1 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, how many dimensions do you have? More than 2 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: i'd like these days? Too many late night snacks from 3 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: the fourth dimension? Yeah, or from the fridge dimension. Actually, yeah, 4 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: that's like its own mini universe of deliciousness where I'm 5 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: both the master and the slave. But aside from how 6 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: many cookies are involved, how do you know you're a 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 1: three dimensional being? I mean, I don't know. The world 8 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: seems to be three dimensions. Yeah, but so does the 9 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: stuff on my TV. But that's just like how your 10 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: brain perceives it, all right. Well, then, if I'm just 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: like in a two dimensional matrix, does that mean I 12 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: can eat as many snacks as I want? Uh? Well, 13 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: technically as if you're in a to the world, you 14 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: can eat all the two these snacks you want and 15 00:00:52,240 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: gain zero weight. I'll be right back. Hi. I'm Organ. 16 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: I'm a cartoonist and the creator of PhD comics. Hi, 17 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle of physicist and a professor 18 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: at you see Irvine, and I enjoy any dimension snack really, 19 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: even a one dimensional snack. I guess spaghetti is a 20 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: one dimensional snack technically, especially the spaghettini or the angel hair. Yeah, exactly. 21 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: I don't discriminate. I'm not a dimensionist. I see all 22 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: dimensions as equal. So welcome for a podcast Daniel and 23 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of My Heart Radio 24 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: in which we take a part the universe into its 25 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: various dimensions, the ones that are understood and the ones 26 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: that remain puzzling. We take your mind on the journey 27 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: into all of those dimensions, trying to understand what we 28 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: do know about the universe and what we don't. We 29 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: range from the smallest of questions about the smallest of 30 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: things and their color and shape and whether they spin, 31 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: all the way out to the biggest and deepest and 32 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: broadest of questions about the nature of the human context 33 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: in this crazy and beautiful cosmos. Because it is a 34 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: pretty wild universe, and we like to take you on 35 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: the up and the down, on the front and the back, 36 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: and the left and the right, and the and the 37 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: good and the bad jokes as well. That's right. There's 38 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: a lot to explore in the universe, is what I'm saying. 39 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,119 Speaker 1: We spend the entire dimension of humor, all the way 40 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: from puns to dad jokes. Is there anything else? Aren't 41 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: this in the same access or the same you know. Point, 42 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: is there such a thing as a non silly death. 43 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: My teenagers say that any joke I make is a 44 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: dad joke. Oh, I see, you have no death, according 45 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: to them. That's right, it's all one dimension. There's so humor, 46 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: seems we one dimensional two because you're pretty funny, Daniel. 47 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: For a physicist, I guess that's a two dimensional compliment 48 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: right there. Projected onto the surface of physicists, you'll look 49 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: pretty funny. But yeah, we like to explore all the 50 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: big questions about the universe, what's real and possibly what's 51 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: not real in this universe because this universe seems to 52 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: have a lot of super crisis in store for us. 53 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: That's right, We as an intelligent species have been digging 54 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: into the question of the nature of reality, What is 55 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: actually out there and is it different from what we perceive. 56 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: We would like to know something true, something universal about 57 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: the universe, not just what humans think it might be, 58 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: but something we could like compare notes with aliens about right, 59 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: But what if the aliens are since they're in the 60 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: same universe, what if they're just as fooled as we 61 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: are by this crazy kind of tricks. Their universe we 62 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: live in. I believe in the wisdom of the crowd. 63 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: You know, if you average over infinite intelligent races, somebody 64 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: out there has kind of figured out what the universe 65 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: is actually like. I don't like the idea that we've 66 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: all been fooled in just the same way. And you 67 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: know that from the Internet. I guess it's a good 68 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: test bed for that idea. Yeah. Absolutely, On the Internet 69 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: you can find every possible opinion with evidence, without evidence, 70 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter. You can find all the dimensions there, 71 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: you certainly can. But our goal on this podcast and 72 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: as a species is to unravel the fundamental nature of 73 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: the universe, to see it for what it is, and 74 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: to ask the most basic questions about what it's like 75 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: and its structure and its shape. Yeah, and sometimes these 76 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: questions sort of make you uncomfortable, maybe Daniel as a physicist, 77 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: because you know, we're sort of questioning how real is 78 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: real or how real are the things that physicists think 79 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: are real. That doesn't make me uncomfortable. That makes me excited. 80 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: When we are on the verge of like revealing that 81 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: the universe is totally different from the way that we 82 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: thought it was. That we're all just you know, projections 83 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: on the wall of Plato's cave. That's exciting because it 84 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: means we're gonna learn something. We're going to emerge from 85 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: like some shroud of ignorance and actually understand something deep 86 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: and true about the universe, even if it up ends 87 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: everything we thought we knew and changes the entire context 88 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: of our existence. That's sort of the goal of physics. 89 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just projecting here, Daniel. It makes me a 90 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: little bit uncomfortable to think that everything I know is 91 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: to be real is not actually real. Well, I'm pretty 92 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: sure that's true. Well, they were gonna be asking a 93 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: one one sort of version of this question, is the 94 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: universe real? And it has to do with sort of 95 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: like the dimensionality of the universe and how many dimensions 96 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: it actually has, and is it different than the number 97 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: of dimensions we feel and see and touch and can 98 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: feel ourselves in. That's right, And we're gonna use the 99 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: word dimension here, and we don't mean, you know, like 100 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: the alternate dimension where everything is made out of marshmallows, 101 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: or where aliens escape to as sort of a parallel universe. 102 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: You see that a lot in science fiction. What we 103 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: mean by dimension here really is the mathematical description of it, 104 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: meaning just like a direction of possible motion. And I've 105 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: always found it fascinating that our universe has three dimensions 106 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: or seems to have three dimensions, because you've got to 107 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: wonder like why three three is such a weird number. Yeah, 108 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: So to be on the program, we'll be asking the 109 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 1: question is the universe a hologram? Now? Daniel? Are you 110 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: sure we can't just talk about the marshmallow dimension where 111 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:03,679 Speaker 1: all all the gatings are. That sounds like a pretty 112 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: good podcast topic. Are the aliens made of marshmallows in 113 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: that dimension or that Do they just eat marshmallows? I 114 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: don't know. You tell me you're the one projecting this 115 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: image into my brain. Maybe they go hunting for marshmallows. 