1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. This is my gift to you, 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: Jason Kelly. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to connect 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: with our next guest. I've been reading his stuff for years. 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: Huge fan, totally unabashed. I'm just gonna say it. P 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: J O'Rourke. He's got a new book. It's called A 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: Cry from the Far Middle. It is out. You got 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: to pick it up because it captures so much, as 9 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: he tends to do, of the absurdity of our time, 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: but with such a rapier wit, as they used to say. 11 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: He joins us on the phone from New Hampshire. P J, 12 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: what a pleasure to have you here on Bloomberg Business 13 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: What a pleasure to be here, A pleasure to be 14 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: here Otherwise unpleasant times so unpleasant. It's so unpleasant. So 15 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: how do you even I mean, listen, if nothing else, 16 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of material for you. How do 17 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: you even go about attacking this right now? Yeah, it's 18 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: tough because everybody is so angry, and anger is not 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: the friend of the happy humorist m So you know, 20 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: it makes it really tough. It's not so much that 21 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: I'm worried about offending people. It's just that I'm I'm 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: worried about people being in any kind of mood to receive, 23 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: receive any kind of lightning up um about anything. Well, 24 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: you know, that's such a good point, you know, PJ. 25 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: Because people it's like, you know, I try to have 26 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: conversations with people, and it gets so heated and angry 27 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: so quickly. I'm like, lighten up. We're discussing things, and 28 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: you're gonna have maybe a different opinion. I'm gonna have 29 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: a different opinion, but let's let's discuss it is. We've 30 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: got the whole nation involved in that kind of fight 31 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: that those of us have been married for a long 32 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: time cannot help but be familiar with this kind of fight. 33 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: It starts out over like whether we should slip cover 34 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: the couch, and by the end of the fight, it's like, uh, 35 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: And not only that, I remember when you flirted with 36 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: that girl at that party in nineteen and you leave 37 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: wet towels all over the bed and your socks are 38 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: all over the floor, and it's it's the kitchen sink. 39 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 1: You know, we're throwing the kitchen sink at each other 40 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: and uh, we we we we better stop that. The 41 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: other thing for it is, I don't get what the 42 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: causes really, I mean, in a way I do. I 43 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 1: Trump is shall we say that he's a somewhat divisive president? 44 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: I could probably go that far. I get that. And 45 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: then the pandemic has got everybody cooped inside, like seething 46 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: with grievances, you know, and like letting their minds run 47 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: on all the things that make them angry and stuff. 48 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,559 Speaker 1: But you know, really we're not facing a huge external 49 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: threat at the moment where you know, wors overseas were 50 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:58,119 Speaker 1: winding down. China is a worry, you know, but it's uh, 51 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's just a word. It's not you know, 52 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: it's not an imminent throughout I don't think. Uh. The 53 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 1: economy was perking along pretty well, and it shows some 54 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: signs of being able to reperk um uh And you 55 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: know why are we so mad? So you take to 56 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: this on directly in your book, And the essay that 57 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: I love the most is whose bright idea was it 58 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: to make sure that every idiot in the world was 59 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: in touch with every other idiot? Social Media, I have 60 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: to think is responsible for part of this right, social 61 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: media has got lots and lots to blame. You know, 62 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: I grew up. I'm I'm I'm old. You know, I'm 63 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: seventy two years old. So I grew up in like, 64 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: you know, the fifties and sixties, and there was this 65 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: wonderful idea that we would all get along better if 66 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: we could just communicate, you know, if the generation gap 67 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: could be closed with communication, if we could just talk 68 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: to the Soviet Union, you know, if if if if races, 69 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,839 Speaker 1: if people from different races would just communicate with each other. 