Kaitlyn Joshua: Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Caitlyn Joshua.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk
Emily Tisch Sussman: with women who dare to pivot out of one career
Emily Tisch Sussman: and into something new and explore how their personal lives
Emily Tisch Sussman: impacts these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. We
Emily Tisch Sussman: often talk on she Pivots about how life rarely follows
Emily Tisch Sussman: a straight line, and sometimes it's not just a pivot,
Emily Tisch Sussman: it's a reckoning, a moment that splits your life into
Emily Tisch Sussman: a before and an after. For Caitlyn Joshua, that moment
Emily Tisch Sussman: came in an emergency room in Louisiana where, despite suffering
Emily Tisch Sussman: a miscarriage, she was turned away not once twice. This
Emily Tisch Sussman: is the horrifying reality millions of women have to deal
Emily Tisch Sussman: with in America today. And three years after Roeph Wade
Emily Tisch Sussman: was overturned, as more and more stories are coming out
Emily Tisch Sussman: of women suffering because of the restrictive laws and doctors
Emily Tisch Sussman: withholding care because of confusion around these laws, felt important
Emily Tisch Sussman: to share Caitlyn's story. As a woman of faith, Caitlyn
Emily Tisch Sussman: spent her career as a faith organizer, working to build
Emily Tisch Sussman: community advocate for social justice, and build coalitions. Then, after
Emily Tisch Sussman: the birth of her first daughter in twenty eighteen, Caitlyn
Emily Tisch Sussman: and her husband started to plan to have their next
Emily Tisch Sussman: baby when what she thought was a minor miscarriage turned
Emily Tisch Sussman: into the most physically and mentally painful times of her life.
Emily Tisch Sussman: She was turned away from the emergency room with a
Emily Tisch Sussman: prayer and directions to just take tylanl. Kitlyn will talk
Emily Tisch Sussman: more about her experience in this episode, but just know
Emily Tisch Sussman: that it took her two months to pass her miscarriage,
Emily Tisch Sussman: two months without any medical help. Because of her background,
Emily Tisch Sussman: Caitlyn was able to understand that what happened to her
Emily Tisch Sussman: wasn't just a one off. It was a result of
Emily Tisch Sussman: the recent policy changes to limit reproductive access, and it
Emily Tisch Sussman: lit a fire that has fueled her ever since. Caitlyn
Emily Tisch Sussman: used her experience as an organizer and hit the ground running,
Emily Tisch Sussman: sharing the most intimate and difficult details of her story
Emily Tisch Sussman: to help change hearts and minds and build public support
Emily Tisch Sussman: for reproductive freedom. Last year alone, Caitlyn was named one
Emily Tisch Sussman: of Glamour's Women of the Year, launched Abortion in America,
Emily Tisch Sussman: an organization that she co created with the late Cecil Richards,
Emily Tisch Sussman: and went on the road with the Harris Walls presidential campaign,
Emily Tisch Sussman: and throughout it all her work has been rooted in
Emily Tisch Sussman: her personal story. I want to thank Caitlin for coming
Emily Tisch Sussman: on and sharing her most vulnerable story. As a mother myself,
Emily Tisch Sussman: I know how scary pregnancy can be, and no woman
Emily Tisch Sussman: should have to endure what Caitlyn went through. I hope
Emily Tisch Sussman: in sharing her story we can start to shift the
Emily Tisch Sussman: narrative and change harmful policies that are in place across
Emily Tisch Sussman: the country. Let's jump in.
Kaitlyn Joshua: My name is Caitlin Joshua, and I I am an
Kaitlyn Joshua: abortion rights advocate in South Louisiana. I also dabble in
Kaitlyn Joshua: environmental justice work, but for the most part, my life
Kaitlyn Joshua: has been abortion rights work since my own lived experience
Kaitlyn Joshua: two and a half years ago.
Emily Tisch Sussman: We're going to back all the way up. Little Kaitlin,
Emily Tisch Sussman: tell us about your family. What did you think you
Emily Tisch Sussman: wanted to be when you grew up?
Kaitlyn Joshua: Where are you from? Give us a little Kaitlin. I
Kaitlyn Joshua: am a native of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and Little Caitlin
Kaitlyn Joshua: definitely wanted to be a medical doctor. Physician. That was
Kaitlyn Joshua: my dream and I always said it out loud, and
Kaitlyn Joshua: I always joke and say I might actually still go
Kaitlyn Joshua: do that. My parents. Actually, I love telling this story.
Kaitlyn Joshua: So I grew up where both of my grandparents on
Kaitlyn Joshua: both sides lived on the same street, so you would.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And to be clear, I'm thirty two years old and
Kaitlyn Joshua: my parents are from Baton Rouge Episodically this part of
Kaitlyn Joshua: Baton Rouge called Scotlandville, which is North Baton Rouge's a
Kaitlyn Joshua: pretty predominantly black part of town. They grew up on
Kaitlyn Joshua: the same street and literally that's how they met when
Kaitlyn Joshua: they were thirteen years old and went to schooled together,
Kaitlyn Joshua: college together, and then had us And I say us,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I have a twin sister. She her name was Angel.
Kaitlyn Joshua: She's a medical doctor in New Orleans. But we were
Kaitlyn Joshua: born in nineteen ninety two, and so my parents left,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, kind of decided to settle in Southeast battle
Kaitlyn Joshua: Rouge just because it was at that time it was
Kaitlyn Joshua: kind of booming in terms of economic boom, and school
Kaitlyn Joshua: systems were kind of a hot topic at the time,
Kaitlyn Joshua: as we were kind of the longest I believe, decid
Kaitlyn Joshua: order in the United States, and so it took us
Kaitlyn Joshua: a while to get like that diversity piece within our
Kaitlyn Joshua: school systems. And so my parents are very intentional about
Kaitlyn Joshua: raising us in South end Rouge, and they still live
Kaitlyn Joshua: there today and I'm not too too far from them.
Kaitlyn Joshua: But so essentially family is pretty much like our world,
Kaitlyn Joshua: right Like we always make the joke that like everybody
Kaitlyn Joshua: kind of calls Louisiana the big magnet, right like, it's
Kaitlyn Joshua: we know we want to leave because the political landscape sucks,
Kaitlyn Joshua: to be quite honest. But we have family here, our
Kaitlyn Joshua: cultures here in terms of raising our kids in the South.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And I actually met my husband at Southern University, where
Kaitlyn Joshua: I went to college. We also worked together at a
Kaitlyn Joshua: hotel in vat Rouge, and so that was nine years ago.
Kaitlyn Joshua: We worked together and I remember started doing his physics
Kaitlyn Joshua: homework and that's how he fell in love with me.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And soon after that, seven years ago, we got married.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Had my daughter not too long after that, and she's six.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And then fast forward to now where I'm kind of
Kaitlyn Joshua: literally yanking my kids left and right to do the
Kaitlyn Joshua: work that I do, which is organizing. We had our
Kaitlyn Joshua: son a year and a half year one point five
Kaitlyn Joshua: years ago, excuse me, and have just been, you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: enjoying teaching them the importance of this moment. And I
Kaitlyn Joshua: probably referenced that a lot in this podcast, just like
Kaitlyn Joshua: helping my kids understand, you know, what is a rally,
Kaitlyn Joshua: what is a protest? Like helping them stay involved and
Kaitlyn Joshua: seeing their mom and the fight is very important to me.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And what's so interesting and the reason why I said
Kaitlyn Joshua: pro choice always, I guess like, as a young black woman,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know that considers herself very progressive, Like for me,
Kaitlyn Joshua: it was a given, and even my very staunchly Christian
Kaitlyn Joshua: parents have always raised us to be pro choice, like
Kaitlyn Joshua: through the lens of or like helping us understand that
Kaitlyn Joshua: a woman's decision is hers and it's not your business, right,
Kaitlyn Joshua: like very much helping us understand at a very young
Kaitlyn Joshua: age that it is not for us to decide how
Kaitlyn Joshua: someone wants to live their lives or the decisions that
Kaitlyn Joshua: they make with their medical providers are not our own.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And so even though I still consider myself a Christian,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I take my kids to church every single Sunday. I
Kaitlyn Joshua: also help them understand that reproductive health care is an
Kaitlyn Joshua: important facet in a woman's life and a family's lives.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And I've always been so grateful for my parents also
Kaitlyn Joshua: setting that tone for us.
