1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Viewers across the world have 2 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: branded a new Netflix special quote the most horrifying and 3 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: sickening true crime documentary on Netflix. I'm talking about the 4 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: Netflix documentary Girl in the Picture, which details how a 5 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: man named Frank Adelano Floyd kidnapped a six year old 6 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: little girl, posed her as his daughter, and then married her. 7 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: How was that happening in our country? Where you steal 8 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: a little girl, pose her as your own daughter, then 9 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,559 Speaker 1: marry her. I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank 10 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and 11 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: series XM one eleven. It's a really twisted story with 12 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: a lot of alias's aka's twists and turns, but we're 13 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: going to try to get to the truth of what 14 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: happened to this six year old little girl kidnapped, posed 15 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: as the bio daughter of her kidnapper, and then married 16 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: to her kidnapper. First of all, let's just start at 17 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: the beginning. Take a listen to our friends at crime 18 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 1: online dot com. Suzanne Savanka's story is a complicated one 19 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: that begins with her mother, Sandy Shipman. Shipman has four children. 20 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: She meets Brandon Williams and the couple dates for just 21 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: one month, and then Maria moved from North Carolina to Texas. 22 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: The wedded bliss doesn't last long. Shipman writes a bad 23 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: check in his jail for thirty days. Shipman returns home 24 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: after serving her time, but her husband and children are gone. 25 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: Shipman is able to find her younger daughters, Alison and 26 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: Amy and foster care, but has no luck in locating 27 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: five year old Susanne Savaka sent her younger brother Philip. Okay, 28 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: WHOA how does that happen in our country? Number one, 29 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: If you write a bad check, you're not going to 30 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: jail because they don't even keep rapists and child hollusterers 31 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: and agassaulters in jail, so or a total revolving door. 32 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: But at that time in Texas, Oh, yes, you're going 33 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: to jail for about check. I need to hear that 34 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: one more time. Take a listen again to our friend 35 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: Dave Matt at crime online dot com. Suzanne Savanka's story 36 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: is a complicated one that begins with her mother, Sandy Shipman. 37 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: Shipman has four children. She meets Brandon Williams and the 38 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: couple dates for just one month, and then Marian moved 39 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: from North Carolina to Texas. The wedded bliss doesn't last long. 40 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: Shipman writes a bad check in its jail for thirty days. 41 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: Shipman returns home after serving her time, but her husband 42 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: and children are gone. It is able to find her 43 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: younger daughters, Alison and Amy in foster care, but has 44 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: no luck in locating five year old Susanne. Slovakia sent 45 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: her younger brother Philip. You got to jail for thirty 46 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: days on a bad check, and you come home and 47 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: two of your children are gone, including your five year 48 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: old little girl and her brother. You find the other 49 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: two children stuck in foster care. I mean, and this 50 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: day and age that would be on every headline on 51 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: every milk cartney in the country. And I don't understand 52 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: how this guy gets away with two children after sticking 53 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: the other two in foster care. Can we just start 54 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: Doctor Jerry Cross and psychologist joining US faculty Saint Leo University, consultant, 55 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: author of operations getting married after one month? Can we 56 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: just start with that? Well, that's an interesting personality right there, 57 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: probably on more like the borderline and just more of 58 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: an impulsive reaction to the lust of the moment. Yeah, 59 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, we see stars do it all the time, 60 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: and everybody calls it a whirl wind of romance. But 61 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: they've got the money to afford an expensive divorce and 62 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: work out all their issues and their property. When the 63 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: rest of us do it, it's not really a good 64 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: idea getting married after thirty one days, I'm knowing someone 65 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: or not knowing them. Doctor Jory helped me out. Yeah, well, 66 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: I've seen it happen in my practice where you know, 67 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 1: I've treated patients on relational issues like that, and you know, 68 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: they met in a bar, you got drinking together, and 69 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: within a couple of weeks they're they're married, and they 70 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: end up in your practice seeking help. That's right, and 71 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: they usually procreate and add to the situation, you know, 72 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: they have children. And that's exactly what happened here. Guys, 73 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: I've got an incredible panel, but I've got to go 74 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: to a guy, an amazing I an FBI investigator. He 75 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: invaded the suspects personal space to solve the riddle of 76 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: the girl in the picture with me right now, Scott 77 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: Law former FBI Special Agent. Scott, this is an amazing 78 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: story and you must be an amazing FBI investigator to 79 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: have cracked this thing. I'm just trying to taste this 80 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: chronologically because it's so it's very confusing. I would have 81 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: to definitely create some type of a flow chart if 82 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: I were arguing this to a jury so they could 83 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: keep looking back. Because everybody has aliases, everybody goes all 84 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:53,559 Speaker 1: different ways across the country. But you cracked the riddle. 