116 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: So the question is is the universe a hologram? Now? 117 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: This is a pretty interesting question. Are you saying, like 118 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: the whole universe where we live in is a hologram? 119 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: Like an illusion? Kind of? Yeah, that's sort of the 120 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: idea that maybe the universe doesn't actually have three dimensions. 121 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: Maybe it's actually just the projection in our minds or 122 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 1: in our experience of what's actually a two dimensional universe. 123 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: That's sort of like feels like three dimensions that we 124 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: can experience as if it was three dimensions, sort of 125 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: like a hologram. Although you know, it makes the universe 126 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: sound like a cheap trick and like one of those 127 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: baseball cards or those little tinfoil things you put on 128 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: dollar bills. Yeah, like by yourself universe sounds like a bargain. 129 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: But I love these kinds of questions because they go 130 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: to the very core of the nature of reality. You know, 131 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: if we are wrong about the number of dimensions of space, 132 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: what else are we wrong about? Maybe everything? And that 133 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: might make some people uncomfortable, but it makes me excited 134 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: because it means that there might be crazy, mind blowing 135 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: revelations about the very nature of reality around the corner. Yeah, 136 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: so this is a pretty tricky question. Is the universe 137 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: a hologram? And so, as usual, we were curious how 138 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: many people out there had thought about this question or 139 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: have an opinion on this question. So Daniel went out 140 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: there into the Internet to ask people is our universe 141 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: a hologram? So thank you people of the Internet for participating. 142 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: And if you are a person of the Internet and 143 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: you'd like to volunteer to answer random questions. Please, It's 144 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: very easy and fun and just takes a few minutes. 145 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: Right to us two questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. 146 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,679 Speaker 1: I think about it for a second. Do you think 147 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: the universe you live in is nothing but an illusion? 148 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: A hologram? Here's what people had to say. Sure, doesn't 149 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: seem like it a holograph, as I understand it is 150 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: just a trick of light. I don't know what hollow means. 151 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: I am part of the universe and I feel like 152 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: I have substance, And even if that's just a trick 153 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: of my brain and I am just an image, how 154 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: can a light based image create self awareness? So I'm 155 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: guessing no, it could be somebody else's dream. Um, yeah, 156 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: I think no. No, I don't know why. It sounds 157 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: like somebody gave up and said, well, it's a holograph, man, 158 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: and that's it. It's a holograph. But well, even if 159 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: it's a holograph, who made it? Why? And who's paying 160 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: for it? I'm not paying for that. I would say no, 161 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: because a holograph is a three D display of light. 162 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: So photos which are massless and as far as I 163 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: can see, stuff around me and reused myself. We have 164 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: mess so I find it very hard to imagine that 165 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: the universe is a holograph. Of course, of course the 166 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: universe is a holograph. No, I'm not sure if the 167 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: universe is a holograph or not. I have heard some 168 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: theory that maybe the universe is it's a two dimensional 169 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: image projected onto three dimensional space or something like that. 170 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: I have heard this theory, but it's been a long 171 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: time and I don't quite remember how it goes. Well. Technically, 172 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: a holograph, I think, is a written something that someone 173 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: has written in the earned hands. Or maybe the uniograph 174 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 1: universe is a holograph if you call God the writer 175 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: of the manuscript. I'm not sure there. Maybe from our 176 00:09:55,840 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: perspective on Earth, the universe actually is a holograph, for example, 177 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: with bends and refracts and reflects like in many different 178 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: directions depending on where you are in it a thort 179 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: of the holographic principle. I can't remember exactly what that is, 180 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: but I think it might be related to the modest 181 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: sin A conjecture, which is that we'll assuming the universe 182 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 1: is a d is in other words, that has negative curvature. 183 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: Then everything in the universe, all the information that is 184 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: important in the universe, can be represented on the surface 185 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: of a boundary surrounding the entire universe. All Right, some 186 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: pretty confident answers here. Some people were like, of course. 187 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: Some people were like, no, I don't think so. I 188 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: think what people said. It sounds very technical, Yeah, exactly. 189 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: And I also like the ones that focus on the 190 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: definition of a holograph M or a holograph or those 191 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: two things different a holograph and a hologram. Yeah, Confusingly, 192 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 1: the two things have almost nothing in common. Like, hologram 193 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: is what we're talking about. It's a trick of light 194 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: that it gives the impression of a three D volume 195 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: from a two D surface. You know, this is the 196 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: kind of thing you'll see on a baseball card or 197 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: on a dollar bill, etcetera. A holograph is actually just 198 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: like an essay written by one person in their own 199 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: handwriting what I know. And then holography is the study 200 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: of holograms, not the study of holographs. And the holographic 201 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 1: principle that we're gonna be talking about today, that the 202 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: universe might be a hologram is not the hologramic principle. 203 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: It's the holographic principle. Oh man. That's before we even 204 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: get to English units, right, because then you have to 205 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: talk about the holo pounds and the hollow ounces, and 206 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: then eventually you have to talk about the hollow deck, 207 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: which you know, and then we get into real nurse 208 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 1: territory exactly. This entire podcast has been nothing but an 209 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: exercise of the holo deck. None of this has been real. 210 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 1: Your whole life, we're all just you know, aiyes, in 211 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: your little cosplay here, Daniel. No, I thought I was 212 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: in your holo deck experience. I thought you were the 213 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: real I thought I thought you were what were both eyes? 214 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: Somebody over here better be real otherwise this whole thing 215 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: is a bad joke. It's holograms all the way down. 216 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: That's the real hologramic principle. So yeah, it seems to 217 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: have a lot of definitions, and so I guess let's 218 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: get down the business and let's lay it down for people, like, 219 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: what is the one that we're talking about today? We're 220 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: talking about holograms, right, and I guess what does that mean? 221 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: That's right, we're talking about holograms, which is part of 222 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: this idea of a holographic principle that the universe might 223 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: be a hologram. And so again what we mean by 224 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: a hologram is the projection of two dimensional surface into 225 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: a three dimensional space. And that sounds fancy and mathematical, 226 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: but really what we mean is something that looks like 227 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: it has volume, like it's three dimensions x, y and z, 228 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: but really there's only enough information for X and y 229 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: that you can take all the information and volume and 230 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: somehow encoded on a flat surface. And you might be 231 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: familiar with. One of these