1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. We're back live and direct. 4 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: We're doing well. I hope you're doing the same. Let's 5 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: give a shout out to Mr Max Williams, first of 6 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: his name. He's kissing the sky there. Love it, love 7 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: the energy. They call me ben Uh Noel, you're in. 8 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: You're in the office today. I always always love when 9 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: any of us gets a chance to record there. Yeah, yeah, 10 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: I mean it's sort of like the tiny little sweatbox 11 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: studio at the office, which, um, we're moving offices and 12 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: I think we may have mentioned before, so it's a 13 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: little sad and decrepit now, but it is kind of cool. 14 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: I don't know that the air conditionings on. I've just 15 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: now I got a sudden sense of suffocation. I will 16 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: power through. Well, thank you for your service. I I 17 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: think that this is Yeah. I think you're right, because 18 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: I've been I've been hanging out at the office a 19 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: lot for various endeavors, most of which aren't sketchy. And yeah, 20 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 1: I think the a C is shut down. Somebody queue up, boys, 21 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: the men hard to say goodbye to yesterday. Well, we're 22 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: going to We're going to a better place, and we're 23 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: actually going to a better thing. It's not like doing 24 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: kind of situation like when your parents told you about 25 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: your dog. No, we're actually going to a new office. 26 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 1: Would that be messed up if we like just committed 27 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: like company wide simultaneous suicide. Uh that Why don't I 28 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: go dark like that? That's so I don't know what's 29 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: wrong with me? This is this the heat? That's the heat? 30 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: Excuse me, it's going to my brain. Oh, you know, 31 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: everybody collectively is is in a weird place. I think 32 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: if someone tried that at office, it would be grounds 33 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: for revolution. I agree. We are all kind of collectively 34 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: technically committing long term suicide at the same time. That's 35 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: just called living. Yeah, life is a terminal condition for now. 36 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: But here's here's hopie medical science gives us a new 37 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: answer to that. That's also another threat with today's episode. 38 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: Today's episode, it is is about a physician, and it 39 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: is about a revolution, a little thing we call the 40 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: American Revolution here in the United States. It's probably called 41 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: like the Peasant Uprising or something in the UK. It's 42 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: so diminutive whatever. You know. They they're they're a bunch 43 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: of posh uh folks over there. They have their own perspective, 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: you know. On what do we always say, one side's 45 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: freedom fighters, the other side's terrorists. Well, in this situation, 46 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 1: the Americans were terrorists, you know, through and through one 47 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: of these terrorists a kind named Joseph Warren was a 48 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: very respected doctor of the time. This was in the 49 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: seventeen sixties to the seventeen seventies, when he was active 50 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 1: not only as an admired and respected physician, but also 51 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: as what his side would have called the patriots. He 52 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: was a central figure in the American Revolution. In the 53 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: title of this episode of Dr Joseph Warren Forgotten hero 54 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: of the American Revolution. And I would tend to agree, 55 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: I'd never really heard of the man. There's a lot 56 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 1: of things that he was instrumental in that we absolutely 57 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: all would have heard of, and we're going to get 58 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: into that shortly. But the man himself was totally lost, 59 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: at least to my experience of history. I don't know 60 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: about you guys, but um was not like a big 61 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: red letter item you know, in history class. For me. Yeah, yeah, 62 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: it's weird too, because you know, here in the States, 63 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: when school children are taught about the American Revolution, you 64 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: get the same big names pretty constantly, right, George Washington, 65 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: other founding fathers, you know, of course, Paul Revere, things 66 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: like that. If you live in a part of the 67 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: country where you know one of the famous people from 68 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: your town was involved in the Revolution, you might you're 69 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: about that. But chances are if you're an average school 70 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: kids who didn't live in the area of Roxbury, Massachusetts, 71 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: you may not have heard of Joseph Warren born leven 72 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: seventeen forty one. He's the eldest of four kids. He 73 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: is actually Joseph Warren the second. His father, also Joseph Warren, 74 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: was a farmer. And from these, you know, not super 75 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: patrician means Joseph Warren the younger managed to make a 76 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: big splash in the world of academia. He went to 77 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: Harvard at the age of fourteen. He did. And this 78 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: is just I shouldn't laugh. It's obviously very sad to 79 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: lose your father. But his father was a farmer who 80 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: died after falling out of an apple tree. Um that 81 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: sounds like a setup for a joke or maybe the 82 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: punch line, I don't know, dangerous. Back then, they were like, uh, 83 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: going around giving physicists the brilliant ideas, you know, killing 84 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: young patriots fathers. You know. Um there's that whole expression 85 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: like the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. Well, 86 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: this dude fell out of the tree and died, and 87 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: they then inspired young Joseph to reach great heights. He 88 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: studied Latin. He was a very intelligent kid from a 89 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: very early age. Uh, And then he went on to 90 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: study to become a physician. He went on to marry 91 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: a woman named Elizabeth Houghton, which is a wonderful last 92 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: name that sounds Dutch to me, on September