85 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: First of all, why is it called the girl in 86 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: the picture picture? There's a photograph widely circulated online of 87 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: Susanna Veakas with a pretty bad haircut sitting in the 88 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: lamp of Franklin Floyd and Dad. Was a photo taken 89 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: for church directory here in Oklahoma City back in the 90 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: mid seventies. Okay, wait, stop right there. Number one, what's 91 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: wrong with a haircut? Because that's the one I had 92 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: growing up, except my hair was not down to my shoulders. 93 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: I like to cut my hair starting at about age two, 94 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: so my banks would always be cut like at the roots. 95 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: Whenever my mom would turn her back, I'd cut my hair, 96 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: and on either side it would be up like this. 97 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: When I did it myself, then my mom tried to 98 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: fix it. So to me, that's a pretty good cut. 99 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 1: It looks like he may have cut her hair in 100 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: this picture. And I bet that's because he didn't want 101 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: anyone that he didn't have to reveal himself to to 102 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: see him with his child. So I was going to 103 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: say the first time I saw this, this looks like 104 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: a church directory photo, because we've had the taken so 105 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: many times since i was a little girl in the 106 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: Methodist church for the church directory. That's exactly what this 107 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 1: looks like. So this is in Oklahoma. It's a photo 108 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: of Franklin Delano Floyd, who kidnapped his little daughter age five, 109 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: forced her to marry him. Okay, so that's why it's 110 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: called the Girl in the picture, Scott. It is. Yes, 111 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:29,239 Speaker 1: that photo was given to a guy brought that photo 112 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: into the FBI because Franklin Floyd, who at the time 113 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: of that photo was known as Trenton Davis, had given 114 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: that photo to a friend of his and Franklin Floyd 115 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: actually tried to recover that photo at a later date 116 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: and the guy told Franklin he didn't have it anymore, 117 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: and the guy actually ended up finding it and bringing 118 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: it to the FBI. In nineteen ninety four, when Michael 119 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: was kidnapped and Michael is Suzanne Saveacus's son. Okay, So 120 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: let's just get this straight. Suzanne Savecas is at She's 121 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: the little girl in the picture. Her mom, Sandy Chipman, 122 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: is the one that, after one month marries Franklin Delano Floyd. Correct. Correct. 123 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: And the brother we're talking about is Susanne's brother. Susanne's brother. 124 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: But he was adopted by a family and raised by 125 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: a family, and I talked to him a few years ago. 126 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: He is alive and well. And there's a whole other 127 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: story about that adoption that involving Sandy Chipman and this 128 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: boy Philip Stephen Christy Missouri joining me Emmy Award winning 129 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: investigative reporter. So, Chrissy, let me understand so we can 130 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: go forward with our names. Correctly. Susanne Savakas is the 131 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: girl in the picture. Her son she later had is 132 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 1: Michael Hughes. Correct, that's correct. Okay. Suzanne's brother that was 133 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: kidnapped along with her, it's Philip, correct. Correct. And you're 134 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: telling me, Scott lab that later Philip was adopted by 135 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: another family, That's correct. And I want to hear what 136 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: happened to him. I want to get to the heart 137 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: of how these two children just disappear, on how this Nan, 138 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: the defendant ends up married to what was then a 139 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: little girl five to six years old when she was kidnapped. 140 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at crime Online. It 141 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: turns out Brandon Williams is an alias used by Franklin 142 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: Delano Floyd. At the time Floyd met Sandy Shipman, he 143 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: had a lengthy rap sheet and was on the run. 144 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: Floyd reportedly abducted and raped a four year old girl 145 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: and robbed a bank. The bank robber, You're earning him 146 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: nine years behind bars. Then Floyd attacked a woman after 147 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: just getting out of jail, and then failed to appear 148 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: in court and disappeared, disappearing with something that Floyd was 149 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: good at. While Shipman was in jail, Floyd disappeared with 150 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: two younger children, Susanne and Philip. Philip was only six 151 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: weeks old and was adopted by Mary and Bob Patterson 152 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: two years ago. Testing confirmed that Phillips was Sandy Shipman's 153 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,479 Speaker 1: son and Susanne Sevaka's brother. As for Susanne, she disappeared 154 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: with Floyd. He changed his name again, Susanne's too. They 155 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 1: are now Borren and Sharon Marshall, father and daughter. Time 156 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, Christy Missourich joining us. Let me 157 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: understand Susanne Sevacas turns in to Sharon Marshall. Right, and 158 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: they have to keep changing their names so they're not 159 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: found out, correct, that's right. They changed their name with 160 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: each changing location as Floyd dreg Susan throughout the United 161 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 1: States to James Shelnan joining me twenty seven years Metro 162 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: major case, former SWAT now lawyer with the Shelna Law firm, 163 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: Oudam Gadsden, James, thank you for being with us. You 164 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 1: know now this would be on every newscast, on every 165 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: milk car and everywhere looking for these two. So how 166 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: is it the two managed to be kidnapped and taken 167 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: away and nobody found them. Well, they say, you know, 168 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: that was a different era at different times, before the Internet. 