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Speaker 1: Hello, They're happy Wednesday, and welcome to another episode of

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Speaker 1: the Chuck Podcast. Today's is somewhat a thematic day most Wednesdays,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to be in the habit of doing a

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Speaker 1: little bit of updating of what I'm seeing on the

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Speaker 1: campaign trail, and frankly, my campaign notebook has been overflowing

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Speaker 1: with things and it matches up really well with who

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Speaker 1: my guests plural are today. I have a joint interview

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Speaker 1: today with two candidates for the US Senate. One is

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Speaker 1: running as an independent in South Dakota and another is

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Speaker 1: running as an independent in Idaho. It's Brian Bangs and

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Speaker 1: Todd Achilles. They both run for office previously as Democrats

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Speaker 1: and basically have decided the Democratic brand makes it impossible

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Speaker 1: for them to have a conversation with voters. You'll hear

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Speaker 1: better letting them describe their attempts at doing this. Both

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Speaker 1: of them, I think, do feel they've always been independent

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Speaker 1: and only aside to run for office because of the

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Speaker 1: so called doopoly, and in this case this cycle we've

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Speaker 1: seen and they're working pretty closely with Dan Osborne, who

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Speaker 1: was a pretty successful independent candidate in Nebraska last cycle.

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Speaker 1: He ended up getting over forty percent. Now he benefited

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Speaker 1: from the fact that the Democratic Party in Nebraska essentially

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Speaker 1: took a knee right, didn't really compete. And that's obviously

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Speaker 1: what these two independent candidates in Idaho where Jim Reisch

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Speaker 1: is the nominee, that's who Todd A. Chilles is running against,

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Speaker 1: and Brian Bangs is running against Mike Bround's a Republican

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Speaker 1: senator there. Now I think they both it's it's I

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Speaker 1: think it really goes to underscore sort of the brand

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Speaker 1: problem the Democratic Party has in Read America that even

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Speaker 1: though there is you know, and both of them will

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Speaker 1: argue that there is there is a there is you know,

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Speaker 1: there is a mainstream middle in all of these places,

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Speaker 1: it's just that the Democratic brand, particularly in Red America,

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Speaker 1: where there's only been essentially one side competing one side branding,

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Speaker 1: it's really put the Democrats in a hole. Even though

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Speaker 1: there's an electorate that they're not a one hundred percent MEGA.

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Speaker 1: There might not even be fifty percent MEGA. So there's

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Speaker 1: an opening, but there's not the Democrat. Putting a D

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Speaker 1: next to your name in some of these places makes

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Speaker 1: it impossible to have a conversation with some voters and

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Speaker 1: it is, you know, in some ways, this is where

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Speaker 1: we you know, it's it's a result of the of

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Speaker 1: the the polarized politics that have that are arguably paralyzing

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Speaker 1: us as a nation right now. Look, and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be honest. This has been I always say when

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Speaker 1: people use that phrase, I use it as a crutch.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest as if I'm not being honest before.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to cure myself of using that crutch. But

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Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say is is that I'm letting

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Speaker 1: you in on sort of some personal feelings that I

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Speaker 1: normally don't like to share, and that is I just

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Speaker 1: feel rotten about the state of the country. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sleeping very well about it. And because I don't see

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Speaker 1: a path out of this right now, I'm long term optimistic.

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Speaker 1: And I'm still going to be a long term optimistic.

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Speaker 1: We've gone through a lot of bad things in this

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Speaker 1: country and gotten out better each time. Each time we

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Speaker 1: have formed a more perfect union. Whether it was the

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Speaker 1: scourge of slavery, whether it has been then giving civil

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Speaker 1: rights and Jim Crow, whether it has been the internment

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Speaker 1: of the Japanese, whether it was prohibition The point is

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Speaker 1: is that we've gone down. We've had a lot of

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Speaker 1: the red scare, which I'm bringing that up for a

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Speaker 1: reason because I think we might be seeing a fervor,

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Speaker 1: particularly on the right, that wants to try to essentially

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Speaker 1: stain an entire political party with an ideological belief that

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Speaker 1: I don't think the country shares, but one side of

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Speaker 1: the aisle shares. I mean, the initial what folks around

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Speaker 1: the president have been promising when it comes to retribution,

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Speaker 1: going after the left, sort of being blind to the

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Speaker 1: violent outbursts that have taken place that people have, you know,

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Speaker 1: violence and murders that have been done in the name

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Speaker 1: of a far right ideology. The fact of the matter

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Speaker 1: is we have got a poisonous information ecosystem that can

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Speaker 1: radicalize somebody on the left or somebody on the right

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Speaker 1: to do bad things. Our system is rigged towards it.

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Speaker 1: I spend my sub stack this week talking about this,

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Speaker 1: and I know I've brought it up here before. In

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Speaker 1: some ways, it's you know, some of you may be

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Speaker 1: listening and going, oh, there's Chuck on his soapbox about

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Speaker 1: big tech. But the fact of the matter is, we

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Speaker 1: know we have two problems right, we all know this

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Speaker 1: is a problem, which is social media has completely screwed

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Speaker 1: up our information ecosystem, and the tech companies, for some

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Speaker 1: reason are getting no blame and not being held accountable

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Speaker 1: for this their algorithms, and they're look, it's the efficiency

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Speaker 1: of technologies. And I say this was sort of without

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Speaker 1: sort of animus in this point. Right, technology, every time

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Speaker 1: you know, we advance, you know, it creates an efficiency.

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Speaker 1: And when it came to sharing information, we created an

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Speaker 1: efficiency that it turns out is actually bad for public

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Speaker 1: discourse and it's bad for democracies. And what is that efficiency.

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Speaker 1: It's the efficiency of getting information, of boiling it down

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Speaker 1: to the one thing that matters. It's the efficiency of

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Speaker 1: being able to eliminate people that you don't want to

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Speaker 1: hear from. It's the efficiency of only being able to

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Speaker 1: see like minded people. And so that may make sense

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Speaker 1: if you're a quilter and you just want information about quilting,

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Speaker 1: or if you're a baseball card dealer and you just

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Speaker 1: want information about trading baseball cards. But it's when it's

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Speaker 1: on politics and suddenly you're only getting one side and

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Speaker 1: these algorithms, you know, I don't want to sit here

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Speaker 1: I will. I've been trying to sort of right. I

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Speaker 1: want to turn down the temperature too. I want big

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Speaker 1: tech to participate in this. But I do believe the

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Speaker 1: second an algorithm is created to curate how I see

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Speaker 1: information that has made these companies publishers. And once you're

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Speaker 1: a publisher, you should be held accountable for how the

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Speaker 1: information you're curating is being used and manipulated. But ultimately

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Speaker 1: it's going to take some leadership from Washington to do this.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I look at what's happening in the

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Speaker 1: state legislatures at the moment. Over the last two years,

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Speaker 1: particularly post COVID, state legislatures have been passing have been

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Speaker 1: very aggressive on two things. And it hasn't matter whether

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Speaker 1: it's a red state or a blue state. They've all

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Speaker 1: been passing essentially the same laws. Which is a tougher

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Speaker 1: age verification to try to limit the exposure kids are

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Speaker 1: getting to pornography and it is and guess what, the

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Speaker 1: fact that the pornographers are complaining about this shows you

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Speaker 1: that the just forcing age verification, which you have to

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Speaker 1: do if you want to buy booze in you're underage,

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Speaker 1: or cigarettes or anything other vice you want to participate

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Speaker 1: in and you know, we've never the Internet's always been

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Speaker 1: very loosey goosey on identification and forcing a tougher standing there,

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Speaker 1: and we're suddenly seeing, oh, so you can put in

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Speaker 1: some some guard rails here that can do a better

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Speaker 1: job of protecting young people from this extreme pornography. And

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Speaker 1: the other thing that has been passing in state legislatures

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Speaker 1: all over the country, whether it's in a red state

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Speaker 1: or a blue state, is getting rid of cell phones

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Speaker 1: and classrooms. Right, private schools had been doing it earlier, Right,

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Speaker 1: the public schools are now following suit. Look, there are

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Speaker 1: and I think i've we've discussed this before. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I am, I am empathetic to divorce parents who need

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Speaker 1: to have want need to make sure they have access

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Speaker 1: to their kid during the school day. But there are

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Speaker 1: ways to do this, right, you put you know, you

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Speaker 1: can look at your phone in between classes. You can

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Speaker 1: have it in your backpack, in your locker, you can

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Speaker 1: have it in a in a pad which you don't

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Speaker 1: have it while you're learning. You take one hundred percent

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Speaker 1: attention to your teacher, one hundred percent attention to what

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Speaker 1: you're to what you're doing, and maybe as our friend

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Speaker 1: Spencer Cox and Uteh likes to say, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: touch grass every now and then, which, as a kid,

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Speaker 1: touching grass is pretty important. But when you think about it,

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Speaker 1: we're so worried about what social media and the and

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Speaker 1: the tech companies are doing to our kids that we're

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Speaker 1: trying to do something about it. Guess what, if it's

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Speaker 1: toxic for our kids, it means it's toxic for us too,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. And so look, I'm a free speech absolutist.

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Speaker 1: I am. I do think bad speech is fixed with

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Speaker 1: good speech. But amplification is not free speech. Right, dialing

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Speaker 1: up and dialing down what you see and what you hear,

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Speaker 1: that's not free speech. That's curative speech. Right, that's a campaign.

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Speaker 1: That's that's that's that's something that that and it should

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Speaker 1: be up to the user. If I want to curate

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Speaker 1: my feed a certain way, it should be in my hands.

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Speaker 1: I don't need the tech companies suggesting what I should

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Speaker 1: be looking at. A for you tab like our friends

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Speaker 1: a X do, which is just nothing, but you know,

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Speaker 1: it thinks it knows my interests. But it will always

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Speaker 1: be the most incendiary thing about a topic I care about,

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Speaker 1: even when it comes to Miami Hurricane football, Green Bay

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Speaker 1: Packer football, or Washington Nationals baseball, let alone the various

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Speaker 1: political things, you know, attacks on the media, sometimes personal

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Speaker 1: attacks on me. They make sure it shows up in

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Speaker 1: the four U tab. What does that accomplish. I didn't

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Speaker 1: ask for this. In fact, I've gone out of my

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Speaker 1: way to mute the idiots, and yet it's still you know,

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Speaker 1: these things still show up. So you know, we are

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Speaker 1: in that sense, we're powerless on this. And then you

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Speaker 1: have the two parties who have been very reticent to write.

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Speaker 1: You know, they talk a big game. Individual members talk

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Speaker 1: a big game about regulating big tech, but they don't

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Speaker 1: end up doing it. And part of the problem is

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Speaker 1: I just was talking to a former US senator and

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Speaker 1: you know, you'll you'll figure it out in a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks when you when you see the interview that

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Speaker 1: pops up in a and when I do it. But

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Speaker 1: I was talking to a US senator who said to me,

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Speaker 1: he said in passing that you know, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think we have to do something about tech. And he

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Speaker 1: said within two within an hour, he had he suddenly

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Speaker 1: had Sheryl Sandberg and Jack Dorsey calling him to like,

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Speaker 1: are you sure, what are you talking about? What are

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Speaker 1: you concerned about? With what tech is doing? Tech, the

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Speaker 1: big tech companies have really just saturated Washington with money

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Speaker 1: left and right. They've hired up all sorts of strategists

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Speaker 1: and former staffers left and right. It is frankly standard

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Speaker 1: practice for a powerful industry. Okay, this is no different

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Speaker 1: than big oil in the eighties and things like that.

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Speaker 1: And so what you've seen is kid glove treatment. Right.

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Speaker 1: We haven't had anything on maybe repealing Section two thirty.

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Speaker 1: We haven't had anything remotely close to trying to have

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Speaker 1: a digital bill of rights that protects our data, right

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Speaker 1: rather than allows so many other entities to own and

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Speaker 1: buy and sell our data. And you know they've done

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Speaker 1: a good job with that. And so what you have

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Speaker 1: now is twenty years of elected officials who don't know

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Speaker 1: how to attain power without the tech tools. Right. So

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Speaker 1: that makes him hesitant. I mean, look, I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to be labor this point. I want the president to

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Speaker 1: rise above his partisan instincts and meet this moment the

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Speaker 1: way it needs to be met, the way George Bush

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Speaker 1: met nine to eleven, the way Barack Obama did Charleston,

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Speaker 1: the way Bill Clinton handled Oklahoma City. We haven't gotten

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Speaker 1: that from him yet. If anything, he views it, he's done.

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Speaker 1: What about ism? You know, when he was questioned on

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Speaker 1: Fox about extremists on the right, he essentially rationalized their extremism, saying, well,

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Speaker 1: they care about they're upset about crime, I think, is

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Speaker 1: what he said. And when you see these leading partisan

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Speaker 1: politicians saying that they're going to investigate the left, that's

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Speaker 1: red scare stuff, right. That's what happened in the fifties,

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Speaker 1: and it was an ugly It was an ugly period

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Speaker 1: in Washington where guilt by association was the coin of

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Speaker 1: the realm. And that seems to be what's happening here

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Speaker 1: is that you have a lot of folks here that

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Speaker 1: see an opportunity right for political exploitation. But here's the

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Speaker 1: other thing. If you attained power in this polarized era,

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Speaker 1: you don't want it to change, do you. You don't

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Speaker 1: want to go back to an era that might be

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Speaker 1: a bit more unifying, a bit more bipartisan. Bypartisanship is

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Speaker 1: not good for Donald Trump, right, by partisanship hasn't been

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Speaker 1: you know, partisanship has been you know, the Democrats arguably

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Speaker 1: have done better because of reactionary partisanship with Trump. You know,

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Speaker 1: the brand has been problematic now arguably going back to

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Speaker 1: the Hillary Clinton nomination, but their success has been due

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Speaker 1: to polarization. Trump's ability to get a second term was

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Speaker 1: due to polarization. And so you know, when you're sort

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Speaker 1: of stuck, you know, the only way you know how

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Speaker 1: to win is this way. Then the incentives are all.

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Speaker 1: You know, our incentive structures are broken. And you've heard

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Speaker 1: me use that phrase before. You've heard a lot of

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Speaker 1: people say this, Okay, so how do we create better

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Speaker 1: incentive structures? Well, the only way I think, which then

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Speaker 1: fits the theme where I have today, which is the

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Speaker 1: rise of the independence. The fastest growing political party in

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Speaker 1: America is no party right. People are registering are you

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Speaker 1: know if they were registered? A lot of former Republicans

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Speaker 1: registered is Independent because they don't like Trump. You now

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Speaker 1: have a lot of former Democrats registering is Independent because

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Speaker 1: they don't like what's happened to the Democratic brand under

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Speaker 1: Biden Harris, and you're starting to see that. We're seeing

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Speaker 1: gen z is sort of be on the on the

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Speaker 1: age front. You're seeing a lot more of registered independence.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I always love I always love to

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Speaker 1: go around. I mean, and we're up to I think

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Speaker 1: half the states where non party or no party or

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Speaker 1: registered independence outnumber at least one of the two major parties.

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Speaker 1: And I believe it's in ten states where independence actually

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Speaker 1: outnumber both major parties. So there's a huge constituency out

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Speaker 1: there who don't like what's happened to the two parties. Now, look,

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Speaker 1: I am I am done sitting here making the do

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Speaker 1: I think in a perfect world, I think we should

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Speaker 1: be a four party system. I think it would actually

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Speaker 1: provide some relief bout would force coalition politics. But I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to go down that rabbit hole today because

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Speaker 1: I do I want to stick to topic here. What

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Speaker 1: the two parties need is a time out, right, they

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Speaker 1: both need to lose at the same time, or they

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Speaker 1: both need to be punished, essentially in order to force

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Speaker 1: an inward Look, you know, I railed on Monday about

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Speaker 1: the fact that there's there is zero incentive to call

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Speaker 1: out your own party. If anything, if you call out

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Speaker 1: your own party for bad behavior, you're seen as a trader,

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Speaker 1: not as somebody looking out for the best interests of

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Speaker 1: the country or the party. And if you're going to

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Speaker 1: sort of get them out of their partisan rabbit holes.

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Speaker 1: They're going to have to be set back at the

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Speaker 1: same time or be under threat. And we've had an

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Speaker 1: example of two independent presidential candidacies that didn't win, Teddy

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt and Ross Purot, but effectively forced both parties to

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Speaker 1: reform themselves and forced you forced an issue. You know,

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Speaker 1: I look at a guy like Spencer Cox, and he's

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Speaker 1: decidedly on MAGA. Okay, in a in the pre Trump world,

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Speaker 1: Spencer Cox would be already identified as a rising star

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Speaker 1: in the Republican Party. He has no chance right in

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Speaker 1: the Maga Republican Party. But his voice and how in

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Speaker 1: his north star about what the tech companies have done

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Speaker 1: to us and how this has happened. I kind of

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Speaker 1: think because he's a little bit younger than I am.

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Speaker 1: He's in his forties, so he's a millennial governor, and

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Speaker 1: I think he's in some ways more digital native and

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Speaker 1: unders and is better. He's just more conversant at explaining

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Speaker 1: the harm. Right. I did this interview with this older

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Speaker 1: senator and they've identified the harm, but they're not very

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Speaker 1: conversant in explaining the harm. You know, Donald Trump doesn't

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Speaker 1: really you know, he's not as conversant and couldn't explain

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Speaker 1: it if he chose to. Right, that's just just in

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Speaker 1: some ways he's just demographically out of touch. But it

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Speaker 1: feels like we're in a moment that if we're going

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Speaker 1: to force the two parties to sort of wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: we've got to put the country first every now and

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Speaker 1: then they have to be punished for their ways. And

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Speaker 1: if the public won to just like they're exhausted from this,

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Speaker 1: it may be that that you need a third party scare.

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Speaker 1: And whether it's a third party scare, can you know

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Speaker 1: every every political party needs needs a check on itself, right,

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Speaker 1: The whole point of checks and balances are good whether

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Speaker 1: you're organizing a government or you're organizing policy, you're organizing

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Speaker 1: a political party. You know, you a political party doesn't

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Speaker 1: needs to have a check on its potential ideological excesses.

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Speaker 1: There's nobody checking the maga wing of the party anymore.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of checks in the first term.

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Speaker 1: There's not many checks this term, and we've seen fewer checks.

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Speaker 1: You know, you had you had your Joe manchiins and

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Speaker 1: cinemas that were kind of the centrist check on the

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Speaker 1: Democrats before they're both gone, and there really isn't a

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Speaker 1: lot of space. I guess John Fetterman has suddenly sort

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Speaker 1: of kind of adopted that role, but I don't think

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Speaker 1: he has I don't think he has really the credibility

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Speaker 1: yet to be that check with the middle of the

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Speaker 1: road voter right. I think some of the right love

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Speaker 1: what he's doing, but but I think only for owning

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Speaker 1: the Lib's purposes, right, this whole trolley, this whole trolley mindset.

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Speaker 1: So that's what's frustrating is that we do have a problem.

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Speaker 1: We're going to have a part of it. Looks like

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Speaker 1: partisans on the right want to just try to harass

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Speaker 1: the left in under the name of trying to you know,

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Speaker 1: root out political violence, but without it all sort of

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Speaker 1: accepting the premise that hey, it's it's sadly a bipartisan affair,

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Speaker 1: and that basically it's the Internet that radicalizes folks and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter whether they come from stage left or

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Speaker 1: stage right. The one thing that we haven't that we

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Speaker 1: haven't common here is the Internet has has been, has

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Speaker 1: been what's radicalized them. And if we're not going to

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Speaker 1: confront this problem this way right now, it is going

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Speaker 1: to get worse. Okay, if you ratchet up a radical

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Speaker 1: view of what you think the other side is doing,

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Speaker 1: I promise you the other side is going to respond

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Speaker 1: in a radical way, right and radicalism, reactionary radicalism. And

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Speaker 1: here we are right, and this is this escalatory polarization

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Speaker 1: that we've been experiencing. I mean, you know, it's we've

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Speaker 1: seen it in the US Senate with the absurdity of

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Speaker 1: how how we've destroyed the judiciary branch. And make no mistake,

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Speaker 1: we've destroyed the judiciary branch with this, with this partisan

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Speaker 1: gamesmanship in the Senate, and there's always this attempt to well,

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Speaker 1: but they started it. It doesn't matter which side I

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Speaker 1: of the eylight talking about, but they started it. The

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Speaker 1: right will scream foror the left will scream, will scream

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Speaker 1: about Ruth Bader Ginsberg and Merrick Carlan. The fact is

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Speaker 1: they they both chose punishing the other side without thinking

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Speaker 1: about what it would do the judiciary itself. Right, we

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Speaker 1: turned the judiciary into the freaking House of Representatives where

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of fifty percent plus one judges are

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Speaker 1: out there. So you either have super liberal or super maga.

