WEBVTT - Ruthie's Table 4: Sian Wyn Owen & Joseph Trivelli 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.960 Welcome to River Cafe table for a production of I 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:11.039 Heart Radio and Adam I Studios. Everybody is interested in process. 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.440 How do actors memorize their lines, how does a car 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:18.439 get designed? And how does an aeroplane stay up in 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.840 the sky. In my case, the question I'm most often 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:27.520 asked is how does a restaurant work. How does the 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:31.120 mozzarella come out the same time as ravioli? How do 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:33.600 you know how many portions of sea bass to order? 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:36.600 What do you do when a chef calls in sick? 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.519 The answers to this questions are simple. It's people, and 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:47.320 two of the most important people for me at the 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:51.519 River Cafe are Sean Manoan and Joseph Travelli, who, between 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.960 them have merely clocked up fifty years of experience in 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.800 this restaurant. Sean, if I were to ask you to 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:02.440 introduce Joseph of Ellie, how would you introduce him? Well, 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.640 Joseph is one of my best friends. I've worked with 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:10.600 him for twenty plus years. And how would you introduce Sean? 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.680 You have to say she's one of your best friends. 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:22.240 Actually say I don't know Sean very well? How dare you? So? 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:27.720 There were cheers Okay, Champagne, this is the first for me. 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:29.760 At the beginning of this interview might be better than 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:31.480 the end, or maybe the end would be better at 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:37.520 the beginning, in terms of process and in terms of 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:43.000 how a restaurant works, how does a menu get written? 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:45.240 Do whatever we can both talk about. I think we have. 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:49.160 What we would encourage chefsidy when we employ them is 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.000 to have a constant dialogue about food. So from the 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.520 minute I get up in the morning, I would cycle 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.920 to work, go straight to the pool, and for that 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.600 half an hour where I'm just swimming my lengths, I 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.880 just think about the menu. I think who's working, what's 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.080 the weather like? It's a scorcher, is it cold? You know? 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:10.320 And no one can interrupt me because I'm just swimming 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:12.480 up and down. So basically I can get the menu 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:16.160 in my head thinking about all those nuances of a 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:21.880 balanced menu, color, obviously seasonality. And I remember once writing 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.040 a menu in in the early days at the River Cafe, 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:26.639 and I remember Ruthie saying to me, every person who 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:28.799 comes to River Cafe is coming for a different reason, 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.800 but there's many people who are coming to celebration. So 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:36.480 one person's working lunch is someone else's wedding, anniversary or birthday, 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.000 and so to write a menu that considers all those things, 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:42.320 it's a real skill because if you're if you're eating 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.760 out seven days a week, you don't want to eat 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:46.799 the same way as if you've saved up to come 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.280 here and this is your big day. So you need 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.720 to write a menu that thinks of all of that. 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:56.960 The fussy eater, the celebratory eater. Do you think about 0:02:57.000 --> 0:02:59.440 it when you're swimming every day? I don't swim every 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:04.160 day anymore. I used to, um, I think about it 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:07.280 cycling in, And when I'm writing the menu, I always 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:09.880 think about Yes, it's the balance on one line of 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:13.680 a dish, you know, like Chilian lemon or whatever, and 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.200 the colors, and then the balance on the menu. And 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.280 then there'll be a soux chef on that shift. He'll 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.120 be working with us, So while we're writing the menu, 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.880 they're manning the kitchen and making sure that the prep 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.040 is done, you know, checking this and that, dealing with 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:29.880 the fish suppliers phoning up and the butcher's phoning and people. 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.079 You know, there's many calls coming in about because we're 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.520 working with the seasonality and we're only cooking what's reflected 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.240 in the market. You know, if there's no scollops, we 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:40.840 won't put them on the menu. It's not like we've 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:42.800 got a three month menu where we have scollops on 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.960 every day. If there's no cavalon ero and the you know, 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.880 everything reflects the market. I always like to call on 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:53.720 my way in or the night before as probably really frustrating, 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.600 but to kind of know what you have. You know 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:58.760 that you have in your head that you have Langston 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.560 but you don't have so you have Sea Best but 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:04.960 you don't have to. You can then start planning, you know. 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:13.200 I think how that goes. I think one of the 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:17.480 things that both of you is that you are incredibly 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.760 patient with new chefs. I do. I think you are. 