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Speaker 1: Welcome to Trillions. I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric call

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Speaker 1: tunis Eric Happy. Um. I have a new year's resolution,

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Speaker 1: which is to make more money than than uh last year,

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Speaker 1: and I would like some investing advice and I'm hoping

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Speaker 1: that you and your team of analysts that Bloomberg Intelligence

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Speaker 1: can help me out. Is that is that kosher? Can

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Speaker 1: we can we do that? Yeah? I mean I actually

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Speaker 1: thought your resolution was gonna be to clean your closet. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, we we've been for those not in the know,

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Speaker 1: I've been recording in my closet for many, many many

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Speaker 1: episodes of Trillions. It's actually my wife's closet. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: here we are to answer your question though. Yes. Um.

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Speaker 1: So every year we write all these outlooks and it's

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Speaker 1: all very you know, sell side research ish. But one

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Speaker 1: thing we do that's a little buzzfeedish is a listical

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Speaker 1: twenty two et s for and sometimes we do retail

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Speaker 1: conferences and the doing yourself retail investors. They don't really

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Speaker 1: care that much about like how much is going from

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Speaker 1: advisors to brokers and some of that, like more trendy stuff.

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Speaker 1: They were just they want tickers. They they want to

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Speaker 1: learn e t s through tickers. They want genuine ideas

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Speaker 1: of of interesting new innovative products and whatnot. So we

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Speaker 1: did this because of that. And we don't necessarily these

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Speaker 1: ATMs are gonna go up. We're down. We don't make

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Speaker 1: any advice, but these are e t f s that

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Speaker 1: we just can't get off our mind. They're ones that

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Speaker 1: have really just stuck into our brain and we feel

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Speaker 1: like tap into bigger themes that we're watching as well,

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Speaker 1: and so we do it every year. And so we

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Speaker 1: have um, you know, Ethanacios, James and Rebecca on our

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Speaker 1: team who all contributed some of the e t s

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Speaker 1: of the twenty two So joining us on this epposite

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Speaker 1: of trillions, James Staffert, Athan Nacios, Seraphagus, and Rebecca Sin

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Speaker 1: from Hong Kong. We're going to patch in so that

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Speaker 1: she can contribute despite being at a different time zone

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Speaker 1: from the rest of us recording. And we're gonna hear

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Speaker 1: about some investing ideas for the next year. And don't

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Speaker 1: take this as investment advice. They're just ideas that hopefully

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Speaker 1: that the way we're phrasing ConTroll is ets to watch, okay,

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Speaker 1: watch sign off compliance, check that box. Okay, thanks for that.

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Speaker 1: I also want to confess that we had some technical

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Speaker 1: difficulties with my mike, so what follows may sound a

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Speaker 1: little differently than I usually sound. Sorry about that this

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Speaker 1: time on Trillions twenty two e t F s Athanasios,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna call you by your non Greek name from

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Speaker 1: now on, which is Tom. That sounds good, and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna start with you give me your picks. How am

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Speaker 1: I going to make money in t F picks? Go?

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Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna come in hot with this first one.

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Speaker 1: It's probably the biggest story of last year. Cathy would

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Speaker 1: right an ARCS fund, but I'm going on the opposite

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Speaker 1: side with the Shore arc fund. So it's s A

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Speaker 1: r K, which is the Tunnel Capital Short Innovation e

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Speaker 1: t F. I get it launching inverse. ETF is hard.

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Speaker 1: Markets tend to go up over time. I like this one.

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Speaker 1: It's got a lot of attention, very very quickly. Kathy

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Speaker 1: has a lot of haters out there. If you look

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Speaker 1: at performance it just launched, then I think, like November,

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Speaker 1: it's up already. Historically, that's one of the best performing

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Speaker 1: ets out of the gate. It's already got some volume

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Speaker 1: I'm calling this one like a mini s q q Q.

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Speaker 1: I think there's gonna be a good enough ecosystem around

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Speaker 1: it that I think this product will be around for

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Speaker 1: a while. Okay, so for that to succeed, Kathy has

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Speaker 1: to fail right at the highest level. Yes, but if

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Speaker 1: you look at something like s q q Q, right, so,

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Speaker 1: over time markets go up. But I was actually pretty

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Speaker 1: interested to see that even with the queues going up

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Speaker 1: so much, the assets and sqq have been going up.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, if Cathy's fund does well, just over time

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Speaker 1: is gonna be going down. But the way her fund

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Speaker 1: has actually been forming pretty recently, Uh, this has been

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Speaker 1: doing really good. Like I said, the funds up launched,

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Speaker 1: and not even the performance. I think if you can

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Speaker 1: build a pretty strong trading ecosystem, I think this is

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Speaker 1: what's going to keep this product alive. It's even just

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Speaker 1: as much as the performance. And just remember s q

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Speaker 1: q Q is obviously short the cues, and I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people look at SPY is sort of

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Speaker 1: like the market. The cues is sort of like innovative tech,

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Speaker 1: and then Cathy is like nonprofitable tech like stuff that

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Speaker 1: hopefully we'll pay off weight on the road, and now

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Speaker 1: she's actually creating her own little qui ish world. So

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Speaker 1: I think this is actually a compliment or good for her.

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Speaker 1: It'll because when this thing gets money, it's got to

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Speaker 1: buy a r k K. So it's all kind of

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Speaker 1: integrated into the Kathy ecosystem. So I think the liquid

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Speaker 1: it is good. But I agree Tom, this is one

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Speaker 1: that will probably have nice little spurts when ARC is

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Speaker 1: sold off. Okay, next, Okay, this one sounds boring, but

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Speaker 1: I think it's actually indicative of a much bigger thing.

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Speaker 1: B KLC, which is the Bank of New York melon

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Speaker 1: US Large Camp Cory TF, which is just basically um

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Speaker 1: like a generic type of the SMP or one of

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Speaker 1: those like generic large cap broad uh E T S.

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Speaker 1: Why this one is different. It's free, has a zero

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Speaker 1: expense ratio, right, so who who's not going to want

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Speaker 1: a free E T F. I actually taking this pick

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Speaker 1: as a product that I think is not going to

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Speaker 1: raise that much money even though it's free, because when

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Speaker 1: we look at what it's up against, right signed just

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Speaker 1: Trump Vanguard, I get it. Being cheap is a good lane.

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Speaker 1: You want to be in it. It's traducing work. Vanguard

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Speaker 1: already owns that space. And if you look at what

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Speaker 1: v O O can even do with tracking and total

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Speaker 1: cost of ownership, you already getting the O for free.

