1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: Where Were You in ninety two is a production of 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. A special note this episode features themes 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 1: of sexual assault and may not be suitable for all listeners. 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Where Are You In nine two, a podcast 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: in which I Your host Jason Lamfier, look back at 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 1: the major hits, one hit wonders, shocking news stories, and 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: irresistible scandals that shaped what might be the wildest, most eclectic, 8 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: most controversial twelve months of music ever. This week, we 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: take a brief pit stop in our crazy ride You 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: for something extra special, an intimate chat with singer songwriter 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: Torey Amos, who paired pianos and guitars and shook the 12 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: music world to its core with her debut solo album, 13 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: Little Earthquakes. In an expanded interview from episode five, we 14 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: discussed the origins of the record, the uphill battle Amos 15 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: face to get it made, the powerful response she received 16 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: to stand out track It's Like Silence All These Years, 17 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: and Me and a Gun, and her work as the 18 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: first spokesperson for the rape Abuse in sust National Network 19 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: or RAIN. Be sure to tune in next week for 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: our final episode, which explores how in musicians like George 21 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: Michael Madonna, Elton, John Queen, YouTube and TLC confronted the 22 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:32,279 Speaker 1: AIDS crisis head on. So the first question I'm asking 23 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: guests on this show is a very simple one, but 24 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: also a very very weighted, very layered one, I think, 25 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: which is where were you mentally physically? I was releasing 26 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: a record called Little Earthquakes, and so I reckon I 27 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: was probably in UM the UK, going back and forth 28 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: to the States and the u K. Early and nine 29 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: two and the record came out and I started to 30 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: go on a world tour. But it was a rocky road. 31 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: Of course, it was not. It wasn't the easiest. The 32 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: conception was not easy, the release wasn't easy. UM, and 33 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: you definitely had to to fight for this record. Yeah, 34 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: I had to fight. I had to fight for the record. 35 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: And the other thing is it was a process. So 36 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: it really took about four years, if I'm if I'm 37 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: being fair and accurate about the whole thing. And it 38 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: happened in stages. So UM, the first demos that that 39 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: I was doing, I was doing with a producer called 40 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: Eric Ross, and then David Sergerson got involved and produced 41 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: UM a bunch of songs which included songs on the 42 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: record like Crucify and Silent all these years in winter 43 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: and um. When we turned in the record then it 44 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: was it was not accepted. So the suggestion was from 45 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: a producer to the head of Atlantic at the time, 46 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: it was Doug Morris. The suggestion was take all the 47 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: pianos off and put guitars on, and Doug and I 48 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: were able to come to a different outcome, which was 49 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: I would turn in a few more produced tracks, and 50 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: so I turned to Eric Ross and musicians that I 51 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: knew in l A Friends to come and collaborate. And 52 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: then that was the next stage. I love in In 53 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: In Resistance, which is your latest book, which is from 54 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: twenty UM, which I think came out right really after 55 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: the pandemic struck. Yes it did you address the conversation 56 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: you had to have with the Muses about using your 57 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: arsenal what you had in your arsenal at that time. 58 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: I think you were and using the arsenal that you 59 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: had to go up against these these label exacts and 60 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: and and fight to keep your voice and keep the 61 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: piano as and you know, integral, integral part of this record. 62 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: So tell me about that conversation that you had you 63 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: know with the muses and and how you got your 64 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: way in the end. Well, at the time, people, if 65 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: you weren't around then and aware of what was happening 66 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: in the music world, you might not know this. And uh, 67 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: the piano was not cool. So Elton and Billy it was. 68 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: They were still touring the world and they were, you know, 69 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: these legends where it was um embraced and accepted because 70 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: of their track record. They've been around a long long time. 71 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: But really, uh, what was happening in the music scene 72 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: was women like Tracy Chapman and Susanne Vega. The guitar 73 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: um was being embraced, which is great, but the piano 74 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: was seen as some kind of well, let's put it 75 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:23,559 Speaker 1: this way, not part of the Seattle sound not. It 76 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: wasn't considered, oh, this could stand next to grunge and 77 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: be badass. It was not seen as that. So I 78 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: think it's really important that people realize the context and 79 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 1: the narrative. So it was my mission two because I 80 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: had ditched the piano on a record I made in 81 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: eight Night that bombed, called White Antry Read. So I followed, 82 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: uh what people were saying at the time, which has 83 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: embraced the synthesizer and and embraced this other type of sound. 