six, the 93 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: seventeen sixty four. And she brought quite a bit of 94 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: money to the table, which I think, in addition to obviously, 95 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: you know, being a physician, probably a pretty helpful and 96 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: in some of his future endeavors. You know, he's a 97 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: good example of like someone who inherits some money and 98 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: and does something positive with it, as opposed to just 99 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: like you know, settling back into the old hot tub. Yeah, 100 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: he married up, for sure. And in the defense of 101 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: apple trees, lest they be unfairly maligned in today's show. 102 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: I'd like to say, if we're in our Law of 103 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: Order episode on the Colony, then I would say the 104 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: true villain here is gravity us so by the way, 105 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: but Law and Order American Revolution addition, I think is 106 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: a brilliant idea. And can I just mock myself briefly 107 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: for the first thing that came to mind for like 108 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: a show of of seventeen sixty four wealth was a 109 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: hot tub. I just want to point that out in 110 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: case anyone else is already thinking they had they had 111 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: hot They might not have had jaccuzy jets, but they 112 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: were aware of the restorative benefits of above room temperature water. 113 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: I like the hotu so I appreciate that. Hey, so 114 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: we got each other's backs away. You're right he married up. 115 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: He was also from an old Massachusetts family. The Warrants 116 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: have been kicking around and one generation or another for 117 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: about a century and a half at the time the 118 00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: Revolution occurred, and they were kind of like they were 119 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: almost a troop in terms of demographics at the time. 120 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: They were a middle class colonial family. They farmed, but 121 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: they also had a voice in local politics, the small 122 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: town stuff. And because of this Joseph Warren was always 123 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: from you know, day one of his life thinking of 124 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: himself as a member of the colonies, as an American 125 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: rather than you know, someone who owed their allegiance to 126 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: the British crown. And we do want to at this 127 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: point shout out, of course, are good friends at Smithsonian 128 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: and our good friends at the National Library of Medicine. 129 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: There's one article called Dr Joseph Warren Leader in Medicine 130 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: Politics Revolution by George C. Wildrick. I like that name, 131 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: Mr Wildrake or doctor anyhow. So what we're saying is 132 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: this guy always felt that he was patriotic, and we 133 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: know that he put his money where his mouth or 134 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: his philosophy were. We can see that while he was 135 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: at Harvard he graduated in seventeen fifty nine, the French 136 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: and Indian War was afoot, and we know that when 137 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: he was hanging at Harvard, a lot of the people 138 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: he would meet later who are considered radicals were also 139 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: Harvard alum. Some of them may have been his cohorts. 140 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: Were talking all the hits, Sam Adams, you know, John Adams, 141 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: John Hancock, all the hits, all the John's and no 142 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: when he it's weird because when we're talking about doctors 143 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: in these times, in this era, your path to becoming 144 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: your own medical professional was a little different. He graduated 145 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: right with a top notch degree for his time, and 146 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: he didn't necessarily have what we will call a modern 147 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: residency or speciality specialization today. He got an apprenticeship. I 148 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: didn't know you could just do that. You just go 149 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: to another doctor and you're like, I got the paper, 150 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: now teach me. Yeah, man, I imagine there are you know, 151 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: slightly fewer regulations and those a bit more of a 152 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: handshake kind of situation, like you know, somebody and you 153 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: just walk up and they like the cut of your jib, 154 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: and they check out your credentials and boom, you got 155 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: yourself an apprenticeship, as opposed to having to be placed 156 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 1: or doing some sort of like you know, rigorously um 157 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: oversighted kind of what do you call those residencies? Right? 158 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: Things like that. It was a little bit more of 159 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: a kind of seat of the pants kind of situation 160 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 1: back in those days, don't you think. Yeah, things may 161 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: have been much less formal, and part of that, you know, 162 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: is a study of the evolution of medicine, both as 163 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: an industry and as a series of sciences. Look, we're 164 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: not dinging the guy for an apprenticeship. He was doing 165 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: what was very normal for a young doctor to do 166 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: at the time. And because of his apprenticeship to this 167 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: doctor James Lloyd, he was able to exercise nepotism and 168 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: social networks, which meant that he started working with the 169 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: most prominent important families in Austin. He was kind of 170 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: like the Doctor to the Stars, except in revolutionary Boston 171 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: instead of Beverly Hills. Beverly Hills also wasn't a thing, right, No, 172 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: it wasn't a thing. But there, you know, there there 173 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: there were parts of Boston that you could probably uh 174 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: stay where Beverly Hills adjacent, like Cambridge and the gentry 175 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: associated with academia and all of that good stuff. But Warren, 176 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: you know, he he was more than that, you know, 177 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: he see he saw a greater purpose in what his 178 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: affluence provided. He saw that he wanted to carry out 179 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: a very important civic duty with his work, and you know, 180 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: starting public clinics, or at least working within public clinics, 181 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: and um, you know, inoculating people against smallpox and just 182 