Speaker 1: This is How Men Think with brooks Like and Gavin
Speaker 1: to Grab and I heard Radio podcast. Welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of How Men Think. My name is brooks Like
Speaker 1: and I'm fine solo today. We've got no Gavin, We've
Speaker 1: got no Rick, no Dmitri, no Ryan. But we have
Speaker 1: a super special guest co hosting. I'm gonna grant you
Speaker 1: co host privileges today, Buddy. I feel very special. Yeah
Speaker 1: you should, and I'm I'm super excited. This is I've
Speaker 1: done a lot of research on you. I've because I
Speaker 1: follow your path. I see myself a lot in your life.
Speaker 1: You're a little bit further down the road. But we
Speaker 1: have Mr Dave Hollis with us today in studio. Dave. Welcome, Buddy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: by man. So I'll give our listeners. For any of
Speaker 1: our listeners that don't know who Dave is, I'll give
Speaker 1: you a little background. He is the CEO of the
Speaker 1: Hollis Company, a company that exists to help people build
Speaker 1: better lives. He is the husband to Rachel, a father
Speaker 1: of four. Right Jackson Sawyer Ford to no Uh. Together
Speaker 1: with his wife You, You and Rachel how the podcast
Speaker 1: Rise Together, which is Number one podcast, Number one health
Speaker 1: podcast on iTunes. You're previously previously president of distribution for
Speaker 1: Walt Disney Studio Studios until you left that company, um,
Speaker 1: and you started you wanted to expand the Hollist company.
Speaker 1: That's right, which is the company you have with you
Speaker 1: in your wife. You remember the Motion Picture Academy. You've
Speaker 1: been advisor, on board, a member of technology incubator, fan
Speaker 1: Dango Labs, philanthropy, film charity. I mean, this guy has
Speaker 1: done it all. This bio I could go on for days.
Speaker 1: Don't read the bio anymore. I love it. I love
Speaker 1: it though, because I love like I was an athlete
Speaker 1: and now I want to have a title of list
Speaker 1: of all these things that I've worked on too. So
Speaker 1: I look at this, I'm like, man, this guy's Superman.
Speaker 1: I got Superman sitting here with me, and I get
Speaker 1: to pick his brain for the next hour. It's so
Speaker 1: funny because I am now a couple of years, as
Speaker 1: you mentioned, into having transitioned away from what for me
Speaker 1: was a twenty plus year career that started as a
Speaker 1: you know, an assistant and finished as this head of distribution,
Speaker 1: president of distribution the film studio. I worked in these
Speaker 1: different things that you could read on a on a
Speaker 1: list of resume, and the weight that they carried two
Speaker 1: and a half years ago was extraordinary in terms of
Speaker 1: them being an anchor to my identity and what my
Speaker 1: worthiness and affirming me. And now two years later, I
Speaker 1: can tell you what, as much as it's interesting for
Speaker 1: me to hear you read them, and I have some
Speaker 1: great memories from a lot of the things that I
Speaker 1: did in that space, they have very little weights relatively
Speaker 1: speaking to where they did have a ton just a
Speaker 1: second ago. I love that. So what I love about
Speaker 1: that is I'm currently in the process in my life,
Speaker 1: on my journey about liberating energy that's still tied up
Speaker 1: in my hockey career and what it's And so that's
Speaker 1: why I'm excited about this discussion. Is you've been able
Speaker 1: to do that. You have had that identity, this this
Speaker 1: worked with Walt Disney. How cool is Walt Disney? And
Speaker 1: you you were the man at Walt Disney and now
Speaker 1: you let that go, and how does that change your
Speaker 1: identity and how do you find peace with like almost
Speaker 1: removing those clothes moving forward? Um, So I want to
Speaker 1: dive into that. Your whole story is super inspiring and
Speaker 1: I think our listeners are going to be able to
Speaker 1: find themselves in your story because I think more and
Speaker 1: more people these days go through tours of duty, they
Speaker 1: go through pivots in life where they switch not only
Speaker 1: careers but identities of the Yeah, it's interesting because I
Speaker 1: was watching a couple of things that you've posted recently
Speaker 1: and of the things that I'm rolling out to you
Speaker 1: know do in this lead up to the book. I
Speaker 1: was looking forward to seeing you in part because of
Speaker 1: it just acknowledging. Man, I remember when I was as
Speaker 1: close to the transition as you are now, and how
Speaker 1: much different it feels. So like time ends up being
Speaker 1: one of the greatest gifts. Unfortunately, it just requires it
Speaker 1: to pass right. But man, it's so different six months
Speaker 1: out versus two years out. So how far are you
Speaker 1: right now? I'm to two years ish out. I mean
Speaker 1: the decision we made this decision as I had been
Speaker 1: in the six or seventh year as the head of sales,
Speaker 1: I recognized, you know what, I need to do something
Speaker 1: to chase growth in a way that pushes me away
Speaker 1: from all of the certainty, the safety security that I
Speaker 1: am currently connected to. At the same time that my wife,
Speaker 1: who had been building a business was at a tipping
Speaker 1: point where she said, Hey, as the visionary, I need
Speaker 1: an integrator operator. You have that as a set of
Speaker 1: special skills, and so we made a jump and we
Speaker 1: made this decision in kind of late two thousand seventeen,
Speaker 1: officially left Disney at the end of May and eighteen,
Speaker 1: and here we are, you know, early twenty where it's
Speaker 1: it's a decision that we made a long time ago,
Speaker 1: but practically speaking, we're like a year and a half
Speaker 1: in So how long did that decision, in that discussion
Speaker 1: between you and your wife persist before you actually committed
Speaker 1: to it. We started talking about it three or four
Speaker 1: years before the decision, But at the time when we
Speaker 1: were talking about it, I was entertaining it in a yeah, ma, yeah,
Speaker 1: sure like I if you had asked me at the
Speaker 1: time the conversation started, if I thought I'd work at
Speaker 1: the Walt Disney Company for the rest of my life,
Speaker 1: the answer was yes. I was drawing where do you
Speaker 1: think you'll be ten years from now? Vision? And it
Speaker 1: was always about some next level, some next job. And
Speaker 1: I had been the beneficiary in the Walt Disney Company
Speaker 1: of for the first ten years, having a different job
Speaker 1: every year for the first ten, so my professional l
Speaker 1: A d D was satisfied so regularly. I was always
Speaker 1: drinking out of a fire hydrant. There was something exciting,
Speaker 1: and what I didn't realize was I was being afforded
Speaker 1: an opportunity to grow because of not having the set
Speaker 1: of skills that were required to do the job well.
Speaker 1: When I first got the job that fed me, that
Speaker 1: were that provided me just a ton of fulfillment. And
Speaker 1: in the last job that I had, though it was
Speaker 1: the best job on paper and optics wise, after the
Speaker 1: learning curve was conquered, around three or you know, three
Speaker 1: years in, I was in this place where I had
Speaker 1: stopped growing because of the strength of my team, because
Speaker 1: of the strength of the slate like Disney at that
Speaker 1: time had acquired Pixar, Marvel, Lucas and in addition to
Speaker 1: Disney had this leverage in selling movies to theaters. That
Speaker 1: transformed after I figure out how to do the job
Speaker 1: with the strength of my team and support of the
Speaker 1: best leadership on Earth, I was. I was scoring well
Speaker 1: on tests without having to study right, and that was
Speaker 1: where it was like, oh, I gotta go. That was
Speaker 1: really as much a catalyst as the opportunity to jump
Speaker 1: was that, Like, the reason why I had to go
Speaker 1: was I'm not being fed here any longer, and I
Speaker 1: am making choices in the absence of growth that are
Speaker 1: compromising my relationship with my wife and my ability to
Speaker 1: father and parent my children. Well, so that that brings
Speaker 1: up what I'm super interested in asking you about, is
Speaker 1: I know how massively successful you and Rachel are. How
Speaker 1: did it work the transition to your relationship, because my
Speaker 1: concern would be did it hurt your relationship when you're
Speaker 1: working together? And in some ways she is the powerhouse,
Speaker 1: and I have concerns about the switch of the masculine
Speaker 1: and the feminine. Oh yeah, We've talked about that on
Speaker 1: the show. Yeah. And I argue with these men all
Speaker 1: the time because they repeatedly say to me, it's fine
Speaker 1: if the woman makes more money, and it's fine if
Speaker 1: she's the breadwinner, it's fine if she's more successful, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, it's not. Yeah. Well, Number one, I
Speaker 1: was hyper triggered by what happened in the first year
Speaker 1: of us working together in that I left something where
Speaker 1: my title or my salary or the way that I
Speaker 1: was the primary breadwinner informed a piece of my identity
Speaker 1: that gave me worth, and in leaving something to pursue
Speaker 1: this work together, I was leaving behind that identity, but
Speaker 1: also are having come together. We made this decision before
Speaker 1: a book that she wrote called Girl Wash Her Face
Speaker 1: came out, but it ended up becoming the second biggest
Speaker 1: selling book of the year and went on to sell
Speaker 1: about four million copies. That was a lynchpin, big domino.
Speaker 1: Every other thing that happens in life and in our
Speaker 1: business is now the question is how do you pour
Speaker 1: more gas on all of it? But from a provision
Speaker 1: for family perspective, she had a year the first year
Speaker 1: we were working together that outpaced the five previous years
Speaker 1: combined of my very successful time at the Walt Disney Company.
Speaker 1: And for me, it actually triggered this question. Now that
Speaker 1: she doesn't need me, will she still want me? Yeah? Exactly,
Speaker 1: And thank you so much for saying that, because I
Speaker 1: have such a hard time with these men getting them
Speaker 1: to admit that. Well, I'm going through that right now.
Speaker 1: So my when I was playing hockey, I out earned
Speaker 1: my wife, and then two years ago I stopped playing hockey,
Speaker 1: and now she vastly out earns me. Because we need
Speaker 1: more listeners in this podcast. But she vastly out earns
Speaker 1: me right now, and so I I don't struggle with
Speaker 1: that so much. This is where Amy and I sometimes
Speaker 1: butt heads on. This is that because I want my
Speaker 1: wife to succeed more than anything. She earns everything she gets,
Speaker 1: and if I'm a small part of supporting her, and
Speaker 1: I don't even know if i'm I don't empower my wife.
Speaker 1: She doesn't need me for anything, but like being part
Speaker 1: of her journey, being married to her, I'm part of
Speaker 1: her journey, and I want for her everything she has earned.
Speaker 1: Now on the flip side, I don't compare myself to her,
Speaker 1: but damn it, I still want to earn for myself.
Speaker 1: I'm still a proud man. I still want to contribute
Speaker 1: to the world and I want to I want to
Speaker 1: earn money as well, but I want to do it
Speaker 1: in a way that's authentic to my mission. And I
Speaker 1: want to tip my cap to you for leaving a job,
Speaker 1: a career with security, with certainty, with identity, with prestige,
Speaker 1: with notoriety. To now, almost from the outside, it looks
Speaker 1: like you are going to support your wife in this,
Speaker 1: But I don't think that's why you did it? I
Speaker 1: don't want to now how did you deal in that year?
Speaker 1: Did you? Yeah? Did you? I don't feel like you
Speaker 1: went to support here, You're like, hey, I'm coming in
Speaker 1: and this is a partnership or was it? Like it was?
Speaker 1: It was definitely a partnership. And I can tell you,
Speaker 1: like the one of the weirder things that was happening
Speaker 1: in my life was that I was in this weird
Speaker 1: bridge between thirty and forty. So my big milestone fortieth
Speaker 1: birthdays come the kind of questions that happened at a birthday.
Speaker 1: They aren't lasting two or three days. They are perpetually
Speaker 1: in my head. Why are you on this planet? Why
Speaker 1: have you been afforded these gifts and not in a
Speaker 1: posture of needing to use them? What will it mean
Speaker 1: twenty years from now if you continue to not have
Speaker 1: to use them like you are not using them today?
Speaker 1: For how you feel about yourself when you're by yourself?
