WEBVTT - Welcome to the Panopticon

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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<v Speaker 1>Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie teas Julie listeners.

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<v Speaker 1>Imagine a vast circular prison. Okay, you with me, yes, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>Now you step inside, and you'll find a curious arrangement

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<v Speaker 1>of the cells. Because most of this enclosed face is

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<v Speaker 1>exactly bad. It's empty space. The quicle cells line the

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<v Speaker 1>circumference of the inner walls. Uh, several stories worth in

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<v Speaker 1>fact in their bars, all face inward toward a lone

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<v Speaker 1>guard tower known as the Inspector's Lodge. Okay, Now, standing

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<v Speaker 1>within your prison cell, you can't see any of your

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<v Speaker 1>fellow cell mates, can't see any of the other cells.

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<v Speaker 1>All you can see is this tower, and you can't

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<v Speaker 1>see the inspector, that supposedly man's it due to a

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<v Speaker 1>mesh screen. But you know he's there. You know he's watching. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>You know he's referencing a detailed map of which prisoner

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<v Speaker 1>occupies which cell, and you know that he listens in

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<v Speaker 1>as well. But of course, the inspector can only look

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<v Speaker 1>or listen to one cell at any given moment, right,

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<v Speaker 1>but you never know if his attention is turned to you,

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<v Speaker 1>so you have to assume at all times that he

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<v Speaker 1>might be listening to you. You have to avoid that

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<v Speaker 1>type to error and cognition. It's the only way to

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<v Speaker 1>deal with the endless uncertainty. It's safer to assume, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And besides that, you know that prisoners are regularly moved

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<v Speaker 1>to new cells based on good or bad behavior. So

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<v Speaker 1>I see that you have had a look inside my house.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh is this how you have your house arranged? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>So you're the inspector. What makes it really easy to

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<v Speaker 1>keep tabs on everybody? Yeah? So I think what you

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<v Speaker 1>have just described as something called the panopticon. Yes, And

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to talk about this today. We're going to

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<v Speaker 1>look at how spaces can have the power to liberate,

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<v Speaker 1>as we've talked about before with labyrinths, or they have

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<v Speaker 1>the power to oppress. And when you think about prison

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<v Speaker 1>and you think about prisoners, you think about anxiety, loneliness,

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<v Speaker 1>in vulnerability, and so this panopticon is really this idea

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<v Speaker 1>of these concentric circles closing in on us. Yeah. And

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<v Speaker 1>what's great about it is that it's not only this

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<v Speaker 1>this wonderful and then disturbing to varying levels design for

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<v Speaker 1>how we might use a physical space to have this

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<v Speaker 1>drastic effect on the human mind. But it also over

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<v Speaker 1>the years has been picked up as a philosophical idea,

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<v Speaker 1>as a metaphor that we apply to government, to internet culture,

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<v Speaker 1>you name it. I mean, you do a search for panopticon,

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<v Speaker 1>you will find people using it just about every uh

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<v Speaker 1>way they possibly can to criticize a given system of order, government, bureaucracy, etcetera. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>probably one of the oldest ways in which it's been

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<v Speaker 1>linked is this metaphor of the seeing eye of God, right,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly in Western culture, because when you're indoctrinated into Western culture,

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<v Speaker 1>you're indoctrinated this idea that there's this uh, this powerful

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<v Speaker 1>gaze and this powerful memory of a deity looking over

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<v Speaker 1>all of us. Yeah, he knows what you've been doing

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<v Speaker 1>when you're awake. Yeah, Santa Claus and God kind of

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of share the same space and in the

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<v Speaker 1>Western mindset, and and you're right to to to your point,

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<v Speaker 1>the idea of the inspector and the Inspector's lodge and

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<v Speaker 1>that tower at the center of the Penoptacon is very

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<v Speaker 1>much the idea of a god, but a but a

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<v Speaker 1>very uh, non personal god, a god that's all up

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<v Speaker 1>in your business. But also you have you have no

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<v Speaker 1>real clue as to what they look like, what they are,

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<v Speaker 1>what their their their ideas are regarding your fate in

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<v Speaker 1>this strange, strangely ordered prison. Well, this is a vengeful God.

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<v Speaker 1>And um, this is something that you know what came

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<v Speaker 1>out of the mind of a English utilitarian philosopher by

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<v Speaker 1>the name of Jeremy Bentham, who unveiled this architectural marvel,

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<v Speaker 1>these plans for this panoptic into the world. So as

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<v Speaker 1>you said, you know, let's revisit that again that we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about two sets of concentric towers within the other,

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<v Speaker 1>with cells lining the outer wall, being visible to and

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<v Speaker 1>subject to regulation from the watcher the eye of God.

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<v Speaker 1>And those people they would live, they would eat, they

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<v Speaker 1>would sleep and work in these cells and what they

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<v Speaker 1>thought was constant surveillance. Now give you a little background

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<v Speaker 1>Jeremy Bentham with the eighteen thirty two again. He's a

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<v Speaker 1>British philosopher and and something of a political radical. He's

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<v Speaker 1>mainly known for the philosophy of utilitarianism, which elevates actions

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<v Speaker 1>based on their relevant consequences to the overall happiness of

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<v Speaker 1>everyone affected. And he had something of a hedonistic approach

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<v Speaker 1>to happiness, defining its simply as a matter of experiencing

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<v Speaker 1>pleasure and a lack of pain. Um. Now, when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to his uh popticon, uh he, his approach to

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<v Speaker 1>it was, this is an overall good idea. He wasn't saying,

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<v Speaker 1>I have a great humanity crushing concept. I want to

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<v Speaker 1>they all in the world, you know, he was saying, Look,

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<v Speaker 1>prisons are a mess. We're in this. We're in the

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<v Speaker 1>midst of of of overall attempts to form our prisons

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<v Speaker 1>and make them more effective and make them less horrifying.