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: basically helping the people of Boston that could not help themselves, 183 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: and that did not have access to the more, you know, 184 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: bespoke kind of medical help that there was at the time. 185 00:10:54,679 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: So he was practicing medicine when he met some of 186 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: these kind of landed gentry of the Boston aristocracy you 187 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: could call them, as well as some of these more radical, 188 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: kind of underground colonial leaders who would ultimately help him 189 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: kind of blaze a trail of politics, of of revolution, 190 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: of just really really really important work that would lead 191 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: to the establishment of the United States. Essentially, even though 192 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: he maybe didn't get the credit that he was due. 193 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: Are gonna get into how important he was and or 194 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: could have been. There's a part of this episode that 195 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: honestly kind of becomes almost a fun alternative history kind 196 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: of like thought experiment, and I'm looking forward to that part, 197 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: but for now. He stayed living in Boston during a 198 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: massive smallpox epidemic that took place in seventeen sixty three. 199 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: He took care of the sick. He opened a clinic 200 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: that specifically gave out free inoculations at the Castle William 201 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: in Boston Harbor, and it was such a smashing success 202 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: that he was able to significantly reduce the smallpox deaths 203 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: that would have happened otherwise, and he kind of single 204 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:08,359 Speaker 1: handedly led the charge in this department. His reputation became legendary, 205 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: like this is a good man. This is a man 206 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: who has empathy, who knows how to help people who 207 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: are needy, and and and knows how to organize. And 208 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: he made no differentiation between the wealthy and the poor. 209 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: And that was something that was very very attractive in 210 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: terms of, like, you know, a political leader, or in 211 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: terms of someone who there are greater things in store 212 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: for Yeah, exactly. And he also had the bedside manner 213 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: that you want in a doctor. So he's a little 214 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: bit egalitarian for the time. As he said, he also 215 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: impressed pretty much everybody in charge in Boston because he 216 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: was funny, he was witty, and he was just a 217 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: really nice guy. We know that everybody thought this because 218 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: even people who disagreed with him on fundamental political platforms 219 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: would say stuff like, now, Dr Warren and I we 220 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: don't always see eyed eye, but he's wicked kind. The 221 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: guy's he's wicked smart, and uh, you can have a 222 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: beer with him, is what I'm saying. Because of the 223 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: access his profession got, he became a known popular figure 224 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: throughout all of old Boston Town. By the way, he's 225 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: in his twenties at this point. Remember he went to 226 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: Harvard at Yes, he's the youngest doctor in Boston at 227 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: twenty two. And he is treating a lot of people 228 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: who go on to be founding fathers and two people 229 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: who go on to be president, John Adams and John 230 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: Quincy Adams. He also we're talking about political disagreements. He 231 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: also hung out with loyalists, and loyalists were the people 232 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: in the colonies who supported the king, as everybody remembers 233 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: from the play Hamilton's or History your choice. Uh, and 234 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: he can I canna give a hot take real quick. 235 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: You don't like Hamilton's not a big fan. No, I 236 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: just I don't get it. I I couldn't make it 237 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: all the way through the Disney Plus like. It's beautifully 238 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: shot and really well done. And I love musicals, I 239 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: love hip hop. I just died. It wasn't for me. 240 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people. I don't know 241 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: about you, man, but one thing that happens to me is, uh, 242 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: too much hype will ruin a thing for me because 243 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: of my contrary and nature. So it could be the 244 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: best thing ever. If people were like, hey, there's this 245 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: new band out and every time you listen to one 246 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: of their songs, puppies get a new lease on life, 247 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: and that if enough people told me how great it was, 248 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: I'd still be I'd still have a skeptical approach. I'd 249 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: say that's okay, I guess you know. I mean, I slept. 250 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: I slept on the Beatles for years because of the hype, 251 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: and then I had to kind of come to it 252 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: my own, in my own way, in my own time. 253 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: And when I did, it kind of clicked for me. 254 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: So maybe it'll happen for me with Hamilton's too. But 255 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: it wasn't that I even didn't like it. I just 256 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: found myself not being compelled to finish watching it. So 257 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: it's not like I actively disliked it. I just didn't 258 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: like go back to the well, you know. So I 259 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: was just like, well, I guess it didn't didn't grab me, 260 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: So it's better if you see it live to any 261 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: any stage player, stage musical. But yeah, I've been I've 262 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: been the same way about stuff, and uh, you know what, 263 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: I wonder how I would have behaved during the times 264 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: of the American Revolution I think it would depend on 265 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: who hyped it too much. If the loyalists were hyping 266 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: Britain to me too much, I would I would say, 267 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: I think it's overrated. You know, hopefully that's what happened. 