WEBVTT - Full Episode - Algorithms Are Destroying Our Brains… & Democracy + Can Independent Candidates Break The Two-Party Stranglehold On American Politics? 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:07.360 Hello, They're happy Wednesday, and welcome to another episode of 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:12.040 the Chuck Podcast. Today's is somewhat a thematic day most Wednesdays, 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:13.880 I'm trying to be in the habit of doing a 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:15.560 little bit of updating of what I'm seeing on the 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:19.320 campaign trail, and frankly, my campaign notebook has been overflowing 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.840 with things and it matches up really well with who 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:28.600 my guests plural are today. I have a joint interview 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:31.720 today with two candidates for the US Senate. One is 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.080 running as an independent in South Dakota and another is 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.639 running as an independent in Idaho. It's Brian Bangs and 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:41.800 Todd Achilles. They both run for office previously as Democrats 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:47.120 and basically have decided the Democratic brand makes it impossible 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.239 for them to have a conversation with voters. You'll hear 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:54.760 better letting them describe their attempts at doing this. Both 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:58.800 of them, I think, do feel they've always been independent 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:03.600 and only aside to run for office because of the 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:08.440 so called doopoly, and in this case this cycle we've 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.400 seen and they're working pretty closely with Dan Osborne, who 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:18.319 was a pretty successful independent candidate in Nebraska last cycle. 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.440 He ended up getting over forty percent. Now he benefited 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.119 from the fact that the Democratic Party in Nebraska essentially 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.759 took a knee right, didn't really compete. And that's obviously 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.680 what these two independent candidates in Idaho where Jim Reisch 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.080 is the nominee, that's who Todd A. Chilles is running against, 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:38.800 and Brian Bangs is running against Mike Bround's a Republican 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:43.600 senator there. Now I think they both it's it's I 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.360 think it really goes to underscore sort of the brand 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:50.000 problem the Democratic Party has in Read America that even 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:52.440 though there is you know, and both of them will 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:55.800 argue that there is there is a there is you know, 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.600 there is a mainstream middle in all of these places, 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:05.559 it's just that the Democratic brand, particularly in Red America, 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:10.399 where there's only been essentially one side competing one side branding, 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:16.000 it's really put the Democrats in a hole. Even though 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.480 there's an electorate that they're not a one hundred percent MEGA. 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:23.320 There might not even be fifty percent MEGA. So there's 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:27.560 an opening, but there's not the Democrat. Putting a D 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.280 next to your name in some of these places makes 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.679 it impossible to have a conversation with some voters and 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.919 it is, you know, in some ways, this is where 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:38.720 we you know, it's it's a result of the of 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:44.040 the the polarized politics that have that are arguably paralyzing 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:51.280 us as a nation right now. Look, and I'm going 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:55.239 to be honest. This has been I always say when 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.200 people use that phrase, I use it as a crutch. 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.200 I'm gonna be honest as if I'm not being honest before. 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:03.080 I'm trying to cure myself of using that crutch. But 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.760 what I'm trying to say is is that I'm letting 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:07.720 you in on sort of some personal feelings that I 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:09.640 normally don't like to share, and that is I just 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:13.240 feel rotten about the state of the country. I'm not 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:19.040 sleeping very well about it. And because I don't see 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:24.239 a path out of this right now, I'm long term optimistic. 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:26.280 And I'm still going to be a long term optimistic. 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:28.960 We've gone through a lot of bad things in this 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.360 country and gotten out better each time. Each time we 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:36.320 have formed a more perfect union. Whether it was the 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:40.480 scourge of slavery, whether it has been then giving civil 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:44.400 rights and Jim Crow, whether it has been the internment 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.760 of the Japanese, whether it was prohibition The point is 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:52.440 is that we've gone down. We've had a lot of 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.120 the red scare, which I'm bringing that up for a 0:03:55.160 --> 0:04:00.600 reason because I think we might be seeing a fervor, 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:05.880 particularly on the right, that wants to try to essentially 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:13.480 stain an entire political party with an ideological belief that 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:18.080 I don't think the country shares, but one side of 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:23.360 the aisle shares. I mean, the initial what folks around 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.680 the president have been promising when it comes to retribution, 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:30.599 going after the left, sort of being blind to the 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:34.680 violent outbursts that have taken place that people have, you know, 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:38.400 violence and murders that have been done in the name 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.160 of a far right ideology. The fact of the matter 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:45.920 is we have got a poisonous information ecosystem that can 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.640 radicalize somebody on the left or somebody on the right 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:56.839 to do bad things. Our system is rigged towards it. 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.760 I spend my sub stack this week talking about this, 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:02.159 and I know I've brought it up here before. In 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.240 some ways, it's you know, some of you may be 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:06.880 listening and going, oh, there's Chuck on his soapbox about 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.120 big tech. But the fact of the matter is, we 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:13.080 know we have two problems right, we all know this 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:18.760 is a problem, which is social media has completely screwed 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.520 up our information ecosystem, and the tech companies, for some 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.960 reason are getting no blame and not being held accountable 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.800 for this their algorithms, and they're look, it's the efficiency 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.799 of technologies. And I say this was sort of without 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:37.440 sort of animus in this point. Right, technology, every time 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:39.640 you know, we advance, you know, it creates an efficiency. 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.520 And when it came to sharing information, we created an 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:48.360 efficiency that it turns out is actually bad for public 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:52.000 discourse and it's bad for democracies. And what is that efficiency. 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:56.520 It's the efficiency of getting information, of boiling it down 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.479 to the one thing that matters. It's the efficiency of 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.320 being able to eliminate people that you don't want to 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:07.279 hear from. It's the efficiency of only being able to 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:11.760 see like minded people. And so that may make sense 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.880 if you're a quilter and you just want information about quilting, 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.040 or if you're a baseball card dealer and you just 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:23.920 want information about trading baseball cards. But it's when it's 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:27.040 on politics and suddenly you're only getting one side and 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.280 these algorithms, you know, I don't want to sit here 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:34.200 I will. I've been trying to sort of right. I 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:36.200 want to turn down the temperature too. I want big 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.839 tech to participate in this. But I do believe the 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.800 second an algorithm is created to curate how I see 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.560 information that has made these companies publishers. And once you're 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.359 a publisher, you should be held accountable for how the 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:56.080 information you're curating is being used and manipulated. But ultimately 0:06:56.120 --> 0:07:00.359 it's going to take some leadership from Washington to do this. 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.919 And you know, I look at what's happening in the 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.560 state legislatures at the moment. Over the last two years, 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:11.920 particularly post COVID, state legislatures have been passing have been 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.040 very aggressive on two things. And it hasn't matter whether 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:16.480 it's a red state or a blue state. They've all 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.680 been passing essentially the same laws. Which is a tougher 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:24.600 age verification to try to limit the exposure kids are 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:28.160 getting to pornography and it is and guess what, the 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.960 fact that the pornographers are complaining about this shows you 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.920 that the just forcing age verification, which you have to 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:37.920 do if you want to buy booze in you're underage, 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.600 or cigarettes or anything other vice you want to participate 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.760 in and you know, we've never the Internet's always been 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:48.800 very loosey goosey on identification and forcing a tougher standing there, 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.480 and we're suddenly seeing, oh, so you can put in 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:57.320 some some guard rails here that can do a better 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:02.840 job of protecting young people from this extreme pornography. And 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.640 the other thing that has been passing in state legislatures 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:07.360 all over the country, whether it's in a red state 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.360 or a blue state, is getting rid of cell phones 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:14.760 and classrooms. Right, private schools had been doing it earlier, Right, 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.720 the public schools are now following suit. Look, there are 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.400 and I think i've we've discussed this before. I mean, 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:26.560 I am, I am empathetic to divorce parents who need 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.120 to have want need to make sure they have access 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.640 to their kid during the school day. But there are 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.240 ways to do this, right, you put you know, you 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:37.040 can look at your phone in between classes. You can 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.880 have it in your backpack, in your locker, you can 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:42.080 have it in a in a pad which you don't 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.280 have it while you're learning. You take one hundred percent 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.679 attention to your teacher, one hundred percent attention to what 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:52.040 you're to what you're doing, and maybe as our friend 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:54.080 Spencer Cox and Uteh likes to say, you know, maybe 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.320 touch grass every now and then, which, as a kid, 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:01.839 touching grass is pretty important. But when you think about it, 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.560 we're so worried about what social media and the and 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.000 the tech companies are doing to our kids that we're 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:12.040 trying to do something about it. Guess what, if it's 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.600 toxic for our kids, it means it's toxic for us too, 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:21.559 isn't it. And so look, I'm a free speech absolutist. 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.440 I am. I do think bad speech is fixed with 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:29.840 good speech. But amplification is not free speech. Right, dialing 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.960 up and dialing down what you see and what you hear, 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:37.719 that's not free speech. That's curative speech. Right, that's a campaign. 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:42.640 That's that's that's that's something that that and it should 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.920 be up to the user. If I want to curate 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.800 my feed a certain way, it should be in my hands. 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:52.400 I don't need the tech companies suggesting what I should 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.680 be looking at. A for you tab like our friends 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.720 a X do, which is just nothing, but you know, 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:01.320 it thinks it knows my interests. But it will always 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.960 be the most incendiary thing about a topic I care about, 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.840 even when it comes to Miami Hurricane football, Green Bay 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:11.560 Packer football, or Washington Nationals baseball, let alone the various 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:15.440 political things, you know, attacks on the media, sometimes personal 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:17.720 attacks on me. They make sure it shows up in 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:21.760 the four U tab. What does that accomplish. I didn't 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:23.480 ask for this. In fact, I've gone out of my 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.800 way to mute the idiots, and yet it's still you know, 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:31.160 these things still show up. So you know, we are 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:35.080 in that sense, we're powerless on this. And then you 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.800 have the two parties who have been very reticent to write. 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.240 You know, they talk a big game. Individual members talk 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.520 a big game about regulating big tech, but they don't 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:45.240 end up doing it. And part of the problem is 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:49.960 I just was talking to a former US senator and 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:51.760 you know, you'll you'll figure it out in a couple 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:53.480 of weeks when you when you see the interview that 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:55.839 pops up in a and when I do it. But 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.520 I was talking to a US senator who said to me, 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:05.520 he said in passing that you know, you know, I 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.520 think we have to do something about tech. And he 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:12.079 said within two within an hour, he had he suddenly 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:17.000 had Sheryl Sandberg and Jack Dorsey calling him to like, 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.120 are you sure, what are you talking about? What are 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:22.040 you concerned about? With what tech is doing? Tech, the 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:26.720 big tech companies have really just saturated Washington with money 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:31.920 left and right. They've hired up all sorts of strategists 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.960 and former staffers left and right. It is frankly standard 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.400 practice for a powerful industry. Okay, this is no different 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.640 than big oil in the eighties and things like that. 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.080 And so what you've seen is kid glove treatment. Right. 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:51.439 We haven't had anything on maybe repealing Section two thirty. 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.480 We haven't had anything remotely close to trying to have 0:11:54.559 --> 0:12:00.120 a digital bill of rights that protects our data, right 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.760 rather than allows so many other entities to own and 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.480 buy and sell our data. And you know they've done 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.160 a good job with that. And so what you have 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:14.160 now is twenty years of elected officials who don't know 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:19.160 how to attain power without the tech tools. Right. So 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:24.600 that makes him hesitant. I mean, look, I'm not going 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:28.480 to be labor this point. I want the president to 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.400 rise above his partisan instincts and meet this moment the 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:34.400 way it needs to be met, the way George Bush 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:36.880 met nine to eleven, the way Barack Obama did Charleston, 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:41.480 the way Bill Clinton handled Oklahoma City. We haven't gotten 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:46.080 that from him yet. If anything, he views it, he's done. 