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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Today, we are talking

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Speaker 1: all things whales. I know that seems a little bit different,

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Speaker 1: but as we talk about how the world is changing

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Speaker 1: and weather and environment and climate and all of those

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Speaker 1: things have been changing, obviously, there have been a lot

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Speaker 1: of people that have said, Okay, what are the alternatives

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Speaker 1: that we can use to try to make sure that

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Speaker 1: we don't see a lot of these changes. And one

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Speaker 1: of those alternatives that we've seen is windmills. This is

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Speaker 1: something that we talk about a lot in Michigan because

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Speaker 1: there's been discussion in Michigan of putting windmills into Lake Michigan,

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Speaker 1: and people are concerned about what that means. We've talked

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Speaker 1: a lot about how the environment has been affected by

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Speaker 1: manufacturing and how manufacturers in the United States have changed

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Speaker 1: over the years to run cleaner manufacturing. And I know

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Speaker 1: this because I come from a steal foundery and I

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Speaker 1: know the changes that we made over the years to

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Speaker 1: make sure that we were running a clean factory. What

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Speaker 1: I love about the United States is we're always innovating.

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Speaker 1: We're always looking for ways to make things better, more

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Speaker 1: so than other countries, and I think that's important to

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Speaker 1: keep in mind when we have this discussion that sometimes

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Speaker 1: our innovations, while they may be different than what we're

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Speaker 1: using at the time, they may not be the right answer.

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Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean we should stop innovating and looking

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Speaker 1: for the right answer. And if you look at the

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Speaker 1: United States, like compared to China, we are doing things

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Speaker 1: leaps and bounds beyond them. When it comes to taking

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Speaker 1: care of the environment, it's a constant and ever changing battle.

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Speaker 1: But one of the things that we have seen is

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Speaker 1: that some of these environmental changes have other environmental consequences.

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Speaker 2: It was interesting because just yesterday I.

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Speaker 1: Was meeting with a guy and he said, I said, well,

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Speaker 1: what do you think will happen with ev vehicles? And

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Speaker 1: he said, you know, as we're doing more studies, and

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Speaker 1: he was putting in some of the high powered chargers,

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Speaker 1: and he said, now we're kind of backing off of

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Speaker 1: that because as we're doing more studies, we're finding that

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Speaker 1: these high powered chargers for electric vehicles, when they charge

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Speaker 1: them in fifteen minutes, because of the amount of power

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Speaker 1: that you have to put into the car, that heats

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Speaker 1: up the battery. He said, the batteries then don't last

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Speaker 1: as long. But heating up the battery also causes gases,

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Speaker 1: and we end up with environmental issues from what's coming

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Speaker 1: off of the battery.

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Speaker 2: So we're learning, we're always learning.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that there are people on a partisan issue,

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Speaker 1: that there are people on one side or the other

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Speaker 1: that are.

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Speaker 2: Saying don't do this.

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Speaker 1: It's just is it always the best thing in every situation,

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Speaker 1: And that brings us to the whales. And I wanted

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Speaker 1: to intro this that way because I want you to

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Speaker 1: know that we're not talking about this from a partisan

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Speaker 1: standpoint today. We are talking about this from the standpoint

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Speaker 1: of our wildlife. And we have seen issue hues in

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Speaker 1: the ocean where they've been putting these windmills with whales.

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Speaker 1: So I am so excited that Amy Decibio, she's a

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Speaker 1: board member for Act for Whales and they are based

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Speaker 1: in Nantucket Island, Massachusetts. I'm so excited that she's here

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Speaker 1: to talk to us today because I think we're all wondering, Amy,

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Speaker 1: what's happening. We see all these things, all these articles

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Speaker 1: and all these newscasts saying, oh more whales washed up

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Speaker 1: on shore, and we have beached whales and we have

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Speaker 1: dead whales.

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Speaker 2: What's going on. Give us a little background on us.

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Speaker 3: First of all, Tudor, thank you very much for having

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Speaker 3: me on. And it's interesting to be representing an organization

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Speaker 3: that's far from Michigan, but yet this is going to

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Speaker 3: be an issue everywhere in the United States. And I

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Speaker 3: think you said the most important thing earlier, this should

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Speaker 3: not be a part is an issue. There's nothing part

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Speaker 3: is in about protecting the environment. Everyone should want to

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Speaker 3: protect the environment, and I don't think what we really

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Speaker 3: want to do is attempt to solve a problem that's

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Speaker 3: potentially not solvable by this and create another huge breath.

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Speaker 3: So our organization has sort of stepped in to this,

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Speaker 3: as many other organizations have backed for Whales has formerly

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Speaker 3: been known as Residents against Turbines. We try to have

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Speaker 3: a little bit more of a positive message. But you know,

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Speaker 3: and we do do not call them windmills. These are

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Speaker 3: wind turbines. These are power plants that are being constructed

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Speaker 3: in our waters. And it's beyond just the size of

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Speaker 3: an individual turbine, and you know, in our case, there

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Speaker 3: will be thousands of them up and down the East coast,

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Speaker 3: and the size of these things are huge. If you've

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Speaker 3: seen turbines on shore. They're tiny ones off the coast,

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Speaker 3: are you know, eleven hundred feet tall to eleven hundred

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Speaker 3: and some even taller than that. Some of them models

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Speaker 3: are even larger than that. So imagine the support and

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Speaker 3: the pile driving that has to go into the bottom

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Speaker 3: of the ocean to support something like that, and the

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Speaker 3: girth of the you know, the turbine stanchions themselves. These

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Speaker 3: are cash machines, you know.