268 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: But here's what happened. Warren very much not a loyalist, 269 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: but he does have this air of civility. He treats 270 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: the children of the Royal governor, he even treats the 271 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: wife of the governor. And there is right now some 272 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: pretty i won't say air type, but pretty compelling evidence 273 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: that Dr Warren may have been spying on the British 274 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: while he was doing his medical duties. And there are 275 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: even a few historians who got kind of TMZ with it, 276 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: and they say the doctor may have been having an 277 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: affair with the wife of the Royal governor, uh, and 278 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: that through that affair or he may have had advanced 279 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: notice of British troop movements that we're gonna occur in 280 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: Conquered on April eighteen, seventeen seventy five. And this is 281 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: where we get to his role in the revolution. It 282 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: wasn't until seventeen sixty seven, with the passage of the 283 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: Townsend Act that Warren really began in earnest too kind 284 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: of I'm gonna say be radicalized, because I think that 285 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: term is so misleading, don't you been like like the 286 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: idea of like, oh he's radicalized. That implies that, like 287 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: the idea that they are accepting or or becoming, you know, 288 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: um inflamed by you know, in a positive way, is 289 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: in some way radical. But I guess maybe the term 290 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: radical maybe refers to against the status quo. It's not 291 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: necessarily like a judgment call what what do you think 292 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: then about that term radical? So yeah, radical can be 293 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: a little bit tricky in these times because it's been 294 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: used in different ways. But what I think we mean 295 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: here by radical is we mean he was saying, all right, 296 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: we don't need to make half measure legislation. We don't 297 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: need to make policies that say, well we'll pay a 298 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: little less tax to Britain, or well we'll we'll work 299 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: on a plan to maybe talk about being a little 300 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: more autonomous in ten fifteen years. That kind of stuff. 301 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: They were saying, No, let's get free us being white 302 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: landowning citizens and the township acting. It's it's a big 303 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: lump together kind of catch all for a bunch of 304 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: really pedantic and kind of mean spirited flexes legal flexes 305 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: at the British imposed on the colonies. I think the 306 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: most famous, probably one was the tax on T because 307 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: what was to be America was a colony of England, 308 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: so they they had a lot of the same traditions 309 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: and a lot of the same kind of um what 310 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: do you call them, like, uh, customs I guess as 311 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: the British. So t was a big deal. So this 312 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: tax on T was a massive way of saying, well, 313 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: where your daddy and pay us tribute and if you don't, 314 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: then we're gonna come come for your for your tea time. 315 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: And of course that resulted in the Boston Tea Party. 316 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: All this stuff was Boston centric. Boston was like ground 317 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: zero for all of these revolutionary kind of talks. But yeah, exactly, 318 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: so this is this is when he okay, something must 319 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: be done, as you would say, Ben, and he was 320 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: going to take the power that he had as a physician, 321 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: as I guess an influencer for lack of a better 322 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: term of the time, and he was going to put 323 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: that power that he had and that reputation that he 324 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,959 Speaker 1: had too really really good use, and he did just that. 325 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: He wrote a series of articles in the Boston Gazette 326 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 1: under a pseudonym A True Patriot, and they were critiques 327 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: of the Townshendek and they were so inflammatory for the 328 00:18:55,320 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: time that the I believe the Royal Governor was so enraged, 329 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: um and you know, we felt so attacked that he 330 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: actually tried to sue the publishers of the Boston Gazette 331 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: for libel. But the grand jury that was assembled, you know, 332 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: on the matter, refused to bring any kind of you know, 333 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: I love this. They were speaking truth to power. It's 334 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: like jury nullification the modern day. The jury said, now 335 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: we're not gonna do it. I do want to add 336 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: just this funny too. For me, when we think of radicalization, 337 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: we think of almost gutty tactics and politics and stuff like, 338 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: and then later physical tactics. So that's where he also warned, 339 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,479 Speaker 1: I mean uh. He also got kind of into the 340 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: mixtape game, or it's equivalent at the time. In seventeen 341 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: seventy four, he wrote a song called Free America. It 342 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: was a poem set to a British tune the British Grenadiers. 343 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: You can read the full text online It's not quite 344 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: like a Kanye West banger today, but it definitely kept 345 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: the governor mad. So picture the royal governor saying this, 346 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,719 Speaker 1: this guy called himself a true patriot. He's in for it. 347 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: We're not gonna take this on the chin. And then 348 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: war maybe he's complaining to Warred about it while he's 349 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: at an appointment with Warren, and Warren's going, yeah, that 350 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: guy sounds like a real pill. You know, people gotta 351 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: do their things. Also, I'm sleeping with your wife anyway. 