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<v Speaker 1>So here's one way we can do it, and we

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<v Speaker 1>can make it more cost effective and overall just more

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<v Speaker 1>effective as well. Because if you have a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>guards in a central tower watching over everyone, then you

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<v Speaker 1>don't have guards that are going, you know, on the

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<v Speaker 1>beat to every single cell and looking over right, so

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<v Speaker 1>you have less manpower that actually has to enforce this

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<v Speaker 1>feeling that you're being surveiled. Yeah, you end up with

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<v Speaker 1>four guards that you're to only two of which are

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<v Speaker 1>actually paid because you have the two guys, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>one guy maybe walking around. You have one guy in

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<v Speaker 1>the tower, and then you have fear and uncertainty, and

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<v Speaker 1>you don't have to pay for those because those guys

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<v Speaker 1>are are are summoned out of the very physicality of

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<v Speaker 1>the structure. Yeah, and it's actually compounded that this this

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<v Speaker 1>this fear by this idea of having those cells being illuminated,

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<v Speaker 1>but the observation tower actually being dark, so that the

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<v Speaker 1>prisoners could be observed all the time. They wouldn't be

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<v Speaker 1>able to tell when they were being observed, and so

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<v Speaker 1>the goal is for them to learn to act as

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<v Speaker 1>if they were constantly under surveillance. And the idea is

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<v Speaker 1>that once this uh, I guess you could call it

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<v Speaker 1>self discipline was instilled, that prisoners could be released into

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<v Speaker 1>society with the capacity to regulate their own behavior through paranoia.

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<v Speaker 1>Really and yeah and benthem, I mean he's not again,

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<v Speaker 1>he's not trying to be dastardly about this. He's sort

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<v Speaker 1>of thinking, this is the way that we can uh

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<v Speaker 1>manage the prison problem and reform the prisoner via paranoia exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So originally he thought about this as a prison design,

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<v Speaker 1>but he also thought it was quote applicable to any

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<v Speaker 1>sort of establishment in which persons of any description are

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<v Speaker 1>to be kept under inspection. So we're talking about insane

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<v Speaker 1>asylums for houses. But this is where it gets into society. Factories, schools,

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<v Speaker 1>and hospitals. Yeah, I mean, without without getting into the

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<v Speaker 1>fine details of it, you can see where that would

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<v Speaker 1>that would make sense, and say a hospital where you

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<v Speaker 1>you want constant surveillance more or less of people's conditions,

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<v Speaker 1>or at the very least you want people to feel

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<v Speaker 1>like they're under constant care and surveillance, So that would

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<v Speaker 1>make sense. And obviously with the school situation, but sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>it feels like a school is very similar to a

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<v Speaker 1>prisoner insane asylum, and you have to have that kind

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<v Speaker 1>of order in place to make sure that everyone's doing

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<v Speaker 1>right and and obeying their the laws of the school,

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<v Speaker 1>not cheating on every test, not skipping classes. The problem

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<v Speaker 1>with us and we'll get more into this, uh in

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<v Speaker 1>a bit, is this inherent distrust right? Because Okay, you

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<v Speaker 1>see it extended to prisons, but factories, schools, and hospitals.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not necessarily just taking the form of hey, we're

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<v Speaker 1>just going to surveil and make sure everything is okay.

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<v Speaker 1>There's this idea that something is wrong. Someone somewhere is

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<v Speaker 1>doing something wrong. Right, Yeah, the whole system ends up

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<v Speaker 1>being predicated on guilt, and and it's him to Guildea.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, So what you're you're you're probably asking yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>You're saying, all right, well, where's the panopticon? Point to

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<v Speaker 1>the pen opticon, so I might see a picture of it. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>And certainly there's some wonderful sketches of it, because I've

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<v Speaker 1>been to put a lot of thought and effort into

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<v Speaker 1>the designs. He worked with an architect. He was even

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<v Speaker 1>taught in talks to see his design implemented at one point.

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<v Speaker 1>But the Penopticon was never built in his lifetime. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>no true panopticon prison was ever built another and no

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<v Speaker 1>one ever took his designs and said all right, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna build this this thing that he designed. Part of

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<v Speaker 1>the problem here is that by the time surveillance technology

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<v Speaker 1>really caught up with his vision, you no longer need

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<v Speaker 1>that specific architecture to make it happen. Like once you

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<v Speaker 1>can actually wire every prison cell conceivably with video and audio.

