1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:01,280 Speaker 1: And you're here. 2 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 2: Thanks for choosing the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost Day 3 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 2: and Paranormal Podcast Network. Your quest for podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, 4 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 2: and the unexplained ends here. They invite you to enjoy 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: all our shows we have on this network, and right now, 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: let's start with Chase of the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain. 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 3: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 3: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 3: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 3: to Coast, am employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 3: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 3: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi, 13 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 3: I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been 14 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 3: on a journey to prove the existence of life after death. 15 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 3: On each episode, discuss the reasons we now know that 16 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 3: our loved ones have survived physical debt and so will we. 17 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 3: Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. It is with sadness 18 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 3: today that I report that psychiatrist doctor Peter Fenwick has 19 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 3: recently moved into the world of spirit and today I 20 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 3: want to dedicate this episode to him. Doctor Fenwick passed 21 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 3: peacefully in his home at the age of eighty nine, 22 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 3: surrounded by his family. He was a British neuropsychiatrist, neurophysiologist, 23 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 3: and parapsychologist who studied near death experiences and was convinced 24 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 3: that our consciousness is freed after death. His interest in 25 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 3: near death experiences was piqued when he read doctor Raymond 26 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 3: Moody's book Life After Life. He was initially skeptical of 27 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 3: Moody's evidence, but he reassessed his opinion about these experiences 28 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 3: after one of his own patients described a near death 29 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 3: experience very similar to that of doctor Moody's work. After that, 30 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 3: he collected and analyzed over three hundred and fifty examples 31 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 3: of near death experiences. Doctor Fenwick has had a long 32 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 3: standing interest in brain function and the problem of consciousness 33 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 3: in where it is located, and has published a large 34 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 3: number of research papers related to altered states of consciousness, 35 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 3: abnormalities of consciousness and behavior, MDes, and end of life experiences, 36 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 3: some of which you'll hear on this episode today. In 37 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 3: nineteen seventy seven, doctor Fenwick joined the Scientific and Medical 38 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 3: Network became president of it in two thousand and one 39 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 3: and President emeritus in twenty twenty. 40 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: This is an. 41 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 3: Organization that, for over fifty years, connects spirituality through science 42 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 3: and education. You can find out more about them at 43 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 3: Scientific and Medical dot net. Doctor Fenwick and his wife 44 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 3: Elizabeth gave so much of themselves to this network, and 45 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 3: they wrote several books, including the Art of Dying, The 46 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 3: Truth in the Light, which is an investigation of over 47 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 3: three hundred near death experiences, shining light on transcendence, The 48 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 3: Unconventional Journey of a Neuroscientist, and The Hidden Door Understanding 49 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 3: and Controlling Dreams. Today, I want to present to you 50 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 3: part of a lecture that doctor Fenwick gave to a 51 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 3: group of psychiatrists on the topic of experiences surrounding near 52 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 3: death and dying. I found this talk fascinating and I 53 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: believe you'll enjoy it too. And we hear at Shades 54 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 3: of the Afterlife. Well, we're going to do our part 55 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 3: to make sure doctor Peter Fenwick's work stay relevant and 56 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 3: gets to the most amount of people. Doctor Fenwick was 57 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 3: not afraid to die, and today you'll find out why. 58 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 3: Meet doctor Peter Fenwick. 59 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: What I'd like to do today is to talk about 60 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: near death experiences and approaching death experiences. And the reason 61 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: for that is that I became interested in the near 62 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: death experience when I had a patient who had it, 63 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: and what I needed to do is to try and 64 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: understand them if I could. It seems to me that 65 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: the models which we have are really not good enough. 66 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: On materialistic models aren't because they always ended the brain. 67 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: What was part clearly happening was that this was not 68 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,679 Speaker 1: ending at the brain. So I thought that what I 69 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: needed to do is to look further into other models, 70 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: which we could aide if you like, with the sand 71 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: mechanical model. So today we'll set out the problems. I'm 72 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: going to look at cardiac arrest, NDEs, end of life experience, 73 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: and I'll occasionally drop the word ELI and that end 74 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: of life experience, contribution of these to models of our 75 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: understanding of consciousness and some sort of conclusion I hope, 76 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: and for this talk, mind equals consciousness, because I'm not 77 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: going to get into the debate. So that's the position 78 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:24,239 Speaker 1: I'm coming from. Okay, the problem, really it can be said. 79 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: It's quite simply the sound in paradigm states that brain 80 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: processes and only brain processes are responsible for the generation 81 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: experience of consciousness. The transmission theory, our constructs of the 82 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,679 Speaker 1: world are in part the transmission of the absolute nature 83 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: of reality and part brain processes. So there's the two 84 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: sides that I'm going to look at. Now. If you're 85 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: going to ask the question what is the relationship between 86 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: brain and mind? Then I have worked the whole time 87 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: with the cats can fMRIs, magneto and cephilography EEG. And 88 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: there's no consciousnessness there. There are magnetic fields, they're electrical fields. 89 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: There is the transmission of information, but there's no consciousness. 90 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: So that's not going to help me. So I think 91 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: you've got to look for art lives. And are there 92 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: situations where mind and brain are not the same. Yes, 93 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: when there is no brain function but experiences reported e g. 94 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: Cardiac arrest NDEs and these thus represent non brain experience, 95 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: and I'll support the later. And are there any other artlowers? Yes? 96 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: Are the situations when consciousness starts to loosen from the 97 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: brain and finally separates and disintegrates. Well, yes, during the 98 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: process of death. So subjective experiences of the dying should 99 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: show similarities to that of the nd So if there 100 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: is a transcendent reality. We'll see it in the nd 101 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: we'll pick it up as people slowly attenuate their normal 102 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: structures consciousness. So let's look at near death experiences. These 103 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: are very familiar to you all, so I'm not going 104 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: to go into it. This is just a summary of 105 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: NDE paypos by Rousseau, and it's a nice summary. What 106 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: I want to draw your attention to is this when 107 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: it's being dead is one and out body experiences is another. 