Speaker 1: Pushkin. There's a song I've turned to for years whenever
Speaker 1: I'm feeling counted out. It's called Against All Odds by
Speaker 1: the late great Tupac Shakur. And it's that song that
Speaker 1: kept coming to mind when I was speaking with UFC
Speaker 1: heavyweight Champ Francis and Ghani. And Ghanu literally fought his
Speaker 1: way up from a village in rural Cameroon against all
Speaker 1: possible odds to become one of the greatest competitors of
Speaker 1: all time in mixed martial arts. And Ghanu's story is
Speaker 1: one that's gonna stick with you for a while, even
Speaker 1: if you're not a fight fan. I mean to be honest,
Speaker 1: I betterly know the first thing about MMA, but continue
Speaker 1: to be riveted by and Ghanu's determination and spirit. And
Speaker 1: I'm excited to see what he does next. This is
Speaker 1: started from the bottom, hard earned success stories from people
Speaker 1: like us. Growing up, my favorite things was like action movie, combat, sport.
Speaker 1: What were the movies like? What did you love? Every
Speaker 1: kind of like action movie like Ramble dam the blood
Speaker 1: spoil sports, Oh man, that was fantastic. Hell I remember
Speaker 1: like watching um I think it was a blood spoil
Speaker 1: one A Vandam and tempo the movie that he kicked
Speaker 1: the tree with his kick. So after that, I went
Speaker 1: to the farm and then was kicking, just kicking banana
Speaker 1: until the third down and then yes, I kicking banana
Speaker 1: and then my hands. When she came back, she woke
Speaker 1: my ass because like there was a banana that we're
Speaker 1: supposed to eat, you could eat it. Yeah, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: ruining the bananas. Man. I was so much into like action,
Speaker 1: I need some action. So I went there kicked the
Speaker 1: hell out of those bananas, the banana trees. But had
Speaker 1: you not break? Was it the read like the trunk
Speaker 1: you were kicking. Yeah, but it's pretty soft though he
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with a tree, now, benana trunk
Speaker 1: is very is very soft. It can't hurt, but it
Speaker 1: can't break your food. Did you feel a sense of
Speaker 1: opportunity growing up, like did you feel like you could
Speaker 1: become something? I always felt like that. I always knew.
Speaker 1: I mean, even though there was an opportunity at all
Speaker 1: around me. But I do have a dream. I had
Speaker 1: a dream, and I think that was the biggest thing
Speaker 1: that I could have have in that position, you know,
Speaker 1: like see it like this. I grew up in the
Speaker 1: place that when we wake up, our biggest dream of
Speaker 1: the day is to eat something before go to sleep
Speaker 1: in the night, that was our biggest dream of the day,
Speaker 1: the mission of the day. So like I couldn't even
Speaker 1: go to school sometime because we were kicked out in
Speaker 1: the class due of maybe a pen or a notebook
Speaker 1: that we didn't have, or a scholar fee something like that.
Speaker 1: And that's even the reason why I started to work
Speaker 1: in the sand quarry, like when I was nine years old.
Speaker 1: So when you're in that type of situation and then
Speaker 1: you have this dream to become a work class boxer,
Speaker 1: what the hell is that? Like you should just focus
Speaker 1: be a farmer as your dad or your grandpa, or
Speaker 1: be a builder, a mechanic or stuff like that, or capender.
Speaker 1: And now I'm like, yeah, as much as it sounds cool,
Speaker 1: that's not what I want, you know, Like I just
Speaker 1: want to do this. And in my entire life, I've
Speaker 1: been fighting my family with my dream. People want to
Speaker 1: kill my dream and tell me how impossible is it?
Speaker 1: How I cannot make it? Couldn't just give up on it?
Speaker 1: When did your dream of becoming a boxer star? Honestly,
Speaker 1: like when I was kid, I love everything related to
Speaker 1: combat action. He could be a movie, a combat sport,
Speaker 1: a boxing matchic karate, as long as he say action.
Speaker 1: I loved it. But he was a one day. I
Speaker 1: was thirteen years old. I still remember that day like
Speaker 1: he was yesterday, even though he's been twenty three years.
Speaker 1: I get kicked out of the classroom someday, and that
Speaker 1: was like the time that you kind of like enough
Speaker 1: is enough. I was having enough to be embarrassed in
Speaker 1: the front of the class of other kids that would
Speaker 1: look at me like the guy that the guy that
Speaker 1: doesn't deserve to be there, to be among them because
Speaker 1: he has nothing. And that day they kicked me out
Speaker 1: of the classroom, and I was so upset about it, Like, men,
Speaker 1: what do I do to deserve this situation? What do
Speaker 1: I have less than other kids? Like, what is the
Speaker 1: difference between us? The difference is just that they are
Speaker 1: lucky enough to have the parents that can provide for them,
Speaker 1: unlike me. So that doesn't mean they deserve it better
Speaker 1: than I do. Matter of fact, I work hard to
Speaker 1: get all those stuff. I walk under the sun, the rain,
Speaker 1: in the weekend, in the holy days to have the
Speaker 1: minimum that I have, even though it's not enough, so
Speaker 1: at least I have a value of that, you know.
