WEBVTT - Fault w/ Lou Diamond Phillips 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.000 Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable. 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:06.800 We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:07.640 vicious felonies. 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:11.240 These episodes are based on. These are our stories. Done done. 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.760 Hi, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.200 This is my co host Kara, and. 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:36.680 This is my co host Liza. So great to see 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.080 you again, my love. Yeah, oh that was really sweet. Well, 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:40.839 I have to explain. 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.360 You know, we talk about an episode of SVU, we 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:45.199 talk about the true crime it's based on, and we 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.720 have a celebrity guest from the episode. 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:50.680 Yeah, but call me my love again. That was cute. 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.000 What's up with you, my love? What's how's your week going? 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:59.880 I mean, we had a pretty fun day yesterday eating Chipotle, 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:04.120 and it has ruined my day the next day, I 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:05.320 am having some problems. 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.080 Yeah, we ate Chipotle yesterday. You guys came over. 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:10.280 I woke I had an interesting wake up because my 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:12.240 toddler woke up a little bit sick. She's got like 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:13.760 a little bit of a runny nose, and she woke 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:17.399 up and she said to my husband, my nose feels crazy. 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:19.840 So I think that's kind of like the new way 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:21.200 I'm going to talk about being sick. 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:22.160 Oh, of course. 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:26.440 It's just I love hearing her figure things out, Like 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.640 instead of saying big, you know, she says heavy, Like yeah, 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.920 it's cool to see the way the brain processes and 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:34.160 learns how to communicate. 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:37.120 It's been a joy. And she know she's cute. 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.760 But also I'm currently wearing you can't see, but I'm 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:42.560 currently wearing my that's messed up hot pink tank top, 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:46.000 which is available on our merch store, please go buy. 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:48.520 And I put that on this morning and I was 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:49.800 in the bathroom with her and. 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:51.440 She goes, that's Lisa's shirt. 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:55.320 It's like, well yeah, I was like, yeah, we both 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:58.920 have it. She's like, why did you steal Lisa's shirt. 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.640 She's she's got a she's a little bit of a 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:04.640 baby baby Benson. She's got a very ingrained sense of 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.360 right and wrong. Like today Jared was talking on my 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:09.200 phone and I had his phone in my hand, and 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:09.600 she was. 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:13.120 Like, give Dada back his phone. That's not your phone, 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:16.760 that's his. Like she's so perceptive. 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:22.360 Yeah, she's definitely your child. There's no way she's not. 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:24.880 I was gonna say, I have caught up on the 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.200 current season of lonod svo. 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.280 Oh my gosh, the last few episodes. 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.600 The actress that was in Homeland, who played Mandy Patankin's. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:35.320 Wife, Yes, she's in. 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.440 She's so good because I remember you saying you watched 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.799 that episode and you were crying, and I definitely cried. Yeah, 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:45.240 I just like it just was really like I think 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.840 they did such a good job just like encompassing how 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.000 desperate times have been for people during COVID, Like I 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:53.640 think a lot of us have been lucky, we've squeaked through, 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:55.960 but like a lot of people haven't been. And it's like, 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:58.520 you know, they just show this woman whose business has 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:00.880 been touched, whose family has been touched, whose marriage has 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:03.840 been touched, Like it's just really oh, if you're not 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.840 caught up, just grab a box of tissues and settle 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:08.480 in for that episode. And the one before it was 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.480 like was like just really like graphic and also horrific. 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:14.240 You know, no, it's an intense season. 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:16.520 I also want to say, like when will they stop 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:18.000 holding Benson hostage? 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.919 Like when will it aunt how many more times? 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:22.960 This one was like a little bit of a more 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.880 low stakes hostage situation. Did you really ever think that 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:27.240 this woman was going to shoot Olivia. 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.760 I mean, right, no, but I got maybe with since 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.840 she's not a professional gun user, she could have we 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.160 you know, do some damage. I also, I have noticed 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.480 all the Black Lives Matter flags in the in the 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:46.320 background of everything. I appreciate that. And I also love that. 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.320 I mean, I love iced tea. I love that he's 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:49.720 in love. I can't get enough. 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:54.600 Yeah, his love is fun and careesy as a girlfriend. Yeah, 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:56.400 no one told me. 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.520 No one tweeted it, no one instant story, no dms like, 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.800 no one. It never came up. I just am kind 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:04.200 of disappointed in the listeners. 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.280 Well, he's dating this new woman, and I don't know 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.400 that it's going to make it past that last episode 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:12.800 that we just the first and last episode we saw 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:13.080 her in. 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.240 Yeah, I know, but because I also liked with Rollin's 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.520 dad when the dad was like, you don't accept Careese's 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:21.839 love because you don't think that you're good enough for him, 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:25.680 And that made me empathize with Rollins in a way. 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:27.400 I never have you we all think she's just a 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:29.600 dumb bitch, but really she is. 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:31.320 You know, I wouldn't say we all. 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.920 She does have several dedicated fan pages, but you specifically 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.800 hate her, you know, we get dms. People agree, But 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:42.159 I think that we are watching the evolution of your 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:46.680 You're starting to like her. I see, yeah, I've been 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.919 watching that from the beginning where you're like just shut up, rons, 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:51.760 and now you're like, love that messy bun. 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:56.520 Like I'm seeing the progression. I do love messy buns, Lisa. 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.520 I was going to tell you about Careesy, but I 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:00.400 got too nervous to tell you because i'd it, wasn't 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:01.960 sure how you would feel and if it would like 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:02.640 upset you. 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.080 That's a true fact. No, I want Coriesy to have love. 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.839 I want him to feel the love that he wants 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:10.960 to give, you know, let him be a stepdad already, 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.599 like he wants it so fucking bad. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:19.000 So true. Oh I wanted to tell you, Lisa. So okay. 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.600 So we had a couple we talk about in cells 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:23.279 on this podcast a lot and a lot of people. 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:24.960 A couple people have written us being like, what are 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:26.839 you saying when you say in cell? And I guess 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.799 it's not like a fully universal term yet, but sadly 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.880 it's it's involuntary celibate. So it's I n cel it's 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:39.560 like a portmanteau of abbreviations of involuntarily celibate, which is 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.000 like basically like horrible men who don't understand why women 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.120 don't give them sex and attention and they think they 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:48.560 always think it's because like they're not attractive enough or 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:50.200 they don't have enough money, and it's like, no, if 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:51.960 you actually like read what you write in Reddit. 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:53.800 Forums, it's just who you are. It's your personality. 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:56.360 And a lot of in cells have like done murders 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.120 and like mass shootings and stuff like that, but based 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.720 on like they're the philosophy, Like it's a. 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:03.240 Very what's crazy is? 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.160 I know for a fact there are women that are 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:08.240 involuntarily celibate all over town. 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.000 Why are they punching people? You know? 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.440 Like I just don't. 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:17.240 Yeah, I've been involuntarily celibate for over a year of 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.160 my life before and I never killed anybody. And I 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.680 and I went on Naria chat room to talk about it. 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.240 But I was reading this article that one of our 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:32.880 friends in New York sent me that is about this 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:37.239 plastic surgeon in Indiana who does surgery on in cells 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:40.599 to like make them like sort of classically hot, to 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:45.600 make them like angular and jaw like cut jaws, big lips. 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:45.960 You know what I mean. 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:48.560 Like and it's just like a really wild because like 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:52.920 people like one guy in the article like flew from Jesus. 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.240 I forget where he is, maybe South Africa or something 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.280 to Indian Indianapolis to. 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:58.120 Get his face. 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:00.840 Just readone and they're doing multiple surgeries and this guy 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.960 in Indiana. This is in The Cut, which is part 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.279 of New York Magazine. This article, if you want to 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:08.520 look it up, it's called how Many Bones Would You 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:09.400 Break to Get laid? 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:14.040 Is the is the headline? Great title? Yeah? And I 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:15.360 don't know. I just thought it was interesting. 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:17.320 I wanted to bring it up to you because it's 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.120 just crazy, how like these guys And honestly, they show 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:20.840 pictures of some. 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.000 Of these guys, they're not that bad looking. 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.280 Nobody has like deformities, Like they're not that bad looking. 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.840 It's like, if you could learn to like respect and 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:30.880 listen and talk to women in a normal way, you 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:31.679 would get laid. 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:35.239 Like, yeah, I actually just saw a post. I wonder 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:37.120 I would have probably just disappeared. But it was like, 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.240 if you can't be friends with a woman that's not 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:44.040 fucking you, you're gonna actually be a bad romantic partner anyways, 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.120 because I think you have to be friends with your partner. 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.160 You can't just and if you're together with someone for 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.360 a long time, there's gonna be times you can't fuck, 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:54.960 Like if someone has their kidney removed or something. I 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:59.640 don't know, like we're feeling depressed. No, it's never about looks. 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.680 It's all it's like people that are like, oh, if 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.440 I do this or that or that, that's the reason 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.840 I'm not meeting someone. And it's like it's always internal. Yeah, 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.280 it's internal. It's very racist. They think like that. 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:13.640 They think that other races are like taking away all 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.160 the women, like they're they're nuts. 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.400 I mean, I don't have any sympathy for. 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.400 Them, but like, I just thought the article was interesting 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.200 that there's this one guy in Indianapolis who's kind of 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.080 like he basically is like, whatever you want to do, 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.160 will do, Like he a lot of people, a lot 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.720 of surgeons will not operate on people who have body dysmorphia. 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.080 And this guy's like, no, if this is what you want, 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:34.679 you can have it. 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.120 And he just like, but these people are going to 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.600 be very surprised when this does not help them get laid. 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.120 I know it's just not gonna happen, But I like 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:45.800 that this guy is swindling in cells. 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.400 Like I'm not mad about it. Yeah, they're paying a 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.679 lot too, Go buy a second house, don't. 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.600 He has like he has like patented silicone to like 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:58.880 make your cheekbones higher and like have that like he 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.240 does jawwidening to make them they all look like they 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:04.680 all look like kind of like silly European models for 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.360 Dulcia and Cabana, you know what I mean. Like it's like, Okay, 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:08.640 this is a little bit too much. 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:10.839 The cut actually is doing great work. I think was 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:12.000 it the cut? And so I don't know. 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:16.400 But ze Ways new show premiered and her press is amazing. 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.400 She wore these one pair of Versace mules that I 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.439 was like, are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:24.600 yeah those are so cool. They're sold out. 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.400 She wants them so that if you are looking for 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:30.280 a new show, you guys have to watch z Way 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:35.920 on showtime Ziwe z Way. She had an iconic Instagram 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:37.680 live show that Lisa was a guest on. 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.880 Yeah, I regret some things I said. I mean, the 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.920 whole point, her whole thing is like, you know, she's 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:46.200 a black woman who's always or a lot of the 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.680 times in white spaces, and it's uncomfortable to talk about race. 