things. Is something you can 232 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: look at like a sheet of paper. As you change 233 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: your angle, the image changes, just as if you were 234 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: looking at something that had three dimensions. So we think 235 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: it has three dimensions, but really it's we're just looking 236 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: at a two D surface, which means that all of 237 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: that sort of three D information is sort of encoded 238 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: or or you know, written down in that too D 239 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: piece of paper somehow exactly, because a three D object, 240 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: when you look at it, you only ever see a 241 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: two D slice, right, you see one side of it, 242 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: or you see another side of it, or you see 243 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: another side of it. So a three D object has 244 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: all of those two D slices somehow encoded into it, right, 245 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: And so a hologram is a two D surface with 246 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: all that three D information encoded into it somehow, so 247 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: that when you look at it from different angles, you 248 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 1: see the right to D slice. So you're rain is like, oh, 249 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: that's a three D object, just sort of like in 250 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: Star Wars when Princess Leiah is projected out of R 251 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: two D two, right, it's not just she's on a screen. 252 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: It looks like she's there. And they have these all 253 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 1: over Star Wars all the time, so they're like confusingly 254 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: low tech, right, they're always like weird and flickery. Anyway, 255 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: Princess Leiah says, you know, help me, Obi one, you're 256 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: my only hope, And that's a hologram because it looks 257 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: like she's sort of taking up physical volume rather than 258 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: just printed onto a screen, right, and right now you're 259 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: my only hope, Daniel, because I'm a little bit confused 260 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: here because it gets tricky, right, because you're talking about 261 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: Princess Leab and so she's been projected into that three 262 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: D world, but we're looking at it on a flat 263 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: screen and then we're looking at it through two eyeballs, 264 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: which also kind of take two D pictures. So are 265 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: we talking about the sort of illusion of death or 266 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: are we talking about things having actual depth encoded in 267 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: a two D service. We're talking about having enough information 268 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: to describe of volume, but encoded on a two D surface. 269 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: So hologram is when you can describe something using only 270 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: two dimensions, but it has enough information to describe the 271 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: full three D volume. And that's not always possible, right, 272 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: It's not always possible to describe a three D object 273 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: in terms of a two D surface. It depends on 274 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: what you can do with that two D surface, Like 275 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: how do we make holograms? How do you have those 276 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: like baseball cards where it looks like the players moving 277 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: as you turn it. And they do that by adding 278 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: information to the two D surface, Like they have these 279 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: little ridges on the surface, so that when you look 280 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: at the image, you're seeing like a different part of 281 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: those ridges, and they have like different images on different 282 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: parts of those ridges. So they've done something to encode 283 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: add information to the two D surface so that you 284 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: have the whole three D thing actually printed down there 285 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: on two D. Right, Because they sort of like fool 286 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: your eyeballs into thinking it's three D, right, Like they 287 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: give one image to one eyeball and they give another 288 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: image to the other eyeball, and somehow you think it's 289 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: three D. But really it's all on a two D surface, 290 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: except that on that surface they sort of cleverly print 291 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: thing so that it somehow delivers different information to each eye. Yeah, 292 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: and different information to each eye gives you the illusion 293 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: of depth. But also I think it's crucial that as 294 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: your head turns in relation to the two D surface, 295 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: you see a very different image. Like if you just 296 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: have a picture printed on a flat piece of paper, 297 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: then as your head turns, you're seeing the same picture. 298 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: You're seeing it from a different angle, but you're seeing 299 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: the same actual information in a hologram. As your head 300 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: turns and you're looking at the two D surface from 301 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: a different angle, you're actually getting a different image. The 302 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: image you're seeing is changing, and just the same way 303 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: it would if it were a three D object and 304 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: you could like look behind it or look over its 305 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: shoulder or something, and you're revealing more information. That's the 306 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: experience that makes your mind think it's a three D object. Now, 307 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: how did those work really quickly? Do they do they 308 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: encode like the image from every possible angle or is 309 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: there something more to like? You know how they use 310 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: lasers and stuff like and special materials to sort of 311 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: encode that three D information. There's a lot of different 312 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: ways to do it. None of them are perfect. We 313 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: can't do a complete, perfect hologram yet in our universe. 314 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: You know, like those baseball cards, they have a little 315 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: bit of an angle there. It's obviously not a three 316 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,239 Speaker 1: D object. That's done by having these little ridges so 317 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: that when you look at it from a different angle, 318 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 1: you actually see a different image, sort of like those 319 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: billboards that change as you drive by them, because there's 320 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: actually like a bunch of different pictures printed at different angles. 321 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: And the more clever ones and more impressive ones use 322 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: interference tricks. They send multiple beams of light from every 323 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: point on the surface, and then where you are you 324 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: get a different kind of interference from those different beams, 325 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: and that's what creates the sort of illusion of three D. 326 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 1: The dependence on your angle comes from the interference effects. 327 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: All right, pretty cool, And then I guess the question is, 328 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: how could our universe be a hologram? Are you saying 329 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: that we're like maybe printed on its surface, is somewhere 330 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: with the ridges or do you think maybe we're you know, 331 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: what we think is the our three D universe is 332 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: actually printed on a surface somewhere, or maybe there are 333 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 1: everything one surface. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, that's 334 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: the idea that maybe our universe can be described the 335 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: three dimensions of our universe of space and time and 336 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: gravity can be described by information you could put onto 337 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: a two D surface. And so then that begs the question, like, well, 338 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: if our universe feels like it's three D but it's 339 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: equivalent to a two D universe, what's the real universe? 340 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: Is the real universe two dimensions with some weird extra 341 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 1: bits encoded onto that two dimensions? Or is it actually 342 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: three dimensions? You know which one is like physically fundamentally 343 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: the true universe and which one is like mathematical equivalence. Well, 344 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: I guess the question here would be we're actually like 345 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: a three D universe printed on a two D surface. 