1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: Murder in Miami is a production of iHeartRadio. Previously on 2 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Murder in Miami. Stanford was all too willing to dive 3 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: into the new role of private investigator. 4 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 2: I was an utter failure at it. I said, Bob, 5 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I said, oh, don't worry about it. And 6 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 2: he pulled out a roll of bills, peeled off five hundreds, 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: and he said, good work. 8 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: Why didn't the police or Intercept ever get to the 9 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: bottom of who killed Clay Williams. 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: It was a strange funeral anyway. Standing in the back 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: end of the trailer were about four or five very 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 2: big guys, obviously detectives. They were there to send a message. 13 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: As far as the family's concerned. They never had any 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: true answers as to who murdered Clay or why. 15 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 3: I had understood from Clay that these were former intelligence 16 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 3: people from the federal government, whether it's CIA, Army intelligence, 17 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 3: they were all associated. 18 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: I think maybe Intercept had something to do with this death. 19 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 2: I certainly didn't think so at the time, but the 20 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: more we look into it, the more possible it seems. 21 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: So what was the tie between the Central Intelligence Agency 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: and Miami. 23 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 2: It's still an open murder case in Miami Dade and 24 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: they can't find the papers. Makes you wonder, doesn't it. 25 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: Following up nineteen eighty's record of five hundred and seventy 26 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 1: three murders, nineteen eighty one would become Miami's deadliest year 27 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: to date. Just seven months into nineteen eighty one, Miami's 28 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: homicide count was already at two hundred and ninety six. 29 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: By the end of the year, the number would reach 30 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: six hundred and twenty one. Clay Williams was just one 31 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: of those murders. Perhaps that violence played into this strange 32 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: and surreal time. Bill Stamford soon found himself navigating before 33 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: his path would cross in person with Lamar Chester. I'm 34 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: Lauren bred Pacheco, and this is murder in Miami. 35 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: So it's nineteen eighty two and basically I'm hanging out 36 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: of the car Doza doing odd jobs for Intercept now 37 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: and then. But after a while the jobs head Interceptor 38 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: are drying up. Bob tells me that he can't hire 39 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: me full time unless I have a private investigator's license. 40 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: So I put in for the license, but they tell 41 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: me it'll take several months to get it. So right 42 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: about that I actually made some money selling ads for 43 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: telephone time and temperature for a guy named Uncle Dudley 44 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 2: who wore an ice cream suit and was really quite 45 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 2: a character himself. Today is Friday, June third, The current 46 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: time eleven forty five pm and the temperature seventy five degrees. 47 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 4: How did you connect with him? 48 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,119 Speaker 2: That was another Ruth connection from Alabama. I'm sure she'd 49 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: met him back there. 50 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 4: Was it enough to pay the rent? 51 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: Yeah? I wasn't making that much money, but it was 52 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: enough to get by on. I was really kind of 53 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 2: drifting at that point, So that's why I decided how 54 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: to go back to Washington, D C. And see what 55 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: was cooking back there? 56 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: Were you second guessing your decision to walk away from 57 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: your career. 58 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: It's always sort of in the back of my mind. 59 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: I suppose Phil, you downplay it, but you had some 60 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: serious bylines before you moved to Miami. I mean, major 61 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: articles in the New York Times, the Columbia Journalism Review 62 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: on defense and intelligence matters. That's an extreme impressive level 63 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: of success as a journalist. 64 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, I suppose. So what you've got to understand 65 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 2: I guess I've been trying to figure this out myself 66 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: as we've gotten along with the podcast, is what effect 67 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: that had on me? And head on all this? Yeah, 68 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: I wrote several pieces for the New York Times magazine. 69 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: One piece I did for them to cover story about 70 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 2: nuclear missile submarines. It was a big success by journalistic standards. 71 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: All the major magazines in Europe reprinted it. Readers, Digest, 72 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 2: the New Yorker wrote a Talk of the Town article 73 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 2: about it. So I sat back and waited for the reaction. 74 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: I guess I expected the legislatures of the world to 75 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 2: do something recognizing the essential insanity of the nuclear arms race. 76 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 2: Once again, how dumb can you be? And shortly after that, 77 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 2: the New York Times asked me to do another piece. 78 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 2: This went on terrorism, and I knew this from my 79 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 2: dealings with them so far that it probably never even printed. 