WEBVTT - “It’s All Upside”: A Hollywood Veteran Mines for Gold at Wattpad Webtoon Studios 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:12.560 Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast featuring conversations with 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.680 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.880 Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:24.320 guest is David Madden, Global head of Entertainment for what 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:28.800 Pad web Tune Studios. I've known David in many incarnations 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:32.280 as a creative executive. He's worked on the studio side 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:36.440 for Fox Television Studios, as a network programmer for Fox 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:40.120 Broadcasting and a MC network, and he's spent the past 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:42.760 two years as head of television for the busy Gregg 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:47.320 Berlante Productions. Now he's taking all of that experience and 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.400 channeling it into working with a new form of storytelling. 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.920 I'll let David explain what a web tune is and 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.720 how the watt Pad platform works. I found it fascinating 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:00.480 to learn from him about how the company in corporate 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:04.160 simple math and insights from readers to help find kernels 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:08.160 of gold in a vast mountain range of users submitted stories. 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.880 During an interview in his l A office, Madden grins 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.319 when he says, for the first time in his long career, 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.959 he feels like he's working for a quote one Century 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:21.960 company and quote. That's all coming up after the break, 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.680 and we're back with David Madden, the global head of 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:37.399 Entertainment for what Pad web tune Studios. You start by 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.040 explaining to us what exactly a web tune is and 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:44.560 how its popularity is growing around the world on social 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:49.720 networks and various media like that. He started about ten 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:53.400 years ago based in Toronto. It is the largest digital 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.480 platform for web novels in the world if you actually 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.440 exclude China. China goes off, but the rest of the 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:01.880 world is the are just It's about ninety millions subscribers. 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.520 Fifty five languages are represented in what on what pad 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.959 um it is. It has grown over time to be 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:15.600 a mammothly meaningful site, especially for younger people. The audience 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:19.360 that the readers on what pad a largely fifteen thirty 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.480 five um But and there have been things in the 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:25.760 past that have become films or TV shows that were 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.800 based on white Pad stories. There have been stories that 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:30.880 have come out of off what Pad that have become 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.960 movies or shows. So the Kissing Booth movies that were 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:36.799 there are three of them on Netflix were based on 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:39.400 what Pad story. We didn't produce it, but they did 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:43.799 come from there. Um there's a movie called after theatrical 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.079 movie Love Story that spawned five sequels. UM. While the 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.520 optrical outside the US that was based on what Pad Story, 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.919 So they that platform exists, and there was a web 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:58.360 two platform. Web Tune is based in Korea and Soul. 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.520 It is large digital comics and graphic novels platform in 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.200 the world. Ninety million people subscribed to that, so between 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.200 the two platforms almost two million people or on either 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:12.400 what pad of web Tune. Web Tune basically just means 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:16.400 it's a something visual, a comic on the Internet. That's 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:19.519 all it means, um so, but it actually looks different 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.400 if you if you go on web tune, it's vertical scrolling. 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:24.440 So instead of the way that we are used to 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.840 reading comics where you go across the page, you go 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.760 down the page, get to end of the chapter. UM. 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:34.480 Actually they call them episodes. So there are extra graphic 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:39.040 novels on web tune that could be two five hundred, 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:42.480 six hundred episodes long, and they're all carefully drawn by 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:47.440 individual artists and creators and UH and have different UH 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.920 readerships from from web tune. UM. Both what Pad and 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:55.440 web Tune measure in things called reads. So if you 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.360 which means like you could go on a story on 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:00.640 what Pad or or comic on tune, you could be 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:02.960 on it for five seconds, that's a read. You could 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.640 be on it for five hours that's um. So, we 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:09.240 don't actually really know exactly how many people have finished 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:12.400 reading a given book or a given comic, but there 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.920 are titles on web tune that have over a billion reads. 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.240 Um there are type over a billion. My eyebrows just 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.360 jumped out. Uh that I'm not sitting here saying that 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.560 a billion people actually reads that start to finish. But uh. 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:28.599 And there are titles on one bob Pad that are 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:31.920 in the hundreds of millions of reeds. Um So a 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:35.760 big global readership for these two platforms. And then there 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:38.120 are titles that have virtually no reads. So it's it 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.279 is genuinely a meritocracy where both platforms in their ways 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:44.680 are built on word of mouth. Are they built on 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.720 subscription or advertising? What? How do they monetize this kind 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:50.840 of advertising? Well, and there's I could get a little 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:55.880 more detailed. There there's advertising, um. There there's publishing. So 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.120 the most successful of those books on either pad of 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:02.440 web tune. They are there are hard hard copies, they're 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:07.039 in bookstores, they're they're by their own Amazon, they're they're viable. Um. 