WEBVTT - Jane's Revenge 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:07.760 If I know one thing about diseases, it's that their 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.959 home bodies. No, it's fine, we make it. They just 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:15.160 want to netflix and chill. You just line up the 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:17.560 entire population of the US in a line across the 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.000 US and we shoot any deer that tries across the line. 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:22.680 I think we should do the reverse and have deer 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.040 shoot people who tried across the line. It's the only 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:27.800 thing that can protect us from the dangerous east. No, No, 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.680 that look, look, well, I guess it works in east 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:32.239 and in the west. We have to maintain the right 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:37.000 to arm bears. Yeah, I'm I'm of the opinion, given 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:39.280 how dry it is in New Mexico, that we need 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:41.680 to sink every part of the country east of New 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.199 Mexico to give it a coast that can that can 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:46.839 keep it moist. I wonder how much of this is 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.000 going to get in the final cut. Well, if you 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.840 live east of New Mexico, welcome to the ocean. That's 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:58.360 my suggestion. Um, speaking of people east of New Mexico, 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:00.920 this is it could happen here a podcast where some 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.319 of the listeners are east of New Mexico. Even though 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:08.000 I don't recommend that. Um, I'm Robert Evans on on 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.319 the call with me is Christopher Wong, Garrison Davis, Sharene, 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:14.840 Lnnie Units, and then our producers Sophie. Today we're talking 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:19.240 about terrorism. Yeah, we can do it in a little 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.640 NPR voice. So uh recently, the same week as the 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.800 Supreme Court leaked a document stating that they would be 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:30.120 taking out Roe v. Wade and ushering in an era 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:34.039 of theocratic fascism in a number of states. UH, an 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:39.200 individual or individuals unknown in Wisconsin attacked an anti choice 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:43.080 headquarters building with a Molotov cocktail and spray painted graffiti 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.880 on the side saying if abortion isn't safe, then you aren't. 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:49.160 Either that same group or individuals claiming to be from them, 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.200 UH later reached out to me through an intermediary and 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.800 sent a manifesto of sorts about the attack, promising follow 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:02.000 up attacks within thirty days. But they wrote, but they 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.680 wrote in cursive, so who can say, who can say 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:09.320 if this actually happened. So we'll talk first. I want 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:11.760 to just go over first what what happened in like 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:14.160 factual terms, and then we'll talk about the discourse around it. 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:18.120 So basically, there's this attack on this um anti choice 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:23.760 like advocacy organizations, headquarters and fucking Wisconsin. UM. It was 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:28.280 seemed to be a pretty good molotov and that, like Garrison, 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.400 you and I have watched a number of people failed 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:37.680 to properly utilize. I watched a few people get get ignited. 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.919 I've seen a couple of not cops get ignited by 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:45.919 molotsovs UM. They're they're they're not like people can suck 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:48.320 them up easily. Whoever did this did not suck them up. 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.440 It was seemed to be at the moment, no one 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.600 has been arrested. Now, it's possible by the time this drops, 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.280 Wisconsin police will be like, oh no, there was totally 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:00.760 surveillance footage and they fucked up and we just caught them. UM. 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:02.600 But at the moment, it doesn't look like that's the case. 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.680 So it looks like this is somebody who carried out 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:08.000 or some buddies, because it's entirely possible is multiple people, 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:12.040 but carry it out UM a very effective like action 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:17.760 that did material damage to UM, part of kind of 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:21.880 the physical infrastructure of the anti choice movement UM and 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:26.640 ended without anyone getting caught. So that's the fact of 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:32.040 the actual attack itself. UM. A person who claiming to 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.880 be affiliated with the individuals or group here did this. 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:40.240 Reached out to a source of mind who I'm keeping anonymous, 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:42.200 but somebody who I've known for a while with a 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.600 very good track record of being accurate, and said, hey, 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:50.360 these individual slash individuals have a communicate they would like 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.720 put out UM and I was sent on a non 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:55.480 files link, which is a link. If you view it 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.880 in a normal browser you'll get some fucked up ship. 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:00.360 Don't put it in a normal browser, I specified like 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:02.680 you're supposed to. If you put it in Tour, it 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.440 will download a text file, right, UM. And the text 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.680 file is the communic A. So using the Tour browser 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:11.760 for that link, you can get a text file in 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.560 which they lay out number one. They named themselves UM 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.200 and the name they've chosen for their group is Jane's Revenge, 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.800 which is a reference to the Jane Collective UM, which 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:25.080 was a pro choice group in the late sixties early 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:30.159 seventies that UM provided women with access to contraception and 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:34.160 abortion illegally. A bunch of them went to jail. Uh 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.000 they were pardoned after Roe v. Wade. If I'm not 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:44.880 mistaken or at least the click yeah, yeah, very well timed. UM. 