1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: The first day of former President Trump's impeachment trial has 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: just come to a close, and we are joined here 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: by one of the jurors to help us break it 4 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: all down. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz. I think 5 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: I've heard it before. I think I've said it before, 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: maybe almost exactly a year ago, on the very first 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: episode of this show. Is that not word for word, verbatim, 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: exactly how Verdict began. It is because, you know, Senator, 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: it would seem that we are just stuck, suspended in 10 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: mid air in this country. Nothing is changing. I have 11 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: to tell you, when we started this show, it was 12 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: because the first I'm going to start singing, I got you, babe. 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: It's just going to keep on and on. When we 14 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: first started, I had no idea really what was at 15 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: play in that first impeachment trial, and that to me 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: seems clear cut compared to this second sort of impeachment trial. 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: I guess the biggest question on people's minds is is 18 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: this even an impeachment trial? Because obviously Trump is not 19 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: the president anymore. You were there all day, we are 20 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: we are doing exactly what we did a year ago. 21 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: We were here in the middle of the night. You've 22 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: just left the capital. Now, I will say it is 23 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: much more humane. So so when we started this last year, 24 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: I think it was two thirty seven in the morning 25 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: when we started this, it's now, what is it, ten 26 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: twelve pm? Much more recent. I you know, that's positively civilized. 27 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: Does that tell you something about the seriousness of this 28 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: impeachment trial? Yes, luck, To be honest, both sides are 29 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: dialing it in. Okay. The end result of this is 30 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: is preordained that this trial, as Shakespeare put it, is 31 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: full of sound and fury signifying nothing. Senator, you know, 32 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: I'm not the most literary guy in the world. I 33 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: thought that was William Faulkner who said that I was. 34 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 1: I was reading a tweet from Andream Mitchell on NBC. 35 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: She seemed to want to make fun of you and 36 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: attribute that quote to Faulkner. It really was a pretty 37 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: stunning exchange. So this happened a little over an hour ago, 38 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: and I guess Andrew Mitchell decided that she was going 39 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: to upbraid me and demonstrate her intellectual superiority and better learnedness. 40 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: And you know, apparently she does not. Ironically, I didn't 41 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: know this. She has a degree in English literature, American literature. Well, 42 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: that would explain and so and so Faulkner she knows. 43 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: But but but apparently Macbeth she does not know. She 44 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: does not. I think actually there is something in this 45 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: exchange that tells us a lot about the whole impeachment trial, 46 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: which was this this combination not just of ignorance but 47 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: also arrogance to correct someone who's using the correct quote. Well, 48 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: life is a tale told by an idiot, full of 49 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: sound and fury signifying nothing. Wow, and one would think 50 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: not only ABC. Jennifer Rubin at Washington Post chimed in, 51 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: agreeing with Andrew Mitchell, it really is kind of amazing 52 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: that between NBC and the Washington Post nobody has actually 53 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: read Macbeth. I'll tell you, Senator, if you spend as 54 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: much time in the media and around journalists as I do, 55 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: not surprising at all, Absolutely not surprising. Well, and you know, 56 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: I will say, nothing is better than when Ernest Hemingway wrote, 57 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: is this a dagger? I see before me the handle 58 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: towards my hand. Come, let me clutch THEE. I have 59 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: THEE not and yet I see THEE still. I thought 60 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: that was JK. Rowling because I don't know. I said, 61 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: we could go through the whole literary canon. You know, 62 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: this does, though, this issue of ignorance and arrogance, It 63 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: does bring me back to the question of the trial, 64 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: because I'll confess to ignorance here. I don't get it. 65 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: I don't know. Is this thing constitutional? Is it unconstitutional? 66 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: Is the Senate have the right to hold the trial? 67 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: Can there be an impeachment trial of an ex president? 68 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: What you were there all day? What's going on? So 69 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: those are really important questions, and we actually address those 70 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: questions yesterday. So the trial itself started today. Yesterday we 71 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: had essentially a pre trial motion, okay, and an argument 72 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: about whether the Senate even has jurisdiction to consider this matter. 73 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: And what's it hard in the argument is is that 74 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: Donald J. Trump is no longer the president. And so 75 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: the argument that the Trump legal campaign made is that 76 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: the Senate doesn't have the jurisdiction to try a former officeholder, right, 77 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: that jurisdiction only extends to current office holders, and once 78 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: he left the White House, the Senate could no longer 79 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: have an impeachment trial. So this has been my understanding 80 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,119 Speaker 1: of it. But you know, I didn't go to law school, 81 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: and I'm no constitutional expert. Well, and you know, it's interesting. 82 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: The constitutional question is actually very close. It is a 83 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: difficult question. It's not a question I had examined until 84 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: till we were faced with it. And I got to say, 85 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: as I looked at it, I actually think the better argument, 86 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: on the substance and on the merits it is that 87 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: the Senate does have the jurisdiction to try a former officeholder. Okay, 88 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: that being said, I don't believe the jurisdiction is mandatory. 89 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: I don't think we have to take it, and so 90 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: I don't think we should take it. Let me walk 91 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: through that, because those are some complicated legal Conscis Wells, 92 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: and I want to point out generally speaking, you've heard 93 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: people it's it's binary. They'll say, either the Senate has 94 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: no jurisdiction here, this is a force of a trial. 95 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: Or the Senate not only has jurisdiction, but we have 96 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: to do it. It's our constitutional responsibility to throw Trump 97 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: in the gulag. And you, as far as I can tell, 98 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: this is a unique legal take. Hey, yeah, it may 99 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: well be. Although actually Mike Lee, by colleague, he and 100 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: I are very close to agreement on this. We've talked 101 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: about this a lot. Mike is a serious legal scholar, 102 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: clerk for Justice Sam Alito on the Supreme Court. Mike 103 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 1: and I have spent many, many hours talking about this issue, 104 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: and his view and mine are very very close on this. 105 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: Let me start on just the threshold question. Do you 106 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: have jurisdiction? So if you look at the constitutional text, 107 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: you can take arguments from the text on both sides. 