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Speaker 1: So I don't I think crying that money out of

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Speaker 1: the O O is gonna be really really hard for

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Speaker 1: this product. So I actually think that this is a

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Speaker 1: case that even if it's free, it's not going to

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Speaker 1: raise any money. Well, I will say it has four

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Speaker 1: fifty million. That's probably a lot of B y O A,

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Speaker 1: which is money coming in through their clients. But you

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Speaker 1: know this is the idea. Bank of New York is

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Speaker 1: a big custodian. They have a lot of they serve

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Speaker 1: a lot of advisors. They can say, hey, look what

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Speaker 1: by the ACME brand instead of Vanguard, it's three basis

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Speaker 1: points cheaper and obviously maybe a coupe people are doing

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Speaker 1: that next. All right, So Eric said, I can pick

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Speaker 1: one European one and it doesn't have use. It's in

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Speaker 1: the name, so it's fine. Uh, But I love this ticker.

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Speaker 1: It's a CEO two uh. And this is the spark

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Speaker 1: change physical carbon uh etc. And so carbons that been

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Speaker 1: a really hot item. So what this does is advised

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Speaker 1: carbon allowances. So I don't know if people know how

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Speaker 1: those work. It's essentially like a permit that people could

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Speaker 1: that companies can use to pollute. Right, So as companies

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Speaker 1: want to buy these up, this e t F actually

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Speaker 1: has two benefits. One, it's just going to track the

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Speaker 1: price of these carbon credits right as they go up

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Speaker 1: and then the demand they're gonna they're gonna track that price.

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Speaker 1: But what's so different about this product compared to any

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Speaker 1: other et F out there that that's tracking carbon credits.

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Speaker 1: It actually owns the credits. So this is almost like

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Speaker 1: a hoarder in a way, and that it's buying the

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Speaker 1: credit ETFs taking it off the market so companies can't

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Speaker 1: use them. It's actually taking the supply out of the market.

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Speaker 1: So it's basically saying that even if companies wanted to

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Speaker 1: buy these credits to the loot, they can't because we're

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Speaker 1: buying up all the supply. And then that also will

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Speaker 1: probably end up could potentially also end up moving the

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Speaker 1: price a little bit higher as well, just because you're

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Speaker 1: limiting it. So so they're actually like a market maker

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Speaker 1: because they're able to take onto their books an asset

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Speaker 1: that companies are are trying to get. Yeah, exactly. If

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Speaker 1: you look at some of the other carbon ones that

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Speaker 1: have done well, they're all just tracking futures, so parallels

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Speaker 1: what's happening with bitcoin futures versus physical They're actually owning

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Speaker 1: the credit, so even if you wanted to buy them,

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Speaker 1: they're hoarding them. So I think it's a really interesting strategy.

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Speaker 1: It's the first of its kind, um and I like

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Speaker 1: I like the physically back aspect compared to some of

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Speaker 1: the other things anything. Yeah, they've actually done quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: They're over a hundred million, uh and only a couple

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Speaker 1: of months, and that's in Europe, so that's actually really

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Speaker 1: impressively in the context of that market. It's really really good.

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Speaker 1: It's a very very strong that makes up for your

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Speaker 1: previous pick, which was a little boring. Let's see what

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Speaker 1: you got for number or alright, this one's boring too,

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Speaker 1: but it's uh. It's sp I B, which is a

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Speaker 1: Spider portfolio intermediate term corporate bond ETF. They cut their

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Speaker 1: fee on this, so they vanguarded vanguarded, and Vanguard ended

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Speaker 1: up cutting the fee. But what I think this is

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Speaker 1: so important is if you look at the fixed income

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Speaker 1: et F market, it's all black Rock and Vanguard. They're

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Speaker 1: they're like eighty percent of the assets. State Street really

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Speaker 1: missed an opportunity here, and they were one of the original,

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Speaker 1: you know, ones that could launch fixed income ets. I

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Speaker 1: think they're gonna put a lot of effort into their

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Speaker 1: fixed income line up with fee reductions, maybe launching more products.

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Speaker 1: I just think this is the way that they're And

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Speaker 1: if you look at what's happening the rest of their business,

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Speaker 1: you know they're losing share too. I shares in Vanguard,

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Speaker 1: So I actually think they're gonna really try to make

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Speaker 1: it up on the fixed income side. So I'd be

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Speaker 1: looking for some really really aggressive moves for State Street

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Speaker 1: in their fixed income space. And I'm just picking this

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Speaker 1: et F as a proxy just because they were so

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Speaker 1: aggressive with some of the recent feet cuts. All Right,

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Speaker 1: I'm still bored. Giving some fireworks to end, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: think this is a pretty nice picker. It's MVPs, which

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Speaker 1: is the amplified thematical Austar e t F. Now how

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Speaker 1: we were talking about KATHY before. Just thematic ets in

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Speaker 1: general have gotten so so large. It's like one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest categories now sector wise. But the space has

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Speaker 1: gotten so big that when you say, hey, okay, I

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Speaker 1: want to buy an autonomous vehicle et F for CYBERSECURITYF

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Speaker 1: there's so much out there that actually the performance dispersion

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Speaker 1: is pretty wide. You can have a very different experience

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Speaker 1: than someone else with bought a different product. So what

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Speaker 1: this tries to do is cut through the middle of that, saying, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's all these different thematic products, but where's that one

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Speaker 1: point where they all meet, where the highest conviction thematic

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Speaker 1: picks of all these e t s And the category

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Speaker 1: is so big that this actually matters. So I think

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Speaker 1: over time, not only is this gonna so it's recally

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Speaker 1: sited down the middle, I actually think it's gonna do

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Speaker 1: better than the average because it's not just you know,

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Speaker 1: it's trying to be sort of a diversified thematic thing,

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Speaker 1: but the fact that it's choosing the highest conviction names,

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Speaker 1: I think it's actually a little bit better than average.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's just I like this product because

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Speaker 1: it cuts through all that thematic performance dispersion, which is

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Speaker 1: in its only forty nine basis points, it's pretty concentrated. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I think those are it's a good you know, good

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Speaker 1: price points. I'm gonna be honest and say that the

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Speaker 1: ticker was better than your explanation. But you know that's

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Speaker 1: just the brutal reality of it, and you know, don't

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Speaker 1: don't don't don't read into it too much, you know,

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Speaker 1: I would I would add like to throw in some

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Speaker 1: of the stats that that Athan or Tom mentioned. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they have a hundred James is gonna bail you out?

