Speaker 1: Paper Ghosts is a production of I Heart Radio. Hello
Speaker 1: Irene High, It's it's em William Phelps, Matthew Okay, you're
Speaker 1: the person who left the message earlier today. Yeah, It's
Speaker 1: been forty seven years since the nurse at Janice Pocket
Speaker 1: School discovered a piece of information that would change the
Speaker 1: way I have looked at this case for the past
Speaker 1: eleven years. Janice Pocket was only seven years old when
Speaker 1: she disappeared in ninety three after leaving home on her
Speaker 1: bicycle in search of a dead butterfly she had tucked
Speaker 1: behind a rock a third of a mile down the
Speaker 1: road from her house. There was one witness, a neighbor
Speaker 1: who saw a blue station wagon parked blocking the road
Speaker 1: and a man wearing a khaki colored uniform of sorts
Speaker 1: walking towards the direction Janice went the neighbor since the
Speaker 1: man was following something or someone down the road. But
Speaker 1: this lead never went anywhere for law enforcement. For years,
Speaker 1: I had been hearing about this nurse from Janice's school
Speaker 1: who might have information, big information. The only problem, no
Speaker 1: one could get in touch with her. So I spoke
Speaker 1: to Janice's sister about it. One day, after checking with
Speaker 1: some old neighborhood friends. She came back to me with
Speaker 1: a phone number and an address. I called and there
Speaker 1: she was Nurse Irene Race, talking about that time period
Speaker 1: so long ago. I was a school nurse in that
Speaker 1: building and she was transferring to another building when she
Speaker 1: went into grade three, and I get all my health
Speaker 1: records together. I checked everyone and then send them over.
Speaker 1: The school year had closed out, being July. The summer
Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy three was in full swing. Kids were
Speaker 1: out and about, playing and enjoying the time off. The
Speaker 1: new school year was two months away. In September, Nurse
Speaker 1: Irene was transferring records for each student moving from one
Speaker 1: grade to the next. As she was going about this
Speaker 1: annual routine, Irene noticed something odd. Her record was the
Speaker 1: only one of my records that was missing. I assumed
Speaker 1: she discovered Janice's medical records missing after the search for
Speaker 1: Janice began. But information in cold cases needs to be
Speaker 1: run down and double checked because it is often woven
Speaker 1: with innuendo and rumor. And wouldn't you know the idea
Speaker 1: that Irene realized Janice's records disappeared after Janice vanished and
Speaker 1: police started asking questions, was wrong actually that record was
Speaker 1: missing right before. From what I can recall, I was
Speaker 1: getting the records together to go, and of course I
Speaker 1: checked every single one and hers was missing them and
Speaker 1: I was a little surprised. I'm very careful with health records.
Speaker 1: A lot of information in those records, yeah, including her address.
Speaker 1: Right Where were the records kept in the school health office?
Speaker 1: In a file, you know, one of the large four
Speaker 1: draw files. I will tell you that that file was
Speaker 1: not kept blocked back then, it didn't appear to be
Speaker 1: the sort of thing you needed to be concerned about
Speaker 1: these files for not to keep blocked. Besides the school nurse,
Speaker 1: who else would have had access to that room where
Speaker 1: students records were kept. It was nineteen seventy three, and
Speaker 1: as Irene says, there was a lack of daisical approach
Speaker 1: to storing personal information. The hip Hop Privacy Rule, a
Speaker 1: law protecting patients medical records keeping them private, was not
Speaker 1: signed into law until nineteen Let me ask periodically, were
Speaker 1: there are other people who would come in from the
Speaker 1: school district, that worked for the school district, that traveled
Speaker 1: around to each school and talent. From what I can recall,
Speaker 1: the only ones that would uh come with be like
Speaker 1: a maintenance person, a main its worker. Now that's interesting.
Speaker 1: I make a mental note to check out the school's
Speaker 1: employment history during the time Janice went missing. It's a
Speaker 1: solid lead. After years of interviewing hundreds of people, I'm
Speaker 1: familiar with the set of names connected to these cases.
