1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Hey everybody. Before we get started, we have a couple 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: of live shows to announce. First April, we will be 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: at Universal Fan Con in Baltimore, Maryland. Our exact schedule 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: for that show is still in the works, but this 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: will include a live show, and our listeners can get 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: discounted tickets using the offer code History. And for all 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: the folks who have asked us to do a show 8 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: in the Boston area, of which there have been many, 9 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: we are finally on the way with the show in 10 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: Quincy at Adams National Historical Park on Sunday, July eight 11 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: at two pm. That one is an outdoor show. It 12 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 1: will happen rain or shine. And we also have more 13 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: appearances that will be announcing soon, as well as more 14 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: details about both of these shows, and we will put 15 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: that all at our website also at miss in history 16 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: dot com. Welcome to Steph you missed in History class 17 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to 18 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Honley Fry and I'm Tracy bing Wilson. 19 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: And today, Tracy, I'm kind of excited because I've had 20 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: this story on my list for a while. Uh, We're 21 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: going to talk about a man who was born into slavery, 22 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: which sounds not so levity enhanced as my giggles might suggest, 23 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: but he escaped in a really astonishing way, and his 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: story of how he gained his freedom was so sensational 25 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: that he basically spent the rest of his life making 26 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: a living talking about it in one form or another. 27 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: So today we are talking about Henry Box Brown and 28 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: we're just going to jump right into his story. Yes, 29 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: so he was born in eighteen fifteen or eighteen sixteen. 30 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: There's no known record of his exact birthday, but he 31 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: was born in Louisa County, Virginia, which is about forty 32 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: five miles from Richmond. This is on a plantation called 33 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: the Hermitage, and he was enslaved from birth. And in 34 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: his account of his life, Henry talked about uh an 35 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: incident where he would carry grain to any miles to 36 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: a mill several times a year as a boy, and 37 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: those trips which he took with his brother were also 38 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: fact finding missions where the two boys would get information 39 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: about the other enslaved people that lived nearby and any 40 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: other news going on in Virginia. And on one such trip, 41 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: the boys met a large group of enslaved men and 42 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: they spoke with them, and they started to realize that 43 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: the two of them were in a unique situation. The 44 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 1: boys had clothes and they had shoes, and the other 45 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: enslaved men remarked upon them, uh as something that they 46 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: did not have. And the boys also heard enslaved men 47 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: being beaten. They were also asked by a white man 48 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: whether they had ever been whipped, and they replied that 49 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: they hadn't. That caused this white man to reply that 50 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: they would never amount to anything. So through all of 51 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: these interactions, the boys became really aware that they had 52 00:02:55,480 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: a kind of precarious place in the world. They I mean, 53 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: it's they were still enslaved, but were in a position 54 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: that was a little better in some ways, and they 55 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: realized they could easily end up in a similar situation 56 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: to these people they had spoken with, who didn't have 57 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: clothes and shoes and were routinely beaten. Yeah, they kind 58 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: of appreciated the fact that they did get close. They 59 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: dig issues. They were not beaten as a matter of course, 60 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: and they understood very quickly that people who were enslaved 61 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: had no control over their life's course, and they could 62 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: easily end up just wherever they might land. Based on 63 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: the whim of someone else. When Henry was about fifteen, 64 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: he and his mother were called to the deathbed of 65 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: their owner, John Barrett, and things on Barrett's plantation had 66 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: gotten a little bit rougher because Barrett had hired an 67 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: overseer to manage things when he could not really keep 68 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: up with running everything himself, and so they had had 69 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: a taste of that more difficult situation, and Henry and 70 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: his mother believed that their summons to Barrett's bedside was 71 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: in fact so that they could tell them that they 72 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: were going to be freed upon his death. They literally 73 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,119 Speaker 1: believed this when they walked into that room, but instead 74 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: they got the news that John Barrett was giving Henry 75 