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Speaker 1: James is gon no. I I love this pick from

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Speaker 1: tom um. The sector if you can consider thematic ets

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Speaker 1: a sector like Tom mentioned there, it's the second largest

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Speaker 1: sector of e t s. There's a hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: one billion assets and these types of etf SO and

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Speaker 1: there's we have a ton of different categories in the dashboard,

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Speaker 1: and it's continually growing. It's one of the fast growing

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Speaker 1: enitors of the market. So I'm definitely gonna be watching

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Speaker 1: m vps as well. I believe this one also has

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Speaker 1: the most overlap with arc right, didn't um what's his name, Mike,

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Speaker 1: I can show that. So for Texas Harvesting, Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: I'm looking Tesla Navidio um Block, these are cathy stocks Shopify.

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Speaker 1: I really like products that try to cut through the noise.

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Speaker 1: Where do we all agree where do all these products

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Speaker 1: agree and I think there's some benefit there and just

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Speaker 1: finding these really high conviction picks. Rebecca Hong Kong Holcong

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Speaker 1: is doing well. Happy New Year, Happy New Year to YouTube. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I want to hear your picks. Which one are you

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Speaker 1: most excited about? Let's start with that one. The one

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Speaker 1: I'm probably most excited about is electric vehicle. And the

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Speaker 1: reason why I chose electric vehicle is that there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of growth in this sector, especially in China.

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Speaker 1: So within the electrical vehicle in China, we've seen some

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Speaker 1: of the ets return more than and one of the

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Speaker 1: main reasons for China's growth is that they're starting from

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Speaker 1: a much lower base. So Chinese electric vehicles posted greater

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Speaker 1: returns than they did in the US. So, for instance,

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Speaker 1: if we look at some stats like their new energy vehicle,

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Speaker 1: it contributed to of the return. Looking at one year earlier,

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Speaker 1: the return was only eight percent. And so the Chinese

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Speaker 1: market has a lot more growth potential. And with a

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Speaker 1: chip shortage easing and everyone looking for driverless cars and

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Speaker 1: not autonomous technology and robotics as well as E s G.

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Speaker 1: Favorite themes, I believe that electric vehicles will do really well,

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Speaker 1: and the one that I picked is global X Autonomous

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Speaker 1: Electric Vehicle Drive US, which captures this segment at only

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Speaker 1: sixty five basis points. So the ticker is drive. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's an amazing ticker. Eric, how come we've never talked

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Speaker 1: about that one before? We might have brought it up.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's a couple electric vehicle e t F

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Speaker 1: s out there. UM, I know, I did it once

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Speaker 1: on our e t F battles with Rondo Legy and

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Speaker 1: I get asked a lot about electric vehicle ets. It's

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Speaker 1: one of the most pop That and Bitcoin are the

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Speaker 1: probably the two most questions I get for like regular people. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think people have seen non Tesla car companies get

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Speaker 1: into electric vehicles and they're like, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: it's going to take over. They can see Tesla a

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Speaker 1: little electric pumps showing up at the wah wah or

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Speaker 1: the seven eleven or whatever, and they're like, this is

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Speaker 1: really happening. So I agreat. I think this is a

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Speaker 1: big theme. I think some of these stocks though you

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Speaker 1: probably find other funds, but for the most part, I

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Speaker 1: think this is exactly why theme ets were invented. Electric

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Speaker 1: vehicles is definitely has a bright future. Okay, Number two.

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Speaker 1: Number two is metaverse. Everyone's heard of metaverse. But one

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Speaker 1: of the things that's interesting is that the metaverse ets

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Speaker 1: actually started a lot longer before Facebook rebranded to meta

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Speaker 1: and so I may have predicted that the metaverse e

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Speaker 1: t F universe may reach eight billion by four which

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Speaker 1: might be a little bit aggressive, but we've had a

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Speaker 1: lot of progress since that. And so even in Asia,

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Speaker 1: in Korea, we had four metaverse ets launch on the

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Speaker 1: exact same day, and two of the e t F

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Speaker 1: Sampson and Maria, managed to reach more than one hundred

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Speaker 1: million in only six days, which is very quick for

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Speaker 1: reaching a hundred million. And so the metaverse et F

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Speaker 1: has surpassed more than two point three billion in December,

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Speaker 1: and so I think that there's a lot of growth opportunity,

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Speaker 1: and I know a lot of other regions, for instance,

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Speaker 1: in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, they're looking to launch metaverse

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Speaker 1: e t s as well this year. So the US

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Speaker 1: is leading the race at more than one point four

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Speaker 1: billion in assets under management round Hill Balls Metaverse et

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Speaker 1: F meta US leads the pack in terms of having

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Speaker 1: the largest assets under management, but there are other ETFs

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Speaker 1: that are going to join and I see that a

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Speaker 1: lot more et fish where is jumping in on the

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Speaker 1: bandwagon for metaverse products? Okay, and of course if you

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Speaker 1: want to learn more about this metaverse space, we did

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Speaker 1: a great episode with Rebecca and Matt Ball, who is

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Speaker 1: the brain behind the Meta e t F. So you

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Speaker 1: can check that out. That was just a couple of

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Speaker 1: months ago. Uh yeah, I mean if one thing on

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Speaker 1: Meta in the U s here that E t F.

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Speaker 1: There was a four hundred and fifty ish launches last

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Speaker 1: year of natural organic flows. That was the third most

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Speaker 1: successful of all four fifty. That's a big feat. And honestly,

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Speaker 1: they got a huge break when Facebook changed their name

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Speaker 1: to Meta. That's when that was like a catalyst moment

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Speaker 1: because I think they maybe might have had like sixty

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Speaker 1: million now they have almost a billion. Sometimes it's good

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Speaker 1: to be lucky, but they, you know what, they were

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Speaker 1: ahead of the curve and that's important. You gotta be out,

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Speaker 1: you gotta be in it to win it. Chill, we'll

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Speaker 1: see if it wins it, but definitely have a lot

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Speaker 1: of investor enthusiasm. Okay, what's next, Rebecca. The next one

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Speaker 1: is cathy Woods flagship Arc innovation. A r K k

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Speaker 1: U S can't talk about e t S without talking

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Speaker 1: about this one the number one performing fund in but

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Speaker 1: then it didn't do so well in one in, so

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Speaker 1: I believe there's a lot of growth potential for it in. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: this fund tracks five areas within the technology sector, which

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Speaker 1: includes DNA sequencing, robotics, energy storage, artificial intelligence, and blockchain technology.

