WEBVTT - Deconstructing Masculinity with Tony Porter: Part 1 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:07.160 I am a Yamla. I had a baby daddy relationship. 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:10.120 I spent time in a relationship with a married man. 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:14.560 I had to learn the skills and tools required to 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:19.840 make my relationships healthy, fulfilling and loving. Welcome to the 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:29.320 r Spot, a production of shandaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:39.680 Welcome to the Our Spot. I am Eyambla, delighted, honored, 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:44.640 and privileged to be your support, your facilitator, your host, 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:49.080 your teacher, sometime your adversary, because I want to step 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:51.760 right up in your world and take a look at 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:55.720 how you do relationships. And we come here to the 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.760 Our Spot to learn how to be better, how to 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:03.880 do better, how to create better relationships, all kinds of relationships. 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:07.560 I know we've talked about everything, but today we are 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:13.360 talking about something that is near and dear to my heart. Men. 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:21.840 And I'm sure every woman out there have a story 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:25.760 about a man, her father. What's your relationship like with 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:29.440 your father, your son? What's your relationship like with your son? 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:34.560 So a few months ago when we were doing I 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.399 was doing a class for men. I just started doing 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:42.000 some research around you know, what men are saying and 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:46.520 what men are doing and I bumped into a jewel, 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:49.720 a jewel, and then I realized I had this book 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.920 doing that research. They sent me over to a tent talk. 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.680 I went over to the tent Talk, which is rated 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:04.520 one of the top ten talks that every man should see. 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.880 And when I got over there, I fell in love. Okay, 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:12.200 I fell in love on the ted Talk. Okay, first 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:15.320 of all, because my guest today. 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:16.000 Is a New Yorker. 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:21.040 Okay, I come from the nation of Brooklyn, all right, 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.680 so I'll forgive him for living in between the Bronx 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:25.600 and Harlem. I don't even know what that is? 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:26.639 Is that? 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:28.760 But that's okay, boogie down. 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:30.760 You know. I got you, Haller, I got you. 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.400 But when I went and pulled the book out and 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.080 saw all the notes I had made in the book, 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.640 I fell in love all over again. My guest today 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:46.320 is Tony Porter, the author of Breaking out of the 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:54.120 Man Box, and he talks about men and allieship, men 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.200 being allies with women, men being allies with each other, 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:01.919 talks about fatherhood and doing his work with men and 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:06.520 breaking men out of the man Box. Tony said, helping 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:10.919 to create a world where all men and boys are 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:16.079 loving and respectful and all women, girls and those at 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:21.240 the margins of the margins are valued and safe. My 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:26.000 guest today Tony Porter, creator of The Man Box, a teacher, 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:32.920 an author, and activist working to advance gender and racial justice, 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:38.800 creating a more equitable society. A father work with the NFL. 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:40.440 Welcome Tony. 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.560 It's so good to be in your presence to just 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.640 on a privilege. Thank you for having us. I've been 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.680 excited since I've been told. I was told that I 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:51.920 was going to have an opportunity to be on your 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:53.800 show here, So thank you so much. 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:59.440 Well, thank you for agreeing to be here. A call 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:05.600 two men? Tell me about a call to men? What 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:07.839 is the call? What is the call? 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.360 We're a national organization and as you mentioned with birth 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:13.720 out of New York, I'm born in Halem, raised in 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:14.280 the Bronx. 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:15.560 I'll forgive you for that. 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:21.040 Yeah, But we started the organization about twenty three years ago, 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:24.800 both myself and the other co founder, Ted Bunch. I 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.320 was a social worker working in a substance use program 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:31.640 about thirty minutes north of the Bronx and town called Nayak. 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:33.919 I was in the hospital here at Nayak Hospital, and 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.000 the folks I served came from the boroughs. I met 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:41.640 Ted who was working at Safe Horizon running there. Back 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:44.800 in the day, they would be called batteries Intervention programs. 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.800 Today they may be called the Fender classes for men, 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:51.840 things of that nature. And I was volunteering at one 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.000 and him and I met, and I got to a 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:55.960 point in time when I realized, I said, you know, 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.080 this stuff that we're talking to men who are abusive about, 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.000 we really need to be sharing this information with all men, 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.520 because while all men are not abusive, and there's a 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.480 minority of men who are in comparison to the rest 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.120 of us, the problem is we're silent to the abuse. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.640 For me, the question became, what is it about we 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:20.880 as men collectively that an epidemic of violence against women 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.800 and girls can be happening on our watch? And it 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:28.240 is that epidemic portion. You know, organization of like the 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:31.520 Center for Disease Control have said that, you know, one 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.120 of the leading coups is an injury to women in 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.120 our country is men's violence against women. You know, we 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.800 know one out of six women will be raped. We 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.200 know every three to six seconds a women's a victim 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.679 of domestic violence. We know one out of three women 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.440 will experience some kind of assault in their life. One 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.839 out of two, out of one out of five women 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.279 during a four years in college, it's going to be 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:57.880 sexually assaulted. You know. We know trafficking is a multi 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:00.719 billion dollar industry and an average AI if a person 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.320 in traffic is a girl, it's thirteen fourteen years old. 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.520 Fifty percent somewhere between thirty and fifty percent of female 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:14.040 homicides our results of domestic violence, and we know women 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.839 are abusive too, but the numbers is no comparison. And 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.919 at the moment, I'm talking about men. So we know 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.560 there's an epidemic of violence against women and girls in 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:28.320 our society, you know, and I've been I was baffled 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:32.760 by that and the way that women love us, take 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:37.680 care of us, live in community with us, and then 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:40.560 have to protect themselves from us all at the same time, 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.599 and in many cases that love for us, women don't 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.400 even tell us the ways in which they're protecting themselves 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:50.360 from men on a day to day basis. I became 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:55.720 really invested in knowing more and understanding more about this issue, 0:06:55.839 --> 0:07:00.520 and the thing that was resonating for me most was again, 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:06.159 while men, most men are not abusive, we tolerated, was 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:11.200 silent to the abuse? And how do we then create 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:15.680 a critical mass of men that say no more, no more, 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:20.720 not on our watch. How do we normalize healthy manhood 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:25.880 in a way that it also includes decreasing and ending 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.960 this epidemic of violence against women and girls. So it 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:33.680 was that vision that led to starting a. 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:38.000 Call to men, and the call is to not be silent, 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:46.000 to not not ignore it. As you were speaking, I 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:50.760 was just wondering how many men even know or recognize 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:56.520 or understand those statistics that you that you offered, because 0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:59.520 you know, it's easy to think, well, it's just a 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.400 little over here, or it's just a little piece over there. 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:07.320 But when you look at the world and you know 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:12.320 one in five women being raped, a one in four 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.600 dieing of homicide in their own home. I know two 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:20.160 women whose husbands took their lives. 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:25.080 So again, most men are not violent. But was silent 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:26.000 to the violence? 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:28.760 Isn't that a violence, Tony? 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.400 Isn't it is the form of violence? Yes? And I'm 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.640 glad you said that, sister, because we have to expand 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:38.319 our definition of violence. We have to expand it. It 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:44.120 has been too narrow focused. Yeah, And you know, domestic 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:49.600 violence continues to be the number one call for police 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:54.320 departments across the nation. Right, no particular community or cultural 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.520 group you know, has a lock on this thing across 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.480 the nation. Its remains the highest and number one call 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:05.000 for the average police department in our country. We know 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:09.559 that the scariest moment for our daughters, which should be celebrated, 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:16.800 is when they go off to college. So our work 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:21.280 with men, when you speak about that call, we are 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.000 and the fact that, as you mentioned that most men don't 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:28.080 know those statistics, and that's very true because we're the 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:34.040 first generation of men really having a responsibility to take 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:38.600 a very active and intentional role in addressing these issues. Right, 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:41.880 so we don't even have a voice for it many 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.360 of us. A lot of our work is engaging men, 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:50.840 mobilizing them, but educating them and helping men to develop 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:55.240 a voice to speak to these issues because it's new 0:09:55.320 --> 0:10:00.720 to many of us, really helping men to understand their 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:06.120 influence and how they then use their influence to create 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:11.040 platform platforms, meaning what we choose to elevate to really 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:16.560 use their voice in this space. See, we believe firmly 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:20.360 that if women could end the violence on their own, 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:25.240 they would have already. We also that that only makes 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.800 sense to me. And while as a minority of men 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.040 in comparison to the rest of us here it's still 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.760 a lot of men, but it's a minority in comparison 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:37.760 to the rest of us. Somewhere twenty twenty five percent 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:41.160 of menace, so as a minority in comparison to the 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.840 rest of us, are perpetrating the violence. Now, sell those 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.480 men we love and care about, and we also have 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:53.400 to look into the history as to what led toward 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:58.040 them becoming who they are. That's also important in our work. 