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Speaker 1: This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis. Play talks

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Speaker 1: with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.

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Speaker 1: Now here's Clay Travis. Welcome in Wins in Wasses podcast.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate all of you who are listening. If you enjoy

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Speaker 1: Calling Cowherd, who are about to talk with, I guarantee

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Speaker 1: you'll be likely to enjoy many of the other conversations weekly.

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Speaker 1: It's only on the podcast, so we hope you're going

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Speaker 1: to dive in and enjoy it. We bring in now

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Speaker 1: without any further ado. Calling Cowherd. You can find him

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Speaker 1: on FS one, you can listen to him all over

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Speaker 1: the nation on Fox Sports Radio, and you can find

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Speaker 1: him on Twitter at Colin Cowherd. Collin appreciate the time.

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Speaker 1: How are you? I am great, Clay. A lot happening

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Speaker 1: in our world's politically, sports media, tech. It's all just

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Speaker 1: going fast fluid, isn't it. It's amazing how everything is

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Speaker 1: happening almost all at once. And it's even difficult to

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Speaker 1: first see what's going to be the case in five years,

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Speaker 1: ten years, anywhere down the road. But it's been going

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Speaker 1: on like this. It feels like for a frenzy for

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Speaker 1: a little while. And one of the things we like

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Speaker 1: to do on wins and losses is find out how

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Speaker 1: you ended up where you are right now. So you

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Speaker 1: right now have what I think is the most listened

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Speaker 1: to sports talk or radio show in the country. There

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Speaker 1: may be other people who would try and claim that crown,

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Speaker 1: but I believe, based on the numbers and the data

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Speaker 1: that I've seen, you have it now. And uh So,

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Speaker 1: before we get to how you are managing to succeed today,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious where did it all start? Where did you

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Speaker 1: grow up? What was your background like before you got

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Speaker 1: into television and radio? Uh? Small town America. Look at

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Speaker 1: a map of the continental United States. I'm upper far

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Speaker 1: left on the beach. Uh. You know. Mom worked in

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Speaker 1: the school. Dad was a local optometrist in a small town. UM,

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Speaker 1: and I just knew at a very early age my

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Speaker 1: dad was a workaholic. My mom was sort of British

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Speaker 1: and reticent, and my sister was five years older, so

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Speaker 1: she wouldn't let me hang out with her. I was

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Speaker 1: by myself a lot, and radio was my friend. And

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Speaker 1: I think at a very early age I listened to

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Speaker 1: a lot of AM radio, a lot of baseball announcers, um,

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Speaker 1: and I just kind of fell in love with it,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to be a baseball announcer. And I

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Speaker 1: would go out in my yard again, really didn't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of neighbors, and I would play basketball and

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Speaker 1: call to play by play and play football. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not joking when I say this. I'd fill out

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Speaker 1: lineup cards in baseball and I would I would spend

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Speaker 1: hours in the yard playing whiffleball by myself and broadcasting

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Speaker 1: the games and keeping a box score. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's that's really helped. That's why I'm pretty good at

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Speaker 1: just ad libbing. I've never needed a prompter, um, you know.

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Speaker 1: I I just spent my childhood doing that. And you know,

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Speaker 1: from there at a very early age, uh, sporting news,

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Speaker 1: sports Illustrated, read anything I can get my hands on,

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Speaker 1: and I think if I have, you know, if there's

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Speaker 1: if there's one kind of magic potion for what I did,

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Speaker 1: it was focus and determination. I knew what I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do. I never wavered. I was all in. If

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Speaker 1: I failed at this, I failed, And you know, I

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Speaker 1: was just really determined. And then there was divorces in

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Speaker 1: my family as a kid early and I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you've ever gone through anything like that, but there's

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Speaker 1: a there's a sense of fear of self reliance, like

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Speaker 1: if you don't make it, there is no there is

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Speaker 1: no dad's pension for you, Like this was it my

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Speaker 1: mom and dad were divorced. I had to work two

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Speaker 1: jobs to get through college. So I think that fear

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Speaker 1: really kind of catapult at me. Was kind of like

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Speaker 1: a a red bull in my career, just to work

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Speaker 1: tireless hours, stay completely focused, absurdly obsessively determined. And I

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Speaker 1: think if you do that in any business, your chances

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Speaker 1: of a succeeding are elevated. And I think I think

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Speaker 1: my story is not uncommon. I think there's attorneys, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's lawyers, there's athletes that have my story. You grew

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Speaker 1: up in some dysfunction and chaos. You feel like you

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Speaker 1: if you don't succeed, it's not gonna work. And I

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Speaker 1: was just a really focused, driven kid. What jobs did

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Speaker 1: you have while you were in college? Uh? Well, I

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Speaker 1: did play by play, I worked in the school cafeteria.

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Speaker 1: I worked radio, TV department, sports information department. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: my mom would send me ten dollars a month razors

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Speaker 1: and cookies. I worked summer jobs and save my money

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Speaker 1: at a state park. I worked in a whale watching boat.

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Speaker 1: I waked and worked in a greasy spoon restaurant when

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Speaker 1: I would go home from college. So I mean every

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Speaker 1: dollar matters. I mean, a twenty dollar bill to me

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Speaker 1: was living. Um got on meal plans cheap ones, could

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Speaker 1: only eat two meals a day, not three. I mean everything,

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Speaker 1: you know, everything was about you know, uh, putting money away. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know I didn't have the option or the um,

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Speaker 1: the backing. And it wasn't because my parents lacked you know, devotion.

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Speaker 1: It was just my dad was divorced, my mom didn't

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Speaker 1: make a lot of money, uh um, and I was

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Speaker 1: kind of on my own to some degree now that

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Speaker 1: now in in hindsight, it was a great you know

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Speaker 1: benefactor for me. Um. You know, we all worry about

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Speaker 1: once we do well and our kids live a lifestyle

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Speaker 1: that that lacks that fear, where they have grantite countertops,

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Speaker 1: where they get to go to Disneyland three times a year,

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Speaker 1: or there is a beach house. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: just worked. You know again, I worked at greasy spoons

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Speaker 1: and state parks, and just like everybody else did, and

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Speaker 1: then I got my first break UH in college. I

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Speaker 1: went to the Baseball Winner meetings recommended by somebody at

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Speaker 1: my college, a professor, and I went and there was

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Speaker 1: four hundred people interviewing for three jobs, and I was

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Speaker 1: given UM. The Las Vegas Stars hired me a Triple

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Speaker 1: A affiliate of the Padres. UH. They would give me

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Speaker 1: one inning of play by playoff. I would do sales.

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Speaker 1: And that's that started at all. And then a local

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Speaker 1: owner of a TV station, the minority owner, like three

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Speaker 1: percent owner, was a huge baseball fan, had heard me

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Speaker 1: on the air and and they had a sportscaster opening

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Speaker 1: and he said, give this kid with a weird name chance.

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Speaker 1: He's got great energy, good storyteller. And then I was

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Speaker 1: off and running. I got a job at the NBC

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Speaker 1: affiliate in Vegas. KVBC had a very good sports director,

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Speaker 1: Scott Reynolds, who now anchors in Louisville. Was a terrific mentor,

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Speaker 1: very patient, almost could be a college professor, like he's

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Speaker 1: done very well for himself. But he was just a great.

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Speaker 1: He taught me television. He taught me local TV and

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Speaker 1: editing and how to anchor and how to treat people.

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Speaker 1: So I got a lot of breaks. I got some breaks.

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Speaker 1: I worked with good smart people, had good bosses. And

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Speaker 1: then from there it was Tampa, Tampa to Portland, Portland, ESPN, ESPN,

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Speaker 1: the Fox. All right, So I want to go back

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Speaker 1: for a second. You said you worked on a whale

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Speaker 1: watching boat. What was Colin cowherd well watcher? Extraordinar air? Like?

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Speaker 1: What was your job on the whale watching post? Um?

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Speaker 1: You would do that in the stormy seas of grays

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Speaker 1: Harbor County, Westport, Washington. Jeff mcquarie was a wide receiver

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Speaker 1: on the football team. I was the quarterback. His dad

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Speaker 1: owned a He was a pilot for United Airlines and

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Speaker 1: in his spare time a second job. He loved commercial

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Speaker 1: in a fishing boat and he would take Jeff and

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Speaker 1: I out occasionally. I only did about five times. There

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Speaker 1: was whale watching, and you know, people would come down

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Speaker 1: in the winter and you go whale watching in Westport, Washington.

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Speaker 1: You had to go over the bar, which is a

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Speaker 1: very by the jetty which was a very rough part.

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Speaker 1: Almost fell off the boat once. So if you were

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Speaker 1: squeamish or you know, fearful of clouds, rough water, that

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Speaker 1: was not the job for you. But you would spot

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Speaker 1: whales and he people would come down. They pay money,

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Speaker 1: they're going to whale watching trip. It's kind of fun actually,

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Speaker 1: you know, you see these whales twelve feet from the

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Speaker 1: commercial fishing boat. Um. You know, I went to Mexico

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Speaker 1: about a year ago with my wife and we did

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Speaker 1: the same thing. It's it's really fun. But that, you know,

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Speaker 1: that was just one of those jobs. I don't even

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Speaker 1: remember if it paid or what it paid, but you

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Speaker 1: just had to stay busy again. Twenty dollar bills. You know.

