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Speaker 4: Very difficult to keep the line between the past and

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Speaker 4: the place.

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Speaker 3: Who leaves that someone out of the past.

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Speaker 5: We can enter and take possession of a living beef.

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Speaker 2: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 2: is not through with us.

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Speaker 6: Welcome back to the next picture Show A movie the

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Speaker 6: Week podcast devoted to a classic film and the way

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Speaker 6: it's shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm Tasha

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Speaker 6: Robinson here again with Keith Phipps, Scott Tobias.

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Speaker 7: And Genevieve Kosky.

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Speaker 6: In our last episode, we discussed Silent Running, one of

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Speaker 6: just two movies made by pioneering special effects artists Douglas

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Speaker 6: Trumbull and following a lone astronaut who hijacks a geodesic

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Speaker 6: dome full of the last living trees and plants from

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Speaker 6: Earth and takes off from space with the drone companions

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Speaker 6: he lovingly programs to be his friends. That show doesn't

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Speaker 6: sound much like Project Hail Mary, the new film adaptation

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Speaker 6: of the novel of the same name by Andy Weir,

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Speaker 6: the best selling author of the Martian Project Hail Mary.

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Speaker 6: The first movie directed by extremely busy writer producers Phil

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Speaker 6: Lord and Christopher Miller since the Lego Movie and twenty

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Speaker 6: two Jump Street both came out in twenty fourteen, is

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Speaker 6: about a scientist named Ryland Grace played by Ryan Gosling.

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Speaker 6: Who goes to a distant star to try to save

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Speaker 6: the world after parasitic infestation starts dimming the sun. But

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Speaker 6: the two movies are more alike than you might think.

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Speaker 6: Both are about ecological collapse, a lone man in space

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Speaker 6: on a solo mission that threatens his sanity and the

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Speaker 6: question of what we owe the Earth and what causes

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Speaker 6: are worth dying for, And when Ryland meets an alien

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Speaker 6: engineer that he dubs Rocky, another solo sojourner trying to

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Speaker 6: solve the infestation problem and save his own son. Both

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Speaker 6: movies explore the idea of a lonely man finding his

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Speaker 6: most human connection in a non human companion. They're certainly

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Speaker 6: more to Project Hail Mary than that quick description. Ryland

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Speaker 6: wakes up already on a ship, thirteen years into his

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Speaker 6: mission and suffering from amnesia. As his memories slowly return

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Speaker 6: via flashbacks, he begins to recall what the early days

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Speaker 6: of the project look like, including his first discoveries about

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Speaker 6: the solar parasite, his involvement with a worldwide scientific project,

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Speaker 6: and especially his work with Eva Stratt, the ruthless administrator

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Speaker 6: behind the mission, played by a Zone of Interest and

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Speaker 6: anatomy of a false Star, Sandra Huler. Some of the

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Speaker 6: things Eva said and did to him give Ryland a

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Speaker 6: fuller picture of who he is, and that image is

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Speaker 6: not a pretty one. But at least his space mission

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Speaker 6: gives him a chance to redeem and redefine himself. We'll

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Speaker 6: talk it over after this break.

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Speaker 1: I understand that you think I'm the right person for

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Speaker 1: this mission.

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Speaker 3: I understand the stakes.

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Speaker 7: Objects I'm parching.

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Speaker 6: If we do nothing, everything on his planet will go extinct, including.

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Speaker 1: Us, Doctor Grace.

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Speaker 6: The world is counting on you.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: I'm Grace. I'm gonna call you Rocky. We're here for

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Speaker 3: the same.

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Speaker 1: Reason his son is dying too. We're gonna save our planets.

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Speaker 3: We have to learn how to communicate.

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Speaker 7: Check this out.

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Speaker 1: We have about two hundred and fifty words.

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Speaker 3: Let's find you a voice. Why the school reader in

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Speaker 3: the space?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 3: Why is a scorchyo in space? Try this? I am Rocky.

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Speaker 3: I like.

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Speaker 6: So Project Hill Mary. I guess I want to start

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Speaker 6: just to frame this a little before we get into it,

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Speaker 6: because it does kind of affect the questions I would ask.

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Speaker 6: Have any or all of you read the book.

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Speaker 7: I'd listened to the audiobook, which, as Ray Porter told

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Speaker 7: me in the pre roll before the film, I should

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Speaker 7: go out and listen to after watching the movie. Like

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Speaker 7: I feel like most people I've talked to have experienced

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Speaker 7: this book on audiobook because it is a very good

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Speaker 7: audiobook experience, and I found it funny that the movie

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Speaker 7: actually began with the promo for the audiobook.

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Speaker 1: I purchased it as an ebook, but now I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of curious about listening to the audio book. But the

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Speaker 1: answer though either way is no, I have not read it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I have not either.

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Speaker 8: I had wanted to listen to the audiobook based on

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Speaker 8: your recommendation, Jemy, but have not done so.

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Speaker 6: Tasha, have you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: I have in fact read the book and read the

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Speaker 6: Book of The Martian, which was Andy Wear's first novel

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Speaker 6: and was also adapted into a film. The adaptations in

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Speaker 6: both cases, I would say very similarly. Both done by Drugidard,

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Speaker 6: who is also the co writer and director of The

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Speaker 6: Cabin in the Woods and the writer director of Bad

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Speaker 6: Times at the El Royal and has done a lot

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Speaker 6: of work in in screenwriting. Adapted The Martian for Ridley

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Speaker 6: Scott and worked with We Are on adapting one here,

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Speaker 6: and I think in both cases very similar approaches. Both

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Speaker 6: of the books are pretty dense with like applied science

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Speaker 6: and hard science explanations, and this movie streamlines a lot

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Speaker 6: of that out. Keithan Scott, I'm actually most curious here,

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Speaker 6: having not read the book, how this movie played for you.

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Speaker 1: I like this movie a lot, and it's the short version,

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Speaker 1: but I've seen it twice now, and I think I

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Speaker 1: enjoyed it more the second time, even than the first time,

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Speaker 1: because I kind of like, you know, kind of lean

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Speaker 1: back and kind of appreciate the details a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: But no, I thought it was really balanced, you know,

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Speaker 1: the heaviness of the story it's telling and the situation

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Speaker 1: that our hero finds himself in with a light touch.

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Speaker 1: And I think some of that came from the directors,

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Speaker 1: and some of that came from obviously the script, but

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Speaker 1: also Gosling's kind of the ideal person if you want

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Speaker 1: to balance comedy and drama in a really adept way,

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Speaker 1: He's your guy for that kind of thing.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, so I was a little bit more mixed about

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Speaker 8: this movie, you know. I saw it big and proper.

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Speaker 8: I saw it on Imax with the family and I

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Speaker 8: certainly found it engaging. It is it is dense, but

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Speaker 8: it feels like it's dense, like it's muddled, and it's

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Speaker 8: over long, and I felt like the science part of

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Speaker 8: it is is you know, unclear and kind of nonsense

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Speaker 8: A lot of the a lot of the time where

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Speaker 8: where you know, where's the Martian there's it's so clear

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Speaker 8: and kind of like you feel like, you know, you know,

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Speaker 8: you're you're really keyed into all of this problem solving

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Speaker 8: that's happening on the fly, and and uh, you know

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Speaker 8: that provides a lot of you know, that makes a

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Speaker 8: film just incredibly engaging, start to finish in.

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Speaker 3: A way that I think this one isn't.

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Speaker 8: I also feel like this film certainly embraces comedy. I

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Speaker 8: feel like it could have the comedy part could have

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Speaker 8: been dialed back almost like by half.

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Speaker 3: It's this way way too jokey, and.

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Speaker 7: Bill Go's review a Vulture said thirty fewer.

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Speaker 3: Jokes really, Oh my god.

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Speaker 7: So I guess I.

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Speaker 8: Guess we're completely on the same page about that, because

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Speaker 8: I was like, Okay, this is like this comedy show

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Speaker 8: is that's not the same page.

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Speaker 6: Thirty nine percent aren't the same, don't you know anything

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Speaker 6: about science, you'd make a bad astronaut.

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Speaker 8: That's eleven percent. That's not too bad at difference, that's good.

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Speaker 8: That was math right there. That was like some good

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Speaker 8: maths from very on the flat. Yeah, fifty minus thirty nine,

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Speaker 8: that's eleven right there. So yeah, I don't know. I

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Speaker 8: did I like it the film overall, I think, on balance,

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Speaker 8: but I did find it flawed.

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Speaker 6: I would say, Scott, after that rundown, even before we

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Speaker 6: get to gen if you've got to ask what did

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Speaker 6: you like about it? Because I heard a whole bunch

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Speaker 6: of stuff you didn't like, followed.

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Speaker 3: By oh, honestly, I liked it. You could dial back

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Speaker 3: the comedy.

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Speaker 8: But the comedy that is there, that a lot of

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Speaker 8: it is very very enjoyable and funny, and his relationship

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Speaker 8: with Rocky is also sweet and funny and engaging, if

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Speaker 8: a bit more sentimental than I would like. And it's

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Speaker 8: just as a problem I guess that has to be

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Speaker 8: wrestled with. I mean it does. It's it's stimulating in

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Speaker 8: a very similar way as to the Martian as being

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Speaker 8: this very difficult problem or series of problems that have

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Speaker 8: to be sorted through. So I mean, I was you know,

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Speaker 8: certainly gripped by the film and enjoyed it, you know,

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Speaker 8: on balance, you know, more than not. But I just

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Speaker 8: thought I did think it was a little bit, for

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Speaker 8: lack of a better term, a rocky.

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Speaker 6: Oh dear Jennevie, what did you think about this as

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Speaker 6: both a movie and an adaptation?

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Speaker 7: You know, I think if I had been able to

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Speaker 7: experience it purely as a movie, I would be more

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Speaker 7: positive on it than I am, and I am generally

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Speaker 7: positive on it. I liked this movie, like it was

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Speaker 7: a fun movie going experience, but I think as someone

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Speaker 7: who consumed I don't want to say I read it

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Speaker 7: as someone who consumed the book and you know, knew

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Speaker 7: and enjoyed it very much and knew this story going

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Speaker 7: into it. I feel like the adaptation was so straightforward.

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Speaker 7: And also this is material that is like, in a

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Speaker 7: lot of ways written like a screenplay, like taking out

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Speaker 7: all the you know, dense science stuff that is like

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Speaker 7: weirdest thing, but just the flashbacks to filling in his memory,

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Speaker 7: like it's just so tailor made for a script, and

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Speaker 7: that's also sort of weirdst thing, especially in the hands

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Speaker 7: of Gooduard. So like it translated very seamlessly to screen,

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Speaker 7: and like it was nice to see like Rocky ship

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Speaker 7: and of course Rocky and seeing what he looks like.

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Speaker 7: And you know, the visual translation was enjoyable. The performance

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Speaker 7: from Gosling was fun, you know. I was excited to

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Speaker 7: see a maze, you know. But as an adaptation, it

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Speaker 7: just felt like it was kind of lacking a bigger

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Speaker 7: idea or a personality of its own that didn't just

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Speaker 7: come from the story already, and knowing that story really well,

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Speaker 7: there was just no kind of element of surprise, Like

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Speaker 7: once I knew how this film looked, it was like

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Speaker 7: that was sort of the end of the discovery I

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Speaker 7: guess of this film. And I do think I do

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Speaker 7: agree with Scott that, like I think it just took

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Speaker 7: a little too light of a touch to this material.