108 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: You see they color up nicely and bright light. I 109 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: want to draw your attention to. That's seventy two percent. 110 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 3: I want to jump in on this part. Doctor Fenwick 111 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 3: posted a chart that were common features of a near 112 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 3: death experience. I'll read those to you now, and then 113 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 3: we'll get back to his words. First of all, he 114 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 3: says the overall incidence of them is about four percent. 115 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 3: Of people who have cardiac arrests, seventy seven percent of 116 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 3: them feel calmness, thirty eight percent feel joy, ninety percent 117 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 3: feel an absence of bodily sensation, ninety two percent are 118 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 3: aware of being dead. Fifty eight percent have an out 119 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 3: of body experience in a new material plane. Thirty five 120 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 3: percent have out of body experiences or vertical experiences. These 121 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 3: are the ones that they float above their body and 122 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 3: can see people working on them in the operating room. 123 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 3: Thirty four percent have vivid sensory experiences. Thirty one percent 124 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 3: experience esp or telepathy, thirty nine percent feel a dark space, 125 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 3: then a bright tunnel, Seventy two percent experience the bright light, 126 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 3: twenty four percent beautiful music, forty three percent experience a 127 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 3: being of light or a guide and deep knowledge and 128 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 3: wisdom and love. Thirty eight percent experience another realm, which 129 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 3: may be a beautiful country guard, and forty one percent 130 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 3: experience their dead relatives and friends and other spiritual beings. 131 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 3: Eighteen percent have a panoramic life review. 132 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: Let's continue, Okay, the being of light, I want to 133 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: light up knowledge and wisdom and love, and then the 134 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: other realms are enormously important, So being of light and 135 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: light and the other realms or the fantastic gardens, et cetera. 136 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: In our culture and a lot in others. Of the 137 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: near death experience, and this one is terribly important. You 138 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: can't actually see it if I can read it to you, 139 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: and that is dead relatives and French and spiritual beings 140 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: who appear in forty one percent of NDEs. So let's 141 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: look at cardiac arrest NDEs. When we got over two 142 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: thousand letters from our first film on NDEs, and what 143 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: became quite apparent to me was that if you want 144 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: to ask serious questions about the end in terms of 145 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: its own provenance, what generates it, you can't use an 146 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: ordinary nd because you don't know what the brain state is. 147 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: There's one thing where you do know the brain state, 148 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: and that is during cardiac arrest NDEs. If they came 149 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: during the cardiac arrest, well, the incidents during cardiac arrests 150 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: varies from about ten to twenty percent. But the main 151 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: thing that I want to say is that the phenomena 152 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: of the arrest endes are the same as the phenomena 153 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: of the non arrest NDEs, which is interesting. So I 154 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: can argue from the arrest NDEs to the non arrest endes, 155 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: and also that the depth of them varies according to 156 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: the closeness to death. This is evidence the non local 157 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: functioning of mind during a cardiac arrest. The outer body 158 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: experience is ridical remote viewing bright light, which is transcendental 159 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: experience of other realms and relatives, friends and spiritual beings, 160 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: So keep those categories in mind, out of body, remote viewing, 161 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: bright light, experience of other realms, and transcendence. And this 162 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: is the standard thing that you walking along, your heart stops, 163 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: your consciousness goes down, it restarts, and you have a 164 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: confusional arousal, and the NDE is thought to occur at 165 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: that time little bit of neurology for you. When the 166 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: heart stops, the brain stem goes down, so you have 167 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: no heartbeat controlled from the brainstem, no respiration controlled from 168 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: the brain stem, and you have no consciousness also controlled 169 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: from the brain stem. So in fact, the brain is dead. 170 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: Now people who don't really understand brain functional saying this 171 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: is just a little bit of brain functioning rubbish. Either 172 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: isn't to be. If there is, it's not going to 173 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: support consciousness, and it's not going to support clear consciousness 174 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: of the sort that occurs in the nd because you see, 175 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: there has to be the whole of this sort of 176 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: mechanism which is initiated from the brain stem, which keeps 177 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: the cortex working, and it's not there because the brain 178 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: stem is done. So cardiac arrest and electrical silence indicate 179 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: that the brain stem and cortex are inactive, so you 180 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: can't go along any of those lines. So then what 181 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: is the evidence that during that phase you can intact 182 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: experience things. They are over a hundred anecdote with ridical 183 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: OBE cases and those during cardiac arrests and the subject 184 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: leaves his body and sees the resuscitation, usually from above. 185 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: If you're going to test the ritical nature of the ND, 186 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: you want a cardiac arrest and an OBE group, an 187 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 1: out of body experience group. 188 00:12:58,400 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 3: We have to take a quick break, but you're going 189 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 3: to love where we're going next. You're listening to Shades 190 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 3: of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 191 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 3: AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. 