169 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:37,119 Speaker 1: It was before the age of email electronic communications. You know, nowadays, 170 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: information that we receive about kidnappings is so instantaneous. It's 171 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: automatically on Facebook, get Amber alerts on your phone, you know, 172 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: it's posted over social media. Well, back in those days, 173 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: it was not that way. This is just a much 174 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: different air and time where information was non instantaneous. The 175 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: process was much slower, and it was much easier for 176 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: maniacs like this to get away with this for periods 177 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: of time. Let it sink Anne. While the other children 178 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 1: were eventually found, Franklin Delano Floyd kept Sevacas, the little girl. 179 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: He raised her. I told other people she was his 180 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: bio daughter's biological child. He changed her name to Sharon Marshall, 181 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: spending years pretending she was his daughter before he forced 182 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: her to marry him. I want to circle back Scott 183 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: Love joining me, former FBI special agent. He managed to 184 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: crack the mystery of the girl in the picture. You 185 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: know what I think. I think it had to do 186 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: with the fact that the mother. The mother was deemed 187 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 1: to be no account because she had gone to jail 188 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: on that bad check. So when she's telling everybody he 189 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: left with my children, I don't think anybody listened to her, 190 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: and I don't think anybody cared. So when Sandy Chipman, 191 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: the mother, was released from jail, she discovered that her 192 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: kids were gone, and she found two of them, Alison 193 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: and Amy, at a Baptist children's home in the Dallas area, 194 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: but Suzanne was nowhere to be found. Sandy told me 195 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: when I interviewed her that she went to the Dallas 196 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: Police Department to report her youngest daughter, Suzanne missing. The 197 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: Dallas Police Department told her, there's nothing we can do. 198 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: You're married to this man. It's perfectly fine for her 199 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: for Franklin Floyd to have the child. And then she 200 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: continued looking but never found him. Let me understand, also, 201 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 1: Franklin Delo Floyd aka Brandon Williams aka Trenton Davis aka 202 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: Warren Marshall was not her biological father. That is correct. 203 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: Who's the dad? The dad is Clifford Savacas When I 204 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: interviewed him. He was living in Michigan at the time, 205 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: and he he was when he came back from Vietnam. 206 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: Sandy had moved on, was living with another guy and 207 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: and mister Sabakis. Clifford Sabakis was out of their lives, 208 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: out of Suzanne's life at that point. He tried to 209 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: maintain contact, but ultimately Sandy moved on with her life 210 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: with this new guy and her three kids. I'm trying 211 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: to just get my mind wrapped around, how is she 212 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: five or is she's six? Scott Lobe when she's abducted. 213 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: She at the time she was abducted, she was six 214 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: years old. How a six year old can be taken 215 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: away by stepfather, no biological connection, and the cops actually 216 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: tell the mom, Hey, that's her dad. There's nothing you 217 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: do about it. He's supposed to have her. You're the 218 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: screw up. That's basically what they told her. So let 219 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: me understand this too. Scott Lobe joining me, the guy 220 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: who the case the girl in the picture. Did the 221 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: mom Chipley have any idea she married a guy convicted 222 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: of raping a four year old? No, she didn't. When 223 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: that crank was committed, he was known as Franklin Floyd 224 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: his birth name. When he met Sandy, he was known 225 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: as Brandon Cleo Williams. And that's the only name she's 226 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: ever known for him to have was Brandon Cleo Williams 227 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: until we talked to her and told her the story 228 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: of who he really was, you know. To James shell Nutt, 229 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: a former Metro major case now lawyer, I love nothing more. Well, 230 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: there's a lot of things I love about prosecuting crimes, 231 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: but one of the things I love the most is 232 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: when I, as a prosecutor, got to stand from the 233 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: jury and read the indictment and nothing would make me 234 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: happier than to ring out a string of alias's, So 235 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: in this one it would be Franklin Delano Floyd AKA 236 00:15:53,200 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: also known as Brandon Cleo Williams, also known as Trenton Davis, 237 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: also known as Warren Marcel. Oh. Absolutely think I loved 238 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: it as well. And I will tell you that it 239 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: shows that they're trying to hide from the past of 240 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: what they're done. They're deceitful. Their entire life is a lie. 241 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: And everything they're about to tell you as the jury 242 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: and everything you're about to hear, and everything he's told 243 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: everyone else that he's dealt with and victimized is a lie. 244 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: Also that she used to manipulate and that's what has happened. 