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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha, and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I've Never told you production of iHeart Radio. And today

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Speaker 1: it is with a heavy heart we bring this one back.

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Speaker 1: It is so informative, it's so useful, so helpful. But

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Speaker 1: I wanted to bring back this episode we did with

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Speaker 1: bridget right after Roe v. Wade was overturned because we

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Speaker 1: saw then and we were continuing to see now the

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Speaker 1: fallout of that, and it has been pretty frightening. And

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Speaker 1: we have an episode coming up. If you're listening to

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Speaker 1: this when it comes up, that's kind of an update

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Speaker 1: about it. But I thought this would be kind of

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Speaker 1: a useful and probably kind of shaken, kind of leave

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Speaker 1: you a little shaken snapshot of what was going on

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Speaker 1: right after it happens. So please I hesitate the same

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Speaker 1: and joy but it is really good still episode, this

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Speaker 1: classic episode.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is Danny and Samantha.

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Speaker 1: I don't Stephan never told your protection of iHeartRadio, and

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Speaker 1: today we are once again thrilled to be joined by

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Speaker 1: the incomparable, amazing, astounding Bridgete Todd y'all.

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Speaker 3: They're too kind.

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Speaker 4: I'm so happy to be here with you, even though

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Speaker 4: I feel like sometimes I hang out with y'all in

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Speaker 4: times of rage. It definitely feels like today, right, Yes.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's no one we would rather hang out with

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Speaker 1: in times of rage.

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Speaker 3: I'll kick that as a compliment.

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Speaker 5: Yes, is we want to commiserate and be enraged together.

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Speaker 5: I feel like we get things done. I'm not sure

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Speaker 5: that's true, but I'm assume that in my head.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And as listeners probably know based on the title

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Speaker 1: and description of this episode, we are talking about abortion

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Speaker 1: and the relation of abortion to technology and Roe v.

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Speaker 1: Wade and the devastating news we've gotten recently. And you

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Speaker 1: sent had an email Bridget and you're like, Hi, choosing

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Speaker 1: the topic, And I was just curious if you've already

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Speaker 1: done a bunch of stuff about this already, and to

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Speaker 1: be honest, and I hope that this doesn't like infuriate you.

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Speaker 1: But I was like, I hope Bridget's going to talk

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Speaker 1: about this because you have so much experience.

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Speaker 6: And again, I don't want to put you in a box.

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Speaker 6: I don't want you ever had to feel like you

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Speaker 6: have to talk about these things.

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Speaker 1: But I was like, Oh, Bridget's going to come on

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Speaker 1: and she's going to have so much great information about

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Speaker 1: this through these dark times that will make it feel

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Speaker 1: less dark.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I do not take that as an insult. You know,

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Speaker 4: I have worked more not the entire thing, but most

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Speaker 4: of my adult life in and adjacent to abortion access.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, so it's.

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Speaker 4: Something that I really hold very dear, and it's something

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Speaker 4: that's been a big part of not just my work

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Speaker 4: but also my personal life. It's something that really permeates

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Speaker 4: a lot of my other social and political ideology and values.

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Speaker 4: And so I'm not offended at all. I was like,

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Speaker 4: thank goodness, I've got a sminty book to talk about it.

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Speaker 4: But I know that both of you all are based

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Speaker 4: in Georgia, which is a state that is not particularly

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Speaker 4: hospitable to abortion care. So I feel like I have

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Speaker 4: to start by asking, you know, how are we doing.

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Speaker 6: The loaded question? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And we want to circle back and hear about

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Speaker 1: how you're doing as well. Bridget we just did a

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Speaker 1: reaction episode. It hasn't come out yet, but it'll come

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Speaker 1: out soon about how we felt about it when the

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Speaker 1: day happens, and it's pretty emotional.

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Speaker 6: I feel like I feel pretty.