192 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 3: I'm Sandra Champlain and you're listening to the great doctor 193 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 3: Peter Fenwick. And as we continue in this episode, you'll 194 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 3: hear more about near death experiences and those extraordinary experiences 195 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 3: that many people have seeing loved ones, etc. Just before 196 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 3: we pass, just to recap what he said before we 197 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 3: took the break, basically is that consciousness, if it solely 198 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 3: lives in the brain, cannot exist when the heart stops 199 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 3: and our brain stem goes down. In that case, he says, 200 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 3: the brain is dead. It is in these moments that 201 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 3: the extraordinary out of body and near death experience occurs. 202 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 3: So let's continue. 203 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: There are over one hundred anecdote with ridical OBE cases 204 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: and those during cardiac arrests and the subject leaves his 205 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: body and sees the resuscitation, usually from above. If you're 206 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: going to test the ritical nature of the nd you 207 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: want a cardiac arrest and an OBE group, an out 208 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: of body experience group you could use as a control 209 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: for that. Cardiac arrests and no other body experiences, because 210 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: people are going to say, if you ask them after 211 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: the arrest what happened during it, We've all seen television 212 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: programs and so on. So he says, well, of course 213 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: they know. Well. In fact, Penny Sartori, who did her 214 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: PhD on NDEs, guided them up into those who said 215 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: they could see what was happening and those who said 216 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: they couldn't, and then looked at their accounts, and the 217 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: accounts of the people who said they could see what 218 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: was happening much more accurate than those who couldn't. So 219 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: it's just another piece of information. Okay, So what we're 220 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: dealing with this fifty year old man not healing well. 221 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: Going to hospital. They see that he's got a cardiac problem, 222 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: taking up the cardiac cathlab. So this guy's in the 223 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: cath lab and he goes into ventri kilar fibrillation. His 224 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: heart obviously has stopped. He's unconscious, so he's unconscious on 225 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: the table. Everybody sees it. The next thing that happens 226 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: is he says he leaves his body. Okay. They put 227 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: on something which is called an aed an Automatic external defibrillator, 228 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: and this has a protocol with it, so you put 229 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: the electrodes on and it measures the heart and sees 230 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: whether it's in normalism or not. If it's not in 231 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: normal rhythm, it will advise a shark. So that's what happened. 232 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: So they give him a shark and there's no response. 233 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: In other words, he remains in ventriction fibrillation, deeply unconscious, 234 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: and they have to do a full round of CPR. 235 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: Other words, they have to pummel his chest, et cetera. 236 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: That goes on for three or four minutes. This guy's 237 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: unconscious there and then they put it on again and 238 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: the machine says advise sharks. So he's still in ventrically 239 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: fibrillations throughout this time, and then his heart starts, so 240 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: we've got a clear, clear period of unconsciousness, no cardiac output. 241 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: It's absolutely solid, and he's unconscious. There's no little bit 242 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: of consciousness there. The guys out and we know that 243 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: he's unconscious from three to five minutes. But he was 244 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: aware during this time. He saw himself leave his body 245 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: at the beginning, went up into a corner of the room, 246 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: looked back. There was a woman he saw, who he 247 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: then later classified as an angel, who said to him 248 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: when he was lying on the bed, come up, come up, 249 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: and he thought that'd be ridiculous. Next thing he knew 250 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: he was up there, and then he looked back and 251 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: he had both that and sol the resuscitation process. So 252 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 1: he has clear consciousness during the time of his arrest, 253 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: which is monitored. I mean, it's about the best case 254 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: you can get. The guy's aye, but he's unconscious, he's 255 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: got no consciousness, so it's a really nice solid case. 256 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: This case suggests that he was dead to the medical team. 257 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: The patient claims to be conscious, so brain and mind 258 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: are separated during ventricular fibrillation. So that's really quite a 259 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: powerful statement to be able to make okay, so we 260 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: can talk about now. Happily, the brain and mind are 261 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: separated during the nd so what about the mental states 262 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: the dying? Can we gain information as the brain fail? 263 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: I got this nice quotes from Stafford Bessie because it 264 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: is really good in terms of just setting the feelings 265 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: for it. Whether dying persons are telling us of glimpses 266 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: of the next world or conversing with people we can't see, 267 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: we should consider ourselves immensely blessed when it happens. If 268 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: we don't make the mistake of assuming get confused, we're 269 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: likely to feel some of the excitement they convey for 270 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: your witnessing the momentary merging of two worlds that at 271 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: all other times remain tightly compartmentalized and mutually inaccessible. The 272 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: merging is what I mean by the spirituality of death. 273 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: So I want you to get this feeling of two 274 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,719 Speaker 1: worlds slowly starting to merge as the dying process continues. 275 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: Let's look at the death process. What is it? How 276 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: does it occur? There are lessons for you guys here. 277 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: All of you must die, So we're going to look 278 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: at the dissolution of consciousness. We have done a lot 279 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: of work on this retrospective studies. Prospective studies. We've done 280 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: it in England and in Holland. We've got over fifteen 281 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 1: hundred emails of stories and so we've interviewed doctors, nurses, 282 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: auxiliary staff, chaplin, volunteers, et cetera, et cetera. So it 283 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: built up a lot of information about the dying process. 284 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: We gave every a questionnaire looking at deathbed visions, deathbed coincidence, 285 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: light surrounding the body, shape, scene, leaving the body, transiting 286 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: to new reality and so on. So that's our database 287 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: and these are the conclusions really. So first of all, 288 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: when we went into this, this just about two thousand 289 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: and four, and we couldn't say that they actually occurred 290 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: because there wasn't a consensus in the literature. So we 291 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: started from the grants then that they may not occur. 