Emily Tisch Sussman: So you started on the medical path, you thought you're
Emily Tisch Sussman: going to be a doctor. And as a young child,
Emily Tisch Sussman: what attracted you to being a doctor? Like, did you
Emily Tisch Sussman: have doctors in your family? And that's also super interesting
Emily Tisch Sussman: that your twin sister ended up as a doctor.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Yeah, she had to show me up. Yeah. So I
Kaitlyn Joshua: grew up around a lot of even though I didn't
Kaitlyn Joshua: have a ton of I had a lot of lawyers
Kaitlyn Joshua: in our family, but we had a couple physicians on
Kaitlyn Joshua: both my mom's side and my dad's. But for the
Kaitlyn Joshua: most part, I was inspired by a set of tins
Kaitlyn Joshua: actually that were amazing role models in the community in
Kaitlyn Joshua: baund Rouge, black women who went on to have their
Kaitlyn Joshua: own private practice, and I'd followed them for the entirety
Kaitlyn Joshua: of my childhood and into adolescents, and so I really
Kaitlyn Joshua: aspired to be like them until this day, have a
Kaitlyn Joshua: really good relationship with both of them. With me having
Kaitlyn Joshua: a twin sister, I was like, we should be like them,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know. And so I think what was so aspirational
Kaitlyn Joshua: about the two of them is it was kind of
Kaitlyn Joshua: at a time where Louisiana did not have a ton
Kaitlyn Joshua: of obi guides or just women in healthcare at all,
Kaitlyn Joshua: specifically Black women in healthcare and so it was kind
Kaitlyn Joshua: of twenty years ago, twenty almost thirty years ago in
Kaitlyn Joshua: which we kind of saw like a real trend or
Kaitlyn Joshua: intentionality behind medical schools supporting different initiatives to be able
Kaitlyn Joshua: to get more women of color in their programs. And
Kaitlyn Joshua: we got to see that firsthand. And of course now
Kaitlyn Joshua: I'm proud to say there are way more women of
Kaitlyn Joshua: color that are doing their thing, matriculating through medical school
Kaitlyn Joshua: and going on to have private practice and stay in Louisiana,
Kaitlyn Joshua: which is really cool. But at the time, it wasn't
Kaitlyn Joshua: often that you would see women of color in medicine,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and so for me that was kind of like a
Kaitlyn Joshua: sign that I should be doing something like that. And
Kaitlyn Joshua: I've always had a really big interest in science and
Kaitlyn Joshua: was really good at it, got straight a's, never missed
Kaitlyn Joshua: a science robotics class or meeting, always joined clubs like
Kaitlyn Joshua: I was obsessed with science, still am, which definitely benefits
Kaitlyn Joshua: my sex yerol now that she has science homework. But
Kaitlyn Joshua: I've always just really wanted to be in that realm,
Kaitlyn Joshua: in that realm of medicine. Can you talk us through
Kaitlyn Joshua: the change?
Emily Tisch Sussman: You said you had become disillusioned with medicine and decided
Emily Tisch Sussman: not to do it anymore?
Kaitlyn Joshua: Can you talk us through that? Yeah, to be perfectly honest,
Kaitlyn Joshua: when I was in Houston and interning at different medical
Kaitlyn Joshua: offices and trying to prep for medical school in the
Kaitlyn Joshua: next fall, I just witnessed like kind of a hierarchical
Kaitlyn Joshua: structure that I wasn't privy to you before. I never
Kaitlyn Joshua: spent that much time with a physician day in and
Kaitlyn Joshua: day out, and you know, really got to witness all
Kaitlyn Joshua: the intricacies and complexities of a medical office. And for me,
Kaitlyn Joshua: it was if I could be quite frank like, very
Kaitlyn Joshua: white patriarchal in a lot of ways, and I did.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I was like, Okay, I'm not I can't sign up
Kaitlyn Joshua: for this. I can't do that. And even though you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I didn't go on to attend or finish medical school,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and watching my sister navigate those complexities, and just like
Kaitlyn Joshua: the inherent biases implicit biases within the medical school system,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I knew that I made the right decision for myself.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And just from the time that I witnessed it in
Kaitlyn Joshua: Houston and then watching my sister like cry all the
Kaitlyn Joshua: time and get upset and frustrated when different kind of
Kaitlyn Joshua: racial undertones would happen. Within her medical school and how
Kaitlyn Joshua: she had to combat that on a daily basis. I
Kaitlyn Joshua: knew that it was not good for her mental health.
Kaitlyn Joshua: All in all, she did successfully graduate, which was wonderful,
Kaitlyn Joshua: but I knew that I had made the right decision
Kaitlyn Joshua: for my life not to deal with that.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Still, Caitlin graduated with a Bachelor in Science and headed
Emily Tisch Sussman: to Houston to pursue what she thought was her career.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I graduated, I guess that was spring of twenty sixteen,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and then, oh god, now I'm really showing my age.
Kaitlyn Joshua: But spring of twenty sixteen, and then by this summer,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I'd moved to Houston, and so I just knew I
Kaitlyn Joshua: would get my life together in Houston and I would
Kaitlyn Joshua: go on to pursue medicine. And sure enough, I did
Kaitlyn Joshua: not do that. I stuck it out in Houston for
Kaitlyn Joshua: like six months or seven months. I had my husband
Kaitlyn Joshua: Maui's my fiance at the time, moved me back to
Kaitlyn Joshua: Louisiana by summer of twenty seventeen, and that is when
Kaitlyn Joshua: I decided to go out on a limb and get
Kaitlyn Joshua: a job at a law firm. Did feel big?
Emily Tisch Sussman: Was it like an identity loss or it just felt
Emily Tisch Sussman: like Okay, let me find the next thing.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I'm young, I'll try out different stuff. It was definitely
Kaitlyn Joshua: identity loss, like so much that, you know, I'd even
Kaitlyn Joshua: I don't think you'd mind me shared. I'd even told
Kaitlyn Joshua: mys and I was like, I don't think we should
Kaitlyn Joshua: get married yet, Like I don't have anything together, dude.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Like I just wanted to kind of just do the
Kaitlyn Joshua: things that I didn't get to do in college, which
Kaitlyn Joshua: I lived at home. Don't ever do that, whoever's listening,
Kaitlyn Joshua: don't do that that idea. You save money, but you
Kaitlyn Joshua: don't have freedom. And so I lived with my parents,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and I mean I was I graduated little late twenty three,
Kaitlyn Joshua: almost twenty four, and to be almost twenty four years
Kaitlyn Joshua: old and not have like the full autonomy over your
Kaitlyn Joshua: life or what you want to do, over your schedule,
Kaitlyn Joshua: parents calling you at midnight asking where you are. So
Kaitlyn Joshua: I wanted to experience life beyond my parents' house. And
Kaitlyn Joshua: so I took the summer of twenty seventeen and through
Kaitlyn Joshua: twenty eighteen to be able to do that. It definitely
Kaitlyn Joshua: raised some help. My parents were not thrilled that I was,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, seeking another path, and I was like, you're
Kaitlyn Joshua: going to be broke. So she you know, she was
Kaitlyn Joshua: really disappointed that I spent so much of my time
Kaitlyn Joshua: in my life being committed to the cause and committed
Kaitlyn Joshua: to to you know, going to medical school and then
Kaitlyn Joshua: at the very last second deciding that was no longer
Kaitlyn Joshua: the path for me. And she even tried to convince me,
Kaitlyn Joshua: what about nursing or PA, like, you don't have to
Kaitlyn Joshua: like completely sit out of all of it. There surely
Kaitlyn Joshua: has to be a path for you. And my sister
Kaitlyn Joshua: was very supportive though, which was really weird, Like I
Kaitlyn Joshua: thought she'd be the most upset, but it was definitely
Kaitlyn Joshua: my mom and my dad. It was really hard telling
Kaitlyn Joshua: my dad as he had bragged all of his frat
Kaitlyn Joshua: brothers and family members that he was going to have
Kaitlyn Joshua: medical doctors for you know, his tones were going to
Kaitlyn Joshua: be medical physicians and we take care of him well
Kaitlyn Joshua: into his old age and all the things, and so
Kaitlyn Joshua: he was really hurt. And it wasn't until I you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: kind of showed them that, you know, organizing is a career,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you can do it and have you know, a lucrative
Kaitlyn Joshua: career and be able to make money and so you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: keep the lights on that they finally believe that I
Kaitlyn Joshua: can make it something tangible. So what did you say?
Emily Tisch Sussman: Because I think some people listening also might not even
Emily Tisch Sussman: know what an organizer is an organizer?
Kaitlyn Joshua: How do I explain an organizer? So, an organizer is
Kaitlyn Joshua: responsible for kind of bridging the gap within the community
Kaitlyn Joshua: in terms of working on certain issue areas and doing
Kaitlyn Joshua: as it sounds like, organizing around it, mobilizing people to
Kaitlyn Joshua: advocate on a certain issue, move them to you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: engage with an I Liked it official or protest or
Kaitlyn Joshua: a rally. They are responsible for basically making sure there
Kaitlyn Joshua: is impact or change on a specific issue area. And
Kaitlyn Joshua: it is also a job that requires you to work
Kaitlyn Joshua: all the time. So it's a pretty unique position. But
Kaitlyn Joshua: so funny that you asked me that my daughter just
Kaitlyn Joshua: did an interview for first grade and she asked me, mommy,
Kaitlyn Joshua: what do you do for a living. I was like,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I'm a political organizer and she said, well, what is that?
Kaitlyn Joshua: What does it do? And had to explain to her
Kaitlyn Joshua: what a political organizer is and the roles and responsibilities.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And I also remember saying like, do I want my
Kaitlyn Joshua: kid to go to school with this on a paper?
Kaitlyn Joshua: But just in terms of safety, et cetera. But you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: in all in essence, I would say organizers are responsible
Kaitlyn Joshua: for civil rights movement, any movement that you can think
Kaitlyn Joshua: of that is working to try and impact change.
Emily Tisch Sussman: After the Break, Caitlin dives into what influenced her to
Emily Tisch Sussman: become a faith organizer and the challenges she was up
Emily Tisch Sussman: against finding churches in the South that shared her values.
Emily Tisch Sussman: You spent some of your career as a faith organizer.
Emily Tisch Sussman: So how did the role of faith play in your
Emily Tisch Sussman: family and growing up?
