Speaker 1: I wonder if you could tell me that story about
Speaker 1: the time that sister had to go to the hospital
Speaker 1: and you thought, this is gonna be my chance. So
Speaker 1: one of the sisters she had been in the hospital
Speaker 1: recently and she needed to go back and have a
Speaker 1: check up. It felt like this opportunity fell from heaven
Speaker 1: into my lap and I would I would escape. Why
Speaker 1: why didn't you just walk out, just tell someone I'm leaving,
Speaker 1: and just walk out the door. We always went out
Speaker 1: to buy two We were never allowed just to to
Speaker 1: walk out and do something, so I wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: able to go, you know, more than five or six
Speaker 1: paces before somebody ran up to me and said, where
Speaker 1: are you going? But I knew, because I had been
Speaker 1: in that hospital and was familiar with it, that there
Speaker 1: was a room where there was a collection of clothes
Speaker 1: that the patients had left behind, so I knew where
Speaker 1: that was. I could find myself some clothes there, some
Speaker 1: normal clothes. I thought, I'll drive in with this sister
Speaker 1: who's ill, and then when we get there, I would
Speaker 1: just leave. I would leave her there, and I would
Speaker 1: have at least, you know, a few hours before anybody
Speaker 1: figured out what I had done. So I took some
Speaker 1: phone tokens and I got in the car. Then there
Speaker 1: in that car on the way to the hospital, I
Speaker 1: was perspiring. My hands were clammy, my heart was racing.
Speaker 1: It was so hot. And as we left the city
Speaker 1: and we drove towards the seashore, there was a breeze
Speaker 1: and it started just to feel really nice. And there
Speaker 1: were palm trees, and there was the sky and you
Speaker 1: could see the water off in the distance. It was
Speaker 1: like a breath of freedom. It was like like a
Speaker 1: way to breathe again. And I just wanted more and
Speaker 1: more of that air, that that freedom, that life, that light.
Speaker 1: I thought, this is my chance. I just have to
Speaker 1: take it. There's a box in Mary Johnson's house a
Speaker 1: boxer rarely opens. Well, you know, I've been talking with
Speaker 1: you lately about all of these things, and so I
Speaker 1: brought this box down from the top of my bookcase
Speaker 1: because I think these things do help me remember better
Speaker 1: and get back into the feeling. We all know this box,
Speaker 1: the one full of memories of a version of yourself
Speaker 1: that with time and experience becomes more distant, hard to
Speaker 1: relate to. But we keep these things as proof out
Speaker 1: of you it's there in case we need reminding. Mary's
Speaker 1: box holds mementos from twenty five years ago, a time
Speaker 1: when she was devoted to a different world, an insular
Speaker 1: community that asked her to separate from her family and
Speaker 1: her past, to focus her life on one thing love. Well, first,
Speaker 1: there's this plastic display case like you might get some
Speaker 1: ear rings in or something like that, and underneath it's
Speaker 1: just little tiny pieces of Mother Teresa's hair. Wow, it's
Speaker 1: probably four strands or something. Would you say, Yeah, that
Speaker 1: looks like or strands and they're arranged in a cross shape.
Speaker 1: So I mean, it's the hair of a saint that
Speaker 1: you have in a box on your bookshelves. And it's
Speaker 1: not only hair of a saint. I haven't a box
Speaker 1: on my bookshelf, but the hair of a woman that
Speaker 1: I knew and had a very complicated relationship with. Mary
Speaker 1: Johnson has these strands of hair and her keeps a box.
Speaker 1: Because she made a vow, a vow to devote herself
Speaker 1: to serving the poor and God. She became a religious
Speaker 1: sister with the Missionaries of Charity, the Catholic Order formed
Speaker 1: by Mother Teresa. So I did spend a lot more
Speaker 1: time alone with her than most sisters had the opportunity
Speaker 1: to do. And I loved her. I loved her deeply.
Speaker 1: Mother Teresa helping the poorest of the poor, Revered by
Speaker 1: popes and president's queens and princesses. Practically anything that's known
Speaker 1: about her is shouted in mystery and myth. Though fiercely private,
Speaker 1: the small nun in a white and blue sorry became
Speaker 1: an icon, and thousands of women abandoned their previous lives
Speaker 1: to follow her. We were to love the unlovable. If
Speaker 1: you feel God is asking you to do something, it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter how hard it is. She was so close
Speaker 1: to God, and you knew it. When she was there,
Speaker 1: everything changed, you know. I heard about Mother Teresa when
Speaker 1: I was a kid. She seems like the ultimate example
Speaker 1: of selflessness, of someone who saw poverty and actually did
Speaker 1: something about it. She seemed like this perfect person with
Speaker 1: a simple message. But the more people I've talked to,
Speaker 1: the more I've realized how little I understood her, how
Speaker 1: unusual her spirituality actually was, how her legacy was filled
Speaker 1: with controversy, and how thorny and complicated her order could
Speaker 1: be for the people inside it. The order was wired
Speaker 1: that you had very little time to think you're only
Speaker 1: getting input from one source, You're oscillated from everyone else.
Speaker 1: That's what I mean by Brian washing. They become the
Speaker 1: voice of God for you, That's all they keep saying.
Speaker 1: Under your valive obedience. Right. One doesn't always know where
Speaker 1: to draw the line between religion and cult. When Mary
Speaker 1: was nineteen years old, she dropped out of college and
Speaker 1: joined Mother Teresa's Order of Nuns. There was no legal contract,
Speaker 1: nothing physical that bound her to the group. She could
Speaker 1: leave at any time, but from the beginning she was
Speaker 1: convinced there was no turning back. As she went deeper,
Speaker 1: she learned more secrets about this way of life. She
Speaker 1: saw vows taken to extremes. She felt the rigidity of rules.