84 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: And you know the piano's history that to leave it 85 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: back in the seventies. So in my dark night of 86 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: the soul after that album bombed, I crawled back to 87 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: the piano and realized that I had to find out 88 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: who I was as an artist, as a human being 89 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:20,239 Speaker 1: through the piano. That's where these songs came. I didn't 90 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: know my identity Jason anymore, because I had turned myself 91 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: into so many different people that I was, and I'd 92 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: worn so many masks to try and get out of 93 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: the bar room that, um, I didn't know who I 94 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: was anymore. So the piano had to take me back 95 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 1: to when I was five years old studying at the 96 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: Peabody Conservatory and and take me back to a magical 97 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: time when when music was magic. And I had completely 98 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: burned that to the ground and you wanted desperately to 99 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: revisit it and bring it back. And then you were 100 00:06:54,560 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: met with resistance. Yes, I'm tapping the book, um, And 101 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: you know I think that when you when you titled 102 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: the book resistance, you I think you meant from both perspectives, 103 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: like we're met with resistance but you you have to 104 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: resist and maintain your autonomy and maintain your vision. And 105 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: this record I think encapsulates that so perfectly. You write 106 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: a really detailed account of how Girl, the song Girl 107 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: was not one of the original cuts, you submitted one 108 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: of the ten to twelve original cuts. You and you 109 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: went home, You're with your parents, and it came to you. 110 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,559 Speaker 1: It came to you. You know, girls started to speak 111 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: to you, the users started to speak to you, and 112 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: you talk about how Girl ended up being salvation, a 113 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: bridge really that that helped get you to the you know, 114 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: from the original little Earthquakes, your original vision, to a 115 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: vision that was a little bit more what that, you know, 116 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: the label one so funny about that. So Girl was 117 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: documenting what I was going through in my battle at 118 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: that time. I was having the battle. Um. But of 119 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,239 Speaker 1: course I have to honor Doug Morris. He he said, 120 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: go on, here's here's some money, UM. And he he 121 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: was honest, he said, you and the producer you worked 122 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: with UM for the first set of cuts blew the budget. 123 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: Of course I didn't see any of that money. But 124 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: moving on, so we didn't have a lot, but hey, 125 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: how we were going to make these four tracks, and 126 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: I didn't know what the four tracks were going to be, 127 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: but I knew they needed to have something different than 128 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 1: the twelve I had turned in. So not knowing sometimes 129 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: as a as a songwriter, you you have no idea 130 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: where you're going or how you're going to get there. 131 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: So the best thing is to listen. The strongest thing 132 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: a songwriter can do is to sit and listen. You're 133 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: listening to the muses, you're observing, You're trying to be 134 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: in the moment, and and you're hoping that you're going 135 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: to be I don't know, lead to this magical sonic place. 136 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: And sometimes they only give you a two bar phrase 137 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: those music. Sometimes you don't you know, you don't get 138 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: the whole song. But girl was reflecting what I was 139 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: living at the time, which was she's been everybody else's girl. 140 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: Maybe one day she'll be her own. And it's like, yes, yes, 141 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: t a it, Come on, You've you've got to stop 142 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: being um such a sponge and just saying Okay, I'll 143 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: twist myself and turn myself into whatever you want. Just 144 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: because you want to leave the bar room. What if 145 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: you never leave the bar room? You need to go 146 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: there because if you can accept that, then you will 147 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: write what you need to write for your soul, not 148 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 1: for somebody else having an opinion. It's just an opinion, 149 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: and usually they're wrong. Usually they're wrong. So then the 150 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: four songs came and by that time I turned them in. 151 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: But Doug had found Silent all these years. He had 152 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: listened to it going home in his car one night 153 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: and he got it. The penny dropped and he said, Okay, 154 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: I realized this, this was one of the original twelve. 155 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: But I get it. I get it now, and I 156 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 1: think you need to go to England. And I went, 157 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 1: pardon what what? He said? Yes, I have a counterpart 158 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: over there called Max Hole East West Records in London, 159 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: and he will get it. He will understand and his 160 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: team will understand what to do with this, and that 161 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: was the next phase of the journey. It's fascinating too. 162 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: When I read that, it made total sense to me 163 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: because I thought, this is a country where Wuthering Heights 164 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: by Cape is one of your heroes, one of my heroes. 165 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: Guest was the number one song, which that would just 166 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: never happened in America. So you know, not to say 167 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: that Silent all these years was derivative of Kate Bush 168 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: by any means, but it was. It's a piano based track. 169 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: It is very much a classically sounding piano led ballad, yes, 170 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: piano and orchestra, and that not one note changed on 171 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: that from when we turned it in. UM. I think 172 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: it might have just had a different mix. But I 173 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: don't mean a dancer, I don't mean a remix. I'm 174 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: talking about just some sonic sweet names maybe you know, 175 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: boost the mids or something. But but honestly, that song 176 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: was what it was from day dot and it just 177 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: I found it really intriguing that people were gravitating towards 178 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: that song. And at that time, if you remember, you 179 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: must have been a young when this happened, very very young. 