Speaker 1: Hey, folks, Amy and TJ here doing a bit of
Speaker 1: a surprise podcast. We weren't expecting to record one today,
Speaker 1: so it's going to be a surprise to our iHeart
Speaker 1: team that even we have this podcast. And it's even
Speaker 1: a surprise to Robot, who is sitting here next to me,
Speaker 1: not in studio. We are in our living room right now.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm surprised, and I still don't even know what
Speaker 2: to expect. You sent me a text and asked, so
Speaker 2: my youngest, who seventeen, is driving, and so she dropped.
Speaker 2: She drove Ava and I to the airport where I
Speaker 2: said goodbye to her moments ago, and Annalise was driving.
Speaker 2: So I was able to respond to you when you
Speaker 2: texted me and said, can Analse drop you off at
Speaker 2: my place?
Speaker 1: You know? Or I'm telling you now. I invited you
Speaker 1: and I want you to come by because we ain't
Speaker 1: right You and I aren't okay right now. I said,
Speaker 1: you know what, let's set up and do a podcast.
Speaker 1: Both of us just posted our first TikTok videos in
Speaker 1: the past twenty four hours. It's the first time I
Speaker 1: have actually seen comments on social media in a year
Speaker 1: plus because of hasn't been on social media, and I
Speaker 1: had comments off and a number of comments that I'm
Speaker 1: reading calling us a cute, positive stuff, but a cute couple.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen some of this stuff, but people
Speaker 1: are supportive and complementary, and you guys look so happy
Speaker 1: and all of these things. And in reading that today,
Speaker 1: at least, I felt like a fraud. Because you can
Speaker 1: say it the way, or you put it in the
Speaker 1: terms you want to put it in. But what you
Speaker 1: can say, what you said with the phone to me,
Speaker 1: or you can put it in whatever terms, but what
Speaker 1: the past couple of days have felt like for us.
Speaker 2: So we have been working on this podcast since summer,
Speaker 2: and I've always said that expectations are absolutely a case
Speaker 2: for suffering. So I continually have to remind myself and
Speaker 2: try to remove them from my head. But when you
Speaker 2: start working hard and digging in. And I have always
Speaker 2: been fully confident in our ability to work together on
Speaker 2: television or in whatever some sort of broadcasting capacity is
Speaker 2: what we do. We're good at it, we're good at
Speaker 2: it together. What we haven't, what I haven't done as
Speaker 2: much of in my career, is be responsible for content, booking, ratings,
Speaker 2: whatever it's downloads here. But the pressure of all of that,
Speaker 2: I think has consumed both of us, and so we
Speaker 2: have always been able to work together and enjoy it profusely,
Speaker 2: have our downtime and our fun together, and it's just
Speaker 2: been kind of our rhythm, even as friends, but especially
Speaker 2: in this romantic relationship, and even when we were hunkering
Speaker 2: down last year, we were in it together. And in
Speaker 2: the last few days, I just think we're spending hours
Speaker 2: and hours side by side working on things. We work differently,
Speaker 2: We've discovered when it comes to brainstorming, coming up with ideas,
Speaker 2: thinking about guests, thinking about content, I like to talk
Speaker 2: it out and brainstorm and throw things out and up,
Speaker 2: and you like to quietly do your thing by yourself.
Speaker 2: And so what we've ended up doing is sitting in
Speaker 2: silence for hours next to each other, and it's exhausting.
Speaker 2: I'm not great at that, and there's obviously with everything
Speaker 2: else going on in my life. It just I have
Speaker 2: felt extremely disconnected from you. And I'm somebody who, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think, especially when I feel the way I do.
Speaker 2: I have realized that I do want and need and
Speaker 2: prefer physical touch, words of affirmation communication. So when I'm
Speaker 2: sitting next to somebody who I know we're both working hard,
Speaker 2: but I feel is completely emotionally removed from our relationship.
Speaker 2: So it's the struggle of yes, we're we've always worked
Speaker 2: together and gotten along, but this is a different kind
Speaker 2: of working together, And so the last few days I've
Speaker 2: felt disconnected to you.
Speaker 1: I said, there were two reasons I wanted to set
Speaker 1: this up, and all the reason this was on my mind.
Speaker 1: One had to do with the seeing all the positive
Speaker 1: comments and everyone so complimentary of us and us in
Speaker 1: pictures and look so happy, which we are, that is
Speaker 1: not a question of it. The second thing that made
Speaker 1: me want to set this up, you know, I had
Speaker 1: breakfast with a friend of mine today, and that friend
Speaker 1: of mine happens to have two divorces under his belt
Speaker 1: and is on his third marriage. And we had a
Speaker 1: conversation in which there was a comfort or relief of
Speaker 1: camaraderie in that life experience that we now have both
Speaker 1: gone through and can understand. And he was speaking about
Speaker 1: us and our relationship and our podcast in such a
Speaker 1: way that he appreciated and things other people appreciate. Knowing
Speaker 1: that other people are in that struggle or have been
Speaker 1: through that and there's not shame and you're not alone.
Speaker 1: So with that being said, and I saw the complimentary
Speaker 1: things being said about us, and like I said, I
Speaker 1: felt like a fraud just for today and that we
Speaker 1: talk about this is a place where we're going to
Speaker 1: be open and honest and have an ability to be authentic.
Speaker 1: On this podcast. We joke, we play, people hear us laugh,
Speaker 1: and we're getting along perfectly all the time on the podcast.
