WEBVTT - Timing is everything w/ Nash Ahmed 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:02.719 Maybe see you check us out of the first Black 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.760 Effact Podcast Festival, happening Sunday, August in Brooklyn, New York. 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:09.799 Tickets are available at black effact dot com. Forward Last 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:14.520 Podcast Festival and live podcasts of your favorite shows are happening. 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:16.680 I'm so excited because this is the first time I've 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:18.400 ever been able to do I've been to a podcast 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.239 a long time, and this is my first ever time 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:24.880 being able to do one live in front of an audience. 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:27.520 So come through, come check us out. Eighty five South 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:29.560 is gonna be there. All the smoke's gonna be there, 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.160 Black Tech, Green Money's gonna be there. Get tickets today 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:36.479 at black Effact dot com, Forward Last Podcast Festival. Will 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:38.919 Lucas here. We're gonna go back just a little bit 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.600 and introduced to my guy Nash, a man who's a 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.000 serial entrepreneur and the founder and CEO of Undocked, an 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:48.280 AI meeting platform built for the future of work, and 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.160 he embought a year so ago. He raised a one 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.080 point six million dollars seed round to put some fuel 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:56.320 in the tank to grow the business. And I asked Nash, 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.640 but how previously before he found it Undocked, He found 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.720 himself running multiple small businesses at one time, and how 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.440 running those businesses led him to founding this company. Yeah, 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:11.240 the second wave of multiple businesses was running into because 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:14.480 they're all tangentially related. So I was in the telecommunications 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:16.920 industry and there would be an opportunity. I'm like, well, 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.839 this business doesn't do it, but it looks easy enough. 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:22.120 It looks like there's a lot of money in this 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:25.120 so uh yeah, I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna try it, 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:28.360 and I end up starting to businesses. One was a 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:30.840 voice over IP company and the other it was an 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:35.120 infrastructure company, so literally installing the fiber optic cable that 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:39.399 runs to your house. Um, you believe as I've read 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.520 in the concept of shipping fast and getting getting your 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:45.920 thing out into the wild as quickly as possible, And 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:50.040 how important, how important has been has building in the 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.120 public eye, you know, and making mistakes in public you know, 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:56.680 and iterating in full view been to the success you've 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.920 achieved so far. It's the best for saying function you 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.559 could have, especially for someone like me who has two 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:08.120 major problems with giving things to the world that you're building. 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:14.440 I uh, procrastinate and I'm a perfectionist, right so that 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:16.640 gives me every reason to say this is not ready 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.640 for consumption yet. So I have songs that I've made 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:23.440 ten years ago or started ten years ago, and I'm like, 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:28.520 that trumpet is not hitting. Do it again, do it again, 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.520 find another person to play this melody like. So doing 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.760 something in public with like public deadlines is huge for me. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:37.800 I've started doing that. You'll see we we had an 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:41.560 event November twelve. We're having another event, uh February seventeen. 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:46.800 We're having another event uh May twelve. So whatever I'm planning, 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.239 it's going to happen, and it has to happen because 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.640 it's out in the public eye. So it's a very 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:53.960 good forcing function for me to make sure that I 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:59.000 keep building and delivering and not waiting for perfection. So 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:01.760 so you encourage people too, even if they haven't, you know, 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.799 told the world the whole thing, put it out. I 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.839 have not that something is happening on this day. Yes, 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:13.360 I've only given uh tidbits of the big picture publicly, 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.320 but like I said, I'm calling it progressive disclosure of 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:20.960 what the startup UH fully is. So I encourage just 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:23.880 even if you start with your your friends and your family, 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:25.760 just telling them like, hey, I'm working on this, So 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.720 the next time you speak, we're gonna say, hey, Will, 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:31.520 how's that thing you're working on going? And that's just 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.480 more motivation to to put it out there for sure? 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.760 Do you think that's just for people who have, you know, 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.320 this idea, they's got to be perfect? Or do you 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.600 do you encourage anybody you know, whether or not they 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.200 they're going a hundred miles an hour thus miles an hour, 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.480 or if they're just afraid to put it out who 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:51.440 do you think? Who do you advise that too? Well, 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:53.840 I'll tell your idea is definitely not going to be perfect. 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.240 There's a high likelihood that your idea is going to 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:58.680 be wrong and you're gonna end up building something else. 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:01.160 So that's why you kind of have to just get started. 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:03.240 But if you're a person that has a lot of 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.960 ideas like I did, at least spend a little bit 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.520 of time filtering through those ideas and putting some logic 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.760 and reasoning behind why you think this idea of yours 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.960 is better than the next idea. There is no excuse 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.920 to ever work on an idea that isn't your best idea. 