346 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: Then like, who which which of the dimensions is fake? 347 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Like, is up and 348 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: down phase? Then somehow it's encoded in the left and right, 349 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: front and back? Or how would that even like how worthy, 350 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: What do you do with the extra dimension or what 351 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: is Yeah, that's a great question. Well, you know, out 352 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 1: in the depths of space, of course, every direction is 353 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: the same. You could just pick a direction and it's 354 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: just as good as any other direction. So it's not 355 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: like up and down or left or right or back 356 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: and forth really have any meaning in terms of the universe. 357 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: So on that two D surface, it's not like two 358 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: of our space dimensions exist and the other one is 359 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: just deleted. It's some other kind of space. So like 360 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: take our three dimensions X, Y, and Z. They map 361 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: two two weird dimensions on that surface, called them I 362 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: don't know A and B, but they're not like physical 363 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: space dimensions the way we think about them. And then 364 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: there's something else going on on that surface that lets 365 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: you like encode Z, that lets you take that third 366 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: dimension and make sure that that information is not lost. 367 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: But I guess if that information is there, wouldn't it 368 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: basically be and other dimension or are you saying that 369 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: it's somehow encoded through some trick by the first two dimensions. No, 370 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: it's basically there, and so the information is fundamentally equivalent, 371 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 1: but it's like a different sort of structure, Like we're 372 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: talking about mapping our universe, which has three dimensions and 373 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: gravity and all this kind of stuff into like an 374 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: abstract space something which is like where we talk about 375 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: quantum field theory on that space and we talk about 376 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: the relationships between points on that two dimensional surface, and 377 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: so that has effectively three dimensions because it's two dimensions 378 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: plus some other weird piece of information in the quantum field. 379 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: There really are two different sort of visions of the universe. 380 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: One is you have three dimensional space and gravity and 381 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: everything moves along, and the other is that you have 382 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: a two dimensional space. But then on that space is 383 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: this quantum field which is capable of encoding a third dimension. 384 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: All right, sounds a bit technical, so let's dig into 385 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: the details of that. But first let's take a quick break. 386 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: All Right, we're wondering if the universe is all it 387 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: seems to be, or whether it's kind of inflated in 388 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: a way, whether it's it's fooling us into thinking there 389 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: it has three dimensions, but really you're saying it could 390 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: have two dimensions plus like a little pocket the value 391 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: or field that tells you that gives you that third 392 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: extra feeling of a third dimension. Yeah, and you know, 393 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: all of this goes into trying to understand what is 394 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: the nature of space itself, Like what is this thing 395 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: we call space? And I think that's really interesting and 396 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: like historically to think about how the ancient thinkers thought 397 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: about space, you know, Newton and Descartes and those folks 398 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: just thought about spaces like the backdrop of the universe. 399 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: It was absolute, it was fundamental. Obviously you have to 400 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: have space, and everywhere in the universe has to have space. 401 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: And more recently we've learned this space does weird things. 402 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: It bends and wiggles, it's shakes that expands, it does 403 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: all these crazy things. And now we're not even sure 404 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: what space is. We talked about it on a podcast 405 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: episode recently, whether it's possible to even have parts of 406 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: the universe that don't have space in them, you know, 407 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: a universe without space. So part of this just goes 408 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: to like trying to understand what is the nature of 409 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: this space, what are the rules of it? Is it 410 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: really three dimensions where all those three dimensions are equivalent? 411 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 1: Where is it actually two dimensions with one extra tricky 412 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 1: dimension that's making us feel like it's three dimensions, and 413 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: that's why these are I think are deep and important questions. 414 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: It's like, maybe we think we're in you know, X, 415 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: y and Z space, you know, front, back, top, down, left, right, 416 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: but really we're actually in like A B space, and 417 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: each point in A B space has a little special 418 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: C value that maybe somehow those three things combine give 419 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: us the feeling of X, Y and Z, but really 420 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: it's just A and B with a little extra cy. Yeah, 421 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: and that all motion, all actual physical motion, only occurs 422 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: along that surface, right, that A and B value. All right, 423 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: So um, let's get into why we would think that. 424 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: It sounds like a pretty crazy idea. I mean, if 425 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: I think about it, I'm pretty certain we are in 426 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: three D space. You know, I can move up and down, 427 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: left and right, front and back, and I can things 428 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 1: when I touched them, they feel like there's three dimensional 429 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: Why would we think it's not. For a long time, 430 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: we did think it was three D space, and that 431 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: felt pretty settled. Though. There are ideas about how the 432 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: universe might have more dimensions, you know, eleven or twenty six, 433 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: But this particular idea that the universe might be two 434 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: D instead of having more dimensions came from the craziest 435 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: thing in the universe, and so of course it came 436 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: from studying black holes. And you know how on the 437 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: Extreme Universe series, I'm what were saying, like, we look 438 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: at the extremes of the universe because it shows us 439 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: what's possible. It breaks the rules, it stretches them. That's 440 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: exactly what happened here. People were looking at black holes 441 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: and trying to understand, like what is on the inside 442 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: of a black hole? What's it like in there? And 443 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: some people have this crazy idea maybe it's not like anything. 444 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: Maybe there is no inside black hole. Maybe all there 445 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: is to the black hole is the event horizon. Maybe 446 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: black holes are actually just two dimensions. Yeah, we've had 447 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: episodes about what happens when you go inside of a 448 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: black hole and what they are, and I think it 449 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: is that like when something sort of goes towards a 450 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: black hole, because of the way it bends space and time, 451 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: it never actually goes in right, like it basically stops 452 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: at the surface forever. In a way, it depends on 453 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: who you ask, which is the tricky bit. So if 454 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: you are watching something fall into a black hole, then 455 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: as it gets closer and closer to the black hole, 456 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: space is curved more and more, and then there's more 457 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: and more gravitational time dilation, which is an effect where 458 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: time slows down where space is curved, and so the 459 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: closer you get to the black hole, the more time 460 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: slows down, and so you never actually reach it. If 461 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: to wait for time equals infinity to see something actually 462 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: fall