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.479 I've always tried to if ever I was to tell 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.920 someone off in the kitchen, I would always try and 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.279 make sure that it it was never a personal would only 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:31.560 be like to do with what they've done. I take 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.960 a lot of pride and not being aggressive chef, never 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.800 really raising my voice and people some people want to 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.000 see you behave like that in the kitchen because I 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:42.040 think that's what head chef would do. And I just 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.760 think I refuse to do that that's not her roll 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:47.280 and never do that. Take a lot of pride in it, 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:53.200 and you're a brilliant boss. Just like it's just so 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:58.000 focused on everyone being in the right zone all the time, 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.080 which is so important. Is importan alton as being clean 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.320 and washed down. We always say that, don't we. Being 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.880 in a professional kitchen is I always liken it to 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.320 being on the West End doing two shows a day, 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.200 because you've got two non negotiable deadlines a day where 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.240 you have to be ready and ready to go. And 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.039 so when I opened the door to come down into 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:21.200 the kitchen and I've got my chef's outfit on, and 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.120 I'm always comes straight into my professional persona. So I'm 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.840 like morning morning everyone. Morning. I think of morning to everybody, 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:30.279 and I like boil myself up by my good morning 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:32.760 nous and then to have a feeling of good will 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.799 and that really does perpetuate teamwork and respect for working 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:40.440 environment that I take really really seriously. Also the building 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.159 as well. You know we haven't talked about the building. 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.520 I mean it's just like the room and the kitchen 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.480 being in the room, so it's just got this lovely 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.640 feeling of calm, you know, and after twenty two years 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:53.000 whatever it is of going into it every morning, opened 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.240 the door and just think, oh, this is just you know, 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.880 this is for me, for us at home, but it's 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.280 also just it's impeccable. If I come in the morning, 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:03.560 this is like ever so slightly topical. But if I 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:05.120 come in the morning and someone's left a bottle of 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.400 wine I haven't finished on table one, you know, it 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:15.640 really annoys me because it's just sounds okay. Also, you 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.400 should be able to from the table. Table one is 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.200 right in the kitchen. Table twelve is literally in the kitchen, 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.880 and in theory you should be able to walk into 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.400 the kitchen at any moment. I mean, don't try it 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.280 at home. And there's nothing hidden. Everything is fully on 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:33.240 the show, so there's nothing dodgy going on behind the scenes, 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.200 everything in which the ruthie's a real stickler for, like 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.040 make sure the bin the get rid of that bin. 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.200 And I love it when someone comes into the kitchen 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:43.159 they say show me the kitchen and they just go, 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:47.200 this is it. There's something else like downstairs that this is. 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.120 I'd think I looked after you on your first day 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.920 massively and then we both worked our way up through 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:08.760 the River Cafe kitchen together, so we became friends really 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.320 like that. I remember once being on the cold section 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.800 with Joseph and saying, how much oil do you think 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.320 we will like on this dish? We were, you know, 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.000 we had a comraderie, and then we were on our 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.240 same journey all the way up to the top, to 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:24.640 the point now that I get to basically work with 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:28.080 my best friend, because I hadn't say to chefs, especially 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.280 sometimes I say it when a chef has been fear 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.520 for a while and it's kind of slightly impatient with 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.400 a very very young chef has just started. I said, 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.120 you remember your first day, you know, it's like remembering 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.200 your first kiss. Can you remember your first day here? 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:46.440 Either of you? Oh gosh, absolutely? What was it like? 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:51.880 I was terrifying was I here? So Rose was there. 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:56.120 I remember the whole process of arriving. Wrote a letter 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.720 and gave it to Rose, incredibly nervous when I had 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.120 lunch and she invited me to come the following week 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:05.000 to work. And yeah, you were away that week and 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.840 I was just terrified, to be honest, until you came back. 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.840 And then you made me a cup of tea and 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:14.840 I thought, Okay, I think I can get up with this. 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:16.720 But I was the first week. I was like in 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.640 awe and so scared. I remember leaving and just thinking like, okay, 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.040 I'm okay, I've got through another day. It was literally 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.360 day by day. But I'm sure you know that is 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.720 the same for anyone in a You know, I wanted 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.040 to work here for a couple of years at that point, 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.360 and it just meant so much I could barely cope 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.840 with it. Did you remember yours your first day? I 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:41.160 remember meeting Rose on my first day and she said 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.160 something I always quote still said, I'll teach you to 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:47.920 slice a piece of prisciuto the perfect thickness. I'll teach 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:51.480 you to cook pelotti beans perfectly. I'll teach you the 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:55.800 art of simple cooking. And I remember thinking that sounds easy, 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.319 But actually that is the essence of the river, isn't it. 