Kaitlyn Joshua: Yeah, so I still kept a great deal of what
Kaitlyn Joshua: I learned growing up, and I've carried a lot of
Kaitlyn Joshua: those traditions to my kids, but also like switched it
Kaitlyn Joshua: up right, so I'll make y'all laugh. My sister married
Kaitlyn Joshua: a Jewish guy and they just finished doing Satyr and Passover,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and so even though my kids are not Jewish at all, like,
Kaitlyn Joshua: it's important for me to teach them that there are
Kaitlyn Joshua: different faiths and that you can honor respect other people's traditions.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And so, while I do take my kids to church
Kaitlyn Joshua: every Sunday, my husband does a men's group once a
Kaitlyn Joshua: month at church on Mondays, and then I'll go to
Kaitlyn Joshua: Ladies Night on Wednesday sometimes because for us. It's about
Kaitlyn Joshua: like filling our cup, especially right now when things beings
Kaitlyn Joshua: are so quite honestly, and you're just trying to figure
Kaitlyn Joshua: out how to make it through the day. Like I
Kaitlyn Joshua: do look to my faith to being a part of that,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, restoring of hope and restoring of being able
Kaitlyn Joshua: to kind of get through day to day with my kids.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And so, yeah, to answer your question, still very much
Kaitlyn Joshua: are involved in the church, but I also was very
Kaitlyn Joshua: intentional about where I chose to be involved, as my
Kaitlyn Joshua: pastor is so progressive and really supports the work that
Kaitlyn Joshua: I do, and like not just like supports it silently,
Kaitlyn Joshua: but shares that with the church on Sunday morning, like
Kaitlyn Joshua: the work that we're doing in the reproductive space through
Kaitlyn Joshua: the lens of black maternal health care, abortion care, whatever
Kaitlyn Joshua: you want to call it. I make sure that the
Kaitlyn Joshua: people that I surround myself with and my kids are
Kaitlyn Joshua: constantly engaging with people that are progressive in a faith.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Have you left churches or changed churches because you didn't
Emily Tisch Sussman: feel aligned. Oh yeah, absolutely, I've.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Been hurt multiple times unfortunately, and I mean even with
Kaitlyn Joshua: my son being a year and a half now, I
Kaitlyn Joshua: had to be very strategic about where I wanted to
Kaitlyn Joshua: put him for daycare. Most of our daycares in the
Kaitlyn Joshua: state are attached aligned with a church, and so I
Kaitlyn Joshua: wanted to make sure that I was giving him even
Kaitlyn Joshua: if it's like daycare, it's who's going to be with
Kaitlyn Joshua: every day, what he's going to see. And there have
Kaitlyn Joshua: been churches that have been very vocal about, you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: Kamala Harris, you know, when I was on the campaign trail,
Kaitlyn Joshua: being aligned with you know, the devil or not supporting
Kaitlyn Joshua: Christian values. And I've had to turn my back from
Kaitlyn Joshua: those churches or make sure that my kids are not
Kaitlyn Joshua: involved with folks that attend there, or just be thinking
Kaitlyn Joshua: of over the years when I was in college, like
Kaitlyn Joshua: trying out different churches, trying to figure out where I belonged.
Kaitlyn Joshua: You know, if there was a message around anti LGBTQ rights,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I would make sure that I was not back on
Kaitlyn Joshua: that Sunday right the next Sunday. And so I've had
Kaitlyn Joshua: to walk away from quite a few congregations, which I'm
Kaitlyn Joshua: grateful for in a way because it led me to
Kaitlyn Joshua: the church that I've been at for the last five
Kaitlyn Joshua: six years.
Emily Tisch Sussman: As Caitlyn figured out her path as a faith organizer,
Emily Tisch Sussman: she wasn't alone. She had her husband, Landon, who she
Emily Tisch Sussman: met in college.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I met Liandon at the Renaissance Hotel. We were both
Kaitlyn Joshua: working there ine and one day he asked me to
Kaitlyn Joshua: help him with his physics homework and I was like, sure,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I'll help you with the homework, and I ended up
Kaitlyn Joshua: doing it. But we were kind of weird because for
Kaitlyn Joshua: years we were dating other people, and like we would
Kaitlyn Joshua: travel together in a friend group and like hang out
Kaitlyn Joshua: in all these different countries, but never, like one day
Kaitlyn Joshua: we were just kind of like, why aren't we together?
Kaitlyn Joshua: And it wasn't working out with other people, And so
Kaitlyn Joshua: Blannon finally asked me out at his grandma's house, like
Kaitlyn Joshua: eight years ago and we've been together ever since, and
Kaitlyn Joshua: so literally a year to date after that, he asked
Kaitlyn Joshua: me to marry him. Here after that, we had our daughter. Wait,
Kaitlyn Joshua: we need to pause a second. Here, a grandma's house
Kaitlyn Joshua: is not traditionally the most romantic. Oh my god, it's not.
Kaitlyn Joshua: It's not. And what's so sad? Is? And yes, Slata
Kaitlyn Joshua: and I'm putting you on blast. Not only did he
Kaitlyn Joshua: ask me out at my grandma's house, at his grandma's house,
Kaitlyn Joshua: excuse me? Love her? Like love her so much, but
Kaitlyn Joshua: he asked me to marry him in the parking lot
Kaitlyn Joshua: of my parents' house. So I was like, really, dude,
Kaitlyn Joshua: like you can switch it up. Okay, we need both
Kaitlyn Joshua: stories we need can we please start with you Grandma?
Kaitlyn Joshua: So after he I'll never forget it was a Sunday
Kaitlyn Joshua: because it was a Saints game and we're New Orleans
Kaitlyn Joshua: Saints fans. We think we're still New Orleans Saints fans
Kaitlyn Joshua: and at the time we were going to a game
Kaitlyn Joshua: and we are. We just come back from the game,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and this was after this dude literally rolled up to
Kaitlyn Joshua: the ATM. He was so nervous about the date, like
Kaitlyn Joshua: he took out he thought he took out cash the ATM.
Kaitlyn Joshua: He left the cash in the ATM. We get all
Kaitlyn Joshua: the way to the New Orleans Saints game, have no money.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Thank god I had my cards, but I was like, oh,
Kaitlyn Joshua: capital want and tell them you left the money in
Kaitlyn Joshua: the ATM. And thank god they reimbursed him because I
Kaitlyn Joshua: guess they saw on camera that he really did roll
Kaitlyn Joshua: up leave money in the ATM. We go to the game.
Kaitlyn Joshua: It was amazing. Remember we won. Went out to eat
Kaitlyn Joshua: afterwards with a couple of a friend of ours that
Kaitlyn Joshua: are couple and got back to his grandma's house and
Kaitlyn Joshua: he's like, oh, you know, we've been hanging out for years,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and you know now we're both single. We should date,
Kaitlyn Joshua: can you know? Which mean my girlfriend? And I remember
Kaitlyn Joshua: your grandma's inside them all. He's right there, she's probably
Kaitlyn Joshua: looking at us through the window, and so I remember
Kaitlyn Joshua: telling him yes, and literally it was the most fun
Kaitlyn Joshua: i'd had that year. We just, oh god, we just
Kaitlyn Joshua: had such an easy relationship. And I'll say, to date,
Kaitlyn Joshua: our relationship is just so easy. Maybe that's weird to
Kaitlyn Joshua: a lot of people because they're like, how do y'all
Kaitlyn Joshua: do it? Like you just and then you pop kids
Kaitlyn Joshua: into the picture. But literally a year later, he asked
Kaitlyn Joshua: me to marry him at my parents' house, and it
Kaitlyn Joshua: was not romantic at all, Like it was pitch black outside.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I don't even remember seeing him, and I remember him
Kaitlyn Joshua: like getting on one knee, asked me to marry him.
Kaitlyn Joshua: My parents claim they had no idea inside, but I
Kaitlyn Joshua: know that he had asked them permission. And then we
Kaitlyn Joshua: go inside, we announce to them that we're engaged, and
Kaitlyn Joshua: then he leaves and goes to work. So I was like,
Kaitlyn Joshua: what in the world is wrong with you? Like he
Kaitlyn Joshua: he's never a planner. I have to do all the planning.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And so he literally, after thirty minutes of asking me
Kaitlyn Joshua: to marry him, he whisp off to At the time,
Kaitlyn Joshua: he was working for a gas station chain and went
Kaitlyn Joshua: there to go to work. And I was like, okay, Lan,
Kaitlyn Joshua: so that's kind of like the summary of our relationship
Kaitlyn Joshua: and it's always we random, yeah, And then had you
Kaitlyn Joshua: always wanted kids because you did have your daughter quite young?
Kaitlyn Joshua: I had my daughter quite young, and I did not
Kaitlyn Joshua: want kids. I did not I had no intentions on
Kaitlyn Joshua: being a mom. And I would even sell my brother
Kaitlyn Joshua: in law, my sister in law, who's my husband's brother.