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.200 We know hurt people, heard of the people. We know 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:05.080 trauma breeds trauma from generation to generation. We actually know 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:11.240 that eighty percent of men who perpetrate violence against women 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:16.640 and girls who were victimized themselves as boys. Right, we 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:20.240 know that to be true. So while we can't count 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.520 on these men right now, when I go back and say, 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.240 if women could end the violence on their own, they 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.800 would have already, And then we have this smaller percentage 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:35.600 of men we really can't count on right now, but 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.920 we're not throwing them away right particularly in the black community. 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.360 I can't speak wholeheartedly for other community, but I could 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:47.520 speak about our we're not throwing men away. We have 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:51.680 to address this, but we're not throwing our men away. 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:55.720 But while we can't count on them at the moment, 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.559 you have this group of men that may be many 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.400 of your listener, the large majority of men or the 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.840 women listeners, the men they partner with, the large majority 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.560 of them don't perpetrate the violence. But we have to 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:14.240 really dig into the collective socialization of manhood. That's why 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.040 we got that little catchy term the man box. We're 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:22.200 talking about the collective socialization of manhood. What's in our 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:27.679 collective socialization that we don't know? Those stats that we have, 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:32.760 that we have this lack of interest in these type 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:36.440 of experiences women have because we were interested in the 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.480 women in our family. We love them, we care about them, 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:41.760 we do all we're supposed to do in those spaces. 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:46.160 But this general understanding of the experiences of women, we're 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.960 very lacking as men in that respect. And men who 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.240 are abusive at the end of the day, they really 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:56.440 rely on that because that contributes to our silence. So 0:12:56.600 --> 0:13:01.319 our job is collectively as men no longer be silent, 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:06.480 to become educated, to teach other boys, other ways to 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.199 be men, to redefine some of these aspects of manhood. 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.199 And you know, from a sports and knowledge, get off 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:17.040 the sidelines right, get in it, right, get in the mix, 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.679 and really find our place and our role and responsibility. 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.439 And that's a great part of the work of a 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:25.200 Called Men. 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.320 All Right, I want to talk about the man box, 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.360 but I want to back up for just a moment 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:35.160 because I hear the women out there screaming. Okay, So 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:38.280 you know, for many, many years I've worked with women, men, 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:45.000 mostly women, and my assignment this year, twenty twenty four, 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:51.520 what's the work with men? And okay, I'm going to 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:58.520 be obedient. So I've offered a variety of things for 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:04.360 them showing up, Tony. But my question is for me, 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.120 for everybody, what do we say, how do we let 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:12.080 men know those who are use as those who not 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.720 who are not, that there's work to be done, that 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.440 they have to do and they got to show up 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:18.160 to do the work. 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:22.800 How do we do that? That's a great question. And 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:27.000 over these years of doing this work, these twenty plus years, 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:32.320 we're constantly reevaluating that when we first started doing the 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.960 work of a Call to Men, we were just talking 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.000 about men's violence against women, and we got to figure 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:43.880 out how to disruptive stop it, et cetera. And that's 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:49.200 like you know, you know, that's like preaching to the choir. Right, 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:51.880 you have those five six men that always show up, 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.960 and that's it. See what we learn, what we learn 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:01.000 in this this thing we call the collective socialists of manhood, 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.960 also known as a man box. Men are taught to 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:09.080 define what it means to be a man by distancing 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.600 ourselves from the experience of women and girls. Doesn't mean 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:14.560 we don't care about the women and girls in our 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.920 circles and our family, et cetera. Of course we do. 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:19.520 But we define what it means to be a man 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:23.080 by distancing ourselves from what we perceive to be the 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:28.680 experience of women and girls. Right. Also, we're not taught 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.320 to be our authentic selves as men. This man box 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.480 really forces us to be a role self rol e 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:42.160 instead of our whole self whl Right. And so when 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:47.360 you take this lack of interest we then define then 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.360 as a result, you have distancing and you take this 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:54.960 inability to be your authentic selves. Right, It could be 0:15:55.160 --> 0:16:01.360 challenging to get us to join certain spaces, right, even 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:05.640 when you talk about like a healing space. For most 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.960 of us, we've been taught ain't nothing wrong with me, 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:13.360 that's right, I can't talk about I can't talk about see. 