352 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: The uh, these articles, these articles are huge, right, everybody 353 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: kind of knows that it's it's Warren and his friends, 354 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: some of whom were Harvard alum as well, some of 355 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 1: whom were his patients. His friends start kind of getting 356 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: in a positive feedback loop of something must be done. 357 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: And we're talking about people like Samuel Adams, his brother 358 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: in law, James Otis, and he was down with Paul 359 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: Revere because they had a Freemason connection. And this puts 360 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: him right in the middle of the separatist movement. He's 361 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: leading the charge on Boston massacre responses too. You know, 362 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: isn't a funny been. I mean I think we we 363 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: we know better from our various studies on different podcasts, 364 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: specifically stuff they don't want you to know, the idea 365 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: of the Freemason's being some sort of you know, shadowy 366 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: cabal of like you know, world event steerers or controllers 367 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: or whatever, you know, guiding the course of history from 368 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, some sort of secret bunker. But I think 369 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: what really it comes down to us, It was a 370 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: brotherhood of intelligent people and a lot of times, you know, 371 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: in times where being intelligent or forward thinking was not 372 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: nearly the norm. So I think a lot of things 373 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: spring forward from Mason Masonic connections because it was a 374 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: place where these kinds of people could meet, you know, 375 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: and like come up with ideas together. And yeah, some 376 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: of them sure over time or maybe bad or or 377 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 1: the idea of like you know, the super wealthy or whatever. 378 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: But things like this, like this is literally what thinking 379 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: groups of people should be doing. It's like thinking about 380 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: how how can we rebel against the status quo that 381 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 1: is literally trying to deprive us of like me being full, 382 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: you know, way of life. I think you'll be interested, 383 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians, to check out our stuff. They want 384 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: you to know episodes on that and our forthcoming book 385 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: coming out in October. Preorder it now so we don't 386 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: get fired. But but but yeah, we we make that 387 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: case to just as you said, you know, people in 388 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: these Masonic movements were often forward thinking, progressive, or even 389 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: considered heretical in their time. And yes, maybe they were. 390 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: Maybe members of Masonic movements were participating in what could 391 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: be called conspiracies, but it wasn't like run the world 392 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,959 Speaker 1: or get a drain of chrome from children. It was 393 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: it was more um like freedom of religion kind of stuff, 394 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: things that would assume sort of tame today, but very 395 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: very dangerous back in their time. But yes, we do 396 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: think sometimes the Masons have gotten an unfair uh, they've 397 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: gotten short shrift in history. They didn't deserve it. And 398 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: this is yeah, a percent, and this is something that 399 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: plays a role still in the revolution. So we're gonna 400 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: tell you about some of the We're a family show 401 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: but there's only the only word for it, some of 402 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: the badass stuff that Warren did. And then we're gonna 403 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: get to the part we were talking about where we 404 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: ask ourselves, how come so many people don't know about 405 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: this guy. He was a leader in the revolution for 406 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: a while because Sam Adams went to Philly in seventeen 407 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: seventy four where he invented cream cheese and the cheese steak. 408 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: Don't fact check us, uh, and he choseph If you do, though, 409 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: you will find that it's completely one and twelve percent. 410 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: So Warren kind of took over and kept the seat 411 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: warm for Samuel Adams in Boston, and then he started 412 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: doing this stuff that Britain would consider not just sedition 413 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: but active terrorism, getting malicious together, figuring out and gained 414 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: into the arms trade. How do we get gunpowder and 415 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: how do we get fired arms. So there's a couple 416 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: of months later you had Sam Adams, Samuel Adams of 417 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: of of middling beer fame. I'm sure it was great 418 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: at the time, but also you know revolutionary war fame, 419 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: and also John Hancock. Um. They had been in Philly, 420 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: like you were saying, uh, and they both came back 421 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: to Massachusetts um to further the cause, only to find 422 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: out that they were officially persona non grata and they 423 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: had bounties placed on their heads. They were outlaws. The 424 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: crown wanted them dead or alive. That's right. Yeah, here's 425 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: another thing you should know about Dr Joseph Warred. He's 426 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,959 Speaker 1: the guy who sent Paul Revere on that famous ride. 427 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: In the middle of the night, he learned that British 428 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: troops were gonna cross the Charles River part of their 429 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: march towards Lexington, and he said, okay, well, the main 430 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: reason they're going is to to arrest Old Johnny h 431 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: and Uh Samuel Adams. And then they were gonna go 432 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: to Concord to get ahold of the revolutionaries munitions, like 433 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: all their firearms and powder and whatnot. So he said, look, 434 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: I'm gonna send here. It is one messenger by land 435 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: and one by sea. And then it's around nine pm. 436 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: He goes to William Dawes and he says, look, this 437 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: is some mission impossible stuff. And daw says, what's mission impossible? 438 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: And he says it's a film franchise that's gonna blow 439 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: up later. And he goes, what's film And he goes, look, 440 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: we don't have time. You need to ride through this 441 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: checkpoint that British centuries are guarding. You gotta take the 442 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: land route. And then he goes to Paul Revere and 443 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: he says, we don't have time to talk about the 444 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: mission impossible franchise. I need you to go across the 445 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: Charles River and spread the word that the British are coming. Yeah, 446 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: but just rest assured. That's gonna be an incredible franchise, 447 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: gonna be beloved by by parents and children. Are like, um, 448 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: you know, Tom Cruise literally sustains the rest of his career, 449 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: and I'm excited about a new Top Gun movie. Don't 450 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: know about you, guys, but it's supposed to be a 451 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: real riotous um jamboree. I'm just not a top gun guy, man. 452 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: I think it was the hype. I'm not really either. 