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Speaker 1: You you talk about that, and it's funny because you

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Speaker 1: said they're huge. And in my mind, I'm thinking of

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Speaker 1: all the windmill farms that I drive by in the

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Speaker 1: state of Michigan as I go through the state, and

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Speaker 1: we have in Wisconsin has a really large turbine farm.

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Speaker 1: I guess that's what we call them. We call them

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Speaker 1: wind farms. But when you go past them, they're they're

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Speaker 1: massive and and I think people, if you haven't seen

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Speaker 1: these these wind mills or turbines, then I can see

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Speaker 1: how you think it it is a windmill. I see

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Speaker 1: why you don't use that term, because a windmill is

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Speaker 1: it's a small little fan really that is going around

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Speaker 1: and it kind of has this nostalgic feel.

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Speaker 2: But these things are massive.

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Speaker 1: I mean just one blade is like the size of

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Speaker 1: three football fields when that they're on land. I think

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Speaker 1: the other thing that people don't realize is that they're

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Speaker 1: constantly making noise. So it's not and that is disruptive

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Speaker 1: to animals. It's not innocent. It's not out there doing nothing.

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Speaker 1: We think of it as so natural, but it's not

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Speaker 1: natural to machine out there in the ground. And now

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Speaker 1: we're talking about them in the ocean. Another thing to

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Speaker 1: remember with these turbines is that they light up at night,

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Speaker 1: and that is something that in Michigan when farmers saw

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Speaker 1: this and they looked out and here they had this

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Speaker 1: beautiful piece of property and then they see all these lights.

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Speaker 2: Well it bothers us.

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Speaker 1: From an aesthetic standpoint, but it really messes with our animals.

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Speaker 1: It messes with our birds, with migration, with all of

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Speaker 1: these things. And I think that we just don't talk

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Speaker 1: about this. And the reason we're starting to find out

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Speaker 1: that we don't get to hear as much information about

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Speaker 1: this is that some of these groups that have always

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Speaker 1: been in defensive animals. Money always plays a factor, right,

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Speaker 1: and there's a lot of money in this. So these

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Speaker 1: corporations are getting big grants from the government, billions of

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Speaker 1: dollars of grants for the gut from the government, and

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Speaker 1: so some of these nonprofits that have always been we've trusted,

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Speaker 1: they've always been in defensive animals, they're now in defense

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Speaker 1: of equipment that is hurting our animals. But in some

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Speaker 1: cases it does come back to money. But what you

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Speaker 1: said about the turbines in the ocean, I was reading

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Speaker 1: that some of them are taller than skyscrapers, and that

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Speaker 1: is shocking to me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the height of the wines in the ocean, I mean,

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Speaker 3: you know, you know, if you've been to New York,

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Speaker 3: you know it's the height of the chrystl they're building.

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Speaker 3: They are very tall. But just to look back on

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Speaker 3: something that you just said, Yes, there have been tons,

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Speaker 3: you know, billions and billions of dollars allocated from our

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Speaker 3: US government that you know is being allocated to these

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Speaker 3: energy companies. And I think people should understand in almost

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Speaker 3: all the cases, at least off the East Coast, the

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Speaker 3: energy companies that are doing this are foreign energy company.

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Speaker 3: So it's wow, more tax dollars funding you know, the

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Speaker 3: Inflation Reduction Act, and then that money is in turn

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Speaker 3: being allocated to foreign energy companies. Secondly, you touched on

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Speaker 3: something else that's very important, that the wind companies have

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Speaker 3: been very strategic and there have been a lot of money, yes,

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Speaker 3: that's been placed into tried and true big NGOs you know,

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Speaker 3: Sierra Club, you know, you know some of the Audubon societies,

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Speaker 3: green Peace, you know, and these tried and true organizations.

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Speaker 3: Many of the aquariums up and down the East Coast

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Speaker 3: I can speak of there and maybe you'll see the

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Speaker 3: same thing around the Great Lakes. But these are tried

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Speaker 3: and true, trusted organizations that really impact decision making by

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Speaker 3: both legislators and the public. So if the public is

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Speaker 3: not hearing anything, and everybody seems to want clean green energy,

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Speaker 3: which of course we do, but make sure that this

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Speaker 3: is clean green energy before we make a huge ofvot

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Speaker 3: because the damage is real.

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Speaker 1: Well, because something you said that I just want to

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Speaker 1: kind of explain to our audience because they may not understand.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you have heard negative things about oil drilling,

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Speaker 1: You've heard about fracking, you've heard about the pressure that

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Speaker 1: it puts on the earth, You've heard about all of

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Speaker 1: these complaints. I ask you to think what is different

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Speaker 1: when you think about the massive to erect a building

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Speaker 1: the size of the John Hancock Building in the ocean.