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Speaker 1: Sad and angry and heartbroken and scared, and like things

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Speaker 1: feel very uncertain and the day it was announced, I

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Speaker 1: had a bunch of friends happen to be coming in

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Speaker 1: from out of town to stay with me, and they're

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Speaker 1: all women and one of them's a nurse, and we

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Speaker 1: just like talked about it and everyone was so scared.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, scared was the main thing. And angry,

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Speaker 1: very angry, but yeah, yeah, I mean, it's just it's

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Speaker 1: hard to It's like an emotion inside me that's just

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Speaker 1: whirling around, and it feels like almost always on the

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Speaker 1: verge of a panic.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a good way of saying, like it feels

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Speaker 5: like the end of the world for a certain extent

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Speaker 5: of what we're talking about and how we're seeing things

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Speaker 5: in the future. You know, Georgia has been one of

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Speaker 5: those as of late, being kind of the Purple State

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Speaker 5: essentially with two of our senators being Democrats, which is

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Speaker 5: the first time in history that we've been able to

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Speaker 5: push that and feeling like everything is on the line

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Speaker 5: right now because of things like what is happening with

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Speaker 5: the Supreme Court, with all of the different rulings that

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Speaker 5: are happening. We're seeing how bad it's gotten and we

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Speaker 5: had to push so hard to get to this point.

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Speaker 5: But it felt it feels almost like we had very

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Speaker 5: little difference in the overall impact that I know that's

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Speaker 5: not true.

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Speaker 2: This is me being a.

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Speaker 5: Little bit catastrophic about all of this, devastated in the

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Speaker 5: moment and taking a moment to be like, Okay, this

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Speaker 5: is what it is, feeling like we've had to fight

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Speaker 5: so hard and I know, actually that's the first time

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Speaker 5: I met you, Bridget, you had actually said that to

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Speaker 5: me about how you had to work so hard to

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Speaker 5: get to to CDC, to get to where it was,

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Speaker 5: and us coming in here being like, yeah, we get it.

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Speaker 5: This year has been this last few years has been

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Speaker 5: that for us to push so hard and seeing so

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Speaker 5: many good things happen and then coming to this moment

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Speaker 5: of like, oh god, we're back to square one. It

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Speaker 5: feels like and I know it's not true because it

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Speaker 5: should be hopeful, but seeing all these things doesn't always

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Speaker 5: get you motivated, right, And it's one of those things

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Speaker 5: and seeing, Okay, we have Stacy Abrams and we really

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Speaker 5: do want to see her come through, and we've already

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Speaker 5: had one big disappointment and there's a lot of contention

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Speaker 5: in that election, and we're coming back to round two

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Speaker 5: and we know that they've already kind of stacked the

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Speaker 5: cards and how this is going to play out, but

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Speaker 5: we can, you know, push through, maybe it can happen.

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Speaker 5: Of course, the women of color, the black women here,

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Speaker 5: have been fighting so hard and have really pushed us

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Speaker 5: to that victory. Being here and knowing that the impact

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Speaker 5: of what's happening in the Supreme Court impacts what's happening

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Speaker 5: to us so severely, Like there's so many things that

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Speaker 5: just feels overwhelming, that the intersectionality of all of.

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Speaker 2: The issues, it feels heavy. It feels so heavy.

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Speaker 5: Annie and I are trying to find a way to

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Speaker 5: like focus on, like, all right, we have to be active,

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Speaker 5: we have to move forward, we have to be advocates.

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Speaker 5: We can't sit in turmoil because we don't have that time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I plus plus plus to all of that, and

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Speaker 4: I think it can be hard because you know, humans

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Speaker 4: are only meant to take so much.

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Speaker 3: Right, It just feel like I saw a tweet that was.

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Speaker 4: Something to the effect of like the last few years

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Speaker 4: have been getting the worst news imaginable every day for

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Speaker 4: like several months, and I guess that's how it has felt.

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Speaker 4: And you know, the day that we got the news

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Speaker 4: about row. It was I'm not gonna lie like it was.

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Speaker 3: A tough day. I physically got sick to my like I.