80 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: That they wouldn't want to hear what I had to 81 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: say about the terror bombing of North Vietnam, or the 82 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 2: Ragun or the Stern Gang. So I punted. That's when 83 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 2: I began my retreat. I took a job on that 84 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 2: little political magazine we've talking about. I dropped out, went 85 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 2: to Miami, wrote some crime stories for the Miami News, 86 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 2: and ended up working for Intercept. 87 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: Is it safe to say that you were disillusioned? 88 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, except that I'd never really had that many illusions, 89 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: So I guess it cou'd be more accurate to say 90 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 2: I was printed out. 91 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: Maybe sitting around and hearing the former CIA and intelligence 92 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: guys it Intercept somewhat reignited Stanford's inner investigative urges, or 93 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: maybe it just made a missus former beat a bit. 94 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: But Bill decided to make a trip back to Washington 95 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: to reconnect with some former contacts, only to find some 96 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: doors had closed during his time away. 97 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 2: I'd only been away for a little over a year, 98 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 2: I guess, but going it seemed like a very strange place, 99 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 2: especially after the intensity of what I had felt in Miami. 100 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: And one thing was apparent right away. Everyone knew I'd 101 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 2: gotten off the ladder to success. And I think whether 102 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: they thought of that consciously or not entered into all 103 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 2: their considerations, or maybe they just sensed as I did, 104 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 2: that Miami had changed me somewhat in what way I'd 105 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 2: really gotten to see a glimpse into the way things 106 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 2: really work. Before everything had been sort of abstract nuclear strategy, 107 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 2: mega tonage political programs, that sort of thing. And along 108 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 2: the way it had occurred to me that the people 109 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 2: I considered the real criminals were the people who were 110 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: running things in Washington and other places. 111 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: Like that, a realization that led Stamford to reach out 112 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 1: to a like minded connection. 113 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 2: So I got in touch with an old friend, Sheen, 114 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 2: who had but I suppose most people would call a 115 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 2: radical peace and justice organization called the Christic Institute in Washington. 116 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 2: He was a Harvard trained lawyer. They were associated with 117 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 2: the Jesuits, and they used the legal system to achieve 118 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 2: their ends. 119 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: The Christic Institute was a non profit public interest law 120 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: firm founded in nineteen eighty by Danny Shean, his wife 121 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: Sarah Nelson, and a Jesuit priest named William Davis. The 122 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: firm was a unique and revolutionary model for social reform, 123 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: combining investigation, litigation, and education while mobilizing public support for 124 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: worthy causes. They sought to wield the law as a 125 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: weapon of progressive change against a number of daunting targets 126 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: like the KKK, the American Nazi Party, as well as 127 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: corrupt cops and federal agents. 128 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 2: Bob Adams, the guys head of the Detective Agency, had 129 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 2: been part of a military intelligence unity in Europe that 130 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 2: provided logistical support for assassinations conducted by the United States, 131 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: and I thought it offered a way to prove that 132 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 2: power did. Indeed, this is Mao's dictum. I believe that 133 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: power came from the barrel of a gun. I mean, 134 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 2: it probably sounded as stupid then as naive as it 135 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: does now, but that's how I was thinking. And in 136 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: any case, Danny offered me a monthly stipend of twenty 137 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: five hundred dollars a month, which was more than I 138 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 2: usually made as a freelance writer, for sure, And I 139 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: put everything in the car again and went back to Wyomi. 140 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: So now you're basically working as a private investigator, investigative 141 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: journalist investigating Intercept, a private investigation from. 142 00:08:58,360 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess. 143 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: So you're lucky you didn't get yourself killed. 144 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose so, although I don't know, maybe Bob 145 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: would have sort of enjoyed the deviousness of it. 146 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: That investigating Intercept would prove a bit inconvenient. 147 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 2: The funny part is that when I got back, I 148 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 2: went out to the office in Parne and it was closed. 149 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: It was shut down. There wasn't even a sign on 150 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: the door. Anymore that said Intercept. I should have known 151 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: something was up. When I was in DC. I'd gotten 152 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: a call from Ruth saying that a couple of federal 153 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: agents had knocked on her door one evening and asked 154 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 2: to talk to me. She said I'd moved out and 155 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 2: gone to Miami Beach some time ago, and she didn't 156 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: have a clue where I was. Then after they left, 157 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 2: of course, she called me and told me what had happened. 158 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 4: Did you wonder what they wanted? 