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Speaker 2: let's start with Chase of the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain.
Speaker 3: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
Speaker 3: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions
Speaker 3: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast
Speaker 3: to Coast, am employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors
Speaker 3: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do
Speaker 3: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi,
Speaker 3: I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been
Speaker 3: on a journey to prove the existence of life after death.
Speaker 3: On each episode, discuss the reasons we now know that
Speaker 3: our loved ones have survived physical debt and so will we.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. It is with sadness
Speaker 3: today that I report that psychiatrist doctor Peter Fenwick has
Speaker 3: recently moved into the world of spirit and today I
Speaker 3: want to dedicate this episode to him. Doctor Fenwick passed
Speaker 3: peacefully in his home at the age of eighty nine,
Speaker 3: surrounded by his family. He was a British neuropsychiatrist, neurophysiologist,
Speaker 3: and parapsychologist who studied near death experiences and was convinced
Speaker 3: that our consciousness is freed after death. His interest in
Speaker 3: near death experiences was piqued when he read doctor Raymond
Speaker 3: Moody's book Life After Life. He was initially skeptical of
Speaker 3: Moody's evidence, but he reassessed his opinion about these experiences
Speaker 3: after one of his own patients described a near death
Speaker 3: experience very similar to that of doctor Moody's work. After that,
Speaker 3: he collected and analyzed over three hundred and fifty examples
Speaker 3: of near death experiences. Doctor Fenwick has had a long
Speaker 3: standing interest in brain function and the problem of consciousness
Speaker 3: in where it is located, and has published a large
Speaker 3: number of research papers related to altered states of consciousness,
Speaker 3: abnormalities of consciousness and behavior, MDes, and end of life experiences,
Speaker 3: some of which you'll hear on this episode today. In
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy seven, doctor Fenwick joined the Scientific and Medical
Speaker 3: Network became president of it in two thousand and one
Speaker 3: and President emeritus in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: This is an.
Speaker 3: Organization that, for over fifty years, connects spirituality through science
Speaker 3: and education. You can find out more about them at
Speaker 3: Scientific and Medical dot net. Doctor Fenwick and his wife
Speaker 3: Elizabeth gave so much of themselves to this network, and
Speaker 3: they wrote several books, including the Art of Dying, The
Speaker 3: Truth in the Light, which is an investigation of over
Speaker 3: three hundred near death experiences, shining light on transcendence, The
Speaker 3: Unconventional Journey of a Neuroscientist, and The Hidden Door Understanding
Speaker 3: and Controlling Dreams. Today, I want to present to you
Speaker 3: part of a lecture that doctor Fenwick gave to a
Speaker 3: group of psychiatrists on the topic of experiences surrounding near
Speaker 3: death and dying. I found this talk fascinating and I
Speaker 3: believe you'll enjoy it too. And we hear at Shades
Speaker 3: of the Afterlife. Well, we're going to do our part
Speaker 3: to make sure doctor Peter Fenwick's work stay relevant and
Speaker 3: gets to the most amount of people. Doctor Fenwick was
Speaker 3: not afraid to die, and today you'll find out why.
Speaker 3: Meet doctor Peter Fenwick.
Speaker 1: What I'd like to do today is to talk about
Speaker 1: near death experiences and approaching death experiences. And the reason
Speaker 1: for that is that I became interested in the near
Speaker 1: death experience when I had a patient who had it,
Speaker 1: and what I needed to do is to try and
Speaker 1: understand them if I could. It seems to me that
Speaker 1: the models which we have are really not good enough.
Speaker 1: On materialistic models aren't because they always ended the brain.
Speaker 1: What was part clearly happening was that this was not
Speaker 1: ending at the brain. So I thought that what I
Speaker 1: needed to do is to look further into other models,
Speaker 1: which we could aide if you like, with the sand
Speaker 1: mechanical model. So today we'll set out the problems. I'm
Speaker 1: going to look at cardiac arrest, NDEs, end of life experience,
Speaker 1: and I'll occasionally drop the word ELI and that end
Speaker 1: of life experience, contribution of these to models of our
Speaker 1: understanding of consciousness and some sort of conclusion I hope,
Speaker 1: and for this talk, mind equals consciousness, because I'm not
Speaker 1: going to get into the debate. So that's the position
Speaker 1: I'm coming from. Okay, the problem, really it can be said.
Speaker 1: It's quite simply the sound in paradigm states that brain
Speaker 1: processes and only brain processes are responsible for the generation
Speaker 1: experience of consciousness. The transmission theory, our constructs of the
Speaker 1: world are in part the transmission of the absolute nature
Speaker 1: of reality and part brain processes. So there's the two
Speaker 1: sides that I'm going to look at. Now. If you're
Speaker 1: going to ask the question what is the relationship between
Speaker 1: brain and mind? Then I have worked the whole time
Speaker 1: with the cats can fMRIs, magneto and cephilography EEG. And
Speaker 1: there's no consciousnessness there. There are magnetic fields, they're electrical fields.
Speaker 1: There is the transmission of information, but there's no consciousness.
Speaker 1: So that's not going to help me. So I think
Speaker 1: you've got to look for art lives. And are there
Speaker 1: situations where mind and brain are not the same. Yes,
Speaker 1: when there is no brain function but experiences reported e g.
Speaker 1: Cardiac arrest NDEs and these thus represent non brain experience,
Speaker 1: and I'll support the later. And are there any other artlowers? Yes?
Speaker 1: Are the situations when consciousness starts to loosen from the
Speaker 1: brain and finally separates and disintegrates. Well, yes, during the
Speaker 1: process of death. So subjective experiences of the dying should
Speaker 1: show similarities to that of the nd So if there
Speaker 1: is a transcendent reality. We'll see it in the nd
Speaker 1: we'll pick it up as people slowly attenuate their normal
Speaker 1: structures consciousness. So let's look at near death experiences. These
Speaker 1: are very familiar to you all, so I'm not going
Speaker 1: to go into it. This is just a summary of
Speaker 1: NDE paypos by Rousseau, and it's a nice summary. What
Speaker 1: I want to draw your attention to is this when
Speaker 1: it's being dead is one and out body experiences is another.