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:22.720 If you don't think it's your best idea. If you 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:24.440 don't think it's your biggest idea, if you don't think 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.360 it's your thing that's going to get you widespread impact, 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:31.839 don't work on that one. Work on your best idea, period. 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.360 And that's what I did. It took me almost a 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:40.320 year talking about procrastination and perfectionists to select which startup 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:42.159 I actually wanted to work on, and then when I 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.800 narrowed it down to two, I launched them or I 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.560 registered them both and was planning to work on them 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:49.960 simultaneously until I can make a decision. So I have 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.880 that like crippling disorder where I just like, yeah, but 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.719 I selected on DOC, and uh, that was the right 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:59.680 decision for sure. I want to dig in on that 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:01.799 because you know, I think that's a really, really good 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.839 piece of advice and to only work on your best idea. 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.440 So I would imagine there's like two groups of people. 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:09.640 That's people who have they know what that best idea 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:11.080 and there's people who are trying to figure out what 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.840 that best idea is. Um for those ones that are 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:15.440 trying to figure out, I would imagine you would say 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:19.159 work on things like you did until you figure out 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:22.000 which one is the best idea. How do you know 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.240 when it's the best ideas because you came up with, oh, 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:26.640 this is the this is the one I want to do, 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:31.000 or the market told you right. Uh, it could be 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:32.960 either or sometimes you have to do have to go 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:37.120 with your gut. But for me, it was a lot 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:40.800 of It was almost fifty different ideas and websites that 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.159 I had started, and for me, it was which one 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:48.479 do I genuinely think can have the biggest impact, the 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:53.400 biggest distribution, and then the biggest financial outcome for myself 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:55.400 and also one that I was excited to work on. 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.719 It was a big problem for myself and it was 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.800 on the back burner for quite some time. And then 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.120 I'm literally living the experience where like I need to 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.720 solve this problem that I have and nothing else exists. 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:11.200 That was a moment for me that was like, Okay, 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.000 I need to build something and I've already had this 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:18.159 idea and now I'm going to execute on that. So yeah, 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:19.960 not all of your ideas are good. So I can 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.640 easily look back at a third of those ideas and 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:26.679 say they are holy trash? Right now? Is this because 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:29.280 you you found out later they were trash? How did 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:34.400 you go through that process of distance so recently. Bias 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.480 is something that you deal within data, but it's also 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.080 something you deal with with yourself. That that moment, that 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.280 initial in sighting moment that you come up with any 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:46.200 idea you're like, yeah, that sounds good. Revisit that idea 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.640 in six months to see if you're like, Okay, I 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.320 mean it's cool, I guess, or maybe somebody might do it, 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:56.320 but uh yeah, giving it some time to marinate is 0:06:56.440 --> 0:07:02.640 very important. UM, talk about this a building a startum, 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:06.200 not specifically undocked, but period step by step, because if 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:10.840 I understand, UM, what's your opportunity was with undock was 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.720 you know? Cale Calendar synchronization is just the first step 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.800 in master plan, I would imagine, right, And I read 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.240 a story about where you come out. You came out 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.320 the gate thinking you could replace all the big boys 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:26.400 like Gmail, Slack, you, Zoom, Trelo, you know immediately and 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.200 but how important is it for startups to take out 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:34.200 chunks on their journey and as they do the smaller 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:38.280 things well scale from there. I think that's huge. That's 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.280 one of the biggest lessons that I learned because I 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.280 was stubborn in the beginning, I was like, no, I know, 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.600 I know, I can build this huge platform that's going 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.040 to be better than all of them. And one investor 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:51.320 reached out to me and was interested, and they said, 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:57.480 but you're competing with X, y Z before you've even 0:07:57.480 --> 0:07:59.680 released your product. It's like, you don't much money you're 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:03.760 gonna need. This doesn't sound realistic, And I didn't believe him. 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:05.240 Then I was like, no, I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do. 