Speaker 1: This could be that one tip pointing me to a
Speaker 1: new name within my investigation. It could also be a
Speaker 1: simple instance of a misplaced file sending me down a
Speaker 1: rabbit hole. Still I cannot ignore it or downplay how
Speaker 1: important I think it is, beckoning me in a new direction.
Speaker 1: It was not missile that was never found. It evaporated,
Speaker 1: just like she did unfortunately previously on paper ghosts. The
Speaker 1: next thing I remember is my sister, and she had
Speaker 1: asked if she could go to get the butterfly. This
Speaker 1: is so silly, but I felt bad. I'm like I
Speaker 1: should have gone with her. It was a guy. Nobody
Speaker 1: was in the car. He was walking looking ahead, very quietly.
Speaker 1: It haunted me all this time. I can see it
Speaker 1: as if it just happened. I think it over here
Speaker 1: and find out what you are sticking out. So I
Speaker 1: stopped thinking at that point. My name is m William Phelps.
Speaker 1: This is paper ghosts. As I make serious progress with
Speaker 1: my investigation into what happened to Jane's Pocket that summer day,
Speaker 1: I cannot stop thinking about the other missing girls I've
Speaker 1: been searching for as well, and if there is some
Speaker 1: sort of connection among them. I mentioned in the last
Speaker 1: episode how the neighboring towns of Ellington, Vernon and Talland
Speaker 1: Connecticut were on high alert when Jani's Pocket went missing.
Speaker 1: I mean, you ask any one in this area even today,
Speaker 1: all these years later, and they will all recall that
Speaker 1: name associated with that butterfly. And what makes this case
Speaker 1: even more creepy is the fact that one year after
Speaker 1: Janice Pocket went missing, another young girl was abducted just
Speaker 1: a few miles from where Janice was last seen. The
Speaker 1: case I've been investigating the longest is thirteen year old
Speaker 1: Lisa Joy White subduction. I have a very personal stake
Speaker 1: in this one. I've known Lisa's sister, April White Filetti,
Speaker 1: for over thirty years. We grew up around here. She's
Speaker 1: like family. Hello. April has been a dance studio owner
Speaker 1: and instructor for decades. She has a relentless energy about her.
Speaker 1: She's very petite, white blonde hair past her shoulders. I
Speaker 1: meet her at the studio she owns in Ellington, Connecticut.
Speaker 1: There's flashy dance garb hanging everywhere, dozens of championship awards
Speaker 1: on the walls. Young girls Lisa whites age, some of
Speaker 1: whom even resemble her, running around getting ready, putting on
Speaker 1: their point shoes, selecting rehearsal music. April and I sit
Speaker 1: down on a round couch in the center of the
Speaker 1: studio's reception area. She explains what it was like back
Speaker 1: when Ellington and Vernon were small Connecticut country towns. Just
Speaker 1: after her sister disappeared in nineteen seventy four. The outreach
Speaker 1: was massive, the public outcry for police to find Lisa intense,
Speaker 1: some residents showing up at the Vernon police department demanding justice.
Speaker 1: I moved into Vernon in nineteen seventy nine, five years
Speaker 1: after Lisa went missing, and recall even then how stirred
Speaker 1: up everyone still was about Lisa's case. You went to
Speaker 1: the post office, Little League games, local gas station, and
Speaker 1: there was Lisa's face now next to Janie's and another
Speaker 1: young girl I'll focus on in a future episode on
Speaker 1: a poster missing scrawled across the top, three young girls
Speaker 1: who now would define the term in this part of
Speaker 1: New England. Seeing those posters, such innocent faces and that
Speaker 1: one word missing. As a twelve year old myself terrified
Speaker 1: me whose photo would be next on those posters everywhere? Everywhere,
Speaker 1: on telephone poles, in our one grocery store, in the library.