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:19.640 A big part of this man box is men are 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:26.920 taught that men are strong, dominating, women are soft, gentle, 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.880 and weak. Yes, that's in the teaching. We're then taught 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.720 to define what it means to be a man by 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:36.960 distancing ourselves from the experience of women and girls. So 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:41.040 by virtue of distancing ourselves, we as men don't admit 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.480 it to weakness much at all. The word weak is 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:48.280 not even in our vocabulary. Even when feeling weak, we 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.440 come up with other ways of saying that, I'm a 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.600 little tired, and I'm a little stressed. I'm not feeling 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.280 too good today, I'm a little wore out on burnt. 0:16:55.440 --> 0:17:00.320 We never use the word weak in association with ourselves. 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:06.320 Now you couple that with being taught that asking for 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:12.720 help is a sign of weakness. Now, just mathematically speaking, 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.560 we find ourselves as men. We don't ask for help, 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.560 we don't offer help far to offer, and we don't 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:26.359 accept help. Right, and then it's amenability to ask for, offer, 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:30.840 or accept help is healing us as men. So when 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.720 you talk about healing circles and those kinds of spaces, 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:39.280 they are not attractive to us because they lean into 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:45.359 that space of help, and we resist anything in many 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:50.320 cases that look like help because then it starts to 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:54.920 look having us look or believing that we're weak. And 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:59.520 if we're weak and that distancing, we're closing up that gap. 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.040 You feel the way I'm coming from. All of that 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.440 we run from as men. 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:10.440 Absolutely. One of the brothers that I worked with, he said, Iyamla, 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:15.240 vulnerability and inadequacy are chrystonite to a man. 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:20.639 Well, yeah, we don't do vulnerability right, and vulnerability is 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.159 risk taking in many respects, and it's risk taking that 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.120 really leads toward accomplishment, even when you're talking about healings. 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.800 But we're taught to be in control as men, not 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:37.720 to be vulnerable, right. And you know, as I shared 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:43.080 with you, the impact is having on women in this 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:47.160 epidemic of violence is hurting us as men too. Yes, 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:51.320 absolutely we You know statistics tell us that six million 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:58.000 men go undiagnosed annually for depression and anxiety because we 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.000 don't ask for help or we try to cover it up. 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.240 We don't go to the doctor on a regular basis. 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:08.840 We don't practice preventative medicine. Again, this issue around asking 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.720 for the help. Men who are partnered, by the way, 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.159 are much more healthier than men who are not. And 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.280 it has very little to do with the man. It's 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:24.440 that partner that's constantly ensuring that he takes care of himself. 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:28.400 Right now, I go for a physical exam twice a year. 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:30.760 I see my doctor on a regular basis. But I 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.920 wasn't always that person. And as I get older, I'm 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:40.520 more invested. But my wife has been behind me all 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:44.800 these years. You know. Look, I got a vitamin box. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.520 That's one of those big old boxes. I don't even 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:52.160 know half of what I'm taking. I just do what 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.359 she tell me to do, and in some cases because 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.359 she's a student of it, you know. And so I 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:04.000 noticed the true that personally and otherwise, that men who 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:09.879 are partner have a tendency to be healthier, and a 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.040 lot of that has to do with the person in 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.680 their lives. They even tell us that, you know, not 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.760 only does that person in our lives insist upon us 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:23.000 going to the doctor and all of that, but even 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:27.480 when at the doctor's office, they asked the questions they 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.680 have to because we will not tell We'll be right 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.240 in the doctor's office because we came for one issue, 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.000 but we're not going to tell them about that pain 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.080 that's been nagging us and decide that we will literally 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:44.040 this this really you know, we can laugh at it. 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.600 I've seen things every now and then on social media 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:52.160 making fun of men, but seriously thinking when we think 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:56.720 about it, very seriously and critically, you're in the doctor's 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.720 office to address one issue, and you've been having this 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:03.800 nagging pain in your side for weeks, and you leave 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:08.280 that doctor's office and don't mention that you know, there's 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.880 something about that that really has to be addressed amongst 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.760 us as men. And that's this issue of health, the 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:20.159 inability to ask for help. So when you talk about 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:25.040 a mental health crisis amongst men, right, this inability to 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:29.600 ask to help. Men complete suicide three and a half 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:34.600 to four times that the rate of women. Women live five, six, seven, 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:40.600 eight years longer than men on average. So this whole 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:45.280 issue of really addressing Now we've been socialized to define 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:50.399 what it means to be a man. We have a 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:55.080 tendency to call the men to say by addressing this 0:21:55.359 --> 0:22:00.520 disease issues, we will increase healthy, respectful manhoods. And in 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:05.320 that increasing of healthy respectful man we will also decrease 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:08.719 this epidemic of violence against women in the girl. It's 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:11.920 a win all all the way. 