Speaker 1: That's how we are. Once again, we have another one
Speaker 1: of our friends were I wouldn't even say friends, our sister,
Speaker 1: our comrade, conflicts, our partners in justice, Tiffany Dina Lofton.
Speaker 1: She is the immediate past national director of the n
Speaker 1: double A CP Youth in College. She's also one of
Speaker 1: our biggest advisors that until freedom, and she's the senior
Speaker 1: advisor at Grassroots Law Projects. Welcome to the show. Finally, Dina,
Speaker 1: I don't even call it Tiffany, I call it Dina.
Speaker 1: What's going on? I can't believe you haven't been on
Speaker 1: our show. That's like crazy, Like I thought you were
Speaker 1: one of the first. We had all of Stephen Green,
Speaker 1: Leslie Redman, we had all of our um young leading
Speaker 1: organizers on at one point. I had no idea that
Speaker 1: you had been with us. But I guess today is
Speaker 1: the right time. Today is the day. Today is the
Speaker 1: day slow, It's day we've been working out here. So
Speaker 1: I'm just honored to be on the show. And even
Speaker 1: if I'm not on the show, I with y'all in person,
Speaker 1: so and I've met I've done better at that, And
Speaker 1: I think that's what it is. You with us so
Speaker 1: much that we assume that you on the show. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like Tiffany been there. I thought
Speaker 1: you was a three pot times I was with y'all
Speaker 1: on the studio, I just wasn't on the screen. But
Speaker 1: here we got here, Like Tiffany is the show, you
Speaker 1: are the show. You are the work. Thank you, sir,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. You know as much as we
Speaker 1: love you, and we we we you know, we could
Speaker 1: do a little small talk all the time. Right now,
Speaker 1: we have serious business and you here to give us
Speaker 1: some updates, you know about brother Julius and um, what's
Speaker 1: what's currently going on? And I've here there's a lot
Speaker 1: of little things going you know, some negative, some were
Speaker 1: positive as of late. So give us some updates. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start with this top headline. Elections are so
Speaker 1: damn important, y'all. Elections are so damn important. So, uh,
Speaker 1: today is Thursday. We're on Monday. I flew from Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. To Oklahoma City anticipating Julius's clemency hearing that
Speaker 1: was going to take place at nine am. When I
Speaker 1: landed around nine pm on that Monday, I got my
Speaker 1: phone was blowing up telling me that the coming to
Speaker 1: hearing had been postponed, and I was trying to figure
Speaker 1: out why. In two thousand and fifteen, the state of
Speaker 1: Oklahoma halted all of its executions. It is that it
Speaker 1: is one of the deadliest states, and I think it's
Speaker 1: the second, but it's one of the deadliest states in
Speaker 1: um when it comes to the death penalty. There were
Speaker 1: a couple of botched executions that took place in What
Speaker 1: that means is and so I need people to breathe.
Speaker 1: This is really howvy to talk about. What that means
Speaker 1: is that they issued two executions through lethal injection, but
Speaker 1: the cocktail of the lethal injection didn't work and so
Speaker 1: people suffered before they died. So Oklahoma stopped the executions
Speaker 1: in twenty five. Team Julius is one of seven people.
Speaker 1: Julius Jones is one of seven people who is now
Speaker 1: scheduled on death row to be executed between now, which
Speaker 1: was supposed to be today, with the first being John,
Speaker 1: a gentleman named John Grant, until March of next year.
Speaker 1: There are seven people on that list and that roster.
Speaker 1: The state of Oklahoma is now saying we're just going
Speaker 1: to continue these executions. Nothing has happened since until now
Speaker 1: they're just saying we want to continue them. But they
Speaker 1: went to these seven people on death row and said
Speaker 1: to them, if we can't do the legal injection because
Speaker 1: it doesn't work, how else do you want to be killed?