Speaker 1: You see they color up nicely and bright light. I
Speaker 1: want to draw your attention to. That's seventy two percent.
Speaker 3: I want to jump in on this part. Doctor Fenwick
Speaker 3: posted a chart that were common features of a near
Speaker 3: death experience. I'll read those to you now, and then
Speaker 3: we'll get back to his words. First of all, he
Speaker 3: says the overall incidence of them is about four percent.
Speaker 3: Of people who have cardiac arrests, seventy seven percent of
Speaker 3: them feel calmness, thirty eight percent feel joy, ninety percent
Speaker 3: feel an absence of bodily sensation, ninety two percent are
Speaker 3: aware of being dead. Fifty eight percent have an out
Speaker 3: of body experience in a new material plane. Thirty five
Speaker 3: percent have out of body experiences or vertical experiences. These
Speaker 3: are the ones that they float above their body and
Speaker 3: can see people working on them in the operating room.
Speaker 3: Thirty four percent have vivid sensory experiences. Thirty one percent
Speaker 3: experience esp or telepathy, thirty nine percent feel a dark space,
Speaker 3: then a bright tunnel, Seventy two percent experience the bright light,
Speaker 3: twenty four percent beautiful music, forty three percent experience a
Speaker 3: being of light or a guide and deep knowledge and
Speaker 3: wisdom and love. Thirty eight percent experience another realm, which
Speaker 3: may be a beautiful country guard, and forty one percent
Speaker 3: experience their dead relatives and friends and other spiritual beings.
Speaker 3: Eighteen percent have a panoramic life review.
Speaker 1: Let's continue, Okay, the being of light, I want to
Speaker 1: light up knowledge and wisdom and love, and then the
Speaker 1: other realms are enormously important, So being of light and
Speaker 1: light and the other realms or the fantastic gardens, et cetera.
Speaker 1: In our culture and a lot in others. Of the
Speaker 1: near death experience, and this one is terribly important. You
Speaker 1: can't actually see it if I can read it to you,
Speaker 1: and that is dead relatives and French and spiritual beings
Speaker 1: who appear in forty one percent of NDEs. So let's
Speaker 1: look at cardiac arrest NDEs. When we got over two
Speaker 1: thousand letters from our first film on NDEs, and what
Speaker 1: became quite apparent to me was that if you want
Speaker 1: to ask serious questions about the end in terms of
Speaker 1: its own provenance, what generates it, you can't use an
Speaker 1: ordinary nd because you don't know what the brain state is.
Speaker 1: There's one thing where you do know the brain state,
Speaker 1: and that is during cardiac arrest NDEs. If they came
Speaker 1: during the cardiac arrest, well, the incidents during cardiac arrests
Speaker 1: varies from about ten to twenty percent. But the main
Speaker 1: thing that I want to say is that the phenomena
Speaker 1: of the arrest endes are the same as the phenomena
Speaker 1: of the non arrest NDEs, which is interesting. So I
Speaker 1: can argue from the arrest NDEs to the non arrest endes,
Speaker 1: and also that the depth of them varies according to
Speaker 1: the closeness to death. This is evidence the non local
Speaker 1: functioning of mind during a cardiac arrest. The outer body
Speaker 1: experience is ridical remote viewing bright light, which is transcendental
Speaker 1: experience of other realms and relatives, friends and spiritual beings,
Speaker 1: So keep those categories in mind, out of body, remote viewing,
Speaker 1: bright light, experience of other realms, and transcendence. And this
Speaker 1: is the standard thing that you walking along, your heart stops,
Speaker 1: your consciousness goes down, it restarts, and you have a
Speaker 1: confusional arousal, and the NDE is thought to occur at
Speaker 1: that time little bit of neurology for you. When the
Speaker 1: heart stops, the brain stem goes down, so you have
Speaker 1: no heartbeat controlled from the brainstem, no respiration controlled from
Speaker 1: the brain stem, and you have no consciousness also controlled
Speaker 1: from the brain stem. So in fact, the brain is dead.
Speaker 1: Now people who don't really understand brain functional saying this
Speaker 1: is just a little bit of brain functioning rubbish. Either
Speaker 1: isn't to be. If there is, it's not going to
Speaker 1: support consciousness, and it's not going to support clear consciousness
Speaker 1: of the sort that occurs in the nd because you see,
Speaker 1: there has to be the whole of this sort of
Speaker 1: mechanism which is initiated from the brain stem, which keeps
Speaker 1: the cortex working, and it's not there because the brain
Speaker 1: stem is done. So cardiac arrest and electrical silence indicate
Speaker 1: that the brain stem and cortex are inactive, so you
Speaker 1: can't go along any of those lines. So then what
Speaker 1: is the evidence that during that phase you can intact
Speaker 1: experience things. They are over a hundred anecdote with ridical
Speaker 1: OBE cases and those during cardiac arrests and the subject
Speaker 1: leaves his body and sees the resuscitation, usually from above.
Speaker 1: If you're going to test the ritical nature of the ND,
Speaker 1: you want a cardiac arrest and an OBE group, an
Speaker 1: out of body experience group.
Speaker 3: We have to take a quick break, but you're going
Speaker 3: to love where we're going next. You're listening to Shades
Speaker 3: of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
Speaker 3: AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife.
