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Speaker 1: What kind of a show you guys.

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Speaker 2: Putting on here today?

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Speaker 1: You're not interested in Armed now? No, look, we're going

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Speaker 1: to do this thing. We're going to have a.

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Speaker 2: Conversation eight film Spotters Adam and Josh.

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Speaker 1: Here.

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Speaker 2: The Film Spotting Archive has reviews top five and more

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Speaker 2: going back to two thousand and five. Access to that

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Speaker 2: archive is just one of the benefits you get as

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Speaker 2: a Film Spotting Family member, which you can learn more

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Speaker 2: about at Filmspottingfamily dot com. This weekend, this is Spinal

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Speaker 2: Tap is getting an always welcome theatrical re release.

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Speaker 3: Spinal Tap was part of our eight from eighty four series.

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Speaker 3: We did that back in twenty twenty. It was part

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Speaker 3: of a show dedicated to three great music movies from

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Speaker 3: that great movie year, Stop Making Sense, Purple Rain, and

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Speaker 3: Spinal Tap. How about that lineup? So from March twenty twenty,

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Speaker 3: here is our combined review of Tap and Stop Making Sense.

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Speaker 4: Hi, I got a type I want to play.

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Speaker 2: From the opening of Jonathan Demi Stop Making Sense. That's

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Speaker 2: Talking Heads front man David Byrne. We get into our

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Speaker 2: eight for eighty four rock trio now and we'll start

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Speaker 2: with the films that are the consensus masterpieces, Demi's seminal

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Speaker 2: concert film and Rob Reiners This is Spinal Tap. Spinal

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Speaker 2: Tap was first to be released. It came out in

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Speaker 2: March of eighty four, made a modest five million at

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Speaker 2: the domestic box office. That's around twelve million in today's dollars,

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Speaker 2: but not surprising considering it soon became a cult hit.

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Speaker 2: It did run in theaters for almost a year, and

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Speaker 2: it marked Rob reiners directing debut.

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Speaker 3: Looking at Stop Making Sense that only played limited release,

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Speaker 3: opened in New York City in October and made about

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Speaker 3: five million dollars in its theatrical run. Jonathan Demi had

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Speaker 3: been working for quite a bit, already started his career

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Speaker 3: a decade earlier, making cheap genre movies for Roger Corman.

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Speaker 3: Just before Stop Making Sense, he had made Melvin and

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Speaker 3: Howard and also Swing Shift. So these are two two

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Speaker 3: movies were familiar with Adam. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 3: they both showed up when we did our top five

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Speaker 3: films of nineteen eighty four. I think this was I

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Speaker 3: think this was in twenty seventeen around, and our ranking

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Speaker 3: of them on those lists was a little bit different.

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Speaker 3: Spinal Tap for you, the best film of nineteen eighty four,

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Speaker 3: you had Stopped Making Sense ranked number three. I had

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Speaker 3: stopped Making Sense as the second best film, So Splitting

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Speaker 3: Hairs probably a little bit there, But that's what we

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Speaker 3: do on this show. So now that you've thought about

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Speaker 3: it a little bit more, and especially in the context

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Speaker 3: of Purple Rain and this year that we've been revisiting

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Speaker 3: in this eight from eighty four series that has prompted

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Speaker 3: this show, do you feel pretty solid about that top

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Speaker 3: ranking for Spinal Tap?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I do, and I think it may come down

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Speaker 2: to that distinction. Sometimes we make between best versus favorite.