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Speaker 1: When I went to college, four thousand bucks. I made

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Speaker 1: about three thousand in the summer. So you just it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, hand him out, man. What I made that

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Speaker 1: fed me? You went to You mentioned playing sports, I

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Speaker 1: think in high school? What sports did you play in

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Speaker 1: high school? I was basketball was my best sport. I

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Speaker 1: actually my last year made an all conference team. I

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Speaker 1: was a shooter. I wasn't very good, but it was

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Speaker 1: a small high school, small conference, and quarterback in the

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Speaker 1: high school team for a year. Not very good at

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Speaker 1: that either. Um, then I got a team sports. Once

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Speaker 1: I got out of college and started doing TV and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. I was more of a runner and

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Speaker 1: a lifter, and I like to ski and do that

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Speaker 1: stuff water ski. But you know, I was always just

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Speaker 1: kind of a small town jock. Not great, not special,

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Speaker 1: you know, good enough in a small town to memorize

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Speaker 1: the playbook and be the quarterback. Good enough in a

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Speaker 1: small town. I was probably the best shooter on my

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Speaker 1: basketball team. Uh, not special, you know I I run

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Speaker 1: still today and you know weekend Warrior, but you know,

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Speaker 1: nothing memorable. So you go, I think it was the

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Speaker 1: Eastern Washington, Right. How did you pick there as where

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Speaker 1: you were going to college? Well, I didn't have a

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Speaker 1: lot of money divorced, and it was four thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: a year. My dream school was the University of Washington,

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Speaker 1: but I picked Eastern because, um, my high school basketball coach,

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Speaker 1: Jim Cohn, had coached as an assistant coach there, um,

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Speaker 1: like in a previous decade, and he knew the basketball coach,

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Speaker 1: and he knew the athletic director. Ron Raver was the

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Speaker 1: athletic director. Joe Folda was the assistant coach. And he said, listen,

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Speaker 1: I got some contexts. Why don't I make some calls

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Speaker 1: and at least you'll walk in and maybe I can

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Speaker 1: get your job in the athletic department, you know, moving

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Speaker 1: around paper. And so I went in there and the

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Speaker 1: athletic department, the athletic director, they called me the Westport kid. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, I had I had a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a job, made a little bit of money, had some

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Speaker 1: contacts and it didn't cost very much. It was like

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Speaker 1: bucks a year. So but I had an automatic job

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Speaker 1: in the athletic department. I had my summer money I

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Speaker 1: made at the state park or on the fishing boats,

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Speaker 1: and and in the end it was it was a

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Speaker 1: really good fit for me. You know. I was an

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Speaker 1: aggressive kid, really driven. So you know, the radio TV

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Speaker 1: department to this day is very small, but man Clay,

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Speaker 1: I went in there and I was gonna be Vin Scully. Man.

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Speaker 1: I was like, give me the headsets, I'll go anywhere.

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Speaker 1: And by like my sophomore year, you know, they weren't

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Speaker 1: putting me on the headset and I was doing fifteen

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Speaker 1: baseball play by play games a year. I would never

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Speaker 1: have been given that opportunity at the University of Washington,

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Speaker 1: or at Missouri or Syracuse are these great broadcasting schools,

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Speaker 1: but at Eastern you want to do the game. Kid,

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Speaker 1: here's the mic Go when you went down to Vegas

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Speaker 1: and you've got a lot of people who listen to

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Speaker 1: this that are young and they're interested in getting into

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Speaker 1: the sports business. You said, there were a lot of

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Speaker 1: people interviewing for this job. You got one inning, and

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Speaker 1: you also had to do sales. What do you think

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Speaker 1: made you distinguishable enough to get that job to get

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Speaker 1: that first opportunity. Well, the first guy that hired me

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Speaker 1: at the Baseball Winter meetings was Don Logan. He is

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Speaker 1: still the president of that organization. Done well for himself,

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Speaker 1: and years later I asked him that question. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was just, you know, you kind of walking down

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Speaker 1: memory land. I was on the phone call about fifteen

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Speaker 1: years ago from today, and I said, you know, Don,

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Speaker 1: I just called him out of the blue. I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're a real seminal person in my life,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I got emotional. I was just like,

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Speaker 1: I just, you know, I want you to know that

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Speaker 1: any success I've had, you've been part of. And I said,

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Speaker 1: not to be vain, but why did you hire me?

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Speaker 1: And I and Don said, listen, everybody in line was

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Speaker 1: petrified you came up here, and you were like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're stupid if you don't hire me. I'm gonna work

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Speaker 1: my ass off, I'm gonna put in more hours, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna sell. I am gonna blow you away and he

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Speaker 1: and he goes. I literally turned to my assistance after

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Speaker 1: you left, and I'm like, well, he's raw, but he's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a tour to force. Like this kid's not

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Speaker 1: gonna come to Vegas and shrink. Vegas is a big city.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of you know, money and gambling. And

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Speaker 1: they're like, he's the most aggressive kid. Will teach him

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Speaker 1: how to sell. But at least I know he's got

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Speaker 1: the aggressive personality, Like you can close doors on him,

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Speaker 1: He'll just keep knocking on the door. And Don said,

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Speaker 1: you were aggressive, and we we we knew you didn't

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Speaker 1: know anything. We could teach you how to do things,

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Speaker 1: but we couldn't have a guy that was, you know,

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Speaker 1: a snowflake, petrified to the room of the moment. So

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Speaker 1: I think that was in the end that got me

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Speaker 1: the job. Be sure to catch live editions about kick

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Speaker 1: the Coverage with Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern,

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Speaker 1: three am Pacific. You're listening to wins and Losses. I'm

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Speaker 1: Clay Travis. He's calling cowherd uh when you get that job.

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Speaker 1: How much do you think it mattered that your initial

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Speaker 1: job in sports mirrored in some way some of the

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Speaker 1: things that I think you'd be curious about later in

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Speaker 1: your career, which is you're there on the business side

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Speaker 1: and you're there on the content side, right so from

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Speaker 1: the get go, you gotta go out and sell at

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Speaker 1: the same time that you're doing this play by play,

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Speaker 1: which I think makes you aware of the money behind

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Speaker 1: your content in a way that frankly a ton of

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Speaker 1: people who work in sports never even really grasp well.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a big my My first girlfriend in

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Speaker 1: Vegas was named Lorie Herron because she was You could

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Speaker 1: probably look it up on Google. She was a really

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Speaker 1: really super pressed smartest. She was so smart. We used

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Speaker 1: to play Jeopardy. She'd run through the board and until

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Speaker 1: it got to a sports topic and I finished that

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Speaker 1: Lori Harren and she was missed out Dakota at one point.

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Speaker 1: And I met her in Vegas and she was a

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Speaker 1: salesperson and I talked about once every couple of years.

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Speaker 1: Really bright, really done well for herself. And she was

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Speaker 1: in sales and I was in sales. That's how we

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Speaker 1: met and when I got into radio, she said, you know,

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Speaker 1: don't be one of these idiots on radio, like be

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Speaker 1: good to salespeople like understand we're working for you. And

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Speaker 1: I've never forgot that. Um, I really think all the

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Speaker 1: time about my boss that I heard or Fox. I

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Speaker 1: am not here to be subversive. You know a lot

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Speaker 1: of sports writers I don't even have to mention names

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Speaker 1: are subversive. Their anti management. I've always worked with management,

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Speaker 1: you know. My My takeaway is they're trying to make

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Speaker 1: money off me. Why be a jerk? Why not lubricate

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Speaker 1: the situation? Why agitated? So I've always worked well with

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Speaker 1: my gms, UM, and in turn, I've gotten good contracts.

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Speaker 1: Over the course of time in my career, I've gotten

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Speaker 1: a lot of beneficial relationships, a lot of things augmented

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Speaker 1: because I get along with management and sales. I don't

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Speaker 1: you know, I guess sports writers have a different sort

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Speaker 1: of take you know, they they sales as evil. But

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Speaker 1: when you work in radio, sales is you know, you're

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Speaker 1: on the sidewalk man, you're doing live remote at a

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Speaker 1: bar because the bar's pan your bills. So like like

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Speaker 1: you and I like, you know, radio is different there's

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Speaker 1: a different sensibility to it. So I think I've always

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Speaker 1: had a sense because I started in sales. My first

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Speaker 1: girlfriend was in sales, and she was always in my ear,

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Speaker 1: like you know some of these DJs. She would deal

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Speaker 1: with DJs like they just don't get it. You can

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Speaker 1: add a hundred This was like thirty years ago. She goes,

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Speaker 1: I can make another hundred grandy year. Just don't be

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Speaker 1: a dope. And when you have to meet clients. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting you mentioned that because I would say my

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Speaker 1: kind of eye opening moment in the world of understanding

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Speaker 1: sports came when I was doing local radio in Nashville,

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Speaker 1: and at the time, I was making forty dollars a

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Speaker 1: year for a three hour daily show. And I went

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Speaker 1: out on an advertising call for a hair doctor, guy

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Speaker 1: who you know, does hair implants, and he signed just

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Speaker 1: for me to do live ads, a fifty thousand dollar

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Speaker 1: ad by for the next six months. And I remember

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Speaker 1: sitting there watching him sign that contract and thinking to myself,

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Speaker 1: he just signed for me to do live reads about

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Speaker 1: hair replacement therapy more than they're going to pay me

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Speaker 1: for the entire year. This is mind blowing to me, right,

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Speaker 1: Like this is one advertiser buying six months of ads.