180 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 1: Was Anita Hill had just been um on television. I 181 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 1: saw her on television. I was in England at the time. 182 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: This was autumn of ninety one, and she said something 183 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: to the effect of I couldn't stay silent any longer, 184 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: something to that effect, and within two weeks, three weeks, 185 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: Silent all these years was getting played on the radio 186 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: in England. Now, sometimes when you're writing a song, you 187 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: have no idea, the um, the moment that it's going 188 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: to cross another moment. Well, she was. This was volcanic 189 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: what was happening with Anita Hill. And I encourage people 190 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: to read the story if you haven't read her story, 191 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: but um, she was talking about sexual assault allegedly with 192 00:12:55,480 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: a chief justice who is still a chief Justice, and um, 193 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: this was shocking the world and the courage that it 194 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: took for her to speak. And it just so happened 195 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: that this song silent all these years, was coming out 196 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: within a couple of weeks of this shock. So it 197 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: was really relevant at the time. And when I was 198 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: writing it, you have no idea what circumstances are going 199 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: to cross the song's path, which then becomes part of 200 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: the narrative. It really it took on a new relevance 201 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: as you're saying a new meeting, and it's sort of 202 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: almost became bigger than you. And it has continued to 203 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: resonate through the ages you can apply that song to. 204 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: You know, just a few years after Anitaho, we had 205 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: Monica Lewinsky and then she was silenced. But then she 206 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: came forward, what two decades later, and she's like, excuse me, 207 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: my voice was lost, and all of this in this 208 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: Clinton scandal. Let me tell my side of the story. 209 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: Now that's right. I started to realize people would stand 210 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: after the concert by the stage door to tell me 211 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: their story, and that began this this kind of exchange 212 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: that's been happening now for thirty years, which is people. 213 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: It's pretty humbling when you think they're they're telling you 214 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: some of their they're very intimate experiences or fears or 215 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: um some people even saying I don't feel worthy of 216 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: a story because my story he isn't one of assault. 217 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: And so then and you have to have compassion and 218 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: understand that everyone has a story and it's unique to you, 219 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: and it's and it's important. Everyone's story is important, but 220 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: it needs to be valued. And it really um opened 221 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: me up to understanding that everybody has a story to 222 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: tell and each one needs to be valued. Was that 223 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: a breakthrough moment for you and fans responded to that 224 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: song that way and came to speak to you backstage, 225 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: or was there another moment where you realized, oh, wow, 226 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: my music is really touching people. The music from Little 227 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: Earthquakes is really touching people in a way that my 228 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: music has not touched people before I was learning about it. 229 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: Then and it was humbling. Um, because I'm a conduit 230 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: for the muses. I do not write these on my own, 231 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: I promise you, hand on my heart, um, because I 232 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: know when I write things on my own, I can 233 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: do that. I have the toolbox to do that. But 234 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: it doesn't it's not the it's not the same, it's 235 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: not the same without that collaboration. And I think that there. Ah, 236 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: they they're tough teachers sometimes and they demand whomever they're 237 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: working with, and they they're working with all kinds of 238 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: people in all kinds of genres, as we both know. Um. 239 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: But I think it was when a young girl heard 240 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: a song called Me and a Gun, which is a 241 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: song a little Earthquakes about a sexual assault, and she 242 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: fainted during the song. Um. And after the show they 243 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: had taken her backstage and she told me her story, 244 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: and she said, can I please come on the road. 245 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: I'll do anything. I'll do any I work in the 246 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: kitchens or whatever I can do. Um, because my stepfather 247 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: raped me last night. He will tomorrow night and when 248 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: I get in tonight he will. And so I was, 249 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: of course, you're coming on the road with me and 250 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: we'll figure it out now, Naively Jason. Of course I 251 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: don't understand legal. Of course I didn't. I'm not a psychiatrist. 252 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 1: I didn't understand what was happening, but I saw the 253 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: terror in the eyes and in my UM. Well, it's 254 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: just trying to do something. You're trying to do something. 255 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: So I get a call from legal coming into the 256 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: venue saying you will be arrested for kidnapping. You are 257 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: crossing state line tonight on the buses and you will 258 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: be arrested. And at the time, there just wasn't UM 259 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: a place where I knew where to call. Now I 260 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: know when she walked out that I watched her go. 261 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: I've never seen her again. I've never heard from her again, 262 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: and it plagues me to this day because we have 263 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: no idea UM. But what she inspired was me then 264 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: galvanized to work with RAIN and I was I was 265 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: asked to be there for spokesperson and UM to work 266 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: with that organization. It's still around and it's a national hotline. UM. 267 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,239 Speaker 1: Can you tell listeners what what RAIN is UM in 268 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: case they're not familiar with it. RAIN is UM Rape 269 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: Abuse and Incests National Network one D six five six 270 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: hope and UH. There are trained people there to take 271 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: the calls. They have a military section, UM and then 272 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: they have a civilian section. Uh. And during the pandemic, 273 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 1: what we learned is that we've had so many calls 274 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: from younger people because of the house arrest and kids 275 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: not being able to reach out to people who can 276 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: then help them, so that they've they've been isolated. And 277 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: that's one of the tragedies of this pandemic. In the lockdowns, 278 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: it's I mean, you've already touched on two very raw 279 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: and painful tracks from that from the record Little earth Quakes, 280 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: um Me and a Gun is a pivotal track, a 281 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: touchdown in your career, and I mean you've spoken already 282 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: about the significance of it, and now it resonated with people. 