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<v Speaker 1>If you've reached the point where you can do that,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't need this giant space with all this wasted

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<v Speaker 1>empty space between the cells and the tower. You can

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<v Speaker 1>just build a big, you know, farm of cubes and

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<v Speaker 1>then just wire it up right. Yeah, I mean it

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<v Speaker 1>is a huge cost, and politicians were interested, but they

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<v Speaker 1>weren't necessarily going to implement it. Yeah, and we see

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<v Speaker 1>this all the time even today. You know, you're always

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<v Speaker 1>finding stuff showing up in your your feed, your news feed,

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<v Speaker 1>or your Facebook feed where it's like some crazy design

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<v Speaker 1>that's going to innovate the way that we travel or

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<v Speaker 1>do business or live. And for the most part, you're

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<v Speaker 1>not going to see those designs implemented. Those represent the

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<v Speaker 1>extreme that under the best of situations will um you'll

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<v Speaker 1>see aspects of that implemented further down the chain, or

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<v Speaker 1>at least will draw um inspiration and innovation in that direction. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>But so it was never truly built, but it's still

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<v Speaker 1>influenced other prisons. Yes, And probably the best example that

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<v Speaker 1>we can we can find for this is a Cuba's

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<v Speaker 1>UH Presidio MODELO and this was built between n and

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<v Speaker 1>nine and it actually consists of five panopticon buildings, each

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<v Speaker 1>designed to hold prisoners. So these are five buildings UH

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<v Speaker 1>cells lining the inside of the the outer walls, and

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<v Speaker 1>then there's a tower in the center where the guards

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<v Speaker 1>would be able to watch everyone. And uh, you know it,

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<v Speaker 1>it operated, it was functional, and you actually saw some

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<v Speaker 1>some star prisoners there. I Fidel Castro was a prisoner

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<v Speaker 1>there during the rebellion and uh, but of course, then

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<v Speaker 1>after his rise to power, you see the thing just

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<v Speaker 1>stuffed with political prisoners, um, homosexuals, Jeovah's witnesses, counter revolutionaries,

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<v Speaker 1>various enemies of the state, and so the population quickly

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<v Speaker 1>skyrockets to six thousand inmates. Now, of course, that's the

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<v Speaker 1>thing about prisons. If they're built to contain a certain

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<v Speaker 1>number of people. Um, if you overstuffed them, you're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>overload any system, You're gonna overload the wiring of the prison.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's exactly what happened, you that you have overcrowding

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<v Speaker 1>at least riots in nineteen sixty one, and then it

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<v Speaker 1>was permanently closed by the government in nineteen sixty six.

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<v Speaker 1>Today it's a museum and I think there's a school

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<v Speaker 1>there and also some some offices. But for the most

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<v Speaker 1>part you can you can still find pictures of this

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<v Speaker 1>online and and you can visit it if you're in Cuba,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's a it's really remarkable to look at because

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<v Speaker 1>is it's the idea of the panopticon brought to physical life.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to point out a quote by Architects, Designers

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<v Speaker 1>Planners for Social Responsibility that's a d p s R.

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<v Speaker 1>There is an essay on this about prisons and panopticon,

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<v Speaker 1>and the quote is the best intention. Reformist designs have

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<v Speaker 1>believed that more complete control of prisoners through design would

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<v Speaker 1>be used only to further higher goals such as religious

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<v Speaker 1>awakenings and in a reflection, but in fact control is

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<v Speaker 1>an end in itself, and prisons just recreate the powerlessness

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<v Speaker 1>of the member of poor and oppressed groups under even

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<v Speaker 1>stricter rules than they face on the outside. That was

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<v Speaker 1>something interesting to ponder just in general. Not you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the panopticon is really this idealized version of power and control.

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<v Speaker 1>But the prison system as it exists right now, Um,

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<v Speaker 1>there are many people who would say that it doesn't work,

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't reform. I agree, I agree, And that's that's

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<v Speaker 1>definitely a subject for another episode. We could do a

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<v Speaker 1>whole episode on the state of prisons and and the

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<v Speaker 1>mindset that goes into prison designs. Overall and just let

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<v Speaker 1>the philosophy that goes into an house change over time. Indeed,

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<v Speaker 1>so let's take a quick break, and when we get back,

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<v Speaker 1>we are going to look more at this panopticon from

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<v Speaker 1>the perspective of Michelle fel Cole. All right, we're back.

0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:31.079
<v Speaker 1>So yes, Uh, that's the best example of the panopticon

0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.480
<v Speaker 1>physically that we have. And you do see uh panopticonic

0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:40.400
<v Speaker 1>elements incorporated into various other prison designs. But for the

0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.720
<v Speaker 1>most part, where panopticon continues to have the most power

0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:46.160
<v Speaker 1>today is as metaphor. That's right. And uh, that's why

0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.199
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to bring up that quote by the A. D.

0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:53.360
<v Speaker 1>Spr because Michelle Fockle is a French philosopher who brought

0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:58.240
<v Speaker 1>up the panopticon as this idea of a metaphor of

0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:03.120
<v Speaker 1>our society. That disciplinary systems are prisons in particular, with

0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.520
<v Speaker 1>a panopticon is the ideal type there they can be

0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:11.280
<v Speaker 1>social failures. Yeah, fo Call's picture of modern disciplinary society

0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:15.440
<v Speaker 1>breaks into three primary techniques that governmental powers used to

0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:22.160
<v Speaker 1>control the masses. That's hierarchical observation, normalizing, judgment, and examination.

0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.720
<v Speaker 1>Now and where this panopticon enters into all that is

0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.080
<v Speaker 1>that according to focal power over people can can be

0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 1>achieved merely by observing them. So it's like with the panopticon.