Speaker 1: But there is now a moment of, well why not
Speaker 1: share and be that authentic that we say we're going
Speaker 1: to be, Not because we're trying to air out some
Speaker 1: dirty laundry, but there is a comfort I believe, I
Speaker 1: certainly have it in knowing that somebody else shares in
Speaker 1: that same struggle. Most people can't relate to all the
Speaker 1: fun we have and the smiles we have and the
Speaker 1: trips we take and the things we get to do.
Speaker 1: I can't relate to that. Look at it and go wow,
Speaker 1: they look happy, and we are. But there is an
Speaker 1: authenticity and a connective tissue to us all when it
Speaker 1: comes to relationships and the struggle those relationships bringing. And
Speaker 1: right now we're in a little bit of a struggle
Speaker 1: and we've been there for several days, and so if
Speaker 1: we want to be what relatable or even an example,
Speaker 1: then if we're going to talk about all the highs
Speaker 1: and how great we're doing and the joy and the love,
Speaker 1: and if we're going to do that, then I thought, well,
Speaker 1: why not now do this? And that's why I had
Speaker 1: you come over, because we're going to make it through
Speaker 1: this what we're dealing with now, and usually we have to.
Speaker 1: I mean, we might be in a fight and then
Speaker 1: have to go to the studio and do a show
Speaker 1: together and do an interview and just have to pretend
Speaker 1: like we're okay even if we're not. We haven't had
Speaker 1: to do that yet, but I'm saying there, this is
Speaker 1: this is an opportunity to show that we are not
Speaker 1: okay sometimes and this is how we get through it.
Speaker 1: I'm not good at this, talked about it with doctor Guardia.
Speaker 1: It takes me a couple of days sometimes, so I
Speaker 1: am trying as well. But this was this was a
Speaker 1: I've been talking authenticity a lot lately and today and
Speaker 1: a couple of happenings really put me in the place tok,
Speaker 1: you know, why not and let's go talk about it
Speaker 1: and that's supposed to be the point of the podcast, and.
Speaker 2: I think that when we set out on this path,
Speaker 2: I was actually having a conversation with my seventeen year
Speaker 2: old Annalise and then Ava's good friend Montgomery, who you
Speaker 2: mentioned in TikTok because she's marketing major and has been
Speaker 2: helping us with social media. She's actually the person who
Speaker 2: encouraged me. And I think you too, to turn comments
Speaker 2: back on to get on TikTok, to really embrace this
Speaker 2: podcast and what we're trying to accomplish, which is to
Speaker 2: do what we love to do, which is to share,
Speaker 2: and to not only share our story, but others stories,
Speaker 2: and hopefully I think we talked about what we wanted
Speaker 2: our podcast to be. I know, for me, yes, entertainment
Speaker 2: is a huge part of it. I love to entertain,
Speaker 2: but I also want to inspire and I want to
Speaker 2: be transparent, and I've talked a lot about living my
Speaker 2: truth and so this is part of it. So I
Speaker 2: am fine having these conversations because there isn't a couple
Speaker 2: out there who doesn't and so yes, I don't, and
Speaker 2: I know you don't want to put on some false
Speaker 2: narrative that somehow we're the perfect couple and we found
Speaker 2: our true love and that means we never fight and
Speaker 2: we always get along and things are rosy and great.
Speaker 2: No they're not. And even as much as we know
Speaker 2: each other more than most people who have been in
Speaker 2: a relationship for over a year, we've known each other
Speaker 2: for a decade now pretty much, and we know each
Speaker 2: other really, really well, it doesn't mean that we still don't. Like,
Speaker 2: I'm learning things about you every day as we're We've
Speaker 2: always worked together, but working with this kind of pressure
Speaker 2: over our heads is a whole other thing where Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm just saying that pressure is a lot.
Speaker 1: Oh are you talking about the work pressure or the
Speaker 1: pressure now publicly for us to succeed as a couple.
Speaker 2: Oh see, I don't. I don't feel the pressure from
Speaker 2: the public to stay with you. I know that I
Speaker 2: know you well enough and I've spend enough time with you,
Speaker 2: and I knew how I felt. And love sometimes is
Speaker 2: a choice. When it's hard, it's not just a feeling.
Speaker 2: Lust is a feeling, but love is a choice, I believe,
Speaker 2: and I have chosen to love you, So I don't
Speaker 2: feel pressure from the public to be with you. I
Speaker 2: would be devastated just personally because I want to be
Speaker 2: with you and I chose you, but I feel the
Speaker 2: pressure of our careers that I believe.
Speaker 3: We're unfairly taken from us, and I really want to
Speaker 3: be able to do what I love and I want
Speaker 3: to be able to do it with you. So that's
Speaker 3: more the pressure I feel. And funny enough, you talk
Speaker 3: about the.
Speaker 2: Comments, So this is the first time I've really read
Speaker 2: the comments as well, and the TikTok thing has been amazing.
Speaker 2: Like I would say, ninety five percent of them are positive,
Speaker 2: but the negative ones sting and they hurt, and I
Speaker 2: was I've been angry at the cancel culture mentality that
Speaker 2: people think they know the story and then they just
Speaker 2: throw barbs at you and they call you names, and
Speaker 2: it's I'm not trying to say, poor me, whoya wow w.