292 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: And if they did occur, what were they like or 293 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: were they just simply fantasis of the dying nan The 294 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: present consensus is that over fifty percent of those dying 295 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: consciously will have end of life experiences. So please all 296 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: of you die consciously, then you get the fireworks and 297 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: if you see somebody coming up to you with a 298 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: syringe full of madesil Lamb saying have this because you're 299 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: obviously in distress. Say no, no, no, no, no, no 300 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 1: no no. I want to watch this whole process, and 301 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 1: it's very important. Otherwise you won't get some of the 302 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: things we're talking about. So this is the formulation of 303 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: the dying process. And the life experiences may start with 304 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: premonitions of own death or another's death. The reason I 305 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: say that is from the results of our studies and 306 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: emails which are sent in. So premonitions are right at 307 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: the beginning. There the dial Alama says two years before 308 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 1: you may get information about death. I assume that's corrected 309 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: in this book. And if you look at the stories, 310 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: they're not usually that long, and the stories sometimes relate 311 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: to promontory visit by dead relatives. So dead relatives come. 312 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: I want you just to think about this. My mother 313 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: was in the hospital after a fam that fractures her ribs. 314 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: One day she saw my dead brother at the door 315 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: of her room. She said it made her very happy 316 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: to see him. So it's really interesting. There's a changing 317 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: consciousness that these things have a different meaning to the 318 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: person who receives the vision. I joked that he had 319 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: come to take her on to the next world, and 320 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: we laughed about it, and two weeks later she died unexpectedly. 321 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: So there's a promontory visit. This one is a very 322 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: sad one. The mother learns about the fact that her 323 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: child is going to die. My third daughter, Roberta, was 324 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: just seventy years old on May the seventeenth, nineteen eighty nine, 325 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: when I woke up in the morning totally upset and 326 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 1: in mourning over her death. I was so surprised and 327 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: confused to see her lying next to me that I 328 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: actually gently nudged her to see if she was alive. 329 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: So this was a really powerful experience. She apparently had 330 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: gotten up during the night and climbed in next to me. 331 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: When she moved, I cried uncontrollably with relief that she 332 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: was not dead and hugged her. She did not seem 333 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: to mind or make any fasts. Perhaps she knew why 334 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: I felt relief. I did not tell her I thought 335 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: she was dead. Could not remember any dream, so it's 336 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: not a dream. But the feelings were so strong and real, 337 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: exactly as they were two days later, when she was 338 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: the victim of a hit and run accident, so very 339 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: clear premonition of what was going to occur. So this 340 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: can be the start of the dead process. I say 341 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: can be because not everybody has has it. The next 342 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: stage our deathbed visions. This is some of our data 343 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: really just to show you how common these are in 344 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: the retrospective studies between sixteen seventy percent and the prospect 345 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 1: his studies it's about sixty percent approximately, So they're common 346 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: much than people are prepared to say. In fact, there's 347 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: a split medical people say it doesn't happen the nurse 348 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: who say it that the nurses of the patients, they 349 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: hear the stories. So who do the dying see? Now, 350 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: keep in mind that we're thinking about near death experiences 351 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: the same time, the parents are the most common. Persons 352 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: unknown or the next ones generally defined as spiritual beings. 353 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: A lot of people can't speak at that point, but 354 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: you can greet somebody joyfully, houses and siblings, but the 355 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: same in our sample, we see very few angels. Pity 356 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: and liked an angel. Well maybe I'll get an angel, 357 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: like don't they sometimes your NDC friends? And we only 358 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: have two examples of dogs and cats. Really sorry about 359 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: the dog and cat lovers mainly going to be humans 360 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: who come to see you. So compared to NDEs, dead roads, 361 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: his friends' spiritual beings appearing forty one percent of those 362 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: so very similar transiting to a new realm. This is 363 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: the next phase. This is enormously interesting. The work in 364 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: Zeric on this is really important. They've just brought out 365 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: a paper which shows that these are people who are 366 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: dying of cancer in the last fortnight of their life. 367 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: Over fifty percent in fact, transit to the new realm. Well, 368 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: you know what it's going to be, light, don't you? 369 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: An area very like that the nd beautiful region where 370 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 1: they meet other people, spiritual beings there to help them, 371 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: dead relatives. Some describe it as a waiting place. So 372 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: we now have a match between the experience of the 373 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: NDEs and as consciousness slowly slowly disappears, because it's only 374 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 1: in the last few weeks before death, then you go 375 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: into this other realm, you come back, go into the 376 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: other realm, come back again, etc. Suddenly she seemed to 377 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: stare intently at the window. She turned to me and said, please, Pauline, 378 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: don't ever be afraid of dying. I've seen a beautiful 379 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: light and I was going towards it. I wanted to 380 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: go into that light. It was so peaceful. I really 381 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: had to fight to come back. Sadly, she died the 382 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: next morning. I knew she had seen something that day 383 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: which gave her comfort and peace when she knew she'd 384 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: only have to live. So again, a very good match 385 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: between the ND. 386 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 3: I never get sick of hearing stories of what people 387 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 3: see just before they pass. No one dies alone. It's 388 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 3: time for our next break and we'll be right back. 389 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 3: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio 390 00:25:38,359 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 3: and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back 391 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 3: to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain, and you're 392 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 3: listening to the words of the late doctor Peter Fenwick, 393 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 3: who just passed into the spirit world this month at 394 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 3: the age of eighty nine. From all the interviews I've heard, 395 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 3: he was not afraid to die. In fact, he was 396 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 3: a proponent that we all die consciously so we can experience, 397 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 3: as he said, the fireworks. Let's continue with more stories 398 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 3: from the deathbed and his views on consciousness living outside 399 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 3: of the brain. 