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Speaker 7: And I get that, like that's what you go to

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Speaker 7: Lord Miller for. They made this into a very all

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Speaker 7: ages movie the whole family can enjoy. I'm not going

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Speaker 7: to fault them for that, but I think like there

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Speaker 7: is a more emotionally ethically complicated version of this movie

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Speaker 7: that other filmmakers could have done that I maybe would

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Speaker 7: have enjoyed more, but I didn't not enjoy this movie,

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Speaker 7: I think I.

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Speaker 1: Take away there as you're saying, don't read.

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Speaker 7: Books or listen to them or consume them, or maybe

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Speaker 7: just like have a little more space. I only listened

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Speaker 7: to it like a few months before this movie came out, too,

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Speaker 7: so it was all very fresh, you know. So maybe

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Speaker 7: if I had a little more time to forget all

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Speaker 7: the plot beats, they would have hit a little more

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Speaker 7: than they did. But you know, it was just like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 7: this real. They go to Ta Sedi, you know, and

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Speaker 7: waiting for the them to escape confinement and the astrophage,

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Speaker 7: you know, like the twists weren't twisting for me.

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Speaker 1: I have a question for you though. It feels like

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Speaker 1: in the film, the idea of him having memories that

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Speaker 1: he's that are coming back to him kind of gets

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Speaker 1: dropped or at least kind of dialed dialed way back?

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Speaker 1: Is that more pronounce in the book very much?

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Speaker 7: So yeah, that was actually one of my complaints.

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Speaker 1: I guess I like the flashback structure, but it felt like,

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Speaker 1: initially motivated by this I Filly in the coats of

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Speaker 1: his own memory, and then that will just kind of

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Speaker 1: discard it.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, like I would have, I guess liked to see

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Speaker 7: more in Gosling's performance of this all coming back to him,

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Speaker 7: because it's like he doesn't remember things, and then he does,

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Speaker 7: and but we're still getting flashbacks, you know, So like

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Speaker 7: in the cutting between the flashback and present, I guess

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Speaker 7: I maybe would have liked to see a little more

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Speaker 7: in the performance indicating that these are actual memories returning

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Speaker 7: to him and not just flashbacks.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I think that is, you know, still a

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Speaker 6: significant part of the plot. It's just that you forget

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Speaker 6: because it starts to feel like just inventional flashbacks as

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Speaker 6: opposed to him re experiencing this memory that he had

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Speaker 6: completely lost and it changing his sense of his own identity,

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Speaker 6: which is, you know, kind of a difficult thing to

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Speaker 6: bring across on screen. But I guess when he gets

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Speaker 6: to kind of that final flashback about how he came

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Speaker 6: to be on the ship in the book, it's pretty

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Speaker 6: devastating for him. And in the movie, I don't know

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Speaker 6: that we really spend any time on how he feels

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Speaker 6: about that or how he takes it. He's just he's

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Speaker 6: too much in the moment. I think I liked this

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Speaker 6: movie better than certainly some of you, and maybe strangely,

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Speaker 6: since it's the exact episode of Genevieve's response, I kind

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Speaker 6: of liked it better for having read the book and

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Speaker 6: just feeling like, I feel like the book is very

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Speaker 6: lumpy in a way. I feel like a lot of

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Speaker 6: the flashback structure just feels very artificial, and the you know,

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Speaker 6: getting back his memories at narratively convenient times and his

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Speaker 6: reaction to them feels a little programmatic, and the science

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Speaker 6: slows down the story affair bit. There are also and

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Speaker 6: you know, here's here's where our trip over things. If

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Speaker 6: you haven't read the book, and you haven't seen the movie,

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Speaker 6: and you haven't watched any trailers, and you aren't really

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Speaker 6: aware of, like any of the response to this movie,

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Speaker 6: if you're avoiding spoilers to that degree, I would stop

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Speaker 6: now because I'm gonna say some things.

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Speaker 7: Why would you be listening?

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Speaker 6: I think it would be very hard to avoid some

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Speaker 6: of this information in the book. It is not in

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Speaker 6: any way hinted at that he's going to meet an alien,

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Speaker 6: and they put Rocky upfront in central in the ad campaign,

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Speaker 6: and we're talked about that to us at Polygon. When

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Speaker 6: the first trailer came out, it was just like the

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Speaker 6: way they adapted the movie. The heart of the movie

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Speaker 6: is the relationship between Ryland and Grace and Gosling's character

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Speaker 6: and Rocky, and they didn't want to leave that out.

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Speaker 6: They didn't want to surprise people with it. But in

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Speaker 6: the book it's absolutely a surprise. And the final flashback

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Speaker 6: where he realizes that not only did he not want

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Speaker 6: to come on this mission, but he was forced to

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Speaker 6: come on this mission against his will and drugged and

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Speaker 6: shoved into the space capsule, that's a big surprise to

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Speaker 6: the audience as well as to Ryland, and it's kind

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Speaker 6: of devastating. So I don't know, I mean, how did

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Speaker 6: those two things play for you, Keithan Scott, Like, having

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Speaker 6: not read the book, did either of those come across

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Speaker 6: as as a twist or did the fact that they

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Speaker 6: put both of those things into the trailer mean you

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Speaker 6: didn't really have the opportunity to see the most surprises.

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Speaker 1: I'm thankfully forgotten the surprise of him being forced into it,

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Speaker 1: and I thought that played really well in the film.

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Speaker 1: I think that was to me, really was a one

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Speaker 1: of the strongest parts of Classing's performance as well. Yet

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Speaker 1: I also really liked his relationship with Sunder Hohler's character

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Speaker 1: and the way that sort of sort of you know

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Speaker 1: that this development changed that. Uh, I kind of did

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Speaker 1: a one eighty from from the direction I thought that

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Speaker 1: relationship has had it.

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Speaker 8: I had done a good job of not seeing any

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Speaker 8: trailers for this film, really or not or either that

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Speaker 8: or either that are pushing it back in my mind.

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Speaker 8: So I I think I did know that there was

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Speaker 8: that Rocky existed. I think I didn't know to it.

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Speaker 8: I think I anticipated because I had, you know, I

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Speaker 8: edited Keith's review and uh, but the part of him

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Speaker 8: having gone up there against his will, that that was

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Speaker 8: a surprise for me watching the movie that got to

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Speaker 8: be sprung upon me. And then I got to think,

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Speaker 8: my god, the depths of cowardice to so to to

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Speaker 8: uh are unfathomable to me. But but I guess maybe

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Speaker 8: to others not so much. It seems, I mean, given

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Speaker 8: what he knows about what would happen if he doesn't

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Speaker 8: go on this mission to the rest of humanity, It's

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Speaker 8: just how do you even think about it for a second.

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Speaker 7: So he was like a book thing that and I know,

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Speaker 7: obviously the movie has to streamline a lot of the

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Speaker 7: science sea stuff. But an element of the book that

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Speaker 7: was excized that I think would have been interesting to

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Speaker 7: include here is that the in order for the astronauts

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Speaker 7: to be put into a coma to make this like

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Speaker 7: decade long journey, like the drug to do that, it

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Speaker 7: only works without killing you if you have a certain gene.

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Speaker 7: You know, people have a coma resistant gene that allows

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Speaker 7: them to wake back up, So like a very small

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Speaker 7: portion of the population is actually able to make this

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Speaker 7: journey at all. And Rylan Grace happens to have that

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Speaker 7: gene and still doesn't volunteer too, and then that is

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Speaker 7: why he is, you know, the one who is forced

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Speaker 7: aboard when the others perish. So obviously that's like pretty wonky,

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Speaker 7: but I think it does kind of make that character

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Speaker 7: even more complicated and maybe a little more unlikable. And

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Speaker 7: I think like this movie is allergic to making Brian

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Speaker 7: Gosly unlikable in a way that I get, but you know,

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Speaker 7: it might have been interesting to go a different way there.

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Speaker 6: So two things about that. One is that I talked

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Speaker 6: to Andy Weir about this movie and asked him if

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Speaker 6: there was anything he felt that the movie did that

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Speaker 6: improved on his book, and the coma gene was the

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Speaker 6: specific thing he called out, and he said he he

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Speaker 6: always considered that contrived and he was really glad they

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Speaker 6: fixed it. I disagree that, Yeah, so does some of

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Speaker 6: the people who read the piece that I posted on

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Speaker 6: Polygon about that interview. There was there was a whole

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Speaker 6: little argument in the comments because some people like the

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Speaker 6: comagene idea. That said as I mostly want to leave

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Speaker 6: the idea of Ryland being unlikable or unlikable for connections

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Speaker 6: because I want to kind of contrast it a bit

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Speaker 6: with Lowell's version of unlikability. But do you really not

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Speaker 6: think that like this scene where he runs me like

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Speaker 6: flees into into the world trying to escape his fate

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Speaker 6: of saving the world, doesn't make him unlikable. I in

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Speaker 6: that moment, I'm with Scott. I was just like, she's

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Speaker 6: not not only what a coward, but what a baby.

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Speaker 7: Well, here is where I admit that I did not

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Speaker 7: see that scene because I had to go to the

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Speaker 7: bathroom because this is a really long movie too. You know,

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Speaker 7: obviously I knew the story, so I thought I picked

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Speaker 7: the right time to go, But I did miss that

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Speaker 7: the actual execution of that scene.

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Speaker 8: Can we start making out, can we make up other

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Speaker 8: stuff that happened that scene?

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Speaker 6: See you didn't see the thing drawn from Charlotte's web

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Speaker 6: where like all little spider aliens parachute down to earth

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Speaker 6: and like dance around him in kind of a you know,

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Speaker 6: preview of coming attractions.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know if everyone else picked up on this,

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Speaker 1: but there might have been some Christian iventery in this

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Speaker 1: film whose main character is named is Ryley and Grace.

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Speaker 1: But to me, that struck me as the equivalent of

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Speaker 1: the moment when Jesus kind of resists or ask if

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Speaker 1: there's any other way besides the crucifixion. So that's that,

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Speaker 1: to me, was the equivalent moment for this, Oh.

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Speaker 6: Dear, you know, as somebody raised raised religion and with

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Speaker 6: like a certain like lingering respector for biblical stories. I

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Speaker 6: admit I am having a pretty like vivid image of

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Speaker 6: Jesus in the Garden of Gisemone, like throwing himself on

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Speaker 6: the ground, screaming that he won't go, and then you

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Speaker 6: know the Roman guards coming and sticking a needle in

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Speaker 6: his neck. There's there's nothing dignified about the scene. Genevieve,

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Speaker 6: I think is the thing is he just he comes

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Speaker 6: across as not a hero basically, which is an interesting

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Speaker 6: choice that this movie makes. I think when Lord and

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Speaker 6: Miller open on him flopping around like bonelessly, like a

401
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Speaker 6: wet sack of fish all over the floor of his

402
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Speaker 6: his spaceship, like they're signaling, don't take this too seriously,

403
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Speaker 6: like some heavy things are gonna happen. But this is

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Speaker 6: not a humorless movie. And for me, I was fine

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Speaker 6: with the humor in the movie for the most part.