Speaker 2: There are so many people who have gone through this,
Speaker 2: not just publicly but just personally. If you do something
Speaker 2: that people don't like or they think is wrong, or
Speaker 2: they think they know what happens, you know, no one
Speaker 2: knows what happens in someone else's marriage, No one knows
Speaker 2: what happens in your private life except for you. And
Speaker 2: so just to see the unbelievable. Judgment is kind of
Speaker 2: overwhelming still more than a year later, and I just
Speaker 2: I sometimes get discouraged at people's unwillingness to either suspend
Speaker 2: judgment or to just feel better about themselves by making
Speaker 2: you into the villain for whatever reason they need to
Speaker 2: do it. So even Annaly's actually got on to tick
Speaker 2: Took yesterday and started deleting all the bad comments because
Speaker 2: they didn't want me to see them.
Speaker 1: Look, we can handle anything if you and I are okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: When you and I are not okay, it's the end
Speaker 1: of the world. We went through a year of our
Speaker 1: relationship strengthened because we were like the whole world it
Speaker 1: felt like was against us, but I had you and
Speaker 1: I was okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean that entire year was as good a relationship
Speaker 1: as anyone could imagine, not just under the circumstances, but
Speaker 1: we were great. We're in this position now, all that
Speaker 1: pressure you're talking about, the work pressure, the public pressure,
Speaker 1: everything's been going on family wise for a long time.
Speaker 1: That turned a corner and everything has been great the
Speaker 1: past month. But to now you and I for the
Speaker 1: past several it feels like the end of the world.
Speaker 1: And so I mean, I'm asking you, what are you
Speaker 1: willing or are you waiting to let this cycle through?
Speaker 1: Or was this just a weird stretch of time because
Speaker 1: we haven't been together the past several nights just because
Speaker 1: of schedules and things have happened, we haven't spent as
Speaker 1: much time together, and the time we spent together was
Speaker 1: spent working, So all of that feels different. So is
Speaker 1: it that just going to go away once we get
Speaker 1: back in the regular routine or whatever it may be.
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I think we need to talk about
Speaker 2: our different approaches to our feelings. If I'm feeling m
Speaker 2: just you and I aren't on the same wavelength, it's
Speaker 2: devastating to me, so.
Speaker 1: Well on the same page about how we're feeling. What
Speaker 1: are you talking about?
Speaker 2: Well? Oh, because I just think how we communicate with
Speaker 2: each other, like what I need versus what you need?
Speaker 2: What you might not realize hurts me. I might I
Speaker 2: say things or do things that I don't realize hurt you,
Speaker 2: and I I think we have to be more open
Speaker 2: about communicating what we need to feel supported, even when
Speaker 2: it's tough, even when it's tense, even when we're in
Speaker 2: our own zones.
Speaker 1: Basically, but where is But where did that happen? Where
Speaker 1: did that happen today? That you had? You said communication
Speaker 1: with you one hundred percent, But we lost communication when
Speaker 1: I knew something. And I'm speaking from my perspective here
Speaker 1: and you have a different one on how I might
Speaker 1: have been behaving as well, but you were, you were
Speaker 1: I knew something was up and you wouldn't tell me
Speaker 1: what it was. When on the phone today, over and over,
Speaker 1: I asked, what's up? You just don't want to tell me,
Speaker 1: So what's going on? So at that point I stopped probing.
Speaker 1: I know you were completely silenced, not speaking one word answers.
Speaker 1: There was nothing to it, and we are talking about
Speaker 1: it now. That was how many hours ago? I mean
Speaker 1: we didn't get it out until we got microphones in
Speaker 1: front of us.
Speaker 2: Now, well, I didn't even know that this was going
Speaker 2: to happen.
Speaker 1: Well I know that, but I'm saying, but why did
Speaker 1: Why are we talking about it now and not talking
Speaker 1: about it when you said you knew you had a problem,
Speaker 1: You knew you had an issue, and you didn't communicate
Speaker 1: it to me.
Speaker 2: Well, I because I was in an emotional state about Ava,
Speaker 2: and I just felt like there were so many things
Speaker 2: that I was feeling. I wanted to make sure that
Speaker 2: I had the space to recognize why I was feeling
Speaker 2: what I was feeling. I really wanted to just be
Speaker 2: able to put a space between those two things.
Speaker 1: And what do you think now? There a space between?
Speaker 2: Yeah, between the emotions, like, I don't know if one
Speaker 2: is impacting the other. Do you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 2: I don't. I'm feeling emotional about Ava, So I'm just
Speaker 2: in an emotional place right now.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're suggesting that what's going on with you and
Speaker 1: I is just a byproduct of what's happening with Ava.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying is two things can happen at the
Speaker 2: same time, and the emotions from one can overwhelm the
Speaker 2: other and make it more than it should be. I
Speaker 2: wanted to be able to really think about why I
Speaker 2: was feeling what I was feeling, and how much of
Speaker 2: my emotions around Eva or We're adding to how I
Speaker 2: was feeling. That's what I wanted to make sure I
Speaker 2: was doing. And I didn't want to just break down
Speaker 2: and cry. I wanted to think about it.
Speaker 1: So what does that actually mean? Because I often end
Speaker 1: up in this place with you in these conversations to
Speaker 1: where I think we're dealing with one thing and you
Speaker 1: explain it in a such a way and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is not that.
Speaker 2: I just don't I just don't want to overreact. That's
Speaker 2: all because I'm feeling emotional.
Speaker 1: Okay, you think you have, I mean you.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think I've overreacted.
Speaker 1: Why didn't you speak to me freely on the phone.
