WEBVTT - Induction - E3 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:13.480 Murder in Miami is a production of iHeartRadio. Previously on 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:18.840 Murder in Miami. Stanford was all too willing to dive 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.079 into the new role of private investigator. 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:23.520 I was an utter failure at it. I said, Bob, 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:25.599 I'm sorry. I said, oh, don't worry about it. And 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:29.440 he pulled out a roll of bills, peeled off five hundreds, 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:31.240 and he said, good work. 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:37.000 Why didn't the police or Intercept ever get to the 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:39.280 bottom of who killed Clay Williams. 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.920 It was a strange funeral anyway. Standing in the back 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:46.360 end of the trailer were about four or five very 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:52.519 big guys, obviously detectives. They were there to send a message. 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.640 As far as the family's concerned. They never had any 0:00:55.920 --> 0:01:00.480 true answers as to who murdered Clay or why. 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:05.880 I had understood from Clay that these were former intelligence 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:10.600 people from the federal government, whether it's CIA, Army intelligence, 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:12.120 they were all associated. 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.800 I think maybe Intercept had something to do with this death. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.039 I certainly didn't think so at the time, but the 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:20.360 more we look into it, the more possible it seems. 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.640 So what was the tie between the Central Intelligence Agency 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:25.560 and Miami. 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:31.320 It's still an open murder case in Miami Dade and 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:34.720 they can't find the papers. Makes you wonder, doesn't it. 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.600 Following up nineteen eighty's record of five hundred and seventy 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:46.119 three murders, nineteen eighty one would become Miami's deadliest year 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.920 to date. Just seven months into nineteen eighty one, Miami's 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:53.120 homicide count was already at two hundred and ninety six. 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.240 By the end of the year, the number would reach 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.360 six hundred and twenty one. Clay Williams was just one 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:04.360 of those murders. Perhaps that violence played into this strange 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:09.000 and surreal time. Bill Stamford soon found himself navigating before 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:14.280 his path would cross in person with Lamar Chester. I'm 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.639 Lauren bred Pacheco, and this is murder in Miami. 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.760 So it's nineteen eighty two and basically I'm hanging out 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:38.000 of the car Doza doing odd jobs for Intercept now 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:42.200 and then. But after a while the jobs head Interceptor 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.440 are drying up. Bob tells me that he can't hire 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:48.560 me full time unless I have a private investigator's license. 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:51.000 So I put in for the license, but they tell 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:53.960 me it'll take several months to get it. So right 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.400 about that I actually made some money selling ads for 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.560 telephone time and temperature for a guy named Uncle Dudley 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.399 who wore an ice cream suit and was really quite 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:10.240 a character himself. Today is Friday, June third, The current 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:15.520 time eleven forty five pm and the temperature seventy five degrees. 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:17.560 How did you connect with him? 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:21.119 That was another Ruth connection from Alabama. I'm sure she'd 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:21.960 met him back there. 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:23.640 Was it enough to pay the rent? 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:26.280 Yeah? I wasn't making that much money, but it was 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.160 enough to get by on. I was really kind of 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.760 drifting at that point, So that's why I decided how 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:35.080 to go back to Washington, D C. And see what 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:36.160 was cooking back there? 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:40.360 Were you second guessing your decision to walk away from 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:40.960 your career. 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:42.880 It's always sort of in the back of my mind. 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:47.360 I suppose Phil, you downplay it, but you had some 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:51.920 serious bylines before you moved to Miami. I mean, major 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.880 articles in the New York Times, the Columbia Journalism Review 0:03:55.920 --> 0:04:01.120 on defense and intelligence matters. That's an extreme impressive level 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:02.480 of success as a journalist. 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.280 Uh, yeah, I suppose. So what you've got to understand 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.640 I guess I've been trying to figure this out myself 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.400 as we've gotten along with the podcast, is what effect 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.400 that had on me? And head on all this? Yeah, 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.000 I wrote several pieces for the New York Times magazine. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.440 One piece I did for them to cover story about 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:26.160 nuclear missile submarines. It was a big success by journalistic standards. 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.440 All the major magazines in Europe reprinted it. Readers, Digest, 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.040 the New Yorker wrote a Talk of the Town article 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:38.360 about it. So I sat back and waited for the reaction. 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.960 I guess I expected the legislatures of the world to 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:47.240 do something recognizing the essential insanity of the nuclear arms race. 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.760 Once again, how dumb can you be? And shortly after that, 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:52.839 the New York Times asked me to do another piece. 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:57.279 This went on terrorism, and I knew this from my 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.520 dealings with them so far that it probably never even printed. 