Kaitlyn Joshua: You know, I'm so glad you all have kids because
Kaitlyn Joshua: I don't want kids, you know. And ended up pregnant
Kaitlyn Joshua: with Lauren, and I remember thinking I do not want kids,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and I honestly tried to convince him like are we sure,
Kaitlyn Joshua: we you know, want to do this, Like there's a lot,
Kaitlyn Joshua: We're signing up for a lot. And I remember spending
Kaitlyn Joshua: months like are you sure? Are you sure? And so
Kaitlyn Joshua: so glad that we kept her. She's a cool kid.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I like her, but at the time I had no
Kaitlyn Joshua: intentions on being a mother, and was really glad that
Kaitlyn Joshua: my kind of like mother instincts kicked in, because I
Kaitlyn Joshua: was so concerned that it wouldn't. But I loved the
Kaitlyn Joshua: freedom of just being married, you know, and the freedom
Kaitlyn Joshua: of just kind of deciding when I want to go
Kaitlyn Joshua: where I want to go. And so I always sell
Kaitlyn Joshua: my younger cousin that don't have kids yet, like, make
Kaitlyn Joshua: sure that's really what you want to do, Like it
Kaitlyn Joshua: really is a life change you're signing up for, no regrets.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Lauren's six now and is vibrant and sassy and so southern,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and so it works out great. But it took me
Kaitlyn Joshua: a minute to really for that to really resonate. I
Kaitlyn Joshua: remember the when the nurse had told me six and
Kaitlyn Joshua: a half years ago, oh, you're going to be mom,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and wait, so you found out at a doctor's I didn't.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I found out at a doctor's office. I had been
Kaitlyn Joshua: having terrible pains, couldn't explain it. That had gone on
Kaitlyn Joshua: for about two three weeks, and finally I was like,
Kaitlyn Joshua: oh my god, the hospital, like I think I'm having
Kaitlyn Joshua: a kidney stone pass or something. And got there and
Kaitlyn Joshua: the nurse walks in and she was like, Nope, You're
Kaitlyn Joshua: going to be a mom, and she was smiling, and
Kaitlyn Joshua: I was like, why are you smiling? Like are you
Kaitlyn Joshua: kidding me? Right now? Like I was so mad, so
Kaitlyn Joshua: upset and had failed birth control and was just like
Kaitlyn Joshua: so confused and frustrated, and Leanna was so excited about
Kaitlyn Joshua: being a dad kind of was just like, we can
Kaitlyn Joshua: do this. And I hadn't remember we had gone, quite honestly,
Kaitlyn Joshua: gone back and forth on whether that was the right
Kaitlyn Joshua: thing for us at that time. And by the way,
Kaitlyn Joshua: that's basically exactly what happened to me.
Emily Tisch Sussman: I wasn't as young as you were, but I just
Emily Tisch Sussman: hadn't really I just couldn't imagine myself as a mom.
Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm like, oh, I'm a I didn't feel a maternal instinct,
Emily Tisch Sussman: but like it was a real I had a lot
Emily Tisch Sussman: of fear that like that. I had heard people say
Emily Tisch Sussman: that your life will change, and I thought, well, I've
Emily Tisch Sussman: worked really hard for this life. I don't know that
Emily Tisch Sussman: I wanted to change in a way that I'm not
Emily Tisch Sussman: ready for. Were those some of the things that were
Emily Tisch Sussman: going through your head?
Kaitlyn Joshua: Or was it? Absolutely? And I love that we're having
Kaitlyn Joshua: this conversation because I feel like people don't have it enough.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Like it's a really raw and honest, you know, response
Kaitlyn Joshua: to when you find out you're pregnant, and some of us,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, don't want to be you know, and so
Kaitlyn Joshua: and I think that's okay, but those are my symptoms exactly.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I was like, I love my life, I love my freedom,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and most importantly, I was obviously concerned about finances, right,
Kaitlyn Joshua: Like we had the perfect salaries for two young kids
Kaitlyn Joshua: that just got married, but adding a kid, I was
Kaitlyn Joshua: just like, that is so expensive, and so I and
Kaitlyn Joshua: of course I saw how my mom like literally shifted
Kaitlyn Joshua: her career or her life, her goals for us and
Kaitlyn Joshua: for my dad, and I just wasn't ready to do
Kaitlyn Joshua: anything like that. And I will honestly say one of
Kaitlyn Joshua: my try not to admit this to myself, but one
Kaitlyn Joshua: of my main reasons for not even pursuing medicine again
Kaitlyn Joshua: was I was just like, well, I'm a mom now,
Kaitlyn Joshua: so I guess I'll just stick with this career, you know.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And that was a very that was a raw response
Kaitlyn Joshua: for me, and I just I didn't really know how
Kaitlyn Joshua: to wrestle with it. But kind of like similar to
Kaitlyn Joshua: your situation, my husband was just ad amazed, just like,
Kaitlyn Joshua: we can do this, It's fine. And of course when
Kaitlyn Joshua: you told his parents, then you've got that added pressure
Kaitlyn Joshua: of other people saying like we can help you. And
Kaitlyn Joshua: I'm like, okay, but you're not going to be in
Kaitlyn Joshua: the house with us, like you know, we're not going
Kaitlyn Joshua: to raise my kid for me. So and I very
Kaitlyn Joshua: well knew, just like watching my family members with their
Kaitlyn Joshua: kids that it was. It was a big change. And
Kaitlyn Joshua: to your point, I was not ready for it, and
Kaitlyn Joshua: I did not want to. I did not want to
Kaitlyn Joshua: be ready for it, right. I didn't want to be
Kaitlyn Joshua: ready for it.
Emily Tisch Sussman: And I have to say that in the end, it
Emily Tisch Sussman: has really made me double down and feel very solidified
Emily Tisch Sussman: in my own pro choice stance because I didn't necessarily
Emily Tisch Sussman: want any of my three kids, and I felt surprised.
Emily Tisch Sussman: I was surprised by all of them, and in every
Emily Tisch Sussman: way I was afraid to move to the next phase,
Emily Tisch Sussman: but may I contemplated it, and so by the time
Emily Tisch Sussman: I had them, even though it was scary, I had
Emily Tisch Sussman: made the choice, Like I felt affirmed in that choice,
Emily Tisch Sussman: and it was still really hard. Yeah, And I can't
Emily Tisch Sussman: imagine having to be in that position and having not
Emily Tisch Sussman: made that choice having it forced upon me, because then
Emily Tisch Sussman: I would also resent them and be a terrible mother. Yeah,
Emily Tisch Sussman: and maybe unprepared for it. So it really solidified that
Emily Tisch Sussman: position within me. Yeah, that's so good, and you know,
Emily Tisch Sussman: I will be honest. We had actually like flown said
Emily Tisch Sussman: Lanta because at the time, of course Louisiana, like people
Emily Tisch Sussman: don't know this, but Louisiana has never been a place
Emily Tisch Sussman: where you could easily get abortion care. And so we
Emily Tisch Sussman: had flown Atlanta, Georgia, and we were eating at a
Emily Tisch Sussman: p of Changs and I like had every intention on
Emily Tisch Sussman: having this abortion. And that is when Landon told me, well,
Emily Tisch Sussman: if you don't want the baby, then just give it
Emily Tisch Sussman: to me. And that was kind of like the final
Emily Tisch Sussman: moment of us kind of like going back and forth
Emily Tisch Sussman: on this and constantly arguing about this baby. And I
Emily Tisch Sussman: remember thinking, you know, it's my choice and if I
Emily Tisch Sussman: want and looking back, like, especially because Georgia is such
Emily Tisch Sussman: a you know, just as much a band state as Louisiana.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Now I'm grateful that at least in that moment, like
Emily Tisch Sussman: even though it was my husband pressuring me, I still
Emily Tisch Sussman: knew I had a choice. I could very well just
Emily Tisch Sussman: say no, dude, I'm not listening to you, but I'm grateful.
Emily Tisch Sussman: And my heart goes out to other people who don't
Emily Tisch Sussman: have this choice, that it is forced upon them, because
Emily Tisch Sussman: what does that do to your mental health?
Kaitlyn Joshua: What does that do to all so many things? But
Kaitlyn Joshua: in that moment, I knew I had a supports system
Kaitlyn Joshua: back home, and I knew that, you know, if Landa
Kaitlyn Joshua: was saying that he was gonna help me with a kid,
Kaitlyn Joshua: then then let's do it. But I wonder how it
Kaitlyn Joshua: would have been, you know, if I didn't get an
Kaitlyn Joshua: opportunity to fly Atlanta, eat pf changs, figure it out,
Kaitlyn Joshua: talk it out, you know what I mean, and really
Kaitlyn Joshua: be in a situation where I was forced to have
Kaitlyn Joshua: a baby regardless.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Right, Sometimes you have to go through the hard piece
Emily Tisch Sussman: like that to go because then you really contemplate it,
Emily Tisch Sussman: and then you end up in a much more solidified position,
Emily Tisch Sussman: like I really believe this, like whether it's having the baby,
Emily Tisch Sussman: you know, any other sort of hard decision, because you
Emily Tisch Sussman: really contemplated it, so you end up much stronger in
Emily Tisch Sussman: the end. Absolutely, after you had the baby, did you
Emily Tisch Sussman: then think okay we could do it again? Yeah?
Kaitlyn Joshua: Oh no, after having born you know, and like immediately after.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I just wanted to kind of take it slow, Like
Kaitlyn Joshua: I knew that it was going to be such again
Kaitlyn Joshua: a life change, and it would take a lot of
Kaitlyn Joshua: self work for me to be able to kind of,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, assimilate into this new role and get used
Kaitlyn Joshua: to life with working and being mom and having all
Kaitlyn Joshua: these different societal pressures. And so I took my time
Kaitlyn Joshua: with that.
Emily Tisch Sussman: When we come back, Caitlyn talk about their decision to
Emily Tisch Sussman: get pregnant again and the horrors that unfolded. So you've
Emily Tisch Sussman: made the decision that you're ready to have the second baby.