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: to his son William, And with Barrett's death, his estate 76 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: was divided four ways among his sons, and Henry's family 77 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: was torn apart in the process. He later wrote of 78 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: this time, quote, this kind of torture is a thousandfold 79 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: more cruel and barbarous than the use of the lash 80 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: which lacerates the back. The lashes which the whip or 81 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: the cowskin makes may heal, and the place which was 82 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: marked in a little while may cease to exhibit the 83 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: signs of what it had endured. But the pangs which 84 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 1: lacerate the soul and consequence of the forcible disruption of 85 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: parent and the dearest family ties only grow deeper and 86 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: more piercing. As memory fetches from a greater distance the 87 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: horrid acts wish they have been produced. Henry was moved 88 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: to Richmond to work in the tobacco factory that William 89 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: Barrett owned. William assured Henry that if he worked hard 90 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: and he behaved, that he would be taken care of, 91 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: and he would also be paid a small bit of money. 92 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: William was overheard at one point by Henry telling the 93 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: overseer at the factory that Henry should never be whipped, 94 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: that he had been raised by William's father, and that 95 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: he was a very smart boy. In eighteen thirty one, 96 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: Henry witnessed the aftermath of Nat Turner's rebellion, and which 97 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: more than sixty black men, some enslaved and some free, 98 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: had killed more than fifty people. After the rebellion, there 99 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: was a lot of retaliatory violence against enslaved people. Henry 100 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: later wrote about witnessing many people quote whipped, hung and 101 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: cut down with swords in the streets and worse. He 102 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: asked William Barrett what was happening and was told only 103 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: that some enslaved men quote had plotted to kill their owners. 104 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: Henry only figured out long after the fact that he 105 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: had seen this famous rebellion. In eighteen thirty six, Henry 106 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: wanted to marry a woman that he had met named Nancy. 107 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: Nancy was also enslaved, but she was owned by a 108 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: man named Mr Lee, who was a banker and not 109 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: William Barrett, who owned Henry. So Henry spoke with Mr Lee, 110 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: who said that he had no intention of selling Nancy 111 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: and that if William Barrett could say the same of 112 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: Henry that he would approve the marriage. So Nancy and 113 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: Henry were married, but just a year later Mr Lee 114 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: reneged on his promise. He sold Nancy to a saddler 115 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: named Joseph A. Coal Quit, and coal Quit and his 116 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: wife treated Nancy far worse than her previous owner had, 117 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: and after a great deal of animosity, particularly on the 118 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: part of Mrs coal Quit, Nancy was sold once again, 119 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: but the coal Quits soon bought her back when they 120 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: realized just how much she had been doing for them. 121 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: Eventually she was sold once again, but this time the 122 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: man who purchased Samuel Catrell cut Henry a deal that 123 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: if Henry regularly paid him fifty dollars, he would let 124 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: the couple and their children live together. Henry, of course 125 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: had to arrange and pay for a home in addition 126 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: to the regular annual payments that he had to make. Yeah, 127 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: this is like one of those situations where in effect 128 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: Catrell couldn't make the initial payment to purchase Nancy outright 129 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: he was short, and that fifty dollars made up the gap. 130 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: But then he also charged Henry another fifty dollars annually, 131 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: and Henry had to pay for all of Nancy's life necessities, 132 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: room board, etcetera. So Catrell was basically getting paid to 133 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: keep this woman enslaved by her husband because it was 134 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: the only way that Nancy and Henry could be together. 135 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: And it was during this time that Henry met James 136 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: Caesar Anthony Smith, a free black man that he knew 137 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: from church, and James helped and rEFInd a home where 138 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: he and Nancy and the children could live. Is at 139 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: this point they had several James c. A. Smith arranged 140 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: for the rental of a home in his own name 141 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: at seventy one dollars per year for the Browns, and 142 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: for a while, though Henry was basically being extorted by 143 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: Cattrell to not sell Nancy, they were living happily as 144 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: a family in The Browns had been married for twelve years, 145 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: they had three children and a fourth on the way. 146 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: And then Catrell abruptly sold Nancy and the children, who 147 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: were all immediately removed from their home and taken to 148 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: a prison for holding until the next day, at which 149 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,119 Speaker 1: point they would begin a journey to North Carolina. In addition, 150 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: he had all the Brown family's possessions seized for auction. 