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Speaker 1: Insider to hear these programs and many more truly thought

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Speaker 1: provoking shows from Coast to Coast. Now here's a highlight

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Speaker 1: from Coast to Coast AM on iHeart Radio and welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Coast to Coast George Norri with you. Ross

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Speaker 1: Rosenberg is with us. Has been a psycho therapist since

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Speaker 1: and as an international speaker, author, professional trainer. He's considered

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Speaker 1: an expert in the fields of codependency, narcissism, gas lighting.

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Speaker 1: Will tell you what that means. Ross owns the Clinical

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Speaker 1: Care Consultants, which is a multilocation in the Chica Go

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Speaker 1: suburbs of counseling Centers and Self Love Recovery Institute, which

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Speaker 1: is an educational company promoting personal and professional development. Fascinating work. Ross,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the program. Well, George, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for having me on and staying up so late to

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Speaker 1: be with us. I'm impressed. Well so is my wife. Alright, great.

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Speaker 1: Gas Lighting is a phrase that I'm beginning to hear

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Speaker 1: a lot, and it has to do with somebody who's

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Speaker 1: a manipulator. Tell me a little bit more about that,

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Speaker 1: because that's important to tonight. Gas Lighting comes from this

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Speaker 1: movie in the forties with Charles Borrier and and um,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of lingered in our society and never

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Speaker 1: really caught on until the politics of the last four years.

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Speaker 1: Gas Lighting is when a person who has sociopathic or

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Speaker 1: or psychopathic tendencies purposefully manipulates a person into believing they

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Speaker 1: have a problem that never existed, manipulating the environment to

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Speaker 1: prove to them that they have this problem, and once

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Speaker 1: they finally they fully accepted they are if they fall

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Speaker 1: within their control, it's it's a scurge as that's impacting

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Speaker 1: so many millions of people globally and and even in

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Speaker 1: our political system. People don't even know that these ideas

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Speaker 1: that have been implanted in their head are not theirs

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Speaker 1: and follow under the predatory control of these of these

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Speaker 1: despicable pathological narcissists. What these people rush, well that these

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Speaker 1: pathological narcissists who have the you know who are sociopaths.

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Speaker 1: They come from backgrounds where they were born into families

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Speaker 1: that destroyed their capacity to have empathy. So you think

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Speaker 1: about what creates a criminal, it's it's during the deformative

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Speaker 1: years there they were crushed psychologic So they come into

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Speaker 1: adulthood and all they care about is getting their own needs.

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Speaker 1: To them, it's better to be the bug instead of

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Speaker 1: on the windshield. They will do anything to get what

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Speaker 1: they need, even if it's at the cost of hurting people.

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Speaker 1: And without empathy, they don't have that internal what we

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Speaker 1: say in the psychological field, they don't have that cognitive

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Speaker 1: dissonance and internal unease that maybe perhaps they're doing something wrong.

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Speaker 1: How can you tell, uh, you know, the average person,

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Speaker 1: how can they tell that they're dealing with somebody like

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Speaker 1: this because the very coy aren't I yes, and and

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Speaker 1: and In my book The Human Magnet Syndrome, I explain

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Speaker 1: that gas lighters like pedophiles, or I should say gas

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Speaker 1: lighters like people who prey upon younger children. They look

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Speaker 1: for the weak ones. So gas lighters require a person

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Speaker 1: who's codependent, a person who was raised to be selfless,

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Speaker 1: to be altruistic, to always believe people even so they are.

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Speaker 1: They seek that person who is susceptible to their manipulation.

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Speaker 1: It's not a coincidence. Gas lighters cannot fulfill their control

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Speaker 1: destiny with the average healthy person. They need a certain

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Speaker 1: person who lacks psychological strength or has really low self esteem.

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Speaker 1: So as much as I can tell you about what

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Speaker 1: are the red and I will what are the red

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Speaker 1: flags for a gas lighter and how do you find them?

