1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Caitlyn Joshua. 2 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk 3 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: with women who dare to pivot out of one career 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: and into something new and explore how their personal lives 5 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:31,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: impacts these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. We 6 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: often talk on she Pivots about how life rarely follows 7 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: a straight line, and sometimes it's not just a pivot, 8 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: it's a reckoning, a moment that splits your life into 9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:45,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: a before and an after. For Caitlyn Joshua, that moment 10 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: came in an emergency room in Louisiana where, despite suffering 11 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: a miscarriage, she was turned away not once twice. This 12 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: is the horrifying reality millions of women have to deal 13 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: with in America today. And three years after Roeph Wade 14 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:03,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: was overturned, as more and more stories are coming out 15 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: of women suffering because of the restrictive laws and doctors 16 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: withholding care because of confusion around these laws, felt important 17 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,759 Emily Tisch Sussman: to share Caitlyn's story. As a woman of faith, Caitlyn 18 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: spent her career as a faith organizer, working to build 19 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: community advocate for social justice, and build coalitions. Then, after 20 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: the birth of her first daughter in twenty eighteen, Caitlyn 21 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:26,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: and her husband started to plan to have their next 22 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,679 Emily Tisch Sussman: baby when what she thought was a minor miscarriage turned 23 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: into the most physically and mentally painful times of her life. 24 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: She was turned away from the emergency room with a 25 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: prayer and directions to just take tylanl. Kitlyn will talk 26 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: more about her experience in this episode, but just know 27 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,959 Emily Tisch Sussman: that it took her two months to pass her miscarriage, 28 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: two months without any medical help. Because of her background, 29 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: Caitlyn was able to understand that what happened to her 30 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: wasn't just a one off. It was a result of 31 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: the recent policy changes to limit reproductive access, and it 32 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: lit a fire that has fueled her ever since. Caitlyn 33 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: used her experience as an organizer and hit the ground running, 34 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: sharing the most intimate and difficult details of her story 35 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: to help change hearts and minds and build public support 36 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: for reproductive freedom. Last year alone, Caitlyn was named one 37 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: of Glamour's Women of the Year, launched Abortion in America, 38 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: an organization that she co created with the late Cecil Richards, 39 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: and went on the road with the Harris Walls presidential campaign, 40 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: and throughout it all her work has been rooted in 41 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: her personal story. I want to thank Caitlin for coming 42 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: on and sharing her most vulnerable story. As a mother myself, 43 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: I know how scary pregnancy can be, and no woman 44 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: should have to endure what Caitlyn went through. I hope 45 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: in sharing her story we can start to shift the 46 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: narrative and change harmful policies that are in place across 47 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:50,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: the country. Let's jump in. 48 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: My name is Caitlin Joshua, and I I am an 49 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: abortion rights advocate in South Louisiana. I also dabble in 50 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: environmental justice work, but for the most part, my life 51 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,239 Kaitlyn Joshua: has been abortion rights work since my own lived experience 52 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:12,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: two and a half years ago. 53 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: We're going to back all the way up. Little Kaitlin, 54 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: tell us about your family. What did you think you 55 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:19,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: wanted to be when you grew up? 56 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: Where are you from? Give us a little Kaitlin. I 57 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: am a native of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and Little Caitlin 58 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: definitely wanted to be a medical doctor. Physician. That was 59 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,799 Kaitlyn Joshua: my dream and I always said it out loud, and 60 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: I always joke and say I might actually still go 61 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: do that. My parents. Actually, I love telling this story. 62 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: So I grew up where both of my grandparents on 63 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: both sides lived on the same street, so you would. 64 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: And to be clear, I'm thirty two years old and 65 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: my parents are from Baton Rouge Episodically this part of 66 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: Baton Rouge called Scotlandville, which is North Baton Rouge's a 67 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: pretty predominantly black part of town. They grew up on 68 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: the same street and literally that's how they met when 69 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: they were thirteen years old and went to schooled together, 70 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: college together, and then had us And I say us, 71 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: I have a twin sister. She her name was Angel. 72 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: She's a medical doctor in New Orleans. But we were 73 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: born in nineteen ninety two, and so my parents left, 74 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, kind of decided to settle in Southeast battle 75 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: Rouge just because it was at that time it was 76 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: kind of booming in terms of economic boom, and school 77 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: systems were kind of a hot topic at the time, 78 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: as we were kind of the longest I believe, decid 79 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: order in the United States, and so it took us 80 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: a while to get like that diversity piece within our 81 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: school systems. And so my parents are very intentional about 82 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: raising us in South end Rouge, and they still live 83 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: there today and I'm not too too far from them. 84 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,359 Kaitlyn Joshua: But so essentially family is pretty much like our world, 85 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: right Like we always make the joke that like everybody 86 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: kind of calls Louisiana the big magnet, right like, it's 87 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: we know we want to leave because the political landscape sucks, 88 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: to be quite honest. But we have family here, our 89 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,559 Kaitlyn Joshua: cultures here in terms of raising our kids in the South. 90 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: And I actually met my husband at Southern University, where 91 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: I went to college. We also worked together at a 92 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: hotel in vat Rouge, and so that was nine years ago. 93 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: We worked together and I remember started doing his physics 94 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:07,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: homework and that's how he fell in love with me. 95 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: And soon after that, seven years ago, we got married. 96 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: Had my daughter not too long after that, and she's six. 97 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: And then fast forward to now where I'm kind of 98 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,599 Kaitlyn Joshua: literally yanking my kids left and right to do the 99 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: work that I do, which is organizing. We had our 100 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:24,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: son a year and a half year one point five 101 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,039 Kaitlyn Joshua: years ago, excuse me, and have just been, you know, 102 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: enjoying teaching them the importance of this moment. And I 103 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: probably referenced that a lot in this podcast, just like 104 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: helping my kids understand, you know, what is a rally, 105 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: what is a protest? Like helping them stay involved and 106 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,919 Kaitlyn Joshua: seeing their mom and the fight is very important to me. 107 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: And what's so interesting and the reason why I said 108 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: pro choice always, I guess like, as a young black woman, 109 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know that considers herself very progressive, Like for me, 110 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,359 Kaitlyn Joshua: it was a given, and even my very staunchly Christian 111 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: parents have always raised us to be pro choice, like 112 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,919 Kaitlyn Joshua: through the lens of or like helping us understand that 113 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: a woman's decision is hers and it's not your business, right, 114 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: like very much helping us understand at a very young 115 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: age that it is not for us to decide how 116 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: someone wants to live their lives or the decisions that 117 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: they make with their medical providers are not our own. 118 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: And so even though I still consider myself a Christian, 119 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: I take my kids to church every single Sunday. I 120 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: also help them understand that reproductive health care is an 121 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,159 Kaitlyn Joshua: important facet in a woman's life and a family's lives. 122 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: And I've always been so grateful for my parents also 123 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: setting that tone for us. 124 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: So you started on the medical path, you thought you're 125 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: going to be a doctor. And as a young child, 126 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: what attracted you to being a doctor? Like, did you 127 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: have doctors in your family? And that's also super interesting 128 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: that your twin sister ended up as a doctor. 