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:17.080 their careers more so than the glass ceiling. So let's 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:18.880 get right to it. Loraina Ye is senior partner in 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.760 McKinsey and Company, also chair of the McKenzie Tech Council. 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:24.400 For forthcoming book, it's out next week, we got a 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.680 preview of it. It's called The Broken Wrong When the 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.160 career ladder breaks for women and how they can succeed 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.880 in spite of it. Lorena, thanks for joining us. What 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:33.160 is the broken wrung? 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:39.080 So much so as you're thinking about your career, imagine 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.960 an actual physical ladder. Every single step is a promotion. 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:44.480 So here's what we found. 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.000 That first step is often broken for women. And here's 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.680 what I mean. For every one hundred men that get 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:54.520 that first promotion opportunity, only eighty one women in the 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.199 United States will see that same opportunity. And if you're 0:10:58.200 --> 0:10:59.839 a woman of color, and if you are a black 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:02.800 women in the United States, that number is fifty four. 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.679 And that's why while we're all looking at that glass ceiling, 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:08.360 which is real and exists, and you know there are 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.640 a couple of women kind of cracking through there, the 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.760 big numbers are at that first run and that's where 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:14.520 we're losing women. 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.959 So what's the solution here. It sounds like you've identified 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:22.320 the problem. Yes, that's a big part of it, I'm guessing. 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:25.520 I mean, part of it is identifying the problem so 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:27.280 we can at least see it. But what's more important 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.400 is what do you go do about it? So, you know, 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:31.920 there's been a lot of programs and companies that have 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.720 endeavored to make the playing field more level address it, 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.360 but really what we wanted to explore is what women 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:41.360 themselves can do and how fitting on International Women's Day, 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:43.800 So one of the things that we uncovered is this 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.800 concept of experience capital. So if you think about it, 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:48.679 it's kind of a fancy term for the fact that 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:52.520 fifty percent of your lifetime earnings depends on what you 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:56.160 learn on the job. So women are exceptional students, they 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.320 graduate at higher rates than men, they get better GPAs, 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:03.120 but they don't excel per se in the workplace. And 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:07.680 so how you strategically and tactically gain that experience capital 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.680 to get the other fifty percent is a huge piece 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:11.240 of the answer. 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.880 So what's your top advice to women who are listening 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:15.680 right now and thinking about what you're saying. 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.120 Well, we have lots of advice, but I think my 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.880 top one is to make big, bold moves in your career. 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:25.600 And that's where you have a skilled distance of twenty 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.040 five percent between what you did before and what you're 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.240 doing going forward. And we know this has a huge effect. 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.160 Think of it as like putting money into your savings 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.120 account and being able to see that grow. When you 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.800 make those big bold bets on yourself and on your 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:42.920 career and stretch, that has a huge effect. I would 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.040 say two other things that are really important is spend 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.800 time in your career in the power alley, and what 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.280 I mean by that is spend time in P and 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.360 L roles or profit and loss roles, so that even 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:56.720 if you don't want to do that permanently, you have 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.079 a good understanding of the core of the business. And 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.080 the last one is it's not a solo act. You're 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:05.880 going to need a village around you, and that means 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.240 that you need sponsors, not just mentors who are empathetic, 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.079 but people who open the doors and windows in your career. 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.160 Is that better now that it has been in recent years, 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.960 given that we do see more women in positions of 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:20.000 powers and companies. 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.800 So I mean when we say, we need we see 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:25.240 more women. Let's put a number on them. 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.839 Yeah, well, in terms of CEOs, it doesn't look great. 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.360 It doesn't look great. And so one layer under when 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.800 I started this research a decade ago, we saw about 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.120 you know, we saw about nineteen percent women at the top. 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.160 Now we see twenty nine percent. Those are hard earned numbers, 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:43.480 so that's good. But at the end of the day, 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.480 what we systematically see is that women have more narrow, 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:50.160 more junior networks. And what's really important is to have broader, 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.920 more senior networks. The thing is, you can't build a 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.360 network overnight. You're going to actually need to start working 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.440 on it day one of your career and slowly build 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.880 that out. And one of the things that's really important 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.120 is don't just build a network with the people you 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.800 work with and in the company you work with. Build 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.200 a network beyond the company that you're in. You're going 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.960 to need both internal advocates and external advocates to help 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:13.480 you over the lifetime of your career. 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.480 So when you mean men get more value from their 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.640 experience than women than women do, what is what do 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:20.760 you mean exactly? 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.600 Yeah, they're able to So look, I don't know where 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.040 they kind of get clued into this. This is kind 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:29.880 of a mystery to me. And part of the reason 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:30.760 why we did this. 