1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Paper Ghosts is a production of I Heart Radio. Hello 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: Irene High, It's it's em William Phelps, Matthew Okay, you're 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: the person who left the message earlier today. Yeah, It's 4 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: been forty seven years since the nurse at Janice Pocket 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: School discovered a piece of information that would change the 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: way I have looked at this case for the past 7 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: eleven years. Janice Pocket was only seven years old when 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: she disappeared in ninety three after leaving home on her 9 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: bicycle in search of a dead butterfly she had tucked 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: behind a rock a third of a mile down the 11 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: road from her house. There was one witness, a neighbor 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: who saw a blue station wagon parked blocking the road 13 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: and a man wearing a khaki colored uniform of sorts 14 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: walking towards the direction Janice went the neighbor since the 15 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: man was following something or someone down the road. But 16 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: this lead never went anywhere for law enforcement. For years, 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: I had been hearing about this nurse from Janice's school 18 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: who might have information, big information. The only problem, no 19 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: one could get in touch with her. So I spoke 20 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: to Janice's sister about it. One day, after checking with 21 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: some old neighborhood friends. She came back to me with 22 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: a phone number and an address. I called and there 23 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: she was Nurse Irene Race, talking about that time period 24 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: so long ago. I was a school nurse in that 25 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: building and she was transferring to another building when she 26 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: went into grade three, and I get all my health 27 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: records together. I checked everyone and then send them over. 28 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: The school year had closed out, being July. The summer 29 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy three was in full swing. Kids were 30 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: out and about, playing and enjoying the time off. The 31 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: new school year was two months away. In September, Nurse 32 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: Irene was transferring records for each student moving from one 33 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: grade to the next. As she was going about this 34 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: annual routine, Irene noticed something odd. Her record was the 35 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: only one of my records that was missing. I assumed 36 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: she discovered Janice's medical records missing after the search for 37 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: Janice began. But information in cold cases needs to be 38 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: run down and double checked because it is often woven 39 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: with innuendo and rumor. And wouldn't you know the idea 40 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: that Irene realized Janice's records disappeared after Janice vanished and 41 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: police started asking questions, was wrong actually that record was 42 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: missing right before. From what I can recall, I was 43 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: getting the records together to go, and of course I 44 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: checked every single one and hers was missing them and 45 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: I was a little surprised. I'm very careful with health records. 46 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: A lot of information in those records, yeah, including her address. 47 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: Right Where were the records kept in the school health office? 48 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: In a file, you know, one of the large four 49 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: draw files. I will tell you that that file was 50 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: not kept blocked back then, it didn't appear to be 51 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: the sort of thing you needed to be concerned about 52 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: these files for not to keep blocked. Besides the school nurse, 53 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: who else would have had access to that room where 54 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: students records were kept. It was nineteen seventy three, and 55 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: as Irene says, there was a lack of daisical approach 56 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: to storing personal information. The hip Hop Privacy Rule, a 57 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: law protecting patients medical records keeping them private, was not 58 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: signed into law until nineteen Let me ask periodically, were 59 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: there are other people who would come in from the 60 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: school district, that worked for the school district, that traveled 61 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: around to each school and talent. From what I can recall, 62 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: the only ones that would uh come with be like 63 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: a maintenance person, a main its worker. Now that's interesting. 64 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: I make a mental note to check out the school's 65 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: employment history during the time Janice went missing. It's a 66 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: solid lead. After years of interviewing hundreds of people, I'm 67 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: familiar with the set of names connected to these cases. 68 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: This could be that one tip pointing me to a 69 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: new name within my investigation. It could also be a 70 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: simple instance of a misplaced file sending me down a 71 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: rabbit hole. Still I cannot ignore it or downplay how 72 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: important I think it is, beckoning me in a new direction. 