129 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,919 Kaitlyn Joshua: Yeah, she had to show me up. Yeah. So I 130 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: grew up around a lot of even though I didn't 131 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: have a ton of I had a lot of lawyers 132 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: in our family, but we had a couple physicians on 133 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: both my mom's side and my dad's. But for the 134 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: most part, I was inspired by a set of tins 135 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: actually that were amazing role models in the community in 136 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: baund Rouge, black women who went on to have their 137 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: own private practice, and I'd followed them for the entirety 138 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: of my childhood and into adolescents, and so I really 139 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: aspired to be like them until this day, have a 140 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: really good relationship with both of them. With me having 141 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: a twin sister, I was like, we should be like them, 142 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know. And so I think what was so aspirational 143 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: about the two of them is it was kind of 144 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: at a time where Louisiana did not have a ton 145 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: of obi guides or just women in healthcare at all, 146 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: specifically Black women in healthcare and so it was kind 147 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: of twenty years ago, twenty almost thirty years ago in 148 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: which we kind of saw like a real trend or 149 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:45,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: intentionality behind medical schools supporting different initiatives to be able 150 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: to get more women of color in their programs. And 151 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: we got to see that firsthand. And of course now 152 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: I'm proud to say there are way more women of 153 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: color that are doing their thing, matriculating through medical school 154 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: and going on to have private practice and stay in Louisiana, 155 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: which is really cool. But at the time, it wasn't 156 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: often that you would see women of color in medicine, 157 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: and so for me that was kind of like a 158 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: sign that I should be doing something like that. And 159 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: I've always had a really big interest in science and 160 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,239 Kaitlyn Joshua: was really good at it, got straight a's, never missed 161 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: a science robotics class or meeting, always joined clubs like 162 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: I was obsessed with science, still am, which definitely benefits 163 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: my sex yerol now that she has science homework. But 164 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: I've always just really wanted to be in that realm, 165 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: in that realm of medicine. Can you talk us through 166 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:34,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: the change? 167 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: You said you had become disillusioned with medicine and decided 168 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:38,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: not to do it anymore? 169 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: Can you talk us through that? Yeah, to be perfectly honest, 170 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: when I was in Houston and interning at different medical 171 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: offices and trying to prep for medical school in the 172 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:52,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: next fall, I just witnessed like kind of a hierarchical 173 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: structure that I wasn't privy to you before. I never 174 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,599 Kaitlyn Joshua: spent that much time with a physician day in and 175 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,439 Kaitlyn Joshua: day out, and you know, really got to witness all 176 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: the intricacies and complexities of a medical office. And for me, 177 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,199 Kaitlyn Joshua: it was if I could be quite frank like, very 178 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,199 Kaitlyn Joshua: white patriarchal in a lot of ways, and I did. 179 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:11,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: I was like, Okay, I'm not I can't sign up 180 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: for this. I can't do that. And even though you know, 181 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: I didn't go on to attend or finish medical school, 182 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: and watching my sister navigate those complexities, and just like 183 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: the inherent biases implicit biases within the medical school system, 184 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: I knew that I made the right decision for myself. 185 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: And just from the time that I witnessed it in 186 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: Houston and then watching my sister like cry all the 187 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: time and get upset and frustrated when different kind of 188 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: racial undertones would happen. Within her medical school and how 189 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: she had to combat that on a daily basis. I 190 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: knew that it was not good for her mental health. 191 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: All in all, she did successfully graduate, which was wonderful, 192 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: but I knew that I had made the right decision 193 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: for my life not to deal with that. 194 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: Still, Caitlin graduated with a Bachelor in Science and headed 195 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: to Houston to pursue what she thought was her career. 196 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: I graduated, I guess that was spring of twenty sixteen, 197 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: and then, oh god, now I'm really showing my age. 198 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: But spring of twenty sixteen, and then by this summer, 199 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: I'd moved to Houston, and so I just knew I 200 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: would get my life together in Houston and I would 201 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: go on to pursue medicine. And sure enough, I did 202 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: not do that. I stuck it out in Houston for 203 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: like six months or seven months. I had my husband 204 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: Maui's my fiance at the time, moved me back to 205 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: Louisiana by summer of twenty seventeen, and that is when 206 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: I decided to go out on a limb and get 207 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: a job at a law firm. Did feel big? 208 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: Was it like an identity loss or it just felt 209 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:37,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: like Okay, let me find the next thing. 210 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: I'm young, I'll try out different stuff. It was definitely 211 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: identity loss, like so much that, you know, I'd even 212 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: I don't think you'd mind me shared. I'd even told 213 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:48,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: mys and I was like, I don't think we should 214 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: get married yet, Like I don't have anything together, dude. 215 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: Like I just wanted to kind of just do the 216 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: things that I didn't get to do in college, which 217 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: I lived at home. Don't ever do that, whoever's listening, 218 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: don't do that that idea. You save money, but you 219 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: don't have freedom. And so I lived with my parents, 220 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: and I mean I was I graduated little late twenty three, 221 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: almost twenty four, and to be almost twenty four years 222 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: old and not have like the full autonomy over your 223 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: life or what you want to do, over your schedule, 224 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: parents calling you at midnight asking where you are. So 225 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: I wanted to experience life beyond my parents' house. And 226 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: so I took the summer of twenty seventeen and through 227 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: twenty eighteen to be able to do that. It definitely 228 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: raised some help. My parents were not thrilled that I was, 229 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, seeking another path, and I was like, you're 230 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: going to be broke. So she you know, she was 231 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: really disappointed that I spent so much of my time 232 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,559 Kaitlyn Joshua: in my life being committed to the cause and committed 233 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: to to you know, going to medical school and then 234 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: at the very last second deciding that was no longer 235 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: the path for me. And she even tried to convince me, 236 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: what about nursing or PA, like, you don't have to 237 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: like completely sit out of all of it. There surely 238 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,439 Kaitlyn Joshua: has to be a path for you. And my sister 239 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: was very supportive though, which was really weird, Like I 240 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: thought she'd be the most upset, but it was definitely 241 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: my mom and my dad. It was really hard telling 242 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: my dad as he had bragged all of his frat 243 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:09,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: brothers and family members that he was going to have 244 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: medical doctors for you know, his tones were going to 245 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: be medical physicians and we take care of him well 246 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: into his old age and all the things, and so 247 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: he was really hurt. And it wasn't until I you know, 248 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: kind of showed them that, you know, organizing is a career, 249 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: you can do it and have you know, a lucrative 250 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: career and be able to make money and so you know, 251 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: keep the lights on that they finally believe that I 252 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: can make it something tangible. So what did you say? 253 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: Because I think some people listening also might not even 254 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: know what an organizer is an organizer? 255 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: How do I explain an organizer? So, an organizer is 256 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: responsible for kind of bridging the gap within the community 257 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: in terms of working on certain issue areas and doing 258 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: as it sounds like, organizing around it, mobilizing people to 259 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: advocate on a certain issue, move them to you know, 260 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: engage with an I Liked it official or protest or 261 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:06,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: a rally. They are responsible for basically making sure there 262 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: is impact or change on a specific issue area. And 263 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: it is also a job that requires you to work 264 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: all the time. So it's a pretty unique position. But 265 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: so funny that you asked me that my daughter just 266 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: did an interview for first grade and she asked me, mommy, 267 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:22,319 Kaitlyn Joshua: what do you do for a living. I was like, 268 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,679 Kaitlyn Joshua: I'm a political organizer and she said, well, what is that? 269 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: What does it do? And had to explain to her 270 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: what a political organizer is and the roles and responsibilities. 271 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,839 Kaitlyn Joshua: And I also remember saying like, do I want my 272 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: kid to go to school with this on a paper? 273 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: But just in terms of safety, et cetera. But you know, 274 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: in all in essence, I would say organizers are responsible 275 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: for civil rights movement, any movement that you can think 276 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: of that is working to try and impact change. 277 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,079 Emily Tisch Sussman: After the Break, Caitlin dives into what influenced her to 278 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: become a faith organizer and the challenges she was up 279 00:13:54,240 --> 00:14:00,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: against finding churches in the South that shared her values. 280 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: You spent some of your career as a faith organizer. 281 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:16,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: So how did the role of faith play in your 282 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,199 Emily Tisch Sussman: family and growing up? 283 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: Yeah, so I still kept a great deal of what 284 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: I learned growing up, and I've carried a lot of 285 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: those traditions to my kids, but also like switched it 286 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: up right, so I'll make y'all laugh. My sister married 287 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:35,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: a Jewish guy and they just finished doing Satyr and Passover, 288 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: and so even though my kids are not Jewish at all, like, 289 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: it's important for me to teach them that there are 290 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: different faiths and that you can honor respect other people's traditions. 