108 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,799 Speaker 1: So the Constitution says the House shall have the sole 109 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: power of impeachment and the Senate shall have the sole 110 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: power to try all impeachments. Interestingly, those are the only 111 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: two places in the Constitution you find the word soul power. 112 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: And so it's just impeachments. House is entirely in charge 113 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: of impeachments, the Senate is entirely in charge of trying impeachment. 114 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: Nobody else has power. Right And actually, even on this point, 115 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: I think it's worth clearing up because because we use 116 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: these terms in a loose way, Trump has already been 117 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: impeached shrecked twice, correct, because that the House voted they 118 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: impeached him, he was in office both times. Then there's 119 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: the trial. He's been acquitted once during the first episodes 120 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: of verdict. And now the question is will he be 121 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 1: acquitted or convicted? And this is one of the things 122 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: most misunderstood just in sort of general Marlans. But to 123 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: be impeached, think of it like in the criminal context, 124 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: to be indicted, like if the grand jury indictes you, 125 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: it means they bring charges against you. If you're indicted 126 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: for running over somebody's dog, doesn't mean you're convicted, it 127 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: means you're charged with it. And then when you have 128 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: a trial, if you're convicted, is when you're found guilty. 129 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: So the House impeaches, which is to bring the charges, 130 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: and the Senate conducts the trial. Now, there are a 131 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: couple of textual arguments that were raised as to why 132 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: former officeholders do not fall into the impeachment power. One 133 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: is that another portion of the Constitution refers to the 134 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: president rather than a president, right and Donald J. Trump 135 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: right now is not the president. There's only one the 136 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: president in any moment in history. Today, Joseph Biden is 137 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: the president. Trump is a former president. That's a textual 138 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: argument that is used to say, well, he's not the president, 139 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: so he's not subject to impeachment. What that as it 140 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: actually says, though, is when the president is impeached, the 141 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: Chief Justice shall preside. Because Trump isn't the president, the 142 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: Chief Justice is not presiding. Right. There is another provision 143 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: that says that when the president is impeached and convicted, 144 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: he shall be removed. It uses the word shall. Yeah, 145 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: so the argument is made, well, shall, but he can't 146 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,679 Speaker 1: be If he can't be removed, that means you can't 147 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: remove an X officeholder. Look, that's a real argument. That's 148 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: a substantive argument. On the flip side, As we said, 149 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: he's not the president, he is a former president. If 150 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: you look at the history, as you examine it at 151 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: the time the Constitution was written, it turns out the 152 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: question of what's called late impeachment was actually a topic 153 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: of discussion. Can former officeholders be impeached? If you look 154 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: to British common law, and the Framers were very familiar 155 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: with British common law, and often when you're interpreting US 156 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: constitutional provisions, you look to what where did it come 157 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: from under British law, because many of the concepts the 158 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: Framers took from British law. And there were two very 159 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: notable British impeachments. One was in seventeen twenty five, and 160 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: that was Lord Chancellor Macaelesfield who was impeached for public corruption. 161 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: It's very well known impeachment. Now, yeah, I knew all 162 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: about it. I was, you know, I talked about it. 163 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: You know, is there a day you don't talk about 164 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: the Michaelsfield impeachment. Well, Michaelsfield was impeached after he left office. 165 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: A second impeachment was the impeachment of Warren Hastings. Now 166 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: Warren Hastings was the Governor General of India. Interestingly enough, 167 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: his impeachment began in seventeen eighty seven. So literally, while 168 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: the Framers were in Constitution Hall in Philadelphia and in 169 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: the debates of the Constitution, they discuss the impeachment of 170 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: Warren Hastings. Now Hastings likewise was no longer the Governor General, 171 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: and yet nonetheless he was impeaching. By the way, do 172 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 1: you know who led the charge to impeach Hastings? Who 173 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: someone you're a big fan of? Would this be Edmund 174 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: Edmund Burke, a great considered the founder of modern conservative philosophy. 175 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: Very it's actually very important context for how these Framers 176 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: are thinking about that. So they're literally talking about at 177 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: the Constitutional Convention the impeachment of an out of office officeholder. 178 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: And by the way, right after the founding eighteen oh 179 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: six in Great Britain, Lord Melville was impeached as well, 180 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: so very shortly thereafter. So you've got a fair amount 181 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: of history with British common law, and then you look 182 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: at US history. The first impeachment we have was of 183 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 1: Senator Blunt of Tennessee, and he was impeached. He was 184 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: actually impeached because he tried to essentially sell Florida and 185 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: Louisiana away from the US, and and he was impeached. 186 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: He was thrown out of the Senate. The guy was crooked. 187 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: This is like when someone says, you know, if you 188 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: believe that I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, 189 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: he tried to sell. He tried to sell a bridge. 190 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: And so there was a big debate during the Blunt impeachment. 