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Speaker 2: use my name at checkout fifteen percent off. Well, I

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Speaker 2: brought him on the herd. He won our first ever

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Speaker 2: Big Jay Journalism Award. I think we retired it after

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Speaker 2: he won it. We've never handed out a second. He

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Speaker 2: is the founder of Golong, one of the first guys

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Speaker 2: in sports to really jump over to substack and be

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Speaker 2: his own man. I love that about him and one

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Speaker 2: of the teams that he has really been really a

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Speaker 2: ground zero, a foundational reporter, and has pushedback on this

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Speaker 2: franchise many times. They have had a wild last four weeks.

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Speaker 2: You don't think of Buffalo and controversy. You think of

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Speaker 2: New York and controversy in Philadelphia and Boston. But Buffalo's just,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's quiet. It's upstate. So let's start with

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Speaker 2: the press conference today where Terry, the owner of Bagula,

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Speaker 2: basically calls out keon Coleman. I just kept thinking, man,

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Speaker 2: for a billionaire, that's not a ton of self awareness.

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Speaker 2: You were at the press conference. Basically he was defending

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Speaker 2: Billy Bean, who was sitting next to him. Wo's taking

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Speaker 2: a ton of criticism for his draft record, which is

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Speaker 2: not stellar. Okay, let's start with a press conference. Was

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Speaker 2: it awkward when Terry went off script to defend Billy Bean?

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Speaker 3: You know it was.

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Speaker 1: It was uncomfortable, It was awkward. It was something that

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Speaker 1: you never see in sports, right, Owners, general managers, head coaches.

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Speaker 1: They never bring you inside publicly like that and say no,

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Speaker 1: this person wanted that player, that person wanted that player.

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest, Colin. I loved the honesty. I love

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Speaker 1: the transparency. I'm not in PR. It probably isn't the

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Speaker 1: best PR move because that's pretty avoidable.

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Speaker 3: If you're the Buffalo Bills like you just don't need

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Speaker 3: to bring that up.

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Speaker 1: If if you want that information out there, there's people

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Speaker 1: like me you can tell off the record.

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Speaker 3: All these people in all sports know that.

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Speaker 1: But to me, what I kept thinking of is, all right,

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Speaker 1: the one person who has control over this is Keon Coleman.

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Speaker 1: The only reason he's being framed as a bust is

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Speaker 1: because he has been a bus.

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Speaker 3: Two years in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he's shown up late to meetings twice.

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Speaker 1: He's getting into Sean mcdermot's doghouse.

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Speaker 3: I will say this.

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Speaker 1: I was told it wasn't necessarily Sean McDermott who drafted

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Speaker 1: Keon Coleman.

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Speaker 3: It was coaches on the staff.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, Brandon Bean, it puts him in a tough

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Speaker 1: spot where he's sitting there like, all right, well, we're

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Speaker 1: going into year three with this guy.

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Speaker 3: We don't want to give up on this guy.

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Speaker 1: And he later for you know, made a point to say, look,

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Speaker 1: I drafted him, we all drafted him.

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Speaker 3: At that point, it's.

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Speaker 1: Kind of out there to me, you know what this

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Speaker 1: press conference was colin truth bombs left and right, and

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Speaker 1: the truth hurts for Keon Coleman. I'm sorry if feelings

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Speaker 1: are hurt more production Sean McDermott.

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Speaker 3: They praised him for his nine years of service.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the day, it's been a decade

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Speaker 1: with arguably the best player in the league, and what

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Speaker 1: do you have to show for it?

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Speaker 3: To me, that was the biggest takeaway from this press conference.

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Speaker 1: At one point, Terry Pagoula is looking at all of

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Speaker 1: us and basically looking at the entire city at Buffalo,

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Speaker 1: say it is is seven years in a row of

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Speaker 1: making the playoffs?

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Speaker 3: Is that success? Is that success? And no super Bowl appearance?

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Speaker 1: He's basically asking everybody, if you want to get to

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Speaker 1: the playoffs and lose.

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Speaker 3: We've done that. Do we want to win a super Bowl?

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Speaker 3: Do we want something more? Then you gotta move on.

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Speaker 1: Look, I mean one stat I'll give you too is

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Speaker 1: I've been repeating it non stop. It go along, but

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Speaker 1: teams move on from head coaches at this point for

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Speaker 1: a reason.

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Speaker 3: You know he's entered in year ten.

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Speaker 1: There's only been three head coaches really two who have

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Speaker 1: won their first Super Bowl in year nine or beyond

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Speaker 1: with with that team, Bill Kauer, Tom Landry, Hank Stram,

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Speaker 1: and Hank Stram won an AFL title before that. So right,

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Speaker 1: you know the list of the Marty Schottenheimers and Marvin

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Speaker 1: Lewis's and Bart Stars and Wayne Fonx and Marv Levi's,

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Speaker 1: it's much much longer.

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Speaker 3: It was overdue if you ask me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's let's there was a feeling in Buffalo and

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Speaker 2: I've said this with with Brandon and Bean I did

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Speaker 2: some sourcing on it. I called a couple of gms

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Speaker 2: I respect, I said, what do you what do you

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Speaker 2: know about him? Because I don't know him, nor do

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Speaker 2: I have any even a tech relationship. And they said,

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Speaker 2: he's really good with the cap. He's not necessarily known

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Speaker 2: as an elite John Snyder level, you know, like what

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Speaker 2: you would say personnel guy doesn't mean he can't do it.

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Speaker 2: For the record, it's really hard. Drafting is really hard

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Speaker 2: the best with I mean, you know the rams of

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Speaker 2: wift on second rounders the niners have. It's hard. So

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Speaker 2: there is no there's no exact science to guessing how

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Speaker 2: a twenty two year old will work, you know, I

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Speaker 2: mean keyon Coleman, Florida to Buffalo, just the weather alone,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's like, wow, that's a different a probably

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Speaker 2: never been to Buffalo before, right, like a lot of

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Speaker 2: these kids. But what is the sense Is it fair

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Speaker 2: to say since Josh Allen fifty five draft picks two

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Speaker 2: Pro bowlers, is it fair? Is that a fair criticism

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Speaker 2: that he has struggled in the draft, or do you

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Speaker 2: see personnel as he's been reasonably solid Like most gms

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Speaker 2: hit some misses.