151 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: Henry begged his owner to buy his family, but he 152 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: got nowhere Pursuing that line of thinking. He managed to 153 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: buy back some of their things with the small amount 154 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: of money he had, but he could only watch as 155 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: his family, along with several hundred other people, were marched 156 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: down the street to begin this journey to North Carolina. 157 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 1: As his wife approached, Henry took her hand and he 158 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: held it as he walked for approximately four miles with 159 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: the group before they were parted for good. One of 160 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: the themes of Henry's account of his life is the 161 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: discussion of the hypocrisy of the white men who would 162 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: call themselves Christian and still engage in slavery like This 163 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: has made several appearances on the podcast, including in our 164 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: recent episode on Phillis Wheeley. After his loss of Nancy 165 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: and the children, his own faith was not shaken, but 166 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 1: he believed that slave owners could not truly be men 167 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: of God. That forced separation after such a constant state 168 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: of shifting assurances from owners catalyzed a fervent desire for 169 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: freedom in Henry. He had been lied to and toyed with, 170 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: and finally had what was most important to him taken away, 171 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: and he was intent on ending his own enslavement. We'll 172 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: talk about Henry's bolt of inspiration for his escape plan 173 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: after we pause for a quick sponsor break. Henry describes 174 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: precisely the moment where he had his idea for escape 175 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: in his writing quote, one day, while I was at 176 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: work and my thoughts were eagerly feasting upon the idea 177 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: of freedom, I felt my soul called out to heaven 178 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: to breathe a prayer to Almighty God. I prayed fervently 179 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: that he who seeth in secret and knew the inmost 180 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: desires of my heart would lend me his aid in 181 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: bursting my fetters asunder, and in restoring me to the 182 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: possession of those rights of which men had robbed me. 183 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: When the idea suddenly flashed across my mind of shutting 184 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: myself up in a box and getting myself conveyed as 185 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: dry goods to a free state, the idea of sealing 186 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: himself in a box to be shipped to freedom was 187 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: obviously not without danger. Was a very real risk that 188 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: he could die in the process, but Henry Brown was 189 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: willing to take that risk rather than remain enslaved. To 190 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: make his escape, Henry was going to need some help, 191 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: and so he turned once again to James Caesar Anthony Smith, 192 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: and he also had assistance from a white man that 193 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: James introduced him to named Samuel Smith, who was no 194 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: relation to James. Henry knew he would have to get 195 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: a few days of leave from work to give himself 196 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: a good chance where nobody would be alarmed that he 197 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: was absent. He had a finger that was infected, and 198 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: he thought he might use that as an excuse, but 199 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: his overseer didn't think this injury was bad enough for 200 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: him to need to miss work. So Henry poured what 201 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: was called oil of vitriol on it. This was really 202 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: sulfuric acid. He wound up causing a lot more damage 203 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: than he intended to, but it worked. He got permission 204 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: to miss work and treat the wound, and his friends 205 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: managed to make contact with people in Philadelphia who would 206 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: be willing to receive this box. Brown's box was lined 207 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: with fabric very similar to what you might find on 208 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: a pool table, and Henry had cut three holes in 209 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: the box for air, and he took a gimlet, which 210 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: is kind of like an awl, with him into the 211 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: box in case he needed to cut more during the journey. 