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.800 So they're calling themselves Jane's Revenge, and they basically said, hey, 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.760 if you are an organization in the anti choice movement, 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.960 you have thirty days to close down your operations otherwise 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.080 there will be follow up attacks. They specifically noted the 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.240 long and it's at this point like a forty years 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:02.320 long history of tear wrist attacks from the anti choice movement, 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:06.280 many of which have assassinated doctors, something like sixteen people 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:10.320 have been killed, UM, dozens of bombs and bombing attempts, 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.080 something like a hundred acid attacks. So they made a 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.080 note of all that and said that like, basically we 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.840 will be UM, we will be responding in kind and 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:24.520 UH attacks after this initial attack will be correspondingly more severe. UM. 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:26.920 They also claimed to have a pretty wide geographic reach, 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.600 said they had folks in a number of cities, UM, 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.599 and that yeah, there's going to be follow up attacks UM, 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.920 and they're prepared to defend their bodily autonomy with violence. 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.600 So that's that's the gist of what was claimed in 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.880 the communic a UM. In terms of what I think 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:47.320 about its legitimacy, UM, I don't have any reason to 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:53.520 believe they're not representing the individual or individuals who carried 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.599 out that attack in Wisconsin, based on the timing of 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:58.839 when the communic was made, and based on the fact 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:02.400 that the community is pretty consistent with what we saw 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:04.960 from the actual action. Right, So, among other things that 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:07.080 you can tell from the physical action that was taken 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:11.200 is that, um, the individual or individuals who did this 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.640 were pretty well organized. They carried out a competent action, 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.479 and they thought there was a value in very clear 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.880 messaging because there's clear messaging surrounding the attack. The communicate 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:23.640 is very clear messaging. It does not sound like a 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:27.479 right winger writing up a fake communicate. It's very um. 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.520 It takes great pains to both connect itself to history, 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:35.359 to frame its violence within the context of the violence 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:39.480 perpetuated by the anti choice movement for decades UM, and 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.480 just in general, it's the communication seems consistent with the 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.760 action that we saw in Wisconsin. Now cannot say, we 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.600 cannot say, I cannot say to a statement of certainty 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.440 whether or not it's legitimate. One helpful thing they did 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.520 is place state that there would be another more attacks 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.280 in thirty days. So we're kind of waiting if thirty 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.599 days pass and there's never any kind of follow up 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.520 attacks by this group, then we can probably assume that 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.440 this was either somebody bullshitting or that the heat got 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.880 to too much for them and they decided not to 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.120 carry out follow up attacks. UM. But we're all kind 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.600 of in this holding pattern now to see what happens. 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:22.120 My personal speculation is that UM, they were exaggerating a 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.080 number of things. UM. I think that the their claims 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.240 about having members in a number of states in a 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:29.800 capacity to strike in a number of states was more 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:34.600 aspirational than literal UM. In that I suspect the people 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:39.080 behind this attack, in this communicate are hoping that by 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.880 UM carrying out attacks, they can inspire other people to 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.040 carry out attacks and credit it to the same organization, right, 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.240 which is not an uncommon tactic in the history of terrorism. 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.360 And again, this is terrorism. Like that doesn't mean I 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.440 don't think, uh, there have a point or that it's 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.200 like fundamentally unjust. Terrorism is just like a set of 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:00.960 tactics that different groups can use, and it can be 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.600 ethical or unethical depending on how you you choose to 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:07.000 do that. You can attack purely infrastructure, UM in a 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:09.960 terrorist manner, And I don't think that's necessarily unethical. And 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:13.360 you can also attack civilians um in a terrorist manner, 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:15.480 and I think that is unethical. At this moment, these 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.200 people have not done anything I view is inherently unethical. 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.239 They burned a building, um, which I think is often 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:23.800 justified and is in this case justified. So that's that's 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.640 my opinion on the matter. Let's open it up on 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:28.560 the point you kind of closed with. I mean, yeah, 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.160 they showed effective direct action. They did a physical thing. 