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Speaker 2: In a lot of ways, I think Stop Making Sense

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Speaker 2: might be the better film or the better craft film,

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Speaker 2: But in terms of the movie that I absolutely can't

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Speaker 2: imagine living without, I still value this as Final Tap

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Speaker 2: just a little bit more, and I want to avoid

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Speaker 2: trying to be two grandiose here and also avoid turning

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Speaker 2: this pandemic we're experiencing and how we're all coping with

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Speaker 2: it into a cliche. I mentioned this last week in

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Speaker 2: relation to our top five nineteen thirties films. We talked

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Speaker 2: about Top Hat and how it served as fantasy escapism

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Speaker 2: for people suffering through the Great Depression. Why couldn't it

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Speaker 2: transport us now as we all sit on our couches,

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Speaker 2: And I think Stop Making Sense offers a completely different

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Speaker 2: type of necessary escape. With Reread and Ginger, you're living

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Speaker 2: vicariously through them, and there's no real sense of community there.

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Speaker 2: And when I rewatched Stop Making Sense for this show,

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Speaker 2: I felt a little bit like Charlton Heston and the

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Speaker 2: Omega Man with that lone print of Woodstock, the last

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Speaker 2: man in the world, watching this eclectic group of performers

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Speaker 2: surrounded by people sharing in this collective reverie and Stop

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Speaker 2: Making Sense. Let's be honest, it's a party even without

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Speaker 2: the crowd there. Right. There are certainly songs and whole

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Speaker 2: stretches where you kind of forget the crowd is even there,

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Speaker 2: as if David Burne and company are performing only for us,

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Speaker 2: the film watching audience. And we can talk about that

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Speaker 2: in some of the ways Demi approaches it, but just

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Speaker 2: in terms of the number of musicians on stage and

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Speaker 2: the talent and joy of performing they exhibit, and their

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Speaker 2: interaction with each other, which is so crucial. It's like

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Speaker 2: you're on stage with them.

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Speaker 3: Well, and this is why Burne, David Byrne and Demi

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Speaker 3: were a perfect pairing for this film, for this music documentary.

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Speaker 3: It's exactly what Demi brought to the Justin Timberlake and

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Speaker 3: the Tennessee Kids doc from a few years ago on

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Speaker 3: Netflix emphasized the communal experience the fifteen plus I think

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Speaker 3: it was person band in that case, and the camera

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Speaker 3: floated among each performer and gave them their time. Similar

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Speaker 3: things are happening here. But just as Timberlake was the

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Speaker 3: conductor of that group, Burne is absolutely I would say

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Speaker 3: he's beyond the here. He is the auteur of this film.

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Speaker 3: David byrne Is and I talked a little bit about

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Speaker 3: this when we did that list the top five films

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Speaker 3: of eighty four. Because the way that he is paying

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Speaker 3: attention to everything from the production design to those who

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Speaker 3: are up on the stage with him, to the props,

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Speaker 3: the way he uses that lamp, that house slamp when

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Speaker 3: they're performing, This must be the place everything he's controlling

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Speaker 3: to a specific degree of Burne is and then Demi

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Speaker 3: is the sort of filmmaker that wants to make space

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Speaker 3: for all of that. His camera wants to encompass. You

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Speaker 3: see this in his fiction, in his drama films, his

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Speaker 3: camera wants to make room for everyone in the story,

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Speaker 3: and how many group scenes aren't there in Demi films,

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Speaker 3: And that's.

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Speaker 1: What this is.

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Speaker 3: A group scene. This is one long group scene made

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Speaker 3: up of the music, the brilliant music from Burn and

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Speaker 3: the Talking Heads as well. So yeah, I think it's

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Speaker 3: just the perfect example of everything coming together.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to echo what you said because that

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Speaker 2: clip we heard from Psycho Killer, that's one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite Demi moments. I think it made my top five

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Speaker 2: Jonathan Demi moments, a list we did back when he

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Speaker 2: passed away. And of course it opens just with David

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Speaker 2: Byrne walking out on stage and he dominates that tune.

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Speaker 2: But that sense of community I'm talking about in this

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Speaker 2: idea of unity that we see on stage showup the

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Speaker 2: whole rest of the film. It's built into the very

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Speaker 2: fabric of the movie. Yes, it starts with him alone,

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Speaker 2: but the next tune adds just one more piece Tina

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Speaker 2: Waima Rajase right, and they play Heaven and the Camera.