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Speaker 1: I believe that as the world becomes more dependent on technology,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of growth opportunity for this. So look,

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Speaker 1: ARC has come down to earth a bit um, you know,

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Speaker 1: down since February. It had to happen. It was up

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Speaker 1: too much. I think everybody saw it was like, how

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Speaker 1: on Earth could have fund returned this much in a

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Speaker 1: year um, and I think over five years though it's

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Speaker 1: still an annualized return of like I mean, that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of people came in at the high,

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Speaker 1: so some people are underwater. It's ongoing controversy, but the

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Speaker 1: fact is not a lot of people left the fund,

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Speaker 1: and I think the reason for that is again, they

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Speaker 1: have cheap beta. They've got all the serious investor fundamentally

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Speaker 1: sound stocks covered in their cheap beta. Part of their portfolio,

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Speaker 1: so they already own all that stuff, because that's what

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Speaker 1: people ding Cathew on their Oh you you own all

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Speaker 1: these nonprofitable crazy stocks. But most people are like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a feature, not a bug, because I already owned

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Speaker 1: the fundamental stuff. I want Kathy for that potential huge payoff,

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Speaker 1: the dreamers kind of stocks and you know that asymmetric

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Speaker 1: return potentially, and I think they buy into her five

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Speaker 1: year a plan. I mean she's basically said this is

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Speaker 1: going to take a little while, and um, I think

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Speaker 1: you know, her personality is also a big part of it.

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Speaker 1: So it's really interesting that people haven't left, and I

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Speaker 1: think Cathy would and ARC will be around for a

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Speaker 1: long time. If you cannot see outflows after draw down,

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Speaker 1: that is a really really good sign. Okay, Rebecca, last pick,

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Speaker 1: your last pick. My last pick is going to have

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Speaker 1: to be China focused. Since I am based in Hong Kong.

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Speaker 1: China has had lots of difficulties in but I believe

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Speaker 1: that there are pockets of growth in China in despite

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Speaker 1: Beijing's regulatory crackdown straight to US relations, there are opportunities

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Speaker 1: of growth and some of these include clean energy, electric vehicles, tech, healthcare,

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Speaker 1: and China A shares. I'd say specifically where there's maybe

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Speaker 1: the most opportunity would be within China tech and the

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Speaker 1: reason for this is because it's been massively hit in

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Speaker 1: hit more than fifty due to Beijing's regulatory crackdown, and

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Speaker 1: the one I picked is Crane Shares CSI. China Internet

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Speaker 1: k WEB. What's most interesting about k web is that

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Speaker 1: despite the drop of more than fift they managed to

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Speaker 1: get four billion dollars worth of inflows, and so more

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Speaker 1: than of the assets under management came in as the

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Speaker 1: fund was dropping, and so there's a lot, ultimately a

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Speaker 1: lot of people looking to invest into China technology and

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Speaker 1: this is a great et f for that, and the

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Speaker 1: thesis here being that it won't get worse. We believe

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Speaker 1: that China's technology sector has already been hit a lot

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Speaker 1: and that there will be a rebound in at what

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Speaker 1: time It's to be determined. Ultimately, it is very dependent

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Speaker 1: on the government. But there is still a lot of

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Speaker 1: growth opportunity within the China sector and so I think

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Speaker 1: that it will rebound. Yeah. And actually, Rebecca, I think

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Speaker 1: the flows into k web are actually even a little

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Speaker 1: more by the end of the year. I think they

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Speaker 1: were like seven point five billion. That the spread between

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Speaker 1: negative and plus seven billion. That that's an insane spread

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Speaker 1: between performance and flows. Um as um Athanasio has put it,

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Speaker 1: it's in the buy the dip hall of fame for sure.

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Speaker 1: At some point these people will be rewarded. But also

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Speaker 1: there's not many dips to buy anymore. I mean, everything's

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Speaker 1: up all the time. It's like a utopia out there.

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Speaker 1: Um and this was a huge dip for people to

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Speaker 1: buy into. I can't believe k web is the biggest

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Speaker 1: China et F in the US. It's past m SHI

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Speaker 1: and FX and all these like broader based ones that

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Speaker 1: you think would be way bigger. It's like it's like

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Speaker 1: having an awful draw out was like the best thing

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Speaker 1: that ever happened to it, I think within the China

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Speaker 1: sector also though, there are so many Chinese ETFs that

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Speaker 1: people often don't know which one to invest into, and

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Speaker 1: so Crane Shares has done a well done, really good

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Speaker 1: job at providing a niche exposure to the Chinese markets.

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Speaker 1: And if you look at the Cream Shares product offer,

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Speaker 1: they have everything from electric vehicles to clean energy to healthcare,

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Speaker 1: as well as China A shares, which are really the

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Speaker 1: large segments, and so there's no other ETF issue in

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Speaker 1: the US that covers the China market as well as

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Speaker 1: cream shares ANTI and to this point about being the

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Speaker 1: hot sauce on top of cheap beta. If a lot

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Speaker 1: of people are own an Emerging markets et F like

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Speaker 1: i MG um, you have China covered to a large extent.

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Speaker 1: But k web can actually be put on top of

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Speaker 1: that because there isn't a ton of overlap between i

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Speaker 1: MG or e M and k WEB. So I think

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Speaker 1: k web has been a little bit of an arc

403
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Speaker 1: as well in the way it's used in a portfolio.

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Speaker 1: So I agree. Crane Chairs is a really a company

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Speaker 1: doing a lot. And Ethanols just talked about the carbon

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Speaker 1: et F earlier. They have a carbon credit et F

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Speaker 1: coming out I believe in a couple of months as well. Okay, James,

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Speaker 1: those are hard knocks to follow, no pressure. What do

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Speaker 1: you got in the third quarter for US? Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: the first one, I'm gonna start with his biddow, which

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Speaker 1: made biggest headlines in Key four possibly the first bitcoin

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Speaker 1: futures et F launch in the US, first bitcoin ETF,

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Speaker 1: but unfortunately as futures I'm watching this obviously because everyone's

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Speaker 1: talking about bitcoin and have been for a while, but

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Speaker 1: also because, as I mentioned, attracts futures, and there's issues

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Speaker 1: with futures ets involving role costs. So essentially, when you

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Speaker 1: buy futures, you have to sell the current contract and

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Speaker 1: buy the next one, and there's costs in doing that,

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Speaker 1: and we want to watch see how much those role

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Speaker 1: costs add up. Currently there are about two point seven

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Speaker 1: percent and it's only about it's only been existing for

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Speaker 1: two and a half months, so um, at that rate,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be overlve annual role costs to have exposure

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Speaker 1: to this thing. But again, this thing does have hot,

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Speaker 1: tight spreads, no commissions to trade at things like that,

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Speaker 1: so we're just gonna be watching this ecosystem. I think

427
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 1: there's there's two other et f s out there right now.