Speaker 1: So that was the turning point of my life. Then
Speaker 1: combined with the fact that my dad was fighting in
Speaker 1: the strait and kind of like have a reputation of
Speaker 1: the guy that fight everywhere, and I always like being
Speaker 1: a shame of not of him, but of what he
Speaker 1: was doing, and then promising myself not to become like him.
Speaker 1: Your dad, Yeah, but you didn't want to fight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't want to fight. But I don't want to
Speaker 1: fight in the street. I don't want to fight at
Speaker 1: school anymore because when I fight somewhere, they're just gonna say, like,
Speaker 1: they're gonna relate me to my dad, like yes, just
Speaker 1: like his dad, And I feel so bad about it.
Speaker 1: So I was contain my desire to fight until like
Speaker 1: when I was thirteen, the day that I was telling
Speaker 1: you earlier, that was the day that I figured out
Speaker 1: that boxing could be the thing that would combine everything.
Speaker 1: He will not only put me in the stage in
Speaker 1: front of other kids and prove them that I'm nothing
Speaker 1: less to them, I'm even better and I could be
Speaker 1: the number one. Are gonna be practicing doing what I
Speaker 1: love and in the good way, you know, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get appreciated of fighting, unlike my dad would get blamed
Speaker 1: from fighting and also get paid. That was like a bonus,
Speaker 1: a serious on the cake, you know, everything together. I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is cool, you know. From there on, like that
Speaker 1: was my goal to become a boxer. But problem, I'm
Speaker 1: thirteen years old. I'm in this little village that has
Speaker 1: nothing around. I never see a gym with my eyes,
Speaker 1: and there's not a gym in fifteen miles radios. So
Speaker 1: how do I find a boxing gym? I don't know
Speaker 1: how do a boxing gym? Looks like the only thing
Speaker 1: that I know about it was what I was watching
Speaker 1: in the movie on TV. But I've never been until
Speaker 1: like I think I was twenty two. Then I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: it's been so long, Like at some point I have
Speaker 1: to stop dreaming and really take action in order to
Speaker 1: accomplish the dream. So nine years, nine years, that dream
Speaker 1: does not go away. Oh he kept growing, he kept growing.
Speaker 1: Like before I left the village at twenty two years
Speaker 1: or I wasn't doing anything, Like I felt like everything
Speaker 1: that I was doing was worthless. You know, what were
Speaker 1: you doing? How are you? How are you surviving, sustaining yourself.
Speaker 1: I was still working in the sand quarry. I was
Speaker 1: a professional at that time. So what did that entail?
Speaker 1: What are you working at the sand quarry? Like, what
Speaker 1: did that entail? Dick, dig the sun from the mountain.
Speaker 1: Dig the mountain and then the water will carry the
Speaker 1: sun down, and then we're going to shovel from the
Speaker 1: water to put it outside and then shovel in the
Speaker 1: truck and they will use it for construction, you know.
Speaker 1: So that's what I was doing. I was also doing
Speaker 1: like a like a taxi with a motorcycle, as I
Speaker 1: don't know if you you have seen it in Africa.
Speaker 1: We get this those small motorcycle and we will do
Speaker 1: taxi with it. We can carry two or three people
Speaker 1: on it, yes, sometimes sitting on the gas tank in
Speaker 1: the front and you have like three people behind or
Speaker 1: two people with the with the back. And I was
Speaker 1: doing those stuff. Working at sand quarry does not sound fun.
Speaker 1: Sounds like tough, really hard work, you know, And a
Speaker 1: lot of people's dreams would die under conditions like that.
Speaker 1: Don't work like that that they just that they don't
Speaker 1: like that, they don't want to be doing. It's so
Speaker 1: far from what your dream was. A lot of people
Speaker 1: wouldn't the dream, wouldn't survive that, but you you also
Speaker 1: have to be you also have to be grateful about
Speaker 1: it because like at least it was something. It was
Speaker 1: something that we had to survive. It wasn't easy obviously,
Speaker 1: basically like starting from nine years old, but grown man's work. Though,
Speaker 1: it's a grown man's work. And that's why like my
Speaker 1: brother and I we were the only kids in that
Speaker 1: sand quarry at first, but lucky I was a little
Speaker 1: bigger than nine years old kids and they're stronger, so
Speaker 1: and we didn't have any opportunity, any choice. So and
Speaker 1: the reason why my dream didn't die. Even though I
Speaker 1: was grateful about that job, Like I was looking at
Speaker 1: people there, maybe some people that have been in that environment,
Speaker 1: those type of job for twenty years, and I couldn't
Speaker 1: see myself there for twenty years. I'm like, Okay, what's
Speaker 1: gonna happen when I turned fifty when I won't be
Speaker 1: strong enough to keep shoveling sand or to dig the mountain?
Speaker 1: Like I can't do this my entire life, And what
Speaker 1: would be the heritage that I will live to my family?
Speaker 1: For your kids? Yeah, yeah, to my kids, like this
Speaker 1: can be it, you know, I can just take it
Speaker 1: and sit here. I have to do something. Not sure
Speaker 1: what I was going to do was going to work,
Speaker 1: but one thing that I was always sure is that
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it. I'm going to try and
Speaker 1: that was my drive. So tell me about the moves
Speaker 1: you make then to get out of Cameroon and fulfill
Speaker 1: your dream of becoming a fighter professional boxer. Oh Man.