Speaker 1: And and also i'd add to that, who suffers if
Speaker 1: you don't use them? And who suffers if you don't
Speaker 1: use them? Right? So I start connecting to this reality
Speaker 1: that I'm living out my literal greatest fear, which is
Speaker 1: not utilizing my potential. Right I have been given these gifts,
Speaker 1: I am not using them. And now I have the
Speaker 1: chance of getting to the end of my life where
Speaker 1: my legacy is hung not on having maximized everything that
Speaker 1: was given to me, but instead doing things that made
Speaker 1: sense to the rest of them, but at the expense
Speaker 1: of me feeling full. And so I have to go
Speaker 1: on a pursuit of like what would actually provide me
Speaker 1: a different kind of a feeling and what I would
Speaker 1: you know, come back to, is I gotta be in
Speaker 1: a position where I am uncomfortable, where I have a
Speaker 1: chance to fail. Right like I was not in a
Speaker 1: position because of the strength of the intellectual property, the team,
Speaker 1: the leadership to fail on the whole there was things
Speaker 1: were too good, and in the absence of being able
Speaker 1: to fail, I wasn't growing. But also I'm not like man,
Speaker 1: I don't like to fail. But I am now in
Speaker 1: a small business where that's just like the price of
Speaker 1: entry is failure to simplified. Did that get boring before?
Speaker 1: And now it's not. And the thing is I I
Speaker 1: tried to convince myself that I could like endure boring
Speaker 1: periods because of the parties, because of the title, because
Speaker 1: of the money, because of being a member of the academy,
Speaker 1: because of because of right, and those things they did
Speaker 1: at the beginning feel good, but they weren't. There wasn't
Speaker 1: depth necessarily because they're a little more shallow veneer than
Speaker 1: they are deep meaning. And so I ended up like
Speaker 1: in this transition, my my real true pursuit was how
Speaker 1: can I have impact that makes me feel a different
Speaker 1: way when I'm falling asleep at night. And so the
Speaker 1: trigger of my wife's success short term was a like man,
Speaker 1: hard thing to get through, but also a massive gift
Speaker 1: because how did you do it? And what did it feel? Like?
Speaker 1: Like I really want to know, like what did you feel?
Speaker 1: Because like I've had people say to me like a man,
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that with you because I
Speaker 1: don't want to be your purse holder, and it's like
Speaker 1: I get it, and I don't want you holding my purse. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it goes both ways. Well, I mean first just st
Speaker 1: on like the breadwinning piece. The thing that was triggering
Speaker 1: for me was truly this, like, oh, I had convinced
Speaker 1: myself as she for fifteen years was building a business
Speaker 1: that I was the backstop to her taking chances and
Speaker 1: growing the business that now that she didn't need me
Speaker 1: to take chances in our business that need being removed
Speaker 1: gave her a reason to not want to be with me,
Speaker 1: which is bananas. But the good news is in like
Speaker 1: that trigger having been one that came up, I got
Speaker 1: to actually really look at me eye and realize, this
Speaker 1: is crazy. We don't have a contingent love. Contingent love
Speaker 1: isn't even love. And so if I'm putting a contingency
Speaker 1: on her only loving me when I can provide for her,
Speaker 1: that's not even a love that I'd want in the
Speaker 1: first place. And it also doesn't even exist in that
Speaker 1: How long did that last? That sort of three months?
Speaker 1: Four months? Like, But it was a thing that like
Speaker 1: until I was processing it verbally, doing some journaling, talking
Speaker 1: out loud with her about what I was actually feeling.
Speaker 1: It was sitting in my subconscious sent away that was
Speaker 1: gnawing at me but not really coming to the surface. YEA,
Speaker 1: words to it right once, like and one of the
Speaker 1: things that helped me bring words to ith I gave
Speaker 1: you the setup of this like bridge between thirty and
Speaker 1: forty was I am in pursuit of impact and as
Speaker 1: much as Yep, I'm transitioning into someone who also is
Speaker 1: a vessel for impact by being a voice and writing books,
Speaker 1: are doing podcasts at the time. My wife is a
Speaker 1: vessel for impact, and so if I, in use using
Speaker 1: the superpowers that I have as the how person, can
Speaker 1: help her as the what person bring the what to life,
Speaker 1: well fantastic. I can satisfy this want I have for
Speaker 1: impact because I have been witnessed to the letters from
Speaker 1: people who have read the books. I've sat in the
Speaker 1: audience of the personal development conferences we've thrown. I've seen
Speaker 1: the way her coaching community responds, and if I can
Speaker 1: be complicit in helping them have those breakthroughs and transformations,
Speaker 1: I get to feel the thing I was in search
Speaker 1: that I wasn't getting in my old world. Wow, I
Speaker 1: have I have two things with that. Yeah, because I
Speaker 1: have another question about just home life. You go okay.
Speaker 1: First off, I resonate with you about the the feeling
Speaker 1: bored with comfort you want to and I resonate with
Speaker 1: it because as an athlete, I wanted to play in
Speaker 1: the games that I could possibly lose. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to play in the games that I knew I was
Speaker 1: going to win. There wasn't there wasn't discovery and personal challenge.
Speaker 1: And like I wasn't tested, my medal wasn't tested. In
Speaker 1: those games, I didn't learn about myself. So the games
Speaker 1: that were so tight that I didn't know if I
Speaker 1: was going to win or lose, I was okay with
Speaker 1: the result because I was gonna lay everything I had
Speaker 1: into it and that was the best that I could do.
Speaker 1: And the result just was, you know. And so I
Speaker 1: resonate with that, and I commend you for leaving something
Speaker 1: and not staying in it. I actually have a dear
Speaker 1: friend in my life who is staying in his job
Speaker 1: just because it affords him some freedom and some money.
Speaker 1: We have those people on the show, they're not here
Speaker 1: today and and he's he's exhausted, and he's his soul
Speaker 1: is dying, and he's like, I want to do something.
Speaker 1: I want to do something that matters to me and
Speaker 1: matters to the world, and just working this job isn't it.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people are scared to
Speaker 1: actually take that leap. And I want to commit you.
Speaker 1: That is a massive thing that you did to bet
Speaker 1: on yourself to take that leap. Um that's amazing. And
Speaker 1: inspiring in its own regard. And in my second part
Speaker 1: is what did your wife say? What did Rachel say
Speaker 1: when you brought it up to her about this? What
Speaker 1: was in your kind of subconscious all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you brought words to it? Was she like, babe, you're crazy?
Speaker 1: What are you? Is this really what you're going through? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And isn't that weird? Hout off so fast it made
Speaker 1: the three months of time where I'm toiling with this
Speaker 1: insecurity that was born out of some rejection in seventh grade.
Speaker 1: She cut it off so fast that I actually felt
Speaker 1: ridiculous for having let any time. Ten minutes of time
Speaker 1: would have been ten minutes too many to have spent
Speaker 1: with it. But she cut it off so fast, and
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I'm an idiot, let's go and die.
Speaker 1: And I felt better. But but but by the way,
Speaker 1: because I would have felt better the first day of
Speaker 1: the three months if I just brought it up, But
Speaker 1: instead I sat with it with some shame or some
Speaker 1: there was something in me even feeling the thing that
Speaker 1: made me feel weak and so not wanting to like
Speaker 1: truly own the fact that, man, I feel this thing
Speaker 1: doesn't make me weak for feeling this thing kept it
Speaker 1: as a thing that was in silence, and in silence
Speaker 1: it festered and became something that it never had to be.
Speaker 1: That makes me really want to talk about this question
Speaker 1: at home, because again I argue with these guys all
Speaker 1: the time that like, I have this career and I'm
Speaker 1: just like in this career all day long, all night long,
Speaker 1: all the time. So it really helps me in my
Speaker 1: relationship because I'm like the girliest girl, Like I can't
Speaker 1: and I'm not being dumb, but it's like I can't
Speaker 1: make the remote work. I can't and I can't open
Speaker 1: this jar, and like when he does that stuff, I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, with the hard eyes, and it's so at home.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, do you I sort of really go into
Speaker 1: those roles at home? Or maybe Rachel is different than me.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'm so curious, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: like she can she can be the strongest, like she can, Rachel.
Speaker 1: Rachel hollis me in the kitchen when I started struggling
Speaker 1: with some limiting belief for self doubt and she, you know,
Speaker 1: the best example is I'll start to get anxious about
Speaker 1: something and she is someone who has worked through her
Speaker 1: own anxiety for all of her life, and she has
Speaker 1: found a way to trace back the like where did
Speaker 1: the anxiety come from? In a way that man, she
Speaker 1: can do it for me, all right, where did you
Speaker 1: start feeling this? What were you doing? Well, let's like
Speaker 1: truly isolated once you can thing but but here, but
Speaker 1: that is like man, her kind of superpower on a
Speaker 1: stage is that kind of thing. But she also likes
Speaker 1: to throw on holy sweats and have us cuddle and like, yes,
Speaker 1: is interested in me being like a gentleman in the
Speaker 1: respect of man. I love to get her coffee every
Speaker 1: single morning. I get her coffee. Right, It's like just
Speaker 1: the thing that I do. Um, but I don't. We're
Speaker 1: we i'd say we Yeah. Sometimes fall into like more
Speaker 1: or less traditional roles. But some of the things that
Speaker 1: are traditional for us are like totally untraditional for other people.
Speaker 1: So it just kind of depends. How do you guys
Speaker 1: navigate How do you swap back and forth from work
Speaker 1: hat on to relationship? Do you put like, hey, from
Speaker 1: nine to five, it's work at and then from five
Speaker 1: o'clock on, hey, we're we're husband and wife and not
Speaker 1: at all? Like how do you not at all there are.
Speaker 1: There are things that we have committed to inside of
Speaker 1: having established relationship values and habits and routines that help
Speaker 1: us make those values come to life inside of our
Speaker 1: everyday life. So we have a standing date night every
Speaker 1: Thursday between now and the end of time. It's existed
Speaker 1: since our thirteen year old was four weeks old. So
Speaker 1: we have every Thursday. Now. The last two years of
Speaker 1: our marriage have been because of our working together, been
Speaker 1: the two best years and the two hardest years of
Speaker 1: our marriage. Right, So, our our decision to do this
Speaker 1: work has meant that there have been plenty of Thursday
Speaker 1: nights where we have been more in love than we
Speaker 1: have liked each other. Right, we have chosen, We've chosen
Speaker 1: to go on a date even though we've just had
Speaker 1: a decent amount of friction during the day. Right Like
Speaker 1: the roles that we play in the in the workplace
Speaker 1: had to be in order to make this thing work
Speaker 1: super clearly defined. Your lane is here, my lane is here.
Speaker 1: Here are the places rare that they may be where
Speaker 1: this overlaps. But otherwise you stay in your lane. I'll
Speaker 1: stay in mine. Now. I am the practical pragmatic operator
Speaker 1: integrator as a word that we use. She's the visionary,
Speaker 1: creative and so good news like that as a superpower.
Speaker 1: That's the avenger. Come together, we are good and that right,
Speaker 1: they're good. But those two roles come together mean like
Speaker 1: friction is the required ingredient to produce the good fruit.
Speaker 1: So we are friction ng all day. And sometimes that friction,
Speaker 1: as much as you try to keep it super objective
Speaker 1: just about the business, can spill into it becoming emotional
Speaker 1: and then we got to get in the car and
Speaker 1: drive to get sushi. Dude, I resonate with that so much.
Speaker 1: I think I said it the other day to my
Speaker 1: wife and Danielle. You're married, Like, there's times and it's
Speaker 1: one thing I've learned about marriage. Hey, you always love
Speaker 1: the person, but there's sometimes you just don't like the person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just so true. And that they don't like to
Speaker 1: take it the sushi to start to feel better. Oh,
Speaker 1: there are times where it doesn't. Let's be clear. We
Speaker 1: have had we've had dinner where it's our date night
Speaker 1: and we are maintaining the respectful intensity of the conversation
Speaker 1: that we were having prior to the date, only to
Speaker 1: pose it well. Jared the Server wants to describe them like, oh, welcome, Jared.
Speaker 1: I mean I get that, like, yeah, so you don't
Speaker 1: turn it off? And then I get that now. I mean,
Speaker 1: here's the thing we because we have four kids, it's
Speaker 1: like a thousand kids. Know seriously, we have a thousand
Speaker 1: children at our house. They're three to thirteen years old,
Speaker 1: and so we are really particular about sitting around the
Speaker 1: table as a family for dinner every every single chance
Speaker 1: that we can. There's technology limits like crazy in our house.