Speaker 1: How separate the society, this culture, this world really was.
Speaker 1: Many former sisters like Mary entered the Order seeking love
Speaker 1: and purpose, only to lose themselves along the way, And
Speaker 1: it was a long road back. My story is the
Speaker 1: story of a woman who disappoints the most admired woman
Speaker 1: in the world. From a Coco Punch and I Heart Media,
Speaker 1: this is the turning I'm Erica Llance Part one, No
Speaker 1: turning back. Mother Teresa was busy as usual saving the world.
Speaker 1: And I mean that quite literally. Ronald Reagan's in front
Speaker 1: of the French doors of the West wing of the
Speaker 1: White House. Her Order of the Missionaries of Charity has
Speaker 1: spread throughout the world, serving the poorest of the poor.
Speaker 1: Mother Teresa stands beside him and her white and blue
Speaker 1: sorry a foot shorter than he is. Mother Rasa is
Speaker 1: a heroine of our times. And to the many honors
Speaker 1: she has received, including the Nobel Peace Prize, we add
Speaker 1: with deep affection and endless respect, the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
Speaker 1: I am most unworthy of this generous gift of her,
Speaker 1: President Sagan and his wife and new people of United States.
Speaker 1: But I accepted for the greater glory of God and
Speaker 1: in the name of the millions of poor people. But
Speaker 1: this gift in spirit and in love will penetrate the
Speaker 1: hearts of the people, for in giving it to me,
Speaker 1: you are giving it to them. Mother Teresa founded her
Speaker 1: Congregation of Sisters and Calcutta, India in ninety She called
Speaker 1: them the Missionaries of Charity MCS for short, and she
Speaker 1: became famous for tending to what she called the poorest
Speaker 1: of the poor, especially in her home for the dying.
Speaker 1: She explained her mission with a Bible passage. Jesus said,
Speaker 1: I was hungry and you gave me to eat. I
Speaker 1: was naked, you clothed me. I was homeless and you
Speaker 1: took me in. I was seeking in prison, and you
Speaker 1: visited me, and you took care of me. Mother Teresa's
Speaker 1: Missionaries of Charity believe that each sick person on the
Speaker 1: street is Jesus and disguise, that's the same Jesus in
Speaker 1: the distressing disguise of the poor. The Missionaries of Charity
Speaker 1: are still headquartered in Calcutta, but Mother Teresa expanded her
Speaker 1: mission far beyond Indi You. She founded convents in other countries,
Speaker 1: and she created new MC branches for fathers and for brothers.
Speaker 1: As her order grew, so did Mother Teresa's fame. People
Speaker 1: loved her message. She spoke of love, of having compassion
Speaker 1: for everyone, of doing your small part to help others.
Speaker 1: It's a message that appealed to Mary Johnson. Mary grew
Speaker 1: up in Michigan and Texas in a Catholic family. She
Speaker 1: was the oldest of seven kids, and at a young
Speaker 1: age she had a special relationship with a higher power.
Speaker 1: I had always found church to be something I enjoyed
Speaker 1: if it didn't last too long. I enjoyed Catholic school
Speaker 1: when I was in class, but on the playground at
Speaker 1: lunch time, I really have many friends, and so I
Speaker 1: would find someplace on the distant side of the playground
Speaker 1: and I would just talk to God. And I think
Speaker 1: that's kind of where it started for me. In second grade,
Speaker 1: Mary's teacher told the class to write about what they
Speaker 1: wanted to be when they grew up. Boys, you could
Speaker 1: be fireman, you could be doctors, you could be policemen.
Speaker 1: And she gave this long list of careers possibilities, and
Speaker 1: then she said, girls, you could be nurses or teachers.
Speaker 1: So right your, I say, now, I didn't know what
Speaker 1: to do because I wanted to be either an archaeologist
Speaker 1: or the director of the New York Philharmonic. I used
Speaker 1: to watch Leonard Bernstein on television and I just loved that,
Speaker 1: and I thought it was just the best thing in
Speaker 1: the world, Just two options for girls neither interested. Mary.
Speaker 1: Here's what she wrote in the end, when I grow up,
Speaker 1: I will be whatever God wants me to be. I
Speaker 1: have figured that way. God has lending more possibilities, and
Speaker 1: he said than the sister does, and so I I thought,
Speaker 1: that's that's it. But somehow it wasn't just an essay
Speaker 1: for me. It was like a pact. It was like, Okay, God,
Speaker 1: you show me what you want, and I will do
Speaker 1: that thing. When Mary was twelve years old, her parents
Speaker 1: got in to charismatic Catholicism. They were pretty involved in it.
Speaker 1: The local group often met at their house. They'd pray
Speaker 1: and speak and sing in tongues. But Mary didn't quite
Speaker 1: connect with that type of spirituality. She waited for her
Speaker 1: own message from God. In high school, Barry joined the
Speaker 1: debate team. She wrote for the high school newspaper, and
Speaker 1: then when she was a senior, the message arrived. And
Speaker 1: I was walking past our library, which had glass windows,
Speaker 1: and I saw a cover of Time magazine and there
Speaker 1: was this face of this wrinkled nun with a with
Speaker 1: a white veil with blue stripes, and she had these
Speaker 1: eyes and and I took the magazine from the shelf
Speaker 1: and I started reading in the ball rang for French class.