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.280 I'm gonna do it. It took me a good six 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:11.120 to nine months before I started to pare down the 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.560 short term scope of the product. And you're just you're 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:18.960 just limited in in capital, you're limited in engineering resources, 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:23.360 you're limited in time. You're limited in how well you 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:27.520 can solve more than one problem. Like calendar ing and 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.960 scheduling is such a deep, deep, nuanced problem. But I 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.160 could spend the next ten years if I wanted to 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.440 building the best scheduling or calendar application, if I thought 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:41.800 that was the most valuable thing. So, uh, it's really 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:43.520 really tough. And this is another thing where if you 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:45.560 take a step back from it. So if I would 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.400 have started and say, hey, here's my big idea, and 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.480 then started working on it, just take a step back 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.760 for like a week and talk about the realities of 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:59.079 building this giant, monolithic app. It wasn't going to happen 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.520 out of the gate. It was gonna a long, long, long, 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:03.760 long time. And if I would have actually made that 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:10.360 decision to pare it down even three months sooner, two 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:12.920 months sooner, a month sooner, I could be a month, 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.840 two months, three months, five months, six months further along. 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.760 So definitely definitely recommend that we're still building a really 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:22.040 big application, um, but not quite as big just yet. 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:25.959 So how do you advise other entrepreneurs and even yourself 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.520 looking back and in that discipline, because I would imagine 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:32.000 you think, well, if I just build this little nugget, 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:36.199 like what, how does that make progress in the marketplace 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:40.800 when people have all these other options. Yeah, for me, 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:45.840 it was definitely just like pure hubrists thinking I got 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.640 this not out and I'm hearing from multiple people just like, hey, 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.680 just just strink it a little bit, like I was doing. Email. 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.440 Email is so so so hard to build, and there 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:58.440 are companies that are have spent like Superhumans are really 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.040 good email application. They've been buil holding it for five, six, 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:06.200 seven years and they're still improving just email. UM. For 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:09.200 for me, I guess I probably wouldn't assume most people 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:13.720 are just overly competent in their ability to build something 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:15.240 like that. They just might think it's a really good 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:17.120 idea and someone should do it. And you see that 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.640 a lot like the all in one solution is like 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:22.840 the first thing UH founders gravitate to because like, oh, 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:24.800 I have all these problems. What if I build one 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.120 thing that solves all these problems? And that's usually going 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:32.840 to be the wrong solution. UM. One thing I love, 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.320 UM that I've I've read that you've said before is 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.160 you know, entrepreneurs need to learn how to talk about 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.520 their business, right and UM, And that there's a difference 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.599 between talking how you talk about your business at a 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:49.440 bootstrapping stage, um, and versus when you're at a fundraising stage. 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.880 And so let's take this step by step. So, how 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:55.760 how can entrepreneurs at the bootstrapping stage, and even those 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:59.160 who don't plan to raise maybe they're building a lifestyle company, UM, 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:02.400 how can they learn to introduce their product or their 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:06.120 company to other people who have no idea what they're doing. Yeah, 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:11.200 I'm actually going through a third phase and I'm I'm 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:15.280 I don't say recalculating, I am studying this phase and 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.680 learnings like in uh put it down in writing and 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.679 repeat it later down the line. I'll get into that 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:24.280 in a second. But the first thing I think you 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:25.680 need to do is have and I say this to 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.040 a lot of founders that I meet with, is have 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:31.600 something really exciting about what you're building, even if it's 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.640 like a sock company or something. Have something really really 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:38.560 exciting for you, exciting way to tell it to your 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:41.400 your friends, exciting way to tell it to potential customers. 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.319 It has to be. There's so much noise out there 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.640 in the world that if your thing isn't exciting, it's 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:49.640 never going to take off. So find something exciting about 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.600 your your business. Uh. I spent a lot of time 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:58.160 in my accelerator working on a one line description of 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.920 the company, and that like her sometimes like, but no, 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.400 I can't just say all of it in one line. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.400 But find something exciting about your business that you can 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.040 iterate in one line. You can message somebody to say, Hey, 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.120 this is what I'm building and they're like, oh, really, 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.680 really really cool. So that's like the first hurdle, Like, 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.760 is it something that's exciting for people, and that doesn't 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.840 always play like if you're a climate tech company, that's 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.520 only going to excite a certain number of people. But 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:24.440 if you're building a consumer app or a B two 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.040 B app, something has to be exciting about what you're 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.640 building in the in the early bootstrapping phase, it helps 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:35.440 you stay positive about your idea. It helps you track 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.679 interest from customers, and helps you recruit employees too. I 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:42.319 had the easiest time recruiting. I still have a pretty 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.240 easy time recruiting when we talk about what we're building. UM, 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:47.199 So I think that's really important. But when you move 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.679 into the fundraising stage, before you get it, before you 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.280 get there. So let's look that's because it's really interesting 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.640 when you said, you know, you spent you know a 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:59.560 lot of time just working on one sentence at least 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:04.080 six weeks. Wow. Yeah, And it changed and it fluctuated, 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:05.600 and in the times you get frustrated and you're like 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:07.520 why am I doing this? I think after week three 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.600 and I was like, I'm not changing this sentence again, 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.520 Like it doesn't matter, it does not matter. And ultimately 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:17.800 that one sentence wasn't what turned into business excitement or 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.080 fundraising all other stuff, but it was able. It was 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:24.120 giving you an opportunity to distill what you're working on. 