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.000 So she kind of flips it and asks really like 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.560 chill benine questions, but they are uncomfortable, and it's just like, 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.000 I want to make white people uncomfortable. And I went 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.400 on it, and I think I tried too hard not 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:02.600 to be like I don't know, it's embarrassing to think 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:02.880 about it. 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.200 I thought you were great. I thought you were great, 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.080 and you do like yes, well, she was like, what 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:08.880 do you think about black love? I'm like, Whinny and 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.040 Bobby kind of messy. She's like that's what you think, 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:11.559 and I'm. 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:12.960 Like, oh my god, oh my god. 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:15.439 And then the comments are going and they're like this 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.720 dumb bitch read a book like it's it's really fun. 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.560 But she interviewed Frand Leebowitz, who famously doesn't really do 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:22.559 much press. 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.600 So it's like really really yeah, and she got glorious 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.920 Steinem and that's on her pilot episode, So check it 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.640 out if you're looking for a new show. I do 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:31.640 have we should start, But you know, this is kind 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:34.520 of my mo I one time was booked to do 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.959 a MISS event and I thought it was for MS, 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:41.760 so I just rolled in looking when it. 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:42.920 Was Miss Magazine. 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.240 It sure was, and so I was rushing. I booked 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.600 a bunch of shows. I show up Kathen and Jimmy's there, 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:52.120 Glorious Steinem's there. It's a full red carpet, and I'm 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.760 like performing in front of these women and meeting Glorious 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.800 Steinem looking like trash, and I was like, I would 0:10:57.800 --> 0:10:59.640 have brought a friend. I would have put on a limb. 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.319 Why were you not dressing up for MS? Because I 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:04.760 had other spots. It was just like, oh, I have 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:06.800 a night of spot. I'll have to raise money for 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:08.640 MS and go on my way. And then I had 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.199 to cancel all these shows, being like, okay, I am 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:13.400 with Glorious seignhum right now, I'm. 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:17.120 Not coming to her show. I have to stay. But 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.160 it was MS magazine. Amazing. 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:22.920 Well, let's jump in because we've got a really really 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.720 hot episode today, a classic episode, an amazing guest, a 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.800 horrifying crime, the usual, so you know, get ready to 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:30.520 be horrified. 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:35.320 Okay, okay. 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:39.360 Today is an episode many have asked for. It is 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.280 an episode Neil Bear called one of his most haunting. 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:48.079 Today we are doing Fault season seven, episode nineteen. Lisa, 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.720 do you have thoughts of opening thoughts about this episode? 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:52.679 Yeah? I have some thoughts, but I don't know if 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:53.960 we're keeping it a secret. 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:59.000 But okay, some good guest stars in this episode, some crimes, 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:01.520 some relateationship testing moments. 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.839 It isn't a iconic Bensler episode, I think because there 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.120 is some shit that goes down between them. 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.240 Yeah, and you know Stabler does not handle his emotions. 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.400 He gets mad at the wrong person. I mean, it's 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.559 classic in many ways. There's an airport moment or is 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.160 it a bus? You know, it's just it's great. Okay. 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:22.200 So we open on a couple breaking up in a 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.320 laundry room of a New York City apartment building. 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:30.360 You know, Patty, and the guy's name is who Cares. 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.360 So there, you know, she's in her laundry room and 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.280 he comes in. He's like, I love you, but sometimes 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.840 loves just not enough. She's like thanks, doctor Phil, and 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.320 then whatever he leaves, and then she's just crying at 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:44.920 the dryer, haven't we all? So then she hears a 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:48.640 noise and she thinks it's her ex Tommy and this 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.320 is like from the New York City Nightmare Treasure Trove, right, 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.439 Like you're in your building's laundry room and like someone 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.080 attacks you. It's like very no one's down there, it's 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.280 dark whatever. So she's getting like she's walking to the 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.720 noise and then they do this like crazy camera zoom 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:04.640 in on her like she's being attacked. But guess what, 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.000 it's a parrot. It's a parrot named Bretta. I feel 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:10.600 like I've seen a lot of exotic birds on this view. 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:12.640 We need to like make a note to ask Neil 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.280 Bher like if someone on staff like had a bird thing, don't. 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.520 I mean, I feel like there's a lot of victims 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.000 with a bird or like. 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:21.240 She was always nice to my bird, so I knew 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:22.160 she was a good person. 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.120 We already we did an episode like that. You know, 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:25.480 like there's a lot of birds. 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.400 Yeah, it's a lot of birds, and I don't know 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:28.920 one person in New York with a bird. 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:29.640 No. 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:32.440 Also, Bretta is a fucked up name. Isn't that a 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.040 gun name? Yeah? I think it's like it sounds very 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:36.000 mafia gun to me. 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:42.240 So Patty goes to bring barretta but I'm sorry, So baratta. 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:43.079 Yeah, delicious. 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.720 Patty goes to bring Bretta back to Missus Clifford. She 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:49.959 obviously knows this bird. This bird gets out all the time. 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.400 It seems like she's like, God, this place is a mess, 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:54.440 and it is a mess, but it's also like furniture 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.720 is overturned. I don't know why she's not more shocked 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.400 or like suspicious that something's gone on. People can be messy, 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.360 but they don't usually have their coffee table like over 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.800 on its side. She puts the bird back, and then 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.200 she sees as she's leaving, she sees like a foot 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.559 coming out of the kitchen. She walks in and finds 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.520 mister and Missus Clifford murdered in their kitchen, blood everywhere. 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.200 It's pretty gross. So now we cut to the police. 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:18.640 Are there? 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.400 Doctor Melinda Warner is giving us like the full expository rundown, 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.320 no sign of forced entry. Simon Clifford is the man 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:27.600 age forty seven. 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:29.120 I need everybody to go back to this. 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.120 Episode, pause on this man's face and tell me that 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:32.520 is a forty seven year old man. 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.440 He looks sixty, so I don't know. 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:37.880 He has a full head of gray hair and a mustache. 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.400 He does not look forty seven. I'm just saying, did 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:41.880 you have any did did that ring for you? 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:43.600 Lisa? No, it didn't. 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.880 I'm really bad with ages. I feel like that's just 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.640 not something I comprehend well. Like people will be like 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.720 I'll talk about someone and the person I'm. 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:54.840 With will always ask how old is are they? 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:58.360 And I never have an idea. Okay, well, I thought 0:14:58.360 --> 0:14:59.840 this man looked much older than forty. 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:00.320 Sive of him. 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.120 But my favorite age game is like when you go 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:05.800 back and watch a rom common, someone is twenty seven 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.080 and about to slit their wrists for not being married. 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:10.000 Like those are the moments I love. 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:13.320 I love what I'm like, Oh, I'm twenty five, Like 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:15.880 my best friends are runaway b one of the weddings 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.520 with Julia Roberts, she's like twenty seven and miserable, and 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:19.000 it's like. 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.240 If you go back and watch the Bird Cage, Calista Flockhart. 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.640 Is nineteen marrying the guy and they're just like, they're 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:30.440 a little young, but it's like nineteen. Anyway, times have changed, but. 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.520 Also as a culture, we do all look better than 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:34.600 back in the day. 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.680 I think, yes, at the age of forty seven, but 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.720 I still think this man looks like a not sixty 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.200 years old if he's a day, but he has been 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.920 dead for about five hours. His throat's been cut from behind, 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:49.120 and it was a hunting knife used for butchering. 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:52.160 They and then Lilah Clifford is the wife. She was 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:52.720 on the run. 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.040 It's not as clean of a attack because. 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:56.880 She was trying to escape. 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.440 And then we hear about the third victim, Amy Clifford, 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:00.760 who is their sixteen year old daughter. 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:02.320 She has not been cut at all. 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.360 There is signs of sexual assault, but no seaman or spermicide. 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:10.560 So doctor Warner is hypothesizing that either he couldn't get 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.680 a boner or he got scared off and then he 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.280 choked her to death. So then they're like, let me 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.880 show you the kids room, and you're like bracing yourselves 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:19.920 that there's going to be like two dead kids. But 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.960 we go into this room and there's no bodies, no blood, 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.520 and the two children that you normally occupy the room, 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.040 Ryan age nine and Rebecca age seven, are missing. 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:31.760 Done, done credits. 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.720 I'd rather some missing kids than some slashed up dead 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:35.400 kids in a bed. 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.240 I don't think we would see that. Yeah, we've seen it. 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:40.960 We've seen it. We've seen it. 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.320 But at the beginning of the episode, that's a little 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:44.800 our listeners are nuts. 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:45.880 They're like, do charisma. 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:50.280 We don't want to, we don't need, we don't need 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:51.880 a house of dead children. 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.640 I mean, we'll do okay. 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.040 So tap of act one, Olivia is showing pictures of 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.640 the kids to Kragan, and Cragan's out on the streets 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:01.280 and we Craigan in the street, right. 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:02.440 I love a Craigan in the street. 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:04.640 He's got his little neozy's hat on and he is 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.040 ready to give orders. 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.680 And the sheets you didn't even do with the fun. 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:11.080 You're like, because I do. 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.760 The Craigan is a stabler in the sheets. You were saying, 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:15.560 I want a Cragan in the streets and a Stabler 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:15.880 in the sheet. 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.119 Yeah, you did nothing with that. I'm like, shh. I 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.680 was sitting here waiting like she's gonna do a little joke. 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:26.760 No, I'm sorry, sorry, I didn't do that joke. I 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.080 respect Ludacris too much. But you I want to say, 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.400 you love that era of music too, It's I do. 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.920 So that's a good Maybe that's a good idea for merch. 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:43.080 Craigan in the streets Benceler Bence, no Stabler in the sheets, 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:44.359 but half our audience probably. 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.280 Wants Benson in the sheets anyway, cut all of this, 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:49.440 but that's not the game. I guess she does slap 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:50.119 people around. 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.199 Okay, you don't know what she's like in bed, except 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:54.919 I guess we've seen her like snuggle up in a 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:56.240 man's shirt a couple of times. 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.920 All right, So the manhunt. 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.439 Is underway for this psychopath who has murdered his family 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:03.680 and kidnap these two children. 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:06.320 So he Stabler finds out all this information. 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:08.159 He goes The family's lived here for seven years, the 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.359 mom and dad have both been popped for drug possession. 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.240 Their oldest son is in sing sing for armed robbery. 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:16.800 So then it's like, oh, oh, Hallerin wants your attention. 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:22.480 He's our hot rip tech who finds a bunch of 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.760 footprints that are all kind of in a tight cluster, 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.640 like of standing and walking in a circle that has 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:32.240 a perfect view of Ryan and Rebecca's bedroom. This seems 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:34.560 like insane police work to me to just like walk 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.000 around and see if you find a bunch of matching footprints, 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.760 but I get they did that. And then this little 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:43.200 old landlord shows up. He of course, like everything in SVU, 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:47.960 is the landlord that knows this entire family story. He's like, oh, 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:50.200 Simon Clifford, the man who's been murdered is just the 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.479 kid's stepdad, and he married Lilah last fall, but they 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:57.639 shacked up right after Glenn moved out. Now, Glenn, just 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.840 a side note, is the name of the of this character. 