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Speaker 6: I often found it surprising and sometimes touching. But that

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Speaker 6: was the one scene that went too far. And the

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Speaker 6: grace you know, thrown down and needle injected and hauled

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Speaker 6: off to his fate felt like a parallel of it,

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Speaker 6: I suppose.

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Speaker 3: I mean it did.

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Speaker 8: It did at least set us up for the opposite

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Speaker 8: of that, you know, I mean, you know this is

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Speaker 8: it becomes a redemption.

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Speaker 3: Story where he then exhibits.

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Speaker 8: The tremendous amount of courage and self sacrifice, you know,

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Speaker 8: in order with regard to his actions in saving Rocky.

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Speaker 8: You know, so there's there's a he does exhibit the

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Speaker 8: courage that he did not does not wildly does not exhibit.

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Speaker 8: Going on to the vision of the first place. Uh

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Speaker 8: so it works in that respect. I was it was

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Speaker 8: kind of striking to me the level of his resistance

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Speaker 8: to going.

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Speaker 6: So that's maybe the the central idea of the movie,

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Speaker 6: which I want to talk about a little bit. And Genevieve,

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Speaker 6: you kind of signaled that you felt the movie wasn't

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Speaker 6: enough about anything, to the degree that this movie is

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Speaker 6: about something as opposed to, you know, kind of a

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Speaker 6: space adventure. It's about this man who just doesn't really

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Speaker 6: have many connections on Earth. You know, we're Sandra Heeler's

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Speaker 6: character Avistrat tells him, you know, he's the most eligible

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Speaker 6: person to go on the trip, not because of a comagene,

433
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Speaker 6: but because he doesn't have any family. He doesn't have

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Speaker 6: a significant other, he doesn't have kids, he doesn't have

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Speaker 6: meaningful friends or connections at all. I don't have a dog.

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Speaker 6: I don't think she yeah, I don't think she says

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Speaker 6: nobody is going to miss you, buddy, but she comes

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Speaker 6: this close.

439
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 3: People don't find him attractive.

440
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 6: It's crazy, Well, he don't understand. I mean, yes, he

441
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 6: looks like Ran Gosling when he takes the glasses off

442
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 6: and combs his hair, but most of the time, he's

443
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 6: wearing glasses and his hair's a little rumpled, So you

444
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 6: know what woman could possibly find that attractive?

445
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: Did anyone else think that those two characters were about

446
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 1: two minutes away from getting together if that rocket hadn't

447
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: blown up?

448
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 8: Yes, for sure, thank you, And I'm really sure actually,

449
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 8: but I was. I was kind of I felt like

450
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 8: it was heading in that direction to get there well, to.

451
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: Me as part of what makes that that moment, so

452
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: you know, hit that much harder too. I don't know.

453
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 1: I found I found that the whole stretch of the

454
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 1: film quite moving, and also found her performance of the

455
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: Harry Styles song Sign of the Times really remarkable too.

456
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: Like going into the movie, I was thinking, you know,

457
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: that's a pretty good song. I like that song, and

458
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 1: in that moment, I was like, is this maybe the

459
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 1: greatest song ever written by anybody?

460
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 6: But CenTra Hueu's daughter picked that song. She was allowed

461
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 6: to pick the song she wanted for karaoke, and she

462
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 6: she went to her daughter for like a good choice,

463
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 6: which I think is great.

464
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: Well thematically, I think it really just fits fits the

465
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: atmosphere of the film at that moment too.

466
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 6: I've got some inside tea on the romance thing. But first, Genevieve,

467
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,479
Speaker 6: I is a person who likes romance and films. What

468
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 6: did what did you think about Ryland and the Eva

469
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 6: possibly hooking up?

470
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 7: I admit it didn't really ever cross my mind, just

471
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 7: because again, like the book knowledge and that character is

472
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 7: softened so considerably from how she is in the book,

473
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 7: so like it feels like any sort of chemistry between

474
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 7: them is purely a movie invention, and like, now that

475
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 7: you bring it up, I can see it. But I

476
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 7: think I was just so book brained that it wasn't

477
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 7: it like never even entered my mind as a possibility,

478
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 7: you know. But that's another place where the movie just

479
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 7: felt a little too slick and soft and sweet. I

480
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 7: don't want to say to any of that because like,

481
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 7: I don't mind that it was that, But again, there's

482
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 7: like a preclear version of this movie that I'd be

483
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 7: more curious to see, and her character is a part

484
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 7: of that.

485
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, her character is very softened from what I remember

486
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 6: of the book, So I didn't necessarily see romance between them.

487
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 6: But the person that I took to this movie, who's

488
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 6: a huge, huge fan of the book, came out saying

489
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 6: that his one objection was feeling that the movie signaled

490
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 6: romance between them. So when I did the junket for this,

491
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 6: I ended up asking Ryan Goslin and Sandra Huller and

492
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 6: Andy Weeir what they thought about it, and they were

493
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 6: all like, no, no, there's nothing between them, No, absolutely not.

494
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: I think they're wrong Gosly and Humor both I disagree.

495
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 6: I did say like, maybe if the world was an ending,

496
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 6: if circumstances were very different. But what Sandra Huller told

497
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 6: me that I love is she says she's not a

498
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 6: big backstory person. She doesn't think it's respectful to a

499
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 6: script to invent a backstory for her character that isn't

500
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 6: on the page. But she did assume that Ava Stratt

501
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 6: had a family and kids at home that just weren't,

502
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 6: you know, relevant to her work, so she didn't talk

503
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 6: about them. But when Grace says something about how lonely

504
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 6: she must be, and she looked at him and it's like,

505
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 6: I'm not lonely, what Sandra Huller was thinking is like,

506
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 6: I have a whole family that I that you don't

507
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 6: know about, because I'm not a weirdo who doesn't make

508
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 6: connections with people like you are, which gets me back

509
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 6: to the point we kind of got interrupted, you know,

510
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 6: mid mid progress on which is, if this story is

511
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 6: about anything, it's about this person who's made no human

512
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 6: connections getting kind of rejected by Earth. I mean, he

513
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 6: is sent off to space as their savior, as the

514
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 6: only person potentially you can save the planet. But also

515
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 6: he has no connections, and they're they just like look

516
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 6: at him and like, yeah, we don't need you here,

517
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 6: we need you to go die for us, which he

518
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 6: vehemently rejects. And then he makes a real connection out

519
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,719
Speaker 6: in space with somebody that he cares about and who

520
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 6: he's willing to sacrifice his life for. So I mean that,

521
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 6: to me is the I've read a lot about how

522
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 6: the emotional heart of the movie is this relationship. To me,

523
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 6: the emotional heart of the movie is Grace deciding that

524
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 6: there is somebody that he's willing to die for, and

525
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 6: it's not the entirety of humanity. It's this one little

526
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 6: rock alien. I thought that was kind of a cool theme.

527
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 7: Yeah, I agree, and I mean it's why I like

528
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 7: this story to begin with. You know, like that relationship

529
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 7: is very much like the heart of this story, and

530
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 7: I do think it comes across on screen successfully. I'm

531
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 7: struggling with the like sort of the ceiling on how

532
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,479
Speaker 7: much I like this this movie, because I just I

533
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 7: feel like I should like it more, and there's something

534
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 7: holding me back from liking it more. And I think

535
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 7: it might just come down to Ryan Gosling and just

536
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,719
Speaker 7: like the sort of charisma that the charm of it

537
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 7: all because and maybe it was all there and the

538
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 7: scene I missed while I was in the bathroom, but

539
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 7: I am just missing a certain existential sadness to Ryland

540
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 7: here that makes that relationship feel special or feel as

541
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 7: special as it did to me when I experienced it

542
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 7: in the book.

543
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: So it is it Gosling or is it Lord and Miller?

544
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 7: And kind of there, I think it's the combination people

545
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 7: a good way.

546
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 8: But it's kind of their thing though. I mean, they

547
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 8: are they're people pleasers, that that's what they're They're trying

548
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 8: to push those pleasure buttons in the audience all the time,

549
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 8: and you know there's sometimes you you can't just keep

550
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 8: matching that button. You gotta kind of kind of show

551
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 8: the hit the other some other buttons as well.

552
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 7: That was kind of my I mean, you can you know,

553
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 7: like you can and a lot of people like it,

554
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 7: like more people I think, like I'm in the minority,

555
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 7: you know.

556
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: I balance. I thought there was actually a nice balance

557
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: between those two, those two elements. But uh, but you know,

558
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I'm a soft touch. Maybe maybe

559
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: I'm turning into a soft touch.

560
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 3: I just I just wonder.

561
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 8: The other thing, too, is like you think about movies

562
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 8: of this kind and concluding the one that we'll talk about,

563
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 8: I think quite soon, it's like what is what are

564
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 8: you doing? Like what if you're Lord Miller? Like what

565
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 8: what are you expressing as a filmmaker here? You know,

566
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 8: Like I feel like there's there's a lack of vision,

567
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 8: there's there's a there's a desire to bring this story across,

568
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 8: to interpret it to this fun story and make it

569
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 8: make it into you know, something that the mainstream audiences

570
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 8: will embrace.

571
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 3: But like who are like why? What? And how?

572
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 8: Like what are you doing filmmaking wise? That that's interesting?

573
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 3: What are you?

574
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 8: How are you expressing yourselves? And it just doesn't It

575
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 8: feels like that is missing for me. I don't feel

576
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 8: like I know who they are as filmmakers watching this movie.

577
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 7: I said on the way home. I'd be very curious

578
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 7: to see Alex Garland's version of this movie. Yeah, totally,

579
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 7: which would totally bomb, I'm sure, But as far as, like,

580
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 7: you know, a science fiction filmmaker who gravitates toward complexity

581
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 7: rather than crowd pleasingness, that would be something I would

582
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 7: like to see.

583
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 6: Complexity, yes, but also thematic muddiness, like I'm looking at

584
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 6: something like Civil War or Men, where you know, he

585
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 6: got a lot of pushback from people who are like,

586
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 6: what are you trying to say here? Though, like what

587
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 6: what is your actual point of view as a filmmaker?

588
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 7: I was singing annihilation as that's different.

589
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean I felt like that.

590
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 8: I felt like, you know, you might find I mean, Men,

591
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 8: especially as flawed, but maybe those films are not clear

592
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 8: or whatever, you have issues with those films, but I

593
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 8: did not feel like those films lack personality and vision

594
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 8: and ambition like I feel like Alex Garland, over time,

595
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 8: actually really from X marketing on has been showing quite

596
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 8: a bit of personality, you know, and audacity as a filmmaker.

597
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 8: That's what I's it was kind of missing for me

598
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 8: here completely.

599
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: But in an Alex Garland version of this fundamentally changed

600
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: the nature of the material, though, I mean, I I'm.

601
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 7: Sure, yeah, and I almost regret bringing it up at

602
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 7: all because it you know, we should talk about the

603
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 7: film we have, but I only raise it in terms of,

604
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 7: like Scott's critique, which is also my critique, is that

605
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 7: as someone who enjoyed the source material, I was just

606
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 7: missing another idea to this movie, so I could give

607
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 7: filmmakers who might have given that idea.

608
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 6: Well, we don't have access to the Alex Garland version

609
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 6: of this movie, but we do kind of have access

610
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 6: to the Douglas Trumbull version of this movie. I mean,

611
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 6: admittedly there are different stories, but when you talk about

612
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 6: something that's maybe a little more thematically complex and possibly

613
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 6: a little more difficult to read in terms of intention

614
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 6: on the man in space kind of trying to save

615
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 6: the world with a cute companion. We're gonna have to

616
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 6: talk about Rocky, but we'll do that in just a

617
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 6: minute when we get to Connections.