into a black hole, that's if you're the person 463 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: on the outside watching right. If you're the person jumping 464 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: into the black hole, then you don't experience any of that. 465 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: And just like in relativity, your experience of time depends 466 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: on who you are, where you are, and how fast 467 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: you're going. And so in this case, you just fall 468 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: right in, you pass through the event horizon, you head 469 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: towards the singularity. And so people are wondering, like, what's 470 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: going on? How can everything be smeared on the outside 471 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: of the black hole and also be inside the black hole? 472 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: How is that possible? You're saying, it depends on who 473 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: you ask, right, Like to us on the outside and 474 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: far from a black hole, hopefully things gets mirrored on 475 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: the surface of the black hole the event horizon. But 476 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: you're saying to the person falling in. They just fall 477 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: right in, but at time infinity for us. Yeah, that's 478 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: exactly right. We see them fall in only a time 479 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: equals infinity. But they see themselves fall in, you know, 480 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: very normally and very naturally. And these two things contradict 481 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: each other, and so often in relativity you have people 482 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 1: having different accounts of the same situation and both being correct. 483 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: And that's possible in scenarios where there's like no causal 484 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: link between the events, they have a timelike relationship, for example. 485 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: But here it's hard to understand, you know, how the 486 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: black hole actually accumulates stuff, whether there are actually are 487 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: things inside the black hole. And it goes to this 488 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: question of like the black hole information, right, we talked 489 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: about how if you put something into a black hole, 490 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: then it's information is inside the black hole, like you 491 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: throw a banana in there. Where does its energy go, 492 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: Where does this entropy go, where does its quantum information go? 493 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: And people are trying to understand, like what happens when 494 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: these black holes evaporate. Is everything actually on the surface 495 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: of the black hole and so it never really fell in, 496 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: and so it's information wasn't lost or was it inside 497 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,959 Speaker 1: the black hole actually? And when the black hole evaporates, 498 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: its information is somehow lost, So it's important whether it's 499 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: actually gone inside the black hole or not. And then 500 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: can you still slip on the banana? Though? If it's 501 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: on the surface of the black hole, that's really the 502 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: important question. I mean, that's what this whole thing, because well, 503 00:26:58,280 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're going to do a cartoon on 504 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: the surface of a black hole, you want to make 505 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: it physically accurate, right, And every cartoon has got to 506 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: have somebody slipping on a banana. And so I appreciate 507 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: your desire here to do physically accurate black hole surface cartoons. 508 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: Thank you comedy, Yeah, and then you laugh about it 509 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: at the end of time. But I think what you're 510 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,719 Speaker 1: saying is that there's this kind of paradox, right, Like 511 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: we think things splat on the surface, and but someone 512 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: according to the people going in, they go inside. And 513 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: so there's this kind of idea that maybe you know, 514 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: once you go inside, you're just like on a to 515 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: the surface of the black hole. Yeah, that was sort 516 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: of the start of the puzzle, Like how do you 517 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: reconcile these two things? They seem like fundamentally very different things. 518 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: And hawking and this other guy, Beckenstein. We're working on 519 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: this and trying to understand, like where is the information 520 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: in a black hole? How does it actually work? And 521 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: they were working on this one day and they were 522 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: calculating how much information can be encoded inside a black hole. 523 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: That we're working on these calculations of black hole entropy. 524 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: Thinking about black holes is like thermodynamic objects with temperatures 525 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: that really and all this stuff. And one day they 526 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 1: arrived at this equation, and this equation told them that 527 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 1: the amount of information inside a black hole doesn't depend 528 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: on the volume of the black hole. It depends on 529 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: the area of the surface of the black hole. So 530 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: like it doesn't depend on the radius cube, that depends 531 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: on the radius squared. And that's kind of interesting. That's 532 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 1: the suggestion. It says, like, m the maximum information you 533 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: can store in a black hole depends on the area 534 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: of its surface, not on its volume. That suggests that 535 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: maybe actually these are just two dimensional objects, Like a 536 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: black hole is just a two dimensional object. But we 537 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: see it grow, right, don't we see a growth? Doesn't 538 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: that mean that it has volume to it? It could 539 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: be a two dimensional object embedded in our three D world, right, 540 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: Like the surface of a sphere technically is a two 541 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: D object. It's embedded in a three dimensional universe that 542 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: has a radius. It can move around in three dimensions, 543 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: but it's actually a two D object, like an infinitely 544 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: thin sheet of paper would also be a two D object. 545 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: So that's where this idea of a holographic universe hologrammic 546 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: hologrammic holographic principle of a holographic universe, meaning the university's 547 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: a hologram. So you're saying to the black hole could 548 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: be a two dimensional object in our three D world, 549 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: So how do we go from there to the whole university. 550 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: We didn't yet. First were trying to understand the interior 551 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: of a black hole, and the first step was to think, well, 552 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: maybe the interior of the black hole is a hologram, right, 553 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: maybe there is no interior. So if you are that 554 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: person that fell into the black hole and you think 555 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: you're on the inside of the black hole, you're actually 556 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: not actually still on the surface, but the whole surface 557 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: of the black hole has enough information to encode what 558 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: feels like a three D internal volume. So first, before 559 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: we go to the whole universe, people thought maybe the 560 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: two D surface of a black hole is a hologram 561 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: that projects the three D interior. So then what happens 562 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: is the black hole grows. The whole inside stays on 563 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: the surfacen't but it grows with the black hole. Oh man, 564 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: you can't think about that. You can't change the parameters. 565 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: This only works for a single thing falling into a 566 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: black hole. It gets much more complicated as soon as 567 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: you add like something else to a black hole. You know, 568 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: for example, if you throw a banana into a black hole, 569 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: then in principle, it never actually enters the event horizon. 