245 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: He's manipulated. You know. The doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical 246 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: examiner for the State of Florida. You can find it 247 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: at pathcaremad dot com and he's lecturing University Florida Medical 248 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: School and the founder and host on the International Forensic 249 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: Medicine Death Investigation Conference. Now bet that's a big party, 250 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher. You know what's burning me up right now? 251 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: So many things, But do you know what I would 252 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: put somebody through and they were going to live with 253 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: my children. No, there would be a rap sheet. I'd 254 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: find out about his family. There is no way in 255 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: he double l that some man is going to slink 256 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: in and be around my children. This guy had a 257 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: conviction for raping a four year old, plus a lot 258 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: of other things. But that one just jumped out at me, 259 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 1: and she had no idea. She didn't even know his 260 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: real name. There so many to pick from. Here's my question, 261 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 1: do you, doctor Gallagher, you're the medical examiner. How many 262 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: times have you had to autopsy at the child who 263 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: was killed by the boyfriend to live in the new 264 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: husband the fiancee of mommy? I mean, it's like women 265 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: pick this poc technical legal term over their children. Do 266 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: they need a man that badly? Neither here nor there, 267 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher. My sister in turn for one of our 268 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: congress people, when I guess she was in college, she 269 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: brought home a T shirt. I'll never forget it. A 270 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. 271 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: And I totally when she got tired of it, totally stolen. 272 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: But did you do all that to have a man 273 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: you don't even know his real name? How many times 274 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: have you all talks at a child? Infant to fifteen 275 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: that was killed by mommy's boyfriend. You husband live in 276 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: blah blah. Well, it's amazing. It's been quite a few 277 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: and that's a very very common story. And as a 278 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: matter of fact, if that isn't the story, then I 279 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,959 Speaker 1: question the validity of the narrative. You know, most of 280 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: the stories start out with why do you talk like that? 281 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: Number one? I questioned the validity of a narrative. Why 282 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: don't you just say somebody's lying where Typically that's how 283 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: the story is. It's always it's usually ninety nine percent 284 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: of the time. You know, the the child of the 285 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: mother and then the boyfriend who's not married of the 286 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: mother is involved. You know, so, um, and typically he 287 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: did it well right fob, Well, non fob, non father 288 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 1: of the baby. Um. You know so normally it is 289 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: the boyfriend of the mother, not the father of the child. 290 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: And you know, Chrissie Missouri, you and I've covered it 291 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: a million times. Mommy brings home a POC and he 292 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: kills the baby too many times that we care to relive. 293 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: You know, back to you, Scott lab who is the star, 294 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: the former FBI special agent who actually cracked this case 295 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 1: and you know what, Scott lab I know he has 296 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: committed murder, and I am I really admire what you did. 297 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: He's good for two that we know of. Uh, he's 298 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: strongly suspected in Suzanne's death in Oklahoma City in nineteen 299 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: ninety the little girl that he kidnapped, married, ye raped, 300 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: and then ends up dead. Yes, that little girl. Oh yeah, 301 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 1: he totally killed her. And who's the other? The other 302 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: is the girl named Cheryl Comeisso who was a dancer 303 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: with Suzanne in Tampa, who he murdered, and that's for 304 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: which he sits on death rows for her murder in Florida. 305 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: When you say dancer, do you mean stripper? I did 306 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: mean stripper? Okay, can we just make sure let's just 307 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: call it like it is. I don't care if she's 308 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: a stripper or she's, you know, performing at the met 309 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:37,239 Speaker 1: I don't care she was murdered. Now, I, like you do, 310 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: not like to trash victims. But if it's the truth, 311 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: it's the truth, and it tells me a lot about 312 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: Scott mob I'm not going to bother for dramatic purposes 313 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: to recount all of his aliases. So what I'm understanding is, 314 00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: Mommy after one month, marries Franklin Delano Floyd. She catches 315 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: a bad check charge, she goes to jail, one month, 316 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: comes home. Two of her children are in foster care 317 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: at the Baptist church and two others are missing. One 318 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 1: of them. Ultimately that the baby, the boy, gets adopted 319 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: by a family. And then Suzanne, her little five year 320 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: old girl, is just lost. And here comes a mommy 321 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,479 Speaker 1: with a bad check charge, and she's a stripper, begging 322 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: cops for help, and nobody does a damned thing. Do 323 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: I have the facts now, Scott? Well, the mom Sandy 324 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: was not a stripper. No, no, no, Susanne Suzanne was. Yes, 325 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: Susanne was. She was a stripper in both Tampa, Florida 326 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: and Tulsa, Oklahoma. Gotcha, thank you. So baby Michael, let 327 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: me understand, is put into foster care and later adopted. 