Speaker 3: I'm Sandra Champlain and you're listening to the great doctor
Speaker 3: Peter Fenwick. And as we continue in this episode, you'll
Speaker 3: hear more about near death experiences and those extraordinary experiences
Speaker 3: that many people have seeing loved ones, etc. Just before
Speaker 3: we pass, just to recap what he said before we
Speaker 3: took the break, basically is that consciousness, if it solely
Speaker 3: lives in the brain, cannot exist when the heart stops
Speaker 3: and our brain stem goes down. In that case, he says,
Speaker 3: the brain is dead. It is in these moments that
Speaker 3: the extraordinary out of body and near death experience occurs.
Speaker 3: So let's continue.
Speaker 1: There are over one hundred anecdote with ridical OBE cases
Speaker 1: and those during cardiac arrests and the subject leaves his
Speaker 1: body and sees the resuscitation, usually from above. If you're
Speaker 1: going to test the ritical nature of the nd you
Speaker 1: want a cardiac arrest and an OBE group, an out
Speaker 1: of body experience group you could use as a control
Speaker 1: for that. Cardiac arrests and no other body experiences, because
Speaker 1: people are going to say, if you ask them after
Speaker 1: the arrest what happened during it, We've all seen television
Speaker 1: programs and so on. So he says, well, of course
Speaker 1: they know. Well. In fact, Penny Sartori, who did her
Speaker 1: PhD on NDEs, guided them up into those who said
Speaker 1: they could see what was happening and those who said
Speaker 1: they couldn't, and then looked at their accounts, and the
Speaker 1: accounts of the people who said they could see what
Speaker 1: was happening much more accurate than those who couldn't. So
Speaker 1: it's just another piece of information. Okay, So what we're
Speaker 1: dealing with this fifty year old man not healing well.
Speaker 1: Going to hospital. They see that he's got a cardiac problem,
Speaker 1: taking up the cardiac cathlab. So this guy's in the
Speaker 1: cath lab and he goes into ventri kilar fibrillation. His
Speaker 1: heart obviously has stopped. He's unconscious, so he's unconscious on
Speaker 1: the table. Everybody sees it. The next thing that happens
Speaker 1: is he says he leaves his body. Okay. They put
Speaker 1: on something which is called an aed an Automatic external defibrillator,
Speaker 1: and this has a protocol with it, so you put
Speaker 1: the electrodes on and it measures the heart and sees
Speaker 1: whether it's in normalism or not. If it's not in
Speaker 1: normal rhythm, it will advise a shark. So that's what happened.
Speaker 1: So they give him a shark and there's no response.
Speaker 1: In other words, he remains in ventriction fibrillation, deeply unconscious,
Speaker 1: and they have to do a full round of CPR.
Speaker 1: Other words, they have to pummel his chest, et cetera.
Speaker 1: That goes on for three or four minutes. This guy's
Speaker 1: unconscious there and then they put it on again and
Speaker 1: the machine says advise sharks. So he's still in ventrically
Speaker 1: fibrillations throughout this time, and then his heart starts, so
Speaker 1: we've got a clear, clear period of unconsciousness, no cardiac output.
Speaker 1: It's absolutely solid, and he's unconscious. There's no little bit
Speaker 1: of consciousness there. The guys out and we know that
Speaker 1: he's unconscious from three to five minutes. But he was
Speaker 1: aware during this time. He saw himself leave his body
Speaker 1: at the beginning, went up into a corner of the room,
Speaker 1: looked back. There was a woman he saw, who he
Speaker 1: then later classified as an angel, who said to him
Speaker 1: when he was lying on the bed, come up, come up,
Speaker 1: and he thought that'd be ridiculous. Next thing he knew
Speaker 1: he was up there, and then he looked back and
Speaker 1: he had both that and sol the resuscitation process. So
Speaker 1: he has clear consciousness during the time of his arrest,
Speaker 1: which is monitored. I mean, it's about the best case
Speaker 1: you can get. The guy's aye, but he's unconscious, he's
Speaker 1: got no consciousness, so it's a really nice solid case.
Speaker 1: This case suggests that he was dead to the medical team.
Speaker 1: The patient claims to be conscious, so brain and mind
Speaker 1: are separated during ventricular fibrillation. So that's really quite a
Speaker 1: powerful statement to be able to make okay, so we
Speaker 1: can talk about now. Happily, the brain and mind are
Speaker 1: separated during the nd so what about the mental states
Speaker 1: the dying? Can we gain information as the brain fail?
Speaker 1: I got this nice quotes from Stafford Bessie because it
Speaker 1: is really good in terms of just setting the feelings
Speaker 1: for it. Whether dying persons are telling us of glimpses
Speaker 1: of the next world or conversing with people we can't see,
Speaker 1: we should consider ourselves immensely blessed when it happens. If
Speaker 1: we don't make the mistake of assuming get confused, we're
Speaker 1: likely to feel some of the excitement they convey for
Speaker 1: your witnessing the momentary merging of two worlds that at
Speaker 1: all other times remain tightly compartmentalized and mutually inaccessible. The
Speaker 1: merging is what I mean by the spirituality of death.
Speaker 1: So I want you to get this feeling of two
Speaker 1: worlds slowly starting to merge as the dying process continues.
Speaker 1: Let's look at the death process. What is it? How
Speaker 1: does it occur? There are lessons for you guys here.
Speaker 1: All of you must die, So we're going to look
Speaker 1: at the dissolution of consciousness. We have done a lot
Speaker 1: of work on this retrospective studies. Prospective studies. We've done
Speaker 1: it in England and in Holland. We've got over fifteen
Speaker 1: hundred emails of stories and so we've interviewed doctors, nurses,
Speaker 1: auxiliary staff, chaplin, volunteers, et cetera, et cetera. So it
Speaker 1: built up a lot of information about the dying process.
Speaker 1: We gave every a questionnaire looking at deathbed visions, deathbed coincidence,
Speaker 1: light surrounding the body, shape, scene, leaving the body, transiting
Speaker 1: to new reality and so on. So that's our database
Speaker 1: and these are the conclusions really. So first of all,
Speaker 1: when we went into this, this just about two thousand
Speaker 1: and four, and we couldn't say that they actually occurred
Speaker 1: because there wasn't a consensus in the literature. So we
Speaker 1: started from the grants then that they may not occur.