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure, if not the entire song, ninety five

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Speaker 2: percent of it stays on a two shot where they

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Speaker 2: are joined together that entire time. It's never about just

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Speaker 2: cutting to what she's doing or cutting to what David

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Speaker 2: Byrne is doing. It's about them together performing. And then

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Speaker 2: the next song adds Chris Franz on the drums, and

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Speaker 2: I think they perform thank you for sending Me an Angel,

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Speaker 2: and the way the camera then gives him his time

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Speaker 2: and goes from behind the drum set, rotating around to

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Speaker 2: the side in the front of the stage. It's rotating

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Speaker 2: around so that it gets those two in the shot

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Speaker 2: with him right, and what started as just kind of

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Speaker 2: the drummer becomes this trio. And then we're just going

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Speaker 2: to add more and more pieces until everybody finally is

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Speaker 2: on stage communing together. And you mention this specificity that

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Speaker 2: we get. There's no doubt about it. I actually want

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Speaker 2: to play for our listeners a quick clip that I

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Speaker 2: just happened to come across. Our friends at the blank

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Speaker 2: Check podcast tweeted this and it's a conversation after a screening.

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Speaker 2: I think of that justin Timberlake Concert film, where he's

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Speaker 2: talking about what draws him to live music and capturing

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Speaker 2: it and putting it on film.

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Speaker 4: For me, and I love shooting feature films with actors.

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Speaker 4: I love shooting documentaries with real people. But something about

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Speaker 4: shooting live music. I always this probably isn't true, but

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Speaker 4: I think this is the purest form of filmmaking. There

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Speaker 4: are these artists doing that, and we're here to team

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Speaker 4: up with that and capture that and in the way

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Speaker 4: the best suits the music that's being played.

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Speaker 2: And I just love Demi emphasizing the kind of giddiness

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Speaker 2: he has when he says there are these artists doing that,

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Speaker 2: and then when he says we're here to team up

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Speaker 2: with that again, that sense of team that sense of community,

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Speaker 2: and how important it is for him to do it

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Speaker 2: in a way that best suits the music being played.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what you articulated, Josh. There is this precision

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Speaker 2: to it, right, the choreography of the visuals matching the

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Speaker 2: stage choreography. And it would be almost impossible, I think,

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Speaker 2: to rank the top five numbers, the top five songs

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Speaker 2: in this movie if we force ourselves to do it.

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Speaker 2: But once in a lifetime stands out. Life during wartime

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Speaker 2: stands out as well as making Flippy Floffe. But then

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Speaker 2: you look at one like what a Day That was,

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Speaker 2: which goes almost completely to close ups, and that dramatic

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Speaker 2: silhouetted lighting, almost like it's a horror movie, and for

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Speaker 2: a while we don't get any group shots, isolated shots

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Speaker 2: of each member. Some of the angles are a little

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Speaker 2: bit more odder, but there's almost this mathematical framing to

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Speaker 2: every shot there that matches the song completely.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, it probably is the number I mentioned.

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Speaker 3: This must be the place, just because it has all

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Speaker 3: those elements you're talking about, and it's that balance of Burn,

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Speaker 3: David Burn's extreme individuality, extreme oddness, right, just the oddness

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Speaker 3: he has as a physical presence. But then also the

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Speaker 3: camera will back up and make room for, as you said,

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Speaker 3: the group, and they have this interesting use of I

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Speaker 3: think we'll probably talk about this when it comes to

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Speaker 3: Purple Rain, especially where there is some choreograp sort of.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, I think of the group

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Speaker 3: backing away from the stage, and this includes the backup

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Speaker 3: singers and dancers as well, Edna Holt and Lynn Maybury.