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Speaker 1: They find their victims. Any person who has been gas

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Speaker 1: lit comes from a background where they have already been

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Speaker 1: beaten down. They've already been any any self esteem or

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Speaker 1: any feeling that their intuition is correct has been surgically

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Speaker 1: removed from them, and gas lighters can spot them, they

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Speaker 1: can sniff them out, and that's where the human magnetsenter

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Speaker 1: comes to bear. The narcissists need the code dependent, and

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Speaker 1: the codependent needs the narcissists like a dancing couple without

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Speaker 1: there it's almost like a parasite host on a host. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like that. But that in the part that I

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Speaker 1: emphasize in my book is the codependent actually feels like

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Speaker 1: they're getting something from the narcissist, and that's why they

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Speaker 1: fall prey to these translating monsters. They feel good about it,

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Speaker 1: absolutely it so to understand the human magnisiner misunderstand that

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Speaker 1: when codependents meet narcissists, they fall in love with them,

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Speaker 1: they experienced joy and and it's such wonderful soulmate crowd. Really,

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Speaker 1: how long does that continue? It continues until the narcissist

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Speaker 1: comes out of their shell, their their their masks is

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Speaker 1: taken off. And at that time the codependent, by their

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Speaker 1: very nature, because of their personality, their weakness or low

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Speaker 1: self esteemed, their lack of experience and setting boundaries, they

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Speaker 1: are trapped. And then when they are trapped, they make

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Speaker 1: the decision that they've known their whole life. And every

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Speaker 1: codependent will tell you is why fights something Because it's

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Speaker 1: better to be in a relationship than to be alone.

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Speaker 1: And that combination that what I call the metaphorical dance

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Speaker 1: partnership that the leader needs the followers. They both are

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Speaker 1: getting something from it. And as much as as much

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Speaker 1: as I can tell your listeners and I will look

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Speaker 1: out for these traits, you also have to look out

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Speaker 1: for yourself because if you are suffering from horrible self

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Speaker 1: esteem and you have no self love and you and

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Speaker 1: you fit, you know this codependent description that's going to

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Speaker 1: get you at the end. It's not the guy who's

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Speaker 1: going to trick you. Because to a healthy person, George,

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Speaker 1: that not only do these monsters not even trying to

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Speaker 1: connect to or manipulate healthy people, they're afraid of them.

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Speaker 1: They can smell them. Who is what is a healthy person?

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Speaker 1: These days? We'll see I've always had this definition, and

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Speaker 1: you know, being in the psychotherapy field thirty one years

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Speaker 1: and having a few years on the side of the couch.

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Speaker 1: Healthy is someone who has problems normal and healthy as

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Speaker 1: a person who has problems who has internal resources to

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Speaker 1: solve them or seeks external resources, whether it's a rabbi,

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Speaker 1: a priest, a therapist. To me, that is healthy where

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Speaker 1: you love yourself and respect yourself enough to know, hey,

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Speaker 1: this really sucks. I don't like what's going on in

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Speaker 1: my life. I need help. I gotta fix it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's that is the definition help. Because I don't believe.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I'm jaded. I don't believe that people there's people

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Speaker 1: that don't have problems. I think that's everybody does. We're humans, right,

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Speaker 1: and to me, to me, that's a red flag. Someone

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Speaker 1: someone's hiding something interesting. Now the person who is the

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Speaker 1: manipulated one, the person who gets manipulated by this narcissist,

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Speaker 1: to this, this gas lighter, are they weak? Generally? They

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Speaker 1: are weak. See to understand it. Codependent is understand they

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Speaker 1: just don't happen because of their personality. These people, just

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Speaker 1: like the narcissists, they come from families that have created

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Speaker 1: this psychopathology, this mental health problem. So they are by

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Speaker 1: nature afraid of being alone. They are terrified of loneliness.

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Speaker 1: They have so much shame and and they're conscious of it.