328 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: But then when he's in first grade, Franklin Delano Floyd 329 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: walks into his elementary schools a gun and takes him. 330 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: Police search for Floyd and Michael for weeks. He was 331 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: eventually arrested in Louisville, Kentucky, when he tried to get 332 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: any driver's license. What do you mean, Christie, missourk he 333 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: walks into an elementary school and kidnaps the first grader. 334 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: That's right, well, that's part of the whole badness of 335 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: this man. He wanted what he believed was his and 336 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: was going to take any means in order to retrieve 337 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: Michael back again. You got to remember the timeline here. 338 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: There's already the mother's dead, Suzanne's dead, and now he's 339 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: coming back to get Michael. So at gunpoint, he takes 340 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: the child, he forces a member of the school administration 341 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: to take him to Michael's classroom and removes them, and 342 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: then he's on the lamb where he's quickly then caught 343 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: by law enforcement. Now the little girl, the girl in 344 00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: the picture Susanne Sevakas, of course, the fake that changes 345 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: her name to Sharon Marshall. Take a listen to our 346 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: cut three, our friend Dave Mack. Sharon Marshall grew up 347 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: to be a smart, gifted student, earning a full scholarship 348 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: to study aerospace engineering. Before Sharon could attend college, she 349 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: became pregnant. Finally, Slovakas decided to run away with her 350 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: secret boyfriend and take her toddler, Michael, with them. She 351 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: tried but reportedly Franklin Floyd tracked her down and it's 352 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: the boyfriend who witnesses the disappearing act. This time, Floyd 353 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: and Slovakas leave town, moving first to Tampa, then settling 354 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Only this time they were Clarence and 355 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: Tanya Hughes, a married couple. Just a few weeks later, 356 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: Susanne Sevakas aka Tanya Hughes was found on the side 357 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: of an Oklahoma highway with bruises and a head injury. 358 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: While her injuries were suspicious, when Savakas dies, her death 359 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: was assumed to be a hit and run to Scott Law, 360 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: joining us former FBI who cracked the case of the 361 00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: little girl in the picture. Suzanne gets her name changed 362 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: to Sharon Marshall, and despite being kidnapped and married and 363 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: raped by her stepfather, she as she grows up to 364 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,479 Speaker 1: be smart and gifted and gets a full scholarship to 365 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: study aerospace engineering. That's a miracle. It is a miracle. 366 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,959 Speaker 1: You look at the history of her upbringing. When she 367 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:30,360 Speaker 1: was Sharon Marshall, living and going to high school in Georgia, 368 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: the horror that she had to live in with Franklin 369 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: Floyd well documented, and she somehow was still able to 370 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: be a just a brilliant and gifted student who ultimately 371 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: got a full ride to Georgia Tech to study aerospace engineering. 372 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: It's it's incredible to me, which is one of the 373 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: top engineering schools in the world. So when you say 374 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: the horror that she lived with, what do you mean 375 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: by that she was subjected to sexual abuse? Uh Franklin Floyd. 376 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: And during the investigation, we found photographs of Susanne in 377 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: various states of undress that were taken by Franklin Floyd. 378 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: There's the witness statements from some of her friends that 379 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: she was raped by by Franklin Floyd. And she had 380 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: a very Franklin's very controlling would not let her out 381 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: of the house. She had to be back home by 382 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: a certain time to make him dinner, to take care 383 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: of him, and she made excuses for to all her 384 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: friends about why she had to go home and take 385 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: care of Daddy as she called him. So Susanne would 386 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: would when people would try to hate Susanne, let's we're 387 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: gonna go hang out after school, she said, I can't. 388 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 1: I have to go take care of my dad. Being 389 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 1: Franklin and she would always make excuse of for him 390 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: every day, all day. She had no freedoms whatsoever unless 391 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: if he was involved in that freedom. Did she ever 392 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 1: wonder what happened to her mother? Yes, she of the 393 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: some of the people we talked to, some of the witnesses, 394 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: they did say that she had memories of her mom 395 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: that but she quickly changed the subject, didn't want to 396 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: talk about it at all. But it did have memories 397 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: of her mom. And that's about all we know about 