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.440 What about ism? You know, when he was questioned on 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:56.040 Fox about extremists on the right, he essentially rationalized their extremism, saying, well, 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.240 they care about they're upset about crime, I think, is 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:04.520 what he said. And when you see these leading partisan 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:09.120 politicians saying that they're going to investigate the left, that's 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:12.080 red scare stuff, right. That's what happened in the fifties, 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.760 and it was an ugly It was an ugly period 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:22.200 in Washington where guilt by association was the coin of 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:26.400 the realm. And that seems to be what's happening here 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.880 is that you have a lot of folks here that 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.640 see an opportunity right for political exploitation. But here's the 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.560 other thing. If you attained power in this polarized era, 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.320 you don't want it to change, do you. You don't 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.240 want to go back to an era that might be 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.240 a bit more unifying, a bit more bipartisan. Bypartisanship is 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.480 not good for Donald Trump, right, by partisanship hasn't been 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.400 you know, partisanship has been you know, the Democrats arguably 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:59.800 have done better because of reactionary partisanship with Trump. You know, 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.480 the brand has been problematic now arguably going back to 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.800 the Hillary Clinton nomination, but their success has been due 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:12.360 to polarization. Trump's ability to get a second term was 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.200 due to polarization. And so you know, when you're sort 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:16.920 of stuck, you know, the only way you know how 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.200 to win is this way. Then the incentives are all. 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.440 You know, our incentive structures are broken. And you've heard 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:24.240 me use that phrase before. You've heard a lot of 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.680 people say this, Okay, so how do we create better 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.680 incentive structures? Well, the only way I think, which then 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.600 fits the theme where I have today, which is the 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:38.120 rise of the independence. The fastest growing political party in 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:42.160 America is no party right. People are registering are you 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.920 know if they were registered? A lot of former Republicans 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.240 registered is Independent because they don't like Trump. You now 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.000 have a lot of former Democrats registering is Independent because 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:52.920 they don't like what's happened to the Democratic brand under 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.000 Biden Harris, and you're starting to see that. We're seeing 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.800 gen z is sort of be on the on the 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.640 age front. You're seeing a lot more of registered independence. 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:05.640 And you know, I always love I always love to 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:07.640 go around. I mean, and we're up to I think 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:12.200 half the states where non party or no party or 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:15.720 registered independence outnumber at least one of the two major parties. 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.880 And I believe it's in ten states where independence actually 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:24.440 outnumber both major parties. So there's a huge constituency out 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:29.600 there who don't like what's happened to the two parties. Now, look, 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.680 I am I am done sitting here making the do 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.200 I think in a perfect world, I think we should 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.560 be a four party system. I think it would actually 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.080 provide some relief bout would force coalition politics. But I'm 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.840 not going to go down that rabbit hole today because 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:47.800 I do I want to stick to topic here. What 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.240 the two parties need is a time out, right, they 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:53.560 both need to lose at the same time, or they 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:57.200 both need to be punished, essentially in order to force 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.600 an inward Look, you know, I railed on Monday about 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.320 the fact that there's there is zero incentive to call 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.320 out your own party. If anything, if you call out 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.240 your own party for bad behavior, you're seen as a trader, 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:11.520 not as somebody looking out for the best interests of 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.560 the country or the party. And if you're going to 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:22.480 sort of get them out of their partisan rabbit holes. 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.480 They're going to have to be set back at the 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:29.160 same time or be under threat. And we've had an 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:32.760 example of two independent presidential candidacies that didn't win, Teddy 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:37.280 Roosevelt and Ross Purot, but effectively forced both parties to 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.080 reform themselves and forced you forced an issue. You know, 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:46.280 I look at a guy like Spencer Cox, and he's 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:50.840 decidedly on MAGA. Okay, in a in the pre Trump world, 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.000 Spencer Cox would be already identified as a rising star 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:57.760 in the Republican Party. He has no chance right in 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:03.040 the Maga Republican Party. But his voice and how in 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:07.000 his north star about what the tech companies have done 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.960 to us and how this has happened. I kind of 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:12.120 think because he's a little bit younger than I am. 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.000 He's in his forties, so he's a millennial governor, and 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.240 I think he's in some ways more digital native and 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:21.640 unders and is better. He's just more conversant at explaining 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:26.679 the harm. Right. I did this interview with this older 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.280 senator and they've identified the harm, but they're not very 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:34.919 conversant in explaining the harm. You know, Donald Trump doesn't 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.679 really you know, he's not as conversant and couldn't explain 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:40.840 it if he chose to. Right, that's just just in 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:47.280 some ways he's just demographically out of touch. But it 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:49.080 feels like we're in a moment that if we're going 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.160 to force the two parties to sort of wait a minute, 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:54.159 we've got to put the country first every now and 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:58.880 then they have to be punished for their ways. And 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.280 if the public won to just like they're exhausted from this, 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.760 it may be that that you need a third party scare. 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:14.719 And whether it's a third party scare, can you know 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:18.520 every every political party needs needs a check on itself, right, 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.720 The whole point of checks and balances are good whether 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.280 you're organizing a government or you're organizing policy, you're organizing 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.800 a political party. You know, you a political party doesn't 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:32.199 needs to have a check on its potential ideological excesses. 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.800 There's nobody checking the maga wing of the party anymore. 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.200 There was a lot of checks in the first term. 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.960 There's not many checks this term, and we've seen fewer checks. 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:44.919 You know, you had you had your Joe manchiins and 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.600 cinemas that were kind of the centrist check on the 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.520 Democrats before they're both gone, and there really isn't a 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.240 lot of space. I guess John Fetterman has suddenly sort 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.239 of kind of adopted that role, but I don't think 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.680 he has I don't think he has really the credibility 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:04.960 yet to be that check with the middle of the 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:07.720 road voter right. I think some of the right love 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.560 what he's doing, but but I think only for owning 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:15.879 the Lib's purposes, right, this whole trolley, this whole trolley mindset. 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:25.960 So that's what's frustrating is that we do have a problem. 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:29.399 We're going to have a part of it. Looks like 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.560 partisans on the right want to just try to harass 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.239 the left in under the name of trying to you know, 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:42.879 root out political violence, but without it all sort of 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:49.479 accepting the premise that hey, it's it's sadly a bipartisan affair, 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.960 and that basically it's the Internet that radicalizes folks and 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:56.200 it doesn't matter whether they come from stage left or 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.159 stage right. The one thing that we haven't that we 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:03.440 haven't common here is the Internet has has been, has 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.960 been what's radicalized them. And if we're not going to 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.520 confront this problem this way right now, it is going 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:14.320 to get worse. Okay, if you ratchet up a radical 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:16.400 view of what you think the other side is doing, 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:18.760 I promise you the other side is going to respond 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:25.439 in a radical way, right and radicalism, reactionary radicalism. And 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:30.120 here we are right, and this is this escalatory polarization 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.520 that we've been experiencing. I mean, you know, it's we've 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:35.919 seen it in the US Senate with the absurdity of 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.600 how how we've destroyed the judiciary branch. And make no mistake, 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:43.200 we've destroyed the judiciary branch with this, with this partisan 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:46.919 gamesmanship in the Senate, and there's always this attempt to well, 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:49.919 but they started it. It doesn't matter which side I 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.080 of the eylight talking about, but they started it. The 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:55.280 right will scream foror the left will scream, will scream 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:58.560 about Ruth Bader Ginsberg and Merrick Carlan. The fact is 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:05.960 they they both chose punishing the other side without thinking 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.600 about what it would do the judiciary itself. Right, we 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.440 turned the judiciary into the freaking House of Representatives where 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:15.760 a whole bunch of fifty percent plus one judges are 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.760 out there. So you either have super liberal or super maga. 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:24.240 There is no, you have sixty sixty five votes, you 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:30.640 would have this sort of moderate temperaments, you know, which 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:33.480 is really what our politics could use. I'm not suggesting 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.439 we all ideologically have to move to the center. You 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:38.800 know where I stand. I'm an incrementalist, but what we 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.720 need is moderate temperament to lead us. When you're trying 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:43.639 to lead three hundred and fifty million people, a moderate 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:48.879 temperament goes a long way. And our most successful presidents 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:53.720 have been of moderate temperaments, regardless of how you know. 0:21:54.240 --> 0:22:00.760 Reagan and Obama pretty mainstream liberal dem are crap mainstream 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:07.800 conservative Democrat almost identical temperaments, and in many ways they 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.399 had I'm sure there's some of you out there that 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:12.639 that have been voting long enough where you voted for 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:16.240 both of them almost as much because of their temperament. 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.920 You know, it's it's a huge factor with my vote. 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:23.600 I want to know how this person's going to handle 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:26.240 a crisis. I want to know how this person's going 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:29.360 to handle you know. I certainly have issues, and there 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.640 are you know, there are there are veto there are candidates, 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:35.439 there are issues that I might veto at candidate on 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:38.199 because the issue matters to me. That much. But for 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:41.480 the most part, I'm a character and temperament guy, and 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:44.080 we could use a moderate temperament. But we have a 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:47.520 we have an information ecosystem and a political and a 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:54.520 political system that punishes moderation, not in ideology, which it 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:58.119 does do that too, but even punishes it in style. 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:06.240 I think that's what we would prefer as a body politic, 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:11.480 But the way our information ecosystem works, it seems it 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:23.160 seems to almost force us into the exact opposite persona. 0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:26.840 There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:29.959 there's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:32.840 law firm. For the last thirty five years, they've recovered 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:36.080 twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients. 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:40.240 It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing, 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:43.320 just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible. 0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:46.440 Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact, 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:49.600 in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars, 0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:53.199 which was a staggering forty times the amount that the 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:56.440 insurance company originally offered. That original offer six hundred and 0:23:56.520 --> 0:24:00.000 fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred fifty thousand dollars. 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:02.280 So with more than a thousand lawyers across the country, 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:05.040 they know how to deliver for everyday people. If you're injured, 0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:07.720 you need a lawyer, you need somebody to get your back. 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:10.879 Check out for the People dot com, Slash podcast or 0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:16.480 Dow Pound Law Pound five two nine law on your 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:19.120 cell phone. And remember all law firms are not the same. 0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:21.320 So check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free 0:24:21.600 --> 0:24:29.119 unless they win. All right, I, like I said, I 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:34.520 wanted to mostly focus on a little bit of update 0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:38.520 on the campaign trail. I do think as you as 0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:40.480 those of you that listen to me because you're campaign 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:43.320 junkies and trying to figure out where's the party going, 0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:45.879 I really think you're going to where both parties going. 0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:47.600 I think you're going to enjoy this conversation with these 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:53.719 two independent candidates because you know they are trying to 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:56.240 to say, hey, look i'm a little bit on the 0:24:56.280 --> 0:24:57.720 left over here, and I'm a little bit on the 0:24:57.760 --> 0:24:59.399 right over here, and this is how I want to 0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:01.360 work in the se And they even have an interesting 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:04.520 idea the answer to the question. And I'll let the 0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:07.680 interview speak for itself. But the answer to the question 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:11.600 of Okay, if you win, you have to pick a 0:25:11.640 --> 0:25:13.480 side who you're going to work with, Well, they have 0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:18.399 a plan for this, and let's just say it's a 0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:20.679 plan that I've heard others talk about in the past, 0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:26.359 and I've seen senators chicken out at the time. The 0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:31.520 pressure party leaders put on these folks who would make 0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:35.480 the who could become committee chairs versus becoming ranking members, 0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:38.359 which means being in the majority versus being the minority, 0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:43.840 is quite you know, the pressure can be quite quite aggressive. 0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:51.360 But I think that's that's most interesting, interesting challenge assuming 0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:52.919 they get traction. And I have to tell you, in 0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:57.240 this political environment right now, I think anything in the 0:25:57.280 --> 0:26:03.760 thirties is a huge story for these independent candidates. But 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:06.439 I'm betting you know, I you know, I'd set the 0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:08.679 line at thirty seven, thirty eight percentage points and I'd 0:26:08.720 --> 0:26:10.520 take the over. I think we're going to see a 0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:14.479 lot more. I think there's a there's certainly, and this 0:26:14.560 --> 0:26:17.000 is something I'm watching for in these off off year 0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:19.720 elections in twenty twenty five. I think it's going to 0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:23.199 be a tough time for incumbents and we're seeing some 0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:26.560 incumbent mayors struggle, and I think that across the board, 0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:29.960 if there is a viable alternative to an incumbent, especially 0:26:30.800 --> 0:26:33.000 they don't come from one of the two major parties. 