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Speaker 4: Got sick, like I was not expecting it, like I

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Speaker 4: I even though I knew it was coming, and like

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Speaker 4: it wasn't a surprise to me. I was really surprised

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Speaker 4: by how physically difficult I took it. But I think

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Speaker 4: you're exactly right that it's it really takes constant reminders

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Speaker 4: that whatever I have to do to take care of

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Speaker 4: myself so that I'm in this for the long haul,

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Speaker 4: I need to do so, whether it's taking an afternoon

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Speaker 4: to be like, you know, I'm gonna go for a walk,

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Speaker 4: I'm not gonna check the news, or I'm gonna do this,

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Speaker 4: or I'm gonna do that, doing it in service of

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Speaker 4: being able to be here for the long haul, because

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Speaker 4: it's it's you know, it's a marathon, not a sprint, right.

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Speaker 5: And you know, one of the things that I have

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Speaker 5: a bad habit of, and I'm so glad you're here,

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Speaker 5: is that I take face value to the worst news

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Speaker 5: because at this point I'm just ready and I'm like, yeah, obviously,

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Speaker 5: obviously this is gonna be the worst thing ever, and

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Speaker 5: a lot of this has been disinformation and me like,

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Speaker 5: one of the things that I thought with a trigger

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Speaker 5: band was like automatically, all thirteen of those days are done,

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Speaker 5: and that's not actually true.

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Speaker 2: And knowing that I have you as one of my lists.

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Speaker 5: Of people with Ultra Violet, like, Okay, they're gonna let

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Speaker 5: me know, calm down, Samantha, You're just get playing it

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Speaker 5: up where it becomes hopeless. So thank you for being here,

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Speaker 5: and please talk me off this ledge.

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Speaker 3: Oh I am happy to.

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Speaker 4: And you know, as I said, I've worked most of

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Speaker 4: my life in or around abortion access and protecting it

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Speaker 4: and advocating for it. And it's actually one of the

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Speaker 4: reasons why I started my podcast There Are No Girls

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Speaker 4: on the Internet, is because I started to see how

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Speaker 4: when I was doing that work, I wasn't really thinking

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Speaker 4: about it necessarily as a quote tech issue. I thought

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Speaker 4: of it as a you know, feminist issue, a women's issue,

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Speaker 4: a health issue, a justice issue, a human rights issue.

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Speaker 3: All of those things.

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Speaker 4: But I didn't really have the analysis yet of it

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Speaker 4: being a technology issue. And so looking back, I really

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Speaker 4: wish I had really done the work in a way

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Speaker 4: that honored that reality. And you know, I feel like

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Speaker 4: I'm kind of making up for lost time. But you know,

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Speaker 4: I started my podcast because I really saw a pervasive

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Speaker 4: attitude around conversations involving technology and the Internet that pushed

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Speaker 4: women and queer folks and non binary folks and trans

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Speaker 4: people really out of a conversation and said that the

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Speaker 4: conversation is for white, heterosexual, cisgender men, and that attitude

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Speaker 4: really opened up these big gaps for exploitation and harm

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Speaker 4: and that we and by we, I mean like women,

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Speaker 4: queer folks, you know, people who are historically marginalized. We

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Speaker 4: are the ones who are definitely more likely to be

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Speaker 4: harmed by technology than straight white men. And so the

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Speaker 4: conversation around abortion, to me, really shows how technology can

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Speaker 4: really when we're not included in the conversation, we're not

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Speaker 4: thinking about it, and we're not checked in with what's

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Speaker 4: going on around the internet and technology, it really opens

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Speaker 4: up these avenues per harm.

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Speaker 3: And I really wanted to.

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Speaker 4: Talk about some of the ways that abortion and technology

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Speaker 4: are now intercepting in this post row world that we're

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Speaker 4: finding ourselves in.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I feel like a lot of the conversations

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing now are about technology, they are about.

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Speaker 6: The way our data is collected.

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Speaker 1: I know we're going to talk about that later, the

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Speaker 1: way we can access information or can't access information, and

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Speaker 1: if that information is even correct.

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Speaker 6: And I know you've been on here before and you've.

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Speaker 1: Talked about like, yes, the power of misinformation and disinformation,

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Speaker 1: and that has been a.

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Speaker 6: Huge thing when it comes to abortion and continues to be.