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Speaker 1: Imagine what you have to do to the earth because

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Speaker 1: and we're not talking about one of these turbines. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about twenty four hundred turbines. So this has to

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Speaker 1: go into the ocean. And this is disturbing all of

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Speaker 1: the wildlife that lives in the ocean. And we don't

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Speaker 1: know what the impact of this kind of noise, this

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Speaker 1: kind of vibration does to these creatures, but we do

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Speaker 1: know that something is happening with the whales. The whales

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Speaker 1: are just, to me, the biggest creature that we get

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Speaker 1: to see, so we know because we see it. So

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Speaker 1: how many other creatures are in the ocean that this

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Speaker 1: pounding and these And I think the other thing we

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Speaker 1: need to remember is they don't last forever. So when

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Speaker 1: you hear about people, well we have to move and

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Speaker 1: drill for oil in another spot. Turbines last about thirty

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Speaker 1: to sixty years. Then you got to rip it out

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Speaker 1: and put a new one in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Tutor, I would say a couple of things.

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Speaker 3: It's beyond just the pile driving. They're all interconnected by

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Speaker 3: high voltage cabling, so there's plowd driving that goes on also,

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Speaker 3: and it's extensive and that you know, it interconnects all

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Speaker 3: of them. They go to substations, and the substations you know,

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Speaker 3: jack up the juice and then high voltage tables have

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Speaker 3: to land on shore, you know, come into communities, you know,

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Speaker 3: somehow attached to the grid. So it's a very robust buildout.

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Speaker 3: I mean to really, the fair term for this is

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Speaker 3: it's a power plant. It's they're absolutely industrial power plants.

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Speaker 3: There's kind of no other way to look at it.

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Speaker 3: And you know, we firmly believe that this has been

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Speaker 3: already that just the even the survey work, because before

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Speaker 3: they even in the construction, the survey work alone is

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Speaker 3: you know, is can be damaging to hearing for marine life,

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Speaker 3: and you know, we believe that that's what's caused a

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Speaker 3: lot of the whales that have beached themselves along the

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Speaker 3: East Coast over the last year, well last years, but

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Speaker 3: this particular, this last year has been crazy. And the

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Speaker 3: reality is the wind companies and the government know that

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Speaker 3: this is risky business. The wind companies apply for incidental

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Speaker 3: harassment authorizations and they are granted them by the US government. Agencies,

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Speaker 3: So there is an expectation these They make a whole

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Speaker 3: spreadsheet and say we think we'll harm you know, we're harassed.

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Speaker 3: This many minky whales, they go by species, this, many

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Speaker 3: North Atlantic right whales, and you know this, many dolphins.

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Speaker 2: This.

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Speaker 3: They go up and down and come up with you know,

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Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of species that will be impacted by this.

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Speaker 3: So when these whales show up dead along the beach,

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Speaker 3: it's disheartening at the very least, but disturbing that everyone,

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Speaker 3: you know, the powers that be all turning around and say, well,

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Speaker 3: you know there's nothing to see here. This can't be that,

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Speaker 3: you know, caused by you know, the survey work or

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Speaker 3: the construction of an offshore power plant. Well, I would

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Speaker 3: say that we think otherwise. And you know, we work

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Speaker 3: with a coalition Save the Right Whales coalition. It's an

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Speaker 3: organization that encompasses many groups up and down the East coast.

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Speaker 3: There was a report, I Marie, you know, we did

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Speaker 3: a report, an actual study, and it shows a very

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Speaker 3: high correlation between whale dusts and the traffic, the extra

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Speaker 3: traffic that's seeing caused by offshore wind work. So you know,

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Speaker 3: we think that at least we should be putting these

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Speaker 3: projects on hold and taking a much better look and

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Speaker 3: to see what's happening.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

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Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Well, there has to be a

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Speaker 1: discussion out there that pollution comes in more than one form.

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Speaker 1: I a few years ago, I was at a it

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Speaker 1: was a National Geographic presentation on light pollution. And to

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Speaker 1: be honest, I was there with a bunch of Republicans

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Speaker 1: and I could tell they walked in and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, the word pollution, and people just get kind

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Speaker 1: of turned off by that and don't understand it. They

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Speaker 1: don't understand pollution. By the end of this discussion, it

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Speaker 1: was amazing. This man had done such a beautiful job

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Speaker 1: of explaining what was happening. He was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I take pictures for a living, and I've watched the

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Speaker 1: migratory patterns of birds and bees. And he said, because

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Speaker 1: we're using these new LED lights, we have this light

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Speaker 1: pollution and it is confusing our birds, but also our

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Speaker 1: honey bees. And so because our honeybees are getting confused,

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Speaker 1: they're not pollinating our crops. And at the end of it,

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Speaker 1: and you know, people were going, oh, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: that's something different than what we understood before.

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Speaker 2: We thought light pollution.

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Speaker 1: Meant it's just hurting our eyes, you know, or we

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Speaker 1: have too much light, we're not seeing the stars. Never

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Speaker 1: really got it full understanding of the definition of that.

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Speaker 1: And I remember I went up to him afterward and

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Speaker 1: I said, you know, you said things that I don't

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Speaker 1: think any of us have ever thought about. This is

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Speaker 1: putting our food supply at risk. And he said, do

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Speaker 1: you think if I explained it in those terms, people

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Speaker 1: would understand it in a different way. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I think no one has truly explained these terms because

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Speaker 1: one side or the other on the political aisle gets

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Speaker 1: triggered by them. And he was like, it's a simple fix.