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.840 Around, and we'll talk about that when we come back. 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:23.399 Welcome back to the R spot. 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:27.000 Let me ask you a question. 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:31.480 You talk about the socialization of men. How do mothers 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:38.760 play a role in that deficit, dysfunctional socialization of men? 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:42.640 How do mothers play a role and how do fathers. 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:45.240 Play a role. Well, there are three aspects of manhood 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:48.680 that we intentionally address at a call. The men that 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:52.400 we feel contribute greatly to the socialization that we want 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:57.120 to challenge and change. As men, we're taught to have 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:01.520 less value in women, right, And it's all collectively speaking, 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:05.040 And this is not about individual men. There are individual 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:08.080 men that will act and operate differently, but what we 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:11.200 do know this is the collective experience of men. And 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:15.640 even those individual men that act and do differently, they 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:20.880 understand this collective socialization as well. In this collective socialization, 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:25.040 we're taught to have less value in women, right, Which 0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:27.200 is why the easiest way to tell the boy he's 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:29.680 not playing up the standards in sports? Is it telling 0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:32.520 me he's playing like a girl? Oh my god? And 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:36.760 he will immediately try hard. Why because when you tell 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:38.920 him he's playing like a girl, you are telling him 0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:41.720 he's in this place of less value and he needs 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:44.440 to get out of there. And that's why it works, right, 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:49.240 because we're taught that women and girls are less value 0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:52.480 than men. We work with coaches all the time to 0:23:52.600 --> 0:23:57.760 help them to learn other ways to motivate boys. Right 0:23:57.880 --> 0:23:59.960 Because coach, every time you tell the boy he's playing 0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:04.400 like a girl, what are you in essensaning about girls? Right? 0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:07.320 So you got to think about the language you're using. 0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:12.160 But the reason why coaches use that language is because 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:16.440 collectively speaking, we're taught to have less value in women 0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:20.440 and girls. So less value is one aspect of socialization 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:23.679 we put a lot of tension on. Another aspect is 0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:28.000 the issue of women as the property of men. While 0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:30.520 we know that there was a time that was true, 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:34.560 it's no longer true today, but it's tolerated throughout our community. 0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:38.600 It is also why domestic violence flourishes. The issue of 0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:41.800 women as the property of men. Third area that we 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:45.080 put a lot of attention on is the socialization of 0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:49.840 women as objects, particularly sexual objects, which is why we 0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:54.400 unfortunately still live in a rape culture. Those three aspects 0:24:54.440 --> 0:24:57.080 of the collective socialization of manner and if you put 0:24:57.080 --> 0:25:02.199 them in an equation less value us property, thus objectification, 0:25:02.800 --> 0:25:06.239 it equals violence against women, right, this whole thing. If 0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:09.560 you couple that with as I talked about men not 0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:13.000 having permission to be their authentic self finding manhood by 0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:16.080 distancing ourselves from the experience of women and girls, we 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:21.280 live are still in the state of a binary heteroonormative 0:25:21.320 --> 0:25:24.560 as far as our society is concerned, not a lot 0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:29.119 of room for self expression as it relates to gender 0:25:29.240 --> 0:25:32.960 or sexuality. All of this is part of this collective 0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:38.320 socialization in a male dominating society which we still live in. 0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:41.560 Many men are challenged by the notion that is a 0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:45.879 male dominating society, Well, it is you will find women 0:25:46.000 --> 0:25:49.719 as men. We all have women who are authorities in 0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:52.480 our lives. Right, we have a woman right now running 0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:55.600 for president in the United States. We do know women 0:25:55.720 --> 0:26:00.240 are in leadership. But when we say a male dominating society, 0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:03.200 if you put all the men in our country on 0:26:03.200 --> 0:26:06.040 one side of the room and all the women in 0:26:06.080 --> 0:26:08.600 our country on the other side of the room. It 0:26:08.760 --> 0:26:12.480 then becomes very clear that men run control and dominate 0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:18.320 this nation. Now, women who are raising sons or boys, 0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:23.840 they're raising sons and boys based on what they've been taught. 0:26:24.960 --> 0:26:30.399 That is important in respect to men. So what we 0:26:30.640 --> 0:26:35.159 as men respect is what women will raise their sons 0:26:35.240 --> 0:26:42.600 to be right, So whatever we respect as men collectively speaking, 0:26:43.040 --> 0:26:45.800 And you're raising a son and you want him to 0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:49.920 live in concert with men, to be respected and appreciated 0:26:49.960 --> 0:26:54.880 by men, you're going to teach him what men say 0:26:54.920 --> 0:26:58.119 he needs to know. Now as men, and I've been 0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:00.640