Speaker 1: We are very much about intentional time with each of them,
Speaker 1: and they are each wired unbelievably different. My oldest tentional
Speaker 1: time is super important if there was a single thing
Speaker 1: as and like if you're not yet a parent, or
Speaker 1: if you're a new parent, you want to know like
Speaker 1: what's one hack, what's one one tip. I have four
Speaker 1: kids that are wired so unbelievably differently, and intentional time
Speaker 1: pouring into the thing that they have personal passion for
Speaker 1: is the way that we accomplish. I write this this
Speaker 1: goal down every single day I am close to my children,
Speaker 1: and it is a prompt for me to spend time
Speaker 1: intentionally with each of them individually without technology. So for
Speaker 1: people listening intentional time to me. So one of my
Speaker 1: best girlfriends we talk every day for about an hour
Speaker 1: and just digging into everything, and we talk on her
Speaker 1: way to picking her son up at water Polo. But
Speaker 1: at eight o'clock, when water Polo gets out and he
Speaker 1: gets in the car, that is his. She doesn't call
Speaker 1: it this, but I know it's that's his intentional time.
Speaker 1: That's his one on one time with mom in the
Speaker 1: car for twenty minutes. None of the siblings are in
Speaker 1: the car. They get to talk about whatever that kid
Speaker 1: wants to talk about, and she is you know, we
Speaker 1: could be in the most heated discussion, but he gets
Speaker 1: in the car boom. We will continue tomorrow because that's
Speaker 1: his time. And I think her children thrive because she
Speaker 1: does that with each all three of them. Yeah, for me,
Speaker 1: it's I have the oldest to Musical theater is his jam.
Speaker 1: He like lives for it, He's got a community for it.
Speaker 1: They he loves it. And I spend more time inside
Speaker 1: of a conversation around or supporting in the audience of
Speaker 1: his musical theater. Middle son baseball is all he wants
Speaker 1: to do. So we've got a separate coach. And then
Speaker 1: there's practices. Youngest son, it's cub Scouts in the outdoors
Speaker 1: and he wants to just be in nature and run.
Speaker 1: And if I when I each day, I want to
Speaker 1: plug in with them. I meet them where they want
Speaker 1: to be met. I pour into the and into these
Speaker 1: things that they're passionate about. I thought it was gonna
Speaker 1: be one size fits all. My dad was rat, he
Speaker 1: is rad. We have four kids that I grew up
Speaker 1: inside of the I was the oldest of four, and
Speaker 1: I thought my dad was just the same dad to
Speaker 1: all four of us. And maybe he was, maybe he wasn't.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just know him as my dad.
Speaker 1: But my impression that you come into fatherhood and you
Speaker 1: just treat all your kids the same was thrown out
Speaker 1: its head when I realized, you know what, my oldest
Speaker 1: son doesn't want to play baseball or soccer or any
Speaker 1: of the sports that I had as a vision for
Speaker 1: how I was going to raise my sons. Dude, you
Speaker 1: have I think everybody in this like studio can just
Speaker 1: feel it. This guy had just has secret sauce of life. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I just want to bottle you up.
Speaker 1: So does Rachel. But I think What's what all have
Speaker 1: the balls to say is Rachel was doing it, and
Speaker 1: I think what I interpret is now you're doing it.
Speaker 1: You're with this book, and I've seen you start to
Speaker 1: do more and more. So that's why I was so
Speaker 1: interested in that in between time and how like left
Speaker 1: up that probably was, Yeah, I do want to go back,
Speaker 1: Like I appreciate Brooks the credit you're giving me for
Speaker 1: deciding to leave the company, but I do want to
Speaker 1: paint this picture because I think it's important, right I
Speaker 1: if I had left of my like decision before the
Speaker 1: seven years of time I was in the job had passed,
Speaker 1: if I had left it five years in, it would
Speaker 1: have been different. Those last two years of time where
Speaker 1: I didn't leave and I should have left. That was
Speaker 1: me descending into a lesser version of myself after having
Speaker 1: had a very successful, very productive, great dad, great husband
Speaker 1: kind of existence. I dug a ditch for myself and
Speaker 1: I found myself in that ditch. And it was inside
Speaker 1: of that while Rachel was discovering the power of personal
Speaker 1: development and was like it started truly with anxiety. She
Speaker 1: had some anxiety. She decides to go on a hunt
Speaker 1: to figure out how she could potentially change the way
Speaker 1: that she felt anxious about things, and it led her
Speaker 1: into books, and it led her into personal development conferences,
Speaker 1: and it led her into therapy. And as she found
Speaker 1: a solution for one thing, she found a solution for
Speaker 1: two more, and five more and ten more. And I
Speaker 1: just grabbed a shovel and kept digging myself a ditch
Speaker 1: because I was so frustrated about all of what feeling
Speaker 1: like I was tied to in this identity thing around
Speaker 1: a job that wasn't providing the fulfillment I was looking for.
Speaker 1: And so I had to in some ways, as she's
Speaker 1: continuing to grow, build leverage of what might happen if
Speaker 1: I didn't make the change. So some people can paint
Speaker 1: a like fantastic picture of the possibility of their future
Speaker 1: and like hold hold to it, and it can be
Speaker 1: something like a big kite that could pull you along. No,
Speaker 1: no, no no, I had to imagine a future version of
Speaker 1: myself that didn't take just drastic action to change the
Speaker 1: trajectory of my life and what might happen if I didn't.
Speaker 1: So was your marriage getting crappy at that time too?
Speaker 1: Or was it always like I'm just real blunt with it?
Speaker 1: Let's be real. No, no no, no, here's the thing. Like
Speaker 1: the turning point for me making this decision was the
Speaker 1: back end of a vacation where I in having received
Speaker 1: the first the first time I read girl Ash your Face,
Speaker 1: I decided to drink every ounce of alcohol I could
Speaker 1: possibly find because I've been being triggered by how transparent
Speaker 1: and vulnerable and honest she was about everything, including me
Speaker 1: being a jerk at the beginning of our relationship and
Speaker 1: details about our sex life that wasn't awesome, Like it's
Speaker 1: all in there and I'm hyper triggered by it while
Speaker 1: I'm as unsatisfied in my work as I was. And
Speaker 1: we got back from that trip and we sat on
Speaker 1: the edge of the bed, had the hardest conversation and
Speaker 1: best conversation of a relationship, where she said, Hey, I
Speaker 1: have growth as the number one commodity of my life period.
Speaker 1: I am going to be better tomorrow every day for
Speaker 1: the rest of my life, and I'm going to do
Speaker 1: it either with or without you. I love you. I
Speaker 1: would love for you to be with me on this,
Speaker 1: but I know I am going to do it for me.
Speaker 1: And if I continue to grow and you stay stuck,
Speaker 1: or if we're honest. Truly, I was digging a hole
Speaker 1: in a year, Will we still be going on dates
Speaker 1: in two years and we still be making out? In
Speaker 1: three years? Will we still be married? And I knew
Speaker 1: the answer the answer was no. And so I had
Speaker 1: to really connect to this vision of exchanging our kids
Speaker 1: on weekends and me having a alcohol problem and becoming
Speaker 1: an overweight, like just all of the things, where is this?
Speaker 1: And uh? And one of the things honestly that like
Speaker 1: I had to construct in my head which will sound
Speaker 1: somewhat crazy, but at forty milestone birthday, I could see
Speaker 1: sixty the milestone birthday and the idea of a dinner
Speaker 1: at sixty when my kids, who were at the time
Speaker 1: eight seven four would then be adults. Maybe they've got
Speaker 1: partners or significant others have been asked to come around
Speaker 1: a dinner table at sixty to raise a glass to me.
Speaker 1: I could see two versions of the way the story unfolds.
Speaker 1: Either they're raising a glass celebrating the way that I
Speaker 1: spent the next twenty years at a time, establishing a legacy,
Speaker 1: connecting with them, showing up for my life. Or there's
Speaker 1: a version of the story where no one comes to
Speaker 1: the dinner and the like. I mean, I could cry
Speaker 1: just thinking about that, right because I want so badly
Speaker 1: to show up for myself, but I also want to
Speaker 1: show up and be a model for who these kids
Speaker 1: deserve as a father. And it was the first thing
Speaker 1: that I had to do in that was understand why
Speaker 1: I was digging. And so it was right, here's the thing.
Speaker 1: I didn't know why, but I knew that my wife
Speaker 1: had gone to therapy to understand why she dug and
Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, I have been skeptical of
Speaker 1: every tool you've ever used. I have even resented the
Speaker 1: fact that tools work for you in a way that
Speaker 1: I didn't think they might work for me. But I
Speaker 1: will go sit in the therapist office to try and
Speaker 1: get some of the answers. And this answer key in
Speaker 1: the back of the book, because I am so stuck
Speaker 1: right now, I have no other choice. So again, like
Speaker 1: I'm coming way back to I appreciate the man, how
Speaker 1: rad that you decided to make this leap. I made
Speaker 1: the leap to save my life and my marriage. I
Speaker 1: get it, but you still made it. And the fact
Speaker 1: that you still that you did these things, and I
Speaker 1: resonate with that. I've tried a dozen things that my
Speaker 1: wife tried months or years before me and said, hey,
Speaker 1: can you this is this has really helped me. I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm I'll figure it out, like I'll Men,
Speaker 1: I think are very internal. We internalize things, We go
Speaker 1: with things. Were like, that's like the dumbest thing about
Speaker 1: dudes ever. We have to deal with you guys all
Speaker 1: the time because we are the opposite, super emotive and
Speaker 1: like and you're all just burying that. That's why we
Speaker 1: wanted That's that's why I'm here doing this show. That's
Speaker 1: why we talked about, like what's my purpose with this show? Like, Dave,
Speaker 1: you are a model of what I want to become
Speaker 1: of what I hope men can become of. Like, hey,
Speaker 1: let me bring a voice to my insecurities, let me
Speaker 1: bring a voice to my doubts, my fears, my things.
Speaker 1: I'm scared about my failures, you know what I'm going through. Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think men in general do it enough. And
Speaker 1: we wanted to do this show to help men set
Speaker 1: down their weapons, say hey, to help the women to
Speaker 1: dealing with you all because y'all are so confusing. My
Speaker 1: question for both of you, you both have a lot
Speaker 1: of um. Even though you might be going down, you
Speaker 1: know you're gonna dig yourselves back up. What advice do
Speaker 1: you have for men and women where the man is
Speaker 1: sort of stuck, like nothing's disastrous, the job doesn't totally suck,
Speaker 1: but it's not great, the marriage doesn't totally suck, but
Speaker 1: it's not great. Like he likes the kids, but it's
Speaker 1: just a lot of that. That's what I find of
Speaker 1: so many forty year olds, where they're just like, it's
Speaker 1: the most asked questions by far, it's Hey, I it
Speaker 1: tends to be I'm more the women than men. Hey,
Speaker 1: as a woman in this relationship with a man, and
Speaker 1: I am on a journey. I am reaching for a
Speaker 1: better version of myself every day. I can't get him
Speaker 1: to get on board with my growth. I know Dave
Speaker 1: was in this, like, how do I how do I
Speaker 1: convince him to want to grow? How do I ask
Speaker 1: him to grow? How do I tell him to grow?
Speaker 1: And the simplest and best answer is if you want
Speaker 1: to change him, change yourself because you committing to pushing
Speaker 1: yourself to become a better version of yourself every single day, Well,
Speaker 1: one leave a trail of breadcrumbs right like I was
Speaker 1: the like I had an accomplice in getting out of
Speaker 1: my own way, and that was Rachel and the work
Speaker 1: that she did for herself on herself, even though I
Speaker 1: was giving her a hard time for doing it, even
Speaker 1: though I would grunt when she would wake up in
Speaker 1: the morning, even though I rolled my eyes when she
Speaker 1: went to the personal development conference. I finally, when I
Speaker 1: was at a place where I was available to it
Speaker 1: and ready for it, I reached for a rope that
Speaker 1: she'd dropped, dropped into that valley that I created, and
Speaker 1: it was truly like a I would toe dip. I
Speaker 1: went into therapy super skeptical of it, thinking that it
Speaker 1: was for broken people, only to realize it's fantastic and
Speaker 1: be a greater advocate. I went to a personal development conference,
Speaker 1: super super skeptical of it being snake oil, and yet
Speaker 1: there were some weird things in it. But guess what
Speaker 1: at a transformative experience sitting in the audience at a
Speaker 1: personal development conference. So you know, like I still carry
Speaker 1: a lot of skepticism. I am someone who has to
Speaker 1: see the actual results to become a true believer. And
Speaker 1: seeing my wife's actual results were what created belief in
Speaker 1: the tools that end up saving the title of your book.