159 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: Well, I knew it had something to do with Intercept, 160 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 2: but no, as far as I could see, I hadn't 161 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: done anything illegal. So I just sort of pushed it 162 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 2: out of my mind and forgot about it. 163 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: And at this point you also had a new girlfriend 164 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: who was probably a wonderful distraction. 165 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 2: Probably more than a distraction. Actually, yeah, I met Nicky 166 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 2: one night. There's a party on the roof of the 167 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 2: Cardozo and she was there with a girlfriend and struck 168 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 2: me as a slightly shorter version of Melanie Griffith, which 169 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 2: I liked very much. 170 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: Depending upon your age, you'd likely know actress Melanie Griffith 171 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: from films like Working Girl or Bonfire of the Vanities, 172 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: or as the daughter of Tipp Hendron, or the mother 173 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: of Dakota Johnson, who Griffith had with her then husband 174 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: Don Johnson, the star of Miami weis. For those unfamiliar 175 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 1: with any of the aforementioned, let's just say Phil found 176 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: Mickey very attractive. 177 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 2: So there I was, after a hiatus in Washington, d C. 178 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 2: Back in Miami or Miami Beach to be precise, or 179 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 2: even more precise, hanging out at the good old Cardozo 180 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 2: looking out at the ocean, getting twenty five hundred dollars 181 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 2: a month from the Christic Institute, doing virtually nothing. 182 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: That doesn't sound like such a bad life, no kidding. 183 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: And it was also an oddly unstructured, somewhat surreal period 184 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: in Stanford's life. 185 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: It was a great time. It was a strange time. 186 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 2: There was this jazz combo that played at the Cardoza 187 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 2: several nights a week, and I got to be friends 188 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: with a saxophone player whose name I can't remember now, 189 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: but I know he came from New Jersey and he 190 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 2: was down in Miami Beach hanging out with the rest 191 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 2: of us ne'er do wells. And he'd kid me seeing 192 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 2: me spending all the time on the porch at the 193 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 2: car Dozo, without any apparent source of income, and he says, Stanford, 194 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 2: what is your scan? What is your scam? And of 195 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: course I couldn't say I was getting paid for spying 196 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 2: on a detective agency that, for all practical purposes, didn't 197 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 2: exist anymore, but was affront for a major drug operation 198 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: with CIA connections that may or may not exist. So 199 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 2: I just smiled at him, and he'd say it again, 200 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 2: what is your scam? And it was a big joke 201 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 2: between us. Anyway. One day he said he was out 202 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 2: of towels, and so I said, well, I've got some 203 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: extra ones in my room. So I gave him three 204 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 2: or four towels and said just give him back to 205 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 2: me when you're done, and didn't think again about it 206 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: for another four or five weeks when it hit me 207 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 2: that the son of a gun still had my towels. 208 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: Although it's probably worth mentioning that that we hadn't so 209 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 2: much as mentioned the dawn towels since the day I 210 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 2: gave them to him. Problem was I didn't have his 211 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 2: phone number, so no way to call him, but I 212 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 2: knew that he lived down the beach about four blocks 213 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 2: and then a block back in a corner hotel there. 214 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 2: So I hopped in my Volkswagen van, which is what 215 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 2: I was driving then, and drove down Ocean Drive, turned 216 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 2: right one block and there he was standing on the corner, 217 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 2: almost at attention, elbows at his side, palms up, holding 218 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 2: my towels in front of him, all laundered and neatly folded, 219 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 2: and he said something like I thought you might be 220 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 2: needing these, and he handed them to me through the window. 221 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 2: I took the towels and said thank you very much, 222 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 2: exchanged a few more words, and I drove off. 223 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: So he just knew you were going to drive up. 224 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: That sounds like something out of a David Lynch movie. 225 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: What do you How do you explain that? Like mental telepathy, 226 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: whatever you. 227 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 2: Call it, You know, I've seen it so many times. 228 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 2: There are ways of communicating that we don't normally recognize. 229 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: Or synchronicity or meaningful coincidence is another way into that 230 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 2: particular world. And I think everyone is probably capable of 231 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 2: that sort of thing. Some are more susceptible than others, 232 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 2: and people are more susceptible at different times of their lives. 233 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: I think it has a lot to do with being 234 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 2: in a position where you're not necessarily governed by the 235 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 2: expectations that we've all had ingrained in us. This was 236 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: sort of that time for me. I was floating as 237 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 2: going with the flow. 238 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: So, I mean, I know you were dealing with the 239 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: divorce and the change of profession and a new place 240 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: to live. But do you think on some level you 241 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: were in some sort of altered reality. 