Speaker 1: And if they did occur, what were they like or
Speaker 1: were they just simply fantasis of the dying nan The
Speaker 1: present consensus is that over fifty percent of those dying
Speaker 1: consciously will have end of life experiences. So please all
Speaker 1: of you die consciously, then you get the fireworks and
Speaker 1: if you see somebody coming up to you with a
Speaker 1: syringe full of madesil Lamb saying have this because you're
Speaker 1: obviously in distress. Say no, no, no, no, no, no
Speaker 1: no no. I want to watch this whole process, and
Speaker 1: it's very important. Otherwise you won't get some of the
Speaker 1: things we're talking about. So this is the formulation of
Speaker 1: the dying process. And the life experiences may start with
Speaker 1: premonitions of own death or another's death. The reason I
Speaker 1: say that is from the results of our studies and
Speaker 1: emails which are sent in. So premonitions are right at
Speaker 1: the beginning. There the dial Alama says two years before
Speaker 1: you may get information about death. I assume that's corrected
Speaker 1: in this book. And if you look at the stories,
Speaker 1: they're not usually that long, and the stories sometimes relate
Speaker 1: to promontory visit by dead relatives. So dead relatives come.
Speaker 1: I want you just to think about this. My mother
Speaker 1: was in the hospital after a fam that fractures her ribs.
Speaker 1: One day she saw my dead brother at the door
Speaker 1: of her room. She said it made her very happy
Speaker 1: to see him. So it's really interesting. There's a changing
Speaker 1: consciousness that these things have a different meaning to the
Speaker 1: person who receives the vision. I joked that he had
Speaker 1: come to take her on to the next world, and
Speaker 1: we laughed about it, and two weeks later she died unexpectedly.
Speaker 1: So there's a promontory visit. This one is a very
Speaker 1: sad one. The mother learns about the fact that her
Speaker 1: child is going to die. My third daughter, Roberta, was
Speaker 1: just seventy years old on May the seventeenth, nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 1: when I woke up in the morning totally upset and
Speaker 1: in mourning over her death. I was so surprised and
Speaker 1: confused to see her lying next to me that I
Speaker 1: actually gently nudged her to see if she was alive.
Speaker 1: So this was a really powerful experience. She apparently had
Speaker 1: gotten up during the night and climbed in next to me.
Speaker 1: When she moved, I cried uncontrollably with relief that she
Speaker 1: was not dead and hugged her. She did not seem
Speaker 1: to mind or make any fasts. Perhaps she knew why
Speaker 1: I felt relief. I did not tell her I thought
Speaker 1: she was dead. Could not remember any dream, so it's
Speaker 1: not a dream. But the feelings were so strong and real,
Speaker 1: exactly as they were two days later, when she was
Speaker 1: the victim of a hit and run accident, so very
Speaker 1: clear premonition of what was going to occur. So this
Speaker 1: can be the start of the dead process. I say
Speaker 1: can be because not everybody has has it. The next
Speaker 1: stage our deathbed visions. This is some of our data
Speaker 1: really just to show you how common these are in
Speaker 1: the retrospective studies between sixteen seventy percent and the prospect
Speaker 1: his studies it's about sixty percent approximately, So they're common
Speaker 1: much than people are prepared to say. In fact, there's
Speaker 1: a split medical people say it doesn't happen the nurse
Speaker 1: who say it that the nurses of the patients, they
Speaker 1: hear the stories. So who do the dying see? Now,
Speaker 1: keep in mind that we're thinking about near death experiences
Speaker 1: the same time, the parents are the most common. Persons
Speaker 1: unknown or the next ones generally defined as spiritual beings.
Speaker 1: A lot of people can't speak at that point, but
Speaker 1: you can greet somebody joyfully, houses and siblings, but the
Speaker 1: same in our sample, we see very few angels. Pity
Speaker 1: and liked an angel. Well maybe I'll get an angel,
Speaker 1: like don't they sometimes your NDC friends? And we only
Speaker 1: have two examples of dogs and cats. Really sorry about
Speaker 1: the dog and cat lovers mainly going to be humans
Speaker 1: who come to see you. So compared to NDEs, dead roads,
Speaker 1: his friends' spiritual beings appearing forty one percent of those
Speaker 1: so very similar transiting to a new realm. This is
Speaker 1: the next phase. This is enormously interesting. The work in
Speaker 1: Zeric on this is really important. They've just brought out
Speaker 1: a paper which shows that these are people who are
Speaker 1: dying of cancer in the last fortnight of their life.
Speaker 1: Over fifty percent in fact, transit to the new realm. Well,
Speaker 1: you know what it's going to be, light, don't you?
Speaker 1: An area very like that the nd beautiful region where
Speaker 1: they meet other people, spiritual beings there to help them,
Speaker 1: dead relatives. Some describe it as a waiting place. So
Speaker 1: we now have a match between the experience of the
Speaker 1: NDEs and as consciousness slowly slowly disappears, because it's only
Speaker 1: in the last few weeks before death, then you go
Speaker 1: into this other realm, you come back, go into the
Speaker 1: other realm, come back again, etc. Suddenly she seemed to
Speaker 1: stare intently at the window. She turned to me and said, please, Pauline,
Speaker 1: don't ever be afraid of dying. I've seen a beautiful
Speaker 1: light and I was going towards it. I wanted to
Speaker 1: go into that light. It was so peaceful. I really
Speaker 1: had to fight to come back. Sadly, she died the
Speaker 1: next morning. I knew she had seen something that day
Speaker 1: which gave her comfort and peace when she knew she'd
Speaker 1: only have to live. So again, a very good match
Speaker 1: between the ND.