Speaker 1: At twenty two, I went to the city and then
Speaker 1: I started boxing, and he became very clear that in
Speaker 1: order to pursue that dream, I have to leave Cameron
Speaker 1: because once again there wasn't enough opportunity there to be
Speaker 1: on the big stage. I want to leave Cameron. By
Speaker 1: the way, that's not like young. I mean, that's kind
Speaker 1: of old to be starting a boxing career, right yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's what everybody says, like he's old. You're old.
Speaker 1: You can't do it. It's not possible. This I mean
Speaker 1: I left Cameron. I was twenty twenty six. Yeah, after
Speaker 1: being in the city for four years. I left Cameroon.
Speaker 1: I was twenty six. And not only I was twenty six,
Speaker 1: I didn't even know where I was going. I have
Speaker 1: to migrate, move country to country, city after city like
Speaker 1: a baby step go over all the against all the
Speaker 1: immigration law and at different borders, take me to that journey. Man,
Speaker 1: that's it's a wild story. Yeah. So, like I left Cameroon,
Speaker 1: next country in Nigeria, and then Niger, then Algeria, then
Speaker 1: Morocco and then from Morocco, we're trying to get to
Speaker 1: Spain like by a inflatable boat or whatever we can do.
Speaker 1: And it took me like one years. From Morocco. I
Speaker 1: spent like one years in Morocco. The entire June to
Speaker 1: get in France was like fourteen months. But I'm happy
Speaker 1: I finally made it because a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: make it, so I made. People don't make it. People
Speaker 1: get sent back, people people get back, people die, people die,
Speaker 1: people get killed. A lot of things happen, man, Like
Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. Like when you're in that world, it's insane
Speaker 1: what you can see, what's possible. Like your life was zero,
Speaker 1: Like not only nobody cares about your life, even you.
Speaker 1: You don't care about your life anymore at some point
Speaker 1: because like you kind of like in the position that
Speaker 1: you feel like you have nothing to lose, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then you do some stupid shit like insane, like what man,
Speaker 1: those the reass that we took, like we would take
Speaker 1: the inflatable boat those board that you use for the
Speaker 1: swimming pool to put in in the ocean to patron
Speaker 1: to go to Europe. I mean it's like five the minimum.
Speaker 1: The closest will be like five miles. But you can't
Speaker 1: imagine the wave. The wave in the on the beach
Speaker 1: is insane. And we have to like hide from police,
Speaker 1: from the security, from the from the how they say,
Speaker 1: the immigration patrol and yeah, the immigration patrol, all those stuff,
Speaker 1: and then he always have to be at night and
Speaker 1: blind you can see every anything. We would like try
Speaker 1: and to get there inflate our boat. And how many
Speaker 1: people on one of those little pool raps I depend
Speaker 1: It could be up to twelve people, it depends. It's crazy,
Speaker 1: Like would a float even I mean he's floated, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean sometimes he could. He gets stopped in the
Speaker 1: middle of the ocean. And that's it. When you can
Speaker 1: start what happens. Guess when you stop in the middle
Speaker 1: of the ocean, then what happened? It's done. You're done.
Speaker 1: It's over, man, it's just over. Yeah, what do you
Speaker 1: what do you like? I guess when that kind of
Speaker 1: thing happens, do you have the thought that maybe I
Speaker 1: just go back to Cameroon or do you immediately have
Speaker 1: I got to try again? You always think about like
Speaker 1: going back, but for what. What you don't know when
Speaker 1: you leave your country is that it's get harder and harder.
Speaker 1: And then when you get to some when you start,
Speaker 1: you I'm like, oh, this is hard, and then you
Speaker 1: feel like you're some sort of like badass and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm doing it, you know. And then it's keep getting
Speaker 1: harder and harder day after days, week after week, months,
Speaker 1: and then you kind of like get exhausted, like physically, mentally, financially,
Speaker 1: like you're exhausted, you know, and also like you kind
Speaker 1: of like bet everything on yourself to get there. So
Speaker 1: at that point, by the time that you really get exhausted,
Speaker 1: you have lost everything, so nothing left behind to go
Speaker 1: back for whatever was your safe that you had. You
Speaker 1: have to spend it all in order to make another
Speaker 1: step another step, and then you get blocked in the middle.
Speaker 1: You can go back, there's nothing behind, so the only
Speaker 1: option is like keep going after the break Francis gets
Speaker 1: to a place where he's finally free to chase his
Speaker 1: dream of becoming a boxer. Once you find the god,
Speaker 1: explain what did you do? Oh, I get in the
Speaker 1: chair because we get caught. We get caught in the ocean.
Speaker 1: I mean not like cod We get rescued by the
Speaker 1: Red Cross. But the thing, the Red Cross has an
Speaker 1: obligation to call the Homeland Security and tell them that, okay,
Speaker 1: we rescue some some people in the ocean, and we
Speaker 1: have no idea of the illegal situation. So when they
Speaker 1: bring us back on the court, they hang us to
Speaker 1: the Homeland Security, to the border police that would now
Speaker 1: take us to a police station, do all the questioning
Speaker 1: and then bring us to chair. And did you figure
Speaker 1: us over at that point back to back home? No,
Speaker 1: at that point we know we knew everything about immigration.