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Speaker 1: We're not asking you to get rid of lights. We're

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Speaker 1: asking you to go back to yellow lights rather than

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Speaker 1: white lights. And certain towns have actually gotten on board

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Speaker 1: with this and it has changed the natural environment there in.

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Speaker 2: A big way.

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Speaker 1: I look at this as something similar this noise pollution.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a form of pollution. Even though

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Speaker 1: we think, okay, this is a new form of getting energy,

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Speaker 1: there are side effects that are maybe not worth the

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Speaker 1: new form of energy. I mean, if it's killing our

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Speaker 1: our ocean life, it's not worth it.

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Speaker 3: I agree, and I think very interesting story about the bees.

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Speaker 3: You know, this is definitely disruptive to the entire ecosystem.

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Speaker 3: And that's a case in point. You're talking about a

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Speaker 3: tiny you know, a little small bee and how important

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Speaker 3: they are for everyone. Right, so you know, not just humans,

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Speaker 3: but animals, all animals and the environment as a whole,

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Speaker 3: and this, you know, the lights will be significant. The

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Speaker 3: other thing to think about here is, yes, there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of pollution that is involved. You see, you know,

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Speaker 3: you have lots of you know, wind turbines on land

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Speaker 3: and I don't know if you've ever done sort of

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Speaker 3: a quick inventory to see, you know, are they all

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Speaker 3: moving all of the time? No, they're not right, and

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Speaker 3: are some of them broken? And the thought that they're

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Speaker 3: going to live thirty to sixty in the ocean is

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Speaker 3: not even that. They don't even pretend to use those numbers.

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Speaker 3: So lifespan is more probably twenty five years. And we

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Speaker 3: even think that's a bush at least in the Atlantic Ocean.

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Speaker 2: Is that because of corrosion or.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they'll take a yeah.

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Speaker 2: And you know, so how do you keep them safe

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Speaker 2: from oil leaks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they all have you know, they're all

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Speaker 3: filled with thousands of gallons of synthetic oil for lubrication.

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Speaker 3: There are a lot of toxic materials in a turbine,

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Speaker 3: and you know, not to mention the constant vessel traffic

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Speaker 3: that will be out there constructing over decades and maintaining.

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Speaker 3: So as I was saying, you see the work that

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Speaker 3: has to happen to keep turbines on land, you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, maintenance, maintenance, duff. You know, we'll see what

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Speaker 3: happens in the ocean, and if a turbine blade falls,

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Speaker 3: what happens goes to the bottom of the ocean. Is

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Speaker 3: someone digging that out? You know, there are a lot

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Speaker 3: of big questions, and it just really seems like this

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Speaker 3: entire idea has been advanced very quickly, very little beta testing.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this hasn't you know, it's checking that they

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Speaker 3: haven't said, let's put out ten turbines, how to see

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Speaker 3: and let's see what happens, and let's see what the

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Speaker 3: impacts are. Instead, it's settled to the metal. Let's put

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Speaker 3: in hundreds and thousands of them, and then we'll see

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Speaker 3: and then we'll test and you know, off Nantucket and

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Speaker 3: I know your audience is Michigan, but there's a critically

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Speaker 3: endangered species, the North Atlantic right whale. Is there that

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Speaker 3: are fewer than three hundred and forty species left, and

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Speaker 3: they are building this turbine power plants back in the

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Speaker 3: middle where they're safe and is it's not responsible.

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Speaker 1: Well, so this is where I say these groups that

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Speaker 1: are fighting you on this. I mean there have been

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Speaker 1: some of these groups like Sierra Club have come out

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Speaker 1: and attacked you on this. These are the groups that

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Speaker 1: in the past, what have always been the ones out

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Speaker 1: there saying we are not going to take an endangered

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Speaker 1: species and.

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Speaker 2: Kill them off. We're not going to take that chance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and it's been really it's been discouraging

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Speaker 3: to see some of the press and the accusations that

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Speaker 3: have come our way. I mean, it's almost if it

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Speaker 3: wasn't so discouraging, it would be funny, you know, the

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Speaker 3: thought that we're being funded by big O Island Gas,

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Speaker 3: when in fact the wind companies themselves are typically big

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Speaker 3: oiland gas. This is a new frontier for that many

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Speaker 3: of them have right forward. You know, we haven't taken

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Speaker 3: a penny from that, most of the groups up and

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Speaker 3: down the East Coast are very grassroots organizations, and we're

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Speaker 3: stepping in because the tried and true organizations that do

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Speaker 3: have funding, and many of them have funding. As we said,

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Speaker 3: from the wind companies are not doing what they say

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Speaker 3: what they say they're going to do. So it's it's

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Speaker 3: been really you know, that's probably been the hardest part

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Speaker 3: of it, is sort of the reality of Wow, things

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Speaker 3: don't really work how you think they work, and the

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Speaker 3: guy with the biggest bag of money wins, and it's.

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Speaker 2: Really it's really true.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really able. And I can't even mention these

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Speaker 3: in the Great Lakes and that would just be a sin.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's bad enough where we but.