Speaker 3: I never get sick of hearing stories of what people
Speaker 3: see just before they pass. No one dies alone. It's
Speaker 3: time for our next break and we'll be right back.
Speaker 3: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio
Speaker 3: and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back
Speaker 3: to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain, and you're
Speaker 3: listening to the words of the late doctor Peter Fenwick,
Speaker 3: who just passed into the spirit world this month at
Speaker 3: the age of eighty nine. From all the interviews I've heard,
Speaker 3: he was not afraid to die. In fact, he was
Speaker 3: a proponent that we all die consciously so we can experience,
Speaker 3: as he said, the fireworks. Let's continue with more stories
Speaker 3: from the deathbed and his views on consciousness living outside
Speaker 3: of the brain.
Speaker 1: Suddenly, she seemed to stare intently at the window. She
Speaker 1: turned to me and said, please, Pauline, don't ever be
Speaker 1: afraid of dying. I've seen a beautiful light and I
Speaker 1: was going towards it. I wanted to go into that light.
Speaker 1: It was so peaceful. I really had to fight to
Speaker 1: come back. Sadly, she died the next morning. I knew
Speaker 1: she'd seen something that day which gave her comfort and
Speaker 1: peace when she knew she'd only have to live. So again,
Speaker 1: a very good match between the nd. There's the data
Speaker 1: the English prospective from the Dutch prospective running at about
Speaker 1: fifty percent of the carers had seen these experiences, so
Speaker 1: compared to the end where it's thirty eight percent of
Speaker 1: people have these experiences. Now the next thing is then
Speaker 1: you come up to death itself. Now, death is absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 1: It's not just a turning off. There are a whole
Speaker 1: set of phenomena which you occur, mainly non local. The
Speaker 1: first st one is radiant light in the room of
Speaker 1: the dying light which is everywhere in the room. It
Speaker 1: can be specifically things, it can be spiritual globules of
Speaker 1: light which have seen in the room at that time.
Speaker 1: And of course the light with the dying is very
Speaker 1: like the light the nd deep knowledge, wisdom and love.
Speaker 1: If you are in it, that wisdom and love and
Speaker 1: knowledge can transform the person who's dying. And you talk
Speaker 1: about transformation and transcendence. Here a couple of light stories.
Speaker 1: I took them because they're nice and ple ones. This
Speaker 1: is a chaplain. Sometimes I've seen the light which is
Speaker 1: in a corner like candlelight. It's a golden light. It's
Speaker 1: not electric light, and it's not one of the hospice
Speaker 1: lights just appears, sometimes goes when they die, they take
Speaker 1: their last breaths, everything settles down, the light goes out.
Speaker 1: Another one when her mother was dying, this amazing light
Speaker 1: appeared in the room. The whole room was filled with
Speaker 1: this amazing light, and her mother died. So there is
Speaker 1: this phenomena of light which is part of dying. Now,
Speaker 1: I want to go onto the other thing, which happens
Speaker 1: at the time of death, and the evidence points to
Speaker 1: it all being within a few moments of death, because
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of accounts with times, and that
Speaker 1: is deathbed coincidences, and they occur like this. You're in
Speaker 1: Florida and you have a son who's in the UK,
Speaker 1: and you pick up the fact that he's dying and
Speaker 1: there's a connection between the two of you. So what
Speaker 1: is this connection and how does it work? Well, it's fascinating.
Speaker 1: First of all, they're very common. That's sixty percent of
Speaker 1: carers had heard stories about it. In all the emails
Speaker 1: we've got, a large proportion were devoted to deathbed coincidences.
Speaker 1: From that, we can say a number of things. First
Speaker 1: of all, they're driven by the person who's dying. They
Speaker 1: select who it's going to be. How do we know
Speaker 1: that If you have a broken couple, for example, where
Speaker 1: the man goes off somewhere and the woman doesn't care
Speaker 1: that he's gone, but he in fact still devoted to
Speaker 1: his wife and he dies, he will visit the wife,
Speaker 1: so it's driven by him. It's those people with strong
Speaker 1: emotional attachments. We've got a number of stories of people
Speaker 1: who said, my son wasn't there, that's why she came
Speaker 1: to visit me when his mother died. So the deathbak
Speaker 1: coincitances are fascinating. The form the visit takes depends on
Speaker 1: the mental state of the person who's receiving the visit.
Speaker 1: If they're awake, it's a feeling, it's a compulsion that
Speaker 1: something has happened to this person. You have to garn
Speaker 1: ring them up, you have to find out what's happened.
Speaker 1: If they're asleep, it's quite different. It's narrative dream in
Speaker 1: which the dying come and they do two things. They
Speaker 1: first of all, come to be with the person. Then
Speaker 1: they give them a message. The messages I'm okay, don't worry.
Speaker 1: And quite often the dream ends with them going into
Speaker 1: the light. So again similar sorts of things to the NDE.
Speaker 1: Now this is also a time of huge parapsychological activity.
Speaker 1: We've talked about the light, We've talked about the visits
Speaker 1: of the distance. But you get connections with clocks. We've
Speaker 1: got many clock stopping stories. Do you all know My
Speaker 1: grandfather's clock stopped dead, never to go again when the
Speaker 1: old man died. And here's a nice story, because is
Speaker 1: it only mechanical clocks? They are the only ones that stopped?
Speaker 1: What about electric clocks? So I got you this story.
Speaker 1: My father died at three point fifteen am. At about
Speaker 1: eight thirty am, I went to tell my uncle Archie,
Speaker 1: who had been close to Dad. Noe. The emotional relationship
Speaker 1: is always an emotional relationship. His uncle Archie opened the door.
Speaker 1: It was clear he was distressed, and as I began
Speaker 1: to tell him, he interrupted me and said he already knew.
Speaker 1: He said no one had telephoned him. So it's a
Speaker 1: bit of a deathbed coincidence here too. But told me
Speaker 1: to look at the clock on the mantelpiece that was
Speaker 1: stopped at three fifteen, as was indeed his own wrist,
Speaker 1: rocher's bedside clock, and all other clocks in the house.