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Speaker 4: Oh yes, we're seeing a flood of inaccurate and misleading

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Speaker 4: miss and disinformation about abortion. And truly, as soon as

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Speaker 4: the draft Scho dis opinion leaked back in May and

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Speaker 4: Politico instantaneously we saw people using social media to spread

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Speaker 4: both miss and disinformation about abortion. Just a reminder, misinformation

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Speaker 4: is inaccurate information that's being spread. The person doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 4: know it's inaccurate. They're not doing that on purpose, maybe

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Speaker 4: they think it's true. Disinformation is the purposeful spread of

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Speaker 4: inaccurate or misleading information to cause confusion or chaos or fear.

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Speaker 4: And so immediately people were saying kind of like saym

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Speaker 4: kind of like what you were saying that, like this

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Speaker 4: means that abortion is illegal starting now this very same day.

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Speaker 4: You know, if you had an appointment, that appointment is

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Speaker 4: now canceled because abortion is now.

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Speaker 3: Illegal, and that's that was not true.

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Speaker 4: And I believe that, you know, this was maybe be

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Speaker 4: spread by both anti abortion extremists who are purposefully spreading

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Speaker 4: medical disinformation basically to talk people out of getting abortions,

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Speaker 4: and then that was sort of out in the ether,

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Speaker 4: and so people who just like genuinely didn't know what

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Speaker 4: was going on, who were, you know, maybe feeling scared or.

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Speaker 3: Anxious or confused.

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Speaker 4: And so obviously when you're in that state, you're just

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Speaker 4: sharing a lot of things and you're not necessarily thinking

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Speaker 4: about it. We're then sort of seizing on it and

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Speaker 4: sharing it too. But it truly goes to show the deep,

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Speaker 4: deep importance of our social media platforms being places where

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Speaker 4: folks have access to reliable and consistent, consistently accurate, timely

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Speaker 4: information to make decisions about their health. Because if you

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Speaker 4: you know, if you log onto Twitter, you know that's

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Speaker 4: a place where I get my news, It's where I

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Speaker 4: get local information. It's like where I found my local

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Speaker 4: COVID testing places when I was getting tested.

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Speaker 3: Regularly, and all of that.

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Speaker 4: If I log onto Twitter, and it's just a flood

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Speaker 4: of information that is just flat out not accurate and

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Speaker 4: I'm using that to bait to make decision about my health,

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Speaker 4: as I've done in the past on Twitter. Uh, that's

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Speaker 4: a problem, and so I think it really it really

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Speaker 4: demonstrated the need to have our platforms, if you, places

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Speaker 4: where accurate content is really easily accessible.

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Speaker 1: One of the most infuriating things that we saw in

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Speaker 1: the wake of this reversal of Rob Wade was people

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Speaker 1: who were trying to redirect the conversation and who were

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Speaker 1: trying to say that it was strange. It was like

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Speaker 1: the most strange gaslighting I've ever seen, because they were

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Speaker 1: trying to celebrate, but they also were like, but it's

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Speaker 1: not banned, though, you're over reacting and you're being like

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Speaker 1: violent and too much.

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Speaker 5: Right, I mean, honestly, one of the big conversations, which

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Speaker 5: is why I was bringing up the election, is right

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Speaker 5: now we do have our sendency, and the biggest debate

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Speaker 5: on there is about abortion right now.

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Speaker 2: Anytime I see anything about any.

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Speaker 5: Of the elections, and the misinformation slash disinformation that is on.

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Speaker 2: That feed alone is amazing.

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Speaker 5: And I'm trying to figure out, Okay, I've heard these

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Speaker 5: narratives for so long and it's come back, and people

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Speaker 5: are truly pushing this is unreal.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it when so I know exactly what

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Speaker 4: you're talking about.

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Speaker 3: I've definitely seen it, and I.

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Speaker 4: Think it really goes to show when inaccurate or misleading

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Speaker 4: information when it taps into something that is like a

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Speaker 4: base dark thing inside of us.

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Speaker 3: And I say us as I cumans.

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Speaker 4: Because I'm definitely susceptible to it. I have definitely been,

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Speaker 4: definitely have that that thing in me triggered. It really

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Speaker 4: catches on right, And so I see content all the

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Speaker 4: time that is clearly meant It's like it's written for me.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, well, that hit that stokes all my

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Speaker 4: you know, deeply personal individualistic fears and anxieties.