Speaker 1: M hm wow. Six out of the seven of them said,
Speaker 1: f you. You're not going to make me choose my
Speaker 1: way to commit suicide. And it is actually against my
Speaker 1: religious beliefs to commit suicide. So I'm not giving you
Speaker 1: that that that that easy way out. On September, the
Speaker 1: Pardoning Parole Board, who are people appointed by the governor
Speaker 1: and the governor is selected by the people. They passed
Speaker 1: a decision and recommendation to the governor basically saying, keep
Speaker 1: Julius alive with the possibility of roll, don't kill him.
Speaker 1: We have evidence that that proves that he could be innocent. Now,
Speaker 1: the partner of rollboard is not a court or jury.
Speaker 1: It's just a partner of role board. So only power
Speaker 1: that they the only power that they have is to
Speaker 1: issue a recommendation to the governor. The governor looked at
Speaker 1: that recommendation and said, I'm not going to make this decision.
Speaker 1: Y'all go back and have an entire hearing and do
Speaker 1: it again. There's a couple of reasons why he could
Speaker 1: have did that. My personal belief is he's been too
Speaker 1: much of a punk to make a decision when he
Speaker 1: could easily at any moment in time sign a piece
Speaker 1: of paper stopping this entire process and freeing Julius and
Speaker 1: making sure he's home for the holidays. The governor has
Speaker 1: not done that yet. He keeps putting the blame and
Speaker 1: trying to redirect it so the partner of role board
Speaker 1: can now have that responsibility. He does not want to
Speaker 1: make that decision. So a lot of stuff has happened
Speaker 1: since then that we can talk about later. But where
Speaker 1: we're at right now is because of because of the
Speaker 1: protest that those seven p people took. Excuse me, six
Speaker 1: out of the seven people took saying don't kill me.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be killed. You better figure this out.
Speaker 1: There was a lawsuit on the state of Oklahoma that
Speaker 1: went to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court said, go
Speaker 1: ahead and continue with the executions. Since they don't since
Speaker 1: they didn't find another way, they didn't didn't tell us
Speaker 1: how else they want to be killed, go ahead and
Speaker 1: do lethal injection. Then we were worried about that, and
Speaker 1: so then we found out that the Tenth Circuit, because
Speaker 1: it got challenged, the Tenth Circuit, which is the regional
Speaker 1: court of that area that which Oklahoma is a part of,
Speaker 1: said no, no, no on all y'all acting crazy over
Speaker 1: there in Oklahoma, no execution stop it. This has been
Speaker 1: a this has been a game, and it's been really
Speaker 1: hard as somebody who's organized just supporting the local members
Speaker 1: on the ground, supporting the family, both Antoinette Jones and
Speaker 1: uh mom I called Mama Jones, but Madeline Jones, Mama Jones,
Speaker 1: and their brother and their dad, and especially Julius who's
Speaker 1: been on death watch for over a week listening to
Speaker 1: these different reports come in at any point in time,
Speaker 1: Am I gonna get killed? I'm not gonna killed, You're
Speaker 1: gonna kill me, I'm not gonna kill me. It's been
Speaker 1: an emotional rold coaster for the family, for the community,
Speaker 1: and especially for Julius. Where we're at right now is
Speaker 1: because that Tenth Circuit said, don't kill nobody. The Attorney
Speaker 1: General he has now tried to challenge that decision of
Speaker 1: the Tenth Circuit court and we are waiting for that
Speaker 1: response because of that challenge from the Attorney General General O'Connor.
Speaker 1: Today was October. There was a gentleman by the name
Speaker 1: of John Grant was scheduled to be executed. Today he
Speaker 1: is on pause. Julius Jones. He has a set execution
Speaker 1: day for November eighteen. Because that ted circuit said no
Speaker 1: one more executions. November eighteenth has been canceled. That is
Speaker 1: a victory, but it's not the long term victory. We
Speaker 1: want Julius to be free. Right If the November eighteenth
Speaker 1: is canceled, he stays in prison for the rest of
Speaker 1: his life. The only two opportunities we have right now
Speaker 1: to say Julius and get him home is one again
Speaker 1: the General has excuse me, the Governor has to sign
Speaker 1: the permission for him to be released, not just on
Speaker 1: his own accord, but his own board. His partner in
Speaker 1: parole board said this is the right thing to do,
Speaker 1: so he should sign that and go with their recommendation.