618
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: The next picture show always presented by Regal Unlimited be

619
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Speaker 1: all you can watch movie subscription pays for itself in

620
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Speaker 1: watch everything we discussed as new episodes appear involves, you know,

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Speaker 1: two trips to the movie theater. That's a sizeable chunk

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Speaker 1: of time and money. We can't help you with time management.

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641
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: than that is eating habits or.

642
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 6: Exotic grace look discussed when eat.

643
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 3: How do you look when you eat? It looks beautiful?

644
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 3: Hill Me, Oh my god.

645
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 6: Now it's time for connections when we bring these two

646
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 6: films together and talk about all the things that they

647
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 6: have in common. There's kind of a big picture thing

648
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 6: with both of these movies that we have not talked

649
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,719
Speaker 6: about in much depth, and that's the non human companions.

650
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 6: So I want to kick off with that. I kind

651
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 6: of deliberately did not bring up Rocky as we were

652
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 6: talking about Project Hill Mary. He is meant to be

653
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 6: the selling point of the movie. He's meant to be

654
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 6: cute and funny and maybe just a little bit annoying

655
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 6: and endearing and toyetic and something that you can buy.

656
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 6: The drones in Silent Running maybe a little more complicated,

657
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 6: as we discussed in terms of unreadability, but certainly technologically ambitious,

658
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 6: and back in nineteen seventy two, one of the things

659
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 6: that people really fixated on in this movie the way

660
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 6: we're meant to fixate on Rocky. So we can get

661
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 6: to comparisons in a moment, But what do y'all think

662
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 6: of Rocky in Projectail Mary?

663
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: I found.

664
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 3: On one of Okay, I love that little I love

665
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 3: that little scamp.

666
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: I found Rocky to be a very endearing character from

667
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: the start, and I do appreciate how alien he is.

668
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: And I think I thought I was thinking of Rocky

669
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: in our last episode. We were talking about how Trumble

670
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: designed the drones did not appear a human like at all,

671
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: and yet we still anthropomorphize them. Same goes for Rocky too,

672
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: even before he finds a voice.

673
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 6: I mean they anthropomorphize him very deliberately before he finds

674
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 6: a voice, Like the first things we see him doing

675
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 6: are imitating Ryan Gosling's dance moves, you know, dabbing and

676
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 6: wiggling his non existent hips and all that. Like I

677
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 6: think it's kind of the opposite impulse, like Trumble really

678
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 6: wanted to emphasize, like the futility of putting human characteristics

679
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 6: on you know, robots, whereas I feel like Lord Miller,

680
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 6: like just from the beginning, like you know, look, it's

681
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 6: it's kind of a puppy and kind of an engineer

682
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 6: who travels interstellar distances. It can be both. Also, it's

683
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 6: kind of human and very cute. If anything, maybe that

684
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 6: may made me a little Rocky resistant is there was

685
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 6: almost just too much pushing for us to love Rocky.

686
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: I just thought curiosity when you referred to Rocky as

687
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: being toyatic. I could not find any any Rocky toys

688
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: as yet. But there is a T shirt with Rocky

689
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: on it that says Amaze, amaz and Maze, so you

690
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: know you there is merch out there.

691
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 6: There's already a there's a lego set of the ship

692
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 6: the Project Hail Mary that comes with a Rocky toy.

693
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 6: There are Rocky models already on the market. I promise

694
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 6: you there are Rocky toys and probably more coming.

695
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 7: This is how the pet rock craze of the seventies

696
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 7: comes back. You guys pet Rocky.

697
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 6: General, if you're blowing my mind. I expected you to

698
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 6: be all in for the romance. I expected you to

699
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 6: be all in for the cute golden retriever like alien,

700
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 6: and you seem entirely uncertain if you have any response

701
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 6: to either of those things.

702
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 8: Is it being as intelligent as Rocky is? Are we

703
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 8: supposed to also to believe that he's as limited in

704
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 8: terms of his range of feeling? Is capacity for you know,

705
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 8: not being optimistic, sometimes experiencing doubt, anger, darker emotions like that.

706
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 8: We don't really get that he is very golden retriever like,

707
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 8: which is very cute and makes him a fun character.

708
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 8: And you definitely root for that relationship and root for

709
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 8: Grace to come and save him. And he's he's very

710
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 8: pure in that respect, but you do kind of wonder, like,

711
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 8: why is this a more dimensional being given the capacity

712
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 8: for thought?

713
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 5: Is so is obviously, Yeah, there's a bit of a

714
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 5: I guess juvenilia to Rocky that I think I maybe resisting,

715
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 5: you know, like call it cuteness if you want, Like

716
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 5: I mean, he's he's cute in the book.

717
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 7: Well, no, he's Actually. One thing I do like about

718
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 7: Rocky is that they seem to have made him less

719
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 7: spider like than he has described in the book, because

720
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 7: I was worried about that before the trailer came out.

721
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 7: But he does, you know, come off in the movie.

722
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 7: I think a little more like a pet or a

723
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 7: friend or a child, you know, than a scientist. You know,

724
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 7: like there's some stuff of them doing science together, but

725
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 7: you know, it's more like his annoying roommate kind of

726
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 7: vibe than a complicated character. And then like I think

727
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 7: it's just kind of goes back to my overarching critique

728
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 7: is that there's just like a lack of complexity or

729
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 7: I see a lack of complexity to the characters that

730
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 7: kind of translates to their relationship as again nice, it's nice.

731
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 7: I don't have a problem with it, but I'm not

732
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 7: like wowed by it. You know, I didn't feel a

733
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 7: lot that I didn't already feel when I read it

734
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 7: in the book.

735
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 8: Contrast that with the drones that we get to know

736
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 8: in Silent Running, who need much but it's like it's

737
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,439
Speaker 8: like possibly something right. I mean, we we well we

738
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 8: on our last show. We speculated about what their motives were,

739
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 8: what they're feeling at certain moments of the film, what

740
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 8: their loyalties were to each other, what their loyalties were

741
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 8: to Lowell. I mean, all that stuff is baked into

742
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 8: Silent Running, and you know, gives those little beings a

743
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 8: little more complexity than you know, a being in Project

744
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 8: Hell Mary that I think we certainly get to know more.

745
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 8: I think it's an interesting contrast, a damning contrast.

746
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 6: One of the best bits of trivia I found well

747
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 6: reading up on Silent Running was that all of the

748
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 6: little touches that we see between the drones, the moment

749
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 6: where one of them is tapping its foot while waiting

750
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 6: up on the outer shell of the ship. The moment

751
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 6: where Lowell walks in and one of them kind of

752
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 6: nudges the other one. A lot of the body language,

753
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 6: the angles between them as that kind of like look

754
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 6: at each other. All that came from the human performers.

755
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:27,720
Speaker 6: Trumple kind of famously used biolteral amputees to perform the drones,

756
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 6: like inside these plastic shells, and he says they basically

757
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 6: couldn't see or hear, and they were really cut off.

758
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 6: So the only way they could communicate was by touching

759
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 6: each other, and they would kind of like poke or

760
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 6: bang on each other to communicate things. When he saw

761
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 6: one of the performers tapping their fingers because they were

762
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 6: bored while waiting for a shot, he was like, capture

763
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 6: that we'll put in the film. When one of them

764
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 6: nudged the other to say, like, hey, the actors here,

765
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 6: the scene's going to start, He's like, capture that we'll

766
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 6: put in the film. If I was able to interview him,

767
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 6: I would love to know how all these little moments

768
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 6: of humanization that come directly from his performers. Jibes with

769
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 6: his expressed desire to keep people from seeing these devices

770
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 6: as in any way humanized. I would love to just

771
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 6: sort of interrogate exactly what he was thinking there when

772
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 6: he portrayed them the way that he did.

773
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: I also, just as a side I would encourage anyone

774
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: who's curious about sound running to look up the pictures

775
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: of these performers. There was a spread I think in

776
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 1: Esquire that you can still find online of the performers

777
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: with the part of the costume removed, to see how

778
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 1: they fit into these drone costumes. It's really it's really cool.

779
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 6: There's a lot of behind the scenes stories, like apparently

780
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 6: Trumble had to really fight the studio. Despite the fact

781
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 6: that this movie was supposedly made under a no studio

782
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 6: interference contract, the studio really did not want to hire

783
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 6: amputees for the movie. They suggested little people, they suggested children.

784
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 6: He specifically wanted them to be structured the way they

785
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 6: were so they would look like less human because you know,

786
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 6: if you've got somebody standing in robots who the feet

787
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 6: are going to be reasonably close together, it's going to

788
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 6: look like a got Gong droid from Star Wars. And

789
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 6: he wanted something where it wouldn't immediately be obvious like

790
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 6: what was performing it or how so he had to

791
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 6: really fight for these performers. And then he was like,

792
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 6: all of these people are people who had trouble getting jobs,

793
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,919
Speaker 6: who hadn't worked in Hollywood and couldn't and they all

794
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 6: really loved both the money they were making and the

795
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 6: chance to work on this film. So, you know, which

796
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 6: might be some projection on his part, but you know,

797
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 6: he's got some behind the scenes stories that are really fun.

798
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 6: This movie's a rabbit hole you could go down kind

799
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 6: of endlessly. But getting back to connections, these are both

800
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 6: movies about men on their own in space after the

801
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 6: death of their entire crew. In both cases, these stories

802
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,720
Speaker 6: have very different tones, both about being alone in space

803
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 6: and about the death of the crew. What do you

804
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 6: guys think about the difference between I killed my crew

805
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 6: in order to accomplish my task and my crew died

806
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 6: in order to accomplish this task and now I'm alone

807
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 6: and probably gonna die.

808
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 7: Too well, and the idea that death is baked into

809
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 7: one of these missions and not the other, Like Ryland's

810
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 7: crewmates went on this trip expecting to die on it,

811
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 7: and there's a you know, a fun beat fun from

812
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 7: the book that made it into the movie of like

813
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 7: how they'll you know, their chosen methods to take themselves

814
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 7: out when the time comes. They didn't all make it in,

815
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 7: but the vodka made it in the Heroin? Did I forget?

816
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 7: Did she did? She said Heroin?

817
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: Right in the movie she mentioned Heroin, but we only

818
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: see the vodka.

819
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 7: Right, right. Yeah. So the idea that you know, these

820
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 7: astronauts who went on this mission expecting to die on

821
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 7: it do that just before expect you know, they're expected

822
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 7: to is an interesting contrast to these three idiots who

823
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 7: have been there six months and are you know, eager

824
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 7: to get back in another six months and you know,

825
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 7: just want to race moon buggies around. There's no inherent

826
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 7: sacrifice to this mission for them, So that makes their deaths.

827
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 7: I don't know how that makes their deaths different exactly.

828
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 7: I'm having trouble like exactly articulating it, but it's like different,

829
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 7: two different forms of irony, I guess that we're dealing

830
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 7: with here.