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Speaker 3: Clearly this was meant so for me.

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Speaker 4: Whenever I feel that, I know that it's my signal

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Speaker 4: to like take a beat and like don't just give

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Speaker 4: into it.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, inaccurate.

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Speaker 4: Or misleading information that speaks to these things inside of

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Speaker 4: us can.

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Speaker 3: Be so effective.

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Speaker 4: They're so sticky because bad actors and disinformers and people

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Speaker 4: who want to use lies to inflame and divide, they

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Speaker 4: know what they're doing.

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Speaker 3: They're so good at it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you talked about that when you talked about

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Speaker 1: the influence of anti abortion people at the insurrection and

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Speaker 1: the influence they had, and then you gave the you know, like,

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Speaker 1: we have document documentation that it's actually the anti abortion

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Speaker 1: people who are the violent ones historically.

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Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, I am so glad that you brought that up.

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Speaker 4: So in the wake of the leaked opinion about Roe,

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Speaker 4: and in the aftermath of Roe being overturned, so many

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Speaker 4: anti I call them anti abortion extremists because they are

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Speaker 4: out of step with the majority of Americans, And I'll

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Speaker 4: probably say that one hundred more times during this episode.

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Speaker 3: But as soon as that went down, they were.

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Speaker 4: Saying, like, oh, you know, the real conversation is whoever

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Speaker 4: leaked this draft, or the real conversation should be about

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Speaker 4: the fact that somebody wrote in shock outside of a

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court Justices house like things like that, And the

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Speaker 4: real conversation we should be having is, you know, abortion

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Speaker 4: advocates vandalizing buildings or YadA, YadA, YadA, And that is

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Speaker 4: just an attempt to shift the conversation to distract us,

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Speaker 4: because the reality is anti choice extremists are trying to

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Speaker 4: block abortion access, something that eighty percent of the country

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Speaker 4: is fine with. Is supportive of and so if they

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Speaker 4: were to have that conversation about the reality of what

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Speaker 4: they're doing, it would make them look terrible because it's

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Speaker 4: incredibly unpopular and they know this, and so they needed

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Speaker 4: the conversation to be about anything else other than the

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Speaker 4: reality of what they're doing. They need the conversation to

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Speaker 4: be about who was the leaker?

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Speaker 3: Who could it be?

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Speaker 4: It's so horrible, the unprecedented nature all of that. They

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Speaker 4: need the conversation to be about violence on behalf of

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Speaker 4: people who are supportive of abortion, when the reality, you know,

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Speaker 4: here in the real world, we know that anti abortion

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Speaker 4: extremists they're the ones who have perpetrated violence against abortion

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Speaker 4: providers and always have.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's one of those.

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Speaker 4: Things where it's like, if you think about it for

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Speaker 4: a second, you already know this. You don't need me

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Speaker 4: to tell you this, Right, It's why we have clinic

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Speaker 4: escorts that wouldn't exist if that wasn't the case, right,

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Speaker 4: And so they really want to flip the narrative and

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Speaker 4: it's just not true. In the wake of the conversations

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Speaker 4: around Row, we saw anti abortion extremists really trying to

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Speaker 4: own the conversation by repeating this inaccurate, misleading narrative when

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Speaker 4: we know that anti choice extremists have used violence, including

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Speaker 4: the murder of doctor George Tiller, who was murdered while

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Speaker 4: he was in church has place of worship back in

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Speaker 4: two thousand and nine, right, And so.

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Speaker 3: It's actually getting worse.

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Speaker 4: According to a new report from National Abortion Freedom, abortion

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Speaker 4: providers in the US, Canada and Columbia have faced significant

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Speaker 4: increases of violence and disruptions to their work in the

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Speaker 4: last year compared to the previous year, including stalking, invasions,

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Speaker 4: assault and battery.

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Speaker 3: And so, yeah, it's this idea that.

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Speaker 4: We are facing a wave of violence from people who

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Speaker 4: are advocates of abortion in their allies.