453 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: I don't know. Planes are cool like planes, you like 454 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: fighter planes. It's like a it's like a fighter plane 455 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: soap opera kind of. You know. There's romance and the skies, 456 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: John Ham's in it. But they all have cool nicknames 457 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: like Sparky and Chip. You know, we could give ourselves 458 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: cool nicknames. We do. We do have my friend, we 459 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 1: do actually, but but yes, MI should impossible and uh 460 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: me being unfair to Top Gun his side. This is 461 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: a very important story. It's just that's surprising, isn't it 462 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: That Paul Revere is famous in US history? School kids 463 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: learn about that the midnight Ride of Paul Revere and 464 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: so on, but they don't learn about the guy who 465 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: made the ride happen. Well, we're gonna kinda find out why. 466 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: And it's a little bit sad. You can probably put 467 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: do the do the do the history math and figure 468 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: out what happens to a degree, but let's not spoil 469 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: it quite yet. So next we've got these like skirmishes 470 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: that are happening at Lexington and Concorde. And that actually 471 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: was a bad enough situation that Warren actually left his patience. Um, 472 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: you know, he he put his assistant in charge, guy 473 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: named William Eustace, who I've also heard of. I don't 474 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: even know anything about the guy, but I know the 475 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: name William Eustace, I swear to God, I do. But 476 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: he rides as well, not Eustace, but but but Warren 477 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: himself rides to the battle and spends the next six 478 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: weeks literally acting as a commander, you know, like a 479 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: de facto commander, you know, helping the troops prepare and 480 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: train and and and you know, garrisoning or any of 481 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: those military terms that I only vaguely understand the meaning of. 482 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: He was, in fact, then officially again this is like 483 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: a sub kind of government that's being established on the fly, 484 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: you know. Uh. And they elected him the General in 485 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: command of the Massachusetts forces. Uh. And this was by 486 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: something called the Provincial Congress on the fourteenth of June 487 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: in seventeen seventy five, or only one year away from 488 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 1: the big number, right, seventeen seventy six, the one everybody knows. 489 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: So he meets with something called the Committee of Safety, 490 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: which sounds like really like I like like like a 491 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: hall monitor kind of American revolution. That's a General Artemis 492 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: Wards HQ over in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Warren then finds out 493 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,239 Speaker 1: that British forces have actually landed at Charlestown, and at 494 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: twelve noon he rides over to the Breeds Hill Fortifications. 495 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: This is where a bunch of other American forces were 496 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: kind of garrison there. And then the rest of it. 497 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: NPS dot Gov by the way, um does a fabulous 498 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: rundown of the more legendary kind of parts of this story. 499 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,719 Speaker 1: That's National Park Service, by the way. Uh. And they 500 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: have like a really good historical kind of brief with 501 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: some kind of quick facts and important dates and stuff 502 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: all about Joseph Warrens. If you want to read that. 503 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: Highly recommend checking that out. But yeah, they point out 504 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,959 Speaker 1: that the next part of the story really is kind 505 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: of like, yeah, now legendary very much. Eat your heart out, 506 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: Tom Cruise. We're going cinematic, so Warren like like a 507 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: blockbuster Hollywood hero. Warren, when he's at Reed's Hill is 508 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: asked to take command and he says, no, We're all 509 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: in this together. He goes into the lines of battle 510 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: as a regular volunteer. The British launched one assault, then 511 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: a second, then a third, and during their final assault, 512 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: Warren stands up to make his grand speech. This is 513 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: like Aragon speaking to the armies and the Lord of 514 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: the Rings, not this day. We don't know how his 515 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: speech would have ended because he was shot directly between 516 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: the eyes pretty much right when he stood up, and 517 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: the people that he had rallied in those last moments 518 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: where everyone you could imagine from Massachusetts Society as a 519 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: National Park Service points that we're talking merchants, mechanics, laborers, farmers, 520 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: both free people and enslaved people, indigenous people, and then 521 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: also MPs notes quote this from their site directly, how 522 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: ironic that the leader was a slave owner, So big, 523 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: big speech is happening. This is where we get to 524 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: the what ifrey right of history. If this guy had 525 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: survived this, there's a chance he would have become president later, 526 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: you know, but he he didn't, like, like, no, he didn't. 527 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: He got hit square between the eyes. Yeah, by by 528 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: a musket ball. Yeah. One of those sources that we 529 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: were looking at um pointed out that, you know, if 530 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: this guy had survived, he was had such stature in 531 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: this movement that like it would have been like George 532 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: Washington who or or George who? I guess they would 533 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: have said they wouldn't have said who after Washington. But 534 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: this guy was like the big This guy was the 535 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: real deal, and he was he was looked at and 536 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: it was like absolutely crushing that he was killed. And 537 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: then it's sort of literally kind of rewrote the course 538 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: of history. That's absolutely right, and you know, ridiculous historians. 