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Speaker 2: It's the same. I mean that I think is the

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Speaker 2: thing that shocks me the most.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you were we used to take a

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Speaker 1: lot of road trips when I was a kid, and

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Speaker 1: I remember driving past the power plants where you would

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Speaker 1: see all of those blinking lights, and I in my mind,

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Speaker 1: when I was a kid, I would think about Batman,

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Speaker 1: you know, because is like Gotham City, and I cannot

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Speaker 1: imagine looking out at the ocean and seeing that. But

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Speaker 1: it's the same when I drive past these wind farms,

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Speaker 1: it's just blinking lights, blinking lights. And I think that,

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Speaker 1: you know, people made fun of Donald Trump when he

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Speaker 1: came out and he said they're killing birds, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that there's been anybody who's come out

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Speaker 1: and actually kind of exposed what's happening with them.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's easy to go, oh, that, how silly,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: But in Michigan we've had a huge problem on our

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Speaker 1: farms where they've killed bats because I think it's maybe

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Speaker 1: a similar situation with the sonar and they can't they

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Speaker 1: can't judge where the propellers are coming down, and they're

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Speaker 1: killing bats. We have a massive rodent problem then with

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Speaker 1: our food supply. So then the bats go in and

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Speaker 1: they killed the pests, right, So the bats are very

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Speaker 1: important the whole ecosystem of farming. And now our farmers

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Speaker 1: have their neighbor's land is being sold off because again

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Speaker 1: these companies come in with massive amounts of money and

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Speaker 1: they're like, we'll buy up your property and you can

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Speaker 1: stop farming and you're set for life, and it's very tempting,

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Speaker 1: and then these folks take it. They put up a

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Speaker 1: huge wind farm. That's what like I said, that's what

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Speaker 1: we call it a farm, and then the bats get

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Speaker 1: killed off and it hurts the environment for the farmers around.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there really are a lot of side effects.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I just don't understand why we can't

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Speaker 1: step back and take this approach of there's got to

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Speaker 1: be I say this for other things too. There's more

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Speaker 1: than one way to skin a cat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're bringing up something that I'm going to take

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Speaker 3: a step further about the bats. So we attended a

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Speaker 3: there was a summit in Hyana's, Massachusetts, and people from

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Speaker 3: off and down the East Coast came to speak about

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Speaker 3: the impacts of offshore wind, you know, not just on

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Speaker 3: the ocean but also on land. But one of the

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Speaker 3: big concerns in the ocean is that the turbines themselves,

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Speaker 3: you know, the ms are emitted, and what is the

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Speaker 3: impact that on animals, but also the impact that the

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Speaker 3: turbines themselves have on radar and it is shown to

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Speaker 3: compromise radar, so there are safety issues. The Coastguard has

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Speaker 3: been very clear that you know, we don't go out

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Speaker 3: and our work is typically in the water when conditions

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Speaker 3: are poor and there's low visibility. That's when accidents happen.

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Speaker 3: But because of part of it is because of the

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Speaker 3: radar compromisation, but also just the turbines, Like we're not

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Speaker 3: bringing a helicopter down in a turbine field. Similarly, there

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Speaker 3: could be national security issues et cetera, et cetera that

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Speaker 3: all needs to be addressed much more. And I think

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Speaker 3: part of the problem is some of the folks that

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Speaker 3: are nervous about this are I think of many people.

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Speaker 3: This is this the the era that we are in.

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Speaker 3: People are afraid to speak up because their job may

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Speaker 3: become perhaps they're in an appointed position by someone who

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Speaker 3: really wants this. On the East coast, you know, we

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Speaker 3: know that this is a big Biden administration agenda item,

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Speaker 3: and this has been a you know, many of the

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Speaker 3: states on the East Coast have jumped on board both sides.

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Speaker 3: You know, both parties have jumped on board on this wholeheartedly.

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Speaker 3: And I think mostly out of hate to say this,

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Speaker 3: but out of really not understanding the issue fully. I

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Speaker 3: don't like to use the word ignorance, but somewhat on

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Speaker 3: that And I think, and why go back and blame

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Speaker 3: again the environmental groups that work almost like lobbyists that

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Speaker 3: they teach us and if they're afraid, you know, and

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Speaker 3: their concerns are real, you know, And nobody brings this

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Speaker 3: to the forefront. The decision makers aren't fully equipped. We

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Speaker 3: don't expect our legislators to be marine biologists or energy

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Speaker 3: expert fryd out loud. Let's put all the smartest people

433
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 3: in the room and have a robust discussion before we

434
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 3: make such huge decisions. But what a pedal to the metal.

435
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 1: What a misnomer to call it clean energy when we

436
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 1: see it hurting so many different areas.

437
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,439
Speaker 2: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

438
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 2: the Tutor Dixon Podcast.

439
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: What you are seeing on the East Coast is certainly

440
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 1: what we're fearing here in Michigan, because Lake Michigan does

441
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 1: have a massive amount of wind.

442
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 2: It would be on paper, it looks.

443
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: Good, right, And we actually have a legislator who recently

444
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: put in a bill that would take away local control.