283 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: Take me to that moment when you knew you had 284 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: to write that song, where you had to include it 285 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: on the record, when the music spoke tuneside Tori, this 286 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: is maybe arrest, This is maybe going to be the 287 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: most challenging moment of your career, but we got to 288 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: do this. Yes. Uh. There are moments when you're guided 289 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: and I was guided to do this acapella UM. And 290 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: there's a level of trust that you have with the 291 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: muses in the moment, because my goodness, when you're creating 292 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: and talking about some of the harrowing things UM, which 293 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: some of the songs over the years cover cover difficult. 294 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: You know, the skin is off, we're on zipping, getting 295 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: to those deep emotions that people have been harboring their 296 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: whole lives, and you're and you're going into the wound 297 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: and how you go into that wound and then how 298 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: you hopefully the song walks with someone through their dark night. 299 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: You know that that is what the muses um do 300 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: and and so being part of that, there's a huge 301 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,479 Speaker 1: responsibility because you're thinking, if I get this wrong, if 302 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: I get this wrong, if I tell this story wrong, 303 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: then what I don't want to do harm. I don't 304 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: want to take somebody to a place and get them shattered. 305 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: You want to take them to a place of recognition 306 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: of Okay, this might have happened to him, to her, 307 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: to them, and then they foind they find something empowering 308 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: by it. Now, maybe there's a long journey that is 309 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: to happen from victim to survivor maybe there's a lot 310 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: of work that will have to be done, but the 311 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: first step is always acknowledging and and not running away 312 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: you know from from those um tragic moments that that 313 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: that sometimes people want to block out. So working with 314 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: Rain all these years has really taught me. Taught me 315 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: a lot. And the people that are on that front 316 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: line every day, UM wow, what a commitment that they have. 317 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: But it all started by a song that then people, um, 318 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: people embraced and then told their story. To me. I've 319 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: always been, you know, interested in why you decided to 320 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: do it acapella and if you were met with not 321 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: to go back to this word again, but resistance from 322 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: from the label, because not only did this song not 323 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: have guitars, it didn't even have pianos. It had nothing. 324 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: It was the most it was the ross thing imaginable 325 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: and the only thing I could compare it to at 326 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: that time. I remember, I remember Behind the Wall from 327 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: Tracy Chapman from her first record. You remember that song 328 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: I Do, which was also about I mean abuse, and 329 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: it was acapella, And I remember my father being obsessed 330 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: with that record and playing it on repeat. And I 331 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: remember that song when I always I was very very 332 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: very young, but I remember it would always stop me 333 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: in my tracks because it was unlike anything I had 334 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: ever heard from a pop or rock or folk musician, 335 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 1: and especially a female musician. It was so powerful, and so, 336 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: you know, fast forward four years later, I believe, I 337 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,199 Speaker 1: believe Tracy Chapman's debut was eight eight You Bring Me 338 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: In a Gun and and but no, nobody was really 339 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: doing that. Nobody was really making acapella songs, especially women 340 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: who they were already brought to the side still, you 341 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: know in rock and pop music. Well, there was a 342 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: faction at the label that didn't want this song on 343 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 1: and and said, this is you know, this is really disturbing. 344 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: I'm disturbed by this. And I said, if you were 345 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: not disturbed by this, then that would be scary. You 346 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: need to be disturbed. Sometimes music wants to be disturbing. 347 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: That's what it is. So let's not resist that, let's 348 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: embrace that. But I had to really again, I had 349 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: to put up a resistance of capitulating. I had to 350 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: be strong. I had to stand by um the songs, 351 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:53,239 Speaker 1: and and also I had to listen to some of 352 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: the improvements that the team wanted me to make, because 353 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: you know, we're back to babies in bathwater, just throwing 354 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: everything out just to dig your heels and that's not 355 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: very clever. So sometimes taking on board somebody's comment, some 356 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: someone's critique of something so that we can improve it. 357 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: And that was a huge learning curve as a creator. 358 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: When do you have a think take a think tank 359 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: where you can agree with some things and then use thinking. Well, 360 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 1: not so fast. I think we're having a knee jerk 361 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: reaction and we need to be bold and brave and 362 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,719 Speaker 1: stand by the acapella track and it stays on. And 363 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: you made you made concessions. Yes, after you went back 364 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: and you said, okay, I'm not going to give you 365 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: one song my guitars, I'm leaving four, including Girl, including 366 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: Press Precious Things, which um, I believe you you share 367 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: a story in Resistance. UM, I think you were you 368 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: travel you headed west. You were in America at that point, 369 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: but you headed west. I think you were in the 370 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: Rockies walking and I think you said just a couple 371 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: of words came to you as you're on this hike, 372 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: or so tell me about precious Things. Well, we took 373 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: Eric Ross and I took a trip out west and 374 