Speaker 1: Get out of your own way to me, Like that's
Speaker 1: everyone's problem is themselves. Oh yeah, Like further to what
Speaker 1: he said, dude, I just laugh. I've like you're you're
Speaker 1: just my dude. I just resonate so much with what
Speaker 1: you're saying. Also, because um, guys, at least speaking for myself,
Speaker 1: will only try it when we want to try it,
Speaker 1: so you you, my wife can tell me, hey, this
Speaker 1: is great, this is so, this is pretty perfect for you.
Speaker 1: I'm like, great, that's wonderful. Then she's like, why you're
Speaker 1: gonna try it. I'm like no, no, Like she's like why,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't want to try it. It's inception. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like he has to find a way to make
Speaker 1: you believe it's your idea. I mean that's like I
Speaker 1: guess what, that's the human condition. And I think it
Speaker 1: actually goes both ways. I don't think that like there's
Speaker 1: this is like, yes, I think it is maybe more
Speaker 1: male than female is because literally it is. My boyfriend
Speaker 1: was like, get this toothbrush. He sent me the link.
Speaker 1: I order it, Like I know that's super simple, but
Speaker 1: like he just tells me what to do and I
Speaker 1: do it. We all have to just do all this
Speaker 1: voodoo with you guys to get you to try it.
Speaker 1: It just comes when it comes listen like and then
Speaker 1: here's the thing once we try it. Like you said
Speaker 1: you tried therapy. I've tried therapy. It's amazing. I loved it.
Speaker 1: I went to UH, I went to a personal development,
Speaker 1: went to Tony Robbins date with Destiny because my wife
Speaker 1: she would gone. This was her third time going. She's like,
Speaker 1: do you want to come? I'm like, Okay, sure, I'll come.
Speaker 1: And the first day I almost walked out my head
Speaker 1: blew off. It's Tony's giving you this this rant about
Speaker 1: how to show up in the world and create energy.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I drove a bus for a pro sports
Speaker 1: team for fifteen years. Dude, I know how to show up.
Speaker 1: Don't tell me how to show up. Let's go. I'm here.
Speaker 1: I prepare and show up before I even get here.
Speaker 1: And now we're here and you're trying to get me
Speaker 1: to create energy. How dare you disrespect me? Like like
Speaker 1: just stuff like this that I'm just an idiot on right,
Speaker 1: like and so my wife and then when I Finally,
Speaker 1: when it finally clicks, I tell my wife and like, oh,
Speaker 1: I tried this thing. I tried working with Johnny, I
Speaker 1: tried working with Scott and my mind blue is amazing.
Speaker 1: It's the most incredible thing. And the look on her
Speaker 1: face is just like that, I'm not telling you. You
Speaker 1: can't say that either. You go okay, um. But you
Speaker 1: know what's crazy too, though, is like there have been
Speaker 1: things that have come out of some of these experiences
Speaker 1: where you're immersed for two days or three days, and
Speaker 1: it may be two hours of twenty that were the
Speaker 1: thing that fundamentally changed the way that you think you
Speaker 1: might have to wade through fifteen hours of stuff that
Speaker 1: you're like, dude, you can keep this, but I still,
Speaker 1: holy cow, can connect to a couple of these experiences
Speaker 1: that just a lightbulb went on a thing that you
Speaker 1: just and Rachel could have told me a thousand times,
Speaker 1: it didn't matter. It had to be something that I
Speaker 1: discovered myself through my own process because of the way
Speaker 1: that we're wired and are you guys able to like
Speaker 1: because there is so much sort of bettering yourself and
Speaker 1: digging and exploring and thinking and understanding, like do you
Speaker 1: ever just like shut it off at the date night
Speaker 1: and just talk about, like I really like to the
Speaker 1: show on Netflix, you know, or are you guys really
Speaker 1: like kind of always doing it? We're I mean, we're
Speaker 1: we're not consumers of almost anything media wise, which is
Speaker 1: like crazy. I mean, like we at the like for
Speaker 1: the first ten years of our marriage we almost exclusively
Speaker 1: watched maybe not even ten years, but like seven or
Speaker 1: eight years we we watched a ton of TV. We
Speaker 1: don't we don't turn on the television, which so which
Speaker 1: is weird. So like now the things that we talk
Speaker 1: about tend to be more connected to the work that
Speaker 1: we're doing in the books that we're reading. We still
Speaker 1: have those conversations, but it's it's really rare that there's like, oh,
Speaker 1: hey did you watch did you watch this? Which, yeah,
Speaker 1: well you probably watched things together that my life. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, here's the thing. So I like, I went
Speaker 1: on this. I went on this. Uh, I went on
Speaker 1: this like three day goodbye from technology, goodbye from family,
Speaker 1: walk in the wilderness. Man, I really recommend that people
Speaker 1: take time to get clear. Nope, Amy open open your
Speaker 1: mind to this. So I went to Tusun, Arizona out
Speaker 1: in the middle of beautiful. Oh my god, Tucson, Sorry, Tucson,
Speaker 1: You're not You're not great. I had to change. I
Speaker 1: had a bad time and had a bad experience and
Speaker 1: two soons. It doesn't it doesn't great. The tourism board
Speaker 1: is never going to welcome you back at me if
Speaker 1: you if you continue to rag on Tucson, Uh, you go,
Speaker 1: And then I'll tell you. The headline is, I'm in
Speaker 1: this experience of just trying to leave my mind clear
Speaker 1: enough to figure myself out a little bit. It was
Speaker 1: like my own version of therapy where I am now
Speaker 1: both a therapist and the patient and in the work
Speaker 1: of just being by myself. I literally deleted my social
Speaker 1: media from my phone and had someone on my team
Speaker 1: changed the past words because I know myself well enough
Speaker 1: to know two days in I had have gone back
Speaker 1: on right. So I start doing a little bit of
Speaker 1: work on where in the last two or three years
Speaker 1: worth the time there was pain in my life? Where
Speaker 1: did pain exist in my life? I wanted to try
Speaker 1: and see if there was any consistent ingredients in the
Speaker 1: times when I felt pain of some kind, and the
Speaker 1: thing that was a through line every single time there
Speaker 1: was pain, it was a time when I professed an
Speaker 1: interest in or told people that I was a certain person.
Speaker 1: I am this kind of dad, I am this kind
Speaker 1: of leader, I am this kind of husband. But new
Speaker 1: in the silence of my own bedroom while I was
Speaker 1: falling asleep at night, that I had not shown up
Speaker 1: that way, that incongruence, the dissonance that existed between who
Speaker 1: I was telling people I was, or who I know
Speaker 1: myself to want to be, and who I was actually
Speaker 1: showing up as that distance is pain, it's shame, it's
Speaker 1: unfulfilled potential, it's all those things right, it's impostor you
Speaker 1: name it, like all those things right. And so I
Speaker 1: in that in that time my brain works and maybe
Speaker 1: a little bit of a different way. But I had
Speaker 1: to think about the math. Okay, if I say I
Speaker 1: want to do these things, I want to be this person,
Speaker 1: then I have to show up for my life in
Speaker 1: this way. This is a long way to land the
Speaker 1: point that the reason why watch television is that my
Speaker 1: math equation. If I want to have the energy to
Speaker 1: go on a city book tour, if I want to
Speaker 1: stand on these stages that we have for these personal
Speaker 1: development conferences this year and have this energy. If I
Speaker 1: want to write my next book, if I want to
Speaker 1: lead our team, then I have to be asleep by
Speaker 1: nine pm every single Night's right. It's a non negotiable
Speaker 1: because and the thing is, by the way, right, you
Speaker 1: have a different if then right if you want to
Speaker 1: stay up to date on all of the storyline of
Speaker 1: this is us Man, I honor that choice. But your
Speaker 1: then statement is just different and there's nothing like truly
Speaker 1: there's no value judgment on it. But I don't. But
Speaker 1: there are there are people who wonder why they can't
Speaker 1: chase their dreams or feel under fulfilled, or haven't hit
Speaker 1: their fitness goal or whatever, and they're still watching six
Speaker 1: hours of streaming a night. Well, let me let you
Speaker 1: in on your answer. You have an if then equation
Speaker 1: that is satisfying some entertainment value at the expense of
Speaker 1: you get in the kind of sleep that would let
Speaker 1: you start your day at five paid to watch all
Speaker 1: those shows you do. So I want to ask you
Speaker 1: both the question what really landed on me when you
Speaker 1: were talking? And again maybe Danielle can jump into because
Speaker 1: it felt very male to me, the shame you wanting
Speaker 1: to be this certain person and feeling saying you were
Speaker 1: that person, but you aren't that person. Like I could
Speaker 1: understand it for you guys it's gender, but I didn't.
Speaker 1: I don't experience that. We women to me are like
Speaker 1: I'm a train wreck, and we tell our girlfriends and
Speaker 1: we all get together and lift each other up, where
Speaker 1: I would never say like I'm really killing the game,
Speaker 1: but then inside I'm like I suck, whereas men, I
Speaker 1: feel like you have to flex a little bit more,
Speaker 1: and I'm curious. I don't think it's gender related to
Speaker 1: you specific I don't think it's gender related only in
Speaker 1: that my wife gets this question all the time in
Speaker 1: a way that I've never been asked it. What's this
Speaker 1: going to do to your kids? Right? My wife is
Speaker 1: an ambitious person who's pursuing a career. What's this going
Speaker 1: to do your kids? Is a question that she gets
Speaker 1: that I don't, right, And she gets that question because
Speaker 1: it's asked through the lens of the stereotypes or gender
Speaker 1: norms and rolls of what women ought to do, and
Speaker 1: a hypothesis that women couldn't possibly be both. They couldn't
Speaker 1: possibly be both a good mom and a person and
Speaker 1: a badass entrepreneur, and so what I always say is like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're just you're asking the question in the wrong tone
Speaker 1: of voice. Right, what would this do to our children? Right?
Speaker 1: I have three kids who are boys, and those boys
Speaker 1: will never for one second question whether a woman can
Speaker 1: write to back to back number one year times best
Speaker 1: selling books, stand on stages that draw ten thousand people
Speaker 1: lead a boardroom like it'll never enter their mind that
Speaker 1: women can. And I have a three year old daughter
Speaker 1: who will never need to read a book that my
Speaker 1: wife wrote called Girl Stop apologizing, because she's never once
Speaker 1: seen my wife apologize for standing in the identity that
Speaker 1: she was put on this planet for. But can I
Speaker 1: take go on a limb and say, your daughter also
Speaker 1: will have a great boyfriend or marry the right guy,
Speaker 1: because she's got you to model that after, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Speaker 1: But I do think she's got a man that's saying that,
Speaker 1: and I think that that becomes what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: I think she wants I think those are the point
Speaker 1: Brooks's point of I don't know that it's gender specific.
Speaker 1: I think that there are plenty of things that women carry,
Speaker 1: worry or guilt, or shame about with regard to what
Speaker 1: the other moms of p t A you're thinking, or
Speaker 1: whether or not they're living up to the rest of
Speaker 1: the women and they're small group, or if they've hit
Speaker 1: certain things. There's We do this crazy exercise at our
Speaker 1: personal development conference called Rise where it's a it's a
Speaker 1: women's conference and dude, you got to open that up
Speaker 1: to dudes. We are and I'm like, this is about girl.
Speaker 1: Let's let's let this book of mine get out. Let's
Speaker 1: see what we can do. I hear, I am here
Speaker 1: for it, and Brooks, you are. It's the invitation is already.
Speaker 1: But we do this exercise called stand Up for Your Sister,
Speaker 1: where there are a list of twenty trauma events that
Speaker 1: people have been through that we ask the audience to check. Hey,
Speaker 1: no one's going to see it, go ahead and just
Speaker 1: check the box. And it's the first morning of a
Speaker 1: day called Own your Past. And you go through and
Speaker 1: you check check, check, check, check, You fold it up
Speaker 1: and then you pass it and pass it and pass
Speaker 1: it and pass it until it's now lost in the audience.