445
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 1: And I was talking to a gentleman yesterday about this

446
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: and he said, yeah, so if my neighbor decides to

447
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: sell their land and put up a wind farm, then

448
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: my local community can't do anything about it. It comes

449
00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: from the capital and this gentleman also just so happened

450
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: to own a solar company. But to your point, it's

451
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: the people with money, it's the people with power. They

452
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: then change the laws and it's all under the guise

453
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 1: of clean energy. Again, like I said, that is the

454
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: wrong name. And I think that we are so afraid

455
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: of coming out and saying, hey, we're against this because

456
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: people will say you don't love the environment.

457
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 2: No, no, quite the opposite.

458
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: It is that I do love the environment and I

459
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: don't know how this is going to affect it and

460
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: what permanent damage could be done, because we know as

461
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: humans we've done permanent damage before there and nobody can

462
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: say we have not left a footprint on this earth.

463
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: We certainly have, so why not be incredibly careful before

464
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: we leave another irreversible footprint?

465
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, you know, I think you know, again,

466
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 3: it's been hard to I believe it's been very hard

467
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 3: to have. This is the overall global or the national

468
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 3: climate that we've had. Right that anything that's controversial, if

469
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 3: it's been hard to speak up there there's a lot

470
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 3: of shaming that go that goes on. So if you

471
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 3: decide to say, you know, we've been called you know,

472
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 3: you're just climate denying gas loving freaks, right, I mean,

473
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 3: that couldn't be further from the truth. We are concerned

474
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 3: about the environment, so let's not you know, try to

475
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 3: fix one problem which may not really fix anything. By

476
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 3: the way, because I also think that's important. You know,

477
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 3: when you keep reading why we're doing things, the answer

478
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 3: is to meet you know, Michigan's climate goals or Massachusetts

479
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 3: climate goals. But what are the climate goals based upon?

480
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 3: These are these climate goals that they actually going to do.

481
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 3: Why don't we take a step back and say what

482
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 3: are we trying to solve for? And if it's climate change,

483
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 3: then let's see in the data where we show that

484
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 3: this actually will move the needle on climate change. Unfortunately

485
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 3: you don't really see that. But we've all made climate goals,

486
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 3: and so you know, we're sticking to them, come hell

487
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 3: or hot water. I don't think that that's responsible and

488
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 3: we should be able to pivot if we start to

489
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 3: head down a path and we people start to push

490
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 3: back and we start to see evidence that you know,

491
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 3: dead animals for example, when we know that that could

492
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 3: be a risk, why don't we pull back and put

493
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 3: these things on paps. But you know, I don't think

494
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 3: it works that way. Once the government's allocated money to

495
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 3: do something, they're going to spend it.

496
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: And right, yeah.

497
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's been the same for us here

498
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: in the Midwest. It's been kind of the same discussion

499
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: over electric vehicles because there's been there have been some

500
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: groups who have said, well, you know, the chemicals used

501
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,719
Speaker 1: to make the batteries are not great. The amount of

502
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: energy that it takes to build the car is three

503
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: times what it was to build a gas powered car.

504
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: To charge the batteries. Now we're hearing that there's potentially

505
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: gases coming off the batteries.

506
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 2: And this is not to say, oh, we can't do this.

507
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 2: It's to say, in the midst of innovation, when you're

508
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 2: still figuring things out, when the federal government says it's

509
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: go time, we're putting billions of dogs into it. Sometimes

510
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 2: then all of those tests that would normally happen, they

511
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 2: take their foot off of the brakes there and say, okay,

512
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 2: well we've got the go And that to me is

513
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 2: dangerous because then we go off in a direction that could,

514
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 2: like I said, be potentially dangerous. You hit on something

515
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: else and before I let you go, I just I

516
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 2: want to talk.

517
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: About this because you talked about the size of these

518
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: propellers or whatever we're calling them that come off of

519
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,719
Speaker 1: the turbines.

520
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 3: The part of me what did you call them the blades,

521
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 3: the turbine blades?

522
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And I think that from the outside perspective,

523
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: some people look at these and they go, oh, it's

524
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: all metal and it's all something that it can just

525
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: be melted down or reused.

526
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 2: But it's not. It's fiberglass.

527
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: It's a combination of materials that cannot be recycled. And

528
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: so you talk about one of these blades falling into

529
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: the ocean, what is actually once that goes into the ocean.

530
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: How quickly does the salt water start to eat away

531
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: at that? What kind of chemicals are going into the

532
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: ocean When you have something that is made from a

533
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: fiberglass material, which we know is highly dangerous, a carcinogen

534
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: for a humans, what could it do to ocean life?

535
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,719
Speaker 2: And what is the base made of?

536
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: What exactly are we putting in the ocean because we

537
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: know on land these cannot be recycled. We're taking them

538
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: out to Wyoming, We're digging these massive holes that are

539
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 1: like the size of three football fields and then burying them.

540
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: How is this a good thing?

541
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 3: I know, it's yeah, I agree. The composition of a

542
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 3: turbine is steel, carbon fiber as you mentioned, or fiberglass

543
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 3: on the blades. There are lots of rare earth minerals

544
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 3: and magnet minerals in the rotor toxic you know. You know,

545
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 3: almost the entire thing is non recyclable. So what do

546
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 3: we do with all of these things? And you know,

547
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 3: and they're just enormous. You know, these are just huge machines.