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:02.960 That they wouldn't want to hear what I had to 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:06.440 say about the terror bombing of North Vietnam, or the 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:11.160 Ragun or the Stern Gang. So I punted. That's when 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.440 I began my retreat. I took a job on that 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:17.600 little political magazine we've talking about. I dropped out, went 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:21.159 to Miami, wrote some crime stories for the Miami News, 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:22.600 and ended up working for Intercept. 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.599 Is it safe to say that you were disillusioned? 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:30.080 Yeah, except that I'd never really had that many illusions, 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.200 So I guess it cou'd be more accurate to say 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:32.920 I was printed out. 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:37.200 Maybe sitting around and hearing the former CIA and intelligence 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:42.560 guys it Intercept somewhat reignited Stanford's inner investigative urges, or 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:45.080 maybe it just made a missus former beat a bit. 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.360 But Bill decided to make a trip back to Washington 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:52.520 to reconnect with some former contacts, only to find some 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.000 doors had closed during his time away. 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.240 I'd only been away for a little over a year, 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:02.839 I guess, but going it seemed like a very strange place, 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:07.160 especially after the intensity of what I had felt in Miami. 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.640 And one thing was apparent right away. Everyone knew I'd 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:17.080 gotten off the ladder to success. And I think whether 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.520 they thought of that consciously or not entered into all 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:24.159 their considerations, or maybe they just sensed as I did, 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:29.159 that Miami had changed me somewhat in what way I'd 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.200 really gotten to see a glimpse into the way things 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.839 really work. Before everything had been sort of abstract nuclear strategy, 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:42.400 mega tonage political programs, that sort of thing. And along 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.359 the way it had occurred to me that the people 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:47.880 I considered the real criminals were the people who were 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.640 running things in Washington and other places. 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:55.320 Like that, a realization that led Stamford to reach out 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:56.919 to a like minded connection. 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.640 So I got in touch with an old friend, Sheen, 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.479 who had but I suppose most people would call a 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:09.960 radical peace and justice organization called the Christic Institute in Washington. 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:14.080 He was a Harvard trained lawyer. They were associated with 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:18.160 the Jesuits, and they used the legal system to achieve 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:18.720 their ends. 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.720 The Christic Institute was a non profit public interest law 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.640 firm founded in nineteen eighty by Danny Shean, his wife 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:29.760 Sarah Nelson, and a Jesuit priest named William Davis. The 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.400 firm was a unique and revolutionary model for social reform, 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:39.480 combining investigation, litigation, and education while mobilizing public support for 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.360 worthy causes. They sought to wield the law as a 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:46.160 weapon of progressive change against a number of daunting targets 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.400 like the KKK, the American Nazi Party, as well as 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.520 corrupt cops and federal agents. 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.800 Bob Adams, the guys head of the Detective Agency, had 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:00.720 been part of a military intelligence unity in Europe that 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:06.120 provided logistical support for assassinations conducted by the United States, 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:12.920 and I thought it offered a way to prove that 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:18.200 power did. Indeed, this is Mao's dictum. I believe that 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:20.840 power came from the barrel of a gun. I mean, 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:26.840 it probably sounded as stupid then as naive as it 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:31.160 does now, but that's how I was thinking. And in 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:35.240 any case, Danny offered me a monthly stipend of twenty 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.360 five hundred dollars a month, which was more than I 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.920 usually made as a freelance writer, for sure, And I 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.800 put everything in the car again and went back to Wyomi. 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:51.320 So now you're basically working as a private investigator, investigative 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:56.440 journalist investigating Intercept, a private investigation from. 0:08:58.360 --> 0:08:58.959 Yeah, I guess. 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.920 So you're lucky you didn't get yourself killed. 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.280 Yeah, I suppose so, although I don't know, maybe Bob 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:09.880 would have sort of enjoyed the deviousness of it. 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.800 That investigating Intercept would prove a bit inconvenient. 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.240 The funny part is that when I got back, I 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:23.080 went out to the office in Parne and it was closed. 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.280 It was shut down. There wasn't even a sign on 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:29.520 the door. Anymore that said Intercept. I should have known 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:32.280 something was up. When I was in DC. I'd gotten 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:35.800 a call from Ruth saying that a couple of federal 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.960 agents had knocked on her door one evening and asked 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:41.679 to talk to me. She said I'd moved out and 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.440 gone to Miami Beach some time ago, and she didn't 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.280 have a clue where I was. Then after they left, 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:49.840 of course, she called me and told me what had happened. 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:52.920 Did you wonder what they wanted? 