Speaker 2: Because I was crying. I just didn't want to cry
Speaker 2: on the phone.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well you're talking to me like it's nothing right,
Speaker 1: you're talking to me now, I do I And yeah,
Speaker 1: I know this sounds familiar to you because I've talked
Speaker 1: about it before, like wow, this is the thing we're
Speaker 1: talking about, and now now it ends up getting spent
Speaker 1: in such a way that I don't know what the
Speaker 1: problem is.
Speaker 2: I just I think for me, I just I don't
Speaker 2: like spending days not talking to you or being in
Speaker 2: the same room with you and they're being silenced that
Speaker 2: it just it throws me. It's not something I'm used
Speaker 2: to and it scares me.
Speaker 1: But you say it often, do you. But it always
Speaker 1: feels like you put the onus on me for it.
Speaker 1: There is what can be done or what can you
Speaker 1: do in that situation now, But I always feel like
Speaker 1: the onus is on me to control the room to
Speaker 1: it because you say it to me like that, like
Speaker 1: you didn't say anything and you were on your phone,
Speaker 1: and it often comes off as not not like we
Speaker 1: are in a place, but this thing is happening, TJ.
Speaker 1: And I don't know what to do with you.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this. So I'm desperate to talk
Speaker 2: to you to I don't know, collaborate, but vocally, like verbally,
Speaker 2: not just you know, me think my thing and you
Speaker 2: think your thing, and then seven hours later we'll come
Speaker 2: together and see if we have something that we can
Speaker 2: put together. If you can explain to me why you
Speaker 2: like to I don't want to say shut down, but
Speaker 2: put an emotional wall up or not really be into talking.
Speaker 2: I feel like I annoy you. Yeah, I feel like
Speaker 2: you kind of shut down and you don't. It's like
Speaker 2: I feel like I don't. It's not the TJ that
Speaker 2: I know you're in kind of like hyper focus mode,
Speaker 2: which I get, but when it is an extended period
Speaker 2: of time or multiple days, I start to feel nervous,
Speaker 2: like what's going on? And then I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: annoying you.
Speaker 1: Nervous. Okay, let me just address the nervous nervous about.
Speaker 2: Why how you're feeling about us and me?
Speaker 1: Is that always on the table like everything that comes up?
Speaker 1: Is it always that, because that's like nuclear like how
Speaker 1: I'm feeling about you? Yeah, okay, And you asked me
Speaker 1: about the emotional wall. I know I'm guilty of that,
Speaker 1: but I think you're interpreting something the last few days
Speaker 1: about a wall that wasn't there. You're sitting right next
Speaker 1: to me when I'm in that work and focus mode,
Speaker 1: and yeah, we sat at this table and we did
Speaker 1: for hours almost and barely spoke. But that wasn't an
Speaker 1: emotional wall I'm putting up. Whatever I was doing is
Speaker 1: exactly what you were doing, because you weren't talking to me,
Speaker 1: and I just refuse to speak or answer questions. You know,
Speaker 1: you were staring at that phone for hours yesterday working
Speaker 1: on and that's fine what I'm saying. That's not me
Speaker 1: putting up an emotional wall when your head is down
Speaker 1: for hours.
Speaker 2: So if you remember, I was asking you, like, what
Speaker 2: can we do? What could I do to help? How
Speaker 2: can we do this together, or I take one thing,
Speaker 2: you do another, we talk and you were just like
Speaker 2: I got it on my own. And I'm not saying
Speaker 2: that that's a wrong thing. What I'm saying is sometimes
Speaker 2: it's really just almost your demeanor. It's not it's like
Speaker 2: a smile. Oh my god, if there was just a smile,
Speaker 2: that's all I'd need. It just felt robotic, I guess
Speaker 2: over the last several days, and like I'm telling you,
Speaker 2: if you smile at me, if you reached over and
Speaker 2: grabbed my knee, or just like something that was just
Speaker 2: a quick reminder that we're in this together, and hey, babe,
Speaker 2: we got each other and just just the smallest of
Speaker 2: emotion or a facial expression would just be like a
Speaker 2: nice nod to what we are, who we are, and
Speaker 2: then we're in it together. I think it's just.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not reasonable for us too. I mean
Speaker 1: you might in theory, yes, but in practice impossible to
Speaker 1: separate working with somebody as a colleague and a business
Speaker 1: partner and the relationship you're in with your business partner,
Speaker 1: It is impossible, would you say, to work with me
Speaker 1: and the emotion not be there for any period of
Speaker 1: time because it no matter what. We are partners first,
Speaker 1: business partners second. Correct, So can we ever sit up
Speaker 1: and work as business partners and there not be a look,
Speaker 1: not be a nod, not be a gesture, not be
Speaker 1: a and just work because it seems like that feels
Speaker 1: to you like something is wrong.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when it goes on for many, many, many hours, Yes,
Speaker 2: it feels unnatural, and it, honestly, it feels scary.
Speaker 1: You always use that scary. I just I just didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't think that's still on the table no matter
Speaker 1: what goes on. I'm done with the fear of us
Speaker 1: not working out, or of you not loving me the
Speaker 1: way you say you love me. I am done with that.
Speaker 1: That has not crossed my mind since I a long
Speaker 1: time ago, and you probably know when that was done.
Speaker 1: So when you you still use it to this day,
Speaker 1: talk about scary like, I'm just being honest. You think
Speaker 1: I'm going somewhere? What am I not reassuring you about?
Speaker 2: I just think it's those moments that I described where
Speaker 2: it feels clinical, and when it happens like for several
Speaker 2: days in a row or it, Yeah, I get I
Speaker 2: get worried.