73 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: It was not missile that was never found. It evaporated, 74 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: just like she did unfortunately previously on paper ghosts. The 75 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: next thing I remember is my sister, and she had 76 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: asked if she could go to get the butterfly. This 77 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: is so silly, but I felt bad. I'm like I 78 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: should have gone with her. It was a guy. Nobody 79 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: was in the car. He was walking looking ahead, very quietly. 80 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: It haunted me all this time. I can see it 81 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: as if it just happened. I think it over here 82 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: and find out what you are sticking out. So I 83 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: stopped thinking at that point. My name is m William Phelps. 84 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: This is paper ghosts. As I make serious progress with 85 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: my investigation into what happened to Jane's Pocket that summer day, 86 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: I cannot stop thinking about the other missing girls I've 87 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: been searching for as well, and if there is some 88 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: sort of connection among them. I mentioned in the last 89 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: episode how the neighboring towns of Ellington, Vernon and Talland 90 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: Connecticut were on high alert when Jani's Pocket went missing. 91 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you ask any one in this area even today, 92 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: all these years later, and they will all recall that 93 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: name associated with that butterfly. And what makes this case 94 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: even more creepy is the fact that one year after 95 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: Janice Pocket went missing, another young girl was abducted just 96 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: a few miles from where Janice was last seen. The 97 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: case I've been investigating the longest is thirteen year old 98 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: Lisa Joy White subduction. I have a very personal stake 99 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: in this one. I've known Lisa's sister, April White Filetti, 100 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: for over thirty years. We grew up around here. She's 101 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: like family. Hello. April has been a dance studio owner 102 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: and instructor for decades. She has a relentless energy about her. 103 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: She's very petite, white blonde hair past her shoulders. I 104 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: meet her at the studio she owns in Ellington, Connecticut. 105 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: There's flashy dance garb hanging everywhere, dozens of championship awards 106 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: on the walls. Young girls Lisa whites age, some of 107 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: whom even resemble her, running around getting ready, putting on 108 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: their point shoes, selecting rehearsal music. April and I sit 109 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: down on a round couch in the center of the 110 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: studio's reception area. She explains what it was like back 111 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: when Ellington and Vernon were small Connecticut country towns. Just 112 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: after her sister disappeared in nineteen seventy four. The outreach 113 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: was massive, the public outcry for police to find Lisa intense, 114 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: some residents showing up at the Vernon police department demanding justice. 115 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: I moved into Vernon in nineteen seventy nine, five years 116 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: after Lisa went missing, and recall even then how stirred 117 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: up everyone still was about Lisa's case. You went to 118 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: the post office, Little League games, local gas station, and 119 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: there was Lisa's face now next to Janie's and another 120 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: young girl I'll focus on in a future episode on 121 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: a poster missing scrawled across the top, three young girls 122 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: who now would define the term in this part of 123 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: New England. Seeing those posters, such innocent faces and that 124 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,479 Speaker 1: one word missing. As a twelve year old myself terrified 125 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: me whose photo would be next on those posters everywhere? Everywhere, 126 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: on telephone poles, in our one grocery store, in the library. 127 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: I mean even I was in um Elementary School, Maple 128 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: Street and they were hanging there. And it just every 129 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: time you see when it, it just just takes your 130 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: breath away, just knocks the wind out of here. That 131 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: pain is ubiquitous, always there, It's forever, no matter the outcome. 132 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: I saw it on Judy Kelly, April and Lisa's mother 133 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: every time we met. April, whenever we begin talking about 134 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: Lisa has the same shallow gaze, which tells me the 135 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 1: mere mention of her sister brings her right back. Time 136 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: doesn't change anything. And I knew that there'd be a poster, 137 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: you know, I would literally tremble. You know, this could 138 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 1: happen to me as well, you know, but just knowing 139 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: the pain, the anguish that my mother was going through. 140 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,559 Speaker 1: I remember that, especially right after it happened, when you 141 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: would see posters. I almost felt embarrassed because I didn't 142 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: want people thinking that my mother was a bad mother. 