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.640 There's a title on web tune called Laura Olympus, which 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.320 has been on the top of the Graphic Novel Best 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:19.000 New York Times Bestseller list multiple times. The new there's 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.200 a one called Tower a Tower of God that has 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:25.080 one point five billion titles. Believe Reads I Believe and 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.839 that's the third season that is about to come out, 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:29.839 and that will that has been on the top of 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:33.039 the list. That's another way to monetize them. Something called 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:37.560 paid reads, where the most successful stories you can read 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.080 for free up to a certain point and then if 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.520 they continue. And it's modest as a couple of dollars, 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:46.160 but that's it's another way for us to get paid um. 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.800 Or there's paid a webtoon and get paid um. But 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:53.719 that's how they monetize it. So that's it sounds like 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:58.000 a literal trove of content. There's there is so much stuff. 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.080 We don't actually know how much is on watpad, but 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:04.240 it's certainly in the hundreds of millions of stories. Uh 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.760 so is it the user do users upload their own stories. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:11.279 Users upload their own stories. Anybody, anybody in any country 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.400 can put their story on the platform. We check it 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:20.480 to make sure it's not offensive, obscenes something terribly, but 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:22.960 once it clears that filter, anybody can put them up. 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.279 There's no creat there's no qualitative filter. It's all about 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:30.240 kind of just offensiveness. Um. And anybody can go on 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:35.159 their read it's free. So so now the authors retain 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:37.479 their rights, so we aren't by putting it on the 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:42.159 platform getting their rights any any on both platforms. The 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:48.160 creators retain their their creative prerogatives. Um. So it's so 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.800 it's good for us because it gets people to come 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:53.680 to our platform. It's good for the authors because it 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.920 gets exposure for them and they hang onto their rights 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:58.719 so they can sell something later on down the line, 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.480 either the movies or television or traditional publisher or to 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:06.440 us as a publisher for actual compensation. So so the 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:10.600 things that you are developing into more traditional television and 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.520 film or other types of digital media properties, you you're 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:15.440 still have to you still go and do a deal 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.160 with that creator and a licensing agreement. It's not like 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.040 a blanket. Once they put it up, then then what 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:25.119 Pad web tune can adapt it. No, that's that's correct 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.120 and sort of how it works. Just to go into 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:31.000 a little more detail. We love detail on a strictly business. Okay, 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.320 then then here you go, uh so on what Pad, 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.440 like I said, people can put up their stories. Um, 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:39.920 if you are as reader, you're curious about a certain 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:42.240 kind of thing. Let's say you're really into vampires. You 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:43.960 and you went on what Pad and say, what are 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.680 the top ten vampire story zone? Right now? The platform 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:48.880 will point you to hear the stories that are most liked, 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.720 that they've got most feedback against. All about word of mouth, 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.440 it's all about positive feedback. Everything is tagged, everything data 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:58.160 is collected and everything. So you'll you'll, you may check 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:00.720 out that vampire story. That's another set of needs. The 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.280 more time something is read, that that creates more and 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.080 more constituency, more and more audience for that particular title. 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.200 When it reaches a certain threshold for us, it's one 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.880 thousand reads, then it kind of gets on our radar 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:15.640 and it goes to a very large group of book 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.560 scouts in Toronto, which would call the Content Group H 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:22.560 and they review anything that's reached that threshold. They then 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.360 anything they think could possibly be a movie, could possibly 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:30.040 be a TV show, they sent to me and our teams. 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:32.400 We have a film team, we have TV team, we 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:36.079 have an animation team. Um. We then they said this 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:40.000 maybe thirty things a month. Let's say. Um, we then 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:42.120 look at those things and will cherry pick the things 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:43.959 that we actually think we can sell, things that actually 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.400 feel like they fit the television and film market. And 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.000 once we've identified a title we like, then we reach 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.680 out to that author and we say we'd like to 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:57.240 make an option persons deal shopping agreement. Um, we make 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.079 that deal with It's so far, every single time we've 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:02.960 reached out to a water paddle author, we've made a 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:05.840 deal because there there, they like the platform and they're 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.960 excited to be there. Uh. They feel flatter that somebody's 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:10.560 actually wanted to try to make a move your show 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:14.760 out of them. Uh. With web tunes similar, although it's 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:22.360 a web tune, authors creators have sometimes already found um 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.880 revenue opportunities in Korea, so they may be a little 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:29.840 more uh careful about what they what rights they want 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:32.520 to give away and not give away. But basically it's 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.360 been a very positive relationship between what authors, web web 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:37.680 tune authors and US and once we make a deal, 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:42.600 h then we now we're out like traditional producers trying 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:44.640 to package things, put them together in such a way 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.800 that we can sell them too. Platforms are you are? 