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Speaker 1: There is no, you have sixty sixty five votes, you

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Speaker 1: would have this sort of moderate temperaments, you know, which

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Speaker 1: is really what our politics could use. I'm not suggesting

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Speaker 1: we all ideologically have to move to the center. You

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Speaker 1: know where I stand. I'm an incrementalist, but what we

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Speaker 1: need is moderate temperament to lead us. When you're trying

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Speaker 1: to lead three hundred and fifty million people, a moderate

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Speaker 1: temperament goes a long way. And our most successful presidents

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Speaker 1: have been of moderate temperaments, regardless of how you know.

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Speaker 1: Reagan and Obama pretty mainstream liberal dem are crap mainstream

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Speaker 1: conservative Democrat almost identical temperaments, and in many ways they

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Speaker 1: had I'm sure there's some of you out there that

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Speaker 1: that have been voting long enough where you voted for

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Speaker 1: both of them almost as much because of their temperament.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a huge factor with my vote.

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Speaker 1: I want to know how this person's going to handle

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Speaker 1: a crisis. I want to know how this person's going

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Speaker 1: to handle you know. I certainly have issues, and there

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Speaker 1: are you know, there are there are veto there are candidates,

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Speaker 1: there are issues that I might veto at candidate on

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Speaker 1: because the issue matters to me. That much. But for

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Speaker 1: the most part, I'm a character and temperament guy, and

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Speaker 1: we could use a moderate temperament. But we have a

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Speaker 1: we have an information ecosystem and a political and a

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Speaker 1: political system that punishes moderation, not in ideology, which it

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Speaker 1: does do that too, but even punishes it in style.

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Speaker 1: I think that's what we would prefer as a body politic,

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Speaker 1: But the way our information ecosystem works, it seems it

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Speaker 1: seems to almost force us into the exact opposite persona.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like

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Speaker 1: there's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury

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Speaker 1: law firm. For the last thirty five years, they've recovered

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Speaker 1: twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients.

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Speaker 1: It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

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Speaker 1: just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

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Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

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Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

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Speaker 1: which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

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Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered. That original offer six hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred fifty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: So with more than a thousand lawyers across the country,

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Speaker 1: they know how to deliver for everyday people. If you're injured,

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Speaker 1: you need a lawyer, you need somebody to get your back.

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Speaker 1: Check out for the People dot com, Slash podcast or

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Speaker 1: Dow Pound Law Pound five two nine law on your

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Speaker 1: cell phone. And remember all law firms are not the same.

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Speaker 1: So check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free

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Speaker 1: unless they win. All right, I, like I said, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to mostly focus on a little bit of update

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Speaker 1: on the campaign trail. I do think as you as

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Speaker 1: those of you that listen to me because you're campaign

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Speaker 1: junkies and trying to figure out where's the party going,

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Speaker 1: I really think you're going to where both parties going.

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Speaker 1: I think you're going to enjoy this conversation with these

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Speaker 1: two independent candidates because you know they are trying to

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Speaker 1: to say, hey, look i'm a little bit on the

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Speaker 1: left over here, and I'm a little bit on the

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Speaker 1: right over here, and this is how I want to

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Speaker 1: work in the se And they even have an interesting

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Speaker 1: idea the answer to the question. And I'll let the

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Speaker 1: interview speak for itself. But the answer to the question

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Speaker 1: of Okay, if you win, you have to pick a

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Speaker 1: side who you're going to work with, Well, they have

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Speaker 1: a plan for this, and let's just say it's a

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Speaker 1: plan that I've heard others talk about in the past,

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Speaker 1: and I've seen senators chicken out at the time. The

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Speaker 1: pressure party leaders put on these folks who would make

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Speaker 1: the who could become committee chairs versus becoming ranking members,

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Speaker 1: which means being in the majority versus being the minority,

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Speaker 1: is quite you know, the pressure can be quite quite aggressive.

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Speaker 1: But I think that's that's most interesting, interesting challenge assuming

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Speaker 1: they get traction. And I have to tell you, in

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Speaker 1: this political environment right now, I think anything in the

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Speaker 1: thirties is a huge story for these independent candidates. But

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Speaker 1: I'm betting you know, I you know, I'd set the

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Speaker 1: line at thirty seven, thirty eight percentage points and I'd

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Speaker 1: take the over. I think we're going to see a

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Speaker 1: lot more. I think there's a there's certainly, and this

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Speaker 1: is something I'm watching for in these off off year

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Speaker 1: elections in twenty twenty five. I think it's going to

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Speaker 1: be a tough time for incumbents and we're seeing some

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Speaker 1: incumbent mayors struggle, and I think that across the board,

429
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: if there is a viable alternative to an incumbent, especially

430
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: they don't come from one of the two major parties.

431
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: But they seem normal. Boy, I tell you, I think

432
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: there's a constituency out there that's quite large. We'll see,

433
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: we'll see if they have the funding to get their

434
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: message out. That's always a huge challenge with third party candidates.

435
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: But in some of these smaller states, at least, the

436
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: ballot access issue isn't isn't a huge challenge. We're not

437
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: talking these large states like California, New York, Florida, where

438
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: it can be very difficult to get on the ballot

439
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: of the Florida you can usually just pay. But it's

440
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: definitely definitely something that I have made a priority to

441
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: keep track of this year, which is these these well

442
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: organized independent candidacies, particularly in states where one of the

443
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: major parties is willing to quote unquote take a knee.

444
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 1: By the way, stay tuned after the interview, I've got

445
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: my new top five list for the week. This week,

446
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: it is the top five states most likely to elect

447
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: an independent to the US Senate, which I think is

448
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: a much harder thing to pull off than it is

449
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: to elect an independent as governor. And I will explain

450
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: that on the other side. But before we get to

451
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: the other side, which I'll also take some questions, just

452
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: a few interesting updates on the campaign trail that you

453
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: might have missed. We have the redistricting horse, obviously, and

454
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: one of the questions is going to be, you know,

455
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: the big the big campaign fight on the ballot is

456
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: going to be in California where essentially the maps are

457
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: going to be on the ballot for this Novembers election

458
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: up or down. You have a huge amount of money.

459
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: There are now three different entities essentially trying to stop

460
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: this remap. You have Charlie Munger Junior, who is the

461
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: son of Charlie Munger, longtime business partner to Warren Buffett

462
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: back in the day. He's really been a political lately.

463
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: He used to be a big Republican donor. I don't

464
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: think he's a big trumpy is not as trumpy as

465
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: some other Republicans, but he was a big supporter of

466
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: the original redistricting commissions that are out there. So he

467
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: wants to defend what he did. Arnold Swarzenneker. He said

468
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: he's going to campaign, but interestingly, it sounds like he's

469
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: agreed to sort of not be the face of any

470
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: of the no movements. He's chosen not to work directly

471
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: with Munger's group, he doesn't plan to work with Kevin

472
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: McCarthy's group. He does seem to be focused on keeping

473
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: his independence. I think he doesn't want to look like

474
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: he seems to be trying to find a way he

475
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: wants to be. He wants to be pro reform, but

476
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: not necessarily looking like he's help I don't think he

477
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: wants to use the Republicans to help him get that

478
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: message across. I think he's trying to have it. But

479
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: that's a real challenge if you're Gavin Newsom and the

480
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: Democrats who are trying to get this referendum pass, and

481
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: that you have sort of you have three different entities

482
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: that are all trying to spend money to get those

483
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: in different ways. Right, You're going to have now Arnold

484
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: who is going to not associate himself with the Republican

485
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: groups but sort of be talking straight to the independence

486
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: you got. Charlie Munger's put a ton of money in there.

487
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy's got a hundred million to spend. We'll see.

488
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: It's my understanding and focus groups that the surprising thing

489
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: to my sources who've been talking to about this are

490
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: is how engaged voters are in California about it. They're

491
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: pretty well educated, they get it, and those that believe

492
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: they can get this map passed think that this is

493
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: not a bank shot. That it is important to these voters.

494
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: If you want to get them to approve this map,

495
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: they really have to believe it's temporary, and they have

496
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: if they don't believe that this will revert back to

497
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: the public process, the sort of the commission process for

498
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: twenty thirty and beyond that. That's the key when a

499
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: voter is is here's the message for it, and they

500
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: believe that aspect of it, that this is just temporary

501
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: justify what Texas is doing. They think it's enough to

502
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: get a majority. So I do think this is still

503
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: a campaign and it's infancy, but it is obviously in

504
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: some ways. May even have Virginia governor, you have New

505
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: Jersey governor, you have New York City mayor. It's you

506
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: could argue this California referendum is suddenly the most important

507
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: election this in twenty twenty five, even as the Virginia

508
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: and New Jersey are traditionally a little more high profile.

509
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: And of course Mayor of New York City. Speaking of

510
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: the redistricting, watch Missouri very closely because Missouri did its map,

511
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: but they have an interesting addendum to their constitution. So

512
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: under state law, if a petition reaches roughly one hundred

513
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: thousand signatures in six of eight congressional districts, the law

514
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: that the Missouri legislature passed with this new redistricting proposal

515
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: that would eliminate all but one Democratic leaning congressional district,

516
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: basically getting rid of the Kansas City Democratic seat. The

517
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: law would actually go before voters for an up or

518
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: down vote, and it could get repealed, and the lines

519
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: don't go into effect until that ballot referendum happened. So

520
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: if they get it, the Missouri would potentially have to

521
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: put a special election if they wanted to count for

522
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: November twenty twenty six, and they successfully have a challenge

523
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: to the state law that qualifies for the ballot, we

524
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: may have a special spring election in like March or April.

525
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: Perhaps the August primary Missouri is in August primary state.

526
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: Perhaps it goes on there, although that seems super late, right,

527
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: because that's when congressional candidates got to know which district

528
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: am I running in? So keep an eye out on

529
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: wather and it's going to tell me how organized are

530
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: the Democrats nationally? Right? The California Democrats turned out to

531
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: be very organized. I mean, whatever you think of the idea,

532
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: what Gavin Newsom has pulled off is something that I

533
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: was circumspect. I thought that with so many different stakeholders,

534
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: so many different people wanting caring about their district lines

535
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: and all of this stuff, the fact that Gavin Newsom

536
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: got that whole party to row in the same place,

537
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: it's just, you know, you got to admire the political

538
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: leadership there. That is not an easy thing he has

539
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: pulled off. Is that him or is there a pretty

540
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: strong national Democratic Party organization behind him. We're going to

541
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: find out a Missouri, right, whether there is a whether

542
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: the Democrats are as organized nationally is they clearly were

543
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: in California to push back on this, because there is

544
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: a you know, essentially a plan B in Missouri to

545
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: go to the voters and get an up or down there.

546
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: I just think it'll be really telling, But I have

547
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: to tell you there was an item in my old

548
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: my old publication I worked at before NBC, the hotline,

549
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: and they and it was just a simple construction, which

550
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: is what's always the beauty of the hotline covering the coverage, right,

551
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: and they note, I'm just going to read you the

552
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: item verbatim. Former Transportation Secretary Pete Boodage will return to

553
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: his old state this week and rally with the Indiana

554
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: Democratic Party against redistricting. That came from a press release. Meanwhile,

555
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: Hacking Jeffrey spent the weekend in California raising millions for

556
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: Fournia Proposition fifty, the Democrats redistricting ballot initiative. This is

557
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: the second trip Jeffries is made to California to support

558
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: the redistricting effort. This is to me the real sort

559
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 1: of challenge for the Democrats. On one hand, they're trying

560
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: to stop redistricting efforts, bringing in a national star to

561
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: try to do it in Indiana. Simultaneously, they're going to

562
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: California to raise money to try to support a re

563
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: redistricting effort out there. You know, it doesn't take a

564
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: communications genius to say, yaganta messaging problem right. Gone are

565
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: the days where you could message in isolation. You could

566
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: somehow talk to one group over here, tell them something,

567
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: talk to another group one hundred miles away, and somehow

568
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: they wouldn't hear. You know, you promised that you were

569
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 1: going to deal with this landfill issue in this county

570
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: over here. You told them, don't worry, the landfill's not

571
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: coming to your county. It'll stay there. And you know,

572
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: back when when communication wasn't shared so quickly, you know,

573
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: a politician could essentially talk out of both sides of

574
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: their mouth and get away with it for a period

575
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: of time until reporters over time shared information quick enough

576
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: that you couldn't do that. And I think this is

577
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: what I was reading this item. You're like, it just

578
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: made my head hurt. On one hand, a major Democratic

579
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: Party star is trying to stop a redistricting effort in Indiana.

580
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: On the other hand, a major Democratic star is going

581
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: out to California to raise money to help a redistricting

582
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: effort in another stay it. I think it goes to

583
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: why this is again, I understand the tactical decision that

584
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: the Democrats made here. Uh they feel as if, hey,

585
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: look what they're doing they they had no choice, but

586
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: it is a reminder of how complicated, uh this effort

587
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: is going to be.

588
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 2: Uh.

589
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 1: One of the candidacy that I think you should keep

590
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: an eye on that sort of fits. It's a little

591
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: bit more on which which which wing of the Democratic

592
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:30,399
Speaker 1: Party is more ascended, right, the progressive wing or the

593
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: moderate peacemaking wing. The Georgia primary for the Georgia Democratic

594
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 1: primary for governor is becoming fascinating. You now have a

595
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: former Republican Lieutenant governor, Jeff Duncan, right, who was an

596
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: early Trump critic, was on a glide path. He was

597
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: Brian Kemp's essentially, you know, on a you know, kind

598
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: of running mate. I mean, you run for LG on

599
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: your own, uh in a in a primary. But you

600
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,720
Speaker 1: know he was seen as potentially assumed era par to Kemp.

601
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: Duncan became, you know, particularly after the attempt by Trump

602
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: to essentially overturn the Georgia election, you know, twisting the

603
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: arms of party operatives. Over time, became more and more

604
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: of a Trump skeptic to the point where he is,

605
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: you know, he has now changed parties completely elected as

606
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: a Republican in Georgia. So you're not a moderate Republican

607
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: when you're winning a primary, you're pretty conventional conservative Republican.

608
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,479
Speaker 1: As lieutenant governor in twenty eighteen and now eight years later,

609
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: hopes to be the Democratic nominee for governor in twenty

610
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: twenty six. Now, look so he clearly is more in

611
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: that supermoderate lane. You now have a state Senator Jason Stevies,

612
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 1: your former Atlanta mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, who has worked

613
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: for Biden, state repend Derek Jackson, to a chief executive

614
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: Michael Thurman, who I believes run for state wide office.

615
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 1: Before it's suddenly a pretty crowd primary. There's a lot

616
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: of Atlanta Democrats in there, which could give Duncan an

617
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: opportunity if there's enough vote outside. If all of that,

618
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: all of this vote gets split up there. But it's

619
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: a just like the Michigan Democratic primary for Senate, there's

620
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: a handful of Democratic primaries that if they all go

621
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: in the same direction right the progressive wins or the

622
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: or the more center center left person wins, it may

623
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,919
Speaker 1: directionally tell us where where are rank and file Democrats right?

624
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: Are they angry and ready to go left? Or are

625
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: they exhausted and frustrated? And looking for what I call

626
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: our peacemakers right trying to trying to win win over

627
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 1: the middle. But in particular now Georgia Democratic Primary for governor,

628
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: Michigan Democratic Primary for Senate. Both of them feature candidates

629
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: from all wings of the Democratic Party, so they're all

630
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 1: going to be pretty good tests where the energy of

631
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: the party is A couple more things to talk about quickly.

632
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: On twenty twenty five, we're now seeing the real money

633
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: is coming into both New Jersey and Virginia. There was

634
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: some question with the National Republicans invest is heavily in

635
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: Virginia as they did the last time. They now have

636
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: and there's a real reason for that. Like it Ultimately

637
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: in the Republicans I've talked to about the Virginia races,

638
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: it's not that they're conceding the governor's race to Abigail Spamberger,

639
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: but they're conceding that it's an uphill battle, but they

640
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: don't want to get swept. And if there's one candidacy

641
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: that they're trying to save, it is the Attorney General

642
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: Jason Miaris. And I had a smart Democrat say that

643
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: he thinks it's the single most important race to understand

644
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: whether Democrats truly have a shot at the midterms or

645
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: whether Republicans can hold off the flip. And it's because

646
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: of the you know, you're seeing. You have a Republican

647
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: incumbent with a lot of financial advantages. You have a

648
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: Democratic challenger who's being painted as soft on crime, which

649
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: is what both Republicans and Democrats tell me is is

650
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: likely to be among the bread and butter issues you

651
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: see in the midterms, especially if the economy is not good.

652
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: Republicans are going to be running against Democrats is sort

653
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: of softened the border, soft on crime, soft on law

654
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: and order stuff, especially if they can't run in the economy,

655
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,240
Speaker 1: and right now things don't look great with the economy.

656
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: And by the way, it may not matter, right the

657
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: economy may be everything, and it may overwhelm that. But

658
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: we're going to find out how effective can a law

659
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: and order campaign overcome sort of momentum that autumn sort

660
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: of sort of the momentum that the Democrats have as

661
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: simply being the out party. Right, you know, they have

662
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: a few advantages going for them in these off yer

663
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: elections in Virginia, federal government workers being laid up, they

664
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 1: have a lot of advantages can munt Can the financial

665
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: advantage they will have, and the issue of law and

666
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: order combat that right. That Virginia AG race this cycle

667
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: could foreshadow what the midterms look like. In particular, we're

668
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: seeing a little bit in the governor's race, and don't

669
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: get me wrong, I think there'll be some culture war

670
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: type back and forth between the two governors candidates. But

671
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: in many ways all that, you know, there's Spamburger's now

672
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: up with a lot of negatives, almost just exclusively in

673
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: Northern Virginia hitting win some earl sears on just simply

674
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,720
Speaker 1: being supportive of Trump, which ironically she doesn't have Trump's

675
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: endorsement yet I think she'll get it because everything is

676
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: about helping turn out for the pot of the ticket

677
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: there the AG candidate, and if you don't have people

678
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: enthused about the gubernatorial candidate, he's going to you know,

679
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: you're just going to have a turnout issue that's going

680
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: to trickle down and cost you down the ballot. So

681
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 1: I suspect Trump comes in. It's why the RGA, I think,

682
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: has come in with real money to help the top

683
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: of the ticket, because ultimately the one they're trying to

684
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: seek and they save one of the three seeds that

685
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 1: they currently hold in Virginia. As for New Jersey, you've

686
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,919
Speaker 1: seen the Republicans have also sort of equalized money there.

687
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: We're going to have our first debates, They're going to

688
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: have two debates. I want to watch those debates. I

689
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: think that they may matter more than we fully appreciate.

690
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: I think gubernatorial debates voters care a little bit more

691
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 1: about than Senate debates. To be frank, I think Senate

692
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: campaigns are always read versus blue again, one of the

693
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: challenges for these independent candidates. But governor's races, I think

694
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: more often there are voters that will, well, we'll choose

695
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: a person over a party if there's a specific issue

696
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: that really animates them. And that's why I actually want

697
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: to withhold judgment. I have a sneaking suspicion that New

698
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: Jersey is going to be awfully closed. But let's see

699
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: how the debates play out on that front. And then

700
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 1: we've seen it looks like Donald Trump is conceding the

701
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: New York City mayor's race to Mom Donnie. It is

702
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 1: fascinating to watch these progressive pressure campaign on a Keem

703
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: Jeffries and Chuck Schumer, who have not yet endorsed Mom Donnie.