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.400 He's also the name of Bob Saggett's character. And one 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.720 of our listeners who is named Glenn said that they 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.560 started a list of an informal list of Glenn's in 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:14.440 TV shows and movies recently and that it is mostly villains, 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:17.920 ben bad people. Yeah, Glenn is not. 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.560 A good name. Sorry to that man. I'm sorry to 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:22.040 this man. 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.320 So anyway, they got together after Glenn moved out. There 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:28.359 was a big custody fight. They would get violin with 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.520 each other all the time, and he was like, he 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:33.240 came by a couple of nights ago, he threatened to 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:37.359 kill her, and again, yeah, this landlord knows every personal 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.720 family detail. So now we've got Glenn. He's an interrogation 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:43.159 and he's like, it was all talk. I was just 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.080 mad because she was going to move my kids to Florida. 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.439 She's letting a drug addict raise my kids, and he's like, 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.399 search my house, do whatever you want. Like, he's definitely 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:53.200 not you get the feeling, he's definitely not the guy, 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.400 and he's obviously very upset that his oldest daughter has 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.880 been murdered and his two children are missing. So now 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.120 we're at Sing Sing. They take you on a lot 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:07.000 of rides in this episode before we get to the 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:11.239 actual meat of who has these kids. So now we're 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.520 at Sing Sing talking to the eldest son, Calvin. They're 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:16.560 asking him, how have you made any friends in prison? 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.080 Are you in the Aryan Nation? And he says no, 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.800 But then ic T's like, don't even try this shit 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:23.240 with me. I see that you have eight eight on 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.800 your wrist, which Munch clarifies the eighth letter. 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:27.800 Of the alphabet is H. 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:30.760 So eight eight stands for Kyle Hitler, and the guy goes, well, 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:32.359 I like my ass the way it is, So I 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:33.640 got a fall in with somebody. 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.119 That's an interesting quote. I mean, I think that's probably 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:38.480 how a lot of people in prison feel. 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:40.680 I mean I think, yeah, you have to just do it. 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:43.400 I just wonder if we went, like what else white 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:44.240 Jews would. 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.600 Do oh late in like a lady jail. I don't know, 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.159 like would the Nazis let us in or would we 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.399 have no group to go to? Yeah, that's true. We 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:53.640 wouldn't be able to go with the Aryan women. Were 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:58.560 there Jewish women? Well, Cindy Cindy in Orange's New Black Converts, 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:02.200 but just something she ality has her group of friends. 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:03.840 Yes, send anything, but if you guys have any ideas 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.040 for what gangsley's then I can join. When we're in prison. 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:08.880 We would really appreciate it. Send those straight to the DMS. 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.800 So this guy says, there's no way I pissed anyone 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:16.320 off enough to kill my entire family. And he's basically like, 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:20.479 I'm not. My stepdad is scum. He hangs out with scums, 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.000 so he's probably like, it's my stepdad or somebody connected 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:25.680 to him. And he said he talked to Rebecca a 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.639 week ago and that she was home midday from school, 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:30.480 which is weird. She picked up the phone and that 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:32.760 the school had sent her home. No one would say why, 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:36.280 and the whole situation seems sketchy. So now we're at 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:40.720 Rebecca's school and Rebecca's teacher is saying, oh, she didn't 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:41.400 do anything wrong. 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:42.639 She was upset because. 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:44.679 There was a man hanging outside the school yard, and 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:46.359 by the time another kid came and told me about it, 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:48.480 I went out there. Rebecca was right up at the 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.840 fence and this guy was jerking off and Rebecca was 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:54.880 just standing there traumatized. So she pulled her away, and 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.040 then she and a bunch of other girls who saw 0:21:57.119 --> 0:21:58.920 this were upset and they all got sent home early. 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:01.320 And the teacher goes, but I drew this just in case, 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:03.960 because the cops told her, don't worry. This guy probably 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:05.919 won't come back and this has nothing to do with anything, 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.240 which is insane. And then the teacher goes, don't worry, 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:11.840 I drew this and just pulls out a stunning portrait 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:14.520 of this pedophile and she's like, I'm the art teacher, 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:18.200 Like it's a full framer, right, it's beautiful. Yeah, No, 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:22.520 I like all the details. 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:22.840 Of this character that we're about to meet. 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:26.359 So they're at the precinct talking about how they're going 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:28.679 to get the drawing out to the media, and they're like, oh, 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:31.800 Lilah Clifford's bank account just got emptied out, and apparently 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.760 it was only like sixty dollars. So they try to 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:36.719 go get the ATM footage, but before they do that, 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:40.040 we do see Ryan and Rebecca's faces on NY one, 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:42.719 which is I know we're not allowed to stay iconic anymore, 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:46.720 but I and NYC icon Sorry, I love n Y one. 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:50.520 One time I thought I was going to be hosting 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:54.240 the Halloween parade for New York one, but I wasn't. 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:57.720 But I told everyone I was what like I was 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:00.480 just going to be interviewed for my costume during the parade, 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:02.879 but I thought I was going to be the correspondent. 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:05.879 And so I was like, and so I brought a friend. 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:08.600 Everyone at the cellar like put the TVs on, and 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:10.600 they're like, you weren't on the TV. 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:13.680 And I was like, where was the miscommunication, Lisa? 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:17.440 Maybe my dreams were bigger than my reading comprehension. 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:19.760 And I was just like, like the word host was 0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:20.960 just not in it anywhere. 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:21.920 No. 0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:24.199 I was waiting and waiting, and then I like they 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:25.960 kept interviewing other people in front of me, and I 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:27.800 was like, I thought I was going to be interviewing 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:30.000 people Like I just assumed I was going to be 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:32.919 the host and it wasn't it was their newscasters. 0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:35.800 So, oh my god, Lisa trigger the grand Marshal of 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:36.720 the Halloween career. 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:38.840 I wish one day and one day. 0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:42.439 So they do check this ATM footage and they see 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:45.639 that this guy made Ryan use the ATM. There's like 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:47.720 you can see just like like the little corner of 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:48.600 a kid's head. 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:51.520 Going up to use the ATM. And uh. 0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:54.520 Meanwhile, Olivia gets a call. They've got an idea on 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:58.800 the sketch, so they had to outdoor Adventures and this 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:02.800 guy bits perfectly into the cannon of SVU side characters. 0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:05.639 He remembers an exact order that somebody made at his 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:10.480 outdoor store one month ago. He remembers everything he bought. 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:13.560 I understand maybe remembering that he got the telephoto lens, 0:24:13.600 --> 0:24:15.520 because it is that he got this telephoto lens camera 0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:17.600 that's like two grand top of the line. He's only 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:19.560 sold three of them, so I guess he could remember that. 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:21.600 But he also remembers, oh, he bought a couple of 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:25.280 kids sleeping bags, rope, a hunting knife, and I'm like, 0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:29.720 the memory on this guy is very impressive. And then 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:33.760 he obviously has looked through and found that the guy 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:35.920 used a credit card and so now boom, we've got 0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:39.440 the identity. Victor Paul Gaetano is the name of this man. 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:43.160 So they find out that Victor Paul Gaetano was arrested 0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:45.280 six weeks ago from molesting a nine year old. He 0:24:45.359 --> 0:24:48.359 skipped bail, and he's a registered sex offender for a 0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:51.280 rape of a child with serious bodily harm that stems 0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:53.520 from a previous crime in nineteen eighty seven when he 0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:56.640 held a twelve year old boy hostage, tortured, raped, burn 0:24:56.760 --> 0:25:01.280 him horrible. And as we're hearing all this, we are seeing, 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:04.320 we're hearing this like simultaneously, as the cops bust into 0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:08.480 Gaetano's apartment, they're checking everything. Nobody is there, but they 0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:10.359 did find the little girl's baret, so they know that 0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:12.480 they like kind of just miss them that they were there. 0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:15.280 So now we've got Huang on the scene doing a 0:25:15.280 --> 0:25:18.040 little bit more exposition, kind of reading from a report 0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:22.840 by doctor PAULA. Greenfield, who treated Gaetano back in Pennsylvania. 0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:27.480 He basically this guy is a full psychopath. He self 0:25:27.520 --> 0:25:30.439 reported that as a teen he sexually assaulted over a 0:25:30.520 --> 0:25:34.600 dozen girls and boys, all strangers to him sexuality and 0:25:34.640 --> 0:25:37.919 inflicting pain are like fully intertwined for him from an 0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:41.480 early age. Huang doesn't believe that Gaetano was a pedophile 0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:43.560 in the classic sense. They just think he's a sadist 0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:46.480 and he probably chooses children because they're easier to control. 0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:49.440 It turns out he was kicked out of his program 0:25:50.000 --> 0:25:52.800 that he was in Pennsylvania with doctor Greenfield after three 0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:55.800 years because he refused to participate and express desire to 0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:59.520 continue his behavior. And you know, Stabler rightfully is like 0:25:59.560 --> 0:26:01.920 wide and they just commit him. And Wang keeps saying, oh, 0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:05.080 he didn't fit the criteria, and Finn's like, well, it 0:26:05.160 --> 0:26:08.479 sounded like he said I'm going to reoffend, So how 0:26:08.520 --> 0:26:08.840 does that. 0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:09.720 Not fit the criteria? 0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:13.600 And Wang explains, you know, psychotherapy encourages you to express 0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:17.320 your desires and thoughts without fears of being punished, So technically, 0:26:17.320 --> 0:26:18.879 I don't think they can take what he says in 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:23.320 therapy sessions and like use it against him. So even 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:25.440 though there's all this evidence that he would probably reoffend, 0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:27.440 I guess it was like not enough criteria for a 0:26:27.480 --> 0:26:31.880 civil commitment. So now we go to Pennsylvania and talk 0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:36.040 to doctor Paula. Greenfield, who we've already seen in our 0:26:36.080 --> 0:26:39.840 time doing this podcast. She's played by Rebecca Weisaki, and 0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:41.800 she has she has big. 0:26:41.640 --> 0:26:43.359 Sandra Bernhard vibes to me. 0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:47.160 And if you recognize her, it's because she played Marcy, 0:26:47.359 --> 0:26:51.959 the woman in Serendipity who helped that pregnant woman find 0:26:52.000 --> 0:26:55.879 the baby parents who worked at the flavor factory. Yes, remember, 0:26:55.960 --> 0:26:57.919 she was like, we got along really great, Like she 0:26:57.960 --> 0:26:59.679 worked at like a suicide hotline and you're not supposed 0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:01.560 to become friends with people, but she like, she got 0:27:01.600 --> 0:27:03.640 along great with that woman and then helped her give 0:27:03.640 --> 0:27:07.159 her baby away. So she said that guy town has 0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:09.879 probably been planning this for months, maybe even years, Like 0:27:09.920 --> 0:27:12.160 the planning of it is what kind of gets him going. 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:15.400 She's like, I have no idea what he was even 0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:17.800 like before he was in prison. He's he's like a 0:27:17.840 --> 0:27:22.040 full scale liar. Never isn't lying, Like one second he 0:27:22.080 --> 0:27:24.320 says he was molested and he's like, no, my mother 0:27:24.440 --> 0:27:27.440 was an angel, Like I never knew my father. 0:27:27.600 --> 0:27:28.040 Just kidding. 0:27:28.040 --> 0:27:29.639 I moved around all the time because my dad was 0:27:29.680 --> 0:27:32.240 in the military. Like he just was lying all the time. 0:27:32.680 --> 0:27:34.760 And she said, you know, eventually you just realize he's 0:27:34.800 --> 0:27:38.240 playing you. He's never telling the truth ever. And Huong's like, 0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:41.560 these are the worst kinds of offenders because they really 0:27:41.560 --> 0:27:44.720 make you believe you can help them, and Greenfield's like, 0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:47.840 you can't help a sociopath. It's this whole debate about 0:27:47.840 --> 0:27:50.159 sex offenders being cured, like I can't cure you of 0:27:50.240 --> 0:27:52.080 needing oxygen to breathe. 0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:53.600 Which is interesting because there is. 0:27:54.960 --> 0:27:58.119 Research about, you know, whether you can cure sex offender, 0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:01.080 whether their urges can be like with hell. But someone 0:28:01.200 --> 0:28:04.800 like this, I think it's different because it's not just 0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:05.800 a sexual desire. 0:28:05.840 --> 0:28:06.639 It's like a violet. 0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:09.400 It's like a desire for violence that I don't think 0:28:09.400 --> 0:28:11.639 you can get from, like you know, being in a 0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:17.800 consensual relationship or looking at pornography or whatever. So she says, basically, 0:28:17.840 --> 0:28:20.159 he sees weakness in you and he exploits it. And 0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:23.240 she said for her, her weakness was her revulsion of him. 0:28:23.920 --> 0:28:27.080 So he was like super detailed and would sit and 0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:32.080 like weave these tales of torturing children like it was 0:28:32.359 --> 0:28:35.119 telling a bedtime story. And she says she thinks her 0:28:35.119 --> 0:28:37.439 greatest accomplishment with him was teaching him how to imitate 0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:40.400 normal human behavior, and that essentially made him more dangerous, 0:28:40.920 --> 0:28:44.480 and she says, I've got all his journals and taped sessions. 0:28:44.480 --> 0:28:45.680 I don't know if any of this is going to 0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:46.040 help you. 0:28:46.960 --> 0:28:50.560 So then Huang and Kragan are back at the precinct 0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:53.880 watching one of these video sessions of Gaetano, and that's 0:28:53.920 --> 0:28:58.800 when we learn that he is played by Oscar nominated 0:28:59.400 --> 0:29:04.160 legend and Lou Diamond Phillips. So I'm obsessed with him 0:29:04.160 --> 0:29:06.240 from La Bamba and here he is as a serial 0:29:06.360 --> 0:29:11.000 killer and he's confessing to like, you know, cutting a 0:29:11.080 --> 0:29:13.680 kid and all this blood that comes out, and it's 0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:15.880 just really gross because he is really talking about it, 0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:17.200 almost like it's romantic. 