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Speaker 3: That everyone kind of backs up in unison, but at

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Speaker 3: the same time they're each doing their own thing. Those

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Speaker 3: two dancers, Maybury and Holt each have their own sort

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Speaker 3: of rhythm going on, and so it's at once this

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Speaker 3: group movement that also honors individuality, and I think that

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Speaker 3: that's the magic that Demi knows how to depict and

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Speaker 3: Burne obviously knows how to create.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is the magic of stop making sense. Any

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Speaker 2: final thoughts you want to get in on the film, No, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean I just one maybe that will bring us into

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Speaker 3: This is Spinal Tap. You mentioned how you know what

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Speaker 3: is a personal favorite as opposed to what is the best?

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Speaker 3: I think another as I thought of all three of

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Speaker 3: these films together, you know, not even really ranking, but

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Speaker 3: just as they how they sit with me an inescapable

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Speaker 3: fact is whatever music you like the best, you're going

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Speaker 3: to resonate with the most. So let me give my

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Speaker 3: this is Spinal Tap confession, which maybe explain why I

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Speaker 3: did have it ranked a little bit lower. Is that's

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Speaker 3: just brutal music to me? And the question I have

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Speaker 3: for you, Adam, as someone who is in a band

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Speaker 3: that plays on occasion, from what I understand, I still

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Speaker 3: have to see you live. Have not been able to

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Speaker 3: do that yet, but you know, we'll play covers of

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Speaker 3: this genre. I'll let you name the genre, whether it's

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Speaker 3: heavy metal, hair metal, whatever you want to say. But

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Speaker 3: my question is the music in Spinal Tap. Do you

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Speaker 3: consider it brutal on purpose or do you consider it

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Speaker 3: a very particular and precise rendition of that kind of music?

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Speaker 3: So are they doing a good job of this kind

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Speaker 3: of music? Basically, if you like this kind of music,

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Speaker 3: are these good performances of those types of songs?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to say it's more the former, but

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Speaker 2: there's some gray area there. I guess I will fundamentally

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Speaker 2: disagree with your position because I have this is Spinal

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Speaker 2: Tap ranked as my favorite movie of the three, but

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Speaker 2: in terms of the music, it's by far number three,

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Speaker 2: and it's way down at the bottom. And I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: be clear here, you're taking the bold position that the

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Speaker 2: mediocre band that's stuck playing air force bases and amusement

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Speaker 2: parks and being mocked on the radio isn't very good.

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Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying, Josh.

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Speaker 5: No, no, no, I'm saying Heavy Metals has been like

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Speaker 5: I would classify as one of those sounds along with

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Speaker 5: leaf blowers and people like revving up their trucks as

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Speaker 5: they sit actually.

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Speaker 3: Had a stoplight that gives me the hives.

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Speaker 5: That's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I get it, but I think the way I

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Speaker 2: look at it is, and thank you. You saved me

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Speaker 2: from having to pull out the I'm in a band card,

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Speaker 2: which is essential when talking about spinal tap.

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Speaker 3: But I knew, I knew it was common, so you.

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Speaker 2: You know me, Well, there's literally nobody. I'm gonna go

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Speaker 2: on the record and say there's literally nobody who watches

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Speaker 2: this is spinal tap and appreciates the music. Unironically, any

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Speaker 2: of the musicianship. Which is it to say that those

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Speaker 2: guys aren't actually halfway decent players. I mean, they're all

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Speaker 2: decent enough musicians to fake the way through it, and

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Speaker 2: we've seen them perform in other Christopher Guests movies too, right.

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Speaker 3: And honestly, that's why I asked, because I do I'm

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Speaker 3: not saying that they are untalented. This kind of music

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Speaker 3: question was like how, yeah, how does their talent trance?

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Speaker 3: Well's the question.