Speaker 1: Oay, I'm asking what is happening that you are still feeling.
Speaker 1: Will you just forever feel that way? What is happening
Speaker 1: to where you aren't getting some assurance from me over
Speaker 1: the past year and a half that was I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm asking you to answer that.
Speaker 2: I think that you and you know this. You have
Speaker 2: many different moods, and I've known that about you when
Speaker 2: I was friends with you. You are moody. Not a
Speaker 2: disagreement at all, And I get we all have moods,
Speaker 2: and we all wake up differently and we all feel
Speaker 2: differently based on experiences in life or things that are happening.
Speaker 2: I just feel like sometimes when you do have whatever,
Speaker 2: something serious, something pressure wise, something significant, you do tend
Speaker 2: to emotionally and verbally withdraw from me. And that is
Speaker 2: what makes me scared because I'd prefer it. I can't
Speaker 2: tell you how to act or react because you are
Speaker 2: who you are and I'm not in the business to
Speaker 2: change anyone. But I'm just telling you when you do
Speaker 2: do that, I don't feel like I worry about what
Speaker 2: I'd love for you to do. Let me just say
Speaker 2: that what I'd love for you to do is to
Speaker 2: confide in me, to lean on me, to share with me.
Speaker 2: So that we're a part of the solution together whatever's
Speaker 2: going on. And in those moments you tend to stay
Speaker 2: in your own head and like so, and it wasn't
Speaker 2: even I think, just for me, the final nail was
Speaker 2: when you had that great meeting with your friend who
Speaker 2: was talking about his third marriage and whatever it is
Speaker 2: that you talked about. You sent me a text and
Speaker 2: you said we need to talk, and I was like, cool.
Speaker 2: I had forty minutes maybe before I had to do anything,
Speaker 2: and so I was like, okay, what is it. I
Speaker 2: was excited to hear. I was like, Oh, he's going
Speaker 2: to share something with me. He's going to tell me
Speaker 2: what happened. He's going to tell me what he's feeling.
Speaker 2: He's going to tell me what his meeting was like.
Speaker 2: And you just I think you just said no, now's
Speaker 2: not the time or something. I'm not sure what it
Speaker 2: was that you said, but that, like, after the few
Speaker 2: days we'd had, that was just for me, Like wow,
Speaker 2: So that was for me where I really got quiet
Speaker 2: and sad on the phone and didn't talk.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, hey you're.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I didn't say it, but everything I was excited about
Speaker 1: in that conversation had to do with work, this podcast,
Speaker 1: and some opportunities that are going to be coming up
Speaker 1: down the road. Things that I didn't while you were
Speaker 1: in the middle of getting Ava out the door and
Speaker 1: going to school or going overseas for five months. Is
Speaker 1: not something I wanted to engage with you fully on,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to see you before I did it. Now,
Speaker 1: I didn't explain all that because just saying hey, we'll
Speaker 1: talk about it later wasn't a big deal to me.
Speaker 1: It wasn't me withdrawing. It was just Okay, that's me,
Speaker 1: and that's a communications issue. But you, well, babe, you
Speaker 1: tell me the things you ask me to do, you
Speaker 1: want me to when I'm emotionally a certain way. You
Speaker 1: would like for me to do this, You would like
Speaker 1: for me to do that, You like me to communicate,
Speaker 1: You like me to be open. I would like I
Speaker 1: don't know how to be what you want me to
Speaker 1: be when I'm struggling. And this is what I've always
Speaker 1: had a difficult time with, is that I end up
Speaker 1: being put in a position to where today whatever is
Speaker 1: going on with me trigger something in you, and now
Speaker 1: I can't deal with my ship because you're upset with
Speaker 1: me for dealing with the way I was dealing with
Speaker 1: my ship. I understand what you're saying, and I can
Speaker 1: absolutely try to be better, but you know it's it's hard,
Speaker 1: and you know how hard it is, and you know
Speaker 1: how hard. You can understand me better than anybody else.
Speaker 1: But it's just I don't know how in those moments
Speaker 1: to take care of me and take care of somebody else.
Speaker 2: And so what I'm asking for, honestly, is not for
Speaker 2: you to take care of me. Hear me out, I'm
Speaker 2: not I know. I'm not asking you to take care
Speaker 2: of me. I'm not asking you to comfort me. I
Speaker 2: want to be able to comfort you. I want you
Speaker 2: to be able to trust me with your feelings enough
Speaker 2: to just even say I'm going through some stuff. I
Speaker 2: love your baby, but like I need some space, or
Speaker 2: I need some time, or I just need to think
Speaker 2: it out, just acknowledging what's happening. The non acknowledgment. It's
Speaker 2: not that I need you to comfort me and make
Speaker 2: me feel good about your pain. I just want communication
Speaker 2: about what's happening with you. And if you were to
Speaker 2: let me in, that would feel like a couple victory
Speaker 2: in the sense that we're leaning on each other. You
Speaker 2: trust me enough, not that I can fix anything, but
Speaker 2: just to hear you out and to sit with you
Speaker 2: in whatever mood you're in. I don't need, I don't
Speaker 2: need to be comforted. But when I'm shut out or
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on, or I feel ful
Speaker 2: of a big emotional change, that is a scary place
Speaker 2: to be in. And I'm not again, I'm not asking
Speaker 2: for your comfort. I'm asking for your communication. I'm asking
Speaker 2: for your partnership or treating like giving me sharing with me.
Speaker 2: I think it's about sharing, It's about That's how I feel.