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Speaker 1: That's going to cover my entire yearly salary, plus more

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Speaker 1: money on top of it. And I said, I gotta

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Speaker 1: figure out the business model here because I'm good at talking.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately, you can only get paid as much as

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Speaker 1: people are willing to pay you to talk. And in

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Speaker 1: order to do that, you can't just be a dumb

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Speaker 1: talent person who shows up and does their job. You

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Speaker 1: got to figure out the business that underlies whatever you're doing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of journalists, um, you know that

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Speaker 1: don't see um the value and and frankly, some journalists

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Speaker 1: don't want a connection, don't want to be pressured. But

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Speaker 1: radio is different. Radio has always been different, always will

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Speaker 1: be different. Audio is different, podcasting digital. Um. Now, I

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Speaker 1: don't consider myself I mean my journalist. Well, I have sources.

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Speaker 1: I call sources every day. UM, So I guess that's

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Speaker 1: part of journalism. But I also consider myself a businessman

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Speaker 1: and a salesperson. And that's just you know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: embarrassed by that. So you said, you go from Vegas,

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Speaker 1: you start doing local television. Did you go to Tampa?

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Speaker 1: How do you make the transition into radio? When did

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Speaker 1: you realize, Hey, I know you said you do play

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Speaker 1: by play of games, and that was kind of your

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Speaker 1: initial dream. But when did you realize, hey, I might

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Speaker 1: be pretty good at radio. Well, um, Vegas didn't really

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Speaker 1: have it right. Talk radio wasn't a thing yet. I

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Speaker 1: did a nightly calling show, I think for about six

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Speaker 1: months on a bad am. But I went to Tampa

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Speaker 1: and I got the weekend sports job. And one of

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Speaker 1: the local sports radio stations had watched me on the air,

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Speaker 1: and I, you know, I always had a little bit

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Speaker 1: more of an ad being local anchor style, and he

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Speaker 1: called and said, hey, would you consider doing you know,

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Speaker 1: sports talk radio? And I said, yeah, I've actually wanted

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Speaker 1: to do it. It's more freedom, it's more time, you

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Speaker 1: can have more depth on topics. So he brought me

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Speaker 1: in and I did it with a late columnist named

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Speaker 1: Hubert Myzel, a wonderful, wonderful man in the South. Hubert,

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Speaker 1: I think one year one National sports writer of the Year.

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Speaker 1: He's just a wonderful guy. Became a good friend, and

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Speaker 1: so I did it for about six months and then

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Speaker 1: I got a break. Um, a man named Rick Scott.

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Speaker 1: I got off the year. One day I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I've ever told you this story. And a guy

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Speaker 1: named Rick Scott called. He was a lived in Seattle.

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Speaker 1: He was a sports consultant, a sports talk radio sports consultant,

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Speaker 1: and there weren't a lot in the country twenty five

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Speaker 1: years ago. So I got off my shift and, uh,

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Speaker 1: my boss, I forget his name, Rob bomb Gartner may

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Speaker 1: have been, said, Hey, there's a call for you from

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Speaker 1: a guy named Rick Scott. So I want to do

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Speaker 1: a ubicle. And Rick Scott said, you don't know me,

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Speaker 1: but I'm a sports talk radio consultant and I and

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Speaker 1: I remember him saying this, um. He said, you have

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Speaker 1: a chance. He goes, you don't know it, but you

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Speaker 1: need to quit television. He said, you have a chance

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Speaker 1: to be Rush Limbaugh in sports. And I hadn't really

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Speaker 1: heard a lot about Rush Limb. I knew who he was.

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Speaker 1: And he said, kid, he goes, you got something. And

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Speaker 1: I'm in town visiting, and I turned you on and

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Speaker 1: I called your boss and I said, who's that guy?

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Speaker 1: And that gay. I don't know what that did, but

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Speaker 1: I remember that day it all changed. I thought, I'm tired.

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Speaker 1: I'm getting tired of TV. Four minutes it just takes

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Speaker 1: forever to produce a four minute show. I don't like

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Speaker 1: reading the teleprompter. I'm not a particularly great reader of

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Speaker 1: the teleprompter. Makeup. Like, I wanted to do something different,

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Speaker 1: and I grew up loving Vince Scully and loving Larry King.

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Speaker 1: I liked radio and Paul Harvey, and so I just

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Speaker 1: said I'm gonna In that moment, I decided that radio

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Speaker 1: was going to be bigger to me than TV, but

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Speaker 1: I just didn't tell anybody. So not long after that

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Speaker 1: I left Campa. Portland hired me and I said I'll

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Speaker 1: come if I can do radio. And I think my

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Speaker 1: first day in Portland, even though I made more money

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Speaker 1: in TV than radio, I really consider radio my future. ESPN.

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Speaker 1: At the time, local TV was shrinking in terms of leverage,

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Speaker 1: in terms of time, in terms of importance, local sports

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Speaker 1: was kind of dying, and I think Portland was when

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Speaker 1: I really said, Okay, this is my new dream. I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna do local sports. I'm gonna do sports talk radio.

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Speaker 1: And this was, let me think it is like twenty

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Speaker 1: three or four years ago, three or four years ago.

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Speaker 1: So I want to go back for a second. That

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Speaker 1: first job you get in UH and this. These are

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Speaker 1: fascinating stories, and I love to unpack them a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that I argue on this

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Speaker 1: is I enjoy talking to everybody and asking them what

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Speaker 1: their salary was when they started in sports or wherever

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Speaker 1: else they were, because I think, I want to kids

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Speaker 1: coming out of college now have outlandish expectations almost immediately

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Speaker 1: about the lifestyle that they're going to be able to live.

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Speaker 1: What did you make when you took that minor league

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Speaker 1: baseball job back in Vegas? My first year, seventy eight

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars. It was below the poverty line, My second

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Speaker 1: year eleven thousand, eight hundred at the poverty line. Third year,

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Speaker 1: I got a local TV job with it. So I

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Speaker 1: was in the thirties. Uh. And at that point I

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Speaker 1: was dating that girl Lad talked about from South Dakota.

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Speaker 1: She was a salesperson. Did very well. We started living together,

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Speaker 1: so I didn't worry about money. Uh. It was the

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Speaker 1: first time, you know, I just wasn't literally putting three

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Speaker 1: dollars of gas in my car, because I did it

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Speaker 1: all through high school, all through college, first two or

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Speaker 1: three years out of college, and so you know, seven

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Speaker 1: eight years of doing that you know, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: just I'm not saying I lived a uh spartan existence

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Speaker 1: others didn't live, but it's tough. And that was the

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Speaker 1: first time, about my third year in Vegas, it was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is I remember one time she had a cabriolet.

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Speaker 1: Remember those cars. Oh yeah, the the Volkswagen Cabriole. And

425
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,639
Speaker 1: she was a beautiful girl. And I remember, uh, she

426
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,640
Speaker 1: picked me up one time and we were in a cabriole.

427
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 1: She just bought a cabriole. And I remember, for the

428
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 1: first time in my life thinking, man, beautiful girl, Vegas,

429
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 1: eighty degrees. Uh, pop down, I've got thirty bucks in

430
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 1: my pocket. I thought I was Pablo Escobar. I was

431
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,120
Speaker 1: I was running a kingdom. So first of my my life,

432
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: I was like, man, I'm really living it. So uh,

433
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 1: you know, it's those are very fond memories. So you

434
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 1: go to Portland and you're starting to think maybe this

435
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 1: pivot to radio could make sense. When do you think

436
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 1: you got good in radio? Because this is something else

437
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: that you have to get a lot of reps. There

438
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 1: are people who are better than not on radio. The

439
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 1: first time they sit down and all that matters. Your

440
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,239
Speaker 1: ceiling can matter, your floor can matter. But when do

441
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: you think you really kind of started to hit your

442
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 1: stride as a radio performer. Well, I got on the

443
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,199
Speaker 1: air at twenty two, and I always felt it was

444
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 1: thirty two years old where I thought I developed my

445
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 1: own voice. At twenty two to thirty, I was Bob Costas,

446
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 1: you know, eight percent, Jim Rome I've been. It was

447
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 1: a little later, maybe nine. I mean I was, you know,

448
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 1: six percent Scully, nine percent, you know, a local sportscaster

449
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 1: who I liked. I was just and I was fifty

450
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,919
Speaker 1: percent me. And then I just started you're on the

451
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: air so much that you just you just become you.