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.680 Mystery are men. Men are mysteries. I can just say 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:34.520 they are mysteries. 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.600 But go ahead, Paul, you might disagree, so I might 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:40.360 just let you in there for a second. 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:44.320 But I wanted to make it transparent. We wanted to 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:45.200 make that transparent. 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.960 And what we see is that women are not gaining 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:52.160 that experience capital in the sort of as big as quickly. 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.080 And so one of the key lessons is plan early 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.080 in your career. It's not just enough to do the 0:14:58.120 --> 0:14:59.960 thing you were asked to do. You need to act, 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.640 look up and around and do a bit more. 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.320 So, as I remember a book, I'm trying to give 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.960 it as Steve Schwartzman or something. But it's like, you know, 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:12.840 if you're going to go go big, because it's going 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.520 to take almost as much efforts as if you go small. 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:19.560 And I think there's probably numerous iterations of this, but 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:21.360 if you're going to do something, just go big, Just 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.520 go big, Just go BIG's. 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.280 Go big, Yeah, absolutely, And that's what we mean by 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.360 these big bold bets. I mean, you know, think about 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.640 how well women have done in school and think about 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.480 that first broken rum. I mean, you haven't been in 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.000 the workforce long enough for there to be a true 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.440 quality difference between men and women. You've been in the 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.080 workforce what two four or five years where you get 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.880 that first promotion. So betting on yourself is a great bet. 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:46.240 And you got to go big. 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.200 Steve Schwartzman of course at Blackstone Fame. Oh yeah, in 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:51.400 case you're wondering. 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:52.120 He says, go big, Carol. 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:53.280 Uh. 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.320 Super interesting, Well that's also for you. 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.160 I mean it's for men and women, but just making 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.200 sure that on you know that women are doing it too. 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.640 Yeah, No, it's interesting. Hey, listen, just twenty twenty five seconds. 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:08.680 How much so of maybe getting caught up or facing 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:12.440 a broken rung is because of having kids? Just quickly, 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.080 So that's more than twenty seconds. 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.040 But to cover that quickly, one of the things we 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.440 know is that there are a lot of challenges in 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.040 terms of motherhood and one of the things that we 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.360 explore in our research is how can actually be an accelerator. 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.520 And so just one story I'll leave you with is 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.800 that real quick story is a woman who was a 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.240 high powered lawyer in tech. She took fourteen years off 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:37.920 and then she decided to go back and she did 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.320 one of these reboarding programs back into the workplace at 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:45.320 LinkedIn and is back and is an executive there. And 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.440 so just one thing for mothers is you may make 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:50.600 a decision, but then you can still come back to 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:52.240 the workplace and be an executive. 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.520 Cool stuff. Good to get some time with you. Lorena Yee, 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.240 Senior partner at McKenzie and Company, Chair of the McKenzie 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.840 Tech Counsel. Her book The Broken Rung, When the Career 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:04.320 Ladder Breaks for Women and How they can succeed in 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:04.960 spite of it. 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:05.240 All. 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:10.080 Right, you're listening and watching Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg, Carol. 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.400 How often do you hear people say things like, hey, 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:14.560 do you have an HVAC guy all the time? Or 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.879 like a tile guide? Definitely, an appliance guy, yes, yesterday, 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:19.159 you got a guy who's a good plumber. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:20.280 Oh, all the time. 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:22.399 I'm actually looking for someone who can do some light 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.360 dry wall if you know anyone. 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:24.760 Yeah. 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.399 It turns out that women, though, are behind quite a 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.520 bit of the growth in home services. This is according 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:30.520 to Yep. 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.960 That is pretty wild. Tara Lewis is VP of Community 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.640 Expansion and Trends at YEP. She joins us from Washington, DC. 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.239 Tara is so good to have you here. Tell us 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:43.600 what's going on in terms of women and home services 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:45.560 because this is kind of surprising. 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.720 Yes, thanks for having me. Well. For Women's History Month, 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.320 We've just released our second annual She Economy Services Report, 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.760 which revealed that women owned home services businesses on yelps 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.960 for past fifteen thousand new openings in twenty twenty four, 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:04.040 or topping every other category for the second consecutive year. 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:08.840 Women are seeking out these opportunities in home service businesses, 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.080 and as you said, traditionally male dominated area is like 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:16.320 pumming and roofing masonry more than any other category, including 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:19.920 beauty service categories, which historically have been some of the 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.840 top choices for female entrepreneurship as we've seen on yelp. 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:24.360 Hey, one thing I want to ask you, so are 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:26.720 they starting the businesses and then hiring men to be 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:28.920 the plumbers or are they actually doing it? 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:32.840 I would assume that well, first of all, as if 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.159 you're going to be identified as a woman owned business 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:37.080 on Yelp, as the business owner, you have to go 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:38.879