0:29:17.240 --> 0:29:18.320 It's really disgusting. 0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:20.959 And this is intercut with scenes of Huang interviewing one 0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:24.719 of Gaetano's victims. And I've always remembered this interview, like 0:29:24.880 --> 0:29:26.880 from when I watched this episode years and years ago, 0:29:26.920 --> 0:29:29.400 i always have remembered this interview with this guy because 0:29:30.440 --> 0:29:33.320 it's just so sad, how like he just lives in 0:29:33.360 --> 0:29:39.360 a bubble of trauma, and like he says, like, I 0:29:39.400 --> 0:29:41.400 never knew people could do things like that to your 0:29:41.440 --> 0:29:43.920 body or be so evil, and he's basically like, I 0:29:43.920 --> 0:29:44.720 don't leave the house. 0:29:44.920 --> 0:29:45.800 I work online. 0:29:45.880 --> 0:29:47.520 I haven't gone outside in years, but you know, I've 0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:49.960 got TV and I can order anything I want off 0:29:50.000 --> 0:29:50.600 the internet. 0:29:50.680 --> 0:29:53.880 And it's not a bad life, not a bad life 0:29:53.920 --> 0:29:54.160 at all. 0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:57.680 And I just always remember that monologue as for lack 0:29:57.720 --> 0:29:58.880 of a better word, haunting. 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:03.080 Yeah, this comes up a lot, and I've been thinking 0:30:03.080 --> 0:30:03.800 about it a lot. 0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:06.800 How so much like quote. 0:30:06.640 --> 0:30:09.600 Unquote bad behavior, like these things stay with you and 0:30:09.880 --> 0:30:12.640 just how much trauma people are carrying around, and that 0:30:13.080 --> 0:30:15.800 we need to stop judging people for their wacko behaviors 0:30:15.840 --> 0:30:18.440 and realize like or try to think like, oh what 0:30:18.600 --> 0:30:19.480 made them like this? 0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:21.720 Right, instead of just being mad at people. 0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:25.760 Yeah, I'm just honestly, Hunting Ground has taken over for 0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:28.680 the worst interview for me, because like the rope mark 0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:29.320 on her neck. 0:30:29.880 --> 0:30:32.520 Do you remember, oh, the girl that's in the that's 0:30:32.520 --> 0:30:33.480 in the mental institution? 0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:37.040 Yeah, like yeah that one. When you were like this 0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:39.920 interview fucked me up. I was like that Hunting Ground 0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:42.680 one has not left my brain for sure. 0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:47.640 So basically now they're saying they're getting more clear picture 0:30:47.640 --> 0:30:49.440 of this guy, and they're like if the kids are 0:30:49.560 --> 0:30:51.840 around still and alive, they won't be for long, so 0:30:51.920 --> 0:30:55.000 like we got to move fast. So then they get 0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:57.680 a tip that there's been a sighting of Gaetano at 0:30:57.720 --> 0:31:01.040 the George Washington Bridge bus terminal, where I've never been. 0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:03.600 I think, Lisa, you said you've been there one time. 0:31:03.840 --> 0:31:05.400 I've been on the bridge. I don't know about the 0:31:05.440 --> 0:31:06.200 bus terminal. 0:31:06.280 --> 0:31:08.360 Oh, I thought you said, Oh no, sorry, it was Hannah. 0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:14.440 Hannah's been there. So we meet this fucking money transfer guy. 0:31:14.600 --> 0:31:18.040 I can't stand this guy. Whenever I watch this episode, 0:31:18.080 --> 0:31:19.440 I want to punch this guy in the face. 0:31:19.880 --> 0:31:21.040 Look, he's very smart. 0:31:21.080 --> 0:31:23.480 He works at a money transfer place where Gaetano came 0:31:23.880 --> 0:31:26.560 and he recognized him because he recognized the kids. The 0:31:26.640 --> 0:31:29.440 kids look like zombies and were just like standing there traumatized. 0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:30.840 So this guy is smart. 0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:34.040 He told him, oh, I don't have your wire transfer yet, 0:31:34.080 --> 0:31:34.680 but it's coming in. 0:31:34.760 --> 0:31:36.440 It'll be here by four, and he stalled him so 0:31:36.440 --> 0:31:38.200 he could call the cops. Very smart. 0:31:38.280 --> 0:31:40.920 That's where this man's intelligence ends. Then he has no 0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:43.640 chill at all. They're all hanging around the bus station 0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:45.760 waiting for Guyitana to show up, and this guy is 0:31:45.800 --> 0:31:49.360 sitting there like wide eyed, like doing a cartoon impression 0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:50.560 of somebody who's nervous. 0:31:50.760 --> 0:31:55.480 It's definitely top like comedic moments on SVU, I would say. 0:31:55.600 --> 0:31:58.120 I mean, he won't stop looking at this killer, Like 0:31:58.160 --> 0:32:00.000 it's like just look down at a piece of paper 0:32:00.040 --> 0:32:02.719 and draw a smiley face, like do something else besides 0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:04.800 look so fucking obviously terrified. 0:32:05.080 --> 0:32:08.360 And he keeps talking to Stabler, like he keeps talking 0:32:08.400 --> 0:32:10.040 and Stablers like shut the fuck up. 0:32:10.400 --> 0:32:12.520 Yeah, because like this guy's looking over and seeing a 0:32:12.520 --> 0:32:15.480 man staring directly at him, button using his mouth to 0:32:15.560 --> 0:32:17.160 talk to the person that's in front of him. Like 0:32:17.200 --> 0:32:21.040 it's completely it's just like, oh, he's driving me nuts. 0:32:21.640 --> 0:32:24.800 And it's also like you're behind glass and the cops 0:32:24.840 --> 0:32:27.480 are everywhere. Why are you worried that something's gonna happen 0:32:27.560 --> 0:32:30.360 to you? Like he's like, don't leave me here, I'm 0:32:30.360 --> 0:32:34.600 gonna get murdered. It's like, you're fine. So Gaetano shows up, 0:32:34.640 --> 0:32:38.080 He sees money order guy looking totally fucking flipped, so 0:32:38.120 --> 0:32:40.920 he tips him off. He starts running, and now this 0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:44.840 is where like things get completely nuts. There's like a 0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:48.960 million people in this bus station. Gaetano and Benson and 0:32:48.960 --> 0:32:51.720 Stable are just like knocking people over left and right, 0:32:51.800 --> 0:32:52.800 like throwing elbows. 0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:55.040 People are just falling, packages are flying. 0:32:55.520 --> 0:32:57.600 They're all like you know, splitting up and taking different 0:32:57.680 --> 0:32:59.360 taxs and trying to find this guy head him off 0:32:59.440 --> 0:33:02.280 up here, blah blah blah. Suddenly, like a whole massive 0:33:02.280 --> 0:33:05.760 people start running. Stabler's running against the flow of traffic, 0:33:06.360 --> 0:33:08.400 and we don't really know why they're running. Maybe Gaetano 0:33:08.520 --> 0:33:10.160 was like there and just pulled a knife or something. 0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:12.960 And then Elliott sees the little boy, Ryan just standing 0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:16.240 there dazed and looking at him, and he's like, Ryan, 0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:18.280 come here, I'm gonna get you. And then he looks 0:33:18.320 --> 0:33:22.040 over and sees Guetano holding the little girl. Then Benson 0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:25.200 comes out of nowhere and goes freeze. He slashes Benson 0:33:25.200 --> 0:33:28.200 with a knife in the neck, and he just heads 0:33:28.240 --> 0:33:29.480 up the escalator. 0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:29.840 With Ryan and Rebecca. 0:33:30.720 --> 0:33:34.240 So Stabler has to think which I guess an escalator 0:33:34.280 --> 0:33:37.520 seems like a sketchy They're so slow moving, I don't know. 0:33:38.000 --> 0:33:39.120 Stable has to think fast. 0:33:39.120 --> 0:33:40.800 He's like, do I chase the kids and the guy, 0:33:40.920 --> 0:33:42.760 or do I check on Olivia, Like he may have 0:33:42.840 --> 0:33:46.360 just like hit her full corotid artery which is not 0:33:46.440 --> 0:33:50.200 in her butt, and like she could be dying, right, 0:33:50.520 --> 0:33:51.920 So he decides to check on Olivia. 0:33:52.040 --> 0:33:54.480 She's like, I'm okay, I'm okay, go find Gaetano. 0:33:55.560 --> 0:33:57.880 You can tell he really thinks that he has like 0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:00.320 he when he comes up to her, like, he looks 0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:03.480 like no, like she's dying, So you can tell that 0:34:03.640 --> 0:34:06.320 he thinks it's really serious, but it is more of 0:34:06.360 --> 0:34:09.440 a nick. And then Stabler gets upstairs and there's a 0:34:09.480 --> 0:34:11.480 crowd of people gathered around, and Fin's like, don't come 0:34:11.480 --> 0:34:11.920 over here. 0:34:12.000 --> 0:34:12.760 He killed Ryan. 0:34:12.800 --> 0:34:17.040 He slid his throat, and Stabler is like super super shook, 0:34:17.680 --> 0:34:20.520 and Gaetano has disappeared with Rebecca into the crowd. I 0:34:20.600 --> 0:34:24.160 don't understand the skills of these killers. Should just move 0:34:24.200 --> 0:34:27.560 through crowds holding a child, and I don't know. I 0:34:27.560 --> 0:34:28.960 guess everybody was getting out of the way because he 0:34:28.960 --> 0:34:31.480 has a hunting knife in his hand. So now Elliott 0:34:31.520 --> 0:34:33.480 is freaking out about how close he was just saving 0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:37.960 the boy. And Elliot's like brooding and all mad, and 0:34:38.040 --> 0:34:40.399 Olivia is like trying to console him, and he's like, please, 0:34:40.440 --> 0:34:41.960 don't try to help me out right now. And it's 0:34:42.000 --> 0:34:45.000 like a little bit intense because they both were involved 0:34:45.040 --> 0:34:45.560 in this and. 0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:49.440 Clearly it's like, yeah, it is your fault. It's like, 0:34:49.520 --> 0:34:51.000 you know what I mean, it is your fault. You 0:34:51.040 --> 0:34:53.000 fucked up? Would you rather hear that right now? You 0:34:53.040 --> 0:34:53.920 got a kid killed? 0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:54.480 What do you want? 0:34:54.800 --> 0:34:56.360 They are It's like you don't want anyone to be 0:34:56.440 --> 0:34:58.640 nice to you, then I'll tell you the truth. It's 0:34:58.680 --> 0:34:59.200 your fault. 0:34:59.320 --> 0:35:02.160 She never said, Elliott, help me come over here, like 0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:06.000 he made Yeah, So we get into this, but basically 0:35:06.920 --> 0:35:08.440 they're having this little. 0:35:08.280 --> 0:35:10.719 Argument over like where he could have gone. 0:35:10.800 --> 0:35:13.960 And then uniformed officers like, there's a carjacking two blocks 0:35:14.040 --> 0:35:14.600 up the street. 0:35:15.040 --> 0:35:16.560 They like assume this has to do with. 0:35:16.600 --> 0:35:19.400 I guess it's probably fits that Gaetano's description. So they 0:35:19.480 --> 0:35:20.680 get to the street of. 0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:23.200 This car jacking. This woman is like, they took my car. 0:35:23.280 --> 0:35:24.719 He had a kid with him, I just got out 0:35:24.719 --> 0:35:26.320 of the car. Blah blah blah. She's hysterical. 0:35:26.800 --> 0:35:29.680 And then Elliott all of a sudden, out of nowhere, 0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:32.040 just picks up a pipe because there's just pipes lying 0:35:32.080 --> 0:35:34.319 around in New York, guys, it's the city that never 0:35:34.400 --> 0:35:39.200 doesn't have pipes lying around and just slams the window 0:35:39.280 --> 0:35:42.440 in of this car, and Olivia is like, what the 0:35:42.440 --> 0:35:44.200 fuck are you doing? And he's like, this car has 0:35:44.239 --> 0:35:46.560 a flat tire and look, check out, there's no tags. 0:35:46.760 --> 0:35:49.320 He obviously came to this block for a certain reason 0:35:49.800 --> 0:35:52.680 and this is his car, and Olivia is doubting him, 0:35:52.680 --> 0:35:53.799 and he turns out to be right. 0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:55.719 He Stabler finds a notebook with a. 0:35:55.680 --> 0:35:58.040 Guy's name on it and the name of the money 0:35:58.120 --> 0:35:59.920 transfer place and an amount of money in a phone. 0:36:00.719 --> 0:36:03.839 So they bring in this guy who's the one who's 0:36:03.840 --> 0:36:06.200 supposed to be sending Gaetano the money, and he's like, 0:36:06.520 --> 0:36:08.200 I only know him from the Air Force. We haven't 0:36:08.200 --> 0:36:10.560 seen each other in twenty years. Stabler's like trying to 0:36:10.600 --> 0:36:12.680 do this bad cop shit, like if I find out 0:36:12.719 --> 0:36:16.560 you're lying, I'll fucking wear your head for breakfast or whatever. 0:36:16.640 --> 0:36:18.360 I don't know what am I even talking about, Like 0:36:19.280 --> 0:36:22.560 I'll wear your head for breakfast. That's that's the kind 0:36:22.600 --> 0:36:26.040 of shit. So he's like doing his bad cop shit. 0:36:26.400 --> 0:36:28.960 He storms out, Olivia follows, and now we get a 0:36:29.000 --> 0:36:31.240 real moment with these two. She's like, you got something 0:36:31.239 --> 0:36:32.560 you want to say to me, because if you do, 0:36:32.680 --> 0:36:35.239 let's hear it. And he's like, why didn't you shoot 0:36:35.280 --> 0:36:38.280 Gaetano And she's like he was using a child. 0:36:38.120 --> 0:36:39.080 As a shield. 0:36:39.239 --> 0:36:42.480 There were civilians everywhere. I couldn't get a shot, Like 0:36:42.840 --> 0:36:44.480 I mean, you have to agree with her, like she's 0:36:44.480 --> 0:36:47.120 not going to endanger other people. And then he's like, 0:36:47.160 --> 0:36:49.040 I can't be looking over my shoulder all the time 0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:51.840 to see if you're okay, and I need to know 0:36:51.880 --> 0:36:53.279 you can do your job and not wait for me 0:36:53.320 --> 0:36:54.440 to come to the rescue. 0:36:54.560 --> 0:36:56.600 So kind of fucked up this stuff. And she's like, 0:36:56.680 --> 0:36:58.000 you know, that's not how it is. 0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:01.080 But then Craigan Daddy Egan comes up and breaks up 0:37:01.120 --> 0:37:04.840 the kids fighting and he threatens to suspend them. Suddenly 0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:07.239 it's like we get that call that they get, you know, 0:37:07.320 --> 0:37:08.080 once per episode. 0:37:08.120 --> 0:37:10.160 At least, Warner's got to show you guys something. 0:37:10.960 --> 0:37:14.279 So they go to see Melinda Warner the Emmy and 0:37:14.640 --> 0:37:18.000 she shows them that there is something phosphorescent all over 0:37:18.040 --> 0:37:21.960 the jacket that Ryan was wearing. Elliott is really continuing 0:37:21.960 --> 0:37:24.239 to just be the mayor of asshole City, and he's 0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:26.440 just like, what do we here for a light show? 0:37:26.520 --> 0:37:27.799 Like what is this? Like what is it? 0:37:27.880 --> 0:37:29.239 Just like I mean, if you're running it for tests, 0:37:29.280 --> 0:37:31.200 like why did you bring us down here? Like and 0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:33.680 then he just kind of walks out and Warner goes, 0:37:33.840 --> 0:37:37.000 Sometimes all that brooding intensity is just annoying, and I'm like, 0:37:37.200 --> 0:37:37.680 put it. 0:37:37.640 --> 0:37:40.359 On a T shirt, Doctor Warner. I love it. 0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:43.360 I mean, if you told me fifteen years ago that 0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:46.200 I would be hating on Stabler this hard, I would 0:37:46.239 --> 0:37:47.080 never have believed you. 0:37:47.920 --> 0:37:51.640 I can't believe how much I've turned on him recent 0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:53.800 like revisiting and such. 0:37:54.200 --> 0:37:57.319 We've all grown this toxic maxculinity will not stand man. 0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:00.479 So Warner also has a cell phone that she found 0:38:00.480 --> 0:38:03.120 with the boy, and Olivia's like, well, we found all that, 0:38:03.120 --> 0:38:04.799 we accounted for all the cell phones, so this one 0:38:04.880 --> 0:38:07.839 must be actually Gaetano's cell phone. And it turns out 0:38:07.880 --> 0:38:12.040 it is Gaetano's work phone, and the tech is able 0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:14.360 to basically because it's a work phone, they have this 0:38:14.440 --> 0:38:17.040 extra tracking software on it because no one trusts their employees, 0:38:17.360 --> 0:38:19.680 and they're able to pull up all of Gaetano's whereabouts 0:38:19.719 --> 0:38:20.560 for the last month. 0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:21.560 Yeah. 0:38:21.560 --> 0:38:24.160 And I also was about to say, when has Melinda 0:38:24.160 --> 0:38:25.040 ever failed you? 0:38:25.080 --> 0:38:28.719 Motherfucker? Yeah? When has she ever played games with? You? 0:38:28.960 --> 0:38:30.960 Always comes through right. 0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:34.640 Sometimes I have had the thought before, why wasn't this 0:38:34.680 --> 0:38:37.239 a phone call you? Know, because sometimes they do go 0:38:37.320 --> 0:38:39.000 all the way to the Emmy's office and it's like. 0:38:39.360 --> 0:38:40.880 Okay, I feel like you could have texted that. 0:38:41.040 --> 0:38:42.759 You know why it's not a phone call because it's 0:38:42.760 --> 0:38:44.440 not cinematic and we need to see her. 0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:48.759 I know, of course, Okay, sorry, I believe I believe you. 0:38:48.840 --> 0:38:50.040 I'm just saying this. 0:38:50.239 --> 0:38:52.120 In this instance, it's like she had to give you 0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:55.520 the cell phone and the other information is important too, 0:38:55.680 --> 0:39:00.120 So he's just being a bitch. And now, well, well 0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:03.840 Olivia's out there chasing down fucking lists of places this 0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:07.080 guy has been. Elliott's just like showing up at Huang's 0:39:07.120 --> 0:39:10.560 office like crying because he basically won't go see a therapist. 0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:12.120 And he's like. 0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:14.879 I wish I didn't, and Houanng's like care so much 0:39:15.400 --> 0:39:17.360 and he's like, that's what makes you a good partner, 0:39:17.400 --> 0:39:20.200 and it's like okay, and then he goes, she made 0:39:20.280 --> 0:39:22.719 me turn away and he's like how how did she 0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:26.399 make you do anything? And this is the full philosophy 0:39:26.440 --> 0:39:28.879 of the summer camp that I went to where as 0:39:28.920 --> 0:39:32.160 a counselor, they taught us like this whole philosophy of 0:39:32.560 --> 0:39:35.680 uh well, it's been called many things. Reality therapy control theory, 0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:37.400 but like basically the idea that no one makes you 0:39:37.440 --> 0:39:39.920 feel any way. You feel the things you feel. You 0:39:40.000 --> 0:39:43.040 choose to feel how you want to feel. So it's 0:39:43.080 --> 0:39:46.440 exactly what Hawang is talking about here. You made your decision, 0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:49.440 you chose your feeling for Olivia, and that's not something 0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:52.680 you can blame on her. And so Elliott does realize 0:39:52.680 --> 0:39:54.600 eventually that it was his own choice and that he's 0:39:54.640 --> 0:39:58.719 responsible for it. So now he's back at the precinct 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:01.680 and he gets the results of the glowing a phosphorescent 0:40:01.719 --> 0:40:06.439 substance on Ryan's jacket are copper and zinc cadmium sul fight. 0:40:07.000 --> 0:40:08.799 Of course, this is going to lead us into a 0:40:08.880 --> 0:40:11.880 Munch monologue where we don't really care, but he basically 0:40:11.960 --> 0:40:14.040 is like, well, the military was spreading the stuff all 0:40:14.080 --> 0:40:16.000 over the city back in the seventy whatever. 