191 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: So Blunt was impeached, the House brought charges, the Senate 192 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: expelled him because he was a senator, and then there 193 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: was a big debate on jurisdiction. There were two arguments 194 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: on jurisdiction, One that the Senate couldn't impeach him, because 195 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: he was a senator, and that impeachment didn't apply to 196 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: members of Congress. It only applied to members of the 197 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: executive branch or the judicial branch Okay. And then secondly, 198 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: an argument that was given was he couldn't be impeached 199 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: because he was no longer in office, or he couldn't 200 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 1: be tried. Rather, the Senate ended up voting by a 201 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: vote of fourteen to eleven that the Senate did not 202 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: have jurisdiction over Blunt Okay. That has both arguments were presented, 203 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: so it's not necessarily conclusive. But the predominant arguments that 204 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 1: were raised was that he was a enitor, and so 205 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: it was a comment about what kind of job he 206 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: had rather than being a former office holder. One other 207 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 1: major president eighteen seventy six, Secretary of War, William Belknap, 208 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:18,239 Speaker 1: now Belknap resigned, was crooked, was caught in corruption, was impeached, 209 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: and the Senate actually had two weeks of debate over 210 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: whether a former officeholder could be impeach because Nap argued, 211 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: I'm out of office, you can't impeach, And the Senate 212 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: ended up voting thirty seven to twenty nine in favor 213 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: of jurisdiction in favor of saying we can try a 214 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: former officeholder. So as I look at this the textual 215 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: language of the Constitution, there's some ambiguity, but the grant 216 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: of power to the Senate is really broad. The Senate 217 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. That's 218 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: a very broad power. Given the history of British common 219 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: law in American history, I think the better constitutional argument is, yes, 220 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: you can try a former officeholder. And let me give 221 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: an example. Imagine we discovered we found evidence that a 222 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: former president had sold American nuclear secrets to the Chinese government. Yea, 223 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: that they were guilty of treason and bribery both, and 224 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: the evidence was conclusive. And by the way, treason and 225 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: bribery are both mentioned explicitly in the Constitution as grounds 226 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: for impeachment. I think in those circumstances, the House would 227 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 1: conclude overwhelmingly it had jurisdiction to impeach them. The Senate 228 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: would conclude overwhelmingly it had jurisdiction to try them, even 229 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: though they were a former officer. Right, So I concluded. 230 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: I wrote an op ed last night laying out these 231 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: arguments as to why I think the right constitutional argument. 232 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: It's close, but I think the right argument is, yes, 233 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: we have jurisdiction over a former officeholder. I think you've 234 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: actually managed to change my mind on this in this discussion, 235 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: because I was leaning very much text of the Constitution 236 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: certainly made it seem to me as though Senate doesn't 237 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: have jurisdiction. But when you factor in British common law, 238 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: when you factor in these other debates that were happening 239 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: at the time, that is a compelling argument. And yet, 240 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: and yet, so yesterday I voted against jurisdiction. Yes, And 241 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: the reason for that is, generally speaking, there are two 242 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:30,119 Speaker 1: kinds of jurisdiction, mandatory jurisdiction and discretionary jurisdiction. Okay, Mandatory 243 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: jurisdiction means you must take the case if you have 244 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: the authority to take it. You must take the case 245 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: and you have no choice. Discretionary jurisdiction is you have 246 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: the authority to take the case, but you can choose 247 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: whether or not to hear it. And the easiest example 248 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: is the US Supreme Court. The vast majority of the 249 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: US Supreme Court's docket is discretionary jurisdiction. We heard a 250 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: lot about this during the election. Right, there were these 251 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: cases that the Court didn't take. The Court didn't take. 252 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: You were actually slated to argue one of the the 253 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: Court said, no, thank you, we don't want to hear it. 254 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: In any given year, the Supreme Court will get about 255 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: eight thousand what are called petitions for sirtiori, which are 256 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: requests for the Court to exercise its discretionary jurisdiction to 257 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: hear a case. Ye, out of those eight thousand, the court, 258 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: here's about one percent. It here's about eighty out of 259 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: those eight thousand, so seventy nine hundred. It says, go 260 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: jump in a lake. Right, as I look at the Constitution, 261 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: there's nothing in the Constitution that says we have mandatory 262 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: jurisdiction the Senate has to take a case. It says 263 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: the Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. 264 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: It's up to the Senate. The Senate makes those determinations. 265 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: And so what I argued to my colleagues, and actually 266 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: at lunch today, I made this argument to all of 267 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: my colleagues that, for what it's worth, here's my thinking 268 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: that in this case, we should not exercise jurisdiction. We 269 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: shouldn't take up the case and the reasons we shouldn't 270 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: take it up. Our number one, the House had zero 271 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: due process. Yeah, they considered it for seven days. They 272 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: heard no witnesses, they held they held no hearings, they 273 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: examined no evidence. This was a political impeachment. It seems 274 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: as though they're sort of changing their arguments. Maybe we'll 275 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: get into that a little bit on just what happened today. Yeah, 276 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: but yeah, it just it seems it seemed like a 277 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: shallow process in the House. And I don't think the 278 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: Senate is obliged. Look this precedent. You know, this has 279 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: also been called a snap impeachment, where they just vote 280 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: out an impeachment because we hate the guy. I don't 281 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: think the Senate has any obligation if the House engages 282 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: in a sham proceeding to conduct a full trial. I 283 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: think we are perfectly justified in saying we are declining 284 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: to exercise jurisdiction over this because it doesn't meet the 285 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: threshold of a credible, real serious impeachment right. Secondly, on 286 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: the merits, I think there is no serious argument that 287 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: this meets the legal threshold for impeachment. There's only one 288 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: count that the House alleges, which is incitement insurrection, incitement 289 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: to to riot and violence. Now there clearly was riot. 290 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: There was a terrorist attack on the Capitol. It was horrific, 291 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: and you know today, so we went through eight hours 292 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: of the House Manager's arguments and they did an effective job. 293 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: Let me start by saying that they look Democrats have 294 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: a lot of trial lawyers, and they had some trial 295 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: lawyers today that were good storytellers who were emotional. I mean, 296 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: they got up, they walked through, they were well organized, 297 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: and it was We watched a lot of videos today. 