Speaker 2: So when I feel like I'm being shut out, it
Speaker 2: doesn't feel.
Speaker 1: Good, and we should mention it has been a bit
Speaker 1: of a perfect storm the past several days. We're not
Speaker 1: used to not spending time together, quality time together. We're
Speaker 1: not used to not spending the night together. And it's
Speaker 1: just for a whole host of reasons and people in
Speaker 1: and out, and you just haven't been able to with
Speaker 1: the responsibilities.
Speaker 2: So we haven't had a lot of alone time, almost none.
Speaker 1: That's a disconnect I used to and I think that's
Speaker 1: a big deal. And in the time we did spend
Speaker 1: an extended amount of time together. It was something work related.
Speaker 2: It was all work related.
Speaker 1: So I think that's an issue or as certainly needs
Speaker 1: to be factor.
Speaker 2: How are you feeling? Let me ask you this, how
Speaker 2: are you feeling over the last few days.
Speaker 1: I am focused and I am mentally exhausted and I
Speaker 1: cannot recharge.
Speaker 2: When I left yesterday and the elevator doors were shutting,
Speaker 2: what did I say to you? I miss you.
Speaker 1: Oh, don't just tell me to f off.
Speaker 2: Haha. I thought I miss you.
Speaker 1: And I miss you.
Speaker 2: To have a positive note on all of this, I
Speaker 2: am in awe of what has transpired this past month
Speaker 2: with my girls and you. I mean, we had I
Speaker 2: think three different nights where all of our girls were
Speaker 2: in the same room together, watching movies together, eating dinner together,
Speaker 2: laughing together, playing games together. That if I could have
Speaker 2: seen that a year ago, I would have taken the
Speaker 2: biggest sigh of relief, like, thank God, it's all going
Speaker 2: to be okay, It's all going to work out. And
Speaker 2: we've had multiple days and nights like that in the
Speaker 2: month of December and January, and that is a huge blessing.
Speaker 2: And so I think I was also sad to see
Speaker 2: Ava leave because things have been so good, and they
Speaker 2: have been so peaceful and joyful.
Speaker 1: I might even add, and now we're trying to screw
Speaker 1: it up. We finally got everybody else good.
Speaker 2: The girls are great, all of them, and that I
Speaker 2: want to focus on. That is huge. Yeah, that's everything.
Speaker 1: Look, and all this we learn every time we I mean,
Speaker 1: I would still say in the year and a half,
Speaker 1: we may have had five fights.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well this wasn't even a fight.
Speaker 1: That's true, It's not This wasn't a fight. This was just.
Speaker 2: No. No, I'm not mad. I was sad. I actually
Speaker 2: think I can handle anything as long as it's spoken
Speaker 2: out loud and discussed. And because I do know that
Speaker 2: you love me and I know that I love you,
Speaker 2: I just like all couples, were still working through the
Speaker 2: communication kinks and there is Look, I'll admit, I am
Speaker 2: a I am a person who has insecurities like every
Speaker 2: other human on the planet, and I get insecure and
Speaker 2: I get scared. And your mind can be a mind
Speaker 2: field if you let it. So I was trying to
Speaker 2: make sure I was not taking the emotion I was
Speaker 2: feeling from Ava and applying it to something that wasn't
Speaker 2: that big of a deal. But just felt a little unnerving,
Speaker 2: a little strange, a little frustrating.
Speaker 1: You said the communication. What kept you from putting your
Speaker 1: hand on my knee? What kept you from speaking up
Speaker 1: when you felt things were uncomfortable or I was being emotionless?
Speaker 1: What kept you from driving or carrying us through that moment?
Speaker 2: Well, I was asking you what could I do? Can
Speaker 2: we do this together? I was talking and communicating with you.
Speaker 2: I didn't I also didn't want to bother you because
Speaker 2: you looked super focused and I didn't want to disrupt
Speaker 2: your train of thought if we just made a commitment.
Speaker 2: Let me just say this, because yes, both of us,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that I don't require or want things
Speaker 2: from you. Of course I do. You feel the same
Speaker 2: way about me, probably if you're being honest. So yes,
Speaker 2: do I every now and then want a smile or
Speaker 2: hey babe, or and I love you? Yes?
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: I do want that.
Speaker 1: Okay, we're going back to the same thing. It's on me.
Speaker 1: We're going back to this way, is it?
Speaker 2: But the thing is, if it's a hardship for you
Speaker 2: every now and then we're in the middle of a
Speaker 2: you know, an intense stretch to just show a little
Speaker 2: affection that's tough for me, and then say the same
Speaker 2: thing about me as well. But I'm just saying I
Speaker 2: don't think it's wrong to want that or to ask
Speaker 2: that of the person.
Speaker 1: You love, but it's wrong to hold them accountable and
Speaker 1: say that he is disrupted.
Speaker 2: Or you're at risk or you're nervous. Because I'm just
Speaker 2: saying it's how I felt. I can't I wasn't a
Speaker 2: planned thought out thing where I'm trying to say he
Speaker 2: owes me this and he should do that. I'm just
Speaker 2: telling you how I felt.
Speaker 1: This is where all of our fights end up. It's
Speaker 1: and I say it at the end every time, and
Speaker 1: it frustrates the hell out of you. Okay, baby, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: and I'll take care of it because this is where
Speaker 1: I'm left. There's there's nothing and no admission you are
Speaker 1: making of you being responsible for any of that taking place.