242 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: No, I think it's perhaps a more real reality. I 243 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 2: think usually we allow ourselves to live in a more 244 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: limited reality. That's probably a discussion for another time. 245 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: Okay, back to Miami Beach. In nineteen eighty three, Bill 246 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: would eventually move into Mickey's hipster apartment building, which would 247 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: later be converted into a private mansion for designer Gianni Versace, 248 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: the same location where Versace was murdered in nineteen ninety 249 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: seven by spree killer Andrew Cananen. But in the early 250 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties it was far from glamorous, even though it 251 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: was called the Amsterdam Palace. 252 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 4: Here's Mickey Relliot. It wasn't a palace, but you know 253 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 4: what I mean, Well. 254 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: Describe the building at that time and the neighborhood that 255 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: it sat in. 256 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 5: Okay, so it's a building that was a replicant of 257 00:15:55,960 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 5: Christopher Columbus's House in Dominican Republic, something like that. It 258 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 5: was built in nineteen twenty two, so it was not 259 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 5: included in the Art Deco movement or buildings that were 260 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 5: being showcased for Our Deco. In fact, people in our 261 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 5: building were always insulted. We were never part of the 262 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 5: Our Deco movement. 263 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 4: But Goes. 264 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 5: Really the building wasn't our Deco, and it was gorgeous, 265 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 5: and all along the building, Lauren, there were all these 266 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 5: plaques of socialists like Emma Goldman, and all the apartments 267 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 5: were inside, you know, looked inside into the main courtyard 268 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 5: with SLLT toraszo. 269 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 4: Oh, that's so cool it was. 270 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 5: And I had only found it because my friend wanted 271 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 5: to go and buy beads on Lincoln Road, and then 272 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 5: we drove up Ocean Drive and I had her stop 273 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 5: the car because I just couldn't believe how beautiful this 274 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 5: building was. And it had this beautiful bronze statue outside 275 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 5: of a crouching woman, and I thought, oh my god, 276 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 5: there's a rent sign, and I just went in met 277 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 5: the woman who was like eighty something was managing it, 278 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 5: and I rented the room. 279 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: Would you say that the building was, as the neighborhood 280 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: a bit in decline at the time. 281 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 3: Oh? 282 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 4: Absolutely? 283 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 5: How did I get to live there? I mean when 284 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 5: I would invite people that I met in Miami to 285 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,719 Speaker 5: come over to the Amsterdam Palace, they were like, ugh, 286 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 5: who could live there? Not the Amsterdam Palace necessarily, but 287 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 5: who would live on South Beach. 288 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:25,719 Speaker 4: Wow? Things have changed. 289 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, At the time, Amsterdam Palace and Miami Beach weren't 290 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: exactly prime real estate or a prized destination location. 291 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 5: And when I moved there, they had the whole beach 292 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 5: filled with the mary Alitos. You could smell the chicken 293 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 5: barbecuing for. 294 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 6: Miles because they had the whole beach, like from fifteenth 295 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 6: to fifth. Wow, that area was really rife with a 296 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 6: lot of things happening, like not great things. 297 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 5: I think my car was broken into a bunch of times. 298 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 5: You had to be really careful where you were walking. 299 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 5: And I worked a couple of jobs, so when I 300 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 5: came home at night, it was really kind of scary 301 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 5: to go into the building because now it's all protected, 302 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 5: but then it was completely open. Anybody could come up 303 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 5: to my louver door apartment. 304 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: Miami at that time was known for drug related crimes, 305 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: especially homicides. How prevalent and present was that on a 306 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: daily basis? Was that always simmering under the surface. 307 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say that there was always something going on. 308 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 5: Like before I moved into the Amsdam Palace, I'd lived 309 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 5: with my sister in this other house. 310 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: Mickey and her sister rented rooms in a house from 311 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 1: a family who had teenage kids. One day, their father 312 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: basically disappeared. 313 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 5: They were at the end of high school and their 314 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 5: father flew drugs to Columbia and they never heard from 315 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 5: the father again. Somebody knew somebody that was drug related. 316 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,239 Speaker 1: It's so interesting because there's this quote I read on 317 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: Miami that you could choose not to do drugs, you 318 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: could choose not to associate with people who did drugs 319 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: or soul drugs, But at the end of the day, 320 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: living in Miami at that time, you could not escape 321 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: the reality. 