WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Jennifer Judd Pt. 2 0:00:46.480 --> 0:00:48.000 School of Humans. 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:53.000 Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold case murders in 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.200 an effort to raise public awareness invite witnesses to come 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:00.120 forward and present evidence that could potentially be further investigated 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.760 by law enforcement. While we value insights from family and 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:07.720 community members, their statements should not be considered evidence and 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:11.560 point to the challenges of verifying facts inherent in cold cases. 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.800 We remind listeners that everyone has presumed innocent until proven 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.080 guilty in a court of law. Nothing in the podcast 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.080 is intended to state or imply that anyone who has 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.600 not been convicted of a crime is guilty of any wrongdoing. 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:27.120 Thanks for listening. 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:34.120 On May eleventh, nineteen ninety two, twenty year old newlywed 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:38.120 Jennifer Judd was viciously attacked and murdered at home on 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.520 North Park Avenue in Baxter Springs, Kansas at two point 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.840 thirty that day, Jennifer's husband of nine days, Justin Jed, 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.840 came home from work and found his wife's body in 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:54.320 the kitchen. Thirty three years later, Jennifer's murder is still unsolved, 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.480 so we've been going back over the timeline and wondering 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:00.640 if there was something that police missed. As we said 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.560 last week, there were several things that were unusual going 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.920 on in the day Jennifer was murdered, including the fact 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:10.080 that at around eleven forty five that day, Justin's friend 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:14.160 Chuck Chance, showed up at Justin's work. Chuck hung out 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:16.200 with Justin for a couple of hours and was with 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.360 him when he shift ended at two thirty. Then they 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.840 drove back to Justin and Jennifer's apartment. When Justin got home, 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.880 he noticed that Jennifer's car was in the driveway, and 0:02:26.920 --> 0:02:29.680 when he and Chuck got to the door, it was unlocked. 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:35.480 Once they got inside, Justin found a horrific sight. Jennifer 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.040 was lying on the kitchen floor in a pool of blood. 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.080 Her killer had attacked her and stabbed her multiple times 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.400 with so much for that the knife broke off in 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:49.800 her body, and the killer went back for a second knife. 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.680 Last week, we talked about how over the years police 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:57.440 considered several suspects, but so far no one has been 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:02.480 arrested or charged. Jennifer's case, however, does have ties to 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.440 a man who claimed to have killed over twelve women 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.880 around the country and was charming enough to be nicknamed 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:13.080 the redneck Ted Bundy, and this serial killer wasn't just 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:17.720 a random stranger. He actually knew Justin Judd. He was 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.720 someone who lived in Baxter Springs, was Justin's neighbor, and 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.320 when on a killing spree shortly after Jennifer was murdered. 0:03:26.640 --> 0:03:29.760 I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past eight years of making 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.080 my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned that there's 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.760 no such thing as a small town where murder never happens. 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:40.080 I've received hundreds of messages from people all around the 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.960 country asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.920 their families, and their communities. If you have a case 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.120 you'd like me and my team to look into, you 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.240 can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.320 Line at six seven eight seven four four, six one 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.240 four or five. That's six seven eight seven four four, six, 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:01.960 one four or five, or you can send us a 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:06.960 message on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. This is Helen Gone 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:54.600 Murder Line. We talked to Justin and he told us 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.360 last week that, according to what he had been told 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:02.240 by police, law enforcement considered his friend shut Chance a suspect, 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:07.800 but Justin still has questions about Chuck's story. Justin claims 0:05:07.840 --> 0:05:11.040 that back when they first talked to police, he believed 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.240 he caught Chuck in an inconsistency. 