0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.360
<v Speaker 1>But the deal is that a single inspector would be impossible, right,

0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.760
<v Speaker 1>especially when you're talking about governmental power, So you need

0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.040
<v Speaker 1>relays of inspectors. You need all of them arrange in

0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.360
<v Speaker 1>a hierarchy so that data can pass up and down

0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.000
<v Speaker 1>the chain based on importance. And in all of this

0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:51.400
<v Speaker 1>fool focusing on society's modern transition from a quote culture

0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:55.280
<v Speaker 1>of spectacle to make our sero or prison culture. Now

0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:56.880
<v Speaker 1>this gets into the idea that what happened when you

0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.079
<v Speaker 1>broke the law in the old days, and like really

0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.480
<v Speaker 1>broke it, like broke it hard, you would be made

0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.200
<v Speaker 1>spectacle of right, And that's what he says. He says

0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.520
<v Speaker 1>that this is a quote for him. By the effect

0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.760
<v Speaker 1>of backlighting, one can observe from the tower standing out

0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:12.680
<v Speaker 1>precisely against the light, the small captive shadows, and the

0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.679
<v Speaker 1>cells of the periphery. They are like so many cages,

0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.960
<v Speaker 1>so many small theaters, in which each actor is alone,

0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:23.480
<v Speaker 1>perfectly individualized and constantly visible. So he's saying that this

0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:27.160
<v Speaker 1>stage that the has been reversed, that the audience is

0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:31.120
<v Speaker 1>now in the cells, and the actor, the performer, is

0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.360
<v Speaker 1>that that watch person looking over everybody else, and it

0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:39.400
<v Speaker 1>still remains too spectacle. Really, Yeah, a reversal of the

0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.840
<v Speaker 1>old days where everyone will be gathered around the guillotine

0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:44.640
<v Speaker 1>or the heads of his block, or the or the

0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.640
<v Speaker 1>news or what have you. So, yeah, and within those

0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:51.840
<v Speaker 1>three points that you had made, the hierarchical distribution of information,

0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.680
<v Speaker 1>examination of the information, but also normalizing. This is a

0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:56.960
<v Speaker 1>really important aspect of this, and this is what a

0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:58.520
<v Speaker 1>lot of people run with when they look at our

0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.320
<v Speaker 1>society today, look at the different ways that panopticon can

0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:06.640
<v Speaker 1>exist in different formats. So what call has to say

0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.640
<v Speaker 1>about normalizing, he says, Hence the major effect of the

0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 1>panopticon to induce in the inmate a state of conscious

0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:17.560
<v Speaker 1>and permanent visibility that assures the automatic functioning of power.

0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.280
<v Speaker 1>So to arrange things that the surveillance is permanent in

0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:24.040
<v Speaker 1>its effects, even if it is discontinuous in its action. Again,

0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.440
<v Speaker 1>this is sort of going back to what Bentham was

0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.720
<v Speaker 1>really saying, is trying to instill that paranoia that you're

0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.920
<v Speaker 1>being watched even if you're not being watched. Yeah, they

0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.520
<v Speaker 1>might be watching me. So therefore there's this always feeling,

0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:38.400
<v Speaker 1>there's always this feeling that kind of evens out that

0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.440
<v Speaker 1>they are watching me. Yeah, and I'll just skip ahead.

0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.240
<v Speaker 1>In this quote, he says, in short, that the inmates

0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:45.640
<v Speaker 1>should be caught up in a power situation of which

0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:49.320
<v Speaker 1>they are themselves the bearer. So they are the bearer

0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.520
<v Speaker 1>of this, and it's this normalization of always being under

0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:54.760
<v Speaker 1>the gaze. And this is what call had a problem

0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.840
<v Speaker 1>with because he said that again, it's not just limited

0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:01.200
<v Speaker 1>to prison design. It's a meta for for all types

0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.880
<v Speaker 1>of different social organizations and structure, schools, factories, and governments

0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:08.320
<v Speaker 1>now perdue universities. Dino Feluga breaks down the effects of

0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.040
<v Speaker 1>pen optic organizational models into into seven overall effects, and

0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:13.960
<v Speaker 1>I think these are pretty interesting. This again is his

0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:18.320
<v Speaker 1>view and his commentary on focals philosophy. Number One, society

0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:22.240
<v Speaker 1>becomes less willing to contest unjust laws, like everyone's under

0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.320
<v Speaker 1>the gaze of the observer, and so therefore, even if

0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.960
<v Speaker 1>the law seemed to becoming becoming unjust, you're less likely

0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.080
<v Speaker 1>to speak out of them, because the gaze is in

0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:35.680
<v Speaker 1>theory on everyone uh. Number two, rehabilitation rather than crueler

0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.760
<v Speaker 1>and unusual punishment. So again we talked about that it

0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.360
<v Speaker 1>becomes more about the prison system rather than the spectacle. Uh.

0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Then there's birth of an information society. You become more

0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.200
<v Speaker 1>and more dependent on technology and record keeping. Uh. You

0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.400
<v Speaker 1>have a bureaucracy of information in which people become numbers

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.320
<v Speaker 1>because again you're having to keep track of everybody and

0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.960
<v Speaker 1>keep track of everything. And this is the panoptic system.