212 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: He also took a bladder of water, both so that 213 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: he could hydrate himself in small amounts and also so 214 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: he could potentially put it on his face if he 215 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: needed to. And this box was, according to Henry's account, 216 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: three ft one inch wide, two ft six inches high 217 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: and two ft wide. Henry had hired a carpenter to 218 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: specially make it for him with the small amount of 219 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: money that he had saved up, and it was marked 220 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: as dry goods. Henry folded himself into this box and 221 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: then his friends nailed its shut he was taken a 222 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: mile to the shipping station. He Samuel shipped the box 223 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: on March nine by the Adams Express Company, and the 224 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: box then made a journey over the course of twenty 225 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: seven hours. Almost immediately it was flipped on its end, 226 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: so Henry's head was down, and then when he was 227 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: moved from a wagon to a baggage car, it landed 228 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: on its side, which was a little more comfortable, But 229 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: when he was placed onto a steamer at Potomac Creek, 230 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: he once again was stood on end with his head down. 231 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: He thought he might die because the pressure around his 232 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: face was so much that he focused on the idea 233 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: of freedom and resolved to just get through the discomfort. 234 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: As he was becoming convinced that his life really was 235 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: in danger, two men on the steamer shifted the crate 236 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: to its side to use it as a seat. After 237 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: some additional jostling and being tossed around and put into 238 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: a position that was bottom end up again, he finally 239 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: came to rest in luggage storage at the train depot 240 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: until a gentleman came to ask about the box and 241 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: collect it. To me, it sounds so terrifying one to 242 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: be shut up in a box. But to the idea 243 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: of being stood head down out four hours on end 244 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: like that is so scary. Uh. And from there after 245 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: the man collected the box. It was taken to the 246 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: Philadelphia Anti Slavery Society. They had a headquarters there and 247 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: underground Railroad conductor William Still, who was part of this 248 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: group that had assembled to receive the box, wrote of 249 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: the moment that the box was open, all was quiet, 250 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: the door had been safely locked. The proceedings commenced. Mr J. 251 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: M mckinn wrapped quietly on the lid of the box 252 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: and called out, all right. Instantly came the answer from within, 253 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: all right, sir. The witnesses will never forget that moment. 254 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: Saw and Hatchett quickly had the five hickory hoops cut 255 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: and the lid off, and the marvelous resurrection of Brown ensued. 256 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: Rising up in the box. He reached out his hands, saying, 257 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: how do you do, gentlemen? The little assemblage hardly knew 258 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: what to think or do at the moment. He was 259 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: about as wet as if he had come up out 260 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: of the Delaware. Very soon he remarked that before leaving Richmond, 261 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: he had selected for his arrival him if he lived 262 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: the psalm beginning with these words, I awaited patiently for 263 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: the Lord, and he heard my prayer. And most touchingly 264 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: did he sing the psalm, much to his own relief 265 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: as well as to the delight of his small audience. 266 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: So Henry Brown was free. The success of Brown's escape 267 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: also really caused a rift among abolitionists. There were people 268 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: who wanted to publicize it as a victory for the 269 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: anti slavery cause, and these folks thought that it might 270 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: inspire similarly creative ideas among enslaved people and their sympathizers. 271 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: But other people, including Frederick Douglas, thought that it should 272 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: be kept a secret. If you've heard our episode on 273 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas, he didn't want to publicize his own way 274 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: of escape because of the risk um. The logic was 275 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: that if they didn't let word get out that Henry 276 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: had escaped slavery in this manner, that other people could 277 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: potentially be free the same way. And Samuel Smith, who 278 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: was the white man who had assisted Brown in Virginia, 279 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: came to the decision as well that this shipping method 280 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: should be used to free other enslaved people. So Smith, 281 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: once again with the help of James Caesar. Anthony Smith 282 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: made another attempt on May eighth, eighteen forty nine, but 283 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: unfortunately their efforts were discovered. Both men were arrested. Although 284 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: James Smith did not face any jail time for his involvement, 285 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: he was kind of written off because as a black man, 286 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: they believed that he had not been smart enough to 287 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: really be a mastermind in this whole plan. But in 288 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: November of that year, Samuel Smith was sentenced to six 289 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: and a half years in prison. Ultimately, Henry, who was 290 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: now nicknamed Henry Box Brown, became a public story. It 291 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: was really not possible to keep the secret of such 292 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: an amazing escape secret. Within a matter of weeks, he 293 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: was well known within