400 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: Suddenly, she seemed to stare intently at the window. She 401 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: turned to me and said, please, Pauline, don't ever be 402 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: afraid of dying. I've seen a beautiful light and I 403 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: was going towards it. I wanted to go into that light. 404 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: It was so peaceful. I really had to fight to 405 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 1: come back. Sadly, she died the next morning. I knew 406 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: she'd seen something that day which gave her comfort and 407 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: peace when she knew she'd only have to live. So again, 408 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: a very good match between the nd. There's the data 409 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: the English prospective from the Dutch prospective running at about 410 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: fifty percent of the carers had seen these experiences, so 411 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: compared to the end where it's thirty eight percent of 412 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 1: people have these experiences. Now the next thing is then 413 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: you come up to death itself. Now, death is absolutely fascinating. 414 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: It's not just a turning off. There are a whole 415 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: set of phenomena which you occur, mainly non local. The 416 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: first st one is radiant light in the room of 417 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: the dying light which is everywhere in the room. It 418 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: can be specifically things, it can be spiritual globules of 419 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: light which have seen in the room at that time. 420 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: And of course the light with the dying is very 421 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 1: like the light the nd deep knowledge, wisdom and love. 422 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: If you are in it, that wisdom and love and 423 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: knowledge can transform the person who's dying. And you talk 424 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: about transformation and transcendence. Here a couple of light stories. 425 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: I took them because they're nice and ple ones. This 426 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: is a chaplain. Sometimes I've seen the light which is 427 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: in a corner like candlelight. It's a golden light. It's 428 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: not electric light, and it's not one of the hospice 429 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: lights just appears, sometimes goes when they die, they take 430 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: their last breaths, everything settles down, the light goes out. 431 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 1: Another one when her mother was dying, this amazing light 432 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: appeared in the room. The whole room was filled with 433 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: this amazing light, and her mother died. So there is 434 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: this phenomena of light which is part of dying. Now, 435 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: I want to go onto the other thing, which happens 436 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: at the time of death, and the evidence points to 437 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: it all being within a few moments of death, because 438 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: we've got a lot of accounts with times, and that 439 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: is deathbed coincidences, and they occur like this. You're in 440 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: Florida and you have a son who's in the UK, 441 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: and you pick up the fact that he's dying and 442 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: there's a connection between the two of you. So what 443 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: is this connection and how does it work? Well, it's fascinating. 444 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: First of all, they're very common. That's sixty percent of 445 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: carers had heard stories about it. In all the emails 446 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: we've got, a large proportion were devoted to deathbed coincidences. 447 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: From that, we can say a number of things. First 448 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: of all, they're driven by the person who's dying. They 449 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: select who it's going to be. How do we know 450 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: that If you have a broken couple, for example, where 451 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: the man goes off somewhere and the woman doesn't care 452 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: that he's gone, but he in fact still devoted to 453 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: his wife and he dies, he will visit the wife, 454 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: so it's driven by him. It's those people with strong 455 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: emotional attachments. We've got a number of stories of people 456 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: who said, my son wasn't there, that's why she came 457 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: to visit me when his mother died. So the deathbak 458 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: coincitances are fascinating. The form the visit takes depends on 459 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: the mental state of the person who's receiving the visit. 460 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: If they're awake, it's a feeling, it's a compulsion that 461 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: something has happened to this person. You have to garn 462 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: ring them up, you have to find out what's happened. 463 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: If they're asleep, it's quite different. It's narrative dream in 464 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: which the dying come and they do two things. They 465 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: first of all, come to be with the person. Then 466 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: they give them a message. The messages I'm okay, don't worry. 467 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: And quite often the dream ends with them going into 468 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: the light. So again similar sorts of things to the NDE. 469 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: Now this is also a time of huge parapsychological activity. 470 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: We've talked about the light, We've talked about the visits 471 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: of the distance. But you get connections with clocks. We've 472 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: got many clock stopping stories. Do you all know My 473 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: grandfather's clock stopped dead, never to go again when the 474 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: old man died. And here's a nice story, because is 475 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: it only mechanical clocks? They are the only ones that stopped? 476 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: What about electric clocks? So I got you this story. 477 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: My father died at three point fifteen am. At about 478 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: eight thirty am, I went to tell my uncle Archie, 479 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: who had been close to Dad. Noe. The emotional relationship 480 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: is always an emotional relationship. His uncle Archie opened the door. 481 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: It was clear he was distressed, and as I began 482 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: to tell him, he interrupted me and said he already knew. 483 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: He said no one had telephoned him. So it's a 484 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: bit of a deathbed coincidence here too. But told me 485 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: to look at the clock on the mantelpiece that was 486 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: stopped at three fifteen, as was indeed his own wrist, 487 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: rocher's bedside clock, and all other clocks in the house. 488 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: Was even an led display on the flashing three point fifteen. 