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:37.400 But they seem normal. Boy, I tell you, I think 0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:41.800 there's a constituency out there that's quite large. We'll see, 0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:43.520 we'll see if they have the funding to get their 0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:46.560 message out. That's always a huge challenge with third party candidates. 0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:49.760 But in some of these smaller states, at least, the 0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:53.560 ballot access issue isn't isn't a huge challenge. We're not 0:26:53.600 --> 0:26:56.520 talking these large states like California, New York, Florida, where 0:26:56.600 --> 0:26:58.560 it can be very difficult to get on the ballot 0:26:58.600 --> 0:27:01.920 of the Florida you can usually just pay. But it's 0:27:01.920 --> 0:27:08.000 definitely definitely something that I have made a priority to 0:27:08.160 --> 0:27:12.520 keep track of this year, which is these these well 0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:15.960 organized independent candidacies, particularly in states where one of the 0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:19.400 major parties is willing to quote unquote take a knee. 0:27:19.520 --> 0:27:21.639 By the way, stay tuned after the interview, I've got 0:27:21.680 --> 0:27:25.240 my new top five list for the week. This week, 0:27:25.280 --> 0:27:30.680 it is the top five states most likely to elect 0:27:30.760 --> 0:27:34.760 an independent to the US Senate, which I think is 0:27:34.800 --> 0:27:37.720 a much harder thing to pull off than it is 0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:43.040 to elect an independent as governor. And I will explain 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:45.119 that on the other side. But before we get to 0:27:45.160 --> 0:27:48.359 the other side, which I'll also take some questions, just 0:27:48.400 --> 0:27:51.359 a few interesting updates on the campaign trail that you 0:27:51.440 --> 0:27:54.359 might have missed. We have the redistricting horse, obviously, and 0:27:54.880 --> 0:27:57.359 one of the questions is going to be, you know, 0:27:57.400 --> 0:28:02.040 the big the big campaign fight on the ballot is 0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:04.159 going to be in California where essentially the maps are 0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:07.040 going to be on the ballot for this Novembers election 0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:10.760 up or down. You have a huge amount of money. 0:28:10.760 --> 0:28:14.080 There are now three different entities essentially trying to stop 0:28:14.119 --> 0:28:18.600 this remap. You have Charlie Munger Junior, who is the 0:28:18.600 --> 0:28:22.160 son of Charlie Munger, longtime business partner to Warren Buffett 0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:25.560 back in the day. He's really been a political lately. 0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:27.760 He used to be a big Republican donor. I don't 0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:31.480 think he's a big trumpy is not as trumpy as 0:28:31.520 --> 0:28:35.960 some other Republicans, but he was a big supporter of 0:28:36.000 --> 0:28:38.480 the original redistricting commissions that are out there. So he 0:28:38.520 --> 0:28:40.840 wants to defend what he did. Arnold Swarzenneker. He said 0:28:40.880 --> 0:28:45.320 he's going to campaign, but interestingly, it sounds like he's 0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:47.600 agreed to sort of not be the face of any 0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:50.320 of the no movements. He's chosen not to work directly 0:28:50.320 --> 0:28:52.840 with Munger's group, he doesn't plan to work with Kevin 0:28:52.880 --> 0:28:56.920 McCarthy's group. He does seem to be focused on keeping 0:28:56.960 --> 0:28:59.640 his independence. I think he doesn't want to look like 0:29:01.520 --> 0:29:03.160 he seems to be trying to find a way he 0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:07.160 wants to be. He wants to be pro reform, but 0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:12.680 not necessarily looking like he's help I don't think he 0:29:12.680 --> 0:29:16.560 wants to use the Republicans to help him get that 0:29:16.600 --> 0:29:19.200 message across. I think he's trying to have it. But 0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:21.520 that's a real challenge if you're Gavin Newsom and the 0:29:21.520 --> 0:29:23.680 Democrats who are trying to get this referendum pass, and 0:29:23.720 --> 0:29:26.520 that you have sort of you have three different entities 0:29:27.280 --> 0:29:30.680 that are all trying to spend money to get those 0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:32.840 in different ways. Right, You're going to have now Arnold 0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:35.840 who is going to not associate himself with the Republican 0:29:35.880 --> 0:29:38.560 groups but sort of be talking straight to the independence 0:29:38.600 --> 0:29:41.040 you got. Charlie Munger's put a ton of money in there. 0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:45.880 Kevin McCarthy's got a hundred million to spend. We'll see. 0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:51.520 It's my understanding and focus groups that the surprising thing 0:29:51.720 --> 0:29:54.640 to my sources who've been talking to about this are 0:29:55.040 --> 0:29:58.680 is how engaged voters are in California about it. They're 0:29:58.720 --> 0:30:02.600 pretty well educated, they get it, and those that believe 0:30:02.640 --> 0:30:05.440 they can get this map passed think that this is 0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:10.320 not a bank shot. That it is important to these voters. 0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:12.400 If you want to get them to approve this map, 0:30:13.160 --> 0:30:17.280 they really have to believe it's temporary, and they have 0:30:17.760 --> 0:30:20.760 if they don't believe that this will revert back to 0:30:20.880 --> 0:30:24.640 the public process, the sort of the commission process for 0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:30.440 twenty thirty and beyond that. That's the key when a 0:30:30.520 --> 0:30:35.400 voter is is here's the message for it, and they 0:30:35.440 --> 0:30:38.400 believe that aspect of it, that this is just temporary 0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:44.160 justify what Texas is doing. They think it's enough to 0:30:44.160 --> 0:30:46.600 get a majority. So I do think this is still 0:30:46.600 --> 0:30:50.640 a campaign and it's infancy, but it is obviously in 0:30:50.680 --> 0:30:53.880 some ways. May even have Virginia governor, you have New 0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:57.280 Jersey governor, you have New York City mayor. It's you 0:30:57.280 --> 0:31:00.600 could argue this California referendum is suddenly the most important 0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:06.720 election this in twenty twenty five, even as the Virginia 0:31:06.840 --> 0:31:09.800 and New Jersey are traditionally a little more high profile. 0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:14.440 And of course Mayor of New York City. Speaking of 0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:19.880 the redistricting, watch Missouri very closely because Missouri did its map, 0:31:20.000 --> 0:31:26.000 but they have an interesting addendum to their constitution. So 0:31:26.520 --> 0:31:29.560 under state law, if a petition reaches roughly one hundred 0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:33.880 thousand signatures in six of eight congressional districts, the law 0:31:33.960 --> 0:31:38.360 that the Missouri legislature passed with this new redistricting proposal 0:31:38.400 --> 0:31:43.360 that would eliminate all but one Democratic leaning congressional district, 0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:47.920 basically getting rid of the Kansas City Democratic seat. The 0:31:48.000 --> 0:31:50.120 law would actually go before voters for an up or 0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:55.240 down vote, and it could get repealed, and the lines 0:31:55.320 --> 0:31:59.360 don't go into effect until that ballot referendum happened. So 0:32:00.000 --> 0:32:03.920 if they get it, the Missouri would potentially have to 0:32:03.920 --> 0:32:06.200 put a special election if they wanted to count for 0:32:06.280 --> 0:32:11.480 November twenty twenty six, and they successfully have a challenge 0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:14.360 to the state law that qualifies for the ballot, we 0:32:14.440 --> 0:32:18.480 may have a special spring election in like March or April. 0:32:18.920 --> 0:32:21.920 Perhaps the August primary Missouri is in August primary state. 0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:25.600 Perhaps it goes on there, although that seems super late, right, 0:32:25.640 --> 0:32:28.560 because that's when congressional candidates got to know which district 0:32:28.600 --> 0:32:31.600 am I running in? So keep an eye out on 0:32:31.760 --> 0:32:35.400 wather and it's going to tell me how organized are 0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:40.880 the Democrats nationally? Right? The California Democrats turned out to 0:32:40.920 --> 0:32:45.240 be very organized. I mean, whatever you think of the idea, 0:32:46.200 --> 0:32:48.560 what Gavin Newsom has pulled off is something that I 0:32:48.760 --> 0:32:52.800 was circumspect. I thought that with so many different stakeholders, 0:32:53.000 --> 0:32:56.280 so many different people wanting caring about their district lines 0:32:56.320 --> 0:32:58.840 and all of this stuff, the fact that Gavin Newsom 0:32:59.040 --> 0:33:01.360 got that whole party to row in the same place, 0:33:03.000 --> 0:33:05.800 it's just, you know, you got to admire the political 0:33:05.880 --> 0:33:09.360 leadership there. That is not an easy thing he has 0:33:09.400 --> 0:33:14.680 pulled off. Is that him or is there a pretty 0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:18.840 strong national Democratic Party organization behind him. We're going to 0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:21.920 find out a Missouri, right, whether there is a whether 0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:26.360 the Democrats are as organized nationally is they clearly were 0:33:26.360 --> 0:33:30.040 in California to push back on this, because there is 0:33:30.120 --> 0:33:33.800 a you know, essentially a plan B in Missouri to 0:33:34.560 --> 0:33:37.120 go to the voters and get an up or down there. 0:33:38.200 --> 0:33:40.080 I just think it'll be really telling, But I have 0:33:40.120 --> 0:33:42.520 to tell you there was an item in my old 0:33:43.840 --> 0:33:47.920 my old publication I worked at before NBC, the hotline, 0:33:48.080 --> 0:33:51.200 and they and it was just a simple construction, which 0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:53.880 is what's always the beauty of the hotline covering the coverage, right, 0:33:54.920 --> 0:33:57.720 and they note, I'm just going to read you the 0:33:57.720 --> 0:34:02.640 item verbatim. Former Transportation Secretary Pete Boodage will return to 0:34:02.680 --> 0:34:05.480 his old state this week and rally with the Indiana 0:34:05.520 --> 0:34:10.960 Democratic Party against redistricting. That came from a press release. Meanwhile, 0:34:11.120 --> 0:34:14.040 Hacking Jeffrey spent the weekend in California raising millions for 0:34:14.680 --> 0:34:18.960 Fournia Proposition fifty, the Democrats redistricting ballot initiative. This is 0:34:19.000 --> 0:34:21.360 the second trip Jeffries is made to California to support 0:34:21.400 --> 0:34:26.319 the redistricting effort. This is to me the real sort 0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:29.359 of challenge for the Democrats. On one hand, they're trying 0:34:29.360 --> 0:34:33.120 to stop redistricting efforts, bringing in a national star to 0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:38.279 try to do it in Indiana. Simultaneously, they're going to 0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:41.120 California to raise money to try to support a re 0:34:41.120 --> 0:34:46.400 redistricting effort out there. You know, it doesn't take a 0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:52.640 communications genius to say, yaganta messaging problem right. Gone are 0:34:52.680 --> 0:34:55.960 the days where you could message in isolation. You could 0:34:56.000 --> 0:34:59.080 somehow talk to one group over here, tell them something, 0:35:00.040 --> 0:35:04.040 talk to another group one hundred miles away, and somehow 0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:07.040 they wouldn't hear. You know, you promised that you were 0:35:07.080 --> 0:35:09.720 going to deal with this landfill issue in this county 0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:12.480 over here. You told them, don't worry, the landfill's not 0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:15.279 coming to your county. It'll stay there. And you know, 0:35:16.320 --> 0:35:20.200 back when when communication wasn't shared so quickly, you know, 0:35:20.280 --> 0:35:22.719 a politician could essentially talk out of both sides of 0:35:22.719 --> 0:35:24.320 their mouth and get away with it for a period 0:35:24.360 --> 0:35:28.520 of time until reporters over time shared information quick enough 0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:32.759 that you couldn't do that. And I think this is 0:35:33.760 --> 0:35:36.920 what I was reading this item. You're like, it just 0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:41.880 made my head hurt. On one hand, a major Democratic 0:35:41.920 --> 0:35:45.040 Party star is trying to stop a redistricting effort in Indiana. 0:35:45.080 --> 0:35:47.759 On the other hand, a major Democratic star is going 0:35:47.760 --> 0:35:50.279 out to California to raise money to help a redistricting 0:35:50.280 --> 0:35:53.640 effort in another stay it. I think it goes to 0:35:54.800 --> 0:35:58.799 why this is again, I understand the tactical decision that 0:35:58.840 --> 0:36:01.680 the Democrats made here. Uh they feel as if, hey, 0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:05.759 look what they're doing they they had no choice, but 0:36:05.920 --> 0:36:11.040 it is a reminder of how complicated, uh this effort 0:36:11.640 --> 0:36:12.279 is going to be. 0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:13.320 Uh. 0:36:13.960 --> 0:36:15.759 One of the candidacy that I think you should keep 0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:20.759 an eye on that sort of fits. It's a little 0:36:20.760 --> 0:36:25.480 bit more on which which which wing of the Democratic 0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:30.399 Party is more ascended, right, the progressive wing or the 0:36:30.440 --> 0:36:36.680 moderate peacemaking wing. The Georgia primary for the Georgia Democratic 0:36:36.760 --> 0:36:40.359 primary for governor is becoming fascinating. You now have a 0:36:40.400 --> 0:36:44.200 former Republican Lieutenant governor, Jeff Duncan, right, who was an 0:36:44.239 --> 0:36:48.560 early Trump critic, was on a glide path. He was 0:36:48.560 --> 0:36:51.719 Brian Kemp's essentially, you know, on a you know, kind 0:36:51.760 --> 0:36:53.640 of running mate. I mean, you run for LG on 0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:57.400 your own, uh in a in a primary. But you 0:36:57.400 --> 0:37:00.720 know he was seen as potentially assumed era par to Kemp. 0:37:02.360 --> 0:37:06.480 Duncan became, you know, particularly after the attempt by Trump 0:37:06.520 --> 0:37:11.719 to essentially overturn the Georgia election, you know, twisting the 0:37:11.800 --> 0:37:16.000 arms of party operatives. Over time, became more and more 0:37:16.080 --> 0:37:18.080 of a Trump skeptic to the point where he is, 0:37:18.960 --> 0:37:24.480 you know, he has now changed parties completely elected as 0:37:24.520 --> 0:37:28.160 a Republican in Georgia. So you're not a moderate Republican 0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:32.239 when you're winning a primary, you're pretty conventional conservative Republican. 0:37:32.719 --> 0:37:35.479 As lieutenant governor in twenty eighteen and now eight years later, 0:37:36.160 --> 0:37:39.400 hopes to be the Democratic nominee for governor in twenty 0:37:39.440 --> 0:37:42.200 twenty six. Now, look so he clearly is more in 0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:47.080 that supermoderate lane. You now have a state Senator Jason Stevies, 0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:50.240 your former Atlanta mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, who has worked 0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:55.560 for Biden, state repend Derek Jackson, to a chief executive 0:37:55.560 --> 0:37:58.040 Michael Thurman, who I believes run for state wide office. 0:37:58.040 --> 0:38:01.280 Before it's suddenly a pretty crowd primary. There's a lot 0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:05.600 of Atlanta Democrats in there, which could give Duncan an 0:38:05.640 --> 0:38:08.520 opportunity if there's enough vote outside. If all of that, 0:38:08.680 --> 0:38:12.319 all of this vote gets split up there. But it's 0:38:12.360 --> 0:38:17.040 a just like the Michigan Democratic primary for Senate, there's 0:38:17.080 --> 0:38:21.200 a handful of Democratic primaries that if they all go 0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:24.000 in the same direction right the progressive wins or the 0:38:24.360 --> 0:38:27.640 or the more center center left person wins, it may 0:38:27.680 --> 0:38:30.919 directionally tell us where where are rank and file Democrats right? 0:38:31.200 --> 0:38:33.239 Are they angry and ready to go left? Or are 0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:37.480 they exhausted and frustrated? And looking for what I call 0:38:37.520 --> 0:38:41.759 our peacemakers right trying to trying to win win over 0:38:41.800 --> 0:38:47.800 the middle. But in particular now Georgia Democratic Primary for governor, 0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:54.239 Michigan Democratic Primary for Senate. Both of them feature candidates 0:38:54.239 --> 0:38:58.560 from all wings of the Democratic Party, so they're all 0:38:58.600 --> 0:39:02.359 going to be pretty good tests where the energy of 0:39:02.400 --> 0:39:05.960 the party is A couple more things to talk about quickly. 0:39:06.000 --> 0:39:10.120 On twenty twenty five, we're now seeing the real money 0:39:10.160 --> 0:39:12.400 is coming into both New Jersey and Virginia. There was 0:39:12.400 --> 0:39:16.560 some question with the National Republicans invest is heavily in 0:39:16.719 --> 0:39:18.719 Virginia as they did the last time. They now have 0:39:19.239 --> 0:39:22.840 and there's a real reason for that. Like it Ultimately 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:25.640 in the Republicans I've talked to about the Virginia races, 0:39:27.960 --> 0:39:31.000 it's not that they're conceding the governor's race to Abigail Spamberger, 0:39:31.040 --> 0:39:34.359 but they're conceding that it's an uphill battle, but they 0:39:34.400 --> 0:39:39.000 don't want to get swept. And if there's one candidacy 0:39:39.200 --> 0:39:42.040 that they're trying to save, it is the Attorney General 0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:46.239 Jason Miaris. And I had a smart Democrat say that 0:39:46.280 --> 0:39:50.040 he thinks it's the single most important race to understand 0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:53.920 whether Democrats truly have a shot at the midterms or 0:39:53.920 --> 0:39:58.680 whether Republicans can hold off the flip. And it's because 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:02.400 of the you know, you're seeing. You have a Republican 0:40:02.400 --> 0:40:06.200 incumbent with a lot of financial advantages. You have a 0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:10.600 Democratic challenger who's being painted as soft on crime, which 0:40:10.640 --> 0:40:14.520 is what both Republicans and Democrats tell me is is 0:40:14.920 --> 0:40:17.279 likely to be among the bread and butter issues you 0:40:17.800 --> 0:40:21.719 see in the midterms, especially if the economy is not good. 0:40:21.760 --> 0:40:24.719 Republicans are going to be running against Democrats is sort 0:40:24.719 --> 0:40:26.960 of softened the border, soft on crime, soft on law 0:40:27.000 --> 0:40:30.360 and order stuff, especially if they can't run in the economy, 0:40:30.480 --> 0:40:34.240 and right now things don't look great with the economy. 0:40:34.400 --> 0:40:36.200 And by the way, it may not matter, right the 0:40:36.239 --> 0:40:40.759 economy may be everything, and it may overwhelm that. But 0:40:40.840 --> 0:40:43.799 we're going to find out how effective can a law 0:40:43.840 --> 0:40:49.319 and order campaign overcome sort of momentum that autumn sort 0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:52.359 of sort of the momentum that the Democrats have as 0:40:52.360 --> 0:40:54.759 simply being the out party. Right, you know, they have 0:40:54.800 --> 0:40:57.000 a few advantages going for them in these off yer 0:40:57.040 --> 0:41:01.080 elections in Virginia, federal government workers being laid up, they 0:41:01.080 --> 0:41:04.760 have a lot of advantages can munt Can the financial 0:41:04.800 --> 0:41:06.759 advantage they will have, and the issue of law and 0:41:06.920 --> 0:41:11.560 order combat that right. That Virginia AG race this cycle 0:41:12.360 --> 0:41:18.799 could foreshadow what the midterms look like. In particular, we're 0:41:18.800 --> 0:41:21.279 seeing a little bit in the governor's race, and don't 0:41:21.280 --> 0:41:23.319 get me wrong, I think there'll be some culture war 0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:26.920 type back and forth between the two governors candidates. But 0:41:27.120 --> 0:41:30.000 in many ways all that, you know, there's Spamburger's now 0:41:30.040 --> 0:41:33.040 up with a lot of negatives, almost just exclusively in 0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:35.960 Northern Virginia hitting win some earl sears on just simply 0:41:36.080 --> 0:41:38.720 being supportive of Trump, which ironically she doesn't have Trump's 0:41:38.760 --> 0:41:42.120 endorsement yet I think she'll get it because everything is 0:41:42.160 --> 0:41:46.360 about helping turn out for the pot of the ticket 0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:49.520 there the AG candidate, and if you don't have people 0:41:49.600 --> 0:41:53.560 enthused about the gubernatorial candidate, he's going to you know, 0:41:53.680 --> 0:41:55.319 you're just going to have a turnout issue that's going 0:41:55.360 --> 0:41:57.560 to trickle down and cost you down the ballot. So 0:41:58.200 --> 0:42:00.839 I suspect Trump comes in. It's why the RGA, I think, 0:42:00.840 --> 0:42:02.640 has come in with real money to help the top 0:42:02.640 --> 0:42:05.480 of the ticket, because ultimately the one they're trying to 0:42:05.520 --> 0:42:08.239 seek and they save one of the three seeds that 0:42:08.239 --> 0:42:11.319 they currently hold in Virginia. As for New Jersey, you've 0:42:11.320 --> 0:42:13.919 seen the Republicans have also sort of equalized money there. 