Speaker 1: And then from stage Rachel reads these things and they are, oh,
Speaker 1: the hardest things in the world. But among those things
Speaker 1: are things like I hate the way I look, or
Speaker 1: I feel judged for the way I do this, or
Speaker 1: and as they're read, even though you walk into this
Speaker 1: auditorium feeling like the struggle that you carry as a
Speaker 1: woman is unique to you, when you see nearly like
Speaker 1: I hate the way I look, it's unbelievable. It's like
Speaker 1: it makes me want to cry. Higher audience stands up
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, this is this is what's broken.
Speaker 1: Let's figure out how to create a set of tool
Speaker 1: us to try and fix this. But there are I
Speaker 1: just you know, there are things. And by the way,
Speaker 1: if we do something for men and check the box.
Speaker 1: We have a business conference where we did the same thing,
Speaker 1: but we did a stand up for yourself, like owning
Speaker 1: that you made decisions that drove your business to bankruptcy,
Speaker 1: that you've had to fire the person that you thought
Speaker 1: was But the reality is their struggle is universal, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, like part of my reaction to girl Wash
Speaker 1: your Face was this idea that she was going to
Speaker 1: reveal the struggle of our life as though it would
Speaker 1: be a surprise to people. And the headline is that
Speaker 1: I was assigning vulnerability as a weakness or a showcase
Speaker 1: of weakness and have come full circle because of the
Speaker 1: way the book was embraced in the letters that have said, hey,
Speaker 1: this was where I got breakthrough, and I feel differently
Speaker 1: about how I can control my my forward, everything that's
Speaker 1: gonna happen going forward. Vulnerability is a superpower, and her
Speaker 1: ability to tell stories that would afford people the chance
Speaker 1: to see themselves in the story is what lets them
Speaker 1: get out of their way. It's why you know, I
Speaker 1: wrote a book in the same kind of vein where
Speaker 1: I'm telling a bunch of stories that most people would
Speaker 1: never ever own. There's power owning your own story, but
Speaker 1: people seeing themselves in the story is where the power
Speaker 1: comes from. Well, I think as for you too, I
Speaker 1: like that you both are willing to be vulnerable because
Speaker 1: that's why we're doing this, is to get these guys
Speaker 1: to be able to do that because it benefits women
Speaker 1: so much to help to help them understand what's really
Speaker 1: going on. Well, we were talking about this before we
Speaker 1: started in. Producer Danielle said, Hey, save that for the show.
Speaker 1: We're talking about just being authentic and real and sharing
Speaker 1: vulnerabilities and how easy that makes life. You know, there's
Speaker 1: like freed a minute. Yeah, once you once you're comfortable
Speaker 1: with owning, Like you said, I made this mistake. I
Speaker 1: felt this way. I had an insecurity about this. I
Speaker 1: f this up big time. Take full ownership when you
Speaker 1: actually accept ownership of things that you tried to hide previously. Man,
Speaker 1: you just sit back in your chair and life is
Speaker 1: just relaxing. Doesn't mean we have it figured out. Doesn't
Speaker 1: mean like you're just comfortable all of a sudden in
Speaker 1: your own skin. You've got nothing to hide. And Dave
Speaker 1: walked in and he said, man, just ask me anything, like,
Speaker 1: ask me anything. So I have a question for both
Speaker 1: of you, Like, that's to me, that's real masculinity. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree, that is real modern day masculinity right there.
Speaker 1: So I asked some women as I was coming here
Speaker 1: to talk talk today what they wanted to know. And
Speaker 1: one of the questions I thought was really interesting and
Speaker 1: I wrote it in Brooks notes. If you're in a relation,
Speaker 1: you're in a relationship and the emotional connection has dissipated,
Speaker 1: can you get it back and how or if it's gone?
Speaker 1: Is it gone? I mean, I think you can definitely
Speaker 1: get it back, but it may take doing the work
Speaker 1: to get to the why, like why did it go?
Speaker 1: Like again, like my my brain is a little more
Speaker 1: like again practical science based objective. I want to try
Speaker 1: and find the answer to why it left. So if
Speaker 1: I found myself in that situation, I'd be sitting in
Speaker 1: a therapist office with someone who could help curate a
Speaker 1: conversation that would allow the things that we're currently not
Speaker 1: saying to come to the surface. I mean, one of
Speaker 1: the gifts of us working together, as much as it
Speaker 1: has been the best two years and hardest two years,
Speaker 1: is that it has forced us to commit to this
Speaker 1: idea of radical candor. There's a book by a person
Speaker 1: named Kim Yeah. So Kim Scott wrote this book. It's
Speaker 1: called Radical Candor. So I'm borrowing it from her, But
Speaker 1: it's this idea that like in respect for someone showing
Speaker 1: up as their best self, if you truly care about someone,
Speaker 1: you will, in real time find a way to deliver
Speaker 1: feedback to them in a way they can hear it,
Speaker 1: in a way that respects them, that's away from other people,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't allow the thing that they've done fester,
Speaker 1: or doesn't allow the thing that is bothering you, But
Speaker 1: may not even be on their radar to come into
Speaker 1: the light so that you can just deal with deal
Speaker 1: with it quickly and move on. You know, it makes
Speaker 1: me laugh about that, the old timey saying don't go
Speaker 1: to bed angry. It's like sort of true. It's like
Speaker 1: talk about it and kind of try to work it
Speaker 1: out so that you can move forward. I disagree with don't.
Speaker 1: I don't like it. It doesn't make me feel it.
Speaker 1: I feel uncomfortable. I like to kind of work it out.
Speaker 1: Here's what Well, here's the thing. If you are practicing
Speaker 1: like this idea of radical candor on the like regular
Speaker 1: it's just like so ingrained in how you just pursue
Speaker 1: you rarely are going to find yourself with something that
Speaker 1: would leave you like truly bubbling over angry. But the
Speaker 1: reason why I disagree with don't go to bed angry
Speaker 1: is if you are really angry about something and you're
Speaker 1: gonna start tackling it at the end of the day
Speaker 1: when you have less energy that maybe you know, you
Speaker 1: push in an emotional state faster. The chances that you
Speaker 1: can hear things without being defensive, the chances that you
Speaker 1: can give people responses that actually feel like they're filled
Speaker 1: with respect and the intent shin of coming out the
Speaker 1: other side in a good way. I'd rather sleep on it,
Speaker 1: let that emotion go do that. I agree with him.
Speaker 1: There's times where if I get into an argument, I
Speaker 1: need just a minute or not even a minute, but
Speaker 1: a couple of hours just to really set in what
Speaker 1: I'm feeling, and then I'm able to have a conversation
Speaker 1: and actually be But let me ask both of you honestly,
Speaker 1: because my wife does that too, She'll sometimes leave the room.
Speaker 1: I need a second. I hate it, and dudes that
Speaker 1: that pisces me off. I'm like, let's just deal with
Speaker 1: it that same thank you. But I get it. I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: here's what I'll say. I need a moment to recalibrate.
Speaker 1: I get it. Some people there there are argument styles,
Speaker 1: so a little bit depends on how you're arguing or
Speaker 1: constructive conflict style is right, I am captain of the
Speaker 1: debate team. You want to give me a letterman sacket,
Speaker 1: I will get I will, I will, I will argue
Speaker 1: to the death to win, to be right, and Rachel
Speaker 1: in conflict shuts down. When you pair capture the debate
Speaker 1: team with shuts down it actually provokes something that has
Speaker 1: me looking like a bully, which is the world like, Honestly,
Speaker 1: it makes me want to throw up. I hate when
Speaker 1: I come off as a bully, and I don't even
Speaker 1: if I come into it not meaning to. If she's
Speaker 1: shutting down and I'm winning the argument when she's not
Speaker 1: even participating, it's the worst. So we've just acknowledged up
Speaker 1: this is the way that we're wired. Yeah, you're going
Speaker 1: to try and have, you know, as constructive conversation, but
Speaker 1: there's been plenty times we've actually opted into sending each
Speaker 1: other emails that right, and and the request and sending
Speaker 1: the email is like read the email, process the email.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that you don't get emotional. We still
Speaker 1: get emotional with the email, but you wait until the emotion,
Speaker 1: the initial emotion is subsided. You wait until that initial
Speaker 1: let's get defensive or reactive feeling goes away, and then
Speaker 1: you come back and have a more objective come. I
Speaker 1: can't do it. It's the difference that I've read up
Speaker 1: on this a little bit. Respond versus react. You know,
Speaker 1: react is like boom triggered, I'm coming back at you,
Speaker 1: whereas let me like what you said, let me take
Speaker 1: it a little bit here, let me process this, and
Speaker 1: then let me be respond. And that's a totally different
Speaker 1: energy than reacting. The one one thing that has been
Speaker 1: super helpful in the responding has been starting the sentence
Speaker 1: with my intention here is just like declaring your intention
Speaker 1: for the outcome of this conversation. My intention here is
Speaker 1: that I want to I want to show up well
Speaker 1: for my intention here is to help you because I
Speaker 1: can see something I don't think you see. My intention
Speaker 1: here is And if you've declared the intention, it's easier
Speaker 1: to stay connected to the intention than it is the
Speaker 1: emotions that without intention leave you. Right. I love that.
Speaker 1: I'm going to use that. The other one, there's another
Speaker 1: one that's, um, my hallucination is instead of saying like
Speaker 1: I think you, it's like, well, my hallucination is that
Speaker 1: you're feeling this way about where that's something that I
Speaker 1: just it means it's I'm not putting you on the
Speaker 1: defense of it's my hallucination, but what I'm making up
Speaker 1: about you. Yeah, Well that's what I was going to
Speaker 1: say to you, guys. Is the reason I like, don't
Speaker 1: go to bed angry is because and I'm after this
Speaker 1: show I'm much more healed. I'm not going to cry
Speaker 1: right now, but the old man would have cried because
Speaker 1: I think the person will leave. So I have like
Speaker 1: an abandonment thing where if we don't work it out,
Speaker 1: they'll they'll leave, and so they'd be interesting to trace
Speaker 1: where that comes from. I think my mom didn't come
Speaker 1: get me at camp is really the only thing I
Speaker 1: can come up with on that. I've talked to her
Speaker 1: about it so many times. I literally wrote a letter
Speaker 1: and come get me. I hate camp, and she didn't come,
Speaker 1: and the letter didn't get there. She got it. She
Speaker 1: called the camp and said, my daughter wants me to
Speaker 1: come get her, and they're like, she's fine. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's really it, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: So I think it's understanding your your person. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: another um like that hallucination thing. There's another one to
Speaker 1: respond after you've shared your thoughts is if you can.
Speaker 1: If it's you try this and it feels amazing to
Speaker 1: hear it, and so once you've heard it for yourself,
Speaker 1: you'll want to share it. It's thank you for taking
Speaker 1: care of yourself. So when when my wife says something
Speaker 1: or shares a feeling. If you're able to learn this
Speaker 1: from Jaya, Yeah, about talking about like sexuality and things
Speaker 1: that you craved and desired in the bedroom in our
Speaker 1: intimate relationship. Um, it's a way to empower people to
Speaker 1: bring a voice to things that that they fear a
Speaker 1: little bit, Yeah, or maybe they'll be judged for it,
Speaker 1: or something that I want everything for my wife as
Speaker 1: I want everything for myself. Right, So she tells me something,
Speaker 1: then I acknowledge her with thank you for taking care
Speaker 1: of yourself. She just kind of like he hears me permissions.
Speaker 1: It's permission, permission, but even even in the world where
Speaker 1: you don't want to have it feel like permission, but
Speaker 1: you get it. It just disarms you a little bit.
Speaker 1: And then when I get to say what I want
Speaker 1: to say and she says thank you for taking care
Speaker 1: of yourself, it's like, oh, it's just you feel so
Speaker 1: well received when you say that. I love having guests
Speaker 1: that come in that just bring like, dude, you're just
Speaker 1: you're just throw and smoke today. Come on, I love it. Um.