Speaker 1: I mean even I was in um Elementary School, Maple
Speaker 1: Street and they were hanging there. And it just every
Speaker 1: time you see when it, it just just takes your
Speaker 1: breath away, just knocks the wind out of here. That
Speaker 1: pain is ubiquitous, always there, It's forever, no matter the outcome.
Speaker 1: I saw it on Judy Kelly, April and Lisa's mother
Speaker 1: every time we met. April, whenever we begin talking about
Speaker 1: Lisa has the same shallow gaze, which tells me the
Speaker 1: mere mention of her sister brings her right back. Time
Speaker 1: doesn't change anything. And I knew that there'd be a poster,
Speaker 1: you know, I would literally tremble. You know, this could
Speaker 1: happen to me as well, you know, but just knowing
Speaker 1: the pain, the anguish that my mother was going through.
Speaker 1: I remember that, especially right after it happened, when you
Speaker 1: would see posters. I almost felt embarrassed because I didn't
Speaker 1: want people thinking that my mother was a bad mother.
Speaker 1: But I also lived in in Lisa's shadow. On this day,
Speaker 1: forty years ago, a teenage girl disappeared in Vernon. Well today,
Speaker 1: the community came together to remember Lisa Joy White and
Speaker 1: make sure that she is not forgotten. April and I
Speaker 1: established the Lisa White Stone Memorial with the help of
Speaker 1: volunteers in two thousand fourteen at Talcott Park in Rockville, Connecticut.
Speaker 1: It was the anniversary of Lisa's disappearance, and the Mayor
Speaker 1: of Vernon was on hand, as were several members of
Speaker 1: the Vernon Police Department. I've come to know over the
Speaker 1: years about a hundred people showed up. That's love, that's commitment,
Speaker 1: that's community. The memorial is a stone boulder, actually about
Speaker 1: the size of a golf cart. Etched in it is
Speaker 1: Lisa's class photo underneath the words gone but not forgotten.
Speaker 1: It the same image plastered on missing person flyers and posters,
Speaker 1: exemplifying Lisa's piercing blue eyes, golden blonde hair parted in
Speaker 1: the middle, sweeping just over her shoulders. Lisa displays a
Speaker 1: half smile smirk which kind of speaks to her character.
Speaker 1: The memorial is as much a dedication to Lisa as
Speaker 1: it is to Judy Kelly April and Lisa's mother. Judy
Speaker 1: was a single mom, three kids, working three different jobs,
Speaker 1: trying to make ends meet. Um. Very hard worker. Did
Speaker 1: her best to get us to all our extracurricular activities,
Speaker 1: the cheerleading, the dance, the baseball, the football, and did
Speaker 1: an awesome job with that. And dance though, was the
Speaker 1: focus for Lisa. Wasn't your focus? No? I went because
Speaker 1: Lisa went, and you kind of took over. Really what
Speaker 1: was Lisa's dream? Correct? Yes? Where we are right now
Speaker 1: at the studio and you ran with it. Yes, it
Speaker 1: was very important to Judy. Um. Sometimes I felt I
Speaker 1: was trying to be two people. I was trying to
Speaker 1: be Lisa and myself, which is a lot of pressure,
Speaker 1: especially you know, the teenager and and whatever. But without
Speaker 1: Lisa I would have never started dancing. That was her thing.
Speaker 1: She was extremely talented, um strong as a bull. Lisa
Speaker 1: was a natural acrobat and dancer. Silent eight millimeter home
Speaker 1: movies showed this side of her, but she also had
Speaker 1: an independence about her. Even at a young age. She
Speaker 1: was driven by a need to be autonomous, to rebel,
Speaker 1: to stare authority in its eyes and confront it. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: when she started hanging around the wrong people her interest
Speaker 1: kind of yes, it did. I mean Lisa was kind
Speaker 1: of tough, right, yes, yes, very tough, very bullheaded, um,
Speaker 1: never back down, always ready for an argument or a fight.
Speaker 1: April continued talking about who Lisa like to hang out with.
Speaker 1: She had, you know, a couple of girlfriends her age.