Speaker 1: Or Julius has a scheduled hearing, the clemency hearing that
Speaker 1: got rescheduled on November one, which is this coming Monday.
Speaker 1: We need that clemency hearing to happen so that Julius
Speaker 1: can tell his story for the first time, so that
Speaker 1: people can so that we can hear what his alibi,
Speaker 1: what he was at home with his family when the
Speaker 1: murder happened. We have to be able to have the
Speaker 1: witnesses and the information and the stuff that was not
Speaker 1: shared the first time twenty one years ago, when Julius
Speaker 1: had his first case and his attorneys didn't have any
Speaker 1: experience running a capital murder case or dealing with anybody
Speaker 1: on death row. We are calling for November one to happen.
Speaker 1: For that hearing to take place, we need the Governor's
Speaker 1: Pardner in Parole Board to happen. It is not up
Speaker 1: to the Partner in Parole Board if that's going to
Speaker 1: happen on the first it's up to the Executive director.
Speaker 1: His name is Tom Bates, and it's upt to the
Speaker 1: General Council of the Partner in Parole Board. So we
Speaker 1: need those two solutions to happen right now. We need
Speaker 1: that hearing on Monday, and we need the governor to
Speaker 1: take action immediately so that Julius can come home and
Speaker 1: so that the Paul that the Paul excuse me, Paul
Speaker 1: Howell's family, who was the man who was killed his
Speaker 1: family can can be at ease and rest and recover
Speaker 1: because we are praying for his family to what happened
Speaker 1: to his family, what happened to him is not okay.
Speaker 1: But we also don't want them to kill another innocent
Speaker 1: man and call that justice just because we need the
Speaker 1: governor and we need the partner of World Board to
Speaker 1: do the right thing. But but I'm under the understanding
Speaker 1: that Mr. Howell's family does not support the support they be.
Speaker 1: They do not support Julius being released. They do not
Speaker 1: support that. No, they do not accurate, Yes, ma'am that
Speaker 1: they do not. They believe they believe that even with
Speaker 1: all the evidence, all the information that has released over
Speaker 1: the last several years, but certainly most recently, all the
Speaker 1: work that has happened in the state of Oklahoma, even
Speaker 1: knowing because I I've actually watched information get out there
Speaker 1: about the person that is actually what that that is
Speaker 1: alleged to be for um Mr Howell's murder. Even with
Speaker 1: all of that, the family is saying they still think
Speaker 1: Julius should be held and executed or just held. It's
Speaker 1: I've watched two interviews Oklahoma's media. They've had two interviews.
Speaker 1: I have watched them to make us say that they
Speaker 1: want him to be held and executed. That is what
Speaker 1: I've heard latest from the Hower family. Yes, it's just
Speaker 1: so unfortunate man, just being being a victim of the
Speaker 1: injustice system. Just understanding how they get it wrong. Just
Speaker 1: understand how you can be falsely accused and sitting in
Speaker 1: just several times for a crime that you do and
Speaker 1: commit right to know that there's a brother and and
Speaker 1: he's not the only brother. And throughout history we found
Speaker 1: out that people sitting on death row should have never
Speaker 1: been on even in prison. And to see that we
Speaker 1: still have a justice system that when there is even
Speaker 1: a shred or doubt that someone committed a crime, is
Speaker 1: willing to put someone to death. Is so is mind
Speaker 1: body gun? To me? Like, it doesn't if someone else
Speaker 1: admits to a crime that you're about to take someone's
Speaker 1: life for that in itself should at least say we're
Speaker 1: not taking this, you know. And and and the fact
Speaker 1: that that is not the process is the fact that
Speaker 1: that doesn't immediately happen to me. It's just like who
Speaker 1: created these lads? Who what you know? They said that
Speaker 1: the lord is supposed to before the people by the
Speaker 1: people what people sat down and came up with this
Speaker 1: process and said that this made sense some very sick people.