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:26.440 If you cannot distill it in one sentence, is going 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.000 to be very hard to get people excited. So and 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.679 I would imagine and it's every word matters. When when 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:38.000 you're down to one sentence, yes, we learned, uh better, 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:42.760 fewer words, right, and try to enroll some excitement. So actually, 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:45.440 don't even use the line anymore. But it was a 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.880 line that worked over and over and over again. Yeah. 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:53.360 It was instantly scheduled meetings without ever looking at a calendar, right, 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:55.760 and then just wrinkles people's brain like what do you wait? 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.000 How instant meeting schedule of no calendar? Tell me more? 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.160 Every single time. And I was in a cohort with 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:04.960 twelve other companies, and when I would give that line, 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:09.200 regardless of the audience, room full of investors, potential customers, partners, 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:11.679 all the questions, not all, some of the questions, A 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:13.800 good chunk of the questions would come to me because 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.040 it piqued their interests, like this is a problem. You 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.360 stated what the problem was, You tell me how fast 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.040 you're gonna do it, and then you gave me this 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.680 novel away that's just like wrinkling my brain and I 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.800 don't like quite understand. I figure out, what what is this? 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.240 What is this? And I used that over and over 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.200 and over and over and over and over again. And 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:35.400 I did use it like in my demo investor pitch, 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.760 like as a one liar to start it. And I 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.360 also used it in our our launch thing, but from 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:47.680 like month four, two months, seven, eight, nine, ten, didn't 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:49.400 use it at all. But it was like the starting 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.320 for it's the kindling, right, and I can always refer 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.560 back to that too. And did that one line that's 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.960 six weeks that you spent on that one line? Where 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.280 how much progress did you make? Like did you raise 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:03.720 your first dollar with that? Like? Where did it get you? No? 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.440 Did not raise the first dollar. Um, it got me 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.400 a lot of places because the way I was talking 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.200 about the business going into the accelerator was it was 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.480 not great, it was not great, and I was trying 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:16.880 to fit a mouthful in and and say that this 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:18.840 this this this this this this this this this this 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:24.920 um it gave me uh again, like good framing and 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:27.600 good confidence when I delivered that line, and it was 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:31.120 the lead in for my investments. So when we started 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:35.440 doing our presentations to investors and we had a demo day, 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:39.240 like that was the like the thing that people remember 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:43.560 about that, well, two lines that people remembered about the presentation. 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:45.440 So I think it put me in a really good 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:50.000 place going into the investment. And if everybody, anybody asked, 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.440 you know, what is it you're working on, which is 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.600 a common question you get, it's also like an accelerated question. 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:57.520 They say what are you working on? And they always 0:15:57.560 --> 0:15:59.880 want a one sentence answer. That's the answer you give. 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.080 And so how how much would you estimate that most 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:06.960 opportunities are lost because people don't spend that time working 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:12.760 on that You're you're losing of people even just from 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.240 like the fact that they're no longer going to pay 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.240 attention to whatever it is coming out of your mouth. 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:22.800 After that, it's it's like eyes glazing over, not interested. 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.040 And there's some people and this is again I was 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.360 one of those people that you'll ask for like, hey, 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:28.960 what is it you're working on? And then they're the 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:30.760 only answer they can give you is like a five 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.800 minute answer. Actually said this for probably a good six 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.040 to nine months when I started the business. It's like 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.720 I can't explain what I'm working on in a couple 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:43.800 of sentences. But if you give me an hour, I 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.800 guarantee you're gonna want to use the product and invest. 