428
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: There might be more of the cold bitcoin futures, and

429
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,400
Speaker 1: I think there could be some competition amongst like how

430
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: well do they track spot bitcoin and them marketing against

431
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: each other. Hey, by the way, real quick, I'm looking

432
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 1: at the volume on biddow and it's never traded under

433
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: a hundred million dollars in a day since birth. That

434
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,400
Speaker 1: that that there's no way that's been there's a precedent

435
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: for that. Yeah, I can't think of anything. It's crazy.

436
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 1: It's definitely a good trading vehicle. I just it's just

437
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: there's definitely issues for it as as a long term

438
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: holding vehicle because of those role costs that can add up. Okay,

439
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: non bitcoin news, what you got for us? Okay? So

440
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: the next one is going to be vote. Um Vote

441
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: is Engine the Engine number one transformed five t F.

442
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 1: This is just it basically holds the five d largest

443
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: US US stocks. It charges five basis points, and it's

444
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: an E s G E t F, but it doesn't

445
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: do anything in its investments to be E s G.

446
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: It's E s G through it's it's proxy voting, and

447
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: it's basically an activist investing with money behind it. So

448
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: they had they had a campaign where they want to

449
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 1: get exon. That's when that's how Engine number one got

450
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 1: its big name. They're doing stuff with GM and electric vehicles. Um.

451
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: So this is just a whole different way to spin

452
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: E s G investing that obviously, I'm gonna be watching

453
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: to see how it works out. It's almost about almost

454
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: a three million, it's about six seven months old. And

455
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 1: it's been taken in money pretty consistently, two million here,

456
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: three million there. Ever, since it's launched, pretty much every

457
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: single week is taken in somebody. So it's it's gonna

458
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 1: be interesting to see how this does, especially compared to

459
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 1: the more traditional asset managers that are doing the massive

460
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 1: exclusionary UH S G E T F strategies. Also, I

461
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: like Vote as well, UH namely because with E S G,

462
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 1: E T S you have a chance of underperforming. Here

463
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 1: you don't. It tracts the SNP and it's van Guardian

464
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 1: price point, so I like it. We actually interviewed the

465
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: vote people UM what like six months ago droll, and

466
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: they gave us a lot of information about their process.

467
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:24,719
Speaker 1: It's it was a good episode. I would go check

468
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: it out if you're interested to learn more. Yep. That

469
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: was with with Charlie Penner, who led the campaign against Exxon. UM. Okay, James,

470
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 1: what else you got? So the next one I'm gonna

471
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: so I'm very interested to watch how rate hedg gtfs go.

472
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 1: There's a lot of talk about inflation. The Fed's gonna

473
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: raise rates. UM. There's always this talk since basically UM

474
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: people want to hedge rising rates Uh. These things have

475
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: been around since then and they just haven't picked up

476
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: that much in the way of assets. But that really

477
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 1: changed in these things took in over two billion in assets.

478
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 1: So one example that is the I G b H,

479
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 1: the interest the I shares, interest rate hedge long term

480
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: corporate bond DTF. There's also l Q d H. There's

481
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: a lot of corporate bond and bond TTF that just

482
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: have a hedge on them, which basically means they're shorting treasuries.

483
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna be watching to see if these continue

484
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,239
Speaker 1: to gain assets and if they are outperforming as rates rise. Um,

485
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: we could see people piling up, piling on in uh

486
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 1: in the performance chasing manner. Okay, time out of these

487
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: interest rate hedge gtfs are really interesting. Obviously they need

488
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: the stars to align. But I wonder if the currency

489
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: hedged e t F phenomenon of what is it like wig?

490
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 1: It was big, everybody rushed in. It took sixty billion

491
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: dollars in, but then it's it's sort of stopped working

492
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: and everybody pulled out. It started working again, and no

493
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: one bought back in. They didn't get a second bite

494
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: of the apple. I wonder if the rate hedge gtfs

495
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: are tainted because of the currency hedge DTF, people who

496
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: may got burnt rushing in and then realizing it doesn't

497
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: outperform forever. Tom, what's your take on that. Yeah, I

498
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: think that's a good point. A lot of histories and indication,

499
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: whether it's the currency edge or even the arc stuff,

500
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,959
Speaker 1: people coming late into these products. So I think when

501
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: people are going to allocate the currents to rate hedge,

502
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: it will be too rate. Yeah, that's I know, that's dismal.

503
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: People suck at timing. I guess that's what I essentially said.

504
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: I also think that with rate hedging, the outperformance isn't

505
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: as shiny ish, and so it's not going to attract

506
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: as many eyeballs as it did on the international equity side.

507
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: But we'll see, okay, James, let's hear it. Okay, bring

508
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: it home. Yeah. So I So the next one I

509
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: I talked about is f R d M, which is

510
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 1: the Freedom one hundred Emerging Markets etf UM. I kind

511
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: of view this in as similar light as I view vote.

512
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: It's another play on E s G, except because when

513
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: you talk about this so emerging market, China's makeup of

514
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,239
Speaker 1: the Emerging market index by market cap. So a lot

515
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: of people talk about using e s G investing in

516
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: e s G and then they just buy a broad

517
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: emerging markets e t F and China is arguably doing

518
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: a lot of things that would go against E s

519
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: G principles, which actually it's not really arguable that they

520
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: are doing a lot of things that go against the

521
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: s G principle. And what this what this e t

522
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: F does is it kind of ranks countries and they

523
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 1: scores them by like protector how they protect life, liberty

524
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: and property rights, so human rights, economic freedoms, things like that.

525
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: So China gets booted out of this e t F.

526
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: There's a few other countries they have booted out. It's

527
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: just a different play and emerging markets exposure. It's kind

528
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 1: of like an E s G exposure to emerging markets.