Speaker 1: And I didn't care. I just sat there and I
Speaker 1: read about this not in Calcutta, who was doing these
Speaker 1: fantastic things with taking in dyeing people and caring for them.
Speaker 1: She was attracted to the mcs focus on love and
Speaker 1: working with the poor, but it was their commitment to
Speaker 1: the vow of poverty to live like those they were
Speaker 1: serving that grabbed her. I mean, the Missionaries of Charity
Speaker 1: took poverty really seriously. And one of the places in
Speaker 1: the Bible where Jesus talks about poverty is during that
Speaker 1: Sermon on the mount when he says, stop worrying about everything.
Speaker 1: Look at the birds of the air, Look at the
Speaker 1: lilies of the field. See how your heavenly Father takes
Speaker 1: care of them. He knows what they need me make
Speaker 1: sure they get it. It's going to be less for you.
Speaker 1: He has every hair on your head counted. What do
Speaker 1: you think He's gonna let disaster strike? No, no, just
Speaker 1: just consider the lilies. The article just pulled her in
Speaker 1: like nothing before. This was like my whole heart on fire.
Speaker 1: And I really felt like that was God talking to me.
Speaker 1: And by the time I got up, I said, this
Speaker 1: is what I gotta do, and I went home and
Speaker 1: started writing letters and trying to figure it out. Mary
Speaker 1: wrote to Mother Teresa and asked to join her order.
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of that impulsivity of a teenager.
Speaker 1: It was the summer of nine when Mary arrived in
Speaker 1: New York City. She made her way through the city
Speaker 1: to a new life as a missionary of charity. I'd
Speaker 1: never been in a big city like that before. Um
Speaker 1: enormous buildings and wide streets, and all of these people
Speaker 1: out on the streets, so many cars, so much action,
Speaker 1: and it was exciting. Mary was headed to the Bronx.
Speaker 1: That's where the main empty house in the United States is,
Speaker 1: and it's where she joined you sisters in training. She
Speaker 1: carried a cardboard box tied with string. It held two
Speaker 1: skirts and two blouses. That's all the sisters said she'd need.
Speaker 1: New York was a different place. In the summer of
Speaker 1: s a widespread blackout shut down the city and led
Speaker 1: to looting. It had nearly gone bankrupt just two years before.
Speaker 1: Landlords were setting fire to their own buildings to cash
Speaker 1: in on insurance, and one of the biggest man hunts
Speaker 1: in New York City history was on for the son
Speaker 1: of Sam, serial killer who was shooting and murdering young women.
Speaker 1: But when Mary arrived, but she noticed was the energy.
Speaker 1: I do remember very clearly emerging from the subway station there,
Speaker 1: and walking into all of this sounds Spanish music, Spanish speaking.
Speaker 1: I see mangoes on the on the sidewalk there in
Speaker 1: front of the fruit stand, and just all the excitement
Speaker 1: and the energy of the South Brown in the summer
Speaker 1: of nineteen seven. There were these groups, especially of young
Speaker 1: men and older boys, gathered around boom boxes and doing
Speaker 1: these enormous gymnastic moves. Is very, very impressive breakdancing, and
Speaker 1: I just feeling like I had walked into a completely
Speaker 1: different world than the one I'd known. The convent looked
Speaker 1: like any other house in the area, a simple brick building.
Speaker 1: So I ring the doorbell and wait a little while,
Speaker 1: and wait a little while, and then finally sister Rochelle
Speaker 1: comes down. She welcomes me with a big smile, and
Speaker 1: she knows my name, and she knows what I'm there for.
Speaker 1: They've been waiting for me. And I went inside and
Speaker 1: everything inside was quiet. Rossell whispered to me and she says, welcome,
Speaker 1: and she says, let's go say hello to Jesus. After
Speaker 1: a quick stop to pray in the chapel, they climbed
Speaker 1: the stairs to the refectory, the room where they did
Speaker 1: most everything they ate their meals in the refectory, studied
Speaker 1: how to be a sister in the refectory. Inside was
Speaker 1: applywood table, two benches at a stool. I was kind
Speaker 1: of amazed at how there it was, how minimal it was.
Speaker 1: On the wall hung side by side images of Mother
Speaker 1: Teresa and Jesus. There was also a plaque with the
Speaker 1: motto for new Sisters, a quote from the Gospel of John.
Speaker 1: Jesus must increase and I must decrease. Then Sister Rochelle
Speaker 1: showed her the dormitory, a sacred space that must stay silent.
Speaker 1: They were never to speak inside it. It was one
Speaker 1: room with thirteen cots and they were really close together,
Speaker 1: just enough room between them to get into bed. Mary
Speaker 1: was excited for this unadorned life. Things can weigh you
Speaker 1: down so much, and there was a sense of freedom
Speaker 1: to it. How are you going to get along with
Speaker 1: just these few little things? And but it's it's nice.
Speaker 1: It's the lilies of the field and the birds of
Speaker 1: the air don't need much. Mary arrived in time for adoration.
Speaker 1: She and the other sisters filed into a pewless chapel.
Speaker 1: They knelt in rose and put their heads to the floor.