704
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: The governor of New York did. But remember, everybody, you know,

705
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: I talked about incentive structures at the top. Why does

706
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: Kathy Hulkkele have to endorse Mom Donnie because she's got

707
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: a primary challenger from the left. Neither Jeffries or Schumer

708
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: are worrying about that at the moment. Hochel has to

709
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: worry about that in the very very near term. Her

710
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: numbers aren't that great anyway. She can't afford a very

711
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,720
Speaker 1: competitive primary that would likely be negative, ugly, and only

712
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: make her potential campaign against the leastaphonic that much harder.

713
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: So I look at the whocal endorsement as a She's

714
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: got primary opponents, that's what she's worried about, and she

715
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: can't afford to alienate the progressive flank as much. Jeffries

716
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,720
Speaker 1: has got a whole other He's got a whole bunch

717
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: of Democrats running all over the country who are don't

718
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: want the future Speaker of the House looking like they

719
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: endorse a socialists. And so I don't envy the situation

720
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: Jeffries finds himself in. But I go back Jeffries and

721
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: Schumer should have been more hands on when Cuomo jumped

722
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: into that race and basically screwed it all up for

723
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: the for the for the mainstream wing of the Democratic Party.

724
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: The fact that they sort of look the other way

725
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: is arguably why they're in this situation they're in. But

726
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: that's a tough that's a tough position he's in politically.

727
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 3: I know.

728
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 1: I'm guessing Jeffries will end up endorsing him or voting

729
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: for him, not endorsing him. We'll see. But I do

730
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: think this is as much about his branding. What happens

731
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: to his branding as the guy who's essentially running to

732
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: be Speaker of the House in the midterms. There's a

733
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: lot of Democrats running in House races that are nervous

734
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: that he gets painted as a socialist. So I do

735
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: think that is what's, among other things, politically, what's making

736
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: it very uncomfortable for Jefferies. All right, So with that,

737
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: let's have the interview. You're going to enjoy this conversation

738
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: with two candidates running for the US Senate as pure independence. Well,

739
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: we got a fun a little different type of interview today.

740
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: Instead of one person, I have two candidates for the

741
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 1: United States Senate running in super red states running as independents,

742
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: not as major party candidates. We have Brian Bangs from

743
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: South Dakota Todd Achilles from Idaho. They've agreed to appear

744
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: together in some ways their campaigns are trying to be

745
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: helpful to each other, share best practices, try to figure

746
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 1: out what's the easiest way to raise money without getting

747
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: sucked into one of the partisan vortexas which seem to

748
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: can blow up independent candidacies in some cases. It's the

749
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 1: model is a bit of what we saw in Nebraska

750
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: with Dan Osborne. But that also But I hesitate to

751
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: throw the Dan Osborne example out there because I don't

752
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: think I think well, Brian and Todd probably share some

753
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: issues where they agree with them. They may not agree

754
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: with Dan on all issues, and everybody wants to be

755
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: seen when you're running as an independent. You're an independent

756
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: for a reason, as I like to say. And both

757
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: Brian and Todd joined me. Now, thanks for agreeing to

758
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: do this. And obviously you guys are familiar with each other,

759
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: so you're, in fact you guys pitch this, so I

760
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: appreciate it.

761
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, thanks you, Yeah, thank you us.

762
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: Look, I'm going to try to ping pong like my

763
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: job as moderator, right, my job is to make sure

764
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,439
Speaker 1: so I will do my best to do this. So Brian,

765
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: let me just start. Our simple question is going to

766
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: be the same question for both of you. But why are

767
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: you running? And why as an independent?

768
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 3: You have?

769
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 1: And you know why did you reject the major party?

770
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 2: Well, I think South Dakota's won of multiple states where

771
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: the national party politics don't serve regular folks, so the

772
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 2: regular voters being left behind. Republicans take us for granted

773
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 2: and Democrats forget we exist. And I've been a registered

774
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 2: independent for ninety seven percent of my life, which is

775
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: similar to a quarter of South Dakota's registered voters and

776
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 2: nearly half of national voters. If you're paying attention to everybody,

777
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 2: regular people like me, And obviously the independents are angry

778
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: at the DC establishment and the party system that doesn't

779
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 2: work for them, and I think justifiably so, So that's

780
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 2: why I'm running because the system hasn't worked for regular

781
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 2: folks for quite a while.

782
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: Now, you ran as a Democrat once, talk about that.

783
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: Obviously that experience soured you.

784
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 2: Why Yeah, as I said, I was a registered independent,

785
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 2: registered an independent when I was eighteen years old. Tinety

786
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 2: seven percent of my life except for that experience. I

787
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 2: was infuriated watching Americans beating law enforcement officers with polls

788
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 2: and chanting for the murder the vice president. On January sixth,

789
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 2: when the South Dakota Democratic Party was poised to give

790
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 2: now Senate Majority leader John Thune an unchallenged free pass

791
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 2: for reelection, I felt somebody needed to do something, so

792
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 2: I stepped up to run.

793
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 4: And of course I am not a.

794
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 2: Multimillionaire by any step of the words, and I am

795
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 2: a political novice. That was my first time doing anything,

796
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 2: so I thought I could only be a legitimate candidate

797
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 2: with one of the two parties, and I set aside,

798
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 2: had to set aside my independent affiliation for what I

799
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 2: thought was the pragmatic alternative to John Thune. What I learned,

800
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: which is why I shaped why I'm doing this now,

801
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 2: is that my approach in that race was I would

802
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 2: go up to people introduce myself as a candidate, and

803
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 2: I would go up to people wearing trump hats, introduce

804
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 2: myself and literally say, I'm going to guarantee with one

805
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 2: hundred percent certainty that you and I will agree on

806
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 2: at least two, but probably three, and then I'd run

807
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 2: down my list and they're not in along and typically

808
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 2: it was all three and we get to the end

809
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 2: and I'd say, so can I count on your vote November?

810
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 4: And what do you think? The first words out of

811
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 4: the mouthware which party do you belong to?

812
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 3: What do you?

813
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 2: What are you?

814
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 4: So?

815
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: What are you?

816
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,280
Speaker 2: And then you say, well, I was a lifelong independent,

817
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 2: but I'm running as a Democrat. And far, far too

818
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 2: many times I heard the I'll never vote for a

819
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 2: Democrat and that was it. You know, we'd agreed on

820
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 2: these things, and then they just said, no.

821
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: What happened to the Tom Dashel voter? What happened to

822
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: the Tim Johnson voter?

823
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 5: They have gone away?

824
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 3: I would say they.

825
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: I mean, no, I don't. I mean, that's my curiosity.

826
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: Do those same voters exist and they've just left the party,

827
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: or do they leave the state.

828
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,919
Speaker 2: I will say that the current head of the South

829
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 2: Dakota gop was a thirty year Democrat, so he was

830
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 2: a registered Democrat for thirty times longer than I was,

831
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 2: and he is now a hardcore mega individual. So the

832
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 2: voters there, I think it's summed up in the I

833
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 2: vote for the person, not the party. People still say

834
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 2: that I heard it in twenty two, but they don't

835
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 2: actually mean it, because as I said, yeah, I'll never

836
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,919
Speaker 2: vote for a Democrat. That is where those voters went.

837
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: All right, Todd, your turn? Why independent? Why not either

838
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: a Republican primary or the Democrats?

839
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I think the core thing for me, I'm

840
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 5: just I'm profoundly worried about what's happening in Congress and

841
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 5: what's happening to the country. And it doesn't matter who's

842
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 5: in power, we have the same get division and dysfunction.

843
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 5: You know, I actually served as a Democrat in the

844
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 5: Idaho Legislature for two sessions. You know, my district is

845
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 5: twenty five percent registered Dems, and I won with sixty

846
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 5: percent of the vote. And I'll tell you the number

847
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 5: one thing I heard when I was knocking on doors is, wow, town,

848
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 5: you're a better Republican than that crazy on the ballot.

849
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:55,919
Speaker 5: And when you look at Idaho, there's you know, there's

850
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 5: multiple factions of the Republican Party. There's no good definition

851
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 5: of what it means to be look and so now

852
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 5: you know, the question is what does it mean to

853
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 5: be conservative? And how do you meet the needs of

854
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 5: the state. But you know, when you look at Idaho,

855
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 5: we have this really strong tradition of being independent. So

856
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 5: when we close the primaries in twenty twelve, seventy percent

857
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 5: of Idahoans were unaffiliated with the party. Seventy percent. That

858
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 5: was the highest in the country. Noise State University does

859
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 5: an annual public policy survey, sixty five percent of Idahoans

860
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 5: said they were they were independent, or they self identified

861
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 5: as independent or I'm a Republican but I leaned independent.

862
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,720
Speaker 5: And importantly, a couple of years ago, when we passed

863
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 5: medicaid expansion, we did it with sixty one percent of

864
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 5: the vote. That was by far the highest of any

865
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 5: red state in that country. Eighty percent of accountings voted

866
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 5: for medicaid expansion. And so there's this, you know, on

867
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 5: these consensus issues, Idahoans can come together, and that's what

868
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 5: we're you know, we're trying to get back to those

869
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 5: core values by being in an and not being part

870
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 5: of the Republicans.

871
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: Is it is it specifically the dem brand on cultural

872
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: issues that made it impossible for you to talk to

873
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: that voter that agreed with medicaid expansion.

874
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.

875
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, you've had a decade of under

876
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 5: investment in the DEM Party. You know, it's the same

877
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 5: thing at South Dakota as Idaho, where the brand is

878
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 5: is you know, there's there's been no pushback, there's no

879
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 5: been no countervailing force. And and listen to DEM Party.

880
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 5: The longest serving governor in the history of Idaho was

881
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 5: Cecil Andrews.

882
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was all right time he served in the

883
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: Carter administration right as Interior Secretary.

884
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 5: Of that's exactly right. Yeah, okay, yeah, you're exactly right

885
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 5: for four terms and the DEM. But it was those

886
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,240
Speaker 5: you know, there were kind of these core Idaho values

887
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,439
Speaker 5: where everybody could get behind ces and and I think

888
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 5: the you know, the Republican Party itself, for i'll call

889
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,359
Speaker 5: the GOP leadership has really been taken over by John

890
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 5: Bircher's and some Christian nationalists. So they don't represent Idahoans.

891
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 5: You know, the DEM Party's got all of its own

892
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 5: issues in the state. They're not really representing outa ho.

893
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 5: And so if you think about both parties have kind

894
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 5: of gotten into the corners, and you look at this

895
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,720
Speaker 5: big distribution of people in the middle who feels underrepresented,

896
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 5: and that those are the folks we're trying to meet.

897
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: What's interesting is both and I might address this to

898
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: both of you because both of your states, the delegation

899
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: out of South Dakota is not really Look, John Thune

900
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: and Mike Rounds are not mega guys. They are sort

901
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: of mega adjacent and have had to figure out they're

902
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,760
Speaker 1: trying to stay you can. I watch it, and I've

903
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: interviewed Mike Rounds and John Thune a million times. I

904
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 1: know them pretty well. I think I do at least

905
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: so I know Jim Rish and Mike Simpson and Idaho

906
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: are very much what i'd call Bush Republicans. Okay, whatever,

907
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 1: that what the definition of conventional conservative Republican from the

908
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: first decade of the century. You know that's Mike Simpson, right,

909
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 1: That's that's Jim Reish. And yet, so I guess let

910
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: me ask you. I'll start with you, Brian. You know

911
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: why because in Kansas, when it was one party, basically

912
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: the split and basically the Chamber of Commerce, Republicans said,

913
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:24,720
Speaker 1: you know, we are going to go support a Democrat

914
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: for governor to create some balance. Now, we're not going

915
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: to support Democrats for federal offices, but we're going to

916
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: do that. Do you sense that the Republican Party is

917
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:36,399
Speaker 1: going to split in two? I mean where the mainstream

918
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,320
Speaker 1: sort of Mike Simpson Republicans going to go if the

919
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,879
Speaker 1: state Party keeps moving further and further to the right.

920
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 2: Well, there is a fight going on right now in

921
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 2: the state party state GP. We have I think last

922
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 2: count was four candidates for governor right now. And you've got,

923
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 2: you know, a super hardcore Mega and then you've got

924
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 2: hardcore Omega, and then you've got Dusty Johnson is currently

925
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:07,399
Speaker 2: our representative in the House who's running. And he's tried.

926
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 2: He's a former Truman scholar, He's a smart.

927
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: Guy, he's not a mega guy, and he's trying to

928
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,879
Speaker 1: fit in. He's tried just enough. Like I say, look,

929
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,439
Speaker 1: I watched Mike Grounds, I watched Thune, right, I get

930
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 1: I understand strategically what they're trying to do. The question

931
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: is to vull voters by it, right.

932
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that'll be the challenge for them coming up

933
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 2: in the primary for the governor's race of what's going

934
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 2: to happen. And then our current Attorney General, Marty Jacklee

935
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 2: is going to run for the House, and as far

936
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 2: as I know, he's the only one who's announced for that.

937
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 2: So he's got a pretty easy glide path and he

938
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 2: I don't know that he's a mega guy, hardcore mega guy.

939
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 2: He may be like softcore, but yeah, So what how

940
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 2: this going to shake out? I don't know, because they're

941
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 2: going to fight and they're gonna fight hard about this.

942
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 2: And I agree with you that John Thune and Mike

943
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 2: Rounds they're not hardcore mega and Mike Rounds has gotten

944
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 2: criticized for that before. He's been labeled to Rhino Trump

945
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 2: and fact labeled him rhino himself before changing his mind

946
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 2: later when he fell in line. So what's going to happen?

947
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 2: I don't know. I can't predict what the voters, that

948
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,399
Speaker 2: the GOP voters are going to do. But we've heard

949
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 2: from several multiple GPO voters that are unhappy with the

950
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 2: situation because this is obviously farm country. So the tariff

951
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,399
Speaker 2: situation and John Thune and Mike Rounds going like, oh no,

952
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 2: do what you want with the tariffs, even though that

953
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 2: is the legislative branch's power explicitly in the Constitution.

954
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 3: It's all you.

955
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 2: So is that hands off position going to help them?

956
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 5: I don't know.

957
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 4: This is a wild card.

958
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: Well, that's what your candidacy is kind of test. I mean,

959
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: I look, I there is to me the farm belts loosely, right,

960
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 1: and it's the states that in particular have have got

961
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people that make a living exporting excess

962
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: egg product.

963
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 3: Right.

964
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: We already feed ourselves, so we're exporting it. It's Kansas

965
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: at Nebraska, that's Iowa, that's South Dakota, that's uh, frankly,

966
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 1: you can you could say it's everybody grows soybeans, right,

967
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: it's almost every state, and we're going to have soybeans

968
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: literally just rotting. I have a feeling and not being

969
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: able to get rid of it. Todd same in Idaho

970
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: in some ways. How how have the Mike Simpsons and

971
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 1: Jim Reisch's and even the look the governor got pushed

972
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: from the right, you know kind of I'm still I

973
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: think it was Governor little who you know, was was

974
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: sort of so distraught over the mask wars that he

975
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: that he got emotional about it, like what are we doing?

976
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: Like you know, I'm not making anybody do this, but

977
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: don't criticize somebody who does. And that was like how

978
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: is that controversial? Right? And here was a very conservative

979
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 1: guy being seen as not mega enough.

980
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think that's just an indicative of where

981
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 5: the Republican Party is is being cooled and ied be

982
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 5: pulled from mainstream conservative values. And Governor Little, who I

983
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 5: spent a lot of time with Governor Little when I

984
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 5: was in legislature. I have a ton of respect for him. Uh,

985
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 5: but it's he's in a really, really hard place. And

986
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 5: I would push back on this idea of risk being

987
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 5: a Bush Republican. Frankly, I'm a better Bush Republican than

988
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 5: than Senator Rishes.

989
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 3: Uh.

990
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 5: You know, he he goes wherever he needs to go.

991
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 3: Uh.

992
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 5: He played games with public lands over the last couple

993
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 5: of months, you know, when Senator Mike Lee was trying

994
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 5: to trying to push that through. And you know, and

995
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 5: public lands are sacred in Idaho, right, I mean this

996
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 5: is hunter's Herder's.

997
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: Tree huggers around the West and Midwest on that stuff,

998
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: Like it's one of the reasons you live out there.

999
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: It's for the land, not to develop it. Frankly, that's

1000
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: exactly it.

1001
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 5: And he played games with this thing and finally finally

1002
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 5: came around the last minute. And for the ag industry, right,

1003
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 5: there's only once the strategic industry the state of Idaho,

1004
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 5: and that's egg, right, It's about seventeen percent of the economy.

1005
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 5: And these tariffs are really scary for ag not only

1006
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 5: the terriffs, but but also all the market concentration going on.

1007
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 5: It's fertilizer and seed and chemicals and everything else. I mean,

1008
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 5: that's you know, farmers and growers are getting squeezed and

1009
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 5: it's not getting better. And I think the fundamental problem

1010
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,959
Speaker 5: with Rish is that he's a career politician. And listen,

1011
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 5: the far right in idahook don't like him. The moderate

1012
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 5: Republicans don't like him. He hasn't done town halls. I've

1013
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 5: done more town halls in two weeks. And you know,

1014
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 5: we think he's done in ten years as best as

1015
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 5: we can account. And he's just lost touch with the

1016
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:44,439
Speaker 5: challenges of Ida owns. And it's, you know, it's it's

1017
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 5: tough to live in our state. Wages are low, costs

1018
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 5: are high, and everybody's getting squeezed. And you know, Jim

1019
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 5: Yish just seems to be a loop of all these

1020
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 5: these challenges.

1021
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: One of the tougher questions you're going to have to

1022
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 1: answer for that swing voter that May who's probably a

1023
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: Republican but doesn't necessarily like the direction of the Republican Party,

1024
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,479
Speaker 1: but isn't ready to be a Democrat? Okay, isn't ready

1025
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: to support the Democrats. The toughest question you're both going

1026
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 1: to be answered if you win, which party do you

1027
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 1: caucus with? That you still are going to have to

1028
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 1: make a choice. Right are you voting for Schumer? Are

1029
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 1: you voting for Thune? Right? Are you going to who

1030
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: do you organize with? And I'm going to preface this

1031
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: with a what a poster friend of mine described if

1032
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 1: it was the campaign, the Evan McMullen campaign against Mike Lee,

1033
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: where this poster is convinced that Evan McMullen said, definitively,

1034
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 1: if he wins, he'll vote he is going to vote

1035
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: with the Republicans to organize the Senate. That doesn't mean

1036
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: he'll vote with Republicans from all these issues, but he

1037
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 1: will vote that. Had he said it, it would have

1038
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: been the difference between winning or losing. U Tah's a

1039
01:00:56,080 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 1: pretty conservative state. So's Idaho. So I'll start with you.

1040
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: There's a populism to South Dakota that might might be

1041
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 1: slightly different to me than I think Idaho's electric. But

1042
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 1: I'm willing to be persuaded. But where are you on

1043
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: this question?

1044
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 2: Uh?

1045
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 3: Uh?

1046
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 5: Brian and I and Dana Nebraska and Tye in Mississippi.

1047
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 5: We've spent a lot of time talking about this. We

1048
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 5: listen to the root problem in Congress right now is

1049
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 5: the money is the corruption. And you know, we decided

1050
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 5: we're going to we're going to cauc us on our own, right,

1051
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 5: And if you just if you just look through the

1052
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 5: numbers and.

1053
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 1: How did that look? I get it, right? But those

1054
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: of us that cover that, you know, what does that mean?

1055
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: I think there's power in that person, right. I think

1056
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 1: if you guys, you know, one person can't do this,

1057
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: but four of you could, right, four or five of

1058
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 1: you could sort of say, hey, you got to work

1059
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: for our support, you know, and maybe if he gives

1060
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: me a committee chairmanship, I'll think about it.