529
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: UM So I'm going to be very interested to see

530
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: how this does going forward. It's a crossed over a

531
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: hundred million just recently. Um So that's another thing we're

532
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: watching again, a tilt on E s G. Again, we

533
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: had Perth toll On who started f R d M,

534
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: who grew up in China. Um we had her on

535
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: before she was cool too, where she got you know popular. Uh,

536
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: this is one of her early episodes. I will say,

537
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: I gotta say it's a little bit of a shame

538
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,479
Speaker 1: that f r d M is at a hundred million dollars,

539
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: which is good, that's healthy for indie, but the black

540
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: Rock x China um is like well over a billion

541
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: because a lot of people are liking this trade, but

542
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: they're they're doing it through the e M x China.

543
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: I think f r d M actually goes a little

544
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: further and says it's not just China, there's some other

545
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: countries that are uh equally as bad in terms of

546
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: their freedom score. But she had the idea, and it

547
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 1: just it's kind of, I don't know, a little bit

548
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: of shame that there wasn't more traction there since it

549
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: seemed to be her idea originally. But that's sort of

550
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: what distribution can do. I think, yeah, it's e M

551
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 1: x C and it's over two billion now. But one big,

552
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: one big thing to say is what you mentioned it

553
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: f r d M does more than just screen out China,

554
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: screens out a couple other countries. The other thing is

555
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: e M x C is half the price. So fr

556
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: d M is about forty nine BIPs and E m

557
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: x C ISPs, so that's another contributing factor. Hold on,

558
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: I have to see the performance of the three. Yeah,

559
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: so it looks like E m x C is up

560
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: eight percent, f r d M is up four point

561
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: six percent, and E is down four percent for the year.

562
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: So maybe E m XC has a little lecture performance,

563
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: but I think it's more black Rock and the brand

564
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: name and distribution. Okay, final pick James, and I think

565
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: I think I know what it is from last year, right.

566
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: He loves this. He can't stop thinking about it. This

567
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: is it like his significant other. I honestly get more

568
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,959
Speaker 1: questions on this product than any other product. You can

569
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: put put ten products together, and I get more questions

570
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: on this one product than all those ten together. And

571
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: it's it's stopped talking about your extra It's uh. It's

572
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: g b T the Gray School, the Gray Scale Bitcoin

573
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: trust Um. Technically it's not in e t F, but

574
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: it's the biggest. It's a multi thirty billion dollar product.

575
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: It's could been over forty billion UM. It's a it's

576
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: a behemoth that's trades otc um, but it has huge issues.

577
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: It's trading at a discount right now, there's there's some

578
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: concerns around it, but what gray Scale wants to do

579
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: is convert this to an e t F. Now, with

580
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: the SC approving the Bitcoin Futures ETF like bid, which

581
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: I already talked about, has opened some avenues for Gray

582
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: Scale to kind of like possibly file a lawsuit against

583
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: the SEC for not treating like situations alike. Um, So

584
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna see some SEC responses to other bitcoin applications

585
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: over the next few months, specifically some big ones in April,

586
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: and then the GBTC decision is due July six. So

587
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: over those next few months, I'm gonna be watching very

588
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: closely to see what kind of language the SEC uses

589
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: and how they handled the GBTC decision. We do expect

590
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: them to deny it, but if they do deny it,

591
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: I would, honestly I expect Gray Scale to possibly file

592
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: and a lawsuit citing a a p A violation. Yeah. Look,

593
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: the lure here for GBTC is that it's premium. So

594
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: if and when it gets SEC says you can convert,

595
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: that's instant profit. I mean, you should be made whole

596
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, and that's what people But it's just a

597
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: question of how long GIF to weight guys, I don't

598
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: think ENS is going to approve a spoty TF while

599
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: he's in office. That's my new thing. I'm pretty well

600
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: A lawsuit could could James, but it also could agitate

601
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: because um Gray gray Scale has a couple of these

602
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: products which arguably the SEC could like look at because

603
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: they aren't you know, they aren't really that functionally good.

604
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: I mean they had they traded wide prims and discounts.

605
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: So do you want to I mean, I look, I'm

606
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: all four. I think the SEC should approve this stuff.

607
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: The lawsuit does it great? I just if I was

608
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: an issuer, I don't know if I'd want to agitate

609
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: them like that. I don't know. It's a fascinating The

610
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: one O. The one other thing I would say is

611
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: it's more than just twenty two, so it's at a discount. Theoretically,

612
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: if it par is one hundred and it's trading at

613
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: seventy eight, to go from seventy to a hundred is

614
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: almost a thirty percent increase, not a increase, So it's

615
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: it actually is more than the discount when it goes

616
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: back to whatever NAV would be if it does get

617
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: approved but again, I don't think it's happening in two,

618
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: but I'm going to be watching very closely for what

619
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: the SEC says over the next six months. All right,

620
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: thanks James. That's five plus four plus five is is

621
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: let to do that fourteen to get to two. We

622
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: need eight more, so Eric, I guess you're on the

623
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: hook for for eight. Let's go. Yeah. We we just

624
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: hired two new people, but they're not up and writing yet,

625
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: so next year they're going to handle this. So I

626
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: took double load. Uh, because you know that's what you

627
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: gotta do sometimes, you know, you gotta alright, alright, alright,

628
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: big man, let's hear it and then we'll we'll decide

629
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: how how great these ideas are. Okay, you want that?

630
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: You want the shiny ones first or the boring ones first?

631
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: I mean the boring ones first. Like Tom did a

632
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: you know, set the table there by giving us some joking.

633
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: Tom's okay, okay, go ahead quickly. T LT long dated

634
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: Treasury is probably the most boring thing out there. But

635
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: when the market sells off the stock market, these t

636
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: l T is the one of the best all natural

637
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: organic hedges out there. Almost every time the markets we

638
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: look back, it almost offsets all your stock classes. It's

639
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: the hedge that bitcoin and gold can only dream of being.

640
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: In fact, gold is like us what it is. It's

641
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: usually like flat. Bitcoin goes down worse than the market.

642
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,959
Speaker 1: So I I really wouldn't I went back and ran

643
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: this state. I would look at bitcoin or crypto as

644
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: a high beta stock, not a hedge, and maybe not

645
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: even a store of value. Although James will probably get

646
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: triggered by that. But I also think not that I

647
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: don't like bitcoin, I just think it behaves like a

648
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: high beta stock. And then t l T. I think

649
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: next year, the market has gone up the last three years.