831
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 6: I think the deaths of the crew in Project Hail

832
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 6: Mary are inherently meant to be you know, tragic and

833
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 6: a heavy loss. Narratively, it feels very strange because we

834
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 6: find out they're dead before we find out who they are,

835
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 6: what their relationship is to He himself doesn't know what

836
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 6: his relationship is to them or who they are. None

837
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 6: of that information has come back yet, so he has

838
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 6: to deal with the fact that he's alone, and he

839
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 6: has to deal with, you know, what to do with

840
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 6: their corpses and kind of how to send them off,

841
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 6: how to respect them, how to give them a meaningful

842
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 6: departure ritual when he doesn't really know who they are

843
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 6: except from effects he finds by rifling through their possessions.

844
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 6: It's just sort of a very dark thing, but you

845
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 6: know how to feel about it, Whereas I still don't

846
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 6: quite know how I feel about the death of Lowell's shallow, bullying,

847
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 6: jerk companions, like they definitely deserved some I don't know

848
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:33,760
Speaker 6: that they deserved murder.

849
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 7: There's also the echo of Lowell bearing at least the

850
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 7: one who he didn't blow up, you know, and eulogizing

851
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 7: all three of them in the process, or at least

852
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 7: attempting to eulogize them. And he did know them, you know,

853
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 7: much more than Rylan knew his crewmates. At the moment

854
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 7: when he is sending them out of the airlock, but

855
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 7: Lowell still struggles to find words for that moment, and

856
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 7: obviously it's you know, he's wrestling with his own feelings

857
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 7: about what he's done and the reason that he is

858
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 7: having to do this. But I guess the burial scene

859
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 7: in Silent Running is so much has so much more

860
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 7: complexity to it for that reason, both for Lowell's role

861
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 7: in the death and like his relationship to those guys

862
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,720
Speaker 7: that Ryland doesn't have to deal with, and that's equivalent scene.

863
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 3: He does cry. Lowell does does.

864
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 8: He does feel remorse about what he's done, but at.

865
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 6: The same time, I think he's struggling with what to feel.

866
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 6: I think they both are for very different reasons. And

867
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 6: I think you could argue that Lowell is to some

868
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 6: degree struggling with how to mourn somebody that he murdered,

869
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 6: how to deal with his own feelings of loss over

870
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 6: someone he murdered.

871
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's interesting in the way the film

872
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: really keeps returning to him flashing on their memory. If

873
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: further support for our uh, it's actually the story of

874
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: a man losing his mind. Reading of the film.

875
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's interesting that both of these movies deal with

876
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 6: traumatic flashbacks to some degree. But in one case, it's

877
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 6: things that I did that I don't remember that redefine

878
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 6: me as I re recall them, versus things that I

879
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 6: did that I can't forget and can't stop seeing over

880
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 6: and over again again. It's not really commented on heavily

881
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 6: and silent running that that's why we keep getting those

882
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 6: little flashes of his former crewmates. But I mean, he's

883
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 6: dealing with post traumatic stress disorder, I would say, and

884
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 6: Trumbull just keeps reminding us and reminding him of what

885
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 6: he did.

886
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 8: You got to think about, like how these movies are.

887
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 8: Any movie like this deals with the issue of being

888
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 8: lonely in space, because there is no feeling lonelier than that, right,

889
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 8: I mean, you are, you're no contact with anyone, maybe

890
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 8: no hope of ever having contact with any other being.

891
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 8: It is a severe existential crisis that other films have

892
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 8: really focused on, and these you know, I you know,

893
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 8: I guess, I guess it's uh, I guess with I

894
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 8: mean there's a as it being a solve in Project

895
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 8: hell Mary in the sense that eventually he does find

896
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 8: someone who can help him address that. That loneliness. But

897
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 8: I think it's interesting to think about just the degree

898
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 8: of just how that might feel to be in his

899
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 8: in that in that situation, maybe not maybe believing that

900
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 8: that you're never really going to come across any sort

901
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 8: of living being again in what what does that sort

902
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 8: of turn you into?

903
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,280
Speaker 1: I think it might not be a problem for Lull,

904
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: to be honest. I think he feels guilt over over

905
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 1: the death of his crewmates, but I don't think he

906
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: I think he may be better suited to this kind

907
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: of lonely existence. This might actually not be the worst

908
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: situation for him.

909
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 6: I mean, he's definitely missing something, and you know when

910
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,760
Speaker 6: he when he teaches his uh drones how to play poker,

911
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 6: And I don't think it's competition. I think it's companionship.

912
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 3: Companionship, But I think.

913
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 6: You're also right, like he he misses so limited ass

914
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 6: aspects of that companionship. But I don't think he misses

915
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 6: his former crewmates much. And I for that I can't

916
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:07,240
Speaker 6: blame him, might admit.

917
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 7: I mean it's interesting to see how these two men

918
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 7: like go quote unquote mad in this movie, because when

919
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 7: Rylin wakes up and kind of processes his situation to

920
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 7: the extent he can. At that point, you know, we

921
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 7: get this little montage of him like drinking all of

922
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 7: her vodka and dancing with them Mop and just like

923
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 7: kind of giving you know, giving up, you know, is

924
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 7: sort of the implication and sort of just succumbing to

925
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 7: despair in that moment, and it's but it's also kind

926
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 7: of like played for laughs because Lord and Miller. But then,

927
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 7: you know, once Rocky enters the picture, there's a sense

928
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 7: of purpose and you know, his scientist muscles kick in

929
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,439
Speaker 7: and he has like something to do, you know, and

930
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 7: experiments to run, and it just it gives him per again.

931
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 7: But with Lowell, it seems like once the droids enter

932
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:10,320
Speaker 7: the equation, they seem to almost like exacerbate his madness.

933
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 7: Like that poker scene is really weird, right, Like he's

934
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 7: like mocking and belittling the droid that he programmed to

935
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 7: play poker for not playing poker correctly, and he just

936
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 7: like kind of like has a crazy man laugh at

937
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 7: one point. It does kind of feel like him reprogramming

938
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 7: the droids are just like kind of a further expression

939
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 7: of him losing it than a solve for it, you know,

940
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 7: or even companionship like he doesn't actually like he programs

941
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 7: them to do things for him, and yeah, there's a

942
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 7: companionship element to it, but it doesn't seem like his

943
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 7: main priority with them.

944
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 6: Pop up video fun Silent Running Trivia fact number forty seven.

945
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 6: The reason they have that the round pool table in

946
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 6: Silent Running is because the scene was originally written for

947
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 6: him teaching the robots to playpool, and they thought that

948
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 6: that would be very easy to do mechanically, and it

949
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 6: turned out to be prohibitively difficult, so they settled on

950
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 6: the poker thing as like an alternative because at least

951
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 6: the little grippy hands pumatically could like hold cards to

952
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 6: some degree, but they could not operate a pool stick,

953
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 6: which I find fun.

954
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 7: I guess that also explains why they're playing the ground

955
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 7: that very low table Yes to kind of fold himself

956
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,439
Speaker 7: into so that the droids can join him.

957
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 6: I think both of these movies just have to contend

958
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 6: with the problem of how do you make somebody by

959
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 6: himself cinematic? How do you make somebody amusing himself or

960
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 6: slowly losing his mind in silence cinematic? And the answer

961
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 6: is talking to themselves, finding odd ways to amuse themselves

962
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 6: and then finding something else to talk to. But I

963
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 6: think it explains a lot of the structure of both

964
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 6: of these movies and a lot of the just sort

965
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 6: of antique incident is both of these directors try to

966
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 6: figure out, like what do we put on the screen

967
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,439
Speaker 6: to convey the passage of time and how long these

968
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 6: people are alone? That's still interesting to watch it all.

969
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 7: I think the epitome of that in Project Hail Mary

970
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 7: is the don't go Crazy room, like the giant screen,

971
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:33,760
Speaker 7: you know, which is purely an invention of the movie

972
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 7: and would seemingly take up a lot of their very

973
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 7: limited energy resources.

974
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: But the resources, I know.

975
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 7: I know, sorry, I just you know, I'm trying to

976
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 7: be practical about space travel. You guys, I get it.

977
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,720
Speaker 7: It's a movie you need to you need visual tools

978
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 7: to communicate internal situations, So I get it. But like

979
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 7: I said, it's just a very prime example of that.

980
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 6: So, speaking visual tools, we did talk a bit about,

981
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 6: you know, Trumbull's fascination with space and like desire to

982
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 6: build this movie around the effects. Project Heil Mary is

983
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 6: a two hundred and fifty million dollar movie with to

984
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 6: some degree blockbuster special effects. Both of these movies have

985
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 6: one particularly similar sequence. Lowell diving the ship through the

986
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 6: rings of Saturn kind of parallels the tau Citi fishing

987
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 6: for like local parasites, how mibas they end up being

988
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 6: called in both cases, you know, taking the ship into

989
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 6: some place dangerous where it's dealing with like high interplanetary

990
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 6: winds and debris and like like danger. What do you

991
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 6: think about how those two scenes read placed up against

992
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 6: each other so many decades apart.

993
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 8: They almost feel like they're there to sort of juice

994
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 8: the action a little bit, to kind of give you

995
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 8: just something to respond to, rather than being sequences that

996
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 8: make a huge amount of sense. Yeah, I didn't really

997
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,479
Speaker 8: kind of understand what they were even trying to do

998
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 8: in Project Hail Mary.

999
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 3: And I guess, I mean, I guess.

1000
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 1: You come enough in the orbit to receive his sample

1001
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 1: using a fishing like device.

1002
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I get it.

1003
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 8: But it's like, but it's just like it's a little

1004
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 8: it's wunky, man. And then I get what you're saying, uh,

1005
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 8: and then it brings you know, it's like, yeah, I guess,

1006
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 8: I mean, I guess he's just running. That's what you do.

1007
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 8: You bump into Saturn when you're out there and you

1008
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 8: go through the go through a ring. I don't know,

1009
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 8: it feels like a device, it feels like narrative devices.

1010
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 8: In both cases, it's kind of kind of goose up

1011
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 8: the action. But maybe that's a cynical interpretation.

1012
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: No, I don't think you're wrong. Actually, in Project calt

1013
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,800
Speaker 1: Mary also that's what leads to Rocky's near death experience.

1014
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 1: I guess you could call it, but I actually thought

1015
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: he was dead. I actually thought they were gonna you know,

1016
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: maybe I was just well, this movie had it tooks

1017
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 1: to me a little deeper, but I actually thought he

1018
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: was dead. But yeah, it does feel like the in

1019
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: Project cal Mary is the place where they have to

1020
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: talk a lot of a lot of science stuff, so

1021
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: they need to jazz it up a little. And like

1022
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 1: with Soilid running murder aside, it's kind of the only

1023
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: action you get in the movie, which is I think

1024
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:17,720
Speaker 1: fundamentally a very meditative film. So yeah, they do both

1025
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: feel like concessions to what you go to science friction

1026
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: movies for most of the time. But I also think

1027
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 1: they both work in their way.