570 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: It's smeared across the surface forever, right, And that's what 571 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: we're talking about now. If somebody behind you throws in 572 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: an apple, everything changes because that apple will now change 573 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: the shape of the event horizon. The event horizon will 574 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,479 Speaker 1: actually grow out to meet that apple as the apple 575 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,479 Speaker 1: falls in, and it will absorb the banana. So it's 576 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: a totally different scenario. You're now like tossing in multiple 577 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: things into the black hole. Not even something we're capable 578 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: of thinking about carefully, but that that is what's happening 579 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: right now in the universe, right, Like black holes are 580 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: constantly sucking stuff in things are constantly falling into and 581 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: they're constantly growing, So why would we think that that's 582 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: what's going on. Then yes, that is definitely what's happening 583 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: in the universe. And we see black holes actually growing, 584 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: and so we don't know what's going on there. If 585 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: you're the banana and and you're like smeared across the 586 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: black hole surface, and then somebody else throws in an 587 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: apple and increases the size the event horizon, it increases 588 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: the surface area, and now that surface area, in theory, 589 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: should be capable of describing a larger internal volume. There 590 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: is nothing actually inside the black hole in this picture. 591 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: Inside the black hole, there's no space, there's nothing. There 592 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: isn't anything in there that's not three D space that 593 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: you can move around in. There's just this weird surface 594 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: that has mathematically encoded onto it enough information to describe 595 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: a three D space. So the banana the apple feel 596 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: like they're in a normal three D space inside the 597 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: black hole, but they're still smeared across the edge of it. 598 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: All right. So then thinking about black holes and what 599 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: happens at the surface is what sort of led us 600 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: to this idea of a universe as a hologram, like, 601 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: are you saying that we're a universe imprinted on the 602 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: surface of a black hole, or are you saying that 603 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: just thinking about black holes let us to think, like, oh, 604 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: maybe the whole thing is imprinted somewhere else. Yes, exactly, 605 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: this idea from black holes let us to think more 606 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: carefully about the relationships between three D spaces and two 607 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: D spaces. And there was a bunch of guys working 608 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: on string theory, and string theory is really really difficult. 609 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: It's really hard to do any sort of calculation in 610 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: string theory, and sometimes when a problem is too difficult, 611 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: you look for like a mathematical trick to make it easier. 612 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: There's this idea that you can have a three dimensional 613 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: universe encoded on a two dimensional space, and some folks 614 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: realize that if you did that with string theory, it 615 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: might solve some mathematical problems, like if it's too difficult 616 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: to do a calculation in two dimensions, well, what if 617 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: it's actually a three dimensional universe. Then you can do 618 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: the calculation there. And so people were playing around with 619 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: that and realizing, oh, you can play the same game 620 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: not just with a black hole, but with string theory. 621 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: And so maybe you can describe the entire three dimensional 622 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: universe that has strings in it has a two dimensional 623 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: service and that would make some calculations easier to do 624 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: and other calculations actually harder to do. But they sort 625 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: of projected this whole idea onto the universe. And you know, 626 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: that's a really fun moment in science when you like 627 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: build a tool over here and you're like, oh, this 628 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: is cool. This solves this problem, and then you turn 629 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: around you're like a whole lot of second, maybe I 630 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: could do this to everything, you know, maybe I can 631 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: make it two thirds easier, so I'll have to do 632 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: as much math. Yeah, And so there was this really 633 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: big important result by a guy at the Institute for 634 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: Advanced Studies in Princeton, where that collection of smart folks 635 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: over there called a D S c F T, which 636 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: you can google if you're interested in more details about it, 637 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: or maybe we'll do a podcast episode about that. But 638 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: it give us this vision that maybe the entire universe 639 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: can be described in terms of being a three D 640 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: illusion of a two dimensional surface somewhere. All right, Well, 641 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: I have two questions for this three three dimensional problem. 642 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: I guess the first one is where did the third 643 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: dimension go? Like how is it being encoded in this 644 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: to the surface? And two could we ever tell the 645 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: difference that whether or not we are in a hologram 646 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: or not. So let's get into these questions, but first 647 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: let's take another quick break. All right, I know here's 648 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: my favorite question in these episodes. What does it all mean? Man? 649 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: Like if we're actually if our three D universe is 650 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: actually imprinted on it to the surface somewhere, like where 651 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: did the third dimension go? Is it just an illusion? 652 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: Is it actually there? You you mentioned like maybe it's 653 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: encoded in some quantum fields? Can you talk more about that? 654 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 1: Like how does how would that encode a whole dimension? Yes? 655 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: So think about space, right, do you think about spaces emptiness? 656 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 1: But we actually know that space isn't just empty, that 657 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: everywhere in the universe space has these things and that 658 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,919 Speaker 1: we call quantum fields. And what is a quantum field? Well, 659 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: it's just like a number at every point in space. 660 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,240 Speaker 1: For example, you know, there's the electromagnetic field and anywhere 661 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: you go in the universe, so you can ask what's 662 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: the strength of the electromagnetic field here, what's the strength 663 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 1: of it over there? It's something that has like a 664 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: value at every point in space, and the E M 665 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: field is actually more complicated because that's more than just 666 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: a value. It has like multiple values for every point 667 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: in space. But that doesn't matter. So this is something 668 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: which is sort of like added to space. You know. 669 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: It's like if instead of just having a city with 670 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: an address, where we have a house at every location. 671 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: Now inside that house you have a number like how 672 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 1: much is that house worth? Right, So that's like another 673 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,800 Speaker 1: piece of information at every point in space. It's encoded 674 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: into this quantum field. But there's lots of quantum fields, 675 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 1: though you're saying this like extra information is encoded in 676 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: all the fields, or like there's one quantum field for 677 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: basically the Z direction. Yes, there's a special quantum field, 678 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: because if you just have a quantum field, you can 679 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: have like arbitrary random values and that doesn't give you 680 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: like a dimension. Instead, if you have a special quantum 681 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: field that follows certain rules, these are called formal field theories. 682 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 1: If you have a quantum field which looks the same 683 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 1: if you zoom in really really close or if you 684 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: zoom out really really far, if it tends to follow 685 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: the same rules. But things that are zoomed in really 686 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: really close don't interact very well with things that are 687 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: zoomed out really really far. Then the mathematical structure of 688 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: that quantum field theory has some symmetries to it which 689 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: allow things to behave exactly as if there was a 690 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 1: third dimension. Like if things that are zoomed in really 691 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: really small don't interact with things that are like really 692 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: zoomed out in this quantum field theory, then it's sort 693 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,240 Speaker 1: of like things passing by each other in that other dimension. 