0:42:16.520 --> 0:42:18.239 We're going to have our first debates, They're going to 0:42:18.280 --> 0:42:22.440 have two debates. I want to watch those debates. I 0:42:22.480 --> 0:42:25.400 think that they may matter more than we fully appreciate. 0:42:25.760 --> 0:42:28.400 I think gubernatorial debates voters care a little bit more 0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:31.240 about than Senate debates. To be frank, I think Senate 0:42:31.280 --> 0:42:34.319 campaigns are always read versus blue again, one of the 0:42:34.400 --> 0:42:37.480 challenges for these independent candidates. But governor's races, I think 0:42:37.480 --> 0:42:41.040 more often there are voters that will, well, we'll choose 0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:44.120 a person over a party if there's a specific issue 0:42:44.120 --> 0:42:48.400 that really animates them. And that's why I actually want 0:42:48.440 --> 0:42:51.080 to withhold judgment. I have a sneaking suspicion that New 0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:53.440 Jersey is going to be awfully closed. But let's see 0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:56.040 how the debates play out on that front. And then 0:42:56.080 --> 0:42:58.360 we've seen it looks like Donald Trump is conceding the 0:42:58.360 --> 0:43:01.560 New York City mayor's race to Mom Donnie. It is 0:43:01.640 --> 0:43:05.799 fascinating to watch these progressive pressure campaign on a Keem 0:43:05.840 --> 0:43:08.680 Jeffries and Chuck Schumer, who have not yet endorsed Mom Donnie. 0:43:08.760 --> 0:43:13.080 The governor of New York did. But remember, everybody, you know, 0:43:13.320 --> 0:43:18.279 I talked about incentive structures at the top. Why does 0:43:18.360 --> 0:43:21.080 Kathy Hulkkele have to endorse Mom Donnie because she's got 0:43:21.080 --> 0:43:25.080 a primary challenger from the left. Neither Jeffries or Schumer 0:43:25.560 --> 0:43:28.440 are worrying about that at the moment. Hochel has to 0:43:28.440 --> 0:43:31.640 worry about that in the very very near term. Her 0:43:31.719 --> 0:43:36.000 numbers aren't that great anyway. She can't afford a very 0:43:36.040 --> 0:43:39.720 competitive primary that would likely be negative, ugly, and only 0:43:39.760 --> 0:43:45.000 make her potential campaign against the leastaphonic that much harder. 0:43:45.880 --> 0:43:50.040 So I look at the whocal endorsement as a She's 0:43:50.080 --> 0:43:53.200 got primary opponents, that's what she's worried about, and she 0:43:53.280 --> 0:43:59.160 can't afford to alienate the progressive flank as much. Jeffries 0:43:59.160 --> 0:44:01.720 has got a whole other He's got a whole bunch 0:44:01.760 --> 0:44:05.920 of Democrats running all over the country who are don't 0:44:05.960 --> 0:44:08.279 want the future Speaker of the House looking like they 0:44:08.360 --> 0:44:12.200 endorse a socialists. And so I don't envy the situation 0:44:12.320 --> 0:44:15.560 Jeffries finds himself in. But I go back Jeffries and 0:44:15.560 --> 0:44:20.000 Schumer should have been more hands on when Cuomo jumped 0:44:20.000 --> 0:44:22.360 into that race and basically screwed it all up for 0:44:22.400 --> 0:44:24.840 the for the for the mainstream wing of the Democratic Party. 0:44:26.200 --> 0:44:28.000 The fact that they sort of look the other way 0:44:30.440 --> 0:44:33.520 is arguably why they're in this situation they're in. But 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:36.080 that's a tough that's a tough position he's in politically. 0:44:39.719 --> 0:44:39.960 I know. 0:44:40.360 --> 0:44:43.800 I'm guessing Jeffries will end up endorsing him or voting 0:44:43.840 --> 0:44:47.799 for him, not endorsing him. We'll see. But I do 0:44:47.880 --> 0:44:53.000 think this is as much about his branding. What happens 0:44:53.040 --> 0:44:55.759 to his branding as the guy who's essentially running to 0:44:55.800 --> 0:44:59.400 be Speaker of the House in the midterms. There's a 0:44:59.480 --> 0:45:03.080 lot of Democrats running in House races that are nervous 0:45:03.080 --> 0:45:07.279 that he gets painted as a socialist. So I do 0:45:07.320 --> 0:45:11.000 think that is what's, among other things, politically, what's making 0:45:11.040 --> 0:45:14.200 it very uncomfortable for Jefferies. All right, So with that, 0:45:16.440 --> 0:45:18.640 let's have the interview. You're going to enjoy this conversation 0:45:18.719 --> 0:45:38.640 with two candidates running for the US Senate as pure independence. Well, 0:45:38.640 --> 0:45:43.200 we got a fun a little different type of interview today. 0:45:43.239 --> 0:45:45.000 Instead of one person, I have two candidates for the 0:45:45.120 --> 0:45:48.839 United States Senate running in super red states running as independents, 0:45:49.400 --> 0:45:51.719 not as major party candidates. We have Brian Bangs from 0:45:51.760 --> 0:45:56.080 South Dakota Todd Achilles from Idaho. They've agreed to appear 0:45:56.080 --> 0:45:58.279 together in some ways their campaigns are trying to be 0:45:58.320 --> 0:46:02.120 helpful to each other, share best practices, try to figure 0:46:02.120 --> 0:46:06.360 out what's the easiest way to raise money without getting 0:46:06.680 --> 0:46:09.560 sucked into one of the partisan vortexas which seem to 0:46:11.239 --> 0:46:15.040 can blow up independent candidacies in some cases. It's the 0:46:15.160 --> 0:46:18.360 model is a bit of what we saw in Nebraska 0:46:18.360 --> 0:46:21.440 with Dan Osborne. But that also But I hesitate to 0:46:21.440 --> 0:46:24.200 throw the Dan Osborne example out there because I don't 0:46:24.200 --> 0:46:27.680 think I think well, Brian and Todd probably share some 0:46:29.480 --> 0:46:31.600 issues where they agree with them. They may not agree 0:46:31.600 --> 0:46:34.120 with Dan on all issues, and everybody wants to be 0:46:34.160 --> 0:46:36.920 seen when you're running as an independent. You're an independent 0:46:36.960 --> 0:46:40.080 for a reason, as I like to say. And both 0:46:40.120 --> 0:46:42.000 Brian and Todd joined me. Now, thanks for agreeing to 0:46:42.040 --> 0:46:45.600 do this. And obviously you guys are familiar with each other, 0:46:45.640 --> 0:46:48.120 so you're, in fact you guys pitch this, so I 0:46:48.120 --> 0:46:48.759 appreciate it. 0:46:49.120 --> 0:46:51.880 Yeah, absolutely, thanks you, Yeah, thank you us. 0:46:52.280 --> 0:46:54.440 Look, I'm going to try to ping pong like my 0:46:54.600 --> 0:46:57.560 job as moderator, right, my job is to make sure 0:46:57.800 --> 0:46:59.439 so I will do my best to do this. So Brian, 0:46:59.520 --> 0:47:01.120 let me just start. Our simple question is going to 0:47:01.160 --> 0:47:04.680 be the same question for both of you. But why are 0:47:04.680 --> 0:47:06.600 you running? And why as an independent? 0:47:06.719 --> 0:47:06.960 You have? 0:47:07.719 --> 0:47:10.360 And you know why did you reject the major party? 0:47:11.400 --> 0:47:14.200 Well, I think South Dakota's won of multiple states where 0:47:14.239 --> 0:47:17.200 the national party politics don't serve regular folks, so the 0:47:17.280 --> 0:47:20.480 regular voters being left behind. Republicans take us for granted 0:47:20.600 --> 0:47:24.440 and Democrats forget we exist. And I've been a registered 0:47:24.440 --> 0:47:26.960 independent for ninety seven percent of my life, which is 0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:29.920 similar to a quarter of South Dakota's registered voters and 0:47:29.960 --> 0:47:33.400 nearly half of national voters. If you're paying attention to everybody, 0:47:33.920 --> 0:47:37.520 regular people like me, And obviously the independents are angry 0:47:37.560 --> 0:47:40.200 at the DC establishment and the party system that doesn't 0:47:40.200 --> 0:47:42.680 work for them, and I think justifiably so, So that's 0:47:42.719 --> 0:47:46.240 why I'm running because the system hasn't worked for regular 0:47:46.239 --> 0:47:47.200 folks for quite a while. 0:47:47.280 --> 0:47:50.799 Now, you ran as a Democrat once, talk about that. 0:47:51.200 --> 0:47:53.000 Obviously that experience soured you. 0:47:53.040 --> 0:47:57.920 Why Yeah, as I said, I was a registered independent, 0:47:57.960 --> 0:48:00.239 registered an independent when I was eighteen years old. Tinety 0:48:00.239 --> 0:48:04.319 seven percent of my life except for that experience. I 0:48:04.400 --> 0:48:08.440 was infuriated watching Americans beating law enforcement officers with polls 0:48:08.520 --> 0:48:11.560 and chanting for the murder the vice president. On January sixth, 0:48:12.120 --> 0:48:14.759 when the South Dakota Democratic Party was poised to give 0:48:14.840 --> 0:48:18.160 now Senate Majority leader John Thune an unchallenged free pass 0:48:18.160 --> 0:48:21.040 for reelection, I felt somebody needed to do something, so 0:48:21.080 --> 0:48:22.720 I stepped up to run. 0:48:23.000 --> 0:48:24.520 And of course I am not a. 0:48:24.480 --> 0:48:27.319 Multimillionaire by any step of the words, and I am 0:48:27.320 --> 0:48:30.200 a political novice. That was my first time doing anything, 0:48:31.280 --> 0:48:33.160 so I thought I could only be a legitimate candidate 0:48:33.200 --> 0:48:35.840 with one of the two parties, and I set aside, 0:48:36.000 --> 0:48:38.719 had to set aside my independent affiliation for what I 0:48:38.719 --> 0:48:42.720 thought was the pragmatic alternative to John Thune. What I learned, 0:48:42.920 --> 0:48:45.000 which is why I shaped why I'm doing this now, 0:48:45.640 --> 0:48:49.000 is that my approach in that race was I would 0:48:49.040 --> 0:48:51.080 go up to people introduce myself as a candidate, and 0:48:51.080 --> 0:48:53.320 I would go up to people wearing trump hats, introduce 0:48:53.360 --> 0:48:56.319 myself and literally say, I'm going to guarantee with one 0:48:56.360 --> 0:48:58.719 hundred percent certainty that you and I will agree on 0:48:58.760 --> 0:49:00.960 at least two, but probably three, and then I'd run 0:49:01.000 --> 0:49:02.800 down my list and they're not in along and typically 0:49:02.800 --> 0:49:04.880 it was all three and we get to the end 0:49:04.920 --> 0:49:06.800 and I'd say, so can I count on your vote November? 0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:08.560 And what do you think? The first words out of 0:49:08.600 --> 0:49:10.560 the mouthware which party do you belong to? 0:49:11.239 --> 0:49:12.000 What do you? 0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:12.600 What are you? 0:49:12.719 --> 0:49:12.799 So? 0:49:12.920 --> 0:49:13.400 What are you? 0:49:14.200 --> 0:49:16.280 And then you say, well, I was a lifelong independent, 0:49:16.280 --> 0:49:19.120 but I'm running as a Democrat. And far, far too 0:49:19.200 --> 0:49:21.680 many times I heard the I'll never vote for a 0:49:21.680 --> 0:49:24.400 Democrat and that was it. You know, we'd agreed on 0:49:24.480 --> 0:49:26.560 these things, and then they just said, no. 0:49:27.600 --> 0:49:30.120 What happened to the Tom Dashel voter? What happened to 0:49:30.120 --> 0:49:31.120 the Tim Johnson voter? 0:49:32.160 --> 0:49:34.200 They have gone away? 0:49:34.920 --> 0:49:35.520 I would say they. 0:49:37.560 --> 0:49:39.719 I mean, no, I don't. I mean, that's my curiosity. 0:49:40.400 --> 0:49:43.480 Do those same voters exist and they've just left the party, 0:49:43.560 --> 0:49:44.480 or do they leave the state. 0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:47.919 I will say that the current head of the South 0:49:48.000 --> 0:49:53.120 Dakota gop was a thirty year Democrat, so he was 0:49:53.120 --> 0:49:55.640 a registered Democrat for thirty times longer than I was, 0:49:56.480 --> 0:50:00.880 and he is now a hardcore mega individual. So the 0:50:00.960 --> 0:50:02.880 voters there, I think it's summed up in the I 0:50:02.960 --> 0:50:06.680 vote for the person, not the party. People still say 0:50:06.719 --> 0:50:09.319 that I heard it in twenty two, but they don't 0:50:09.360 --> 0:50:12.359 actually mean it, because as I said, yeah, I'll never 0:50:12.440 --> 0:50:14.919 vote for a Democrat. That is where those voters went. 0:50:15.840 --> 0:50:19.640 All right, Todd, your turn? Why independent? Why not either 0:50:19.719 --> 0:50:22.080 a Republican primary or the Democrats? 0:50:22.320 --> 0:50:25.719 Yeah, well, I think the core thing for me, I'm 0:50:25.760 --> 0:50:29.239 just I'm profoundly worried about what's happening in Congress and 0:50:29.280 --> 0:50:32.200 what's happening to the country. And it doesn't matter who's 0:50:32.239 --> 0:50:35.200 in power, we have the same get division and dysfunction. 0:50:36.320 --> 0:50:38.520 You know, I actually served as a Democrat in the 0:50:38.520 --> 0:50:42.200 Idaho Legislature for two sessions. You know, my district is 0:50:42.239 --> 0:50:44.960 twenty five percent registered Dems, and I won with sixty 0:50:44.960 --> 0:50:46.879 percent of the vote. And I'll tell you the number 0:50:46.880 --> 0:50:49.600 one thing I heard when I was knocking on doors is, wow, town, 0:50:49.640 --> 0:50:52.000 you're a better Republican than that crazy on the ballot. 0:50:53.560 --> 0:50:55.919 And when you look at Idaho, there's you know, there's 0:50:56.040 --> 0:50:58.960 multiple factions of the Republican Party. There's no good definition 0:50:58.960 --> 0:51:01.480 of what it means to be look and so now 0:51:01.600 --> 0:51:03.040 you know, the question is what does it mean to 0:51:03.080 --> 0:51:05.120 be conservative? And how do you meet the needs of 0:51:05.160 --> 0:51:11.279 the state. But you know, when you look at Idaho, 0:51:11.520 --> 0:51:16.000 we have this really strong tradition of being independent. So 0:51:16.080 --> 0:51:19.800 when we close the primaries in twenty twelve, seventy percent 0:51:19.800 --> 0:51:22.560 of Idahoans were unaffiliated with the party. Seventy percent. That 0:51:22.680 --> 0:51:26.520 was the highest in the country. Noise State University does 0:51:26.560 --> 0:51:29.800 an annual public policy survey, sixty five percent of Idahoans 0:51:29.960 --> 0:51:32.600 said they were they were independent, or they self identified 0:51:32.640 --> 0:51:35.279 as independent or I'm a Republican but I leaned independent. 0:51:36.719 --> 0:51:38.720 And importantly, a couple of years ago, when we passed 0:51:38.719 --> 0:51:43.160 medicaid expansion, we did it with sixty one percent of 0:51:43.160 --> 0:51:45.160 the vote. That was by far the highest of any 0:51:45.160 --> 0:51:47.839 red state in that country. Eighty percent of accountings voted 0:51:47.840 --> 0:51:50.880 for medicaid expansion. And so there's this, you know, on 0:51:50.960 --> 0:51:55.080 these consensus issues, Idahoans can come together, and that's what 0:51:55.280 --> 0:51:57.719 we're you know, we're trying to get back to those 0:51:57.800 --> 0:52:01.200 core values by being in an and not being part 0:52:01.239 --> 0:52:02.680 of the Republicans. 0:52:03.160 --> 0:52:06.480 Is it is it specifically the dem brand on cultural 0:52:06.520 --> 0:52:09.160 issues that made it impossible for you to talk to 0:52:09.239 --> 0:52:11.600 that voter that agreed with medicaid expansion. 0:52:12.880 --> 0:52:14.080 Yeah, it is. 0:52:14.160 --> 0:52:17.040 I mean, you know, you've had a decade of under 0:52:17.040 --> 0:52:19.200 investment in the DEM Party. You know, it's the same 0:52:19.200 --> 0:52:22.960 thing at South Dakota as Idaho, where the brand is 0:52:22.960 --> 0:52:26.400 is you know, there's there's been no pushback, there's no 0:52:26.560 --> 0:52:29.880 been no countervailing force. And and listen to DEM Party. 0:52:29.960 --> 0:52:32.319 The longest serving governor in the history of Idaho was 0:52:32.640 --> 0:52:33.640 Cecil Andrews. 0:52:33.800 --> 0:52:36.440 Yeah, he was all right time he served in the 0:52:36.440 --> 0:52:39.160 Carter administration right as Interior Secretary. 0:52:38.719 --> 0:52:41.799 Of that's exactly right. Yeah, okay, yeah, you're exactly right 0:52:41.920 --> 0:52:46.320 for four terms and the DEM. But it was those 0:52:46.560 --> 0:52:49.240 you know, there were kind of these core Idaho values 0:52:49.280 --> 0:52:53.439 where everybody could get behind ces and and I think 0:52:53.480 --> 0:52:56.319 the you know, the Republican Party itself, for i'll call 0:52:56.480 --> 0:53:00.359 the GOP leadership has really been taken over by John 0:53:00.400 --> 0:53:05.160 Bircher's and some Christian nationalists. So they don't represent Idahoans. 0:53:05.600 --> 0:53:07.799 You know, the DEM Party's got all of its own 0:53:07.840 --> 0:53:10.680 issues in the state. They're not really representing outa ho. 0:53:10.800 --> 0:53:12.759 And so if you think about both parties have kind 0:53:12.760 --> 0:53:14.319 of gotten into the corners, and you look at this 0:53:14.400 --> 0:53:18.720 big distribution of people in the middle who feels underrepresented, 0:53:18.719 --> 0:53:20.960 and that those are the folks we're trying to meet. 0:53:21.520 --> 0:53:24.000 What's interesting is both and I might address this to 0:53:24.040 --> 0:53:28.120 both of you because both of your states, the delegation 0:53:28.560 --> 0:53:32.120 out of South Dakota is not really Look, John Thune 0:53:32.120 --> 0:53:35.560 and Mike Rounds are not mega guys. They are sort 0:53:35.560 --> 0:53:37.719 of mega adjacent and have had to figure out they're 0:53:37.760 --> 0:53:40.760 trying to stay you can. I watch it, and I've 0:53:40.800 --> 0:53:42.840 interviewed Mike Rounds and John Thune a million times. I 0:53:42.920 --> 0:53:44.920 know them pretty well. I think I do at least 0:53:46.480 --> 0:53:49.640 so I know Jim Rish and Mike Simpson and Idaho 0:53:50.040 --> 0:53:53.520 are very much what i'd call Bush Republicans. Okay, whatever, 0:53:53.600 --> 0:53:58.480 that what the definition of conventional conservative Republican from the 0:53:58.520 --> 0:54:01.960 first decade of the century. You know that's Mike Simpson, right, 0:54:02.040 --> 0:54:08.239 That's that's Jim Reish. And yet, so I guess let 0:54:08.239 --> 0:54:10.920 me ask you. I'll start with you, Brian. You know 0:54:10.960 --> 0:54:19.400 why because in Kansas, when it was one party, basically 0:54:19.600 --> 0:54:22.960 the split and basically the Chamber of Commerce, Republicans said, 0:54:22.960 --> 0:54:24.720 you know, we are going to go support a Democrat 0:54:24.800 --> 0:54:27.120 for governor to create some balance. Now, we're not going 0:54:27.200 --> 0:54:29.480 to support Democrats for federal offices, but we're going to 0:54:29.560 --> 0:54:32.440 do that. Do you sense that the Republican Party is 0:54:32.440 --> 0:54:36.399 going to split in two? I mean where the mainstream 0:54:36.560 --> 0:54:40.320 sort of Mike Simpson Republicans going to go if the 0:54:40.360 --> 0:54:42.879 state Party keeps moving further and further to the right. 0:54:44.000 --> 0:54:48.000 Well, there is a fight going on right now in 0:54:48.400 --> 0:54:51.839 the state party state GP. We have I think last 0:54:51.840 --> 0:54:55.440 count was four candidates for governor right now. And you've got, 0:54:56.120 --> 0:54:59.239 you know, a super hardcore Mega and then you've got 0:54:59.600 --> 0:55:03.480 hardcore Omega, and then you've got Dusty Johnson is currently 0:55:03.480 --> 0:55:07.399 our representative in the House who's running. And he's tried. 0:55:07.520 --> 0:55:09.839 He's a former Truman scholar, He's a smart. 0:55:09.560 --> 0:55:12.200 Guy, he's not a mega guy, and he's trying to 0:55:12.200 --> 0:55:14.879 fit in. He's tried just enough. Like I say, look, 0:55:14.960 --> 0:55:17.439 I watched Mike Grounds, I watched Thune, right, I get 0:55:18.160 --> 0:55:21.680 I understand strategically what they're trying to do. The question 0:55:21.760 --> 0:55:23.200 is to vull voters by it, right. 0:55:23.719 --> 0:55:26.520 Yeah, So that'll be the challenge for them coming up 0:55:26.520 --> 0:55:30.080 in the primary for the governor's race of what's going 0:55:30.160 --> 0:55:33.520 to happen. And then our current Attorney General, Marty Jacklee 0:55:33.719 --> 0:55:35.400 is going to run for the House, and as far 0:55:35.440 --> 0:55:37.120 as I know, he's the only one who's announced for that. 0:55:37.680 --> 0:55:41.040 So he's got a pretty easy glide path and he 0:55:41.480 --> 0:55:43.960 I don't know that he's a mega guy, hardcore mega guy. 0:55:43.960 --> 0:55:47.759 He may be like softcore, but yeah, So what how 0:55:47.840 --> 0:55:50.080 this going to shake out? I don't know, because they're 0:55:50.080 --> 0:55:52.560 going to fight and they're gonna fight hard about this. 0:55:53.719 --> 0:55:56.680 And I agree with you that John Thune and Mike 0:55:56.760 --> 0:56:00.800 Rounds they're not hardcore mega and Mike Rounds has gotten 0:56:00.800 --> 0:56:03.360 criticized for that before. He's been labeled to Rhino Trump 0:56:03.360 --> 0:56:06.839 and fact labeled him rhino himself before changing his mind 0:56:06.880 --> 0:56:10.880 later when he fell in line. So what's going to happen? 0:56:11.440 --> 0:56:14.239 I don't know. I can't predict what the voters, that 0:56:14.280 --> 0:56:16.399 the GOP voters are going to do. But we've heard 0:56:16.440 --> 0:56:19.560 from several multiple GPO voters that are unhappy with the 0:56:19.600 --> 0:56:23.040 situation because this is obviously farm country. So the tariff 0:56:23.080 --> 0:56:26.399 situation and John Thune and Mike Rounds going like, oh no, 0:56:26.880 --> 0:56:28.600 do what you want with the tariffs, even though that 0:56:28.719 --> 0:56:32.200 is the legislative branch's power explicitly in the Constitution. 0:56:32.600 --> 0:56:33.239 It's all you. 0:56:33.880 --> 0:56:37.200 So is that hands off position going to help them? 0:56:37.640 --> 0:56:38.120 I don't know. 0:56:38.280 --> 0:56:39.400 This is a wild card. 0:56:39.480 --> 0:56:41.640 Well, that's what your candidacy is kind of test. I mean, 0:56:41.840 --> 0:56:48.960 I look, I there is to me the farm belts loosely, right, 0:56:49.120 --> 0:56:52.279 and it's the states that in particular have have got 0:56:52.320 --> 0:56:55.040 a lot of people that make a living exporting excess 0:56:55.200 --> 0:56:56.080 egg product. 0:56:56.520 --> 0:56:56.719 Right. 0:56:56.840 --> 0:56:59.960 We already feed ourselves, so we're exporting it. It's Kansas 0:57:00.040 --> 0:57:04.160 at Nebraska, that's Iowa, that's South Dakota, that's uh, frankly, 0:57:04.200 --> 0:57:07.160 you can you could say it's everybody grows soybeans, right, 0:57:07.200 --> 0:57:10.560 it's almost every state, and we're going to have soybeans 0:57:10.600 --> 0:57:14.000 literally just rotting. I have a feeling and not being 0:57:14.000 --> 0:57:18.600 able to get rid of it. Todd same in Idaho 0:57:18.800 --> 0:57:21.640 in some ways. How how have the Mike Simpsons and 0:57:21.800 --> 0:57:25.440 Jim Reisch's and even the look the governor got pushed 0:57:26.080 --> 0:57:31.120 from the right, you know kind of I'm still I 0:57:31.120 --> 0:57:35.400 think it was Governor little who you know, was was 0:57:35.440 --> 0:57:38.640 sort of so distraught over the mask wars that he 0:57:38.920 --> 0:57:41.400 that he got emotional about it, like what are we doing? 0:57:41.760 --> 0:57:44.160 Like you know, I'm not making anybody do this, but 0:57:44.200 --> 0:57:47.400 don't criticize somebody who does. And that was like how 0:57:47.480 --> 0:57:51.000 is that controversial? Right? And here was a very conservative 0:57:51.040 --> 0:57:53.320 guy being seen as not mega enough. 