Speaker 1: The center of this life was God. Nothing else mattered
Speaker 1: in the way that those moments of prayer did that time,
Speaker 1: that time with God, they're chanting mixed with the sounds
Speaker 1: from outside backfiring cars, boom boxes. She felt like she'd
Speaker 1: entered a distant, peaceful planet she didn't understand. She prayed
Speaker 1: she'd have the strength for this life. At dinner that night,
Speaker 1: Mary and her twelve new sisters gathered around that plywood
Speaker 1: refectory table and stair. Carmeline said, Praise be Jesus Christ,
Speaker 1: and everybody there started clapping their hands and singings, we welcome,
Speaker 1: welcome sister, We welcome, welcome sister, We welcome, welcome sister
Speaker 1: from our heart um, just as they had song to
Speaker 1: each new sister who arrived, and would continue to sing
Speaker 1: to each one after me. When a woman enters the
Speaker 1: Missionaries of Charity, she starts as an aspirant. Mary's aspiancy
Speaker 1: would last six months. She wore a conservative blouse and skirt.
Speaker 1: The white sorry would come later. She quickly learns that
Speaker 1: days in the Missionaries of Charity were strictly regimented. A
Speaker 1: bell rang to signal time for a new task. The
Speaker 1: bell marked absolutely everything we did, and whenever it rang,
Speaker 1: whatever it rang, Mother told us we were to stop
Speaker 1: immediately doing whatever we were doing, because the bell was
Speaker 1: the voice of God. The sisters had a tight timetable.
Speaker 1: Wake up at four or forty in the morning, pray,
Speaker 1: make beds, clean the house only twenty minutes for that,
Speaker 1: wash clothes by hand at ten, mass, eat breakfast all
Speaker 1: before eight o'clock, then go out to work in the community.
Speaker 1: There was also the kneeling and praying hours of it
Speaker 1: every day. I loved the fact that prayer was so
Speaker 1: central to the lives of the missionaries of Charity, but
Speaker 1: my knees hurt like hell. There were times for spiritual
Speaker 1: reading and instruction, and they got thirty minutes of what
Speaker 1: they called recreation, basically when they all sat in the
Speaker 1: refectory and caught up on work like mending clothes. The
Speaker 1: aspirants reported to a mistress in charge, the aspiring mistress.
Speaker 1: She taught them how to follow the rules. I was
Speaker 1: under very close scrutiny, and my aspirment mistress would correct
Speaker 1: every mistake she saw, and she'd do it publicly, and
Speaker 1: she'd do it loudly, kind of like the drill sergeant
Speaker 1: the idea behind the mission of Charity training is just
Speaker 1: like like military training, to break you down into nothing.
Speaker 1: This is Kelly Dunham. She also joined the Missionaries of
Speaker 1: Charity and began her training in the same convent as Mary,
Speaker 1: but seventeen years later. In those first months, it seemed
Speaker 1: like the whole idea was to make you feel as
Speaker 1: alone as possible, with the idea that you would depend
Speaker 1: only on God. Kelly says that like in boot camp,
Speaker 1: you did what you were told, whether or not it
Speaker 1: made sense to you. She struggled with that, but she
Speaker 1: loved the moments of beauty working as a group for
Speaker 1: a cause and their nightly songs. After evening prayer, all
Speaker 1: of the sisters would walk outside and stand around ound
Speaker 1: a statue of Mary, the Mother of Jesus. Then you
Speaker 1: sing a little song to Mary and everyone does like
Speaker 1: a little silent prayer and usually touches the statue. I think,
Speaker 1: on the feet and then goes up. Created a moment,
Speaker 1: a moment of honoring something bigger than yourself. And it's
Speaker 1: just like by candle lights, right, so it's actually extremely
Speaker 1: like poignant and it's a moment right like it's a
Speaker 1: moment I still can almost get tearful thinking about that.
Speaker 1: And I can remember one night we were all standing
Speaker 1: around the statue of Mary with all the sisters, their
Speaker 1: faces reflected lighted up by just the candle light, and
Speaker 1: I remember thinking, Oh, man, I get to be with
Speaker 1: all these beautiful women the rest of my life. Mary
Speaker 1: Johnson had been in the convent for two weeks when
Speaker 1: there is a big announcement Mother Teresa was coming. We
Speaker 1: got so excited, you know, we just shouted there, just
Speaker 1: oh so excited. She told us during dinner. So it
Speaker 1: was the time when we could speak, and we did.
Speaker 1: Mary couldn't believe she'd finally meet this woman people called
Speaker 1: a living saint. You know. I'd heard about saints. Some
Speaker 1: of saints had these abilities where they could read people's souls.
Speaker 1: If she was like that, she probably wouldn't like me,
Speaker 1: I thought. And the other thing I was scared about
Speaker 1: was what would happen if it turned out I didn't
Speaker 1: like her. I decided what I would do was I
Speaker 1: would go to the top of the staircase because Mother
Speaker 1: Streets would come in the front door, and if I
Speaker 1: positioned myself just right on those stairs, I'd be able
Speaker 1: to see her and when the door opened and Mother
Speaker 1: was the first one to come in, and I saw
Speaker 1: her there, this this tiny, short woman with so many wrinkles,
Speaker 1: and she just looked so small and so determined. And
Speaker 1: the aspirants who had been waiting, and we're down there
Speaker 1: on that floor, Oh, Mother, Mother, and they were saying things,
Speaker 1: and she was like, let me say hello to Jesus. First,
Speaker 1: Mother must say hello to Jesus. It was the first
Speaker 1: time I heard her talk about herself in the third person,
Speaker 1: which was something she did all the time. But I
Speaker 1: didn't know that then, I thought. Mother Teresa looked utterly
Speaker 1: focused as she took off her sandals and walked to
Speaker 1: the chapel. Then she knelt to pray. I had never
Speaker 1: seen anyone somehow that connected with God. I felt that
Speaker 1: something holy was happening there. One day, Mother Teresa sat
Speaker 1: down at the aspiran's table to talk with the young
Speaker 1: women entering her order. She shared a clear message, one
Speaker 1: that would reverberate in Mary's mind for the next twenty years.