70 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: And there was this big star, Malcolm mclowin, you know, 71 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: who had the whole idea that that that television would 72 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: create a global village. And we all thought, oh, this 73 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: is just genius. This is just wonderful, and it gives 74 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: me excuse to sit around and watch TV. And what 75 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: thing is is that we were We knew about Marshall mcgloon, 76 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: but we hadn't read him, because if you read him, 77 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: Marshall McLellan, he was. I found a radio interview with 78 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: him actually where a Canadian radio broadcaster says, I thought, 79 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: you said, we're gonna have a global village, and there's 80 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: almost like war and Hadrian rioting and stuff. You said 81 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: we're gonna have a global village, and mcglellan goes, I 82 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: said we were going to have a global village. I 83 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: didn't say the villagers would like each other. Right. Um, 84 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: there's one essay. It's the inaugural address. I'd like to 85 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: hear the president, whoever it may be, deliver. Um. PJ. 86 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: You do write a lot about politics, and you know, 87 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: there's so much in here that I love, But there's 88 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: also one that I'm just trying to find. I had 89 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: a line highlighted just this reminder of the government is 90 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,679 Speaker 1: more than just one individual, even though that's who we elect. 91 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: And you know, just tell us about kind of how 92 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: you look at politics right now and what you kind 93 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: of want to get across to Americans with your writings. Well, 94 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: a lot of the things about the presidency is we've 95 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: just allowed it to grow into some sort of cult. 96 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: You know, it's almost like a shi Jing king or 97 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,799 Speaker 1: or or Vladimir Putin, where the President of the United 98 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: States becomes like this sort of sacred king who is 99 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: responsible for our well being of our entire country. And 100 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: and of course if anything goes wrong, we we we 101 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: take that sacred king, and we sacrifice him. Um uh, 102 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: actually what we We don't kill him the way that 103 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: primitive societies do. We just give him a giant book 104 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: contract for a really really boring book. But you know 105 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: what I mean. And the thing is that that's not 106 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: how it works. If you read the Constitution, it's you 107 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: get you get about five pages into the Constitution before 108 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: the president is even mentioned. You know, you know, he's 109 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: a chief executive. He's not the chairman of the board. 110 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: We're the chairman of the board. He's he's just the 111 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: chief executive. And he's supposed to make the laws that 112 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: we make in Congress. He's supposed to make sure that 113 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 1: they're put into force. Yes, he's the commander of chief 114 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: during wartime, but it's Congress that has the power to 115 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: to declare war, not the president. They should remember that 116 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: every now and then when they're they're when they're griping 117 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: at the president for the wars that he's had, that 118 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: they've got the power. And uh, yeah, this was never 119 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: meant to be some sort of of of of weird 120 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: kingship or or or our cult of personality for good 121 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: or for real. You know, we're not supposed to worship 122 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: the president and we're certain and we're not supposed to 123 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: revile him. Um, he's he's he's just he's got a 124 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,239 Speaker 1: corner office. But you know, he depends on us for 125 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: for to do all the work. And yet p J. 126 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: As I think about it, and and I am conscious 127 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: of the fact that I and Carol make our living 128 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: in the in the media, and you make your living, 129 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: you know, in and around the media. And I listened 130 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: to you and wait, wait, don't tell me, and I 131 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: love those appearances. But you know, from McLuhan to Facebook 132 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: to Twitter, like the media broadly defined is certainly, if 133 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: not complicit in all of that, or is complicit maybe 134 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: and and and maybe responsible for the way that this 135 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: has been a little bit warped. We probably should all 136 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: be grounded without TV for at least a month, right, 137 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: and take away our phones. Right. I'll take my share 138 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: of the blame here. I'm not I'm not not picking 139 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: on you guys, but the um, yeah, we we get 140 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: obsessed with trivia and then you know, of course, there's 141 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: always been that thing in the media where if it bleeds, 142 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: it leads Naturally we love a disaster. But then there's 143 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: also this thing that has emerged more recently. If it 144 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: sleas it leads, and um, yeah, I don't think that 145 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: uh many members of the media could could could say 146 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: of the media as a whole. I mean, I think 147 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: we each try and do our own job as well 148 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: as we can. But overall, the media gets is easily distracted. 149 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: It's getting sort of Facebook brain, you know where it's 150 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: so easily defind Twitter or Twitter brain worse than Facebook brain. 