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Speaker 1: You know what That's a great question because I think

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Speaker 1: everybody's asking that same exact question right now, because who's

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Speaker 1: that fault here? Right? Is it the head coach or

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Speaker 1: the GM for why this team, forget whinning a super.

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Speaker 3: Bowl, hasn't gotten to his Super Bowl? Right? No, no head.

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Speaker 1: Coach has won more playoff games with a Super Bowl

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Speaker 1: appearance than Sean McDermott eight. No quarterback has one more

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Speaker 1: playoff games without a super Bowl appearance than.

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Speaker 3: Josh Allen eight. So, like, who's at faultier?

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Speaker 1: People that I talked to around the league, they believe

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Speaker 1: this has been a championship roster year in a year out,

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Speaker 1: that they should have one in twenty twenty one thirteen seconds.

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Speaker 1: And we can get into that because I really do

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Speaker 1: believe that was the moment that probably broke the psychology

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Speaker 1: of the Buffalo Bills under Sean McDermott. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've got seasons other than that you can point to

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Speaker 1: and say that they had enough talent to win it all.

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Speaker 1: And I think, look, Brandon Bean was the driving force

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Speaker 1: behind the move up the draft board for Josh Allen,

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Speaker 1: So Terry Pogula remembers that, and then if you fast

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Speaker 1: forward this year, you've got the rating MVP, you've got

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Speaker 1: the NFL's leading rusher and James Cook.

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Speaker 3: You've got a top five offensive line and the defense.

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Speaker 1: Right, you've got a defensive minded head coach and Sean McDermott,

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Speaker 1: and you look at these playoff losses in the last

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Speaker 1: six playoff losses could really kind of point to that

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Speaker 1: as when the Bills have been legitimate Super Bowl contenders, right,

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Speaker 1: because they get the Jacksonville in twenty seventeen, they end

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Speaker 1: the drought twenty nineteen, Josh Allen's in a year two

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Speaker 1: they lost in the wildcard of the Texans in overtime,

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Speaker 1: blew at sixteen to nothing.

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Speaker 3: Leave that game.

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Speaker 1: But let's look at those six with a defensive minded

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Speaker 1: head coach Colin fifty two non kneel down drives in

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Speaker 1: those six games against what you've got three mahomes, one borrow,

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Speaker 1: one Bonnix, okay, fifty two nine kneel down drives. They've

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Speaker 1: allowed twenty five touchdowns, thirteen field goals, forced only twelve punts.

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Speaker 3: There's one missed field goal in there.

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Speaker 1: They've created three turnovers, allowing one hundred and ninety nine points.

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Speaker 1: That's three point eighty three points per drive. I believe

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Speaker 1: that's more than the two thousand and seven Patriots average

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Speaker 1: per drive with a defensive minded head coach.

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Speaker 3: So Brandon Bean's thinking, Okay.

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Speaker 1: It was defense again in the AFC Championship game last year, right,

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Speaker 1: Josh Allen did enough. The Bills offense did enough at Arrowhead,

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Speaker 1: and Chief's offense that was average to above average the

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Speaker 1: last season and a half hung thirty two on you.

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Speaker 1: So he goes out and signs Bosa, Lario, Goojobi, Michael

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Speaker 1: Hoyt and drafts five defensive players in a row, like,

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Speaker 1: here's more options for you, Sean McDermott. Let's get a stop, right,

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Speaker 1: Let's let's get one stop. You get to Denver. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Joshawn had four turnovers. The crazy play at the end

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Speaker 1: of the half and he's hit for the blind side,

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Speaker 1: but yes, he had four turnovers. Even then, they almost

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Speaker 1: became the second road playoff team ever to overcome a

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Speaker 1: minus three tourner over differential to win.

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Speaker 3: I think it was one.

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Speaker 1: They were one in eighty five going into this game

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Speaker 1: because of Allen, because of the offense, and then two

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Speaker 1: minutes left, third and eleven, it looks like Shawn's gonna

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Speaker 1: send the Dogs seven at the line of scrimmage. Here's

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Speaker 1: the moment he's finally gonna be aggressive and three of

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Speaker 1: a back off, Bonick hits Courtland Sutton for a first down.

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Speaker 1: Four plays later, Trenevius White gets hurt. He's out. Sean

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Speaker 1: Payton smells blood. Dan Jackson ice cold out the sideline.

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Speaker 1: You leave him one out, one on the outside. What

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Speaker 1: do you think Sean Payton's gonna do. He did the

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Speaker 1: same thing earlier in the game when Cam Lewis the

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Speaker 1: safety got hurt and Darnault Savage.

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Speaker 3: Your fifth or six safeties on the field.

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Speaker 1: A bust from Green Bay shouldn't be in that spot,

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Speaker 1: but Peyton saw it and he took advantage. So Sean

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Speaker 1: McDermott failed to learn his lesson in the game. Look,

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Speaker 1: if you've got a defensive mind, a head coach, these

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Speaker 1: are the little.

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Speaker 3: Things you got to do. Yeah, And I think that Terry.

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Speaker 1: Pagoula is looking at these moments, and he's looking at

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Speaker 1: the eyes of his players in the locker room. He

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Speaker 1: talked about this today and he sees how despondent, how

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Speaker 1: teary eyed. Josh Allen Is, Dion Dawkins, everybody. He's saying, Man,

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Speaker 1: we can't keep doing this year to year like this

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Speaker 1: team has planned to.

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Speaker 3: We got to do something.