398 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 1: what she said about her mom. But in her position, 399 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: she's already gone from state to state to state. She's 400 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: living under another name. I'm sure no one would give 401 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: her information about her mom. So for a child that young, 402 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: who is getting raped probably on a nightly basis by 403 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: her fate dad, how is she going to find mom? 404 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: I mean, that was that was another lifetime ago for her. 405 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: She's all alone in this world. Doctor Jory Crossen, psychologist 406 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: joining US faculty Saint Leo University and author, Doctor Jory 407 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: She's completely isolated, but we often find that in cases 408 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: of child molestation. Yeah, that's like a prisoner of war. Okay, 409 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: She's definitely a captive, you know, looking back on that 410 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: relationship with her mother and with Floyd him being a pedophile, 411 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: he basically groomed and picked out the mother for the children. Okay, Mary, 412 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: and the mother was just giving him access to her. 413 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: You know, we see that so often. Here's a quick 414 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: example that everyone can relate to. Cherish Perrywinkle. The little 415 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: girl who was shopping at I guess Daughter General or 416 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: Family Dollar with mom and the sisters and she is 417 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: approached by a guy that offers to help them out 418 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: with a gift card. They then go to I think 419 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: a Walmart's superstore and he was waiting for his wife 420 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: to show up with a gift card. He takes I 421 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: believe eight or nine year old Cherish to get a 422 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: hamburger in the front. There's actually McDonald's inside the superstore. 423 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: They just keep walking. Police largely discount what the mother 424 00:27:54,680 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: Rain is telling them, and the child is rape, sodomized, triangled, 425 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,959 Speaker 1: then submerged in water under a log until she's found. 426 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: The whole reason the befriended the mom was to get 427 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: to the daughter, and he did. And this guy, Franklin 428 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: Delano Floyd did it as well. Guys, take a listen 429 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: to our friends at crime Online Dot com When Suzanne 430 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: Sevakas Tony Hughes dies, her young son, Michael is taken 431 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: out of Floyd's care by the Department of Human Services 432 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: and placed in a foster home. Floyd is allowed visitation rights, 433 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: but Michael referred to him as that mean man. Floyd 434 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: tried to get custody of the boy for years, but 435 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: DHS orders paternity test which confirmed Floyd has no biological 436 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: connection to the boy. Floyd's parental rights are terminated. Now 437 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: Michael's foster family sets an adoption in motion. Here comes 438 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: another disappearing act. Six year old Michael Hughes is kidnapped 439 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: from his school along with the school principal at gunpoint. 440 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: The administrator is left tied to a tree in the 441 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: nearby woods. Two months later, Floyd is arrested in Kentucky, 442 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: but Michael isn't with him and he has never been found. 443 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: You know, Scott lab former FBI who cracked this case. 444 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: It's really it's heartbreaking, the entire story. I want you 445 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: to take a listen to one more thing Scott before 446 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: I returned to you. Take a listen to Dave Morris 447 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: with the Oklahoma for twenty years infamous kidnapped for Franklin Delano, 448 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: Floyd stuct at variations of the same live aout the 449 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: fate of the six year old boy he took from 450 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: a Talktail elementary school in nineteen ninety four. Michael Anthony 451 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: Hughes had been taken to a safe place, Floyd would say. 452 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: Floyd would also say the boy was his son, despite 453 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: what a blood test showed, and he did what he 454 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: had to do. But from death Row in Florida. In 455 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: September of twenty fourteen, Floyd finally admitted to two FBI 456 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: agents would have been suspected all along, and more from 457 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: Dave Morris. He had killed Michael the same day after 458 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: it became clear his plans to raise the boy while 459 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,959 Speaker 1: a fugitive weren't going to work this time. For Michael's 460 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: foster parents, the revelation provided some closure. Ernest and Merle 461 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: being Phil Michael who sing solos at church is now 462 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: with Jesus. When they came out to the house and 463 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: they told us the situation, and in a way it 464 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: was relief because we knew that he wasn't being hurt 465 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: that and like I said in the letter, that when 466 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: he took his last breath, here on this earth, that 467 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: he was in the arms of Jesus his very next 468 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: breath time stories with Nancy Grace to Scott Loam. He 469 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: cracked the case of the girl in the picture. Could 470 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: you start at the beginning, explained to us Mere Mortals. 471 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: Now you did it. So it started actually the year 472 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: before when I got notified about the case and it 473 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: was assigned to me, and I spent a year reviewing 474 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: the very thick case file that the FBI put together 475 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: at the time of the kidnapping. I watched everything I 476 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: could on YouTube. There were videos of Franklin Floyd addressing 477 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: various committees when he was trying to fight for Michael. 