151 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: Facebook at least has some pictures of grandchildren. Uh so 152 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: it's the it's the last thing anybody said, it's the 153 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: last thing anybody heard, and uh, you know, end depth 154 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: reporting is is is hard to find, and impartial reporting 155 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: is hard to find. Um, journalists, I'm old enough to 156 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: remember when journalists like really looked down on partisan politics, 157 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: and the idea of a journal having partisan politics would 158 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: be really like the I don't even know what to 159 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: compare to exactly, would be like, uh, a journalist having 160 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: like a favorite European soccer team. We have a few 161 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: of those. Actually, yeah, well, listen, one thing I want 162 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: to ask you, and you you know, you end up 163 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: this new book, um that's out with a bunch of 164 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: your essays, and you end with and I'm an optimist, 165 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: and I know, Jason is to what I like about 166 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: you USA, and you say three things I like about 167 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: America fast food, suburban sprawl, and traffic jams. Um. We 168 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: haven't seen a lot of traffic jams because of the virus. 169 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: Um suburban sprawl, though we're thinking we might see a 170 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: little bit more of because of the virus. As people 171 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: he's moving out in the gundry, even if the country 172 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: is only as far as Levittown, best get out of town. Well, 173 00:09:58,280 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: you know, and it's interesting, and you write, you do 174 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: a pre preface if you will, in your book, because 175 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 1: you say you wrote these essays in nineteen and then happened. 176 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: As we know, it's been a year of just one 177 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: you know, explicative and one an unbelievable story after another, 178 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: and a lot of heartache, if you will. And I 179 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: think we're all wondering what happens on the other side. 180 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: You know, what are your thoughts about this year? Well, 181 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: it rights itself, you know, I mean, people say, oh, 182 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: America is so divided. America has never been this divided, 183 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: And I go eighteen sixty one, I'm not sure America 184 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: has ever been Having survived the sixties in the early seventies. 185 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: America is a ship that's got a lot of keel 186 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 1: to it, and we may take on water from the right, 187 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: take on water from the left. We have a tendency 188 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 1: to right ourselves. It's very important to remember America is 189 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: not some country that once all where everybody all got along. 190 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: That that ever ever happened from the moment that the 191 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: colonists landed here and started to to fight with the 192 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: people who were already here, who were defeated not in 193 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: battle but by disease and demography. And then think about 194 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 1: all the people in America. I mean, some came here 195 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: a scam artist, some came here as religious nuts. Some 196 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: came here uh totally unwillingly. We're dragged here as slaves. Uh. 197 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: Some of us here were forced. My family was forced 198 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: by poverty, the Irish Potato family, um. Some people forced 199 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: by bigotry, oppression at home, or pure lack of opportunity. 200 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,839 Speaker 1: Were completely random bunch of people turned loose into huge place. 201 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: We hate each other. I mean, you know, in a 202 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: nice and most of the time in a pretty nice 203 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: and civil way, but every now and then it bursts out. 204 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: We've never been there, We've never had this like golden 205 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: age where we all got along, and I just think 206 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: we should go back to arguing in a civil you know, 207 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: see each other in a civilized manner. Yeah, well, here's 208 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: hoping and we just discuss exactly, let's just have a conversation. Well, 209 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: really really great to catch up with you. What a 210 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,719 Speaker 1: treat for us. Thank you so much. The book is 211 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: called A Cry from the Far Middle Dispatches from a 212 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 1: Divided Land p. G. O. Rourke. Um, you know I 213 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: should have said this at the top. I read Parliament 214 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: of who made me want to be a writer? You know? 215 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: I was going to study politics in Washington and listen, 216 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: I still have it. It's a it's a gem, and 217 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: it's about the government and how it works or doesn't work. 218 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: I gotta love a guy who says America is a 219 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 1: ship that has a lot of keel to it. Jason, 220 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: that is going on our T shirt list. There you go, 221 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,599 Speaker 1: it's on the T shirt list, p Ark. He's the 222 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: best