Speaker 1: You become an expert. Oh it's crazy how you what
Speaker 1: you can learn from being in the position. Like you
Speaker 1: can go to school for years and don't learn much,
Speaker 1: but when you're living in it, it's crazy how much
Speaker 1: you learn. We know all the immigration, all the countries
Speaker 1: that are allowed to deport every step along the way.
Speaker 1: We know what African country has a good relationship with
Speaker 1: whush country. And then when we get there we are
Speaker 1: just like, oh, we are from Malie. When when we
Speaker 1: are in Algeria, everybody is from Malie because Malie and
Speaker 1: Algeria has a good relationship. So everybody in Algeria is
Speaker 1: from Mali. And you you better find yourself a Malian
Speaker 1: a Malian passport, yea, even if from our leader from Ali.
Speaker 1: Just look at some passport, looks at somebody who looks
Speaker 1: like you, gives it to you, and then you give
Speaker 1: the money. And then when you get to Morocco, you're
Speaker 1: better off being a Senegalian than anything else because otherwise
Speaker 1: they're gonna send you in the desert every time. And
Speaker 1: then when they send you to the desert two three times,
Speaker 1: you realize that you have to find your way to
Speaker 1: be that Senegalles otherwise otherwise you're gonna keep going down
Speaker 1: to the desert and that trip. That trip is not fun.
Speaker 1: So you do what you have to do. You learn
Speaker 1: what you have to learn. It's not by choice, you're
Speaker 1: forced to. So yeah, when we get in a Spain,
Speaker 1: we knew all those stuff and that was the first
Speaker 1: place that we were like, I mean, as a Cameroonian.
Speaker 1: You're very happy at that moment because like, we don't
Speaker 1: have it a deportation law, so when you say you're
Speaker 1: from Cameroon, they can't expect to depart you to Cameroon.
Speaker 1: So Spain more, Spain can do it. No, they cannot
Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, if you're detained for a couple of months. Yeah,
Speaker 1: after we will be detained for two months days association
Speaker 1: than that, come and bear for us kind of and
Speaker 1: then the free us. You can stay there or you
Speaker 1: can leave. But at that time they don't want to
Speaker 1: stay in Spin. Some people stay in Spin. But I
Speaker 1: didn't want to stay in Spin because I have I
Speaker 1: was going somewhere. My best option would be like England.
Speaker 1: But the problem with England, even though you're in Europe,
Speaker 1: you still need another authorization to get there, so it's
Speaker 1: pretty hard and then you have to go through the
Speaker 1: same process. I'm like, man, I'm tired. I'm not doing
Speaker 1: this anymore. I don't know how long it's gonna take,
Speaker 1: maybe a week or a month or a year. And
Speaker 1: I'm getting old. I was twenty seven, twenty seven months takeaway. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So then I decided to go to Germany because at
Speaker 1: the time. Heavyweight boxing was very big in Germany with
Speaker 1: the clich Goo brother brothers and others, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to Germany. For some reason, I stopped getting
Speaker 1: the bus that we stopped in Paris. Then I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: let's spend some few days in Paris. And that was it.
Speaker 1: I was day in Paris. But I mean I felt
Speaker 1: very comfortable just then in Paris that I just wanted
Speaker 1: someplace with the opportunity to get where I wanted and
Speaker 1: to do what I want, you know, and this is
Speaker 1: not bad. Let's just settle here, focused on the goal,
Speaker 1: on the dream. So once you once you're in Paris,
Speaker 1: how do you get how do you get into the
Speaker 1: UFC because your dreams to be a boxer? Yeah, Oh,
Speaker 1: a lot of things happened in Paris. When I went
Speaker 1: in Paris. The next day, I go out and look
Speaker 1: for a gym. I found this gym named the Kajin
Speaker 1: Kjein and I met a guy there named DJ Carmel
Speaker 1: and he was giving the class that day because the
Speaker 1: coach wasn't there. I explained everything to him and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I just needed a place to train. I can't pay
Speaker 1: and he said he's going to speak to the coach
Speaker 1: on my behalf and see what he can do. So
Speaker 1: after three days he gave me a call and say, yes,
Speaker 1: it's good, you can come train. And that's where I
Speaker 1: started training. What did he call you? Right? Where are
Speaker 1: you staying? In the parking lot? We found a parking lot.
Speaker 1: I was sleeping in the parking lot. It was pretty cool. Listen.
Speaker 1: He wasn't about where I was staying. It wasn't about
Speaker 1: the condition that I was living in. You know, by
Speaker 1: that time, I have seen so worse, so like from
Speaker 1: what I was doing, from what I've been through in Morocco,
Speaker 1: Like being in the parking lot was like being in
Speaker 1: the five style hotel though, like parking lot in Paris
Speaker 1: and you can't. Yeah, And the most important thing like
Speaker 1: the freedom, like the first time for so long that
Speaker 1: I feel free, like relax, you know, and I'm like, finally,
Speaker 1: this is what I ever wanted. Like you might look
Speaker 1: at that like he's horrible, but I mean, so far
Speaker 1: is one of the best moments of my life. The
Speaker 1: moment that you come with hope. I'm like, this is
Speaker 1: the opportunity that I've been wanted. Now I get it.