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Speaker 1: And I get the debate, but he decided that it

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Speaker 1: was Sean mcdermot's fault, not Brandon Bean.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. I think I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: here's where I'll defend Brandon Bean. I think they're offensive

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Speaker 2: personnels pretty good. They have an excellent slot receiver, maybe

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Speaker 2: not lad McConkey, but darn good star back, star left tackle,

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Speaker 2: great running back, O line, more than solid, multiple tight

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Speaker 2: ends Dawson Knox obviously, Dalton kincaid so and Keyon Coleman.

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Speaker 2: I didn't have a problem with a draft pick because

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Speaker 2: I saw him in college and I thought he was

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Speaker 2: rangy and tall. Receivers Number one last twenty years, number

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Speaker 2: one position, first round bust is wide receiver. He's not

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Speaker 2: the first Belichick couldn't draft one in the first round.

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Speaker 2: Chad Jackson, Nikhil Harry, Nikhil Henry from Arizona State couldn't

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Speaker 2: draft one to save his life. So by the way,

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Speaker 2: Andy Reid, Brute, Brett Veach, great great guys, Sky Moore,

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Speaker 2: Miss Rashee, Rice always in trouble Xavier Worthy bottom first. Yah,

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Speaker 2: So like I do think Brandon Bean deserves credit for

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Speaker 2: They've done a pretty damn good job on offense, a

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Speaker 2: pretty good group, and I think an offensive coach like

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Speaker 2: Brian Dabol would squeeze even more juice out of that group.

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Speaker 2: So let's pivot to that. Is Dable the front runner.

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Speaker 1: He'll definitely be in the conversation, And I love this.

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Speaker 1: I love talking Brian Dable because it is fascinating. He

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Speaker 1: was like a father figure for Josh Allen here. They

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Speaker 1: were unbelievably close.

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Speaker 3: When I did that. You were all over this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we probably talked about it on the Herd then, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean we're all The nine to eleven speech that

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Speaker 1: mcdermoty that gave that gate got a lot of headlines,

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Speaker 1: but really I thought one of the more fascinating nuggets

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Speaker 1: was in part three of that series where I had

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Speaker 1: heard from veterans on that team and coaches who repeated

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Speaker 1: just how close Josh Allen was to Brian Dable on

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Speaker 1: the field.

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Speaker 3: You know Josh Alleny's He's a.

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Speaker 1: Farm boy from Fireball California, right, and no star recruit

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Speaker 1: had to earn everything. He He's okay with a coach

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Speaker 1: yelling in his yar hole like Brian Dable would. I

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Speaker 1: could picture him on the sideline after an interception in

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Speaker 1: year two against the Patriots, stables losing his mind.

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Speaker 3: Alan took the hard coaching did something with it.

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Speaker 1: Dabele had such an effect on him as a young player,

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Speaker 1: but he got off the field. I mean they were

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Speaker 1: hanging out all the time. It was a special relationship.

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Speaker 1: So there was one player and I asked, this is

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, like at that point, Dable's with the

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Speaker 1: New York Giants, obviously, like, did the Bills keep the

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Speaker 1: right coach? And he paused for quite literally thirteen seconds,

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Speaker 1: ironically enough, and she goes, does that answer your question?

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Speaker 1: I mean there's people who think that the Bills could

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Speaker 1: have multiple Super Bowls right now if Dabele and Allen

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Speaker 1: stayed together.

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Speaker 3: And look, josh Adlen is.

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Speaker 1: Gonna be in these interviews with the head coaches and

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Speaker 1: not Dable. I actually caught up with a coach who

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Speaker 1: might be in the running for this job recently, and

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Speaker 1: he you know, we'll see if he's he's.

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Speaker 3: Of interest too.

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Speaker 1: There's gonna be a lot of people that want this

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Speaker 1: job when it comes to Dable, though all signs would

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Speaker 1: point to him be in the front runner for all

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Speaker 1: those reasons. But I also think of this Colin Bran

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Speaker 1: Brandon Bean is tight with Joe Shang. Joe Shang was

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Speaker 1: here in Buffalo, and Joe Shane knows firsthand what went

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Speaker 1: down with the Giants, right, he probably knows all the

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Speaker 1: good that comes with Dable and maybe some of the

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Speaker 1: disorganization behind the scenes that came with Dable.

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Speaker 3: You can learn from that stuff, Like I love.

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Speaker 1: It when teams give a give a head coach a

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Speaker 1: second chance, like you should be able to learn from

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Speaker 1: what went wrong.

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Speaker 3: So he absolutely could.

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Speaker 1: That's what being has to kind of parse through and

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Speaker 1: figure out, like what went wrong and would he do

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Speaker 1: better the second time around, Because being an NFL head coach,

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Speaker 1: it's more than just coaching quarterbacks and having a relationship

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Speaker 1: with Josh Hell, which is unbelievably important. There's game management

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Speaker 1: stuff which Dable struggled with with the Giants. Obviously, interpersonal

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Speaker 1: relationships behind the scenes, right he famously classed with Wing Martindale.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's the kind of stuff that probably

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Speaker 1: they're gonna ask Brian Dable in this interview when they

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Speaker 1: have him been.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've defended Brian Dable because coaching in New

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Speaker 2: York is hard. Coaching in New York having to take

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Speaker 2: Dave Gettleman, Daniel Jones and win is hard. The New

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Speaker 2: York media is multifaceted, multi personality, very uber competitive. And

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Speaker 2: I said to Day on the Herd, I said, you know,

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Speaker 2: Buffalo is different. I mean, you have real pros in

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Speaker 2: the media. I'm not disparaging anybody now, a lot of

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Speaker 2: good radio TV people up there. Buffalo's always played bigger

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Speaker 2: than it is as a market. Always reminds me. I

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Speaker 2: don't know why I think of this as Salt Lake

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Speaker 2: City media. Buffalo media feel much bigger than they are.