0:57:54.280 --> 0:57:57.400 Yeah, And I think that's just an indicative of where 0:57:57.440 --> 0:58:00.400 the Republican Party is is being cooled and ied be 0:58:00.560 --> 0:58:06.560 pulled from mainstream conservative values. And Governor Little, who I 0:58:06.600 --> 0:58:08.360 spent a lot of time with Governor Little when I 0:58:08.360 --> 0:58:10.800 was in legislature. I have a ton of respect for him. Uh, 0:58:11.160 --> 0:58:14.880 but it's he's in a really, really hard place. And 0:58:14.600 --> 0:58:18.080 I would push back on this idea of risk being 0:58:18.240 --> 0:58:21.120 a Bush Republican. Frankly, I'm a better Bush Republican than 0:58:21.200 --> 0:58:22.360 than Senator Rishes. 0:58:22.840 --> 0:58:23.320 Uh. 0:58:23.640 --> 0:58:26.600 You know, he he goes wherever he needs to go. 0:58:27.160 --> 0:58:27.360 Uh. 0:58:28.000 --> 0:58:31.400 He played games with public lands over the last couple 0:58:31.440 --> 0:58:33.520 of months, you know, when Senator Mike Lee was trying 0:58:33.560 --> 0:58:37.840 to trying to push that through. And you know, and 0:58:37.880 --> 0:58:40.840 public lands are sacred in Idaho, right, I mean this 0:58:40.920 --> 0:58:42.760 is hunter's Herder's. 0:58:42.400 --> 0:58:45.400 Tree huggers around the West and Midwest on that stuff, 0:58:45.440 --> 0:58:47.360 Like it's one of the reasons you live out there. 0:58:47.520 --> 0:58:51.280 It's for the land, not to develop it. Frankly, that's 0:58:51.320 --> 0:58:51.920 exactly it. 0:58:52.040 --> 0:58:54.480 And he played games with this thing and finally finally 0:58:54.520 --> 0:58:57.480 came around the last minute. And for the ag industry, right, 0:58:57.480 --> 0:59:00.720 there's only once the strategic industry the state of Idaho, 0:59:00.800 --> 0:59:03.600 and that's egg, right, It's about seventeen percent of the economy. 0:59:03.800 --> 0:59:07.280 And these tariffs are really scary for ag not only 0:59:07.320 --> 0:59:10.760 the terriffs, but but also all the market concentration going on. 0:59:11.240 --> 0:59:14.800 It's fertilizer and seed and chemicals and everything else. I mean, 0:59:14.800 --> 0:59:19.200 that's you know, farmers and growers are getting squeezed and 0:59:19.240 --> 0:59:22.320 it's not getting better. And I think the fundamental problem 0:59:22.360 --> 0:59:25.959 with Rish is that he's a career politician. And listen, 0:59:26.000 --> 0:59:27.920 the far right in idahook don't like him. The moderate 0:59:27.960 --> 0:59:32.200 Republicans don't like him. He hasn't done town halls. I've 0:59:32.240 --> 0:59:34.040 done more town halls in two weeks. And you know, 0:59:34.080 --> 0:59:35.920 we think he's done in ten years as best as 0:59:35.960 --> 0:59:40.680 we can account. And he's just lost touch with the 0:59:40.760 --> 0:59:44.439 challenges of Ida owns. And it's, you know, it's it's 0:59:44.480 --> 0:59:47.920 tough to live in our state. Wages are low, costs 0:59:47.960 --> 0:59:50.840 are high, and everybody's getting squeezed. And you know, Jim 0:59:50.960 --> 0:59:52.600 Yish just seems to be a loop of all these 0:59:52.840 --> 0:59:53.560 these challenges. 0:59:54.800 --> 0:59:57.000 One of the tougher questions you're going to have to 0:59:57.040 --> 1:00:01.440 answer for that swing voter that May who's probably a 1:00:01.480 --> 1:00:05.720 Republican but doesn't necessarily like the direction of the Republican Party, 1:00:05.760 --> 1:00:08.479 but isn't ready to be a Democrat? Okay, isn't ready 1:00:08.480 --> 1:00:11.040 to support the Democrats. The toughest question you're both going 1:00:11.120 --> 1:00:14.560 to be answered if you win, which party do you 1:00:14.720 --> 1:00:16.680 caucus with? That you still are going to have to 1:00:16.680 --> 1:00:19.280 make a choice. Right are you voting for Schumer? Are 1:00:19.280 --> 1:00:22.160 you voting for Thune? Right? Are you going to who 1:00:22.240 --> 1:00:26.040 do you organize with? And I'm going to preface this 1:00:26.240 --> 1:00:31.880 with a what a poster friend of mine described if 1:00:31.920 --> 1:00:35.240 it was the campaign, the Evan McMullen campaign against Mike Lee, 1:00:36.400 --> 1:00:40.200 where this poster is convinced that Evan McMullen said, definitively, 1:00:40.720 --> 1:00:43.200 if he wins, he'll vote he is going to vote 1:00:43.800 --> 1:00:46.920 with the Republicans to organize the Senate. That doesn't mean 1:00:46.960 --> 1:00:49.560 he'll vote with Republicans from all these issues, but he 1:00:49.600 --> 1:00:52.560 will vote that. Had he said it, it would have 1:00:52.560 --> 1:00:56.080 been the difference between winning or losing. U Tah's a 1:00:56.080 --> 1:01:00.520 pretty conservative state. So's Idaho. So I'll start with you. 1:01:00.640 --> 1:01:03.880 There's a populism to South Dakota that might might be 1:01:03.920 --> 1:01:06.280 slightly different to me than I think Idaho's electric. But 1:01:06.760 --> 1:01:09.360 I'm willing to be persuaded. But where are you on 1:01:09.400 --> 1:01:09.880 this question? 1:01:10.680 --> 1:01:10.840 Uh? 1:01:11.440 --> 1:01:11.720 Uh? 1:01:11.960 --> 1:01:15.760 Brian and I and Dana Nebraska and Tye in Mississippi. 1:01:16.360 --> 1:01:19.320 We've spent a lot of time talking about this. We 1:01:20.120 --> 1:01:24.040 listen to the root problem in Congress right now is 1:01:24.080 --> 1:01:27.920 the money is the corruption. And you know, we decided 1:01:27.960 --> 1:01:30.520 we're going to we're going to cauc us on our own, right, 1:01:30.560 --> 1:01:32.040 And if you just if you just look through the 1:01:32.120 --> 1:01:33.240 numbers and. 1:01:33.200 --> 1:01:35.600 How did that look? I get it, right? But those 1:01:35.640 --> 1:01:38.160 of us that cover that, you know, what does that mean? 1:01:39.320 --> 1:01:41.720 I think there's power in that person, right. I think 1:01:41.760 --> 1:01:45.520 if you guys, you know, one person can't do this, 1:01:45.880 --> 1:01:48.880 but four of you could, right, four or five of 1:01:48.920 --> 1:01:52.600 you could sort of say, hey, you got to work 1:01:52.640 --> 1:01:55.560 for our support, you know, and maybe if he gives 1:01:55.560 --> 1:01:57.720 me a committee chairmanship, I'll think about it. 1:01:58.000 --> 1:02:01.640 Right, And I think the mental strategies you deny a 1:02:01.760 --> 1:02:06.360 majority to either party. Right, So right now, it's fifty 1:02:06.400 --> 1:02:11.840 three Republicans, forty five Dems and two independents. You know, 1:02:12.200 --> 1:02:15.600 Dems may pick up two. Best case, you know that's 1:02:15.640 --> 1:02:18.400 probably you in a stretch. But you know, if two 1:02:18.440 --> 1:02:20.640 out of four of us win, you know, now you're 1:02:20.920 --> 1:02:25.640 you're forty nine Republicans, forty seven Dems, and four independents, right. 1:02:25.560 --> 1:02:26.520 So there's no majority. 1:02:27.360 --> 1:02:29.920 If all four of us win, it's forty seven, forty 1:02:29.960 --> 1:02:34.240 seven and six, yeah, right, counting counting Sanders and King. 1:02:35.080 --> 1:02:37.280 I might count Markowski in that. I don't think. You know, 1:02:37.400 --> 1:02:39.640 she's sort of in some ways arguably just like Bernie 1:02:39.680 --> 1:02:42.920 and King, which is she's one as an independent but 1:02:43.040 --> 1:02:45.640 caucuses with one side, right, yeah. 1:02:45.360 --> 1:02:48.200 Yeah, And you know I could from a policy standpoint, 1:02:48.240 --> 1:02:51.080 I'm incredibly aligned with Josh Holle, what he's doing around 1:02:51.080 --> 1:02:53.720 big tech, what he's doing on you know, minimum wage 1:02:53.760 --> 1:02:56.120 and other things. You know, I think there's another person 1:02:56.160 --> 1:02:57.960 where you can find some alignment on this thing. But 1:02:58.800 --> 1:03:03.480 the fundamental strategies you deny the majority to either party. 1:03:04.200 --> 1:03:06.640 You know, the independent has become the folk room. We're 1:03:06.680 --> 1:03:10.160 not beholden to these just massive money machines that both 1:03:10.160 --> 1:03:12.680 parties have built up. And then that's how you try 1:03:13.320 --> 1:03:16.840 this reform on campaign finance, on stock trading, on ending 1:03:16.920 --> 1:03:20.720 these revolving doors, all of this stuff to get the 1:03:21.120 --> 1:03:23.840 you know, all of these misincentives out of the out 1:03:23.880 --> 1:03:24.560 of the institution. 1:03:25.560 --> 1:03:30.360 Brian, I think your challenge is slightly greater because one 1:03:30.400 --> 1:03:34.960 thing about small states, they're aware that you need congressional 1:03:35.040 --> 1:03:39.160 leaders to make sure you don't get run over, right, 1:03:41.400 --> 1:03:45.160 And and I'm curious if you think Thune's leadership is 1:03:45.200 --> 1:03:47.600 actually an impediment to your candidacy. 1:03:50.000 --> 1:03:53.080 No, Actually, I would view it more as a benefit 1:03:53.120 --> 1:03:58.520 because when you contrast Senator Thune, who defeated majority leaders 1:03:58.520 --> 1:04:00.720 back in the day to get his seat in the Senate, 1:04:01.680 --> 1:04:04.360 Dashel delivered for South Dakota. So we have roads that 1:04:04.400 --> 1:04:07.560 were funded only because Dashel was there, and a variety 1:04:07.600 --> 1:04:11.560 of other infrastructure projects. So if that's how you judge things, 1:04:11.800 --> 1:04:15.920 then Dashell brought money in. If you look at Thune 1:04:15.960 --> 1:04:19.320 and Rounds now they are literally taking money out. So 1:04:19.440 --> 1:04:22.920 we're losing Medicaid funds, Medicare funds, and this and that 1:04:22.960 --> 1:04:27.120 and the other thing. Infrastructure funding goes away. So the 1:04:28.000 --> 1:04:31.840 point too, If that's the point, then the existence of 1:04:31.880 --> 1:04:35.400 Thune and the silence of Rounds as not advocating for 1:04:35.760 --> 1:04:39.440 things that South Dakota's want because hey, the party says 1:04:39.440 --> 1:04:40.520 we don't want to do this. 1:04:41.400 --> 1:04:43.120 That's not advocating for South Dakotins. 1:04:43.560 --> 1:04:46.840 So I am all on board with the discussion that 1:04:46.920 --> 1:04:50.320 Tie Todd and Dan and we are having about we 1:04:50.360 --> 1:04:52.960 need to change the status quo. The status quo is 1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:56.720 a product of both parties the dysfunction. So if we 1:04:56.800 --> 1:05:01.439 have people that say, I reject both parties, and here's 1:05:01.480 --> 1:05:03.480 what we stand for, the good government reforms and a 1:05:03.520 --> 1:05:07.000 variety of other things that we commonly agree on, and say, 1:05:07.440 --> 1:05:09.480 you are not going to be able to have a majority, 1:05:09.480 --> 1:05:10.480 and you are not going to be able to have 1:05:10.520 --> 1:05:12.680 a majority, but if you want our votes, you have 1:05:12.760 --> 1:05:14.960 to earn it. And we're looking out for the regular 1:05:14.960 --> 1:05:18.360 folks that work for a living. So that is the power. 1:05:18.360 --> 1:05:21.920 That's what we're selling here. I think fundamentally is the disruption, 1:05:22.200 --> 1:05:25.960 entire disruption of how the system is dysfunctional right now 1:05:25.960 --> 1:05:28.240 in the Senate. If you get three four of us 1:05:28.280 --> 1:05:31.960 in there, things have to change because there's no majority 1:05:32.000 --> 1:05:33.240 to do whatever you want to do. 1:05:44.680 --> 1:05:47.880 I like to think there is an appetite for disruption 1:05:48.040 --> 1:05:50.560 or else Barack Obama and Donald Trump wouldn't have been 1:05:50.600 --> 1:05:55.000 president right In some ways, both of their candidacies will 1:05:55.080 --> 1:05:57.760 prepace on the Hey, are you tired of the way 1:05:57.800 --> 1:06:02.920 the system has worked. Let's try something different. And I 1:06:03.320 --> 1:06:06.760 do think it explains each of their initial successes. So 1:06:07.280 --> 1:06:12.040 I buy the disruptive aspect, but it is here's another 1:06:12.040 --> 1:06:15.280 thing that aligns against you, frankly, it aligns against what 1:06:15.320 --> 1:06:18.720 I'm trying to build here. It's the information ecosystem really 1:06:18.760 --> 1:06:23.200 punishes the middle and nuance and independence. Right, it's very 1:06:23.200 --> 1:06:25.800 hard for you to get your message out. So Brian, 1:06:25.880 --> 1:06:32.240 let me start with you. You know, right, the the 1:06:32.240 --> 1:06:35.000 the way algorithms work, right, you either get pushed to 1:06:35.040 --> 1:06:36.520 the left or pushed to the right. 1:06:37.240 --> 1:06:38.200 And it's. 1:06:40.280 --> 1:06:42.680 Is that the biggest impediment you face, almost more than 1:06:42.720 --> 1:06:45.040 it is money or anything else. Is is the way 1:06:45.080 --> 1:06:52.200 the information stream works against the independent candidacies or independent media. 1:06:53.880 --> 1:06:56.480 I would say it doesn't work necessarily against independence only 1:06:56.520 --> 1:07:00.960 it works against all all candidates with out the money 1:07:00.960 --> 1:07:04.480 to just force their way in. Like on my I'm 1:07:04.520 --> 1:07:06.280 going to call it Twitter because that's what was born. 1:07:06.320 --> 1:07:06.440 Now. 1:07:06.520 --> 1:07:07.200 I know I did. 1:07:08.840 --> 1:07:11.920 I get these ads from the super hardcore mega candidate 1:07:11.920 --> 1:07:14.960 for governor and I've canceled them before, but he's forcing 1:07:15.040 --> 1:07:17.560 his ads in front of my eyes. 1:07:18.080 --> 1:07:20.440 Geolocation. I assume right, you're a South Dakotain. 1:07:20.560 --> 1:07:20.760 Yeah. 1:07:20.840 --> 1:07:21.320 Yeah, so. 1:07:22.920 --> 1:07:24.960 It's the way to force yourself in. So if you 1:07:24.960 --> 1:07:27.200 have the money, you can get yourself in there. The 1:07:27.280 --> 1:07:30.640 problem is that it takes money to buy getting in 1:07:30.680 --> 1:07:33.000 the information stream. So is it a problem for you 1:07:33.040 --> 1:07:35.560 if you don't have enough money? In twenty two Yeah, 1:07:35.680 --> 1:07:38.840 I was outspent fourteen to one, and I'm told that 1:07:38.920 --> 1:07:41.360 we had ads on TV, you know, right at the 1:07:41.480 --> 1:07:43.400 end when I could afford some, But I never actually 1:07:43.440 --> 1:07:47.280 saw any myself. So can't you know voters didn't They 1:07:47.280 --> 1:07:49.160 fundamentally just did not have any idea who I was 1:07:49.240 --> 1:07:52.040 or what I stood for. But when they heard who 1:07:52.040 --> 1:07:53.560 I was and what I stood for, they liked it. 1:07:53.600 --> 1:07:56.520 They just didn't know. So that is the big problem, 1:07:56.520 --> 1:07:58.600 I would say, And that's why the elections are now 1:07:58.640 --> 1:08:01.280 so expensive, because you have to spend so much to 1:08:01.440 --> 1:08:03.040 get the attention of people. 1:08:03.400 --> 1:08:05.040 What are you trying to do differently this time that 1:08:05.080 --> 1:08:06.520 you did in twenty twenty two. 1:08:06.640 --> 1:08:10.320 Well, I'm trying to have more money, So that's the making. 1:08:10.920 --> 1:08:13.640 But now we've got a different game that we've organized. 1:08:13.680 --> 1:08:18.240 I learned a lot, so and your point about the 1:08:18.240 --> 1:08:21.439 fact that Nuance is lost. I'm a former professor and 1:08:21.680 --> 1:08:25.480 I'm an attorney by training, so I'm very much. 1:08:25.280 --> 1:08:27.120 You live in the gray area. You know how to 1:08:27.160 --> 1:08:27.839 work gray. 1:08:27.680 --> 1:08:31.400 Area details where you make your money. So I want 1:08:31.439 --> 1:08:34.200 to dive into that stuff. But that's my biggest difficulty 1:08:34.200 --> 1:08:36.120 as a candidate is I have to be able to 1:08:36.120 --> 1:08:40.639 shorten it down to a slogan. That is a problem 1:08:40.680 --> 1:08:44.160 for me because I need to talk about the details. 1:08:44.800 --> 1:08:48.280 And so we're using substack to explain policy positions that 1:08:48.280 --> 1:08:51.120 I'm putting out of like, hey, here's this background and 1:08:51.160 --> 1:08:52.840 here's why I think this. 1:08:53.680 --> 1:08:54.360 So when I put it. 1:08:54.400 --> 1:08:56.280 Up on my website where I have like a sentence 1:08:56.360 --> 1:08:58.519 or something, ideally I can have a link to the 1:08:58.560 --> 1:09:01.160 substack that says here's a whole bunch of backstory to this. 1:09:01.880 --> 1:09:04.080 But yeah, fundamentally, we need to be able to afford 1:09:04.120 --> 1:09:06.160 to put it out and force it in front of 1:09:06.200 --> 1:09:08.360 people's eyes because they're going to like what they see. 1:09:08.400 --> 1:09:10.479 I know that already from the twenty two race. 1:09:11.040 --> 1:09:14.680 Todd, how would you describe that challenge? Right? Which is 1:09:14.840 --> 1:09:18.080 just the way the algorithms are aligned against the middle. 1:09:18.320 --> 1:09:21.120 I mean, they're just look, I think this is our problem, right, 1:09:21.160 --> 1:09:28.320 we're all of the incentive I have been channeling the 1:09:28.360 --> 1:09:31.719 Milton Friedman quote, a great Milton Freedman quote that said, 1:09:31.880 --> 1:09:33.400 you can elect all the good people in the world. 1:09:33.439 --> 1:09:35.600 If you don't have good incentive structures, they're not going 1:09:35.680 --> 1:09:37.760 to do the right thing. Bad people will do the 1:09:37.800 --> 1:09:41.679 right thing if you have really good incentives. So there's 1:09:41.680 --> 1:09:44.240 some truth to that. Right, we have terriblest incentive structure, 1:09:44.760 --> 1:09:49.840 and the incentives work against moderation and work against sort 1:09:49.880 --> 1:09:54.200 of if you don't fit into left right paradigm, how 1:09:54.240 --> 1:09:56.519 are you trying to be? Back at this? 1:09:57.600 --> 1:10:01.559 I guess I push back that, you know, being being 1:10:01.680 --> 1:10:03.439 moderate or being in the middle, is it? Is it 1:10:03.680 --> 1:10:05.679 necessarily boring? 1:10:06.360 --> 1:10:06.639 Uh? 1:10:06.760 --> 1:10:06.960 You know? 1:10:07.120 --> 1:10:09.640 I I was inspired by John Hay and. 1:10:11.280 --> 1:10:14.080 I think it's quite interesting because you end up having 1:10:14.120 --> 1:10:16.640 interesting debates in the middle when you're when you're a 1:10:16.720 --> 1:10:19.200 bunch of people you agree with, it's boring, you know. 1:10:20.320 --> 1:10:22.479 But just an example of this. So so in the 1:10:22.520 --> 1:10:25.880 last session of the Idaho legislature, you know, I was 1:10:25.960 --> 1:10:27.760 I was thinking about how to highlight just some of 1:10:27.800 --> 1:10:30.559 these really dumb bills that come across and I was 1:10:30.600 --> 1:10:33.200 sort of inspired by you remember John McCaine used to 1:10:33.240 --> 1:10:36.160 have those pork awards. So there was a dumpster outside 1:10:36.200 --> 1:10:39.280 the Idaho capital and I would do my dumpster bill 1:10:39.320 --> 1:10:41.559 of the week and people love that. And you know, 1:10:41.560 --> 1:10:43.320 it was just thirty seconds. And you know, here are 1:10:43.320 --> 1:10:46.880 the three reasons why this bill is just ridiculous. And 1:10:47.040 --> 1:10:49.840 uh and I got a ton of traffic people coming 1:10:49.920 --> 1:10:53.480 up to me in coffee shops and in restaurants. 1:10:53.560 --> 1:10:56.400 You know, yeah, just we. 1:10:56.920 --> 1:11:00.479 Just uh you know, continued that thing, and uh, you know, 1:11:00.560 --> 1:11:04.320 and these these platforms are are difficult, but with the 1:11:04.400 --> 1:11:07.960 right message targeted in the right way, they can actually 1:11:08.040 --> 1:11:11.800 be used. But honestly, Chuck, I think the fundamental thing 1:11:11.840 --> 1:11:13.479 in the state, like I, I mean, we're only two 1:11:13.520 --> 1:11:16.160 million people, uh, is you got to get out and 1:11:16.200 --> 1:11:19.200 have the conversations and meet with people. And I you know, 1:11:19.240 --> 1:11:21.559 I've been doing a statewide tour. We just wrapped up 1:11:21.560 --> 1:11:23.840 the third leg of this thing. I've done twenty more 1:11:23.880 --> 1:11:27.679 than twenty town halls, traveled all over the state, I mean, 1:11:27.760 --> 1:11:31.720 and just reinforcing what an incredible place Idaho is. But 1:11:31.960 --> 1:11:34.680 this is it. It's these face to face conversations. It's 1:11:34.840 --> 1:11:37.719 it's talking with local reporters and the local weekly paper 1:11:39.080 --> 1:11:43.200 and this is you know, we're building a huge volunteer organization. 1:11:43.360 --> 1:11:45.320 This is how we're going to win in November twenty 1:11:45.360 --> 1:11:47.720 six it's it's face to face, it's conversations. 1:11:48.520 --> 1:11:55.439 Let's talk about the national climate. Brian, Uh, what's your 1:11:56.560 --> 1:12:00.759 what's what's your diagnosis at how we got here where 1:12:00.920 --> 1:12:06.559 political violence is now no longer shocking that it just happens. 1:12:06.600 --> 1:12:09.559 I mean, we may have been surprised that Charlie Kirk 1:12:10.560 --> 1:12:16.240 was killed, but I wasn't shocked that political violence erupted again. 1:12:16.280 --> 1:12:17.960 We've had it all year long. We've had it for 1:12:18.000 --> 1:12:20.799 the last I would argue that we've had a decade 1:12:20.800 --> 1:12:26.679 of escalating violent episodes. January sixth We can rattle them off, 1:12:26.760 --> 1:12:31.840 and you can, and they're sadly pretty bipartisan. How do 1:12:31.880 --> 1:12:32.639 you think we got here? 1:12:33.560 --> 1:12:36.720 Well, which you were just talking about information. So we 1:12:36.800 --> 1:12:42.400 live in information silos where the logarithm pushes you to, Hey, 1:12:42.439 --> 1:12:44.080 you like that one, so you like this one. Oh, 1:12:44.080 --> 1:12:46.439 here's another one that you'll like and you didn't like 1:12:46.520 --> 1:12:48.360 these other things, so you're not going to hear anything 1:12:48.360 --> 1:12:51.920 from the other side. So it by design functions that way, 1:12:52.760 --> 1:12:56.160 and we get the anger and fear motivates people. So 1:12:56.680 --> 1:12:59.800 that's where we are. And not to dismiss the fact 1:12:59.840 --> 1:13:03.759 that we've had increasing not political violence, but increasing violence 1:13:03.760 --> 1:13:08.920 with guns over the last you know, several decades, but fundamentally, 1:13:10.000 --> 1:13:13.960 democracy is supposed to be a pressure relief valve for 1:13:14.200 --> 1:13:17.559 these conflicts, for these arguments that we're having. And if 1:13:17.600 --> 1:13:19.760 we think that democracy isn't working, which is one of 1:13:19.760 --> 1:13:22.120 the things that I believe that it's the system is 1:13:22.439 --> 1:13:26.879 corrupted by money, principally to serve some aspect of society 1:13:26.920 --> 1:13:29.679 and leave the rest of us down here fighting for scraps. 1:13:30.560 --> 1:13:33.320 When we're fighting for scraps. You know, if you think 1:13:33.360 --> 1:13:35.800 about a pack of dogs that are hungry, they fight 1:13:35.880 --> 1:13:38.680 each other for things, and that's what we're seeing. If 1:13:38.720 --> 1:13:40.840 we can fix democracy, I think we can fix the 1:13:42.600 --> 1:13:46.680 prospect of political violence and minimize it. If you can 1:13:46.840 --> 1:13:50.080 just vote and say, hey, I disagree with you, here's 1:13:50.120 --> 1:13:51.879 my vote, and it actually matters. 1:13:52.960 --> 1:13:55.320 Brian, what do you do with the following voter? Because 1:13:55.360 --> 1:13:58.320 I ran into this in twenty four you know, which 1:13:58.360 --> 1:14:02.920 is the voter that says, yeah, I'm concerned about the democracy, 1:14:02.960 --> 1:14:05.680 but I got to make ends meet first. What do 1:14:05.680 --> 1:14:09.080 you say to that voter who says I will get Yeah, 1:14:09.160 --> 1:14:12.400 I agree with you on democracy, but that feels like 1:14:12.439 --> 1:14:14.680 a that's something I'm gonna worry about down the road. 1:14:14.720 --> 1:14:17.120 In the meantime, I got to figure out healthcare, I. 1:14:17.080 --> 1:14:20.679 Would say those that's the same question. You've just highlighted 1:14:20.680 --> 1:14:22.760 the same thing. Why do you have that? Why is 1:14:22.760 --> 1:14:25.040 our healthcare so expensive? Why do we pay the highest 1:14:25.040 --> 1:14:29.800 per capital colls in the world, because the system rewards that. 1:14:30.160 --> 1:14:31.920 If you look at who the donors are for the 1:14:32.479 --> 1:14:34.880 Blue Cross Blue Shield, who they given money to, it's 1:14:34.960 --> 1:14:37.360 kind of split down the middle between the Democrats and Republicans. 