322 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 4: Of drugs, right. 323 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 5: I would agree with that one hundred percent. 324 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: At the time Mickey was dating Phil, she was busy 325 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: going to school and working two jobs, one as a waitress, 326 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: but the drug culture still seeped in. 327 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 5: I remember I was working at Tony Roma's and I 328 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 5: had a table that was like three couples, and they 329 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 5: ordered the most expensive double Johnny Walker blacks and then 330 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 5: they wouldn't drink it. And then they ordered all the food, 331 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 5: like all the things that you could order. They ordered everything, 332 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 5: and they didn't eat it. 333 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 7: And then they threw all these hundred dollars bills on 334 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 7: the table, and I'm thinking, oh, that's a first for me, 335 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 7: you know, like a fifteen hundred dollars tip after they 336 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 7: paid for the drinks and food that they didn't eat. 337 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 4: They were too coked up. 338 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, that wasn't the set or scene you'd associate with 339 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: the Amsterdam Palace, though. 340 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 2: Here's phil Miami Beach was still in its tumble downstage, 341 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: and so the owner's Amsterdam Palace had divided the entire 342 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 2: place into studios and apartments. 343 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,719 Speaker 1: Fortuitously, or maybe just in keeping with his experiences at 344 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: the time, Bill had secured the studio next to Mickey's. 345 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 1: As the relationship progressed, so did their living spaces. 346 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: After a few weeks, we took down the door between 347 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 2: our studios and had one big apartment. 348 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 5: We had a pretty fabulous place. 349 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 2: It was on the water, and I remember being transfixed 350 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 2: from time to time by the beauty of the place, 351 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 2: looking out of the apartment through the curved window of 352 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: the masonry wall, so everything's framed in white, looking out 353 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 2: at the bright blue sky, the blue green sea lit 354 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 2: with sun, the heavy green of a palm frond against them, 355 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 2: and thinking the world is such a beautiful place and 356 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 2: we have done nothing to deserve. 357 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: It, And that picturesque location would soon attract the attention 358 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: of a then unknown television show about to begin filming 359 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 1: in Miami. 360 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 8: I think they started scouting, probably eighty three four, because 361 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 8: I wanted to see my place and the guy in 362 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 8: the front place and I said, Oh, what are you 363 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 8: scouting for? 364 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 5: And he goes, oh, Miami Vice. And I go, what's 365 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 5: it going to be about? He said, Cocaine? I said, 366 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 5: do we really need that glorizing cocaine? 367 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 2: I remember one morning waking up looking out the door 368 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 2: that opened onto the courtyard, and there were these two 369 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 2: guys coming out of two different doors. Or is one 370 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 2: wearing a lavender sport coat another wearing a salmon colored 371 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 2: sport coat, dropping down into the classic two hands on 372 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 2: a pistol pose that TV detectives anyway always do it. 373 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: But Bill's own private investigator slash detective adventures were proving 374 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: a lot less glam or busy now that Intercept had 375 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: shuttered its doors. 376 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 2: So finally I tracked down Bob and we get together. 377 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 2: I don't think it was at the Cardozo Parane Pub, 378 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: probably was, and Bob tells me, turns out that Lamar 379 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: has been under federal investigation for some time now, something 380 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 2: called Operation Loan Star, and it's a very big deal. 381 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 2: Grand jury's in Houston, Atlanta, and Miami. 382 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: Which is likely why the Feds were looking for you 383 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: in the first place. 384 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the smart thing Bob figures is to adopt 385 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 2: a low profile. He's doing business from home now, he's 386 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 2: working as a bodyguard, guardian, money shipments, that sort of thing. 387 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: So where does that leave you in terms of your 388 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: fledgling private investigator career? 389 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 2: So there really isn't much for me to do, not 390 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 2: an intercept anyway, And it turns out not in my 391 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 2: new career as a spy for the Christic Institute either, 392 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 2: because it turns out Bob doesn't really know much more 393 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 2: about the assassination business than he's already told me. He 394 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 2: was in an Army security agency unit in Frankfurt, Germany, 395 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 2: sort of enlisted man level jobs providing logistical support. But 396 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 2: he does remember is one of these things. He says 397 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 2: with the giggle that every five years, some shavetail lieutenant 398 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 2: who probably has no idea what he's talking about or why, 399 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 2: shows up at his door in Miami and reminds him 400 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 2: he's still bound by his strict oath of security. 401 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 4: And he found that amusing. 