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:33.319 Maltovs are not the best way to do like to 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.640 like arsenal building, but they are good for a very 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.320 quick attack. Um. It caused this whole media thing, right, 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:40.760 there's a lot a lot of people talking about it, 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.960 then releasing the communicate through someone who can give it 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:48.240 a lot of visibility. Uh, and then by by doing 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.240 it with this with this name Jane's revenge and saying 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:53.520 in thirty days there will be more attacks in different cities, 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.600 the messages that yeah, like you can One way to 0:08:57.600 --> 0:08:59.480 look at this is if if they don't have tons 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.040 of like you know, members are allies that they know 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.920 across different cities, is that and anyone can do this, 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.680 Like anyone can do this and call themselves by that 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:10.240 name and be a part of this larger thing like 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.960 it's you if you, if you spread it around, then 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.560 that it can become like this, this thing that anyone 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:17.960 can gloam onto. It doesn't need to be you don't 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:19.760 need to be a part of a member of a 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:23.199 specific group. You can just do stuff and release communicates 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:27.880 safely and add add on to the to the to 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:32.800 the specter. Yeah. Um, it's not hard to set up 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:34.880 like a text drop in the same manner that did 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:40.120 they did. It is relatively secure. Like there's no perfect 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.760 if you are committing terrorism, there is no perfect manner 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.400 to issue a statement. Um, but of the different things 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.240 they could have chosen, this is relatively secure, especially doing 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.439 it through an intermediary. I haven't had direct contact with 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:55.400 these people, but um, we should probably note that there's 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.559 a huge discourse that started before the communic A came 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:03.720 out arguing that this is like a false flag attack. Yeah, 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:09.000 that's yes, that in a long line of calling a 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.079 pretty pretty well planned out direct action. When it actually happens, 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.439 people will defalse to calling it an op. We're calling 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.720 it a false flag from a very people like there's 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.600 there's like there's like libs who say, oh, this is 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.839 a staged thing to make our movement look bad. There's 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.920 tank kis who think it's like the CIA planning something. 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.400 There's random other folks who are like, hey, I don't 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.400 know if it's legit. I think maybe it's like some 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:38.040 it's a lot of people get verius various justifications for 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:43.560 calling pretty effective acts of direct action UM and questioning 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:57.280 questioning their legitimacy. I think some of this comes from 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:00.440 because there's obviously there's the bad faith elements of this UM, 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.040 but I think the good faith folks who questioned it, 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.720 there's a lot of learned helplessness. There this idea that 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:12.000 because somebody did carry out a pretty successful direct action 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:15.800 attack that kind of did what its intention was, then 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.800 it has to have been the FBI or whoever, right, 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.520 because obviously the left could never have pulled off something 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.800 as as cunning as throwing a single molotov at a 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:29.520 building and spray painting the side of it, you know, UM. 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.040 And I I do think that that's a problem. Whether 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.440 or not you think the solution to issues like the 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:39.320 right wing attack on reproductive healthcare come from direct action. 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:43.040 The fact that folks almost can't conceive of effective action 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.720 being taken by the left without the FEDS being involved. 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.959 Is really an issue. Yeah, and this was a huge 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.280 thing during one of the things that we saw there. 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:54.640 There were so many just weird conspiracy theories, and then 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.320 the every thing that happened very quickly was people became 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.200 convinced almost immediately that any one doing anything was it 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:03.640 was a federal infiltrator. And you've got people, you got 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.800 crowds turning people over to the the police. You got people 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:11.280 on Twitter like trying to track down um, like who 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:13.480 was throwing malltops and videos and like one of the 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.280 people they caught they turned over the police it turned 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.400 out had been had been the girlfriend is someone who 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:19.920 got killed by the cops. And so, I mean the stuff, 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.240 this stuff has has, the stuff has real world consequences. 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.679 It has already like sent people to jail, it has 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.560 it has this normostmobilizing effect of me, I don't remember people. 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:36.560 Two people remember the okay, the two to two big Okay, 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:42.760 the two big Twitter conspiracies were um bricks bricks and 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:47.600 Who's yeah, yeah, yeah, there's hoping that people like people 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:52.760 would see a powers never seen right next to a 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:55.880 next to a construction site, Like, how are all these 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:58.480 pallets of bricks showing up this? There's like a construction 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:03.319 side of block away. You're like, who's distributing the fireworks? 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:07.760 How do these fireworks get here? Never mind June. The 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:12.400 history of like like the FBI, some people will mistakenly 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.600 like throw the CIA in there. The CIA doesn't really 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:18.439 tend to do like the domestic facory. Um, they're international facory. 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:19.920 But like, if you look at the history of the 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.080 FBI fucking with left wing social movements, it's not by 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:27.280 handing out brick palettes. Yeah, but that's not what they do. 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.600 We have a lot of documentation about what they do 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.600 and it's not bricks. And if there is some secret 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:36.200 group who's maliciously giving out bricks so people attack, throw 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.280 them through windows or throw them at cop cars, like 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.400 who cares? Like bricks are getting throw a cop cars. 