298 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: They seemed to rely a lot on these very charged 299 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: videos that drove evoke a lot of emotions, and it 300 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: was powerful. It was horrified. I mean there were a 301 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: lot of moments in the Senate where you could hear 302 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: a pin drop because you're watching this and it's horrific. 303 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: It's horrific seeing violent criminals and terrorists assaulting, beating police officers, 304 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: loudly proclaimed their desire to carry out murder and succeeding 305 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: in murdering one police officer and injuring over a hundred. 306 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it was all of us, and I think 307 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: all of the country who watched today was horrified. At 308 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: what happened, and that this was a grotesque terrorist attack 309 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: carried out by violent criminals who should be fully prosecuted 310 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: and spend a long, long time in jail, I think 311 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: is unequivocal. Sure, but the emotional effect of the videos 312 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: and even the stories that these impeachment managers were saying, 313 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: it's not the same thing as an argument that the 314 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: president committed an impeachable offense. Well, and ninety plus percent 315 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: of the time of the house managers today was on 316 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: how horrific the attack was and if we were impeaching 317 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: you know, the guy with Viking horns that were beating 318 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: people up, Sign me up? Where do I vote? Right? 319 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, incitement. The standard 320 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: for incitement is it has to be a very direct 321 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: call for violence. And if you look at what the 322 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: president said the president and listen the president's rhetoric at times, 323 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: I think is overheated. I wish some of the things 324 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: he says, some of the things he tweeted, I wish 325 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: he didn't say and tweet. But if you look at 326 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: what he actually said at the speech on January sixth, 327 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: the Democrats are making a big deal of well, he 328 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: kept saying fight. You need to fight, like hell yeah. 329 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: Let me tell you. If we take every person who 330 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: has ever said you gotta fight, you gotta fight like 331 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: how you gotta win, We gotta take our country back, 332 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: you would literally be prosecuting every single political candidate in 333 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: America for incitement. Like I guarantee you of all the 334 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: all fifty Democratic senators, every single one, and if you've 335 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: ever given a stump speech, if you ran for seventh 336 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: grade class, President, I'm willing. I'm willing to Batmichael. You 337 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: stood up and said we gotta fight. Yes, I did, 338 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: and I won my race. Darn it there, because it's 339 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: effective political rhetoric and everybody does. It is ubiquitous. It 340 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 1: is commonplace language to say fight. In this case, President 341 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: Trump said peacefully. He explicitly said peacefully. It was not 342 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: a call to violence. And where the House Manager's argument 343 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: falls apart is whatever standard. They haven't really articulated a 344 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: standard for incitement. Maybe they'll do that tomorrow, but they 345 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: haven't even tried to say, this is how you distinguish 346 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: ordinary political speech or even hot rhetoric, I mean, from 347 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: truly criminal incitement. Any standard they would articulate right after 348 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: this trial, we better start moving forward against Nancy Pelosi, 349 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: at Maxine Waters and Chuck Schumer, Hillary Clinton for them, 350 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, Kamala harrisy Booker. Look you look at Nancy 351 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: Pelosi called police officers Nazis. Yeah, there's some rich irony. 352 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: Now all these Democrats are defending police officers given a 353 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: year of vilifying cops and saying abolish the police and 354 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: acab their motto, all cops are bastards is what that 355 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: stands for. And these are now the defenders of law enforcement. 356 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: I mean it. You know, if God were still in 357 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: the business of throwing lightning bolts, some Democrats might have 358 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: been struck down. Right. You look at Chuck Schumer who 359 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: went to the steps of the Supreme Court, called out 360 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: two Supreme Court justices by name and says, you have 361 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: unleashed the whirlwind and you will pay the price. He 362 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 1: threatened them directly. Now look that if what Trump said 363 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: is incitement, what Schumer said is inside. Well. Maxine Waters 364 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: said when you see Republicans in public, go up, get 365 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:56,719 Speaker 1: in their face, or started confrontation, she explicitly urged violence. 366 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: And I'll tell you Kamala Harris, who the media is 367 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: right now in the midst of beatifying Kamala Harris when 368 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: we had violent riots, and we had for a year 369 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: riots across this country. City's being burned, mostly peaceful police cars. 370 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: CNN apologizing for him, like crazy police cars being firebomb 371 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: police officers being murdered, and these Democrats who are now 372 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: high and mighty, we're apologizing for celebrating, encouraging Kamala Harris 373 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: raised bail money, yeah, to bail out not the peaceful protesters, 374 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: the violent criminals. So it was literally after they had 375 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: committed acts of violence, she was raising money to bail 376 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: them out. Now, the truthful matter, the truthful assessment of 377 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: it is none of this is incitement. But there is 378 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: no coherent standard that says what Trump said his incitement 379 00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: and what Kamalin Schumer said is not. You can't have it. 380 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: You can't have The only people guilty are the ones 381 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: politically I dislike. And that's really what the Democrats are. 382 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: This is the issue because I don't think any Republicans 383 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: out there are really saying we need to kick Corey 384 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: book or out of the center because you know, he 385 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: said something one time, but they're actually believe in free speech. 386 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: Even don't speech you have a right right to it. 387 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: But if we're going to take this unprecedented action impeach 388 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: a former president now a private citizen in Florida for 389 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: this language where he said maybe it was overblown at times, 390 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: but he did say at the moment, be peaceful, don't 391 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: be violent. If we're going to do that, why on 392 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: earth are we letting Nancy Pelosi off the hook? Hillary Clinton, 393 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: Maximars all these people. Because this is not a legal argument, 394 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: it's not a constitutional argument, and it's not a principled argument. 395 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 1: There's a reason why ninety percent of what they did 396 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 1: today was emotional. It was just designed to have you go, 397 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: oh my god, this was horrible. Yeah, and it was horrible. 