Speaker 2: I have a hard time when you say that somehow
Speaker 2: I think that you need to that you have to
Speaker 2: take care of everything that you have to make it right,
Speaker 2: that the onus is on you. I just don't think
Speaker 2: that's fair. I think that both people in a relationship
Speaker 2: would consider that something that is a part of being
Speaker 2: in a relationship is wanting to know what their partner's
Speaker 2: needs are and to do their best to keep that
Speaker 2: in mind as they're operating in a relationship. I don't
Speaker 2: think you need Yeah, I think like in a relationship.
Speaker 1: I need to tell you what my needs are.
Speaker 2: But when I ask you, i'd love to know. I
Speaker 2: can't read your mind.
Speaker 1: Okay, you know you're getting on to me for the
Speaker 1: exact thing you did today.
Speaker 2: I told you is about Eva, and it was.
Speaker 1: I really don't know what to do because you want
Speaker 1: me to tell you how I feel. You need to
Speaker 1: tell you how I interpret it everything that happened. Every
Speaker 1: time I say it, you don't say, oh, I didn't
Speaker 1: think you saw it that way. Oh I didn't know
Speaker 1: you saw it that way. DJ, but that's not what
Speaker 1: I meant, or oh TJ, I swear I said more.
Speaker 1: But if you feel like I wasn't engaging with you
Speaker 1: and wasn't being sweet with you, then that's how you feel.
Speaker 1: There's never that room, that landing place for me for
Speaker 1: oh oh yeah, Maybe you go back and listen to
Speaker 1: this later, maybe you'd not I'm not asking for an apology,
Speaker 1: but you're not taking any responsibility. When that happens, all
Speaker 1: I can do is say I'm sorry and take full,
Speaker 1: full on responsibility and onus for making sure this doesn't happen.
Speaker 2: I absolutely am willing to take responsibility.
Speaker 1: You said you don't know what you did wrong, but
Speaker 1: don't think you did anything wrong. With that being the case,
Speaker 1: then what are you taking responsibility for?
Speaker 2: On the phone, I didn't want to tell you, and
Speaker 2: it absolutely in part was because I was too emotional
Speaker 2: about AVA and I didn't want to get into it
Speaker 2: and I didn't feel like I was in a good
Speaker 2: emotional space after knowing what I was about to go
Speaker 2: through and drop off my daughter to tell you that
Speaker 2: it hurt my feelings after the last two days that
Speaker 2: you weren't going to have a conversation with me about
Speaker 2: something you said you wanted to have a conversation with
Speaker 2: me about. So I apologize for that.
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe okay, I'm sorry. I mean, that's all that
Speaker 1: needs to be said is I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I
Speaker 1: After every issue we have, I always and I've committed
Speaker 1: to it and minted every time I said it, commit
Speaker 1: to do better and for it to not happen again.
Speaker 1: So now I know.
Speaker 2: Something else, and I'm sorry too.
Speaker 1: I was hoping we would be at a better place
Speaker 1: by the end of this.
Speaker 2: Why aren't we?
Speaker 1: Because I am incredibly frustrated by the conversation, and uh,
Speaker 1: it's a continuation of many of our conversations. Oftentimes, sometimes
Speaker 1: it takes time and reflection and some separation and we're
Speaker 1: able to speak differently. But I do right, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to tell you how I feel, and I do feel
Speaker 1: walking away oftentimes that DJ you got to do better
Speaker 1: and take on the responsibility to make sure everything's okay.
Speaker 1: And in doing so, that's a it's a responsibility I take.
Speaker 2: And you, well, let me ask you this? What? Let
Speaker 2: me ask you this? What? What can Why don't you
Speaker 2: let me in? Why don't you let me help you?
Speaker 2: Why don't you take me along with you wherever you are?
Speaker 1: Emotion I have bad days. I have really bad days,
Speaker 1: and I have days that I am in my head.
Speaker 1: I need on say space, but I need help and
Speaker 1: I don't know where to get it.
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you turn to me?
Speaker 1: You're not gonna like the answer, because when things get
Speaker 1: that kind of bad and I'm that kind of focused
Speaker 1: to that kind of quiet. The last thing in that moment,
Speaker 1: I want to do is to tell you what I need.
Speaker 1: That is how I feel, and that is the truth,
Speaker 1: not that I think is your responsibility. Well you should
Speaker 1: just know.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I know I'm a difficult one with my moods. I
Speaker 1: know that, But in those moments, I can't imagine saying
Speaker 1: to you or explaining to you what I need or
Speaker 1: what I think you should do, or what I want
Speaker 1: you to do. That's actually fine. The frustrating part is
Speaker 1: after the fact, when I am told that I did
Speaker 1: something wrong for how I reacted to how I was feeling.
Speaker 2: Do you know what it's like to feel shut out
Speaker 2: from the person that you love.
Speaker 1: I know that's no, that's difficult. Man apologized for that
Speaker 1: in the past, but it's never intentional. It's never because
Speaker 1: I want to do harm. I know that, but I
Speaker 1: get continuously frustrated by being taken to task. You're worried again.
Speaker 1: Scared is the word you use.
Speaker 2: I'm not scared when we're talking. I'm scared when we're.
Speaker 1: Not and I'm scared when we're talking.
Speaker 2: But that's the only way you get through things is
Speaker 2: to talk them out. And yeah, a lot of times
Speaker 2: it gets worse before it gets better, but keeping it
Speaker 2: in builds resentments, creates false narratives in your head of
Speaker 2: why someone did something or why they didn't do something.