Speaker 1: I earned a lot. So I've been doing organizing work
Speaker 1: for the last twelve years this I've worked on a
Speaker 1: lot of cases to free people who were about to
Speaker 1: be executed. I've never been this close to the family,
Speaker 1: and I've spoken to Julius um there. There are two
Speaker 1: sick things that have come up for me in this case.
Speaker 1: One is I don't understand why if somebody in this case,
Speaker 1: Julius Jones. I don't understand why if Julius Jones had
Speaker 1: a hearing that was scheduled so that he could testify,
Speaker 1: so that they can sort out the evidence and make
Speaker 1: a recommendation to the governor, I don't understand why then
Speaker 1: the warden of Oklahoma State Penitentiary where he is currently sitting,
Speaker 1: would put him on deathwatch before his hearing took place.
Speaker 1: It's mind boggling to me. When you are about to
Speaker 1: be on death watch, they ask you the most sickening questions.
Speaker 1: What do you want your last meal to be? Who
Speaker 1: do you want to hold your hand when you do it?
Speaker 1: Who do you want to witness the execut u shan
Speaker 1: psychologically what that can do to somebody. And then they
Speaker 1: lock you underneath the jail in a little cold cell
Speaker 1: and they feed you food through the door. But you
Speaker 1: have you have a fifty fifty possibility because you just
Speaker 1: got a recommendation to the governor to keep you alive.
Speaker 1: So why they we put you on death watch? To
Speaker 1: begin with? Is stick itting to me and to your point,
Speaker 1: my son about policies and who makes these rules? That
Speaker 1: was the warden's decision, and the warden is not elected.
Speaker 1: Then I'm trying to understand why we even do the
Speaker 1: death penalty to begin with, right, why is that even
Speaker 1: still a thing that states that people that that systems
Speaker 1: We we know, we know that there are people who
Speaker 1: have been executed who were innocent, and we still do it.
Speaker 1: We know that there are other ways. We have talked
Speaker 1: about restorative justice in this injustice system, and and that
Speaker 1: executing people actually doesn't stop crying. So there is a
Speaker 1: whole entire conversation we need to have. And I and
Speaker 1: I have learned so much and been challenged so much.
Speaker 1: I have lost sleep, I've had nightmares. I've been praying
Speaker 1: very hard for Julius. This is not weak because we
Speaker 1: didn't do this. Ship can I cind of start? We
Speaker 1: didn't do this, But the people who made these decisions,
Speaker 1: to your point, my son, are some cruel, sick and
Speaker 1: devilish people. How you can't even do that to me
Speaker 1: is like I don't understand who. I don't even understand
Speaker 1: how if you're human, I don't get it. I don't understand.
Speaker 1: It's torture and it's disgusting, and it happens to our
Speaker 1: people the most. So unbelievable. Do you ask me? Man?
Speaker 1: I've been watching this case, you know, and watching you
Speaker 1: you know, people are real close to me or you know,
Speaker 1: this is one of his close friends, and just see
Speaker 1: that that is taken, you know, and it's not even
Speaker 1: this is not even somebody that I physically no, but
Speaker 1: just watching it through y'all and just just having a
Speaker 1: heart as a human being, it's like, damn, this man's
Speaker 1: life is on the verge of being taken for something
Speaker 1: that more than likely, you know, there is evidence that
Speaker 1: says that he didn't do that's right, and since he's
Speaker 1: been incresirated, so he went to jail when he was nineteen,
Speaker 1: he's forty one now at this point, he's been in
Speaker 1: jail longer than he's been alive for something that he
Speaker 1: didn't do and wasn't even act And so to take
Speaker 1: his life, that means he lived nineteen years because it's
Speaker 1: like we're talking about taking his life in the execution sense, right,
Speaker 1: but to take his life and to lock him up,
Speaker 1: he's been in there since he was nineteen and what
Speaker 1: and so so one he's been held wrong right like
Speaker 1: that he wasn't supposed to be in the begin with
Speaker 1: his His future has been taken from him. And if
Speaker 1: he has any small chance of a future after this,
Speaker 1: which is dependent on the work that we all do,
Speaker 1: so quick, uh call to action to folks. We need
Speaker 1: folks to go visit free Julius Jones dot com. That
Speaker 1: is where folks can make phone calls to the people
Speaker 1: are asking how can I help, how can I help?