398 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: It was a terrorist attack. Now there is a difference, 399 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: which is that you and I and most people on 400 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: the right unequivocally condemned this violence. It's bad. And let 401 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: me be clear, whoever is responsible for killing officer sick Nick, 402 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: assuming it was deliberate. I think those facts are still 403 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: being investigated, But assuming it was deliberate, I'd execute for 404 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: murdering police officer as far as I'm concerned. If that's 405 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 1: deliberate and not, maybe the facts come out that they 406 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: was somehow accidental, in which case it wouldn't fall under 407 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: capital punishment. You'd instead prosecute them and put them away 408 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: for a long time. But you and I are perfectly 409 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: happy to unequivocally condemned the violence. The difference with the 410 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: Democrats is most of the Democrats still haven't condemned the 411 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: violence and rioting of BLM of Antifa. When they agree 412 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: politically with someone, violence somehow doesn't count. So the Democrats 413 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: seem to not have any coherence standard here, and the 414 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: Republicans seem not particularly interested in this. I know there 415 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: were a handful of Republicans who seemed GungHo on the 416 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: impeachment trial, but most seem really uninterested. I think there 417 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 1: was a report that some Republican senators were like reading 418 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: books today, gazing off in the distance. Yeah. Look, to 419 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: be honest, that's a little bit of gotcha journalism. It 420 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: was okay, so when you were in the room, you 421 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:15,919 Speaker 1: saw Yeah, so I was in the room. We were 422 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: all sitting at our desks. Most senators were at their 423 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: desks the entire time. People would occasionally get up and 424 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: go to the restroom. Look at the median age and 425 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: the senators about ninety seven, so people have to go 426 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: to the restroom. You know, you would also have so 427 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: periodically you would get up and go in the cloak room. 428 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: It's something we talked about in the last impeachment trial. Yeah, 429 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: there were multiple times during the trial when I went 430 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: back in the cloak room. I went back to talk 431 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: with Lindsey Graham, went back to talk with Rand Paul, 432 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: I went back to talk with John Kennedy. I don't 433 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: want to ask for tales out of school here, but 434 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: I do can you give us anything of what was 435 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: going on? You know, I don't necessarily want to get 436 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: into it because a lot of what I was talking 437 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: with them about was strategy for the next couple of days, 438 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: about where the arguments are going, what are the responses. 439 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: Although look, a lot of what we were talking about 440 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: is some of what we're saying here, which is the 441 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: double standard that that that by any measure, um, you know, 442 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 1: Lindsay was pointing out that that I guess one of 443 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: the people who was bailed out from this fund that 444 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: Kamala raised money for went out and committed violence and 445 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: yet another riot and injured somebody else. So, I mean, 446 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: it was it was not you know, not just once 447 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: but twice. Yeah. Um, and so we were talking about 448 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: we're going to have probably on Saturday, four hours of questioning. 449 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: Remember the first impeachment trial, we had centator questions and 450 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: so a lot of what I was talking with Lindsay 451 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: and John and Rand about is what sort of questions 452 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: to ask you. But there's a fair amount of that 453 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: strategizing that goes on just off of the just off 454 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: of the floor in the cloak room. Now. I know 455 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: some reports are I mean, you have to take it 456 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: with a grain of salt because it's the left wing media, 457 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: but that the House Impeachment managing. They're doing a great job. 458 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: As you say, it was emotionally persuasive, if not logically 459 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 1: all that persuasive. So how long is this going to go? 460 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: Is there any chance that the Democrats succeed? Or is 461 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: this full of sound and fury signifying nothing? So stop 462 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: quoting Funer. So I don't think it will go much longer. 463 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: I think we are likely to be done Saturday night. Yeah, 464 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: So what's currently scheduled. The House managers have two days 465 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: sixteen hours to present their case, so we're one day 466 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: into it. Yeah, they have tomorrow we'll go I guess 467 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: as we'll wrap up eight or nine o'clock tomorrow night, 468 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 1: and then Trump's lawyers have sixteen hours over two days 469 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: to present their case. I think it's quite likely Trump's 470 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: lawyers will not take the whole sixteen hours. I think 471 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: virtually every senator thinks they should not take the whole 472 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: sixteen hours. When that is completed, there will be a 473 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: vote on whether we should call a aditional witnesses now 474 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: right now. My understanding is the Democratic senators don't want 475 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: additional witnesses, so everyone expects that vote to be now. 476 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: Remember we had a big fight and the last one 477 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 1: about calling witnesses, right right, But is the idea here, 478 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: what's the point? What would be the point of additional witnesses? 479 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: I think so, And I think also I think a 480 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: lot of the Democratic senators wish they weren't there that 481 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 1: this impeachment. Look, if you're a Democrat, your guy just 482 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: won the White House, you've got a new administration, you're 483 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: getting new Democratic cabinet members, you've got a Democratic majority 484 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: in the House, and you just got a Democratic majority 485 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,719 Speaker 1: in the Senate. So they're a bunch of Democratic senators 486 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: who suddenly are committee chairman. They have gavels. They want 487 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: to get onto the business to destroying the country and 488 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: and by the way, that is what they're going to 489 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: be doing, right, But they are eager to pass their 490 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: radical agenda. Yeah, and this is just sort of an impediment. 491 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: There's a waste of time for that. I think they're frustrated. 