1061
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 5: Right, And I think the mental strategies you deny a

1062
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 5: majority to either party. Right, So right now, it's fifty

1063
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 5: three Republicans, forty five Dems and two independents. You know,

1064
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 5: Dems may pick up two. Best case, you know that's

1065
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 5: probably you in a stretch. But you know, if two

1066
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 5: out of four of us win, you know, now you're

1067
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 5: you're forty nine Republicans, forty seven Dems, and four independents, right.

1068
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 3: So there's no majority.

1069
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:29,920
Speaker 5: If all four of us win, it's forty seven, forty

1070
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 5: seven and six, yeah, right, counting counting Sanders and King.

1071
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: I might count Markowski in that. I don't think. You know,

1072
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 1: she's sort of in some ways arguably just like Bernie

1073
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 1: and King, which is she's one as an independent but

1074
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 1: caucuses with one side, right, yeah.

1075
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, And you know I could from a policy standpoint,

1076
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 5: I'm incredibly aligned with Josh Holle, what he's doing around

1077
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 5: big tech, what he's doing on you know, minimum wage

1078
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 5: and other things. You know, I think there's another person

1079
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 5: where you can find some alignment on this thing. But

1080
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 5: the fundamental strategies you deny the majority to either party.

1081
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 5: You know, the independent has become the folk room. We're

1082
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 5: not beholden to these just massive money machines that both

1083
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 5: parties have built up. And then that's how you try

1084
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 5: this reform on campaign finance, on stock trading, on ending

1085
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 5: these revolving doors, all of this stuff to get the

1086
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 5: you know, all of these misincentives out of the out

1087
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 5: of the institution.

1088
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: Brian, I think your challenge is slightly greater because one

1089
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 1: thing about small states, they're aware that you need congressional

1090
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 1: leaders to make sure you don't get run over, right,

1091
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: And and I'm curious if you think Thune's leadership is

1092
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: actually an impediment to your candidacy.

1093
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 2: No, Actually, I would view it more as a benefit

1094
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 2: because when you contrast Senator Thune, who defeated majority leaders

1095
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 2: back in the day to get his seat in the Senate,

1096
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 2: Dashel delivered for South Dakota. So we have roads that

1097
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 2: were funded only because Dashel was there, and a variety

1098
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 2: of other infrastructure projects. So if that's how you judge things,

1099
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 2: then Dashell brought money in. If you look at Thune

1100
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 2: and Rounds now they are literally taking money out. So

1101
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 2: we're losing Medicaid funds, Medicare funds, and this and that

1102
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 2: and the other thing. Infrastructure funding goes away. So the

1103
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 2: point too, If that's the point, then the existence of

1104
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 2: Thune and the silence of Rounds as not advocating for

1105
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 2: things that South Dakota's want because hey, the party says

1106
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 2: we don't want to do this.

1107
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 4: That's not advocating for South Dakotins.

1108
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 2: So I am all on board with the discussion that

1109
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 2: Tie Todd and Dan and we are having about we

1110
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 2: need to change the status quo. The status quo is

1111
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 2: a product of both parties the dysfunction. So if we

1112
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:01,439
Speaker 2: have people that say, I reject both parties, and here's

1113
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 2: what we stand for, the good government reforms and a

1114
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 2: variety of other things that we commonly agree on, and say,

1115
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 2: you are not going to be able to have a majority,

1116
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 2: and you are not going to be able to have

1117
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 2: a majority, but if you want our votes, you have

1118
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 2: to earn it. And we're looking out for the regular

1119
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 2: folks that work for a living. So that is the power.

1120
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 2: That's what we're selling here. I think fundamentally is the disruption,

1121
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 2: entire disruption of how the system is dysfunctional right now

1122
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 2: in the Senate. If you get three four of us

1123
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 2: in there, things have to change because there's no majority

1124
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 2: to do whatever you want to do.

1125
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 1: I like to think there is an appetite for disruption

1126
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 1: or else Barack Obama and Donald Trump wouldn't have been

1127
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 1: president right In some ways, both of their candidacies will

1128
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 1: prepace on the Hey, are you tired of the way

1129
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 1: the system has worked. Let's try something different. And I

1130
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 1: do think it explains each of their initial successes. So

1131
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 1: I buy the disruptive aspect, but it is here's another

1132
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: thing that aligns against you, frankly, it aligns against what

1133
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 1: I'm trying to build here. It's the information ecosystem really

1134
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 1: punishes the middle and nuance and independence. Right, it's very

1135
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 1: hard for you to get your message out. So Brian,

1136
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 1: let me start with you. You know, right, the the

1137
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 1: the way algorithms work, right, you either get pushed to

1138
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 1: the left or pushed to the right.

1139
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 3: And it's.

1140
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: Is that the biggest impediment you face, almost more than

1141
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:45,040
Speaker 1: it is money or anything else. Is is the way

1142
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: the information stream works against the independent candidacies or independent media.

1143
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 2: I would say it doesn't work necessarily against independence only

1144
01:06:56,520 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 2: it works against all all candidates with out the money

1145
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 2: to just force their way in. Like on my I'm

1146
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 2: going to call it Twitter because that's what was born.

1147
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 3: Now.

1148
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: I know I did.

1149
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 2: I get these ads from the super hardcore mega candidate

1150
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 2: for governor and I've canceled them before, but he's forcing

1151
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 2: his ads in front of my eyes.

1152
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 1: Geolocation. I assume right, you're a South Dakotain.

1153
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1154
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, so.

1155
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 2: It's the way to force yourself in. So if you

1156
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 2: have the money, you can get yourself in there. The

1157
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 2: problem is that it takes money to buy getting in

1158
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 2: the information stream. So is it a problem for you

1159
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 2: if you don't have enough money? In twenty two Yeah,

1160
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 2: I was outspent fourteen to one, and I'm told that

1161
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 2: we had ads on TV, you know, right at the

1162
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 2: end when I could afford some, But I never actually

1163
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 2: saw any myself. So can't you know voters didn't They

1164
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 2: fundamentally just did not have any idea who I was

1165
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 2: or what I stood for. But when they heard who

1166
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 2: I was and what I stood for, they liked it.

1167
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 2: They just didn't know. So that is the big problem,

1168
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 2: I would say, And that's why the elections are now

1169
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 2: so expensive, because you have to spend so much to

1170
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 2: get the attention of people.

1171
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: What are you trying to do differently this time that

1172
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 1: you did in twenty twenty two.

1173
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying to have more money, So that's the making.

1174
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 2: But now we've got a different game that we've organized.

1175
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 2: I learned a lot, so and your point about the

1176
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 2: fact that Nuance is lost. I'm a former professor and

1177
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:25,480
Speaker 2: I'm an attorney by training, so I'm very much.

1178
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: You live in the gray area. You know how to

1179
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:27,839
Speaker 1: work gray.

1180
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 2: Area details where you make your money. So I want

1181
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 2: to dive into that stuff. But that's my biggest difficulty

1182
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 2: as a candidate is I have to be able to

1183
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:40,639
Speaker 2: shorten it down to a slogan. That is a problem

1184
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 2: for me because I need to talk about the details.

1185
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 2: And so we're using substack to explain policy positions that

1186
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 2: I'm putting out of like, hey, here's this background and

1187
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 2: here's why I think this.

1188
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 4: So when I put it.

1189
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 2: Up on my website where I have like a sentence

1190
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 2: or something, ideally I can have a link to the

1191
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 2: substack that says here's a whole bunch of backstory to this.

1192
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 2: But yeah, fundamentally, we need to be able to afford

1193
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 2: to put it out and force it in front of

1194
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 2: people's eyes because they're going to like what they see.

1195
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 2: I know that already from the twenty two race.

1196
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:14,680
Speaker 1: Todd, how would you describe that challenge? Right? Which is

1197
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 1: just the way the algorithms are aligned against the middle.

1198
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 1: I mean, they're just look, I think this is our problem, right,

1199
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: we're all of the incentive I have been channeling the

1200
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:31,719
Speaker 1: Milton Friedman quote, a great Milton Freedman quote that said,

1201
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 1: you can elect all the good people in the world.

1202
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:35,600
Speaker 1: If you don't have good incentive structures, they're not going

1203
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 1: to do the right thing. Bad people will do the

1204
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:41,679
Speaker 1: right thing if you have really good incentives. So there's

1205
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 1: some truth to that. Right, we have terriblest incentive structure,

1206
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:49,840
Speaker 1: and the incentives work against moderation and work against sort

1207
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 1: of if you don't fit into left right paradigm, how

1208
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 1: are you trying to be? Back at this?

1209
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 5: I guess I push back that, you know, being being

1210
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 5: moderate or being in the middle, is it? Is it

1211
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:05,679
Speaker 5: necessarily boring?

1212
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:06,639
Speaker 3: Uh?

1213
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 2: You know?

1214
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,640
Speaker 5: I I was inspired by John Hay and.

1215
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 1: I think it's quite interesting because you end up having

1216
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:16,640
Speaker 1: interesting debates in the middle when you're when you're a

1217
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:19,200
Speaker 1: bunch of people you agree with, it's boring, you know.

1218
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:22,479
Speaker 5: But just an example of this. So so in the

1219
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 5: last session of the Idaho legislature, you know, I was

1220
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:27,760
Speaker 5: I was thinking about how to highlight just some of

1221
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 5: these really dumb bills that come across and I was

1222
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 5: sort of inspired by you remember John McCaine used to

1223
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 5: have those pork awards. So there was a dumpster outside

1224
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 5: the Idaho capital and I would do my dumpster bill

1225
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 5: of the week and people love that. And you know,

1226
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 5: it was just thirty seconds. And you know, here are

1227
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 5: the three reasons why this bill is just ridiculous. And

1228
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:49,840
Speaker 5: uh and I got a ton of traffic people coming

1229
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:53,480
Speaker 5: up to me in coffee shops and in restaurants.

1230
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, just we.

1231
01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 5: Just uh you know, continued that thing, and uh, you know,

1232
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 5: and these these platforms are are difficult, but with the

1233
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 5: right message targeted in the right way, they can actually

1234
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 5: be used. But honestly, Chuck, I think the fundamental thing

1235
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 5: in the state, like I, I mean, we're only two

1236
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 5: million people, uh, is you got to get out and

1237
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 5: have the conversations and meet with people. And I you know,

1238
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:21,559
Speaker 5: I've been doing a statewide tour. We just wrapped up

1239
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 5: the third leg of this thing. I've done twenty more

1240
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:27,679
Speaker 5: than twenty town halls, traveled all over the state, I mean,

1241
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:31,720
Speaker 5: and just reinforcing what an incredible place Idaho is. But

1242
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:34,680
Speaker 5: this is it. It's these face to face conversations. It's

1243
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:37,719
Speaker 5: it's talking with local reporters and the local weekly paper

1244
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 5: and this is you know, we're building a huge volunteer organization.

1245
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,320
Speaker 5: This is how we're going to win in November twenty

1246
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 5: six it's it's face to face, it's conversations.

1247
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:55,439
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the national climate. Brian, Uh, what's your

1248
01:11:56,560 --> 01:12:00,759
Speaker 1: what's what's your diagnosis at how we got here where

1249
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:06,559
Speaker 1: political violence is now no longer shocking that it just happens.

1250
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:09,559
Speaker 1: I mean, we may have been surprised that Charlie Kirk

1251
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 1: was killed, but I wasn't shocked that political violence erupted again.

1252
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:17,960
Speaker 1: We've had it all year long. We've had it for

1253
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,799
Speaker 1: the last I would argue that we've had a decade

1254
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:26,679
Speaker 1: of escalating violent episodes. January sixth We can rattle them off,

1255
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:31,840
Speaker 1: and you can, and they're sadly pretty bipartisan. How do

1256
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:32,639
Speaker 1: you think we got here?

1257
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:36,720
Speaker 2: Well, which you were just talking about information. So we

1258
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 2: live in information silos where the logarithm pushes you to, Hey,

1259
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 2: you like that one, so you like this one. Oh,

1260
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 2: here's another one that you'll like and you didn't like

1261
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 2: these other things, so you're not going to hear anything

1262
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 2: from the other side. So it by design functions that way,

1263
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 2: and we get the anger and fear motivates people. So

1264
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 2: that's where we are. And not to dismiss the fact

1265
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:03,759
Speaker 2: that we've had increasing not political violence, but increasing violence

1266
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:08,920
Speaker 2: with guns over the last you know, several decades, but fundamentally,

1267
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 2: democracy is supposed to be a pressure relief valve for

1268
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 2: these conflicts, for these arguments that we're having. And if

1269
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:19,760
Speaker 2: we think that democracy isn't working, which is one of

1270
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 2: the things that I believe that it's the system is

1271
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:26,879
Speaker 2: corrupted by money, principally to serve some aspect of society

1272
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:29,679
Speaker 2: and leave the rest of us down here fighting for scraps.

1273
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 2: When we're fighting for scraps. You know, if you think

1274
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 2: about a pack of dogs that are hungry, they fight

1275
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:38,680
Speaker 2: each other for things, and that's what we're seeing. If

1276
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:40,840
Speaker 2: we can fix democracy, I think we can fix the

1277
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:46,680
Speaker 2: prospect of political violence and minimize it. If you can

1278
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 2: just vote and say, hey, I disagree with you, here's

1279
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:51,879
Speaker 2: my vote, and it actually matters.

1280
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:55,320
Speaker 1: Brian, what do you do with the following voter? Because

1281
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:58,320
Speaker 1: I ran into this in twenty four you know, which

1282
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 1: is the voter that says, yeah, I'm concerned about the democracy,

1283
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:05,680
Speaker 1: but I got to make ends meet first. What do

1284
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 1: you say to that voter who says I will get Yeah,

1285
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 1: I agree with you on democracy, but that feels like

1286
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:14,680
Speaker 1: a that's something I'm gonna worry about down the road.

1287
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 1: In the meantime, I got to figure out healthcare, I.

1288
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:20,679
Speaker 2: Would say those that's the same question. You've just highlighted

1289
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:22,760
Speaker 2: the same thing. Why do you have that? Why is

1290
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 2: our healthcare so expensive? Why do we pay the highest

1291
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 2: per capital colls in the world, because the system rewards that.

1292
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:31,920
Speaker 2: If you look at who the donors are for the

1293
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 2: Blue Cross Blue Shield, who they given money to, it's

1294
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 2: kind of split down the middle between the Democrats and Republicans.

1295
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, what if I tell you right, I just want

1296
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 1: to keep it well right.

1297
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:44,040
Speaker 2: The money has corrupted the system. And if you have

1298
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:46,600
Speaker 2: the politicians that are beholden to who wrote me the

1299
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 2: biggest check. And I felt this pressure in twenty two

1300
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 2: of if I got a large check, if somebody maxed

1301
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:54,840
Speaker 2: out to me, then the next time they call, I'm

1302
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 2: taking the call. Just because that's how the system works.

1303
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:01,640
Speaker 2: I'm doing a different approach time. So the bolt my

1304
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:05,000
Speaker 2: average contribution for the first quarter that I was in

1305
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 2: was twenty one dollars, and if you contrast that with

1306
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 2: Mike Rounds, he had two hundred large dollar contributors and

1307
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 2: he had eighty seven percent of his funds came from

1308
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 2: two hundred packs and the big money individuals. So the

1309
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:21,160
Speaker 2: way we do politics and the fact that this is

1310
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 2: allowed and the Supreme Court says, oh no, there's no

1311
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:27,880
Speaker 2: problem with you know, given money, you should have more

1312
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 2: money in politics. This is the problem. Why are things

1313
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:33,680
Speaker 2: bad for you? Why is healthcare so expensive because of politics?

1314
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 2: Why is there inflation that's not being addressed because of politics? This,

1315
01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 2: this is the issue. It's the same thing. We need

1316
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 2: to fix democracy to make it work.

1317
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:46,680
Speaker 1: Look, I don't disagree with you with your resc The

1318
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 1: problem is voters. I mean, I want to get to

1319
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:52,679
Speaker 1: the campaign finance thing a little bit, but in a minute,

1320
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 1: because it is one of the great conundrums when when

1321
01:15:57,600 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 1: you present voters with the data that you just present

1322
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 1: that they agree You're right. This system is messed up.

1323
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 1: But it has been really hard to make campaign finance

1324
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:08,680
Speaker 1: a voting issue, right the way people will vote on

1325
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 1: gun rights. They don't seem to vote on this on

1326
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:14,080
Speaker 1: this issue with that same fervor. But I'm going to

1327
01:16:14,120 --> 01:16:17,160
Speaker 1: put a pin in that because Todd, I'm curious where

1328
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:20,760
Speaker 1: you are in the climate issue. Yeah, I mean from

1329
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:23,360
Speaker 1: the Charlie Kirk situation and this. Look, there's a race

1330
01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 1: to blame, right and I can already feel it right

1331
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 1: each side. It's yeah, budding, Yeah, we have our crazies,

1332
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:35,759
Speaker 1: but they're worse. And you're like, that's not how we get.

1333
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:35,880
Speaker 3: Out of this.

1334
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:40,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's wrong because political and

1335
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:44,559
Speaker 5: violence is wrong. Charlie was exercising against first and themment

1336
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:47,799
Speaker 5: and not heiden, you know, or pounding away on a keyboard.

1337
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:51,280
Speaker 5: He was there in these groups having these conversations. He

1338
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 5: was doing exactly what we what we need.

1339
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 1: He said that, we said, this is how you're supposed

1340
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 1: to conduct politics, which is you go out there and

1341
01:16:57,400 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 1: make your case. You know, whether you may not like

1342
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:02,640
Speaker 1: the cases making, but that's how you're supposed to do it,

1343
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 1: not you know, not rig the system. And he wasn't

1344
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:06,760
Speaker 1: you know, trying to do that.

1345
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 5: That's that's exactly it. And you know, so much of

1346
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 5: this is where we're spending you know, where Americans are

1347
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 5: spending their hours during the day on these platforms with

1348
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:20,320
Speaker 5: these you know, algorithms that are driving outrage because that's

1349
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:23,160
Speaker 5: where the profit is, right, Uh, And I think just

1350
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:27,759
Speaker 5: you connecting, connecting these these economic issues, these reform issues.

1351
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:29,519
Speaker 5: I mean one of the things I've I've really been

1352
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:31,960
Speaker 5: highlighting on. And you know, I spent twenty years on

1353
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 5: the tech sector, working for you know, T Mobile and

1354
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:37,760
Speaker 5: Hewlett Packard through the biggest companies in the US, and

1355
01:17:37,880 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 5: you just see these these outrageously bad corporate practices going on.

1356
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:45,720
Speaker 5: And you know, I was driving back from me sir

1357
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:47,920
Speaker 5: in Idaho a couple of weeks ago, stopped off at

1358
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:51,800
Speaker 5: a Sinclair station to gas up. You know, one woman

1359
01:17:52,360 --> 01:17:56,240
Speaker 5: about my age running the convenience store late at night.

1360
01:17:56,360 --> 01:17:59,320
Speaker 5: She was working until midnight. You know, she makes eighteen

1361
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:01,280
Speaker 5: bucks an hour in a part of Idaho where you

1362
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 5: need twenty three just to live, no healthcare. And Sinclair,

1363
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 5: if you look at their twenty twenty four financials, twenty

1364
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:12,799
Speaker 5: nine billion dollars of revenue, a billion dollars of operating income,

1365
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:15,200
Speaker 5: and what do they do with that operating income? It

1366
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:17,479
Speaker 5: didn't go back to their employees and went to their

1367
01:18:17,479 --> 01:18:20,760
Speaker 5: freaking and institutional investors in the form of dividends and

1368
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:23,960
Speaker 5: share buybacks. Right, that's the kind of stuff that makes

1369
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:27,040
Speaker 5: a difference in these lives. Walmart's the same thing. Walmart's

1370
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:30,799
Speaker 5: the largest private employer in the state. And guess when

1371
01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:33,639
Speaker 5: you talk to Idahoans wore in the Medicaid expansion program, right,

1372
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:36,560
Speaker 5: they have jobs, but not enough to qualify for the

1373
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:40,120
Speaker 5: health exchange. The number one employer of the eighty thousand

1374
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:44,639
Speaker 5: Idahoans in the Health Exchange or sorry, Medicaid expansion is Walmart,

1375
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:48,719
Speaker 5: followed by McDonald's, followed by Amazon. Right, I mean it's

1376
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:51,840
Speaker 5: these and Walmart did close to three billion dollars to

1377
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:54,840
Speaker 5: share buybacks last year. That's about two thousand dollars for

1378
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 5: every one of their US employees. I mean, this kind

1379
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:01,120
Speaker 5: of stuff is just fundamentally un acceptable that we allow

1380
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:05,919
Speaker 5: corporations to push their costs onto taxpayers and the particularly

1381
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:07,799
Speaker 5: in a you know, in a small state like Idaho,

1382
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:11,479
Speaker 5: where Walmart does three billion dollars of revenue in the state.