Speaker 1: The males that she was hanging with five, six, even
Speaker 1: seven years older, young men, not the best influences. Lisa
Speaker 1: ran with a tough crowd, an older group. She was
Speaker 1: living a life beyond her thirteen years. The night before
Speaker 1: she went missing, Lisa was with some of those friends.
Speaker 1: It was Halloween vour. She was with a group of
Speaker 1: young men and her friend who was the same age
Speaker 1: as her, and they went joy riding. There is drinking involved,
Speaker 1: um up on the Massachusetts border, and they decided to
Speaker 1: throw pumpkins out the window and we're pulled over um
Speaker 1: and they took Lisa to the state police barracks. No
Speaker 1: one could have known then that this situation would become
Speaker 1: such a crucial moment within Lisa's investigation and actually hinder
Speaker 1: chances of finding her and had to call my mother
Speaker 1: to come pick her up. Needless to say, my mother
Speaker 1: was enraged, very concerned. I think at that point she
Speaker 1: had been going through so many other incidents that had
Speaker 1: happened that were just you know, very just scary to discern. Okay,
Speaker 1: And she was grounded on November one because of that night,
Speaker 1: that is correct. And as soon as Judy took off
Speaker 1: for work and her second shift job, Lisa decided what
Speaker 1: she decided that she was going to go and see
Speaker 1: this friend who she thought of as a sister. April
Speaker 1: was referring to Maria Scrow, Lisa's closest friend. On the
Speaker 1: night she went missing, Lisa walked from her house in
Speaker 1: Vernon and headed toward downtown Rockville, about two miles. According
Speaker 1: to information I've obtained, during that walk, Lisa stopped to
Speaker 1: see two friends, telling both she would call them later
Speaker 1: that night at about eleven PM when she returned home.
Speaker 1: So she was there, um, I think for a couple
Speaker 1: of hours, and I wanted to get home before my
Speaker 1: mother got home from work because again she was grounded,
Speaker 1: and at that point she decided, you know, she was
Speaker 1: going to leave and try and hitch hike home and
Speaker 1: never made it home. I'm in Vernon today to meet
Speaker 1: with Marius grow, the friend who was with Lisa the
Speaker 1: night she disappeared. I'm gonna be parking right here, just
Speaker 1: down the street from Lisa's memorial. I want to get
Speaker 1: a feel for where Lisa was the last time she
Speaker 1: was seen. I mean, I've been here dozens of times.
Speaker 1: It's not far from where I live today. Pulkot Park
Speaker 1: on the corner of Prospect and Ellen him Maria, But
Speaker 1: how are you? Maria Scrow is the same age Lisa
Speaker 1: White would be today, about fifty. She has short, wavy
Speaker 1: gray hair and this gentle way about her, very sincere.
Speaker 1: She looks around a lot as we chat, as if
Speaker 1: she's expecting to recognize someone walking by. Maria does not
Speaker 1: live anywhere near Vernon Rockville. These days, downtown Rockville can
Speaker 1: be a busy place. This area, the streets around the park.
Speaker 1: I call it Funeral Row because several old and quite
Speaker 1: creepy Victorian homes around us were transformed long ago into
Speaker 1: funeral homes. I've buried friends here myself. We head towards
Speaker 1: Talcott Park, where Lisa White's memorial is located and just
Speaker 1: down the street from where Maria and her parents used
Speaker 1: to live. The park itself is small, about the size
Speaker 1: of a football field, full of your typical boring town
Speaker 1: landscaping playscape in one corner, several bench seats scattered around,
Speaker 1: one directly in front of Lisa's memorial. The green grass
Speaker 1: is separated down the middle, with the cement sidewalk running
Speaker 1: from one corner to the other. Maria speaks with a
Speaker 1: voice touched by an inherent pain I have become all
Speaker 1: too familiar with when speaking to people connected to these cases.