650
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: That is triple what you're supposed to get historically, so

651
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: we're we're like living way above our means in the

652
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: S and P. So I would perceive a rougher year,

653
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: and I think t LT will will will show again

654
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: it's a good hedge. UM and v T I another

655
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: boring one that's the Vanguard Total Market. I also picked

656
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: this one last year. I think this is a perfect

657
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: et F. It's fomo proof and owned small caps, midcaps,

658
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: value growth, whatever is doing well, you own it, even

659
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: meme stocks. And I do think overtime vt I will

660
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: be the biggest t t f UM you know on

661
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: the planet, probably within the next five years. It was

662
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: second and flows this year and because of the securities

663
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: lending and actually tracked perfectly, which means it's essentially free

664
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: exposure to the whole U s enchilada. It's a beautiful thing,

665
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: a modern miracle of science in a way. UM stick

666
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: with TALT here because that had a down years did

667
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: not do well. Right, So so you're saying that that

668
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 1: despite going down and you know, apprehensions about what the

669
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: stock market might do in two this is this will

670
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 1: be the safe the thing that everybody. So like in

671
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: two THO the market was down thirty five, TEALT was

672
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 1: up thirty UM and then in UH and then again

673
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: just last Thanksgiving or you know, like a month ago,

674
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: UM the market fell I think four percent. TALT was

675
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: up four percent. It doesn't always perfectly go up the

676
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: same the market goes down, but it's just proven to

677
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: be the best offsetter. And it's not like a derivative

678
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: where like a put option or the VIX where you're

679
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: constantly your insurance is corroding. This is literally just a

680
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: bunch of bonds it's a long only thing, and I

681
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: like the fact there's nothing weird going on. You just

682
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: own a basket of bonds. So that's why I call

683
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: it all natural. So yeah, I agree with that. As

684
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: you mentioned, gold is more of a diversifier. It does

685
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: its own thing. It never does what people expected to

686
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: Bitcoin is more of a risk acid. At this point,

687
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 1: I wouldn't argue that it's a hedge against pretty much anything.

688
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: Maybe against currency debasement, but that's about it. T LT

689
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: really is does act as an equity market hedge, and

690
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 1: in times of stress it's it's boring but effective. Um okay.

691
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: So another one is usm V. This is the popular.

692
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: Actually Tom chose this one last year. I'm sure I'm

693
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: choosing it this year. Minimum altility is such a great

694
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: easy thing to sell for an advisor to their older investors.

695
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, it's like diet coke. You get most

696
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: of the market, a little less volatility, it's a smoother ride, right,

697
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: less calories. It had a rough two years, especially since

698
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: Mark when the FED stepped in and saw a lot

699
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,240
Speaker 1: of outflows. Again, back to that second fight of the apple,

700
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: Will low Vall and Menvall get a second bite at

701
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 1: the apple. Let's say, because it's had a good December.

702
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: If it keeps it going well, people come back in.

703
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: And this is a great case study for that premise

704
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: of how many bites of the apple do you get?

705
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: More and more? I'm thinking you get one. You have

706
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: your shiny object moment. People come in and then if

707
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,479
Speaker 1: you really let them down too much and they leave,

708
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 1: I don't they tend not to come back even when

709
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: you start doing well. And that's we'll see maybe this

710
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: will overcome that. Um. And then my last one is

711
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 1: a v d V which is the Avantis International Value

712
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 1: e T F. Avantis is an up and coming issue.

713
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 1: They do like smart Beta and it's cheap, so they're

714
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: in the dirt cheap lane and they give you a

715
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: little extra you know, smart Beta in there. Uh, they

716
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: throw it in there, so it's cheap. Smart Beta International

717
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: Small Cat Value is probably the most bargain basement bargain

718
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: bin thing you can find on on the earth. Right.

719
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: The pe of this thing I think is ten. Okay,

720
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: Like if anything were to lead the charge of a

721
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: regime change of value, I would look for this. This

722
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 1: isn't just small cat value, it's international small Cat value.

723
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: So it's sort of the canary in the coal mine.

724
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: But if it pops, this thing should pop a lot.

725
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: So I'm watching it to see if we will get

726
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: some people looking at the beat up stuff. Since the

727
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: SNP had such a good run, maybe values time is

728
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: is finally arrived. Okay, So GLT USB, M v T

729
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: I A V d V those are your boring picks.

730
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: Let's get to the spicy stuff. Sure so C t

731
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: RU which is the it's see through, it's the trans

732
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: arc transparency. So one of my big problems with E

733
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: S G is that it's trying to replace something like

734
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: V T I and who in the hell wants to

735
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: give up their cheap beata and and put in something

736
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: that could underperform that costs more. It's just that's just

737
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: a tough sell. But Arc sells hot sauce, and now

738
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: what they're doing is they're making E SG hot sauce.

739
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: It's largely the G but it's looking at the most

740
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: transparent companies and it's picking one and equal waiting them.

741
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: Equal waiting is like a legal performance enhancing drug itself,

742
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: so you're basically jacking up the ball on purpose. So

743
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: this could be used as a way to compliment v T. I.

744
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 1: I'm very bullish on things complementing, not competing with Vanguard,

745
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: and this would be an e s G way to

746
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: do it. It will need the performance, but I'm watching it. Okay,

747
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: that's pretty good hot sauce. Another one is c O

748
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: p X, which is the Global X Copper Miners. This

749
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: is a fascinating story. This thing lived in oblivion for

750
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: like eleven years. It had a hundred million dollars, Like

751
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: no one gave a crap about this thing. All of

752
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: a sudden inflation hit where he's hit, and copper is

753
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: something you buy if you're worried about inflation. It's a

754
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: good it's a good hedge. And this thing now has

755
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: well over a billion dollars. It's it's amazing. It hung

756
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: on normally need TF throws in the towel after four

757
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: or five years, little loone ten. So it's I like

758
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: the fact that it's on its way up. Um. The

759
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: other thing is not only is copper and inflation hedge,

760
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: but it's like a risk on inflation hedge, and the

761
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: copper is also going to be used in a lot

762
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: of renewables and the sort of move to get to

763
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: net zero copper is a big So there's a couple

764
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,919
Speaker 1: things kind of all coming together for for this play,

765
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: I think, And luckily global x did not liquidated, and

766
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: so it's gonna be interesting to see it's one point

767
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: seven billion dollars and it was like two million like

768
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: sixteen months ago. So so the other thing that copy

769
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: miners are good for is basically economic economic recovery or activity.