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:53.000 Are things being uploaded in multiple languages from uages for 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.160 for what pad web tune because it just takes a 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.120 lot more work to put a web tune up because 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.400 it's all artistically created. Are basically either in English or Korean, 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:06.880 m mostly in English, but but it's perfectly easy for 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.080 anybody to type in their rock pad story. So, like 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:12.040 I said, lots of lots of different languages. And what 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:16.520 we've done is both position things to be in the 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.199 US market um which are previently told by American authors 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.960 telling American stories. But we're making shows in Indonesia and 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.120 Malaysia and the Philippines, in Spain and France and Italy 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.920 mostly from authors whore writing in the in the appropriate language. 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.000 And the plan is to distribute these shows on the 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.560 same platform so that you get to that you reach 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.559 that audience, or you're going to license these You're gonna 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:44.760 license these two more traditional network and streaming channels. The 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.320 plan as to as of today is to sell them 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:50.959 to other distributors. So we are selling to Netflix or 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.240 Amazon or or or networks in the US. UH. And 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:56.920 we have slight deals with companies like by a Common 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.480 Freeman Freemantle where we have multiple projects with them which 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:03.960 we are selling in multiple territories. Um. There are Indonesian 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:07.280 networks and and and other Asian networks that we're selling 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.720 things to down the line. Could there be some platform 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.800 of our own maybe, but but for right now, we're 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.080 really trying to work through through traditional distribution systems. We 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.240 see Indonesia is like one of the growing markets in 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.640 virtually every metric for media and entertainment. It's a really 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.720 interesting market to watch. It's basically it's the number four 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:29.679 country in the world in terms of population and it's 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:31.320 a big it's a big market for us. What pad 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:35.400 is a very meaningful word as this web tune interesting? Um? 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:37.240 Is there? So this is a kind of a new 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:41.240 kind of storytelling. Is there are there qualities to adapting 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.800 this to TV and fill to other types of media? 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.000 Are there qualities that you're retaining? Is there something that 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.679 makes it a web tune or a what pad story 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.520 that you're trying to retain as you adapted for other formats. 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:54.880 It's it's a it's a it's a good question. I 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:59.079 think that it's hard to generalize because so many different 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.520 authors are right for these sites. We have on what 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:06.760 pad alone, five million writers working on our posting at 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:10.400 least once a month. Five million writers. Um, it's a 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.800 lot of writers. So it's very hard to generalize across 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.200 five people. Um. And it's a it's a slightly smaller number. 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:18.880 Is so much smaller number for web tune because it 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.040 just takes more work, But there's a lot of different authors. 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:25.840 The thing I would say, um, is that coming from 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.160 traditional media as I do, I'm used to writers who 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.480 have grown up in Hollywood, who have who are reading 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:36.400 Variety every day, who are very knowledgeable or think they're 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.520 very knowledgeable about what we'll sell or will not sell, 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.079 and they walk in with a certain degree of cynicism 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.439 about what idea they may want to present. People who 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.280 are writing for these platforms are the opposite. They are 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:49.839 writing from their hearts, they're writing their stories. They're not 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.120 even thinking about Hollywood mostly when they're writing them, they're 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:56.480 telling their narratives. There's a lot of very personal perspective 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:00.360 in there, and you'll just find ideas that either feel 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:04.000 genuinely authentic and true to that particular writer, where where 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.200 that persons lived, where that where that what their culture is. 