Speaker 1: I've learned there is no expiration date on memory when
Speaker 1: it comes to trauma. Maria is a mother herself, like
Speaker 1: everyone else I've spoken to. She tells me the years
Speaker 1: time has not changed anything. The pain of not knowing
Speaker 1: is relentless, NonStop and crushing. I asked her what she
Speaker 1: remembers about the night Lisa went missing. So, now, did
Speaker 1: she call you that night come over? Yeah, she came
Speaker 1: over to my house to um she wanted to leave
Speaker 1: my mom and dad and not saying that she was
Speaker 1: very sorry and and you know, embarrassed that you know,
Speaker 1: we got in trouble and that she hurt them. Yes,
Speaker 1: and um. Then you know my dad was home, but
Speaker 1: he was sleeping, so we were being quiet, you know,
Speaker 1: in my bedroom, being quiet, and she walked over. She
Speaker 1: walked over, They walked everywhere. This is important to me
Speaker 1: and the thread beginning to present itself. You know, either
Speaker 1: I was down her house, she was up here, or
Speaker 1: we were up at Red Apple. That's where our hangout was.
Speaker 1: The Red Apple was a small town grocery store about
Speaker 1: one point five miles from Maria's house, one of those
Speaker 1: places where they bagged your groceries, and some zip face
Speaker 1: kid wearing a bow tie carried them out to the car. Now,
Speaker 1: remember Lisa was grounded because of the trouble she had
Speaker 1: gotten into with Maria the previous night on Halloween. She
Speaker 1: was not supposed to see Maria ever again, and so
Speaker 1: she waited for her mother to leave for work near
Speaker 1: four pm and then snuck over to Maria's house. So,
Speaker 1: after Judy went to work, she walked right, she came over.
Speaker 1: My mom was gone, so I said yeah, my mom's
Speaker 1: gosh said all right. So then you know we talked
Speaker 1: and hung out and we hugged each other and said
Speaker 1: we'll see it. You know we'll see it at school
Speaker 1: because we weren't allowed to see each other. And how
Speaker 1: come you wearn allowed to because Lisa loved to write notes, poems, pros.
Speaker 1: On the day she went missing, Lisa penned two page
Speaker 1: note to her mother, Judy Kelly, on yellow paper. My look,
Speaker 1: I'm really sorry, it began. She then apologized for the
Speaker 1: trouble she'd caused the previous night. As the letter continued,
Speaker 1: she also talked about what she wanted out of life.
Speaker 1: Quote Maria and her family end quote. Lisa yearned to
Speaker 1: move into Maria's house. She longed for a traditional family lifestyle.
Speaker 1: What's clear is that the note is not a dear mom,
Speaker 1: I'm running away letter. It was Lisa explaining feelings she
Speaker 1: could not face sharing with her mother in person, while
Speaker 1: expressing how sorry she was for the previous night binge
Speaker 1: drinking and tossing those pumpkins out of the car. She
Speaker 1: loved her mom, but they had their arguments and stuff too,
Speaker 1: you know, But she loved her mom, and she never
Speaker 1: ever talked about running away, you know. I Mean sometimes
Speaker 1: she'd be like, I can't wait till them old enough
Speaker 1: to move out and get me, you know. The things
Speaker 1: start teen year old to think about, but she never
Speaker 1: she wouldn't hurt her family like that. In the letter,
Speaker 1: Lisa also mentioned a boy named Greg and said she
Speaker 1: loved Greg and Maria quote more than anything end quote.
Speaker 1: Near the end of the letter, Lisa added, I really
Speaker 1: am starting to understand more. What did she talk about
Speaker 1: you leading up to that night she was in love
Speaker 1: with Greg. Greg was Maria's boyfriend's best friend a few
Speaker 1: years older, and Lisa claimed she loved him. He was
Speaker 1: the same boy she and Maria were with the night
Speaker 1: they got into trouble. This was the reason why they
Speaker 1: hung out at the Red Apple so much. Both boys
Speaker 1: lived nearby. Early on, Greg was looked at as a
Speaker 1: potential suspect, but then quickly ruled out. As Lisa and
Speaker 1: Maria hung out that night November one, there came a
Speaker 1: time when Lisa said she had to leave, and um,
Speaker 1: so she said, all right, I better go because you know,
Speaker 1: my mom was going to be coming home and she
Speaker 1: wanted to be Judy home before she got out of work.