Speaker 1: Say this black man. We need folks to go visit
Speaker 1: free Julius Jones dot com so that they can make
Speaker 1: phone calls not only to the governor, but to the
Speaker 1: executive director and that General Council that I was talking about.
Speaker 1: That window was very very very very small we had
Speaker 1: between now and Monday, and if uh we do win that,
Speaker 1: or if we do not win that and the Attorney
Speaker 1: General wins his case by contesting with the tent circuit did,
Speaker 1: then they will proceed with an execution. Mm hmm. So
Speaker 1: this is not like we've got all the options are
Speaker 1: still on the table, but the window that we have
Speaker 1: is a lot smaller, right, we have between now and
Speaker 1: November eighteen. Now we've got between now and whenever that
Speaker 1: Attorney General response comes back, and we don't know when
Speaker 1: that is. That can come out tonight, right, um, And
Speaker 1: so we have that smaller window. But I I do
Speaker 1: I want folks to go to free Julius Jones dot com.
Speaker 1: I want folks to follow the Grassroslot project. I want
Speaker 1: to shout out until freedom followed. The support that y'all
Speaker 1: have been doing, both in front of the scenes and
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. Folks don't understand how we always organized
Speaker 1: that we'd be getting stuff done. But even on your
Speaker 1: social media page and the work that y'all have been
Speaker 1: doing in phone call you'll have been making have helped
Speaker 1: make that useful, have helped push the envelopes so that
Speaker 1: the governor can pay attention. Because the thing that we
Speaker 1: know ahead it's interesting that you say that because I've
Speaker 1: sat by, and you know, people all why to meet
Speaker 1: Mallory always have something to say, well why doesn't So
Speaker 1: sometimes I just sit by and I said, Okay, let
Speaker 1: me just you know, play my role, be in the background,
Speaker 1: do the things, find the scenes. But I realized that
Speaker 1: if I didn't say anything on social media and rev
Speaker 1: up our audience, if you will, the people who listen
Speaker 1: to and support us, it would just be days that
Speaker 1: go by and Julius would need to be mentioned other
Speaker 1: than class fools law page. You know. Of course, Shaun
Speaker 1: King has talked about him, um, you know, several times,
Speaker 1: and you see some of the same people out there advocating.
Speaker 1: But the folks who claimed that we all are overwhelming,
Speaker 1: and we are co opting, and we're all of these things,
Speaker 1: they have not done one thing to bring attention to
Speaker 1: this situation and to try to fight to save Julius's lives.
Speaker 1: And the reason why they can't do that is because
Speaker 1: they spend so much time focused on trying to tear
Speaker 1: other people down that they are not even they don't
Speaker 1: have any goal. Because to me, Julius Jones is probably
Speaker 1: one of the most important issues of our time right,
Speaker 1: not because friends and family that we know have come
Speaker 1: to us, but no, we know the facts, we understand
Speaker 1: the story, and yet there are many days that Julius
Speaker 1: is not even being mentioned by some of the same
Speaker 1: people who have so much to say about us. And
Speaker 1: I recently saw you online saying that one you don't
Speaker 1: know everything, and too you shouldn't spend your life talking
Speaker 1: about other people. And I know that the work sort
Speaker 1: of at times, all of the energy, the negative energy
Speaker 1: especially can get you down, especially you while you're also
Speaker 1: working with someone who's on death row dealing with his family.
Speaker 1: It's a lie or Rolland for those people who don't know,
Speaker 1: we keep mentioning him, but we haven't said or Rolland
Speaker 1: who is our friend who's also um a coach within
Speaker 1: the n B a UM he works very closely in
Speaker 1: terms of training um UH athletes, not just in the
Speaker 1: NBA the NFL, and he also has a youth organization
Speaker 1: where he trains young people as well. And he's our brother.