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Speaker 2: I guess The nuance is is that you can't help

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Speaker 2: but look at songs like Big Bottom and Stonehenge and

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Speaker 2: sex Form and not recognize them as jokes. And I

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Speaker 2: think what it gets right about heavy metal and I

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Speaker 2: use that term loosely because I do think it is

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Speaker 2: more rock and roll, but heavy metal does get thrown around.

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Speaker 2: I think a couple times in the film it gets

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Speaker 2: right to that genre has a juvenile obsession with sex,

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Speaker 2: and there's always that vague fascination with the occult and

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Speaker 2: mysticism and those cheap theatrics, and even something that I

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Speaker 2: had never really paid attention to before, Not like it

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Speaker 2: wasn't obviously there, but I had never really paid attention

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Speaker 2: to the heart of the movie before the way I

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Speaker 2: did this time, which is that rivalry and that friendship

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Speaker 2: between lead singer and guitar player. But that's something that's

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Speaker 2: so crucial to almost every rock band out there as

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Speaker 2: well for me, every band of that ILK though from

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Speaker 2: that time, and frankly just about every band who's ever toured,

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Speaker 2: regardless of what genre they fall into. They would be

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Speaker 2: able to watch Spinal Tap and see themselves in Tap,

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Speaker 2: while also totally accurately being able to say, oh, that's

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Speaker 2: not us at all. We don't sound like that. Like

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Speaker 2: Spinal Tap is a unique entity. As much as they

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Speaker 2: might be parroting certain aspects of heavy metal bands and

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Speaker 2: life on the road, the music is completely its own

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Speaker 2: thing that I don't think any one band out there

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Speaker 2: could say, oh, man, they really got us good with that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and they probably wouldn't want to because it

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Speaker 3: is pretty bad. So let's get to what is good.

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Speaker 3: And you mentioned it. The songs are jokes, obviously, yes,

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Speaker 3: and the lyrics are hysterical. And I could sit and

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Speaker 3: watch Marty de Berghee interview these guys. I mean, if

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Speaker 3: the movie was just that, I would be completely happy

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Speaker 3: and no surprise. I love comic improvisation and you can

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Speaker 3: just see. I love also seeing actors this talented at

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Speaker 3: it trying to keep character, not that they're gonna like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: not that they're gonna fall out of character and say

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Speaker 3: something out of character. What they're trying to do is

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Speaker 3: keep the glint in their eye when they see an

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Speaker 3: opening from getting too bright. And this is such rich

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Speaker 3: material and these guys are just so smart at delivering

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Speaker 3: it that that is their true challenge is just not

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Speaker 3: to get too excited about, you know, what they're what

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Speaker 3: they're gonna say, and whether it's you know, explaining the

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Speaker 3: drummers who they've lost along the way, or or even

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Speaker 3: like going up to eleven, just those pauses of where

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Speaker 3: Devergi is like dumbfounded at what he's hearing. The two

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Speaker 3: of them are gonna have to sustain this scene without

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Speaker 3: giving in or even smiling. It is brilliant stuff.

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Speaker 6: Now during the Flower People period, who is your drummer

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Speaker 6: Stumpy's replacement? Peter James Bonde. He also died in mysterious circumstances.

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Speaker 6: We were playing a festival, blues festival. When was that

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Speaker 6: blues jazz, really blues jazz.

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Speaker 1: Festival that was in the oil.

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Speaker 6: And it was tragic, really, he exploded on stage just

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Speaker 6: like that.

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Speaker 1: It just went up. It just was like a flash

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Speaker 1: of green light and that was it. Nothing was left. Well,

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Speaker 1: there was true. There's a little green globule on his

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Speaker 1: drum seat. It's like a stain. It was a small

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Speaker 1: of a staining, a globule.

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Speaker 6: Actually, several, you know, dozens of people spontaneously combusted each year.