1028
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 8: I mean, I just think about about having a certain

1029
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 8: amount of faith in your audience I mean, because you know,

1030
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 8: something like if you just go to The Martian, for example,

1031
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 8: like you're really you're not even really caught up in

1032
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 8: the existential crisis. You're caught it up in that film

1033
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 8: as just a guy solving problems, you know. I mean,

1034
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 8: obviously he's put it, put it into all kinds of

1035
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 8: different crises, but the problems are so clear and the

1036
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 8: solutions are so well articulated, and and all the just

1037
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 8: those those things just push you through that narrative so

1038
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 8: cleanly and so grippingly. You know that you don't necessarily

1039
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 8: need to feel like an event is like imposed upon

1040
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 8: the movie in the way that it is in Project

1041
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 8: Hail Maria at that moment, for example, you know, I mean,

1042
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 8: you have that initial incident in The Martian, that is

1043
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 8: what strands Matt Damon's character on that planet. But the

1044
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 8: rest of it is just like, Okay, how am I

1045
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 8: going to survive? How now that I've survived, how I'm

1046
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 8: going to communicate? You know, blah blah blah blah blah,

1047
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 8: and just everything leads to another and it all feels

1048
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 8: very clean and purposeful.

1049
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:28,399
Speaker 3: I mean.

1050
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 7: The Martian also does have the escape from sequence at

1051
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 7: the end, which is pretty action y and you know,

1052
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 7: sort of the I guess an equivalent type of scene

1053
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 7: to what we're talking about.

1054
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 3: That is true, that's true.

1055
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,800
Speaker 6: I wanted to raise the point that both of these

1056
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 6: movies are movies about ecological catastrophe and collapse, one very

1057
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 6: much at human hands, the other, you know, due to

1058
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 6: an outside force and no fault of humanity, which you know,

1059
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 6: I understand why the movie is structured that way. It's

1060
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 6: kind of the point and the threat. But at the

1061
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 6: same time, I feel like a little eyebrow raisy about

1062
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 6: a movie about environmental catastrophe where you know, humanity had

1063
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 6: absolutely nothing to do with the catastrophe. But I think

1064
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 6: it's very interesting that both of these movies are about

1065
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 6: like an existential threat to Earth's eychology that take place

1066
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 6: mostly far away from Earth, you know, far away from

1067
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 6: the problem that we're theoretically trying to solve. Silent Running

1068
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 6: never even shows us Earth, And like, I don't have

1069
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 6: a big point here, I just think it's a really

1070
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 6: interesting observation that we're kind of dealing with the destruction

1071
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 6: of like Earth's natural environment from outside, from very far

1072
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:47,479
Speaker 6: away from like a sterile environment where we aren't being

1073
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 6: exposed to it or affected by it. You know, we're

1074
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 6: doing all of this on behalf of billions of people

1075
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 6: that we aren't seeing in any way. And that's that's

1076
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 6: a very specific parallel between these two movies that I

1077
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 6: also think it's just very unusual storytelling.

1078
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 7: I also think you can read Project Hail Mary as

1079
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,720
Speaker 7: sort of an alien invasion narrative too, you know, like

1080
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 7: the ecological disaster part of it, as you say, is

1081
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,439
Speaker 7: not at human hands, which is, yeah, maybe a little

1082
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 7: eyebrow raising, But when you put it in the context

1083
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 7: of an alien organism, you know, invading our planet, or

1084
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 7: at least the thing our planet needs to live, I

1085
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 7: think it maybe helps divorce it from any sort of

1086
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 7: comment on the current status of Earth's environment. And similarly,

1087
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 7: in Silent Running, you know, we talked about this, but

1088
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 7: the line about how Earth seventy five every day and

1089
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 7: you know, everything's honky dory. There just aren't forests. That's

1090
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 7: such like I need to know more, man, I need

1091
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 7: to know more to know how to feel about that.

1092
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: You know, do they not use their resources properly?

1093
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, And it's still unclear to me, like the extent

1094
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 7: to which reforestation is actually a goal versus is just

1095
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 7: like preservation in space, like almost like a museum type

1096
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 7: of project. I do think Lowell talks about, you know,

1097
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 7: reforesting Earth as you know, something that we should be

1098
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 7: working toward, but it isn't clear to me how much

1099
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 7: that is actually a goal of the entities financing this project.

1100
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 3: It's interesting to think about, though.

1101
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 8: I think about that scene of him eating the candle ope,

1102
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 8: and you know, and the tension between him and him

1103
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 8: and is in the other astronauts who are who are

1104
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 8: who are enjoying some non organic thing, and it just

1105
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 8: it makes me think about like, is this it has earth?

1106
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 8: But is it been a thing where where man has

1107
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 8: won the war of man versus nature?

1108
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 3: Right?

1109
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 8: I mean they have actually conquered and now they run things,

1110
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 8: and and they're going to keep that. They've got the

1111
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 8: thermostat at seventy five. And they're eating their you know,

1112
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 8: non organic food which which they like just find.

1113
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:05,959
Speaker 1: Variations on rice. Chris retreats.

1114
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, whatever they have, they seem fine with it.

1115
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 3: It's his cubes.

1116
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 7: It's it's the most futuristic shape, a cube.

1117
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 8: And they think that his his candelope is gross, you know,

1118
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 8: I mean, uh, which you know Keith does as well.

1119
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 8: But but still, you know, some people like those types

1120
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,919
Speaker 8: of like those canalopes and probably other organic things to eat.

1121
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 8: But it seems like it almost seems like, rather than

1122
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 8: the Earth being destroyed through some ecological disaster, that it's

1123
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 8: almost been a deliberate move on mankind's part to control

1124
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 8: the Earth, to dictate things on it on on its

1125
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 8: own terms. And uh, and you know, snuff nature out

1126
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 8: at least on Earth Abian space, you can bring it

1127
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 8: bring it back in the form of these geodesic domes.

1128
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 7: That would also align with the line that Liul says

1129
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 7: about how on Earth there's there's no disease, no poverty,

1130
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 7: everybody has a job. Yeah, but there's no more beauty,

1131
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 7: imagination or frontiers to conquer, which struck me as such

1132
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 7: an odd third thing to have on that list, you know,

1133
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 7: But if you think of it in the context of, well,

1134
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 7: man has conquered all of Earth, you know, and made

1135
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 7: it succumb to his will, then maybe that line does

1136
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 7: make sense.

1137
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 6: I'm also not really down with there's no beauty on

1138
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 6: the Earth anymore. It's like creativity doesn't exist anymore. Nobody's

1139
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 6: making art or anything like there's just there's literally nothing

1140
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 6: because there ain't trees. I don't know. It's one of

1141
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 6: one of many places where Lowell comes across as strident.

1142
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 6: I guess is the word that most customind shrill, strident, hyperbolic, judgmental, cloistered,

1143
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 6: just like a lot of other negative things. We did

1144
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 6: talk about Lowell being unlikable. I am curious kind of where,

1145
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 6: given how hard Lord and Miller and Gosling are all

1146
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 6: working to make Ryland Grace the most charismatic, like likable,

1147
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 6: warm coward on the planet, how that lines up for

1148
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 6: you against both Trumble's willingness to make a Lowell an

1149
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 6: uncomfortable presence to be in, but also I guess, just

1150
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,439
Speaker 6: sort of the fearlessness of like you're going to stick

1151
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 6: with this movie even if you don't like it's psychotic

1152
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 6: murderer protagonist who is unpleasant to be around. I don't know,

1153
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 6: it's just the degree to witch project hail Mary is

1154
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 6: is selling like warmth and presence versus how hard silent

1155
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 6: running is trying to push you away while trusting you

1156
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 6: to stay close is really interesting to me.

1157
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 1: Maybe something you can do with a lower budget seventies

1158
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: film that you can't do with a super expensive twenty

1159
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 1: twenties film.

1160
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 7: How much of Lowell's unlikability do y'all feel is attributable

1161
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 7: specifically to Bruce Dern versus the character is written.

1162
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 1: It feels like at least Bruce Tern was given a

1163
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 1: lot of room to make that character his own and

1164
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 1: did so in a very you know, Bruce Dern way.

1165
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it's funny. I found an article when I

1166
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 1: was researching this film for something else about how it

1167
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 1: was Bruce. It was an article about Bruceter is like,

1168
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: at last Bruce den gets to play the hero. You

1169
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 1: haven't seen the movie yet, have you that articles? At

1170
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 1: that point he's mostly done supporting roles as bad guys.

1171
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: So this was a big step into the spotlight for Bruce.

1172
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 1: Jard and I feel like it's a very intense forms

1173
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 1: of the kind that we like to see from Bruce Dern.

1174
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 6: I think we get a lot of Lowell from Bruce Dern,

1175
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 6: like being wide eyed and unblinking in a wild and

1176
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 6: uncomfortable kind of way. But a lot of that character

1177
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 6: is also just still in the script in the dialogue,

1178
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 6: like lines like the one you specific quoted Genevieve like,

1179
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 6: there are a lot of different ways to read that,

1180
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 6: but I don't think there's a way to say it

1181
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 6: and have it sound like a reasonable answer to like, no,

1182
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 6: I don't want to get your damn cantalope.

1183
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 7: This is a very obvious connection, but I think it's

1184
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 7: a good way for us to kind of continue to

1185
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 7: talk about and unpack the visuals of these two films.

1186
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:26,920
Speaker 7: But they take place on very large ships, multiple ones,

1187
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 7: and ship design is just always kind of an interesting

1188
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 7: element of sci fi films that take place in space,

1189
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 7: and obviously we're dealing with a practical effect versus CGI

1190
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 7: version of on screen ship building. So I guess maybe

1191
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 7: let's just talk through how successful we feel these respective

1192
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 7: environments are. I'll just jump on here immediately and note

1193
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 7: that in Project Help Mary, I did really enjoy that

1194
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 7: we got to see a fair amount of Rockies ship

1195
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 7: because it's a very interesting design that did not really

1196
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 7: come across or it was not something I could picture

1197
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 7: in my head when I listened to the audiobook, but

1198
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:17,479
Speaker 7: it was it was unique, you know, whereas the Hail

1199
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 7: Mary itself is like it didn't strike me as like

1200
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 7: that out of the ordinary, except with the exception of

1201
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 7: sort of the centrifugal elements that like kind of shoots

1202
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 7: out the back so that they can have gravity when

1203
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 7: they need it, which again comes from the book, and

1204
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 7: like it's kind of cool to see those translated from

1205
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 7: the page to the screen and project Hail Mary. But

1206
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 7: in silent running, like this whole ship environment is from

1207
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 7: the ground up, you know, and it is really really cool.

1208
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:48,520
Speaker 3: You know.

1209
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 7: Those geodesic domes in particular are just you know, like

1210
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 7: I said, like, if I had to be in space,

1211
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 7: this is the kind of environment I would want to

1212
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 7: be in, much more so than the Hail Mary.

1213
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't drive a dune buggy through the

1214
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 1: or boon buggy or whatever through the Hail Mary.

1215
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 7: I would take moon buggies over the Don't Go Crazy Room. Myself,

1216
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 7: I would take forests. I would take forests in space

1217
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 7: over the Don't Go Crazy Room, which I guess that's

1218
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 7: sort of a you know a parallel between these two ships.

1219
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 6: Right, yeah, I think so, except I think that Don't

1220
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:24,919
Speaker 6: Go Crazy room is specifically for the comfort and well

1221
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 6: being of the astronauts, whereas the forests are, in theory,

1222
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 6: you know, for themselves being preserved for themselves, and I

1223
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:35,640
Speaker 6: really kind of think Bruce darn is just you know,

1224
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 6: taking over one of those spaces for himself. Regardless. A

1225
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 6: thing that I think is interesting is just I feel

1226
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 6: like the ship in Project hel Mary is based almost

1227
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 6: on a design esthetic going back to like the earliest

1228
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 6: human space ships, you know, the like the moon landing,

1229
01:05:55,400 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 6: the close quarters and everything being strapped to wall, the

1230
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 6: lack of space to move around in for the most part,

1231
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 6: and god, I kind of as likable as Ryland is

1232
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 6: meant to be I was with Rocky. His living space

1233
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 6: is just a catastrophe. Needs to pick up after himself

1234
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 6: and get your damn socks off the floor of your

1235
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:15,919
Speaker 6: grown ass man.