Speaker 1: And do you remember what time she showed up? I
Speaker 1: don't really remember that. Okay, what time she left? She
Speaker 1: left about seven thirty or so, it wasn't late, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, because my mom was grocery shopping,
Speaker 1: so I know it wasn't late. I should point out
Speaker 1: that by seven thirty pm in November in New England
Speaker 1: it's dark as a cave outside. Hitchhiking could not have
Speaker 1: been a safe feeling. And did do you know which
Speaker 1: way she went? She always goes that away? Maria pointed west.
Speaker 1: The shortest way home for Lisa would have been to
Speaker 1: take a right out of the scroll House and walk
Speaker 1: about two blocks, then trek six blocks, ending up at
Speaker 1: a nearby seven eleven. So we always went down to
Speaker 1: seven eleven and up West Road and then cut off
Speaker 1: West Road where the seven eleven still is today, took
Speaker 1: Lisa to her street, Reagan Road. Maria is certain Lisa
Speaker 1: went this way. Lisa's mother reported her missing at about
Speaker 1: ten thirty PM, so her leaving Maria's at seven seven
Speaker 1: thirty gave her abductor a head start of three to
Speaker 1: four hours. Think about that for a moment. It's four
Speaker 1: no internet, no cell phones. Police departments had very limited
Speaker 1: communication among one another, if much at all. From Rockville,
Speaker 1: three to four hours was enough time to be in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: New York, New Jersey, you know, and the Lexa I know,
Speaker 1: I don't know even know what time it was, one
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning whatever. My parents were waking me
Speaker 1: up and they said, did you see Lisa tonight? And
Speaker 1: do not run of us? And that's when I get
Speaker 1: jumped out, and as I said, yes, and so that
Speaker 1: started the whole thing. That started the whole thing. And
Speaker 1: in the beginning, it was kind of like she had
Speaker 1: run away, right, everybody thought she ran away because of
Speaker 1: the you know, we had gotten in trouble. Of course,
Speaker 1: Judie was madder than a hornet. My parents were madder
Speaker 1: than a hornet, and everybody thought you in a way,
Speaker 1: So a lot of the focus was on me that
Speaker 1: I knew where she was. I was hiding her. The
Speaker 1: first set of investigators and even as recently as two
Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen, focused on Maria as someone who knew
Speaker 1: what happened to Lisa. White detectives pressured her to tell
Speaker 1: them where Lisa had run off to. It was that
Speaker 1: old investigative mentality that Lisa had run away that probably
Speaker 1: hampered any early evidence that could have been collected, especially
Speaker 1: witness statements. And look, this was by no fault of
Speaker 1: the police. The situation appeared to be that of a runaway.
Speaker 1: It was seventy four. All of the early reports and
Speaker 1: I've seen and read everyone are focused on Lisa taking off.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm thirteen years old, you know, Maria pleaded
Speaker 1: with police. I do not know anything. With pressure mounting
Speaker 1: in those hours and days after Lisa went missing, Maria
Speaker 1: took matters into her own hands, and UM, me and
Speaker 1: a bunch of kids we went up all by Valley Fall,
Speaker 1: showing her picture, you know, looking for in the woods,
Speaker 1: up at the snap, looking around. But they always came
Speaker 1: back to thinking that I knew where she was. So
Speaker 1: finally I took my you know, the State cup. I
Speaker 1: don't remember his name, he was on the league case.
Speaker 1: He said, well, the only way to prove you don't
Speaker 1: know anything, let's take a lie dechecter tests. And I
Speaker 1: said yes, and my father said the LL give permission.
Speaker 1: I took the lie detective tests and I passed. Something
Speaker 1: happened after Maria took the polygraph, which I can sense
Speaker 1: and see as I talked to her, still has a lingering,
Speaker 1: intense emotional effect and I'll never forget it. And I
Speaker 1: don't blame Judy. I never did. But when she found
Speaker 1: out that I passed it, she came to my house
Speaker 1: and a flirt and she said, I wished it was you.