Speaker 1: God called you to come here. Jesus did not call
Speaker 1: your sister, did not call your neighbor. Jesus called you
Speaker 1: to be here. And she said God has called you.
Speaker 1: You must be faithful for life, or pack up and
Speaker 1: go home right now. And she was so clear and
Speaker 1: so strong and not a little bit scary. And she
Speaker 1: was saying, just to people who had been there for
Speaker 1: for two weeks basically, and I hadn't figured it out yet.
Speaker 1: You didn't know exactly did God call me? That's a
Speaker 1: very amorphous question. But Mother was sure. She said, you're here.
Speaker 1: That means God called you here, and now you must
Speaker 1: be faithful for life. She brought the twelve aspirants to
Speaker 1: the chapel and had the kneel in a row at
Speaker 1: the front. Then she went down the line and gave
Speaker 1: them each a crucifix. She brought the crucifix to each
Speaker 1: sister's lips for a kiss. She pressed that crucifix so
Speaker 1: strongly against my lips that you know, it's like you
Speaker 1: can hardly respond with any sort of kiss because she
Speaker 1: pushes it there and then she pulls it away. Mother
Speaker 1: did everything forcefully, wholeheartedly. You know, you feel that kind
Speaker 1: of electricity when something special is happening, where your whole
Speaker 1: body just kind of tingles and feels alive. And at
Speaker 1: the same time, there was a kind of a I
Speaker 1: think the reluctance wasn't so much in my body. The
Speaker 1: reluctance was more in my mind. But physically I was
Speaker 1: very excited. I was kind of full. And I remember
Speaker 1: whenever Mother spoke, just being so taken in by her
Speaker 1: words and by her conviction and by the power of
Speaker 1: her own belief, that you really just looked at her
Speaker 1: and could not look away. Okay, now I have to
Speaker 1: be a better person than I have ever been in
Speaker 1: my whole life. The bar has been raised. When Mother
Speaker 1: Teresa told Mary and the other aspirants that they were chosen,
Speaker 1: she said it came with a lifelong commitment. It was
Speaker 1: like a marriage. They must be faithful to God and
Speaker 1: their vows. All Catholic nuns take vows of poverty, chastity,
Speaker 1: and obedience. Mother Teresa added a fourth vow for her sisters,
Speaker 1: the vow of wholehearted and free service to the poorest
Speaker 1: of the poor. Mother Teresa said, to succeed in your vows,
Speaker 1: you just need to do one thing. Follow the constitutions.
Speaker 1: That's the governing document of the missionaries of charity. Legend
Speaker 1: was that early on, while everyone slept, Mother Teresa wrote
Speaker 1: the constitutions by candle light. Then the Vatican authorized it
Speaker 1: as an infallible path to holiness. The Constitutions laid out
Speaker 1: a life of love and service in the extreme that
Speaker 1: the attraction is really that life of sacrifice. You want
Speaker 1: to do something different, you want to do something radical,
Speaker 1: even if it's very conservative, it's also very radical to
Speaker 1: do this. The Aspirans had a daily rule class taught
Speaker 1: by the mistress. Mary's mistress wore glasses. She was short
Speaker 1: and stern. Sister calmly sat on her little stool at
Speaker 1: the head of the table, and she passed out the
Speaker 1: Constitution books, page to open to, which number on that
Speaker 1: page to read, and we'd read it together, and then
Speaker 1: we'd close the books. And then at the end of
Speaker 1: class she would collect them. And it's kind of like,
Speaker 1: I knew there were things in that book she did
Speaker 1: not want us to see it as curious about those.
Speaker 1: Gradually Mary learned the rules from her mistress. She learned
Speaker 1: how to walk briskly, quickly, you don't want to waste
Speaker 1: any time, but not like wild elephants. How to talk.
Speaker 1: We weren't supposed to talk about really anything that went
Speaker 1: on outside, you know, whether it was books or movies,
Speaker 1: how to wear her hair and make a ponytail like
Speaker 1: decent girls. How to keep custody of the eyes. We
Speaker 1: weren't supposed to be looking around at anything really um,
Speaker 1: but especially not billboards or newsstands. Even how to fall
Speaker 1: the napkin always in a triangle with an extra part
Speaker 1: hanging down. And that was that triangle is the Trinity.
Speaker 1: I should think of the Trinity every time you fold
Speaker 1: it in this particular way. Your superior was considered the
Speaker 1: direct voice of God, and the vow of obedience meant
Speaker 1: obey your superior without question. Any time a superior entered
Speaker 1: the room, we were all to stand and to sit
Speaker 1: only when she sat or indicated in some other way
Speaker 1: that we should sit. Then there was the vow of poverty.
Speaker 1: Pretty Much all Catholic nuns take avow of poverty, but
Speaker 1: Mother Teresa took it a step further. She explained it
Speaker 1: in an interview on Irish TV. If you really want
Speaker 1: to know the poor, we must know what is poverty,
Speaker 1: and that's why not society. Poverty is our freedom and
Speaker 1: our strength. The missionaries of Charity relied on donations and
Speaker 1: divine providence, and over the years the Order received large
Speaker 1: donations millions of dollars worth because of the interest their
Speaker 1: work inspired. But the sisters lived meager live regardless of
Speaker 1: how much money the organization raised. They lived as though
Speaker 1: they didn't have any for the sake of their vow.