143 00:09:50,920 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: But I also lived in in Lisa's shadow. On this day, 144 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: forty years ago, a teenage girl disappeared in Vernon. Well today, 145 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: the community came together to remember Lisa Joy White and 146 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: make sure that she is not forgotten. April and I 147 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 1: established the Lisa White Stone Memorial with the help of 148 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: volunteers in two thousand fourteen at Talcott Park in Rockville, Connecticut. 149 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: It was the anniversary of Lisa's disappearance, and the Mayor 150 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: of Vernon was on hand, as were several members of 151 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: the Vernon Police Department. I've come to know over the 152 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: years about a hundred people showed up. That's love, that's commitment, 153 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: that's community. The memorial is a stone boulder, actually about 154 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: the size of a golf cart. Etched in it is 155 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: Lisa's class photo underneath the words gone but not forgotten. 156 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: It the same image plastered on missing person flyers and posters, 157 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: exemplifying Lisa's piercing blue eyes, golden blonde hair parted in 158 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: the middle, sweeping just over her shoulders. Lisa displays a 159 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: half smile smirk which kind of speaks to her character. 160 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: The memorial is as much a dedication to Lisa as 161 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: it is to Judy Kelly April and Lisa's mother. Judy 162 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: was a single mom, three kids, working three different jobs, 163 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: trying to make ends meet. Um. Very hard worker. Did 164 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: her best to get us to all our extracurricular activities, 165 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: the cheerleading, the dance, the baseball, the football, and did 166 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: an awesome job with that. And dance though, was the 167 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: focus for Lisa. Wasn't your focus? No? I went because 168 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 1: Lisa went, and you kind of took over. Really what 169 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: was Lisa's dream? Correct? Yes? Where we are right now 170 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: at the studio and you ran with it. Yes, it 171 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: was very important to Judy. Um. Sometimes I felt I 172 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: was trying to be two people. I was trying to 173 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: be Lisa and myself, which is a lot of pressure, 174 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: especially you know, the teenager and and whatever. But without 175 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: Lisa I would have never started dancing. That was her thing. 176 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: She was extremely talented, um strong as a bull. Lisa 177 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: was a natural acrobat and dancer. Silent eight millimeter home 178 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: movies showed this side of her, but she also had 179 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: an independence about her. Even at a young age. She 180 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: was driven by a need to be autonomous, to rebel, 181 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: to stare authority in its eyes and confront it. Unfortunately, 182 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: when she started hanging around the wrong people her interest 183 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: kind of yes, it did. I mean Lisa was kind 184 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: of tough, right, yes, yes, very tough, very bullheaded, um, 185 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: never back down, always ready for an argument or a fight. 186 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: April continued talking about who Lisa like to hang out with. 187 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: She had, you know, a couple of girlfriends her age. 188 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: The males that she was hanging with five, six, even 189 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: seven years older, young men, not the best influences. Lisa 190 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: ran with a tough crowd, an older group. She was 191 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: living a life beyond her thirteen years. The night before 192 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: she went missing, Lisa was with some of those friends. 193 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: It was Halloween vour. She was with a group of 194 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: young men and her friend who was the same age 195 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: as her, and they went joy riding. There is drinking involved, 196 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: um up on the Massachusetts border, and they decided to 197 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: throw pumpkins out the window and we're pulled over um 198 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: and they took Lisa to the state police barracks. No 199 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: one could have known then that this situation would become 200 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: such a crucial moment within Lisa's investigation and actually hinder 201 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: chances of finding her and had to call my mother 202 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: to come pick her up. Needless to say, my mother 203 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: was enraged, very concerned. I think at that point she 204 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: had been going through so many other incidents that had 205 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: happened that were just you know, very just scary to discern. Okay, 206 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: And she was grounded on November one because of that night, 207 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: that is correct. And as soon as Judy took off 208 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: for work and her second shift job, Lisa decided what 209 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: she decided that she was going to go and see 210 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: this friend who she thought of as a sister. April 211 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: was referring to Maria Scrow, Lisa's closest friend. On the 212 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: night she went missing, Lisa walked from her house in 213 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: Vernon and headed toward downtown Rockville, about two miles. According 214 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: to information I've obtained, during that walk, Lisa stopped to 215 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: see two friends, telling both she would call them later 216 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: that night at about eleven PM when she returned home. 217 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: So she was there, um, I think for a couple 218 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: of hours, and I wanted to get home before my 219 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: mother got home from work because again she was grounded, 220 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: and at that point she decided, you know, she was 221 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: going to leave and try and hitch hike home and 222 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: never made it home. I'm in Vernon today to meet 223 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: with Marius grow, the friend who was with Lisa the 224 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: night she disappeared. I'm gonna be parking right here, just 225 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: down the street from Lisa's memorial. I want to get 226 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: a feel for where Lisa was the last time she 227 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: was seen. I mean, I've been here dozens of times. 