Emily Tisch Sussman: How quickly were you able to get pregnant? Was your
Emily Tisch Sussman: pregnancy similar to your first? Do you have those same pains? Yeah?
Kaitlyn Joshua: So, I when we finally decided that we wanted to
Kaitlyn Joshua: have a second baby, we tried for a while, and
Kaitlyn Joshua: I remember I had miscarried like once or twice before
Kaitlyn Joshua: we finally had a bible pregnancy past four weeks, to
Kaitlyn Joshua: be honest, and that was the pregnancy that I had
Kaitlyn Joshua: in I guess it was June of twenty twenty two
Kaitlyn Joshua: when I first found out that I was expecting, So
Kaitlyn Joshua: end of June, early July, and I'd called my provider's
Kaitlyn Joshua: office at the time, because, like I said in this interview,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I found out Aboutlauren at the doctor's office. Since I
Kaitlyn Joshua: was used to having that personable relationship with my provider
Kaitlyn Joshua: where I could just call and say, hey, this is happening,
Kaitlyn Joshua: see me, you know. And so when I called to
Kaitlyn Joshua: schedule that appointment and get seen right away, the medical
Kaitlyn Joshua: assistant the scheduler told me right away, hey, we're not
Kaitlyn Joshua: seeing people until twelve weeks. And I was not privy
Kaitlyn Joshua: to that answer. I never got that before, even with
Kaitlyn Joshua: the previous miscarriages, where I wanted to call and just
Kaitlyn Joshua: like check up on myself and make sure I was good,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and I expressed my physician what was going on. It
Kaitlyn Joshua: was always a really open relationship, like we were really
Kaitlyn Joshua: good about checking with each other. My twin sister sees
Kaitlyn Joshua: the same physician, so I would send word through him
Kaitlyn Joshua: her sometimes to be able to talk to him. And
Kaitlyn Joshua: I didn't recognize this new kind of door being slammed
Kaitlyn Joshua: in my face, if you will, where the scheduler was
Kaitlyn Joshua: just like, he's not going to see you till twelve weeks,
Kaitlyn Joshua: but you know, we can put you on the books.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And so that was kind of like the begetting or
Kaitlyn Joshua: kind of like foreshadowing my experience with that pregnancy.
Emily Tisch Sussman: The writing was on the wall just a few months
Emily Tisch Sussman: prior Roe v. Wade was repealed and immediately stated like
Emily Tisch Sussman: Louisiana systematically stripped away women's rights to their own bodies.
Speaker 3: Today is a it's not HYPERBOLEUS exsts a very solemn moment.
Speaker 3: Today the Supreme Court of the United States expressly took
Speaker 3: away a constousor right from the American people that had
Speaker 3: already recognized. They didn't limit it, they simply took it away.
Speaker 3: It's never been done to write so important to so
Speaker 3: many Americans.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Right tonight, the fallout from the Supreme Court ruling about
Kaitlyn Joshua: abortion rights is growing.
Emily Tisch Sussman: This after three straight days of protests across America.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Week, Louisiana lawmakers advanced a bill that would categorize abortion
Kaitlyn Joshua: as murderer. Persons are deemed unworthy of legal protection for
Kaitlyn Joshua: no other reason that they are not yet born.
Speaker 3: Now standing up for abortion rights, some with very personal
Speaker 3: reasons for showing.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Up, and I know that there will effect work in
Kaitlyn Joshua: class Black women and people more than anybody else. You've
Kaitlyn Joshua: got to show out this. The man joined his wife
Kaitlyn Joshua: and daughters. This is absolutely a human rights issue. So
Kaitlyn Joshua: when I found out I was pregnant in the summer
Kaitlyn Joshua: of twenty twenty two, called to schedule that appointment. I
Kaitlyn Joshua: did go ahead and schedule it, and I want to
Kaitlyn Joshua: clarify that that put it on the book. Said fine,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, I didn't love the answer. I'd actually called
Kaitlyn Joshua: a couple providers in the area to see if somebody
Kaitlyn Joshua: else would say something different. So it's like, let me
Kaitlyn Joshua: see if everybody else doing the same thing. And so
Kaitlyn Joshua: finally my husband I made it home from work that
Kaitlyn Joshua: evening and he said, look, if you're calling around town
Kaitlyn Joshua: and everybody's saying the same thing, Caitlin, you might as
Kaitlyn Joshua: well see the provider that you know and that you
Kaitlyn Joshua: love and that you have a relationship with. So it's like, fine,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I'll put it on the books. I'll schedule it, and
Kaitlyn Joshua: that's what I did. So unfortunately write it around ten
Kaitlyn Joshua: weeks and six days. It was the day after my
Kaitlyn Joshua: daughter's birthday party. So when I woke up that next
Kaitlyn Joshua: morning and was covered in blood, like woke up in
Kaitlyn Joshua: a pool of blood, was cramping like nothing I could
Kaitlyn Joshua: describe in words. And I always say, like, I've had
Kaitlyn Joshua: two babies at this point, and the pain and severity
Kaitlyn Joshua: of that situation does not you know, does not compare
Kaitlyn Joshua: to even the labor and delivery that I have with
Kaitlyn Joshua: my son and my daughter. Like it was just it
Kaitlyn Joshua: was awful. And I decided to drive myself to a
Kaitlyn Joshua: hospital that was local to the area. They have a
Kaitlyn Joshua: women's Assessment center is what it's called at most facilities,
Kaitlyn Joshua: And so I went ahead and drove myself to that
Kaitlyn Joshua: hospital and I called Land and in the car and ironically,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I was on a zoom call. I was like, why
Kaitlyn Joshua: the hell am I working? But I told my asse.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I was like, I need to clock out and I
Kaitlyn Joshua: need to handle something and I'll get back on when
Kaitlyn Joshua: I can. And so I called Lane and I said, hey,
Kaitlyn Joshua: this is what's happening. I'll keep you posting. He's like, yeah, definitely.
Kaitlyn Joshua: He was like, it's probably just stressed from a birthday party.
Kaitlyn Joshua: You were, you know, kind of went crazy, was run
Kaitlyn Joshua: around town getting all these different things. You should have
Kaitlyn Joshua: took it easy, but was seen rather quickly. At that
Kaitlyn Joshua: first hospital. The physician or the nurse practitioner on staff
Kaitlyn Joshua: like brought me in to triage and you know, she's
Kaitlyn Joshua: kind of checking the service and she's like, oh, your
Kaitlyn Joshua: service is still closed. Like even though you're bleeding pretty profusely,
Kaitlyn Joshua: it doesn't mean that this pregnancy is no longer viable.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Just like let's be hopeful. And she was like, it
Kaitlyn Joshua: could be still a viable pregnancy. So I'm to send
Kaitlyn Joshua: you over to the ultrasound tech. So get to the
Kaitlyn Joshua: ultrasound tech, she said, nothing. I will never forget that.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Like literally, I'm just sitting in that room with her
Kaitlyn Joshua: for thirty minutes looking at the ceiling, and she's not
Kaitlyn Joshua: expressing what's going on, and of course like she's maneuvering
Kaitlyn Joshua: the technology across the belly with the cold jel and
Kaitlyn Joshua: not saying anything. And so I was a little discouraged
Kaitlyn Joshua: in that room. Went over to another room where they
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, kind of have like a little conference, if
Kaitlyn Joshua: you will, with the patients, and so no respectationer walks
Kaitlyn Joshua: over and she says, I can't really tell whether or
Kaitlyn Joshua: not you're miscaring, And I said, well, what do you mean,
Kaitlyn Joshua: Like it's pretty obvious if someone misc caring typically and
Kaitlyn Joshua: understand like you've got to wait, you know, baby heart
Kaitlyn Joshua: stop or can't you know, can't find fetal heart tones,
Kaitlyn Joshua: et cetera. But we had done all those things, so
Kaitlyn Joshua: I wanted to get clarity and she said, well, I
Kaitlyn Joshua: can't tell you if you're still pregnant or if this
Kaitlyn Joshua: is a miscarriage. We're just gonna have to wait and see.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And I said, well, each be able to express something,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and she said no, but I'm praying for you. If
Kaitlyn Joshua: things get worse, you're more than we going to come
Kaitlyn Joshua: back and we can continue to check and see if
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, this is a viable pregnancy. But you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: we're sending you home with prayers. And that stuck with
Kaitlyn Joshua: me till this day that she, you know, kind of
Kaitlyn Joshua: just like was avoiding eye contact. It was just like,
Kaitlyn Joshua: we're sending you home with prayers and kind of looking
Kaitlyn Joshua: at the floor and so you are you are bleeding
Kaitlyn Joshua: and they are sending you home, yeah, bleeding in there.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And I was like, and what world do people do this?
Kaitlyn Joshua: You know? I just kept thinking that, like sending me
Kaitlyn Joshua: home to do what? And my discharge papers did not
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, give some type of care instructions or anything.
Kaitlyn Joshua: It was just nothing. And I remember, you know, laying
Kaitlyn Joshua: in the car and saying, well, she says she can't
Kaitlyn Joshua: tell whether or not. He was like, what do you
Kaitlyn Joshua: mean like this makes sense, and it's like, well, she said,
Kaitlyn Joshua: she can't tell, we'll have to come back.
Emily Tisch Sussman: And at any point did they say to you come
Emily Tisch Sussman: back if X happens.