489 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: It's really good. So electronic clock stopped too. It's completely 490 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: taken aback. But Artie seemed comfortable with the phenomenon, was 491 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: just concerned losing someone close to him. So we got 492 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: lots and lots of clock stories. Got also a lot 493 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: of animal stories, dogs which howl in different places and 494 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: so on. So what I want you to think of 495 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: it as is, dying is not just a simple turning off. 496 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: There are all these parapsychological effects which occur at the 497 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: end of life. And don't forget that we are, in 498 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: fact in the transition to this other realm Okay, so 499 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: what's the meaning? The cares are very clear, They're all 500 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,719 Speaker 1: trons personal I just put into John Eccles. I mean 501 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,479 Speaker 1: he has to be aired, doesn't he, because of his 502 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: dualistic stance. He puts it nicely. I maintained that the 503 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: human mystery is incredibly demeaned by scientific reductionism, with its 504 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: claims in promissory materialism to account eventually for all spiritual 505 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,719 Speaker 1: world in terms of the pattern of neuronal activity. I mean, 506 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: it clearly has to be wrong. This belief must be 507 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: classed with a superstition. I rather like that, But this 508 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: one I take much more seriously. Do you all know? Penfield, 509 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: the neurosurgeon in Canada, spent his life with electrodes in 510 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: the brain, taking out various bits of people's brain. This 511 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: is his book, The Mystery of the Mind myself after 512 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: professional lifetime spent in trying to discover how the brain 513 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: accounts to the mind. It comes as a surprise now 514 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: to discover, during this final examination of the evidence, that 515 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: the dualist hypothesis separation of mind and brain seems the 516 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: more reasonable of the two possible explanations. Now, he's coming 517 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: from a very wide base of cerebral function. Mind comes 518 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: into action and goes out of action with the highest 519 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: brain mechanisms. It's true, but the mind has energy. The 520 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: form of that energy is different from that of neurinal 521 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: potentials of travel the external pathways. So he argues for 522 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: mind and brain being separate. You've probably seen this new 523 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: transmission theory by Lanza. He says that we carry space 524 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: and time around with us like turtles with shells, meaning 525 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: that when the shell comes off space and time, we 526 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: still exist. It's a nice concept about the limitation of 527 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: the body. The theory implies that death of consciousness simply 528 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,800 Speaker 1: does not exist. It only exists as a thought because 529 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: people identify themselves with their body. And he is the 530 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: guy who did a lot of the work on genetics, 531 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,919 Speaker 1: so he's got a very high scientific profile. So let's 532 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: summarize everything using the death data. How can we conceive 533 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: the world. What sort of pattern would it have? Well, 534 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 1: this is the pattern of the dying process as I 535 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: see it. Premonitions, deathbed visions. You can negotiate with your visions. 536 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: Do remember that when your aunt comes to tell you, 537 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 1: probably your mum actually comes to tell you that she's 538 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 1: going to come back and pick you up, you can 539 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: say not this week. You can't say because it's a 540 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 1: great party in the hospice where you won't be taking 541 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: part in this anyway, but you can say, because my 542 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: son is coming, they wait for that. And we've got 543 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: lovely accounts of negotiation with the deathbed visions. It brings 544 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: hope and joy. Then you come to this new reality, 545 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: total lucidity I haven't talked about, although that's fascinating. And 546 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: then you come to actual death itself, deathbed coincidences, and 547 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: then all these parapsychological things like clocks, animals, light bells, 548 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: And this is a fascinating one. That's shape seen leaving 549 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,919 Speaker 1: the body. They're very clear when people see them. They're 550 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: described as whist bike or smoke, and sometimes they're more 551 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: solid and they come out usually from the top of 552 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: the head, sometimes from the chest. We've had one or 553 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: two that have come out of the feet. With them, 554 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: there is a presence in the room as the shape 555 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: is leaving. We're part of the five dimensional manifold. Why 556 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: do I like that theory? Bernard Carr really likes this, 557 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: the idea of the brain, which is the four dimensional 558 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: world and the fifth dimension behind it, and he talks 559 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: about Clusi cline and the fifth dimension. Why am I 560 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: attracted to that. I'm attracted to it because of the 561 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: idea of what people report when they're out of their 562 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: bodies during a cardiac arrest. They can remotely view so 563 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: space is contained. They can in fact see all round objects, 564 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: they can see the bottom, they can see the top, etc. 565 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: So again it suggests a different form of reality at 566 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: that time. I quite like the idea of a fifth dimension. 567 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: We've got to have something like that which will explain 568 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: the data. Five dimensions will explain that's noo and and 569 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: we find in dying. So you can, if you like, 570 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: take the idea that you lose the limitation of the 571 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: four dimensions and the fifth dimension is the one which 572 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: comes to the four. David Lawton, who I do like 573 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: he's worked a lot with near death experiences, argues for 574 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: a five dimensional structure for NDEs and argues that death 575 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: is simply the withdrawal of the four D part being 576 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: the five D intact. So it's an interesting idea again. 577 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: Or you can have consciousness part of a non local 578 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 1: informational field, no space and no time. And person who 579 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: likes that is Stephen Schwartz. 580 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 3: We'll find out about Stephen Schwartz when we get back 581 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,399 Speaker 3: from the break. Some of what he says goes right 582 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 3: over my head. We must remember he's speaking to a 583 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 3: group of doctors who may have had a little bit 584 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,320 Speaker 3: more schooling than myself. So let's go to the break 585 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 3: and we'll be back with more. Doctor Peter Fenwick, you're 586 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 3: listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and 587 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 3: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back to 588 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,320 Speaker 3: Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain and you're listening 589 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 3: to the words of the late and great doctor Peter Fenwick. 