228 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: It's not far from where I live today. Pulkot Park 229 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: on the corner of Prospect and Ellen him Maria, But 230 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: how are you? Maria Scrow is the same age Lisa 231 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: White would be today, about fifty. She has short, wavy 232 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: gray hair and this gentle way about her, very sincere. 233 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: She looks around a lot as we chat, as if 234 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: she's expecting to recognize someone walking by. Maria does not 235 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: live anywhere near Vernon Rockville. These days, downtown Rockville can 236 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: be a busy place. This area, the streets around the park. 237 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: I call it Funeral Row because several old and quite 238 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: creepy Victorian homes around us were transformed long ago into 239 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: funeral homes. I've buried friends here myself. We head towards 240 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: Talcott Park, where Lisa White's memorial is located and just 241 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: down the street from where Maria and her parents used 242 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: to live. The park itself is small, about the size 243 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: of a football field, full of your typical boring town 244 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: landscaping playscape in one corner, several bench seats scattered around, 245 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: one directly in front of Lisa's memorial. The green grass 246 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: is separated down the middle, with the cement sidewalk running 247 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: from one corner to the other. Maria speaks with a 248 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: voice touched by an inherent pain I have become all 249 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: too familiar with when speaking to people connected to these cases. 250 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: I've learned there is no expiration date on memory when 251 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: it comes to trauma. Maria is a mother herself, like 252 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: everyone else I've spoken to. She tells me the years 253 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: time has not changed anything. The pain of not knowing 254 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: is relentless, NonStop and crushing. I asked her what she 255 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: remembers about the night Lisa went missing. So, now, did 256 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: she call you that night come over? Yeah, she came 257 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 1: over to my house to um she wanted to leave 258 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: my mom and dad and not saying that she was 259 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: very sorry and and you know, embarrassed that you know, 260 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: we got in trouble and that she hurt them. Yes, 261 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: and um. Then you know my dad was home, but 262 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: he was sleeping, so we were being quiet, you know, 263 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: in my bedroom, being quiet, and she walked over. She 264 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: walked over, They walked everywhere. This is important to me 265 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: and the thread beginning to present itself. You know, either 266 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: I was down her house, she was up here, or 267 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: we were up at Red Apple. That's where our hangout was. 268 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: The Red Apple was a small town grocery store about 269 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: one point five miles from Maria's house, one of those 270 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: places where they bagged your groceries, and some zip face 271 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: kid wearing a bow tie carried them out to the car. Now, 272 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,719 Speaker 1: remember Lisa was grounded because of the trouble she had 273 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: gotten into with Maria the previous night on Halloween. She 274 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: was not supposed to see Maria ever again, and so 275 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 1: she waited for her mother to leave for work near 276 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: four pm and then snuck over to Maria's house. So, 277 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: after Judy went to work, she walked right, she came over. 278 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: My mom was gone, so I said yeah, my mom's 279 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: gosh said all right. So then you know we talked 280 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: and hung out and we hugged each other and said 281 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: we'll see it. You know we'll see it at school 282 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: because we weren't allowed to see each other. And how 283 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: come you wearn allowed to because Lisa loved to write notes, poems, pros. 284 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: On the day she went missing, Lisa penned two page 285 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: note to her mother, Judy Kelly, on yellow paper. My look, 286 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: I'm really sorry, it began. She then apologized for the 287 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: trouble she'd caused the previous night. As the letter continued, 288 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: she also talked about what she wanted out of life. 289 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: Quote Maria and her family end quote. Lisa yearned to 290 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: move into Maria's house. She longed for a traditional family lifestyle. 