Speaker 1: UM you know he said to me one day I
Speaker 1: called and he said, in his heart he believes that
Speaker 1: julius life is going to be saved. And I want
Speaker 1: to believe that also. But if for some reason this
Speaker 1: system does not do what it is supposed to do.
Speaker 1: You should just know, Tiffany, that the world will acknowledge
Speaker 1: eventually how hard you went for Julius and how much
Speaker 1: um it became your own story, like you know, not
Speaker 1: just something you're working on. But I see you and
Speaker 1: your own leadership developed, been and growing, and so I
Speaker 1: just want to make sure to give you your flowers
Speaker 1: on street politicians and make sure you know that your
Speaker 1: loved and appreciate it. And that means so much to
Speaker 1: me coming from y'all as people. That two things that
Speaker 1: you said, one that means so much to me because
Speaker 1: everybody that we don't know can talk about us, but
Speaker 1: what really matters the people that do know us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I also know that if at any point I
Speaker 1: am stepping out of line, which has happened before, but
Speaker 1: the people that love me and the people that got
Speaker 1: my back are the ones that I can go to
Speaker 1: who will tell me the truth. And so to even
Speaker 1: have and this is not to reverence you in my
Speaker 1: son in any different way, right, but but to have
Speaker 1: people that I look up to and people who I
Speaker 1: feel like I've done this work genuinely even though they
Speaker 1: get dragged even though they get talked about. And folks
Speaker 1: don't always recognize this, But to me goause most of
Speaker 1: the nine percent of the time, y'all get asked to
Speaker 1: come and do this work. You don't just go on
Speaker 1: everybody's business and show up and say I'm gonna help
Speaker 1: you and save the world. People at I think for
Speaker 1: Sean King, people called Sean to say, hey, can you
Speaker 1: help with the Julius Jones case. This wasn't him popping
Speaker 1: up and I wanted to help. He actually tried to
Speaker 1: avoid it because he knows that people talk cracked about
Speaker 1: him all the time. And I know that that struggle
Speaker 1: as a leader is hard, and so it's I have
Speaker 1: been nervous right to say, Okay, well people, what the
Speaker 1: people gonna say, But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: exactly what you said to me, because it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: what people say. I'm doing God's work. God asked me
Speaker 1: to be here. God put me here. I've been praying
Speaker 1: since I left the end of a a CP to
Speaker 1: do work that really really mattered to me. And this
Speaker 1: is the work that really really matters. And it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter what anybody else thinks, because anybody else gonna fly
Speaker 1: to Oklahoma and yell at the governor organize a protest.
Speaker 1: Talked to Julius on the phone, who also believes that
Speaker 1: he will be saved. Julius doesn't believe he's going to die.
Speaker 1: I spoken to Julius. Julius says, listen, I believe and
Speaker 1: I have prayed that I'm going to be here, but
Speaker 1: that this is this is about me, and God is
Speaker 1: using me for a bigger cause. And if Julius, if
Speaker 1: Julius on death broke, can say that to me, then
Speaker 1: I have no other choice but to do the work.
Speaker 1: So that means a lot. To thank you for my flowers.
Speaker 1: I love you. That's right, Roses boucare Roses well, Tiffany,
Speaker 1: it was you know, it's a pleasure to have you
Speaker 1: is always a pleasure. Like she said, the work you're
Speaker 1: doing is definitely God's work. I gotta get you your
Speaker 1: guard's work hat because you gotta wear it, you know.
Speaker 1: But um, we love you, man, continue to fight. We
Speaker 1: we're praying for Julius. We're fighting for Julius, and like
Speaker 1: you said, we believe that God is gonna do what
Speaker 1: he does man, and he would definitely be free and
Speaker 1: he would be back where he's supposed to be. Man.
Speaker 1: So let's just from God's is, from our mouth to
Speaker 1: God's is. Yeah, Man, alright, Peece, Tiffany, thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: Love you too.