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Speaker 2: A lot of pros. People just want to live in

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Speaker 2: Salt Lake City and ski, and people love living in

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Speaker 2: Buffalo because it's a wonderful place to live. But I

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Speaker 2: I guess when I look at Brian Dable, who's succeeded

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Speaker 2: in New York, even Conflin at the end struggled. Whereas

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Speaker 2: I really like the ownership of Buffalo, I think Brandon

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Speaker 2: Bean realizes a lot of people have the microscope on

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Speaker 2: him now, and so the Buffalo media and I really

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Speaker 2: respected this has been hard on Bean, and tomorrow's columns

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Speaker 2: on this press conference will be intense. What is the

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Speaker 2: relationship Pagoula Bean fans media today? Because usually when you

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Speaker 2: get to market the size of Buffalo or Baltimore, the

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Speaker 2: media is not antagonistic, But it does feel like Baltimore

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Speaker 2: Buffalo's media feels almost a responsibility. They know they're in

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Speaker 2: the national spotlight and they've sharpened the saw. It feels

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Speaker 2: like I mean Bean's radio appearance, I think on WGR,

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Speaker 2: I read the columns. I mean, is it as tense

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Speaker 2: as it sounds?

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Speaker 1: It was tense today, Colin, There's no way around it.

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Speaker 1: They asked I was there. I wasn't able to get

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Speaker 1: a question. It was hard to get a question in

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Speaker 1: because it was an opportunity to ask about the firing

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Speaker 1: of head coach, which hasn't happened here in Western New

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Speaker 1: York in nearly a decade. They've been winning division titles.

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Speaker 1: Sean McDermott cleaned up the Rex Ryan mess, and it

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Speaker 1: was a mess. It was worse than you can imagine.

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Speaker 1: And he deserves all the credit for that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think he he's a free agent head

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Speaker 3: coach right now.

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Speaker 1: If you wanted to clean up the Cleveland Browns or

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Speaker 1: a team like that, he could do it like that.

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Speaker 1: That's what Sean McDermott does really well. But yeah, to

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Speaker 1: answer your question, people were ready to ask Brandon be

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Speaker 1: some hard questions. I think it's interesting, you know, Sean

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Speaker 1: McDermott really did ingratiate himself to the community this past

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Speaker 1: year in a way that he hasn't most of his tenure.

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Speaker 1: He has been a little stand offish, not doing much

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Speaker 1: media beyond press conferences, kind of you know, a little colder,

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Speaker 1: a little more aloof and just didn't I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to play that game really And then recently, even after

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Speaker 1: I did that series, I was welcome back in the building.

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Speaker 1: I sat down with Sean at the combine, we talked

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Speaker 1: about it, got a credential. Next thing, I know, into

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Speaker 1: the playoffs in twenty twenty four, I'm in his office.

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Speaker 3: We're talking for an hour about his evolution as a coach.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he definitely made a concerted effort to get

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Speaker 1: his personality out there. Dan Pompey at The Athletic and

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Speaker 1: excellent profile on Sean McDermott recently. I think through all

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Speaker 1: of that you know, there's a story in the Buffalo

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Speaker 1: News where ahead of the last game at high Mark Stadium,

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Speaker 1: he's like looking around the field and taking it all in.

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Speaker 1: And the community kind of felt an attachment to Sean McDermott. Really,

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Speaker 1: I mean you can see it, you can feel it.

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Speaker 1: Of the same fans who are pissed at this team

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Speaker 1: loses every January, they felt a bond to him, and

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Speaker 1: I think the majority of fans, at least this season

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Speaker 1: kind of pinned a lot of the problems on the

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Speaker 1: GM and the wide receiver position, and it has kind

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Speaker 1: of rooted in that WGR interview that Brandon Bean did

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Speaker 1: so in a roundabout way, Yeah, like fansy, they didn't

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Speaker 1: think that a lot of fans, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: the percentage would be didn't think that Sean McDermott should

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Speaker 1: have been fired. So when this goes down, I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks were surprised and wanted answers, and

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Speaker 1: the media sought those answers. But here's where I here's

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Speaker 1: where I think though. This isn't to blame local media,

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Speaker 1: blame fans, and just the theme that I keep coming

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Speaker 1: back to Colin is let's not lose the plot here everyone, Right,

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Speaker 1: I gave you that stat earlier on this gust team

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Speaker 1: move on at this point and that game, that thirteen

379
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Speaker 1: seconds game at Arrowhead. I've been told repeatedly again on

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Speaker 1: Monday when I reached out to people around the team

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Speaker 1: around the relationship of McDermott.

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Speaker 3: And being that that moment had a lot of that

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Speaker 3: did a lot of damage. Right.

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Speaker 1: I think Richard Sherman would tell you the exact same

385
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Speaker 1: thing about the legion of Boom Seahawks when Pete Carroll

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Speaker 1: decided to throw the ball to one yard line. That

387
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Speaker 1: moment kind of broke those Seahawks twenty eight to three,

388
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Speaker 1: broke the Atlanta Falcons, thirteen seconds, broke the psychology of

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Speaker 1: the Bills.

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Speaker 3: And here's why reported all of it. And it's funny.

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Speaker 1: I mean, to my knowledge, Sean mcderm has been peppered

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Speaker 1: with these thirteen second questions. But I've reached out to coaches,

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Speaker 1: I've reached out to players. He overruled the special teams

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Speaker 1: coordinator Heath Farewell, who wanted his squipkick. McDermott said, touchback.

395
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Speaker 1: That allows for those two plays to happen over the

396
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Speaker 1: full thirteen seconds and what happens before those plays.

397
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Speaker 3: He calls a timeout.

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Speaker 1: They call it kodak, a chance to kind of see

399
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Speaker 1: what the Chiefs are doing and line up accordingly.

400
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Speaker 3: The dbs are.

401
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Speaker 1: In another zip code. It's easy work for mahomes. In

402
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Speaker 1: that moment, McDermott I was told overruled Leslie Fraser's defensive coordinator.