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.480 It doesn't matter where they come from like that, people 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.959 are still choosing to do action. Yeah. The best example 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.480 of this is is the Russian Revolution n No. Five. 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.880 The Russian Revolution of N five was started by a 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.439 guy who was a police agent. Like his whole thing 0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:59.160 is he was he was he was working to create 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.000 like like you is that could be controlled by the state. 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:03.640 An he marched a bunch of people into a square 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.199 and the police shot them. And that's how and that's what. 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.960 That's literally how the Russian revolutions started. Like it doesn't. 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.000 It doesn't like there's there's a there's a point. Okay, 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.240 they're they're like, there's two layers of this. One is 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.000 that like they're they're almost is never a conspiracy going 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.320 on into If the conspiracy is we want to push 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.480 people towards doing things, it almost it doesn't. There's a 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.640 point at which it stops mattering because a lot a 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:27.960 lot of people forget about atoms rights. When you're talking 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:33.400 about these types of things. Usually the more simple the answer, 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.920 the more likely it is. The more the less involved parties, 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.840 the more likely the more likely it is. So if 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:45.000 there's a choice between rad people fucking up an anti 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.960 choice headquarters versus a government conspiracy to do false league 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.280 operations to make the anti choice to make the abortion 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.560 movement look bad, like one of those is much more 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.960 simple and much more likely, And it's people just deciding 0:14:58.000 --> 0:14:59.480 to do stuff because guess what you can you can 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.400 actually do that you don't need to allow these these 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:07.320 weird narratives to to like to justify your uncomfortableness at 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.480 like at forms of radical direct action, because it's it's 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.960 people use that false flag idea, so so they don't 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.560 need to actually engage with what direct action will mean 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.760 and if it is someone's moral imperative to physically attack 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:24.360 like physical manifestations of these sources of oppression. Yeah, I 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.440 think you're right on the money there. I think one 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.560 of the things that's most frustrating to me about this 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.240 is it kind of suggests that a sizeable chunk of 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.640 people who ostensibly consider themselves on the left are like 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:40.320 focusing their time not on doing anything and not on 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:44.880 taking any action to materially change the conditions they're angry 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.720 at um, but are instead looking for reasons to disavow 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:50.960 other folks on the left, And that that's like the 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.360 primary which is if you again, if you like, look 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.400 at what we know Herbert Hoover. Herbert Hoover was saying 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.200 about the FBI's co Intel Pro program was the all 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.760 of co intel Pro, Right, that's what if That's what 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.880 exactly what I was thinking. I'm just like, I feel 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:11.800 like this promotes I don't know a morality like race 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:15.160 or like just like competition where the only thing it 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.320 does is just promote in fighting. When you have this, 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:22.080 like you're on your morality horse. But I think if 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:26.680 you actually support real change, you have to come to 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.320 terms with like you have to do illegal things and 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.160 like holding on too, like these made up laws that 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.080 someone made up about like how to achieve change is useless. 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:40.400 And there's I mean, like dividing up a side that's 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:43.120 supposed to be going for the same thing. Like that's exactly. Yeah, 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.920 it's just it's a missing point and people don't really Yeah, 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:49.240 if you look at the right, you've got all these 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:55.000 folks who were like legal and whatnot, uh proponents of 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:59.280 of ending reproductive health care access and any of the 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.720 folks who are doing repeated acts of terrorism. And the 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.240 folks who were on the legal side of things didn't 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.399 disavow those people. They were often affiliated with churches that 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:11.359 did shoot like auction off the possessions of like extremists 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.160 who had murdered doctors and ship like they were like 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.720 even the most they would do is just not directly 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.639 talk about those people. They didn't disavow them. They didn't 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.439 like attack it because they understood that a diversity of 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.119 tactics was going to be how they achieved their goals. 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.280 That it was a mix of pushing for these legal 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.639 changes and carrying out so many terroristic attacks that it 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:38.359 frightened people away from supporting um abortion service providers and 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:42.200 other kind of reproductive health care service providers. US difference 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.879 between the right and the left, though, like Democratic Republicans 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:48.639 are really good at uniting on this big picture, and 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.080 I feel like Democrats are not. I feel like they 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:55.520 just uh, I don't know. It's too there's too much 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.280 in fighting, and that's why it's always fractured. Part of 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:03.080 it is that on the Republican side you have Republicans 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.480 and you have the far right who are also Republicans. 