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: he was producing these four tracks with me. Um, and 375 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: I had a lot of respect for his musicality. So 376 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: we were on this trip and by now we were 377 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: in Colorado, and um, if I remember correctly, I fell 378 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: unto the weather. And sometimes when these things happen, it's strange, 379 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: it's almost as if as if, um, you know, you're 380 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: not in protective mode, you get worn down a bit, 381 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: whether it's m hm, the veil drops and I was 382 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: in the woods somewhere and walking somewhere, and then, like 383 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: we've talked about before, those muses, sometimes they just sprinkle 384 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: a few bars and the penny drops again, and you think, okay, okay, 385 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: this is something. This is not just you know, me 386 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 1: sing it in the shower today, which you know we 387 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: all do, and we all make up these silly songs, 388 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: which I make up silly song all the time. But 389 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: Precious Things. I knew she was coming to be on 390 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: the record. I knew that she was and bursting through 391 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 1: and um yeah, creating that was a challenge, but we 392 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 1: we got there. For anyone who thinks who's not as 393 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: familiar with your music, which that's criminal, but Victorium is 394 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: cannot rock you've never heard Precious Things, because hearing that 395 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: is revelatory. The drums alone are massive, and then the 396 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: bridge is just explosive. And also you use these voices 397 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: throughout the record, and you use them and precious things 398 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: you summon and girl and they almost it's a male voice, 399 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: and it almost sounds demonic. It sounds dark. And I've 400 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: always you know, I've always wondered. It really stood out 401 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: to me when I discovered this record and fell in 402 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: love with it, because I had never really heard anything 403 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: like it. And you know, Kate Bush experiment again to 404 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: bring up Kate Bush. She experimented again with those voices 405 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: on the Dreaming and on Hounds of Hounds of Love, 406 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: and they're a little bit of that in this and 407 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: this record. Can you tell me a little bit about that? 408 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: I think what was happening at the time was that 409 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: there was a freedom to create, because the worst thing 410 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: that I could ever imagine in music was to put 411 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: out a record and be left at be ridiculed. And 412 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: and the thing in l a that you really don't 413 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: want to catch is failure. You will not be going 414 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: to any parties if you have failed. And I remember 415 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: walking into a little restaurant that I always walked into, 416 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: and these people were in the music business, and as 417 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: I passed by, they laughed. They laughed at me. Um, 418 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: and I was called something like a bimbo and billboard, 419 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: you know it was. It was a fleeting moment because 420 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: nobody cared. Failure gets brushed under the rug and you 421 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: get swept out, you know, with the garbage, your garbage, 422 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: but not Shirley Manson, the beautiful garbage love so so 423 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: things like precious things of voices. I was going through, um, 424 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: you know, I was crossing the river sticks, I was 425 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: going to meet Persephone. I was in hades because I 426 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:05,959 Speaker 1: had failed. But through the failure and being on your 427 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: knees and being in the muck, which has happened at 428 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: different times in my life. Not all records come from there, 429 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: but a few have um this one Scarlet's Walk and 430 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: Ocean to ocean. They've come from a place of deep 431 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: despondency and and deep heartache because you know, I'd lost myself. 432 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: But the truth is I had lost myself a long 433 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: time before that, Jason. I started losing myself when I 434 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: started chasing it, and when I started chasing it in 435 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: my early twenties and just saying well, I've got to 436 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: get out of the barroom, so I'll do anything to 437 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: get out, I'll I'll write any song I need to write, 438 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: and so, you know, talk about the fame whore, the 439 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: fame whore arch hype Um just took over my brain 440 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: and my my pen and my piano, and I allowed 441 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: her to do that. I allowed her to do that. 442 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: And so these songs and these voices that you talk about, 443 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: there's a there's a conjuring, and there's a there's a 444 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: narrative that I was trying to tell sonically, I was 445 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: trying to explain the level of emotions that were happening 446 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: at the time. It to me, has always felt like 447 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: this internal tug of war with you and your past, 448 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: with you and what people want you to be versus 449 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: what you want to be. Their voice versus your voice. 450 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: They're dragging you down. You're looking for uplift, I'm dragging 451 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: me down. So they're actually you, you you would say those 452 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: voices are or maybe maybe maybe yes, my saboteur absolutely 453 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: spot on. I have to take responsibility for listening to opinions, 454 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: to chasing it. And I'm sure any artist that's listening 455 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:22,959 Speaker 1: right now that has has thought, Okay, you know, this 456 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: is a hard slog when you get rejection after rejection 457 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: after rejection after rejection. We're talking years and years and 458 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: years and years and years and years. Then you go, Okay, 459 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: maybe I'm on the maybe this um singer songwriter talking 460 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: about my emotions. Maybe I'm on the wrong path. Maybe 461 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: I need to right in another way. So then you 462 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: start listening to what people and the labels are signing 463 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: and what they want to be, and all of a 464 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: sudden you think, Okay, well maybe I can do that. 465 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: But just because you can do it, because you have 466 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: the musicality, doesn't mean anybody's