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:19.040 Yeah, he got cleared by DNA, but still, in my mind, 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:21.600 the way he acted that day and stuff, And I mean, 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:23.680 who goes to somebody to work and sits there has 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:25.640 a shift with them, you know, whether it worked, I 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.280 mean it, and he'd never done that before, and he 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.960 just acted really strange that day, and still in my 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:34.400 mind there's still something there. We went to the police 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.280 station and we both wrote down, you know, they want 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.440 to detail everything that happened that day, from what you 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.520 had for breakfast, you know, every little detail you could 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.120 remember of your day. And I wrote that down, you know, 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.840 and he'd done all his stuff down, and there was 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:53.320 a discrepancy. He told me at work that he went 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.520 to a job interview in Pittsburgh, which is a few 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.640 miles away, and then he went to his sister's house, 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.320 which lived out by my parents outside of Quapas, and 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:04.680 changed clothes and then come to my work. Well, he 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:06.800 calls me and he says, why did you tell the 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.600 KBI that I went to my sisters and changed clothes 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:11.320 and I said, well, because you told me you went 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.360 to your sister's and changed clothes, doesn't No, I didn't. 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:17.320 And right then, that's whenever I thought, because the KBI 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:19.280 was already trying to convince me that you know, this 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.360 is the guy that had done it. And right then 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:22.760 I just told him, I said you better get a 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.320 lawyer and hung the phone up. And what she did, 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:27.080 and he pled the fifth and then come to find 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:31.120 out he'd actually went to the bank in Commers and 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.120 went to his house and Commers and stuff. In my mind, 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.320 the reason why he wanted to recant on telling me 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.280 that he went to his sisters is because his sister 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:41.160 had a babysitter there and he didn't actually go to 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.400 his sisters, So you know, he knew they was going 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.040 to be asked a question, so he tried to racing 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.280 that part of the story. So his stories just didn't 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:51.280 add up on what he done that day. 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:56.440 Again, Chuck has never been arrested or charged in connection 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:00.000 with Jennifer's murder. All of this is just Justin's opinion. 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:04.960 Justin also questioned another element of Chuck's story, the one 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.840 that Chuck told police about going to the gym right 0:07:07.840 --> 0:07:10.800 after he left his house that morning at around seven am. 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.800 He told police he had used the whirlpool and showered, 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.800 then headed to Justin and Jennifer's house and then to 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:21.560 Justin's work. Because Chuck told police he and Justin had 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.320 talked about going to the gym that afternoon after they 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:28.240 left Justin's work and stopped to check on Jennifer. Justin 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.200 said they did talk about going to the gym that afternoon, 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.680 but he questioned why Chuck would have stopped at the 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.360 gym twice that day. He said, twice a day workouts 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:42.080 were not something that Chuck did normally, so Justin questioned 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:42.960 that part of the story. 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.720 And plus he had went and worked out that morning, 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.600 and his excuse stopping by the house was to say 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.040 that he would come by to see if I wanted 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:55.600 to work out, And in nineteen ninety two, he didn't 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.520 work out twice a day. That wouldn't a think was 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.960 every other day work out? So did that porgonomic sense? 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:05.120 Either was Jennifer's killer someone who knew her and killed 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.080 her in a rage that was personal or could this 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.360 have been a stranger, maybe someone who was obsessed with Jennifer. 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:16.960 Jennifer's body showed no signs of sexual assault. But some 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.280 studies do show a link between overkill meaning a high 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:25.560 number of stab wounds, and sexual motives, but Jennifer's murder 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.720 didn't seem to fit the textbook definition of those criteria. 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.600 Most studies mentioned twenty five or more stab winds and 0:08:32.680 --> 0:08:36.920 other factors like victims being positioned in sexual poses after death. 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.880 We have not seen crime scene photos, so we don't 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.600 know for sure if Jennifer's body was moved, but just 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:45.960 And did mention it seemed to him as though her 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.800 shirt might have been pulled over her stab wounds, he believed, 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.920 maybe in an attempt to disguise them, or maybe just 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.680 because her body was moved slightly which pulled the shirt up. 