402 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 2: Bob was always amused by how foolish or corrupt the 403 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 2: world always proved itself to be. And as far as 404 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 2: the case against Lamar, he says, that's really nothing to 405 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 2: worry about either. Oh, sure, there's an indictment coming down, 406 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 2: but Lamar's got everything under control. He's got the best 407 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 2: lawyers in the world working for him. He's already got 408 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 2: a change of venue to Northern Georgia, where he's got 409 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 2: everyone bought off, and everybody had intercept with their intelligence connections, 410 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 2: has already made their deals and been dropped from the indictment. 411 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: Well, he's certainly right about the fact that there were 412 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: significant indictments involved. 413 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 9: Tilton Lamar, Chester forty five, a former Eastern Airlines pilot, 414 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 9: is one of twelve people charged in a major federal 415 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 9: investigation dubbed Operation Loan. 416 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 10: Star, thirty six count indictment accuses Tilton Lamar Chester Junior. 417 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 5: A Chester led a large smuggling organization. 418 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: In the fall of nineteen eighty three. Those indictments were 419 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: National News. 420 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 10: A Georgia drug runner who federal authorities say engineered a 421 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 10: drug smuggling and money launderings. 422 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 5: SKI government agents received information that international drug smuggler Lamar Chester. 423 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 10: Charging that Chester led a large smuggling organization. 424 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 9: From the island he controlled in the Bahamas to his 425 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 9: native Georgia and perhaps to a dozen other states. 426 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: For some background, the Bahamas are comprised of an extensive 427 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: chain of seven hundred islands and twenty four hundred low 428 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: banks or reefs of coral, rock or sand called keys, 429 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: spanning an area roughly the size of California, extending from 430 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: Florida's coast on the northwest almost to Haiti on the southeast. 431 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: The area has a long and notorious history of illicit activity. 432 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: Pirates use the Bahamas as their preferred port because of 433 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: its plentiful small islands, shallow waters, and coves, which served 434 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: as ideal hiding places. The shallow waters were also perfect 435 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: for the smaller faster boats favored by pirates, but too 436 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: shallow for the larger man of warships, often in their pursuit. 437 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: From nineteen seventeen to nineteen thirty three, when prohibition became 438 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: the law of the land in America, Bahamas played an 439 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: important part becoming an ideal hub for alcohol smuggling, offering 440 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: numerous secretive places where alcohol could be stored en route 441 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: to America. All of the above made the Bahamas an 442 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: obvious destination location for drug smugglers looking to carve out 443 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: their share of profiting off of America's insatiable and ever 444 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: evolving appetite for illegal intoxicants. Okay, back to Chester's indictment. 445 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: I'm reading from the October fourth, nineteen eighty three issue 446 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: of The New York Times under the headline group and 447 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: Bahamas charged in big Narcotic conspiracy. Federal prosecutors unseled a 448 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: thirty six count indictment today charging that a Northeastern Georgia 449 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: man led a large smuggling organization that shipped marijuana and 450 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: cocaine into the United States from a base in the Bahamas. 451 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: The indictment charged Tilton Lamar Chester Junior, forty five years 452 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: Old of Cleveland, Georgia, and eleven others with drug offenses 453 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: and conducting a criminal enterprise in a pattern of racketeering. 454 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: It asserted that the group ran an organization that purchased 455 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: the Darby Islands, a small group in the Bahamas as 456 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 1: a base through which to move drugs from Jamaica and 457 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: Columbia into the United States. Other defendants named in the 458 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: article are Chester's attorney Lance Eisenberg, and another smuggler you'll 459 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: hear much more about going forward, Ronald Elliott. And just 460 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: a few days after the indictment is made public, Lamar 461 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: is back in the news again. 462 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 5: The indictment said Chester had houses and aircraft hangar and 463 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 5: an airstrip built on the islands for use in the 464 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 5: drug operation, and. 465 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 2: Lamar is actually interviewed on an Atlanta television station saying, 466 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 2: this is a paraphrase, Yes, I did it. I flew 467 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 2: two hundred loads into the country. But I did it 468 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 2: with the ok of the CIA and the DEA. And 469 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 2: if the federal government is foolish enough to put me 470 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 2: on trial for this, I'm going to tell everything I 471 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 2: know about what the government's been up to. And I 472 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 2: have enough evidence to shake the US government to its core. 473 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 4: And so what did Bob think of all this? 474 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 2: Bob couldn't be enjoined anymore. Lamar is so sure he's 475 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 2: going to win, which means they'll drop the case before 476 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 2: it even goes to trial. That he's got his lawyers 477 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 2: spending half their time just trying to get his pilot's 478 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 2: license back. When they indicted him, they took away his 479 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 2: pilot's license just to punish him. Bob says, Lamar loves 480 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 2: to fly, and he's got this little piper cub in 481 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 2: addition to the planes he uses for the smuggling business, 482 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 2: that he likes to fly for fun over his ranch 483 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 2: up in northern Georgia. 