1:14:37.400 --> 1:14:39.479 Yeah, what if I tell you right, I just want 1:14:39.520 --> 1:14:41.000 to keep it well right. 1:14:41.040 --> 1:14:44.040 The money has corrupted the system. And if you have 1:14:44.080 --> 1:14:46.600 the politicians that are beholden to who wrote me the 1:14:46.600 --> 1:14:49.280 biggest check. And I felt this pressure in twenty two 1:14:49.400 --> 1:14:51.840 of if I got a large check, if somebody maxed 1:14:51.840 --> 1:14:54.840 out to me, then the next time they call, I'm 1:14:54.840 --> 1:14:58.400 taking the call. Just because that's how the system works. 1:14:58.840 --> 1:15:01.640 I'm doing a different approach time. So the bolt my 1:15:01.720 --> 1:15:05.000 average contribution for the first quarter that I was in 1:15:05.120 --> 1:15:07.840 was twenty one dollars, and if you contrast that with 1:15:07.960 --> 1:15:12.120 Mike Rounds, he had two hundred large dollar contributors and 1:15:12.160 --> 1:15:14.960 he had eighty seven percent of his funds came from 1:15:15.040 --> 1:15:18.800 two hundred packs and the big money individuals. So the 1:15:18.840 --> 1:15:21.160 way we do politics and the fact that this is 1:15:21.200 --> 1:15:24.559 allowed and the Supreme Court says, oh no, there's no 1:15:24.680 --> 1:15:27.880 problem with you know, given money, you should have more 1:15:27.920 --> 1:15:30.800 money in politics. This is the problem. Why are things 1:15:30.880 --> 1:15:33.680 bad for you? Why is healthcare so expensive because of politics? 1:15:34.040 --> 1:15:38.400 Why is there inflation that's not being addressed because of politics? This, 1:15:38.400 --> 1:15:40.559 this is the issue. It's the same thing. We need 1:15:40.600 --> 1:15:42.160 to fix democracy to make it work. 1:15:43.680 --> 1:15:46.680 Look, I don't disagree with you with your resc The 1:15:46.720 --> 1:15:49.240 problem is voters. I mean, I want to get to 1:15:49.280 --> 1:15:52.679 the campaign finance thing a little bit, but in a minute, 1:15:52.720 --> 1:15:57.080 because it is one of the great conundrums when when 1:15:57.600 --> 1:15:59.920 you present voters with the data that you just present 1:16:00.040 --> 1:16:03.439 that they agree You're right. This system is messed up. 1:16:03.960 --> 1:16:06.200 But it has been really hard to make campaign finance 1:16:06.240 --> 1:16:08.680 a voting issue, right the way people will vote on 1:16:08.720 --> 1:16:11.160 gun rights. They don't seem to vote on this on 1:16:11.200 --> 1:16:14.080 this issue with that same fervor. But I'm going to 1:16:14.120 --> 1:16:17.160 put a pin in that because Todd, I'm curious where 1:16:17.200 --> 1:16:20.760 you are in the climate issue. Yeah, I mean from 1:16:20.800 --> 1:16:23.360 the Charlie Kirk situation and this. Look, there's a race 1:16:23.439 --> 1:16:26.040 to blame, right and I can already feel it right 1:16:26.600 --> 1:16:31.360 each side. It's yeah, budding, Yeah, we have our crazies, 1:16:31.560 --> 1:16:35.759 but they're worse. And you're like, that's not how we get. 1:16:35.600 --> 1:16:35.880 Out of this. 1:16:36.520 --> 1:16:40.320 Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's wrong because political and 1:16:40.400 --> 1:16:44.559 violence is wrong. Charlie was exercising against first and themment 1:16:44.680 --> 1:16:47.799 and not heiden, you know, or pounding away on a keyboard. 1:16:47.840 --> 1:16:51.280 He was there in these groups having these conversations. He 1:16:51.400 --> 1:16:53.160 was doing exactly what we what we need. 1:16:53.200 --> 1:16:55.240 He said that, we said, this is how you're supposed 1:16:55.280 --> 1:16:57.360 to conduct politics, which is you go out there and 1:16:57.400 --> 1:16:59.360 make your case. You know, whether you may not like 1:16:59.400 --> 1:17:02.640 the cases making, but that's how you're supposed to do it, 1:17:02.760 --> 1:17:05.320 not you know, not rig the system. And he wasn't 1:17:05.360 --> 1:17:06.760 you know, trying to do that. 1:17:06.760 --> 1:17:09.160 That's that's exactly it. And you know, so much of 1:17:09.200 --> 1:17:12.400 this is where we're spending you know, where Americans are 1:17:12.439 --> 1:17:16.760 spending their hours during the day on these platforms with 1:17:16.920 --> 1:17:20.320 these you know, algorithms that are driving outrage because that's 1:17:20.360 --> 1:17:23.160 where the profit is, right, Uh, And I think just 1:17:23.520 --> 1:17:27.759 you connecting, connecting these these economic issues, these reform issues. 1:17:28.040 --> 1:17:29.519 I mean one of the things I've I've really been 1:17:29.600 --> 1:17:31.960 highlighting on. And you know, I spent twenty years on 1:17:32.000 --> 1:17:34.000 the tech sector, working for you know, T Mobile and 1:17:34.040 --> 1:17:37.760 Hewlett Packard through the biggest companies in the US, and 1:17:37.880 --> 1:17:43.360 you just see these these outrageously bad corporate practices going on. 1:17:43.479 --> 1:17:45.720 And you know, I was driving back from me sir 1:17:45.800 --> 1:17:47.920 in Idaho a couple of weeks ago, stopped off at 1:17:47.920 --> 1:17:51.800 a Sinclair station to gas up. You know, one woman 1:17:52.360 --> 1:17:56.240 about my age running the convenience store late at night. 1:17:56.360 --> 1:17:59.320 She was working until midnight. You know, she makes eighteen 1:17:59.360 --> 1:18:01.280 bucks an hour in a part of Idaho where you 1:18:01.360 --> 1:18:06.120 need twenty three just to live, no healthcare. And Sinclair, 1:18:06.280 --> 1:18:09.120 if you look at their twenty twenty four financials, twenty 1:18:09.200 --> 1:18:12.799 nine billion dollars of revenue, a billion dollars of operating income, 1:18:12.840 --> 1:18:15.200 and what do they do with that operating income? It 1:18:15.240 --> 1:18:17.479 didn't go back to their employees and went to their 1:18:17.479 --> 1:18:20.760 freaking and institutional investors in the form of dividends and 1:18:20.800 --> 1:18:23.960 share buybacks. Right, that's the kind of stuff that makes 1:18:23.960 --> 1:18:27.040 a difference in these lives. Walmart's the same thing. Walmart's 1:18:27.080 --> 1:18:30.799 the largest private employer in the state. And guess when 1:18:30.840 --> 1:18:33.639 you talk to Idahoans wore in the Medicaid expansion program, right, 1:18:33.640 --> 1:18:36.560 they have jobs, but not enough to qualify for the 1:18:36.600 --> 1:18:40.120 health exchange. The number one employer of the eighty thousand 1:18:40.160 --> 1:18:44.639 Idahoans in the Health Exchange or sorry, Medicaid expansion is Walmart, 1:18:44.720 --> 1:18:48.719 followed by McDonald's, followed by Amazon. Right, I mean it's 1:18:48.840 --> 1:18:51.840 these and Walmart did close to three billion dollars to 1:18:51.880 --> 1:18:54.840 share buybacks last year. That's about two thousand dollars for 1:18:54.880 --> 1:18:57.559 every one of their US employees. I mean, this kind 1:18:57.560 --> 1:19:01.120 of stuff is just fundamentally un acceptable that we allow 1:19:01.240 --> 1:19:05.919 corporations to push their costs onto taxpayers and the particularly 1:19:05.960 --> 1:19:07.799 in a you know, in a small state like Idaho, 1:19:08.680 --> 1:19:11.479 where Walmart does three billion dollars of revenue in the state. 1:19:12.680 --> 1:19:15.519 You know, this is the kind of stuff that guys 1:19:15.680 --> 1:19:19.640 like Jim Risch, they just chipped away at these guardrails 1:19:19.720 --> 1:19:23.439 we've had on what's acceptable in the private sector over 1:19:23.479 --> 1:19:26.479 the last decade or two, and now we just got 1:19:26.520 --> 1:19:30.439 this where folks are running amok and you've got. You know, basically, 1:19:30.520 --> 1:19:34.240 sixty percent of Idahoes aren't earning a livable wage of 1:19:34.240 --> 1:19:37.960 the state chuck. And that's just flat fricking wrong, right, 1:19:38.120 --> 1:19:39.600 we cannot tolerate that. 1:19:41.479 --> 1:19:44.840 And how many of those folks just and and look, 1:19:44.880 --> 1:19:50.439 this gets at to where the issues that the economic 1:19:50.479 --> 1:19:54.920 populist issues are popular. But the this is where the 1:19:54.960 --> 1:19:56.760 culture sort of gets in the way of the conversation, 1:19:56.840 --> 1:19:57.240 doesn't it. 1:19:58.640 --> 1:20:01.400 And this is why as an independent I can have 1:20:01.439 --> 1:20:03.639 a conversation with these folks in a way I never 1:20:03.760 --> 1:20:07.360 could as a debt and you know, all the corruption 1:20:07.479 --> 1:20:09.800 the dem Party, what happened with you know, Biden running 1:20:09.840 --> 1:20:11.599 a can and handing it over to Harris. I mean 1:20:11.640 --> 1:20:15.040 that was all. That was all just that was all unacceptable. 1:20:15.560 --> 1:20:17.479 But you know, I tell you I was in a 1:20:17.560 --> 1:20:20.280 rural community up in the mountains in the Idaho Panhandle 1:20:21.360 --> 1:20:23.400 hanging out with the vets for coffee, and one of 1:20:23.400 --> 1:20:25.519 them came up to me afterwards and he said, you 1:20:25.560 --> 1:20:29.200 know what, I'm an extreme conservative, Like, all right, cool man, 1:20:29.280 --> 1:20:32.000 what does that mean? Oh? He had a great conversation, 1:20:32.040 --> 1:20:34.800 you know, and he's he is deeply concerned about the 1:20:34.880 --> 1:20:36.680 national debt. I'm like, man, I'm right there with you. 1:20:36.800 --> 1:20:38.519 That has to be a bright d lot. We can't 1:20:38.560 --> 1:20:40.800 grow this thing. And then as we talked about it 1:20:40.840 --> 1:20:42.759 some more, you know, the guy had a heart attack 1:20:42.840 --> 1:20:45.400 six months ago in that little rural hospital in this 1:20:45.479 --> 1:20:48.880 town that is just barely keeping their doors open right now, 1:20:48.960 --> 1:20:52.120 saved his life. And with the one big beautiful bill 1:20:52.200 --> 1:20:53.920 and the Medicaid cuts that are going to come out 1:20:53.960 --> 1:20:56.479 of that, And I sat down with that hospital CEO, 1:20:56.560 --> 1:20:58.720 He's like, I don't know how we're going to keep 1:20:58.720 --> 1:21:01.280 the doors open out to this. I mean, this is 1:21:01.320 --> 1:21:03.479 the kind of stuff where what the hell are you know? 1:21:03.520 --> 1:21:06.000 We've got two of the most powerful senators out of 1:21:06.040 --> 1:21:08.679 the hundred and Idahope, the state is punching way above 1:21:08.720 --> 1:21:11.720 its weight in terms of influence in the Senate. And 1:21:11.760 --> 1:21:12.559 what the hell do we get? 1:21:12.560 --> 1:21:13.320 What do you get get? 1:21:13.320 --> 1:21:16.120 What do you get in return? Interesting, Brian, Let's go 1:21:16.200 --> 1:21:21.479 back to the issue of campaign finances, because you know 1:21:21.560 --> 1:21:24.519 everything you say is true and in fact, you know, 1:21:24.560 --> 1:21:26.639 I've been hawking a book at a friend of mine 1:21:26.640 --> 1:21:29.840 wrote with its brother Mullin's brothers, and it was the 1:21:30.920 --> 1:21:33.400 basically the Wolf of Case, the Wolves of k Street. 1:21:33.479 --> 1:21:37.920 It's called and it's sort of how how did we 1:21:38.000 --> 1:21:42.080 go from essentially, you know, the rise of lobbyists, which 1:21:42.120 --> 1:21:45.000 really didn't exist in the sixties and seventies. It just 1:21:45.040 --> 1:21:48.360 sort of began sort of, you know, the rise of 1:21:48.439 --> 1:21:51.360 Ralph Nader got Corporate America to say, hey, we got 1:21:51.360 --> 1:21:53.479 a response to this, and lo and behold, we got 1:21:53.560 --> 1:21:56.920 K Street and it's a very professionalized thing. And now 1:21:58.000 --> 1:22:00.519 we have it where it's no longer used to be 1:22:00.800 --> 1:22:04.040 a corporate entity versus a people powered entity. Now it 1:22:04.120 --> 1:22:08.040 is literally one corporate entity hiring one set of lobbyists 1:22:08.080 --> 1:22:10.559 to fight for a certain regulation that helps their business 1:22:10.800 --> 1:22:15.000 and screws their competitor, and another setup like we now 1:22:15.040 --> 1:22:17.920 have K Street is just arguing about who's splitting up 1:22:17.960 --> 1:22:20.240 this piece of pie that never trickles down to the 1:22:20.280 --> 1:22:22.559 rest of us. Like you know, I used to sort 1:22:22.600 --> 1:22:24.720 of be like, well, the system's the system, blah blah blah. 1:22:24.800 --> 1:22:27.200 Now you're just like, we've sort of it's become too 1:22:27.240 --> 1:22:30.280 efficient where now you need lobbyists to decide who gets 1:22:30.320 --> 1:22:37.360 to get to rig the regulatory process. But it's always 1:22:37.360 --> 1:22:40.000 been a challenge to get the public fired up about money. 1:22:40.960 --> 1:22:45.200 And you know, you know, have you what are different 1:22:45.240 --> 1:22:49.400 ways you've thought of trying to send this message. I mean, 1:22:49.400 --> 1:22:52.280 you've been using it with me here tonight, Brian, But 1:22:52.880 --> 1:22:55.000 what other thoughts of you tried to get the public 1:22:55.040 --> 1:22:57.080 to sort of be a bit more self aware about 1:22:57.200 --> 1:22:58.040 corporate influence. 1:23:00.120 --> 1:23:01.920 That was actually one of the things of the when 1:23:01.960 --> 1:23:04.200 I mentioned, hey, I'm going to guarantee will agree on 1:23:04.200 --> 1:23:07.240 the least two, but probably three things. Money in politics 1:23:07.560 --> 1:23:11.080 corrupts the system. Everybody literally one hundred percent across the 1:23:11.080 --> 1:23:11.960 board agreement about it. 1:23:12.120 --> 1:23:16.080 Yes, everybody's that's true, right, Yeah, they notice, right. 1:23:16.960 --> 1:23:20.839 People have the elected officials wearing NASCAR jackets with patches 1:23:20.880 --> 1:23:22.200 of who they actually. 1:23:22.920 --> 1:23:23.519 Yeah, why not? 1:23:23.760 --> 1:23:26.840 It might help, uh talking. 1:23:26.479 --> 1:23:29.719 To people about everybody knows it from top to bottom. 1:23:30.240 --> 1:23:33.679 But I think the what got in the way again 1:23:33.760 --> 1:23:35.760 I'm going to say, was the fact of I'll never 1:23:35.840 --> 1:23:40.639 vote for a Democrat. We can have this discussion as 1:23:40.680 --> 1:23:43.639 an independent and not deal with the I'll never vote 1:23:43.640 --> 1:23:45.920 for a Democrat. And so if I walk up to 1:23:45.920 --> 1:23:47.400 people and say the same thing today and say well 1:23:47.400 --> 1:23:50.000 I'm running as an independent, I still have them, I 1:23:50.040 --> 1:23:53.160 still have their attention. So if we can tie this 1:23:53.360 --> 1:23:57.040 all back to why is healthcare so expensive. Well, hey, 1:23:57.040 --> 1:23:59.640 look at the system. Let's look at who gives money to. 1:23:59.680 --> 1:24:02.600 Who are they going to you know, stop that gravy train. No, 1:24:03.080 --> 1:24:06.599 So if we can tie it back directly to why 1:24:06.720 --> 1:24:07.839 is this so expensive? 1:24:07.880 --> 1:24:08.439 Why is that? 1:24:08.760 --> 1:24:09.800 What is the problem here? 1:24:10.240 --> 1:24:22.760 Everybody implicitly knows that already. 1:24:23.000 --> 1:24:26.120 You know, my first year professionally covering politics was nineteen 1:24:26.160 --> 1:24:29.920 ninety two, and that's the rise of Ross Perot. And 1:24:30.000 --> 1:24:33.720 I bring him up because Ross Parot that we used 1:24:33.720 --> 1:24:36.720 to describe it as a crescent moon, and that he 1:24:36.880 --> 1:24:39.840 over performed in states that kind of formed a crescent moon. 1:24:39.920 --> 1:24:41.920 It was sort of Texas that was like the bottom 1:24:41.960 --> 1:24:46.479 of the crescent, and the right up through Minnesota right 1:24:46.520 --> 1:24:48.160 to the Great Lakes was sort of the top of 1:24:48.200 --> 1:24:50.400 the crescent, and it went all along and he was 1:24:50.479 --> 1:24:54.360 over nineteen percent basically in all of those states. He 1:24:54.400 --> 1:24:58.320 did really pour in the Deep South, did okay? In 1:24:58.360 --> 1:25:02.920 New England, Atlantic not so much. But really, look was 1:25:02.960 --> 1:25:05.839 in the mid twenties and both Idaho and South Dakota. 1:25:06.560 --> 1:25:09.200 I just double checked that twenty seven percent in Idaho 1:25:09.240 --> 1:25:12.000 and ninety two to twenty six percent in South Dakota. 1:25:12.640 --> 1:25:15.599 Do you think those voters still exist. Todd, I'll start 1:25:15.640 --> 1:25:22.000 with you, because that is five years ago. 1:25:22.760 --> 1:25:27.160 Yeah, but I think it's I do think they do, 1:25:27.320 --> 1:25:29.760 because again going back to the numbers that I was 1:25:29.800 --> 1:25:32.320 just talking about, right, seventy percent on affiliate with the 1:25:32.360 --> 1:25:35.120 party in twenty twelve, So that's not that long ago. 1:25:35.240 --> 1:25:37.360 Oh way, par O came within one point of being 1:25:37.360 --> 1:25:40.679 in second place in the state above above Bill Clinton 1:25:40.720 --> 1:25:41.080 at the time. 1:25:41.160 --> 1:25:41.599 Yeah. 1:25:41.720 --> 1:25:45.640 Yeah, and uh and sixty five percent of Idahoa is 1:25:45.720 --> 1:25:48.480 just you know this survey this year identifying as independent 1:25:48.720 --> 1:25:52.479 or Leana Inde Pennant. So so the values are there, 1:25:52.520 --> 1:25:55.640 and you know, I think a lot like you know, 1:25:56.000 --> 1:25:58.160 with Brian and our part of the world here. 1:25:58.520 --> 1:25:59.840 I mean, you don't you. 1:26:00.360 --> 1:26:04.759 Live in these states because you want to define yourself. 1:26:04.800 --> 1:26:08.800 Nobody's the boss of you, and those values are I 1:26:08.840 --> 1:26:11.439 think those values are timeless. That's that's why folks come here. 1:26:13.880 --> 1:26:19.400 Brian, the independent mantra, what is a way how do 1:26:19.479 --> 1:26:22.400 you make the case that you're going to at times 1:26:23.000 --> 1:26:26.360 represent you know, the Republican lean of the state and 1:26:26.439 --> 1:26:30.640 at times the independent lean of the state. How do 1:26:30.680 --> 1:26:31.400 you divvy that up? 1:26:31.800 --> 1:26:36.479 Okay, well, obviously one of the things that I've told 1:26:36.479 --> 1:26:38.559 people is I'm running as independent because I like to 1:26:38.560 --> 1:26:43.280 think for myself, which has always been true as a 1:26:43.280 --> 1:26:46.280 lifelong registered independent. The best question I think is how 1:26:46.280 --> 1:26:47.800 do I differ from both parties? How am I going 1:26:47.840 --> 1:26:50.640 to represent both parties? So if we take immigration, that 1:26:50.720 --> 1:26:54.240 has been I would say, probably the hottest issue electoral issue, 1:26:54.280 --> 1:26:56.680 at least in twenty four and for years before that 1:26:56.680 --> 1:26:58.840 as well. It's one of the big ones. So the 1:26:58.920 --> 1:27:03.120 last comprehensive immigration reform was the same year that Maverick 1:27:03.120 --> 1:27:05.080 and Goose first felt the need for speed. Do you 1:27:05.080 --> 1:27:07.720 know what year that wasn't? Yes, we're going back to 1:27:08.240 --> 1:27:09.599 eighty seven, eighty eight. 1:27:09.720 --> 1:27:12.799 Eighty six, eighty six, Yeah, year I get my driver's license. 1:27:13.920 --> 1:27:18.280 Yeah, So eighty six was the last big one, and 1:27:18.400 --> 1:27:21.440 you know top Don was on the screens today. Pragmatic 1:27:21.479 --> 1:27:25.200 reform requires two parts, the first one being strong border 1:27:25.240 --> 1:27:29.519 security and the second one being overhaul of the legal 1:27:29.520 --> 1:27:32.759 immigration system. I believe to allow more people, more immigrants 1:27:32.760 --> 1:27:35.200 in and to streamline the path to citizenship to make 1:27:35.240 --> 1:27:37.680 it easier and you know, something that can be accomplished 1:27:37.680 --> 1:27:40.760 with the reasonab amount of time. Now, I support both 1:27:40.800 --> 1:27:44.040 of those components, which is not the position of either 1:27:44.080 --> 1:27:47.919 the Democratic or the Republican Party for different reasons. Republicans 1:27:47.920 --> 1:27:50.479 obviously support sealing the border, that's what they're they're trying 1:27:50.520 --> 1:27:54.120 to do now, and they impose apparently improving the legal 1:27:54.120 --> 1:27:58.919 immigration process, while Democrats support improving the legal immigration process, 1:27:58.960 --> 1:28:01.840 but they balk at stronger border security. So if we 1:28:01.880 --> 1:28:06.040 look back, President Biden's first bill when he took office 1:28:06.400 --> 1:28:09.360 was immigration reform, and the Democrats controlled both the Senate 1:28:09.400 --> 1:28:12.559 and the House. Yet you heard crickets for the first 1:28:12.560 --> 1:28:16.799 two years because the Democrats couldn't agree on border security 1:28:17.520 --> 1:28:20.400 until they finally had to late, you know, running up 1:28:20.439 --> 1:28:23.200 to the election. Without a united position, why are they 1:28:23.200 --> 1:28:25.760 going to go talk to the Republicans about, like, Hey, 1:28:25.760 --> 1:28:27.280 here's what we're working on. Do you want to sign 1:28:27.360 --> 1:28:31.040 on board to this? So they let it go. So 1:28:31.120 --> 1:28:33.880 that would be one of the ways. I'm a pragmatic person. 1:28:34.600 --> 1:28:36.839 I look at things. I'm trained this way as attorney, 1:28:36.880 --> 1:28:39.040 I'm trained this way as an Air Force officer. You 1:28:39.120 --> 1:28:41.000 look at things and say, hey, that didn't go the 1:28:41.120 --> 1:28:43.400 way we wanted or we're having this outcome, how can 1:28:43.439 --> 1:28:46.639 we tweak things to make it work properly? And if 1:28:46.680 --> 1:28:49.400 there's a Republican plan that does that, I'm on board. 1:28:49.640 --> 1:28:51.559 If there's a democratic plan that I think does it, 1:28:52.479 --> 1:28:56.040 I'm on board. So it's an issue by issue thing 1:28:56.320 --> 1:28:58.680 of what is going to work. And I'm going to 1:28:58.760 --> 1:29:01.960 stay right now after forty years, I believe the trickle 1:29:02.000 --> 1:29:05.639 down economics horse and sparrow economics, if you will, doesn't work. 1:29:06.080 --> 1:29:09.000 So despite our efforts to keep cutting our taxes for 1:29:09.080 --> 1:29:12.320 the billionaires and the large corporations to make us wealthy 1:29:12.360 --> 1:29:14.720 and to pay down the debt, that's not working. So 1:29:14.800 --> 1:29:16.759 things need to change. 1:29:18.080 --> 1:29:21.840 Tom. One of the things that it's already been disappointing 1:29:21.840 --> 1:29:25.559 in the wake of the Charlie kirk and assassination and 1:29:25.640 --> 1:29:31.639 the assassination of the Minnesota lawmakers, is that the only 1:29:31.680 --> 1:29:34.240 complaints you here in Capitol Hill or what about security 1:29:34.280 --> 1:29:39.320 for me? Right, rather than hey, maybe we ought to 1:29:39.360 --> 1:29:44.280 do a special committee here of some of our best 1:29:44.320 --> 1:29:46.640 and brightest minds and figure out how can we de 1:29:46.840 --> 1:29:53.640 escalate and actually, you know, build a better discourse. That 1:29:53.920 --> 1:29:55.599 the two parties don't know how to work with each 1:29:55.600 --> 1:30:00.479 other anymore in a horrendous way. And I think which 1:30:00.600 --> 1:30:05.360 I guess it's yeah, yeah, And I think Chuck it's 1:30:05.439 --> 1:30:06.840 it's it's baked in them system. 1:30:06.880 --> 1:30:08.400 That's part of the incentive, right. 1:30:08.560 --> 1:30:10.599 You you make more money when. 1:30:10.400 --> 1:30:14.880 You say outrageous things on the floor, outrageous things in committee, 1:30:15.000 --> 1:30:17.680 and you feed that outrage economy, and that feeds the 1:30:18.000 --> 1:30:20.920 donor cycle. You know, when I when I'm I got 1:30:20.920 --> 1:30:24.160 a pointed two sessions ago by by Governor little Uh 1:30:24.479 --> 1:30:26.080 and I you know, I showed up halfway through the 1:30:26.080 --> 1:30:29.320 session and I talked to my Republican colleagues and they're like, hey, 1:30:29.320 --> 1:30:31.760 don't even bother. I'm sorry, my Democratic College, don't even 1:30:31.760 --> 1:30:34.800 bother talking to that that kind of third of the room. 1:30:35.160 --> 1:30:36.800 You know, you're not going to get anywhere with them. 1:30:36.840 --> 1:30:37.800 They're they're far riders. 