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.360 But from what Justin described and what has been publicized 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:03.240 about the crime scene, Jennifer's body did not appear to 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:08.840 be overtly sexually staged. There was physical evidence at the 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:12.480 crime scene, including fingerprints on the knife piece that was 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:16.120 sticking out of Jennifer's back, but law enforcement has never 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:20.360 publicly revealed exactly what kind of testing was done on 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:24.440 that murder weapon. Over the years, there have been several 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:28.880 people named as possible suspects by police. One was a 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:33.200 man named Jeremy Jones. Jeremy Jones was born on April twelfth, 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:36.720 nineteen seventy three. In nineteen ninety, he was a teenager 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.800 and assaulted a high school classmate of his. That classmate's 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:44.280 mother actually came to the young man's defense, and then 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.120 Jeremy turned on the mom and assaulted her as well. 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.680 But Jeremy could turn on the charm. Charges in that 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:54.400 assault were eventually dropped, and in high school, apparently he 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.880 was a ladies man who hooked up with a lot 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:00.360 of women. In nineteen ninety five, Jeremy was arrested for 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.600 his first rape, but he paid his bill and was released. 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.880 In nineteen ninety six, Jeremy was arrested in Oklahoma. This 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.880 time he was charged with rape and possession of methamphetamy. 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.160 He was convicted of the drug charges and sentenced to 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:18.280 two years in prison. Jeremy mainly worked odd jobs in 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.760 construction for many years. He traveled around and did not 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:25.800 have a fixed address. After being paroled in nineteen ninety seven, 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:29.080 he was re arrested in connection with the rapes. He 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.280 ended up pleading guilty to assault and sexual harassment and 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:36.160 was put on probation for five years. In two thousand, 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.040 a warrant was issued for his arrest. He became a 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:43.440 suspect in two more rapes. Jeremy moved to Joplin, Missouri, 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.240 and met a woman whose son was in prison. The 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.840 son's name was John Paul Chapman, so Jeremy ended up 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:53.560 using his charm to convince John Paul Chapman's mother to 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:57.320 sell him her son's identity for fifty dollars. From that 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:02.440 moment on, Jeremy Jones became John Paul Chapman. In October 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.240 of two thousand and three, Jeremy was arrested in Georgia. 0:11:05.560 --> 0:11:10.200 He was charged with indecent exposure and disorderly conduct when 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:13.240 he was arrested, even though since two thousand he was 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.320 technically a wanted man and there were warrants out on him. 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.760 When law enforcement finger printed Jeremy, and when his prints 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:24.440 were run through the FBI's Integrated Automatic Fingerprint Identification System, 0:11:24.680 --> 0:11:27.920 law enforcement got a match, but not to his real name, 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:31.920 Jeremy Jones. Instead, police got a hit to his alias, 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:36.320 John Paul Chapman. So police never figured out that this 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.080 guy's real name was Jeremy Jones, or that he was 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.720 wanted in Oklahoma on a rape charge. Instead, he was 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:46.720 released the next year. In two thousand and four, Jeremy 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:50.720 was arrested again, this time charged with criminal trespassing, but 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:55.720 once again that finger printing system failed. Once again, Jeremy 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:59.360 was released. This happened two more times. He would be 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.880 arrested and charged and released after the finger printing system 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.440 failed to find a match. This meant that Jeremy Jones 0:12:07.560 --> 0:12:10.600 was a free man, free to rape and free to kill. 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.800 And it wasn't long before he found his next victim. 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:19.000 On September eighteenth, two thousand and four, Hurricane Ivan was 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:23.680 hitting Mobile, Alabama hard. In that chaos, forty four year 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.960 old Lisa Marie Nichols was fatally shot in her home 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:31.320 in Turnerville, Alabama. Her killers set her body on fire 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:35.000 in her bathroom. The fire spread and burned down her house. 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:39.560 Lisa's mutilated body was found among the smoldering remains of 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.480 her home. After his arrest in two thousand and four, 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.920 police discover Jeremy Jones had shown up at the home 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.360 of a local couple who lived near Lisa. He was 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:52.560 pretending to be John Paul Chapman. The couple believed him 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:55.960 and they let him do some construction work. At some point, 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:58.760 Lisa Nichols, who was a neighbor, showed up at their house. 