Speaker 1: Was even an led display on the flashing three point fifteen.
Speaker 1: It's really good. So electronic clock stopped too. It's completely
Speaker 1: taken aback. But Artie seemed comfortable with the phenomenon, was
Speaker 1: just concerned losing someone close to him. So we got
Speaker 1: lots and lots of clock stories. Got also a lot
Speaker 1: of animal stories, dogs which howl in different places and
Speaker 1: so on. So what I want you to think of
Speaker 1: it as is, dying is not just a simple turning off.
Speaker 1: There are all these parapsychological effects which occur at the
Speaker 1: end of life. And don't forget that we are, in
Speaker 1: fact in the transition to this other realm Okay, so
Speaker 1: what's the meaning? The cares are very clear, They're all
Speaker 1: trons personal I just put into John Eccles. I mean
Speaker 1: he has to be aired, doesn't he, because of his
Speaker 1: dualistic stance. He puts it nicely. I maintained that the
Speaker 1: human mystery is incredibly demeaned by scientific reductionism, with its
Speaker 1: claims in promissory materialism to account eventually for all spiritual
Speaker 1: world in terms of the pattern of neuronal activity. I mean,
Speaker 1: it clearly has to be wrong. This belief must be
Speaker 1: classed with a superstition. I rather like that, But this
Speaker 1: one I take much more seriously. Do you all know? Penfield,
Speaker 1: the neurosurgeon in Canada, spent his life with electrodes in
Speaker 1: the brain, taking out various bits of people's brain. This
Speaker 1: is his book, The Mystery of the Mind myself after
Speaker 1: professional lifetime spent in trying to discover how the brain
Speaker 1: accounts to the mind. It comes as a surprise now
Speaker 1: to discover, during this final examination of the evidence, that
Speaker 1: the dualist hypothesis separation of mind and brain seems the
Speaker 1: more reasonable of the two possible explanations. Now, he's coming
Speaker 1: from a very wide base of cerebral function. Mind comes
Speaker 1: into action and goes out of action with the highest
Speaker 1: brain mechanisms. It's true, but the mind has energy. The
Speaker 1: form of that energy is different from that of neurinal
Speaker 1: potentials of travel the external pathways. So he argues for
Speaker 1: mind and brain being separate. You've probably seen this new
Speaker 1: transmission theory by Lanza. He says that we carry space
Speaker 1: and time around with us like turtles with shells, meaning
Speaker 1: that when the shell comes off space and time, we
Speaker 1: still exist. It's a nice concept about the limitation of
Speaker 1: the body. The theory implies that death of consciousness simply
Speaker 1: does not exist. It only exists as a thought because
Speaker 1: people identify themselves with their body. And he is the
Speaker 1: guy who did a lot of the work on genetics,
Speaker 1: so he's got a very high scientific profile. So let's
Speaker 1: summarize everything using the death data. How can we conceive
Speaker 1: the world. What sort of pattern would it have? Well,
Speaker 1: this is the pattern of the dying process as I
Speaker 1: see it. Premonitions, deathbed visions. You can negotiate with your visions.
Speaker 1: Do remember that when your aunt comes to tell you,
Speaker 1: probably your mum actually comes to tell you that she's
Speaker 1: going to come back and pick you up, you can
Speaker 1: say not this week. You can't say because it's a
Speaker 1: great party in the hospice where you won't be taking
Speaker 1: part in this anyway, but you can say, because my
Speaker 1: son is coming, they wait for that. And we've got
Speaker 1: lovely accounts of negotiation with the deathbed visions. It brings
Speaker 1: hope and joy. Then you come to this new reality,
Speaker 1: total lucidity I haven't talked about, although that's fascinating. And
Speaker 1: then you come to actual death itself, deathbed coincidences, and
Speaker 1: then all these parapsychological things like clocks, animals, light bells,
Speaker 1: And this is a fascinating one. That's shape seen leaving
Speaker 1: the body. They're very clear when people see them. They're
Speaker 1: described as whist bike or smoke, and sometimes they're more
Speaker 1: solid and they come out usually from the top of
Speaker 1: the head, sometimes from the chest. We've had one or
Speaker 1: two that have come out of the feet. With them,
Speaker 1: there is a presence in the room as the shape
Speaker 1: is leaving. We're part of the five dimensional manifold. Why
Speaker 1: do I like that theory? Bernard Carr really likes this,
Speaker 1: the idea of the brain, which is the four dimensional
Speaker 1: world and the fifth dimension behind it, and he talks
Speaker 1: about Clusi cline and the fifth dimension. Why am I
Speaker 1: attracted to that. I'm attracted to it because of the
Speaker 1: idea of what people report when they're out of their
Speaker 1: bodies during a cardiac arrest. They can remotely view so
Speaker 1: space is contained. They can in fact see all round objects,
Speaker 1: they can see the bottom, they can see the top, etc.
Speaker 1: So again it suggests a different form of reality at
Speaker 1: that time. I quite like the idea of a fifth dimension.
Speaker 1: We've got to have something like that which will explain
Speaker 1: the data. Five dimensions will explain that's noo and and
Speaker 1: we find in dying. So you can, if you like,
Speaker 1: take the idea that you lose the limitation of the
Speaker 1: four dimensions and the fifth dimension is the one which
Speaker 1: comes to the four. David Lawton, who I do like
Speaker 1: he's worked a lot with near death experiences, argues for
Speaker 1: a five dimensional structure for NDEs and argues that death
Speaker 1: is simply the withdrawal of the four D part being
Speaker 1: the five D intact. So it's an interesting idea again.
Speaker 1: Or you can have consciousness part of a non local
Speaker 1: informational field, no space and no time. And person who
Speaker 1: likes that is Stephen Schwartz.