1383
01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:15,519
Speaker 5: You know, this is the kind of stuff that guys

1384
01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:19,640
Speaker 5: like Jim Risch, they just chipped away at these guardrails

1385
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:23,439
Speaker 5: we've had on what's acceptable in the private sector over

1386
01:19:23,479 --> 01:19:26,479
Speaker 5: the last decade or two, and now we just got

1387
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 5: this where folks are running amok and you've got. You know, basically,

1388
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:34,240
Speaker 5: sixty percent of Idahoes aren't earning a livable wage of

1389
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:37,960
Speaker 5: the state chuck. And that's just flat fricking wrong, right,

1390
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:39,600
Speaker 5: we cannot tolerate that.

1391
01:19:41,479 --> 01:19:44,840
Speaker 1: And how many of those folks just and and look,

1392
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 1: this gets at to where the issues that the economic

1393
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:54,920
Speaker 1: populist issues are popular. But the this is where the

1394
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 1: culture sort of gets in the way of the conversation,

1395
01:19:56,840 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 1: doesn't it.

1396
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:01,400
Speaker 5: And this is why as an independent I can have

1397
01:20:01,439 --> 01:20:03,639
Speaker 5: a conversation with these folks in a way I never

1398
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 5: could as a debt and you know, all the corruption

1399
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:09,800
Speaker 5: the dem Party, what happened with you know, Biden running

1400
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:11,599
Speaker 5: a can and handing it over to Harris. I mean

1401
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 5: that was all. That was all just that was all unacceptable.

1402
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:17,479
Speaker 5: But you know, I tell you I was in a

1403
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:20,280
Speaker 5: rural community up in the mountains in the Idaho Panhandle

1404
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:23,400
Speaker 5: hanging out with the vets for coffee, and one of

1405
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:25,519
Speaker 5: them came up to me afterwards and he said, you

1406
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:29,200
Speaker 5: know what, I'm an extreme conservative, Like, all right, cool man,

1407
01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:32,000
Speaker 5: what does that mean? Oh? He had a great conversation,

1408
01:20:32,040 --> 01:20:34,800
Speaker 5: you know, and he's he is deeply concerned about the

1409
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:36,680
Speaker 5: national debt. I'm like, man, I'm right there with you.

1410
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:38,519
Speaker 5: That has to be a bright d lot. We can't

1411
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:40,800
Speaker 5: grow this thing. And then as we talked about it

1412
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:42,759
Speaker 5: some more, you know, the guy had a heart attack

1413
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 5: six months ago in that little rural hospital in this

1414
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:48,880
Speaker 5: town that is just barely keeping their doors open right now,

1415
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:52,120
Speaker 5: saved his life. And with the one big beautiful bill

1416
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 5: and the Medicaid cuts that are going to come out

1417
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:56,479
Speaker 5: of that, And I sat down with that hospital CEO,

1418
01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:58,720
Speaker 5: He's like, I don't know how we're going to keep

1419
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 5: the doors open out to this. I mean, this is

1420
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:03,479
Speaker 5: the kind of stuff where what the hell are you know?

1421
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 5: We've got two of the most powerful senators out of

1422
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:08,679
Speaker 5: the hundred and Idahope, the state is punching way above

1423
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:11,720
Speaker 5: its weight in terms of influence in the Senate. And

1424
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:12,559
Speaker 5: what the hell do we get?

1425
01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:13,320
Speaker 3: What do you get get?

1426
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 1: What do you get in return? Interesting, Brian, Let's go

1427
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:21,479
Speaker 1: back to the issue of campaign finances, because you know

1428
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:24,519
Speaker 1: everything you say is true and in fact, you know,

1429
01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:26,639
Speaker 1: I've been hawking a book at a friend of mine

1430
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:29,840
Speaker 1: wrote with its brother Mullin's brothers, and it was the

1431
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:33,400
Speaker 1: basically the Wolf of Case, the Wolves of k Street.

1432
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 1: It's called and it's sort of how how did we

1433
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:42,080
Speaker 1: go from essentially, you know, the rise of lobbyists, which

1434
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:45,000
Speaker 1: really didn't exist in the sixties and seventies. It just

1435
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:48,360
Speaker 1: sort of began sort of, you know, the rise of

1436
01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 1: Ralph Nader got Corporate America to say, hey, we got

1437
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 1: a response to this, and lo and behold, we got

1438
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:56,920
Speaker 1: K Street and it's a very professionalized thing. And now

1439
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:00,519
Speaker 1: we have it where it's no longer used to be

1440
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 1: a corporate entity versus a people powered entity. Now it

1441
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 1: is literally one corporate entity hiring one set of lobbyists

1442
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:10,559
Speaker 1: to fight for a certain regulation that helps their business

1443
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:15,000
Speaker 1: and screws their competitor, and another setup like we now

1444
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:17,920
Speaker 1: have K Street is just arguing about who's splitting up

1445
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 1: this piece of pie that never trickles down to the

1446
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:22,559
Speaker 1: rest of us. Like you know, I used to sort

1447
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:24,720
Speaker 1: of be like, well, the system's the system, blah blah blah.

1448
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 1: Now you're just like, we've sort of it's become too

1449
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:30,280
Speaker 1: efficient where now you need lobbyists to decide who gets

1450
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:37,360
Speaker 1: to get to rig the regulatory process. But it's always

1451
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:40,000
Speaker 1: been a challenge to get the public fired up about money.

1452
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:45,200
Speaker 1: And you know, you know, have you what are different

1453
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 1: ways you've thought of trying to send this message. I mean,

1454
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 1: you've been using it with me here tonight, Brian, But

1455
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 1: what other thoughts of you tried to get the public

1456
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:57,080
Speaker 1: to sort of be a bit more self aware about

1457
01:22:57,200 --> 01:22:58,040
Speaker 1: corporate influence.

1458
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:01,920
Speaker 2: That was actually one of the things of the when

1459
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:04,200
Speaker 2: I mentioned, hey, I'm going to guarantee will agree on

1460
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:07,240
Speaker 2: the least two, but probably three things. Money in politics

1461
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:11,080
Speaker 2: corrupts the system. Everybody literally one hundred percent across the

1462
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:11,960
Speaker 2: board agreement about it.

1463
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:16,080
Speaker 1: Yes, everybody's that's true, right, Yeah, they notice, right.

1464
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:20,839
Speaker 2: People have the elected officials wearing NASCAR jackets with patches

1465
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:22,200
Speaker 2: of who they actually.

1466
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:23,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, why not?

1467
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 1: It might help, uh talking.

1468
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:29,719
Speaker 2: To people about everybody knows it from top to bottom.

1469
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:33,679
Speaker 2: But I think the what got in the way again

1470
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:35,760
Speaker 2: I'm going to say, was the fact of I'll never

1471
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:40,639
Speaker 2: vote for a Democrat. We can have this discussion as

1472
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 2: an independent and not deal with the I'll never vote

1473
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:45,920
Speaker 2: for a Democrat. And so if I walk up to

1474
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:47,400
Speaker 2: people and say the same thing today and say well

1475
01:23:47,400 --> 01:23:50,000
Speaker 2: I'm running as an independent, I still have them, I

1476
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:53,160
Speaker 2: still have their attention. So if we can tie this

1477
01:23:53,360 --> 01:23:57,040
Speaker 2: all back to why is healthcare so expensive. Well, hey,

1478
01:23:57,040 --> 01:23:59,640
Speaker 2: look at the system. Let's look at who gives money to.

1479
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:02,600
Speaker 2: Who are they going to you know, stop that gravy train. No,

1480
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:06,599
Speaker 2: So if we can tie it back directly to why

1481
01:24:06,720 --> 01:24:07,839
Speaker 2: is this so expensive?

1482
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 5: Why is that?

1483
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:09,800
Speaker 4: What is the problem here?

1484
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:22,760
Speaker 2: Everybody implicitly knows that already.

1485
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 1: You know, my first year professionally covering politics was nineteen

1486
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:29,920
Speaker 1: ninety two, and that's the rise of Ross Perot. And

1487
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:33,720
Speaker 1: I bring him up because Ross Parot that we used

1488
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:36,720
Speaker 1: to describe it as a crescent moon, and that he

1489
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:39,840
Speaker 1: over performed in states that kind of formed a crescent moon.

1490
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:41,920
Speaker 1: It was sort of Texas that was like the bottom

1491
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:46,479
Speaker 1: of the crescent, and the right up through Minnesota right

1492
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 1: to the Great Lakes was sort of the top of

1493
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:50,400
Speaker 1: the crescent, and it went all along and he was

1494
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 1: over nineteen percent basically in all of those states. He

1495
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:58,320
Speaker 1: did really pour in the Deep South, did okay? In

1496
01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:02,920
Speaker 1: New England, Atlantic not so much. But really, look was

1497
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:05,839
Speaker 1: in the mid twenties and both Idaho and South Dakota.

1498
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:09,200
Speaker 1: I just double checked that twenty seven percent in Idaho

1499
01:25:09,240 --> 01:25:12,000
Speaker 1: and ninety two to twenty six percent in South Dakota.

1500
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:15,599
Speaker 1: Do you think those voters still exist. Todd, I'll start

1501
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:22,000
Speaker 1: with you, because that is five years ago.

1502
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:27,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I think it's I do think they do,

1503
01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:29,760
Speaker 5: because again going back to the numbers that I was

1504
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 5: just talking about, right, seventy percent on affiliate with the

1505
01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:35,120
Speaker 5: party in twenty twelve, So that's not that long ago.

1506
01:25:35,240 --> 01:25:37,360
Speaker 1: Oh way, par O came within one point of being

1507
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:40,679
Speaker 1: in second place in the state above above Bill Clinton

1508
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:41,080
Speaker 1: at the time.

1509
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:41,599
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1510
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:45,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, and uh and sixty five percent of Idahoa is

1511
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:48,480
Speaker 5: just you know this survey this year identifying as independent

1512
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:52,479
Speaker 5: or Leana Inde Pennant. So so the values are there,

1513
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:55,640
Speaker 5: and you know, I think a lot like you know,

1514
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:58,160
Speaker 5: with Brian and our part of the world here.

1515
01:25:58,520 --> 01:25:59,840
Speaker 3: I mean, you don't you.

1516
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:04,759
Speaker 5: Live in these states because you want to define yourself.

1517
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:08,800
Speaker 5: Nobody's the boss of you, and those values are I

1518
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 5: think those values are timeless. That's that's why folks come here.

1519
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:19,400
Speaker 1: Brian, the independent mantra, what is a way how do

1520
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:22,400
Speaker 1: you make the case that you're going to at times

1521
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:26,360
Speaker 1: represent you know, the Republican lean of the state and

1522
01:26:26,439 --> 01:26:30,640
Speaker 1: at times the independent lean of the state. How do

1523
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:31,400
Speaker 1: you divvy that up?

1524
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:36,479
Speaker 2: Okay, well, obviously one of the things that I've told

1525
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:38,559
Speaker 2: people is I'm running as independent because I like to

1526
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:43,280
Speaker 2: think for myself, which has always been true as a

1527
01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:46,280
Speaker 2: lifelong registered independent. The best question I think is how

1528
01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:47,800
Speaker 2: do I differ from both parties? How am I going

1529
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:50,640
Speaker 2: to represent both parties? So if we take immigration, that

1530
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:54,240
Speaker 2: has been I would say, probably the hottest issue electoral issue,

1531
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:56,680
Speaker 2: at least in twenty four and for years before that

1532
01:26:56,680 --> 01:26:58,840
Speaker 2: as well. It's one of the big ones. So the

1533
01:26:58,920 --> 01:27:03,120
Speaker 2: last comprehensive immigration reform was the same year that Maverick

1534
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:05,080
Speaker 2: and Goose first felt the need for speed. Do you

1535
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:07,720
Speaker 2: know what year that wasn't? Yes, we're going back to

1536
01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:09,599
Speaker 2: eighty seven, eighty eight.

1537
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:12,799
Speaker 4: Eighty six, eighty six, Yeah, year I get my driver's license.

1538
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:18,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, So eighty six was the last big one, and

1539
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:21,440
Speaker 2: you know top Don was on the screens today. Pragmatic

1540
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:25,200
Speaker 2: reform requires two parts, the first one being strong border

1541
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:29,519
Speaker 2: security and the second one being overhaul of the legal

1542
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:32,759
Speaker 2: immigration system. I believe to allow more people, more immigrants

1543
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:35,200
Speaker 2: in and to streamline the path to citizenship to make

1544
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:37,680
Speaker 2: it easier and you know, something that can be accomplished

1545
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:40,760
Speaker 2: with the reasonab amount of time. Now, I support both

1546
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:44,040
Speaker 2: of those components, which is not the position of either

1547
01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:47,919
Speaker 2: the Democratic or the Republican Party for different reasons. Republicans

1548
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:50,479
Speaker 2: obviously support sealing the border, that's what they're they're trying

1549
01:27:50,520 --> 01:27:54,120
Speaker 2: to do now, and they impose apparently improving the legal

1550
01:27:54,120 --> 01:27:58,919
Speaker 2: immigration process, while Democrats support improving the legal immigration process,

1551
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:01,840
Speaker 2: but they balk at stronger border security. So if we

1552
01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 2: look back, President Biden's first bill when he took office

1553
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:09,360
Speaker 2: was immigration reform, and the Democrats controlled both the Senate

1554
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:12,559
Speaker 2: and the House. Yet you heard crickets for the first

1555
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:16,799
Speaker 2: two years because the Democrats couldn't agree on border security

1556
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:20,400
Speaker 2: until they finally had to late, you know, running up

1557
01:28:20,439 --> 01:28:23,200
Speaker 2: to the election. Without a united position, why are they

1558
01:28:23,200 --> 01:28:25,760
Speaker 2: going to go talk to the Republicans about, like, Hey,

1559
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 2: here's what we're working on. Do you want to sign

1560
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:31,040
Speaker 2: on board to this? So they let it go. So

1561
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:33,880
Speaker 2: that would be one of the ways. I'm a pragmatic person.

1562
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:36,839
Speaker 2: I look at things. I'm trained this way as attorney,

1563
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:39,040
Speaker 2: I'm trained this way as an Air Force officer. You

1564
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:41,000
Speaker 2: look at things and say, hey, that didn't go the

1565
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:43,400
Speaker 2: way we wanted or we're having this outcome, how can

1566
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:46,639
Speaker 2: we tweak things to make it work properly? And if

1567
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:49,400
Speaker 2: there's a Republican plan that does that, I'm on board.

1568
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:51,559
Speaker 2: If there's a democratic plan that I think does it,

1569
01:28:52,479 --> 01:28:56,040
Speaker 2: I'm on board. So it's an issue by issue thing

1570
01:28:56,320 --> 01:28:58,680
Speaker 2: of what is going to work. And I'm going to

1571
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:01,960
Speaker 2: stay right now after forty years, I believe the trickle

1572
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:05,639
Speaker 2: down economics horse and sparrow economics, if you will, doesn't work.

1573
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 2: So despite our efforts to keep cutting our taxes for

1574
01:29:09,080 --> 01:29:12,320
Speaker 2: the billionaires and the large corporations to make us wealthy

1575
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:14,720
Speaker 2: and to pay down the debt, that's not working. So

1576
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:16,759
Speaker 2: things need to change.

1577
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:21,840
Speaker 1: Tom. One of the things that it's already been disappointing

1578
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:25,559
Speaker 1: in the wake of the Charlie kirk and assassination and

1579
01:29:25,640 --> 01:29:31,639
Speaker 1: the assassination of the Minnesota lawmakers, is that the only

1580
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:34,240
Speaker 1: complaints you here in Capitol Hill or what about security

1581
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:39,320
Speaker 1: for me? Right, rather than hey, maybe we ought to

1582
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:44,280
Speaker 1: do a special committee here of some of our best

1583
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:46,640
Speaker 1: and brightest minds and figure out how can we de

1584
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:53,640
Speaker 1: escalate and actually, you know, build a better discourse. That

1585
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:55,599
Speaker 1: the two parties don't know how to work with each

1586
01:29:55,600 --> 01:30:00,479
Speaker 1: other anymore in a horrendous way. And I think which

1587
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:05,360
Speaker 1: I guess it's yeah, yeah, And I think Chuck it's

1588
01:30:05,439 --> 01:30:06,840
Speaker 1: it's it's baked in them system.

1589
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:08,400
Speaker 5: That's part of the incentive, right.

1590
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:10,599
Speaker 3: You you make more money when.

1591
01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:14,880
Speaker 5: You say outrageous things on the floor, outrageous things in committee,

1592
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:17,680
Speaker 5: and you feed that outrage economy, and that feeds the

1593
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:20,920
Speaker 5: donor cycle. You know, when I when I'm I got

1594
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:24,160
Speaker 5: a pointed two sessions ago by by Governor little Uh

1595
01:30:24,479 --> 01:30:26,080
Speaker 5: and I you know, I showed up halfway through the

1596
01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:29,320
Speaker 5: session and I talked to my Republican colleagues and they're like, hey,

1597
01:30:29,320 --> 01:30:31,760
Speaker 5: don't even bother. I'm sorry, my Democratic College, don't even

1598
01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:34,800
Speaker 5: bother talking to that that kind of third of the room.

1599
01:30:35,160 --> 01:30:36,800
Speaker 5: You know, you're not going to get anywhere with them.

1600
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:37,800
Speaker 3: They're they're far riders.

1601
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:39,479
Speaker 5: I'm like, all right, well you've been here six years.

1602
01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 3: I've been here six days. Fine.

1603
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:45,360
Speaker 5: But last session, after I won my race, I made

1604
01:30:45,400 --> 01:30:48,080
Speaker 5: a point of just connecting with every single member of

1605
01:30:48,120 --> 01:30:52,720
Speaker 5: the chamber, finding those points of commonality, Chuck, I was

1606
01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:57,680
Speaker 5: so much more effective in that building by having those relationships,

1607
01:30:57,680 --> 01:31:00,160
Speaker 5: and you never knew where I mean, listen, I I

1608
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:04,000
Speaker 5: would argue like hell with somebody about marriage equality, and

1609
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:07,000
Speaker 5: you know, there was this far right effort overturn you know,

1610
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 5: a letter passed by the legislature calling for us to

1611
01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:13,280
Speaker 5: overturn our burgfelt and I fought that thing tooth and nail.

1612
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:16,720
Speaker 5: And the person who was a sponsor of that, guess what,

1613
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:19,920
Speaker 5: she dislikes monopoly power as much as I do, and

1614
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:23,719
Speaker 5: so she co sponsored and some others did my build

1615
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:28,000
Speaker 5: up prohibit algorithm price fixing. So and I caught a

1616
01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:32,280
Speaker 5: lot of crap from from Democrats in the state for

1617
01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:36,839
Speaker 5: even you know, for working with this woman. But like, guys,

1618
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:40,639
Speaker 5: guess what, These purity tests are the reason why you're

1619
01:31:40,640 --> 01:31:44,480
Speaker 5: irrelevant in the state. Right, find these points of commonality.

1620
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 5: You don't have to agree on one hundred percent. But

1621
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:50,679
Speaker 5: you know, I'm trying to save Idaho renters who are

1622
01:31:50,720 --> 01:31:53,320
Speaker 5: being taken advantage of. And there are other people that

1623
01:31:53,439 --> 01:31:53,960
Speaker 5: want to work.

1624
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:54,280
Speaker 3: With me on that.