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:03.600 Simplicity and the understanding of simplicity, which, as I've worked 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.800 with Ruthie over the years, I've never understood it more 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:11.880 than watching you and how you take one thing more away. 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.719 But were you scared? Yeah, definitely, And what was still here? 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.280 It was the fear that you could do something wrong 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.240 if someone would tell you. All For I think maybe 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:25.480 twenty years ago, when I was younger, chef kitchens, even 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:27.560 though the River Cafe wasn't like that, having come through 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:33.199 London kitchens and then being quite hierarchical and aggressive and 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.360 well dominated, I really, you know, to go somewhere as 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.480 Revere River Cafe, the preconception would be more of that. 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:41.880 But as I was going along my journey, I was 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.280 becoming more sure of what I didn't like. So when 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.920 I arrived at the River Cafe and met two women 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.200 that I was like, Wow, this this is like a 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.880 life goal here, you know, and then you could pursue 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:56.280 your own values as we went up the ladder. Are 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:58.240 the things that were really important to us as you 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:02.320 became more of a manager. I suppose absolutely right. This 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:06.960 interesting about how immediate your performances judged in the restaurant. 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:09.600 Chefs the judge as soon as they walk into the kitchen. 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.280 I mean, you can judge a chef by the the 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:15.800 chef's trousers they were even or if they're come in 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:19.319 the jacket that's not clean or tied neatly. And how 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.280 you present yourself before you've even picked up your knife, 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.760 which people are judging you by your knife quietly, even 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.560 though I don't believe in the what your knife says 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:30.800 about you, per say, But a lot of chefs will 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:32.960 just have a little look at someone's knife before they've 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:36.640 even chopped anything. Did you start being so afraid? How 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:42.360 long did it take two years ago or just after 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.559 two years? About two years to settling? What do you 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:47.720 think there was? I think what? Because what the River 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.360 Cafe does. We write the menu every day, twice a 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.240 day for lunch and dinner, and so it's very unique. 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.960 When I worked in for example, Bluebird, I was the 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.520 queen of Mason Plus and we would do and so 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:02.840 when you say about music plus, it means you have 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.839 to have your breath, all your vegetables and stuff done 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.800 for you know, for the like in the River Cafe, 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.160 we have have vegetables done just for lunch, and most 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.600 things we do to order. So if we have parsley, 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.040 we'll chopped parsty to order, and we chopped garlic to order, 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:18.720 and we do everything to orders as fresh as it 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.040 could be. When I worked in Bluebird, I had the 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.360 whole fridge stock for the week. So when I started 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.880 at the River Cafe. I was like, you're mad, how 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.280 can you do everything to order that? This is a 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.560 recipe for disaster. I'm the queen of muse on Plus. 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.160 You know when a new chef comes, when you've interviewed 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:38.360 someone and you know, I used to say, what books 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:42.240 do you read? Michelle Rue used to say, make me 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.839 an omelet? But what do you look for in terms 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.800 of somebody coming for a job here? If we interview 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.079 people together, that we try and put them off because 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:55.120 some people come with they have maybe a law degree 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.120 or they've done a degree in dark medicine. We have 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.600 and we're like, okay, so you know, you have to 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.040 stand up for a living. You know, you have to 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.400 work nights, you have to work weekends. It's shift work. 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:09.880 If you love cooking, you can always cook at home. 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.440 And then if you're really, really, really really really set 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:14.880 on it, then you know, because some people you think, 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:16.920 my god, you could earn the fortune being a lawyer. 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.640 I look for people that I think will fit into 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.079 the team because if someone wants to learn, we can 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:25.880 teach you anyone to cook. But going back, what actually 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.760 made you want to be a chef? I didn't study it, 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.560 but I grew up having long summer holidays in Italy, 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:38.120 and my grandmother started cooking before we got up, and 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:39.920 I slept in a room where the only window was 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.199 to the kitchen. There wasn't a window to the outside, 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:43.960 so I think it was kind of they had to 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:45.960 pass through the kitchen to get through. There was no 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.200 I was actually not you know, there was no outdoor window. 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:51.440 There was just a hatch to the cooker and NONEA 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.000 was impatient for us to wake up so she could 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.000 be with her grandkids. That should open the thing and 0:12:56.320 --> 0:13:00.200 put cups of like sweet coffee and you know, do 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.040 everything to wake us. So that's how it got in me. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.000 But I didn't realize that I could make it into 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.679 a career. I got a job washing up in the 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:12.000 kitchen with a for a guy called Chris, who's a 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:16.120 dear friend, and one day he m burned himself so 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.120 badly had to go to hospital and I was left 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.480 to make Sunday lunch and I just loved it. And 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.000 I think that's when I thought, Okay, I could I 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.160 could really enjoy this, and what about you. My mom 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.080 was a really brilliant cook, and really in the eighties 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.080 she was a sort of Robert Carrier generation, and I 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.720 aspired to where she was coming from. Probably you know 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:40.360 that French influence. And my parents were real um, you know, 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.920 the gastronomic in the seventies eighties, and I was fortunate 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.480 enough to travel and eat well. And then as I 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.840 became older, I read cookbooks like literally, like there were novels. 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:52.800 I don't haven't read the classics, but I've read the 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:58.960 classics and cookbooks, and then I well, I probably, I mean, 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.800 I've read my Italian repertoire, but the ones that really 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:03.679 got me into cooking when I was young, I loved 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.440 reading the French ones. I loved the Rue Brothers. But 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:10.719 you know, Sophie Griggson, But did you read Richard only 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.120 or not? I didn't have more America Elizabeth David or 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.400 not much Elizabeth David. Yeah. I wanted to be a chef, 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.080 but my parents would not entertain the idea. And obviously 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:22.840 I was being such a good person. I just did 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.800 what they said. So I went off to university and 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.960 then I became a chef after I had graduated, much 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.320 against everyone else's you know, what they thought was a 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.600 good idea, and just work my way up from the bottom. 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:39.360 Then aged twenty two, I started, did you Yeah, and 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:44.040 you had to overcome your parents disapproval took a while, 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.280 and then your father, I know it was so fiercely 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.640 proud of being a chef. He was yeah, yeah, he 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:55.880 definitely was a chef, but also a chef who took 0:14:55.880 --> 0:15:14.040 the River Cafe and moved it forward. So you know, 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.080 we've talked about both of you being interviewed by Rose 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.840 or in all of her in love with her, as 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.560 you know we were. People often ask me, they say, 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:27.360 how did the River Cafe survive a fire? What would 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:31.520 happen if two of your great Shana Joseph left, What 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.560 would happen if you had something happened, and how would 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.760 you get through it? And I say, well, the worst 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.480 thing that ever could have happened, the most imaginable thing 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.360 that could have ever happened. I'm gonna start to cry. 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:48.120 It was Rose dying, that Rose left us, and if 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:52.240 we could get through that, then we could almost do anything, 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.360 because it was a lot, and she was not only 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.640 she don't really died, but she was sick and we 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.960 went through different stages of that illness. And we don't 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.840 have to focus on her death. Can focus on her life. 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.040 What was she like? When I think about Rose, I 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.680 think about was she was? Really she was very different 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:12.960 to you in many ways, wasn't she like you know, 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.040 of course this is probably the secret of a good 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:19.360 working relationship. But she was an avid gardener, wasn't she. 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.680 The garden was something she was very the vegetable garden. 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.760 She had encyclopedic knowledge of plants, which was you know, 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.480 she encouraged us to think about the River Cafe Garden 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.760 with only having an edible for every single plant in 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.280 the River Cafe gardens edible and she was very proud 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:38.680 of that. The other thing I think of when I 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.280 think of Roses is vin Italy. How I was lucky 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.280 enough to go to Vinitaly with her. Like soin Italy 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.960 is a big wine tasting where you go for a 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:48.920 I mean, you could go for a week, you may 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.920 never come back. Probably goes two days is perfect. And 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.360 we'd go and we try I don't know, fifties wines 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.120 and they maybe maybe that's the exaggeration, but a lot 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.920 of wine, and towards the afternoon, Roses get a little 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.639 bit like, you know, the pallett is starting to fade. 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.439 Let's go into Verona and getting a pair of TiVo 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:11.920 and sit in the square and watch the world go by, 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:14.520 and and go, let's go and eat a cake here, 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:19.280 and and that appetite for for that sort of hedonistic cheffing, 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:23.439 which was you know, really fun as well. That's that's 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:25.720 why I would remember her. What do you think about 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:30.480 when you think about Rose. I've got no idea what 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.040 kind of chef i'd be without Rose, what kind of 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:36.800 cook cook i'd be even home, let alone in a restaurant. 