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.880 Or sometimes you'll you'll read ideas that you'll just think 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.000 that's nuts, that's a crazy idea. But we live in 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:15.640 a world where the craziest ideas tend to have the 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:19.000 most traction. Uh So, you know, the writer's on what 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.160 Pad and web tune debt tend to have no field, 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.480 cynical filter. There's nothing in them saying, oh but that 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.920 will never sell to two Netflix is they're not buying 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:29.600 this kind of thing. One of the things that's really 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.960 interesting about what pad if. I don't know if you 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.400 ever read a book on this site, but it's a 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.840 very different experience, or at least it candy. So you 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.000 can read a pad story and you can read it 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.280 like a traditional narrative. We read like a traditional book 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.719 you've got from random house, or you can read it 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:45.200 and you get to a certain point in the narrative 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.120 where something meaningful happens, where somebody kisses somebody, or somebody 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.400 dies or something significant happens, and you can write in 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.240 the digital margins that say that was awesome, that was horrible. 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.280 I can't believe they did that. Why do that? You 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.600 can get get it into arguments with people. You can 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.560 look up how many people like that given moment, and 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.280 people hated that given moment. You can react in a 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.800 social media is way to the book as you're reading it. Uh, 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.400 if you choose to. Again, you're not obliged. But I 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:11.160 think it's part of what the attraction has been to 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.760 younger readers is that of billinge to react right now, 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:17.280 a little more interaction into the book, um, which is 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.600 on the one hand, fun for them. On the other hand, 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:24.840 it gives us all this information about it's your focus group. 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.480 Well you know it's it's like we can we can 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.800 we can look at actual statistics of they love that moment, 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.080 they hated that. So it helps us a when we're 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:37.360 kind of working with our writers, say hey, don't cut 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:41.240 this character out that's their favorite character, uh, or or 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.040 guide them whichever way. It also helps us tell platforms, 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.160 and this is a big part of I think the 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:50.680 attraction of hey, not only do we know that they 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.600 liked it, we know why they liked it. You know 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:57.920 what what and they don't know exactly what they what, 0:14:57.920 --> 0:14:59.880 what meant something to them and what is because we 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.720 have all this literal information that we've collected, so it 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.880 is it is like a focus group, but it's the 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.240 focus group of hundreds of thousands of people, not twenty 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:14.920 four people. In more coming way, don't scroll away, We'll 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.640 be right back with more from David Madden of what 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:27.640 pad web Tune Studios. And we're back with more from 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:32.080 David Madden of what pad web Tune Studios. What is 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.040 your mandate now coming in to you know, to build 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.720 out a studio and to to get what pad web 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.200 Tune into the business of more traditional TV and film 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.400 content creating. What is your goal do you want to 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:47.320 do you have a do you want to reach you know, 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.600 ten shows in two years? What do you can you 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:51.640 give us some sense of kind of what your what 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:55.280 your goal posts are at this point? Uh, I don't 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:59.160 know that our goal posts are necessarily numerical in that way. 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.320 Um you know, I think that that and the different 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.320 in the business are are are moving at kind of 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:06.720 different speeds. We're a little farther along in the film side. 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.840 So right now we have we have two films in 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.400 post production that are actually not in post production, they're 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:16.880 finished posts. They're actually now selling at the a f 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.000 M with the American Film Market as the erectly as 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.640 we speak, we're kind of four lanes on the film side. 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.560 Lane one fully financing our own movies, and the kind 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.080 of five million dollar range co financing movies that are 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:31.320 a little more expensive. So we're doing one that we're 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:35.040 closing a deal on with a distributor you would recognize, Uh, 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:36.760 that would be like a ten million dollar movie that 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:39.760 we would co finance. We we really want to do 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.640 bigger movies where we wouldn't finance it, but there there 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.320 would be studio sized movies, major streaming sized movies that 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.400 we've just worked for fees. Um. And then we have 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:52.040 a whole international movie business. So for example, we did 0:16:52.440 --> 0:17:00.160 a movie in Spain called Nana Uh my span it's 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:04.880 just it's non existent through my window, which which came 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.160 out earlier this year. It is now the number four 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:11.600 movie non English language movie on Netflix in its history. Uh. 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.240 And it spawned two sequels. That was that was based 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.200 on a wit Pad story. Um. So so we want 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.639 to do movies all over the place. Um. And you know, 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.000 I think in terms of goals, I'd love to be 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.080 making uh four to six movies by twenty a year 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:30.240 by UM. With television, we're a little more early stage. 