1625
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:57,840
Speaker 5: I'll do that all day long. And we protected absentee voting,

1626
01:31:57,880 --> 01:32:02,240
Speaker 5: We protected citizen initiatives, we killed a bad bill to put,

1627
01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:04,280
Speaker 5: you know, make it easier to carry guns and schools.

1628
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:07,479
Speaker 5: I did all of these things on a bipartisan basis.

1629
01:32:08,439 --> 01:32:10,719
Speaker 5: And that's what you got to bring you the chamber,

1630
01:32:10,760 --> 01:32:13,599
Speaker 5: and it's and I you know, I'll echo Brian here,

1631
01:32:13,720 --> 01:32:17,320
Speaker 5: it's these financial incentives that are just sending the chamber

1632
01:32:17,360 --> 01:32:19,639
Speaker 5: in the wrong direction, and we got to break those

1633
01:32:19,680 --> 01:32:22,320
Speaker 5: financial incentives. I think that's the that's the root issue.

1634
01:32:22,479 --> 01:32:23,960
Speaker 1: All right, let me get you guys out of here

1635
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:26,040
Speaker 1: on sort of it's a little bit of a cheap stunt,

1636
01:32:26,080 --> 01:32:29,520
Speaker 1: but it's a it does I think. I think listeners

1637
01:32:29,880 --> 01:32:31,800
Speaker 1: like these things because it does help them paint a

1638
01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:34,240
Speaker 1: picture of you guys. So, Brian, I'll start with you.

1639
01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:36,519
Speaker 1: Give me give me two senators you look forward to

1640
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:41,719
Speaker 1: working with if you get elected, and then give me Yeah,

1641
01:32:41,800 --> 01:32:43,439
Speaker 1: just let me start there, and then I got one

1642
01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:44,960
Speaker 1: more for both of you too, But go ahead, give

1643
01:32:45,000 --> 01:32:46,800
Speaker 1: me give me a couple of senators you're looking forward

1644
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:48,000
Speaker 1: to working with if you get there.

1645
01:32:48,520 --> 01:32:53,479
Speaker 2: Uh, Bernie Sanders comes to mind immediately, and I would

1646
01:32:53,520 --> 01:32:57,040
Speaker 2: have said John Fetterman when he was first elected, but

1647
01:32:57,120 --> 01:32:58,040
Speaker 2: I would not say him.

1648
01:32:58,040 --> 01:33:05,920
Speaker 3: Now. Let's see, all right, you're stopped.

1649
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:08,800
Speaker 2: I'm stuck because I'm gonna have to say Republican to

1650
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:13,080
Speaker 2: be balanced here, or I could just cheap out and

1651
01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:14,160
Speaker 2: go angus king.

1652
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:19,000
Speaker 1: There here. I hear you, all right, Todd, same question.

1653
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:22,320
Speaker 1: You got what I'll do, Brian I'll make him answer

1654
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 1: the other question I have for you first, so that

1655
01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:26,519
Speaker 1: way you get you get a second. So, Todd, what's

1656
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:27,920
Speaker 1: your give me your two senators.

1657
01:33:27,560 --> 01:33:29,920
Speaker 5: That you're looking for, Elizabeth Warren and Josh Holly.

1658
01:33:30,360 --> 01:33:32,519
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, you dropped the Holly name, so I

1659
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:35,559
Speaker 1: figured figure to get there. Look, Holly and Shats are

1660
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:39,839
Speaker 1: working together on quite a few of the kids first issues.

1661
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:43,080
Speaker 1: When it comes to tech algorithms, you know, there's there's

1662
01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:45,040
Speaker 1: no doubt. All right, So you get to answer this

1663
01:33:45,080 --> 01:33:47,600
Speaker 1: next question, Tod, give me your favorite Democratic president and

1664
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:48,920
Speaker 1: your favorite Republican president.

1665
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:58,759
Speaker 5: Favorite Republican President Eisenhower, m favorite Democratic President FDR.

1666
01:33:59,439 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 1: All right, uh, mister Banks, same question to you.

1667
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:07,040
Speaker 4: I'm gonna favor yeah, the power for sure.

1668
01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:07,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1669
01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:13,000
Speaker 2: And I'm torn between the Roosevelts, Teddy Roosevelt and FDR.

1670
01:34:15,439 --> 01:34:18,519
Speaker 2: I'm going to go with tr for a personal reason

1671
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:22,080
Speaker 2: that I'll debut here, and just because you know, he's

1672
01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:24,680
Speaker 2: so connected to this area of South Dakota and what

1673
01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:25,639
Speaker 2: he stands for with.

1674
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:28,479
Speaker 1: This North Dakota wanting his library there, fighting gets a

1675
01:34:28,520 --> 01:34:31,680
Speaker 1: battle between the Dakotas. Who gets tr right, you know?

1676
01:34:33,080 --> 01:34:33,960
Speaker 3: But but on a.

1677
01:34:33,880 --> 01:34:37,799
Speaker 2: Fun fact, I learned last year that TR is a distant,

1678
01:34:37,920 --> 01:34:40,720
Speaker 2: distant cousin on my mother's side, So that's just a

1679
01:34:40,760 --> 01:34:41,360
Speaker 2: cool thing.

1680
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:44,519
Speaker 1: To So you're related to TR but not FDR. Yeah,

1681
01:34:44,640 --> 01:34:48,120
Speaker 1: Robert Lee different brands of the Eleanor side, Right, Eleanor

1682
01:34:48,280 --> 01:34:49,639
Speaker 1: was closer to TR than Yeah.

1683
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:50,240
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly.

1684
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:54,320
Speaker 2: So, uh, that's what the genealogy things that you're in

1685
01:34:54,360 --> 01:34:56,320
Speaker 2: go like, hey, you might be related to these individuals.

1686
01:34:56,640 --> 01:34:58,559
Speaker 2: And they said you might lose FDR. And then I

1687
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:00,760
Speaker 2: looked I was like, no, it's it's Roosevelt. Then that

1688
01:35:00,800 --> 01:35:03,599
Speaker 2: occurred to me, Well, if I'm alledged to Eleanor Roosevelt,

1689
01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:04,080
Speaker 2: I'm ready.

1690
01:35:04,840 --> 01:35:05,880
Speaker 4: So yeah, that's the wind.

1691
01:35:06,479 --> 01:35:09,599
Speaker 1: Well, you guys should also know this. Later this week

1692
01:35:10,200 --> 01:35:15,200
Speaker 1: is the anniversary of a farewell address by our truly

1693
01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:20,040
Speaker 1: only independent president we've ever had, and it's George Washington,

1694
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:26,479
Speaker 1: who absolutely eviscerates partisan politics in his farewell address. And

1695
01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:29,840
Speaker 1: I will say, I'm I'm not surprised you both picked Eisenhower.

1696
01:35:30,240 --> 01:35:33,160
Speaker 1: I look at Eisenhower. He's the closest thing we've ever

1697
01:35:33,320 --> 01:35:38,760
Speaker 1: had to an independent being elected president, especially since both

1698
01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:42,480
Speaker 1: parties were recruiting him. And to me, Washington and Eisenhower

1699
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:45,080
Speaker 1: sort of the are the are the North Stars for

1700
01:35:45,200 --> 01:35:49,639
Speaker 1: me in that sense too, And it's because when you've

1701
01:35:49,680 --> 01:35:53,799
Speaker 1: had to lead Americans in battle, then you see everybody

1702
01:35:53,800 --> 01:35:56,479
Speaker 1: as an American before you see him as a as

1703
01:35:56,520 --> 01:36:02,519
Speaker 1: a Republican or a Democrat. Anyway, Well, you guys go ahead.

1704
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:04,960
Speaker 5: Sorry, sorry, Chuck, I was just gonna say one comedy,

1705
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:08,960
Speaker 5: you know again, the with the four of us with Brian, Tye, Dan,

1706
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:11,760
Speaker 5: and me. I mean, we we all served, right, we

1707
01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:14,240
Speaker 5: were all probably eighteen or nineteen when we when we

1708
01:36:14,280 --> 01:36:14,800
Speaker 5: took the oath.

1709
01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:16,760
Speaker 1: You guys are all veterans, right, you guys have all

1710
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:19,160
Speaker 1: were as that doesn't you know what I mean that

1711
01:36:20,040 --> 01:36:22,360
Speaker 1: somebody coming from the military being an independent makes a

1712
01:36:22,400 --> 01:36:24,040
Speaker 1: lot more sense to me than being a partisan.

1713
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:28,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think for me, what I when we

1714
01:36:28,760 --> 01:36:31,400
Speaker 5: get on the phone together, Uh, it's great. I mean,

1715
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:34,760
Speaker 5: I we're completing each other's sentences in terms of why

1716
01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:37,559
Speaker 5: we're doing this and what we're trying to accomplish. Although

1717
01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:41,440
Speaker 5: we've got totally different backgrounds, right. You know, Brian's an attorney.

1718
01:36:41,600 --> 01:36:43,479
Speaker 5: He taught at the Air Force Academy. You know, I

1719
01:36:43,479 --> 01:36:45,280
Speaker 5: spent twenty years on a tech sector and I teach

1720
01:36:45,320 --> 01:36:51,040
Speaker 5: public policy now. But uh, it's it's those core values

1721
01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:55,800
Speaker 5: right that that I think we're all driving towards. And

1722
01:36:55,880 --> 01:36:57,920
Speaker 5: you know, I was a tank commander, right, There's four

1723
01:36:57,920 --> 01:37:00,400
Speaker 5: guys inside of a tank and if we can't along,

1724
01:37:00,479 --> 01:37:03,120
Speaker 5: we're dead, right. I mean, it's very simple.

1725
01:37:04,240 --> 01:37:08,559
Speaker 1: Get me fighting over who's right about about you know,

1726
01:37:08,880 --> 01:37:12,120
Speaker 1: gun ownership when you're in the middle of a battle exactly.

1727
01:37:12,600 --> 01:37:14,760
Speaker 5: I mean, like we all learned in the military, You've

1728
01:37:14,760 --> 01:37:17,800
Speaker 5: got a random bunch of people all thrown together, uh,

1729
01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:19,960
Speaker 5: and you got a mission to do, and you just

1730
01:37:20,160 --> 01:37:22,479
Speaker 5: you figure out how to do it. And those are

1731
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:24,519
Speaker 5: the values I think we're trying to bring bring back

1732
01:37:24,560 --> 01:37:27,320
Speaker 5: to this bring back to Congress.

1733
01:37:28,160 --> 01:37:30,719
Speaker 1: Brian, are you a Jack Rabbits fan South Dakota side.

1734
01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:33,439
Speaker 1: I love Tucker Kraba Packer fans. So Tucker Craft man,

1735
01:37:34,040 --> 01:37:36,479
Speaker 1: we just love this guy. We love this guy.

1736
01:37:36,760 --> 01:37:39,080
Speaker 2: I can't really comment on that because that would not

1737
01:37:39,080 --> 01:37:41,520
Speaker 2: be good for me. I'll just say that I originally

1738
01:37:41,680 --> 01:37:44,000
Speaker 2: I'm from Iowa originally, so I went to Iowa State

1739
01:37:44,040 --> 01:37:47,200
Speaker 2: in Iowa, Ah and then on those things.

1740
01:37:47,320 --> 01:37:50,479
Speaker 1: No you can't, I got you there and Todd but

1741
01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:54,200
Speaker 1: Boise State, man, you know, how did the University of

1742
01:37:54,240 --> 01:37:58,360
Speaker 1: Idaho allow Boise State to become the power in football

1743
01:37:58,400 --> 01:37:58,920
Speaker 1: in that state.

1744
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:03,280
Speaker 5: This is the this is the difference between North Idaho

1745
01:38:03,360 --> 01:38:07,600
Speaker 5: and Sunnadaho. But oh, interesting, it's too bad genty. We

1746
01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:10,719
Speaker 5: don't have genty anymore. And boiss day and he was incredible, buddy.

1747
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:12,439
Speaker 5: It looks like he's going to have a good career

1748
01:38:12,439 --> 01:38:13,040
Speaker 5: with the Raiders.

1749
01:38:13,400 --> 01:38:16,040
Speaker 1: It's a he's he is fun to watch. That is

1750
01:38:16,120 --> 01:38:19,840
Speaker 1: old school football. Look, Brian and Todd, I I hope

1751
01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:21,479
Speaker 1: to talk to you guys again. I mean, look, there's

1752
01:38:21,479 --> 01:38:26,920
Speaker 1: not you know, we need to disrupt the duopoly is

1753
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:29,360
Speaker 1: what got us to this place. I am you know, Look,

1754
01:38:29,360 --> 01:38:32,679
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of problems. The duopoly is pretty

1755
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:35,680
Speaker 1: much number I think the tech companies are number one

1756
01:38:35,680 --> 01:38:37,639
Speaker 1: and the duopoly is number two. But if you want

1757
01:38:37,680 --> 01:38:40,760
Speaker 1: to argue the other way, I wouldn't dissuade you. So

1758
01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:45,840
Speaker 1: good luck out there. I'll be watching, paying attention, and

1759
01:38:45,880 --> 01:38:48,760
Speaker 1: hopefully more more independent voices show up as well. So

1760
01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:50,040
Speaker 1: thank you, guys, would be good.

1761
01:38:50,439 --> 01:38:51,839
Speaker 3: Thank you. I appreciate it.

1762
01:39:05,120 --> 01:39:07,639
Speaker 1: All right. I hope you enjoyed that interview with those

1763
01:39:07,640 --> 01:39:10,120
Speaker 1: two independent candidates. So and in fact, my top five

1764
01:39:10,160 --> 01:39:14,240
Speaker 1: lists this week is on independence, and it's my top

1765
01:39:14,280 --> 01:39:19,400
Speaker 1: five list of states most likely to elect an independent

1766
01:39:19,439 --> 01:39:20,559
Speaker 1: to the Senate to.

1767
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:25,800
Speaker 2: Top five top jest top.

1768
01:39:27,840 --> 01:39:31,320
Speaker 1: Some of it is going to be based on history,

1769
01:39:31,439 --> 01:39:33,720
Speaker 1: some of it is going to be based on, you know,

1770
01:39:34,560 --> 01:39:38,479
Speaker 1: the electorate and just sort of how you know, do

1771
01:39:38,520 --> 01:39:41,680
Speaker 1: you have an electorate that thinks that is very partisan,

1772
01:39:42,439 --> 01:39:44,519
Speaker 1: Like you know, you take state of North Carolina, which

1773
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:48,080
Speaker 1: is a very evenly divided state, but it's it's sort

1774
01:39:48,120 --> 01:39:52,519
Speaker 1: of divided by polls. It's a polarized electorate. It is

1775
01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:56,559
Speaker 1: basically forty five or forty five d in a very

1776
01:39:56,560 --> 01:39:59,960
Speaker 1: small size of independence versus a place like a lack

1777
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:03,679
Speaker 1: Asca which is sort of filled with sort of this

1778
01:40:03,800 --> 01:40:07,160
Speaker 1: sort of independent you know, little left, little right, little libertarian,

1779
01:40:07,160 --> 01:40:10,960
Speaker 1: little of this. And it's just a more fluid electorate

1780
01:40:11,520 --> 01:40:13,920
Speaker 1: as it's not as partisan, it's not as hardcore. So

1781
01:40:14,439 --> 01:40:17,519
Speaker 1: my top five list of states most likely they elect

1782
01:40:17,560 --> 01:40:19,479
Speaker 1: an independent to the Senate, well, obviously I got to

1783
01:40:19,520 --> 01:40:25,400
Speaker 1: start with two states that have done it. I don't

1784
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:30,799
Speaker 1: count Bernie Sanders in this one, I know, although Vermont

1785
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:34,560
Speaker 1: has arguably had two independent one that was independent that

1786
01:40:34,760 --> 01:40:37,200
Speaker 1: caucused with Republicans. Still he switched parties and caucus with

1787
01:40:37,240 --> 01:40:41,160
Speaker 1: Democrats and Jim Jeffords and then you had Bernie. But

1788
01:40:41,240 --> 01:40:43,160
Speaker 1: in some ways I don't put Vermont there anymore. I

1789
01:40:43,200 --> 01:40:45,120
Speaker 1: think it's decidedly I think it's going to be very

1790
01:40:45,160 --> 01:40:49,759
Speaker 1: difficult for somebody. You can get elected as an independent

1791
01:40:49,800 --> 01:40:51,960
Speaker 1: if you're further to the left of the Democratic Party,

1792
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:54,040
Speaker 1: but I don't know if you can do that, you know,

1793
01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:56,120
Speaker 1: from the other way. So look, I think you have

1794
01:40:56,160 --> 01:40:58,120
Speaker 1: to put Alaska in Maine is one and two because

1795
01:40:58,120 --> 01:41:05,400
Speaker 1: they've done it, and there's their electorates are fluid enough

1796
01:41:06,200 --> 01:41:11,479
Speaker 1: that it's supportive. They've elected independence for governor, right, and

1797
01:41:11,560 --> 01:41:13,640
Speaker 1: I think that that is, you know, these are the

1798
01:41:13,680 --> 01:41:17,879
Speaker 1: states that are most ripe for non major party candidates

1799
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:21,599
Speaker 1: to have some success. Alaska and Maine obviously are too.

1800
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:24,000
Speaker 1: The next state on my list, number three is Minnesota,

1801
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:27,479
Speaker 1: And in fact, you could argue now that if you're

1802
01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:29,960
Speaker 1: right of center in Minnesota and this is going to

1803
01:41:30,000 --> 01:41:32,840
Speaker 1: actually get I got some interesting feedback about my battleground

1804
01:41:32,880 --> 01:41:35,559
Speaker 1: state list and a little bit of pushback of having

1805
01:41:36,080 --> 01:41:40,400
Speaker 1: Minnesota ranked higher than New Hampshire of states on the

1806
01:41:40,439 --> 01:41:42,920
Speaker 1: Republican side most likely to make it into the battleground

1807
01:41:43,000 --> 01:41:46,240
Speaker 1: right blue states that Republicans might be able to contest.

1808
01:41:47,000 --> 01:41:50,280
Speaker 1: And the argument is that while Minnesota is always very close,

1809
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:54,160
Speaker 1: Republicans never seem to be able to, you know, to

1810
01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:58,599
Speaker 1: crack the code. That in twenty fourteen, for instance, Al

1811
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:01,080
Speaker 1: Frankin's reelection year, he won ten points and that was

1812
01:42:01,120 --> 01:42:04,679
Speaker 1: a great Republican year. So I Republicans couldn't make Franklin

1813
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:09,920
Speaker 1: sweat in twenty fourteen. Then the argument goes that this

1814
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:11,840
Speaker 1: is a this is a much harder state. You know

1815
01:42:11,880 --> 01:42:15,280
Speaker 1: that there's a hard ceiling on the Republicans, and I

1816
01:42:15,439 --> 01:42:18,719
Speaker 1: you know, it's an old hotline buddy that was pushing

1817
01:42:18,760 --> 01:42:21,880
Speaker 1: back on me. And I think my buddy Quinn is right. Quinn,

1818
01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:23,879
Speaker 1: I'm throwing I'm giving I'm throwing you at this bone.

1819
01:42:24,000 --> 01:42:27,640
Speaker 1: I do agree New Hampshire probably it should be New

1820
01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:30,479
Speaker 1: Hampshire over Minnesota. I still think there's an opportunity there

1821
01:42:30,479 --> 01:42:32,760
Speaker 1: in Minnesota. But I think you're right. I think the

1822
01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:35,360
Speaker 1: track record of New Hampshire recently they just elected a

1823
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:38,920
Speaker 1: Republican governor. It's been a long time since Minnesota's elected

1824
01:42:38,960 --> 01:42:42,120
Speaker 1: a statewide Republican has been at least over a decade.