Speaker 1: I Also you also touched on something about incongruencies between
Speaker 1: your life. You're what who you thought you were in
Speaker 1: your actions, and it's I have I have. I call
Speaker 1: it my golden question, the single most important question that
Speaker 1: defines my life. I asked myself that every day, it's
Speaker 1: written in my gym, are my daily actions congruent with
Speaker 1: my life goals? That's it? That is It's why I'm
Speaker 1: here on this podcast. You know, the day that my
Speaker 1: daily actions, the day that the goals of this podcast
Speaker 1: don't align with my life goals, I'm not here, you know,
Speaker 1: I call I call them my operating principle. Well, because
Speaker 1: I love it all. I do. I love it all.
Speaker 1: I love me some Oprah's and Tony Robbins, I love
Speaker 1: you guys. But I'm also sitting here going like I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to like get through the day. I don't
Speaker 1: have enough time to always process that. Like I'm just
Speaker 1: I haven't got to the bathroom in three hours, Like
Speaker 1: literally I have to pee so bad right now because
Speaker 1: I've been so busy and going from one thing to
Speaker 1: so I don't have time to be like, am I
Speaker 1: in congruum. I'm like, I'm just trying to shove you know,
Speaker 1: you go first, I'll come, I'll come. I want to
Speaker 1: hear you first. What's interesting as a person who has
Speaker 1: historically been crazy skeptical of fu fu talk like this.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until I saw the fruit of crazy habits,
Speaker 1: of hyper routine, of actually doing the work to define
Speaker 1: what are my personal values? And in defining my personal values,
Speaker 1: what are the operating principles that I have to live
Speaker 1: by every single day so that those values come manifest
Speaker 1: Like is it like subconscious? Are you actually saying? Am
Speaker 1: I like being conscious in a way that like if
Speaker 1: there was a secret shopper watching my life, like the
Speaker 1: way that a retail store sends a secret shopper into
Speaker 1: watch how the you know, clerks are restocking the shelves.
Speaker 1: If there was a secret shopper watching my life and
Speaker 1: I was hoping that if I couldn't make the interview
Speaker 1: of my life, they were sent in to rep resent
Speaker 1: the very very best traits about me. Would they actually
Speaker 1: say the things I want to say about myself? And
Speaker 1: what do you think they say? Well, I hope that
Speaker 1: they'd say that I'm generous, so that I'm interested in growth,
Speaker 1: that I value my family, that I show up for impact,
Speaker 1: like the things that are hopefully a reflection of what
Speaker 1: I believe to be my core values, and you think
Speaker 1: that you're gonna let's say the secret shopper came and
Speaker 1: followed you today, like, would you pass? I think he would.
Speaker 1: I hope every single day. I hope too. I mean,
Speaker 1: are there times when I wouldn't, of course, But again
Speaker 1: I'm about to see. But here's the thing, right if
Speaker 1: you if you say that, okay, so then what's the objective?
Speaker 1: And my objective is better tomorrow? Right? I want to
Speaker 1: just I am on a perpetual pursuit of a thing
Speaker 1: that doesn't have a finish line. I just want to
Speaker 1: be a little bit of a better father tomorrow, a
Speaker 1: little bit better boss tomorrow, better friend tomorrow, better conscious
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like it's president's conscious, but
Speaker 1: so much of what we do, of what we do
Speaker 1: is an unconscious have a loop. So if half, almost
Speaker 1: half of what we do isn't even in our consciousness,
Speaker 1: the only thing you can do to change half of
Speaker 1: what you do is to become more conscious. I mean,
Speaker 1: am I the only one that's like, I'm just hoping
Speaker 1: the other shoe doesn't drop, and I'm just kind of like,
Speaker 1: can I keep all the balls in the air? And
Speaker 1: I hope my boyfriend likes me. I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: you're not. I'll just say you're not. You're not the
Speaker 1: only one this is, You're definitely not when you ask
Speaker 1: that question. I love Dave's answer the door dressed. Dave's
Speaker 1: answer is real, and he's a lot more elaborate and
Speaker 1: articulate than I am. What I wrote down right here
Speaker 1: when you asked that is my response to you is
Speaker 1: what are your priorities? Like you just said, I can't.
Speaker 1: I haven't got to the bathroom in three hours, so
Speaker 1: so look at that. Let's look at that. Then what's
Speaker 1: the priority the email in your life, in the grand
Speaker 1: scheme of your life? What are you prioritizing right now?
Speaker 1: This email, this work, this little project, this little I
Speaker 1: need to be on this phone call? Like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I had to be on a phone call, and then
Speaker 1: I had to take a check down to accounting, and
Speaker 1: then I needed and I wanted to be in here,
Speaker 1: and I already missed the first five minutes. I have
Speaker 1: no idea what the hell you guys talked about in
Speaker 1: the first five minutes. I just hoped I wasn't repeating it.
Speaker 1: So go into the bathroom was not a priority. I
Speaker 1: can do it in twenty more minutes. That's a slippery slope.
Speaker 1: Then that's a very slippery slope because that's going to
Speaker 1: start to infect other areas of your life and my bladder.
Speaker 1: I mean no, I just I just mean neglecting things
Speaker 1: that you want, like neglect like chocolate. That's the two
Speaker 1: things I want right now, chocolate and bathroom. There's try this,
Speaker 1: so there's a saying for people to say I don't
Speaker 1: have time, I don't have time for this, I don't
Speaker 1: have time next time. Instead of saying I don't have time,
Speaker 1: try saying it's not a priority and just wear that
Speaker 1: for a second. You don't have time for the gym
Speaker 1: next time today it's not a priority. Or I don't
Speaker 1: have time to pick my kids up. Oh, it's not
Speaker 1: a priority to pick my kids up. It's a totally
Speaker 1: different suit that you wear. And at that, when I
Speaker 1: heard that, I was like, oh that changed be so yeah,
Speaker 1: damn right. I asked, well, it was more of a
Speaker 1: priority for me to get in here, then go to
Speaker 1: the bathroom, and the chocolate is probably third. I think
Speaker 1: I'll go to the bathroom after. Well, you guys, you
Speaker 1: guys are very like I don't know people listening are like, well, sure,
Speaker 1: I'd love to be like those two, but hell like
Speaker 1: parts are not. Zick. Here's the thing, though, I need
Speaker 1: people need to hear this. We are unbelievably ordinary people
Speaker 1: who have decided to implement habits in our life to
Speaker 1: unlock extraordinary results. We are ordinary people. Also, there's areas
Speaker 1: of my life that are absolutely chaotic. I got here
Speaker 1: early so I could take my car downstairs to get
Speaker 1: it cleaned, because my car is absolutely discussing. He's got
Speaker 1: bird poop all over it, it's got dog. You're rolling
Speaker 1: over that piece of paper. I mean, I hear the
Speaker 1: paper here, the paper here, the paper, but like so
Speaker 1: just because somebody's got it in line here? I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a million ways in my life that are chaotic
Speaker 1: right now. I would love to ask you too, how like,
Speaker 1: percentage wise, how in line are you both? Like really,
Speaker 1: how much is you're together congruency with with who we
Speaker 1: want to be? I would say, I'm I would say, honestly, Uh,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty damn congruent. But I have so much growth
Speaker 1: that I desire for still, I am just starting to
Speaker 1: really I think unlock uh the new version of me
Speaker 1: that like things that that I shut off for years,
Speaker 1: for twenty years, and as an athlete, things that I
Speaker 1: shut off and I didn't give time or resources or
Speaker 1: dedication to that, I'm starting to bring into my life
Speaker 1: that are going to open me up and change me
Speaker 1: in ways to become a new man, a better man,
Speaker 1: a different man than I was before. I've said that
Speaker 1: my adjective of is to be boundless. I don't want
Speaker 1: to bound myself or constrict myself under an identity of
Speaker 1: an athlete male thirty six Canadian. Those are all you're
Speaker 1: boxed in now, and I've done that to myself and
Speaker 1: also people have done that to me, and so my
Speaker 1: word for is boundless. Now, I'm I don't know where
Speaker 1: I am. I know I'm damn true. I know that
Speaker 1: I'll speak the truth whether it's good or bad. I
Speaker 1: know that my system doesn't lie to me. I trust
Speaker 1: my instinct. I've shared it on this show, my biggest
Speaker 1: success in my life as I've always followed my instinct.
Speaker 1: But am I where I want to be? No? I
Speaker 1: am just starting, like I am one step into climbing
Speaker 1: the Eiffel Tower of where I want to be as
Speaker 1: a person. But I'm super damn excited about it because
Speaker 1: it's the first time in my life where I've really
Speaker 1: like opened up, and that's why I wanted. I was
Speaker 1: so excited to have Dave come in when I'm researching
Speaker 1: him and his story, and we actually met at the
Speaker 1: Jurnal and I was like, apparently, time to go to
Speaker 1: the bath. I just can't wait to hear your stud
Speaker 1: to talk about your life for me, but also then
Speaker 1: to serve our community. My word for the year is captain,
Speaker 1: which is a strange word, but I I got a
Speaker 1: quote tattooed on my arm when I decided to make
Speaker 1: this leap. A ship is safe in harbor, but that's
Speaker 1: out which ships were built for. And I thought the
Speaker 1: decision to leave the harbor was the hard part, and
Speaker 1: so I made this choice and it was hard, but
Speaker 1: it began a string of very hard decisions that I
Speaker 1: had to make every single day to push back against
Speaker 1: the insecurity and the identity shift and the imposter syndrome
Speaker 1: and how to scale a team from five to sixty five.
Speaker 1: In the last year, like, we have gone through some
Speaker 1: fun stuff that have every single time pushed me into
Speaker 1: spaces that made me feel uncomfortable. And so the the
Speaker 1: first year of us doing this work together was about
Speaker 1: me leaving the harbor and just sitting in the waves,
Speaker 1: And it was something that at first I didn't even
Speaker 1: receive the benefit of because I had really bad coping mechanisms.
Speaker 1: I'm eleven months into not having a drink. Thanks well,
Speaker 1: I'm eleven months into not having a drink because I
Speaker 1: committed to not drinking for a year. I wanted to
Speaker 1: get to the point where the book came out, but
Speaker 1: I think I'll probably, to be honest, I don't know yet,
Speaker 1: and I've decided I'm not going to make the decisions
Speaker 1: so I get through the year. But I was definitely
Speaker 1: not in this congruence place a year ago because all
Speaker 1: of the things that were coming at me with anxiety
Speaker 1: and fear and identity and everything else, I was not
Speaker 1: handling well, and so I had to find a different
Speaker 1: coping mechanism. I started running instead of drinking. Just to
Speaker 1: give you a sense of how chaotic life has been,
Speaker 1: I have run one thousand miles and eleven months I
Speaker 1: have I have run a lot of miles now. Captain
Speaker 1: though for me is I am closer now to congruents
Speaker 1: than I've been in a long time. Because these waves.
Speaker 1: To me, I am built for this. I am the
Speaker 1: boat on the water. Let's go. And just because it's rocky,
Speaker 1: and just because failure is happening in our business, that
Speaker 1: is more successful than it's ever been. I f I
Speaker 1: don't know, three or four hours, I have now just
Speaker 1: come to realize that that is the way that this
Speaker 1: small business operates. That's just the way that it works,
Speaker 1: and I'm growing from it. But I'm way more congruent
Speaker 1: and consistent with the things I say I want today
Speaker 1: than I was a year ago, and wildly more consistent,
Speaker 1: like by a magnitude of five or six times more
Speaker 1: consistent than five years ago. Do you think about congruin's
Speaker 1: Daniel Um not really, to be honest, I sometimes think
Speaker 1: I feel balanced, Like, yeah, chemicals seem to be okay today.
Speaker 1: That's the EMO word balance, because we're, like you said,
Speaker 1: you were juggling all these different types of types of things.
Speaker 1: I definitely resonates congruent. I know it's matching who you
Speaker 1: want to be with who you actually are. It's how
Speaker 1: do I show up in I whatever. That never crosses
Speaker 1: my mind. I agree, You're you are very congruent. You
Speaker 1: you love people and you genuinely show that you love
Speaker 1: your job, you show up for that. Do you both
Speaker 1: think congruents is also equivalent or on the scale with happy, Like,
Speaker 1: if you're congruent, are you happier? Damn right way happier.
Speaker 1: But I also like my congruents is in part because
Speaker 1: the posture I say I want to be in is
Speaker 1: one where I'm growing, and that's where fulfillment lives for me.