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.600 Jeremy waited until everyone had left, then he took a 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.240 six pack of beer to Lisa's house, where he broke 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:09.640 in and raped her. Police found a fingerprint on a 0:13:09.680 --> 0:13:13.000 beer can at the crime scene. When they ran it, 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.200 it was a match for John Paul Chapman, but when 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.840 they sent the information on John Paul Chapman to Missouri, 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.440 the authorities in Missouri said the real John Paul Chapman 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.440 was behind bars there. So authorities tracked down John Paul 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:30.480 Chapman's last known address. They talked to his mother. That's 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.880 when they realized that John Paul Chapman they were looking 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:38.120 for was actually someone else, and the real John Paul 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.040 Chapman's mother gave law enforcement the name of the man 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.840 who'd bought her son's id for fifty dollars, Jeremy Brian Jones. 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:49.600 Police arrested Jeremy a few days after Lisa's remains were found. 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:56.240 At first, he denied killing Lisa, but eventually he confessed 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.400 to her rape and murder. But that was just the beginning. 0:13:59.960 --> 0:14:03.800 Jeremy Jones eventually confessed to more than a dozen murders 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.920 across several states, and one of them was Jennifer Judd. 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:13.360 In fact, Jeremy said Jennifer Judd was his first killed. 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.600 After getting arrested for the murder of Lisa Nichols, Jeremy 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:32.320 ended up admitting to thirteen murders in six states. He 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.680 told police he had killed even more people, he said 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.240 as other victims were sex workers, mainly concentrated in the 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:43.880 areas of Atlanta, Georgia, and Mobile, Alabama. Jeremy said that 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.240 he had murdered Jennifer Judd in nineteen ninety two. But 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:52.080 was that actually true. Was Jeremy Jones credible or did 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.000 he just confess as he later claimed, to get better 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:58.280 conditions in prison, or maybe because he had nothing to 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:03.760 lose or to gain status inside prison, Jeremy was telling 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.320 the truth about at least some of his crimes. There 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.240 were three murders the police were able to link him 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.920 to definitively. One of his victims was a sixteen year 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.480 old named Amanda Greenwell. She went missing on March twelve, 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.160 two thousand and four. Her remains were found in Douglasville, Georgia, 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:24.160 a few weeks later. Amanda had been stabbed multiple times 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:29.720 and strangled. Jeremy's girlfriend, Vicky Freeman, provided some corroborating evidence. 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.880 When police talked to Vicki, she told them that on 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.320 the day Amanda Greenwell vanished, Jeremy had come home from 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.880 doing drugs for days, and when he came home, he 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:44.320 had unexplained scratches on him. Police were all also able 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:48.080 to conclusively link Jeremy to the brutal murder of Catherine Collins. 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.280 Catherine's body was found in February of two thousand and 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:55.840 four in New Orleans. Jeremy said he met Catherine Collins 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.240 in the French Quarter when he went to New Orleans 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:02.040 for Marty Grass. He said he ended up doing methamphetamine 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:06.280 during a week long binge. He claimed he and Catherine 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.880 went to an abandoned house to do drugs and have sex, 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.280 but he said after she took her clothes off, he 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:14.680 refused to pay her. He said after that they got 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.720 into an argument and that Catherine tried to run away, 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:20.600 but he said he tackled her to the ground while 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:25.360 she was naked and stabbed her multiple times. He told police, 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.680 quote the bitch deserved it end quote. Jeremy said he 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.680 stabbed Catherine Collins in the eye, strangled her, and mutilated 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:39.080 her vagina. After examining Catherine's autopsy report and comparing her 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:42.960 injuries to the ones Jeremy described, police decided his story 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:47.280 matched her graphic and horrific injuries, and so they charged 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:51.680 him with Catherine's murder. Police took Jeremy's confessions of meth 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:55.840 fuel murder seriously. They believe there could be more victims 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.400 out there. They searched Jeremy's storage unit in two thousand 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:03.000 and four. They found photographs of several different women. They 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.920 made these photos public and asked that anyone who knew 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:10.320 who these women were to come forward. So the women did. 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.840 One was one of Jeremy's family members, others just some 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.960 random women he knew. Eventually, all of the women were 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.320 identified from those photos. They were all confirmed as being 0:17:20.360 --> 0:17:25.560 alive and safe. One of Jeremy's alleged victims was Tina Mayberry. 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.320 Tina was stabbed to death after attending a Halloween party 0:17:29.360 --> 0:17:33.440 in Douglasville, Georgia. She was at a place called Gibson's Restaurant. 