Speaker 2: The only way to get into a better place, and
Speaker 2: it is a better place after the conversation happens, is
Speaker 2: sometimes to go into a darker, deeper place that's uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: We've done the darker thing yet.
Speaker 2: I think, so you sure, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: So we're on the way out.
Speaker 2: I feel like that.
Speaker 1: All right then, glad we talked. You mean that, yeah,
Speaker 1: because right now you can't help it, but you're genuinely smiling.
Speaker 1: You're actually trying to hold it in.
Speaker 2: I was trying not to smile. Oh my god. One
Speaker 2: of my favorite moments in the Age of Innocence is
Speaker 2: happening right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're fighting, no, because they love each other so much,
Speaker 1: So why is she crying because.
Speaker 2: She can't be with him and he's telling her that
Speaker 2: he loves her, and she's like, it's not possible. We
Speaker 2: can't do anything about it. It's just like us. Look,
Speaker 2: she's crying, just like me. Michelle Peiffer. I don't know
Speaker 2: if anyone's seen Age of Nisnce, but when I was
Speaker 2: in high school, I read Edith Wharton's book, and then
Speaker 2: when the movie came out, Michelle Pfeiffer and Daniel day
Speaker 2: Lewis and Winona Wryter. Yes, that's me. It was like
Speaker 2: a perfectly timed scene.
Speaker 1: That's playing, and that's me.
Speaker 2: With tears in his eyes. Tears A little fun fact
Speaker 2: TJ like And I didn't know this until we actually
Speaker 2: became an item. You like to have movies on in
Speaker 2: the background. Always, the TV is always on, the sound
Speaker 2: is down, but you have a you have a movie
Speaker 2: playing at all times. During Christmas it's Die Hard and
Speaker 2: then on January I think it was January second this year,
Speaker 2: you switched and then what do you cycle through? Age
Speaker 2: of Innocence was brought into play from me.
Speaker 1: But you like it? Well, I've seen this movie. I've
Speaker 1: seen this movie fifty times. I still know what happens
Speaker 1: in it because I never just sat down and washed
Speaker 1: it from start to finish. I see moments and parts
Speaker 1: of it, and I just always have some in the background.
Speaker 1: The other one is Princess Bride.
Speaker 2: And Princess Bride has always been one of my top ten.
Speaker 1: I keep that on, But yeah, I don't know. It's
Speaker 1: something that's just comforting. I think some of them. We're
Speaker 1: sitting here arguing here or no, no, yeah, we're fighting
Speaker 1: now if we weren't before, but then we just did.
Speaker 1: We graduated to a fight. Have we come back?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Perfect timing. You all saw this scene in Age of
Speaker 1: Nisnce right now it's.
Speaker 2: Depressing, crawling on each other, stopping the living room.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, all right, sir god, All right, well,
Speaker 1: I'm glad we talked that out. You're good, baby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can end with the smile and I'll lie.
Speaker 1: Are you better? Yes?
Speaker 2: I am better? Are you better?
Speaker 1: Did we get somewhere? I think so, you get to
Speaker 1: a better place. Yes? Still love me?
Speaker 2: I do love you. I never stopped loving you.
Speaker 1: You're still scared.
Speaker 2: I probably will be in moments here and there, but
Speaker 2: less so. Are you never scared?
Speaker 1: No, none of that. I'm not just getting out in
Speaker 1: the least bit. I couldn't. I couldn't go forward with
Speaker 1: you in this way, with all we've got going on
Speaker 1: if I wasn't just I can't have that in the
Speaker 1: back of my mind. Look, folks were explain why this
Speaker 1: wasn't planned, But something was going on and look and
Speaker 1: must have been happened in the past couple of days again
Speaker 1: with talking to my friend and then seeing some of
Speaker 1: the comments. This was just a good opportunity I thought
Speaker 1: to talk. I didn't think it was going to get
Speaker 1: that damn heavy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, I apologized that that was a lot for people.
Speaker 1: Didn't think I was going to get that mad. But sure,
Speaker 1: matter is this is I don't know how we would
Speaker 1: have talked it out in private, if it would have
Speaker 1: been better or worse.
Speaker 2: I think it would have been worse. I think it
Speaker 2: was better to do it. You were tain, yes, sweetheart, dude, No,
Speaker 2: I wasn't tame. I didn't hold anything back.
Speaker 1: This is your lad. Once once I hit stop on
Speaker 1: the recorder, that's it. I don't want anything else. I'm good,
Speaker 1: all right, Well, folks, appreciate you going along.
Speaker 2: I hope you all don't feel as bad about your
Speaker 2: marriages or relationships now after you.
Speaker 1: Have heard are as bad well, I mean as bad
Speaker 1: as bad as us?
Speaker 2: I mean it's yes, yes, yes, yes, like you. I
Speaker 2: hope that it's I mean it's relatable. Right, everybody has
Speaker 2: disagreements and arguments and hurt feelings and insecurities and accusations
Speaker 2: and denials and then apologies.
Speaker 1: All right, all the guys are going to listen to
Speaker 1: this and like, Wow, it's not just his girls, not
Speaker 1: just not just my girl, it's his too. And then
Speaker 1: all the women are going to say, Mmmm, she got
Speaker 1: an idiot just like me. We're all in this together together,
Speaker 1: so appreciate you all listening. Y'all know where to find
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I guess I'm on TikTok. Now you'll know
Speaker 1: where to find us at a V and TJ podcast
Speaker 1: on Instagram and we're there our personal accounts as well.
Speaker 1: But love you, baby, I love you too,