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Speaker 6: It's just not really widely reported.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you. I think the best scenes in

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Speaker 2: the film were probably completely in lockstep that if they

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Speaker 2: had just made an entire movie out of Rob Reiner

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Speaker 2: as Marty de Bergie interviewing the band and watching how

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Speaker 2: Derek Smalls Harry Sheer knows when to insert himself into

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Speaker 2: the conversation and when to just stay on the outside

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Speaker 2: of it and let Michael McKean and Christopher Guest do

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Speaker 2: their thing, and them navigate each other and recognize when

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Speaker 2: they have to let the other guy take the lead.

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Speaker 2: And yes, you're right, not break character so much, because

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Speaker 2: they're all too good to do that. But you can

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Speaker 2: see that moment where they come up right against it.

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Speaker 2: They're so impressed with some bit of riffing that the

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Speaker 2: guy next to them just said that they're almost willing

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Speaker 2: to break. But then they get back into character and

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Speaker 2: manage to come up with the line to follow it with.

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Speaker 2: And you're right for me, All these years later, no

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Speaker 2: matter how many times I've seen it, it's still funny.

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Speaker 2: It still has all those great quotable lines and those

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Speaker 2: sight gags that everyone knows. But the funniest stuff to me, honestly,

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Speaker 2: besides those conversation scenes we just just touched on, are

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Speaker 2: the moments where we get a simple cut to Christopher

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Speaker 2: Guest expressionless but chomping the gum every time Janine talks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, just that's still a cut to him, no reaction,

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Speaker 2: no visible reaction, but we know everything he's thinking just

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Speaker 2: based on that cut.

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Speaker 3: And I'm glad you bring up Guests because I think

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Speaker 3: they're all obviously good and they're all giving us, you know,

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Speaker 3: real characters. But Guest, I think is giving a real

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Speaker 3: performance for sure. And it's the it's the elements you're

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Speaker 3: talking about, it's those little details where where he is

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Speaker 3: within that he's Nigel Toughnel. Every moment you know, he's

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Speaker 3: whether it's his turn to say something, to throw in

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Speaker 3: a riff, or just to sit there and listen.

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Speaker 1: He he is.

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Speaker 3: Not breaking character at all. And it's also that's where

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Speaker 3: as his films as a director go on, these other

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Speaker 3: mockumentaries he would make, you can see how they are

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Speaker 3: mostly increasingly rooted in character, in stories, in people, you

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Speaker 3: can imagine their full lives beyond the interview, the on

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Speaker 3: camera interview they're having right now, and you can see

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Speaker 3: the seeds of that in his performance as Nigel, in

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Speaker 3: this full character he's giving.

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Speaker 2: Us absolutely just that mixture of bravado and stupidity is

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Speaker 2: really brilliant. What can you do but laugh at moments

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Speaker 2: like him saying so it's sexy, what's wrong with being sexy?

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Speaker 2: When they're talking about the album cover and out sexualist.

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Speaker 2: It's just perfection. So yeah, I love both of these films,

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Speaker 2: This is Spinal Tap and Stop Making Sense. Both of

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Speaker 2: them are available on demand on various platforms right now.

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Speaker 7: I do, not, for one, think that the problem was

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Speaker 7: that the band was down. I think that the problem

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Speaker 7: may have been that there was a stone ange monument

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Speaker 7: on the stage. It was in danger of being crushed

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Speaker 7: by a dwarf, all right.

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Speaker 1: That tended to understate the hugeness of the object.

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Speaker 3: I really think you're just making it much too bigger

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Speaker 3: thing out of it.

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Speaker 1: Making a big thing out of it would have been

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Speaker 1: a good idea.

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Speaker 2: A reminder that access to the full film Spotting archive

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Speaker 2: going back to two thousand and five is one of

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Speaker 2: the benefits of joining the film Spotting Family, plus bonus shows,

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Speaker 2: a weekly newsletter, early access to events, and more. You

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Speaker 2: can learn more at Filmspotting Family dot com.

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Speaker 1: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. The bind.

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Speaker 2: Film Spotting is listeners supported. Join the film Spotting Family

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