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.560 In two thousand and two, She went outside and came 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.320 back inside the bar covered in blood. This attack happened 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:43.640 very quickly. She was rushed to the hospital but lay 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.120 or died of her stab wounds. Like in Jennifer's case, 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.520 there was no robbery and no obvious signs of rape 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:55.080 or sexual assault. However, police were unable to link Jeremy 0:17:55.120 --> 0:17:57.680 to that killing, but they did find out that he 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.440 had been in that area. Jeremy Jones was a regular 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.840 at Gibson's during that time period, so some of his 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:09.720 confessions are unclear, and in other cases he appeared to 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.720 be stretching the truth or lying outright, like the unsolved 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.720 kidnapping and murder of sixteen year old Laura Bible and 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.600 Ashley Freeman, along with Ashley's parents, Kathy and Danny Freeman 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:25.160 in Welch, Oklahoma. Laura and Ashley were two friends who 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.120 were hanging out at Ashley's house to celebrate her sixteenth 0:18:28.120 --> 0:18:32.480 birthday on December twenty ninth, nineteen ninety nine. Early the 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:36.280 next morning, on December thirtieth, law enforcement responded to reports 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.720 of a fire at the house. Once the blaze was extinguished, 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.960 they found the bodies of Ashley's parents, Danny and Kathy 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.440 inside the home. Both of them had been fatally shot 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:50.160 before the home was set on fire. Laura and Ashley 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:54.920 were gone. No trace of them was ever found. During 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.160 that two thousand and four confession, Jeremy claimed he had 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.720 killed the two teens and dumped their bodies in a 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:04.560 mind shaft that mine was a real place, but when 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.400 police searched in the spot where Jeremy claimed he dumped 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:12.080 the remains, they found no trace of the teen's bodies. Later, 0:19:12.360 --> 0:19:16.240 Jeremy recanted these confessions, but police couldn't figure out how 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.880 even though he lied about the body locations, how Jeremy 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:24.160 seemed to have details about that crime scene, details police 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.680 say had not been made public at that time. In 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:31.360 twenty eighteen, a local drug dealer named Ronnie Dean Busick 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.360 was arrested in charge with four counts of first degree 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:39.120 murder in connection with Ashley and Laura's murders. Witnesses told 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:43.120 police that Ronnie and two other men, Warren Philip Welch 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:46.200 the second and David Pennington, who were both dead at 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.800 the time of Ronnie's arrest, bragged about holding the girl's 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:54.680 captive and eventually raping and murdering the teens and taking 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:58.800 photographs of them. The torture and the fate that these 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:02.640 young women suffered was horrific, but there was no evidence 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:07.520 that Jeremy Jones was involved in any way. Jeremy also 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:11.560 claimed he killed Patrese Andres, a mother who worked at 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:15.680 a hairdressing salon in Coming, Georgia on April fifteenth, two 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.680 thousand and four. Patrese was having a normal day at work, 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:23.000 and then sometime during lunch, in what police later said 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.280 was only a thirteen minute window of time, she vanished 0:20:27.360 --> 0:20:30.960 without a trace. Patrese's lunch was still there at the 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:35.560 salon Uneaten, her car was parked outside in the parking lot. 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:40.000 She was just gone. Jeremy told investigators that he dumped 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.880 her body into a creek, but when police looked in 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:46.280 the area where Jared described disposing of her remains, they 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:50.120 found nothing. He blamed his wrong information on the fact 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.600 that he had been on meth at the time. Jeremy 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:56.120 blamed a lot of his wrong information on the fact 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:58.320 that he was doing a lot of drugs. That he 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:00.000 was on meth at the time of a lot of 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:03.080 the killings. He said because of that drug use, his 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:07.080 memory was faulty. Later, though, on December six, two thousand 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:11.400 and five, Patrese's remains were found behind Lebanon Baptist Church 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:15.400 in Dawson County. Now, this was sixty to seventy miles 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:19.600 from where Jeremy Jones claimed he had dumped Patrese. Patrese's case, 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:24.000 by the way, is still unsolved, so after they realized 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:28.440 Jeremy had given them wrong information, police started doubting Jeremy's 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:32.280 involvement in the other murders he was claiming. But Jeremy 0:21:32.360 --> 0:21:34.840 had been telling the truth about the murders of Lisa, 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:39.800 Catherine and Amanda, like the unsolved murder of Tina Mayberry, 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:42.880 which Jeremy claimed to have committed, though police were never 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.680 able to conclud lusively link him to that killing. Jeremy 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:50.360 was in proximity of the place where Justin and Jennifer lived, 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:55.320 Baxter Springs, and it turned out he also knew Justin 0:21:55.440 --> 0:22:00.040 Judd personally. It's been reported that Jeremy was in the 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.400 Baxter Springs area in nineteen ninety two, but that he 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.000 broke up with his girlfriend in late nineteen ninety two 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:10.000 and left the area. But there have also been a 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:14.720 lot of rumors online about Jeremy's connection to Justin Judd 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:17.440 that aren't true that they were friends in high school. 