Speaker 1: You know, so the ball is ont of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's the first day. Yeah, I'm like, this is it.
Speaker 1: I always seek for this opportunity. I have it. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not about where I'm sleeping now, but it's where
Speaker 1: I'm going to be sleeping. So you that coach who
Speaker 1: wasn't even the coach at the gym, he talks to
Speaker 1: the guy that owner on your behalf and yeah, he
Speaker 1: talked to the coach and then he called me. And
Speaker 1: then when I come there, he was always around trying
Speaker 1: to like help me, support me, give me close. I
Speaker 1: mean by the way, Like he was the the one
Speaker 1: that gave me my first apartment. Yeah, from the street.
Speaker 1: I went to his apartment. He has some apartment that
Speaker 1: he was putting in the rent and he gave me
Speaker 1: these two months and then I found my way. And
Speaker 1: he was the one that like gave me my He
Speaker 1: brought me to the sneaker shop and like choose one
Speaker 1: pair of sneaker, my first, my first sneaker in Paris.
Speaker 1: Like he was around a lot, you know, he was
Speaker 1: around a lot, helped me, being very supportive. What did
Speaker 1: they think of your boxing scale? He was the one
Speaker 1: telling me about MMA because like. He was also a
Speaker 1: big guy. So in the gym, I was sparring with
Speaker 1: him and he would tell me like how good my
Speaker 1: boxing is and how much potential I have. But if
Speaker 1: I transit into MMA, I'll be having the fastest income
Speaker 1: regarding my situation, you know. And that was the first
Speaker 1: time that I'm like that I've heard from MM. And
Speaker 1: then I'm like, what is MMA? He hadn't explained me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't know what was M me And this was
Speaker 1: like what sometime by the end of the end of
Speaker 1: June or early twenty twenty thirteen. Yeah, then keep pushing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, bro, I don't want any of that.
Speaker 1: I just want like, yeah, I like boxing, like sweet boxing,
Speaker 1: those wrestling staff ground I place. Yeah, what convinced your family?
Speaker 1: What convinced you? So the gym was close during the
Speaker 1: holiday or during August, the entire amount of August, so
Speaker 1: I was looking for some place to keep training. And
Speaker 1: then I asked the manager of the association that I
Speaker 1: want to go next door see if they have a
Speaker 1: boxing class day because I want to keep training. We
Speaker 1: have a good relationship. I can't talk on your behalf,
Speaker 1: you know. Then I'm like yes, So he went there,
Speaker 1: met a guy named the guy that was in the fronds,
Speaker 1: I think it was a part or no named Frank,
Speaker 1: very nice guy. He just came. I'm like, yes, we like,
Speaker 1: we would like to have him and this and that,
Speaker 1: and that's how he started because that was an MMA gym.
Speaker 1: So I went there and keep doing boxing and come
Speaker 1: to MMA class a lot of MMA because he was entertaining.
Speaker 1: I was having fun training practice, but I didn't want
Speaker 1: anything to do with MMA career and people. I'm like, yes,
Speaker 1: USC these or if you do this, you're gonna be
Speaker 1: in the vis or you're gonna become a weird UFCA
Speaker 1: champion one day. I'm like, what do I care about
Speaker 1: USA or being a UFC champion? At that moment, I
Speaker 1: didn't care at all. Like I was so focused on
Speaker 1: boxing that I don't want like anybody or anything to
Speaker 1: deviate me from my dream. Yea, and dream was specific.
Speaker 1: It was dream was very specific. But you know, things
Speaker 1: kind of like putting meself alone, like one by one,
Speaker 1: step by step, and like two years after even without
Speaker 1: really like focusing on MMA, and then I have a
Speaker 1: UFCA contract. That was the moment that I'm like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: how you get the contract? When we come back from
Speaker 1: our final break, Francis talks about how we got iss
Speaker 1: UFC contract and going on to become the heavyweight champion
Speaker 1: of the world. Hold on, well, how you get the contract?
Speaker 1: Two years after after a shoot MMA fight, that's when
Speaker 1: I have it. I was like six after six fights
Speaker 1: in MMA, six fights? He didn't did you do those
Speaker 1: thinking wanting the contract? Did you do those more just
Speaker 1: for fun? No? First he was to stay active. Then
Speaker 1: at some point I started getting paid a little bit.
Speaker 1: I mean it was more than welcome those little check
Speaker 1: what we're getting paid? What was like? What were the
Speaker 1: checks at that time? Oh? My first check was a tournament.
Speaker 1: I fought twice in the same night and get paid
Speaker 1: two thousand year twice in the same night. Though, that's
Speaker 1: why get paid two thousand year O. That was my
Speaker 1: first check. Then after that I get fight for three
Speaker 1: hundred eight hundred until like I fought in Bahrain for
Speaker 1: six thousand. That was my biggest CHECKO. And that was
Speaker 1: my second fight in the octagon in Bahrain, Barrain. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then right after that UFC. It was until then that
Speaker 1: I realized that okay, this might be the opportunity, Like
Speaker 1: what was my goal at first to become a world
Speaker 1: champion in the combat spot? This is it. This might
Speaker 1: not be a bosing. This is a combat spot, and
Speaker 1: I can also become a world champion. You sound accountable.