Speaker 1: Right Like, if I if I'm not growing, it's like
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I've heard the word congruent
Speaker 1: more than four times before today. Well, this is like
Speaker 1: a bingo game and you can fill the entire car.
Speaker 1: This is fantastic. Um. It's so, here's the thing. If
Speaker 1: you are not, if somebody is not congruent in their life,
Speaker 1: at some point, you're going to face that. You're gonna
Speaker 1: when you're by yourself in a dark room, whatever, there's
Speaker 1: gonna be a dis sect, there's gonna be a mirror,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a reckoning where you understand what you've
Speaker 1: said is different than how you've acted. And your true friends,
Speaker 1: you're the people around you, they'll know it, they will
Speaker 1: see it, and they'll know it as much as your
Speaker 1: people listening, how do we help them understand it? Well,
Speaker 1: my question is how do you feel about yourself when
Speaker 1: you're by yourself? How you feel about yourself when you're
Speaker 1: by yourself is everything. So here's yeah. The reality is
Speaker 1: if you're incongruents, you'll know because you'll feel pain, shame, anger, insecurity, fear.
Speaker 1: If you are congruent, you'll feel peace, You feel free.
Speaker 1: And there's um one way that I always try and
Speaker 1: figure things out as I ask myself. I directly ask
Speaker 1: myself the question, and my system, my heart, question my
Speaker 1: heart just sec I'll get to it. But whatever question
Speaker 1: do I want to ask myself, my heart my system
Speaker 1: will not lie to me. It will undeniably not lie.
Speaker 1: It will reveal the truth. So if I ask myself,
Speaker 1: am I proud of the man? I am? And I close.
Speaker 1: I always close my eyes because I don't want any
Speaker 1: other visual I don't want any other sensory stimulation. I'll
Speaker 1: have a blindfold on sometimes or I'll close my eyes.
Speaker 1: I'll have a lot of times I do my thinking
Speaker 1: with headphones on because I don't want to hear of things. Um.
Speaker 1: And if you for me, this is how I do it.
Speaker 1: I close my eyes. I asked myself this question, and
Speaker 1: my system will not lie to me. The heart does
Speaker 1: not have an ability to lie to you too, as
Speaker 1: a human. I'm damn proud of myself. I'm also damn
Speaker 1: excited and curious and scared for what I still need
Speaker 1: to learn. I like I like the process, but I
Speaker 1: actually do it in a way that compartmentalizes individual pieces
Speaker 1: of my life, because I can be proud of myself
Speaker 1: on the whole and not have pride for the way
Speaker 1: I'm showing up against a certain dimension of my life. Right,
Speaker 1: So am I proud? I write down ten statements in
Speaker 1: a journal every day as though they've already happened, as
Speaker 1: a trigger for my unconscious to search for ways to
Speaker 1: make that happen. And and one of them is I
Speaker 1: intentionally pursue my wife. I actively intentionally pursue my wife.
Speaker 1: I write down every day as though it already has happened,
Speaker 1: and then I have to during the day look for
Speaker 1: ways to be in pursuit, Like we haven't yet even
Speaker 1: had the wedding ceremony, right, Like I want to pursue
Speaker 1: my wife as though there aren't guarantees that she'll stick
Speaker 1: with this, I want to pursue my wife. Right. I
Speaker 1: am close to my children and so every day right,
Speaker 1: But in doing that, I can I can be proud
Speaker 1: of who I am overall, but I can realize, oh
Speaker 1: my goodness, I'm on my phone while my kids are
Speaker 1: sitting here on their device and we're in the same room,
Speaker 1: but we're not actually connecting. I am not proud right
Speaker 1: now of myself in this because I could do more
Speaker 1: to be intentional in connecting with one of my kids.
Speaker 1: My answer to all the questions is ish, that's great,
Speaker 1: that's great, that's great. Awareness. You can question you guys
Speaker 1: say that's okay. But I'm telling you, whatever question you
Speaker 1: want to ask could be a specific question, could be
Speaker 1: a general question. Am I proud of myself? Could be
Speaker 1: a specific question, am I doing my best at work?
Speaker 1: If you truly ask yourself's I mean one of the
Speaker 1: things that we've had to institute, like our life, your life,
Speaker 1: all life, it's so hectic and crazy that if you
Speaker 1: hope and you use the word hope, so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have to come at the word hope. But like if
Speaker 1: you hope that an exceptional life is going to show up.
Speaker 1: If you hope that an exceptional relationship is going to
Speaker 1: show up. If you hope that feeling a certain way
Speaker 1: at work is going to show up, you are setting
Speaker 1: yourself up for being at the mercy of life doing
Speaker 1: whatever life will do. And life is not that. Life
Speaker 1: is not engineered to create exceptional No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1: Life will come around the corner and kick you in
Speaker 1: the shins. So you have to frontload the life that
Speaker 1: you say you want to have. We have a saying.
Speaker 1: It's whether it's our saying or someone else is saying
Speaker 1: that hope is not a strategy. You need to have
Speaker 1: a strategy for how you hope your exceptional life will
Speaker 1: show up. So, before we go, what do you think
Speaker 1: of trust the universe? I think there's a place for that,
Speaker 1: But also too, I also want to give credence to
Speaker 1: what Dave is saying, is that and you are this
Speaker 1: Amy sometimes I've I've told you many times on the show.
Speaker 1: I don't think you give yourself enough credit. I think
Speaker 1: you're very I think you're very self critical and don't
Speaker 1: think you give yourself enough credit credit because you are
Speaker 1: what he's talking about, a creator of circumstance. You you
Speaker 1: literally created this podcast. You've literally created every other podcast
Speaker 1: we are all in this room right now because you
Speaker 1: created it. You are a creator of circumstance in the
Speaker 1: world more than you know. And I think I sometimes
Speaker 1: think you don't give yourself enough credit. Thank you. No,
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Like if we need to affirm me,
Speaker 1: I'm happy to make things up, I do it. No,
Speaker 1: it's about you today and also everyone listening. So what
Speaker 1: I hope people listening are like taking because there's some
Speaker 1: good meat. Like sometimes I think people like Dave that
Speaker 1: are in your career our way too broad strokes and this,
Speaker 1: I think that we give people some real practical things
Speaker 1: to do and how to do it. I really appreciate
Speaker 1: he's given it today. He's very taking. Like I love
Speaker 1: with those ten things you write down, I intentionally pursued
Speaker 1: my wife. I love that thing. All men should totally
Speaker 1: do Easton because it's like that will help your marriage
Speaker 1: if you are acting like that every day the way
Speaker 1: around too. Though, I think, let's talk about this for
Speaker 1: a second. This is why I'm here to your significant
Speaker 1: other like you just met them. I have a question
Speaker 1: for you, Dave, so in your book, which I want
Speaker 1: to get to in a minute, but get out of
Speaker 1: your own way. Um, you talk about what ways people
Speaker 1: prevent their own success? So what is for our listeners,
Speaker 1: what is like some of the two or three most
Speaker 1: common ways that you feel people prevent their own success,
Speaker 1: whether that's in business, whether that's in fulfillment, enjoy happiness,
Speaker 1: in relationship, go at it how you want. I want
Speaker 1: to leave it open to you. But what are some
Speaker 1: of the ways that people prevent their own success? Well,
Speaker 1: the first is that we are the believers in a
Speaker 1: series of stories that have been told to us about
Speaker 1: how life works, how life shows up or avails itself
Speaker 1: to us through our family of origin, through societal norms,
Speaker 1: through some voice of authority at some point in time
Speaker 1: that we ascribed value too. And if we're not asking
Speaker 1: all the time, if that story was told by a
Speaker 1: credible source, then we are just living through the lens
Speaker 1: potentially of someone else's fear and not our truth. Right.
Speaker 1: And so I, in the simplest form running right, I
Speaker 1: had somebody tell me for years, thirty six years of
Speaker 1: my life that tall people can't run. Right. Tall people
Speaker 1: can't run because of their hips, because of their knees,
Speaker 1: because of their back. People can't run. So I just
Speaker 1: believe that story to be true and never tested the hypothesis.
Speaker 1: Then one day I went on a run and my
Speaker 1: knees hips back didn't hurt, and I went on another run,
Speaker 1: and so I had to go back to the source.
Speaker 1: The source is that a credible source? It turns out
Speaker 1: it is a credible source actually kind of like his
Speaker 1: hallucinations thing. It is like his hallucinations thing, right, But
Speaker 1: the source was still credible. But then I had to
Speaker 1: ask do they have credibility on this subject? And the
Speaker 1: reality was as much as that person who I crave
Speaker 1: left from is someone who is a credible source, they
Speaker 1: had no credibility on the topic of running. Be free
Speaker 1: from this story. It no longer bears any weight for you.
Speaker 1: What's right for what's right for them isn't right for you.
Speaker 1: So you have to choose carefully what stories you believe.
Speaker 1: And if you believe a story, you've kept it as
Speaker 1: a capital t truth in your life. Do the work
Speaker 1: of understanding who was the storyteller? Do they have credibility?
Speaker 1: Do they have credibility on the topic right? And it
Speaker 1: could be that they were a credible source when they
Speaker 1: told the story, when you were five, I've but have
Speaker 1: lost credibility over time. Be free. It could be that
Speaker 1: they had credibility on the topic then, but don't have
Speaker 1: application to that topic in your life. Be free, Like,
Speaker 1: there's so many ways to be free. It's so good.
Speaker 1: I had a therapist when I was twenty say don't
Speaker 1: do stories, and like, I know exactly what she's saying,
Speaker 1: because it's exactly what you're saying. Don't do stories. Don't
Speaker 1: make up your own stories in your head, and don't
Speaker 1: buy into somebody else's made up stories. Just don't do stories.
Speaker 1: The other another one, I mean, like the amount of
Speaker 1: time that we waste worrying about what other people are
Speaker 1: thinking about the things that we're doing is singularly the
Speaker 1: like one of the biggest paralyzed. It's just paralyzing. And
Speaker 1: I was like, having stayed at Disney for longer than
Speaker 1: I should have. The reason I stayed longer than I
Speaker 1: should have was the worry of what they would think
Speaker 1: of me leaving something that made so much sense to
Speaker 1: them but would not have like totally helped me in
Speaker 1: my journey. And so I, on the other side of leaving,
Speaker 1: was afforded a gift that pierced ego and my identity.
Speaker 1: They weren't thinking about me, And it's not an indictment
Speaker 1: on them as human beings. It's just a reflection of
Speaker 1: their humanity. No one's thinking about anybody else, Like for
Speaker 1: the most people still in relationships because they're worried of
Speaker 1: what somebody else is going to think of them leaving
Speaker 1: the relationship, right, No one. I mean there are a
Speaker 1: hand I would say, like maybe ten percent of people
Speaker 1: are truly truly thinking about you, but they are usually
Speaker 1: thinking about you through the lens of their fear or
Speaker 1: their insecurity, and not necessarily what is in your absolute
Speaker 1: best interest if they're judging right, if they're what I'm
Speaker 1: saying is if they're judging right right, And so it's like,
Speaker 1: be free, Holy Cabby free. I I will say, like,
Speaker 1: in the like Catharsis of writing this book, man, it
Speaker 1: was hard. It was really hard to be as honest
Speaker 1: and vulnerable in this book as I ended up being.
Speaker 1: But on the other side of having the words on
Speaker 1: the page and having now had some early reception, I
Speaker 1: have never been so proud of owning fully the struggle
Speaker 1: that I have gone through and the way that I
Speaker 1: feel progress for having persevered through it. If you are
Speaker 1: someone who is struggling, I want to acknowledge your humanity.
Speaker 1: Good news, brother, sister, you and I have something in common.
Speaker 1: You struggle, I struggle. We all struggle, and if you're
Speaker 1: going through something, you are not alone. But also the
Speaker 1: only way that you will get help. Truly, the only
Speaker 1: way I was able to get help was by actually
Speaker 1: acknowledging that the struggle existed. Because in darkness, nothing can
Speaker 1: come there, nothing will be there to help you. And
Speaker 1: so like be okay, finding someone to represent whatever it
Speaker 1: is that you're going through, it will be the rope
Speaker 1: that gets thrown in your ditch if you're you know,
Speaker 1: find yourself in one. I'm telling you it wasn't until
Speaker 1: I could admit the things that I was struggling with
Speaker 1: that I was able to actually reach you see the rope,
Speaker 1: because you said it was hanging there for a long
Speaker 1: term there forever, Dude, you're awesome. Also, I want to
Speaker 1: add to that what you're talking about about people thinking
Speaker 1: other people judge them when you look at when you
Speaker 1: really look at that act of that in individual, it's
Speaker 1: an incredibly selfish act for me to think that you're
Speaker 1: wasting your time. And Danielle and Amy all you guys
Speaker 1: are looking at me and you're thinking about something about me.