1825
01:42:44,600 --> 01:42:46,439
Speaker 1: I think, I think you make a compelling case at

1826
01:42:46,439 --> 01:42:49,840
Speaker 1: New Hampshire should be ranked higher than Minnesota. So Alaska one,

1827
01:42:50,040 --> 01:42:53,200
Speaker 1: Main two, Minnesota three, and my next two are sun

1828
01:42:53,240 --> 01:42:59,759
Speaker 1: Belt states. Arizona, who arguably had a couple of independent

1829
01:43:00,040 --> 01:43:02,520
Speaker 1: acting senators even though they didn't get elected as independents,

1830
01:43:02,520 --> 01:43:06,479
Speaker 1: and John McCain and Kirsten Cinema. And there's something about

1831
01:43:06,479 --> 01:43:09,160
Speaker 1: it's electorate, right, there's a there's a there's a it's

1832
01:43:09,200 --> 01:43:14,160
Speaker 1: a state that has a huge independent voter registration. And

1833
01:43:14,200 --> 01:43:18,719
Speaker 1: when you're a transient state, right that where a majority

1834
01:43:18,760 --> 01:43:22,599
Speaker 1: of the voters weren't born in that state, that means

1835
01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:26,599
Speaker 1: you don't have as strong a ties on partisanship as much.

1836
01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:29,080
Speaker 1: And I think, and so we should give away what

1837
01:43:29,120 --> 01:43:32,679
Speaker 1: my number five state is of a chance electing independent.

1838
01:43:32,720 --> 01:43:36,240
Speaker 1: That's Florida. Florida also is a huge growing no party

1839
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:42,679
Speaker 1: UH registration vote, and I think the opportunity and ballot

1840
01:43:42,680 --> 01:43:46,960
Speaker 1: access isn't very difficult. Ditto in Arizona. That also matters here, right,

1841
01:43:47,000 --> 01:43:50,000
Speaker 1: how difficult is ballot access to get on there? You know,

1842
01:43:50,080 --> 01:43:54,599
Speaker 1: Texas is extraordinarily hard to run as an independent, And

1843
01:43:54,760 --> 01:43:59,000
Speaker 1: even though you in theory. Texas is the type of

1844
01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:01,880
Speaker 1: electorate that maybe could be supportive of it. I'm skeptical

1845
01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:05,240
Speaker 1: of it. So my top five this week, top five

1846
01:44:05,280 --> 01:44:09,000
Speaker 1: states most likely with electorates it would be open to

1847
01:44:09,040 --> 01:44:12,519
Speaker 1: electing an independent. And you could actually picture it happening.

1848
01:44:13,040 --> 01:44:15,920
Speaker 1: Two places they've already happened Alaska in Maine right with

1849
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:21,360
Speaker 1: Lisa Murkowski and and Angus King both did get elected

1850
01:44:21,400 --> 01:44:23,320
Speaker 1: as independents. Now they caut us with one side or

1851
01:44:23,360 --> 01:44:26,519
Speaker 1: the other, but they're I think, and they both have

1852
01:44:26,680 --> 01:44:31,320
Speaker 1: elected independent governors, So I think there is a tradition there. Minnesota, right,

1853
01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:35,000
Speaker 1: they've they've had some you know, this is a party

1854
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:38,080
Speaker 1: that even the Democratic Party is not named. It's the

1855
01:44:38,080 --> 01:44:40,760
Speaker 1: Democratic Farm Labor Party. It was a coalition party. There

1856
01:44:40,840 --> 01:44:42,600
Speaker 1: used to be the Farm Labor and then the Democrats

1857
01:44:42,600 --> 01:44:44,960
Speaker 1: and they merged. And in fact that back in the

1858
01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:47,360
Speaker 1: day the Minnesota Republican Party was referred to as the

1859
01:44:47,360 --> 01:44:51,080
Speaker 1: Independent Republican Party. There was almost an over emphasis on

1860
01:44:51,120 --> 01:44:56,680
Speaker 1: the word independent and less so unrepublican. So Minnesota number three,

1861
01:44:56,840 --> 01:45:02,200
Speaker 1: number four, Arizona, and number five Florida. Other states that

1862
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:06,639
Speaker 1: I contemplated Nebraska, I do think the fact that they

1863
01:45:06,640 --> 01:45:10,360
Speaker 1: have a unit cameral legislature where you do not run

1864
01:45:10,479 --> 01:45:14,880
Speaker 1: or hold office by party. Does create an electorate that

1865
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:18,120
Speaker 1: is comfortable with candidates for office that don't associate with

1866
01:45:18,160 --> 01:45:21,480
Speaker 1: a major party. The fact that their unit camera legislature

1867
01:45:21,479 --> 01:45:23,479
Speaker 1: works that way, I think does. I think it does

1868
01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:28,840
Speaker 1: help explain why Osborne, Dan Osborne, who's running again, has

1869
01:45:29,240 --> 01:45:33,960
Speaker 1: gotten into the forties. On that front, Kansas, I think

1870
01:45:34,040 --> 01:45:37,400
Speaker 1: there's something there. I think the Democratic brand is probably

1871
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:40,280
Speaker 1: not quite strong enough to elect a senator, but an

1872
01:45:40,280 --> 01:45:44,280
Speaker 1: independent that leaned to the left but had a few

1873
01:45:44,360 --> 01:45:47,639
Speaker 1: things that were appealing to right leaning independence, you could

1874
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:51,880
Speaker 1: see it. I put Idaho, South Dakota down here as well,

1875
01:45:51,920 --> 01:45:54,719
Speaker 1: because we're going to find out, right, I do think

1876
01:45:55,360 --> 01:45:59,800
Speaker 1: you're going to have a little better in general running

1877
01:45:59,800 --> 01:46:02,360
Speaker 1: again against the two major parties, as there's usually a

1878
01:46:02,400 --> 01:46:05,439
Speaker 1: bit more of an appetite for it out west than

1879
01:46:05,520 --> 01:46:10,840
Speaker 1: there is out east here, particularly in some of the

1880
01:46:11,040 --> 01:46:13,200
Speaker 1: in some of the states that have been around a

1881
01:46:13,200 --> 01:46:17,400
Speaker 1: while that have of you know that have that have

1882
01:46:17,479 --> 01:46:24,959
Speaker 1: certainly have very very very strong state and local political parties.

1883
01:46:25,280 --> 01:46:27,320
Speaker 1: All Right, so there's my top five lists. With that,

1884
01:46:27,479 --> 01:46:28,559
Speaker 1: Let's do a few questions.

1885
01:46:28,720 --> 01:46:29,760
Speaker 5: Ask Chuck.

1886
01:46:34,680 --> 01:46:37,200
Speaker 1: All right. First question comes from Greg al and he writes,

1887
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:38,840
Speaker 1: thanks for the show. I want to ask about your

1888
01:46:38,840 --> 01:46:41,599
Speaker 1: call for a politician to run as a uniter. It's

1889
01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:43,760
Speaker 1: what the country needs, but is it possible as a

1890
01:46:43,800 --> 01:46:46,280
Speaker 1: moderate who has voted for both parties less presidential Canada.

1891
01:46:46,280 --> 01:46:49,280
Speaker 1: I recall running as a uniter is President Obama, who

1892
01:46:49,360 --> 01:46:52,080
Speaker 1: came to prominence with his unifying One America speech back

1893
01:46:52,120 --> 01:46:54,599
Speaker 1: in two thousand and four. However, we call family members

1894
01:46:54,640 --> 01:46:57,200
Speaker 1: who perceived Obama as a divisive radical who hated capitalists

1895
01:46:57,200 --> 01:46:59,760
Speaker 1: and Americans. In the Obama years, I also noticed that

1896
01:47:00,080 --> 01:47:03,280
Speaker 1: compromise and unity were tough promises to deliver on. Even

1897
01:47:03,320 --> 01:47:06,120
Speaker 1: if a politician followed through with concessions, the opposing party

1898
01:47:06,120 --> 01:47:09,400
Speaker 1: could force failure by refusing to cooperate, even when offered

1899
01:47:09,400 --> 01:47:15,200
Speaker 1: policies they previously supported. I hope you can share some optimism. Well, look,

1900
01:47:15,200 --> 01:47:18,000
Speaker 1: I mean this is why I don't think either either party.

1901
01:47:18,040 --> 01:47:20,200
Speaker 1: I think this has to this almost has to be

1902
01:47:20,680 --> 01:47:23,880
Speaker 1: a pirate type of situation where you just sort of

1903
01:47:24,040 --> 01:47:27,519
Speaker 1: where you have an independent that calls time out. You know,

1904
01:47:27,600 --> 01:47:30,080
Speaker 1: you guys have lost your privileges to lead. You need

1905
01:47:30,120 --> 01:47:33,200
Speaker 1: to learn how to lead it's sort of it was

1906
01:47:33,280 --> 01:47:35,720
Speaker 1: the It was how Jesse Ventura won his election in

1907
01:47:35,800 --> 01:47:39,920
Speaker 1: ninety eight. He basically turned the two parties into tweetled

1908
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:44,759
Speaker 1: the and tweedled dumb, and it gained quick traction. It

1909
01:47:44,439 --> 01:47:47,200
Speaker 1: was it was actually a short campaign. He was polling

1910
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:49,560
Speaker 1: in the high single digits, low double digits for the

1911
01:47:49,640 --> 01:47:54,120
Speaker 1: longest time they have a debate. He's an outsized charismatic figure.

1912
01:47:54,760 --> 01:47:57,519
Speaker 1: The two nominees, I think it was I think, if

1913
01:47:57,880 --> 01:48:00,679
Speaker 1: memory serves, it was Norm Coleman future you a Senator

1914
01:48:01,120 --> 01:48:07,960
Speaker 1: and Skip Humphrey, the son of Hubert Humphrey, and they

1915
01:48:08,120 --> 01:48:12,280
Speaker 1: just they came across a stale compared to the charismatic

1916
01:48:12,280 --> 01:48:17,559
Speaker 1: ex wrestler right and former actor you know who's uttered

1917
01:48:17,600 --> 01:48:19,800
Speaker 1: one of my favorite movie lines of all time, I

1918
01:48:19,880 --> 01:48:24,519
Speaker 1: don't got time to bleed from the first Predator, which

1919
01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:27,519
Speaker 1: I think he used in his campaign ads. I think

1920
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:30,519
Speaker 1: it was the title of his memoir, of his political memoir.

1921
01:48:31,000 --> 01:48:34,320
Speaker 1: But the point is is that he didn't run as

1922
01:48:34,360 --> 01:48:36,360
Speaker 1: saying this is you know. Yes, it was sort of

1923
01:48:36,400 --> 01:48:39,519
Speaker 1: with the Pero Reform Party at the time, but in

1924
01:48:39,560 --> 01:48:42,160
Speaker 1: some ways it was, Hey, I want to send a

1925
01:48:42,200 --> 01:48:46,920
Speaker 1: message these two parties and just sober up. And I

1926
01:48:46,960 --> 01:48:50,679
Speaker 1: think what you outline here, the inability for one party

1927
01:48:50,720 --> 01:48:53,439
Speaker 1: to concede anything to the other party right now, it's

1928
01:48:53,520 --> 01:48:55,320
Speaker 1: not going to happen. If you want to know how

1929
01:48:55,439 --> 01:48:59,280
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties by partisanship happened. It happened because Ross Perot

1930
01:48:59,439 --> 01:49:05,479
Speaker 1: essentially threatened his candidacy, threatened the success of both parties

1931
01:49:05,479 --> 01:49:10,280
Speaker 1: at one point or another, and so it almost served

1932
01:49:11,040 --> 01:49:17,840
Speaker 1: as a as a force, as a mechanism to force bipartisanship.

1933
01:49:21,960 --> 01:49:27,040
Speaker 1: You know, the nineties recipe for bipartisanship also had one

1934
01:49:27,080 --> 01:49:30,400
Speaker 1: party controlling Congress, one party controlling the presidency. In the

1935
01:49:30,439 --> 01:49:32,880
Speaker 1: twenty first century, the handful of times we've had that

1936
01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:36,519
Speaker 1: it didn't, it didn't. It didn't lead to in many

1937
01:49:36,640 --> 01:49:40,479
Speaker 1: bipartisan successes. And in some ways I think this is

1938
01:49:41,080 --> 01:49:43,840
Speaker 1: thanks to the Internet age to be fair filthy, Frank,

1939
01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:47,559
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's what I think has done it.

1940
01:49:47,640 --> 01:49:51,400
Speaker 1: I think that in the you know where anytime you

1941
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:55,360
Speaker 1: quote helped the other party, it becomes a problem for

1942
01:49:55,479 --> 01:49:58,360
Speaker 1: the base and they amplify it and they get everybody

1943
01:49:58,400 --> 01:50:01,400
Speaker 1: fired up, and they threatened primary h challenges and all

1944
01:50:01,439 --> 01:50:08,120
Speaker 1: of a sudden, this wayward moderate r moderate d has

1945
01:50:08,200 --> 01:50:12,800
Speaker 1: been tamed by the outrages of the base. We saw

1946
01:50:12,840 --> 01:50:15,439
Speaker 1: a version of that on the Republican side with Joni

1947
01:50:15,520 --> 01:50:18,880
Speaker 1: Ernst and the confirmation of Pete Hegseth right, she was

1948
01:50:18,880 --> 01:50:24,519
Speaker 1: basically shamed and threatened and harassed until she agreed to

1949
01:50:24,520 --> 01:50:28,920
Speaker 1: do it. In the pre internet days, haig Seth never

1950
01:50:29,000 --> 01:50:31,360
Speaker 1: makes it. Eg Seth probably doesn't even even get out

1951
01:50:31,360 --> 01:50:35,720
Speaker 1: of committee in the pre internet days. But he saidially

1952
01:50:36,520 --> 01:50:39,400
Speaker 1: making it public and forcing it that way did so.

1953
01:50:40,680 --> 01:50:42,800
Speaker 1: I concur with you that it's not going to come

1954
01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:45,200
Speaker 1: from one of the two major parties and that they

1955
01:50:45,240 --> 01:50:48,600
Speaker 1: would successfully do it. I do think a term with

1956
01:50:48,680 --> 01:50:57,040
Speaker 1: an independent basically just highlighting the fact that both parties

1957
01:50:57,040 --> 01:50:59,960
Speaker 1: have failed us and have helped tear this country apart,

1958
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:07,719
Speaker 1: would could could serve as that as sort of return,

1959
01:51:07,880 --> 01:51:10,519
Speaker 1: sort of Like I said, I refer to sobering up

1960
01:51:12,200 --> 01:51:17,719
Speaker 1: the two political parties. Next question comes from Lincoln from Columbus, Ohio,

1961
01:51:17,880 --> 01:51:20,519
Speaker 1: but he makes it clear he's not a Buckeye fan. Well,

1962
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:24,880
Speaker 1: that's why I'm taking your question. Lincoln. By the way,

1963
01:51:24,920 --> 01:51:27,880
Speaker 1: I love it Lincoln from Columbus. Maybe I could meet

1964
01:51:27,880 --> 01:51:32,760
Speaker 1: Columbus from Lincoln anyway, Hey, Chuck La Cheeseri if you

1965
01:51:32,800 --> 01:51:35,839
Speaker 1: know you know I love the todcast and appreciate the commentary,

1966
01:51:35,840 --> 01:51:38,080
Speaker 1: extended interviews and deep dives into all things politics and

1967
01:51:38,080 --> 01:51:40,360
Speaker 1: politics adjacent news stories. You're right, we need more in

1968
01:51:40,400 --> 01:51:42,479
Speaker 1: depth conversations and fewer sound bitdes. I have a question

1969
01:51:42,479 --> 01:51:46,320
Speaker 1: about Senate and House hearings. Do the people testifying have

1970
01:51:46,360 --> 01:51:48,880
Speaker 1: an idea of the questions in advance? Obviously this would

1971
01:51:48,920 --> 01:51:51,400
Speaker 1: be more partisan, because when RFK testified, I can't imagine

1972
01:51:51,439 --> 01:51:54,520
Speaker 1: Democrats would provide their questions, but I can see Republicans

1973
01:51:54,560 --> 01:51:56,200
Speaker 1: trying to curry favor with the White House, if not

1974
01:51:56,240 --> 01:52:00,160
Speaker 1: overtly providing questions in advance, perhaps in a meaning mentioning

1975
01:52:00,400 --> 01:52:02,400
Speaker 1: that a question like that may come up with a

1976
01:52:02,439 --> 01:52:04,439
Speaker 1: link and a not Thanks for the work and information

1977
01:52:04,479 --> 01:52:05,960
Speaker 1: to look forward to the mornings when I see the

1978
01:52:06,000 --> 01:52:09,080
Speaker 1: pod drop, Well, it's great to hear. Thanks Lincoln, appreciate that.

1979
01:52:11,560 --> 01:52:15,200
Speaker 1: On hearings, you know, it depends. There's some people do

1980
01:52:15,320 --> 01:52:24,280
Speaker 1: mock hearings. A friendly hearing, right your friendly side, you

1981
01:52:24,360 --> 01:52:27,920
Speaker 1: will know, you know, you might know they might have Hey,

1982
01:52:27,960 --> 01:52:30,840
Speaker 1: I'll uh, I know you're going to get attacked for

1983
01:52:30,880 --> 01:52:32,920
Speaker 1: this issue. I'll be able to ask you this question

1984
01:52:32,960 --> 01:52:36,400
Speaker 1: on follow up. So the point is the answer is yes, okay,

1985
01:52:37,320 --> 01:52:42,160
Speaker 1: what you suspect is true partisan. You know, anybody that

1986
01:52:42,200 --> 01:52:46,240
Speaker 1: is that is favorable to the person testifying, If that

1987
01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:50,320
Speaker 1: person is in government and has a relationship, that likely

1988
01:52:50,320 --> 01:52:53,839
Speaker 1: means they have some sort of professional relationship with that senator,

1989
01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:55,920
Speaker 1: with that Senate staffer, with that House member, with that

1990
01:52:55,960 --> 01:53:00,599
Speaker 1: House staffer. So in that sense, yes, they're told, hey,

1991
01:53:00,600 --> 01:53:02,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask about this, this, and this if

1992
01:53:02,200 --> 01:53:04,920
Speaker 1: they're friendly. Obviously you don't you don't get the questions

1993
01:53:04,920 --> 01:53:09,160
Speaker 1: in advance of the others. But you know, if you

1994
01:53:09,240 --> 01:53:11,559
Speaker 1: don't know what's coming, you're not very good at your job,

1995
01:53:12,640 --> 01:53:15,240
Speaker 1: or you don't have a staff that's very bright about this.

1996
01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:19,400
Speaker 1: I've never watched one of these congressional hearings and been

1997
01:53:19,439 --> 01:53:23,599
Speaker 1: surprised by a question. Right, Sometimes you might get surprised

1998
01:53:23,600 --> 01:53:26,799
Speaker 1: if it's like arcane, it'll be like oh, and again,

1999
01:53:27,320 --> 01:53:29,720
Speaker 1: when you're surprised as a person testifying, it means your

2000
01:53:29,720 --> 01:53:33,120
Speaker 1: staffers blew it. You know, a good staffer should know, Hey,

2001
01:53:33,160 --> 01:53:36,559
Speaker 1: Senator Schmengi is obsessed with this one arcane issue. No

2002
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:38,479
Speaker 1: one else is going to ask about it. But you

2003
01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:40,960
Speaker 1: may be asked about it from him or her, you

2004
01:53:41,040 --> 01:53:47,640
Speaker 1: better know it. But no, your suspicion on essentially partisans

2005
01:53:47,640 --> 01:53:52,400
Speaker 1: helping helping the friendlies is one hundred percent trough. There's

2006
01:53:52,439 --> 01:53:54,200
Speaker 1: always by the way it happens in the White House

2007
01:53:54,200 --> 01:53:57,840
Speaker 1: press room, there are certain reporters that are essentially used

2008
01:53:57,880 --> 01:54:01,400
Speaker 1: by the person at the podium. Maybe they don't know

2009
01:54:01,439 --> 01:54:02,920
Speaker 1: the question that's going to be asked, but they know

2010
01:54:02,960 --> 01:54:04,760
Speaker 1: it's not going to be antagonistic, and they go to

2011
01:54:04,800 --> 01:54:08,880
Speaker 1: them as almost like a break if they're if they're

2012
01:54:08,880 --> 01:54:14,240
Speaker 1: getting attacked. And every press secretary has had those in

2013
01:54:14,280 --> 01:54:19,040
Speaker 1: their back pocket, this one has more friendlies than most

2014
01:54:19,080 --> 01:54:23,320
Speaker 1: that I've noticed. Next question, boy, you absolutely nail it

2015
01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:26,120
Speaker 1: in your nine to fifteen commentary. Politics should be about

2016
01:54:26,120 --> 01:54:27,680
Speaker 1: I believe in A and you believe in Z, and

2017
01:54:27,720 --> 01:54:31,120
Speaker 1: we meet somewhere around l M n OP. But Congress

2018
01:54:31,120 --> 01:54:33,280
Speaker 1: now seems allergic to compromise, acting as a blank check

2019
01:54:33,280 --> 01:54:36,080
Speaker 1: for Trump's agenda. I also agree that social media fuels division.