Speaker 1: I wish it was Judy. Kelly was relentless in her
Speaker 1: pursuit of finding her daughter, such as stopping at the
Speaker 1: Vernon Police Department every month for decades, always up in
Speaker 1: their face. Judy Kelly and I had a special bond.
Speaker 1: In two thousand nine, she asked me to look into
Speaker 1: Lisa's disappearance. I promised I would find answers. But on
Speaker 1: July three, two twelve, just after sharing over four hundred
Speaker 1: pages of materials she'd collected and handed off to me,
Speaker 1: including a detailed diary she kept on the day Lisa
Speaker 1: went missing and letters Lisa left behind, Judy passed away
Speaker 1: at the age of seventy two. It's been a personal
Speaker 1: obsession of mine ever since to honor my word. Every
Speaker 1: time I opened up this case, in particular, this tight
Speaker 1: anxiety builds in my gut, as if the answer to
Speaker 1: Lisa's disappearance is in front of me, but I just
Speaker 1: cannot reach it. Digging through that four page binder, one
Speaker 1: day I came across a newspaper clipping from the year
Speaker 1: after Lisa went missing. Judy had published a letter to
Speaker 1: the editor chastising local law enforcement search for her daughter.
Speaker 1: She wrote, quote, I was surprised to see that Vernon
Speaker 1: police organized a rescue team of a hundred men to
Speaker 1: search for a forty six year old man who was
Speaker 1: missing for two days. Why is it that this effort
Speaker 1: was not made to locate a thirteen year old girl?
Speaker 1: End quote. I know from reading Judy Kelly's diary that
Speaker 1: she was never in denial. She knew her daughter, She
Speaker 1: felt it Lisa was never coming back, which was why
Speaker 1: she used the word dead when she saw Maria all
Speaker 1: those years later and said she'd wished it was her.
Speaker 1: I've seen this in similar cases. The pain is so
Speaker 1: intense for family, emotion emphatically raw and fraid. You really
Speaker 1: have no idea what you're saying or doing. All you
Speaker 1: see are those images in your head of what you
Speaker 1: think is happening to your child, what's some scumbag maybe
Speaker 1: doing to her. Judy lashed out at the only person
Speaker 1: she could, the last connection to Lisa. I understand that
Speaker 1: Judy had the anger, but I think it would have
Speaker 1: been easier if her and I state kept our bonds
Speaker 1: and you know we're there for each other, because I
Speaker 1: was completely cut off from that completely. You just said,
Speaker 1: I don't want you here, I don't want you near
Speaker 1: my kids. You know, she and I understand it. I
Speaker 1: do that she was so hurt and heartbroken and not
Speaker 1: knowing where her child was, that I was the the
Speaker 1: go with escape bolt. You know, it's easier to be
Speaker 1: angry at somebody than it is to feel pain. But
Speaker 1: years later I understood, and I became a mother. I
Speaker 1: understood she was just upset. Yeah, Judy didn't talk to
Speaker 1: me for many, many years, you know, and I think
Speaker 1: I was. I had my kids by thee, so it
Speaker 1: was my mid twenties and I've seen her and we
Speaker 1: talked and she said, you know, I never met up.
Speaker 1: And I said, I home my mother now too, right,
Speaker 1: I don't hold different in stress, right right. I look
Speaker 1: at this woman in front of me, crying, shaking, forty
Speaker 1: five years after the experience, and what I refer to
Speaker 1: as the ripple effective murder and the pain these cases
Speaker 1: cause turns into a wave, a never ending torrent of emotions.