going to believe you, because 467 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: it's disingenuous, because it's a lie. Now, I think some 468 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: people can create a character and step into that character 469 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: and it works and they have the facility to make 470 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: that happen. But that was not working for me. And 471 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: you toyed with characters later, but you were very explicit 472 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: about what you were doing. There was a whole narrative 473 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: for each character, and there was a purpose. It was pop, 474 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, persona that was you were putting out into 475 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: the world. It was no, this is a character that's 476 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: been through this and I've had you know, a Neil 477 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,959 Speaker 1: Gaiman has written a story about it. For me, and 478 00:33:43,040 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: here we Go, Here we Go. Yeah, you really wanted to, 479 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: Like you said, you wanted to rekindle your relationship with 480 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: the piano and you wanted this to be your your record. 481 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: You came back with Girl, Precious Things. What were the 482 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: other two tracks? Oh my goodness, you're testing me now, 483 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: I'm trying to was a little earth Quakes one because 484 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: earth quacks and tear in your Hands, Hear in your Head, 485 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: which also has guitars. Yes, um, oh, wonderful tracks. I 486 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: can't imagine that record not having those tracks. Looking back, 487 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: do you think, my god, I'm so happy they made 488 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,479 Speaker 1: it onto the record. I don't know what it would 489 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: be without or do you absolutely? Jason? Because without them 490 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: and and Me and a Gun wasn't on the original 491 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 1: record that came later. Okay, so that was something else 492 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: you submitted after the guitars tracks to the guitars. You 493 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 1: gave them that so you could probably you know, were 494 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: you thinking, I'm gonna give them this so then I 495 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: get a win later m hm. When I was in England, 496 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: I wrote me in a Gun after I turned in 497 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: these four and we recorded a song called China. So um, 498 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: what had been the original twelve songs. Those songs became 499 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: B sides, the ones that were moved aside for the 500 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 1: four and then China and Manican. So yes, it's a 501 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: completely different record. So if Doug had gotten it from 502 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: the beginning, it wouldn't be what it is. So so 503 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,800 Speaker 1: that's where sometimes you have to kind of go through 504 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: the process in the battle and out of the battle. Um, 505 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: I hung onto the pianos, but we got seven tracks 506 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: that because of his perception, um, that we wouldn't have had. 507 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: So you know, that's where the magic of a relationship 508 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: can create something good. So you talk about getting there 509 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: with you know, like we were talking about, um, you know, 510 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: writing press things, writing girl. What isn't addressed in Resistance 511 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: is the moment where you presented these and how you 512 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,760 Speaker 1: got that green light. So tell me about that. Oh 513 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: my goodness, Um, yeah it was. It was really wonderful 514 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: understanding that that Doug understood, but not just he He 515 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: didn't just understand the four songs. He understood Silent all 516 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,879 Speaker 1: these years and when he got it, he got it. 517 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: But he thought the four songs I turned in, we're 518 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: making the album better and he was absolutely right. So uh, 519 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: of course, then I went to England and then other 520 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: things started to happen, which were the other two songs. 521 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: And I did a cover of smells like teen Spirit um, 522 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,839 Speaker 1: which for to take it to the piano was was 523 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: a bit shocking for some people. But the song is 524 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: so great that it could hold it. It could hold 525 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: a completely different read, um, and that says a lot 526 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: for the songwriting for sure. And then we were also 527 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 1: working on the visuals, which um were driven by the 528 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: English side. Mm hmm, tell me about the visuals. Let's 529 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: walk down that road because it was such a strong aesthetic, 530 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: and you did so many videos for the I mean, 531 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to date myself a little bit, but I 532 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: had a VHS com of all the and I was 533 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: just amazed at how many videos you did for this record, 534 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: given that it wasn't you know. I mean Janet Jackson 535 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: did a bunch of videos for Rhythm Nation, but she 536 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: was Janet Jackson. She was a massive pop star, and 537 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,839 Speaker 1: you were like, this was your first solo record, and 538 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: I can't wait just say we love those Janet. I 539 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: mean I would have. I would have had a video 540 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: for every one of them. Um that you know, that's 541 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: a pop masterpiece, right, Um. But know for you that 542 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,240 Speaker 1: was so ambitious, and I'm just thinking, like in every 543 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,839 Speaker 1: video really for little earthquakes, there there's a threat, there's 544 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: a there's a there's a common esthetic and it's it's 545 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 1: it's it's impressionistic. I get watercolors from it, and I 546 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,919 Speaker 1: get it it's willowy and it's and I see it's 547 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 1: I really see its influence now too. I don't know 548 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 1: if you've seen some of the videos for for Taylor 549 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: Swift's Folklore and evermore, but I get some such I 550 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: get old school Tory vibes from from the Willow video, 551 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: and I get it um um from the Cardigan video, 552 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: and I just love to see that. The long thread, 553 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: what I will tell you is about the team, because 554 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: we have to talk about the team and their genius. 555 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: Um So, Ali's Taylor head of marketing. It always when 556 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: you're developing these things, you you bring there. There's a 557 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: team behind the curtain that people don't talk about, but 558 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: they're very essential for work to be what it is 559 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: and to be original. I think that's what we're talking about. 