291 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: What's clear is that the note is not a dear mom, 292 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: I'm running away letter. It was Lisa explaining feelings she 293 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: could not face sharing with her mother in person, while 294 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: expressing how sorry she was for the previous night binge 295 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: drinking and tossing those pumpkins out of the car. She 296 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: loved her mom, but they had their arguments and stuff too, 297 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: you know, But she loved her mom, and she never 298 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: ever talked about running away, you know. I Mean sometimes 299 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: she'd be like, I can't wait till them old enough 300 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: to move out and get me, you know. The things 301 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: start teen year old to think about, but she never 302 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: she wouldn't hurt her family like that. In the letter, 303 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: Lisa also mentioned a boy named Greg and said she 304 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: loved Greg and Maria quote more than anything end quote. 305 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 1: Near the end of the letter, Lisa added, I really 306 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: am starting to understand more. What did she talk about 307 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: you leading up to that night she was in love 308 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: with Greg. Greg was Maria's boyfriend's best friend a few 309 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 1: years older, and Lisa claimed she loved him. He was 310 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 1: the same boy she and Maria were with the night 311 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: they got into trouble. This was the reason why they 312 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: hung out at the Red Apple so much. Both boys 313 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: lived nearby. Early on, Greg was looked at as a 314 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: potential suspect, but then quickly ruled out. As Lisa and 315 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: Maria hung out that night November one, there came a 316 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: time when Lisa said she had to leave, and um, 317 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: so she said, all right, I better go because you know, 318 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: my mom was going to be coming home and she 319 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: wanted to be Judy home before she got out of work. 320 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: And do you remember what time she showed up? I 321 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: don't really remember that. Okay, what time she left? She 322 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: left about seven thirty or so, it wasn't late, you 323 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: know what I mean, because my mom was grocery shopping, 324 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: so I know it wasn't late. I should point out 325 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: that by seven thirty pm in November in New England 326 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: it's dark as a cave outside. Hitchhiking could not have 327 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: been a safe feeling. And did do you know which 328 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: way she went? She always goes that away? Maria pointed west. 329 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: The shortest way home for Lisa would have been to 330 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: take a right out of the scroll House and walk 331 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: about two blocks, then trek six blocks, ending up at 332 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: a nearby seven eleven. So we always went down to 333 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: seven eleven and up West Road and then cut off 334 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: West Road where the seven eleven still is today, took 335 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: Lisa to her street, Reagan Road. Maria is certain Lisa 336 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: went this way. Lisa's mother reported her missing at about 337 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: ten thirty PM, so her leaving Maria's at seven seven 338 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: thirty gave her abductor a head start of three to 339 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: four hours. Think about that for a moment. It's four 340 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: no internet, no cell phones. Police departments had very limited 341 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: communication among one another, if much at all. From Rockville, 342 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: three to four hours was enough time to be in Pennsylvania, 343 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: New York, New Jersey, you know, and the Lexa I know, 344 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,959 Speaker 1: I don't know even know what time it was, one 345 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning whatever. My parents were waking me 346 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: up and they said, did you see Lisa tonight? And 347 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: do not run of us? And that's when I get 348 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 1: jumped out, and as I said, yes, and so that 349 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,959 Speaker 1: started the whole thing. That started the whole thing. And 350 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: in the beginning, it was kind of like she had 351 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: run away, right, everybody thought she ran away because of 352 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: the you know, we had gotten in trouble. Of course, 353 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: Judie was madder than a hornet. My parents were madder 354 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: than a hornet, and everybody thought you in a way, 355 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 1: So a lot of the focus was on me that 356 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: I knew where she was. I was hiding her. The 357 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: first set of investigators and even as recently as two 358 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen, focused on Maria as someone who knew 359 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: what happened to Lisa. White detectives pressured her to tell 360 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: them where Lisa had run off to. It was that 361 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: old investigative mentality that Lisa had run away that probably 362 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 1: hampered any early evidence that could have been collected, especially 363 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: witness statements. And look, this was by no fault of 364 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: the police. The situation appeared to be that of a runaway. 