Speaker 1: The life of poverty of the Missionaries of Charity is
Speaker 1: is um is a very poor life. It is a
Speaker 1: poor life, This is Sister Kathleen Hughes. I remember my
Speaker 1: first breakfast in London. I never forget. It was kind
Speaker 1: of moldy bread, and then we got the airport cheeses
Speaker 1: from the air you know, somebody would bring us these
Speaker 1: little individual cheeses from the planes, you see, and and
Speaker 1: they were over ripe by the time we got them.
Speaker 1: So I had a mouthful of moldy bread and this
Speaker 1: over ripe Commembert cheese. And I remember saying to the Lord,
Speaker 1: is every breakfast for the rest of my life going
Speaker 1: to be like this? Oh? No, it was an initiation.
Speaker 1: It was a test. The mission is a charity. Don't
Speaker 1: have fans or air conditioners. That's kindly Dunham again. And
Speaker 1: in the Bronx at that time, we weren't even opening
Speaker 1: the windows during the night, you know, So it was
Speaker 1: really really hot, so we didn't wear deodorant. We're wearing
Speaker 1: like three or four layers between the outside, so even
Speaker 1: when you sweated, it didn't make you cooler because it
Speaker 1: wasn't evaporating, was just getting trapped by the outside layer. Um.
Speaker 1: And I remember saying to the sisters like, we don't
Speaker 1: smell very good, and she's like, oh, such a blessing
Speaker 1: to help with chastity. No. Mother Teresa was very concerned
Speaker 1: about maintaining the vow of chastity, really almost to the
Speaker 1: point of paranoia about it, and she passed then on
Speaker 1: to everybody else in rural class. Mary learned chastity meant
Speaker 1: more than not having sex for missionaries of charity, and
Speaker 1: meant no touching period. The sisters should never touch each
Speaker 1: other and the people they cared for. Mother Teresa said,
Speaker 1: touch them as little as possible. She would say, sometimes,
Speaker 1: of course it's necessary. You have to touch the babies,
Speaker 1: you have to feed the babies. But as soon as
Speaker 1: that baby is sped, you put that baby down. The
Speaker 1: vow of chastity is why talking was so controlled, To
Speaker 1: make sure sisters didn't get too close. They could only
Speaker 1: talk at approved times, usually when they were all together.
Speaker 1: When sisters walked outside the convent, always in twos, they
Speaker 1: didn't talk. Instead, they prayed the Rosary. Allowed together, on sidewalks,
Speaker 1: on busses, everywhere, you could not have a friend. This
Speaker 1: was very specifically prohibited. They call it particular friendship. If
Speaker 1: if somebody saw you getting kind of closer to one
Speaker 1: sister than to another, you would be called out on it.
Speaker 1: They were. They were afraid that if if you got
Speaker 1: too close to somebody, everybody else would feel excluded. And
Speaker 1: then the other fear was that particular friendship was kind
Speaker 1: of a name for like relationships of a homosexual nature.
Speaker 1: If you got too close to somebody, it was really
Speaker 1: you were playing with fire. I'm cutting in here right
Speaker 1: now because I think for a story like this, it's
Speaker 1: important for you to know where I'm coming from. And
Speaker 1: to do that, I'd like to introduce you to someone.
Speaker 1: Her name is Allen so High. I'm Ailan, and I'm
Speaker 1: your sister Erica, like actual sister, not religious sister. And
Speaker 1: over the past year we've actually been working on this
Speaker 1: podcast together. We've been producing it together. I'm curious. I mean,
Speaker 1: when I called you and asked you to work on
Speaker 1: this project, what did you think? I thought, you know what,
Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense. Really. I think it's because,
Speaker 1: you know, we went to Catholic school when we were young,
Speaker 1: even though we weren't Catholic, and we had nuns as teachers,
Speaker 1: and I think you really looked up to the America. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I looked up to them, and I was also really
Speaker 1: interested in them. Remember they lived in a house like
Speaker 1: right by the school. We it was down the drive
Speaker 1: from the school. We'd passed it every day. It was white. Yeah,
Speaker 1: whenever we went past that house, I would look at
Speaker 1: it and just wonder what their lives were like in
Speaker 1: that house, Like what are the rooms they're sleeping in?
Speaker 1: How did they become nuns? Like? How do you make
Speaker 1: that choice? It's weird to look back, but I actually
Speaker 1: think in second grade I made a list of all
Speaker 1: the things I wanted to be when I grew up,
Speaker 1: which was a really long list, but one of the
Speaker 1: things I included was to be a nun. Which is
Speaker 1: strange to think back on now, but I was really
Speaker 1: taken with them. Yeah, you were. I kind of feel like,
Speaker 1: in a way this podcast, it's like I'm getting to
Speaker 1: look inside that house, you know. Hm. You know. That's
Speaker 1: one reason I wanted to work on it with you,
Speaker 1: because you have a PhD in psychology and you're really
Speaker 1: interested in the extremes of human behavior and why people
Speaker 1: do what they do. And I feel like that's a
Speaker 1: big part of this too, because the missionaries and charity,
Speaker 1: it's an intense way of life. Yeah, when I first
Speaker 1: heard about this story, I thought there would be a
Speaker 1: lot of beautiful moments and also how life is an
Speaker 1: m C is difficult at times, you know, But I
Speaker 1: guess what we ended up finding is there was a
Speaker 1: lot more darkness than I realized. M And you know,
Speaker 1: just hearing these women talk about even how years after
Speaker 1: leaving they were having nightmares about times as an MC.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just hard to grapple with all that.