560 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 1: Um So, at least Taylor brought in a photographer and 561 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 1: filmmaker named Cindy Palmano and Cindy Paulmano brought in a 562 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,839 Speaker 1: stylist by the name of Karen Binns, who I still 563 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,439 Speaker 1: work with. And for instance, she's working with whiz Kid 564 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: right now. And Karen Binns is probably well, she's one 565 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: of the amazing thinkers. You really should talk to her 566 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 1: one time about aesthetic because she will tell you she 567 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: sees everything. This is Karen who you were walking down 568 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: the street one day talking and this is how how 569 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: we're corny girl. And Karen and I have been working 570 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:51,760 Speaker 1: together since so um Cindy had introduced us. So therefore 571 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 1: you you have a mixture of of minds working together, 572 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: um making Silent these years video, uh, making the Winter video, 573 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: making the Crucify video, the China video, and and these 574 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: three brilliant women. Um, you know, they have to be 575 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: acknowledged and they need to be acknowledged because they were 576 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: doing this. So whatever has come happened in fifteen or 577 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,880 Speaker 1: eighteen or nineteen or whatever by wonderful artists, great artists, 578 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 1: it's still really important for me to to acknowledge that 579 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 1: these brilliant women were thinking like this in two and 580 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,720 Speaker 1: they should be acknowledged for that. It's I'm so happy 581 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,920 Speaker 1: to hear you you bring that up, because you know, 582 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 1: we fast forward to now and I'm curious to hear 583 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,840 Speaker 1: what you think about you know, women and the women 584 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: in rock. It's like, what is what is rock now? 585 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,240 Speaker 1: As far as you know mainstream music is concerned, there's 586 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,799 Speaker 1: the charts are now dominated by you know, popping and 587 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: hip hop, and there's some rock. But what do you 588 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: think of the current state of affairs with women in 589 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: the music industry? Do you think it has gotten easier harder? 590 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: Do you think there are new battles to fight? I 591 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 1: think the words easier and harder tricky words because because 592 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: I do UM, I don't want to dilute it down 593 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: to either one. There are challenges always to stand by 594 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: your art, and let's face it, there there are some 595 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,280 Speaker 1: artists that have a tougher trek up the mountain than others. 596 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: Some doors open for whatever reason. It might be the 597 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: people that they're working with. I'm not saying that they're 598 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: not great, but there are some are is out there 599 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: that I know of who who have really um sometimes 600 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: had to do serious battle. And then there are others 601 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: that um have you noticed what hasn't changed let's say 602 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:19,359 Speaker 1: what what has not changed is that if you get 603 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:24,319 Speaker 1: a first record and a second record that's received, then 604 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,799 Speaker 1: somebody's going to come carving for you, whether it's your 605 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,840 Speaker 1: third or your fourth or fifth. You know, if you 606 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 1: get to make that many. But there usually is a 607 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: takedown somewhere along the line from some camp. And it 608 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: it might not be the critics, It could be the public. 609 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,440 Speaker 1: It could be a mixture. It could be that the 610 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 1: work just doesn't resonate at the time. Um I went 611 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,359 Speaker 1: through that with a record called Boys for Pelee, where 612 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,359 Speaker 1: the critics really really dragged me through the coals on that. 613 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 1: But it was the public. It was the public. And 614 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: Neil Gaiman said to me, the great writer at the time, 615 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,280 Speaker 1: he said, look, okay, you go from town to town, 616 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,840 Speaker 1: you go town to town. Now this is before the 617 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: internet was really happening, and he said so and that's 618 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 1: changed now with social media, as we know, people can 619 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,840 Speaker 1: go with TikTok, you can go to the masses and 620 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 1: things can happen really really fast. But at that time 621 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: I had to go. I circled the Midwest so many 622 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 1: times preaching the gospel of Pelee. This album, the third, 623 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:45,040 Speaker 1: her third solo album. Yes, for people who aren't Tory. Sorry, sorry, 624 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 1: of course, of course no, no, that's why that's why 625 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,359 Speaker 1: I'm here. Yeah, but that was that I saw it 626 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: as my punk harpsichord and record. So when you talk 627 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 1: about um, you know, what is the how do you 628 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 1: define a genre? Ra and can you can something? You know, 629 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,640 Speaker 1: you can bring an audience to silence and a pen 630 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 1: drop with an acapella. And that's what's important when we're 631 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:19,799 Speaker 1: talking about power. I'm not interested in how loud something is. 632 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:25,280 Speaker 1: I'm interested in how it affects people, how it affects 633 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 1: the listener, Because just because somebody screaming their head off 634 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:34,399 Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're saying anything that's interesting, doesn't mean that 635 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 1: at all. So it's really important that we talk about um, 636 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,839 Speaker 1: you know, what is the intention of the work and 637 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: what is it trying to do? And so I think 638 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,719 Speaker 1: when you asked me about female artists today, of course 639 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,920 Speaker 1: they have challenges. We had challenges. Then what is true. 640 00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 1: What is absolutely a fact though, is that you have 641 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,919 Speaker 1: a big microphone that can get direct to the fans, 642 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: so that it's it's more difficult for somebody to gaslights 643 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,960 Speaker 1: somebody or goes somebody. That's how this happened a lot 644 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 1: adjacent in the nineties where you don't have to sell 645 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 1: an artist to another label. If you've signed seven records 646 