291 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: And so, while I do take my kids to church 292 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: every Sunday, my husband does a men's group once a 293 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: month at church on Mondays, and then I'll go to 294 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: Ladies Night on Wednesday sometimes because for us. It's about 295 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: like filling our cup, especially right now when things beings 296 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: are so quite honestly, and you're just trying to figure 297 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:04,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: out how to make it through the day. Like I 298 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: do look to my faith to being a part of that, 299 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, restoring of hope and restoring of being able 300 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: to kind of get through day to day with my kids. 301 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: And so, yeah, to answer your question, still very much 302 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: are involved in the church, but I also was very 303 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: intentional about where I chose to be involved, as my 304 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: pastor is so progressive and really supports the work that 305 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: I do, and like not just like supports it silently, 306 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: but shares that with the church on Sunday morning, like 307 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: the work that we're doing in the reproductive space through 308 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: the lens of black maternal health care, abortion care, whatever 309 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: you want to call it. I make sure that the 310 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: people that I surround myself with and my kids are 311 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: constantly engaging with people that are progressive in a faith. 312 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: Have you left churches or changed churches because you didn't 313 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: feel aligned. Oh yeah, absolutely, I've. 314 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:54,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: Been hurt multiple times unfortunately, and I mean even with 315 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: my son being a year and a half now, I 316 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: had to be very strategic about where I wanted to 317 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: put him for daycare. Most of our daycares in the 318 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: state are attached aligned with a church, and so I 319 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: wanted to make sure that I was giving him even 320 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: if it's like daycare, it's who's going to be with 321 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: every day, what he's going to see. And there have 322 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: been churches that have been very vocal about, you know, 323 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: Kamala Harris, you know, when I was on the campaign trail, 324 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: being aligned with you know, the devil or not supporting 325 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: Christian values. And I've had to turn my back from 326 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: those churches or make sure that my kids are not 327 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: involved with folks that attend there, or just be thinking 328 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: of over the years when I was in college, like 329 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: trying out different churches, trying to figure out where I belonged. 330 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: You know, if there was a message around anti LGBTQ rights, 331 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: I would make sure that I was not back on 332 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: that Sunday right the next Sunday. And so I've had 333 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: to walk away from quite a few congregations, which I'm 334 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: grateful for in a way because it led me to 335 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:46,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: the church that I've been at for the last five 336 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:47,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: six years. 337 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: As Caitlyn figured out her path as a faith organizer, 338 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: she wasn't alone. She had her husband, Landon, who she 339 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:55,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: met in college. 340 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: I met Liandon at the Renaissance Hotel. We were both 341 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: working there ine and one day he asked me to 342 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: help him with his physics homework and I was like, sure, 343 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: I'll help you with the homework, and I ended up 344 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: doing it. But we were kind of weird because for 345 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: years we were dating other people, and like we would 346 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: travel together in a friend group and like hang out 347 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: in all these different countries, but never, like one day 348 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: we were just kind of like, why aren't we together? 349 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: And it wasn't working out with other people, And so 350 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,199 Kaitlyn Joshua: Blannon finally asked me out at his grandma's house, like 351 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: eight years ago and we've been together ever since, and 352 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: so literally a year to date after that, he asked 353 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: me to marry him. Here after that, we had our daughter. Wait, 354 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: we need to pause a second. Here, a grandma's house 355 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: is not traditionally the most romantic. Oh my god, it's not. 356 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,399 Kaitlyn Joshua: It's not. And what's so sad? Is? And yes, Slata 357 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: and I'm putting you on blast. Not only did he 358 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: ask me out at my grandma's house, at his grandma's house, 359 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: excuse me? Love her? Like love her so much, but 360 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: he asked me to marry him in the parking lot 361 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: of my parents' house. So I was like, really, dude, 362 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: like you can switch it up. Okay, we need both 363 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,399 Kaitlyn Joshua: stories we need can we please start with you Grandma? 364 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: So after he I'll never forget it was a Sunday 365 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: because it was a Saints game and we're New Orleans 366 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: Saints fans. We think we're still New Orleans Saints fans 367 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: and at the time we were going to a game 368 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: and we are. We just come back from the game, 369 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,439 Kaitlyn Joshua: and this was after this dude literally rolled up to 370 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: the ATM. He was so nervous about the date, like 371 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: he took out he thought he took out cash the ATM. 372 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,879 Kaitlyn Joshua: He left the cash in the ATM. We get all 373 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: the way to the New Orleans Saints game, have no money. 374 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: Thank god I had my cards, but I was like, oh, 375 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:34,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: capital want and tell them you left the money in 376 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: the ATM. And thank god they reimbursed him because I 377 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: guess they saw on camera that he really did roll 378 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: up leave money in the ATM. We go to the game. 379 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,919 Kaitlyn Joshua: It was amazing. Remember we won. Went out to eat 380 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: afterwards with a couple of a friend of ours that 381 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: are couple and got back to his grandma's house and 382 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: he's like, oh, you know, we've been hanging out for years, 383 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: and you know now we're both single. We should date, 384 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,639 Kaitlyn Joshua: can you know? Which mean my girlfriend? And I remember 385 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:02,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: your grandma's inside them all. He's right there, she's probably 386 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: looking at us through the window, and so I remember 387 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: telling him yes, and literally it was the most fun 388 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,119 Kaitlyn Joshua: i'd had that year. We just, oh god, we just 389 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: had such an easy relationship. And I'll say, to date, 390 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,359 Kaitlyn Joshua: our relationship is just so easy. Maybe that's weird to 391 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: a lot of people because they're like, how do y'all 392 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: do it? Like you just and then you pop kids 393 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: into the picture. But literally a year later, he asked 394 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,199 Kaitlyn Joshua: me to marry him at my parents' house, and it 395 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: was not romantic at all, Like it was pitch black outside. 396 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: I don't even remember seeing him, and I remember him 397 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: like getting on one knee, asked me to marry him. 398 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: My parents claim they had no idea inside, but I 399 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: know that he had asked them permission. And then we 400 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,199 Kaitlyn Joshua: go inside, we announce to them that we're engaged, and 401 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,199 Kaitlyn Joshua: then he leaves and goes to work. So I was like, 402 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: what in the world is wrong with you? Like he 403 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: he's never a planner. I have to do all the planning. 404 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,159 Kaitlyn Joshua: And so he literally, after thirty minutes of asking me 405 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: to marry him, he whisp off to At the time, 406 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: he was working for a gas station chain and went 407 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: there to go to work. And I was like, okay, Lan, 408 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: so that's kind of like the summary of our relationship 409 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:08,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: and it's always we random, yeah, And then had you 410 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: always wanted kids because you did have your daughter quite young? 411 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: I had my daughter quite young, and I did not 412 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,199 Kaitlyn Joshua: want kids. I did not I had no intentions on 413 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: being a mom. And I would even sell my brother 414 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:21,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: in law, my sister in law, who's my husband's brother. 415 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:23,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: You know, I'm so glad you all have kids because 416 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,679 Kaitlyn Joshua: I don't want kids, you know. And ended up pregnant 417 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,399 Kaitlyn Joshua: with Lauren, and I remember thinking I do not want kids, 418 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: and I honestly tried to convince him like are we sure, 419 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: we you know, want to do this, Like there's a lot, 420 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: We're signing up for a lot. And I remember spending 421 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: months like are you sure? Are you sure? And so 422 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,439 Kaitlyn Joshua: so glad that we kept her. She's a cool kid. 423 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,119 Kaitlyn Joshua: I like her, but at the time I had no 424 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: intentions on being a mother, and was really glad that 425 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,199 Kaitlyn Joshua: my kind of like mother instincts kicked in, because I 426 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: was so concerned that it wouldn't. But I loved the 427 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,399 Kaitlyn Joshua: freedom of just being married, you know, and the freedom 428 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,199 Kaitlyn Joshua: of just kind of deciding when I want to go 429 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: where I want to go. And so I always sell 430 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: my younger cousin that don't have kids yet, like, make 431 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:02,919 Kaitlyn Joshua: sure that's really what you want to do, Like it 432 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: really is a life change you're signing up for, no regrets. 