478 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: I listened to every jail call that we had still 479 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: on the old cassette tapes. Thank goodness, the FBI still 480 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: keeps cassette recorders around. And I wanted to know who 481 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: I was dealing with. I want to know everything about him, 482 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: how we treated people is I wanted to just dig 483 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: into who he was. I wanted to know this man 484 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: before I even thought about setting foot on death row 485 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: to go talk to him. And when that time came, 486 00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: that preparation was so key in refuting the lie as 487 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: that Floyd would throw up that he'd thrown up to people, 488 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: to journalists, to other law enforcement officers over the twenty 489 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: years before we talk to him. That worked so well 490 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: for him. He tried those same things with us, But 491 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: because Nate and I were so prepared, we could refute 492 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: anything he said with the facts that we knew from 493 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: the case file and from the investigation that had been 494 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: done before we got involved. And furthermore, when we're in 495 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: the interview room with Floyd, I literally sat in kneed 496 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: a knee with him. And if we call you know, 497 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: it's called proximics, and we want to get into their 498 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: personal space. If Floyd is leaning back, trying to get 499 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: away from me as he's telling a lie, I'm leaning 500 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: forward because I want to maintain that that equidistance between 501 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: him at all times. Now, if he's talking and he's 502 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: somewhat relaxed and we're not really talking about a subject 503 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: he doesn't want to talk about, and he's leaned back relaxed, 504 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: I'll lean back and relax. I mirror his tone, I 505 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:02,239 Speaker 1: mirror his language. And that's ultimately we were able to 506 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: get Floyd to a point where he ran out of 507 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: excuses and we had painted him into a corner with 508 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: his own statements, with his own words, and with a 509 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: timeline from the time he took Michael to the time 510 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: he exited the highway before he got into Texas and 511 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: killed Michael. He Nancy just ran out of excuses. We 512 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: just we were able to corner him that way, based 513 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: on that preparation and based on smart and sound interview 514 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: and interrogation techniques. You know, Scott Lamb, I think that 515 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: it's hard to understand how much prep is required to 516 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: understand the nuances of the facts when you go into 517 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: a situation like yours, because this guy has so many names, 518 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: so many lies, so many agendas going on. We know 519 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: he's martyred at least two people, at least two and 520 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: he'll do it anything. Who would go into an elementary 521 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: school with a gun and kidnap a little boy that's 522 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: not related to you, I'm sure to either rape him 523 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: or live as if he's his biosn just like he 524 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 1: did with Susanne. I mean, nothing good would have come 525 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: of that. Nothing good did come of that. You have 526 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: to arm yourself with every minute fact so when he lies, 527 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: you have an answer. What was his demeanor Franklins. Floyd 528 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: is combative. Most times you talk to him, he just lies. 529 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: That's all he does. He lies, he tries to misdirect, 530 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: he tries to take you down rabbit holes. And there 531 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 1: were times, I will tell you, there were times I 532 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: would let him take me down a rabbit hole because 533 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: I didn't think it was consequential to the line of 534 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: question we were talking about. And Nate, my partner, Nate 535 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: fur he would he would he tell me after in 536 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: the debrief, letting him take you down rabbit holes. And 537 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: I told Nate, I said, listen, he had to have 538 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: a sense of victory every now and then. I don't 539 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: want this guy to shut down. I think we're getting close. 540 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: I needed to let him have those victories every at 541 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,280 Speaker 1: least that sense of victory every now and then. And 542 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 1: Nate agreed, and we allowed him to do that. But 543 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: he because a lot of times when he did that, 544 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: we'd start questioning again on another line that we were 545 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: interested in, and he was less combative, and then he'd 546 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 1: eventually see where we were going and he would he 547 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: would get that combative level back up. But he he's 548 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,879 Speaker 1: just a mean guy. He's nothing's his fault. He's never 549 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: done anything wrong in his life, and that's how he 550 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 1: presents himself to law enforcement at all times. What were 551 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: the circumstances surrounding the murder off Cheryl Kanesso the dancer. 552 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: Cheryl had reported to human Services in Florida that Suzanne 553 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: was dancing and making money. She was mad at Franklin. 