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,359 Speaker 1: with an option on an eight album, that's sixteen years 647 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 1: of your life. And that's if you're really prolific and fast. 648 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,680 Speaker 1: So in sixteen, you know, sixteen years or even twenty years, 649 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,360 Speaker 1: that's a lot of records. That's a lot of time. 650 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 1: And what's some what a label can do is make 651 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:45,439 Speaker 1: sure your value on the street plummets. So if there 652 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,399 Speaker 1: is some kind of what do you call it persecution 653 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,799 Speaker 1: going on, or if there's some kind of punishment situation, 654 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,279 Speaker 1: because it's who do you think you are as an 655 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:59,240 Speaker 1: artist standing up to a great CEO, And this happened 656 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 1: um mentioning no names, but people would be shelved, so 657 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,400 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be sold and and um their their record 658 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: would just be shelved. And unless they had a really 659 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,000 Speaker 1: good attorney, really good lawyer, which costs a lot of 660 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:21,520 Speaker 1: money to move that, then that's just a tragic story 661 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,320 Speaker 1: that would happen. But now with social media, an artist 662 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:30,040 Speaker 1: has the ability to share with the public because the public, 663 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: I don't think knows what happens behind the curtain. They 664 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,440 Speaker 1: certainly didn't know in the nineties, and everyone's coming out 665 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:41,360 Speaker 1: now people are talking about assault. Performers are talking about assault, 666 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,600 Speaker 1: people are talking about I'm gonna reference Tellershift again. She's like, 667 00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:47,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to put out the album I wanted to 668 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,440 Speaker 1: put out. You tried to take my masters, and I'm 669 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,879 Speaker 1: going to put out now that's one. That is one 670 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,880 Speaker 1: huge And for someone that big to do that, you 671 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,600 Speaker 1: have to respect someone you know for doing that, and 672 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,240 Speaker 1: and and and I think, and the work it takes, 673 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,200 Speaker 1: the work, it takes it work re record two to 674 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,920 Speaker 1: try and because to revisit I mean, the idea of 675 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: revisiting you know, all my albums, my god, that takes 676 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,160 Speaker 1: superhuman strength. So kudos started her. I think it's it's 677 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,759 Speaker 1: such a she deserves respect what the capital are. Absolutely, 678 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,440 Speaker 1: I don't think you should do that because you have 679 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 1: very long records, so I think you would take a 680 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,920 Speaker 1: very long time to go back to sixteen records, some 681 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 1: of which are like twenty tracks. I have one, I 682 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 1: have another one. One final question because nearly thirty years 683 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:46,240 Speaker 1: after Little Earthquakes came out, this was your piano rock album. 684 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,000 Speaker 1: Everybody everybody won. My opinion, I think that you won. 685 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 1: They won the fans certainly. One I'm thinking the best 686 00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:02,239 Speaker 1: selling record of the year has been Adele, which is 687 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,759 Speaker 1: female singer songwriter, primarily with the piano. She's ad some 688 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:09,279 Speaker 1: like you said some what was it? What was the 689 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,120 Speaker 1: thing you said earlier? Some some sweetener some sonic sweetener, right, 690 00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: and taking some more risk with this record as you 691 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 1: started to do as you you know, three or four 692 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,359 Speaker 1: records and you're like, I'm gonna play with electronica now 693 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,560 Speaker 1: right by your girl? And what is do you think 694 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,640 Speaker 1: you're hearing that news that the best selling record of 695 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,719 Speaker 1: the year and the UK as well, it's encouraged, like 696 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:33,600 Speaker 1: do you feel like the piano is getting the last laugh? Well, 697 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: I think what it's saying is that people are moved 698 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,239 Speaker 1: by what she's putting out, by what she's saying, by 699 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:49,200 Speaker 1: her intention, by her music. And because people are moved there, 700 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:56,239 Speaker 1: they're showing that the piano is loved, and boy is 701 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,839 Speaker 1: she loved? And boy or you loved? Well, thank you 702 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,160 Speaker 1: And if you could, if you could say to someone 703 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:06,600 Speaker 1: who had not has not listened to Little Earthquakes yat 704 00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:13,160 Speaker 1: which again criminal uh, well going into this record telling 705 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,279 Speaker 1: this person what to expect and what you think it's 706 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:21,759 Speaker 1: legacy is what would you say, Tori? Well, I I 707 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:26,040 Speaker 1: guess the point of Little Earthquakes is encouraging people to 708 00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:31,200 Speaker 1: be their own person. And sometimes you don't know exactly 709 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,920 Speaker 1: who you are, and that's okay, you know, the given 710 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:40,640 Speaker 1: that everybody knows who they are, some people do. Some 711 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,880 Speaker 1: people have tapped into that and accepted that. But some 712 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:49,880 Speaker 1: of us had to try different pieces on pieces of ourselves, 713 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,040 Speaker 1: and then you make this mosaic. You take the pieces 714 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,680 Speaker 1: and then you find the whole. Sometimes some of us 715 00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,719 Speaker 1: are bits of stained glass, right that that then make 716 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,759 Speaker 1: a different picture once you stand back from it. Not 717 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:07,920 Speaker 1: everybody is a solid, you know, walking piece of art. 718 00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,279 Speaker 1: Some of us came in pieces and that's okay, And 719 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,960 Speaker 1: that's what I think Little Earthquakes helped me to find. 720 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,239 Speaker 1: Where Were You In ninety two was a production of 721 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,759 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. The executive producers are Noel Brown and 722 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,480 Speaker 1: Jordan run Tug. The show was researched, written and hosted 723 00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,680 Speaker 1: by me Jason Lafier, with editing and sound design by 724 00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:01,759 Speaker 1: Michael Alder. June. If like what you heard, please subscribe 725 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,319 Speaker 1: and leave us a review. For more podcasts from my 726 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,840 Speaker 1: heart Radio, check out the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 727 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:12,120 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H