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.040 And even though a lot of folks on the far 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.720 right bitch about the centrists in their up like the 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.359 folks who are closer to the center, they all get 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.280 in line for really radical stuff, Like the center of 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:20.200 the Republican Party always yields to the radicals, whereas Democrats 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:25.199 do not acknowledge leftists as having anything to do with 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.680 with the Democratic Party or democratic politics other than the 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.320 yell at them when they don't vote. Um. And on 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.200 the other hand of things, there's a lot of folks 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:35.280 on the left who hate liberals more than they hate fascists, 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:39.800 you know. Um, and it's it's I think one of 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:41.520 those is a bigger problem than the other. I think 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:45.880 that the failure of the democratic establishment to like deal 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.360 with the left at all, um or make any kind 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:52.240 of progress, uh, that could be seen as as actually 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:56.760 left wing actually much more um. Yeah. But but I 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.200 think I think there's they're they're I think they're structural 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.240 reasons for that, which is okay. If if you look 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.880 at what is the basis of conservative alliance, right, if 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:06.760 you're a conservative, you know, okay, if if you're from 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:08.800 this sort of like moderate business wing at the party, 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:10.520 if you're from the fascist wing at the party, right, 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:13.520 you can have one judge who gives both of you 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:15.359 the things that you want, right, Because if you're if 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.440 you're like the Koke brothers, the thing that you want 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:19.679 is the regulation. Right, you want to be able to 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:21.960 just like dump poison into the environment. If you're ON, 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:23.879 If you're ON, if you're an evangelical, the thing that 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:27.359 you want is uh, you know, to no one can 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.239 ever have an abortion again. And you know if if 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:32.800 if you're like a fascist, I don't know, maybe you 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.960 want like we don't give food to immigrant children anymore, 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.280 so they start to death. And one judge can give 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:42.200 you all of those same things because the the sort 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:47.200 of the the class and social issues of the Republican 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.880 base can all be fused together without harboring each other. 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:52.240 But the problem with with with this with the Democratic 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:54.680 Party is that like the Democratic Party's basis is like 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:59.000 what's left of the union movement, but then also like 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:01.920 a bunch of corporations to banks and like weapons manufacturers 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.200 and stuff. But then also like a bunch of angry 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:07.240 students and also like a bunch of people from different 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.400 minority groups, and all of these people like have different interests, 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:13.320 and you know, in the Democratic Party ultimately like the thing, 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:15.400 the thing that they care about is keeping capitalism going. 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:20.040 And you know, if if they have to like if 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:22.040 that means that yeah, I mean, well okay, if if 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:23.480 your things you want to keep capital isn't going, like 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.240 of course you're just gonna throw your left wing out 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:29.240 to the wolves, right like it. It makes sense for 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:30.879 them to do this because because the part of their 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:35.560 base that actually matters. Isn't like the labor movement, it's 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:40.480 like it's Goldman Sachs. I think that one of the 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:43.320 other things that that causes people to have this like 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:47.239 immediately anyhow someone does someone does. Like people remember like 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:52.520 when when Nancy Pelosi's driveway got graffitied, like that was 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:57.040 like that's never never, that's horrible. Don't graffiti and Nancy 0:20:57.040 --> 0:21:00.920 pelosis driveway, that's evil? Yeah, like it's nicest you did 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:05.520 nicest there. Yeah, everyone lost in mind and was like, oh, 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:07.439 this is obviously a false flag, and it's like what 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:09.680 you know. But the reason they do this is because 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.000 they have they have like democrat optics brain where like 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.520 instead of anything being about politics, every everything is just 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:17.199 about optics and optics and how does it look? How 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.480 does it look? How does it look? Like? The only 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:24.239 people who care about this are like weird pundits. But 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:26.560 because because everyone's so sort of absorbed in like the 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:29.240 Twitter media spear, like they think that like the actual 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:32.000 general public cares about the things that pundits care about 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.320 because the only thing they're seeing is pundits writing angry articles. 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:39.080 But like nobody cared like zero people, especially the graffiti thing. 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:43.440 Because man, people like dissect how someone sprayed an anarchist a. 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.320 It's like if you're not aware, like a chunk of 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:51.200 the discourse, are e it being a false flag or whatever? 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:57.640 Was that the Yeah, but that they did they did 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.880 as they did like the key a inside the inside 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:05.920 the circle. Um. And it's wild because I mean spray painting. 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.040 What they said like if if abortions aren't safe, then 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:11.720 you are either in cursive is a genius move. It's 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:14.320 great because if you spray painted in some like random 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:16.480