433 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:11,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: Lauren's six now and is vibrant and sassy and so southern, 434 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: and so it works out great. But it took me 435 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: a minute to really for that to really resonate. I 436 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: remember the when the nurse had told me six and 437 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: a half years ago, oh, you're going to be mom, 438 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,919 Kaitlyn Joshua: and wait, so you found out at a doctor's I didn't. 439 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: I found out at a doctor's office. I had been 440 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,479 Kaitlyn Joshua: having terrible pains, couldn't explain it. That had gone on 441 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: for about two three weeks, and finally I was like, 442 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: oh my god, the hospital, like I think I'm having 443 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,639 Kaitlyn Joshua: a kidney stone pass or something. And got there and 444 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: the nurse walks in and she was like, Nope, You're 445 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,399 Kaitlyn Joshua: going to be a mom, and she was smiling, and 446 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: I was like, why are you smiling? Like are you 447 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: kidding me? Right now? Like I was so mad, so 448 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: upset and had failed birth control and was just like 449 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:54,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: so confused and frustrated, and Leanna was so excited about 450 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: being a dad kind of was just like, we can 451 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: do this. And I hadn't remember we had gone, quite honestly, 452 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: gone back and forth on whether that was the right 453 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: thing for us at that time. And by the way, 454 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: that's basically exactly what happened to me. 455 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: I wasn't as young as you were, but I just 456 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: hadn't really I just couldn't imagine myself as a mom. 457 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm like, oh, I'm a I didn't feel a maternal instinct, 458 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,639 Emily Tisch Sussman: but like it was a real I had a lot 459 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: of fear that like that. I had heard people say 460 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:19,639 Emily Tisch Sussman: that your life will change, and I thought, well, I've 461 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,919 Emily Tisch Sussman: worked really hard for this life. I don't know that 462 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: I wanted to change in a way that I'm not 463 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: ready for. Were those some of the things that were 464 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:26,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: going through your head? 465 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: Or was it? Absolutely? And I love that we're having 466 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: this conversation because I feel like people don't have it enough. 467 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,959 Kaitlyn Joshua: Like it's a really raw and honest, you know, response 468 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: to when you find out you're pregnant, and some of us, 469 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,359 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, don't want to be you know, and so 470 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,159 Kaitlyn Joshua: and I think that's okay, but those are my symptoms exactly. 471 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: I was like, I love my life, I love my freedom, 472 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: and most importantly, I was obviously concerned about finances, right, 473 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: Like we had the perfect salaries for two young kids 474 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: that just got married, but adding a kid, I was 475 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: just like, that is so expensive, and so I and 476 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: of course I saw how my mom like literally shifted 477 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,919 Kaitlyn Joshua: her career or her life, her goals for us and 478 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: for my dad, and I just wasn't ready to do 479 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: anything like that. And I will honestly say one of 480 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: my try not to admit this to myself, but one 481 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: of my main reasons for not even pursuing medicine again 482 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:15,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: was I was just like, well, I'm a mom now, 483 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,639 Kaitlyn Joshua: so I guess I'll just stick with this career, you know. 484 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: And that was a very that was a raw response 485 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: for me, and I just I didn't really know how 486 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: to wrestle with it. But kind of like similar to 487 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,679 Kaitlyn Joshua: your situation, my husband was just ad amazed, just like, 488 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: we can do this, It's fine. And of course when 489 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: you told his parents, then you've got that added pressure 490 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: of other people saying like we can help you. And 491 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:37,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: I'm like, okay, but you're not going to be in 492 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,159 Kaitlyn Joshua: the house with us, like you know, we're not going 493 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: to raise my kid for me. So and I very 494 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: well knew, just like watching my family members with their 495 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: kids that it was. It was a big change. And 496 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,439 Kaitlyn Joshua: to your point, I was not ready for it, and 497 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: I did not want to. I did not want to 498 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: be ready for it, right. I didn't want to be 499 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:54,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: ready for it. 500 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,639 Emily Tisch Sussman: And I have to say that in the end, it 501 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: has really made me double down and feel very solidified 502 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:07,399 Emily Tisch Sussman: in my own pro choice stance because I didn't necessarily 503 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: want any of my three kids, and I felt surprised. 504 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: I was surprised by all of them, and in every 505 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: way I was afraid to move to the next phase, 506 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: but may I contemplated it, and so by the time 507 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: I had them, even though it was scary, I had 508 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: made the choice, Like I felt affirmed in that choice, 509 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: and it was still really hard. Yeah, And I can't 510 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: imagine having to be in that position and having not 511 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,399 Emily Tisch Sussman: made that choice having it forced upon me, because then 512 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: I would also resent them and be a terrible mother. Yeah, 513 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: and maybe unprepared for it. So it really solidified that 514 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: position within me. Yeah, that's so good, and you know, 515 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: I will be honest. We had actually like flown said 516 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: Lanta because at the time, of course Louisiana, like people 517 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: don't know this, but Louisiana has never been a place 518 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: where you could easily get abortion care. And so we 519 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,679 Emily Tisch Sussman: had flown Atlanta, Georgia, and we were eating at a 520 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,679 Emily Tisch Sussman: p of Changs and I like had every intention on 521 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: having this abortion. And that is when Landon told me, well, 522 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: if you don't want the baby, then just give it 523 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: to me. And that was kind of like the final 524 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: moment of us kind of like going back and forth 525 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: on this and constantly arguing about this baby. And I 526 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: remember thinking, you know, it's my choice and if I 527 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: want and looking back, like, especially because Georgia is such 528 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: a you know, just as much a band state as Louisiana. 529 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: Now I'm grateful that at least in that moment, like 530 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: even though it was my husband pressuring me, I still 531 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:33,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: knew I had a choice. I could very well just 532 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: say no, dude, I'm not listening to you, but I'm grateful. 533 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: And my heart goes out to other people who don't 534 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: have this choice, that it is forced upon them, because 535 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:42,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: what does that do to your mental health? 536 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,879 Kaitlyn Joshua: What does that do to all so many things? But 537 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: in that moment, I knew I had a supports system 538 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: back home, and I knew that, you know, if Landa 539 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:51,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: was saying that he was gonna help me with a kid, 540 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: then then let's do it. But I wonder how it 541 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,879 Kaitlyn Joshua: would have been, you know, if I didn't get an 542 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: opportunity to fly Atlanta, eat pf changs, figure it out, 543 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: talk it out, you know what I mean, and really 544 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: be in a situation where I was forced to have 545 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:06,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: a baby regardless. 546 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: Right, Sometimes you have to go through the hard piece 547 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,439 Emily Tisch Sussman: like that to go because then you really contemplate it, 548 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: and then you end up in a much more solidified position, 549 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: like I really believe this, like whether it's having the baby, 550 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: you know, any other sort of hard decision, because you 551 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,439 Emily Tisch Sussman: really contemplated it, so you end up much stronger in 552 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: the end. Absolutely, after you had the baby, did you 553 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: then think okay we could do it again? Yeah? 554 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:38,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: Oh no, after having born you know, and like immediately after. 