1236
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:20,919
Speaker 7: Which remember, towards the end, Lill just has food everywhere. Yeah,

1237
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:22,439
Speaker 7: he's totally trashed to the ship.

1238
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 6: So similar that is that is in fact a similar vibe,

1239
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 6: but the interior the ship in silent running at least,

1240
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 6: it feels much more like working in a warehouse, you know.

1241
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 6: It's the spaces are just so huge, not I mean

1242
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 6: not even thinking about the dome. I'm thinking about the

1243
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 6: fact that there is enough room to chase his moon

1244
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 6: buggies around in and to some degree to me. The

1245
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 6: Project Hail Mary ship feels more real because it feels

1246
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 6: more like real ships I've actually seen, you know, filmed

1247
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 6: interiors of it seems like just more how how people

1248
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 6: would build a ship, which makes Rocky's ship particularly interesting.

1249
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:01,800
Speaker 6: Of course, it's not how humans would build a ship.

1250
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 3: It's like a harp. It's like a ship.

1251
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 8: The controls seem like a very harp, like right, little

1252
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 8: strings or something he's plucking on. They do stuff, and

1253
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 8: I do with the I mean, I also love the

1254
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 8: design of the ship and silent running and almost sort

1255
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 8: of presages the ship. And really Scott's alien and that

1256
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 8: it's and that it is imagining a space that ordinary

1257
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:26,919
Speaker 8: people go to work in, right, I mean, because that's

1258
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 8: what the crew does. In Alien, they're what you're, working

1259
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 8: class people doing a job. And uh and there is

1260
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 8: that sense too in we don't necessarily know what that

1261
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:40,400
Speaker 8: job exactly is. Again, jennifitting lost luggage.

1262
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 3: But the.

1263
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 8: Government sends up one hippie for guys, for guys to torture.

1264
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 8: That's part of a part of a government program.

1265
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 6: Oh my god, are you saying Lowell is the Don't

1266
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 6: Go Crazy Room? He's he's just like a fixture of

1267
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 6: the ship. That's why he's been there for eight years

1268
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:01,040
Speaker 6: and everybody else is in there for six months.

1269
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 3: It's a guy for them to push around.

1270
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 7: Here's another thing that is maybe another little connection as contrasts,

1271
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 7: but is Silent Running a government mission because it's American

1272
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 7: Airlines branding right on these ships, you know, like it

1273
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 7: seems like a corporate project, which again kind of raises

1274
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 7: the question of why are we preserving these forests? You know,

1275
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 7: like if we look at this as some sort of

1276
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 7: you know, giant corporate project, it's like, so this is

1277
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 7: just their little like side conservation effort, you know, the

1278
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 7: American Airlines gardens or something, and that they decide they

1279
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 7: don't want to do anymore, whereas in Project Hell Mary,

1280
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:45,640
Speaker 7: it is an international cooperation to save the world, you know.

1281
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 7: And I don't think the movie really touches on this,

1282
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 7: but the astronauts are from three different countries.

1283
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 8: Do you think that Silent Running is then kind of

1284
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 8: a commentary on corporate philanthropy measures?

1285
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 3: Then with them.

1286
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:03,600
Speaker 1: Coming around, there's a lot of there's a lot of

1287
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,759
Speaker 1: branding because Becaus branded, there's Coca Cola and Dow Chemical,

1288
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 1: which is thanked you know in this environmentally conscious movie,

1289
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 1: thanks dal Chemical in the closing credits. So how much

1290
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 1: of that is commentary? But very well could be.

1291
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 6: Well, I the Dow Chemical thing in particular is going

1292
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 6: to bring up because it's kind of a tragically sad

1293
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:28,120
Speaker 6: answer to Jenney's question about, uh, why is this corporation

1294
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 6: preserving a bunch of trees? Dow Chemical. This this was

1295
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,600
Speaker 6: in an era where plastics were not yet common, but

1296
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 6: all of those cargo, the big gray cargo containers and

1297
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:42,600
Speaker 6: the moon buggies are made out of plastic and the

1298
01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 6: plastic was all provided by Dow Chemical. Because their their

1299
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 6: corporate relationship. Managers said they could use some good publicity

1300
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:55,160
Speaker 6: because they were at the time known for the being

1301
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:58,559
Speaker 6: the last remaining provider of agent orange to the government.

1302
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 6: So they were looking for ways to you know, brighten

1303
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 6: up their image and make it more fun. And I

1304
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 6: could easily see American airlines, you know, every time you

1305
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 6: turn around, like BP oil is sponsoring like some fun thing,

1306
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 6: some some piece of research or like paticormorant on the

1307
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 6: head day to kind of counteract the terrible image that

1308
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 6: chemical and the fuel companies have because of the terrible

1309
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:28,680
Speaker 6: environmental damage they do. I'd easily see American Airlines and

1310
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 6: doubt Chemical teaming up save the trees. Okay, this this

1311
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 6: project isn't making money anymore, nuke the trees. So I

1312
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:43,720
Speaker 6: guess just to sign off, like we could briefly mention that,

1313
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:47,879
Speaker 6: you know, the equivalent in Project Hail Mary, the equivalent

1314
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 6: of the Joan Biaz songs is instead you know, tracks

1315
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:55,880
Speaker 6: from the Beatles and I Cantina Turner and Ella Fitzgerald

1316
01:10:55,920 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 6: and Neil Diamond and Scorpions and Chris Christofferson. Like this

1317
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,719
Speaker 6: is a very eclectic soundtrack that's just kind of full

1318
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:07,799
Speaker 6: of like, let's have fun with the music drops. The

1319
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 6: people making this movie have a lot of goodwill, you know,

1320
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:14,599
Speaker 6: to get a lot of and a lot of money

1321
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:18,559
Speaker 6: to get music. But you know, in comparison with like

1322
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 6: let's get the predominant like folk protest singer of our

1323
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 6: day to do songs for this movie, I think it's

1324
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:26,440
Speaker 6: an interesting contrast.

1325
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 7: I knew there would be a Beatles needle drop because

1326
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 7: the Probes being called Beatles and being named after the

1327
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:37,240
Speaker 7: Beatles comes right from the book, so I knew we

1328
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:39,519
Speaker 7: would be getting one. But I think two of Us

1329
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 7: was a pretty inspired choice in that particular moment.

1330
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, the melancholy of on our way home, We're going

1331
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 6: home as lyrics, it's very very well timed. I'll take

1332
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 6: that over Joan Bias singing about silent running any day exactly.

1333
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:56,720
Speaker 6: But the last point I wanted to make on comparison

1334
01:11:56,800 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 6: is just both of these movies ultimately have the the

1335
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:04,160
Speaker 6: main characters facing suicide. You know, these are both movies

1336
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 6: about what are you willing to sacrifice? Under what circumstances

1337
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:10,719
Speaker 6: are you you willing to give up your life? Both

1338
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:14,559
Speaker 6: of these movies have the characters pretty prominently deciding that

1339
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 6: Earth can get bent and that they're not interested in

1340
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:20,920
Speaker 6: like anything they have to say or and going back,

1341
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:24,559
Speaker 6: and both of them have to deal with just the

1342
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 6: question of when are you willing to take your own

1343
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:31,960
Speaker 6: life to, you know, to ease your suffering or your

1344
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 6: possibility of future suffering. Just just a kind of a

1345
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:37,799
Speaker 6: dark element for both of these movies.

1346
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 7: I would think, yes, And I would argue that one

1347
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 7: engages with that darkness much more openly than the other does.

1348
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:48,680
Speaker 7: And that's fine, it's fine, I'm not mad about it.

1349
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 6: I'm all right, you've convinced me. I'm going to call

1350
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 6: up Alex Garland and ask if he wants to remake

1351
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:59,840
Speaker 6: Project hell Mary. So until that version is available to watch,

1352
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 6: you can watch Silent running via streaming rental in the

1353
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:06,320
Speaker 6: usual places, and it's available on DVD and Blu Ray.

1354
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 6: Project Hail Mary has already been in theaters for a

1355
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:11,640
Speaker 6: week plus at the point where we're recording this, but

1356
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 6: as a recording date, it's still enjoying enough box office success.

1357
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 6: We're guessing it's still going to be in theaters for

1358
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 6: a while. We'll be right back with your next picture show.

1359
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,480
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Speaker 4: Rules and restrictions apply.

1370
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:02,679
Speaker 6: Finally, it's time to recommend a film or film related

1371
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 6: item that compliments this set of episodes. We call it

1372
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:07,599
Speaker 6: your next Picture Show in the hopes that it'll put

1373
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 6: some interesting choices on your radar. We had quite a

1374
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 6: few conversations about different movies to pair Project Hail Mary with.

1375
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 6: There were a few different options, and all of them

1376
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,680
Speaker 6: would make good companions for this. Scott, you want to

1377
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 6: kick us off?

1378
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:23,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I too.

1379
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:28,599
Speaker 8: That came to mind were other movies about missions space,

1380
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:33,080
Speaker 8: missions to save an Earth that was going to die otherwise,

1381
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:37,120
Speaker 8: I mean Sunshine, the Danny Boyle movie is one. Interstellar,

1382
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:40,800
Speaker 8: the Christopher Nolan movie would is another. But I think

1383
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,600
Speaker 8: I think Sunshine would have been a particularly fun comparison,

1384
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 8: just because tonally it could not be, you know, more

1385
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 8: different than Project Hail Mary in terms of just the

1386
01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:55,080
Speaker 8: gravity of the situation, that existential nature of it, the

1387
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:59,439
Speaker 8: oddity of it, the certainly the pleasure defying nature of

1388
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:03,680
Speaker 8: Sunshine is much different from what Lord and Miller do

1389
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 8: with Project Hail Mary. It's a film that when I

1390
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:11,160
Speaker 8: saw it first, and I think Keith shows this feeling too,

1391
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 8: that hasn'tantly dissipated the like it succeeds much more in

1392
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:18,799
Speaker 8: the setup than the payoff. It's very hard to really

1393
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:22,600
Speaker 8: jibe with the last third or so of Sunshine, but

1394
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:25,400
Speaker 8: it is such an intriguing idea and it's so you know,

1395
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 8: done with a lot of visual opinachh so it would

1396
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:30,120
Speaker 8: have been a kind of a nice study in contrast.

1397
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:33,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, we also brought up Duncan Jones Moon, which is

1398
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:36,880
Speaker 6: a movie I like an awful lot that's also about

1399
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 6: a lone person in space. This is one of the

1400
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:41,759
Speaker 6: movies that I kind of have to believe anybody listening

1401
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 6: to this podcast is familiar with Moon, and I don't

1402
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:47,520
Speaker 6: want to say too much about it because it's a

1403
01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:50,800
Speaker 6: movie that is all in the experience, but it does

1404
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:54,679
Speaker 6: have some of the same elements of lonely man in space,

1405
01:15:54,840 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 6: a blue collar worker, and certainly non human semi personal companion.