694 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: And you know, if there's a scale that you can 695 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 1: like zoom in and zoom out, then it's sort of 696 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: like there's another direction there in this quantum field. And 697 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: so this is like a way to encode something into 698 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: the quantum field by adding a bunch of rules for 699 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: how it behaves, and those rules essentially make it as 700 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: if it was exactly like a dimension. Kind of feel 701 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: like maybe you're trying to pull a fast one on 702 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: your dear yor Daniel, I am, I feel like trying 703 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,439 Speaker 1: to You're trying to paint an illusion here. I feel 704 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 1: like maybe you're saying that there maybe are three dimensions, 705 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 1: but one of them you don't want to call it 706 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: a dimension, you know what I mean, Like, maybe it 707 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: feels like maybe it's just like a technicality about the 708 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: naming of it, But if it acts and looks like 709 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: a dimension, why not just call it at the nmdion. 710 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 1: I got nothing against calling it a dimension, but it 711 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: is different from the other two, right, And our program 712 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: here not just on this podcast, but as humans trying 713 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: to scratch out the nature of the universe, is to 714 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: figure out the nature of the universe, and so if 715 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 1: it turns out that to the dimensions are different from 716 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: the third dimension, then that's quite interesting. And so we'd 717 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: be fascinated to discover, for example, that our universe was 718 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,240 Speaker 1: actually one dimensions with like two weird projected dimensions instead 719 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: of being three dimensions, or if you were like, you know, 720 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 1: a three dimensional surface in a four dimensional space. I 721 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: think I would definitely want to know that. You know, 722 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: it doesn't change how you live your life necessarily, or 723 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: whether you should buy insurance. Yes, definitely buy insurance, but 724 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: it changes I think, our concept of the nature of reality. 725 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: So I definitely want to know. Even if mathematically the 726 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: two things are totally equivalent, physically, it means that one 727 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: of these dimensions is not the same as the other two, right, 728 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 1: But is it not the same in that fundamental of 729 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 1: a way or is it just different in a sort 730 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: of like notation mathematically way. No, I think it's fundamentally different, 731 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: because that would mean that space itself is two dimensions. 732 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: And remember one of our goals here is to understand 733 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,760 Speaker 1: the nature of space, and so space itself is two dimensions. 734 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: But then it has these properties, you know, these properties 735 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: which allowed to do things that three dimensional space would do. 736 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: Then that's different from living in three dimensional space. Yeah, 737 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: I feel like you're trying to pull a Pluto here 738 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: on the up and down dimension or something. It's like, 739 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: it's technically a dimensionoid out a dimension. It's a dwarf dimension. Yeah, exactly. 740 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: But you know, some of these calculations, these string theory calculations, 741 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,760 Speaker 1: are harder to do in a certain number of dimensions, 742 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 1: and they make more sense in fuel or in more dimensions. 743 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,280 Speaker 1: And so if the sort of fundamental theory of everything 744 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: turns out to only work in two dimensions and not 745 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: in three, then also sort of tells you something about 746 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: the nature of the universe itself. You know, the universe 747 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: pervers the two dimensional description. I mean, in theory. You 748 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: could describe the universe in terms of any number of 749 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 1: dimensions you want, but we're looking for the most compact, 750 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: the simplest, the most natural description that we hope reveals 751 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: not just the way we are thinking about things, but 752 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,320 Speaker 1: the actual structure of the physical universe outside our minds. 753 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: And I guess it also sort of depends on where 754 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: you define a space, right, like space. If you define 755 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,919 Speaker 1: space as only the two dimensions you like, then yeah, 756 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 1: there's it's only a two the space. But if you 757 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: maybe define spaces these two dimensions plus this extra you know, 758 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: value of the quantum field, then you know, maybe that 759 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: is what space is quote unquote hm, that's definitely what 760 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: our experience of space is, right, Either space is naturally 761 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: three dimensional or it's two dimensions with this extra wiggle 762 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,319 Speaker 1: room in it that allows us to experience it as 763 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: if it was three dimensions. I mean, it sounds to 764 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: me like your question is sort of like saying, isn't 765 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: the hologram actually a three D object? Like, well, no, 766 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 1: it's not really there, you know, like it really is 767 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 1: just a two D surface baseball card. Isn't actually three dimensions? 768 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: And you might say, well, it doesn't look any different 769 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: if you couldn't actually tell, what would it matter? Well, 770 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 1: it matters to me because I want to know the truth. Man, 771 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: What does it all mean? All right? Well, let's get 772 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: into the last question here, which is, um, how would 773 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: we even tell if we are in a two D 774 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: or three D universe? Right? Like, if the difference is 775 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 1: so small or subtle or kind of sort of like, uh, 776 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: you know complex, will we ever be able to, you know, 777 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: devise an experiment to tell us whether we are two 778 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: D or three D. Well, we're not sure, but there 779 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 1: are some folks out there who have some really fun 780 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: ideas for figuring out if we actually live on a 781 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: two D surface. And the idea is that a two 782 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: D surface with a projection and it's three D surface 783 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 1: would actually be different because there would be different quantum fluctuations, 784 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 1: Like we're talking about a quantum field generating this third dimension, right, 785 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,759 Speaker 1: and so we would definitely be sensitive to like the 786 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: way these fields fluctuate and quantum fields fluctuate differently in 787 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 1: two dimensions and in three dimensions. We had a whole 788 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: fun podcast episode about the nature of two D objects. 