0:40:16.760 --> 0:40:17.920 We basically find. 0:40:17.719 --> 0:40:20.880 Out that this is a chemical that like was involved 0:40:20.880 --> 0:40:23.520 with sort of like a simulation of nuclear testing, So 0:40:24.120 --> 0:40:27.360 it would be probably found at an old military facility 0:40:27.400 --> 0:40:30.040 or like a current military facility. So Stabler Menson meet 0:40:30.160 --> 0:40:32.439 up at this industrial site in New Jersey, a metal 0:40:32.480 --> 0:40:35.239 plating facility, but it was once a military facility, so 0:40:35.280 --> 0:40:36.840 they're kind of they feel like they're getting closed. The 0:40:36.840 --> 0:40:40.279 place looks totally shut down, perfectly great place to hide 0:40:40.280 --> 0:40:43.719 a child and hide out if you're a wanted fugitive. 0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:48.160 So they enter the facility really quietly, they smell cigarettes. 0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:50.200 They kind of know that they're closed. They separate so 0:40:50.239 --> 0:40:53.000 they can close in on Gaetano and there's kind of 0:40:53.000 --> 0:40:56.120 a struggle that we don't see, and then a shot 0:40:56.200 --> 0:40:58.879 is fired in Olivia like you know, jucks for cover, 0:40:59.040 --> 0:41:02.600 and when she comes back up, she basically sees that 0:41:02.640 --> 0:41:05.959 Gaetano has Elliott like with a gun to his head, 0:41:06.280 --> 0:41:07.520 and they're both screaming like. 0:41:07.520 --> 0:41:10.120 Drop your weapon, shoot him, drop your wepon, shoot him. 0:41:10.160 --> 0:41:14.600 It's like really really intense, and I don't know what 0:41:14.640 --> 0:41:17.760 I would do. I mean I would probably just cry 0:41:17.920 --> 0:41:18.520 or so, I don't know. 0:41:20.000 --> 0:41:23.719 So there's a full standoff happening in this final act 0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:26.480 of the episode. It's just like Olivia is trying to 0:41:26.520 --> 0:41:29.839 talk Victor down, but you know, he's like this full sociopath, 0:41:29.960 --> 0:41:30.680 so he's lying. 0:41:30.760 --> 0:41:32.920 He's like, I killed Rebecca. Oh no, wait, just kidding, 0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:33.840 she might still be alive. 0:41:33.920 --> 0:41:35.440 I think I left her in a van in Newark, 0:41:35.520 --> 0:41:37.160 like you guys can go find her, like you know, 0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:40.200 he's giving them all these lies, but you can tell 0:41:40.239 --> 0:41:43.440 he's getting spooped because like the Eludaimon, Phillips is doing 0:41:43.480 --> 0:41:45.799 a lot of like really good facial acting where he's like, oh, 0:41:45.920 --> 0:41:48.520 actually you know, and you can kind of he's not 0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:51.640 like the most cool, calm serial killer of all time, 0:41:51.719 --> 0:41:55.000 Like he's definitely realizes he's being closed in on because 0:41:55.040 --> 0:41:58.480 he knows there's backup coming, and he's like, you know, 0:41:58.640 --> 0:42:00.799 kind of taunting Olivia, like you better take me out 0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:01.360 in one shot. 0:42:01.440 --> 0:42:02.560 My reflexes are pretty good. 0:42:02.560 --> 0:42:04.600 I could shoot your partner before I go down, like 0:42:05.200 --> 0:42:08.560 all this stuff, and then at one point he goes, uh, 0:42:08.600 --> 0:42:10.600 but yeah, try it. Definitely, it'll probably turn out great. 0:42:10.640 --> 0:42:12.160 And I thought that was really funny. I was like, 0:42:12.160 --> 0:42:14.400 look at this funny serial killer. He just had a 0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:15.440 little bit of comedy. 0:42:15.960 --> 0:42:18.839 And Stabler is so annoying in this scene that I'm 0:42:18.880 --> 0:42:19.960 on the side of the killer. 0:42:20.160 --> 0:42:24.680 It's like it's too much. He's screaming at Ben. Yeah, 0:42:24.719 --> 0:42:28.840 he just keeps going shoot him. It's like it's a lot. 0:42:29.360 --> 0:42:33.520 So they totally realize he's lying about the girl like that, 0:42:33.719 --> 0:42:35.879 I mean they think pretty much that he's killed her, 0:42:37.440 --> 0:42:41.000 and they're just Ellie and Olivia are just making like intense, 0:42:41.080 --> 0:42:44.239 prolonged eye contact for a lot of this standoff, and 0:42:44.239 --> 0:42:45.520 then Olivia says I'm. 0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:48.600 Sorry at one point or sorry, and I can't tell. 0:42:48.480 --> 0:42:50.480 If it's because she's about to shoot him or because 0:42:50.480 --> 0:42:51.719 she's refusing to shoot him. 0:42:51.960 --> 0:42:54.799 And then suddenly, out of nowhere, a sniper like blows. 0:42:54.480 --> 0:42:58.080 Gaetano's face off, Like a guy from the NYPD comes 0:42:58.120 --> 0:43:01.719 in from the side quiet and has just you know, 0:43:01.840 --> 0:43:02.480 suspect down. 0:43:02.680 --> 0:43:04.760 What if it was a cop from Italy just visiting, 0:43:05.480 --> 0:43:05.960 just helping. 0:43:06.680 --> 0:43:10.759 Sorry, because they trade people, yeah, you know, they send 0:43:10.760 --> 0:43:13.759 their man in Rome over there and all that. So yeah, 0:43:13.800 --> 0:43:17.480 a member of the Carabinieri from Rome shoots guy Dona's 0:43:17.480 --> 0:43:20.359 face off, and then Elliott and Olivia are just kind 0:43:20.360 --> 0:43:23.360 of standing there staring at each other. It's really intense, 0:43:23.600 --> 0:43:25.880 Like the other cops are moving in kind of to 0:43:26.000 --> 0:43:28.120 assess the scene, and these two are just staring at 0:43:28.160 --> 0:43:28.480 each other. 0:43:28.520 --> 0:43:31.320 And then suddenly they hear like something faint off in 0:43:31.360 --> 0:43:31.720 the distant. 0:43:31.800 --> 0:43:34.600 Elliot's like, everybody be quiet, and they can kind of 0:43:34.640 --> 0:43:40.319 hear a child's crying, whining and so they investigate in 0:43:40.360 --> 0:43:42.400 the warehouse, they find Rebecca in a crate. 0:43:42.600 --> 0:43:43.280 She's alive. 0:43:44.320 --> 0:43:47.440 So that's like the small silver lining on this horrific 0:43:47.600 --> 0:43:48.640 episode of crime. 0:43:48.920 --> 0:43:51.439 I'm also acting like so annoyed, but it's only because 0:43:51.440 --> 0:43:55.120 I've seen this episode dozens of times and it is 0:43:55.160 --> 0:43:57.319 a really intense, scary scene. If you don't know what's 0:43:57.360 --> 0:44:00.279 going to happen, Yes, you know, you're like Stabler, your 0:44:00.320 --> 0:44:02.640 fucking mouth, Benson know what's up. But then you're like Benson, 0:44:03.000 --> 0:44:06.120 he like lou Diamond Phillips is you know, he's a lunatic. 0:44:06.160 --> 0:44:08.000 He'll kill all of you like it is. 0:44:08.120 --> 0:44:11.960 Yeah, it is a very intense, awesome scene. I understand 0:44:12.000 --> 0:44:13.359 why Neil Bhaer loves it. 0:44:13.840 --> 0:44:17.280 Yeah, it's a it's really I mean, this episode fully 0:44:17.320 --> 0:44:22.080 tests their relationship the whole time. So at the hospital 0:44:22.160 --> 0:44:25.560 we find out that Rebecca's okay, Like, because they were 0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:27.640 on the run so much, he didn't really have much 0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:30.080 time to inflict any physical injury on her, so she's 0:44:30.080 --> 0:44:33.880 actually pretty okay. Besides the trauma of about her whole 0:44:33.920 --> 0:44:35.200 family being fucking killed. 0:44:35.239 --> 0:44:38.360 She's not okay, but she's physically okay. 0:44:38.600 --> 0:44:42.080 She will never be okay, right, and Ellie and Olivia 0:44:42.120 --> 0:44:43.719 are kind of having a heart to hear and she 0:44:43.840 --> 0:44:46.319 and He's like, I know you would have taken the 0:44:46.320 --> 0:44:48.680 shot and she's like, no, I wouldn't have, Like you 0:44:48.719 --> 0:44:51.120 expect me to cause your death to take you away 0:44:51.120 --> 0:44:54.600 from your children and your wife, like and then she 0:44:54.719 --> 0:44:57.399 says what about me? Like the idea of living without 0:44:57.440 --> 0:45:00.160 Stabler is so unthinkable to her, Like how could I 0:45:00.280 --> 0:45:03.640 possibly have ended your life or been part of that? 0:45:04.239 --> 0:45:06.359 And he's like, well, we both chose each other over 0:45:06.400 --> 0:45:08.200 the job, and we can't let that happen again or 0:45:08.239 --> 0:45:10.719 we can't be partners. And he's like, you and this 0:45:10.800 --> 0:45:12.440 job are the only things I've gotten anymore, and I 0:45:12.440 --> 0:45:16.960 don't want to wreck that. So final button of the 0:45:17.000 --> 0:45:20.920 episode is Olivia goes into Craigan's office and he's like, 0:45:20.960 --> 0:45:22.719 what's up live, and she's like, I want a new 0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:28.560 partner and Dick, Well, it's really a nutty episode because 0:45:28.960 --> 0:45:32.160 do you think they want you to think that Stabler. 0:45:31.840 --> 0:45:33.440 Is the one that's going to call off the partnership? 0:45:33.440 --> 0:45:36.520 But really it's like Olivia, like, I think she realizes 0:45:36.560 --> 0:45:38.640 how much he is meaning. 0:45:38.320 --> 0:45:41.720 To her, But what's the next episode? This isn't before, 0:45:41.800 --> 0:45:45.320 like because they don't switch off partner. No, what happens 0:45:45.520 --> 0:45:47.040 he has a new partner. He teams up with a 0:45:47.040 --> 0:45:49.200 new partner to investiato sexual. It's called Fat. 0:45:49.520 --> 0:45:50.160 Yes, okay. 0:45:50.320 --> 0:45:55.480 Fat is a really funny episode, and Anthony Anderson is 0:45:55.760 --> 0:45:58.640 like a dick and a brute, and Craigan pairs them 0:45:58.760 --> 0:46:01.520 up so Stabler can learn what it's like to work 0:46:01.560 --> 0:46:04.520 with someone that doesn't know how to follow the rules. 0:46:04.960 --> 0:46:09.160 Yes, and I believe also this coincided with her taking 0:46:09.160 --> 0:46:10.040 a pregnancy leave. 0:46:10.680 --> 0:46:13.200 Yes, well, because I was also gonna say, I don't 0:46:13.239 --> 0:46:15.120 know why I said this episode so funny. I always 0:46:15.239 --> 0:46:18.520 was fine with it. But the actress Rooney Mara has 0:46:18.600 --> 0:46:19.959 talked shit about. 0:46:20.040 --> 0:46:22.799 Being on SVU and this episode. She's just been like 0:46:23.120 --> 0:46:26.000 she's just been like that episode was fucking stupid, Like 0:46:26.120 --> 0:46:27.920 she just didn't her dad like. 0:46:27.880 --> 0:46:30.920 Owns the Giants and she's a billionaire. He's like the 0:46:30.960 --> 0:46:34.040 page like each parent owns an NFLT. Yeah, I'm sure 0:46:34.040 --> 0:46:35.960 she's like, why did I bother doing one episode of 0:46:35.960 --> 0:46:39.680 episodic television? Like who caresn't she with somebody like terrible 0:46:39.760 --> 0:46:40.200 right now? 0:46:40.239 --> 0:46:43.600 Like yeah, walking Phoenix, Syla buff Oh No, yeah, walking. 0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:48.040 Okay, let's take a quick break, any break, and then 0:46:48.120 --> 0:46:50.320 Lisa will take us through the true crime. 0:47:02.760 --> 0:47:07.200 Hello, welcome back. This crime is bad and the criminal 0:47:07.280 --> 0:47:08.799 is bad. And I don't know if this is good 0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:12.479 news or not. But he did just actually die March 0:47:12.560 --> 0:47:13.960 twenty ninth, twenty twenty one. 0:47:14.000 --> 0:47:15.640 He died of brain cancer in jail. 0:47:16.280 --> 0:47:18.280 So you know, if you want to pop a champagne 0:47:18.280 --> 0:47:20.279 glass while you listen to the rest of this, maybe 0:47:20.280 --> 0:47:24.240 you'll be happy. He did have like he got charged 0:47:24.320 --> 0:47:27.480 and convicted of with like ten life sentences and ten 0:47:27.560 --> 0:47:30.040 death penalties, like he was gonna die in prison no 0:47:30.120 --> 0:47:32.560 matter what. And I don't know whatever. It's brain cancer. 0:47:32.600 --> 0:47:37.360 So Lou Diamond Phillips character is based on Joseph Edward Duncan. 0:47:38.080 --> 0:47:41.959 And what's wild is they made Lou Diamond Phillips character 0:47:42.040 --> 0:47:44.560 have three names too. There is a lot of similarities. 0:47:44.719 --> 0:47:46.960 A lot of serial killers have three names because you 0:47:47.000 --> 0:47:48.600 don't want to you don't want to mix them up 0:47:48.600 --> 0:47:49.239 with someone else. 0:47:49.480 --> 0:47:50.959 Oh is that what it is? Yeah? 0:47:50.960 --> 0:47:52.920 Because like if there was like another serial code named 0:47:52.960 --> 0:47:54.920 Lisa Traeger, like when you want it to be like 0:47:55.320 --> 0:47:57.399 Liza Mercedes Trager or. 0:47:57.360 --> 0:47:59.360 Something like that. So that it's like, that's not me, 0:47:59.440 --> 0:48:02.640 that I'm my middle name. Wow. 0:48:02.920 --> 0:48:04.680 They do it on purpose, so it's not like John 0:48:04.680 --> 0:48:06.400 Wayne Gacy goes by John Wayne Gacy. 0:48:06.480 --> 0:48:09.640 They were just like yeah, because Joseph Duncan, you got 0:48:09.760 --> 0:48:11.719 to think is a pretty kind of easy name. I 0:48:11.760 --> 0:48:13.920 think one of the only people that isn't is like 0:48:13.960 --> 0:48:16.719 Ted Bundy isn't. Jeffrey Dahmer isn't. But a lot of 0:48:16.880 --> 0:48:18.480 serial killers go by three names. 0:48:18.920 --> 0:48:22.800 That is really cool. I like learning that information you 0:48:22.840 --> 0:48:26.280 can always learn. Should I stop going by three names? 0:48:28.080 --> 0:48:30.040 Oh? That is one of my favorite trends on Twitter. 0:48:30.200 --> 0:48:31.960 Like when we all hate someone and then someone has 0:48:31.960 --> 0:48:36.920 to be like, I'm a different Mike Pence, you know, yeah, 0:48:37.000 --> 0:48:39.920 it's not me, and they all interact with each other 0:48:40.040 --> 0:48:44.000 being like, oh, I got it bad, so I enjoy it. 0:48:44.080 --> 0:48:44.279 Yeah. 0:48:44.320 --> 0:48:47.120 Like do you remember when Becky with the Good Hair 0:48:47.400 --> 0:48:49.960 thing came out and everybody was confusing Rachel Ray with 0:48:50.040 --> 0:48:53.120 Rachel Roy. Yes, and everybody was sending Rachel Roy like 0:48:53.120 --> 0:48:55.280 they were like putting bees in all of her Instagram. 0:48:55.360 --> 0:48:57.360 It's like, that's not that's Rachel Ray. 0:48:58.800 --> 0:48:59.439 I love it. 0:49:01.280 --> 0:49:06.040 So this takes place in Cordelaine Idaho. I don't know 0:49:06.080 --> 0:49:08.319 if I'm saying it right. I spelled it phonetically so 0:49:08.360 --> 0:49:11.120 I wouldn't fuck it up. And then it still looks insane. 0:49:11.200 --> 0:49:13.319 Yeah, Curdalaane I think is what it is. 0:49:13.400 --> 0:49:19.280 Yeah, Cordelaine, Cordlino, Idaho, Idaho, Idaho, not Ohio potatoes, Okay. 0:49:19.320 --> 0:49:20.920 So it's a town. 0:49:21.360 --> 0:49:23.200 You know, no one fucking lives in an, Idaho, So 0:49:23.360 --> 0:49:27.640 it's a chill place. There's fishing vacations. It's not a 0:49:27.680 --> 0:49:32.520 bustling metropolis. So it's a calm town. And then May sixteenth, 0:49:32.600 --> 0:49:35.440 two thousand and five, the most brutal crime in the area. 0:49:35.280 --> 0:49:36.880 That has ever happened happened. 0:49:37.520 --> 0:49:42.880 It was a Monday afternoon and Robert Hollinsworth calls the 0:49:42.920 --> 0:49:45.600 cops and he's just a man walking in the neighborhood 0:49:45.960 --> 0:49:49.440 and walks to his neighbor's house and there's blood stains 0:49:49.520 --> 0:49:50.600 all over the front door. 0:49:51.160 --> 0:49:52.680 So he calls the police. 0:49:52.920 --> 0:49:55.680 And it is a small town, so the cop is like, well, 0:49:55.760 --> 0:49:59.640 I know that family, and so he goes over there 0:50:00.120 --> 0:50:02.440 and he sees the blood in the front door. So 0:50:02.480 --> 0:50:05.040 he walks around and in the back there's also blood 0:50:05.040 --> 0:50:07.439 on the back door and the back doors propped open 0:50:07.480 --> 0:50:09.839 a little bit, so we obviously know something fucked up 0:50:09.880 --> 0:50:13.359 is happening, and he calls for backup immediately. And so 0:50:13.400 --> 0:50:16.360 the house is Brenda Grony and she lives with her 0:50:16.400 --> 0:50:19.640 boyfriend Mark McKenzie and there and her three kids, so 0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:22.760 he is also stepdad. Like in the episode of SVU. 0:50:22.880 --> 0:50:26.520 The three kids are Slate is thirteen, Dylan is nine, 0:50:26.680 --> 0:50:30.080 and Shasta is eight, and these are very like nineties 0:50:30.160 --> 0:50:31.160 fun names. 0:50:31.280 --> 0:50:35.560 I really enjoy it. I wish I didn't, since horrific 0:50:35.600 --> 0:50:36.480 things are about to happen. 0:50:37.360 --> 0:50:41.520 So after backup comes all the cops, they enter the 0:50:41.600 --> 0:50:45.160 house and they find a young female and male face 0:50:45.320 --> 0:50:50.000 down and bound with their hands behind their back, and 0:50:50.040 --> 0:50:53.719 then their heads were mutilated. So these people were a 0:50:53.840 --> 0:50:57.439 bludgeoned multiple times in the head and it's just very 0:50:57.560 --> 0:51:01.680 severe head trauma. There were three bodies and they were 0:51:01.800 --> 0:51:05.640 organized head to toe, so it's like an open square 0:51:05.680 --> 0:51:07.239 with a gap missing. I don't know if you need 0:51:07.280 --> 0:51:09.399 to know the positioning of the bodies, but they were 0:51:09.400 --> 0:51:11.560 positioned that way. And there is a third body and 0:51:11.640 --> 0:51:14.560 unfortunately that is thirteen year old Slade, So we have 0:51:14.560 --> 0:51:19.200 thirteen year old Slade mom stepdad are all bludgeoned and dead, 0:51:19.480 --> 0:51:22.560 and there's blood stains everywhere in the house, like every room, 0:51:22.680 --> 0:51:26.319 every wall, there's just blood fucking everywhere. There was blood 0:51:26.360 --> 0:51:28.640 in the little ones rooms. So the other two kids 0:51:28.880 --> 0:51:32.080 and they but they the cops did start to think 0:51:32.120 --> 0:51:35.240 that the kids had a different fate than the people 0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:37.080 in the living room since they weren't there, like they 0:51:37.400 --> 0:51:40.040 just I don't know if it's optimism, but the young 0:51:40.120 --> 0:51:43.319 kids were nowhere to be found, so you know, they're 0:51:43.360 --> 0:51:45.440 not dead in front of you, so that is a 0:51:45.480 --> 0:51:49.000 good sign. By nightfall, they still couldn't find Shasta or Dylan, 0:51:49.440 --> 0:51:54.000 so they contacted the FBI and the dad. It was 0:51:54.080 --> 0:51:57.839 really sad. He was talking, this is an ID Investigates, 0:51:57.880 --> 0:52:00.719 you know crime show that I watched. In it, he 0:52:00.800 --> 0:52:04.120 was like, it's tough because you're grieving one child, but 0:52:04.160 --> 0:52:06.120 you have to put that all aside to go look 0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:07.960 for another one and be hopeful that your. 0:52:07.840 --> 0:52:11.160 Other kids are alive. So it was just, I'm sure 0:52:11.160 --> 0:52:12.680 it's so many feelings to. 0:52:13.320 --> 0:52:16.040 Juggle, like, and this is the biological dad like Glenn 0:52:16.080 --> 0:52:20.920 in the episode, exactly. Yeah, I'm I'm actually pretty shocked 0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:24.560 how close sview really like grasped onto some of these details. 0:52:24.640 --> 0:52:28.680 Usually it's pretty funky and they've really stuck. They really 0:52:28.719 --> 0:52:31.000 stuck to a lot of key facts of this case. 0:52:31.560 --> 0:52:35.040 So an amber alert goes out no clues. Really, I 0:52:35.120 --> 0:52:37.200 remember this, by the way, like you're living in New 0:52:37.280 --> 0:52:39.640 York City. I remember these two kids being missing. This 0:52:39.760 --> 0:52:42.040 was like on national news. I feel like I remember 0:52:42.239 --> 0:52:44.640 because I remember the name Shasta. I was like, Shasta 0:52:44.719 --> 0:52:47.640 is like such a that is such a nineties name. 0:52:47.719 --> 0:52:50.480 Like I remember these two kids, uh with their and 0:52:50.560 --> 0:52:52.920 I remember their names like that, they were everywhere. 0:52:53.280 --> 0:52:54.360 I do not remember it. 0:52:54.400 --> 0:52:57.640 Does it did go international since like they just couldn't 0:52:57.680 --> 0:52:59.520 find them for so long and it was so brutal, 0:52:59.560 --> 0:53:05.759 but damn not international. It went national, but they just 0:53:05.800 --> 0:53:07.759 had a really hard time with the case. There was 0:53:07.760 --> 0:53:10.960 no witnesses, fingerprints, weapons, like nothing, so they had to 0:53:11.000 --> 0:53:14.080 spend their time learning about the victims and work outward 0:53:14.200 --> 0:53:17.880 because there was no evidence left behind. So the background 0:53:17.920 --> 0:53:21.360 on the family is Brendan Mark dated seven years great relationship. 0:53:22.040 --> 0:53:25.120 Mark had a manufacturing job in Spokane, which is forty 0:53:25.160 --> 0:53:28.400 miles away, and Brenda gave up her cleaning business to 0:53:28.440 --> 0:53:31.880 stay at home and they were known to be partiers. 0:53:31.880 --> 0:53:34.240 They loved a good time, and he loved the kids, 0:53:34.520 --> 0:53:38.560 and so yeah, they were just like family people who 0:53:38.600 --> 0:53:39.360 loved to party. 0:53:39.560 --> 0:53:41.800 I bet we would be on vacation with them in 0:53:41.880 --> 0:53:42.600 Palm Springs. 