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:56.880 Well, I knew it had something to do with Intercept, 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:59.440 but no, as far as I could see, I hadn't 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.520 done anything illegal. So I just sort of pushed it 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:04.280 out of my mind and forgot about it. 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:09.240 And at this point you also had a new girlfriend 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.640 who was probably a wonderful distraction. 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.680 Probably more than a distraction. Actually, yeah, I met Nicky 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.760 one night. There's a party on the roof of the 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:25.320 Cardozo and she was there with a girlfriend and struck 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:29.960 me as a slightly shorter version of Melanie Griffith, which 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:30.800 I liked very much. 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:35.680 Depending upon your age, you'd likely know actress Melanie Griffith 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:39.079 from films like Working Girl or Bonfire of the Vanities, 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.480 or as the daughter of Tipp Hendron, or the mother 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.760 of Dakota Johnson, who Griffith had with her then husband 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.840 Don Johnson, the star of Miami weis. For those unfamiliar 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:54.319 with any of the aforementioned, let's just say Phil found 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:55.679 Mickey very attractive. 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:01.920 So there I was, after a hiatus in Washington, d C. 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:07.080 Back in Miami or Miami Beach to be precise, or 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.760 even more precise, hanging out at the good old Cardozo 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.839 looking out at the ocean, getting twenty five hundred dollars 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:17.680 a month from the Christic Institute, doing virtually nothing. 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.000 That doesn't sound like such a bad life, no kidding. 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:26.960 And it was also an oddly unstructured, somewhat surreal period 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:28.160 in Stanford's life. 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:30.760 It was a great time. It was a strange time. 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:36.160 There was this jazz combo that played at the Cardoza 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:38.720 several nights a week, and I got to be friends 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.640 with a saxophone player whose name I can't remember now, 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:44.600 but I know he came from New Jersey and he 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.360 was down in Miami Beach hanging out with the rest 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.080 of us ne'er do wells. And he'd kid me seeing 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:52.640 me spending all the time on the porch at the 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:58.040 car Dozo, without any apparent source of income, and he says, Stanford, 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.360 what is your scan? What is your scam? And of 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.240 course I couldn't say I was getting paid for spying 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:08.160 on a detective agency that, for all practical purposes, didn't 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.679 exist anymore, but was affront for a major drug operation 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:16.760 with CIA connections that may or may not exist. So 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.480 I just smiled at him, and he'd say it again, 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.160 what is your scam? And it was a big joke 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:26.559 between us. Anyway. One day he said he was out 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.520 of towels, and so I said, well, I've got some 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:34.040 extra ones in my room. So I gave him three 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.640 or four towels and said just give him back to 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.199 me when you're done, and didn't think again about it 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.280 for another four or five weeks when it hit me 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:45.400 that the son of a gun still had my towels. 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.480 Although it's probably worth mentioning that that we hadn't so 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:52.720 much as mentioned the dawn towels since the day I 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.080 gave them to him. Problem was I didn't have his 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.160 phone number, so no way to call him, but I 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.000 knew that he lived down the beach about four blocks 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.559 and then a block back in a corner hotel there. 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.080 So I hopped in my Volkswagen van, which is what 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:10.320 I was driving then, and drove down Ocean Drive, turned 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:15.160 right one block and there he was standing on the corner, 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.960 almost at attention, elbows at his side, palms up, holding 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.559 my towels in front of him, all laundered and neatly folded, 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.440 and he said something like I thought you might be 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:30.559 needing these, and he handed them to me through the window. 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:33.320 I took the towels and said thank you very much, 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.960 exchanged a few more words, and I drove off. 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:45.480 So he just knew you were going to drive up. 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.960 That sounds like something out of a David Lynch movie. 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.080 What do you How do you explain that? Like mental telepathy, 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:54.080 whatever you. 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.760 Call it, You know, I've seen it so many times. 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:02.160 There are ways of communicating that we don't normally recognize. 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:07.240 Or synchronicity or meaningful coincidence is another way into that 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:11.800 particular world. And I think everyone is probably capable of 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.679 that sort of thing. Some are more susceptible than others, 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.880 and people are more susceptible at different times of their lives. 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:21.920 I think it has a lot to do with being 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:27.400 in a position where you're not necessarily governed by the 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:31.960 expectations that we've all had ingrained in us. This was 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:35.800 sort of that time for me. I was floating as 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:36.600 going with the flow. 