Speaker 1: So Lisa takes off. I mean she was always sticking
Speaker 1: out her thumb, right, we did. But I don't know
Speaker 1: if she would do it by herself, because we always
Speaker 1: had that code, always be together. But you know, in
Speaker 1: her mind, maybe thinking I'm not going to get home
Speaker 1: in time, let me see if I can get a ride.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, but we always had that code,
Speaker 1: never by ourselves hitchhike. That word hitchhike. Maria claims she
Speaker 1: and especially Lisa were cautious, never reckless alone, They would
Speaker 1: never take rides from anyone. Still, Maria worries to this
Speaker 1: day that Lisa was in such a hurry that night
Speaker 1: to get home before her mother, who would have arrived
Speaker 1: around nine pm or so, and because Lisa was grounded,
Speaker 1: she might have stuck out her thumb and hitchhiked. So
Speaker 1: if we're one of us is alone, too bad? You
Speaker 1: walk it however far it is. That was the code
Speaker 1: you had. We had a cold. So I don't know though,
Speaker 1: because you know, she was upset. We were all upset
Speaker 1: over what happened and getting in trouble and thinking we
Speaker 1: can never be friends again. Or, as one law enforcement
Speaker 1: source has suggested to me, perhaps Lisa knew the person
Speaker 1: who stopped and asked if she wanted to ride. Maria
Speaker 1: is unaware of this, but throughout my investigation, I've been
Speaker 1: trying to see if there's more of a connection other
Speaker 1: than proximity between the missing girls, Jane's Pocket, Debbie Spickler,
Speaker 1: Lisa White, and Susan LaRosa. So I bring up a name.
Speaker 1: Did you know that Larosa's who lived right down the
Speaker 1: street from me? Yes, I used to babysitt from her
Speaker 1: once in a while. Maria baby sat for Susan LaRosa,
Speaker 1: one of the missing girls. I couldn't believe what I
Speaker 1: was hearing. Here was a direct connection between Lisa White
Speaker 1: and another of the missing girls. It was the first
Speaker 1: time Maria said anyone had even asked her this question.
Speaker 1: Sometimes all the cold case needs is asking the right
Speaker 1: question and the floodgates open. It was as if I
Speaker 1: could see a bit of light and maybe even the
Speaker 1: shadow of a big moment finally fading, revealing itself. It
Speaker 1: felt comforting and fired me up, but at the same
Speaker 1: time a bit overwhelming. So after leaving Maria, I sat
Speaker 1: in my jeep and took a moment, and that was
Speaker 1: when it hit me. Jane's pocket goes missing. In seventy three.
Speaker 1: Lisa White vanishes in seventy four, a block away from
Speaker 1: where Susan Larossa lived, who then disappears herself a year
Speaker 1: after Lisa in from basically the same location. There's never
Speaker 1: been an official connection made among these three girls. I've
Speaker 1: asked law enforcement repeatedly. No, they have told me time
Speaker 1: and again. But as an investigator, an expert on serial
Speaker 1: crime myself, especially when looking into abduction in homicide cases,
Speaker 1: I have learned there are no coincidences in murder, only connections.
Speaker 1: In the next episode of Paper Ghosts, she moved out
Speaker 1: and my mother. At that point she thought, Wow, somebody
Speaker 1: took herross my hands, and he's gonna make everything wonderful.
Speaker 1: She was induced with the mother. She didn't know how
Speaker 1: to love, She didn't know how to be a mom.
Speaker 1: These kids were not what she wanted. Police used to
Speaker 1: handle domestic violence just for the warning. They would tell husbands,
Speaker 1: you know, control your wife, or I'll go back inside,
Speaker 1: don't call us. I saw her crack him over the
Speaker 1: head with a cast iron frying fan where he needed stitches,
Speaker 1: and he didn't do a thing about it because it
Speaker 1: just wasn't in him to do that I mean it
Speaker 1: was like hell. House Paper Ghosts is written and executive
Speaker 1: produced by me and William Phelps, with help from producer
Speaker 1: Christina Everett and sound editing by Pete Cardy from back
Speaker 1: Room Audio. Special thanks to Abu Safar and Will Pearson
Speaker 1: from My Heart Radio. The series theme number four four
Speaker 1: two is written and performed by Tom Mooney and Thomas Phelps.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows. H