Speaker 1: I'm a big moment. That's a big moment. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I realized that this is the opportunity. But the
Speaker 1: thing that I was more scaled, you know, it was
Speaker 1: it was the two years that I wasn't really committed
Speaker 1: to the spot then then I wasn't really like I
Speaker 1: didn't really feel it, you know, no experience in the
Speaker 1: combat sport. Like I remember even being in Orlando for
Speaker 1: my first fight, I was asking myself, like, what is
Speaker 1: the rules? What are the rules of this sport? I
Speaker 1: really don't know. I'm like, man, I'm going to fight
Speaker 1: in the world stage in the spot and I don't
Speaker 1: even know the rules, you know, Like in my mind,
Speaker 1: I was just like, WHOA, I hope this was a
Speaker 1: boxing fight because I was so comfortable in boxing that
Speaker 1: I wouldn't care if it was a boxing I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have to think about stuff, but I wouldn't have to
Speaker 1: think about the rules that allowed that I have to
Speaker 1: think on a lot of things, and he was I
Speaker 1: didn't have those massy memory yet, you know, like now
Speaker 1: I would do stuff instantly even without thinking about it.
Speaker 1: Back then, I had to think about everything that I
Speaker 1: am doing, you know, like okay, what about this? What
Speaker 1: about this? If this happened, how do I do this?
Speaker 1: You know, like just when you start something, you think
Speaker 1: too much about it. That was what happened? Was your
Speaker 1: strategy maybe then to just try on that first fight,
Speaker 1: to try to keep it just boxing, like we were like,
Speaker 1: maybe I'll trug when it's only on box. I knew
Speaker 1: that I was I was the guy wasn't going to
Speaker 1: box me. Basically he was a wrestler. Oh, he was
Speaker 1: a wrestler and jiujitsu guy. Like, so, how did that
Speaker 1: fight go? How did that first fight go? Well? First
Speaker 1: round we struggled some wrestling, I got took down once
Speaker 1: and then defend like fourth takedown. I think he he
Speaker 1: was clear that he didn't want anything to do with me, like, uh,
Speaker 1: striking like he was just punching. No, he was just
Speaker 1: shooting in my leg, shooting my leg, trying to trip
Speaker 1: you take it down, yes, and then when he's there
Speaker 1: he will stay there like forever. And then after like
Speaker 1: four or five times, he get exhausted, you know, like
Speaker 1: when you're trying to take somebody down over and over,
Speaker 1: you get exhausted. So in the middle of the second
Speaker 1: round get knocked out. You knocked him out, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: knocked him out like badly. At that point, you're kind
Speaker 1: of squarely, you're firmly in the world of UFC, and
Speaker 1: you're kind of unstoppable, right. Well, that was the beginning.
Speaker 1: That was just the beginning, because like I was staying
Speaker 1: in Paris at that time. After that, then I keep
Speaker 1: fighting and everything was going good, Like I won my
Speaker 1: first six fight in the UFA, then get to the
Speaker 1: to the title fight, then lost in the title that
Speaker 1: would have my first loss in the title trying to
Speaker 1: become the world champion essentially, how tell me about that fight? Well, um,
Speaker 1: because now you get into the real dream to be
Speaker 1: world champion in a combat sport, and this is the
Speaker 1: fight that's going to determine it. Yeah, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a difference between the dream and the reality. I have
Speaker 1: all those dreams and then I was getting in the octagon,
Speaker 1: getting all those easy fight knock people out in the
Speaker 1: first first minute, get performance of the night every time,
Speaker 1: So it was quite easy, and I didn't really understand
Speaker 1: like the sport didn't have an experience. They didn't even
Speaker 1: know how they train or how they get prepared for
Speaker 1: that level of fight. So kind of like get everything
Speaker 1: wrong on that tirefight, that first one, and so far
Speaker 1: I think it's the best. Is the best experience that
Speaker 1: I have in my career. Is the best fight in
Speaker 1: my career the one I lost because like even though
Speaker 1: I didn't the outcome wasn't what I wanted. But what
Speaker 1: I have learned from that fight led me to become
Speaker 1: the champion today. As I always I always say, like
Speaker 1: if I didn't lost to stip It the first time,
Speaker 1: I could have easily lost to step It a second time.
Speaker 1: But I learned. I learned a lot from that fight
Speaker 1: than any or the fight. Can you walk with you
Speaker 1: the fight then and what you're learning as best to
Speaker 1: remember it is, I remember everything, but it's very hard
Speaker 1: to explain. First of all, like I was, I was
Speaker 1: under this pressure, and the worst thing is that I
Speaker 1: didn't even know that I was under the pressure until
Speaker 1: I get in the fight and the way that I
Speaker 1: was acting. Then I watched the tape after and then
Speaker 1: I'm like, what the hell is this guy? It looks
Speaker 1: like me, but it's not me, Like that's not how
Speaker 1: I do. But yes, you're pretty calm in the ring, right,
Speaker 1: like you're a calming In that fight, I wasn't calm
Speaker 1: at all. I was going all over throwing, like I
Speaker 1: went there to basically like with the intention to knock
Speaker 1: him out, which is something that I've never done, even
Speaker 1: though I have a lot of knockout he just I
Speaker 1: just let it come on his own. But I never
Speaker 1: like worked there to knock somebody out. And that was
Speaker 1: the first time I think, like I thought I just
Speaker 1: gonna walk walk him through and knock him out, and
Speaker 1: it didn't work. And it was nerves, not confidence or both.