555 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: I just wanted to kind of take it slow, Like 556 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,119 Kaitlyn Joshua: I knew that it was going to be such again 557 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: a life change, and it would take a lot of 558 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: self work for me to be able to kind of, 559 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, assimilate into this new role and get used 560 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,479 Kaitlyn Joshua: to life with working and being mom and having all 561 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: these different societal pressures. And so I took my time 562 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:56,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: with that. 563 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: When we come back, Caitlyn talk about their decision to 564 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:15,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: get pregnant again and the horrors that unfolded. So you've 565 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: made the decision that you're ready to have the second baby. 566 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,159 Emily Tisch Sussman: How quickly were you able to get pregnant? Was your 567 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: pregnancy similar to your first? Do you have those same pains? Yeah? 568 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: So, I when we finally decided that we wanted to 569 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: have a second baby, we tried for a while, and 570 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:36,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: I remember I had miscarried like once or twice before 571 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: we finally had a bible pregnancy past four weeks, to 572 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: be honest, and that was the pregnancy that I had 573 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: in I guess it was June of twenty twenty two 574 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,399 Kaitlyn Joshua: when I first found out that I was expecting, So 575 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,639 Kaitlyn Joshua: end of June, early July, and I'd called my provider's 576 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: office at the time, because, like I said in this interview, 577 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,119 Kaitlyn Joshua: I found out Aboutlauren at the doctor's office. Since I 578 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,439 Kaitlyn Joshua: was used to having that personable relationship with my provider 579 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,119 Kaitlyn Joshua: where I could just call and say, hey, this is happening, 580 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: see me, you know. And so when I called to 581 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: schedule that appointment and get seen right away, the medical 582 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: assistant the scheduler told me right away, hey, we're not 583 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: seeing people until twelve weeks. And I was not privy 584 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: to that answer. I never got that before, even with 585 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: the previous miscarriages, where I wanted to call and just 586 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: like check up on myself and make sure I was good, 587 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: and I expressed my physician what was going on. It 588 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: was always a really open relationship, like we were really 589 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: good about checking with each other. My twin sister sees 590 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: the same physician, so I would send word through him 591 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,679 Kaitlyn Joshua: her sometimes to be able to talk to him. And 592 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: I didn't recognize this new kind of door being slammed 593 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: in my face, if you will, where the scheduler was 594 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: just like, he's not going to see you till twelve weeks, 595 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:46,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: but you know, we can put you on the books. 596 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: And so that was kind of like the begetting or 597 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: kind of like foreshadowing my experience with that pregnancy. 598 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: The writing was on the wall just a few months 599 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: prior Roe v. Wade was repealed and immediately stated like 600 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: Louisiana systematically stripped away women's rights to their own bodies. 601 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 3: Today is a it's not HYPERBOLEUS exsts a very solemn moment. 602 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 3: Today the Supreme Court of the United States expressly took 603 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 3: away a constousor right from the American people that had 604 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 3: already recognized. They didn't limit it, they simply took it away. 605 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 3: It's never been done to write so important to so 606 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 3: many Americans. 607 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: Right tonight, the fallout from the Supreme Court ruling about 608 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: abortion rights is growing. 609 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: This after three straight days of protests across America. 610 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: Week, Louisiana lawmakers advanced a bill that would categorize abortion 611 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: as murderer. Persons are deemed unworthy of legal protection for 612 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: no other reason that they are not yet born. 613 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 3: Now standing up for abortion rights, some with very personal 614 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 3: reasons for showing. 615 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: Up, and I know that there will effect work in 616 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: class Black women and people more than anybody else. You've 617 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: got to show out this. The man joined his wife 618 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: and daughters. This is absolutely a human rights issue. So 619 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: when I found out I was pregnant in the summer 620 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: of twenty twenty two, called to schedule that appointment. I 621 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: did go ahead and schedule it, and I want to 622 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: clarify that that put it on the book. Said fine, 623 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, I didn't love the answer. I'd actually called 624 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: a couple providers in the area to see if somebody 625 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: else would say something different. So it's like, let me 626 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: see if everybody else doing the same thing. And so 627 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: finally my husband I made it home from work that 628 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: evening and he said, look, if you're calling around town 629 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: and everybody's saying the same thing, Caitlin, you might as 630 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: well see the provider that you know and that you 631 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: love and that you have a relationship with. So it's like, fine, 632 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: I'll put it on the books. I'll schedule it, and 633 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: that's what I did. So unfortunately write it around ten 634 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: weeks and six days. It was the day after my 635 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: daughter's birthday party. So when I woke up that next 636 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: morning and was covered in blood, like woke up in 637 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: a pool of blood, was cramping like nothing I could 638 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: describe in words. And I always say, like, I've had 639 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: two babies at this point, and the pain and severity 640 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: of that situation does not you know, does not compare 641 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: to even the labor and delivery that I have with 642 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: my son and my daughter. Like it was just it 643 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: was awful. And I decided to drive myself to a 644 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: hospital that was local to the area. They have a 645 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: women's Assessment center is what it's called at most facilities, 646 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: And so I went ahead and drove myself to that 647 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: hospital and I called Land and in the car and ironically, 648 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:21,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: I was on a zoom call. I was like, why 649 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: the hell am I working? But I told my asse. 650 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:24,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: I was like, I need to clock out and I 651 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,479 Kaitlyn Joshua: need to handle something and I'll get back on when 652 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: I can. And so I called Lane and I said, hey, 653 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: this is what's happening. I'll keep you posting. He's like, yeah, definitely. 654 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: He was like, it's probably just stressed from a birthday party. 655 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: You were, you know, kind of went crazy, was run 656 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: around town getting all these different things. You should have 657 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: took it easy, but was seen rather quickly. At that 658 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: first hospital. The physician or the nurse practitioner on staff 659 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: like brought me in to triage and you know, she's 660 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: kind of checking the service and she's like, oh, your 661 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: service is still closed. Like even though you're bleeding pretty profusely, 662 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: it doesn't mean that this pregnancy is no longer viable. 663 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: Just like let's be hopeful. And she was like, it 664 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: could be still a viable pregnancy. So I'm to send 665 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: you over to the ultrasound tech. So get to the 666 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: ultrasound tech, she said, nothing. I will never forget that. 667 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: Like literally, I'm just sitting in that room with her 668 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: for thirty minutes looking at the ceiling, and she's not 669 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: expressing what's going on, and of course like she's maneuvering 670 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: the technology across the belly with the cold jel and 671 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: not saying anything. And so I was a little discouraged 672 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: in that room. Went over to another room where they 673 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, kind of have like a little conference, if 674 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: you will, with the patients, and so no respectationer walks 675 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: over and she says, I can't really tell whether or 676 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: not you're miscaring, And I said, well, what do you mean, 677 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: Like it's pretty obvious if someone misc caring typically and 678 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: understand like you've got to wait, you know, baby heart 679 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: stop or can't you know, can't find fetal heart tones, 680 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: et cetera. But we had done all those things, so 681 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: I wanted to get clarity and she said, well, I 682 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: can't tell you if you're still pregnant or if this 683 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: is a miscarriage. We're just gonna have to wait and see. 684 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: And I said, well, each be able to express something, 685 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: and she said no, but I'm praying for you. If 686 00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,959 Kaitlyn Joshua: things get worse, you're more than we going to come 687 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: back and we can continue to check and see if 688 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, this is a viable pregnancy. But you know, 689 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: we're sending you home with prayers. And that stuck with 690 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: me till this day that she, you know, kind of 691 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: just like was avoiding eye contact. It was just like, 692 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: we're sending you home with prayers and kind of looking 693 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: at the floor and so you are you are bleeding 694 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: and they are sending you home, yeah, bleeding in there. 695 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: And I was like, and what world do people do this? 696 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: You know? I just kept thinking that, like sending me 697 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: home to do what? And my discharge papers did not 698 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, give some type of care instructions or anything. 699 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: It was just nothing. And I remember, you know, laying 700 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: in the car and saying, well, she says she can't 701 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: tell whether or not. He was like, what do you 702 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: mean like this makes sense, and it's like, well, she said, 703 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: she can't tell, we'll have to come back. 704 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: And at any point did they say to you come 705 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: back if X happens. 