Speaker 3: We'll find out about Stephen Schwartz when we get back
Speaker 3: from the break. Some of what he says goes right
Speaker 3: over my head. We must remember he's speaking to a
Speaker 3: group of doctors who may have had a little bit
Speaker 3: more schooling than myself. So let's go to the break
Speaker 3: and we'll be back with more. Doctor Peter Fenwick, you're
Speaker 3: listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and
Speaker 3: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back to
Speaker 3: Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain and you're listening
Speaker 3: to the words of the late and great doctor Peter Fenwick.
Speaker 3: Just a reminder of some of his book titles. One
Speaker 3: is called Past Lives, an investigation into reincarnation memories, also
Speaker 3: shining light on transcendence, an unconventional journey of a neuroscientist,
Speaker 3: The Hidden Door, Understanding and Controlling Dreams, The True Truth
Speaker 3: in the Light, an investigation of over three hundred near
Speaker 3: death experiences, and the art of Dying. These stories of
Speaker 3: people being there to greet us when we migrate to
Speaker 3: the other side are so comforting to me, and I
Speaker 3: love thinking that we live now in a four dimensional universe,
Speaker 3: but there really is five dimensions, and when our bodies die,
Speaker 3: we get to tap into everything that exists. We do
Speaker 3: live in an intelligent universe. To think that we are
Speaker 3: living and breathing with consciousness, just to add a little
Speaker 3: food and water and sunlight and exercise, and look at
Speaker 3: the great things that human beings have done over the
Speaker 3: course of the many years on this earth. With so
Speaker 3: much intelligence, why wouldn't there be an intelligence in dying.
Speaker 3: Let's continue with a few more words from doctor pa Fenwick.
Speaker 1: You can have consciousness part of a non local informational field,
Speaker 1: no space and no time. And person who likes that
Speaker 1: is Stephen Schwartz played a little with that and published
Speaker 1: in Neuroquontology. I don't know whether it makes a coherent
Speaker 1: story or not, but it's a model of non local
Speaker 1: consciousness with no space and no time, and the required
Speaker 1: features for that model is an intention or directed attention,
Speaker 1: emotional linking, terribly important transition of consciousness which you get,
Speaker 1: and an entrance into a newminal reality which you suddenly
Speaker 1: get in that as well.
Speaker 3: There were a few questions that doctor Fenwick was asked
Speaker 3: near the end of his presentation, so I'm just going
Speaker 3: to include him speaking on a few various topics.
Speaker 1: We have not had any stories of hellish experiences. Let
Speaker 1: me be clear. That is that some people certainly have
Speaker 1: spiritual anxiety when they die, and always it's been related
Speaker 1: to unfinished business. But talking to hospice cares and so on,
Speaker 1: you know now it isn't hellish at all. The picture
Speaker 1: that I've given you of the other realm I think
Speaker 1: is correct. I find it interesting in the near death experience.
Speaker 1: People who have talked to about the life review sometimes
Speaker 1: they will say I had this fantastic life review, but
Speaker 1: when you question them on it, they no, it wasn't.
Speaker 1: It's just specific things which have come up. Other people
Speaker 1: have a panoramic life review, and they really do. And
Speaker 1: as soon as you get that sort of experience, it
Speaker 1: raises questions about the nature of memory and whether memory
Speaker 1: is in fact all in the brain, or whether in
Speaker 1: fact you have to think in terms of external storage
Speaker 1: of the memory in some sort of way, particularly of
Speaker 1: course in the near death experience, when we arguing there
Speaker 1: is some proper brain function anyway. But I haven't seen
Speaker 1: a full analysis done of the cardiac arrest ND life
Speaker 1: reviews that would be where we could start actually to
Speaker 1: understand these more So, I don't think the data is
Speaker 1: all there yet?
Speaker 4: Has there been some data about the if you like,
Speaker 4: the levels of consciousness of him, person who.
Speaker 1: Is dying or has us wizardly dyed?
Speaker 4: For example, if Ramen Maricchi, if we had a data
Speaker 4: about him, it's likely to be quite different from somebody
Speaker 4: who has had never had any sort of his spiritual
Speaker 4: training or excuritience or any So is.
Speaker 1: There some data? Very little? It moves on on to
Speaker 1: a thing which I did in an area I didn't
Speaker 1: talk about at all, and that is, in fact, sudden
Speaker 1: recovery of consciousness from coma. And this occurs. I think
Speaker 1: one figure I saw from a New Zealand hospice is
Speaker 1: in about six percent. And there's a very nice paper
Speaker 1: by Bruce Grayson and Norn on the subject is to
Speaker 1: be called lightning up before death in the victory or
Speaker 1: in literature. And what happens is the person who is
Speaker 1: deeply chermatosed and then he suddenly alerts. The other point
Speaker 1: is that when they alert, it's usually just before death.
Speaker 1: It's called ternal lucidity. And so what happens is you
Speaker 1: go unconscious, then you alert, greet your relatives living, greet
Speaker 1: your relatives dead, then fall back and die. Well, that's
Speaker 1: interesting enough, but they're much more interested to it, and
Speaker 1: that is that we've got accounts from people in nursing
Speaker 1: homes when the dying had profound Alzheimer's and haven't recognized
Speaker 1: their family, and yet when they come out of lucid
Speaker 1: interval or tone, luciviy or other, they in fact recognize
Speaker 1: the family. The other thing that they do is their
Speaker 1: bodies are totally paralyzed from strokes, but yet they sit
Speaker 1: up and hold out hands which they haven't used before.
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of interesting scientific things about that.
Speaker 1: But as to measuring the actual level, no, we haven't
Speaker 1: really got far enough with that yet. But what I
Speaker 1: would like from you are a whole lot of high
Speaker 1: practitioners who are happy for us to examine them when
Speaker 1: they die. So let's end with the great inventor Edison,
Speaker 1: just hours before his death, emerged from a coma, opened
Speaker 1: his eyes, looked upwards and said, it's very beautiful over there.