452
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: I was literally just on the air, local TV, local radio,

453
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: on the air, and you just kind of develop your voice.

454
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking in my twenties, uh, you know

455
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,919
Speaker 1: there's stages like in my twenties, I didn't think about national.

456
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: I just wanted to be a great local guy. And

457
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: then in my early thirties thirty three, you know, I

458
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 1: would listen to people that were more prominent than me,

459
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: and I would think, yeah, I think I'm I can

460
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: plan that space and I can remember, I can remember

461
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: this is twenty three years ago. I remember in my

462
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: mid thirties um listening to syndicated sports talk radio. I

463
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 1: was now doing it. I just starting to do it

464
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,640
Speaker 1: like a lot, and I remember thinking, I think I'm

465
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,120
Speaker 1: better than blank blank blank blank. I'm not sure if

466
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: I'm good as that guy, but I'm better than ding

467
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: boom boom boom boom. And that was about mid thirties

468
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,239
Speaker 1: where I was still doing local. But you know, you know,

469
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I'm not Bob Costas at this point,

470
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 1: I'm not Joe Buck, I'm not blank blank. But I

471
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: would look at these big sports companies and there there

472
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: were a lot of people that I were like, They're fine,

473
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: but I'm far. I'm funnier, I'm quicker, I got better stories,

474
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: I'm a better storyteller. You know. I just kind of

475
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 1: felt like I was putting it all together. And then

476
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: it was about that time I started getting my tape.

477
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: I picked up a big agent. I started getting calls

478
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: from like Philadelphia or l A for local news job.

479
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: And then and then then I got the big call,

480
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: which was I think it was like thirty eighty nine

481
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: years old, where I got a call one day. You know,

482
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: I'll a segue into a story here, I got a

483
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: call um trying to think who called me? It may

484
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: have been Rick Scott again. I think it was Rick

485
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: Scott again, the guy who found me and Tampa and

486
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 1: Rick Scott. You know, he called me every other year.

487
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: Every year he said, the best sports radio opening in

488
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: the history of the industry is now available. That's it, pitch.

489
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: He goes, I'm going to recommend you for the job.

490
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: And I said, where is it? And he goes, I

491
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: can't tell you because the guy on the air is

492
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: going to remain on the air for about four months.

493
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: So my initial feeling, because I told Rick before I

494
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: was doing very well in Portland radio TV, I'm not

495
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: leaving for just any job. I thought it was can

496
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 1: b R in San Francisco because my wife at the

497
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: time and I love San Francisco. It's a great stick uh.

498
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: And I had heard their radio morning show. I was

499
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: getting very big numbers in Portland doing morning radio and

500
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: I had heard their morning show was going to be replaced.

501
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: So I thought that what it was. And so for

502
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: six months, I think he was longer than that. I

503
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: a station would call every morning as I was doing

504
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 1: my local show in Portland and they would go on

505
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 1: hold and they would listen to me in a room

506
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: and I never knew who it was. I could just

507
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: see the light on the switchboard on for six months.

508
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: They wanted to listen to me every show, every minute,

509
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: every day for six months, and they did. And so

510
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: after about six months of a lot of questions, a

511
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: lot of phone calls with people, um I said I was.

512
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: Rick Scott said this company wants to fly you to

513
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 1: the super Bowl to talk to you. And I said,

514
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: I'm not going. If you don't tell me who the

515
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: company is, I'm not going. I'm over this. And he

516
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: said it's ESPN and Tony Corneiser leaving and you cannot

517
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: say a word. And I said, well, why would I

518
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: say a word? I want the job. So I went

519
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: there and I interviewed with John Walsh, and I was really, uh,

520
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: not to just bore your audience, but I was pretty

521
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 1: strategic about it. So John Walls was this, uh, brilliant

522
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: kind of the Spengali of ESPN, incredibly well read, probably

523
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 1: the smartest guy in the room. He was a New

524
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: York intellectual and so I thought, okay, I got six days.

525
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: So I read the previous three um New York magazines

526
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: New Yorker, and I made sure that I had read

527
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: because I knew he would read that. All New York

528
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: intellectuals do. I read the New York Times, the New Yorker.

529
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: So when I was in that hour meeting with him

530
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: in my attache case, I'd go, oh, yeah, I got

531
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: a New Yorker. I just read it. And he loved that.

532
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: He was you read that, And I said, oh god,

533
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: every month, did you see last month? Blah blah blah

534
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: blah blah, and he just ate lit up, and I thought, okay,

535
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 1: I got him. And then I had to fly back

536
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: to Portland do Radio Come Back interview with Bruce Gilbert,

537
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: and I knew one of the people I was a

538
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: finalist with. He was a local sportscaster in the country

539
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: and he did guide talk. It could get a little,

540
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 1: you know, a little dicey, so when I went in

541
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: for the interview, I made sure he had interviewed before me.

542
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 1: I made sure. I said, listen, I don't know who

543
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: you're going to hire, but I'll tell you what you

544
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: don't want to hire. With ESPN's brand. You do not

545
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: want to hire a guy that's doing misogynistic racy. You

546
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: have a sports network. I talked sports. I do like

547
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: my gambling. But you know all, I'm gonna tell you

548
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: if I don't get the job, I think a big mistake.

549
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: And I felt like he was listening to me because

550
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: I knew the guy that interviewed a few days earlier

551
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: was all about that. So I rolled the dice and said,

552
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sell John. I'm gonna sell Bruce because I

553
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: knew once I got the job, I was good. I

554
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 1: would work. But the key is, sometimes you don't get

555
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: the job right, you gotta win the interview. So I

556
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: was pretty strategic with both interviews, and sure enough I

557
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 1: got the call. I remember where I was laying when

558
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: I got the call. I was taking a nap, got

559
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: a call, and I remember literally the color of the sheets,

560
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: the room I was in. I was looking at Mount

561
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: Hood through a window when I got the call. And

562
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: how much negotiation was there? Were you basically like, I'll

563
00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: do it well. I was doing very well in Portland,

564
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: but I was working sixty a day. Ye. The money

565
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: was slightly better at the major corporation, but not that

566
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: much better, but my hours. I had a life. Yeah,

567
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: And so you know I worked. I worked six hours

568
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: instead of fourteen to make slightly more money, So it

569
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: was a no brainer. So when you get that call up.

570
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: And this is interesting too, because I want to go

571
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: back to something you said which I think is really interesting.

572
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:28,719
Speaker 1: You were talking about how you know I was an

573
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: okay shooter, I was a you know, just an okay

574
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: quarterback everything else. I think one of the things that

575
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: is so important in success in life is recognizing where

576
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: your strengths are and being able to self analyze in

577
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: a way that is not delusional. And what I mean

578
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: by that is there are lots of people out there

579
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: who went to high school and a guy who is

580
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: no good at all in basketball thinks he's going to

581
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: play in the NBA until he's a senior in high school, right,

582
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: and you're like, dude, you are delusional. Knowing where your

583
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: talents are and being able to self analyze your town

584
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: it's relative to other people is an important skill. You

585
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: mentioned that you were able to listen to other people

586
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: doing a job that you did and kind of classify

587
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: yourself as being as good or better than they are.

588
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: I think that's a big asset and attribute. Was that

589
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: something that kind of came naturally to you and being

590
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: able to recognize where your strengths are or how did

591
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: you develop that skill? Well, I to be honest with you,

592
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: I think the breakthrough year for me was three years old,

593
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: and not only had I been on the air and

594
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: had enough reps to develop my own style, but I

595
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: think at that point in my life, what really was

596
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: the breakthrough moment for me is not realizing what I am.

597
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: It was realizing what I wasn't. And at thirty two

598
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: and thirty three years old, I knew what I could

599
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: do well, but I was willing to acknowledge. Okay, I

600
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: don't want to sit in locker rooms and try to

601
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: be a journalist. Local TV is three minutes. It's too dumb.

602
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: I'm only with news directors that don't get it. And

603
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: I kind of realized I'm not as good as these

604
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: play by play guys. I don't like the travel of

605
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: play by play. I don't like the work of journalism

606
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: and sitting in locker rooms with athletes who are giving

607
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: you pit the answers. And I think in that early

608
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: twenties and thirties, I was like, listen, I'm an opinion guy.

609
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: What am I chasing all these other platforms for this

610
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: is what I do well. I make people laugh, I

611
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: make people think. And I just said, I'm not this.

612
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be Joe Buck. I'm not going

613
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: to be you know, uh, this journalist. And I kind

614
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: of acknowledged it. I just and I don't know if

615
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: it's maturity, but I was just like, listen, man, I'm

616
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 1: not I'm not elite at this stuff. I mean, did

617
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: local TV for fourteen years. I was good, but I'm

618
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: not a teleprompter guy. But I did feel if you

619
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: put me in a room with sportscasters and you just

620
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: had to tell a good joke, a good story, I

621
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: would rise. And so in that early thirty three age,

622
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: I was like, you know that, man, it wasn't just

623
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: about what I was, It was really what I wasn't.