2020
01:54:36,080 --> 01:54:38,440
Speaker 1: I even deactivated my own accounts after hearing every network

2021
01:54:38,440 --> 01:54:41,960
Speaker 1: link the latest shooting to online extremism. Podcasts can be

2022
01:54:42,040 --> 01:54:45,600
Speaker 1: similarly insular, Yes they can, though yours stands out for

2023
01:54:45,800 --> 01:54:49,560
Speaker 1: presenting multiple viewpoints, which I really appreciate. Michael C. From Douglasville, Georgia, Well,

2024
01:54:49,560 --> 01:54:52,520
Speaker 1: I appreciate you noticing that. It's what I'm trying to do.

2025
01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:58,240
Speaker 1: That's a frustration of the sort of the architecture that

2026
01:54:58,280 --> 01:55:00,760
Speaker 1: the tech companies have created for those of us in

2027
01:55:00,760 --> 01:55:07,320
Speaker 1: this independent space. I you know, I appreciate substack. You

2028
01:55:07,320 --> 01:55:10,040
Speaker 1: can sort of curate yourself. They don't feel I don't

2029
01:55:10,080 --> 01:55:12,240
Speaker 1: feel like they use algorithms to push stuff on me.

2030
01:55:12,320 --> 01:55:15,800
Speaker 1: It's you're you only get pushed stuff from the actual

2031
01:55:16,080 --> 01:55:19,840
Speaker 1: publisher of the content or people that you know. If

2032
01:55:19,880 --> 01:55:23,000
Speaker 1: you decide to subscribe, then you're asked to to to

2033
01:55:22,640 --> 01:55:26,520
Speaker 1: spread the word. It's a it's a it's a healthier

2034
01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:32,120
Speaker 1: way to do it on that front. But the you know,

2035
01:55:32,240 --> 01:55:36,160
Speaker 1: that's the problem, right And you see, I don't want

2036
01:55:36,160 --> 01:55:39,879
Speaker 1: to build an audience where I feel like I'm captured

2037
01:55:39,880 --> 01:55:44,800
Speaker 1: by the audience. Now, I just I I am a

2038
01:55:44,840 --> 01:55:50,000
Speaker 1: podcast listener because I'm trying to get more information. I

2039
01:55:50,120 --> 01:55:52,280
Speaker 1: I sort of listened to three types of podcasts. One

2040
01:55:52,360 --> 01:55:56,040
Speaker 1: is deep dives on history, one is on economic and

2041
01:55:56,120 --> 01:55:59,360
Speaker 1: a bunch of sports. Not Gonna lie uh, maybe one

2042
01:55:59,400 --> 01:56:03,480
Speaker 1: or two. And it's gambling. A few in sports cards,

2043
01:56:04,680 --> 01:56:07,640
Speaker 1: but quite a few in history on that stuff. And

2044
01:56:07,720 --> 01:56:12,120
Speaker 1: I want information over commentary, right, I don't necessarily want

2045
01:56:13,200 --> 01:56:15,560
Speaker 1: left right commentary. I can read the left right commentary

2046
01:56:16,520 --> 01:56:19,640
Speaker 1: on that front. But I do think that, you know,

2047
01:56:20,040 --> 01:56:23,040
Speaker 1: I'm very mindful. I don't want I don't want to.

2048
01:56:23,400 --> 01:56:25,440
Speaker 1: I don't want an audience. I don't want to feel

2049
01:56:25,440 --> 01:56:28,560
Speaker 1: like I've been captured by my subscribers or my audience,

2050
01:56:28,640 --> 01:56:30,360
Speaker 1: or however you want to look at it. I think

2051
01:56:30,400 --> 01:56:32,360
Speaker 1: that you've seen that. I feel like I see that

2052
01:56:32,400 --> 01:56:35,480
Speaker 1: in the New York Times, you know, when they chased

2053
01:56:35,520 --> 01:56:38,040
Speaker 1: away James Bennett from being editorial page editor of the

2054
01:56:38,040 --> 01:56:42,560
Speaker 1: opinion section. He didn't do anything wrong, he didn't he

2055
01:56:42,560 --> 01:56:45,440
Speaker 1: didn't do anything fireable by the editors, but there was

2056
01:56:45,440 --> 01:56:48,560
Speaker 1: a revolt among subscribers, and they were concerned about losing

2057
01:56:48,680 --> 01:56:51,360
Speaker 1: subscribers and losing it. And it seems like he was

2058
01:56:51,400 --> 01:56:56,360
Speaker 1: sacrificed for that. Well, when you make a decision based

2059
01:56:56,400 --> 01:57:00,800
Speaker 1: on viewership or who's watching. Look, I don't want to

2060
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:07,720
Speaker 1: get into too many details, but you know that these

2061
01:57:07,800 --> 01:57:10,960
Speaker 1: were these were some of the struggles when when when

2062
01:57:11,000 --> 01:57:15,880
Speaker 1: I was trying to do a a a non ideological

2063
01:57:17,200 --> 01:57:20,920
Speaker 1: partisan show on politics on a cable channel that had

2064
01:57:20,920 --> 01:57:25,200
Speaker 1: a history of being partisan, and it was the audience.

2065
01:57:25,440 --> 01:57:27,720
Speaker 1: The audience was uncomfortable with it. They didn't like when

2066
01:57:27,720 --> 01:57:30,040
Speaker 1: I would put Republicans on and it would become a thing,

2067
01:57:30,200 --> 01:57:33,240
Speaker 1: and I didn't like that I was being used by

2068
01:57:33,240 --> 01:57:35,200
Speaker 1: the right at times to try to do it was

2069
01:57:35,280 --> 01:57:38,040
Speaker 1: just a mess. But it's what happens when you have

2070
01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:41,120
Speaker 1: audience capture, and it is something I'm trying really hard

2071
01:57:41,160 --> 01:57:44,120
Speaker 1: not to have audience capture. I appreciate you noticing it,

2072
01:57:44,200 --> 01:57:48,000
Speaker 1: and I'm trying, so thank you, and we'll spread the word.

2073
01:57:49,120 --> 01:57:52,000
Speaker 1: Uh all right, I'm gonna sneak in at least one

2074
01:57:52,000 --> 01:57:54,440
Speaker 1: more question here. I've got I've got a little I'm

2075
01:57:54,480 --> 01:57:57,360
Speaker 1: on the clock before taping, so I want to see

2076
01:57:57,360 --> 01:57:59,360
Speaker 1: how mannyn't get in. James E writes, Is it me

2077
01:57:59,440 --> 01:58:01,640
Speaker 1: or does it seem the right are being opportunity to

2078
01:58:01,760 --> 01:58:04,640
Speaker 1: utilizing their friend's death as a reason to go after

2079
01:58:04,680 --> 01:58:07,640
Speaker 1: the left. I don't think it's just you. If you

2080
01:58:07,680 --> 01:58:11,960
Speaker 1: hear my commentary top, that's I think exactly what's happening.

2081
01:58:12,200 --> 01:58:13,680
Speaker 1: Seems like such an odd time to go on the

2082
01:58:13,720 --> 01:58:16,200
Speaker 1: attack rather than to mourn a supposed friend. Have there

2083
01:58:16,240 --> 01:58:18,400
Speaker 1: been other instances in the past of a political death

2084
01:58:18,440 --> 01:58:20,840
Speaker 1: or assassination being used to attack the other side so

2085
01:58:20,840 --> 01:58:24,640
Speaker 1: soon after the incident. Well, here's the thing. In the

2086
01:58:24,680 --> 01:58:31,880
Speaker 1: Internet era, we see it all, you know, and it

2087
01:58:31,920 --> 01:58:35,560
Speaker 1: gets It's something that I think social media also provides

2088
01:58:35,640 --> 01:58:38,680
Speaker 1: us with that. God, this is why I think it's

2089
01:58:38,720 --> 01:58:44,920
Speaker 1: an experiment gone haywire on our brains. I can't remember

2090
01:58:44,920 --> 01:58:47,040
Speaker 1: if I shared this earlier with you guys or with

2091
01:58:47,080 --> 01:58:50,080
Speaker 1: my friend Crystalizza on the weekly podcast I do for

2092
01:58:50,120 --> 01:58:54,480
Speaker 1: his feed. But John pot Horitz, who's an editor at

2093
01:58:54,520 --> 01:59:00,000
Speaker 1: Commentary Magazine from He's a conservative commentator, had a fascinating

2094
01:59:00,120 --> 01:59:05,600
Speaker 1: thread over the weekend about how the real issue with

2095
01:59:05,640 --> 01:59:09,080
Speaker 1: social media is that too many good people have allowed

2096
01:59:09,120 --> 01:59:12,960
Speaker 1: too much of their of their inner thoughts go public.

2097
01:59:13,960 --> 01:59:16,120
Speaker 1: And what he was saying is that look, in any

2098
01:59:16,120 --> 01:59:20,240
Speaker 1: given second, if our thought, if every thought that was

2099
01:59:20,280 --> 01:59:23,320
Speaker 1: in our head, do this exercise and think about everything

2100
01:59:23,440 --> 01:59:26,640
Speaker 1: you may have thought about for a split second involving

2101
01:59:26,680 --> 01:59:34,400
Speaker 1: your life, anything about it, right, relationships, you name it.

2102
01:59:34,120 --> 01:59:38,080
Speaker 1: If if all those thoughts were broadcast on social media,

2103
01:59:38,920 --> 01:59:40,720
Speaker 1: do you think you'd have any friends left. Would you

2104
01:59:40,760 --> 01:59:44,200
Speaker 1: still be married, would you still be in relationships? Would

2105
01:59:44,200 --> 01:59:46,440
Speaker 1: you be seen as a madman? Would you be seen

2106
01:59:46,440 --> 01:59:49,200
Speaker 1: as crazy? Right? I think you sort of get what

2107
01:59:49,280 --> 01:59:52,040
Speaker 1: I'm saying, or maybe maybe I'm the weirdo that that

2108
01:59:52,040 --> 01:59:55,160
Speaker 1: that is admitting that you know, you get. There's plenty

2109
01:59:55,200 --> 01:59:58,240
Speaker 1: of things you think that you don't say, and somehow

2110
01:59:58,280 --> 02:00:03,240
Speaker 1: social media, like I was reading, I was reading a

2111
02:00:03,320 --> 02:00:07,280
Speaker 1: quote from somebody who was who oh, I know what

2112
02:00:07,320 --> 02:00:07,680
Speaker 1: it was.

2113
02:00:07,840 --> 02:00:08,240
Speaker 3: It was.

2114
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:14,120
Speaker 1: An elected official down in my hometown in South Florida,

2115
02:00:14,160 --> 02:00:17,840
Speaker 1: in Miami, Palmetto Bay, one of these invented towns in

2116
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:22,200
Speaker 1: Dade County, I say invented there. When I was growing up,

2117
02:00:22,200 --> 02:00:24,400
Speaker 1: there were thirty one municipalities. I think we're up the

2118
02:00:24,400 --> 02:00:27,440
Speaker 1: thirty six down there in Miami Dade County. Palmetto Bay

2119
02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:29,000
Speaker 1: is now one of them. It all used to be

2120
02:00:29,040 --> 02:00:33,120
Speaker 1: unincorporated Dade County, so we all wrote Miami is our address,

2121
02:00:33,200 --> 02:00:38,400
Speaker 1: which is I grew up an unincorporated Dade County. Otherwise

2122
02:00:38,440 --> 02:00:42,520
Speaker 1: I describe it as East Kendall if you're scoring at home.

2123
02:00:43,640 --> 02:00:47,320
Speaker 1: But an elected official went out there and said something

2124
02:00:47,360 --> 02:00:54,040
Speaker 1: really you know, said something really not good about Charlie Kirkstaff.

2125
02:00:54,720 --> 02:00:57,879
Speaker 1: I don't remember the exact things. I'm hesitant to characterize

2126
02:00:57,880 --> 02:01:01,360
Speaker 1: it other than it was in a and certainly the

2127
02:01:01,400 --> 02:01:05,080
Speaker 1: timing was inappropriate, and the guy had said he goes

2128
02:01:05,120 --> 02:01:08,120
Speaker 1: he woke up the next morning and regretted sending it, right,

2129
02:01:08,200 --> 02:01:11,760
Speaker 1: it was heat of the moment. I bring this up

2130
02:01:11,800 --> 02:01:18,680
Speaker 1: because I think that that's where we've let why social

2131
02:01:18,720 --> 02:01:24,480
Speaker 1: media is so so toxic and so bad for our brains. Right,

2132
02:01:24,560 --> 02:01:31,280
Speaker 1: there's no there's no uh, there's no sort of it

2133
02:01:31,280 --> 02:01:33,600
Speaker 1: should sit in drafts, right, Like you know, if you

2134
02:01:33,720 --> 02:01:37,520
Speaker 1: if you're worried about your inner id saying something that

2135
02:01:37,880 --> 02:01:40,640
Speaker 1: you'll regret in the morning, It's almost like you should

2136
02:01:40,640 --> 02:01:43,000
Speaker 1: be able to put a small g governor and your

2137
02:01:43,040 --> 02:01:46,120
Speaker 1: Twitter feed and just say send all tweets to draft,

2138
02:01:46,240 --> 02:01:48,480
Speaker 1: and then the next morning reread them and see if

2139
02:01:48,920 --> 02:01:50,680
Speaker 1: you want to send them. But of course, you know,

2140
02:01:51,120 --> 02:01:52,800
Speaker 1: nobody wants to do that because they want to be

2141
02:01:52,840 --> 02:01:54,360
Speaker 1: in the moment. You want to see if you go

2142
02:01:54,520 --> 02:01:57,680
Speaker 1: viral or whatever. Right, And so I just bring that

2143
02:01:57,800 --> 02:02:02,400
Speaker 1: up because I have a feeling in the pre social

2144
02:02:02,440 --> 02:02:07,320
Speaker 1: media world, there were plenty of people who had unpopular

2145
02:02:07,360 --> 02:02:12,320
Speaker 1: opinions about political attacks or assassinations that if they shared them,

2146
02:02:12,440 --> 02:02:14,040
Speaker 1: and if there had been social media at the time,

2147
02:02:14,080 --> 02:02:18,640
Speaker 1: would have probably gotten them, you know, canceled, and maybe

2148
02:02:18,640 --> 02:02:20,560
Speaker 1: in some cases deservedly. So I'm not going to even

2149
02:02:20,600 --> 02:02:22,480
Speaker 1: I don't want to sit here and defend that idea.

2150
02:02:24,160 --> 02:02:27,040
Speaker 1: But I think this is where social media is just

2151
02:02:27,280 --> 02:02:32,960
Speaker 1: it incentivizes stupidity, and it sometimes you know, remember the

2152
02:02:33,000 --> 02:02:36,760
Speaker 1: advice I assume everybody has heard this advice, if you

2153
02:02:36,760 --> 02:02:39,080
Speaker 1: don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

2154
02:02:39,760 --> 02:02:42,600
Speaker 1: It's certainly a rule of thumb I have or about

2155
02:02:42,600 --> 02:02:47,280
Speaker 1: people that die in politics. You know, if you know you,

2156
02:02:47,520 --> 02:02:52,120
Speaker 1: you certainly if you've got a disagreement you want to highlight.

2157
02:02:52,200 --> 02:02:55,400
Speaker 1: Maybe wait, let the family mourn, have some grace, right,

2158
02:02:55,480 --> 02:03:02,040
Speaker 1: whatever it is. And for some reason social media has

2159
02:03:02,080 --> 02:03:04,720
Speaker 1: made us think that the rules of the korum don't

2160
02:03:04,720 --> 02:03:07,760
Speaker 1: apply when how would you behave in you know, if

2161
02:03:07,800 --> 02:03:11,640
Speaker 1: you were face to face with that person, if you

2162
02:03:12,160 --> 02:03:14,440
Speaker 1: were trying, if you put yourself saying, if I was

2163
02:03:14,480 --> 02:03:18,440
Speaker 1: face to face, how would I say this? It probably

2164
02:03:18,440 --> 02:03:23,440
Speaker 1: would make Twitter less interesting. But maybe that's a good

2165
02:03:23,480 --> 02:03:26,880
Speaker 1: thing on this front. But I'm really worried about a

2166
02:03:26,920 --> 02:03:29,920
Speaker 1: sort of red scare vibe as I said at the

2167
02:03:29,960 --> 02:03:35,440
Speaker 1: top here, and a disingenuous attack on this that this

2168
02:03:35,600 --> 02:03:39,240
Speaker 1: is just trying to do guilt by association, which is,

2169
02:03:39,640 --> 02:03:44,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's a very dangerous. It's you know, it's

2170
02:03:44,280 --> 02:03:50,600
Speaker 1: our polarization is bad. Are the increase in political violence

2171
02:03:50,600 --> 02:03:54,640
Speaker 1: that we've been experiencing is bad, and scapegoating and guilt

2172
02:03:54,640 --> 02:03:56,880
Speaker 1: by association is only going to make all of these

2173
02:03:56,880 --> 02:04:03,040
Speaker 1: things worse. All right, On that happy note, I think

2174
02:04:03,040 --> 02:04:07,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to pause here for twenty four hours. This was,

2175
02:04:08,000 --> 02:04:09,480
Speaker 1: like I said, I wanted to make it a little

2176
02:04:09,480 --> 02:04:14,000
Speaker 1: canpain heavier episode. But look, we're we're living in a

2177
02:04:14,080 --> 02:04:18,240
Speaker 1: rough period, and if we don't have the leaders to

2178
02:04:18,240 --> 02:04:20,240
Speaker 1: get us out of this rough period, do little things

2179
02:04:20,240 --> 02:04:28,560
Speaker 1: on your own, right, you know, just say thank you,

2180
02:04:28,720 --> 02:04:32,480
Speaker 1: say hi to somebody you don't know, Acknowledge somebody's existence

2181
02:04:32,480 --> 02:04:36,280
Speaker 1: when you walk by them, you know, on a street corner.

2182
02:04:39,920 --> 02:04:43,680
Speaker 1: And Spencer Cox said, touch grass, right, but turn it off.

2183
02:04:44,080 --> 02:04:48,000
Speaker 1: You know, I have I all the time try to

2184
02:04:48,040 --> 02:04:51,720
Speaker 1: do better when it comes to when I'm a news junkie.

2185
02:04:51,760 --> 02:04:54,160
Speaker 1: I'm an information junkie, so I'm always looking for more information.

2186
02:04:55,080 --> 02:04:58,400
Speaker 1: But I have found different ways now to get information

2187
02:04:58,520 --> 02:05:02,960
Speaker 1: without using social media. Not totally gone. I'm not totally

2188
02:05:03,040 --> 02:05:05,560
Speaker 1: kicked the habit. You know, I might be smoking one

2189
02:05:05,560 --> 02:05:09,640
Speaker 1: cigarette a day, but I'm not smoking twenty and I

2190
02:05:09,680 --> 02:05:13,160
Speaker 1: think that's the I think if everybody took that advice,

2191
02:05:13,400 --> 02:05:17,560
Speaker 1: you know, wean themselves off, we might have a better

2192
02:05:18,120 --> 02:05:23,160
Speaker 1: digital atmosphere. So with that, I'll take a break until

2193
02:05:23,160 --> 02:05:29,840
Speaker 1: we upload again. See in twenty four hours.