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Speaker 3: That's just not true if the reality is what we.

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Speaker 4: Have already known, is that it's anti abortion extremists who

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Speaker 4: are using violence to express themselves and not the other

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Speaker 4: way around.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 5: You know, It's interesting because I just read a Twitter

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Speaker 5: thread where this woman was talking about her experience and

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Speaker 5: having to get an abortion, which was medically necessary even

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Speaker 5: though this was a planned pregnancy. She really wanted to

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Speaker 5: have a baby and was expecting to carry it to

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Speaker 5: full term, but everything went wrong. She had to get

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Speaker 5: an abortion. It was pre like it was during a

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Speaker 5: time where it was really looked down upon and frowned upon,

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Speaker 5: and she had to travel to actually go to doctor Tiller,

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Speaker 5: and how she was talking about the fact that she

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Speaker 5: had to visit him and when he came out he

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Speaker 5: had to have a gun on him because he'd already

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Speaker 5: been threatened. It was an interesting thread in her talking

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Speaker 5: so deeply about this personal experience and why she did

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Speaker 5: it and having to go and travel to him to

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Speaker 5: get this done. And then at the end, you know,

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Speaker 5: she goes into on to say that this was the

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Speaker 5: same doctor that got killed at the church. The amount

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Speaker 5: of comments from anti abortion people completely skipped the entirety

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Speaker 5: of the fact that someone was murdered for doing the

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Speaker 5: service and went to, yeah, but this story is not

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Speaker 5: true because why would you have to go out of state?

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Speaker 5: This story is not like just picking up part her

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Speaker 5: story rather than seeing the end. And it was just like, Wow,

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Speaker 5: this is the way they are reaching to take apart

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Speaker 5: the violence that that is happening and what has happened

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Speaker 5: and the true loss of life to this is such

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Speaker 5: a mental gymnastics, but it's working.

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Speaker 2: That's the part is people fed on this.

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Speaker 3: You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 4: That story is heartbreaking and infuriating, but it is not surprising,

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Speaker 4: and I think part of why stories like that are

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Speaker 4: able to take off so much and have that stickiness

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Speaker 4: where people like feel like it's okay to tear her

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Speaker 4: story apart and all of that, I think, you know,

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Speaker 4: I talk a lot about how misleading narratives around things

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Speaker 4: like abortion fester on social media, but I think that

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Speaker 4: these things have been there since way before.

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Speaker 3: Social media was ever a thing. Like think about the ways.

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Speaker 4: That mainstream media, like news outlets and newspapers have done

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Speaker 4: a lot of the work of anti choice extremists for

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Speaker 4: them by spending decades framing abortion as this quote controversial

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Speaker 4: issue when the reality is eighty percent of Americans support

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Speaker 4: abortion access. There is not a place in the United States,

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Speaker 4: even in the deepest of red states, where the majority

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Speaker 4: of people.

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Speaker 3: There are against abortion access.

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Speaker 4: And so all of these stories that we saw, all

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Speaker 4: these news stories that framed it as this controversial issue

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Speaker 4: where there's two sides, we got to like hear both

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Speaker 4: sides and all of that, leaving out the plain, honest

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Speaker 4: truth that Americans are not on abortion care. It's actually

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Speaker 4: something that we are really the majority, like are united

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Speaker 4: on you know, it's like, there's not many things where

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Speaker 4: I was in America where eighty percent of people like it,

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Speaker 4: other than like, I don't know, maybe Tom Hanks or like,

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Speaker 4: you know, I'm struggling to think of others, right, So, like,

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Speaker 4: there's not that many things, but abortion care and the

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Speaker 4: importance of predicting abortion access is one of them. And

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Speaker 4: yet we still see media treating it as as this

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Speaker 4: controversial issue. Where is the controversy America has its mind

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Speaker 4: made up? And it's anti choice extremists who are pushing

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Speaker 4: through abortion bands and making it harder for people to

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Speaker 4: access abortions against the wishes of a majority, a clear

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Speaker 4: majority of the American public.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And I'm glad you brought that up because, as

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Speaker 1: we've discussed multiple times, I grew up in a very

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Speaker 1: small conservative town. When I first started on this show,

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Speaker 1: one of the very first episodes in twenty ten we

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Speaker 1: did was like Politics for You abortion episode, and it

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Speaker 1: was a it made news in our office like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they're talking about abortion, Like, oh my god, it's going

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Speaker 1: to be so controversial. And I always thought it was

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Speaker 1: super controversial because this is the story I've been fed

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Speaker 1: And so when I heard like, oh yeah, eighty percent

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Speaker 1: of people.