Speaker 1: Now we've got lots of those stories. We've also got
Speaker 1: stories in which the dying say, or the people who
Speaker 1: are next to the dying report that the dying say
Speaker 1: just before they die. Particularly the non believers that the
Speaker 1: last of life. I was quite wrong. It's quite different
Speaker 1: from what I thought. So you got a lot of
Speaker 1: those stories. We've got a lot of stories too of
Speaker 1: people who don't know that a relative has died and
Speaker 1: the relative comes in the deathbed vision and they say
Speaker 1: to them they behave as you would do to a
Speaker 1: relative who you don't know has died. Hi, nice to see.
Speaker 1: What are you doing here? So you've got a number
Speaker 1: of those stories too, which again sort of goes in
Speaker 1: with these models which we're putting forward. And finally you
Speaker 1: all know this one. Steve Jobs said wow, wow, wow,
Speaker 1: as he died, and so you should. If you're going
Speaker 1: into that reality, that's exactly what you'll do. It's very positive,
Speaker 1: very very of farming. So with thanks to my colleagues,
Speaker 1: don't forget I like stories, so we have a huge
Speaker 1: bank of stories. Matt, thanks very much.
Speaker 3: Thank you doctor Fenwick for your over fifty years of
Speaker 3: service into consciousness. If you go on YouTube you can
Speaker 3: find a video called the Final Border Peter Fenwick at
Speaker 3: TEDx Berlin. There's over a million views and close to
Speaker 3: fourteen hundred comments. I want to read to you a
Speaker 3: few of them. My ninety year old mother saw her
Speaker 3: deceased mother in the dining room of her nursing home
Speaker 3: less than a week before she passed. She told the nurse,
Speaker 3: my mother's here. I want to go with her. Another.
Speaker 3: Just before my mom died, she had Alzheimer's disease, and
Speaker 3: she had not spoken a word in five years and
Speaker 3: had to be turned in her bed. She suddenly turned
Speaker 3: on her own and looked up towards where the ceiling
Speaker 3: meets the wall and made the wow with her mouth.
Speaker 3: She didn't speak in words, but had a look of
Speaker 3: amazement and joy. It was really wonderful to see that happen.
Speaker 3: Another My eighty seven year old grandmother was speaking and
Speaker 3: laughing at the ceiling for three days. My grandfather said
Speaker 3: thought she had lost her marbles. My aunt, which was
Speaker 3: her daughter, was the only one who believed my grandmother
Speaker 3: when she said, it's my mom and all the others
Speaker 3: they're telling me they're getting things ready for me. She
Speaker 3: then passed peacefully. Here's another. A few days before my
Speaker 3: father passed away, I had an unusually vivid dream. My
Speaker 3: father's deceased brother visited me. I was so happy to
Speaker 3: see my uncle. He put his arm around my shoulder
Speaker 3: and turned me where he showed me a bright, beautiful
Speaker 3: tunnel of light. Then I saw my father walking into
Speaker 3: the tunnel. I looked at my uncle and he was
Speaker 3: smiling and so happy and comforting. My father passed away
Speaker 3: two days later. Another says, my grandma has never acted
Speaker 3: crazy in her life. She was very down to earth,
Speaker 3: and right before she fell asleep for the last time,
Speaker 3: she said that my grandpa had come to get her,
Speaker 3: and he told her it's time to go home and
Speaker 3: stop talking about being an old lady. Another says, my
Speaker 3: dad said he could see the light and feel the
Speaker 3: love coming for him. He was lucid until the end.
Speaker 3: And another my mother was dying and my brother and
Speaker 3: sister were traveling across three states to get to the hospital.
Speaker 3: My sister got to the hospital and then my brother arrived.
Speaker 3: My mom had been sleeping all day, but then she
Speaker 3: sat up and said, good, you're all here. Then she smiled,
Speaker 3: laid her head back on the pillow, and died. Here's another.
Speaker 3: When my ninety three year old grandmother was dying, my
Speaker 3: mother visited her. Bertha said to my mom, Betty, you
Speaker 3: should have been here. An amazing cat was here and
Speaker 3: looking at me. He was so beautiful. The next day
Speaker 3: she died. Then many years later I went to see
Speaker 3: my father in a nursing home. He said, you just
Speaker 3: missed the most amazing thing. A huge and beautiful cat
Speaker 3: was here and gazing at me. And two days later
Speaker 3: he died. Apparently, in my family you get to see
Speaker 3: the cat. And one more, my grandpa saw his brother
Speaker 3: who had passed away twenty years prior, which of course
Speaker 3: made him so happy. From his side of the conversation,
Speaker 3: they were going fishing, which was their favorite activity when
Speaker 3: they were both alive. Grandpa died just a few days later.
Speaker 3: It's not easy for us human beings, is it. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of worry in our life, a lot of fear,
Speaker 3: there's guilt. What I recommend for all of us is
Speaker 3: spend time listening to these kinds of stories, reading good books,
Speaker 3: but most importantly, talking to our loved ones, keeping them
Speaker 3: part of our lives and included in our lives. The
Speaker 3: day will come and we'll be able to see that
Speaker 3: fifth dimension and realize they've been a part of our
Speaker 3: lives all along. Slow down, talk to them and trust
Speaker 3: those loving feelings are coming from them. I want to
Speaker 3: remind you to come visit me at We Don'tdie dot com.
Speaker 3: Come to one of our free Sunday gatherings with medium
Speaker 3: demonstration included. Come about fifteen minutes early and you can
Speaker 3: say hello, I would love to meet you. I'm Sandra Champlain.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to Shades of the
Speaker 3: Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
Speaker 3: podcast Network.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Speaker 2: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
Speaker 2: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
Speaker 2: to iHeartRadio dot com. Spils