590 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 3: Just a reminder of some of his book titles. One 591 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 3: is called Past Lives, an investigation into reincarnation memories, also 592 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 3: shining light on transcendence, an unconventional journey of a neuroscientist, 593 00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 3: The Hidden Door, Understanding and Controlling Dreams, The True Truth 594 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 3: in the Light, an investigation of over three hundred near 595 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 3: death experiences, and the art of Dying. These stories of 596 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 3: people being there to greet us when we migrate to 597 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 3: the other side are so comforting to me, and I 598 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 3: love thinking that we live now in a four dimensional universe, 599 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,959 Speaker 3: but there really is five dimensions, and when our bodies die, 600 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 3: we get to tap into everything that exists. We do 601 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 3: live in an intelligent universe. To think that we are 602 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 3: living and breathing with consciousness, just to add a little 603 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 3: food and water and sunlight and exercise, and look at 604 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 3: the great things that human beings have done over the 605 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 3: course of the many years on this earth. With so 606 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,760 Speaker 3: much intelligence, why wouldn't there be an intelligence in dying. 607 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 3: Let's continue with a few more words from doctor pa Fenwick. 608 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: You can have consciousness part of a non local informational field, 609 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,319 Speaker 1: no space and no time. And person who likes that 610 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,320 Speaker 1: is Stephen Schwartz played a little with that and published 611 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: in Neuroquontology. I don't know whether it makes a coherent 612 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,040 Speaker 1: story or not, but it's a model of non local 613 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,240 Speaker 1: consciousness with no space and no time, and the required 614 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 1: features for that model is an intention or directed attention, 615 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:32,480 Speaker 1: emotional linking, terribly important transition of consciousness which you get, 616 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,800 Speaker 1: and an entrance into a newminal reality which you suddenly 617 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 1: get in that as well. 618 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,840 Speaker 3: There were a few questions that doctor Fenwick was asked 619 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 3: near the end of his presentation, so I'm just going 620 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,360 Speaker 3: to include him speaking on a few various topics. 621 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 1: We have not had any stories of hellish experiences. Let 622 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: me be clear. That is that some people certainly have 623 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: spiritual anxiety when they die, and always it's been related 624 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: to unfinished business. But talking to hospice cares and so on, 625 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: you know now it isn't hellish at all. The picture 626 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 1: that I've given you of the other realm I think 627 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: is correct. I find it interesting in the near death experience. 628 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: People who have talked to about the life review sometimes 629 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: they will say I had this fantastic life review, but 630 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: when you question them on it, they no, it wasn't. 631 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: It's just specific things which have come up. Other people 632 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: have a panoramic life review, and they really do. And 633 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: as soon as you get that sort of experience, it 634 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: raises questions about the nature of memory and whether memory 635 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 1: is in fact all in the brain, or whether in 636 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 1: fact you have to think in terms of external storage 637 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: of the memory in some sort of way, particularly of 638 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,839 Speaker 1: course in the near death experience, when we arguing there 639 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: is some proper brain function anyway. But I haven't seen 640 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:58,280 Speaker 1: a full analysis done of the cardiac arrest ND life 641 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: reviews that would be where we could start actually to 642 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,360 Speaker 1: understand these more So, I don't think the data is 643 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: all there yet? 644 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 4: Has there been some data about the if you like, 645 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 4: the levels of consciousness of him, person who. 646 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: Is dying or has us wizardly dyed? 647 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 4: For example, if Ramen Maricchi, if we had a data 648 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 4: about him, it's likely to be quite different from somebody 649 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 4: who has had never had any sort of his spiritual 650 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 4: training or excuritience or any So is. 651 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 1: There some data? Very little? It moves on on to 652 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: a thing which I did in an area I didn't 653 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,640 Speaker 1: talk about at all, and that is, in fact, sudden 654 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: recovery of consciousness from coma. And this occurs. I think 655 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:48,759 Speaker 1: one figure I saw from a New Zealand hospice is 656 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: in about six percent. And there's a very nice paper 657 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: by Bruce Grayson and Norn on the subject is to 658 00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,200 Speaker 1: be called lightning up before death in the victory or 659 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 1: in literature. And what happens is the person who is 660 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,840 Speaker 1: deeply chermatosed and then he suddenly alerts. The other point 661 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:13,280 Speaker 1: is that when they alert, it's usually just before death. 662 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: It's called ternal lucidity. And so what happens is you 663 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 1: go unconscious, then you alert, greet your relatives living, greet 664 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,879 Speaker 1: your relatives dead, then fall back and die. Well, that's 665 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,239 Speaker 1: interesting enough, but they're much more interested to it, and 666 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 1: that is that we've got accounts from people in nursing 667 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:44,319 Speaker 1: homes when the dying had profound Alzheimer's and haven't recognized 668 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 1: their family, and yet when they come out of lucid 669 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: interval or tone, luciviy or other, they in fact recognize 670 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 1: the family. The other thing that they do is their 671 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: bodies are totally paralyzed from strokes, but yet they sit 672 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: up and hold out hands which they haven't used before. 673 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 1: So there are a lot of interesting scientific things about that. 674 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,799 Speaker 1: But as to measuring the actual level, no, we haven't 675 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: really got far enough with that yet. But what I 676 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,840 Speaker 1: would like from you are a whole lot of high 677 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: practitioners who are happy for us to examine them when 678 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:24,600 Speaker 1: they die. So let's end with the great inventor Edison, 679 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: just hours before his death, emerged from a coma, opened 680 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,800 Speaker 1: his eyes, looked upwards and said, it's very beautiful over there. 