706 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: No, And I think that was like the wildest part 707 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: for me, or the hardest thing for me, is just 708 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: like I'm not a medical doctor. How would I know? 709 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: And and no given point did she say, you know, 710 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: if you're going through because I know, like from previous miscarriages, 711 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: if you're going this amount of through this meaning pads, 712 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: or if you're bleeding this much, these are the things 713 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:07,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: to look for. And she didn't say any of that. 714 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: She's just like, if it gets worse, if the pain 715 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:14,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: gets worse, if you're bleeding more, come back. So I 716 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: drove myself home and ended up picking up my daughter 717 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: a few hours later, picking it up from school, and 718 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, went to bed that evening and of course 719 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,319 Kaitlyn Joshua: woke up the next morning and it was worse. The 720 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: pain was worse, the amount of blood was significantly more. 721 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: And at that point, you know, I saw a mother 722 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: login can you take Lauren. She's like, I'm praying my 723 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:35,839 Kaitlyn Joshua: mom my mother in law around It was like I'm 724 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: praying for you. She's a minister so I was like, okay, 725 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: that's on brand. But she sent me out the door 726 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: with you know, this time, you shouldn't go by yourself, 727 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: like at least meet somebody out. I've got more, but 728 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: you need to get with somebody. She's like, what if 729 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: you lead out behind the wheel? Caitlin like, come on, no. 730 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: So I called my mom, who didn't even know I 731 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,319 Kaitlyn Joshua: was pregnant at the time. Now that I'm looking back, 732 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: but I called my mom and she said, what do 733 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: you I mean your pregnant. I was like, well, I 734 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,759 Kaitlyn Joshua: wasn't going to say anything till twelve weeks because you know, 735 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: I was kind of nervous as I've had previous miscarriages. 736 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: And she said, well, yeah, I'm there. I'm on the way. 737 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: And so she met me at this second hospital and 738 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: so did my husband. So I was like, okay, good, 739 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: I have two people with me to navigate this. And 740 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,359 Kaitlyn Joshua: I remember, you know, walking into the emergency room because 741 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: that's what I decided to walk into this time at 742 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: a different hospital because I knew if I went back 743 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,839 Kaitlyn Joshua: to the last one, I didn't want to deal with 744 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: her praying for me again. So I walked in and 745 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: the security guard was like, oh, my god, whoa. And 746 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: I'm sure he saw the amount of blood that I 747 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:33,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: had all over my jeans, and of course I had 748 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,759 Kaitlyn Joshua: changed before I got there, but didn't realize I'd led 749 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: through these jeans again, and so are these different set 750 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: of jeans. And so he put me in a wheelchair 751 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:42,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: because it's just like this is way too much. We 752 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:44,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: got to put you in a wheelchair. So put me 753 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: in a wheelchair, rolls me to the back, and I 754 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,919 Kaitlyn Joshua: got back there pretty quickly, didn't have any way time. 755 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: And the first person that came in was a nurse, 756 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,799 Kaitlyn Joshua: and I remember the conversation that she and I had 757 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: was absolutely riveting, like it was wild. My mom was 758 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: standing there the whole time and was out in the 759 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: hallway at this point, just kind of filling in his parents. 760 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: And she she walks in and she's like, well, you know, 761 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,839 Kaitlyn Joshua: people come in here miscaring all the time and they 762 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: think it's so much blood and they're going to bleed out, 763 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: and it's really not that bad. And she said that. 764 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,759 Kaitlyn Joshua: My mom was like, that is not comforting, Like what 765 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: are you doing? And she was just like, well, you 766 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: know a lot of times, like people misjudge the amount 767 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,319 Kaitlyn Joshua: of blood that they are losing and it's you know, 768 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,759 Kaitlyn Joshua: nothing to be alarmed about, like it's just a miscarriage potentially, 769 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: and so my mom was like, oh, okay, well we'll just 770 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: wait to hear from the physician. And ultrasound tech walks 771 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: in after that, and he was so kind. I remember 772 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: he said, you know, my wife and I have seven 773 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: children and we've had seven miscarriages. And I knew that 774 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: he was trying to like make me feel better about 775 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: what this probably was and like let me know I 776 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: could try again, and so I appreciated, you know, his comments, 777 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: but you know, he did said much more. How unlike 778 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: the last ultrasoundtech that I'd seen the previous day, he 779 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:54,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: was kind enough to just kind of engage with me 780 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: and try and keep me calm throughout. And a physician 781 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: finally walks in, and I'm thinking she's going to be 782 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: just so helpful and like, you know, provide some type 783 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: of clarity and comfort or closure, and she walks in 784 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: and she says, are you sure you were ever pregnant? 785 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: And I said, what do you mean? I was like, 786 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: I literally have not had my period in over eleven weeks, 787 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: like I know that I'm pregnant. She said, well, no, 788 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: this just looks like a cist to me. And my 789 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: mom was like, okay, this is ridiculous, like the My 790 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: husband was like, what do you mean, like assist and 791 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: she's like, well, it doesn't have a heartbeat anymore. And 792 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: I remember asking her, well, if it doesn't have a heartbeat, 793 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,399 Kaitlyn Joshua: then this is a miscarriage, and she was like, well, 794 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: we can't tell, we don't know. And I said, well, look, 795 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: I've had miscarriages before. Can I please just get a 796 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: DNC procedure or some type of medication abortion I should 797 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: be able to get something like the pain is just unbearable. 798 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,319 Kaitlyn Joshua: And she said no, we're not going to do that 799 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: at this time. We're not doing that. And at this point, 800 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: my sister's on FaceTime, Like I said, she was in 801 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: med school at the time, and she said, kay, like 802 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: they're not. She's not going to help you like these 803 00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: the laws are preventing her. She's not going to give 804 00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:02,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: you the type of kid that you're asking for. Ask 805 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: her what you should do, like what you should look 806 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: out for, and so I did and she's like, well, 807 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: you can take talent a I was like, ma'am, I've 808 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,919 Kaitlyn Joshua: been taking town all for four days I need something else, 809 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,319 Kaitlyn Joshua: Like tilen all is not you know, making me, it's 810 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: not releaving any type of pain. And so she said, look, 811 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,799 Kaitlyn Joshua: we're not doing that. Your discharge papers will have care 812 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: instructions on it and if you get worse, you could 813 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,879 Kaitlyn Joshua: always come back. And I didn't. I didn't come back 814 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,759 Kaitlyn Joshua: after that, but I remember reading my discharge papers. It 815 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: literally said take tal and all and again nothing that 816 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: was useful information to help me navigate this miscarriage. And 817 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,399 Kaitlyn Joshua: I remember after that just being so frustrated and discouraged, 818 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: and even though I kept bleeding and I kept having 819 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: the pain, and every day I'm like sweating it out, 820 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: Like this miscarriage is really wearing me out. I remember thinking, 821 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, you know what, if I don't make it 822 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: through this, and had I know what I knew now, 823 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,879 Kaitlyn Joshua: I probably would have gone back somewhere else, just because 824 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,799 Kaitlyn Joshua: I didn't think it would last as long as it did. 825 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: I literally took me. It literally took me right under 826 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: two months to fully pass that miscarriage, and like constantly 827 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,239 Kaitlyn Joshua: having a safe face for my kid, you know, wake 828 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: up every morning tatnel or leave or whatever I had 829 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: on hand. Finally getting you know, some medication that actually, 830 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, alleviate some of the pain, which wasn't done 831 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: all or leave, but like just trying to use some 832 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,320 Kaitlyn Joshua: of the resources I had available with different medical physician 833 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,959 Kaitlyn Joshua: friends I have. It was rough. It was so rough, 834 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: and I didn't want to believe that in the twenty 835 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: first century a system could let you down like this. 836 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: But that completely changed my worldview and like especially my 837 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: outlook on maternal health care in the US. It was like, 838 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: it is twenty twenty two, and I am praying that 839 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: I don't hemorrhage. I don't, you know, I want to 840 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:42,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: be here for my kid. I want to be able 841 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: to raise my daughter, and here I am like using 842 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: the internet and you know, ideas off of social media 843 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: on how to navigate a miscarriage and manage a miscarriage 844 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:58,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: excuse me, without actual medication. It was literally the worst 845 00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: part of my life. And I've I've tried to do 846 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: good job of like blacking out a lot of those 847 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: feelings and emotions just because it was just it was. 848 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: It was hard. It was really hard, for lack of 849 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:08,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: a better term. 850 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: Did she or anyone at any point articulate do you 851 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: when you would be considered hemorrhaging to the point of 852 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: life threatening or permanent damage, that they would be able 853 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:19,799 Emily Tisch Sussman: to provide you with adequate care. 854 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: No, I never got that, And it's so it's it's 855 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: frightening to think that, like people are being sent out 856 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: into the world to try and like figure this out 857 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: at home. And of course, like, not everybody's story ends happily, right, 858 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: not everybody. And we've seen the news where you know, 859 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,759 Kaitlyn Joshua: different presularly women of color and other women have been 860 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: denied the care and obviously have lost their lives as 861 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: a result of trying to navigate this on their own 862 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: and being left without any medical resources. And so yeah, 863 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:52,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: it's extremely difficult to see that in the Again, the 864 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: twenty first century and twenty twenty five were still up 865 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:59,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: against that vagueness within the law that doesn't provide for 866 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:00,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: a physician to be able to use their expertise. 