Speaker 1: He was nerves, he was pressure, he was everything. And
Speaker 1: to be honest, when I look at how I get
Speaker 1: prepared into that fight, he wasn't a right way. I
Speaker 1: have never fought three round five, so that was a
Speaker 1: five round five. You know, I have to go through
Speaker 1: five rounds. I literally, like really never get punched into
Speaker 1: five before then then I have to get hit a
Speaker 1: lot in that fight. And I was so exhausted that
Speaker 1: at some point I'm like, Wow, I think this guy
Speaker 1: is just not strong enough to finish me because I
Speaker 1: have nothing less. Wow. So it's just like the first
Speaker 1: time that I've heard you kind of admit to yourself
Speaker 1: in your head that like maybe I don't have I
Speaker 1: can't get it done. Maybe I can't get it done.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I mean you can't fool everybody, but you
Speaker 1: can't fool yourself. Yeah. I know exactly what happened in
Speaker 1: that fight. I know that I couldn't move my body anymore.
Speaker 1: At some point, I was just so exhausted. I couldn't
Speaker 1: just like give up, but I was done. In the
Speaker 1: aftermath of that, What was the feedback you were getting
Speaker 1: from like just the UFC, the fighting community. Oh, you know,
Speaker 1: it was like my downfall. I think people was expecting
Speaker 1: too much from me that they get disappointed and a
Speaker 1: lot of people get pissed off. And he was very hot.
Speaker 1: Like I remember at some point I couldn't open even
Speaker 1: my social media for like weeks because when I when
Speaker 1: I opened it, I would just see some main command
Speaker 1: or some main article or something, and I'm like, damn,
Speaker 1: you know, get out of it. You know, I get
Speaker 1: to the point that I'm like, I don't care what
Speaker 1: these people said. Yeah, they don't do anything with their life.
Speaker 1: They don't have a dream, then they have never done anything.
Speaker 1: Their only day is like to hit on people. I
Speaker 1: like them. I mean, I'm not doing bad. I fight
Speaker 1: so hard to get here, and it doesn't matter what happened.
Speaker 1: At least I have tried and I have done something,
Speaker 1: and I have tried so hard. You know, I have
Speaker 1: to make that immense with myself to be able to
Speaker 1: move on. And therefore, I think I was stronger than
Speaker 1: before because I understand that or the element that I
Speaker 1: didn't know was like the opinion, the people opinion or
Speaker 1: the media or whatever is it. You know, I just
Speaker 1: learned how to focus on me and what I have
Speaker 1: to do. If he works, good, if he doesn't, it's okay.
Speaker 1: As long as I know that I give my best.
Speaker 1: I'm good with that. Therefore, I don't give a shite
Speaker 1: of what anybody think. If you're with me, good, If
Speaker 1: you're not good luck yeah yeah yeah. So after that
Speaker 1: little bit of not be able to open your social
Speaker 1: media looking your wounds a little bit, at that point,
Speaker 1: I'm sure, how do you bounce back where he gave
Speaker 1: me mentally like I went to my next fight. Then
Speaker 1: that where I realized that I haven't dealed with my
Speaker 1: previous fight because I was in my next fight. I mean, honest,
Speaker 1: I never show up in my next fight, you know,
Speaker 1: because I was there to fighting, trying to correct the
Speaker 1: mistake from the past fight. Like, oh, I should have
Speaker 1: been more patient than I was too patient, over patient
Speaker 1: because I blame myself too much from Russian I was
Speaker 1: just like, okay, hold back like yourself become you have
Speaker 1: all the time. And then like I didn't even believe
Speaker 1: when the fight was over, like because I didn't really fight,
Speaker 1: I was mentally not there. That's a beautiful way of
Speaker 1: putting it, that you didn't even show up to that
Speaker 1: I didn't show up. I was in the middle of
Speaker 1: the last one. Yeah, I was in the middle of
Speaker 1: the cage, was thinking of my last fight with my
Speaker 1: opening in front of me, was thinking of my last fight.
Speaker 1: I kind of like understand now why Because I was
Speaker 1: so concerned about what people think. I didn't have any
Speaker 1: confidence on me anymore, and I wasn't even doing it
Speaker 1: for me. There was so much pressure on my shoulder
Speaker 1: at the time that the spot that I started for
Speaker 1: fun get to the point that he wasn't fun anymore.
Speaker 1: Then after my second loss, that was the moment that
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, why am I year all? They started
Speaker 1: because it was fun. I went to the gym the
Speaker 1: first time and keep going in the MMA gym because
Speaker 1: I was having fun. Am I having fun anymore? No?
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about what people are thinking of me,
Speaker 1: what this guy's thinking of me? Why do I care?
Speaker 1: And I tell myself, like, okay, if this is it,
Speaker 1: let it end on my way, you know, have fun.