0:53:43.960 --> 0:53:47.000 The crime was so violent that they assumed it was 0:53:47.000 --> 0:53:48.880 someone that knew the family and had a lot of 0:53:48.920 --> 0:53:53.480 anger towards these people, but confused about the kidnapping, like 0:53:53.680 --> 0:53:56.759 why wouldn't you snatch the kids when they're walking home 0:53:56.800 --> 0:53:59.000 from school or going to the store to get candy, 0:53:59.080 --> 0:54:02.160 Like why are you killing parents and taking kids? There's 0:54:02.280 --> 0:54:06.480 lots of easier ways to snatch kids. Stay tuned, I'll 0:54:06.520 --> 0:54:11.640 teach you how, Okay. So they were like it has 0:54:11.719 --> 0:54:14.919 to be personal for sure. So they had to rule 0:54:14.960 --> 0:54:17.200 the dad out, and that's Steve, and they had a 0:54:17.239 --> 0:54:20.239 hard time getting along post divorce in terms of like 0:54:20.320 --> 0:54:23.520 custody or real estate. But I mean, like most crime 0:54:23.520 --> 0:54:26.880 movies shows real life cases, you have to exclude like 0:54:26.920 --> 0:54:30.000 the husband, the father, like everyone that's close to it. 0:54:30.400 --> 0:54:33.040 And so what made people suspicious of the dad was 0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:33.440 he was. 0:54:33.400 --> 0:54:36.080 On television and he made a wild statement like a 0:54:36.080 --> 0:54:38.800 plea to the killer, and was like they had nothing 0:54:38.880 --> 0:54:41.080 to do with this. Leave them alone and bring them 0:54:41.120 --> 0:54:43.680 home safely. And so everyone's like, have to do with what, bitch? 0:54:43.800 --> 0:54:46.040 Yeah, what does that mean? Yeah? 0:54:46.120 --> 0:54:49.480 So everyone just like assumed he you know, maybe he 0:54:49.520 --> 0:54:51.880 owed money. I don't know, but they're like, what the 0:54:51.880 --> 0:54:54.040 fuck are you talking about? And so they gave him 0:54:54.040 --> 0:54:56.279 a polygraph to see if there was weird things. There 0:54:56.400 --> 0:54:59.400 was one moment of weird things with the voice. But 0:55:00.080 --> 0:55:02.480 Ronie's like, I was home alone the night of the murders, 0:55:02.640 --> 0:55:05.520 and they found cell phone and laptop records to prove 0:55:05.520 --> 0:55:08.480 that he was home, so he did have an alibi 0:55:08.560 --> 0:55:12.880 for that. Steven Brenda the biological parents. They also have 0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:15.640 two adult sons, Jesse and Vance, and they've both been 0:55:15.680 --> 0:55:16.000 in a lot. 0:55:16.000 --> 0:55:17.400 They've both been in a lot of trouble. 0:55:17.640 --> 0:55:20.560 They were bad teens, you know, drug users, and Jesse 0:55:20.719 --> 0:55:22.960 had an airtight alibi because he was in jail. So 0:55:23.040 --> 0:55:27.040 that's great news for armed robbery. And then Vance, they 0:55:27.080 --> 0:55:30.200 came away with investigating him that he had no involvement, 0:55:30.239 --> 0:55:34.080 and they felt really confident in that decision. So they 0:55:34.280 --> 0:55:37.040 excluded everyone in the family. Now what did they do? 0:55:37.200 --> 0:55:40.640 So the cops went to the tip So they started 0:55:40.640 --> 0:55:44.000 getting tips about a barbecue before the killings. They were 0:55:44.000 --> 0:55:45.960 trying to see if someone from this barbecue did it 0:55:45.960 --> 0:55:49.120 because there was some drama and there was like a 0:55:49.120 --> 0:55:51.480 little fingerprint on the door that matches one of the 0:55:51.480 --> 0:55:54.560 party guests, and that was Gary young Wood. He did 0:55:54.560 --> 0:55:59.200 have a criminal record, and Jesse the son, the older son, 0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:01.000 said young Wood owed his mom. 0:56:00.800 --> 0:56:03.279 And Mark two thousand dollars. So they're like, okay, is 0:56:03.280 --> 0:56:04.080 this a money thing. 0:56:04.719 --> 0:56:06.480 They tried to find him to interview him, but it 0:56:06.520 --> 0:56:08.680 was really hard to find him, and so they got 0:56:08.719 --> 0:56:11.359 an a warrant to track his cell phone to find him, 0:56:11.640 --> 0:56:14.520 and it was super hard to locate him. And more 0:56:14.560 --> 0:56:18.279 suspicious that right after the murders took place, he took 0:56:18.320 --> 0:56:19.040 off time. 0:56:19.880 --> 0:56:21.520 He like went on vacation to Boise. 0:56:21.600 --> 0:56:23.960 So he's nowhere to be found and they're like, he's 0:56:23.960 --> 0:56:26.520 avoiding us because he knows something. But he had a 0:56:26.520 --> 0:56:30.000 parole officer, and so the parole officer contacted him and 0:56:30.480 --> 0:56:32.479 was like, they're looking for you, bro, and he came 0:56:32.800 --> 0:56:35.920 rushing back to town. Okay, so he wanted to clear 0:56:35.960 --> 0:56:37.800 this up. He said that they. 0:56:37.680 --> 0:56:41.680 Grilled for hours with they grill, Oh, they grilled him 0:56:41.680 --> 0:56:43.520 for hours. This is not about the barber they grilled. 0:56:43.520 --> 0:56:44.960 This is not about the barbecue anymore. 0:56:47.360 --> 0:56:50.400 So they grilled this guy for hours. He denied to 0:56:50.400 --> 0:56:52.840 have anything to do with these murders. He offers to 0:56:52.880 --> 0:56:56.080 take a lie detector test, he passes it, and again 0:56:56.480 --> 0:56:58.560 like so they've cleared everyone and they have to go 0:56:58.600 --> 0:57:01.239 to the more tips tips was maybe it was a 0:57:01.239 --> 0:57:05.560 biker gang situation because the weapon was a hammer, and 0:57:05.680 --> 0:57:09.319 I guess outlaw bikers do hammer jobs, like that's their 0:57:09.960 --> 0:57:13.640 cool way to kill. And and Brenda was really into 0:57:13.680 --> 0:57:17.800 motorcycle so they looked into like what was going on, 0:57:18.160 --> 0:57:21.720 and the biker theory also died out, so. 0:57:22.000 --> 0:57:24.400 A lot of dead ends in this case. They can't 0:57:24.400 --> 0:57:24.840 crack it. 0:57:25.040 --> 0:57:28.680 And now by this time, the blood at the crime 0:57:28.720 --> 0:57:31.560 scene comes back like all of the testing, we have 0:57:31.600 --> 0:57:33.920 our own, Melinda Warner, and none of the blood is 0:57:33.960 --> 0:57:37.320 Shasta or Dylan's. So that's good and that, you know, 0:57:37.640 --> 0:57:40.320 is hopeful that the kids are alive somewhere. But what's 0:57:40.320 --> 0:57:42.680 sad is it was the thirteen year old boys. So 0:57:43.080 --> 0:57:45.720 it was his blood all over, which means that he 0:57:45.840 --> 0:57:49.320 was like injured, bleeding in pain, walking around the house 0:57:50.440 --> 0:57:53.600 and then dropped by his mom to fucking die next 0:57:53.600 --> 0:57:56.520 to her. I mean it's brutal. It's really brutal. So 0:57:56.560 --> 0:58:00.200 like the blood all over was this young child's. So 0:58:00.200 --> 0:58:03.000 it's really sad if you need to take a moment. 0:58:04.840 --> 0:58:08.800 And this isn't like they've already exhausted so many different things. 0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:10.920 And it's only May twentieth at this point, only four 0:58:11.000 --> 0:58:14.800 days after the murder, so they have done a lot 0:58:14.800 --> 0:58:15.760 of work, honestly. 0:58:16.600 --> 0:58:17.760 But there is a twist. 0:58:18.400 --> 0:58:21.439 Toxicology reports say that the parents did weed and meth 0:58:21.520 --> 0:58:24.280 hours before they were killed, so they're like, can this 0:58:24.320 --> 0:58:27.280 be a violent drug gang? So they start looking at 0:58:27.280 --> 0:58:30.880 the local skid head gangs that have been robbing people. 0:58:31.440 --> 0:58:34.400 But none of the theories they had explain the child factor. 0:58:34.520 --> 0:58:37.160 So that's what was so hard. It's like, why wouldn't 0:58:37.160 --> 0:58:39.120 you kill everyone? Why are you taking seth? Like just 0:58:39.160 --> 0:58:42.160 it didn't The case didn't make sense to anyone. Top 0:58:42.200 --> 0:58:45.000 behavior analysis people are having trouble figuring it out. 0:58:45.640 --> 0:58:47.520 It's just not typical because. 0:58:47.400 --> 0:58:50.680 Usually they have like serial killer experts and child abduction 0:58:50.960 --> 0:58:53.080 experts and none of them can kind of figure it out. 0:58:53.880 --> 0:58:56.560 There was also no patterns out there that matched the crime, 0:58:57.200 --> 0:59:00.640 so then why would you take the kids, So it's like, 0:59:00.800 --> 0:59:03.240 is it a ransom? Is it to sell them into slavery? 0:59:03.720 --> 0:59:06.440 And so then they were like, if you find out 0:59:06.440 --> 0:59:08.840 why the children are taken, maybe that'll help us solve 0:59:08.840 --> 0:59:11.920 the crime. By the end of May, there's one hundred 0:59:11.920 --> 0:59:14.280 and fifty people working around the clock to solve this crime. 0:59:14.320 --> 0:59:16.680 I mean, people want to fucking solve this crime. A 0:59:16.720 --> 0:59:19.600 local woman comes forward with a new lead. And this 0:59:19.640 --> 0:59:21.800 happens on forensic files all the time, like so many 0:59:21.800 --> 0:59:23.880 cases I think would never ever get solved if it 0:59:23.920 --> 0:59:28.120 wasn't for just like one wild tip. And so it's 0:59:28.600 --> 0:59:31.280 kind of interesting, you know, say something, see something, or 0:59:31.400 --> 0:59:34.720 I'll you know, switch that. But so local woman comes 0:59:34.760 --> 0:59:37.640 forward with a new lead. The night the family was murdered, 0:59:37.680 --> 0:59:41.400 she was traveling between court Alane and Spokane and around 0:59:41.400 --> 0:59:44.320 two am she saw a dark colored vehicle pull off 0:59:44.440 --> 0:59:48.000 just east to the house and there were three men 0:59:48.040 --> 0:59:50.000 and maybe one of them was involved in the crime. 0:59:50.120 --> 0:59:53.320 It didn't seem promising at all, but they were pulled 0:59:53.320 --> 0:59:55.439 over only one mile away from the house, so it's 0:59:55.480 --> 0:59:59.320 like worth investigating. But also like I would never think 0:59:59.360 --> 1:00:01.040 that's a tip, Like you know what I mean, if 1:00:01.080 --> 1:00:02.440 I saw a car in the middle of the night, 1:00:02.520 --> 1:00:05.640 just driving off an exit, Like I don't know if 1:00:05.960 --> 1:00:08.160 I would call and be like, maybe it's this car. 1:00:08.320 --> 1:00:10.560 So it's yeah. 1:00:09.880 --> 1:00:12.240 It's like I saw three guys a mile away from 1:00:12.240 --> 1:00:14.120 where this happened, and they looked weird. 1:00:14.200 --> 1:00:16.560 I mean, yeah, it is kind of I. 1:00:16.840 --> 1:00:18.840 Mean, I hope to help solve the crime one day, 1:00:18.960 --> 1:00:20.960 or well, I hope no crimes ever happened around me too. 1:00:21.080 --> 1:00:21.520 Okay. 1:00:21.560 --> 1:00:28.240 So another informant calls as an anonymous tipster and was like, 1:00:28.320 --> 1:00:32.320 I think some of my associates I heard them talking 1:00:32.320 --> 1:00:36.720 about burying some bodies in Silver Valley, Idaho. So he 1:00:36.760 --> 1:00:38.960 calls with that and he gives the names of the 1:00:39.000 --> 1:00:43.520 three guys. I don't who cares, Mike, Ray, Ben, Okay, 1:00:43.560 --> 1:00:45.160 these are the guys. The guys like I heard them 1:00:45.160 --> 1:00:47.680 talking about bearing a body. They did all have a 1:00:47.680 --> 1:00:49.880 criminal record, and they drove a car that was similar 1:00:50.120 --> 1:00:52.600 to the one that the lady called in. The cell 1:00:52.640 --> 1:00:55.080 phone activity analysis says that they were in the area 1:00:55.080 --> 1:00:57.040 of the crime scene around the time of the crime. 1:00:58.080 --> 1:01:01.080 So with these guys like, okay, this is it, this 1:01:01.240 --> 1:01:03.280 is it, And so they're setting up surveillance and like 1:01:03.320 --> 1:01:06.360 getting ready to investigate these guys, thinking they've zeroed in 1:01:06.400 --> 1:01:08.960 on who did it, but they get a call two 1:01:08.960 --> 1:01:13.640 am Saturday morning that is earth shattering. FBI agents said 1:01:13.640 --> 1:01:16.920 that a local waitress, Amber Dern, just came back from 1:01:16.960 --> 1:01:19.400 her break and saw new people in her section and 1:01:19.520 --> 1:01:21.000 went there and it was fucking Shasta. 1:01:21.080 --> 1:01:24.560 She recognized Shasta's photo and she. 1:01:24.560 --> 1:01:27.080 Said Shasta had down hands in a prayer position and 1:01:27.120 --> 1:01:30.080 body language just screamed help me. So she went over 1:01:30.120 --> 1:01:33.240 to the table like everything was normal. She took the 1:01:33.400 --> 1:01:36.560 orders and then snuck back into the rest like snuck 1:01:36.640 --> 1:01:38.160 to the back of the restaurant and told the manager 1:01:38.200 --> 1:01:40.800 to call nine one one, And when the squad car 1:01:40.840 --> 1:01:42.760 pulled up, she walked outside and was like, you need 1:01:42.760 --> 1:01:45.680 a call for backup. I am positive that this is 1:01:45.760 --> 1:01:49.000 Shasta and whoever fucking took her. So, I mean, I 1:01:49.040 --> 1:01:51.240 hope Amber got a key to the city because she 1:01:51.440 --> 1:01:53.760 really like handled everything well. She was not the guy 1:01:53.760 --> 1:01:57.439 in the bus terminal making a scene and looking and talking. 1:01:57.720 --> 1:02:00.520 Like she fucking handled Take a note. Take a note 1:02:00.520 --> 1:02:03.160 from this waitress, you little bitch. You gotta act like 1:02:03.480 --> 1:02:05.480 nothing is wrong. 1:02:06.480 --> 1:02:09.000 So they enter cautiously and walk him out to the 1:02:09.000 --> 1:02:10.800 squad car with the no real issues, and then the 1:02:11.560 --> 1:02:14.760 cop grabbed Amber and was like, hey, go sit with 1:02:14.840 --> 1:02:17.480 the girl. And so Amber said that she sat with 1:02:17.520 --> 1:02:19.440 Shasta and that. 1:02:19.480 --> 1:02:23.520 She started to cry and so and how long is 1:02:23.560 --> 1:02:27.480 she She's been with this man for two months now? Yeah? 1:02:27.520 --> 1:02:28.000 Wow? 1:02:28.600 --> 1:02:34.520 Yeah, And so Shasta's rushed to the hospital and Steve, 1:02:34.600 --> 1:02:38.120 the biological father, reunites with his daughter. So now they 1:02:38.120 --> 1:02:42.160 have Joseph Edward Duncan in custody. He's from North Dakota 1:02:43.000 --> 1:02:46.200 and they just they just start interrogating him, and this 1:02:46.280 --> 1:02:49.360 is like so crazy. He's a level three sex offender 1:02:49.360 --> 1:02:52.560 and a fugitive from an old molestation case from Minnesota. 1:02:53.280 --> 1:02:55.920 His first sex crime occurred in nineteen seventy eight when 1:02:55.960 --> 1:02:57.800 he was fifteen years old, and at that point he 1:02:57.840 --> 1:03:02.640 already admitted to raping like thirteen boys. So he was 1:03:02.880 --> 1:03:06.720 like a fucking full on rapist by fifteen. And then 1:03:06.840 --> 1:03:11.560 two years later, in nineteen eighty, he got sent to 1:03:11.640 --> 1:03:15.360 prison in Kansas City from molesting a teenage boy and 1:03:15.400 --> 1:03:19.320 there he was diagnosed a sexual psychopath and he had 1:03:19.360 --> 1:03:23.919 like treatment and psychicals and therapy while there. During those years, 1:03:24.000 --> 1:03:27.360 he committed crimes but he did not confess to them, 1:03:27.400 --> 1:03:30.280 and they were not connected to him until he was 1:03:30.640 --> 1:03:33.120 put in prison for the crimes that he committed against 1:03:33.160 --> 1:03:37.280 the Grody family. So he was committing tons of crimes 1:03:37.520 --> 1:03:40.600 that no one was able to solve. So like then 1:03:40.600 --> 1:03:44.240 when he was finally arrested, all these unsolved crimes were solved. 1:03:44.440 --> 1:03:46.520 So he went to jail in nineteen eighty and he 1:03:46.600 --> 1:03:49.640 stayed in jail for fourteen years and ninety four, and 1:03:49.680 --> 1:03:52.120 then he was released and so, and then he committed 1:03:52.120 --> 1:03:54.240 a bunch of crimes because he got out six years early. 1:03:54.840 --> 1:03:56.880 Yeah, but no one caught him during those times, so 1:03:56.920 --> 1:03:59.600 he was just like living it up until two thousand 1:03:59.640 --> 1:04:01.760 and four. So in two thousand and four, he got 1:04:01.840 --> 1:04:04.680 charged with sexually molesting a six year old boy in Minnesota, 1:04:05.360 --> 1:04:07.680 but Duncan was not ready to go back to jail, 1:04:07.800 --> 1:04:10.959 so he borrowed fifteen grand for bail, and he skipped town. 1:04:11.480 --> 1:04:15.600 The fact that a judge offered this fucking lunatic bail, 1:04:17.240 --> 1:04:18.280 I don't understand it. 1:04:18.320 --> 1:04:21.680 I just don't understand it, Like it's really what the fuck? 1:04:21.960 --> 1:04:24.479 Like, he spent fourteen years in prison, he did it again, 1:04:24.520 --> 1:04:25.760 Why does he get bail? 1:04:25.880 --> 1:04:29.000 I don't understand it. Yeah, So he wrote a. 1:04:28.920 --> 1:04:32.400 Lot of stuff on his web page about like society's 1:04:32.400 --> 1:04:36.400 persecution of sex offenders and that it's not fair the 1:04:36.400 --> 1:04:39.960 way he was treated, and he could have fought the 1:04:40.000 --> 1:04:42.920 case and risked prison, but he just didn't want to, 1:04:43.000 --> 1:04:44.400 so he went on the round to live out his 1:04:44.520 --> 1:04:49.360 ultimate fantasy. And his final blog entry, I just can't 1:04:49.360 --> 1:04:52.920 believe these killers have blogs, So he wrote them right 1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:56.840 before the murders, and in quotes, he writes, I am scared, 1:04:56.920 --> 1:05:00.000 alone and confused, and my reaction is to strike out 1:05:00.120 --> 1:05:04.800 toward the perceived source of my misery, society. My intent 1:05:04.880 --> 1:05:07.600 is to harm society as much as I can and 1:05:07.640 --> 1:05:13.360 then die. So wow, But they're like, where the fuck 1:05:13.440 --> 1:05:16.800 is Dylan? Like we're getting all these theories and things 1:05:16.800 --> 1:05:19.680 from him and his history, but where is Dylan? 1:05:20.120 --> 1:05:22.800 But he invoked his Fifth Amendment rights and did not talk. 1:05:23.600 --> 1:05:26.720 They did find a lot of evidence in the car, shotgun, laptop, 1:05:26.800 --> 1:05:30.000 GPS device, empty package, was ZIP ties that were used, 1:05:30.320 --> 1:05:33.400 and then a microdrive that contained images of the children 1:05:33.440 --> 1:05:36.920 while in captivity. They can't find the murder weapon or 1:05:36.960 --> 1:05:38.880 anything that will lead to the missing boy, and they 1:05:38.920 --> 1:05:39.720 ran out of options. 1:05:39.760 --> 1:05:40.360 So they had to. 1:05:40.320 --> 1:05:42.800 Turn to Shasta, and I think they were like trying 1:05:42.800 --> 1:05:45.160 to spare her from like reliving all this, but they 1:05:45.160 --> 1:05:47.960 had to interview her to get information. And the show 1:05:48.080 --> 1:05:51.919 I was watching use the word haunting, and they said 1:05:51.920 --> 1:05:54.560 what Shasta said was just so fucking haunting, and I 1:05:54.720 --> 1:05:57.120 got excited that they used our word, but sad that 1:05:57.200 --> 1:06:01.240 anyone experienced anything so haunting. So she said that the 1:06:01.320 --> 1:06:03.880 night of the murder, she woke up to her mother 1:06:03.960 --> 1:06:06.520 calling for her, and when she got to the living room, 1:06:06.560 --> 1:06:09.280 she saw Joseph Duncan standing over her family. 1:06:08.920 --> 1:06:10.480 With a shotguh, my god. 1:06:10.880 --> 1:06:12.480 He took the two kids and laid them in the 1:06:12.480 --> 1:06:14.720 backyard because he didn't want them to see what he 1:06:14.760 --> 1:06:16.480 was going to do to their family, because he wanted 1:06:16.480 --> 1:06:18.800 to take them calm, and so it wasn't like to 1:06:18.840 --> 1:06:20.960 spare them the violence. He basically was like, if they 1:06:21.000 --> 1:06:24.320 saw me murder their family, they wouldn't have just gone 1:06:24.360 --> 1:06:26.600 with me. And so he left them in the yard 1:06:26.720 --> 1:06:29.680 tied up while he did that, and then he drove 1:06:29.800 --> 1:06:33.360 ninety five miles away to Saint Regis, Montana, and once 1:06:33.800 --> 1:06:36.760 there he sexually assaults both of them. They spent six 1:06:36.800 --> 1:06:39.720 weeks in captivity, and then he took Dylan into a 1:06:39.880 --> 1:06:42.960 un abandoned cabin, tortured him, lested him, and then shoots 1:06:43.040 --> 1:06:45.960 Dylan in the head in front of Shasta and burns 1:06:46.200 --> 1:06:47.000 the boy's body. 1:06:48.080 --> 1:06:49.160 Jesus. 1:06:49.440 --> 1:06:53.480 He said he spared Shasta's life because he taught her 1:06:53.480 --> 1:06:53.880 how to. 1:06:53.920 --> 1:06:59.280 Love whatever you say, buddy. Yeah. 1:06:59.320 --> 1:07:02.920 And then one of the talking head authors crime people 1:07:03.000 --> 1:07:05.800 in this special said that she believes he had no 1:07:06.280 --> 1:07:08.800 intention into keeping her alive and he just fucked up 1:07:08.800 --> 1:07:10.880 with the diner and she's lucky to be alive, and 1:07:11.160 --> 1:07:12.520 he would have never kept her alive. 1:07:12.600 --> 1:07:15.040 So I don't thank god that waitress. Thank God for 1:07:15.080 --> 1:07:16.040 that waitress. 1:07:16.440 --> 1:07:19.960 Yeah. They did find the remains of Dylan where Shasta 1:07:19.960 --> 1:07:22.800 said the murder took place. They confront Duncan with all 1:07:22.840 --> 1:07:26.440 the evidence, and he finally confesses he left Minnesota to 1:07:26.480 --> 1:07:28.840 not go back to jail and was just driving looking 1:07:28.840 --> 1:07:33.680 for targets and he like by chance saw their house 1:07:33.680 --> 1:07:36.760 and saw Shasta and Dylan playing in the house around 1:07:36.800 --> 1:07:39.720 the house and was like, that's that's my person. Spent 1:07:39.800 --> 1:07:41.600 the next day and a half checking out the house. 