867 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: Caitlin is just one of thousands of women who have 868 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: had dangerous and traumatic experiences surrounding their pregnancies. Many of 869 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: them wanted their pregnancies too, and still when their nightmare 870 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: becomes a reality and their life is at risk, these 871 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: states are preventing them from getting the care they need. 872 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: The only thing that really made sense was the loss 873 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: of the time. Obviously, this is right after the overturn 874 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:25,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: of row, and I want to make that clear just 875 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: in terms of timeline, because I'm in this situation in 876 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: the fall of twenty twenty two, and so I understand, 877 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: like I'm sure, there was confusion and chaos and probably 878 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: still is in terms of how physicians are interpretating the laws. 879 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: And we've seen that very clearly with the amount of 880 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: physicians that have come down to the capital or lobbyed 881 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: or advocated against these laws that are preventing them from 882 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: using their medical expertise. And I know in that moment, 883 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,239 Kaitlyn Joshua: just when in the language that the physician used like no, 884 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: we're not doing that at this time, No, I can't 885 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: do that, I'm not able to do that at this moment, 886 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: it definitely her fear in being able to give that 887 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: care in that moment. And of course those laws have 888 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: not changed, and so we're still seeing so many women 889 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: across the state and in all band states being denied 890 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:15,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: that very important medical care because of the fear factor. 891 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: Physicians don't want to lose their medical licenses, the licenses 892 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: they work so hard to get. And also you know 893 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,319 Kaitlyn Joshua: there's the fear of serving time for it. Right, there's 894 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: real jail time and consequences, criminal consequences to be had 895 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: should you break the laws. And I know that they 896 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: have to think about that first, which is sad. And 897 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,319 Kaitlyn Joshua: in that moment, I know that physician the fear she 898 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: had on her face, the physician and the medical provider 899 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: the day before, like not being able to look me 900 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:42,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: in the eye and just say like, I can't do 901 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:43,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: that at this moment. 902 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: Is there a difference between these procedures like a DNC 903 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: or abortion medication to be used for an abortion or 904 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: to be used for a miscarriage because there a difference 905 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: in the medication. Is there a difference of a usage. 906 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: It sounds like by that point you are already qualified 907 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: for We're just treating the mother and we're not touching abortion. 908 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: So do you know if there is a difference. 909 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:12,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: And I say, unfortunately, because that is the issue, right 910 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: There isn't a difference if you require abortion care, whether 911 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: it's a miscarriage or an elective abortion. At the end 912 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: of the day, it's still an abortion. Even though miscarriage 913 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: has the medical term of spontaneous abortion, it still doesn't 914 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: provide cover for a physician to be able to use 915 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: that expertise. But I will also say that there is 916 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: a way around it, right because we do know in 917 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: the state of Louisiana, if you cite it as miscarriage management, 918 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: even though you know a DNC procedure is still used 919 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,760 Kaitlyn Joshua: in elective abortions, it is also used for miscarriage management. 920 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: Same with mith forpristone and mysoprostal. These are medications that 921 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: are not only used for abortion care, but a myriad 922 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: of different ways and for many different illnesses and issues 923 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: related to healthcare. And so there is a way to 924 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,319 Kaitlyn Joshua: check the box that allows for a physician to use 925 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: their medical license and their discretion when needed and when necessary, 926 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,759 Kaitlyn Joshua: versus you know, explicitly saying that, explicitly stating that it's 927 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: abortion care, which flags the state to think that this 928 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,359 Kaitlyn Joshua: is an elective abortion and folks are figuring it out. 929 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: I think the frustration and the confusion comes in with 930 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: the vagueness of the law because it specifically says you 931 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,959 Kaitlyn Joshua: cannot provide this care hard stop. A lot of the 932 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: physicians that aren't necessarily well seasoned or not have been 933 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: doing it for decades have not figured out how to 934 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: again and protect themselves and their career while also putting 935 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: patient first. Whereas I've also seen other physicians that are 936 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: able to say no, I can do that and check that, 937 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,479 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, check a box of saving life of mother 938 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: without even coming up against the law and the intricacies 939 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,799 Kaitlyn Joshua: of the law. And so it is in all that 940 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:53,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: to say, I don't think, actually I know, it is 941 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: not a lack of education, because I think a lot 942 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: of times, like a certain political party likes to suspend 943 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,399 Kaitlyn Joshua: this as they just need better understanding of the law. 944 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: They just need a little bit more help in understanding 945 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: the intricacies of the law and the implications. And it's 946 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: not that it is strictly that the law does provide 947 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: for the state to use its discretion or whether or 948 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,319 Kaitlyn Joshua: not they want to prosecute or find or strip the 949 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,799 Kaitlyn Joshua: license of a physician based on their medical decision. And 950 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: so until we get rid of that exception, if you will, 951 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: we get rid of that vagueness, folks are going to 952 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: continue to operate with this patchwork of decision making. 953 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: Caitlyn's story embodies so much of what we talk about 954 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: here on She pivots how she went through something deeply 955 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: personal only to come out of it on the other side, 956 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: motivated to use that experience to pivot. Building on her 957 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: background as an organizer, Caitlyn has used her story to 958 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: advocate for other women who have been through and will 959 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: be impacted by the same harmful laws that hurt her. 960 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: She has spoken in front of the Senate. 961 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: Thank you Chairman Widen for having me, and ranking Member 962 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,399 Kaitlyn Joshua: Crepo and members of the Senate Finance Committe for having 963 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: me here today. My name is Caitlin Joshua, and I'm 964 00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: from Louisiana. I'm here to talk about my own experience 965 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: under extreme abortion bands in my home states, soon after 966 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,239 Kaitlyn Joshua: the Supreme Court eliminated the federal right to abortion care 967 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: more than two years ago, and the problems. 968 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: We stood on stage at the Democratic National Convention and 969 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:19,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: shared her story. 970 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:24,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: Two emergency rooms sent me away because of Louisiana's abortion ban. 971 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,759 Kaitlyn Joshua: No one would confirm that I was miscaring. I was 972 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: in pain, bleading so much. My husband feared for my life. 973 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: No woman should experience what I endured, but too many have. 974 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: They write to me saying, what happened to you, happened 975 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:42,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: to me. 976 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: Sometimes It has turned her pain into purpose as the 977 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,799 Emily Tisch Sussman: co creator of Abortion in America, which she created alongside 978 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: the late Cecil Richards. 