789 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: You should go check that out. But things move differently 790 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 1: in two dimensions and in three dimensions, and so they 791 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: fluctuate differently, and so we can see like quantum fluctuations 792 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 1: from the very very beginning of the universe. Quantum fluctuations 793 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,399 Speaker 1: you normally think of like oh, this electron went left 794 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: instead right, and nobody really cares that, nobody can ever 795 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: see them. But in the very beginning of the universe, 796 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,919 Speaker 1: those fluctuations dictated like how things happened, and they got 797 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 1: blown up into real measurable effects. So if there was 798 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 1: a two D world, we would see different quantum fluctuations 799 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 1: than in a three D world, and we might be 800 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: able to see hints of that in remnants of the 801 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 1: early universe, or I see because that the when the 802 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 1: universe was born, you're saying, at the Big Bang, you know, 803 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: with things were so compact and hot and small and 804 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: dance that quantum fluctuations were a big deal. And so 805 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 1: as the universe blew up. If there was actually only 806 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: two dimensions, then we would see something funny going on 807 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: right now instid of the universe around us. And because 808 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 1: this bonus dimension is responsible for making the third dimension 809 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,359 Speaker 1: and affecting how gravity works in this three dimensional world, 810 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: we should be able to see it in gravitational wave detectors. Basically, 811 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,400 Speaker 1: the bottom line is that if we live in a 812 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: two dimensional world with a funny bonus dimension, we should 813 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 1: be able to see a weird sort of like noise 814 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,800 Speaker 1: in gravitational wave detectors that you wouldn't otherwise see. This 815 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 1: noise would be like an extra fuzz or a unique 816 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 1: kind of fuzz that comes from the two D surface 817 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: instead of being in a three D world. But I 818 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 1: think you're saying You're not saying that there's like one 819 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: dimension that's fake. You're saying that, you know what I mean, Like, 820 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 1: it's not like Z is fake. It's more like X, 821 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,719 Speaker 1: Y and Z actually mapped to a B in the 822 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,319 Speaker 1: a little bit and something bonus called C. You want 823 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,759 Speaker 1: to see flat gravitational ways, for example, you would see 824 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 1: some weird mathematical or some weird dependency on the on 825 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: the gravitational waves. Yeah, exactly. The idea is if all 826 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 1: the three dimensions are not the same, if two of 827 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 1: them are actual dimensions and one of them is just 828 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: a bonus, then there are different rules for those dimensions. 829 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 1: And when it comes to things like quantum mechanics and so, 830 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: they have different impacts on things like gravitational waves, and 831 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,959 Speaker 1: we should be able to see if there's like two 832 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,880 Speaker 1: dimensions of noise in the gravitational waves or three dimensions 833 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,400 Speaker 1: of quantum noise in the gravitational waves. That was the idea. 834 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: At least. There's this guy for me, that Craig Hogan, 835 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,319 Speaker 1: who said in two thousand and eight that he had 836 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 1: a prediction for what he thought these gravitational wave detectors 837 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: should see if we actually lived in a holographic universe, 838 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: if we lived in a two D world projected into 839 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,800 Speaker 1: three D by our minds, then we should see this 840 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: extra fuzz in these experiments from these gravitational wave detectors. 841 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,359 Speaker 1: So that was his diction in two thousand and eight. 842 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,520 Speaker 1: So we've actually seen gravitation of waves now with the 843 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: Lego experiments, and so have we seen this noise? Is 844 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: there evidence for a holographic universe? So that was sort 845 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,440 Speaker 1: of a moment of excitement because he sent his prediction. 846 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,839 Speaker 1: He's like, here's what you should see. You should see 847 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,800 Speaker 1: this kind of fuzz if you look at your data. 848 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: And then they sent it back some data and it 849 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,799 Speaker 1: looked just like the fuzz he predicted. And so for 850 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: a moment, people were like, what, hold on a second, 851 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: did Hogan just proved that we live in a hologram? 852 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 1: But then it turns out, you know, he might have 853 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,360 Speaker 1: seen that plot already. He might have known in advance 854 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,840 Speaker 1: the kind of noise that they were seeing. What it 855 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,919 Speaker 1: might have been a postdiction and not a prediction, right. 856 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 1: And you know, these gravitational wave detectors are very tricky 857 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: and have a lot of noise in them, and the 858 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: whole game is getting them to be quiet and noise 859 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 1: free so you can see gravitational waves. So it's not 860 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 1: that impressive to like find noise in a gravitational wave detector. 861 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,040 Speaker 1: It's almost like the noise is the illusion, right, Like 862 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,799 Speaker 1: you can project anything you want to that noise if 863 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,480 Speaker 1: you do the theory right exactly. And so people did 864 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,399 Speaker 1: some other calculations and they realize that even if he's 865 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: right that you can see it in this way, then 866 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: the size of the noise he predicts is much much 867 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: smaller than anything we're seeing. So so far, we don't 868 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 1: have any evidence that we're living in a holographic universe 869 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 1: or that the universe is a hologram. But there are 870 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: clever people out there thinking about ways to sort of 871 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 1: probe this and looking for clues around the edges of 872 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 1: stuff to see if we're just living on a baseball card. Well, 873 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,800 Speaker 1: I hope it's a valuable one, not one of those 874 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: common cards. It's got a baseball player slipping on a 875 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,400 Speaker 1: banana near a black hole. But you only think he's 876 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,880 Speaker 1: slipping exactly sleeping. You have to wait till the end 877 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,040 Speaker 1: of time to see him actually slip on the banana. 878 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: All right, Well, I guess once again the answer is 879 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,280 Speaker 1: stay tuned. We think it's possible. Well, we know it's possible. 880 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,400 Speaker 1: We could be in ato the sort of universe, But 881 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,480 Speaker 1: I guess we don't have the instruments right now to 882 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,399 Speaker 1: tell the difference, or we don't know the right way 883 00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,480 Speaker 1: to tell the difference. Even that's right, people are still 884 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 1: thinking about and coming up with ways to predict it. 885 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,839 Speaker 1: And there are folks out there thinking about clever experiments 886 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,600 Speaker 1: that might be sensitive to the nature of space. Is 887 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: it really two plus one dimensions or is it three dimensions? 888 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,160 Speaker 1: We don't even know. But maybe in the future somebody 889 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: will unravel this. Somebody will figure out that it only 890 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,840 Speaker 1: makes sense for it to be two plus one or 891 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:19,680 Speaker 1: one of these listeners out there will come up with 892 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: a really awesome experiment to probe the very nature of 893 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 1: space and time. And in the meantime, I guess you 894 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,799 Speaker 1: should watch out for those three the snacks, because you 895 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,839 Speaker 1: are still three dimensions as far as everyone else. That's right. 896 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,840 Speaker 1: Just toss them in the black hole and watch for 897 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,479 Speaker 1: infinity as they very slowly fall in. It's the long 898 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,839 Speaker 1: term die there you go. All right, Well, we hope 899 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,720 Speaker 1: you enjoyed that and it didn't what flattened your mind, Daniel. 900 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,400 Speaker 1: I hope it doesn't change the nature of your experience 901 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: in this universe, because that third dimension is pretty fun. 902 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,920 Speaker 1: I like being able to step over puddles rather than 903 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,080 Speaker 1: having to walk through them or go around them. So 904 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,959 Speaker 1: let's all savor and enjoy that third dimension at least 905 00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,360 Speaker 1: while we know it's real. Well, we hope you enjoyed that. 906 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:08,840 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, see you, and thanks for listening, 907 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 1: and remember that. Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is 908 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,120 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from 909 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,880 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio Apple Apple Podcasts, 910 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,360 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.