Kaitlyn Joshua: No, And I think that was like the wildest part
Kaitlyn Joshua: for me, or the hardest thing for me, is just
Kaitlyn Joshua: like I'm not a medical doctor. How would I know?
Kaitlyn Joshua: And and no given point did she say, you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: if you're going through because I know, like from previous miscarriages,
Kaitlyn Joshua: if you're going this amount of through this meaning pads,
Kaitlyn Joshua: or if you're bleeding this much, these are the things
Kaitlyn Joshua: to look for. And she didn't say any of that.
Kaitlyn Joshua: She's just like, if it gets worse, if the pain
Kaitlyn Joshua: gets worse, if you're bleeding more, come back. So I
Kaitlyn Joshua: drove myself home and ended up picking up my daughter
Kaitlyn Joshua: a few hours later, picking it up from school, and
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, went to bed that evening and of course
Kaitlyn Joshua: woke up the next morning and it was worse. The
Kaitlyn Joshua: pain was worse, the amount of blood was significantly more.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And at that point, you know, I saw a mother
Kaitlyn Joshua: login can you take Lauren. She's like, I'm praying my
Kaitlyn Joshua: mom my mother in law around It was like I'm
Kaitlyn Joshua: praying for you. She's a minister so I was like, okay,
Kaitlyn Joshua: that's on brand. But she sent me out the door
Kaitlyn Joshua: with you know, this time, you shouldn't go by yourself,
Kaitlyn Joshua: like at least meet somebody out. I've got more, but
Kaitlyn Joshua: you need to get with somebody. She's like, what if
Kaitlyn Joshua: you lead out behind the wheel? Caitlin like, come on, no.
Kaitlyn Joshua: So I called my mom, who didn't even know I
Kaitlyn Joshua: was pregnant at the time. Now that I'm looking back,
Kaitlyn Joshua: but I called my mom and she said, what do
Kaitlyn Joshua: you I mean your pregnant. I was like, well, I
Kaitlyn Joshua: wasn't going to say anything till twelve weeks because you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I was kind of nervous as I've had previous miscarriages.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And she said, well, yeah, I'm there. I'm on the way.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And so she met me at this second hospital and
Kaitlyn Joshua: so did my husband. So I was like, okay, good,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I have two people with me to navigate this. And
Kaitlyn Joshua: I remember, you know, walking into the emergency room because
Kaitlyn Joshua: that's what I decided to walk into this time at
Kaitlyn Joshua: a different hospital because I knew if I went back
Kaitlyn Joshua: to the last one, I didn't want to deal with
Kaitlyn Joshua: her praying for me again. So I walked in and
Kaitlyn Joshua: the security guard was like, oh, my god, whoa. And
Kaitlyn Joshua: I'm sure he saw the amount of blood that I
Kaitlyn Joshua: had all over my jeans, and of course I had
Kaitlyn Joshua: changed before I got there, but didn't realize I'd led
Kaitlyn Joshua: through these jeans again, and so are these different set
Kaitlyn Joshua: of jeans. And so he put me in a wheelchair
Kaitlyn Joshua: because it's just like this is way too much. We
Kaitlyn Joshua: got to put you in a wheelchair. So put me
Kaitlyn Joshua: in a wheelchair, rolls me to the back, and I
Kaitlyn Joshua: got back there pretty quickly, didn't have any way time.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And the first person that came in was a nurse,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and I remember the conversation that she and I had
Kaitlyn Joshua: was absolutely riveting, like it was wild. My mom was
Kaitlyn Joshua: standing there the whole time and was out in the
Kaitlyn Joshua: hallway at this point, just kind of filling in his parents.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And she she walks in and she's like, well, you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: people come in here miscaring all the time and they
Kaitlyn Joshua: think it's so much blood and they're going to bleed out,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and it's really not that bad. And she said that.
Kaitlyn Joshua: My mom was like, that is not comforting, Like what
Kaitlyn Joshua: are you doing? And she was just like, well, you
Kaitlyn Joshua: know a lot of times, like people misjudge the amount
Kaitlyn Joshua: of blood that they are losing and it's you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: nothing to be alarmed about, like it's just a miscarriage potentially,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and so my mom was like, oh, okay, well we'll just
Kaitlyn Joshua: wait to hear from the physician. And ultrasound tech walks
Kaitlyn Joshua: in after that, and he was so kind. I remember
Kaitlyn Joshua: he said, you know, my wife and I have seven
Kaitlyn Joshua: children and we've had seven miscarriages. And I knew that
Kaitlyn Joshua: he was trying to like make me feel better about
Kaitlyn Joshua: what this probably was and like let me know I
Kaitlyn Joshua: could try again, and so I appreciated, you know, his comments,
Kaitlyn Joshua: but you know, he did said much more. How unlike
Kaitlyn Joshua: the last ultrasoundtech that I'd seen the previous day, he
Kaitlyn Joshua: was kind enough to just kind of engage with me
Kaitlyn Joshua: and try and keep me calm throughout. And a physician
Kaitlyn Joshua: finally walks in, and I'm thinking she's going to be
Kaitlyn Joshua: just so helpful and like, you know, provide some type
Kaitlyn Joshua: of clarity and comfort or closure, and she walks in
Kaitlyn Joshua: and she says, are you sure you were ever pregnant?
Kaitlyn Joshua: And I said, what do you mean? I was like,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I literally have not had my period in over eleven weeks,
Kaitlyn Joshua: like I know that I'm pregnant. She said, well, no,
Kaitlyn Joshua: this just looks like a cist to me. And my
Kaitlyn Joshua: mom was like, okay, this is ridiculous, like the My
Kaitlyn Joshua: husband was like, what do you mean, like assist and
Kaitlyn Joshua: she's like, well, it doesn't have a heartbeat anymore. And
Kaitlyn Joshua: I remember asking her, well, if it doesn't have a heartbeat,
Kaitlyn Joshua: then this is a miscarriage, and she was like, well,
Kaitlyn Joshua: we can't tell, we don't know. And I said, well, look,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I've had miscarriages before. Can I please just get a
Kaitlyn Joshua: DNC procedure or some type of medication abortion I should
Kaitlyn Joshua: be able to get something like the pain is just unbearable.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And she said no, we're not going to do that
Kaitlyn Joshua: at this time. We're not doing that. And at this point,
Kaitlyn Joshua: my sister's on FaceTime, Like I said, she was in
Kaitlyn Joshua: med school at the time, and she said, kay, like
Kaitlyn Joshua: they're not. She's not going to help you like these
Kaitlyn Joshua: the laws are preventing her. She's not going to give
Kaitlyn Joshua: you the type of kid that you're asking for. Ask
Kaitlyn Joshua: her what you should do, like what you should look
Kaitlyn Joshua: out for, and so I did and she's like, well,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you can take talent a I was like, ma'am, I've
Kaitlyn Joshua: been taking town all for four days I need something else,
Kaitlyn Joshua: Like tilen all is not you know, making me, it's
Kaitlyn Joshua: not releaving any type of pain. And so she said, look,
Kaitlyn Joshua: we're not doing that. Your discharge papers will have care
Kaitlyn Joshua: instructions on it and if you get worse, you could
Kaitlyn Joshua: always come back. And I didn't. I didn't come back
Kaitlyn Joshua: after that, but I remember reading my discharge papers. It
Kaitlyn Joshua: literally said take tal and all and again nothing that
Kaitlyn Joshua: was useful information to help me navigate this miscarriage. And
Kaitlyn Joshua: I remember after that just being so frustrated and discouraged,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and even though I kept bleeding and I kept having
Kaitlyn Joshua: the pain, and every day I'm like sweating it out,
Kaitlyn Joshua: Like this miscarriage is really wearing me out. I remember thinking,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, you know what, if I don't make it
Kaitlyn Joshua: through this, and had I know what I knew now,
Kaitlyn Joshua: I probably would have gone back somewhere else, just because
Kaitlyn Joshua: I didn't think it would last as long as it did.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I literally took me. It literally took me right under
Kaitlyn Joshua: two months to fully pass that miscarriage, and like constantly
Kaitlyn Joshua: having a safe face for my kid, you know, wake
Kaitlyn Joshua: up every morning tatnel or leave or whatever I had
Kaitlyn Joshua: on hand. Finally getting you know, some medication that actually,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, alleviate some of the pain, which wasn't done
Kaitlyn Joshua: all or leave, but like just trying to use some
Kaitlyn Joshua: of the resources I had available with different medical physician
Kaitlyn Joshua: friends I have. It was rough. It was so rough,
Kaitlyn Joshua: and I didn't want to believe that in the twenty
Kaitlyn Joshua: first century a system could let you down like this.
Kaitlyn Joshua: But that completely changed my worldview and like especially my
Kaitlyn Joshua: outlook on maternal health care in the US. It was like,
Kaitlyn Joshua: it is twenty twenty two, and I am praying that
Kaitlyn Joshua: I don't hemorrhage. I don't, you know, I want to
Kaitlyn Joshua: be here for my kid. I want to be able
Kaitlyn Joshua: to raise my daughter, and here I am like using
Kaitlyn Joshua: the internet and you know, ideas off of social media
Kaitlyn Joshua: on how to navigate a miscarriage and manage a miscarriage
Kaitlyn Joshua: excuse me, without actual medication. It was literally the worst
Kaitlyn Joshua: part of my life. And I've I've tried to do
Kaitlyn Joshua: good job of like blacking out a lot of those
Kaitlyn Joshua: feelings and emotions just because it was just it was.