403
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Speaker 3: He's doing the defensive play calling.

404
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: They give up the field goal, they get into overtime,

405
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Speaker 1: they get rolled over, they get said the locker room,

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Speaker 1: and I had a coach tell me that. Even in

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Speaker 1: that moment, Sean McDermott said something like why.

408
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Speaker 3: The offense left too much time on the field, like

409
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Speaker 3: what thirteen seconds? And then the next day is.

410
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Speaker 1: Kind of looking at his assistant coaches and saying, you

411
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Speaker 1: guys need to figure out what went wrong here.

412
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Speaker 3: You need to figure it out. And that was it

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Speaker 3: into the offseason.

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Speaker 1: So not only does this like really traumatic by football

415
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Speaker 1: standards moment happen, there's really no ownership, there's really no

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Speaker 1: accountability in that moment, and it really did linger into

417
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Speaker 1: twenty two, twenty three, twenty four to the point where

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Speaker 1: people in all departments are saying, like that has kind

419
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Speaker 1: of been a dark cloud over this team to where.

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Speaker 3: And look the time.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of always been awkward if Terry pagool and

422
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Speaker 1: the Bills wanted the fire McDermott, because in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: Sean McDermott probably is his best coaching job ever. A

424
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Speaker 1: player nearly dies on a football field tomorrow Hamblin comes

425
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Speaker 1: back to life, and you've got to somehow get your

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Speaker 1: team ready to play a football game the following week.

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Speaker 3: Unbelievable job by McDermott.

428
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Speaker 1: Yes, they get smashed by the Bengals in the playoffs,

429
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Speaker 1: but it's not like Pagoula is going to fire him

430
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Speaker 1: after all that. Twenty twenty three, I write that three

431
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Speaker 1: part series when they're six and six, they win six

432
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Speaker 1: games in a row. They're a missed field go away

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Speaker 1: from getting to the AMC Championship game. It can't really

434
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: fire him after that. And then twenty twenty four, you're

435
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: in the AFC Championship game that fourth and five prayer

436
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: from Allen, you know, he escapes all that rush, gets

437
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 1: into dalton Y KD just misses it. They don't fire

438
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: him after that, when in retrospect, maybe you should have

439
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 1: Vrabel Ben Johnson the and Cohen are available, but in

440
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: a round about way, I'm just stand.

441
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 3: Look, I think that that can't has kind of.

442
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 1: Hovered over the team in a way that isn't isn't

443
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: really understood by the fans, the majority of the fans

444
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: who I feel this connection with Sean McDermott internally.

445
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 3: I'm telling you it's real.

446
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 1: And if the Bills could do it all over again,

447
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 1: I think they would think long and hard about doing

448
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: the Doug Collins to Phil Jackson. Think at that point

449
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: right where David it would have been hard to the

450
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: Bill were still on the rise.

451
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 3: But if you could rewrite history, I mean.

452
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 1: That would have been a moment to move on to

453
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: a new coach, write then upgrade while you're on the rise.

454
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Speaker 2: We've covered a lot of ground with Buffalo. I can't

493
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 2: bring you on and not talk packers because that's when

494
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 2: we were first introduced to you. You pick really fascinating franchises.

495
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 2: So I defended Matt Lafleur and Brian Gooden Kountz, but

496
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 2: mostly Matt Lafleur because he's won sixty six percent of

497
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 2: his games. I also think the NFC over the last

498
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 2: two to three years has really improved. It's superior to

499
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 2: the AFC. And I also think Aaron Rodgers at the

500
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 2: end was difficult. He had one or two really Aaron

501
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 2: was really happy to see him. McCarthy and Aaron had

502
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: regressed as a relationship clearly eroded. He put his arms

503
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 2: around the young, good looking guy, just like Aaron. Generationally

504
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 2: they were in line kind of good looking, young, you know,

505
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: successful guys. But at the end, I think we know

506
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 2: that Aaron aged pretty quickly, like unlike Brady, he was

507
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 2: not obsessed in the off season. You know, He's took

508
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 2: his off seasons to do his thing, and Aaron's age

509
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 2: more quickly, so he didn't get really great. Aaron for

510
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 2: quite the runway we thought then Jordan Love, I thought

511
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 2: he did a tremendous job with him and Malik Willis

512
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: in multiple opportunities. When I mean they got him into

513
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: camp late and a month later he's playing and they're winning.

514
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: So I just think he's a winning coach. I think

515
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 2: it's the NFC's gotten better his division. You know, Detroit

516
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: arguably best roster, Kevin O'Connell one of the sharpest guys

517
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: in the league, and now the Bears have Ben and Caleb.

518
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 2: It's a really tough division with a lot of smart

519
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: guys in it. So but but do you think when

520
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: the stories came out and I tended when I see

521
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 2: a story proclaiming a big possible change, Okay, who wrote it?

522
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: Did you do you believe they sat down in that

523
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 2: organization forty eight hours and thought about moving off Matt Lafleur.

524
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 3: It had to have been a thought.

525
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: If you're at policy, you know this is your opportunity

526
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: to put your imprint on this team. I mean, he's

527
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: the CEO, he's the president. We know the fans owned

528
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,719
Speaker 1: the team, but he's the one in charge. It's kind

529
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: of a perfect situation when you when you take over

530
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: a team where you've got a head coach in a

531
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 1: GM entering the final year of their deal. So you

532
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: decide right then, either you give them the extensions or

533
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: you move off them.

534
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 3: I mean, they didn't want to be lame ducks. Nobody

535
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 3: wants that situation. So I think it was probably a thought.

536
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,479
Speaker 1: How could it not be after that choke job at

537
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: Soldier Field, And it wasn't. It wasn't the first and

538
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,719
Speaker 1: to be up, but it could it could have been

539
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: twenty four to three at half with the field goal

540
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 1: hell Jordan Love almost hitting Christian Watson on a touchdown,

541
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: it could have been twenty eight to three out of

542
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: a half, and that's kind of a forgotten play. But yes,

543
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,239
Speaker 1: it's twenty one to three to have those four to

544
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: three and outs, to have no answers as an offensive coach,

545
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: and you could just you could.