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:32.520 Uh and it's just kind of in the nature of 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.800 how the two companies came together. Uh. So we have 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:39.199 a couple of things that Disney Disney and Company, Netflix 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.600 and the things we are in early stage about. But 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.399 I don't expect us to have anything uh greenlit in 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:49.600 even three I expect us to set up a lot 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:54.959 of things, but I think, you know, by let's i'd 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.720 love to have board of six shows on the air. Uh, 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.679 you know, but we have some growing to do to 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:06.440 get there, especially like scripted scripted TV drama series. Those 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.280 those can be big financial commitments. Are those Is there 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:12.240 a world where you would UM finance that or do 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:14.919 you aim to more like a cost plus model with 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.680 streamers to kind of get you on the board if 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.480 we could, if we could, Uh, I mean, I don't 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.800 believe this is a market where you deficit finance a 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.480 TV series the way one used to ten years ago, Right, 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.720 it says when you say it almost sounds like an anachronism. Well, 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.240 and it is economically at this point but sure if 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:34.400 if we if we can be in a position where 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.880 we can be the studio on a cost plus basis, Um, 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:41.400 that would be great. Right now. I think we're perfectly 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.680 happy to partner with traditional studios, especially if we're doing 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.760 something at a platform which has an in house studio 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.920 connected to it. We're happy to partner with people. Um, 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.640 we we want to walk before we run. Um, but 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.040 in the longer run, could we if we could own more, 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.520 would be better? Sure? M. You seem to have a 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:02.399 lot of fair amount going on on the movie side. 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.240 Are the are you finding those relatively low budget movies 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.920 there you can make enough to make it worth your while. 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:12.040 We'll find out, you know. I think that that you know, 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.919 we're playing to a very in the movie side, certainly 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.440 on the smaller movies, we're playing to a specific target. 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:20.800 We're playing to y A, We're playing to young romantic stories, 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:26.160 young thrillers. Um. So it's still a market actually that 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:29.560 that consumes movies. UM. You know, obviously harder with people 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:33.000 my age. Um, I'm very old by way for anybody's listening, 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.960 but so uh so, I there seems to be a 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:41.320 lot of appetite for for the brand. So we've both 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:45.680 in the US and internationally, so I think that people 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.280 know that there's especially if you can say to people, hey, 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:53.280 we have eighty million reads on this, there's enough people 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.000 who love this book that they're gonna want to check 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:57.920 out the movie. And if you can make a movie 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.800 for four or five million dollars or le stephen, uh, 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.199 it's pretty safe. It's pretty safe that you know that 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.960 you'd be that as long as we don't make a 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:11.120 disastrously bad movie, that the audience that so that either 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:13.520 read the book or knows of the book is going 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.399 to be stimulated. You want to go, m h. You 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.840 must be as you develop things, and you know, with 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.320 the anticipation of getting shows before cameras, you must be 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:26.440 having to arrange some creative marriages between creators and people 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:28.880 with the skill to really, you know, put a TV 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:30.840 show on its feet. Is that I know, we all 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:32.640 know that can be tricky at times. Has that been 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.640 Has that been a big focus for you in terms 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:39.240 of matching the right creative partners to get things? What 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.520 have you found people that have experienced I mean, are 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:46.440 people are like more seasoned writers writing in these formats? Um, 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:48.159 what are you talking about? People who are adapting them. 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:50.920 Are you talking about the authors of the original book 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:52.639 The authors are the originals. Well, the authors of the 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:57.679 original books are, um, you know, they're starting, some of 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:00.560 them are starting to have enormous amount of success and 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:05.800 therefore have the different degrees wanting to influence or shape 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:09.040 the way their stories are being told. Uh. And we 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:10.800 respect that and we're happy to. But it's not just 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:14.760 similar to working with traditional authors of traditional book business, um, 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:17.240 in that both in the traditional book world and in 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.960 our world, they're writers who take go with God, don't 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:23.520 care to send me my check, or are rooting for 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:26.400 you and their authors you want to be more involved. Uh. 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:29.719 And either is fine. But you rarely find an author 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:33.199 that is equipped to become a show writer. And I 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:35.800 think that's again, I think that's true in both an 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:40.879 immediate It happens, but rarely and and you know, I 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.680 think that if I think many authors love the ability 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.160 to sit at their computer and create that their own 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:49.840 story with very little micro managing. And if you're gonna 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:51.520 go with the television or film, you have to be 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:53.439 able to put up with micro management on a lot 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:58.200 of different fronts. Uh. It's like a professional So it's 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.960 just again, some can adapt to it, most can't, and 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:05.440 and even most even more than that, just don't want to. Yah. 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:09.359