1:07:41.680 --> 1:07:45.840 He brought the weapon, like he tried to commit the 1:07:45.840 --> 1:07:48.160 perfect crime, and it took you know, days of planning, 1:07:48.640 --> 1:07:52.040 but it was like a random family. He entered through 1:07:52.040 --> 1:07:55.000 an unlocked door while Brenda was asleep in the living room. 1:07:55.000 --> 1:07:57.080 He turned the weapon on her and said, where is 1:07:57.120 --> 1:07:59.520 the man of the house, and instructed her to lead 1:07:59.600 --> 1:08:02.439 him to the man of the house put zip ties 1:08:02.480 --> 1:08:04.640 on Mark. He wanted them to think it's a robbery 1:08:05.160 --> 1:08:06.880 because if he let them know that he wanted to 1:08:06.880 --> 1:08:09.440 take the kids, they would have fought him harder. So 1:08:09.520 --> 1:08:13.000 he is he is smart, unfortunately, and so he played 1:08:13.000 --> 1:08:16.320 it like a robbery, so they like didn't fight him 1:08:16.760 --> 1:08:20.800 to protect the children. So we still don't know, like 1:08:20.840 --> 1:08:22.600 why he went to that diner and went back to 1:08:22.680 --> 1:08:25.000 the town that Some say it's like because he ran 1:08:25.040 --> 1:08:28.720 out of money. Some say that Shasta did befriend him, 1:08:28.760 --> 1:08:29.240 and like. 1:08:29.680 --> 1:08:31.800 Yeah, like why would you go back to It's back 1:08:31.840 --> 1:08:35.000 in Courtelaine, like that's like begging to be caught. 1:08:35.080 --> 1:08:37.920 Yeah, it's really confusing why he did it. And then 1:08:37.960 --> 1:08:40.439 he just pled guilty to three counts of kidnapping and 1:08:40.520 --> 1:08:44.080 three counts of murder and received six life sentences and 1:08:44.160 --> 1:08:48.320 so yeah, it's good he pled guilty because Shasta didn't 1:08:48.360 --> 1:08:50.080 have to take the stand, and I think everyone was 1:08:50.080 --> 1:08:53.080 trying to protect her. So December third, two thousand and seven, 1:08:53.120 --> 1:08:56.120 he pleads guilty on ten federal charges and he had 1:08:56.160 --> 1:08:58.360 nothing to say, Like his quote is, I have nothing 1:08:58.400 --> 1:09:02.360 to say. And then three years after these horrific crimes, 1:09:02.360 --> 1:09:06.040 he receives three additional life terms plus three death penalties 1:09:06.600 --> 1:09:09.599 and he sent to Terry Hoe, Indiana's prison. 1:09:10.240 --> 1:09:12.800 Those are for like previous crimes that he had not 1:09:12.920 --> 1:09:14.960 been like tried for, but he probably confessed to. 1:09:15.479 --> 1:09:18.720 Yeah, So in nineteen ninety seven there was a kidnapping 1:09:18.720 --> 1:09:23.920 and murder of Anthony Martinez of Beaumont, California, and he 1:09:24.040 --> 1:09:28.240 confessed to it. And then in nineteen ninety six he 1:09:28.600 --> 1:09:32.400 murdered two girls in Seattle, Washington that he's confessed to 1:09:32.479 --> 1:09:34.120 but wasn't like convicted of. 1:09:35.000 --> 1:09:39.639 It's weird. He's really creepy, looking too, very creepy. 1:09:39.720 --> 1:09:42.599 He looks like what you would think of creep looks 1:09:42.680 --> 1:09:45.240 like and like who to protect your children from. 1:09:46.160 --> 1:09:48.920 And then this is just like a little fact. 1:09:49.160 --> 1:09:53.760 But the jurors were actually offered counseling after the case 1:09:53.800 --> 1:09:57.800 because the evidence was so fucked up. Fuck really, Yeah, 1:09:57.840 --> 1:10:00.880 and there was video evidence of stuff, like he videotaped 1:10:00.960 --> 1:10:04.800 the oh my stuff and so they had to watch it, 1:10:04.880 --> 1:10:08.599 and so a lot of the jurors needed help with 1:10:08.680 --> 1:10:10.080 their mental stability. 1:10:10.560 --> 1:10:12.400 It's so crazy that this happened in two thousand and 1:10:12.439 --> 1:10:15.360 five because it just feels like a nineteen seventies or 1:10:15.360 --> 1:10:18.960 eighties kidnapping or something just that he got away. There 1:10:19.000 --> 1:10:21.519 was like no evidence like cell phone stuff, you know, 1:10:21.640 --> 1:10:25.519 Like it just feels like a very old school type 1:10:25.520 --> 1:10:27.400 of horrific serial killer crime. 1:10:27.479 --> 1:10:30.000 And then in a new school way, but like the 1:10:30.040 --> 1:10:33.160 way these crimes were connected that led authorities to connect 1:10:33.200 --> 1:10:38.759 to previous crimes was bloggers, Like bloggers found similarities between 1:10:38.840 --> 1:10:43.400 other crimes at these times, and like it is like 1:10:43.479 --> 1:10:48.840 what are cops for that? Bloggers, waitresses, like all of 1:10:48.880 --> 1:10:51.200 these random people are doing your work. 1:10:52.280 --> 1:10:55.240 But then if you watch like the Cecil Hotel documentary, 1:10:55.280 --> 1:10:57.439 you're like, sometimes bloggers are fucking stupid and they get 1:10:57.439 --> 1:11:00.200 the wrong person and ruin their life. So like, I 1:11:00.200 --> 1:11:02.760 do think bloggers can be good, but they can be bad. 1:11:02.800 --> 1:11:05.600 To watch that one yet, so yeah, this is just 1:11:06.280 --> 1:11:10.280 the rundown. He is dead and wishing all the best 1:11:10.320 --> 1:11:11.200 to Shasta. 1:11:11.720 --> 1:11:13.960 It's almost not fair that he died like so early. 1:11:14.040 --> 1:11:15.880 He could have I would have liked him and Jil 1:11:15.920 --> 1:11:20.240 for like another thirty years. And she's probably god like 1:11:20.280 --> 1:11:23.360 in her twenties now, huh, poor Shasta. 1:11:23.720 --> 1:11:28.840 All right, well, I hope she's moving on with hope 1:11:28.880 --> 1:11:29.320 and love. 1:11:29.680 --> 1:11:32.439 This episode comes out today is May eighteenth, and this 1:11:32.560 --> 1:11:35.639 crime happened May fifteenth, two thousand and five, So that's 1:11:35.680 --> 1:11:39.160 the sixteen year anniversary of her Famili's her first three 1:11:39.160 --> 1:11:40.040 families death. 1:11:41.200 --> 1:11:46.920 Jeez, another tough one. What am we gonna get a 1:11:46.920 --> 1:11:47.519 fun murder? 1:11:47.560 --> 1:11:47.920 Lisa? 1:11:48.400 --> 1:11:51.000 Well, we got one person mad about the microchips? Did 1:11:51.000 --> 1:11:52.120 you see that message? 1:11:52.880 --> 1:11:55.599 She goes, I'm very disappointed you guys didn't cover a crime. 1:11:55.640 --> 1:11:57.760 I just needed to let you know that, oh, one person. 1:11:57.800 --> 1:11:58.639 I didn't even see that. 1:11:59.000 --> 1:12:00.920 I was just gonna say, if you want to end 1:12:00.920 --> 1:12:03.160 this episode on a fun note, you can mention that 1:12:03.320 --> 1:12:05.599 after the episode, Sugar, you said you had never heard 1:12:05.640 --> 1:12:08.479 the name Vance in real life, and this story, Lisa, 1:12:08.840 --> 1:12:10.599 there was an older brother named Vance. 1:12:11.200 --> 1:12:13.360 Oh wow, Okay, that is a fun ending. 1:12:13.640 --> 1:12:15.720 Vance and I hope the Vans, I hope, yeah, I 1:12:15.720 --> 1:12:17.439 hope the boys are good. 1:12:17.479 --> 1:12:19.800 And you know, she did get to be with her dad. 1:12:21.560 --> 1:12:22.439 But yeah, it's rough. 1:12:22.560 --> 1:12:25.479 Yeah, like she at least has some surviving family and 1:12:25.520 --> 1:12:27.360 hopefully like she has her brothers. 1:12:27.800 --> 1:12:28.599 It's just scary. 1:12:29.240 --> 1:12:31.839 I mean not to ruin the movie The Strangers for everyone, 1:12:31.840 --> 1:12:34.240 but that horror movie is really scary because it was 1:12:34.439 --> 1:12:40.400 just like random. Yeah, the randomness of it is scary. 1:12:40.520 --> 1:12:42.400 Like that's some killer from Minnesota. 1:12:42.520 --> 1:12:45.360 Yeah, can escape from court. 1:12:45.439 --> 1:12:47.800 And drive to Idah see your kid and be like 1:12:47.840 --> 1:12:49.560 I'm going to kill you guys two days from that. 1:12:49.800 --> 1:12:54.360 Like it is haunting, Yeah, and I think that's what 1:12:54.439 --> 1:12:58.720 they try to you know. Also highlight in the episode 1:12:58.760 --> 1:13:01.280 is that everybody that got Toano killed was a stranger. 1:13:01.320 --> 1:13:04.200 It wasn't like these were personal people he got close to. 1:13:04.320 --> 1:13:05.960 He just like stalked and hunted people. 1:13:06.040 --> 1:13:06.240 You know. 1:13:06.320 --> 1:13:13.040 It's really fucking scary. But let's take a quick moment 1:13:13.280 --> 1:13:17.840 and hear from our very special guests. 1:13:22.960 --> 1:13:26.800 I am so excited for this guest it truly. I 1:13:26.800 --> 1:13:29.200 think when I found out, I jumped up and down. 1:13:31.240 --> 1:13:32.479 Huge. Guess guys. 1:13:32.720 --> 1:13:36.439 He is a Golden Globe and Tony Award nominee. He 1:13:37.240 --> 1:13:40.000 famously played Richie Vallens in La Bamba, one of my 1:13:40.040 --> 1:13:44.440 formative movies as a child. He's currently playing Lieutenant Gilroyo 1:13:44.520 --> 1:13:47.960 on Fox's Prodigal Son, and you, if you did your homework, 1:13:48.439 --> 1:13:51.400 sadly recognize him as Victor Paul Gaetano. Guys, check out 1:13:51.439 --> 1:13:54.080 our interview with the one and only lou Diamond Phillips. 1:13:54.960 --> 1:13:57.840 We are so excited, and we need to tell you. 1:13:57.880 --> 1:14:00.000 All of our friends that we told that we're interviewing 1:14:00.120 --> 1:14:09.160 you lost their fucking minds. Like people were like, our 1:14:09.200 --> 1:14:11.559 friend who's Filipino, was like, he is the King of 1:14:11.600 --> 1:14:15.280 the Philippines. And then two of our friends are like, 1:14:15.320 --> 1:14:19.120 we watched Little Bamba every single day on HBO for years. 1:14:19.160 --> 1:14:22.800 Like everyone was like, was so excited, and so are we, 1:14:22.880 --> 1:14:24.440 So we're yeah, we're pops. 1:14:24.880 --> 1:14:27.400 So all my interviews yesterday were about the fact that 1:14:27.760 --> 1:14:30.639 Fathom was putting Lebamba back in the movie theaters. 1:14:31.160 --> 1:14:33.440 Oh ridiculous. 1:14:34.400 --> 1:14:37.200 So so yeah, I did a bunch of interviews yesterday 1:14:37.200 --> 1:14:40.360 with you know, writer director Louis Valdez. That man, that 1:14:40.479 --> 1:14:43.839 was That was a lovely little trip down memory lane. 1:14:44.000 --> 1:14:45.439 I mean that's where I first knew you. 1:14:45.640 --> 1:14:47.080 That movie came out when I was a kid, and 1:14:47.120 --> 1:14:49.400 I loved it so much, So We're so honored to 1:14:49.439 --> 1:14:52.559 talk to you. And this episode is classic of SVU. 1:14:53.160 --> 1:14:54.880 I know it was a long time ago. No worries 1:14:54.920 --> 1:14:57.680 if you forget some stuff from you know, from the 1:14:58.200 --> 1:14:59.599 shooting time of Fault. 1:14:59.760 --> 1:15:02.639 The show runner Neil Bear, when we asked his favorite 1:15:02.720 --> 1:15:05.679 and or most haunting episodes, he said, this one. 1:15:06.439 --> 1:15:09.680 Yeah, it's you know, it's it's pretty intense. 1:15:10.360 --> 1:15:14.000 I mean, that's a lot for SVU, you know. 1:15:14.439 --> 1:15:17.799 I know, one of my favorite stories about that particular 1:15:17.840 --> 1:15:21.519 episode was was I said, yes, Sight Unseen. 1:15:22.439 --> 1:15:24.840 I didn't even read the script because I'm a fan 1:15:24.840 --> 1:15:25.200 of the show. 1:15:25.240 --> 1:15:27.000 I've been a fan of the show, you know, since 1:15:27.040 --> 1:15:33.120 its inception. I've also known Marishka Man since the late eighties. 1:15:33.560 --> 1:15:34.799 She did a tiny, little. 1:15:34.600 --> 1:15:37.280 Independent film that a lot of my friends were involved with, 1:15:37.360 --> 1:15:39.840 so you know, I met her at the screening of 1:15:39.880 --> 1:15:41.840 that way back in the day. 1:15:42.400 --> 1:15:44.400 So we kind of ran in the same circles for 1:15:44.439 --> 1:15:45.000 a long time. 1:15:45.360 --> 1:15:47.280 So it came to me and it's like, yes, one 1:15:47.320 --> 1:15:49.280 hundred percent, I will do this whatever, I don't care. 1:15:49.479 --> 1:15:51.240 And so you're the bad guy. I said, well, come on, 1:15:51.280 --> 1:15:52.479 I figure, you know. 1:15:53.479 --> 1:15:57.760 And my daughter Grace was eight nine at the time, 1:15:57.920 --> 1:16:01.639 or whatever, and I remember I said, I listened, Dad's 1:16:01.640 --> 1:16:03.439 got to go, you know, to New York City next 1:16:03.479 --> 1:16:06.760 week to do this show. And she said, what show 1:16:06.760 --> 1:16:08.559 are you doing? I said, well, I'm doing STU. 1:16:08.640 --> 1:16:10.040 She can I watch it? 1:16:11.520 --> 1:16:12.200 I don't think so. 1:16:13.400 --> 1:16:17.639 We didn't let her watch SVU anyway, and it was like, no, no, 1:16:17.680 --> 1:16:21.280 you can't. You can't watch this episode, Grace. Are you 1:16:21.320 --> 1:16:24.280 the bad guy? And I'm like, yeah, I'm the bad guy. 1:16:24.360 --> 1:16:28.000 She goes, do you kill people? I said, yes, I 1:16:28.080 --> 1:16:32.880 kill people. I've seen you kill people. I said, not 1:16:33.040 --> 1:16:36.920 like this, so yeah, you. 1:16:36.880 --> 1:16:39.120 Know, serial killer, pedophile. That's that's a good way to 1:16:39.160 --> 1:16:40.120 have on the old resume. 1:16:40.560 --> 1:16:44.200 Seriously, man, well what I was going to say is 1:16:44.240 --> 1:16:45.960 so interesting about you. I don't know if you can 1:16:45.960 --> 1:16:48.920 speak to this, but like, you've played Richard Ramirez, You've 1:16:48.960 --> 1:16:52.439 played this terrible victor Paul Gaetano, the serial killer in 1:16:52.479 --> 1:16:54.400 this episode, but then in a lot of other stuff 1:16:54.400 --> 1:16:56.240 you play the cop, you play the good guy, And 1:16:56.280 --> 1:16:58.160 I feel like a lot of actors get pigeonholed into 1:16:58.160 --> 1:17:00.000 one or the other, and you kind of seamlessly can 1:17:00.120 --> 1:17:02.800 be like evil or the hero. Like, what do you 1:17:02.880 --> 1:17:06.280 think that is about you? 1:17:07.400 --> 1:17:09.840 They don't care that it's because you're talented. 1:17:11.040 --> 1:17:11.600 That's a good an. 1:17:12.360 --> 1:17:14.880 There's plenty of talented people that always play the cop 1:17:15.040 --> 1:17:16.640 or always play the murderer, you know. 1:17:17.040 --> 1:17:20.240 Yeah, yeah, no, it's true. I've been fortunate. I mean, 1:17:20.280 --> 1:17:22.160 you know, I literally I have to go back to 1:17:23.680 --> 1:17:27.320 theater training, you know, and not just the theater training, 1:17:27.360 --> 1:17:31.559 but the appetite that theater training gave me for roles. 1:17:32.280 --> 1:17:35.320 Where I from a very early age. 1:17:35.080 --> 1:17:36.880 I thought I don't want to play just one thing, 1:17:37.200 --> 1:17:38.400 you know, and. 1:17:38.520 --> 1:17:41.720 There are many many actors who are famous for doing 1:17:41.720 --> 1:17:43.479 one thing and they're very very good at it. 1:17:43.560 --> 1:17:46.120 You know, that's what they do, that's their brand. And 1:17:46.160 --> 1:17:48.600 you know, I mean not not to mench anybody contemporary, 1:17:48.640 --> 1:17:50.680 but you know, you're John Wayne, Japlin Eastwood's. 1:17:50.840 --> 1:17:55.120 You know, they are personalities, they're iconic, and people love 1:17:55.120 --> 1:17:56.920 them so much that they don't want to get out 1:17:56.960 --> 1:18:00.280 of that lane. For me, I always consider myself a 1:18:00.360 --> 1:18:03.400 character actor. Uh. And thank goodness being you know that 1:18:03.400 --> 1:18:05.320 that translated into being the character lead. 1:18:05.760 --> 1:18:07.120 But it meant that I could do you know, a 1:18:07.160 --> 1:18:10.040 lot of different kinds of roles. Uh. And you know, 1:18:10.200 --> 1:18:11.479 in college, I was you. 1:18:11.479 --> 1:18:14.880 Know, doing everything from from Mamick to Shakespeare to Moliere 1:18:14.920 --> 1:18:19.080 to improv comedy and hopefully honing talent and. 1:18:19.040 --> 1:18:19.720 All of it, you know. 1:18:19.960 --> 1:18:22.680 So so that's why when you look at my, you know, 1:18:23.360 --> 1:18:24.240 body of work. 1:18:24.080 --> 1:18:29.920 You just go what or Western comedy drama and you. 1:18:29.880 --> 1:18:38.000 Knowsles you know that takes a very special kind of talent. 1:18:38.479 --> 1:18:43.120 Uh And so you know, I just enjoyed the genre 1:18:43.200 --> 1:18:47.200 of employment more than anything else. Uh So yeah, But 1:18:47.240 --> 1:18:51.880 I mean it's because I love characters. I love creating characters, 1:18:51.880 --> 1:18:56.080 and I and I you know, apply a few different rules, 1:18:56.120 --> 1:18:59.720 you know. I mean, you cannot judge your character, and 1:19:00.040 --> 1:19:02.599 you know, and especially in a situation like this, if 1:19:02.640 --> 1:19:05.000 you hold that character at arms distance, if you're trying 1:19:05.040 --> 1:19:07.560 to tell the audience constantly, if you're apologizing to the 1:19:07.600 --> 1:19:12.480 audience going this isn't me, I'm just I'm acting, then 1:19:12.520 --> 1:19:14.639 you lessen the impact on them. It's not fair. It's 1:19:14.640 --> 1:19:16.000 not fair to the character, it's not fair. 1:19:15.880 --> 1:19:16.400 To the audience. 1:19:16.720 --> 1:19:18.720 So you know, when you take a job like this, 1:19:18.840 --> 1:19:20.960 it is your job to scare the shit out of people. 1:19:21.640 --> 1:19:23.679 You have to be brutal. 1:19:24.439 --> 1:19:27.720 And what's interesting, because you mentioned this, I literally look 1:19:27.760 --> 1:19:33.160 at Gatano as the amused Boosch to Richard Ramirez, although 1:19:33.160 --> 1:19:34.200 I didn't know it at the time. 1:19:34.520 --> 1:19:35.600 Oh interesting. 1:19:36.240 --> 1:19:41.000 And what was I think really informative for me and 1:19:41.040 --> 1:19:46.639 that I carried from this particular experience was was Paul 1:19:46.720 --> 1:19:53.120 mccrane's direction. And it's like, make this guy boring, killing 1:19:53.160 --> 1:19:55.599 people and draining a child's blood and all of that 1:19:55.960 --> 1:20:01.080 is so mundane to you. And in that normalcy, in 1:20:01.280 --> 1:20:06.400 that apparent I don't know, homogenization of a killer mind, 1:20:06.520 --> 1:20:10.200 you know, that's what's frightening. And that the little video 1:20:10.760 --> 1:20:12.600 clip that we did, you know, where he's describing how 1:20:12.680 --> 1:20:15.920 much yeah, came out of the body. He went, no, no, 1:20:16.160 --> 1:20:20.479 less less bland, bland, And it was amazing, you know, 1:20:20.640 --> 1:20:22.920 it was amazing. It was. And when I ended up 1:20:22.920 --> 1:20:27.679 doing the research for Richard Ramirez and watching him talk 1:20:27.720 --> 1:20:29.960 about being a Satan worshiper. 1:20:29.439 --> 1:20:31.400 And all this other stuff, you know, he said, you know, 1:20:31.479 --> 1:20:32.920 this is just so boring. 1:20:32.960 --> 1:20:34.880 You know, he's just talking about it like he's talking 1:20:34.920 --> 1:20:36.719 about the weather, you know, and it's. 1:20:36.520 --> 1:20:38.120 Just like wow. 1:20:38.240 --> 1:20:40.920 And that's chilling more than growling and more than streaming 1:20:40.920 --> 1:20:43.960 and yelling. It's that that the fact that that that 1:20:44.120 --> 1:20:46.679 mind is already there that they don't have to flip 1:20:46.680 --> 1:20:47.040 the switch. 1:20:47.080 --> 1:20:47.840 This is where they live. 1:20:48.479 --> 1:20:51.840 And were you able to find empathy and understanding with 1:20:51.880 --> 1:20:54.880 that character to play him or that's not necessary because 1:20:54.880 --> 1:20:56.920 you said you have to connect with them, like do 1:20:57.000 --> 1:20:59.960 you have to trick yourself into liking him? 1:21:00.160 --> 1:21:01.519 Or you can hate him and play him. 1:21:01.560 --> 1:21:04.320 I can hate him. I can absolutely hate him. I mean, 1:21:04.439 --> 1:21:05.400 you know, being being the. 1:21:05.320 --> 1:21:08.559 Father of four daughters somebody like that. I'm sorry, I 1:21:08.600 --> 1:21:11.880 have very little sympathy. Uh you know, I mean because 1:21:11.960 --> 1:21:15.200 because they ceased to become human, you know. 1:21:15.840 --> 1:21:17.400 Uh, And there wasn't a big backstory. 1:21:18.160 --> 1:21:21.840 Having said that, though, in doing the research for Richard Ramirez, 1:21:22.200 --> 1:21:24.639 I go, how else could he have turned out? 1:21:25.439 --> 1:21:28.160 How else could he have turned out? The book by 1:21:28.200 --> 1:21:29.160 Philip Cakudo, The. 1:21:29.200 --> 1:21:34.120 Nightstalker is brilliant and so you know, illuminative of you know, 1:21:34.560 --> 1:21:38.080 how he was built from a very very early age 1:21:38.240 --> 1:21:44.040 and that includes the possibility of chemical alteration because both 1:21:44.080 --> 1:21:46.960 his parents worked in a boot factory where they were 1:21:47.000 --> 1:21:49.120 dealing with toxic materials day in. 1:21:49.080 --> 1:21:50.559 And day out for hours at a time. 1:21:51.080 --> 1:21:53.879 So you know, that's that's one that he he suffered 1:21:53.920 --> 1:21:57.280 a head injury at a very early age, and then 1:21:57.560 --> 1:22:00.360 all the sociological influences on him, and you know from 1:22:00.360 --> 1:22:01.920 an uncle who came back in Vietnam and it was 1:22:01.920 --> 1:22:09.280 an absolute monster himself. Yeah, and sexualized photographs, souvenirs that 1:22:09.320 --> 1:22:13.000 he took, and so therefore once again taking the humanity 1:22:13.080 --> 1:22:19.280 out of that, and you know, and just just this sad, 1:22:19.640 --> 1:22:23.280 sad state of wanting to be somebody, wanting to be powerful, 1:22:23.320 --> 1:22:26.680 being so empty inside that the only way you know, 1:22:26.720 --> 1:22:29.720 you could do that was was to exert power and 1:22:29.800 --> 1:22:31.960 violence over someone helpless. 1:22:32.240 --> 1:22:36.599 You know, did you film at the bus station? How 1:22:36.720 --> 1:22:38.680 was it filming with so many people? And were those 1:22:38.720 --> 1:22:40.840 extras or were they really people? At the bus station? 1:22:43.479 --> 1:22:44.679 It was just so crowded. 1:22:44.760 --> 1:22:46.760 It's like a huge I mean, you're weaving through a 1:22:46.800 --> 1:22:48.800 million crowds and like it's really. 