548
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 3: As I mentioned, They're filled with lubricating oil. You know,

549
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 3: they are connected interconnected by high voltage cabling that gets

550
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 3: cloud driven under the ground. And these are big, huge cables.

551
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 3: The amount of damage that happens at the bottom of

552
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 3: the seafloor is unbelievable. And then they have to you know,

553
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 3: travel you know, miles and miles to land. You know,

554
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 3: they're it's just really environmentally to me, I just feel

555
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 3: like this is a very bad trade. Wind is not

556
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 3: a dense product. It's meaning it requires a lot of

557
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 3: land to produce a relatively small amount of energy. You know. Conversely,

558
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,239
Speaker 3: and I'm not espousing any kind of energy. I'm not

559
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 3: a I'm not an energy expert, but for example, nuclear

560
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 3: would be the opposite. It's a very dense product. You can,

561
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 3: you know, put a small nuclear reactor on your property

562
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 3: that could power you know, a lot of a lot

563
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 3: of homes. So it just requires less less earth destruction.

564
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 3: And I think because these are in the ocean or

565
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 3: in one of the Great Lakes, that they're not really

566
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: in anybody's backyard exactly, so that I think the public

567
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 3: has not had a chance to really think this through

568
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 3: very well. But it will impact everyone. As you said,

569
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 3: there's lighting. They'll be out there for vessel traffic, for

570
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 3: air traffic, they'll be lit all the time. That is

571
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 3: damaging to both animals and frankly to humans. And I

572
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 3: think that one last thing I would just say is

573
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 3: that the human environment matters. Also. It's important to be

574
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 3: able to sit at the Great Lakes and look out

575
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,959
Speaker 3: and just see a horizon, or at the ocean and

576
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: just see a horizon. That's important for the human environment

577
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: to have that ability as well. And you know, it's

578
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 3: why we protect things, you know, we have you know,

579
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know the geography in Michigan well enough.

580
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 3: But Nantucket, for example, the entire island is a National

581
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 3: Historic Landmark. This changes that. You know, would we stick these,

582
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 3: you know, in the middle of Williamsburg, Virginia or would

583
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 3: they stick these around the and canyon? You know, we

584
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 3: should treasure the things that we have and really think

585
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,479
Speaker 3: these things through, really well before we make such a pivot.

586
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 3: My guess is a lot of these projects will get

587
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 3: built and then and I don't think that in fifty

588
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 3: years we're going to be having this discussion about offshore wind.

589
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 3: I think we'll have moved on. There'll be a better technology.

590
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: I think it'll be before that, frankly, But and then,

591
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 3: what who's paying to pull all of these things out

592
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 3: of the ground and where they're going? I can tell

593
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 3: you that, you know, they they have waived the mandate

594
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 3: for some of these projects, certainly the first one that's

595
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 3: being built off in Nantucket right now, they've waived the

596
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 3: mandate for the wind companies to ask grow funds to decommission.

597
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: So who's going to do that? They say, it costs

598
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 3: as much to decommission as it does to build. And

599
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 3: then and where do we put them? So I just

600
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 3: think this is a kind of a fool's errant, an

601
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 3: expensive to the environment, and an expensive financially fools errant.

602
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: And I think to your point as I was reading

603
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: about this, when I started reading about the amount of

604
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: lighting that it takes to put them in because you

605
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: have to have massive ships, and I don't think people

606
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: really understand. It's not like someone goes out there on

607
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: a dinghy and puts a light post in the ocean.

608
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: You have to have massive ships. It's going to be

609
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: a huge building process in the ocean. So you're polluting

610
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: the ocean with the ships that are out there. You

611
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: also are spending a massive amount of time out there

612
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: with with lighting that changes the whole course of the ocean.

613
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: The ocean is used to being, you know, the creatures

614
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: in the ocean are used to the darkness at night

615
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: and to be able to live their lives the way

616
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: they always have.

617
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 2: This is this is going to have a huge effect.

618
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: That it doesn't happen overnight and then you come and

619
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: decommission and it's the same thing. And that's what made

620
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: me think of the gentleman from National Geographic who said, hey,

621
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: when we put up these big white lights, it has

622
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: a great effect on our environment.

623
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 2: That you aren't thinking about.

624
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: And I think to myself, well, why wouldn't this do

625
00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: the same thing in the ocean.

626
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,719
Speaker 2: There's so many reasons.

627
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: To just think about this to not And again I

628
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: just want to reiterate this is not a partisan discussion.

629
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: This is about protecting wildlife. And you talked about the

630
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: human aspect of the need to come out and see

631
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: the ocean, to decompress, to have that mental space and

632
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: that absorbing nature. We know how important that is. But

633
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: I just last thing. I know I said last thing,

634
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: but last thing I want to say. I want to

635
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: ask you about when you talk about the amount of

636
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: voltage that is going coursing through all of these lines

637
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: and all of these big turbines out in the ocean,

638
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: that seems to me like there would be a constant

639
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: vibration out there. So even though I mean, you have

640
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: the turbines moving, but even as that's coursing underground, what

641
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: is that doing?