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.320 So, I mean, I know you were dealing with the 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:45.640 divorce and the change of profession and a new place 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:49.080 to live. But do you think on some level you 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.520 were in some sort of altered reality. 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:59.400 No, I think it's perhaps a more real reality. I 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:03.640 think usually we allow ourselves to live in a more 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:10.000 limited reality. That's probably a discussion for another time. 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.280 Okay, back to Miami Beach. In nineteen eighty three, Bill 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.840 would eventually move into Mickey's hipster apartment building, which would 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:27.680 later be converted into a private mansion for designer Gianni Versace, 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.680 the same location where Versace was murdered in nineteen ninety 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:35.640 seven by spree killer Andrew Cananen. But in the early 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:39.040 nineteen eighties it was far from glamorous, even though it 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:40.600 was called the Amsterdam Palace. 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:45.120 Here's Mickey Relliot. It wasn't a palace, but you know 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:46.560 what I mean, Well. 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.440 Describe the building at that time and the neighborhood that 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:50.040 it sat in. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:55.040 Okay, so it's a building that was a replicant of 0:15:55.960 --> 0:16:01.000 Christopher Columbus's House in Dominican Republic, something like that. It 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:03.320 was built in nineteen twenty two, so it was not 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:08.680 included in the Art Deco movement or buildings that were 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.400 being showcased for Our Deco. In fact, people in our 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.320 building were always insulted. We were never part of the 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:16.560 Our Deco movement. 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:17.040 But Goes. 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:20.320 Really the building wasn't our Deco, and it was gorgeous, 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.440 and all along the building, Lauren, there were all these 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:29.800 plaques of socialists like Emma Goldman, and all the apartments 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.520 were inside, you know, looked inside into the main courtyard 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:35.480 with SLLT toraszo. 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:37.960 Oh, that's so cool it was. 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:42.040 And I had only found it because my friend wanted 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.320 to go and buy beads on Lincoln Road, and then 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.520 we drove up Ocean Drive and I had her stop 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.520 the car because I just couldn't believe how beautiful this 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.520 building was. And it had this beautiful bronze statue outside 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.720 of a crouching woman, and I thought, oh my god, 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:58.880 there's a rent sign, and I just went in met 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.440 the woman who was like eighty something was managing it, 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:03.520 and I rented the room. 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.800 Would you say that the building was, as the neighborhood 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:08.639 a bit in decline at the time. 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:09.359 Oh? 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:10.040 Absolutely? 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:12.600 How did I get to live there? I mean when 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:14.760 I would invite people that I met in Miami to 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.719 come over to the Amsterdam Palace, they were like, ugh, 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.040 who could live there? Not the Amsterdam Palace necessarily, but 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:23.679 who would live on South Beach. 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:25.719 Wow? Things have changed. 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:31.840 Yeah, At the time, Amsterdam Palace and Miami Beach weren't 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.560 exactly prime real estate or a prized destination location. 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.200 And when I moved there, they had the whole beach 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:42.880 filled with the mary Alitos. You could smell the chicken 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:44.280 barbecuing for. 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.520 Miles because they had the whole beach, like from fifteenth 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:54.199 to fifth. Wow, that area was really rife with a 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.879 lot of things happening, like not great things. 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.280 I think my car was broken into a bunch of times. 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:01.840 You had to be really careful where you were walking. 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:04.080 And I worked a couple of jobs, so when I 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.400 came home at night, it was really kind of scary 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.600 to go into the building because now it's all protected, 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:14.240 but then it was completely open. Anybody could come up 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.720 to my louver door apartment. 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:22.560 Miami at that time was known for drug related crimes, 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:27.480 especially homicides. How prevalent and present was that on a 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:32.440 daily basis? Was that always simmering under the surface. 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.360 Yeah, I would say that there was always something going on. 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.080 Like before I moved into the Amsdam Palace, I'd lived 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:41.720 with my sister in this other house. 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.640 Mickey and her sister rented rooms in a house from 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.879 a family who had teenage kids. One day, their father 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:49.200 basically disappeared. 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:51.920 They were at the end of high school and their 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:55.200 father flew drugs to Columbia and they never heard from 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:59.320 the father again. Somebody knew somebody that was drug related. 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:04.239 It's so interesting because there's this quote I read on 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.600 Miami that you could choose not to do drugs, you 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:10.720 could choose not to associate with people who did drugs 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:13.480 or soul drugs, But at the end of the day, 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:17.280 living in Miami at that time, you could not escape 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:18.440 the reality. 