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Speaker 1: And so when they need someone to feel good about themselves,

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Speaker 1: so when they fall in love with the beautiful, charming,

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Speaker 1: seductive narcissist or the bold, funny woman, right, well absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, man, they feel like they hit

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Speaker 1: the jackpot they had and they don't see a narcissist like,

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Speaker 1: oh I'm a I'm a poor, pathetic codependent I'll take

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Speaker 1: the narcissists. Now, they think of that handsome, edgy, bold,

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Speaker 1: charismatic man or woman, and they think, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I've met my soul mate. And conversely, the patholostical narcissists

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Speaker 1: find someone that they can talk about their problems all night.

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Speaker 1: They can go on a date and talk for an

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Speaker 1: hour and a half straight, not be interrupted, talk about

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Speaker 1: their three failed marriages, why they won't pay your child support,

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Speaker 1: and that person across the table from them grabs her hand,

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Speaker 1: cries and says, oh my gosh, I feel so bad

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Speaker 1: for you. It's like they it's like the two are

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Speaker 1: matched so perfectly, and that's the human magnet syndrome, that's

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Speaker 1: the draw that brings them together. But if you are

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Speaker 1: the gas lighting type of narcissists, because not all narcissists

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Speaker 1: are gas lighters, that's the target you want. You are

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Speaker 1: looking for that. And and generally, let's say out of

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Speaker 1: ten people, what percent would be the narcissist or the

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Speaker 1: sociopath or the gas lighter. Well, they say, statistics are

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Speaker 1: hard to compile when it comes to narcissists. For one

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Speaker 1: reason is narcissists don't know they're narcissistic to they do

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Speaker 1: not no, no. The part part of the diagnosis is

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Speaker 1: for narcissistic personality disorder or what we call the sociopath.

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Speaker 1: The diagnosis is an antisocial personal disorder. Because you know,

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Speaker 1: we in the field, we actually have to abide by diagnostic.

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Speaker 1: It means that they're not outgoing. No, they don't know

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Speaker 1: that there's anything wrong with them. They tend to externalize

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Speaker 1: all the problems. If something bad happens, they see it

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Speaker 1: in other people, they blame everybody else's blame and it's

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Speaker 1: called projection. They put they put onto others what they

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Speaker 1: can't accept in themselves. So if a narcissist meets another narcissist,

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Speaker 1: they will like be mad because that person is selfish

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Speaker 1: and self They hate each other right because yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: funny because they're talking about themselves and they don't even

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Speaker 1: know it. And so it's so easy to spot if

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Speaker 1: you're mentally healthy. And again according to my normal mental

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Speaker 1: healthy definition, it's so easy to spot because they're so

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Speaker 1: broken and need another broken person to feel normal. I want,

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Speaker 1: I want to get a better picture of this if

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Speaker 1: we can ross so kind of give us, give us

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Speaker 1: a story or or an example, first of all, of

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Speaker 1: the narcissist, a stick person, or the gas lighter. Absolutely so. Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, all gas lighters are what I call

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Speaker 1: pathological narcissists that have a disorder that's either a narcissistic

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Speaker 1: personality disorder or antisocial personal disorder, which most people know

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Speaker 1: as sociopath They are um, they lack empathy. They are

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Speaker 1: very selfish, They are entitled. They believe that their needs

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Speaker 1: supersede everyone else's. They have this grandiose belief in themselves.