539 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say that Noel Max and 540 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: myself are all intensely interested in those those fulcrum points, 541 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: you know, those hinges upon which the path of history swings, 542 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: And this is one of those hinges. And here's what 543 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: we know after he died, and he died bravely he 544 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: was defending his compatriots. After the battle, the British forces 545 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: start burying bodies. They burry Warren in a shallow grave 546 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: along with another guy, a farmer, who also died in 547 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: the firefight. Fast forward ten months later, British forces evacuate 548 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: Boston and the nascent Us forces exhume Warren's body from 549 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: the battlefield. Paul Revere was not a full time dentist, 550 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: but he he did something you could do back in 551 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: the seventeen hundreds. He dabbled in dentistry like it was 552 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: his side hobby. Was his side gig, not his main gig. 553 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: He was able to identify Warren because he had done 554 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: some dental work for him earlier, so they had to 555 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: use dental identification to figure out who Warren was. And 556 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: then he was reburied at the Granary Burying Ground with 557 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: full Masonic honors because he was like a grand master 558 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: I think in masonry. But his family moved his body 559 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: again in the eighteen hundreds to a Boston cathedral and 560 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: then they moved him again to Forest Hills Cemetery in Jamaica, 561 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: playing in eighteen fifty five, and that is where his 562 00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: body remains. So he was heroic, but he died in 563 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: the midst of the war. He was a hero at 564 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: the time at least, right, Oh, he was totally hero. 565 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, like, like you said, the 566 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: British kind of just you know, chucked him in a 567 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: shallow grave. And I think, you know, we were talking 568 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: earlier about what was it that led to his legacy 569 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: is kind of being cut short or or to be 570 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: relegated to kind of the scrap heap of history. And 571 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: I think it was just because of the he didn't 572 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: exactly die a hero's death or what you would think 573 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: of in terms of like the lore of a hero. 574 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: I mean, he died, but that, honestly, it makes him 575 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: even more compelling to me. He died the way, you know, 576 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: and not to sound like Walter and the big Lebowski, 577 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: but he died the way so many young men of 578 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: his generation died in the muck, in the mire and 579 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: the trenches, you know, next to each other. And he 580 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: refused to take command. He would have been more likely 581 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: to have survived if he had been like, you know, protected, 582 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: but instead he was out there in the fray. And 583 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: I think that is really the sign of a really 584 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: powerful personality and someone who really did have, you know, 585 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: a real moral center and just wanted to do right 586 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: by all the people that he, you know, had under him. 587 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: But he didn't really think of it that way, right, Yeah, 588 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: I absolutely agree. No, he was in some ways of 589 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 1: study of contradictions. Who isn't a study in contradictions rather, 590 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:28,439 Speaker 1: But people recognized his contributions. And you know what, what's 591 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: that old saying? You never get the flowers where you 592 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,839 Speaker 1: can still smell them? Right in New England right now, 593 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: every state there has at least one town named after him. 594 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: He was posthumously a hero, died young. No one knew 595 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: what what could have happened had that bullet not hit 596 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: him in the face. He left four children behind. Their 597 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 1: mother had also passed away in sevent seventy three. It 598 00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: took an order from get this Benedict Arnold to help 599 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: Congress pay for their welfare throughout childhood. That was in 600 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: seventeen seventy eight. And Ben you mentioned exercise and contradictions 601 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: or or studying contradictions, and you pointed out off Mike 602 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: something that I just just because I've been so gushy here, 603 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: I think we both have to degree. This is an 604 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: interesting fellow. A lot of these these dudes were, but most, 605 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 1: if not all of them were participated in slavery. You know, Um, 606 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 1: they were not particularly kind to women, you know, in 607 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: the way. And I know sometimes we get ragged onwards like, 608 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: well it was a different job. You don't have to 609 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: justify everything and all these people's actions. But we're talking 610 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,879 Speaker 1: about people that I think are doing great things while 611 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: also doing terrible things, and it does It's like, does 612 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: it negate the good things they've done. They were all 613 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: participating in terrible things because those terrible things were just 614 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: the norm of the time. I always have a hard 615 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: time with that. So I don't know. I don't really 616 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: know the answer, but I think it's important to bring up. 617 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: It is. It is agree and you know, it's the 618 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: ethical and just thing to do. We owe it to 619 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: history to be honest about that. I would argue Joseph Warren. 