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Speaker 5: Are on it.

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Speaker 6: I was shocked, Like that shocked me.

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Speaker 1: And that's how effective this has been that I was

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Speaker 1: so surprised and like, I know, we're going to.

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Speaker 6: Have silver lining at the end, promise listeners.

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Speaker 1: But one of the silver linings that's come out of

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Speaker 1: this mess for me has been like, oh my gosh,

441
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: look at all these people that agree with me.

442
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 6: And I thought it was such a controversial thing.

443
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: Oh but I could go into a whole thing about

444
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 1: high school debate team and the abortion argument, but people

445
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: get so inflamed about it.

446
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 6: Oh my god, speaking of social media.

447
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 1: While the media has done this great job of already

448
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: feeding as this narrative that abortion is very controversial, social

449
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 1: media like inflamed it.

450
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 3: Right, absolutely so.

451
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,640
Speaker 4: As I said, these incorrect narratives and misleading narratives about abortion,

452
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 4: how Americans feel about them, who has them, how you

453
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 4: can access them, lies about all of those things did

454
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 4: not start with social media, but social media really allows

455
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 4: them to spread quickly and become legitimized, right, And so

456
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 4: I believe that platforms need to be doing a lot.

457
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 3: More to fix that. Right now.

458
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 4: Platforms do not treat lies about abortion as medical misinformation

459
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 4: the way that they would or you know, for inaccivate

460
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 4: information about COVID or vaccines.

461
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 3: And I think it's because.

462
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 4: We have a harder time when I mean, this is

463
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 4: just my as someone who studies disinformation and works on

464
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 4: the internet, this is just like my opinion.

465
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 3: I think that when there is an.

466
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 4: Identity issue layered into myths or disinformation, it becomes harder

467
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 4: to talk about clearly. And so if you're like, oh,

468
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 4: vaccines are safe or some fact based thing about COVID,

469
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 4: people are like, yep, that is you know, that's that's

470
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 4: fine if you lie about those things.

471
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 3: I think most people.

472
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 4: You know, most reasonable people are like, oh, that's medical misinformation.

473
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 4: When you layer on a clear identity issue, like you know,

474
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 4: everybody should have access to gender affirming healthcare, that's Those

475
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 4: are the things that I think that it is harder

476
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,479
Speaker 4: to see as the medical misinformation it really is. And

477
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 4: so we treat lies about COVID and vaccines and things

478
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 4: like that as clearly medical misinformation. We treat lies about

479
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 4: trans folks, queer folks, women and our care as something else.

480
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 3: I would argue that both.

481
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 4: Are forms of medical misinformation, and further both are threats

482
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 4: to our public health.

483
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:44,479
Speaker 1: Yes, and so far it seems like social media and

484
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 1: the people the powers that be behind them do not

485
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 1: agree with you, or at least they're not taking action

486
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 1: about that right.

487
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 5: Right as In fact, I've just recently I read an

488
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 5: article saying that they've found out that Facebook, Meta and

489
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 5: Instagram we're slowly just taking off actual information anything that

490
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 5: mentions like Plan B or the abortion pill.

491
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 3: Right, yes, yes, yes, yes, so right now.

492
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 4: Social media platforms are basically, I would argue, enabling and

493
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 4: profiting from the spread of both organic and paid content

494
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 4: that promote dangerous medical disinformation and misinformation around things like

495
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 4: the abortion pill, even though this medication has a very

496
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 4: long track record of scientific study and safety.

497
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 3: Quick side note.