365 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: It was seventy four. All of the early reports and 366 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: I've seen and read everyone are focused on Lisa taking off. 367 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm thirteen years old, you know, Maria pleaded 368 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: with police. I do not know anything. With pressure mounting 369 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: in those hours and days after Lisa went missing, Maria 370 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: took matters into her own hands, and UM, me and 371 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: a bunch of kids we went up all by Valley Fall, 372 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: showing her picture, you know, looking for in the woods, 373 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: up at the snap, looking around. But they always came 374 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 1: back to thinking that I knew where she was. So 375 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: finally I took my you know, the State cup. I 376 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: don't remember his name, he was on the league case. 377 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: He said, well, the only way to prove you don't 378 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: know anything, let's take a lie dechecter tests. And I 379 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: said yes, and my father said the LL give permission. 380 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: I took the lie detective tests and I passed. Something 381 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: happened after Maria took the polygraph, which I can sense 382 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: and see as I talked to her, still has a lingering, 383 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: intense emotional effect and I'll never forget it. And I 384 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: don't blame Judy. I never did. But when she found 385 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: out that I passed it, she came to my house 386 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: and a flirt and she said, I wished it was you. 387 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: I wish it was Judy. Kelly was relentless in her 388 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: pursuit of finding her daughter, such as stopping at the 389 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: Vernon Police Department every month for decades, always up in 390 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: their face. Judy Kelly and I had a special bond. 391 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: In two thousand nine, she asked me to look into 392 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: Lisa's disappearance. I promised I would find answers. But on 393 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: July three, two twelve, just after sharing over four hundred 394 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: pages of materials she'd collected and handed off to me, 395 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: including a detailed diary she kept on the day Lisa 396 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: went missing and letters Lisa left behind, Judy passed away 397 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: at the age of seventy two. It's been a personal 398 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: obsession of mine ever since to honor my word. Every 399 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: time I opened up this case, in particular, this tight 400 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: anxiety builds in my gut, as if the answer to 401 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: Lisa's disappearance is in front of me, but I just 402 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: cannot reach it. Digging through that four page binder, one 403 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: day I came across a newspaper clipping from the year 404 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: after Lisa went missing. Judy had published a letter to 405 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: the editor chastising local law enforcement search for her daughter. 406 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: She wrote, quote, I was surprised to see that Vernon 407 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 1: police organized a rescue team of a hundred men to 408 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: search for a forty six year old man who was 409 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: missing for two days. Why is it that this effort 410 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: was not made to locate a thirteen year old girl? 411 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: End quote. I know from reading Judy Kelly's diary that 412 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: she was never in denial. She knew her daughter, She 413 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 1: felt it Lisa was never coming back, which was why 414 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: she used the word dead when she saw Maria all 415 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: those years later and said she'd wished it was her. 416 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: I've seen this in similar cases. The pain is so 417 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: intense for family, emotion emphatically raw and fraid. You really 418 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: have no idea what you're saying or doing. All you 419 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: see are those images in your head of what you 420 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: think is happening to your child, what's some scumbag maybe 421 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: doing to her. Judy lashed out at the only person 422 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: she could, the last connection to Lisa. I understand that 423 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 1: Judy had the anger, but I think it would have 424 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: been easier if her and I state kept our bonds 425 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 1: and you know we're there for each other, because I 426 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: was completely cut off from that completely. You just said, 427 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: I don't want you here, I don't want you near 428 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: my kids. You know, she and I understand it. I 429 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: do that she was so hurt and heartbroken and not 430 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: knowing where her child was, that I was the the 431 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: go with escape bolt. You know, it's easier to be 432 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: angry at somebody than it is to feel pain. But 433 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: years later I understood, and I became a mother. I 434 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: understood she was just upset. Yeah, Judy didn't talk to 435 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: me for many, many years, you know, and I think 436 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: I was. I had my kids by thee, so it 437 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: was my mid twenties and I've seen her and we 438 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: talked and she said, you know, I never met up. 439 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: And I said, I home my mother now too, right, 440 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: I don't hold different in stress, right right. I look 441 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: at this woman in front of me, crying, shaking, forty 442 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: five years after the experience, and what I refer to 443 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: as the ripple effective murder and the pain these cases 444 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: cause turns into a wave, a never ending torrent of emotions. 