546
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 3: Just feel it, you know.

547
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: Especially it was interesting Collins in a week around the

548
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: New England Patriots out of that game and hearing from

549
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: Mike Vrabel and these players and how they strained through

550
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: the play, how they worked through the play, the longevityabily,

551
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 1: never quit, the relentless, and that is just created by

552
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: Mike Vrabel as far back as the spring. It is

553
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: very culture driven. When he's telling guys, pick up your

554
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: dirty wash clause in the shower. He instructed the equipment

555
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: staff if you see dirty wash cloths on the shower floor,

556
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: just wring them.

557
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 3: Out and don't wash them like little things like that.

558
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: All the way to the defense, he installs x's and

559
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: odes wise has a purpose and then to hear Matt

560
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: Laflour talk about how they need to strain through the play,

561
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: The play more after the latest collapse. I don't know,

562
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: man like that speaks to the DNA of a team.

563
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 3: He's been there a while.

564
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of late game collapses, not all

565
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: the way back to Aaron Rodgers.

566
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: So let me throw something at you. When he was hired,

567
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 2: I was told, I've said this on the air when mcveay,

568
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: Shanahan and Matt Lafleur were together. McVeigh was the culture guy.

569
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: Shanahan was the scheme guy. Lafleur was the nice guy

570
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 2: when he was in When he was in Tennessee and

571
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: went to Green Bay, I was told by somebody that

572
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: was very close to the situation that he didn't think

573
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 2: he was necessarily a great culture guy. He thought he

574
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: was a good guy, a smart guy, knew as shit,

575
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 2: but again not necessarily didn't know if he could build

576
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: his tough, relentless culture. I've said this about Lincoln Riley.

577
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: I know he's smart. USC leads the nation in offense regularly.

578
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: I know he knows his side of the ball. I

579
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 2: know he's smart. I've compared Lincoln Riley and Matt Lafleur.

580
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 2: I know they're good, and I know they're smart, and

581
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: they know quarterbacks on offense. I don't know there's a

582
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: great culture creator. Ben Johnson did it in a six weeks.

583
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: I mean they were a better football team in six weeks.

584
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: They literally eliminated negative plays in sacks. In the first

585
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 2: two weeks, they weren't gone out of the program. So

586
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 2: my thing is, when I watched Dan Campbell's culture bite

587
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 2: knee caps, top physical, I can see it. Vrabel clean

588
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 2: it up, no penalties top, I can see it. Ben

589
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: Johnson with Caleb in the offense, I can see it.

590
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: I can't with the floor. I see smart. I said,

591
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 2: good with quarterbacks. I see, you know, good guy, liked

592
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: by a lot of people. I don't see a great culture.

593
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 2: Is it fair for me to say that?

594
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: I agree percent And I'm not just blowing smoke Coulin.

595
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 3: I think he just nailed it.

596
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I hear about Matt Lafloor, what we

597
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: see about our own eyes when we watch the Green

598
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: Bay Packers looking five of their nine losses, they led

599
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: by nine plus points.

600
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,239
Speaker 3: Three times they lost when they didn't even punt. Like

601
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 3: if that's not coaching, I don't know what is. It's wow.

602
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 3: It is incredible what.

603
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: He did with Aaron Rodgers after a really messy breakup

604
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: with Mike McCarthy.

605
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 3: Now you're coming in with your offense.

606
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: If you got to blend it with Aaron Rodgers wanting

607
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: to do whatever the hell he wants to do with

608
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: the line of scrimmage. Somehow they made it work to

609
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: the point of what getting MVP awards, getting to Divisional

610
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: in conference playoff games.

611
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, we know.

612
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: I know he's good with quarterbacks. I watched him with Malik,

613
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: I watched him with Jordan, I watched them with Aaron.

614
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: It's like Lincoln Riley. I don't doubt that part the mvpiecet.

615
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 2: I don't doubt it. This is about culture, right, and

616
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: that's what I wonder about.

617
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. It's totally about culture. What

618
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: he did with Jordan Love hell. I remember doing this

619
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: podcast after that brutal Raiders game.

620
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 3: It was awful, and we're all wondering, where's Jordan Love

621
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 3: gonna go from here?

622
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: He developed three years behind the scenes and then the

623
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: three years as a starter.

624
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 3: He is, in my opinion, a top ten, maybe a

625
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 3: top five quarterback.

626
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: But you're you shouldn't lose a game when your quarterback

627
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: throws for what three hundred plus yards, four touchdowns and

628
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: no picks on the road and there.

629
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: Look, we can nit pick plays all day long.

630
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: If if Michael Parsons is on the field, he probably

631
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: creates a big play that wins you that playoff game.

632
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: If Romeo Dobbs recovers an on side kick, you win

633
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: that game. But when it happens repeatedly. Go back to

634
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: the Cleveland Browns game, they blow at ten nothing lead

635
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: to the freaking Browns with a.

636
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 3: Few minutes left. That is culture.

637
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: And I had a player tell me that he could

638
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: see and feel Matt.

639
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 3: Lafleur freeze up in his words, in big moments.

640
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: It's kind of like he there's a little there's a

641
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,959
Speaker 1: little bit of a tenseness, a little bit of a

642
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: panic in some of these moments.

643
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 3: Look, I think you can grow, you can evolve.

644
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: Maybe he can get that out of him that this

645
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: is last year that the player told me that.

646
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: But you watch these games and you see these finishes,

647
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 3: it makes you wonder. Right, that's the big gamble.

648
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: By end policy here is that Matt Lafleur will continue

649
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: to develop as a coach and with the healthy make

650
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: of Parsons he can figure this out. They've got the talent.