642
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know there's not I don't have a

643
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 3: lot of research on that. We do know, we have

644
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 3: seen a study that was done in the UK with

645
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 3: offshore with offshore wind and the EMFs, the electromagnetic frequency

646
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 3: that comes off that type of cabling and they've attributed

647
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 3: the malformation of lobsters that they're seeing to that. You know,

648
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 3: these animals live on the bottom of the ground, and

649
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 3: these EMFs are being emitted. The cabling can't be veried

650
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 3: very deep, you know, which is odd, but when you

651
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 3: think about it, they emit a lot of heat and

652
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 3: so they need to be cooled by the water, and

653
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 3: so they're really only five or six feet deep, which

654
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 3: means they are fairly close to the surface. And you know,

655
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 3: they also the substations emit I can't remember the number gallons,

656
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 3: but they in order to keep things cool part of

657
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 3: the process. And again I'm not an energy expert. I

658
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 3: don't know exactly how this works, but you know, daily

659
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 3: like millions of gallons of really hot water is you know,

660
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 3: is water is cycled through the substation and then dumped

661
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 3: into the ocean much too warm. I mean, we're worried

662
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 3: about you know, global warming and temperatures rising in the

663
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 3: ocean for animals where we're just going to do it

664
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 3: ourselves and it'll be very very warm. Yeah, So it's

665
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 3: all of these concerns. You know, it's just it's sort

666
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 3: of one thing after the next, and you know, we

667
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 3: our organization did file a lawsuit. I don't think we

668
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 3: mentioned that against you know, the pure of Ocean Energy

669
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 3: Management and you know a fisheries that the agencies that

670
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 3: are responsible for the permitting process for the Vineyard Wind project,

671
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 3: which is the first the nation's first offshore wind projective

672
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 3: is offman took it. We were in federal Kielsport two

673
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: weeks ago and we're hoping to press forward with this.

674
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 3: You know, we just think that they know, you know,

675
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 3: in a nutshell, the lawsuit is, hey, US government, you're

676
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 3: not really following your own endangered species and our protection

677
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 3: laws should be. And you know that things needed to

678
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 3: be more third. So we're really hoping to get get

679
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 3: some traction there and have everybody stop. You know, we

680
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 3: really like it's just people to stop and take a

681
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 3: better look at all of this. You know, they never

682
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 3: consider the impacts, the cumulative impacts. There will be a

683
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 3: lot of projects that occur in that area. And you're

684
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 3: saying that it sounds like there would be twenty four

685
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 3: hundreds or buying. You know, that is a big area,

686
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 3: you know, off the Atlantic they're putting these things. There'll

687
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 3: be each one will take about a square miles. So

688
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 3: you're talking twenty four hundred miles. I mean, think about that.

689
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 2: Good.

690
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 3: Agree, that's like twice the state of size the state

691
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,720
Speaker 3: of Rhode Island. What you're talking about there, these are.

692
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: How many whales has it been so far that you've seen,

693
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: you know, they are there.

694
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 3: It's been up and down the coast. You know, Nantucket

695
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 3: would be a small target to hit, you know, so

696
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 3: it's a little teeny island, but they and you know,

697
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 3: these whales migrate the North Atlantic great whale for example.

698
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 3: You know, it goes up and down the coast these

699
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 3: last three hundred and forties, so New Jersey and New

700
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 3: York have sort of been ground zero. It seems like

701
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 3: lots of them have shown there over the last just

702
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 3: way too many. And you know, it's these are huge beests.

703
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 3: They play a very important role in the ecosystem in

704
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 3: the ocean. They actually are Mother Nature's way of squestering

705
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 3: carbon dioxide, you know, whale FECs so are really feed

706
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 3: the basis of the entire food chain out there. So

707
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 3: they play a really vital role. You were talking about

708
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 3: the bees. It's you know, these are a big species

709
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 3: with big species with little feces. There are lots of

710
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 3: little feces, but that really are important. So, you know,

711
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,479
Speaker 3: I think we need to really consider the impacts here

712
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 3: when when you start messing with mother nature on one

713
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 3: end of it or another, the ramifications can be enormous.

714
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 3: And you know, I think we just need to be

715
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 3: more responsible. And I'm really glad that you're taking a

716
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 3: look at this in Michigan. And you know, we've been

717
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 3: contacted from by groups in California, from the Golfer. This

718
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 3: is a concern all over the country and I think

719
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 3: that you know it's it's important that the discussion continues.

720
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate what you're doing.

721
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: I know you've called it a David versus Goliath issue,

722
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: and it absolutely is. And I know the attacks that

723
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: you guys are under. I know they've gone after you

724
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: and they've said terrible things and they're trying to get

725
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: you shut down, and it speaks volumes about your character

726
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: that you don't stop.

727
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 2: Amy Decibio.

728
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful that you came on today, and I'm

729
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: so grateful that you continue to fight for this.

730
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you, tutor.

731
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 3: It's a pleasure. Have a good day.

732
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, and thank you all for joining us

733
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 1: on the Tutor Dixon Podcast for this episode and others.

734
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: As always, you can go to Tutor dixonpodcast dot com

735
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: and subscribe right there, or head over to the iHeartRadio app,

736
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and join

737
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: us next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have a blessing,