445 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: So Lisa takes off. I mean she was always sticking 446 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: out her thumb, right, we did. But I don't know 447 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: if she would do it by herself, because we always 448 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: had that code, always be together. But you know, in 449 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: her mind, maybe thinking I'm not going to get home 450 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: in time, let me see if I can get a ride. 451 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, but we always had that code, 452 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: never by ourselves hitchhike. That word hitchhike. Maria claims she 453 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: and especially Lisa were cautious, never reckless alone, They would 454 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,479 Speaker 1: never take rides from anyone. Still, Maria worries to this 455 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: day that Lisa was in such a hurry that night 456 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: to get home before her mother, who would have arrived 457 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: around nine pm or so, and because Lisa was grounded, 458 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: she might have stuck out her thumb and hitchhiked. So 459 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: if we're one of us is alone, too bad? You 460 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: walk it however far it is. That was the code 461 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: you had. We had a cold. So I don't know though, 462 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: because you know, she was upset. We were all upset 463 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: over what happened and getting in trouble and thinking we 464 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: can never be friends again. Or, as one law enforcement 465 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: source has suggested to me, perhaps Lisa knew the person 466 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: who stopped and asked if she wanted to ride. Maria 467 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: is unaware of this, but throughout my investigation, I've been 468 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: trying to see if there's more of a connection other 469 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: than proximity between the missing girls, Jane's Pocket, Debbie Spickler, 470 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: Lisa White, and Susan LaRosa. So I bring up a name. 471 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: Did you know that Larosa's who lived right down the 472 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: street from me? Yes, I used to babysitt from her 473 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: once in a while. Maria baby sat for Susan LaRosa, 474 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: one of the missing girls. I couldn't believe what I 475 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: was hearing. Here was a direct connection between Lisa White 476 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: and another of the missing girls. It was the first 477 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: time Maria said anyone had even asked her this question. 478 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: Sometimes all the cold case needs is asking the right 479 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: question and the floodgates open. It was as if I 480 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: could see a bit of light and maybe even the 481 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: shadow of a big moment finally fading, revealing itself. It 482 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: felt comforting and fired me up, but at the same 483 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: time a bit overwhelming. So after leaving Maria, I sat 484 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: in my jeep and took a moment, and that was 485 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: when it hit me. Jane's pocket goes missing. In seventy three. 486 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: Lisa White vanishes in seventy four, a block away from 487 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: where Susan Larossa lived, who then disappears herself a year 488 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: after Lisa in from basically the same location. There's never 489 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: been an official connection made among these three girls. I've 490 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: asked law enforcement repeatedly. No, they have told me time 491 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: and again. But as an investigator, an expert on serial 492 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: crime myself, especially when looking into abduction in homicide cases, 493 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: I have learned there are no coincidences in murder, only connections. 494 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: In the next episode of Paper Ghosts, she moved out 495 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: and my mother. At that point she thought, Wow, somebody 496 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: took herross my hands, and he's gonna make everything wonderful. 497 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: She was induced with the mother. She didn't know how 498 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: to love, She didn't know how to be a mom. 499 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: These kids were not what she wanted. Police used to 500 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: handle domestic violence just for the warning. They would tell husbands, 501 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, control your wife, or I'll go back inside, 502 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: don't call us. I saw her crack him over the 503 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: head with a cast iron frying fan where he needed stitches, 504 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: and he didn't do a thing about it because it 505 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: just wasn't in him to do that I mean it 506 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: was like hell. House Paper Ghosts is written and executive 507 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: produced by me and William Phelps, with help from producer 508 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: Christina Everett and sound editing by Pete Cardy from back 509 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: Room Audio. Special thanks to Abu Safar and Will Pearson 510 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: from My Heart Radio. The series theme number four four 511 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: two is written and performed by Tom Mooney and Thomas Phelps. 512 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I 513 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 514 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 1: your favorite shows. H