Kaitlyn Joshua: It was hard. It was really hard, for lack of
Kaitlyn Joshua: a better term.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Did she or anyone at any point articulate do you
Emily Tisch Sussman: when you would be considered hemorrhaging to the point of
Emily Tisch Sussman: life threatening or permanent damage, that they would be able
Emily Tisch Sussman: to provide you with adequate care.
Kaitlyn Joshua: No, I never got that, And it's so it's it's
Kaitlyn Joshua: frightening to think that, like people are being sent out
Kaitlyn Joshua: into the world to try and like figure this out
Kaitlyn Joshua: at home. And of course, like, not everybody's story ends happily, right,
Kaitlyn Joshua: not everybody. And we've seen the news where you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: different presularly women of color and other women have been
Kaitlyn Joshua: denied the care and obviously have lost their lives as
Kaitlyn Joshua: a result of trying to navigate this on their own
Kaitlyn Joshua: and being left without any medical resources. And so yeah,
Kaitlyn Joshua: it's extremely difficult to see that in the Again, the
Kaitlyn Joshua: twenty first century and twenty twenty five were still up
Kaitlyn Joshua: against that vagueness within the law that doesn't provide for
Kaitlyn Joshua: a physician to be able to use their expertise.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Caitlin is just one of thousands of women who have
Emily Tisch Sussman: had dangerous and traumatic experiences surrounding their pregnancies. Many of
Emily Tisch Sussman: them wanted their pregnancies too, and still when their nightmare
Emily Tisch Sussman: becomes a reality and their life is at risk, these
Emily Tisch Sussman: states are preventing them from getting the care they need.
Kaitlyn Joshua: The only thing that really made sense was the loss
Kaitlyn Joshua: of the time. Obviously, this is right after the overturn
Kaitlyn Joshua: of row, and I want to make that clear just
Kaitlyn Joshua: in terms of timeline, because I'm in this situation in
Kaitlyn Joshua: the fall of twenty twenty two, and so I understand,
Kaitlyn Joshua: like I'm sure, there was confusion and chaos and probably
Kaitlyn Joshua: still is in terms of how physicians are interpretating the laws.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And we've seen that very clearly with the amount of
Kaitlyn Joshua: physicians that have come down to the capital or lobbyed
Kaitlyn Joshua: or advocated against these laws that are preventing them from
Kaitlyn Joshua: using their medical expertise. And I know in that moment,
Kaitlyn Joshua: just when in the language that the physician used like no,
Kaitlyn Joshua: we're not doing that at this time, No, I can't
Kaitlyn Joshua: do that, I'm not able to do that at this moment,
Kaitlyn Joshua: it definitely her fear in being able to give that
Kaitlyn Joshua: care in that moment. And of course those laws have
Kaitlyn Joshua: not changed, and so we're still seeing so many women
Kaitlyn Joshua: across the state and in all band states being denied
Kaitlyn Joshua: that very important medical care because of the fear factor.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Physicians don't want to lose their medical licenses, the licenses
Kaitlyn Joshua: they work so hard to get. And also you know
Kaitlyn Joshua: there's the fear of serving time for it. Right, there's
Kaitlyn Joshua: real jail time and consequences, criminal consequences to be had
Kaitlyn Joshua: should you break the laws. And I know that they
Kaitlyn Joshua: have to think about that first, which is sad. And
Kaitlyn Joshua: in that moment, I know that physician the fear she
Kaitlyn Joshua: had on her face, the physician and the medical provider
Kaitlyn Joshua: the day before, like not being able to look me
Kaitlyn Joshua: in the eye and just say like, I can't do
Kaitlyn Joshua: that at this moment.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Is there a difference between these procedures like a DNC
Emily Tisch Sussman: or abortion medication to be used for an abortion or
Emily Tisch Sussman: to be used for a miscarriage because there a difference
Emily Tisch Sussman: in the medication. Is there a difference of a usage.
Emily Tisch Sussman: It sounds like by that point you are already qualified
Emily Tisch Sussman: for We're just treating the mother and we're not touching abortion.
Emily Tisch Sussman: So do you know if there is a difference.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And I say, unfortunately, because that is the issue, right
Kaitlyn Joshua: There isn't a difference if you require abortion care, whether
Kaitlyn Joshua: it's a miscarriage or an elective abortion. At the end
Kaitlyn Joshua: of the day, it's still an abortion. Even though miscarriage
Kaitlyn Joshua: has the medical term of spontaneous abortion, it still doesn't
Kaitlyn Joshua: provide cover for a physician to be able to use
Kaitlyn Joshua: that expertise. But I will also say that there is
Kaitlyn Joshua: a way around it, right because we do know in
Kaitlyn Joshua: the state of Louisiana, if you cite it as miscarriage management,
Kaitlyn Joshua: even though you know a DNC procedure is still used
Kaitlyn Joshua: in elective abortions, it is also used for miscarriage management.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Same with mith forpristone and mysoprostal. These are medications that
Kaitlyn Joshua: are not only used for abortion care, but a myriad
Kaitlyn Joshua: of different ways and for many different illnesses and issues
Kaitlyn Joshua: related to healthcare. And so there is a way to
Kaitlyn Joshua: check the box that allows for a physician to use
Kaitlyn Joshua: their medical license and their discretion when needed and when necessary,
Kaitlyn Joshua: versus you know, explicitly saying that, explicitly stating that it's
Kaitlyn Joshua: abortion care, which flags the state to think that this
Kaitlyn Joshua: is an elective abortion and folks are figuring it out.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I think the frustration and the confusion comes in with
Kaitlyn Joshua: the vagueness of the law because it specifically says you
Kaitlyn Joshua: cannot provide this care hard stop. A lot of the
Kaitlyn Joshua: physicians that aren't necessarily well seasoned or not have been
Kaitlyn Joshua: doing it for decades have not figured out how to
Kaitlyn Joshua: again and protect themselves and their career while also putting
Kaitlyn Joshua: patient first. Whereas I've also seen other physicians that are
Kaitlyn Joshua: able to say no, I can do that and check that,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, check a box of saving life of mother
Kaitlyn Joshua: without even coming up against the law and the intricacies
Kaitlyn Joshua: of the law. And so it is in all that
Kaitlyn Joshua: to say, I don't think, actually I know, it is
Kaitlyn Joshua: not a lack of education, because I think a lot
Kaitlyn Joshua: of times, like a certain political party likes to suspend
Kaitlyn Joshua: this as they just need better understanding of the law.
Kaitlyn Joshua: They just need a little bit more help in understanding
Kaitlyn Joshua: the intricacies of the law and the implications. And it's
Kaitlyn Joshua: not that it is strictly that the law does provide
Kaitlyn Joshua: for the state to use its discretion or whether or
Kaitlyn Joshua: not they want to prosecute or find or strip the
Kaitlyn Joshua: license of a physician based on their medical decision. And
Kaitlyn Joshua: so until we get rid of that exception, if you will,
Kaitlyn Joshua: we get rid of that vagueness, folks are going to
Kaitlyn Joshua: continue to operate with this patchwork of decision making.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Caitlyn's story embodies so much of what we talk about
Emily Tisch Sussman: here on She pivots how she went through something deeply
Emily Tisch Sussman: personal only to come out of it on the other side,
Emily Tisch Sussman: motivated to use that experience to pivot. Building on her
Emily Tisch Sussman: background as an organizer, Caitlyn has used her story to
Emily Tisch Sussman: advocate for other women who have been through and will
Emily Tisch Sussman: be impacted by the same harmful laws that hurt her.
Emily Tisch Sussman: She has spoken in front of the Senate.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Thank you Chairman Widen for having me, and ranking Member
Kaitlyn Joshua: Crepo and members of the Senate Finance Committe for having
Kaitlyn Joshua: me here today. My name is Caitlin Joshua, and I'm
Kaitlyn Joshua: from Louisiana. I'm here to talk about my own experience
Kaitlyn Joshua: under extreme abortion bands in my home states, soon after
Kaitlyn Joshua: the Supreme Court eliminated the federal right to abortion care
Kaitlyn Joshua: more than two years ago, and the problems.
Emily Tisch Sussman: We stood on stage at the Democratic National Convention and
Emily Tisch Sussman: shared her story.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Two emergency rooms sent me away because of Louisiana's abortion ban.
Kaitlyn Joshua: No one would confirm that I was miscaring. I was
Kaitlyn Joshua: in pain, bleading so much. My husband feared for my life.
Kaitlyn Joshua: No woman should experience what I endured, but too many have.