the abolitionist movement. Brown began touring 294 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: to the tale of his twenty seven hours in the 295 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: box to find his way to freedom. He first told 296 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: the story at the New England Anti Slavery Convention in 297 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: Boston at the end of May nine, so just two 298 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: months after he began. He also wrote his life story, 299 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: including his daring chip to freedom and actuality the same 300 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: This account, which is titled Narrative of Henry Box Brown, 301 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: was written largely by abolitionist Charles Stearns, who also published it. 302 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: Henry Brown and Charles Stearns actually went on book tour together, 303 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: and the proceeds from that book were used to fund 304 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: a new lecture tour and for his stage appearances. Henry 305 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: Brown developed his act to add a panoramic painting that 306 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: he had had commissioned titled Mirror of Slavery, and this 307 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: painting was spooled across the stage almost like a slide show, 308 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: to tell the story of how people had been stolen 309 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: from Africa and enslaved and what slavery in the US 310 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: was truly like from the enslaved person's perspective. His friend 311 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: James Caesar Anthony Smith, who had left Richmond after his 312 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: arrest and release, joined him on stage for these presentations. 313 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: The two men eventually had a falling out, however, and 314 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: we'll talk about that towards the end of the episode. 315 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: Next up, we're going to talk about how the Compromise 316 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: of eighteen fifty once again changed Henry's life, but we're 317 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: going to take another quick sponsor break before we get 318 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: to that part of the story. The Fugitive Slave Act 319 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: of eighteen fifty shifted Henry Box Brown's life yet again 320 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: for a quick refresher, This is a very quick version. 321 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: The Fugitive Slave Act was part of the Compromise of 322 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty. It stated that people who had escaped enslavement 323 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: and were found in states where slavery was abolished would 324 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,719 Speaker 1: still be shifted back to their owners with the support 325 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: of the federal government in their capture and return, and 326 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: that fugitive enslaved people were not entitled to jury trial 327 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: and they could not testify on their own behalf. In 328 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: August of a seen fifty, just before the Fugitive Slave 329 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: Act was asked, Brown was in Providence, Rhode Island, when 330 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: he was assaulted in the street. Was convinced him that 331 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: it wasn't safe to stay in the United States, so 332 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: he moved to England and took his stage show with him. 333 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: He continued to perform his anti slave react there, and 334 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: he added additional dimensions to it. In eighteen fifty one. 335 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: Henry Box Brown also wrote a second memoir, This one 336 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: titled Narrative of the Life of Henry Box Brown, written 337 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: by himself. In truth, it is almost exactly the same 338 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: as the first book, although it is written in less 339 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 1: flowery prose and includes additional details. While Brown was always 340 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: insistent that he had not been treated nearly as badly 341 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: as a lot of other enslaved people, he wanted to 342 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: add his voice to the other testimonies and narratives that 343 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: would evidence just how dehumanizing and wrong the institution of 344 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: slavery was. His book opens with a preface that reads, quote, 345 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: so much has already been written concerning the evils of slavery, 346 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: and by men so much more able to port tray. 347 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: It's hard form than I am. That I might well 348 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: be excused if I were to remain altogether silent on 349 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: the subject. But however much has been written, however much 350 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: has been said, and however much has been done. I 351 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: feel impelled by the voice of my own conscience, from 352 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: the recent experience which I've had of the alarming extent 353 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: to which the traffic and human beings carried on, and 354 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: the cruelties, both bodily and mental, to which men in 355 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: the condition of slaves are continually subjected, and also from 356 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: the hardening and blasting influences which this traffic produces on 357 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: the character of those who thus treat as goods and 358 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: chattels the bodies and souls of their fellows to add 359 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: yet one other testimony of and protest against this foul 360 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: blot of the state of morals, of religion, and of 361 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,479 Speaker 1: cultivation in the American Republic. For I feel convinced that 362 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: enough has not been written, enough has not been said, 363 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: enough has not been done, while nearly four millions of 364 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: human beings possessing immortal souls