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Speaker 1: In other words, they they sincerely believe that they are

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Speaker 1: bigger and better than they really are. And and it's

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Speaker 1: a distorted sense of self. They they are pushy, they

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Speaker 1: can be arrogant, they can be vain. So and so

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Speaker 1: this is what I would call your standard, run of

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Speaker 1: the mill narcissists. The gas lighter is that narcissist. But

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Speaker 1: now you have to add what sociopathy. You have to

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Speaker 1: add um, not having a conscience, not having empathy, not

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Speaker 1: not feeling at all bad at hurting someone. They have

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Speaker 1: to be not only tune out, but having no connection

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Speaker 1: because they hurt someone so badly that having any empathy

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Speaker 1: would disrupt them. So so I'll think of one. I

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Speaker 1: have a client who's who's a husband was a a

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Speaker 1: medical doctor. Husband was a medical doctor, and she was

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Speaker 1: twenty one and she came from the family that was

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Speaker 1: so typical of codependence, but we're talking about narcissists, and

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Speaker 1: he immediately took control of the family, and she felt

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Speaker 1: she was fulfilling her dream. She found a man, she

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Speaker 1: found the doctor, she got a house, and he immediately

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Speaker 1: started arranging not only the family in her life. She

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Speaker 1: found herself pregnant once twice, three times, and little by

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Speaker 1: little he would barrate her and tell her what is

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Speaker 1: wrong with her. He would manipulate her or the environment

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Speaker 1: or other people to prove that she was in socially,

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Speaker 1: that her anxiety was out of control. She already had

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Speaker 1: anxiety because she had low self esteemed well, not only

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Speaker 1: the magnified he created. He manipulated the environment to prove

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Speaker 1: to her that she had something that she didn't have.

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Speaker 1: So at the end of the night, he would say, wow,

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Speaker 1: you're really anxious, and you know, people came up to

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Speaker 1: me and asked me if you're okay, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: you should get some help. Yes, that's that they are.

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Speaker 1: They are manipulating the environment systematically in order to implant

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Speaker 1: a narrative, and a narrative is a story about yourself.

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Speaker 1: They're more than liars. They are their sociopaths that that

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Speaker 1: they had a plan to hurt, dominate, and destroy someone's

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Speaker 1: individual psychological spirit for the purpose of control and domination.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do they isn't exciting to them to do this?

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Speaker 1: Why do they do this? They have a need for it, right? Um?

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Speaker 1: My experience is that the gas laders don't do it

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Speaker 1: because of excitement. Um, it is because they have this

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Speaker 1: need to feel safe and control in a world that

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Speaker 1: doesn't love them, in a world that hates them. So

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Speaker 1: they have to figure out a way to exist in

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Speaker 1: their own little bubble, secret bubble, feeling like they are

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Speaker 1: on top of the world in which they are godlike,

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Speaker 1: where they can control people and make people love and

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Speaker 1: admire them and keep them trapped without outside interference. If

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Speaker 1: one of these people comes to you for help, how

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Speaker 1: do you get them out of this situation? I don't

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Speaker 1: And it's not easy, is it? Well, well, it's impossible.

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Speaker 1: Research shows that it's virtually impossible to have successful outcomes

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Speaker 1: for people who are sociopath You can't help someone who

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Speaker 1: not only doesn't think they have a problem, but who

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel bad about a problem. You have to have

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Speaker 1: some form of dissonance in your thinking. You have to

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Speaker 1: have guilt, sadness, regret. Therapy relies on the fundamental psychological

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Speaker 1: function of feeling bad about what's going on in your

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Speaker 1: life for yourself. If you if you are a sociopath,

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Speaker 1: gas lighter, or extreme narcissist, you are only feeling bad

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Speaker 1: if someone's catching you. You are feeling so satisfied and

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Speaker 1: fulfilled because you have created your own little bubble where

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Speaker 1: you have your little zombie slave who who has been

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Speaker 1: inculcated or manipulated to believe there's someone else and they

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Speaker 1: don't even know it. You've cut off their relationships with others.

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Speaker 1: You've sometimes cut them off from working. You've interfered with

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Speaker 1: their ability to get help from psychologists. You've you've interfered

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Speaker 1: with the relationships with families. You have I sellated them

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Speaker 1: so perfectly and masterfully that you are guaranteed to maintain

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Speaker 1: this godlike, powerful persona that makes you feel good. And

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Speaker 1: listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coast

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Speaker 1: am dot com for more