0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.880
<v Speaker 1>Efficiency becomes more and more important, even at the cost

0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:04.320
<v Speaker 1>of exploitation or injustice. And finally, a specialization. Members of

0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:08.080
<v Speaker 1>the workforce are organized into increasingly specialized fields so that

0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:12.000
<v Speaker 1>we increasingly rely on other experts to complete tasks that

0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.320
<v Speaker 1>had previously been shared or common knowledge, so that you know,

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:20.560
<v Speaker 1>we're talking to the preparation of meats and other food products, building, construction, transportation, etcetera.

0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.960
<v Speaker 1>His idea here is that with the panopticon, it kind

0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:29.560
<v Speaker 1>of breeds bureaucracy, and bureau bureaucracy is the uh is

0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.560
<v Speaker 1>the brick and mortar of the governmental Uh penopticon to

0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:38.600
<v Speaker 1>power panopticon. Uh, that that is society. Yeah, and these

0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:42.360
<v Speaker 1>these unwritten rules, UM, and this idea that you're being surveiled,

0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.040
<v Speaker 1>this idea that it's all normal. Right, you can start

0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.639
<v Speaker 1>to look around and as people have done, particularly at

0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:52.440
<v Speaker 1>the drone situation, and say, okay, so what about the

0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.280
<v Speaker 1>pentopticon and modern society. We'll start to think about how

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:59.520
<v Speaker 1>the Pentagon has scores of communication satellites, many of them

0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.880
<v Speaker 1>for link drones, grand roots and imagery analysts. There are

0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:07.520
<v Speaker 1>some seven thousand aerial drones compared with fear than fifty

0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:11.120
<v Speaker 1>a decade ago. Now consider that we increasingly have something else,

0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.240
<v Speaker 1>spy flies which were equipped with sensors of micro cameras,

0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.560
<v Speaker 1>and the fact that since September eleven, uh the hours

0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.120
<v Speaker 1>the Air Force devotes to flying missions for intelligence, surveillance

0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.640
<v Speaker 1>and reconnaissance have gone up three thousand, one hundred percent.

0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.840
<v Speaker 1>And everyday the Air Force processes fifteen hundred hours of

0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.480
<v Speaker 1>full motion videos and in the fifteen hundred still images,

0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.920
<v Speaker 1>a lot of it from the predator drones and reapers.

0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 1>So that's one tiny aspect of surveilling power that exists

0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.399
<v Speaker 1>in the world today, and of course, in the in

0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.720
<v Speaker 1>the past few months, the n s A has been

0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:48.240
<v Speaker 1>all over the headlines for both its domestic surveillance programs

0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:52.480
<v Speaker 1>and its international surveillance programs and uh and that of

0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:54.240
<v Speaker 1>course is a really hot button topic as well, with

0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.240
<v Speaker 1>critics charging of the NSA not only infringes on our privacy,

0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.960
<v Speaker 1>but lays the technological groundwork for a true police state.

0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.239
<v Speaker 1>And it's really just part of an overall poptic um

0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.520
<v Speaker 1>structure on society. Yeah, and the problem there is that

0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:13.040
<v Speaker 1>legislation cannot keep up with technological advances. So you have

0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.440
<v Speaker 1>these sort of things being rolled out and if they

0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.640
<v Speaker 1>are challenged, and then takes a while to actually get

0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.159
<v Speaker 1>that policy in place or that law in place to

0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:26.159
<v Speaker 1>sort of balance out what sort of surveilling power is

0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:31.520
<v Speaker 1>needed to run a government versus what just becomes overwhelming

0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.880
<v Speaker 1>and and there's a huge debate about that right now. Um.

0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.960
<v Speaker 1>The other thing is that in a way, every time

0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 1>you use the Internet, you are willingly submitting yourself to

0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.399
<v Speaker 1>this penopticon. I mean you think about the humble cookie, right,

0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:52.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean you're talking about this tiny, little omniscient tendril

0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:57.920
<v Speaker 1>of the Internet that gathering information about you. It's recording

0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.359
<v Speaker 1>your Internet browsing habits, and it's reporting them to a

0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.480
<v Speaker 1>business that you know nothing about. So in a way,

0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:09.280
<v Speaker 1>the corporation becomes the tower you know, the central tower

0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:13.119
<v Speaker 1>with the watchman, and we are in those little cubicles

0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.760
<v Speaker 1>surrounding it with all of our information being passed on.

0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:17.680
<v Speaker 1>And I'm not trying to be dramatic about it. It's

0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:20.320
<v Speaker 1>just if you really want to look at this system,

0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:24.119
<v Speaker 1>this panoptic system, and look at it in the digital sphere,

0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.440
<v Speaker 1>that's an essence how it's working. Yeah. Like I think

0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.560
<v Speaker 1>of browsing the Internet at work, which I mean in

0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.520
<v Speaker 1>some places of work, that's that's already breaking the rules.