492 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: It was really the House Democrats that drove this. They're 493 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: so the House Democrats are just consumed with hatred for Trump. Yeah, 494 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: and so I think the Senate Democrats felt like they 495 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: didn't have much of a choice. They had to go 496 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,239 Speaker 1: through with it. I don't get the sense Biden's very 497 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: happy about this. I mean, you know, look, if you 498 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: were you know, we were in week three of the 499 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: Knowles presidency, I don't know that you would be all 500 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: that interested in impeaching former President Ben Shapiro would be like, well, 501 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: you know, in that specific case maybe, but but of course, 502 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: if you if you get in there, you say, especially 503 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: if someone like Joe Biden has been running for president 504 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: since nineteen eighty eight, right, it's been a long time. 505 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: This guy knows what he wants to do. He wants 506 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: to wield the power, and he's got to hold up 507 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: to keep talking about the guy that he just booted 508 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: out of the White House. The way, you know, Biden 509 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: was accused of plagiarism too, just like Andrew Mitchell accused me. 510 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: So maybe that augurs well for future future political endeavors. 511 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: But look, Biden wants to get on with it. I 512 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: think there are a lot So my sense of the Democrats, 513 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: they don't want to see witnesses. We don't want to 514 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: see witnesses. I think we'll vote on that. I think 515 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: witnesses will they will not be called, and then we'll 516 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: have four hours of questioning. And the way the questioning 517 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: works is it alternates Democrat republican, Democrat Republican. Under the agreement, 518 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: if we seeded back our time, you just have four 519 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: hours of democratic questioning. So I don't think we'll do that. Yeah, 520 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: I think if we could actually give back our time, 521 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: we might, but given that we'd just be giving it 522 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: to the Democrats, I think we're unlikely to do that, right, 523 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: And then my guess is at the end of that, 524 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: which will be probably Sunday evening or Saturday evening, I 525 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: think we'll vote, and to cut to the ending, Donald 526 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: Trump will be acquitted. You're confident there's no it is 527 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: to convict Trump takes sixty seven votes, There's not going 528 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: to be sixty seven votes. There's gonna be fifty five 529 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: votes to convict him. And I'd say plus or minus two, okay, 530 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: So it could be as high as fifty seven, as 531 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: low as fifty three. It ain't getting close to sixty seven. Yeah, 532 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: And we actually saw a proxy of that. We've had 533 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: two votes now on the jurisdictional question. The first vote 534 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: there were fifty five votes on jurisdiction. Actually, the second 535 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: vote there were fifty six. And I think those are 536 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: proxies for where the final vote is going to be. Well, presumably, 537 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: if you're one of the forty five senators who said 538 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: the Senate doesn't have jurisdiction here, can't imagine you're going 539 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: to vote to convict, right, you're saying the whole trials 540 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: of Farus, one would certainly think so. Yeah, but who knows. 541 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: I mean that's why I say plus minus two. I 542 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: mean you could have one or two who changed their mind. 543 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: You know, you look at the first vote we had 544 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: was a procedural vote on the jurisdictional question. Right at 545 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,719 Speaker 1: the outset that there were forty five the vote yesterday, 546 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,719 Speaker 1: they were forty four. Bill Cassidy, Republican from Louisiana, who 547 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: sits next to me on the floor, he changed his vote. 548 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: And the reason he changed his vote he thought the 549 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: Trump lawyers did terribly. You know, Bill's kind of an 550 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: interesting guy, Bills a doctor. He's listening to the two 551 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: sides and he just said, well, gosh, you know, the 552 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: Democratic lawyers did a much better job than than the 553 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: Republican lawyers. And he said, so I'm going to vote 554 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: for them. This is something that surprised me the first 555 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: time we did this, you know, a year ago, which 556 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: is that it does matter what arguments people are making 557 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: in the room. You know, these are these are real 558 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: people in the room. They're responding in real time. Maybe 559 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: in this case it's not going to be enough to 560 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: change the outcome, but it does matter. It does matter, 561 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: and it matters probably more for those without legal training 562 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: and a deep constitutional background. Bill's a very talented doctor. 563 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: If we were having a couple of people arguing about 564 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: the right medical procedure to do, I wouldn't know anything. 565 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: I guess I'd have to depend on whoever presented the 566 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: best argument. If I were asked to judge, yeah, right, 567 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: how to treat some disease or injury. I'd have to 568 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: listen to the like the size and go. I don't 569 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: know what that guy sounds like. He knows what he's 570 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: talking about, particularly with those look for for people who 571 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: have a lot of experience in these issues. Frankly, the 572 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: arguments of the lawyers, you listen to them. But I'm 573 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: spending time studying the text of the Constitution, the history. 574 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: I'm assessing the arguments on my own. And so this 575 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: is not a debate tournament. You're You're not filling out 576 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: a ballot for who gave the best speech. You're trying 577 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: to reach the right conclusion, right, And so I felt 578 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: very comfortable with the conclusion how I voted yesterday, which 579 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: is no jurisdiction. Otherwise, I said, not that we don't 580 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: have the authority, but that we shouldn't exercise jurisdiction. And 581 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: I'm very comfortable that on Saturday or whenever we vote, 582 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: that I'll vote not guilty. And I think there will 583 00:33:55,520 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: be the president will be acquitted. I think one were 584 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: as always over time, but one important mail back question. 585 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:04,719 Speaker 1: But before we do that, I do have to tell 586 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: you kind of a funny thing that happened at the end. Okay, 587 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: so we are almost completely done, and in fact, Jamie Raskin, 588 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: the lead Democrat House impeaching manager, stands up and says, okay, 589 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: we're done for the day. We can wrap up, and 590 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: everyone's relieved because they finished a little bit early tonight. 591 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: They went, they didn't go quite as long as they 592 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: had told us they would. And as we're getting ready 593 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: to leave, Mike Lee stands up and he raises an objection. 594 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: So in the course of the Democratic House Manager's presentation, 595 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: they talked about on January sixth, right as the Capitol 596 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:46,959 Speaker 1: riot was beginning, that President Trump called Mike Lee's cell 597 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 1: phone and he was looking for Tommy Tubberville, the new 598 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: senator from Alabama, and apparently the White House had the 599 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: wrong number. So like Trump calls and says Tommy, and 600 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: as they relayed, Mike said, no, no, it's not Tommy, 601 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: it's Mike. Leave. But here, let me give you Tommy. 