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.240 For example, Justin says he never met Jeremy until years 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:25.560 later in the mid nineties after Jennifer's murder. At the time, 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.640 Justin was married. He said Jeremy moved next door to 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:31.880 him with his girlfriend at the time. Justin claim they 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:34.840 never even had a real conversation, though he said he 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:38.840 did hear Jeremy and his girlfriend getting into loud arguments. 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:42.880 Jeremy Jones had claimed that he and Justin hung out 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:47.240 together and said that never happened. Jeremy Jones also claimed 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:50.280 that at one point he worked with Chuck Chance. We 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:54.320 have no idea if that's true or not. Again, Jeremy 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:57.320 Jones lied a lot, so we have to take everything 0:22:57.360 --> 0:23:03.920 he said with a massive grain of salt. Was Jeremy 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:07.600 Jones lying or telling the truth about Jennifer Judd. That's 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:10.640 what Jennifer's family was trying to figure out after he confessed. 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:13.880 Some of them wondered if Jeremy could have been the 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:18.960 stalker who was supposedly frightening Jennifer. Remember, Jennifer's father said 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:21.520 that Jennifer thought someone might have been following her to work, 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:24.520 and later that someone had pounded on the door and 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:29.360 scared her. Jeremy Jones claimed that he stalked Jennifer for 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:31.960 several days before he showed up to her apartment and 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:36.080 fatally stabbed her. According to what Jennifer's father said in 0:23:36.120 --> 0:23:39.960 the press, Jennifer told someone at her apartment complex that 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:42.600 she had gotten freaked out when a few days before 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:45.800 the murder, someone was pounding on the front door hard. 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:48.800 She believed they were trying to get inside, so she 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:52.080 actually ended up hiding behind the sofa and the person 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:56.720 eventually went away. Could Jeremy Jones have been the person 0:23:56.760 --> 0:24:12.840 who knocked on Jennifer's door that day. Jeremy told police 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:15.960 that he met Jennifer at a party. He claimed they 0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:18.760 started seeing each other romantically and that they were having 0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:21.520 an affair at the time of the murder. Now, Jennifer's 0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:24.600 family says these claims are ridiculous. There's no evidence this 0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:28.480 ever happened. In fact, there is zero evidence that Jeremy 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:32.080 ever met Jennifer at all. Jeremy claimed the reason for 0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:34.920 killing Jennifer was because she did not return his feelings 0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:39.240 he told police he murdered her due to unrequited love. 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:43.720 Could Jeremy have been lying about his relationship with Jennifer 0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:48.400 but telling the truth about killing her. There were some 0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:51.760 details that did not seem to match. One thing that 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:54.840 didn't match was that police asked Jeremy Jones to describe 0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:58.480 what Jennifer's duplex looked like where her body was. He 0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:03.040 reportedly drew a sketch for investigators. Now, according to media reports, 0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:06.800 the drawing of the home he did was different than 0:25:06.880 --> 0:25:10.840 the reality of the layout of her home, But Jennifer's 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:13.520 duplex looked different in nineteen ninety two than it did 0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:15.960 in two thousand and five when Jeremy drew the sketch 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:21.160 for detectives. The investigator claimed that Jennifer's home did look 0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:25.120 more like his drawing back in nineteen ninety two. Jeremy 0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:28.000 also apparently got the type of soda that had been 0:25:28.040 --> 0:25:30.600 at the crime scene wrong. It was a minute may, 0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:33.640 he called it something else. There were also some other 0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:38.040 details that didn't quite match. Still, Alabama authorities who took 0:25:38.120 --> 0:25:41.160 Jeremy's confession apparently took him seriously enough to tell the 0:25:41.200 --> 0:25:44.040 police in Kansas about it, and the police last in 0:25:44.120 --> 0:25:50.760 Kansas did interview Jeremy Jones in two thousand and five. 0:25:51.120 --> 0:25:54.320 The fingerprinting mistake that had set Jeremy free and allowed 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:58.480 him to kill three women made national news. The fact 0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:01.400