484 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: Well, what did you make about this? What did you 485 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: think of Chester's gray mail defense? For anyone not familiar 486 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: with the term, gray mail, like blackmail, implies the threat 487 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: of revealing, compromising, or damaging information in exchange for benefit, 488 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: except gray mail specifically threatens the revelation of state secrets 489 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: in order to manipulate legal proceedings. 490 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 2: Well, to tell the truth, I really didn't know I 491 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 2: was were, of course that in the fifties and sixties 492 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 2: and into the seventies, the United States, the CIA had 493 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 2: been involved in using drugs to finance off the books 494 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 2: wars in Asia. And I knew, of course that the 495 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 2: guys in Intercept had intelligence connections. One had even been 496 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 2: overt station chief of the Miami station during the Bay 497 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 2: of Pig's time. But that didn't prove anything. Maybe it 498 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 2: was true, maybe it wasn't. For all I know, Lamar 499 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 2: might just be making it up. 500 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: And at this point, you hadn't yet men Lamar in person, right. 501 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 2: No, I still hadn't met Lamar. But the next thing 502 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 2: I know, I get this call from Bob saying that 503 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 2: Lamar wants to meet me at the Mutiny, which of 504 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 2: course is the hangout for all the premier drug smugglers 505 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 2: in Miami. 506 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: So why in the world would he want to meet 507 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: you at that point and at that place, given that 508 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: he's already been indicted. 509 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 2: That's what I'm wondering too. 510 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: Located on the Bay in Coconut Grove and first open 511 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine, the Mutiny Hotel was known for 512 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: its glitzy, debauchery and decadence. At one point in the 513 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, the Mutiny earned the distinction of selling more 514 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: dom Perigno champagne than any other venue in America. Much 515 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: of it served in hot tubs. The venue had one 516 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty rooms, including lavishly decorated fantasy themed suites 517 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: with names like the Egyptian Suite, Gypsy Caravan, the Bordello, 518 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: Hot Fudge, and Outer Space. Guests are said to have 519 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: included the likes of Chaer, Jacqueline Onassis, led Zeppelin, George Bush, 520 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: and Fleetwood Mac. By the eighties, it had infamously morphed 521 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: into a cocaine cooled membership based Miami hot spot where 522 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: notorious drug traffickers partied alongside celebrities, politicians, and the drug 523 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: and law enforcement agents who were there under the guise 524 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: of monitoring the action. It also had a rapidly growing 525 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: reputation as the destination location for cocaine. Its infamous nightclub 526 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: served as the inspiration for the Babylon Club. 527 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 4: In the movie Scarface. 528 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,959 Speaker 1: Oliver Stone, al Pacino and the rest of the casting 529 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: crew even checked into the mutiny during the filming for 530 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: research purposes. 531 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 2: Back to fill, so I go to the Mutiny with Bob. 532 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 2: There must be about two or three on a weekday afternoon, 533 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 2: so the place isn't really bustling yet. Lamar isn't there 534 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 2: yet either or else he has other business to attend to. 535 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 2: So Bob and I start drinking and drinking, and the 536 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,959 Speaker 2: Mutiny was a new luxury hotel and coconut grove. There 537 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 2: were tables in the main barroom with telephones on each one, 538 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 2: sort of old style. This is pre cell phone days. 539 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 2: And it's where all the drug dealers hung out and 540 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 2: made deals and very conspicuous deals. And of course all 541 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 2: the DEA agents had memberships too, so they could sit 542 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 2: there and watch the drug dealers. And outside there were 543 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 2: several outdoor bars placed around the grounds of the hotel 544 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,479 Speaker 2: with big umbrellas above them, pretty Cuban girls serving drinks. 545 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 2: Bob and I must have stopped at all of them 546 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 2: while we were waiting for them, so you guys must 547 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 2: have been pretty tipsy by the time Chester walked in. Well, 548 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 2: finally Lamar shows up. We're waiting in his room and 549 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 2: he breezes in. Yeah, because always we've had to drink 550 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 2: by The recollection is a little bit hazy at some points, 551 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 2: but I do remember thinking he looked a little bit 552 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 2: slighter than I had expected from all of Bob's heroic 553 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 2: descriptions of him. And I was also struck by what 554 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 2: I remember is sort of a lounge lizard mustache, but 555 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 2: that was something that I think was probably in style 556 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 2: back in the seventies. 