are in chains dragging out 365 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 1: their existence in the Southern States and just uh for 366 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: the sake of transparency, it is generally believed that Henry 367 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: Box Brown did not actually write all of this, even 368 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: though it is listed as written by himself. That probably 369 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: he verbally spoke all of this and someone took it 370 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: down and probably cleaned up the grammar for him. But 371 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: it is basically the same story that he was telling 372 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: on stage night after night after night, so it's corroborated 373 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: in his his verbal history. It's not as though someone 374 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: wrote a completely different version of his life. Uh So, 375 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: for the next twenty five years, Henry Box Brown lived 376 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: and performed in England, and he also married a second 377 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: wife there named Jane, and they started a family together. 378 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: During that time in England, he continued to tell his 379 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: tale of escape, but after his falling out with James Smith, 380 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 1: his act became less about abolition and more about magic. 381 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: He would perform slight of hand tricks where he transformed 382 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: a nail into an acorn, and on occasion he would 383 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: stage a re enactment of his box journey on stage, 384 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,239 Speaker 1: which played out like a magician's escape trick, but with 385 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: the added gravity of recalling his harrowing escape. In eighteen 386 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: fifty one, he staged a large scale re enactment of 387 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: his box escape when he had himself shipped from Bradford 388 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: to Leeds in West Yorkshire. And it is actually unknown 389 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: where Henry Box Brown first learned to perform magic tricks. 390 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: It could well have been as far back as his 391 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: childhood as something that was done among the enslaved people 392 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: as entertainment. But as his act evolved, his knowledge expanded 393 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: and he started to transform himself into other stage personas. 394 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: He would sometimes dress as an African chief and walk 395 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: through towns that he was touring into as an advertisement 396 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: for his shows, conjuring for this character version of himself 397 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: a noble lineage, and all of this done to entice 398 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: an audience. He began to combine the worlds of magic 399 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: and science as he and his act started exploring mesmerism 400 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: and electro biology. There's been speculation among Brown biographers that 401 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: the use of mesmerism or hypnotism offered him a chance 402 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: to try to control white audience members and a turnabout 403 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: of the power dynamic from when he was enslaved. Henry 404 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: Brown returned to the United States in eighteen seventy five 405 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: with his new family, his wife Jane and their daughter Annie, 406 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: and he billed himself as Professor Box Brown, and he 407 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: continued to tour as an entertainer, primarily in the Northeast 408 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: and then moving to Canada in the early eighteen eighties. 409 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: His act at this point had evolved so that in 410 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: additions who were laying his personal story, which always drew 411 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: a crowd, he would also do some of his tricks 412 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: and also give brief scientific lectures. He'd also give musical 413 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: performances under the heading Professor Box Brown's Troubadore Jubilee Singers 414 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: and which his family would perform. Song had been part 415 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 1: of his act for a law time when he talked 416 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 1: about slavery and abolition, and he said to have had 417 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: an outstanding voice. Henry Box Brown performed his magic act 418 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: in Ontario, Canada, on February of eighteen eighty nine, and 419 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: that is his last known stage appearance. For a long time, 420 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: the date and place of his death were always recounted 421 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: as unknown, and a lot of sources you look at 422 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 1: will still say they are not known. But in recent 423 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: years Martha J. Cutter, a professor of English and Africana 424 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: studies at the University of Connecticut, started looking for documentation 425 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: of the deaths and burials in the Toronto area, and 426 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: appears to have identified his death as June fifteenth, seven, 427 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: including locating his grave at the Necropolis Cemetery in Toronto. 428 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: Brown's wife, Jane, lived with their daughter, whose married name 429 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: was Annie Jefferson, until she died in four It's really 430 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: not clear what happened to Henry's first wife, Nancy, and 431 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: their four children together. You don't know if he sought 432 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: them out once he was free or after slavery was abolished. 