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:19.400 Of drugs, right. 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:21.760 I would agree with that one hundred percent. 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.600 At the time Mickey was dating Phil, she was busy 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.800 going to school and working two jobs, one as a waitress, 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:32.080 but the drug culture still seeped in. 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.919 I remember I was working at Tony Roma's and I 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.840 had a table that was like three couples, and they 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:45.080 ordered the most expensive double Johnny Walker blacks and then 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.119 they wouldn't drink it. And then they ordered all the food, 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:50.679 like all the things that you could order. They ordered everything, 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:51.760 and they didn't eat it. 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:56.679 And then they threw all these hundred dollars bills on 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.639 the table, and I'm thinking, oh, that's a first for me, 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.080 you know, like a fifteen hundred dollars tip after they 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.360 paid for the drinks and food that they didn't eat. 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:07.800 They were too coked up. 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:13.359 Yeah, that wasn't the set or scene you'd associate with 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:14.760 the Amsterdam Palace, though. 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:19.240 Here's phil Miami Beach was still in its tumble downstage, 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:24.840 and so the owner's Amsterdam Palace had divided the entire 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.520 place into studios and apartments. 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.719 Fortuitously, or maybe just in keeping with his experiences at 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:35.080 the time, Bill had secured the studio next to Mickey's. 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:39.679 As the relationship progressed, so did their living spaces. 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.000 After a few weeks, we took down the door between 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.560 our studios and had one big apartment. 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:47.520 We had a pretty fabulous place. 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:51.399 It was on the water, and I remember being transfixed 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:53.720 from time to time by the beauty of the place, 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.480 looking out of the apartment through the curved window of 0:20:56.520 --> 0:21:00.560 the masonry wall, so everything's framed in white, looking out 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:03.960 at the bright blue sky, the blue green sea lit 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:08.560 with sun, the heavy green of a palm frond against them, 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:12.159 and thinking the world is such a beautiful place and 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:13.840 we have done nothing to deserve. 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:19.520 It, And that picturesque location would soon attract the attention 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:23.200 of a then unknown television show about to begin filming 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:24.360 in Miami. 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:31.040 I think they started scouting, probably eighty three four, because 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.240 I wanted to see my place and the guy in 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:35.840 the front place and I said, Oh, what are you 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:36.439 scouting for? 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:39.000 And he goes, oh, Miami Vice. And I go, what's 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.760 it going to be about? He said, Cocaine? I said, 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:49.959 do we really need that glorizing cocaine? 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:54.320 I remember one morning waking up looking out the door 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:57.680 that opened onto the courtyard, and there were these two 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:00.440 guys coming out of two different doors. Or is one 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.760 wearing a lavender sport coat another wearing a salmon colored 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:10.040 sport coat, dropping down into the classic two hands on 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:13.800 a pistol pose that TV detectives anyway always do it. 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:20.560 But Bill's own private investigator slash detective adventures were proving 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:23.840 a lot less glam or busy now that Intercept had 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:24.760 shuttered its doors. 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:28.119 So finally I tracked down Bob and we get together. 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.760 I don't think it was at the Cardozo Parane Pub, 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:34.840 probably was, and Bob tells me, turns out that Lamar 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:39.480 has been under federal investigation for some time now, something 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:42.160 called Operation Loan Star, and it's a very big deal. 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:46.760 Grand jury's in Houston, Atlanta, and Miami. 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:50.280 Which is likely why the Feds were looking for you 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:51.080 in the first place. 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:54.800 Yeah, so the smart thing Bob figures is to adopt 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:57.880 a low profile. He's doing business from home now, he's 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:01.560 working as a bodyguard, guardian, money shipments, that sort of thing. 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:04.520 So where does that leave you in terms of your 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:06.600 fledgling private investigator career? 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:09.399 So there really isn't much for me to do, not 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:12.480 an intercept anyway, And it turns out not in my 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:15.800 new career as a spy for the Christic Institute either, 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:18.679 because it turns out Bob doesn't really know much more 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:22.040 about the assassination business than he's already told me. He 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:26.520 was in an Army security agency unit in Frankfurt, Germany, 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:30.560 sort of enlisted man level jobs providing logistical support. But 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:33.920 he does remember is one of these things. He says 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:37.520 with the giggle that every five years, some shavetail lieutenant 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:40.639 who probably has no idea what he's talking about or why, 0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:44.440 shows up at his door in Miami and reminds him 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:48.080 he's still bound by his strict oath of security. 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:50.480