Speaker 1: It's just hard to keep all the beautiful stories and
Speaker 1: all the dark ones in my head at once, and
Speaker 1: so I'm constantly changing how I feel about this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a lot more complicated than I thought. Early on,
Speaker 1: maybe a week into Mary's time at the convent, she
Speaker 1: saw what it was like to be on the wrong
Speaker 1: end of her rule. It was the end of the day,
Speaker 1: so Mary took her nightly shower. Then she walked out
Speaker 1: of the bathing room. So I'm there with my bucket
Speaker 1: full of my dirty clothes. I'm wearing my night dress,
Speaker 1: and I would walk out the door and immediately standing
Speaker 1: right there so I can't even move, is sister Carmeline.
Speaker 1: And then she says, Sister Mary, you took the shower.
Speaker 1: I said, yes, sister, and she says, and you did
Speaker 1: it last night too. I heard the water falling. You
Speaker 1: took the shower, yes, sister, having you no shame? I mean,
Speaker 1: it was really She was getting very upset. She ended
Speaker 1: up calling me all sorts of names that I was
Speaker 1: vain and lazy and immodest. And I could not figure
Speaker 1: this out. What on earth had I done that was wrong?
Speaker 1: The water coming from the shower head was cold water.
Speaker 1: I hadn't broken poverty by turning on the hot one.
Speaker 1: I hadn't taken very long. I was really pretty quick
Speaker 1: about it. I couldn't understand. Earlier that day, Sister Carmeline
Speaker 1: had taught the aspirants how to respond when corrected. You're
Speaker 1: supposed to stay silent, never talked back, and only speak
Speaker 1: when it's clear your superior is done. Then there was
Speaker 1: only one thing you could say, thank you, sister, Sorry, sister.
Speaker 1: And so all the while my mind is racing, trying
Speaker 1: to figure out what on earth I've done wrong. At
Speaker 1: the same time, this instruction is coming back. Stand there silent,
Speaker 1: like Jesus before Pilot, sister Carmeline had said. And even
Speaker 1: that morning that had caused a little confusion for me,
Speaker 1: because I knew before Pilot Jesus did not stand silent.
Speaker 1: Jesus and Pilot had a conversation, and Jesus talks about
Speaker 1: the truth. Pilot asked, what's what is truth? There's there's
Speaker 1: this dialogue between them. Jesus was silent before King Herod
Speaker 1: when he was brought before him. But at the end
Speaker 1: I could only say those five words, thank you, sister, Sorry, sister.
Speaker 1: The next morning, Mary asked another sister what she's done wrong.
Speaker 1: Mcs don't take showers. She said, instead, you're supposed to
Speaker 1: pour water over yourself with a tin can. And then
Speaker 1: at the end I just said thank you and just
Speaker 1: kind of tapped her on the arm, and she got
Speaker 1: so furious she said, no, don't touch, don't touch you know,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I can't do anything right. Mary
Speaker 1: started her training with eleven other women. Six months later,
Speaker 1: only she and one other aspirant remained. Each time my
Speaker 1: sister left it felt abrupt. They'd only find out about
Speaker 1: it after the fact from their mistress, no explanation, just
Speaker 1: that they'd left. The remaining sisters didn't get to say goodbye,
Speaker 1: and they weren't allowed to talk about it. It made
Speaker 1: Mary wonder about her own vocation. Inside of me, there
Speaker 1: were all these questions about so what does it mean
Speaker 1: to be called? And how do you know if you're called?
Speaker 1: Mary prayed over and over to know whether she should
Speaker 1: go home or stay, and it just always came back
Speaker 1: to this, this tug, this poll to come and join
Speaker 1: Mother Teresa in following Jesus. It was like, yes, this
Speaker 1: is what I was meant to do. This is it.
Speaker 1: Mary finished her aspirancy, so she was ready for the
Speaker 1: next step. And I should say there are a lot
Speaker 1: of steps to become an m C or any kind
Speaker 1: of nun. They each have different names and it can
Speaker 1: get confusing, but don't worry about it. I'll help you
Speaker 1: along the way. Basically, first year in training, then for
Speaker 1: a while you take vows that last a year, and
Speaker 1: finally you take lifelong vows. But Mary says, even before
Speaker 1: those final vows, Mother Teresa believed you were committed for life.
Speaker 1: Any urge to leave was the devil's temptation. Yes, in
Speaker 1: the book it says you take your vows for one year,
Speaker 1: but you know in your heart you do not tell
Speaker 1: Jesus yes for one year, you say yes for your
Speaker 1: entire life. I think Mother Teresa took everything to its
Speaker 1: most radical conclusion. It's a lot of pressure for anyone,
Speaker 1: especially a teenager. At this point, Mary was ready to
Speaker 1: become what's called a postulant, and for that she was
Speaker 1: sent to Rome. I arrived in Rome at the beginning
Speaker 1: of night. I was still nineteen years old. Rome was
Speaker 1: full of life and history. The Colosseum, the Roman Forum,
Speaker 1: the Pantheon, they were all nearby. At the time. The
Speaker 1: city was in turmoil too, fights in the streets, new
Speaker 1: divorce and abortion laws that led to protests. But Mary's
Speaker 1: life centered around the convent at the San Gregorio Church.
Speaker 1: A little world inside this bustling city. Across a gravel
Speaker 1: yard and through a gate was the convent, a block
Speaker 1: of low cement buildings. As a postulant, she still wore
Speaker 1: her own skirt and blouse. No sorry. Yet whenever she
Speaker 1: felt overwhelmed, she remembered Mother's words, you're here. That means
Speaker 1: God called you here, and now you must be faithful
Speaker 1: for life. After postulancy, Mary became a novice, and that
Speaker 1: meant it was time to take a new name. Once
Speaker 1: she picked for herself sister Donat don it and freely given.