681 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 1: Now we've got lots of those stories. We've also got 682 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 1: stories in which the dying say, or the people who 683 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: are next to the dying report that the dying say 684 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,880 Speaker 1: just before they die. Particularly the non believers that the 685 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,560 Speaker 1: last of life. I was quite wrong. It's quite different 686 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: from what I thought. So you got a lot of 687 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: those stories. We've got a lot of stories too of 688 00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: people who don't know that a relative has died and 689 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: the relative comes in the deathbed vision and they say 690 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,719 Speaker 1: to them they behave as you would do to a 691 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 1: relative who you don't know has died. Hi, nice to see. 692 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 1: What are you doing here? So you've got a number 693 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 1: of those stories too, which again sort of goes in 694 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 1: with these models which we're putting forward. And finally you 695 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:24,600 Speaker 1: all know this one. Steve Jobs said wow, wow, wow, 696 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 1: as he died, and so you should. If you're going 697 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,960 Speaker 1: into that reality, that's exactly what you'll do. It's very positive, 698 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:36,239 Speaker 1: very very of farming. So with thanks to my colleagues, 699 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: don't forget I like stories, so we have a huge 700 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,399 Speaker 1: bank of stories. Matt, thanks very much. 701 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,839 Speaker 3: Thank you doctor Fenwick for your over fifty years of 702 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 3: service into consciousness. If you go on YouTube you can 703 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 3: find a video called the Final Border Peter Fenwick at 704 00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 3: TEDx Berlin. There's over a million views and close to 705 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,400 Speaker 3: fourteen hundred comments. I want to read to you a 706 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 3: few of them. My ninety year old mother saw her 707 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 3: deceased mother in the dining room of her nursing home 708 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,920 Speaker 3: less than a week before she passed. She told the nurse, 709 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 3: my mother's here. I want to go with her. Another. 710 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 3: Just before my mom died, she had Alzheimer's disease, and 711 00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,920 Speaker 3: she had not spoken a word in five years and 712 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:32,200 Speaker 3: had to be turned in her bed. She suddenly turned 713 00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,760 Speaker 3: on her own and looked up towards where the ceiling 714 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:40,800 Speaker 3: meets the wall and made the wow with her mouth. 715 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 3: She didn't speak in words, but had a look of 716 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,440 Speaker 3: amazement and joy. It was really wonderful to see that happen. 717 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:55,040 Speaker 3: Another My eighty seven year old grandmother was speaking and 718 00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:59,400 Speaker 3: laughing at the ceiling for three days. My grandfather said 719 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,800 Speaker 3: thought she had lost her marbles. My aunt, which was 720 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,520 Speaker 3: her daughter, was the only one who believed my grandmother 721 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,200 Speaker 3: when she said, it's my mom and all the others 722 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 3: they're telling me they're getting things ready for me. She 723 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 3: then passed peacefully. Here's another. A few days before my 724 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:24,680 Speaker 3: father passed away, I had an unusually vivid dream. My 725 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,480 Speaker 3: father's deceased brother visited me. I was so happy to 726 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,680 Speaker 3: see my uncle. He put his arm around my shoulder 727 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,800 Speaker 3: and turned me where he showed me a bright, beautiful 728 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 3: tunnel of light. Then I saw my father walking into 729 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,880 Speaker 3: the tunnel. I looked at my uncle and he was 730 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:47,960 Speaker 3: smiling and so happy and comforting. My father passed away 731 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:54,120 Speaker 3: two days later. Another says, my grandma has never acted 732 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,440 Speaker 3: crazy in her life. She was very down to earth, 733 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,920 Speaker 3: and right before she fell asleep for the last time, 734 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 3: she said that my grandpa had come to get her, 735 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 3: and he told her it's time to go home and 736 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 3: stop talking about being an old lady. Another says, my 737 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,880 Speaker 3: dad said he could see the light and feel the 738 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,560 Speaker 3: love coming for him. He was lucid until the end. 739 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,359 Speaker 3: And another my mother was dying and my brother and 740 00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:28,600 Speaker 3: sister were traveling across three states to get to the hospital. 741 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,680 Speaker 3: My sister got to the hospital and then my brother arrived. 742 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,160 Speaker 3: My mom had been sleeping all day, but then she 743 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,600 Speaker 3: sat up and said, good, you're all here. Then she smiled, 744 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,080 Speaker 3: laid her head back on the pillow, and died. Here's another. 745 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,640 Speaker 3: When my ninety three year old grandmother was dying, my 746 00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,319 Speaker 3: mother visited her. Bertha said to my mom, Betty, you 747 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,600 Speaker 3: should have been here. An amazing cat was here and 748 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,479 Speaker 3: looking at me. He was so beautiful. The next day 749 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,480 Speaker 3: she died. Then many years later I went to see 750 00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,279 Speaker 3: my father in a nursing home. He said, you just 751 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,720 Speaker 3: missed the most amazing thing. A huge and beautiful cat 752 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,160 Speaker 3: was here and gazing at me. And two days later 753 00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,279 Speaker 3: he died. Apparently, in my family you get to see 754 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 3: the cat. And one more, my grandpa saw his brother 755 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,480 Speaker 3: who had passed away twenty years prior, which of course 756 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,279 Speaker 3: made him so happy. From his side of the conversation, 757 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,120 Speaker 3: they were going fishing, which was their favorite activity when 758 00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:39,040 Speaker 3: they were both alive. Grandpa died just a few days later. 759 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:43,000 Speaker 3: It's not easy for us human beings, is it. There's 760 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,880 Speaker 3: a lot of worry in our life, a lot of fear, 761 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 3: there's guilt. What I recommend for all of us is 762 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,920 Speaker 3: spend time listening to these kinds of stories, reading good books, 763 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,600 Speaker 3: but most importantly, talking to our loved ones, keeping them 764 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,160 Speaker 3: part of our lives and included in our lives. The 765 00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,680 Speaker 3: day will come and we'll be able to see that 766 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 3: fifth dimension and realize they've been a part of our 767 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:14,040 Speaker 3: lives all along. Slow down, talk to them and trust 768 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,719 Speaker 3: those loving feelings are coming from them. I want to 769 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 3: remind you to come visit me at We Don'tdie dot com. 770 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,440 Speaker 3: Come to one of our free Sunday gatherings with medium 771 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:27,600 Speaker 3: demonstration included. Come about fifteen minutes early and you can 772 00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:31,759 Speaker 3: say hello, I would love to meet you. I'm Sandra Champlain. 773 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,360 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to Shades of the 774 00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:40,279 Speaker 3: Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal 775 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:41,920 Speaker 3: podcast Network. 776 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,600 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost 777 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,640 Speaker 2: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out 778 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,919 Speaker 2: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going 779 00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,920 Speaker 2: to iHeartRadio dot com. Spils