0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:35.640
<v Speaker 1>Here we do a lot of Internet research, so it's

0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:39.200
<v Speaker 1>it's part of our job. But but every time we

0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:41.840
<v Speaker 1>we conduct a search and go to a website here

0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:46.400
<v Speaker 1>at work, there are like several layers of potential panopticonic

0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.400
<v Speaker 1>thinking going on. First of all, all right, the cookies

0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.280
<v Speaker 1>that are talking to my Facebook and to me into

0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:55.480
<v Speaker 1>this site and this site. You know what to what

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:57.439
<v Speaker 1>degree am I being watched there? The side I just

0:20:57.440 --> 0:20:59.520
<v Speaker 1>went to. All right, all these different corporations just found

0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.400
<v Speaker 1>out about it. Uh, next time using a work machine

0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.399
<v Speaker 1>on a work Internet connection. I know that they have

0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.919
<v Speaker 1>certain systems in place. I don't know the details of

0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:11.560
<v Speaker 1>them or how they work, but I know that they

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:16.080
<v Speaker 1>can slash our, you know, observing what I'm doing on

0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:20.080
<v Speaker 1>my machine and uh and so it eventually becomes this

0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.000
<v Speaker 1>situation of you you feel like you're observed all the time,

0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.199
<v Speaker 1>and what are you comfortable being observed doing? You know,

0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.159
<v Speaker 1>you end up rationalizing like, all right, I'm going to

0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.439
<v Speaker 1>this website. I'm clearly going here for research. I have

0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.800
<v Speaker 1>a good excuse when the inspector leaves the tower and

0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:37.760
<v Speaker 1>comes to get me, like like, that's the kind of

0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:40.480
<v Speaker 1>weird thinking you're you're left in because you assume you're

0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:44.480
<v Speaker 1>being watched. Now, to add to this um are other

0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:49.240
<v Speaker 1>technological chats, advancements, however you want to swing it. I'm

0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:53.240
<v Speaker 1>thinking about Google Glass because here some people would say, okay,

0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:56.679
<v Speaker 1>here's this thing that is recording not only audio, but

0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:00.879
<v Speaker 1>video of everything that's going around them. So now we

0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:05.720
<v Speaker 1>have this idea of the panopticon as us gathering information

0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:08.760
<v Speaker 1>about one another. And this does sound a little bit paranoid,

0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.760
<v Speaker 1>but I think that the crux of this argument is

0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:16.520
<v Speaker 1>if and when everyone is wearing Google Glass, then it

0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:21.320
<v Speaker 1>becomes normalizing behavior to surveil people even though you're not.

0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.000
<v Speaker 1>You wouldn't call it surveiling. You know, your co workers

0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.640
<v Speaker 1>or your friends, but you are gathering data about them,

0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.000
<v Speaker 1>and essentially there is a third party that is using

0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:34.159
<v Speaker 1>that data in some way and linking it up with

0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:37.840
<v Speaker 1>other data. And we've talked about facial recognition systems, or

0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:40.959
<v Speaker 1>it's just a different layers that can be put together

0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:44.439
<v Speaker 1>to put to create really a profile of a person

0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:47.720
<v Speaker 1>and try to predict their behavior and what they're doing

0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:51.880
<v Speaker 1>and buying and engaging in. Yeah, it's I mean, it's

0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:53.920
<v Speaker 1>already crazy. Where to the point where you put a

0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:56.600
<v Speaker 1>photo up on Facebook, Like, for instance, I'll put a

0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:59.760
<v Speaker 1>photo up of me and my wife and our child,

0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:04.200
<v Speaker 1>and the Facebook will say, hey, look at the face

0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:06.000
<v Speaker 1>of your wife. Do you want to identify this? We

0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:08.280
<v Speaker 1>know who this is. Facebook knows who it is. And

0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:11.040
<v Speaker 1>then they pointed that the face of of our child,

0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:13.880
<v Speaker 1>and and Facebook says, who is this? Tell us who

0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:16.480
<v Speaker 1>this is? Tag them now? And I say, you don't.

0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:19.040
<v Speaker 1>You don't have him yet, not wait, And I'm sure

0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:22.520
<v Speaker 1>he'll be on there, but for now, he's he's outside

0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:25.720
<v Speaker 1>of your system, he's outside of your panopticon, right. Well,

0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:29.400
<v Speaker 1>in in some ways he's outside of society, right because

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:31.960
<v Speaker 1>if this is what we increasingly continue to do we

0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:37.560
<v Speaker 1>indoctrinating another one another via our virtual internet presence. Then

0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:41.080
<v Speaker 1>if you're not in the yet, then you're operating outside

0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:45.119
<v Speaker 1>of society. Yeah. We've already looked at some commentary before

0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:49.679
<v Speaker 1>about how the newer generations the idea of private lives

0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:53.680
<v Speaker 1>has to varying degrees eroded. Uh, there's just more. They're

0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:56.840
<v Speaker 1>more comfortable by and large with the idea of just

0:23:56.920 --> 0:23:59.560
<v Speaker 1>living your life out there on the Internet where anyone

0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:03.240
<v Speaker 1>can see it. And so I can imagine a day

0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:09.720
<v Speaker 1>when it becomes the norm that you're also contributing to this, uh,

0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:13.000
<v Speaker 1>this panoficon structure through the information it's streaming through your

0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:16.200
<v Speaker 1>your glasses or whatever kind of a personal computing device

0:24:16.200 --> 0:24:19.520
<v Speaker 1>you're you're wearing, and then adding to the surveillance information

0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:21.160
<v Speaker 1>on the society you live in. Yeah, because I guess

0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:23.480
<v Speaker 1>the flip side on this is that, um, the more

0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:26.840
<v Speaker 1>data that's being put out there, the more transparency could occur. Right,