1:30:37.880 --> 1:30:39.479 I'm like, all right, well you've been here six years. 1:30:39.520 --> 1:30:41.160 I've been here six days. Fine. 1:30:41.960 --> 1:30:45.360 But last session, after I won my race, I made 1:30:45.400 --> 1:30:48.080 a point of just connecting with every single member of 1:30:48.120 --> 1:30:52.720 the chamber, finding those points of commonality, Chuck, I was 1:30:52.880 --> 1:30:57.680 so much more effective in that building by having those relationships, 1:30:57.680 --> 1:31:00.160 and you never knew where I mean, listen, I I 1:31:00.160 --> 1:31:04.000 would argue like hell with somebody about marriage equality, and 1:31:04.080 --> 1:31:07.000 you know, there was this far right effort overturn you know, 1:31:07.120 --> 1:31:10.240 a letter passed by the legislature calling for us to 1:31:10.280 --> 1:31:13.280 overturn our burgfelt and I fought that thing tooth and nail. 1:31:13.360 --> 1:31:16.720 And the person who was a sponsor of that, guess what, 1:31:17.040 --> 1:31:19.920 she dislikes monopoly power as much as I do, and 1:31:20.000 --> 1:31:23.719 so she co sponsored and some others did my build 1:31:23.840 --> 1:31:28.000 up prohibit algorithm price fixing. So and I caught a 1:31:28.080 --> 1:31:32.280 lot of crap from from Democrats in the state for 1:31:32.600 --> 1:31:36.839 even you know, for working with this woman. But like, guys, 1:31:37.080 --> 1:31:40.639 guess what, These purity tests are the reason why you're 1:31:40.640 --> 1:31:44.480 irrelevant in the state. Right, find these points of commonality. 1:31:44.520 --> 1:31:46.960 You don't have to agree on one hundred percent. But 1:31:47.439 --> 1:31:50.679 you know, I'm trying to save Idaho renters who are 1:31:50.720 --> 1:31:53.320 being taken advantage of. And there are other people that 1:31:53.439 --> 1:31:53.960 want to work. 1:31:53.840 --> 1:31:54.280 With me on that. 1:31:54.360 --> 1:31:57.840 I'll do that all day long. And we protected absentee voting, 1:31:57.880 --> 1:32:02.240 We protected citizen initiatives, we killed a bad bill to put, 1:32:02.360 --> 1:32:04.280 you know, make it easier to carry guns and schools. 1:32:04.600 --> 1:32:07.479 I did all of these things on a bipartisan basis. 1:32:08.439 --> 1:32:10.719 And that's what you got to bring you the chamber, 1:32:10.760 --> 1:32:13.599 and it's and I you know, I'll echo Brian here, 1:32:13.720 --> 1:32:17.320 it's these financial incentives that are just sending the chamber 1:32:17.360 --> 1:32:19.639 in the wrong direction, and we got to break those 1:32:19.680 --> 1:32:22.320 financial incentives. I think that's the that's the root issue. 1:32:22.479 --> 1:32:23.960 All right, let me get you guys out of here 1:32:24.000 --> 1:32:26.040 on sort of it's a little bit of a cheap stunt, 1:32:26.080 --> 1:32:29.520 but it's a it does I think. I think listeners 1:32:29.880 --> 1:32:31.800 like these things because it does help them paint a 1:32:31.800 --> 1:32:34.240 picture of you guys. So, Brian, I'll start with you. 1:32:34.240 --> 1:32:36.519 Give me give me two senators you look forward to 1:32:36.560 --> 1:32:41.719 working with if you get elected, and then give me Yeah, 1:32:41.800 --> 1:32:43.439 just let me start there, and then I got one 1:32:43.479 --> 1:32:44.960 more for both of you too, But go ahead, give 1:32:45.000 --> 1:32:46.800 me give me a couple of senators you're looking forward 1:32:46.840 --> 1:32:48.000 to working with if you get there. 1:32:48.520 --> 1:32:53.479 Uh, Bernie Sanders comes to mind immediately, and I would 1:32:53.520 --> 1:32:57.040 have said John Fetterman when he was first elected, but 1:32:57.120 --> 1:32:58.040 I would not say him. 1:32:58.040 --> 1:33:05.920 Now. Let's see, all right, you're stopped. 1:33:06.840 --> 1:33:08.800 I'm stuck because I'm gonna have to say Republican to 1:33:08.800 --> 1:33:13.080 be balanced here, or I could just cheap out and 1:33:13.080 --> 1:33:14.160 go angus king. 1:33:15.840 --> 1:33:19.000 There here. I hear you, all right, Todd, same question. 1:33:19.040 --> 1:33:22.320 You got what I'll do, Brian I'll make him answer 1:33:22.360 --> 1:33:24.040 the other question I have for you first, so that 1:33:24.080 --> 1:33:26.519 way you get you get a second. So, Todd, what's 1:33:26.560 --> 1:33:27.920 your give me your two senators. 1:33:27.560 --> 1:33:29.920 That you're looking for, Elizabeth Warren and Josh Holly. 1:33:30.360 --> 1:33:32.519 Okay, all right, you dropped the Holly name, so I 1:33:32.520 --> 1:33:35.559 figured figure to get there. Look, Holly and Shats are 1:33:35.560 --> 1:33:39.839 working together on quite a few of the kids first issues. 1:33:39.880 --> 1:33:43.080 When it comes to tech algorithms, you know, there's there's 1:33:43.080 --> 1:33:45.040 no doubt. All right, So you get to answer this 1:33:45.080 --> 1:33:47.600 next question, Tod, give me your favorite Democratic president and 1:33:47.600 --> 1:33:48.920 your favorite Republican president. 1:33:50.400 --> 1:33:58.759 Favorite Republican President Eisenhower, m favorite Democratic President FDR. 1:33:59.439 --> 1:34:03.280 All right, uh, mister Banks, same question to you. 1:34:03.640 --> 1:34:07.040 I'm gonna favor yeah, the power for sure. 1:34:07.400 --> 1:34:07.839 Yeah. 1:34:07.880 --> 1:34:13.000 And I'm torn between the Roosevelts, Teddy Roosevelt and FDR. 1:34:15.439 --> 1:34:18.519 I'm going to go with tr for a personal reason 1:34:18.520 --> 1:34:22.080 that I'll debut here, and just because you know, he's 1:34:22.080 --> 1:34:24.680 so connected to this area of South Dakota and what 1:34:24.760 --> 1:34:25.639 he stands for with. 1:34:25.760 --> 1:34:28.479 This North Dakota wanting his library there, fighting gets a 1:34:28.520 --> 1:34:31.680 battle between the Dakotas. Who gets tr right, you know? 1:34:33.080 --> 1:34:33.960 But but on a. 1:34:33.880 --> 1:34:37.799 Fun fact, I learned last year that TR is a distant, 1:34:37.920 --> 1:34:40.720 distant cousin on my mother's side, So that's just a 1:34:40.760 --> 1:34:41.360 cool thing. 1:34:41.240 --> 1:34:44.519 To So you're related to TR but not FDR. Yeah, 1:34:44.640 --> 1:34:48.120 Robert Lee different brands of the Eleanor side, Right, Eleanor 1:34:48.280 --> 1:34:49.639 was closer to TR than Yeah. 1:34:49.520 --> 1:34:50.240 Yes, exactly. 1:34:50.400 --> 1:34:54.320 So, uh, that's what the genealogy things that you're in 1:34:54.360 --> 1:34:56.320 go like, hey, you might be related to these individuals. 1:34:56.640 --> 1:34:58.559 And they said you might lose FDR. And then I 1:34:58.560 --> 1:35:00.760 looked I was like, no, it's it's Roosevelt. Then that 1:35:00.800 --> 1:35:03.599 occurred to me, Well, if I'm alledged to Eleanor Roosevelt, 1:35:03.600 --> 1:35:04.080 I'm ready. 1:35:04.840 --> 1:35:05.880 So yeah, that's the wind. 1:35:06.479 --> 1:35:09.599 Well, you guys should also know this. Later this week 1:35:10.200 --> 1:35:15.200 is the anniversary of a farewell address by our truly 1:35:15.400 --> 1:35:20.040 only independent president we've ever had, and it's George Washington, 1:35:20.680 --> 1:35:26.479 who absolutely eviscerates partisan politics in his farewell address. And 1:35:26.560 --> 1:35:29.840 I will say, I'm I'm not surprised you both picked Eisenhower. 1:35:30.240 --> 1:35:33.160 I look at Eisenhower. He's the closest thing we've ever 1:35:33.320 --> 1:35:38.760 had to an independent being elected president, especially since both 1:35:38.800 --> 1:35:42.480 parties were recruiting him. And to me, Washington and Eisenhower 1:35:42.600 --> 1:35:45.080 sort of the are the are the North Stars for 1:35:45.200 --> 1:35:49.639 me in that sense too, And it's because when you've 1:35:49.680 --> 1:35:53.799 had to lead Americans in battle, then you see everybody 1:35:53.800 --> 1:35:56.479 as an American before you see him as a as 1:35:56.520 --> 1:36:02.519 a Republican or a Democrat. Anyway, Well, you guys go ahead. 1:36:02.640 --> 1:36:04.960 Sorry, sorry, Chuck, I was just gonna say one comedy, 1:36:05.040 --> 1:36:08.960 you know again, the with the four of us with Brian, Tye, Dan, 1:36:09.040 --> 1:36:11.760 and me. I mean, we we all served, right, we 1:36:11.800 --> 1:36:14.240 were all probably eighteen or nineteen when we when we 1:36:14.280 --> 1:36:14.800 took the oath. 1:36:14.920 --> 1:36:16.760 You guys are all veterans, right, you guys have all 1:36:16.800 --> 1:36:19.160 were as that doesn't you know what I mean that 1:36:20.040 --> 1:36:22.360 somebody coming from the military being an independent makes a 1:36:22.400 --> 1:36:24.040 lot more sense to me than being a partisan. 1:36:24.640 --> 1:36:28.680 Yeah, And I think for me, what I when we 1:36:28.760 --> 1:36:31.400 get on the phone together, Uh, it's great. I mean, 1:36:31.520 --> 1:36:34.760 I we're completing each other's sentences in terms of why 1:36:34.840 --> 1:36:37.559 we're doing this and what we're trying to accomplish. Although 1:36:37.600 --> 1:36:41.440 we've got totally different backgrounds, right. You know, Brian's an attorney. 1:36:41.600 --> 1:36:43.479 He taught at the Air Force Academy. You know, I 1:36:43.479 --> 1:36:45.280 spent twenty years on a tech sector and I teach 1:36:45.320 --> 1:36:51.040 public policy now. But uh, it's it's those core values 1:36:51.200 --> 1:36:55.800 right that that I think we're all driving towards. And 1:36:55.880 --> 1:36:57.920 you know, I was a tank commander, right, There's four 1:36:57.920 --> 1:37:00.400 guys inside of a tank and if we can't along, 1:37:00.479 --> 1:37:03.120 we're dead, right. I mean, it's very simple. 1:37:04.240 --> 1:37:08.559 Get me fighting over who's right about about you know, 1:37:08.880 --> 1:37:12.120 gun ownership when you're in the middle of a battle exactly. 1:37:12.600 --> 1:37:14.760 I mean, like we all learned in the military, You've 1:37:14.760 --> 1:37:17.800 got a random bunch of people all thrown together, uh, 1:37:17.840 --> 1:37:19.960 and you got a mission to do, and you just 1:37:20.160 --> 1:37:22.479 you figure out how to do it. And those are 1:37:22.520 --> 1:37:24.519 the values I think we're trying to bring bring back 1:37:24.560 --> 1:37:27.320 to this bring back to Congress. 1:37:28.160 --> 1:37:30.719 Brian, are you a Jack Rabbits fan South Dakota side. 1:37:30.680 --> 1:37:33.439 I love Tucker Kraba Packer fans. So Tucker Craft man, 1:37:34.040 --> 1:37:36.479 we just love this guy. We love this guy. 1:37:36.760 --> 1:37:39.080 I can't really comment on that because that would not 1:37:39.080 --> 1:37:41.520 be good for me. I'll just say that I originally 1:37:41.680 --> 1:37:44.000 I'm from Iowa originally, so I went to Iowa State 1:37:44.040 --> 1:37:47.200 in Iowa, Ah and then on those things. 1:37:47.320 --> 1:37:50.479 No you can't, I got you there and Todd but 1:37:50.640 --> 1:37:54.200 Boise State, man, you know, how did the University of 1:37:54.240 --> 1:37:58.360 Idaho allow Boise State to become the power in football 1:37:58.400 --> 1:37:58.920 in that state. 1:38:00.960 --> 1:38:03.280 This is the this is the difference between North Idaho 1:38:03.360 --> 1:38:07.600 and Sunnadaho. But oh, interesting, it's too bad genty. We 1:38:07.640 --> 1:38:10.719 don't have genty anymore. And boiss day and he was incredible, buddy. 1:38:10.880 --> 1:38:12.439 It looks like he's going to have a good career 1:38:12.439 --> 1:38:13.040 with the Raiders. 1:38:13.400 --> 1:38:16.040 It's a he's he is fun to watch. That is 1:38:16.120 --> 1:38:19.840 old school football. Look, Brian and Todd, I I hope 1:38:19.880 --> 1:38:21.479 to talk to you guys again. I mean, look, there's 1:38:21.479 --> 1:38:26.920 not you know, we need to disrupt the duopoly is 1:38:26.960 --> 1:38:29.360 what got us to this place. I am you know, Look, 1:38:29.360 --> 1:38:32.679 we've got a lot of problems. The duopoly is pretty 1:38:32.720 --> 1:38:35.680 much number I think the tech companies are number one 1:38:35.680 --> 1:38:37.639 and the duopoly is number two. But if you want 1:38:37.680 --> 1:38:40.760 to argue the other way, I wouldn't dissuade you. So 1:38:41.200 --> 1:38:45.840 good luck out there. I'll be watching, paying attention, and 1:38:45.880 --> 1:38:48.760 hopefully more more independent voices show up as well. So 1:38:48.840 --> 1:38:50.040 thank you, guys, would be good. 1:38:50.439 --> 1:38:51.839 Thank you. I appreciate it. 1:39:05.120 --> 1:39:07.639 All right. I hope you enjoyed that interview with those 1:39:07.640 --> 1:39:10.120 two independent candidates. So and in fact, my top five 1:39:10.160 --> 1:39:14.240 lists this week is on independence, and it's my top 1:39:14.280 --> 1:39:19.400 five list of states most likely to elect an independent 1:39:19.439 --> 1:39:20.559 to the Senate to. 1:39:22.520 --> 1:39:25.800 Top five top jest top. 1:39:27.840 --> 1:39:31.320 Some of it is going to be based on history, 1:39:31.439 --> 1:39:33.720 some of it is going to be based on, you know, 1:39:34.560 --> 1:39:38.479 the electorate and just sort of how you know, do 1:39:38.520 --> 1:39:41.680 you have an electorate that thinks that is very partisan, 1:39:42.439 --> 1:39:44.519 Like you know, you take state of North Carolina, which 1:39:44.560 --> 1:39:48.080 is a very evenly divided state, but it's it's sort 1:39:48.120 --> 1:39:52.519 of divided by polls. It's a polarized electorate. It is 1:39:52.600 --> 1:39:56.559 basically forty five or forty five d in a very 1:39:56.560 --> 1:39:59.960 small size of independence versus a place like a lack 1:40:00.000 --> 1:40:03.679 Asca which is sort of filled with sort of this 1:40:03.800 --> 1:40:07.160 sort of independent you know, little left, little right, little libertarian, 1:40:07.160 --> 1:40:10.960 little of this. And it's just a more fluid electorate 1:40:11.520 --> 1:40:13.920 as it's not as partisan, it's not as hardcore. So 1:40:14.439 --> 1:40:17.519 my top five list of states most likely they elect 1:40:17.560 --> 1:40:19.479 an independent to the Senate, well, obviously I got to 1:40:19.520 --> 1:40:25.400 start with two states that have done it. I don't 1:40:25.439 --> 1:40:30.799 count Bernie Sanders in this one, I know, although Vermont 1:40:30.840 --> 1:40:34.560 has arguably had two independent one that was independent that 1:40:34.760 --> 1:40:37.200 caucused with Republicans. Still he switched parties and caucus with 1:40:37.240 --> 1:40:41.160 Democrats and Jim Jeffords and then you had Bernie. But 1:40:41.240 --> 1:40:43.160 in some ways I don't put Vermont there anymore. I 1:40:43.200 --> 1:40:45.120 think it's decidedly I think it's going to be very 1:40:45.160 --> 1:40:49.759 difficult for somebody. You can get elected as an independent 1:40:49.800 --> 1:40:51.960 if you're further to the left of the Democratic Party, 1:40:52.000 --> 1:40:54.040 but I don't know if you can do that, you know, 1:40:54.080 --> 1:40:56.120 from the other way. So look, I think you have 1:40:56.160 --> 1:40:58.120 to put Alaska in Maine is one and two because 1:40:58.120 --> 1:41:05.400 they've done it, and there's their electorates are fluid enough 1:41:06.200 --> 1:41:11.479 that it's supportive. They've elected independence for governor, right, and 1:41:11.560 --> 1:41:13.640 I think that that is, you know, these are the 1:41:13.680 --> 1:41:17.879 states that are most ripe for non major party candidates 1:41:17.880 --> 1:41:21.599 to have some success. Alaska and Maine obviously are too. 1:41:21.720 --> 1:41:24.000 The next state on my list, number three is Minnesota, 1:41:25.760 --> 1:41:27.479 And in fact, you could argue now that if you're 1:41:27.520 --> 1:41:29.960 right of center in Minnesota and this is going to 1:41:30.000 --> 1:41:32.840 actually get I got some interesting feedback about my battleground 1:41:32.880 --> 1:41:35.559 state list and a little bit of pushback of having 1:41:36.080 --> 1:41:40.400 Minnesota ranked higher than New Hampshire of states on the 1:41:40.439 --> 1:41:42.920 Republican side most likely to make it into the battleground 1:41:43.000 --> 1:41:46.240 right blue states that Republicans might be able to contest. 1:41:47.000 --> 1:41:50.280 And the argument is that while Minnesota is always very close, 1:41:50.400 --> 1:41:54.160 Republicans never seem to be able to, you know, to 1:41:54.840 --> 1:41:58.599 crack the code. That in twenty fourteen, for instance, Al 1:41:58.640 --> 1:42:01.080 Frankin's reelection year, he won ten points and that was 1:42:01.120 --> 1:42:04.679 a great Republican year. So I Republicans couldn't make Franklin 1:42:04.840 --> 1:42:09.920 sweat in twenty fourteen. Then the argument goes that this 1:42:10.000 --> 1:42:11.840 is a this is a much harder state. You know 1:42:11.880 --> 1:42:15.280 that there's a hard ceiling on the Republicans, and I 1:42:15.439 --> 1:42:18.719 you know, it's an old hotline buddy that was pushing 1:42:18.760 --> 1:42:21.880 back on me. And I think my buddy Quinn is right. Quinn, 1:42:21.920 --> 1:42:23.879 I'm throwing I'm giving I'm throwing you at this bone. 1:42:24.000 --> 1:42:27.640 I do agree New Hampshire probably it should be New 1:42:27.640 --> 1:42:30.479 Hampshire over Minnesota. I still think there's an opportunity there 1:42:30.479 --> 1:42:32.760 in Minnesota. But I think you're right. I think the 1:42:32.800 --> 1:42:35.360 track record of New Hampshire recently they just elected a 1:42:35.360 --> 1:42:38.920 Republican governor. It's been a long time since Minnesota's elected 1:42:38.960 --> 1:42:42.120 a statewide Republican has been at least over a decade. 1:42:44.600 --> 1:42:46.439 I think, I think you make a compelling case at 1:42:46.439 --> 1:42:49.840 New Hampshire should be ranked higher than Minnesota. So Alaska one, 1:42:50.040 --> 1:42:53.200 Main two, Minnesota three, and my next two are sun 1:42:53.240 --> 1:42:59.759 Belt states. Arizona, who arguably had a couple of independent 1:43:00.040 --> 1:43:02.520 acting senators even though they didn't get elected as independents, 1:43:02.520 --> 1:43:06.479 and John McCain and Kirsten Cinema. And there's something about 1:43:06.479 --> 1:43:09.160 it's electorate, right, there's a there's a there's a it's 1:43:09.200 --> 1:43:14.160 a state that has a huge independent voter registration. And 1:43:14.200 --> 1:43:18.719 when you're a transient state, right that where a majority 1:43:18.760 --> 1:43:22.599 of the voters weren't born in that state, that means 1:43:22.640 --> 1:43:26.599 you don't have as strong a ties on partisanship as much. 1:43:26.920 --> 1:43:29.080 And I think, and so we should give away what 1:43:29.120 --> 1:43:32.679 my number five state is of a chance electing independent. 1:43:32.720 --> 1:43:36.240 That's Florida. Florida also is a huge growing no party 1:43:36.680 --> 1:43:42.679 UH registration vote, and I think the opportunity and ballot 1:43:42.680 --> 1:43:46.960 access isn't very difficult. Ditto in Arizona. That also matters here, right, 1:43:47.000 --> 1:43:50.000 how difficult is ballot access to get on there? You know, 1:43:50.080 --> 1:43:54.599 Texas is extraordinarily hard to run as an independent, And 1:43:54.760 --> 1:43:59.000 even though you in theory. Texas is the type of 1:43:59.000 --> 1:44:01.880 electorate that maybe could be supportive of it. I'm skeptical 1:44:01.920 --> 1:44:05.240 of it. So my top five this week, top five 1:44:05.280 --> 1:44:09.000 states most likely with electorates it would be open to 1:44:09.040 --> 1:44:12.519 electing an independent. And you could actually picture it happening. 1:44:13.040 --> 1:44:15.920 Two places they've already happened Alaska in Maine right with 1:44:16.000 --> 1:44:21.360 Lisa Murkowski and and Angus King both did get elected 1:44:21.400 --> 1:44:23.320 as independents. Now they caut us with one side or 1:44:23.360 --> 1:44:26.519 the other, but they're I think, and they both have 1:44:26.680 --> 1:44:31.320 elected independent governors, So I think there is a tradition there. Minnesota, right, 1:44:31.560 --> 1:44:35.000 they've they've had some you know, this is a party 1:44:35.000 --> 1:44:38.080 that even the Democratic Party is not named. It's the 1:44:38.080 --> 1:44:40.760 Democratic Farm Labor Party. It was a coalition party. There 1:44:40.840 --> 1:44:42.600 used to be the Farm Labor and then the Democrats 1:44:42.600 --> 1:44:44.960 and they merged. And in fact that back in the 1:44:45.040 --> 1:44:47.360 day the Minnesota Republican Party was referred to as the 1:44:47.360 --> 1:44:51.080 Independent Republican Party. There was almost an over emphasis on 1:44:51.120 --> 1:44:56.680 the word independent and less so unrepublican. So Minnesota number three, 1:44:56.840 --> 1:45:02.200 number four, Arizona, and number five Florida. Other states that 1:45:02.320 --> 1:45:06.639 I contemplated Nebraska, I do think the fact that they 1:45:06.640 --> 1:45:10.360 have a unit cameral legislature where you do not run 1:45:10.479 --> 1:45:14.880 or hold office by party. Does create an electorate that 1:45:15.000 --> 1:45:18.120 is comfortable with candidates for office that don't associate with 1:45:18.160 --> 1:45:21.480 a major party. The fact that their unit camera legislature 1:45:21.479 --> 1:45:23.479 works that way, I think does. I think it does 1:45:23.600 --> 1:45:28.840 help explain why Osborne, Dan Osborne, who's running again, has 1:45:29.240 --> 1:45:33.960 gotten into the forties. On that front, Kansas, I think 1:45:34.040 --> 1:45:37.400 there's something there. I think the Democratic brand is probably 1:45:37.400 --> 1:45:40.280 not quite strong enough to elect a senator, but an 1:45:40.280 --> 1:45:44.280 independent that leaned to the left but had a few 1:45:44.360 --> 1:45:47.639 things that were appealing to right leaning independence, you could 1:45:47.640 --> 1:45:51.880 see it. I put Idaho, South Dakota down here as well, 1:45:51.920 --> 1:45:54.719 because we're going to find out, right, I do think 1:45:55.360 --> 1:45:59.800 you're going to have a little better in general running 1:45:59.800 --> 1:46:02.360 again against the two major parties, as there's usually a 1:46:02.400 --> 1:46:05.439 bit more of an appetite for it out west than 1:46:05.520 --> 1:46:10.840 there is out east here, particularly in some of the 1:46:11.040 --> 1:46:13.200 in some of the states that have been around a 1:46:13.200 --> 1:46:17.400 while that have of you know that have that have 1:46:17.479 --> 1:46:24.959 certainly have very very very strong state and local political parties. 1:46:25.280 --> 1:46:27.320 All Right, so there's my top five lists. With that, 1:46:27.479 --> 1:46:28.559 Let's do a few questions. 1:46:28.720 --> 1:46:29.760 Ask Chuck. 1:46:34.680 --> 1:46:37.200 All right. First question comes from Greg al and he writes, 1:46:37.200 --> 1:46:38.840 thanks for the show. I want to ask about your 1:46:38.840 --> 1:46:41.599 call for a politician to run as a uniter. It's 1:46:41.600 --> 1:46:43.760 what the country needs, but is it possible as a 1:46:43.800 --> 1:46:46.280 moderate who has voted for both parties less presidential Canada. 1:46:46.280 --> 1:46:49.280 I recall running as a uniter is President Obama, who 1:46:49.360 --> 1:46:52.080 came to prominence with his unifying One America speech back 1:46:52.120 --> 1:46:54.599 in two thousand and four. However, we call family members 1:46:54.640 --> 1:46:57.200 who perceived Obama as a divisive radical who hated capitalists 1:46:57.200 --> 1:46:59.760 and Americans. In the Obama years, I also noticed that 1:47:00.080 --> 1:47:03.280 compromise and unity were tough promises to deliver on. Even 1:47:03.320 --> 1:47:06.120 if a politician followed through with concessions, the opposing party 1:47:06.120 --> 1:47:09.400 could force failure by refusing to cooperate, even when offered 1:47:09.400 --> 1:47:15.200 policies they previously supported. I hope you can share some optimism. Well, look, 1:47:15.200 --> 1:47:18.000 I mean this is why I don't think either either party. 