602 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 1: It's so brought the phone over and put Tuberville on 603 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: the phone with Trump, and so they relay that those events, 604 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: but the Democratic House Manager also describes some things that 605 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: he says. Mike Lee said and I guess this came 606 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: from some newspaper article about what Mike said contemporaneously at 607 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: the time. So Mike got up and raised an objection 608 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: and said, I asked for this to be stricken from 609 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: the record because I didn't say that it's a lie, 610 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: it's false, there's no evidence of it, and I asked 611 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: it would be stricken from the record. Now this is 612 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: where so everyone's kind of confused and not sure, And 613 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,760 Speaker 1: this is where some of the dynamics you gotta understand. Normally, 614 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: the presiding officer would be the chief Justice who is 615 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 1: prepared to make rulings and has legal training. Because the 616 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: Chief Justice is not there because Donald Trump is not 617 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: the president today, the presiding officer is Pat Lahey. Now, 618 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: Pat lay He is the President pro tem. He's the 619 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: most senior, most centered her in the majority. Now, by 620 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: the way, he is also a partisan Democrat who's already 621 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: said that that Trump should be convicted. So pause for 622 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: a moment to think about what kind of fair and 623 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: impartial judges that who's a juror in the case and 624 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: has already stated before it starts that he wants the 625 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: defendant convicted. The whole things even more ridiculous actually than 626 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: already does. It is a big talk top circus. So 627 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 1: lay He is kind of confused and he's not sure 628 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 1: what to do. So the Senate Parliamentarian sits right in 629 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: front of lay and look, Pat's not a spring chicken 630 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: President pro tem never is. Definition. They are the most 631 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: senior senator in the majority, and so they're typically in 632 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,240 Speaker 1: their high ad s Senate Parliamentarian and we've talked about 633 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: her quite a bit on verdict as well. She hands 634 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,479 Speaker 1: lay He a piece of paper that she's written that says, 635 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: under the agreement for the trial, the House managers are 636 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: not required to limit their arguments to the record, so 637 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:12,919 Speaker 1: the I rule your objection out of order. Now, Mike 638 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 1: is like, what are you talking about. I'm not saying 639 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: that it's not in the record. I'm saying it's false. 640 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: I'm saying they said something about me that's a total 641 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: lie and there's no evidence of and and lay He 642 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,800 Speaker 1: is just kind of confused, dazed, and so he reads 643 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,959 Speaker 1: the same ruling again, which is just the pretyight piece 644 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,439 Speaker 1: of paper the parliamentarians handed it. At that point, Mike 645 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: stands up and says, I appeal the ruling of the chair, 646 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: which is, at any point a senator can appeal the 647 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: ruling of the chair and it goes to a vote 648 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:46,359 Speaker 1: to the body and lay. He's kind of moving forward. 649 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: The parliamentarians like, all right, fine, asked for the yas 650 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: and days, which is you have to have sufficient senators 651 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: raise their hand and second it. Yeah, and if there's 652 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: enough seconds, then you have a roll call vote and 653 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 1: everyone votes and we all second it, and they start 654 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: the role call vote. Now Chuck Schumer is looking at 655 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: this going, wait, oh crap, this is a problem, and 656 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,399 Speaker 1: it's a problem on a couple of fronts. Number one, 657 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: just on the merits. It's a little bit ridiculous that 658 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: you've got a senator who you're saying a House member 659 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: came and said something totally false about me and it 660 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: should be out of the record. That's pretty messed up, 661 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: right by the way, Joe Mansion, a Democrat, stands up 662 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: and says, well, what was false about it? And so 663 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: it's chaos on the floor. But Mansion's concern, like, you know, look, 664 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: no senator wants House members to come into proceeding and 665 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: just say stuff about libel on the record. So on 666 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,359 Speaker 1: the substance, Schumer recognizes it's a problem. Not only that 667 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: if we have a vote lay, he's going to have 668 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: to vote. Yeah, House a pat going to vote on 669 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,959 Speaker 1: whether to overrule his own ruling. And it really does 670 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: underscore how asinine it is to have a partisan Democrat 671 00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,919 Speaker 1: presiding over this impeach the judge right. Not only that 672 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: if it ends up being a party line vote, that 673 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 1: all the d's vote one way and all the urs 674 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: vote the other way, that's a fifty fifty vote. So 675 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: maybe they have to call Kamala Harris. You have the 676 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 1: presidence president to break the time. So it was it 677 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: was chaos and they're just going ahead with the vote, 678 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: and Schumer, to his credit, and you won't hear me 679 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,720 Speaker 1: off and praise Schumer, but I will say Schumer stepped 680 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: in the way a majority leader like if they don't 681 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: like what's going on, they stand up and say, I 682 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: suggest the absence of a quorum, which is sort of 683 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: magic words that pause everything. It's just like hitting pause, right, okay, 684 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: and the clerk starts calling the role just if they're 685 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,280 Speaker 1: to see if there's a quorum. By the way, everyone's 686 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: in the room, like everyone knows, yes, there's no one 687 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: disappeared in the There are a hundred senators in the room, 688 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: but when you suggest the absence of a quorum, it 689 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,319 Speaker 1: like freezes everything. And so Schumer goes over to the 690 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: house managers. He's like, guys, this is stupid. Come on, 691 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: why are you doing this? Look like I mean, he's 692 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: talking to the to the House Democrats and do you 693 00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,439 Speaker 1: care about this? And they're like, no, we don't care 694 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: about it. So then he goes talk to Mike, and 695 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 1: Mike's Matt. I love Mike, but he's emotionally He's like, 696 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: they said something about me that's false and I wanted 697 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 1: about that in the wreck. I understand that. Yeah, And 698 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: Schumer do his credit, says all right, I'll tell you what. 699 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,799 Speaker 1: He tells the house managers you withdraw it, and Mike, 700 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: will you withdraw your objection? Mike says all right, and 701 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: so they get up and they have Jamie raskin lead. 702 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: House managers say we withdraw it, and so Mike withdraws 703 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: its objections. So that's how the night ended. And it's funny. 