Speaker 1: There is also a ceremony. Mary and seven other sisters
Speaker 1: lined up in a chapel in front of Mother Teresa.
Speaker 1: One by one, Mother called the sisters by their new names.
Speaker 1: When Mary heard Mother Teresa call her new name, Sister Donata,
Speaker 1: it felt like a wave crested over her. It carried
Speaker 1: away Mary, the postulant who struggled with all the rules.
Speaker 1: And so I suppose in that since my old self
Speaker 1: was decreasing, Mother handed her new clothes. In a few moments,
Speaker 1: Mary's skirt and blouse would be gone forever, replaced by
Speaker 1: the white saries of the Missionaries of Charity. Mother had
Speaker 1: Mary kissed the habit. She said, let the world be
Speaker 1: nothing to you, and you nothing to the world. Then
Speaker 1: a sister handed Mother Teresa a pair of scissors to
Speaker 1: take the first snip of Mary's hair. Mother Teresa cut
Speaker 1: off just one little lock of hair, laid it on
Speaker 1: a tray. Another sister cut off Mary's ponytail. They were
Speaker 1: all singing this song, I have decided to follow Jesus.
Speaker 1: I have decided to follow Jesus. I have decided to
Speaker 1: follow Jesuss No turning back, no turning back. And we
Speaker 1: got dressed in our new clothes. And then as we
Speaker 1: were leaving to go back into the chapel, we were
Speaker 1: given that ponytail to hold into our hands, and we
Speaker 1: were told that this is like the bouquet of flowers
Speaker 1: that a young bride would carry to her wedding. And
Speaker 1: so we brought that ponytail, holding it in our hands,
Speaker 1: and laid it there in front of the altar and
Speaker 1: a little basket that us there. After the ceremony, Mother
Speaker 1: Teresa ate dinner with the new novices. Mother explained that
Speaker 1: cutting their hair was a sign of a sacred commitment
Speaker 1: to God. Once dinner was over, grand silence began, like
Speaker 1: every evening, no talking aloud until breakfast the next day.
Speaker 1: But that night something unusual happened, without anyone saying a word.
Speaker 1: One of the sisters began to pull each of us
Speaker 1: new novices aside, and then she signed to us that
Speaker 1: we should follow her, and we went into a back room.
Speaker 1: A fire was burning and so the room was quite hot.
Speaker 1: The ceremony wasn't over yet, no one spoke. There were
Speaker 1: four stools in the middle of the room. There were
Speaker 1: eight of us novices waiting there wondering what on earth
Speaker 1: was going on. And then the first four got motioned
Speaker 1: to sit on the stools. The professed sisters held scissors.
Speaker 1: All Mary watched. They were moved to the novice's headpieces.
Speaker 1: They trained what was left of their hair, cutting it
Speaker 1: shorter and shorter and shorter down to the scalp. The
Speaker 1: sisters were saying, Hail Mary, full of grace, and we
Speaker 1: were answering, Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us.
Speaker 1: And I remember one was had had tears in her
Speaker 1: eyes as her hair was falling, and others are just
Speaker 1: kind of sitting there with their eyes shut as tight
Speaker 1: as they could. That was kind of kind of frightening
Speaker 1: to see it all happened all at once like that.
Speaker 1: It became very real. Then it was Mary's turn to
Speaker 1: sit on a stool and cutting started. There's very little
Speaker 1: hair there, there's and now there's less, and there's less,
Speaker 1: until there was really just just nothing, as close as
Speaker 1: you could get with a pair of scissors. After it
Speaker 1: was done, someone handed Mary a bucket of water. She
Speaker 1: took it to the bathing room to wash herself. Just
Speaker 1: as I was finishing my bath, at this horrible smell
Speaker 1: came through the bathing room door. It was just like
Speaker 1: this acrid, awful, awful smell. And I followed that smell
Speaker 1: back into the room where our hair had been cut,
Speaker 1: and I saw there our novice mistress was tossing our
Speaker 1: ponytails into that fire, and just tossing our hair into
Speaker 1: the fire. And I could hear again that him that
Speaker 1: had been sung earlier that day, now turning back, now
Speaker 1: turning back, And it really felt that way. The Turning
Speaker 1: is written by Allen lance Lesser and Me. Our producers
Speaker 1: are Allen lance Lesser and Emily Foreman. Our editor is
Speaker 1: Rob Rosenthal. Andrea Asuage is our digital producer. Fact checking
Speaker 1: by Andrea Lopez Crusado. Special thanks to Amy Gains, Sarah
Speaker 1: oh Leender, Catherine Joyce, Georgia Young, Beth and Macaluso, Travis Dunlap,
Speaker 1: and consulting producer Mary Johnson. Her memoir and Unquenchable Thirst
Speaker 1: provided inspiration for this series. President Reagan's remarks and presentation
Speaker 1: of the Medal of Freedom to Mother Teresa and her
Speaker 1: remarks in the Rose Garden on or use courtesy of
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan Presidential Library under a Creative Comments license. Our
Speaker 1: executive producers are Jessica Alpert and John Trotti at for
Speaker 1: Coco Punch and Katrina Norville at I Heeart Media. Our
Speaker 1: theme music is by Matt Reid. For photos and more
Speaker 1: details on the series, follow us on Instagram at for
Speaker 1: Coco Punch. You can reach out via email to the
Speaker 1: Turning at for Coco Punch dot com. I am Erica Lance.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.