624
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: And I just like, listen, man, I need to surround

625
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: myself even now, Clay, when I do my show in

626
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: my room, I surround myself with people who fill in

627
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: gaps that I don't do well. My staff is all

628
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: guys who do stuff like tech. I got a couple

629
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: of really young techie people. I got a joke writer.

630
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: I have a guest booker Um. My weakness is my

631
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: land mines. I build a staff that solves all, you know,

632
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: the fissures, the weaknesses, the liabilities in my game. What

633
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: I do well. You know, you can help me polish

634
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: sandpaper my rants, but I'm good at that. What I

635
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: need help in is boom boom boom boom boom, and

636
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: that's what I hire. So you have to come to

637
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: terms with I'm not an expert of everything. Jesus Michael

638
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: Jordan couldn't hit a curve. Roy Jones Jr. And Randy

639
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: Moss try to play basketball didn't work. Who's great at

640
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: two things? Outside of bo Jackson? Like this idea that

641
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: you can do everything? You can't? You know, the heart

642
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: surgeon wouldn't be as good a baby doctor. Like there's

643
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: a certain personality that works for certain positions. So you

644
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: just just I think, once you get good at something

645
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: and acknowledging I'm not great at blank. I don't have

646
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: the temperament the patients. I don't like travel like play

647
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: by play for me, I liked it. I hated the travel.

648
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: Who wants to be in Cincinnati in the summer twelve

649
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: Daisy year? You know, can you imagine me I mean,

650
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: I look at some of these baseball announcers forget to

651
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: play by play just the lifestyle. I like to go

652
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: water ski in the summer. I just knew play by

653
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: play baseball I eliminated based on the lifestyle. It wouldn't fit.

654
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: I wanted to have kids and I wanted to have

655
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: my summers off. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports

656
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows

657
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I

658
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app. Search f s R to listen live.

659
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: We're talking to Colin Cowhard. This is the Wins and

660
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: Losses Podcast. So let's go back to you get the

661
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: call up, you get the job at ESPN. How nervous

662
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: were you as you prepared to replay East Tony Kornheiser,

663
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: because at the time, this is kind of a pre

664
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: social media era. They're pulling you out of what I

665
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: would call the minor leagues. And I don't mean that

666
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: in a pejorative sense Portland's, but you're a high level

667
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: minor league player. And I like to tell the analogy

668
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: of as I was working up in my career. You know,

669
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: there's a Triple A baseball team in Nashville and I

670
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: remember being there one night. This is probably a decade,

671
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, maybe something around that time ago, and I

672
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: remember watching the guys just get heckled like crazy and feeling,

673
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: in particular hit kinship with the minor league guys at

674
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: Triple A because at that time I was a Triple

675
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: A player, right, really, I thought pretty good. But you're

676
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: not sure if you're gonna get that opportunity to make

677
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: a play at the big leagues, just like those minor

678
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: league Triple A baseball players. So you take that step

679
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: from doing really well in the market in Portland's too

680
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: suddenly you're gonna be nationwide. How nervous were you? How

681
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: did you evolve? Because one of the things I've learned

682
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: is what got you there isn't necessarily all the time

683
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: going to keep you there. Well, it's interesting because you know,

684
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: in our business, you don't get long stretches of you know,

685
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: it's hard for you and I it's hard for me

686
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: to go to Europe. I don't get toll straight nas off.

687
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: Two times in my life I've gotten six weeks off

688
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: when I've when I've transitioned to jobs. So I was

689
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: local and I got six weeks off before I started

690
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: at ESPM. So I really sat down and I said

691
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: to myself, who works in syndicated radio and not just sports?

692
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: Who works? And Rush Limball was the king and I

693
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: and I came down and I listened to Rush Limball.

694
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: I thought, Okay, the key to Rush Limbaugh is he

695
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: only talks about two teams, Root and Blue. I've got

696
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to reduce the number of teams.

697
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: And so in the six week period, you know, I

698
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: just had a lot of these cigars on the porch right,

699
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 1: like a lot of time by myself, like, Okay, how

700
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 1: do I make it work. I'm a West Coast kid

701
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: replacing Tony Corneer. I'm not going to be popular in

702
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: the Northeast. He's a Northeast intellectual. I do like college football.

703
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: So I'll work in the South, which I did initially

704
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and I'll work pretty well in the West

705
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: because I'm a West Coast kid. But I thought, Macro,

706
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to become a syndicated radio guy. So when

707
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 1: local it's largely about talking about three or four teams

708
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: national the assumption as you got to talk about fifty.

709
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: But I made it. I made a decision. I wrote

710
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 1: down on a piece of paper what I believe with

711
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: the fifteen biggest sports brand in the country Yankees, Lakers, Celtics, Steelers, Packers, Cowboys,

712
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 1: and then I had like, next to it, the fifteen

713
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 1: most influential athletes, and then I started crossing them out

714
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: and reducing it, reducing it until I got to about

715
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: twelve total athletes and teams, and I said, that's what

716
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. I'm not going to talk about underdogs

717
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: because ratings show that nobody wants Duke to lose. People

718
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: say they want Duke to lose, but Duke loses in

719
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: the college basketball radings go down. And I always had

720
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: good access to ratings because I was a TV and

721
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: radio guy and got along with salespeople who gave me

722
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: ratings in and so I decided my brand was going

723
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: to be I'm gonna root for favorites. Every other sportscaster

724
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 1: roots for underdogs. I hate underdogs. If I if everybody

725
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: wanted underdogs to win, why do we play the lottery?

726
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: Because we all want to be rich, we all want

727
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: to be favorites. So I picked about twelve teams and

728
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: I said, in a handful of stars, and that's what

729
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. So I kind of went to what

730
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: Limbaugh and I thought, the fewer teams, I talked about

731
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: the bigger brands, This makes way more sense. And then

732
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: over the course of my career at ESPN UM, I

733
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: took a lot of research from I always thought it

734
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: was the biggest advantage of working there. They did. I

735
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: had a great research department in Barry Blend, and I

736
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: would take a lot of his information and ask them

737
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: constantly for meetings and what's happening, what's happening. And what

738
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: I found halfway through my ESPN stay is that millennials

739
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: and younger people no longer rooted for teams. They rooted

740
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 1: for players. And this happened about twelve years ago. My daughters,

741
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: she cares about Kobe. She didn't care about the Lakers.

742
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: You know, my son cares about Lebron. He didn't care

743
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: at the Calves or the Lakers. And so younger people,

744
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: and I've done well through my career with eighteen to

745
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: thirty eight year old people. They now care more about

746
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: the individual than the team. It's Hardened over the Rockets,

747
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: it's Westbrook over the thunder. And so I started halfway

748
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: through my ESPN career, transitioning to talking about teams more

749
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 1: talking about individuals and player Brady Lebron, Mahomes, Luck Wilson, Rodgers.

750
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: I don't talk Packers, I talk Aaron, and so again

751
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: I transition with new information. Uh. Just I always think

752
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: early adapters win. I think they went in baseball with analytics,

753
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: they went in the NBA with analytics. You know, you

754
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: and I are very similar in that regard. We're both

755
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: kind of looking for the next thing. We don't live

756
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 1: in the rear view mirror. We don't we're not loyal

757
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 1: to platforms, were not loyal to sports, and so I

758
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: just I just kept evolving how I was doing the business.

759
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 1: I still feel today, I'm you know, it's so fluid.

760
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm still learning how to do this thing. I'm still

761
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: every year I have a couple of meetings with the

762
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: staff and I'm like, let's get rid of this, let's

763
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: do more of this that's not working, Let's make this work.

764
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: So I think you have to be willing, like like,

765
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to be one of these guys that

766
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: make some money and figures. Oh I know all the answers.

767
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: I don't. I've literally received tweets and emails through the

768
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: years from listeners and been like Wow, that's really interesting

769
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: and implemented that into my businesses. I'll take information from anywhere.

770
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if if a caller hits on something

771
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: in Twitter, I don't need to respond to Twitter. Sometimes

772
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 1: I'll go through my Twitter and somebody will make a

773
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: point and I'm like, God, that's a really good idea.

774
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: That's really out of the box. Nobody in my industry

775
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: does that. So anywhere I can get information to get better,

776
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: I will. You know, it's interesting because I say the

777
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: advantage that I had in analytics from a writing perspective

778
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 1: was I saw immediately the side traffic when I started

779
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: my own website in a way that I don't think

780
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: either early on writers are paying attention to or anything else.

781
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: And it's not rocket science, right. What you get that

782
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: people respond to, you give them more of it, and

783
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: then you figure out how to keep giving him more

784
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: and more of it. And what I would say is

785
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: television has actually kind of worked this way to now.

786
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: If you put on the news, you get the two

787
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: or three biggest news stories over and over again, right,

788
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people still do radio. Okay,

789
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 1: there's ten or twelve segments in a three hour show.