770
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: So this thing was a reopening trade as well, so

771
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: it's hit a whole bunch of things that reopening, inflation,

772
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: all the things I mentioned. So it's been like in

773
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: the crosshairs of a bunch of bunch of news stories

774
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: over the last few months or years. Even at this point, Joel,

775
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: it's stars have aligned, and that's these things with these

776
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: niche products, they may have to wait ten years for

777
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: that right moment, and and this thing it seems to

778
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 1: have come because people do feel like things are okay there,

779
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: the Feds got their back, they're feeling like risk is on,

780
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: but they're definitely worried about inflation. So that's a really

781
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: that is the stars aligning for something like a copper

782
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: miners etf Anyway, so we'll see you're strong, strong, thank

783
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: you since you're naturally biased against me. The fact that

784
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: you said strong, I'm gonna actually times that by two

785
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: and be like you must be really bowled over. Okay, Um.

786
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: Next next is bits, So bits is like you know,

787
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: bid oh, James said. The problem is the roll cost

788
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: Bits basically is half bitcoin miners like blockchain stocks, and

789
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: half bitcoin futures. But it's also the futures in the

790
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: middle of the curve, and there's less roll costs. So

791
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: I did the calculation here, and you're only gonna look

792
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: at two or three percent roll costs a year probably,

793
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: and you get more kicked than you if you buy

794
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: a blockchain bitcoin mining EMTF. So it's kind of trying

795
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 1: to get the best too, best of both worlds. Because

796
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 1: I don't think advisors are gonna be comfortable with a

797
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 1: fift annual role costs. I just think it's too much,

798
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: and there's a big variable it could be more this.

799
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: I think they're like, well, look, I know the role

800
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: costs won't be that much. It's middle of the curve,

801
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: it's only half the fund. I think this is a

802
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: safer bet for advisor as well. Gensler does nothing in

803
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: order in you know why the spot et F just

804
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: sits on ice. We'll see. I don't know, but I

805
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: do see this as being something that could appeal long term,

806
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: and I like the innovation from a global x on

807
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 1: that one. Yeah, I would chime in and just say

808
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: that the blockchain and crypto thematic et F world is

809
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 1: now over. It's over two billion dollars despite having a

810
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: decent sized draw down over the last month, just because

811
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: bitcoin has also fallen. But there's fourteen e t s

812
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: already in their fifteen actually the ones launching very soon.

813
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: So um, it's very competitive market to be in. But

814
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: it's I agree with Eric, It's it's kind of hitting

815
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: all these different areas that advisors might like, especially for

816
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: advisors who don't like the roll costs of bidd oh

817
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: and do want exposure to bitcoin, and there's no spot

818
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: Bitcoin ETF g BTC trades at a discount. This kind

819
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: of fits a lot of different avenues that advisors want

820
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: exposure to stuff. It's it's in a sweet spot. Interesting.

821
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: That said, it's it's almost two months old and only

822
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: eight millions, so it's I've seen this before. Sometimes an

823
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: ETF can appeal to the critics like me, and yet

824
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: nobody cares like the ex trackers all China E t F.

825
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: All the critics were like, oh, this is the greatest,

826
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: and yet nobody bought it. It's sort it's like one

827
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: of those movies that like, uh, like Tree of Life

828
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: with Sean Penn, where like it's like a it's like

829
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: it's like a rotten tomatoes like percent and audiences. Okay,

830
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: it's very I liked it, but I'm weird, but it's

831
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: not a It's not like a movie that like it's

832
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: going to sweep the country. Anyway, all right, your final

833
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: final pick, Oh, my final one is f O v L,

834
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna actually put a couple fo f o

835
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: v L, Deep and Q vale. These are all the

836
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 1: deep value. These things by the most beat up US

837
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: value stocks, and they're at the top of our value

838
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: factor intensity score. So if and when value comes back again,

839
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: these things should lead the way. And it was interesting

840
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: we we made this intensity score and in Q one

841
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: it perfectly matched their returns. And I think these days

842
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: when people have a portfolio, if they have a V

843
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: T I or a VO or an I VV in

844
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 1: the center, like cheap beta, there would be no reason

845
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 1: to buy a water down value et F. It would

846
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: make no sense because you you own a lot of

847
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: those stocks in your SMP or your total market. But

848
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: what would make sense is a deep value again to

849
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: complement the vanguards. So in other words, one of these

850
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: deep value wepps could be the future ARC. It could

851
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: it's believe it or not. A deep value could be

852
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: a shiny object for for three or four years. Remember

853
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: small cat value lead the way in the in the

854
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: two thousand's and the SMP was flat. So I keep

855
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: This is the second year in a row've been watching

856
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: deep value, and I have two on my list obviously,

857
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: But at some point, um, I think these things are

858
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: going to be hit the hit the gold mine, Tom,

859
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: what do you think? No, I really like it, and

860
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: I agree with the ext point And if you have to,

861
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 1: if you're saying just how the value rotations have been lately,

862
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: they've been really aggressive coming back, so I think it

863
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: makes sense to go really really concentrated. It's only got

864
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: something like fourty holdings. Um, so I'm a fan of

865
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: the more concentrated strategies, so I think this one could

866
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: do well. Value comes back very aggressively. I like, I'm

867
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 1: gonna be watching it too. I like it an international value.

868
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: It you have to be watching it at this point.

869
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: I mean it's it feels my entire professional career value

870
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: has been the garbage. So uh, you don't even know

871
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: what it's like. Yeah, I don't. I really don't. Only

872
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: from I doesn't even seem like it can happen. Yeah,

873
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: I've heard tell. I've heard tell. Long ago, small cat

874
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: value wasn't the worst trade of in the land far away.

875
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: While it seems impossible, let me drop this number. So

876
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 1: in in the two thousands, I j s which is

877
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: small cat value was up in the decade, the SNP

878
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: was down eight percent. For James, that has to seem

879
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: like some kind of a fairy tale, like like like

880
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: like magic, like how could that possibly have happened? But

881
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: it did and it will happen again at some point anyway,

882
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: So just to tell you, dreams do come true for

883
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: value once in a while. James, Tom Rebecca, thanks so

884
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: much for joining us on Trilliance. Thanks for listening to

885
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: Trillions until next time. You can find it on the

886
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple podcast, Spotify, and wherever

887
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: else you like to listen. We'd love to hear from you.

888
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 1: We're on Twitter. I'm at Joel Lebershow, He's at Eric

889
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: fulture Nous. This episode of Trillions was produced by Magneth Hendrickson.

890
00:45:52,360 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 1: Francesca Levy is the head of Bloomberg podcast by the

891
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: Tera to Death