Speaker 1: And that's how I walked to my next fight. I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: if I lost, it's okay. As long as I have phone,
Speaker 1: I go out there, don't care about losing, because like,
Speaker 1: you care so much about losing that you don't fight anymore.
Speaker 1: When you start care about losing, you don't fight. That's
Speaker 1: what happened in my second loss, Like I was so
Speaker 1: concerned about losing that I didn't fight because I didn't
Speaker 1: want to lose. This is a difference between going and
Speaker 1: anything with the idea of I don't want to fail,
Speaker 1: and going into something the idea that I want to succeed,
Speaker 1: Like you were going into there saying I don't want
Speaker 1: to fail. The problem is that when you don't want
Speaker 1: to fail, you're not taking a chance to succeed, right,
Speaker 1: You're timid. Yeah, you have to take a chance to
Speaker 1: fail in order to succeed. You know, we talked about
Speaker 1: your your loss to steep A. You eventually got a
Speaker 1: chance to challenge them and beat them and become a
Speaker 1: world champion, and to defend that and win that defense.
Speaker 1: Your contract in the UFC's up next month, December twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two. And it's an interesting position. I'd say you
Speaker 1: find yourself in from my advantage point, and you may disagree.
Speaker 1: You're in a sport that you sort of fell into
Speaker 1: a lucky way. Luckily you fell into MMA, but your
Speaker 1: dream was in a way, to always be a boxer.
Speaker 1: You're you're lucky to become a world champion. You put
Speaker 1: in the work, you sort of fulfilled what you can
Speaker 1: do in UFC. The pay disparity between what UFC fighters
Speaker 1: make and what boxers stand to make is very different.
Speaker 1: Do you feel yourself in a position where it's like
Speaker 1: you're almost overqualified for the UFC. It's like you you've
Speaker 1: done a lot. No, No, not overqualified. I think if
Speaker 1: you say overqualified is misspoken. But there's more you can
Speaker 1: do in a way, there's more you can earn, you're
Speaker 1: earning potentials. Yeah, but no, the problem is not how
Speaker 1: UFC fighter get paid over over boxers, you know, Like,
Speaker 1: it's not about how much you're making, and it's not
Speaker 1: mostly about the amount of the money. It's about what
Speaker 1: is on the table, the part that you're getting, what
Speaker 1: you're getting of the whole pie. Right, Yes, so what
Speaker 1: you're getting of the whole pie. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: expect anybody to take money out of his pocket to
Speaker 1: pay me, right, I'm just saying what we do together,
Speaker 1: if he provide something, treat me fairly. I'm not here
Speaker 1: to compare my salary into boxing or to world. Back
Speaker 1: in the days on Fighter, the fighters was fighting for
Speaker 1: less than what we're fighting today. Some of them was
Speaker 1: paying fairly, And today I can be paying most and
Speaker 1: think I'm not getting paid fairly because I just think
Speaker 1: we're generating more than the sport. The job that we're
Speaker 1: doing is generating more than he was. That's it. That's it.
Speaker 1: So it's not like overqualified. You can be overqualified for
Speaker 1: a sport. Do you feel like you have a decision
Speaker 1: to make to reap with the UFC or try something else. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know what what I want to do. For sure.
Speaker 1: I always see myself in the UFCA, you know, like
Speaker 1: maybe thinking of at some point be the bridge between
Speaker 1: the UFC and Africa. Take those opportunity back. Maybe the
Speaker 1: ambassador kind of like represent the brand in Africa. So
Speaker 1: this as a proof of my commitment to the company,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. So now I still wish, I still
Speaker 1: hope for that, but I think something are broken and
Speaker 1: need to be fixed. I have a short time in
Speaker 1: the combat spot and I want to maximize it and
Speaker 1: then until the day that I don't feel like doing
Speaker 1: it anymore, then I step away, I walk away and
Speaker 1: do something else, whatever it's possible to do. I'm sure
Speaker 1: we're going to do it down the road. Yeah yeah, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: Francis and Down, thank you for taking the time. Man,
Speaker 1: I you it's it's an incredible life story. You have
Speaker 1: incredible insights, and yeah, it's just honored man, Thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me. Since my conversation with Francis
Speaker 1: and Gon who he's let his UFC contract laps and
Speaker 1: is eyeing a match with one of boxing's biggest names, Tyson, Fury,
Speaker 1: and Ghan was ready to bet on himself again, this
Speaker 1: time to achieve his childhood dream of becoming a world
Speaker 1: class boxer. Betting on yourself, of course, isn't the easiest
Speaker 1: thing to do. There's a lot of room for failure,
Speaker 1: but as Francis is noting, there's also room for exponential growth.
Speaker 1: Started from the Bottom is produced by David Jaw, edited
Speaker 1: by Keishaw Williams, Engineered by Benaliday, Booked by Laura Morgan
Speaker 1: with production help from Lea Rose. The show's executive produced
Speaker 1: by Jacob Boldstein, who's not all up in the videos
Speaker 1: for Pushkin Industries. Our theme music's by Benaliday and David
Speaker 1: Jaw featuring Anthony Aggs and Stvannah Joe Lack. Listen to
Speaker 1: Start It from the Bottom. Wherever you get your podcasts
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Speaker 1: review us on your podcast app. I'm justin Richmond,