790
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do ten or twelve different stories. And that's

791
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: a disaster because people don't care about ten or twelve

792
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: different stories, don't you know? There there is the I

793
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: remember when I took the local Portland TV job, I

794
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: replaced a really talented guy named Steve Bartlestein. Steve was

795
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: terrific talent, much more talent than I was. He went

796
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: on to CNN in New York, a big star in

797
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: New York, and he was a big, big believer in

798
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 1: like cover everything. And I remember my first meeting. I said, guys,

799
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: we're covering the Ducks, the Beavers, the Seahawks, high school football,

800
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: and I'll do opinions. That's it. And they're like, what

801
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: about the field good? And I'm like, nobody cares. I said,

802
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: we're covering five things. We're going a mile deep, and

803
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: that's what we're doing. And that's always worked well. You know,

804
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: people will say a lot of things, I do not

805
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: watch porn. It's the only thing that makes money on

806
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: the internet, you know, people, I am by the way

807
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 1: of all Internet traffic at any given moment in America

808
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: is porn. People say a lot people consume the same

809
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: ship over and over. They love the NFL. They love

810
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 1: major college football, uh increasingly, they love the World Cups

811
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: men and women, you and I both do. They like

812
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: October baseball. They like the NBA free agency in the finals.

813
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: Let's not nothing against lacrosse. But you know this idea

814
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: that you know every sport deserves. No, they don't. You

815
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: and I are grocery stores. Going to a grocery store

816
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: by the same nine things, milk, bananas, strawberries, blueberries, eggs, bread,

817
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it's I and I look at

818
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: my business like a grocery store. When I talk college football,

819
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,720
Speaker 1: I talked the top four teams in the SEC Oklahoma,

820
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: Ohio State, Michigan, and one team out West. I'm not talking.

821
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not wasting my time on Kentucky college basketball.

822
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: Do Carolina Kentucky? You know, thanks for flying United. You

823
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: know it's it's about four brands, Max, anybody cares about

824
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: so play the hits. It is funny too. When I

825
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: was at FanHouse before I started my own site, the

826
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: Brett farv Willie or Won'ty comeback from retirement, and I

827
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: remember being able to look at the data because we

828
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: would get the data on the most read stories and

829
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: all over social media. People are like, I'm so sick

830
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,720
Speaker 1: of Brett Farve. That was early days of social media.

831
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 1: Why does so many people talk about Brett Farve? Why

832
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: is there all this breadth Farve coverage? And sometimes you

833
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: can get seduced by the elite, right, like I think

834
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: Rupert Murdock says, be wary of trying to make the

835
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 1: elite happy. Um. And and then I got the data

836
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: and I'm like, holy cow. The minute we put up

837
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: anything about Brett Farve, people click on it so fast.

838
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: It's like their mouses would break back in the day.

839
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: You know, you're sitting there on the computer, and the

840
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,919
Speaker 1: same thing happens with with social media seeing what people

841
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: are able to click through, and it's so freely. What

842
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 1: they say they don't want, they actually do. Well. Listen,

843
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: I went back their heads and seeing it. Yeah, you know,

844
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: I have an advantage. So most radio shows, um, you

845
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: know there were simulcast. That's a big advantage. So every

846
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: day the following day on cable, I can get minute

847
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: by minute ratings. Okay, so I know it works and

848
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: I know it doesn't. So if something doesn't work back

849
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: to back times. I get rid of it. I used

850
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: to do something called hunch and lunch and it started

851
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: to deteriorate and it was too much about me and

852
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: not about the audience. I bailed on it. If I

853
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,479
Speaker 1: bail on something, it's not working. If I keep doing

854
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: something calling right Colin wrong, it provides a number every week.

855
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: So I don't have a problem looking at my rating

856
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: slash polling like a politician and saying the audience doesn't

857
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: like it. Listen, how arrogant would I be to say

858
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: I am smarter than the audience despite the fact they

859
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 1: don't care. I'm gonna keep jamming this product down their

860
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: throat the minute my audience is tired of something, I

861
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 1: stopped talking about it. This past year, Lebron got hurt,

862
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: and I, you know, and I talked a lot of Lebron.

863
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: But I went to Manhattan Beach. There was this workout

864
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: club and the Lakers were on without Lebron, and I

865
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: was at a sports bar and the Lakers were on.

866
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: There was nothing else on, and nobody in Los Angeles

867
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 1: at the sports bar was watching the Lakers. And so

868
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 1: I walked into the morning meeting and I said, guys,

869
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: were done with Lebron talk, Well, why I don't want

870
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: to see another story. L A doesn't care. If l

871
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 1: A doesn't care, then Kentucky doesn't care, then Candice doesn't care.

872
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: So I'm always looking on a daily basis what does

873
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: the audience? What interest them? And the more something does,

874
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: the more I plan it, And then when they get

875
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: fatigued off it, I move off it. Be sure to

876
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: catch live editions about kick the Coverage with Clay Travis

877
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: week days at six am Eastern, three am Pacific. We're

878
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: talking to Colin cow This is Wins and Losses. I'm

879
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: Clay Travis. So you build up your career in a

880
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: big way at ESPN, start to have a tremendous amount

881
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: of success with the Herd. You go into television again,

882
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: but it's a different kind of television than the local

883
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: news that you had done before. How would you assess

884
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: and now you do the simulcast, which is radio and

885
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: television simultaneously, how would you assess the differences and the challenges.

886
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: What makes you good in radio might not translate to

887
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 1: television and vice versa. What are the challenges? What are

888
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: the differences that you have found in those two disciplines. Well,

889
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: I always I always feel like each medium has a

890
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: different I was in a meeting one time pitching a

891
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: show to a Hollywood guy and we were talking about this.

892
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: We've got in this really interesting, fascinating conversation and I

893
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: forget his name, but he had a current. In fact,

894
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: I think he was doing he was producing Craig Ferguson

895
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 1: show Wendy Williams show, and he'd talked to me about

896
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: possibly doing something like this and it didn't really interest me,

897
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: but we a good discussions, and I said, I always

898
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: feel like radio is storytelling, books are be smart, Twitter

899
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: is clever, and TVs about being dynamic. Now, sopranos may

900
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: have dynamic storylines, dynamic characters, dynamic you know the show

901
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: you like, Game of Thrones, you know it's it's dynamic

902
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: in in many of its elements. Televan usion is, you know,

903
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: not about likability. I mean Simon Cow was not likable,

904
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: he was dynamic. He made you anxious on the air,

905
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: who is he going to rip? Paula Abdul was prettier

906
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: and nicer, flap Nobody cared what she said. It was

907
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: about Simon Cow. The performers, the audience, he left that show,

908
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: same show ratings. Tag Um televisions about dynamic basketball players,

909
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: dynamic quarterbacks, dynamic personalities, America's got talent, America's voice. Dynamic

910
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: radio is about storytelling. So when I do when I

911
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 1: do as sigmul cast, I have to make my stories

912
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 1: a little shorter and slightly more dynamic and so and

913
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: I think we're one of the only places in the

914
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: country where we're doing it radio on TV and it's

915
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 1: working for both. And we had four or fourth straight

916
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: year double digit growth in TV and radio. So when

917
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: you're doing both, If I was just doing radio, my

918
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: stories would be longer. If I was just doing TV,

919
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 1: I'd worry about being dynamic. So I try to balance

920
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 1: both where I still tell stories, but they can't be

921
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: two and a half minutes. They gotta be fifty four seconds.

922
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,720
Speaker 1: And I am going to be a little more theatrical

923
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: in a simulcast because I have to be slightly more

924
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: dynamic for the television presentation. My voice will go up,

925
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: my octave range will go up and down. I'll be

926
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 1: a little I'll use my hands more. I am aware.

927
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: You know there's five timbers and acting. We're all performing.

928
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 1: We're all wearing makeup, So I think I'm a little

929
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: more of a performer on TV and a little more

930
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,919
Speaker 1: of a storyteller on radio. How did you decide when

931
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: you said you built up all this success, You've had

932
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: a good measure of of opportunity at ESPN, they want

933
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 1: you to stay. Your contract is coming up. Fox comes

934
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: after you. I know you considered other different career trajectories.

935
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: How did you get to that point where you have

936
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: a lot of options? How did you decide to go

937
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: to Fox? Well, year before it was it was cold,

938
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: and I think I've told this story before somebody I was,

939
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: my wife and I were sitting I remember she was

940
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: wearing she was wearing this kind of feet through blue

941
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: drube top, real beautiful with a white like an undershirt,

942
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: and she was she just got her hair done, beautiful redhead.

943
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: And we're sitting there having a glass of wine. And

944
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: she's an artist, so that we were looking at art

945
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: and the you know, she's just a really cool designer.

946
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: And the snow was halfway up the window and she

947
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: turned to me and she's really honest with me. You know,

948
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: she's of any person in my life. Uh, there's not

949
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 1: a lot of bullshit with my wife Irish school, you know,

950
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: cut to the chase and she said, you know you've

951
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: just you don't have the n of G at this

952
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 1: company that you did when I first met you. And

953
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: I said, I know. I said, I've lost something. And

954
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: she asked me a really poignant question. I can honestly

955
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: remember the moment, big glass of cab we both had it,

956
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: and she goes, um, are you awhere you want to

957
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: be and are you doing what you want to do?