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.520 And they're like, yeah, but you're not. You're not You're 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:53.600 not not getting an hour here. So um, it's very 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.040 it's very very very important. It'll change, it evolve. It 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.480 doesn't necessarily matter if that's the one right intents, but 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.480 the fact that you're able to distill what you do 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:04.920 and make it exciting and interesting in one sense, that 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.000 you can use that over and over and over. And 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.399 that's what the accelerator made us do. So whenever we 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:14.000 met a new mentor new potential partner, customer, or investor, 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.159 like that was the line, and that that was the 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.040 line that was critiqued. So by the end of it, 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.360 anybody that came into for critiquing just said, yeah, it's good, 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.240 I'm interested to tell me more. And that's all you want. 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:28.439 Your goal of telling people what your businesses or what 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:33.520 you're doing is for them to say, tell me more. Okay. 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:37.800 What's the different thing about the raising stage, about how 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.360 you talk about your business. It starts with that ability, 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:43.679 and that's something that investors will look at if you 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:47.360 have the ability to, you know, succinctly distill what you're 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.840 working on. But the conversation with investors is not the 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.200 conversation you have with your friends and your family. It's 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.120 not the conversation that you eventually ultimately have with customers 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.399 are already having with customers. They want to know about 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:04.080 potential scale, right, They want to know about differentiation in 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.680 the market. They want to know about your go to market, 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:08.320 and they want to know that you have deep, deep, deep, 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:13.119 deep deep product insights and know about your industry. And 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:15.200 it's not about like listing off a bunch of facts 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:18.040 that you read online. Is having a deep, deep, deep 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:22.480 understanding of that. And that's one thing, but then you 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:24.880 have to learn how to convey that to investors. So 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:27.560 we had our first two weeks of meetings with investors 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.959 and it was like, oh, that's cool, that's cool, Not 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.280 for us right now, not for us right now. And 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:37.080 we almost considered like backing the truck up and waiting 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.680 a few months to fundraise. Just kept getting at going 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:45.480 after it getting better refined. We would have like game 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:49.280 day breakdowns of our investor calls after the call happened like, Okay, 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.040 that answer was terrible, that answer was really long, that 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.159 answer was irrelevant, that answer was not compelling. You have 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.840 to be that real with yourself every single time, for 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.600 his long until you start to get that interest, until 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.000 those conversations start to go well. And that's what we 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.240 were doing. Breakdown if you had a twenty minute call 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.160 or an hour long call, even if the call went 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:12.960 great and they said they were interested, or if they're like, 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:15.840 let keep us in a loop, same thing. Break it 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:19.080 down what went well, what didn't go well. Some people 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:22.359 suggest even writing down all the questions that you had, 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:26.000 recording all the answers, listening back to that I didn't 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:29.560 do it. You know that deeply, have a pretty good memory, 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.800 and I'm I'm brutal with myself, Like I'll get off 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:35.960 a call an investoral like smile or say okay, cool, 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.119 I get that to an answer, I'll say that was 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:42.359 a terrible answer. That was a terrible, terrible, terrible answer. 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.560 You have to be that real with yourself. I want 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:49.120 to talk about more specifically on doc in the Future, 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:52.760 that you saw when you started building this um so covid. 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.520 You rarely get these moments when you're building something and 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.320 the world just accelerates to the future. You imagine gend 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.959 when you thought of the idea, right, and um, so 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.200 talk to me about how the pandemic and COVID remote 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.720 work plays into your startup success because you've been building 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.679 this for however long in the world just shot ahead, 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.639 you know, eight years or ten years. It was wild. 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:21.119 Like in my pitch deck before I started pitching investors 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:23.920 was essentially the pitch deck to get into an accelerator. 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:28.120 I was talking about the future of remote and distributed work, 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.680 and I say, it's coming, it's coming, It's on the rise. 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.040 I know it's a small percentage, but it's coming. And 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:36.280 when it gets here, it's here to stay. And I 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:41.760 had like charts talking about seven And then we go 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:44.320 to this accelerator. We come out of the accelerator, we 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:46.680 start fundraising, and in the middle of a pandemic where 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:49.520 everyone is literally forced to work at home, that end 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:53.520 and of itself is not enough for market change and correction. 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:58.720 The reason it's so poignant and important for us is 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.040 that it's better. It's just flat out better. It's a 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:04.680 better And it was an eventuality that we were going 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.760 to get to at some point there's a reason some 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:11.320 people work from home because it was better for not 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.879 for everyone, better for them. And I think eighty percent 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:21.600 of knowledge work can be done remotely. So of the mean, 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.760 not the fortune fire proners, not knowledge work, but eighty 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:28.560