Kaitlyn Joshua: They write to me saying, what happened to you, happened
Kaitlyn Joshua: to me.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Sometimes It has turned her pain into purpose as the
Emily Tisch Sussman: co creator of Abortion in America, which she created alongside
Emily Tisch Sussman: the late Cecil Richards.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Journey this year and beyond. And the scope is kind
Kaitlyn Joshua: of large, and a lot of folks have asked me, like,
Kaitlyn Joshua: what is the goal of abortion in America? It's kind
Kaitlyn Joshua: of old one. We want a play and space in
Kaitlyn Joshua: which these stories live well beyond the twenty four hour
Kaitlyn Joshua: news cycle, because we saw even like with elections, right,
Kaitlyn Joshua: like people come and go on these issues, and where
Kaitlyn Joshua: are we making sure that these stories are housed and
Kaitlyn Joshua: live forever? And most importantly helped thems like identify that
Kaitlyn Joshua: it you know, well sourced storytellers that want to share
Kaitlyn Joshua: your story, that want to get the word out ultimately
Kaitlyn Joshua: change hearts and minds, which is what we know we
Kaitlyn Joshua: got to do to change policy right and to change
Kaitlyn Joshua: the real impacts that the word based there and helping
Kaitlyn Joshua: people navigate their state and you know, their states apportion
Kaitlyn Joshua: bands and understanding the implications that it has on their
Kaitlyn Joshua: own health. And this is really where I feel like
Kaitlyn Joshua: to get two religious on y'all, But like where the
Kaitlyn Joshua: Lord wants me, you know, and I always like, you know,
Kaitlyn Joshua: pray about that and think about that, like where should
Kaitlyn Joshua: I be? How can I be? Making change in someone
Kaitlyn Joshua: else's life, And had it not been for me going
Kaitlyn Joshua: through that terrible low point in my life, it would
Kaitlyn Joshua: not have led me to this high point of being
Kaitlyn Joshua: able to be a helper, which is so important to me.
Kaitlyn Joshua: We have a lot of listeners of reproductive age.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Do you think that as they're finding an OBI that
Emily Tisch Sussman: works for them, as they try to become pregnant or
Emily Tisch Sussman: become pregnant, that they should ask this question about you know,
Emily Tisch Sussman: sort of push the doctor like, you know, what would
Emily Tisch Sussman: you do in this scenario? Like is that something that's
Emily Tisch Sussman: happening now? I mean it's it's puts the onus on
Emily Tisch Sussman: the scared pregnant person, which is insane, it is, Yeah,
Emily Tisch Sussman: And is it stayed by state at this point? Like
Emily Tisch Sussman: what can someone do to navigate this if they're in
Emily Tisch Sussman: this situation in this moment.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Yeah. I love that question because I think about it
Kaitlyn Joshua: often and I even thought about it with my son.
Kaitlyn Joshua: The first question I asked my medical provider when I
Kaitlyn Joshua: walked in the room, and in fact, she finished the sentence.
Kaitlyn Joshua: So I decided to go an hour away, which sounds crazy,
Kaitlyn Joshua: but I decided to go an hour away for my
Kaitlyn Joshua: pregnancy with Liam, my one and a half year old,
Kaitlyn Joshua: because I did not want to be seen by the
Kaitlyn Joshua: medical providers or kind of operate within the medical system,
Kaitlyn Joshua: healthcare system and band rouge because I had been failed
Kaitlyn Joshua: by them, right and not to hold a grudge, but
Kaitlyn Joshua: like it is what it is, and I knew that
Kaitlyn Joshua: if we were talking about my life or potentially what
Kaitlyn Joshua: happened throughout my pregnancy, I wanted to be under the
Kaitlyn Joshua: care of someone who would act immediately to save my life,
Kaitlyn Joshua: who would not have to try and you know, navigate
Kaitlyn Joshua: a specific law or not want to use their expertise
Kaitlyn Joshua: in training for fear of criminalization. And so for me,
Kaitlyn Joshua: that was the first thing I did. I researched medical
Kaitlyn Joshua: providers in the state that believes in abortion care, that
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, utilized the full aspect of reproductive health care.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And I landed in New Orleans, which is an hour
Kaitlyn Joshua: from my house, and even my sister at the time,
Kaitlyn Joshua: she helped me research, particularly women of color physicians or
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know women in general. Home. I mean, ironically, I
Kaitlyn Joshua: ended up with an awesome white lady who was so progressive
Kaitlyn Joshua: and so liberal in her worldview. We have such a
Kaitlyn Joshua: deficit of black doctors in the Saita Louisiana. Everybody's trying
Kaitlyn Joshua: to get in with them, right, like, you don't we
Kaitlyn Joshua: have such few of them, and so I couldn't get
Kaitlyn Joshua: in with the one that I really wanted, and so
Kaitlyn Joshua: I researched one more and landed with this physician in
Kaitlyn Joshua: New Orleans. And the first thing I asked her when
Kaitlyn Joshua: I walked through the door was do you believe in
Kaitlyn Joshua: abortion care? And to finish my sentence, she was like, look,
Kaitlyn Joshua: not only do we believe in abortion care, we operate,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, with our full scope of work. Within the
Kaitlyn Joshua: full scope of our work, I utilize my extraduc in
Kaitlyn Joshua: training to whatever degree that I need to use it
Kaitlyn Joshua: if it means saving my patience, and we will always,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, act with that first. And she even had
Kaitlyn Joshua: a pin on her her scrubs that was like abortion care.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And I was like, yes, I'm in the right place.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And so to that, I say, yes, you have to be.
Kaitlyn Joshua: And not to say, like everybody has like the privilege
Kaitlyn Joshua: to be able to go hour away and lose time
Kaitlyn Joshua: on work and like technically going an hour ways like
Kaitlyn Joshua: what three hours off the clock, and so not to
Kaitlyn Joshua: say you have to go to that, you know, grave
Kaitlyn Joshua: of length, but grade of length, but certainly do your homework,
Kaitlyn Joshua: ask that question, and if you don't like your answer,
Kaitlyn Joshua: you need you very well sure better find someone else
Kaitlyn Joshua: because your life is too valuable. And I think it's
Kaitlyn Joshua: important for us to center women and birthing people in
Kaitlyn Joshua: this conversation. A lot of times we just hear about baby,
Kaitlyn Joshua: but we're important too, and it's important that we have
Kaitlyn Joshua: physicians that are making sure that we are Our health
Kaitlyn Joshua: is paramount when they're practicing. And there's nothing wrong with
Kaitlyn Joshua: asking all the questions, doing your research and making sure
Kaitlyn Joshua: that you're in good hands.
Emily Tisch Sussman: What is something It could be somethove talked about before,
Emily Tisch Sussman: or something different, something that at one point you saw
Emily Tisch Sussman: as a low point, but now you see it as
Emily Tisch Sussman: having really been formative to who you are today.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I would have to say navigating my miscarriage. It was
Kaitlyn Joshua: such a low point in my life, and I will
Kaitlyn Joshua: be honest, like it changed so much of my relationship
Kaitlyn Joshua: with my husband. We both had to go to therapy,
Kaitlyn Joshua: were both still in therapy, and my husband for a
Kaitlyn Joshua: while had turned to some really unhealthy habits. And it
Kaitlyn Joshua: was such a difficult moment. Because folks, of course, like here,
Kaitlyn Joshua: they may hear about your miscarriage. They may not, but
Kaitlyn Joshua: they definitely don't see the aftermath and kind of the
Kaitlyn Joshua: domino effect of going through something so traumatic. And so
Kaitlyn Joshua: I would definitely say that was the lowest point in
Kaitlyn Joshua: my life and for the people around me, was probably
Kaitlyn Joshua: difficult for them, having to navigate the new Caitlin, the
Kaitlyn Joshua: new Land and after coming you know, on the other
Kaitlyn Joshua: side of it. And so definitely lowest point. And I
Kaitlyn Joshua: would say, ironically like it kind of like led me
Kaitlyn Joshua: to a high point, which is in this moment where
Kaitlyn Joshua: I'm at advocating for women's healthcare. Do you think you'll
Kaitlyn Joshua: pivot again? I do. I think I will pivot again,
Kaitlyn Joshua: but I won't leave behind reproductive health care. What I'm
Kaitlyn Joshua: doing with it, or how I show up to the work.
Kaitlyn Joshua: They look different, but I certainly feel like this is
Kaitlyn Joshua: my life's mission and goal to make sure that I'm
Kaitlyn Joshua: amplifying black maternal health care and reproductive healthcare in general.
Kaitlyn Joshua: Thank you so much, Caitlin.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Of course, Caitlyn still lives in Louisiana with her husband
Emily Tisch Sussman: and two children, and it's continuing to advocate for reproductive freedom.
Emily Tisch Sussman: As the co creator of abortion in America that is
Emily Tisch Sussman: providing real stories about the devastating impact of the abortion
Emily Tisch Sussman: band and how those restrictions pose a threat to the
Emily Tisch Sussman: well being of all pregnant women. If you want to
Emily Tisch Sussman: spread the word and share these stories, you can visit
Emily Tisch Sussman: their website at Abortionanamerica dot org. You can also stay
Emily Tisch Sussman: up to date with Caitlin on her Instagram at katet Joshua.
Emily Tisch Sussman: Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to this episode of
Emily Tisch Sussman: she Pivots. I hope you enjoyed it, and if you did,
Emily Tisch Sussman: leave us a rating and tell your friends about us.
Emily Tisch Sussman: To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram
Emily Tisch Sussman: at she pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our
Emily Tisch Sussman: newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content
Emily Tisch Sussman: on our website at she pivots thepodcast dot com. This
Emily Tisch Sussman: episode was produced and edited by Emily Atavelosk, with sound
Emily Tisch Sussman: editing and mixing from Nina Pollock, Audio production and social
Emily Tisch Sussman: media by Hannah Cousins, research by Christine Dickinson, and logistics
Emily Tisch Sussman: and planning by Emma Stopic and Kendall Krupkin. She Pivots
Emily Tisch Sussman: is proud to be a part of the iHeart Podcast Network.
Kaitlyn Joshua: I endorse she Pivots