958
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 1: And I looked at her and I can get emotional

959
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 1: and I said, wow, No, that is an amazingly in

960
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: depth but direct question right that everybody out there listening

961
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: right now should ask. And I said no and no,

962
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: and she looked at me and she said, let's go

963
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: to Realtor dot com. We got a big move and

964
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,879
Speaker 1: that night we went to Realtor dot Com. I said,

965
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 1: I want to move to l A. I had a friend,

966
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: Jamie Horowitz, who had left the ESPN, and I asked

967
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: him what his future was. He was kind of a

968
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: free agent at the time, and he said, I'm either

969
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: going to go into production or go to Fox. And

970
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: I said, oh, I love Fox because I grew up

971
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: in the West Coast. I watched a lot of Fox,

972
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: and I always kind of respected sort of how they

973
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: build brands. And you know, everybody always doubted Fox. They

974
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: doubted the Simptons, Simpsons, Uh, they doubted you know, Fox News,

975
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: every you know, the Fox Business Channel. Everybody always doubts Fox.

976
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: You know, stuff works, and so I was like Wow.

977
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: So we went on realtor dot Com. I went to

978
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 1: Manhattan Beach where I had friends, and we started looking

979
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: at schools and we started looking at houses. And that

980
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: was like January after a snowstorm. And then we had

981
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: to wait for stuff happening, and I just couldn't take

982
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: my mind off it. It just couldn't take my mind

983
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,320
Speaker 1: off it. And then I made a move with an agent.

984
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 1: I went out and found the best agent I thought

985
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: in the country, Nick Ton. I met him in New

986
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: York and and I said there was he and Jeff Jacobs.

987
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 1: I met him at a Chinese restaurant in New York

988
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: and I said, I want to change my life. And

989
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: that was represented by the A. And they said, okay,

990
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: there's a new company and I said okay. So that

991
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff had to kind of get put

992
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 1: in place, and at the TIMEFS one had these two

993
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: Canadian guys, very very nice guys, very funny guys, doing

994
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: their thing. But it wasn't kind of working, and so

995
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: I just kind of waited. It was this summer. It

996
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: was the summer, and then um I flew out to

997
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. I was still working at the other place,

998
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 1: and I had talked to my agent and I said,

999
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: I want to meet these guys, and they wanted to

1000
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 1: meet me, and they made a pitch. Fox Eric Shanks

1001
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: was in it, and it was a very complete pitch.

1002
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: They talked about insurance, how I would be paid. I

1003
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 1: could have a corporation to mitigate some tax issues. It

1004
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:45,240
Speaker 1: was a complete pitch, and I reached across the table.

1005
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 1: It was in June, and I shook Eric Shanks's hand,

1006
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: and I shook Jamie's hand, and I said, you got me.

1007
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 1: Let's go to work. So then I had another Now

1008
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: I had to figure out how the hell because I

1009
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 1: was still in her contract. The other place left under contract. Well,

1010
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 1: I had six months, but ESPN was in a cost

1011
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: cutting mode, so my agent was able to get them.

1012
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: They made a couple of pitches to me, but my agent,

1013
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,720
Speaker 1: I had made up my mind and then I told

1014
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: them eventually, I don't know a month later. In fact,

1015
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: you could google it. Uh. They let out a press

1016
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: release that said, you know, John Skipper was like, congratulations,

1017
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,359
Speaker 1: great career. We really appreciate it. And then I got

1018
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: bumpy at the end. They were pissed. They came back,

1019
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 1: made another offer, and you know, there's this controversy of

1020
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: Colin was you know, fired this, and that I had

1021
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: already accepted jobs. It was already done, and um, you know,

1022
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 1: and so and then I had like six weeks off

1023
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: until I started at FS one, which was my second

1024
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: six week break, and I hung out at the beach,

1025
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 1: body served and for the first time in my life,

1026
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 1: took a deep breath and enjoy life, um, in my

1027
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 1: professional life. So that was a long story, I hope

1028
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: not boring. Your podcast numbers are plummeting right now until

1029
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: the alright, last question. I want to get into our

1030
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: last couple of questions here your process for getting your

1031
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,879
Speaker 1: show ready. So for people out there, I mean, I'm

1032
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: sure most people listening know this, but we talked about

1033
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: the simulcast. You drive into the Fox lot in l

1034
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: A at what time you wake up, You go in,

1035
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 1: you get your meetings done? What is the process by

1036
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 1: which your three hour show, which is both the radio

1037
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: and television comes to life each day? Five? Get up, shower,

1038
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 1: out the door by five thirty three, twenty minute drive,

1039
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: one minute drive to the lot, get in, put my

1040
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:39,399
Speaker 1: contacts in, UM, grab a hot coffee, go down five

1041
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:45,280
Speaker 1: six until about eight fifty do prep, go in, get

1042
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: my hair done, a little night makeup. What is your

1043
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,399
Speaker 1: what is your prep consist of? So from that six

1044
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: to eight fifteen process in the morning on the West coast,

1045
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: which is like nine to eleven fifteen ish, I guess

1046
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: on the East coast, what does that prep consist of? Um?

1047
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 1: The consists of about seven to eight people in a

1048
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 1: room a little bit like a sports bar with smart guys,

1049
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: no drinking, and UM. I come in with my thoughts

1050
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: on stories. I've got a guy that's a funny guy,

1051
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:18,720
Speaker 1: two stat guys, two producers, and anybody can have an opinion.

1052
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: I talk out loud, I write notes. People say, I'll

1053
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 1: say hey, but listen. Give me Andrew lux numbers his

1054
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 1: third year in the NFL. I'm writing notes. I've got

1055
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,320
Speaker 1: a couple of pens, yellow markers, this and that double

1056
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 1: underlying things I want to pop on the air, Um,

1057
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, yellow things, transition commentary. I've got my own

1058
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,760
Speaker 1: little way, my own little maze of you know, verbal

1059
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: cues and visual cues I have, And then we just

1060
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: sit there and for about two and a half hours,

1061
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 1: we just um kind of do a show before a show. Um.

1062
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: I kind of believe that you have to take the

1063
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: audience somewhere every segment. I don't have to make you happy.

1064
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: Can I make you laugh, make you cringe, make you think?

1065
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: But I gotta take people somewhere. I hear too many

1066
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 1: sports radio guys that turn it on and they're just

1067
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,240
Speaker 1: you know, shooting a bowl and they're not as funny

1068
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: as they think they are. They're not as captivating, and

1069
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 1: they're not going anywhere. I believe if you give me

1070
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: eight minutes, I owe you you're going to work. I

1071
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: owe you eight f and minutes of hard work. I'm

1072
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 1: not mailing it in. I owe you. You've given me

1073
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 1: an opera, You've come into my store. The least I

1074
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:32,479
Speaker 1: can do for you, the consumer, is to have eight

1075
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 1: minutes of thoughtful commentary on something. Take people somewhere, tell

1076
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: them a story, so we don't go into a segment,

1077
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 1: not having an idea where we're going. We may sound

1078
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:47,359
Speaker 1: like sometimes I'm just ad libbing. Robin Williams sounds like

1079
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,240
Speaker 1: he's ad libbing. Robin Williams knew he had a forty

1080
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: two minutes set, knew where it would start, the middle,

1081
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: and the end. Never forget you know, David Lennerman didn't

1082
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: write those jokes. He's performing jokes written. So the art

1083
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 1: of it is, I'm just add living here for three hours.

1084
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:08,280
Speaker 1: But to me, to do a simulcast radio and TV,

1085
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: if you don't have prep, if you don't take the

1086
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: audience somewhere, they can't simultaneously coexistent work. Now, when you

1087
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 1: have a show, and this is interesting, do you have like,

1088
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: for instance, I'm going to do lock it In, and

1089
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:21,840
Speaker 1: we do Lock it In every Monday to Friday. And

1090
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 1: for people out there who don't know how television works,

1091
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: we have an A block, which is the open of

1092
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: the show before we go to break. We have a

1093
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 1: B block, and we lay out the entire show so

1094
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: we know exactly where we're going for the entire hour.

1095
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: Do you know where you're going all three hours of

1096
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: your show by the time you sit down in the chair. Yeah,

1097
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 1: it has been laid out, just like just like it

1098
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: would have been when you did speak for yourself, for

1099
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 1: when you did Sports Nation. Yeah, I kind of know

1100
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: where I'm going now. What I do is I do

1101
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 1: all my prep and then I tell my staff. I say, okay,

1102
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 1: I generally know my lead, and then I tell the

1103
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: staff you put them in order. You guys are producer.

1104
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 1: You tell me what you guys think are the most interesting.

1105
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: To the lead, it's interesting. So I let my staff

1106
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,439
Speaker 1: do that. I'll do the prep. I usually say this

1107
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: is the lead. In fact, the first two stories of

1108
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: the day, the first ten minutes. I'm usually like, this

1109
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: is why I feel strongly about Then I kind of

1110
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: let the staff tell me, you know, they'll give me

1111
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: a list. I never asked about guests until I'm leaving

1112
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: the meeting, like who's on the show today? And then

1113
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: they'll tell me, you know, they'll they'll place the guests

1114
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: based on my rants and where we're going. How let

1115
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,320
Speaker 1: the staff do that? But um, yeah, I've got a

1116
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: pretty good sense where I'm going now. I always I

1117
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: always tell everybody we love breaking news because I think

1118
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: my team does a really good job on breaking news.