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.480 I don't even know where to start, you know. As fortunate, 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:42.280 I had an Italian grandmother who also taught me a 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.000 lot of things. But I came to the River Cafe, 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.840 Rose taught me, retaught me how to make tomatoes. Source 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.560 just feel very lucky to have sat literally holding on 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.240 their april drings, probably being a bit annoying and trying 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:57.280 to take it in. And I suppose a part of 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.639 it as well, particularly in the early days, was trying 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.400 to please her, impress her. You know, I think loads 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:04.239 of people say this, it's so true. It's just like 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.000 three nice words from Rose could like get you through 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.800 half a year, and so looking for that an awful 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:14.879 lot and just enjoying it so much being here cooking 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.080 with you and her people away say, oh, you give 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.680 up so much being a chef, especially your twenties. What 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.879 you can't come to the concert on Saturday night? You know, 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:25.959 I wouldn't, didn't want to be anywhere else. I mean, 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.439 you're kidding me. I remember one time we had a 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.760 huge lunch in Tuscany and then we drove to Pierre 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.040 Monte and we went out to dinner and there was 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:39.800 I remember there was again a grand dinner, and I said, 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.880 next year. I remember when the fifth course came out, 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:49.640 I just started to cry, literally started, I can't take this, Moore, 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.200 It's too much. And she was just you know, there 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.160 she was, come on Roger's, Rogerina. She used to call 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:58.480 me next time. There were so many She was very 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.840 much her own person, I think in terms of what 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:05.040 she chose to do, and fiercely loyal, fiercely proud. I 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:06.520 was saying, you know, we used to get into a 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.000 taxi in Paddington in the early early days and she 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:12.399 just said to the driver river Cafe, and I used today, 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.960 I hope this guy knows where the River Cafe days 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.720 going to be rude, and she was really just such 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:23.119 a character. So actually speaking of changes we've made and 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:27.040 the way we've grown, we did grow and the beginning 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.960 of lockdown, and I was wondering if you might like 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.080 to tell the story of how we reacted to a 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:35.320 closure which we didn't know it would be for weeks 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:39.040 or for months, and what is the story of Shop 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:43.520 the River Cafe. Well, we start we were all in 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:48.120 different places working remotely. Sean was stuck in Wales which 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:50.960 she couldn't leave. You were at yours, I was at 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:54.439 my house, and then we had a fridge full of 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:58.600 cheese and other things that I had to come in 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:02.720 and look after the from anything else. So we started 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.679 to see if we could sell them. We had a 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.399 lot of food that we were left with. It was 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:11.600 just criminal to see it, just you know, we couldn't 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.240 waste it, and we tried to. There was some amount 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.200 that you can we can give stuff to charity away, 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.359 but there's some sort of strict rules about what you 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.639 can and can't give and fresh food, and so because 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:24.000 we had no idea how long it was going to 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.680 go on for, so we kind of did some entrepreneurial 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.640 ideas to sort of empty the kitchen and then after 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.399 we've done that, Ruthie, who's like a voracious appetite for 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:37.840 never resting, was like, okay, right now we've got rid 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:39.280 of that, but hang on, what we're going to do 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:42.600 with ourselves. Yeah. I think what happened is that we 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.720 sat here in the private dining room and we thought 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:47.440 we're going to have to close this restaurant. We don't 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.040 know how long for. But we did have all these 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:54.240 ingredients and pastas and everything, and so that's what we thought. 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:56.320 We could sell the olive oil, we can sell the pasta, 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:59.600 and we would have an online business where we could 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:01.919 never the way we could sell it. And then I 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.640 think I think I made tomato sauce. There's a photograph 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.879 of me with seven jars of tomato. And then you 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:11.760 said that you thought, Joseph, that pesto would be possibility. 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.800 So I think we had tomato sauce and pesto, and 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:19.560 then and then we just added bit by bit, didn't we. 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:22.040 And then as it we realized it was as as 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:25.680 everyone in Lockdown was so keen to have something from 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.680 a restaurant. I think that was, you know, we were busy, 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:31.919 starting to become busier, but it culminated I think on 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:37.280 Mother's Day of the first the second one at one 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.800 of the lockdowns where we had so many orders that 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.960 we had to prep a thousand artichokes and we had 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:46.600 the boxes came in the floor to ceiling and it 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:48.760 took a whole day to prepare them. Because everything we 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:50.679