704 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,879 Speaker 1: Mike was still pissed and I'm like, Mike, you won. 705 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,399 Speaker 1: Like they surrendered, They withdrew it and took it out 706 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: and and Franklin I was telling one of the Democratic 707 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: senators after I said, look, Schumer was really smart to 708 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: do that. That was the right thing to do. Clever guy, 709 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: no question. But so that's just a bit of huh. 710 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: It was the night, you know, people were kind of 711 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: it woke everyone up and startled everyone because it was 712 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 1: a bit of drama and chaos that no one knew 713 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: what would happen. And then it got resolved. And it's 714 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: a sort of it's a minor issue, I mean relatively 715 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 1: that some journalists live and some house impeachment manager live. 716 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: Mike Lee was upset about it, but it raises all 717 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: of these major issues about the nature of this impeachment trial. Well, 718 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: and it does, and it also shows, you know, things 719 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 1: seems so ordered and structured. It was chaotic. Yeah, like 720 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: nobody knew there. So when Mike appealed the ruling of 721 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: the chair and the clerk starts calling you know, miss bald, 722 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 1: when mister Barrasso starts calling the names, you know, Schumer 723 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 1: gets up and goes, what was the ruling of the chair? 724 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: Like we didn't know what we were voting on, Like 725 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: how do you vote yes or no? If usually things 726 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 1: are more orderly, but it was truly chaotic where no 727 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,839 Speaker 1: one even knew whether to vote yes or no because 728 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: we didn't know what the chair had ruled and what 729 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,920 Speaker 1: we were like, what yes or no means? You know it. 730 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: I think it's a good symbol of the of the 731 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 1: entire impeachment trial. Yeah, I also have to say, this 732 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: may be the first episode where you have changed my 733 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: opinion about something from the beginning to the end of it. So, 734 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 1: because we've been dealing with these very intricate, sophisticated issues 735 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,279 Speaker 1: and arguments, I want to end, even though we're way 736 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: over time, I want to end on what I consider 737 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 1: to be a much more important question. You're spending what 738 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: eight hours it a clip or more in these kind 739 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,440 Speaker 1: of long proceedings from Brian, how's the food in the 740 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 1: Senate cafeteria crappy? So it's actually normally quite good in 741 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 1: normal times we have lunch together, the Republican senators have 742 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 1: lunch together Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and the food's quite decent. Thursdays, 743 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,720 Speaker 1: a different Republican senator hosts it, and so you bring 744 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: in and often you'll fly in food from your home state. 745 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: So I've flown in barbecue and Mexican food, and you 746 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: host it and you normally give a goodie bag of 747 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: treats to your other senators and you'll give, you know, 748 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. I've given people shiner back, we 749 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,919 Speaker 1: give each other lots of liquor. It's interesting that I've 750 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,480 Speaker 1: given salsa and things from Bucky's and you kind of 751 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 1: from your state. You get up and bring them stuff 752 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,240 Speaker 1: Tuesday and Wednesday that the Senate food is usually quite 753 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:13,399 Speaker 1: good that we eat. Because of COVID, we're eating all 754 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:18,800 Speaker 1: prepackaged stuff and so like for lunch today, I had 755 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: well and I'm also trying to do kind of keto. 756 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 1: I'm trying to avoid cars. We're all trying to do keto. 757 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 1: You know, we hear it's supposed to work, and it's hard. 758 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,240 Speaker 1: And so I come in and the choices are really 759 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,480 Speaker 1: like I got a salad, which I hate salad. I 760 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: feel like it was the food that you I know, 761 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,400 Speaker 1: I tell Heidi all the animals I eat or vegetarian. 762 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,280 Speaker 1: And then they had like this sort of shrimp salad 763 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: sandwich that was like packaged, and to be honest, it 764 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,320 Speaker 1: was almost like what you'd see and like a grocery 765 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 1: like a gas station. Yeah, and since I'm doing keto, 766 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: I just scraped this shrimp stuff off the like, didn't 767 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 1: eat the bread. So it was I will be glad 768 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,719 Speaker 1: when COVID is over and meals can return to some 769 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 1: semblance of normals. Senator, of all the stories that I 770 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 1: expected to hear today about this awful, just disgusting impeachment trial, 771 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: I didn't realize the food would really it would be 772 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: as grotesque it would match in So for dinner tonight, 773 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,359 Speaker 1: because we did have a dinner break, they had something 774 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,360 Speaker 1: where you could order some stuff. I actually had a 775 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 1: guy on my staff go down to Union Station and 776 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,200 Speaker 1: get a cheese steak with no bread, just cheese steak 777 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: on a bed a lettuce and so just chopped up 778 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 1: beef and cheese and that that was my dinner, which 779 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: we went to Union Station to get that, frankly sounds 780 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,320 Speaker 1: more exciting. It was good. Then the entire impeachment trial 781 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 1: you really have, that you've really really explained it to me, 782 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: makes me. It makes me actually long for this impeachment 783 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,880 Speaker 1: trial to continue, because I wanted to stave off whatever 784 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,399 Speaker 1: kind of crazy legislation the Democrats want to push on us. Well, 785 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:56,880 Speaker 1: it's coming and there's going to be a lot to 786 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 1: talk about. But but we did get a chance to 787 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,920 Speaker 1: do quite a bit of loggeek stuff and I know 788 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: it's well, you always enjoy doing it because you know 789 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:05,880 Speaker 1: all this stuff, and I always enjoy it because I 790 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 1: don't know any of it, so it's pretty helpful to me. 791 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: But there will be there will be a whole lot 792 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: more once this silly season is over, and that will 793 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 1: have probably far greater consequences for the country. We'll have 794 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 1: to wait until then. I'm Michael Knowles. This is Verdict 795 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:32,680 Speaker 1: with Ted Cruz. This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz 796 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,840 Speaker 1: is being brought to you by Jobs, Freedom and Security Pack, 797 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,800 Speaker 1: a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations, 798 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 1: and candidates across the country. In twenty twenty two, Jobs 799 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: Freedom and Security Pack plans to donate to conservative candidates 800 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,880 Speaker 1: running for Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.