1406
01:16:01,479 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 6: So we talked about that a little bit, and if

1407
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:05,400
Speaker 6: you haven't seen Moon, you should see Moon.

1408
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:08,679
Speaker 7: I revisited Moon just a couple of years ago and

1409
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:13,680
Speaker 7: definitely second that recommendation. And then I'll just note when

1410
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:16,360
Speaker 7: we were talking about pairings for this, I made a

1411
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 7: somewhat format breaking suggestion in noting that the Martian, which

1412
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 7: you've already talked about, was a very very early Next

1413
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 7: Picture Show movie, and it was a new release, and

1414
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:31,719
Speaker 7: we someone notoriously paired with the film John Carter of Mars,

1415
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 7: which at that point was only like less than ten

1416
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:37,679
Speaker 7: less than five years old. I think we were still

1417
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 7: figuring out the nuances of our format.

1418
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:42,240
Speaker 3: It had already been established as a classic.

1419
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:47,120
Speaker 7: But I did suggest it might be fun to bring

1420
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:49,679
Speaker 7: The Martian back on the other side of the classic

1421
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:52,800
Speaker 7: new film pairing. I don't know, maybe it would be

1422
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 7: too early to call The Martian a classic, but it'd

1423
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 7: be interesting to put these two films adapted from the

1424
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:04,760
Speaker 7: same author, by the same screenwriter, but by two different directors.

1425
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 7: Had to had to kind of, you know, it would

1426
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 7: be an interesting examination of what the director specifically brings

1427
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:14,240
Speaker 7: to the material.

1428
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 6: I truly don't want to know. Like if I if

1429
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 6: I talked about The Martian for you know, thirty forty

1430
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:23,000
Speaker 6: five minutes for a podcast and then went back and

1431
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 6: listened to the previous podcast where we talked about it,

1432
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:28,439
Speaker 6: would it all be the same stuff? Would it be

1433
01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 6: horribly contradictory? Which basically which way? Would I look like

1434
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 6: a fool? So I think that wraps on talking about

1435
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 6: possible pairings that we rejected. But Keith, you had one

1436
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:41,600
Speaker 6: more thing that you wanted to recommend that wasn't a

1437
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:42,599
Speaker 6: pairing that we discussed.

1438
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:43,080
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1439
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 1: If you get a chance to check out Douglas Trumble's

1440
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 1: other film, Brainstorm, I would highly recommend it is it's

1441
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:50,519
Speaker 1: not It's kind of a mess of a film. I

1442
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:53,960
Speaker 1: was a trouble production. Nali Wood died before it was

1443
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 1: fully finished, and a lot of the ideas are it's

1444
01:17:57,280 --> 01:17:59,080
Speaker 1: kind of a lot of ideas they don't always fit together.

1445
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:02,840
Speaker 1: But it's very early attempt to play with the idea

1446
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:06,320
Speaker 1: of virtual reality, where there's this device, a lots you

1447
01:18:06,439 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 1: experience other people's experiences, and those scenes, the scenes of

1448
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 1: the of the immersive virtual reality stuff are amazing. I

1449
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 1: mean I saw it on seventy millimeter at the Music

1450
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:19,559
Speaker 1: Box when they had their seventy millimeter Film Festival, and like,

1451
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:22,200
Speaker 1: for those moments alone, it's worth going to. And it's

1452
01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:24,639
Speaker 1: just it's just a weird movie if you like, if

1453
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:27,800
Speaker 1: you like very odd movie going experiences, I would highly

1454
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:28,400
Speaker 1: recommend it.

1455
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:31,920
Speaker 8: The conceit for that movie alone just completely captured my

1456
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,800
Speaker 8: imagination when I was a young person, Like, I really

1457
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:38,640
Speaker 8: dug that, you know, the idea of like experiencing a

1458
01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:42,040
Speaker 8: roller coaster through the eyes of somebody else, it's like,

1459
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:44,879
Speaker 8: you know, not even the eyes, the whole the senses

1460
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 8: of someone else's just so it was so kind of

1461
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:49,360
Speaker 8: such an exciting concept at the time.

1462
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 6: Well, I love exciting concepts and I love weird movie

1463
01:18:52,360 --> 01:19:01,800
Speaker 6: going experiences. So thank you for those recommendations. All that's

1464
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:04,080
Speaker 6: it for this edition to the Next Picture Show, Scott,

1465
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:05,519
Speaker 6: Can you tell us about our next pairing?

1466
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:08,760
Speaker 8: The new movie The Drama with Zendeia and Robert Pattinson

1467
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:12,639
Speaker 8: has a premise so provocative that the distributor A twenty

1468
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:16,400
Speaker 8: four treated it like a surprise twist. That should give

1469
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 8: you some indication of how dark a secret Zendia's character

1470
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:21,759
Speaker 8: has been carrying in the lead up to her wedding

1471
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:24,800
Speaker 8: to Pattinson's character, and how much it threatens their long

1472
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 8: term partnership. This big first act revelation calls to mind

1473
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:32,479
Speaker 8: David Cronenberg's two thousand and five thriller A History of Violence,

1474
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:36,479
Speaker 8: which stars Vigil Mortensen as Tom Stall, a Midwestern diner

1475
01:19:36,520 --> 01:19:39,600
Speaker 8: owner and seemingly wholesome family man. Who's been hiding a

1476
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:43,599
Speaker 8: much less wholesome past in Philadelphia's criminal underworld. On our

1477
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:46,839
Speaker 8: next set of episodes, we'll compare and contrast The Drama

1478
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:50,640
Speaker 8: and a History of Violence, two films about intimate relationships

1479
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 8: that threaten to unravel when it becomes clear to one

1480
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 8: partner that they really, really, really don't know everything about

1481
01:19:58,000 --> 01:19:59,599
Speaker 8: the person they've chosen to spend the rest of their

1482
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:00,120
Speaker 8: life with.

1483
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:03,280
Speaker 6: For now, we welcome your feedback on Silent Running, Project

1484
01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:05,560
Speaker 6: hell Mary, and anything else film related you'd like to

1485
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 6: talk about. Email us at comments at expictureshow dot net,

1486
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:11,040
Speaker 6: or leave us a voicemail at seven seven three two

1487
01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 6: three four nine seven three zero before we close out

1488
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:16,559
Speaker 6: this week's episode. Where can we find everyone these days?

1489
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:20,160
Speaker 7: Genevieve, you can find my work at vulture dot com,

1490
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:23,639
Speaker 7: where I am the TV editor mostly behind the scenes,

1491
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:28,479
Speaker 7: and you can find my Blue Sky account that I

1492
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:32,280
Speaker 7: will maybe one day post on again at Genevieve Cooski Keith.

1493
01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:35,080
Speaker 1: I'm a freelance writer. You can I write for places

1494
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:38,479
Speaker 1: like Vulture and TV Guide, sometimes the ringer, sometimes late,

1495
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:41,719
Speaker 1: but mostly you can find my work at the Reveal.

1496
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:45,599
Speaker 1: That's the Reveal dot film, which is the newsletter that

1497
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:50,799
Speaker 1: I co write with Scott Tobias, and we are publishing essays, reviews, lists,

1498
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:54,000
Speaker 1: We've got some bespoke audio commentaries. I even have a

1499
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:57,240
Speaker 1: podcast called The laser Age, which is about science fiction films.

1500
01:20:57,240 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 1: And our very first episode was about Silent Running with

1501
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:02,880
Speaker 1: my special guest John Hodgman. So if you enjoyed this

1502
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:05,160
Speaker 1: episode and you were like I need to know more

1503
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:08,320
Speaker 1: about Silent Running, possibly with some John Hodgmen commentary, that's

1504
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 1: got that episode and you can find me on Blue

1505
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:13,759
Speaker 1: Sky at k fifth three thousand, Scott, how about.

1506
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:16,479
Speaker 8: You, Yeah, I really want a second checking out Keith's

1507
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:18,599
Speaker 8: Silent Running episode with John Hoddron.

1508
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:19,880
Speaker 3: I mean, John Hodgroen is.

1509
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 8: Just a great talker and film mined. So this is

1510
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:27,679
Speaker 8: just right up, Azalia. That was a really good start

1511
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:31,040
Speaker 8: for that podcast project. You can find me, of course

1512
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:34,680
Speaker 8: at the Revealed dot film with Keith, and you can

1513
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:37,240
Speaker 8: also find my work at the New York Times and

1514
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:41,400
Speaker 8: Vulture Guardian another fine publications. You find me on Blue

1515
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 8: Skai at Scott Tobias Tasha.

1516
01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:47,320
Speaker 6: You can find my writing at Polygon dot com, where

1517
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 6: I am the entertainment editor. You can find me biscuiting.

1518
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:55,720
Speaker 6: Do we have a verb for this action? Yet? From

1519
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 6: time to time blooping, blooping, you can find me blooping.

1520
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 6: I can't say that with a straight face. You'll find

1521
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:03,840
Speaker 6: me blooping over on Blue Sky at Tash Robinson, I

1522
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:08,400
Speaker 6: talked to Ryan Gosling and Christopher Miller and Phil Lord

1523
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:12,719
Speaker 6: and Sandra Huler and Juggidard and Andy were for Project

1524
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:15,839
Speaker 6: Hail Murray and I have been putting up snippets of

1525
01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:19,880
Speaker 6: those interviews on polygon dot com. They're a lot of fun.

1526
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 6: We did not talk at all about the absolutely nutbar

1527
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:27,599
Speaker 6: directoral method that Lord and Miller used on this movie,

1528
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:32,479
Speaker 6: where they just put earbuds in Sandra Hueller and Ryan

1529
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:35,479
Speaker 6: Gosling's ears and would just direct them to improv with

1530
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:38,360
Speaker 6: each other, with Lord Miller whispering in their ears like okay,

1531
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 6: now say this, now do this. It sounds so much

1532
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:44,840
Speaker 6: like directing a silent movie. Sandra Hueller told me about it,

1533
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:47,840
Speaker 6: and I had to ask Lord Miller about it and

1534
01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:49,920
Speaker 6: Ryan Gosling about it. So that was a fun piece

1535
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:53,520
Speaker 6: to write. Ryan Gosling says it was his idea, so

1536
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:56,679
Speaker 6: there you go. But a lot more improv on project,

1537
01:22:56,680 --> 01:22:58,200
Speaker 6: Hail Mary, than I would think about it. You can

1538
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:00,960
Speaker 6: find that all at polygon dot com. You can stay

1539
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:03,200
Speaker 6: updated on the Next Picture Show at Next Picture Show

1540
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 6: dot net and on blue Sky at the Next Picture Show.

1541
01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:09,639
Speaker 6: Get bonus content and opendiscussion at patreon dot com slash

1542
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 6: Next Picture Show, and as always, we appreciate your ratings

1543
01:23:12,479 --> 01:23:15,840
Speaker 6: and reviews on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever you

1544
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:18,080
Speaker 6: listen to the show. Thanks to Dan the Bake Jakes

1545
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 6: for his assistance in producing this podcast. The Next Picture

1546
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:22,839
Speaker 6: Show is proud to be part of the Film Spotting

1547
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 6: family of podcasts. Please tune in next time. That was

1548
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:37,599
Speaker 6: a good movie.

1549
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:39,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I seen here before once