554 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: I don't remember the reason why, and Franklin's found out 555 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: that she had reported the additional income, so that cut 556 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: off some of their benefits, and Franklin ultimately murdered her 557 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: for it. Guys, take a listen to our cut seven 558 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: our friends at the Oklahoma It's a tangled story. In 559 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 1: August of twenty fifteen, the FBI issued a press release 560 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: saying a decades old cold case had been solved that 561 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: Floyd had told the investigators what happened to Michael Hughes. 562 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: Floyd had murdered the first grader on the same day 563 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: he kidnapped him. They were driving from Oklahoma City to Dallas. 564 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: The youngster was being a typical six year old out 565 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: of control until Floyd shot him twice in the back 566 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: of the head. Following the FBI's announcement in August of 567 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, the foster parents Earnest to Merle Bean wrote 568 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: a letter expressing their thoughts, but only mailed it a 569 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: few weeks ago to the Oklahoma's Nolan Clay Nolan and 570 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: our ten money sat down with the Beans as they 571 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: shared their emotions. This whole time, I figured that Michael 572 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: was dead, that he killed him early on. I think 573 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: that reference the start, and and it went right along. 574 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: My view was I would rather him be did than 575 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: living somewhere in torment, suffering, wanting to come home. Good jeez, 576 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 1: Scott lab Why did he go to all the effort 577 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: to kidnaped Michael, who is Suzanne's son, the little girl 578 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: in the picture that he kidnapped rape married? Why did 579 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: he kill him? Though Michael was not Franklin Floyd's son, 580 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,839 Speaker 1: He Franklin Floyd and Susanne were married at the time 581 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,720 Speaker 1: and when Michael was born, and he thought of Michael 582 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: as his son, and Nate in the interview room suggested 583 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: to Franklin that Michael was to replace Sharon. He was 584 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: going to be the new or the new Susanne, and 585 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: he wanted to raise Michael the same way he raised Suzanne. 586 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: But he realized that he had a ton of law 587 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,399 Speaker 1: enforce the people breathing down his neck on the day 588 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: of that kidnapping, and he decided in his depraved mind 589 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: to murder Michael on the same day he kidnapped him. 590 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: Where does the case stand it now, Scotlaw. The case 591 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: is closed. The case is closed, although there is I 592 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 1: will tell you there's one question I would love to 593 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: go back and sit down and talk to him about, 594 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,959 Speaker 1: and that is the death of Susanne on the side 595 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: of the road in Okhoma City in nineteen ninety. I 596 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: wanted three questions answered, and the first one was is 597 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: who was Sharon Marshall and we now know it Susanne's 598 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,839 Speaker 1: a bagas And then I want to know how and 599 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,839 Speaker 1: why he killed Michael. And the third one was why 600 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: why did you kill Susanne in nineteen ninety And he 601 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 1: just wouldn't talk about it. And the only thing I 602 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: can think of is he was with her for so long, 603 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy four, seventy five all the way till 604 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: the time he killed her in nineteen ninety that there 605 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: he felt the only thing can think of as he 606 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: saw a connection to her, and that killing her immediately 607 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 1: produced some type of regret for his actions in him. 608 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: I don't know that because he won't talk about it. Well, 609 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: do you have any doubt that he killed her? She's 610 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: found by the side of the road. Do you have 611 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: any doubt that he killed her? No, and let's go 612 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: to doctor Tim Gallagher, our medical examiner out of Florida. 613 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: I mean, she died from a crushing blow to the head. 614 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 1: Can't can't you tell as a medical examiner whether that 615 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: was from a wreck, a hit and run, or from 616 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:36,240 Speaker 1: a blow to the head. It can generally be determined generally, 617 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 1: if you're hit by a car, not only do you 618 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: have head injuries, you know you have rib fractures, you 619 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 1: have leg fractures. You know your back is broken. You 620 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: know all your organs are lacerated in some way their damage. 621 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: You know, a typical single blow to the back of 622 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: the head is usually an assault. You know, someone comes 623 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: up behind you and hit you in the back of 624 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: the head with a large object to baseball back, an 625 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: act something like that. So, yet the medical examiner can 626 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: determine whether you were hit by a car or assaulted 627 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: in a homicidal manner. So this guy who kidnaps a 628 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: six year old girl takes her away from her mother, 629 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: marries her, rapes her, ultimately murders her to leave her 630 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: on the side of the road. Murders her son Michael 631 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: after kidnapping him from first grade. Murders Cheryl Knesso, a stripper. 632 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: He's still alive. He's got three hots and a cot 633 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: on the Florida Death Row. Franklin, Delano, Floyd or whoever 634 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: you really are, wrought in hell. This guy. We would 635 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: never have known the truth without former FBI Special Agent 636 00:40:52,040 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 1: Scott wob Nancy Grace Cronstoice signing off goodbye friend. No