433 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: And the fallout between Brown and James Smith that happened 434 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: back in eighteen fifty one was in part due to 435 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: Smith's criticism that Henry Box Brown hadn't tried to buy 436 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: his family's freedom. Yeah, we don't really know that whole 437 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 1: story though, for all we know, he did look into it, 438 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: or maybe he couldn't because it was too painful. We 439 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 1: have no idea. It's really interesting. One of the things 440 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: that that scholar we just mentioned, Martha J. Cutter, brought 441 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: up in an article I was reading, was how, in 442 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: a strange way, even though Henry Box Brown escaped slavery, 443 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: he was sort of a slave to his own life 444 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: story because he ended up telling it for decades and 445 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: decades over, even after it had been long past abolition 446 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: and not a tool to try to help educate people, 447 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: but just became like part of this narrative that he 448 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: had to live over and over, which was an interesting 449 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: perspective to have. There's also a really beautiful version of 450 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 1: this story from the podcast The Memory Palace. It's called 451 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: Picture a Box. It's really fascinating, and he used the 452 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: actual box that he was shipped from Richmond to Philadelphia 453 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: in as part of his stage show for a long time. 454 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: So there's this whole gravity to all of that. Like 455 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: I can't I mean, again, it's from my perspective, which 456 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: can't really understand his mindset at all, but like I 457 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: can't imagine having to like go through that over and 458 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: over and relive what had to have been a terrifying, 459 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: though ultimately successful experience. It's interesting to think about. I 460 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: have listener mail. Is it it's about Andrew Carnegie. It's 461 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: from our listener Kathy. We have mentioned her on the 462 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: show before, we read her listener email about Anne Lister, 463 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: but she wrote this morning and said, I just finished 464 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: the Andrew Carnegie episode. Towards the end, when you talked 465 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 1: about Carnegie wanting to buy off the Kaiser to end 466 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: World War One, you said he was stopped by President 467 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt. I'm sure you know that Teddy Roosevelt wasn't 468 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: president during World War One, and that Woodrow Wilson was. 469 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: Maybe you were just trying to keep your listeners on 470 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 1: our toes. So this is a clarification thing because that 471 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: is my clunky and poor synthesis of information. Uh, it 472 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: was Roosevelt's. But here is what was actually playing out. 473 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 1: It wasn't to end the war, but to prevent it 474 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: to begin with. So towards the end of the Bosnian Crisis, 475 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: which is a nineteen o nine, there were a lot 476 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: of other things happening in Europe that we're making it 477 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: pretty apparent that war was a very likely possibility, and 478 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: uh teddy. Roosevelt had promised Andrew Carnegie at that point 479 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: that he would be his envoy of peace two leaders 480 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: of Europe that Carnegie, even though he was very influential 481 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: at this point, just couldn't quite get connections to And 482 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: this was actually in exchange for Carnegie funding one of 483 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: Roosevelt's big game expeditions in Africa, which is very expensive. 484 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: And so Roosevelt had promised that he was going to 485 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: talk to the Kaiser and explain that he would relay 486 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: all of their conversations to Carnegie US auntually acting as 487 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 1: sort of a go between. And in n Roosevelt did 488 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: start his European tour UH and his meeting of kaiserville 489 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: Helm the second was going to be part of that, 490 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: and he was going to try to broker this piece, 491 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: but King Edward died in the midst of this process, 492 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: which halted all diplomatic discussions. Roosevelt and Wilhelm did meet, 493 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: but only unofficially, and they did not speak of the 494 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: piece plans that Andrew Carnegie had devised, which was part 495 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: of all of that. So that was my poor way 496 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: to um to put it in there. So that's my 497 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: apology for being clunky. But I wanted to read this 498 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: quote that Carnegie wrote about how this whole thing played out, 499 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: and it kind of evidence is how unhappy he was 500 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: and why he felt that his whole efforts at peace 501 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: at the time were kind of a failure. He said, quote, 502 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: there has been a fatal flaw in my strategy to 503 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: stop the war, the misplaced trust in those I counted 504 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: on as my colleagues in my quest for peace. Uh 505 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: So he felt like he failed in trusting Roosevelt because 506 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: he did not make good on his his promise to 507 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: broker a piece. Uh. 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