651
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: I don't think talent's a problem. I think that's why

652
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: Brian Gudkins was always safe. He's the one that put

653
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: his career on the line for Jordan Love when everybody

654
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: was calling him nuts, and he saw something he believed.

655
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 3: He's the one that's drafted all these wide receivers.

656
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: Look, if we want to, Doc Brandon Bean probably could

657
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: take a page out of that Gutikin's playbook. Just draft

658
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: receivers around your quarterback and let him develop together.

659
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 3: He's done that. They made the big.

660
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: Move for Parsons. It's on the floor to figure all

661
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: that other stuff out. And I think it is rooted

662
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: in culture, whatever you want to define it by. There's

663
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: something amiss in Green Bay because look, if the new

664
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: playoff rules weren't in, they're not even making the playoffs

665
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: the last three years.

666
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 3: They're part of the forty four percent club?

667
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: Is that seventh seed because they added another team?

668
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: And what kind of conversation are we having right now?

669
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 3: With all that?

670
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: Right, let's end on the Patriots. You've spent time there

671
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: as well. Tyler Dunn is joining us. Go long is

672
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 2: sub stack just does tremendous work. I didn't think it

673
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 2: was that difficult. They had a ton of cap space.

674
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 2: I thought Drake May was really good, so I picked

675
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 2: him as a playoff team. It was my sort of

676
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 2: I pick a team every year, my double your win

677
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 2: total team that nobody expects, and my two surprise picks

678
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 2: this year where Seattle would make the playoffs and be

679
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: much better than people think. A lot of that was

680
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 2: rooted in John Snyder's drafting, where I thought he hit

681
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 2: another great draft in April and I thought that's three

682
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: stacked in a row. They got too many good players

683
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: and I'm a Donald fan. And the other was New England.

684
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 2: I said they'll double their win total. I thought about

685
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 2: nine to ten. I didn't think they'd be this good.

686
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 3: I've made.

687
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: The old Patriots were fascinating because they were outside of Brady.

688
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: They weren't great anywhere, but they were good everywhere and

689
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: terrible nowhere. And I feel like I'm watching the same

690
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 2: same owner, same offensive coordinator. Vrabel's a more current player,

691
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: friendly Belichick, and Drake May's a younger, more mobile Brady.

692
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: Now will he ever be that productive? Point not? But

693
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 2: my takeaway on all this is the reason Rabel really

694
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: took this is because he made a few calls and

695
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 2: everybody said, Drake may is really really good, but you

696
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,919
Speaker 2: didn't know it because it was sporadic. Because a young

697
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 2: quarterback is as good as his coach, Caleb last year,

698
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: Caleb this year, Right, Like, you're as good as your coach.

699
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 2: Drake may had really bad coaching. Do you think when

700
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: you snoop around, like is the feeling we got Tom

701
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: Brady too?

702
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 3: Yes?

703
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: Two point zero And I.

704
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,439
Speaker 1: Think it's a perfect storm for a lot of those

705
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: reasons you just laid out. Let's start with Vrabel. So

706
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: what he inherited? Yeah, I mean it was a mess,

707
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: but you can even go back a year before that.

708
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: I've talked to co that were on that Drawn Mayo's staff,

709
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: and right, it is kind of ridiculous that Drown Mayo

710
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: wasn't more prepared when you know you're the heir apparent

711
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: and you're gonna take this thing over, and yet you

712
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: don't really have your staff all lined up. But the

713
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: problem was kind of like all Drod Mayo had known

714
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: was the Patriot way at the Belichick way of doing things.

715
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: He takes over this is this is the first time

716
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: that the Patriots are going through a wholesale coaching change.

717
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 3: Like that in decades.

718
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: So what I was told is like down to the

719
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: little things, like some of these coaches that had to

720
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: move their families, Like the moving expenses that the Patriots

721
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: were giving these coaches was laughable.

722
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 3: It was nothing because years, for.

723
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: Years and years and years, everything just kind of ran

724
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: through Belichick, everything with status quo, and nothing was really modernized.

725
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 1: I mean the sauna you've got like wood paneling and

726
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: two by fours falling apart.

727
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 3: That was kind of trash that the coaches are in

728
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 3: for the sauna.

729
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: The offensive line coach, I believe he wanted some new

730
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: equipment and even asking ownership or asking whoever is in

731
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: charge for some of this new equipment to use whatever

732
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: they know, fifteen thousand dollars. It just everything was everything

733
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: was a chore. Everything too too much time. Drawd Mayo's

734
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: kind of getting pulled in all these directions. The next

735
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: thing he knows, he's pissing away a day, two days,

736
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: three days on stuff that isn't football. So Drod Mayo,

737
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: you don't know what you don't know. He didn't really

738
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: know what kind of vision he wanted to have.

739
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 3: For the team. Mike Rabel came in. He knew exactly

740
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 3: how he wanted to build this thing.

741
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, he played for the Patriots, but he was the

742
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 1: coach for the Titans. He knows what works what doesn't work.

743
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: He had a staff ready to go. Josh McDaniels comes in,

744
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: and Josh McDaniels, they're sitting down him and Drake May

745
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: watching Tom Brady film right like you're running the same offense.

746
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 3: He played a lot of the.

747
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: Same teams and Josh mitatals. I'm sure you hear the

748
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: same thing. He's gonna be hard on you, man, like

749
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: he is old school. When he was Las Vegas head coach.

750
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: I had heard that he would just rip guys in

751
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: front of the team and it could make guys uncomfortable.

752
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 3: But Drake May can take it.

753
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: Drake May wanted it, and he wanted to have all

754
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: those answers to the test where I think like that

755
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: first staff and I've actually talked to T. C.

756
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:18,479
Speaker 3: McCartney about it. At the quarterbacks coach.

757
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: You know, they helped his footwork that needed reconfigured out

758
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: of North Carolina. They did some good stuff, but they

759
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: didn't ask him to handle a lot of the line

760
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: of scrimmage, right, Like Josh McDaniels is going to ask

761
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: you to handle a lot of the line of scrimmage.