557 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 4: What do you mean by the lounge lizard mustache? 558 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 2: That he had what struck me as sort of a 559 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 2: drug store cowboy mustache might expect to see in a 560 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 2: show in Las Vegas or something like that. 561 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 4: Do you remember what he was wearing? 562 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 2: Nothing flicy shirt, jeans, loafers. So we start talking nothing 563 00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,959 Speaker 2: special at first, How you doing? What do you think 564 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 2: the mutiny? That sort of thing, Nothing about the indictment 565 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 2: or his threat to spill the beans on the CIA 566 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 2: and shake the government to its core. When out of 567 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 2: the blue, Lamar says, with that big old door to 568 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 2: door salesman smile of his, I bet you're wondering why 569 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 2: I invited you down here, right. I must have mumbled 570 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 2: something I don't remember exactly what I asked Bob, and 571 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,439 Speaker 2: Bob said, Lamar will explain it when we get there, 572 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 2: and Lamar says, well, I just want you to know 573 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 2: that I appreciate what you're doing here, but I sure 574 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 2: as hell wish you and your boys back in Washington 575 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 2: would get a move on it, out of the blue, 576 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 2: just like that. And I say what, I certainly don't 577 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 2: know what to make of it, And he says, oh, 578 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 2: come on, now, you're with the CIA. Right? 579 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 4: Wait? He thought you were with the CIA. Why? 580 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 2: I had no idea At the time. I didn't even 581 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 2: believe it was real. But then nothing I'd been doing 582 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 2: was quite real either. The work I did for the 583 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 2: intercept wasn't all of it quite real? And so why 584 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 2: would this be any less unreal? I suppose? And I say, oh, 585 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 2: I'm not with a CIA, at which point he nudges 586 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 2: my shoulder with his elbow and in a friendly way. 587 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 2: I mean, he's smiling. He says, good boy, that's just 588 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,359 Speaker 2: what you would say. And it hasn't hit me yet. 589 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 2: But I'm in a very odd situation. The more I 590 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 2: deny it, the more he believes I'm with the CIA. 591 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 2: There's no way I can convince him otherwise. 592 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 4: So how did that meeting end? 593 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 2: Well, maybe I say a couple more times, I'm not 594 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,720 Speaker 2: with the CIA. I don't remember that, Or maybe it's 595 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 2: since he's as far as he's concerned, my denial has 596 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 2: already proved that I am with the CIA. We have 597 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 2: just some more small talk, and then Bob and I 598 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 2: stumble off, drunkard than skunks, starting to get now and 599 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 2: on our way back to Miami Beach, I asked Bob 600 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,879 Speaker 2: if Lamar is kidding? It still hasn't sunk that any 601 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 2: of this is real? Does he really believe I'm with 602 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 2: the CIA? And very solemnly Bob says, yes he does. 603 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,800 Speaker 4: What about, Bob? Did he think you were with the CIA? 604 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 2: Too? That's what's even more incredible. But it won't dawn 605 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 2: on me till some time later. Is that, Bob the 606 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 2: guy who hired me in the first place? For goodness sake? 607 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 2: I think so too. 608 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 1: So as Stanford staggered home, his head was spinning, and 609 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: not just because of the alcohol. But his night was 610 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: far from over, and a hangover wouldn't be the only 611 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: thing he'd regret the next morning. On the next Murder 612 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: of Miami, looking into Clay's death, Letes further into the 613 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: mystery of dashing pilot Lamar Chester and to his inner circle, 614 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: including a legendary former cocaine smuggler, Heglarder. 615 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 2: Did you quit loving me? Happy? Miles? Here? Give me 616 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 2: a call. 617 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: Mister Miles was a close business associate and friend of 618 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: Intercept's biggest client, Lamar Chester. 619 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 2: And he was flying guns then to Nicaragua. 620 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: And did he tell you who he was running the 621 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: guns for? 622 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 7: I would imagine the CIA was running that show. 623 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 4: Like Icarus. 624 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: All these guys would eventually fly a bit too close 625 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: to the sun. 626 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 2: They all got burned except Happy, Except Happy. 627 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: Murder of Miami is a production of iHeart Radio. Executive 628 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: producers are Lauren bred Pacheco, Taylor Chicogne, and Phil Stamford. 629 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: Written by Phil Stamford and Lauren brad Pacheco, Audio editing 630 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: and sound designed by Nicholas Harder, Evan Tyer, and Taylor Chackoine, 631 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: featuring music by Evan Tyre, phill Mayer, John Murchison, and 632 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: Taylor Chackoine. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio. 633 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 4: App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get the stories that 634 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 4: matter to you.