620 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: We know that he did by enslaved people, uh specifically 621 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: from a guy selling his slave people. That guy's name 622 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: was Joshua Green. We also know everything you said is true, 623 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: and I'm with you on that one man. Joseph Warren's 624 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: family also left behind a legacy His younger brother, John Warren, 625 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: became senior surgeon of the Continental Army again at age 626 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: twenty two. What am I doing in my life? And 627 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: he organized the Boston Medical Society in seventeen eighty. He 628 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: went on to play a big role in founding Harvard 629 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: Medical School, which is around today. And it's weird because 630 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: I don't know one one thing. Before we wrap up, 631 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: we've got to say we're not just blowing smoke and 632 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: having pipe dreams about what could have happened to this 633 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: guy had he not lost his life at such a 634 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: young age. Even loyalist people on the other side of 635 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: the conflict said the same thing about him. A guy 636 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: named Peter Oliver, a loyalist, would later go on to 637 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: say that if Joseph Warren had lived, George Washington would 638 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: have been little more than an obscurity, which is kind 639 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 1: of uh, that's a lot to say. I don't know 640 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: if we can at because we don't. We don't have 641 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 1: multiverse access yet, so we don't know now yet would 642 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,399 Speaker 1: a war wait on that update to I haven't even 643 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: seen Dr Strange to Do yet. No, I haven't either, 644 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: But I really like the films of Sam Rami, and 645 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: I think it will be a lot of fun. Uh 646 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: even it's getting mixture of neews, but who cares. Uh, Yeah, 647 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: he said he he may have become the quote Cromwell 648 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: of North America. That's this Peter Oliver guy. And you know, 649 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: speaking of like a mixed legacy or things that were 650 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: accepted at the time. We we did a whole episode 651 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: about the idea of resurrection men, and I believe it 652 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: was Benjamin Franklin. You know, it was just cover with 653 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,399 Speaker 1: like a basement full of cadavers that were looted from 654 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: from cemeteries. And that was a thing. That is something 655 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: that Joseph Warren also did. Was the time, there was 656 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: no other way to study the human anatomy than to 657 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: do this, and it was not technically legal, but it 658 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: was also understood to be a thing. There's a book 659 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: called Bunker Hill, A City, a Siege, a Revolution by 660 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,360 Speaker 1: Nathaniel philbrick Um that talks about Warren some of his 661 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 1: early days. Uh. He and his younger brother John the surgeon, 662 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: Continental Army surgeon guy and Harvard Medical School founder. We're 663 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: part or likely part of a group of Harvard students 664 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: called the Spunkers. Where that one came from something different. 665 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,919 Speaker 1: I think it did. I think it did. It gets 666 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 1: your mind out of the out of the gutter. They 667 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: they would routinely go and rob bodies from graveyards, jails, 668 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 1: and poor houses in order to find um specimens they 669 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: could use for for medical training. Yeah, yeah, which was 670 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: a which is a real thing. At the time, it 671 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: was a little bit of a gray area in the 672 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: eyes of the law for both Europe and the US. 673 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: Do check out our episode of stuff they don't want 674 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 1: you to know with one of the most click baity 675 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: titles I ever wrote was Benjamin Franklin a serial Killer. 676 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: I'm looking at Max to see if that's still lands. 677 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,760 Speaker 1: I think we decided to go with it. But yeah, again, 678 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: this is something you have to ask yourself about so 679 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: many figures in history. What would the world have been 680 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: like the world today in two if things had gone 681 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: just a bit different. Also, let's point out, you know, 682 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: firearms of that time notoriously unreliable, So there's a good 683 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 1: chance that he would have survived if he hadn't been 684 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: hit by that one ball between the eyes. With this, 685 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: I think we can't wait to hear your thoughts about 686 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 1: other forgotten figures in history that were huge in their day, 687 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: but maybe now not remembered to the extent that they 688 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: perhaps deserve. I also want to thank our our super producer, 689 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: Mr Max Williams. Folks you may be asking. I mean, 690 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: let's be honest, old, most people tune into the show 691 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,280 Speaker 1: so they can hear Max rag on us every so often. 692 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 1: And uh, Max is very conscientious dude, and earlier told us, Hey, guys, 693 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 1: you know why I'm I'm being I'm being a little 694 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: quiet on Mike. I've got this wood chipper. It's driving 695 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: me crazy. So how would this episode of god Noll 696 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: if Max have been able to comment if only that 697 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 1: one errant yardsman did not need to chip wood at 698 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: this exact hour or potentially dispose of a body we 699 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: don't know. We don't wood chippers contain multitudes, they do, literally, 700 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 1: I think you can maybe tell by the sound. I 701 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,800 Speaker 1: feel like, legally be a little squish here be squish 702 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: here for sure, And no spoilers. Check out the movie 703 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: Fargo to find out for yourself. I think we can 704 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: spoil all that one, but uh, but yes, let us 705 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: let us know your thoughts. Thanks, of course to Alex Williams, 706 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: who composed this banging track Thanks to everyone for tuning in. 707 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: As always, you're a favorite part of the show. Nol Man, 708 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,800 Speaker 1: thank you so much. This was a fun ride for 709 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 1: for both of us. I think it makes me want 710 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: to go to a museum, like a good you know, 711 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: like a good regional New England museum. That's a good point. Yeah, 712 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,319 Speaker 1: I haven't been to one of those in a hot minute. Um, 713 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: I'm actually going to Philadelphia in a couple of weeks, 714 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: so maybe i'll be you know, in the region anyway, 715 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,879 Speaker 1: so maybe I could find an inappropriately regional museum. Will 716 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,760 Speaker 1: report back for all your ridiculous historians. See you next time, folks. 717 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I 718 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 719 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.