0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:31.520
<v Speaker 1>So I think the positive spin on this would be Okay,

0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:34.879
<v Speaker 1>So we're we are collecting an immense amount of data

0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:38.480
<v Speaker 1>about one another in society, but as a result, perhaps

0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:42.400
<v Speaker 1>we would have less corruption, we would have less ne'er

0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:45.639
<v Speaker 1>do well is Um, well, but Fuco would never say that. No, No,

0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:47.879
<v Speaker 1>I would never say that that is the that's what

0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:49.640
<v Speaker 1>the answer at the end of I know, I'm playing

0:24:49.640 --> 0:24:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Devil's advocate and saying it's someone on the other side

0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:54.439
<v Speaker 1>of this argument could say, Hey, there's there's a worth

0:24:54.480 --> 0:24:58.200
<v Speaker 1>in having this amount of data out there, and that

0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:03.000
<v Speaker 1>there's no way that everyone, all the corporations in the world,

0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:06.560
<v Speaker 1>all pulled together, could truly analyze the amount of data

0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:09.720
<v Speaker 1>that comes out of it. That's one argument. Yeah, it

0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:11.760
<v Speaker 1>all comes back to what you were saying earlier about

0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:15.280
<v Speaker 1>the idea that the Panopticon is the universe and the

0:25:15.320 --> 0:25:19.080
<v Speaker 1>inspector in the tower, in the Inspector's lodge is God.

0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:22.320
<v Speaker 1>What kind of God do you do you end up believing?

0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:24.880
<v Speaker 1>And do you believe in a benevolent God who wants

0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:26.399
<v Speaker 1>to keep an eye on us and make sure that

0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:29.960
<v Speaker 1>we're safe in our comfy selves. Is it just a

0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:33.160
<v Speaker 1>complete benign god that is just sort of watching as

0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:36.720
<v Speaker 1>we either live comfortably or are horribly beaten in ourselves,

0:25:37.119 --> 0:25:39.040
<v Speaker 1>or is it an oppressive God who is there to

0:25:39.480 --> 0:25:41.800
<v Speaker 1>make sure that we stay in this grim, dirty cell

0:25:42.240 --> 0:25:46.359
<v Speaker 1>and uh and our only moved according to his her

0:25:46.520 --> 0:25:49.440
<v Speaker 1>its whims. So that's the problem, um, is that there's

0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:52.600
<v Speaker 1>no one god in the situation. Right. Depending on where

0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:54.440
<v Speaker 1>you live and that the kind of culture you live

0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:57.600
<v Speaker 1>in and the politics surrounding it, you could have a

0:25:57.600 --> 0:26:01.359
<v Speaker 1>benevolent god or you could have a vengeful god. All right,

0:26:01.440 --> 0:26:05.439
<v Speaker 1>there you go, the Panopticon in a nutshell. Um. Before

0:26:05.480 --> 0:26:07.760
<v Speaker 1>we close out here, I'm gonna call over the mail

0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:11.439
<v Speaker 1>bot and I'm gonna do a quick listener mail. All right,

0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:14.520
<v Speaker 1>This one comes to us from Peter cron And uh,

0:26:14.560 --> 0:26:17.440
<v Speaker 1>who's a long time listener uh and as always hitting

0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:19.560
<v Speaker 1>us up with some cool links on our Facebook page

0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:22.520
<v Speaker 1>and writing us with some cool thoughts. And here's just

0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:25.080
<v Speaker 1>some some wonderful musings that he presented to us. He says, Hey,

0:26:25.080 --> 0:26:27.639
<v Speaker 1>there got something I was thinking about today that maybe

0:26:27.640 --> 0:26:31.320
<v Speaker 1>either of you to have thought about. I'm wondering about consciousness.

0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:33.679
<v Speaker 1>I was reading an article by Carl Zimmer which had

0:26:33.720 --> 0:26:35.800
<v Speaker 1>me thinking about what it would be like if our

0:26:35.880 --> 0:26:39.480
<v Speaker 1>massively connected world developed a real, next level consciousness that

0:26:39.560 --> 0:26:43.000
<v Speaker 1>it's individual components were mostly unaware of. Would this super

0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:45.600
<v Speaker 1>mind start probing itself like we do with our own brains,

0:26:45.600 --> 0:26:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Would it at first be as clumsy as our own

0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:50.720
<v Speaker 1>experiments before we understood our own biology a bit better.

0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:53.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking that a probe might consist of something like

0:26:53.320 --> 0:26:56.480
<v Speaker 1>these microscopic fast financial dealings on Wall Street that we've

0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:59.960
<v Speaker 1>assumed we're traders using super conputers to manipulate the mark

0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:02.760
<v Speaker 1>could Some have said they could be experiments, but by

0:27:02.760 --> 0:27:05.800
<v Speaker 1>who How else might our new mind test its own boundaries.