1:22:48.800 --> 1:22:51.280 Yeah, no, it's it's it's really really cool. 1:22:51.280 --> 1:22:52.920 And you know, I mean, and this is the advantage 1:22:52.920 --> 1:22:55.160 of being on a hit show is they have a budget, 1:22:55.280 --> 1:22:58.880 you know, so they you know, uh, And at the 1:22:58.960 --> 1:23:01.320 time I had I hadn't worked in New York since 1:23:01.360 --> 1:23:04.680 I've done you know, The King and I but I 1:23:04.720 --> 1:23:07.320 have this love of New York and and and filming in. 1:23:07.280 --> 1:23:08.760 New York, like what I'm going through right now on 1:23:08.800 --> 1:23:11.680 Fludigal Sonny. You just look at and yeah, you know, 1:23:11.800 --> 1:23:12.880 this is this is it. 1:23:13.520 --> 1:23:17.320 And here we are in this bus station and they 1:23:17.360 --> 1:23:19.280 can close off a certain area and we had a 1:23:19.439 --> 1:23:24.320 number a number of background artists, but within those background artists, 1:23:24.360 --> 1:23:27.800 we had quite a few stunt performers, so that you 1:23:27.840 --> 1:23:30.559 could run over somebody or knocking anybody and if you did, 1:23:30.600 --> 1:23:32.280 it wasn't a big deal because they're expecting it. 1:23:32.520 --> 1:23:32.920 Right. 1:23:33.120 --> 1:23:35.479 Oh, I didn't even think about that, because yeah, there's 1:23:35.479 --> 1:23:38.240 a lot of places where when you run, you're knocking 1:23:38.280 --> 1:23:39.120 people out of the way. 1:23:39.439 --> 1:23:41.960 Maloney's like out of the way to all these civilians. 1:23:42.000 --> 1:23:43.960 I didn't realize that those would be stunt people because 1:23:43.960 --> 1:23:44.639 they've got a like. 1:23:44.680 --> 1:23:47.200 Yeah, they have to be because next next thing, you know, 1:23:47.320 --> 1:23:49.040 the you know, the background artists bump. 1:23:49.439 --> 1:23:51.320 You know, I got paid a little bit more. 1:23:53.439 --> 1:23:55.360 So those are you know, those are those are definitely 1:23:55.439 --> 1:23:57.639 part of the film crew. 1:23:57.920 --> 1:24:00.840 But beyond that, they can't shut down the entire area, 1:24:01.080 --> 1:24:02.439 and so you know, it's it's. 1:24:02.280 --> 1:24:05.320 Always a little fun to, uh, you know, watch a 1:24:05.320 --> 1:24:07.519 big crowd scene in someplace like Times Square because you 1:24:07.520 --> 1:24:09.839 can look in the background and say, okay, civilians, civilians, 1:24:09.840 --> 1:24:11.280 civilian because they're staring at the. 1:24:11.200 --> 1:24:14.000 Camera watching things go on. 1:24:14.080 --> 1:24:18.320 Right, So, so yes, there were a number of background 1:24:18.400 --> 1:24:20.200 artists and stunt performers. 1:24:20.080 --> 1:24:22.920 But you know in the deep background, those are those. 1:24:22.760 --> 1:24:24.720 Are real people going about their business and going, oh, 1:24:25.040 --> 1:24:25.840 you're shooting again. 1:24:28.840 --> 1:24:31.160 Since you have like a theater background and you've been 1:24:31.200 --> 1:24:33.519 working for so long and a fan of SVW, I 1:24:33.600 --> 1:24:35.720 was wondering if any of your friends have been on 1:24:35.800 --> 1:24:38.599 episodes or there's any episodes that stick out to you 1:24:38.640 --> 1:24:40.240 that you've seen and that you really like. 1:24:41.520 --> 1:24:46.000 Wow, because everybody's son SVU. 1:24:46.120 --> 1:24:47.960 Right, No, that's just it. I mean you go down 1:24:48.000 --> 1:24:50.720 the list of people and it's just it's just crazy, 1:24:51.320 --> 1:24:52.040 wacky good. 1:24:53.240 --> 1:24:55.200 Charlne Woodard, who you know, in the first season of 1:24:55.200 --> 1:24:57.519 Prodigal Son, played Malcolm's therapist. 1:24:58.400 --> 1:25:00.559 Speaking of theater and the and the inner of that. 1:25:01.479 --> 1:25:04.600 You know, she was ended up getting killed, But I 1:25:04.680 --> 1:25:09.360 had a lovely sort of recurring role as a sort 1:25:09.360 --> 1:25:11.680 of a street social worker, you know. 1:25:11.920 --> 1:25:15.519 And Charlene and I had done a play together ages 1:25:15.560 --> 1:25:17.599 and Ages ago at the La Joy. 1:25:17.760 --> 1:25:21.519 Yeah, Charlene Woodard, we had done The Good Person of 1:25:21.520 --> 1:25:27.320 Sasuan in a new translation by Tony Kushner, and we 1:25:28.120 --> 1:25:29.400 almost got to New York did it? 1:25:30.000 --> 1:25:31.439 Oh my god, that's Sister Peg. 1:25:31.680 --> 1:25:34.320 We literally do a segment every single week on our 1:25:34.360 --> 1:25:36.680 podcast where we say what would Sister Peg do? 1:25:36.760 --> 1:25:37.680 And we mentioned like a. 1:25:37.760 --> 1:25:40.760 Charity or like an organization because her character is so 1:25:41.160 --> 1:25:42.320 iconic on the show. 1:25:42.439 --> 1:25:45.680 Exactly, and she's amazing, she is that she is just 1:25:46.439 --> 1:25:49.559 this beautiful light, a wonderful human being. 1:25:50.720 --> 1:25:52.000 Can I we asked you a question a little bit 1:25:52.160 --> 1:25:54.559 more asked for you questions. So you got to work 1:25:54.560 --> 1:25:58.200 with these little kids, but like you're this terrifying character, 1:25:58.280 --> 1:26:00.639 so like in between takes or you like goofing around 1:26:00.680 --> 1:26:02.400 with these kids being like I'm not a bad guy, 1:26:02.479 --> 1:26:04.760 or are you like so that they. 1:26:06.000 --> 1:26:10.200 No, no, you know, it's it's interesting. You have to 1:26:10.240 --> 1:26:13.240 trust the person that you're working with. It has to 1:26:13.280 --> 1:26:18.679 be a dance. And so these kids could not have performed. Uh, 1:26:19.080 --> 1:26:21.160 they wouldn't even let me pick them up, you know, 1:26:21.240 --> 1:26:23.679 if they were afraid of me. So it's about and 1:26:23.680 --> 1:26:26.439 and and having just met them that day, you're hanging 1:26:26.520 --> 1:26:28.920 out and you're making jokes and you're talking and saying, hey, 1:26:28.960 --> 1:26:31.760 what what are you interested in and you know, and 1:26:31.840 --> 1:26:34.559 and and becoming friends because it's like, okay, so on 1:26:34.640 --> 1:26:36.599 this take, I'm gonna pick you up and I'm gonna 1:26:36.640 --> 1:26:38.400 run with you, and I'm gonna be looking really really 1:26:38.400 --> 1:26:41.759 really mean, but I'm just acting, you know. So it's 1:26:41.800 --> 1:26:45.360 it's you know, it's it's necessary to to engender that 1:26:45.520 --> 1:26:48.960 level of trust because otherwise they're going to be stiff 1:26:49.000 --> 1:26:50.640 as a board and not and not be able to 1:26:50.640 --> 1:26:51.400 actually act with you. 1:26:52.040 --> 1:26:54.760 And how was it stabbing Marishka in the. 1:26:56.479 --> 1:26:56.639 Well? 1:26:56.680 --> 1:27:02.200 The other the other amazing detail to to the filming, 1:27:02.240 --> 1:27:03.680 the behind the scenes stuff, as you know, if you 1:27:03.720 --> 1:27:05.280 look at it closely, I. 1:27:05.200 --> 1:27:06.280 Mean, Risk is pregnant. 1:27:07.600 --> 1:27:12.720 She's shooting this and she's yeah, so they're they're you know, 1:27:13.320 --> 1:27:16.840 they're they're shooting her really tight and from behind and 1:27:16.880 --> 1:27:20.200 you know, the very very few profiles man, because they 1:27:20.240 --> 1:27:22.320 can't reveal that she's actually pregnant. 1:27:22.360 --> 1:27:24.840 And so for me, I'm like, oh, that one more 1:27:24.920 --> 1:27:27.360 twist here. I got to be so careful because. 1:27:27.120 --> 1:27:32.360 She's you know, so it's like, uh, it was very 1:27:32.439 --> 1:27:36.320 funny and she was such a sweetheart man, so game, 1:27:36.720 --> 1:27:39.040 so you know, just and then you know, I got 1:27:39.040 --> 1:27:41.080 to hold a gun to to Maloney's head. 1:27:41.280 --> 1:27:42.920 You know, you really have the dream role. 1:27:42.960 --> 1:27:44.760 I mean, you got to assault both of the main 1:27:44.960 --> 1:27:46.479 characters and then. 1:27:46.360 --> 1:27:48.479 Get shot in the head myself. So it's like a 1:27:48.560 --> 1:27:51.800 dream come true. So h and then you know, you 1:27:51.880 --> 1:27:52.599 just do the whole drill. 1:27:52.640 --> 1:27:55.640 But once again, it's it's the uh, the trust, you know, 1:27:55.680 --> 1:27:59.960 and and Musky and Maloney could not do. 1:28:00.160 --> 1:28:04.559 Those roles without without being you know, incredibly game for 1:28:04.560 --> 1:28:06.000 for right that comes along. 1:28:06.360 --> 1:28:09.679 And so I mean I'm literally pressing this gun into 1:28:09.760 --> 1:28:11.640 Chris's you know, temple and say no. 1:28:11.680 --> 1:28:15.000 Man, go ahead, good good, good dimple in here. 1:28:15.240 --> 1:28:17.920 You know, it's like, okay, you know, if you're cool 1:28:17.920 --> 1:28:19.240 with it, you know, I'll bring it. 1:28:20.000 --> 1:28:21.840 I don't have an SV related, but I was just 1:28:21.960 --> 1:28:25.400 going to ask about what you're writing and working on now. 1:28:25.479 --> 1:28:27.040 Ah yay, thank you. 1:28:28.000 --> 1:28:29.960 Uh And and you know, I mean speaking of well, 1:28:30.000 --> 1:28:32.679 not speaking of but you know, the pandemic actually having 1:28:32.680 --> 1:28:33.519 a silver lining. 1:28:34.120 --> 1:28:37.280 I had been working on a novel for ten years. 1:28:37.840 --> 1:28:40.000 When my wife and I first got together. 1:28:40.680 --> 1:28:42.240 She was reading a lot of my writing, you know, 1:28:42.240 --> 1:28:44.880 and I've written screenplays and plays and that sort of thing. 1:28:45.360 --> 1:28:49.360 And she is an amazing artist, and she showed me 1:28:49.400 --> 1:28:53.040 these drawings that were supposed to be for a graphic 1:28:53.120 --> 1:28:57.320 novel that were inspired from Hans Christian Anderson's The Tinderbox Uh. 1:28:57.360 --> 1:28:59.920 And so I looked at these and, oh my god, 1:29:00.080 --> 1:29:05.360 this is like this post apocalyptic Kurosawa infused fairytale a 1:29:05.360 --> 1:29:07.160 little like Star Wars, and I thought this would. 1:29:06.960 --> 1:29:08.160 Make a great movie. Let's do this. 1:29:08.600 --> 1:29:10.880 And she loved the idea too, so I wrote the screenplay. 1:29:12.560 --> 1:29:14.840 When we read the screenplay, we realized that nobody was 1:29:14.840 --> 1:29:17.320 going to give us millions and millions of dollars to 1:29:17.400 --> 1:29:20.080 make this movie. So talk to my manager about it. 1:29:20.120 --> 1:29:22.599 He loved the idea, he says, well, write the novel, you. 1:29:22.560 --> 1:29:24.559 Know, but my day job kept getting in the way, 1:29:24.760 --> 1:29:26.920 and so it took about. 1:29:26.640 --> 1:29:29.960 Ten years and then it stole like the November before 1:29:30.040 --> 1:29:34.000 the pandemic hit. The plug got pulled on Prodigal Son 1:29:34.040 --> 1:29:36.160 in March, and so I was able to do the 1:29:36.200 --> 1:29:39.040 final edits in the agent's notes and publisher's notes and 1:29:39.160 --> 1:29:40.240 you know, editor's. 1:29:39.920 --> 1:29:43.120 Notes while I was sitting at home, which was great. 1:29:43.439 --> 1:29:47.679 And The Tinderbox Soldier of Indira just got released last 1:29:47.840 --> 1:29:52.320 last November, and it has thirty illustrations from my wife, Yvonne, 1:29:52.760 --> 1:29:55.080 which are sort of amazing. But it's funny. As I 1:29:55.080 --> 1:29:57.320 was writing the novels, she was like, I don't draw 1:29:57.479 --> 1:30:01.160 sci fi. Why, you know, a movie when she's said 1:30:01.160 --> 1:30:02.880 in a space she was cool with it, but as 1:30:02.920 --> 1:30:04.280 a novel she's like, I don't. 1:30:04.120 --> 1:30:08.559 Draw site, I don't space ship, I don't draw you know. 1:30:09.040 --> 1:30:11.240 But she got out of her comfort zone and she 1:30:11.240 --> 1:30:15.840 she really Uh, the illustrations are beautiful because they're they're 1:30:15.880 --> 1:30:20.360 sort of graphic novel meets German woodcut, which is her background, 1:30:20.920 --> 1:30:25.200 uh meets you know, a retro steampunk sci fi, you know, 1:30:25.320 --> 1:30:26.559 and so they're really really cool. 1:30:30.240 --> 1:30:31.000 Holy shit. 1:30:31.160 --> 1:30:34.400 Lou Diamond Phillips a multifaceted man. I mean, I can't 1:30:34.400 --> 1:30:39.320 believe it. Yeah, actor writer sing Whols is adopted by 1:30:39.360 --> 1:30:40.440 different races. 1:30:40.840 --> 1:30:42.920 I know, I don't know if we we didn't even 1:30:42.960 --> 1:30:45.799 talk about this with him, but he's been officially accepted 1:30:45.800 --> 1:30:49.000 into like an indigenous tribe's he's been officially recognized by 1:30:49.000 --> 1:30:53.160 like the Latino community, like he is literally he's Filipino. 1:30:52.680 --> 1:30:55.360 But he's a man of all of all people. Everyone 1:30:55.400 --> 1:30:59.519 wants him in their group. Yeah, the king and I 1:30:59.520 --> 1:31:02.640 mean he's he's attractive, he's writing books. It seems you know, 1:31:02.720 --> 1:31:08.120 he seems like an attentive father. Yeah, he's awesome. But 1:31:08.200 --> 1:31:11.360 let's jump into our post mortem. What did we learn 1:31:11.439 --> 1:31:13.400 from this horrible episode? 1:31:13.600 --> 1:31:15.920 And I learned a lesson from him? You know. 1:31:16.040 --> 1:31:18.360 What I learned from him is like, like you take 1:31:18.400 --> 1:31:21.520 every job type of thing you like, expand your horizons, 1:31:21.560 --> 1:31:24.360 you play different types of characters and skills, and like, 1:31:24.720 --> 1:31:27.719 I just enjoyed the way he talked about his career 1:31:27.760 --> 1:31:30.040 in life and how you have to just like go 1:31:30.080 --> 1:31:32.040 along for the ride and then you can last thirty 1:31:32.080 --> 1:31:33.599 forty years having a good time. 1:31:34.040 --> 1:31:37.000 And I, you know, I enjoy hearing inspirational stories. 1:31:36.640 --> 1:31:39.760 Like that because sometimes you audition for things for years 1:31:39.760 --> 1:31:41.000 and you just don't get stuff. 1:31:41.000 --> 1:31:42.920 So it's like nice to hear someone be like, yeah, 1:31:42.960 --> 1:31:44.639 you just do stuff right. 1:31:44.880 --> 1:31:46.720 And if you don't do that, you go direct to 1:31:46.760 --> 1:31:48.439 play or you go act there, or you go on 1:31:48.680 --> 1:31:50.479 the road, I don't know where. You get adopted by 1:31:50.520 --> 1:31:54.960 the Cherokees, like it's wild. But I also what I 1:31:55.040 --> 1:31:57.439 learned from the episode is like you gotta go to therapy, 1:31:57.520 --> 1:31:58.719 stable or go to therapy. 1:31:58.760 --> 1:32:00.479 How many more times can you talk about this. 1:32:00.920 --> 1:32:03.559 Yeah, you can't be in a relationship, a close work 1:32:03.640 --> 1:32:07.240 relationship and a romantic relationship, any kind of relationship with 1:32:07.320 --> 1:32:11.400 the kind of anger and weird crap that he carries 1:32:11.439 --> 1:32:14.720 around with him. You got to go to therapy. And 1:32:14.760 --> 1:32:17.920 you know what, Huang is busy. Huang cannot be your therapist. 1:32:19.120 --> 1:32:25.920 He is on FBI profiler and psychiatrys, psychologist whatever. 1:32:26.800 --> 1:32:28.000 Too busy. 1:32:28.000 --> 1:32:31.080 So if you're helping the police in an undercover investigation, 1:32:31.320 --> 1:32:32.000 play it cool. 1:32:32.280 --> 1:32:35.160 I will never forgive that Western Union man. I think 1:32:35.200 --> 1:32:39.240 he's responsible for that child's death. Keep your eyes peeled, 1:32:39.280 --> 1:32:41.719 like that waitress saved Shasta Grony's life. 1:32:41.800 --> 1:32:44.839 Like, keep your eyes peeled. If you see amber alerts, look. 1:32:44.680 --> 1:32:49.080 At them and like because like, honestly, that woman, her 1:32:49.320 --> 1:32:51.559 egle eye is like the reason that girl is alive 1:32:51.560 --> 1:32:53.839 and the reason that guy was arrested. 1:32:54.439 --> 1:32:54.679 Yeah. 1:32:54.720 --> 1:32:57.719 Also, if you are in charge of the criminal justice system, 1:32:57.840 --> 1:33:00.800 let's not let people skip down on Bay. Like, I 1:33:00.840 --> 1:33:04.479 don't know if someone's just like a full on killer, like, 1:33:04.800 --> 1:33:08.320 keep them in jail. I don't understand. Yeah, I just 1:33:08.439 --> 1:33:11.880 don't understand the veil system when it comes to white 1:33:11.920 --> 1:33:12.519 men who kill. 1:33:13.240 --> 1:33:15.519 But oh yeah, because the real life man was white. 1:33:15.600 --> 1:33:17.800 Right. Yeah, I learned if an actress is pregnant, you 1:33:17.800 --> 1:33:20.880 can just zoom it on their face and not show 1:33:20.920 --> 1:33:22.840 their body ever in an episode. 1:33:23.840 --> 1:33:24.120 Yeah. 1:33:24.200 --> 1:33:26.600 I mean most people that Karen and I meet on 1:33:26.680 --> 1:33:29.360 our zooms have no idea Kara is about to pop. 1:33:29.680 --> 1:33:32.840 Yeah, just keep it tight, shoulders up, baby. Yeah, it's 1:33:32.920 --> 1:33:33.800 just also cool. 1:33:33.800 --> 1:33:36.800 It's also like if you watch TV and you're like, 1:33:36.840 --> 1:33:39.320 oh no, why is that actor not there anymore? It's 1:33:39.400 --> 1:33:42.160 like it was a contract issue or they had a baby. 1:33:42.280 --> 1:33:46.160 You know, Like it is wild that there's just things 1:33:46.200 --> 1:33:48.639 outside of the story that push the story. 1:33:49.000 --> 1:33:50.960 Yeah, it's kind of cool. 1:33:51.240 --> 1:33:54.840 If you're in a standoff, I don't also like give up, 1:33:55.320 --> 1:33:56.000 a sharp. 1:33:55.760 --> 1:33:57.639 Shooter will shoot you, you know what I mean? 1:33:57.760 --> 1:34:00.880 Like these people holding people hostage and the thing I 1:34:00.920 --> 1:34:02.880 know they're not doing well mentally, but like. 1:34:03.000 --> 1:34:04.320 You're gonna get shot. 1:34:04.680 --> 1:34:08.360 Yeah, you're not surviving holding two police officers hostage, you 1:34:08.400 --> 1:34:11.760 know what I mean? Like, right, I just don't understand. 1:34:11.880 --> 1:34:15.720 Stop taking people hostage. That's my tip of the day. 1:34:16.120 --> 1:34:17.760 It's not worth it. Why do you want to go 1:34:17.800 --> 1:34:19.680 to jail? Stop holding people hostage? 1:34:20.320 --> 1:34:23.960 Don't do it. That's that's a lot of lessons. That's 1:34:23.960 --> 1:34:26.160 pretty good lot of lessons, a lot of lessons for today. 1:34:26.720 --> 1:34:31.040 Now let's jump into our what would Sister Peg do segment? 1:34:31.680 --> 1:34:33.920 This is where you guys know, where we kind of 1:34:33.960 --> 1:34:36.840 direct you towards an organization, a resource, something to kind 1:34:36.840 --> 1:34:39.519 of give you more info on one of the topics 1:34:39.520 --> 1:34:42.320 we covered today. I mean, we honestly were just the 1:34:42.360 --> 1:34:45.080 whole time that Lisa was doing telling us about this 1:34:45.160 --> 1:34:49.880 true crime, thinking about poor Shasta and like rebuilding your 1:34:49.880 --> 1:34:53.400 life after so much tragedy and trauma. So we today 1:34:53.439 --> 1:34:56.160 are gonna shout out the National Center for Victims of Crime, 1:34:56.680 --> 1:35:00.240 which is Victims of Crime dot org. They are a 1:35:00.280 --> 1:35:03.639 nonprofit that advocates for victims' rights. They trained professionals who 1:35:03.640 --> 1:35:07.400 work with victims, and they're just a trusted source of 1:35:07.400 --> 1:35:13.599 information for victims issues. So go check them out. And yeah, and. 1:35:13.560 --> 1:35:15.960 Kara, you know, I am very passionate about this, learning 1:35:16.000 --> 1:35:19.000 all this through the podcast. I am like, we need 1:35:19.120 --> 1:35:20.839 to help people after they've. 1:35:20.640 --> 1:35:21.799 Gone through traumatic things. 1:35:21.840 --> 1:35:24.280 They're not going to act normal when abnormal things happen 1:35:24.360 --> 1:35:27.439 to them. And we have to stop judging people that 1:35:27.720 --> 1:35:30.120 are doing destructive things with their life. Because they are 1:35:30.600 --> 1:35:33.559 they could be healing from a horrific event in their lives. 1:35:34.080 --> 1:35:36.200 So I'm just really grateful for this pot. You know, 1:35:36.240 --> 1:35:40.240 I'm learning to so I'm happy about that. And next 1:35:40.280 --> 1:35:43.280 week we're going to be watching glasgow Man's Wrath. We've 1:35:43.320 --> 1:35:47.640 heard your requests and we are fulfilling them. It's season sixteen, 1:35:47.800 --> 1:35:52.959 episode six. Join us in this woodsy episode on Hulu 1:35:53.080 --> 1:35:56.240 or Peacock go to the local library. We had a 1:35:56.240 --> 1:35:58.759 librarian message us and she liked the shout out. 1:36:00.120 --> 1:36:03.280 Somebody also just requested this episode yesterday and it's like 1:36:03.439 --> 1:36:04.040 we're on it. 1:36:04.360 --> 1:36:07.439 Yeah, where we listen. We do what we what you do, 1:36:07.520 --> 1:36:10.960 We do what you tell us. See you guys next week. 1:36:11.000 --> 1:36:21.479 Bye bye. That's Messed Up as an exactly right production. 1:36:21.720 --> 1:36:23.600 If you have compliments you'd like to give us or 1:36:23.640 --> 1:36:25.799 episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email 1:36:25.840 --> 1:36:28.280 at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com. 1:36:28.320 --> 1:36:31.000 Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod 1:36:31.080 --> 1:36:33.680 and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us 1:36:33.680 --> 1:36:36.639 personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese. 1:36:36.800 --> 1:36:39.519 As always, please see our show notes for sources and 1:36:39.600 --> 1:36:40.280 more information. 1:36:40.640 --> 1:36:43.920 Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our 1:36:44.160 --> 1:36:47.080 incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kragon. 1:36:46.920 --> 1:36:50.000 And to our sound engineer and personal hero, Analie Snilson. 1:36:50.160 --> 1:36:52.960 And to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to. 1:36:53.040 --> 1:36:56.200 Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive 1:36:56.200 --> 1:37:00.280 producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kogariff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at 1:37:00.320 --> 1:37:01.280 Exactly Right Media. 1:37:01.360 --> 1:37:05.400 Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, 1:37:05.600 --> 1:37:08.800 or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're an advertiser 1:37:08.840 --> 1:37:12.120 interested in advertising on our show, go to midroll dot 1:37:12.160 --> 1:37:14.719 com slash ads Done. 1:37:14.720 --> 1:37:15.480 Done