1:47:18.040 --> 1:47:20.200 I think this has to this almost has to be 1:47:20.680 --> 1:47:23.880 a pirate type of situation where you just sort of 1:47:24.040 --> 1:47:27.519 where you have an independent that calls time out. You know, 1:47:27.600 --> 1:47:30.080 you guys have lost your privileges to lead. You need 1:47:30.120 --> 1:47:33.200 to learn how to lead it's sort of it was 1:47:33.280 --> 1:47:35.720 the It was how Jesse Ventura won his election in 1:47:35.800 --> 1:47:39.920 ninety eight. He basically turned the two parties into tweetled 1:47:39.920 --> 1:47:44.759 the and tweedled dumb, and it gained quick traction. It 1:47:44.439 --> 1:47:47.200 was it was actually a short campaign. He was polling 1:47:47.240 --> 1:47:49.560 in the high single digits, low double digits for the 1:47:49.640 --> 1:47:54.120 longest time they have a debate. He's an outsized charismatic figure. 1:47:54.760 --> 1:47:57.519 The two nominees, I think it was I think, if 1:47:57.880 --> 1:48:00.679 memory serves, it was Norm Coleman future you a Senator 1:48:01.120 --> 1:48:07.960 and Skip Humphrey, the son of Hubert Humphrey, and they 1:48:08.120 --> 1:48:12.280 just they came across a stale compared to the charismatic 1:48:12.280 --> 1:48:17.559 ex wrestler right and former actor you know who's uttered 1:48:17.600 --> 1:48:19.800 one of my favorite movie lines of all time, I 1:48:19.880 --> 1:48:24.519 don't got time to bleed from the first Predator, which 1:48:24.560 --> 1:48:27.519 I think he used in his campaign ads. I think 1:48:27.520 --> 1:48:30.519 it was the title of his memoir, of his political memoir. 1:48:31.000 --> 1:48:34.320 But the point is is that he didn't run as 1:48:34.360 --> 1:48:36.360 saying this is you know. Yes, it was sort of 1:48:36.400 --> 1:48:39.519 with the Pero Reform Party at the time, but in 1:48:39.560 --> 1:48:42.160 some ways it was, Hey, I want to send a 1:48:42.200 --> 1:48:46.920 message these two parties and just sober up. And I 1:48:46.960 --> 1:48:50.679 think what you outline here, the inability for one party 1:48:50.720 --> 1:48:53.439 to concede anything to the other party right now, it's 1:48:53.520 --> 1:48:55.320 not going to happen. If you want to know how 1:48:55.439 --> 1:48:59.280 nineteen nineties by partisanship happened. It happened because Ross Perot 1:48:59.439 --> 1:49:05.479 essentially threatened his candidacy, threatened the success of both parties 1:49:05.479 --> 1:49:10.280 at one point or another, and so it almost served 1:49:11.040 --> 1:49:17.840 as a as a force, as a mechanism to force bipartisanship. 1:49:21.960 --> 1:49:27.040 You know, the nineties recipe for bipartisanship also had one 1:49:27.080 --> 1:49:30.400 party controlling Congress, one party controlling the presidency. In the 1:49:30.439 --> 1:49:32.880 twenty first century, the handful of times we've had that 1:49:32.920 --> 1:49:36.519 it didn't, it didn't. It didn't lead to in many 1:49:36.640 --> 1:49:40.479 bipartisan successes. And in some ways I think this is 1:49:41.080 --> 1:49:43.840 thanks to the Internet age to be fair filthy, Frank, 1:49:43.920 --> 1:49:47.559 I mean, that's that's what I think has done it. 1:49:47.640 --> 1:49:51.400 I think that in the you know where anytime you 1:49:51.520 --> 1:49:55.360 quote helped the other party, it becomes a problem for 1:49:55.479 --> 1:49:58.360 the base and they amplify it and they get everybody 1:49:58.400 --> 1:50:01.400 fired up, and they threatened primary h challenges and all 1:50:01.439 --> 1:50:08.120 of a sudden, this wayward moderate r moderate d has 1:50:08.200 --> 1:50:12.800 been tamed by the outrages of the base. We saw 1:50:12.840 --> 1:50:15.439 a version of that on the Republican side with Joni 1:50:15.520 --> 1:50:18.880 Ernst and the confirmation of Pete Hegseth right, she was 1:50:18.880 --> 1:50:24.519 basically shamed and threatened and harassed until she agreed to 1:50:24.520 --> 1:50:28.920 do it. In the pre internet days, haig Seth never 1:50:29.000 --> 1:50:31.360 makes it. Eg Seth probably doesn't even even get out 1:50:31.360 --> 1:50:35.720 of committee in the pre internet days. But he saidially 1:50:36.520 --> 1:50:39.400 making it public and forcing it that way did so. 1:50:40.680 --> 1:50:42.800 I concur with you that it's not going to come 1:50:42.800 --> 1:50:45.200 from one of the two major parties and that they 1:50:45.240 --> 1:50:48.600 would successfully do it. I do think a term with 1:50:48.680 --> 1:50:57.040 an independent basically just highlighting the fact that both parties 1:50:57.040 --> 1:50:59.960 have failed us and have helped tear this country apart, 1:51:02.640 --> 1:51:07.719 would could could serve as that as sort of return, 1:51:07.880 --> 1:51:10.519 sort of Like I said, I refer to sobering up 1:51:12.200 --> 1:51:17.719 the two political parties. Next question comes from Lincoln from Columbus, Ohio, 1:51:17.880 --> 1:51:20.519 but he makes it clear he's not a Buckeye fan. Well, 1:51:20.560 --> 1:51:24.880 that's why I'm taking your question. Lincoln. By the way, 1:51:24.920 --> 1:51:27.880 I love it Lincoln from Columbus. Maybe I could meet 1:51:27.880 --> 1:51:32.760 Columbus from Lincoln anyway, Hey, Chuck La Cheeseri if you 1:51:32.800 --> 1:51:35.839 know you know I love the todcast and appreciate the commentary, 1:51:35.840 --> 1:51:38.080 extended interviews and deep dives into all things politics and 1:51:38.080 --> 1:51:40.360 politics adjacent news stories. You're right, we need more in 1:51:40.400 --> 1:51:42.479 depth conversations and fewer sound bitdes. I have a question 1:51:42.479 --> 1:51:46.320 about Senate and House hearings. Do the people testifying have 1:51:46.360 --> 1:51:48.880 an idea of the questions in advance? Obviously this would 1:51:48.920 --> 1:51:51.400 be more partisan, because when RFK testified, I can't imagine 1:51:51.439 --> 1:51:54.520 Democrats would provide their questions, but I can see Republicans 1:51:54.560 --> 1:51:56.200 trying to curry favor with the White House, if not 1:51:56.240 --> 1:52:00.160 overtly providing questions in advance, perhaps in a meaning mentioning 1:52:00.400 --> 1:52:02.400 that a question like that may come up with a 1:52:02.439 --> 1:52:04.439 link and a not Thanks for the work and information 1:52:04.479 --> 1:52:05.960 to look forward to the mornings when I see the 1:52:06.000 --> 1:52:09.080 pod drop, Well, it's great to hear. Thanks Lincoln, appreciate that. 1:52:11.560 --> 1:52:15.200 On hearings, you know, it depends. There's some people do 1:52:15.320 --> 1:52:24.280 mock hearings. A friendly hearing, right your friendly side, you 1:52:24.360 --> 1:52:27.920 will know, you know, you might know they might have Hey, 1:52:27.960 --> 1:52:30.840 I'll uh, I know you're going to get attacked for 1:52:30.880 --> 1:52:32.920 this issue. I'll be able to ask you this question 1:52:32.960 --> 1:52:36.400 on follow up. So the point is the answer is yes, okay, 1:52:37.320 --> 1:52:42.160 what you suspect is true partisan. You know, anybody that 1:52:42.200 --> 1:52:46.240 is that is favorable to the person testifying, If that 1:52:46.320 --> 1:52:50.320 person is in government and has a relationship, that likely 1:52:50.320 --> 1:52:53.839 means they have some sort of professional relationship with that senator, 1:52:53.840 --> 1:52:55.920 with that Senate staffer, with that House member, with that 1:52:55.960 --> 1:53:00.599 House staffer. So in that sense, yes, they're told, hey, 1:53:00.600 --> 1:53:02.200 I'm going to ask about this, this, and this if 1:53:02.200 --> 1:53:04.920 they're friendly. Obviously you don't you don't get the questions 1:53:04.920 --> 1:53:09.160 in advance of the others. But you know, if you 1:53:09.240 --> 1:53:11.559 don't know what's coming, you're not very good at your job, 1:53:12.640 --> 1:53:15.240 or you don't have a staff that's very bright about this. 1:53:17.040 --> 1:53:19.400 I've never watched one of these congressional hearings and been 1:53:19.439 --> 1:53:23.599 surprised by a question. Right, Sometimes you might get surprised 1:53:23.600 --> 1:53:26.799 if it's like arcane, it'll be like oh, and again, 1:53:27.320 --> 1:53:29.720 when you're surprised as a person testifying, it means your 1:53:29.720 --> 1:53:33.120 staffers blew it. You know, a good staffer should know, Hey, 1:53:33.160 --> 1:53:36.559 Senator Schmengi is obsessed with this one arcane issue. No 1:53:36.560 --> 1:53:38.479 one else is going to ask about it. But you 1:53:38.560 --> 1:53:40.960 may be asked about it from him or her, you 1:53:41.040 --> 1:53:47.640 better know it. But no, your suspicion on essentially partisans 1:53:47.640 --> 1:53:52.400 helping helping the friendlies is one hundred percent trough. There's 1:53:52.439 --> 1:53:54.200 always by the way it happens in the White House 1:53:54.200 --> 1:53:57.840 press room, there are certain reporters that are essentially used 1:53:57.880 --> 1:54:01.400 by the person at the podium. Maybe they don't know 1:54:01.439 --> 1:54:02.920 the question that's going to be asked, but they know 1:54:02.960 --> 1:54:04.760 it's not going to be antagonistic, and they go to 1:54:04.800 --> 1:54:08.880 them as almost like a break if they're if they're 1:54:08.880 --> 1:54:14.240 getting attacked. And every press secretary has had those in 1:54:14.280 --> 1:54:19.040 their back pocket, this one has more friendlies than most 1:54:19.080 --> 1:54:23.320 that I've noticed. Next question, boy, you absolutely nail it 1:54:23.360 --> 1:54:26.120 in your nine to fifteen commentary. Politics should be about 1:54:26.120 --> 1:54:27.680 I believe in A and you believe in Z, and 1:54:27.720 --> 1:54:31.120 we meet somewhere around l M n OP. But Congress 1:54:31.120 --> 1:54:33.280 now seems allergic to compromise, acting as a blank check 1:54:33.280 --> 1:54:36.080 for Trump's agenda. I also agree that social media fuels division. 1:54:36.080 --> 1:54:38.440 I even deactivated my own accounts after hearing every network 1:54:38.440 --> 1:54:41.960 link the latest shooting to online extremism. Podcasts can be 1:54:42.040 --> 1:54:45.600 similarly insular, Yes they can, though yours stands out for 1:54:45.800 --> 1:54:49.560 presenting multiple viewpoints, which I really appreciate. Michael C. From Douglasville, Georgia, Well, 1:54:49.560 --> 1:54:52.520 I appreciate you noticing that. It's what I'm trying to do. 1:54:54.600 --> 1:54:58.240 That's a frustration of the sort of the architecture that 1:54:58.280 --> 1:55:00.760 the tech companies have created for those of us in 1:55:00.760 --> 1:55:07.320 this independent space. I you know, I appreciate substack. You 1:55:07.320 --> 1:55:10.040 can sort of curate yourself. They don't feel I don't 1:55:10.080 --> 1:55:12.240 feel like they use algorithms to push stuff on me. 1:55:12.320 --> 1:55:15.800 It's you're you only get pushed stuff from the actual 1:55:16.080 --> 1:55:19.840 publisher of the content or people that you know. If 1:55:19.880 --> 1:55:23.000 you decide to subscribe, then you're asked to to to 1:55:22.640 --> 1:55:26.520 spread the word. It's a it's a it's a healthier 1:55:26.560 --> 1:55:32.120 way to do it on that front. But the you know, 1:55:32.240 --> 1:55:36.160 that's the problem, right And you see, I don't want 1:55:36.160 --> 1:55:39.879 to build an audience where I feel like I'm captured 1:55:39.880 --> 1:55:44.800 by the audience. Now, I just I I am a 1:55:44.840 --> 1:55:50.000 podcast listener because I'm trying to get more information. I 1:55:50.120 --> 1:55:52.280 I sort of listened to three types of podcasts. One 1:55:52.360 --> 1:55:56.040 is deep dives on history, one is on economic and 1:55:56.120 --> 1:55:59.360 a bunch of sports. Not Gonna lie uh, maybe one 1:55:59.400 --> 1:56:03.480 or two. And it's gambling. A few in sports cards, 1:56:04.680 --> 1:56:07.640 but quite a few in history on that stuff. And 1:56:07.720 --> 1:56:12.120 I want information over commentary, right, I don't necessarily want 1:56:13.200 --> 1:56:15.560 left right commentary. I can read the left right commentary 1:56:16.520 --> 1:56:19.640 on that front. But I do think that, you know, 1:56:20.040 --> 1:56:23.040 I'm very mindful. I don't want I don't want to. 1:56:23.400 --> 1:56:25.440 I don't want an audience. I don't want to feel 1:56:25.440 --> 1:56:28.560 like I've been captured by my subscribers or my audience, 1:56:28.640 --> 1:56:30.360 or however you want to look at it. I think 1:56:30.400 --> 1:56:32.360 that you've seen that. I feel like I see that 1:56:32.400 --> 1:56:35.480 in the New York Times, you know, when they chased 1:56:35.520 --> 1:56:38.040 away James Bennett from being editorial page editor of the 1:56:38.040 --> 1:56:42.560 opinion section. He didn't do anything wrong, he didn't he 1:56:42.560 --> 1:56:45.440 didn't do anything fireable by the editors, but there was 1:56:45.440 --> 1:56:48.560 a revolt among subscribers, and they were concerned about losing 1:56:48.680 --> 1:56:51.360 subscribers and losing it. And it seems like he was 1:56:51.400 --> 1:56:56.360 sacrificed for that. Well, when you make a decision based 1:56:56.400 --> 1:57:00.800 on viewership or who's watching. Look, I don't want to 1:57:00.800 --> 1:57:07.720 get into too many details, but you know that these 1:57:07.800 --> 1:57:10.960 were these were some of the struggles when when when 1:57:11.000 --> 1:57:15.880 I was trying to do a a a non ideological 1:57:17.200 --> 1:57:20.920 partisan show on politics on a cable channel that had 1:57:20.920 --> 1:57:25.200 a history of being partisan, and it was the audience. 1:57:25.440 --> 1:57:27.720 The audience was uncomfortable with it. They didn't like when 1:57:27.720 --> 1:57:30.040 I would put Republicans on and it would become a thing, 1:57:30.200 --> 1:57:33.240 and I didn't like that I was being used by 1:57:33.240 --> 1:57:35.200 the right at times to try to do it was 1:57:35.280 --> 1:57:38.040 just a mess. But it's what happens when you have 1:57:38.080 --> 1:57:41.120 audience capture, and it is something I'm trying really hard 1:57:41.160 --> 1:57:44.120 not to have audience capture. I appreciate you noticing it, 1:57:44.200 --> 1:57:48.000 and I'm trying, so thank you, and we'll spread the word. 1:57:49.120 --> 1:57:52.000 Uh all right, I'm gonna sneak in at least one 1:57:52.000 --> 1:57:54.440 more question here. I've got I've got a little I'm 1:57:54.480 --> 1:57:57.360 on the clock before taping, so I want to see 1:57:57.360 --> 1:57:59.360 how mannyn't get in. James E writes, Is it me 1:57:59.440 --> 1:58:01.640 or does it seem the right are being opportunity to 1:58:01.760 --> 1:58:04.640 utilizing their friend's death as a reason to go after 1:58:04.680 --> 1:58:07.640 the left. I don't think it's just you. If you 1:58:07.680 --> 1:58:11.960 hear my commentary top, that's I think exactly what's happening. 1:58:12.200 --> 1:58:13.680 Seems like such an odd time to go on the 1:58:13.720 --> 1:58:16.200 attack rather than to mourn a supposed friend. Have there 1:58:16.240 --> 1:58:18.400 been other instances in the past of a political death 1:58:18.440 --> 1:58:20.840 or assassination being used to attack the other side so 1:58:20.840 --> 1:58:24.640 soon after the incident. Well, here's the thing. In the 1:58:24.680 --> 1:58:31.880 Internet era, we see it all, you know, and it 1:58:31.920 --> 1:58:35.560 gets It's something that I think social media also provides 1:58:35.640 --> 1:58:38.680 us with that. God, this is why I think it's 1:58:38.720 --> 1:58:44.920 an experiment gone haywire on our brains. I can't remember 1:58:44.920 --> 1:58:47.040 if I shared this earlier with you guys or with 1:58:47.080 --> 1:58:50.080 my friend Crystalizza on the weekly podcast I do for 1:58:50.120 --> 1:58:54.480 his feed. But John pot Horitz, who's an editor at 1:58:54.520 --> 1:59:00.000 Commentary Magazine from He's a conservative commentator, had a fascinating 1:59:00.120 --> 1:59:05.600 thread over the weekend about how the real issue with 1:59:05.640 --> 1:59:09.080 social media is that too many good people have allowed 1:59:09.120 --> 1:59:12.960 too much of their of their inner thoughts go public. 1:59:13.960 --> 1:59:16.120 And what he was saying is that look, in any 1:59:16.120 --> 1:59:20.240 given second, if our thought, if every thought that was 1:59:20.280 --> 1:59:23.320 in our head, do this exercise and think about everything 1:59:23.440 --> 1:59:26.640 you may have thought about for a split second involving 1:59:26.680 --> 1:59:34.400 your life, anything about it, right, relationships, you name it. 1:59:34.120 --> 1:59:38.080 If if all those thoughts were broadcast on social media, 1:59:38.920 --> 1:59:40.720 do you think you'd have any friends left. Would you 1:59:40.760 --> 1:59:44.200 still be married, would you still be in relationships? Would 1:59:44.200 --> 1:59:46.440 you be seen as a madman? Would you be seen 1:59:46.440 --> 1:59:49.200 as crazy? Right? I think you sort of get what 1:59:49.280 --> 1:59:52.040 I'm saying, or maybe maybe I'm the weirdo that that 1:59:52.040 --> 1:59:55.160 that is admitting that you know, you get. There's plenty 1:59:55.200 --> 1:59:58.240 of things you think that you don't say, and somehow 1:59:58.280 --> 2:00:03.240 social media, like I was reading, I was reading a 2:00:03.320 --> 2:00:07.280 quote from somebody who was who oh, I know what 2:00:07.320 --> 2:00:07.680 it was. 2:00:07.840 --> 2:00:08.240 It was. 2:00:10.600 --> 2:00:14.120 An elected official down in my hometown in South Florida, 2:00:14.160 --> 2:00:17.840 in Miami, Palmetto Bay, one of these invented towns in 2:00:17.920 --> 2:00:22.200 Dade County, I say invented there. When I was growing up, 2:00:22.200 --> 2:00:24.400 there were thirty one municipalities. I think we're up the 2:00:24.400 --> 2:00:27.440 thirty six down there in Miami Dade County. Palmetto Bay 2:00:27.520 --> 2:00:29.000 is now one of them. It all used to be 2:00:29.040 --> 2:00:33.120 unincorporated Dade County, so we all wrote Miami is our address, 2:00:33.200 --> 2:00:38.400 which is I grew up an unincorporated Dade County. Otherwise 2:00:38.440 --> 2:00:42.520 I describe it as East Kendall if you're scoring at home. 2:00:43.640 --> 2:00:47.320 But an elected official went out there and said something 2:00:47.360 --> 2:00:54.040 really you know, said something really not good about Charlie Kirkstaff. 2:00:54.720 --> 2:00:57.879 I don't remember the exact things. I'm hesitant to characterize 2:00:57.880 --> 2:01:01.360 it other than it was in a and certainly the 2:01:01.400 --> 2:01:05.080 timing was inappropriate, and the guy had said he goes 2:01:05.120 --> 2:01:08.120 he woke up the next morning and regretted sending it, right, 2:01:08.200 --> 2:01:11.760 it was heat of the moment. I bring this up 2:01:11.800 --> 2:01:18.680 because I think that that's where we've let why social 2:01:18.720 --> 2:01:24.480 media is so so toxic and so bad for our brains. Right, 2:01:24.560 --> 2:01:31.280 there's no there's no uh, there's no sort of it 2:01:31.280 --> 2:01:33.600 should sit in drafts, right, Like you know, if you 2:01:33.720 --> 2:01:37.520 if you're worried about your inner id saying something that 2:01:37.880 --> 2:01:40.640 you'll regret in the morning, It's almost like you should 2:01:40.640 --> 2:01:43.000 be able to put a small g governor and your 2:01:43.040 --> 2:01:46.120 Twitter feed and just say send all tweets to draft, 2:01:46.240 --> 2:01:48.480 and then the next morning reread them and see if 2:01:48.920 --> 2:01:50.680 you want to send them. But of course, you know, 2:01:51.120 --> 2:01:52.800 nobody wants to do that because they want to be 2:01:52.840 --> 2:01:54.360 in the moment. You want to see if you go 2:01:54.520 --> 2:01:57.680 viral or whatever. Right, And so I just bring that 2:01:57.800 --> 2:02:02.400 up because I have a feeling in the pre social 2:02:02.440 --> 2:02:07.320 media world, there were plenty of people who had unpopular 2:02:07.360 --> 2:02:12.320 opinions about political attacks or assassinations that if they shared them, 2:02:12.440 --> 2:02:14.040 and if there had been social media at the time, 2:02:14.080 --> 2:02:18.640 would have probably gotten them, you know, canceled, and maybe 2:02:18.640 --> 2:02:20.560 in some cases deservedly. So I'm not going to even 2:02:20.600 --> 2:02:22.480 I don't want to sit here and defend that idea. 2:02:24.160 --> 2:02:27.040 But I think this is where social media is just 2:02:27.280 --> 2:02:32.960 it incentivizes stupidity, and it sometimes you know, remember the 2:02:33.000 --> 2:02:36.760 advice I assume everybody has heard this advice, if you 2:02:36.760 --> 2:02:39.080 don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. 2:02:39.760 --> 2:02:42.600 It's certainly a rule of thumb I have or about 2:02:42.600 --> 2:02:47.280 people that die in politics. You know, if you know you, 2:02:47.520 --> 2:02:52.120 you certainly if you've got a disagreement you want to highlight. 2:02:52.200 --> 2:02:55.400 Maybe wait, let the family mourn, have some grace, right, 2:02:55.480 --> 2:03:02.040 whatever it is. And for some reason social media has 2:03:02.080 --> 2:03:04.720 made us think that the rules of the korum don't 2:03:04.720 --> 2:03:07.760 apply when how would you behave in you know, if 2:03:07.800 --> 2:03:11.640 you were face to face with that person, if you 2:03:12.160 --> 2:03:14.440 were trying, if you put yourself saying, if I was 2:03:14.480 --> 2:03:18.440 face to face, how would I say this? It probably 2:03:18.440 --> 2:03:23.440 would make Twitter less interesting. But maybe that's a good 2:03:23.480 --> 2:03:26.880 thing on this front. But I'm really worried about a 2:03:26.920 --> 2:03:29.920 sort of red scare vibe as I said at the 2:03:29.960 --> 2:03:35.440 top here, and a disingenuous attack on this that this 2:03:35.600 --> 2:03:39.240 is just trying to do guilt by association, which is, 2:03:39.640 --> 2:03:44.040 you know, it's a very dangerous. It's you know, it's 2:03:44.280 --> 2:03:50.600 our polarization is bad. Are the increase in political violence 2:03:50.600 --> 2:03:54.640 that we've been experiencing is bad, and scapegoating and guilt 2:03:54.640 --> 2:03:56.880 by association is only going to make all of these 2:03:56.880 --> 2:04:03.040 things worse. All right, On that happy note, I think 2:04:03.040 --> 2:04:07.960 I'm going to pause here for twenty four hours. This was, 2:04:08.000 --> 2:04:09.480 like I said, I wanted to make it a little 2:04:09.480 --> 2:04:14.000 canpain heavier episode. But look, we're we're living in a 2:04:14.080 --> 2:04:18.240 rough period, and if we don't have the leaders to 2:04:18.240 --> 2:04:20.240 get us out of this rough period, do little things 2:04:20.240 --> 2:04:28.560 on your own, right, you know, just say thank you, 2:04:28.720 --> 2:04:32.480 say hi to somebody you don't know, Acknowledge somebody's existence 2:04:32.480 --> 2:04:36.280 when you walk by them, you know, on a street corner. 2:04:39.920 --> 2:04:43.680 And Spencer Cox said, touch grass, right, but turn it off. 2:04:44.080 --> 2:04:48.000 You know, I have I all the time try to 2:04:48.040 --> 2:04:51.720 do better when it comes to when I'm a news junkie. 2:04:51.760 --> 2:04:54.160 I'm an information junkie, so I'm always looking for more information. 2:04:55.080 --> 2:04:58.400 But I have found different ways now to get information 2:04:58.520 --> 2:05:02.960 without using social media. Not totally gone. I'm not totally 2:05:03.040 --> 2:05:05.560 kicked the habit. You know, I might be smoking one 2:05:05.560 --> 2:05:09.640 cigarette a day, but I'm not smoking twenty and I 2:05:09.680 --> 2:05:13.160 think that's the I think if everybody took that advice, 2:05:13.400 --> 2:05:17.560 you know, wean themselves off, we might have a better 2:05:18.120 --> 2:05:23.160 digital atmosphere. So with that, I'll take a break until 2:05:23.160 --> 2:05:29.840 we upload again. See in twenty four hours.