0:27:06.040 --> 0:27:08.719
<v Speaker 1>It may just realize it's consciouness when other similar entities

0:27:08.720 --> 0:27:11.800
<v Speaker 1>arise from the ether of the Internet, or communicate somehow,

0:27:11.920 --> 0:27:15.119
<v Speaker 1>or it makes corss into taking to space exploration, drive

0:27:15.160 --> 0:27:18.560
<v Speaker 1>competition via heightened cybercrime, and espionage between countries based on

0:27:18.600 --> 0:27:21.840
<v Speaker 1>historical knowledge of how to fund these expensive ventures. I'm

0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:24.639
<v Speaker 1>sure there must be people already doing actual testing to

0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:27.480
<v Speaker 1>see if this thing is alive. Man, that just makes

0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:31.080
<v Speaker 1>me think of the whole conscious problem, like consciousness problem

0:27:31.160 --> 0:27:35.280
<v Speaker 1>that we've talked about, and how much more difficult that

0:27:35.280 --> 0:27:37.560
<v Speaker 1>would become. I think, right, if you're adding another layer

0:27:37.640 --> 0:27:40.800
<v Speaker 1>on a macro layer on top of our existing conundrum

0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:44.320
<v Speaker 1>of consciousness. Um, but maybe that's the consciousness that would

0:27:44.320 --> 0:27:47.240
<v Speaker 1>figure out our consciousness for us hopefully. Yeah, I mean,

0:27:47.320 --> 0:27:49.720
<v Speaker 1>you create this god you know, in a way it

0:27:49.880 --> 0:27:52.080
<v Speaker 1>ties in nicely with the idea of the panopticon. If

0:27:52.119 --> 0:27:54.400
<v Speaker 1>we it through something like this, if we were able

0:27:54.440 --> 0:27:57.600
<v Speaker 1>to either create or accidentally create or give birth to

0:27:57.640 --> 0:28:01.119
<v Speaker 1>a super consciousness that ends up more or less occupying

0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:04.720
<v Speaker 1>that center tower in the panopticon. Uh, you know, what

0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:06.879
<v Speaker 1>would the effects be and what would the nature of

0:28:06.960 --> 0:28:09.720
<v Speaker 1>that entity be? And how might it manipulate the prison

0:28:09.840 --> 0:28:13.399
<v Speaker 1>to maintain control or to maximize efficiency? And could it

0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:16.439
<v Speaker 1>be out at holographic eye in the sky for us

0:28:16.480 --> 0:28:20.840
<v Speaker 1>all just to look up in case upon Well, what

0:28:20.960 --> 0:28:23.320
<v Speaker 1>is that a reference to? I just think that it

0:28:23.400 --> 0:28:25.560
<v Speaker 1>should be if there's going to be the sort of

0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:28.679
<v Speaker 1>superconsciousness that it should be able to have these a

0:28:28.720 --> 0:28:32.040
<v Speaker 1>symbol of itself to be mount well, particularly if it's

0:28:32.040 --> 0:28:34.840
<v Speaker 1>going to truly occupy the place of a panopticon. Well,

0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:36.720
<v Speaker 1>that's like the eye of saurin right, and the Lord

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:39.840
<v Speaker 1>of the Rings that floats over the the tower and

0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:43.120
<v Speaker 1>more door that's right now, it's really the eye of Providence. Yeah. Really,

0:28:43.160 --> 0:28:47.320
<v Speaker 1>there's another excellent example of panopticon right there. All right, So, hey,

0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:48.600
<v Speaker 1>you want to reach out to us, you want to

0:28:48.600 --> 0:28:51.560
<v Speaker 1>talk to us about the panopticon. We would love to

0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:53.920
<v Speaker 1>hear from you. I mean specifically, what are your thoughts

0:28:53.920 --> 0:28:56.280
<v Speaker 1>on the idea that we're living in a panopticon? Now,

0:28:56.320 --> 0:28:58.560
<v Speaker 1>do you feel like this? Do you feel this sort

0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:01.920
<v Speaker 1>of fear and paranoia it you? You may be observed

0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:03.920
<v Speaker 1>at all times? And how does that affect your behavior?

0:29:03.960 --> 0:29:06.440
<v Speaker 1>How does that affect your happiness level? Let us know

0:29:06.480 --> 0:29:08.080
<v Speaker 1>we'd love to hear from you. You can find us

0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:10.720
<v Speaker 1>at all the usual places, specially stuffed able your mind

0:29:10.760 --> 0:29:13.440
<v Speaker 1>dot com. That's the mothership, that's where all the podcast

0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:16.479
<v Speaker 1>episodes are, the blog post, the videos, etcetera. You can

0:29:16.480 --> 0:29:20.640
<v Speaker 1>also find us on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, Google Plus, remind

0:29:20.680 --> 0:29:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Stuff show on YouTube. And hey, if any of you

0:29:23.240 --> 0:29:25.680
<v Speaker 1>are in Cuba or ben to Cuba and have actually

0:29:25.760 --> 0:29:28.640
<v Speaker 1>visited the prison we were talking about earlier, let us

0:29:28.640 --> 0:29:30.440
<v Speaker 1>know what that was like. I've seen the photos and

0:29:30.480 --> 0:29:33.600
<v Speaker 1>they're amazing, but nothing beats a personal visit to something

0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:35.520
<v Speaker 1>like that. And if you should be so bold as

0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:37.320
<v Speaker 1>to craft an email that may or may not be

0:29:37.440 --> 0:29:42.240
<v Speaker 1>read by others besides Robert myself, you can do so

0:29:42.400 --> 0:29:44.880
<v Speaker 1>by sending it to blow the mind at discovery dot

0:29:44.920 --> 0:29:50.880
<v Speaker 1>com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:58.880
<v Speaker 1>Does it, how stuff works, dot com