Speaker 1: How selfish of me to actually think that your lives
Speaker 1: are consumed about what I'm doing. And when you actually
Speaker 1: get clear to you're like, oh, like nobody's given a
Speaker 1: damn about me, nobody cares about me. Like you turn
Speaker 1: that selfishness off. It's amazing. And also what you touched on.
Speaker 1: Prior to that, I was reading about stories about maintaining
Speaker 1: and holding onto stories. I was literally I was reading
Speaker 1: the book The Untethered Soul today. Have you read that book?
Speaker 1: Credible book? And I'm on I think chapter six and
Speaker 1: he was talking about his best friends. Now, this guy
Speaker 1: is like my older brother. I've never had an older brother.
Speaker 1: This guy's like my older brother. I love it. Um,
Speaker 1: And you, by no means look old at all. I
Speaker 1: probably look older than you. Um. But Sam Scara, you
Speaker 1: ever heard the term sam Scara? It's about congruent. Okay,
Speaker 1: I had no sound scar until today. From Untethered Soul.
Speaker 1: It's about how we are heart traps, things that we
Speaker 1: don't process. So everything that comes into our lives comes
Speaker 1: into our lives and it's supposed to move in us,
Speaker 1: through us and then be as Dave said, free, be
Speaker 1: free of it. But there's certain things that trigger us.
Speaker 1: Tucson triggered you earlier. That's stuck in. Yeah, that's stuck.
Speaker 1: I'll never go to Tucson again. But that's that's now
Speaker 1: energy that's closing off a valve of like your energy
Speaker 1: flow in your heart about Tucson. Okay, but it's still there,
Speaker 1: Like why did you respond to it? Because it wasn't
Speaker 1: able to pass in and through you. That experience still
Speaker 1: has a grip on you in some way. There's weight there,
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you. Like I I was so skeptical.
Speaker 1: I thought it was hooie the idea of journaling for
Speaker 1: a long time. Okay, yeah, I'm still there to try
Speaker 1: it once, And I was like, I want to just
Speaker 1: piggyback on what you just said, though, because as a
Speaker 1: person who hated it until I went and had this
Speaker 1: experience in Tucson where I had no technolog g and
Speaker 1: all I had was a blank piece of paper. You
Speaker 1: spend the first twenty minutes writing about things that are
Speaker 1: sitting in like they're on your consciousness, that you actually
Speaker 1: know what you're you're writing about, you're thinking about all
Speaker 1: the things that you think about, and then at minute
Speaker 1: one forty one you just have to keep writing. All
Speaker 1: of a sudden, all the things that you're holding Tucson,
Speaker 1: your Tucson comes up and lands on a page and
Speaker 1: it coming out of Phoenix. Oh jeez, I mean whatever
Speaker 1: it imprinted so strongly that you got the city wrong,
Speaker 1: even the state time in Tucson. But the one is
Speaker 1: really but continue, Dave. The bottom line is if you
Speaker 1: can bring this experience out of your consciousness, the weight
Speaker 1: that you afford something when you are not able to
Speaker 1: actually ask is this real? Does this matter? Is there
Speaker 1: a possibility that I have conjured something? This like phantom
Speaker 1: stories stories? This it's a lie. But now that it's
Speaker 1: sitting on a piece of paper, I mean, that's part
Speaker 1: of what happens in therapy, but it's also part of
Speaker 1: what can happen in journaling. Now of a sudden, you're
Speaker 1: bringing something from your unconscious subconscious into your consciousness, and
Speaker 1: when you see it, you're like, this is so ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Why would I have even wasted any time thinking about this?
Speaker 1: Bring Phoenix, not Tucson, out of your consciousness, and figure
Speaker 1: out why the heck you're still carrying it. May I
Speaker 1: apologize to the good people of Tucson. They have cactus there.
Speaker 1: It was it was Phoenix, Scottsdale. Okay, we'll be taking
Speaker 1: the show to Arizona. They don't want you. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be honest after this. They have let us know they're
Speaker 1: not interested. We have some healing to do my yeah,
Speaker 1: we have some healing to do with with Tucson, Arizona.
Speaker 1: I think it was Scottsdale. M Dave. I want to
Speaker 1: ask you a question because listening to you and for
Speaker 1: our listeners that have listened to you, and looking at
Speaker 1: you now, if somebody looks you up on social or
Speaker 1: looks up a holical on social, I mean you look uber, happy, fulfilled,
Speaker 1: amazing wife, kids, family, life, career. I mean everything is
Speaker 1: going on, and you've shared so much of what what
Speaker 1: got you there? Negative things, how you're even digging yourself. Um.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you this question. What mistake or
Speaker 1: misstep in your life helped you the most, helped you
Speaker 1: the most? Oh man, what mistake helped me the most?
Speaker 1: Because I have a saying everything is an opportunity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean at the very beginning of my relationship with Rachel.
Speaker 1: My decision to tell her that we should not stay
Speaker 1: together when I was moved by the company Disney from
Speaker 1: l A to Minneapolis was a great misstep that worked
Speaker 1: out because it was only maybe because of having created
Speaker 1: did that distance, that I was able to appreciate the
Speaker 1: thing that I actually had. I mean, it was still
Speaker 1: a jackass in some of that window, as evidenced in
Speaker 1: chapter five of Grow Wash Your Face, but still it
Speaker 1: was it was it was a it was a good mistake, uh.
Speaker 1: I mean, a story that I'd tell in the book
Speaker 1: is one of me feeling this imposter syndrome and having
Speaker 1: been the beneficiary of having received more promotions than most
Speaker 1: people receive in a short window of time. And so
Speaker 1: I found myself sitting in a room where I was
Speaker 1: certain that everyone was judging whether I was worthy of
Speaker 1: having been given this third promotion in three years in
Speaker 1: a way that manifested where every time the room would
Speaker 1: fall silent, I would try to fill that room with
Speaker 1: something smart so that I could justify my worthiness of
Speaker 1: having the seat. And it didn't even a lot of
Speaker 1: times have anything to do with what was happening in
Speaker 1: the conversation. I was just like, oh, I have a
Speaker 1: smart factor, woid. Let me jam it in here so
Speaker 1: that you can all see how smart I am. And
Speaker 1: it was after one of these meetings where the boss's
Speaker 1: boss asked, Hey, can I see you in my office?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, They're gonna make a bronze of
Speaker 1: this moment. I'm getting like memorialized for having contributed beyond
Speaker 1: the call of duty in a meeting like, let's not
Speaker 1: go for the high five, Let's make it a high ten.
Speaker 1: Announced myself like this is gonna be amazing. And I
Speaker 1: walk in door closes and he says, shut the f up.
Speaker 1: I mean, just like destroys me, like soul piercing. And
Speaker 1: he said, look, if we didn't think that you were
Speaker 1: the right person for this job, we wouldn't put you
Speaker 1: in the job. And here you are undermining your credibility
Speaker 1: by trying to convince people who are not actually worried
Speaker 1: about whether or not you are good enough to have
Speaker 1: this job that you are qualified. Knock it off just
Speaker 1: at value when value is requested, and otherwise sit back
Speaker 1: and listen. And it was, you know, maybe three years
Speaker 1: into my seventeen years at Disney, and it fundamentally changed
Speaker 1: the way that I sat at tables and felt the
Speaker 1: need to overcompensate and spaces where I've been given more
Speaker 1: opportunity than my resume deserved. What a gift and kudos
Speaker 1: to you for being receptive to such a blessing. Wow, dude,
Speaker 1: you're superhero. You are Dude, You're a superhero. Okay, where
Speaker 1: can I want to get this book? It comes out
Speaker 1: when March tenth, tenth? Okay, where can what the name
Speaker 1: of the book is, get out of your own way?
Speaker 1: Where can people find it? Literally anywhere? I mean they
Speaker 1: can go to Amazon, they can go to get out
Speaker 1: of your own Way, the book dot com, Um, they
Speaker 1: can go to Target, they can go literally anywhere books
Speaker 1: are sold. Awesome. Uh, and where can people find more
Speaker 1: of you? Hang out on social I'm Mr Dave Hollis
Speaker 1: on Instagram, Dave Hollis on Facebook. If you go to
Speaker 1: the Hollis Code dot com. We throw rat events, have
Speaker 1: coaching that that exists. There's uh journals you can but
Speaker 1: there's a whole host of things you can do. Our
Speaker 1: our company exists to put tools in people's hands to
Speaker 1: help them have a better life. And we're gonna come.
Speaker 1: You know, we're committed to trying to have as much
Speaker 1: impact as possible, so and making a event for dudes,
Speaker 1: and making an event for dudes where Brooks will headline
Speaker 1: with me, Holy count, We're gonna change some lives. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1: last word, anything you have for a community or something
Speaker 1: that you're extremely proud of, anything you want to share
Speaker 1: your last words with our community. I'm going to go
Speaker 1: back to the tattoo because it has been my mantra,
Speaker 1: this idea that a ship is safe in harbor, but
Speaker 1: that's not what ships were built for. I want to
Speaker 1: encourage anyone who in any way isn't today feeling totally fulfilled,
Speaker 1: to ask if they've left the harbor of certainty, because
Speaker 1: I in now realizing why I was stuck and how
Speaker 1: my ditch digging had a genesis. It was connected to
Speaker 1: the way the rope was still on the dock. You
Speaker 1: have been given a certain amount of gifts that this
Speaker 1: world needs. You have a certain amount of lie that
Speaker 1: this dark space that we all inhabit need, and it
Speaker 1: can only truly be unleashed if you are willing to
Speaker 1: leave the thing you know for the thing you need.
Speaker 1: The choppy waters where growth really will actually unlock fulfillment
Speaker 1: for you. About this guy, Come on, I appreciate your brother,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Can we have Dave back now?
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to Tuson and try and men fancy,
Speaker 1: I mean this show is honestly of course we need
Speaker 1: to now bring Dave back with the other guys. I
Speaker 1: wanted to do it with you guys first, so that,
Speaker 1: like you know, Daniel probably already booked me a ticket
Speaker 1: to Tucson to go. Um. What about your podcast? Where
Speaker 1: can people find? Because your your mission, your voice, just
Speaker 1: as everyst what's it called? So we have a very
Speaker 1: bizarre thing. My wife and I do a morning show
Speaker 1: every day on Facebook and Instagram called the Start Today
Speaker 1: Morning Show. It also does a replay on iTunes and
Speaker 1: everywhere podcasts exists. We have a relationship podcast called Rise Together,
Speaker 1: and then my wife has a business podcast called Rise.
Speaker 1: These guys are crushing. Let's go. I need to come
Speaker 1: hang out with you a day, for a day or two,
Speaker 1: or a week or a month. At first, I thought
Speaker 1: I said, I was going to say Arizona. I would
Speaker 1: never I would never go to Arizona. You guys execute
Speaker 1: so well like you guys at something in my life
Speaker 1: that I know. I'm failing miserably. I don't know like
Speaker 1: you are. You have a standing invite. Come over see
Speaker 1: the place we bought a Baptist church that we turned
Speaker 1: into a headquarters. It's got a Jay Z quote on
Speaker 1: the wall. There's a studio that looks nothing like this
Speaker 1: when we record our shows. This guy isn't there, So
Speaker 1: I mean I miss I miss him not working for us.
Speaker 1: But otherwise you are. You are welcome. I'll give you
Speaker 1: the full playbook. Brother. I love it, buddy. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Thank you, Dave. I appreciate you more than
Speaker 1: you know. Thank you you forgot your ending. I was
Speaker 1: doing it right. I was worried. You Just going to
Speaker 1: thank everybody for listening today and leave them with this
Speaker 1: till next week. Take care of one another, love one another,
Speaker 1: and we'll see you back here for another episode of
Speaker 1: How Men Think