1119
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: My ideal show is I have a show for about

1120
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: an hour and a half and an hour and a

1121
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: half in there's breaking news, because I just think the

1122
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 1: juice of that, the energy of that is fun, you know,

1123
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: instead of just doing a three hour show, which I knew.

1124
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:45,280
Speaker 1: I like doing an hour and a half of prepared

1125
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: stuff and then oh god, Andrew Luck retires and then

1126
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: my staff scrambles, we get guests, the show is wrong.

1127
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:54,879
Speaker 1: I love that I can do that. I just don't

1128
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: think you build a show like that. You can't hope

1129
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 1: for that. But that will happen fifteen times a year,

1130
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 1: and I love that. And that's often our highest ratings,

1131
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,879
Speaker 1: breaking news, and my staff is just you know, they're

1132
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: just paddling like mad below the surfaces. I'm I'm trying

1133
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: to be cool and collected, and we're booking guests and

1134
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: they're in my ear and screw Brees online too, and

1135
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: oh my god, we got a reporter. That's a lot

1136
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 1: of fun. It doesn't happen a lot. You can't rely

1137
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: on that, But I love that Fox Sports Radio has

1138
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all

1139
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: of our shows at Fox sports radio dot com and

1140
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: within the I Heart Radio app. Search f s R

1141
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 1: to listen live alright, last couple of questions here that

1142
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 1: I'll let you kind of think about where things are

1143
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: going for the forward future. I'm Clay Travis. This is

1144
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: Wins and Losses. We're talking with Colin Cowherd. How big

1145
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: is gambling gonna be? Where is FS one and Fox

1146
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: sports in general? In your mind? Headed well, and gambling

1147
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 1: is just going to grow as long as sports the

1148
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: longest states don't overregulate it. We've seen some of that

1149
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 1: with poker. The conservative states, uh, you know, and I

1150
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 1: don't mean like politically conservatively. The ones that are heavy regulation,

1151
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: you know, concerned that you know, the gambling is a

1152
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: disease and they'll be addicts, and they overregulated. Those states

1153
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: won't succeed, you know. The states like perhaps Jersey that

1154
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: just says, hey, someone win, some will lose. Here's the games,

1155
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: go betterm. It will flourish in those states. It will

1156
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: continue to grow. I don't know if it's a gold rush,

1157
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: but it's I'm already seeing I'm already able to monetize

1158
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: a couple of different things in that space. So I

1159
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: think it's going to grow. I think you and I

1160
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: have always had a real interest in it, and I

1161
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: think you and I will do both very well. I

1162
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 1: don't think everybody will. We're also at the company Fox,

1163
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: which is much more entrepreneuri It's the most entrepreneurial places

1164
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 1: I've ever worked, that's got the best management I've ever

1165
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 1: worked for, very very supportive. So I think it's gonna grow.

1166
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: FS one is um and Listen. We're gonna have our

1167
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: fourth straight year of double digit growth right now. The

1168
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: part of the company that's growing faster than anything else

1169
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 1: is our is our shows faster than our games. UM. Listen.

1170
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 1: There's not a lot available on the market now, most

1171
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: of the good stuff that's been gobbled up. UM. And

1172
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: so I think it's it's, you know, trying to keep

1173
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 1: our shows growing. UM. You know, cross your fingers on

1174
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: the XFL. If that helps. That's certainly an eight to

1175
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: ten weeks spot for you and I. That's kind of dead. Uh.

1176
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 1: So XFL could help for us. And maybe you know

1177
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: this conference or that conference or this sport and that

1178
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 1: sport comes available in the next two years, uh, and

1179
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 1: you go out. We're certainly a smaller company now in

1180
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 1: terms of scale based on selling our movie division, but

1181
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: I think we're nimble. Bigger is not always better, but

1182
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: faster is always better than slower. I think we're really fast,

1183
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: really nimble, good turning radius, and we'll move quickly and

1184
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: gobble up what's available. Um And I think we're in

1185
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: a good spot. Again. We're We're not We're not this monstrosity,

1186
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: this behemoth, that's not what we are anymore. But I

1187
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: think we are much faster and more nimble. And I

1188
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: trust our management to buy the right things, promote the

1189
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 1: right stuff, and I think we're in a good space.

1190
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: It's calling Calhern. This has been wins and losses. Last

1191
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: last little bit for you, because we've got a lot

1192
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 1: of young people who listen that are interested in sports.

1193
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of your lessons that you

1194
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 1: have learned over life apply regardless of what you do

1195
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: for a living. Let's pretend that there's somebody listening to

1196
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: us right now that just graduated from college. Your number

1197
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: one piece of advice to that young listener would be

1198
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: what well, I'm always reluctant with advice. I give opinions

1199
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 1: because my life isn't your life. I mean, God, you

1200
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 1: went to law school, you live on an island, so

1201
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: my advice may not work for somebody else. My strongest

1202
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 1: opinions are, UM, be aggressive, UM, be kind. Everybody will

1203
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: come back around. Just because you can do something fire

1204
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: somebody doesn't mean you should. UM. Be good to people.

1205
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: The word gets out everybody. I'm thirty years ago. I

1206
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:04,919
Speaker 1: meet him again, way up, way down. UM, work your

1207
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: tail off. Be aggressive, perhaps not to a fault, but

1208
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 1: it's better to knock on one extra door than one

1209
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 1: too few. UM. And be willing to learn. Be willing

1210
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 1: to be coachable. People want to hire young people. They're cheap.

1211
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 1: Don't pretend like you know it all. Be coachable. How

1212
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 1: Brady's coachable? Like be coachable? You don't know it all. Um.

1213
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 1: And the one piece of advice I would give to

1214
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 1: everybody in our business. God, I feel strongly about this.

1215
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 1: Half dozen times a year. You probably do this. You

1216
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: go speak to broadcasters, right, I just did that in

1217
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 1: l A about three months ago. Don't let Twitter produce

1218
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:50,959
Speaker 1: your show. It's not America, it's further left, it's crazy town.

1219
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 1: It's overreactionary. Produce your own content based on your values,

1220
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 1: your principles, and your tuition. Do not go to Twitter

1221
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: and think that everything they think's a big deal is

1222
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 1: a big deal. It's not go with your heart, go

1223
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: with your gut. What are your buddies talking about? When

1224
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 1: my buddies and I would go for a run and

1225
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 1: they stopped asking about Kaepernick, I stopped talking about Kaepernick.

1226
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 1: The rest of Twitter talked about it to this day, like,

1227
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 1: don't listen, that's that's not a slight. Nobody. None of

1228
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 1: my friends who are in business where most of my

1229
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 1: friends are are on that thing all day. It's overwhelmingly

1230
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: Hollywood and media people. So you know, don't you know?

1231
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 1: My daughter asked me something here day. We were talking

1232
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 1: about the difference between brands and followings. I see go

1233
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: to Arizona State, and I said, you could get the

1234
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 1: girl that looks great in a bikini and puts it

1235
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 1: all over social media will get more followers, but nobody

1236
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 1: wants that as a brand. No corporations hiring her as

1237
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 1: a brand. Because they hire her. You go to her

1238
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 1: social media and she's take it on her Instagram. I said,

1239
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 1: don't be consumed with followers, be consumed with your brand.

1240
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 1: What are you telling people who are you? Like? What

1241
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 1: do you stand for? Don't worry about your find I

1242
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 1: don't give a rip how many followers I have on Twitter,

1243
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 1: But I have a brand I'm gonna play too. And

1244
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: you know, my daughter and I got into this conversation

1245
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,320
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you're too caught up in followers. She

1246
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: goes those nobody's making a billion dollars on YouTube outside

1247
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:28,920
Speaker 1: of Ninja. Don't don't listen to that crap. Show me

1248
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 1: the tax returns. Like worry about building a long term, thoughtful, decent, empathetic, curious,

1249
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 1: interesting brand that may not have the most followers, and

1250
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 1: trust your intuition. Don't don't trust some random guy on

1251
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 1: an Angry Bird what he's declaring daily on Twitter. That

1252
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 1: is a perfect ending to this podcast that has great advice.

1253
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: He is calling Cowherd. I am Clay Travis. This has

1254
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 1: been wins and losses. If you like it, give us

1255
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: a rating, share it with your friends, and if you

1256
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 1: like this conversation, you'll probably like a lot of the

1257
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 1: other conversations as well. Colin. I appreciate the time continued success,

1258
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: and I appreciate all the good advice you've given me

1259
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 1: over the years and the time you've spent with me,

1260
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: and doubtless many others who are listening to this as well. Well,

1261
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 1: you've given me a lot of advice to I always

1262
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: love our conversations. Appreciate that that's calling. I'm Clay Travis.

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Speaker 1: This has been wins and losses. Be sure to catch

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Speaker 1: live editions about Kick the Coverage with Clay Travis weekdays

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Speaker 1: at six am Eastern three am Pacific