762
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 3: He's going to ask you to read a defense.

763
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: So like, TC was really excited about where this thing

764
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: was going. He saw Drake's talent, called him one of

765
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: the smartest people in the entire building. But when we

766
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: chatted early in the season, he's like, you know, that's

767
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: a hard offense to learn.

768
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 3: They might need a weapon or two. We caught up.

769
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: Later in the season, he's like, he's there. He's one

770
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: of the best quarterbacks in the game. So it really

771
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: is a perfect storm. When you've got the fundamentals, you

772
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: can read a defense, you can spread it around, and

773
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: you've got Mike Vrabel running the show.

774
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 3: Buckle in because the pay going to be good for

775
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 3: a really long time.

776
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, for a really long time. I still think this

777
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: sounds crazy. I still think they're in a semi rebuild.

778
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 2: I think their offensive line needs needs to be fortified.

779
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 2: I think listen Will Campbell's a good left tackle. It

780
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 2: wasn't a great draft. I just think the old line's okay.

781
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: I actually wish they would have used Trevon Henderson a

782
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 2: little bit more. My guess was always they didn't because

783
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 2: he wasn't good in pass pro. I couldn't figure it

784
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 2: out because he's got a burst. They have Stevenson, so

785
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 2: I kept thinking I'd use him more because in some

786
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: of the games they used him, he was electric. But

787
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 2: they've got five or six rookies in a really average

788
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 2: draft actually playing a lot. I like their secondary. So yeah,

789
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 2: I think everybody thinks the Bills and the Ravens, Joe

790
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 2: Burrow and Harbaugh and Sean Payton are the ones that

791
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 2: are going to get in the way of Andy Reid

792
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 2: and Mahomes. I think it's New England. I think it's

793
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: Craft Vrabel May Josh McDaniel, I really do. I think

794
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 2: they're going to build a fortress, and I think they're

795
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 2: gonna they won't duplicate the first goal around. It's just impossible.

796
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 2: It almost it would be a ridiculous movie script to say,

797
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 2: you're gonna have twenty years two separate dynasties. But do

798
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: you think New England this year can win it?

799
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: You know what I went. I loved about Mike Vrabel.

800
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 1: He came in and I think a lot of folks

801
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: saw the speech he gave the team in the spring.

802
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: It hit so many of the write notes, but also

803
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: they on the practice field. Tamiko Ryan's kind of did

804
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: the same thing in Houston. He'll call you out like

805
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: if you're if you're tragging ass, if you're not going

806
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: through the echo of the whistle, he will pull you

807
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: aside I was told and say, look, no hard feelings.

808
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: If this isn't for you, we'll find a home for you.

809
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: But it's not here right. And you do that enough

810
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have the attrition you need to build

811
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: the team you need this time of year to win

812
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 1: it all. And look at it started with Robert Splaine

813
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: and Morgan Moses and Milton Williams and Carlton Davis. They're

814
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: signing all these guys who who fit the ethos of

815
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 1: everything Mike Vrabel wants.

816
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 3: I've sat down with Carlton Davis. I mean, this is as.

817
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: Throwback of a hardcore cornerback straight.

818
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 3: Out of the seventies that you can imagine.

819
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,399
Speaker 1: He might get three DPIs, but he's gonna get into

820
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: receiver's face. And he grew up in South Florida. Youth

821
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: football games are shootouts, breaking out. You're hitting the deck

822
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: hardcore stuff. You can see why Rabel likes a dude

823
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: like that, so he knows what kind of player he wants.

824
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 3: You know. What's also interesting Colin is.

825
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: Elliot Wolf is the gm son of the Hall of

826
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 1: Famer or he was there before Vrabel got there. Everything

827
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: I hear is that they've got a great relationship, and

828
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: you always wonder about that. Like in New York, Joe

829
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: Shane's there, John Harball comes in. John Harball wants to

830
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: that final say it. It sounds like Elliott Wolf and

831
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: Mike Rabel are even on the same page. It's I

832
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: think they beat Jared Stidham, they get to the Super Bowl.

833
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,439
Speaker 1: Loves Seattle's roster, Love Matthew Stafford. The Patriots are ready

834
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: to win it all right now.

835
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Seattle's got a good, very good roster. The best

836
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 2: roster left is Seattle. But they can be a little

837
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 2: reckless with turnovers and penalties. I would say the cleanest

838
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: team is LA. They had no drop passes, no turnovers,

839
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 2: no penalties in like minus eight degrees in Chicago, they

840
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 2: played perfect football. I think the team with the greatest

841
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 2: next five to eight year runway is New England, and

842
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: I think the Broncos are four of four, and there's

843
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: a reason they're an underdog with bow Knicks. I'd give

844
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 2: them a shot without bow necks. I don't Tyler Dunn

845
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 2: so good. This is just great forty minutes. It's great.

846
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: You're crushing anything else you want to promote fire away?

847
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 3: Okay, thanks so much, Colin. I always appreciate hearing from

848
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 3: Josh and the gang.

849
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: Love coming out the pod. You're the absolute best. What

850
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: you built up with the volume is fantastic. I should

851
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: just plug your stuff. I listened to Middlekoffs podcast a lot.

852
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 3: Man. Oh, he's a great dude.

853
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: So I've got a story up at golong tv dot

854
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: com on why Sean McDermott was fired kind of the

855
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 1: stuff we hit on here and a lot more behind

856
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: the scenes, the relationship that he had with Sean McDermott

857
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: and what he's like to deal with day to day

858
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: in addition to the defensive performances and y Terbagoule and

859
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: the Bills decided to do this al So, Yeah, I

860
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: always just trying to talk to as many people around

861
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: the league as we possibly can and go beyond those

862
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: press conferences.

863
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 2: GOLONGTD dot com.

864
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 3: Great stuff thanks so much Colm. The volume