979 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: Journey this year and beyond. And the scope is kind 980 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:55,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: of large, and a lot of folks have asked me, like, 981 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: what is the goal of abortion in America? It's kind 982 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: of old one. We want a play and space in 983 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:02,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: which these stories live well beyond the twenty four hour 984 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: news cycle, because we saw even like with elections, right, 985 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: like people come and go on these issues, and where 986 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: are we making sure that these stories are housed and 987 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: live forever? And most importantly helped thems like identify that 988 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: it you know, well sourced storytellers that want to share 989 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:19,840 Kaitlyn Joshua: your story, that want to get the word out ultimately 990 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,239 Kaitlyn Joshua: change hearts and minds, which is what we know we 991 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,759 Kaitlyn Joshua: got to do to change policy right and to change 992 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: the real impacts that the word based there and helping 993 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: people navigate their state and you know, their states apportion 994 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: bands and understanding the implications that it has on their 995 00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: own health. And this is really where I feel like 996 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: to get two religious on y'all, But like where the 997 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: Lord wants me, you know, and I always like, you know, 998 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: pray about that and think about that, like where should 999 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: I be? How can I be? Making change in someone 1000 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,439 Kaitlyn Joshua: else's life, And had it not been for me going 1001 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: through that terrible low point in my life, it would 1002 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:53,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: not have led me to this high point of being 1003 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: able to be a helper, which is so important to me. 1004 00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: We have a lot of listeners of reproductive age. 1005 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: Do you think that as they're finding an OBI that 1006 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: works for them, as they try to become pregnant or 1007 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: become pregnant, that they should ask this question about you know, 1008 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,319 Emily Tisch Sussman: sort of push the doctor like, you know, what would 1009 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: you do in this scenario? Like is that something that's 1010 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: happening now? I mean it's it's puts the onus on 1011 00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: the scared pregnant person, which is insane, it is, Yeah, 1012 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: And is it stayed by state at this point? Like 1013 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: what can someone do to navigate this if they're in 1014 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:24,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: this situation in this moment. 1015 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: Yeah. I love that question because I think about it 1016 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:29,919 Kaitlyn Joshua: often and I even thought about it with my son. 1017 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: The first question I asked my medical provider when I 1018 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: walked in the room, and in fact, she finished the sentence. 1019 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: So I decided to go an hour away, which sounds crazy, 1020 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,319 Kaitlyn Joshua: but I decided to go an hour away for my 1021 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: pregnancy with Liam, my one and a half year old, 1022 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: because I did not want to be seen by the 1023 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: medical providers or kind of operate within the medical system, 1024 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: healthcare system and band rouge because I had been failed 1025 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: by them, right and not to hold a grudge, but 1026 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: like it is what it is, and I knew that 1027 00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: if we were talking about my life or potentially what 1028 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: happened throughout my pregnancy, I wanted to be under the 1029 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,759 Kaitlyn Joshua: care of someone who would act immediately to save my life, 1030 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:07,960 Kaitlyn Joshua: who would not have to try and you know, navigate 1031 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: a specific law or not want to use their expertise 1032 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: in training for fear of criminalization. And so for me, 1033 00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,240 Kaitlyn Joshua: that was the first thing I did. I researched medical 1034 00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: providers in the state that believes in abortion care, that 1035 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, utilized the full aspect of reproductive health care. 1036 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,359 Kaitlyn Joshua: And I landed in New Orleans, which is an hour 1037 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: from my house, and even my sister at the time, 1038 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,839 Kaitlyn Joshua: she helped me research, particularly women of color physicians or 1039 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,279 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know women in general. Home. I mean, ironically, I 1040 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:36,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: ended up with an awesome white lady who was so progressive 1041 00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: and so liberal in her worldview. We have such a 1042 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: deficit of black doctors in the Saita Louisiana. Everybody's trying 1043 00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:44,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: to get in with them, right, like, you don't we 1044 00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:46,879 Kaitlyn Joshua: have such few of them, and so I couldn't get 1045 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:48,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: in with the one that I really wanted, and so 1046 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,880 Kaitlyn Joshua: I researched one more and landed with this physician in 1047 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:53,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: New Orleans. And the first thing I asked her when 1048 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: I walked through the door was do you believe in 1049 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: abortion care? And to finish my sentence, she was like, look, 1050 00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: not only do we believe in abortion care, we operate, 1051 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,360 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, with our full scope of work. Within the 1052 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: full scope of our work, I utilize my extraduc in 1053 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: training to whatever degree that I need to use it 1054 00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: if it means saving my patience, and we will always, 1055 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:11,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: you know, act with that first. And she even had 1056 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: a pin on her her scrubs that was like abortion care. 1057 00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:16,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: And I was like, yes, I'm in the right place. 1058 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: And so to that, I say, yes, you have to be. 1059 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,280 Kaitlyn Joshua: And not to say, like everybody has like the privilege 1060 00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: to be able to go hour away and lose time 1061 00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: on work and like technically going an hour ways like 1062 00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,480 Kaitlyn Joshua: what three hours off the clock, and so not to 1063 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: say you have to go to that, you know, grave 1064 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: of length, but grade of length, but certainly do your homework, 1065 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: ask that question, and if you don't like your answer, 1066 00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:40,000 Kaitlyn Joshua: you need you very well sure better find someone else 1067 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: because your life is too valuable. And I think it's 1068 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,440 Kaitlyn Joshua: important for us to center women and birthing people in 1069 00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: this conversation. A lot of times we just hear about baby, 1070 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,680 Kaitlyn Joshua: but we're important too, and it's important that we have 1071 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,600 Kaitlyn Joshua: physicians that are making sure that we are Our health 1072 00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:57,239 Kaitlyn Joshua: is paramount when they're practicing. And there's nothing wrong with 1073 00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: asking all the questions, doing your research and making sure 1074 00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:01,640 Kaitlyn Joshua: that you're in good hands. 1075 00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: What is something It could be somethove talked about before, 1076 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: or something different, something that at one point you saw 1077 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,319 Emily Tisch Sussman: as a low point, but now you see it as 1078 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: having really been formative to who you are today. 1079 00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,080 Kaitlyn Joshua: I would have to say navigating my miscarriage. It was 1080 00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,839 Kaitlyn Joshua: such a low point in my life, and I will 1081 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,800 Kaitlyn Joshua: be honest, like it changed so much of my relationship 1082 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: with my husband. We both had to go to therapy, 1083 00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,120 Kaitlyn Joshua: were both still in therapy, and my husband for a 1084 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:29,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: while had turned to some really unhealthy habits. And it 1085 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,719 Kaitlyn Joshua: was such a difficult moment. Because folks, of course, like here, 1086 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:34,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: they may hear about your miscarriage. They may not, but 1087 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,920 Kaitlyn Joshua: they definitely don't see the aftermath and kind of the 1088 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,040 Kaitlyn Joshua: domino effect of going through something so traumatic. And so 1089 00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,319 Kaitlyn Joshua: I would definitely say that was the lowest point in 1090 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: my life and for the people around me, was probably 1091 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: difficult for them, having to navigate the new Caitlin, the 1092 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: new Land and after coming you know, on the other 1093 00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,560 Kaitlyn Joshua: side of it. And so definitely lowest point. And I 1094 00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,239 Kaitlyn Joshua: would say, ironically like it kind of like led me 1095 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,200 Kaitlyn Joshua: to a high point, which is in this moment where 1096 00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,839 Kaitlyn Joshua: I'm at advocating for women's healthcare. Do you think you'll 1097 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,239 Kaitlyn Joshua: pivot again? I do. I think I will pivot again, 1098 00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,439 Kaitlyn Joshua: but I won't leave behind reproductive health care. What I'm 1099 00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,879 Kaitlyn Joshua: doing with it, or how I show up to the work. 1100 00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:17,160 Kaitlyn Joshua: They look different, but I certainly feel like this is 1101 00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,520 Kaitlyn Joshua: my life's mission and goal to make sure that I'm 1102 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: amplifying black maternal health care and reproductive healthcare in general. 1103 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,400 Kaitlyn Joshua: Thank you so much, Caitlin. 1104 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:32,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: Of course, Caitlyn still lives in Louisiana with her husband 1105 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: and two children, and it's continuing to advocate for reproductive freedom. 1106 00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: As the co creator of abortion in America that is 1107 00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: providing real stories about the devastating impact of the abortion 1108 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: band and how those restrictions pose a threat to the 1109 00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: well being of all pregnant women. If you want to 1110 00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:50,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: spread the word and share these stories, you can visit 1111 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,799 Emily Tisch Sussman: their website at Abortionanamerica dot org. You can also stay 1112 00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:58,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: up to date with Caitlin on her Instagram at katet Joshua. 1113 00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:03,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to this episode of 1114 00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: she Pivots. I hope you enjoyed it, and if you did, 1115 00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: leave us a rating and tell your friends about us. 1116 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram 1117 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: at she pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our 1118 00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content 1119 00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:26,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: on our website at she pivots thepodcast dot com. This 1120 00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: episode was produced and edited by Emily Atavelosk, with sound 1121 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: editing and mixing from Nina Pollock, Audio production and social 1122 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:39,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: media by Hannah Cousins, research by Christine Dickinson, and logistics 1123 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:43,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: and planning by Emma Stopic and Kendall Krupkin. She Pivots 1124 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: is proud to be a part of the iHeart Podcast Network. 1125 00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:49,720 Kaitlyn Joshua: I endorse she Pivots