498
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 4: With my work at Ultraviolet, working with our coalition called

499
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 4: the Women's Disinformation Defense Project, Ultraviolet and other organizations met

500
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 4: with social media platforms to flag clear, specific examples of

501
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 4: really dangerous lies about abortion on their platform. We did

502
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 4: this last month, right after the elite opinion around row

503
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 4: came out, because we knew we were going to need to,

504
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 4: you know, bring this to their attention, and when we did,

505
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 4: they quickly acted to take those those lies about abortion

506
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 4: down because they agreed that it was important for platforms

507
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 4: to be a place where oh wait no, just kidding,

508
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 4: just kidding, nothing, those they didn't do anything, and so

509
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 4: they can't say, oh, we didn't know, because we sat

510
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 4: there and showed them. They can't say, oh, we didn't

511
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 4: have time. We're working on it because we showed them

512
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 4: a month ago. And so it just goes to show

513
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 4: how I don't know. I just want platforms to do better.

514
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 4: I think that we should be able to deserve better.

515
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 4: I think that you know, these platforms, they have so

516
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 4: much money, they have so many resources, and they still can't.

517
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 3: Get it right. And we've also seen really.

518
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 4: Horrible medical misinformation about this process that they call quote

519
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 4: abortion rehearsal. I'm putting scare quotes around that, which is

520
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 4: this idea that pill based abortion can be reversed, which

521
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 4: is total nonsense, not grounded in science. Platforms have allowed

522
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 4: both organic and paid promotion of potentially life threatening claims

523
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 4: about this dangerous and medically unproven procedure, even while the

524
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 4: American College of ABSTRICTIX and Guynecology, which publishes practice guidelines

525
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 4: for OBGYN care, including abortion, does not recommend the practice

526
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 4: stating that quote claims of medication abortion reversal are not

527
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 4: supported by the body of scientific evidence, and this approach

528
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 4: is not recommended in ACOG's Clinical Guidance on medication abortion.

529
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 4: As shown by the failed study, this approach is not safe,

530
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 4: not non effective, nor is it based in medical evidence.

531
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 4: Yet platforms allow dangerous, inaccurate content that you know, around

532
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 4: abortion reversal, saying like, oh, if you took an abortion pill,

533
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 4: there's a process where you can reverse it, even though

534
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 4: it's not true, and so stuff like that can really

535
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 4: be life threatening, and yet platforms are allowing it on

536
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 4: their on their platforms and making money from it.

537
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 5: Wow, because that's kind of on the same lines of

538
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 5: like trying to get activists and we're like, you know,

539
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 5: we're you're well intended, but stop using hangars as a

540
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 5: symbol because there is a safe access and then having

541
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 5: that on top of the reversal. Oh my god, the

542
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 5: level of misinformation for young people out there trying to

543
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 5: figure out what is an option. Ah, we're gonna it's

544
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 5: gonna kill people.

545
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, you really said it.

546
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 4: I really see this as an issue where so many

547
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 4: things are layered on so like there's the misinformation. There's

548
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 4: also like people who are like I think, genuinely like

549
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 4: very well meaning, sort of perpetuating. I mean, I don't

550
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 4: want to It's a hard conversation, Like I don't want

551
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 4: to shame anybody for like using the wrong language. And

552
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 4: I think if you're in the fight, that's great. Even

553
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 4: if you got to the fight late, that's great.

554
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 3: We need you.

555
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 4: And so you know, I don't want to shame anybody

556
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 4: for like not starting their journey of activism around this

557
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 4: issue knowing the exact right messaging and the exact right

558
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 4: framing and the things to say, the things to not say,

559
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 4: what's helpful, because I certainly didn't know those things. Like

560
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 4: I was looking at my Facebook and I was like,

561
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 4: oh yeah, back in the day, like twenty ten, code

562
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 4: hanger imagery was all over.

563
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 3: My Facebook about being very helpful.

564
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 4: I didn't know any better, And so I don't want

565
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 4: to shame anybody who doesn't necessarily know the right thing.

566
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: But yeah, I.

567
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 4: Think it's one of those things where we have so

568
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,719
Speaker 4: much catching up to do as a movement, and there

569
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 4: are so many intersecting things against us that it can

570
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 4: sometimes be like, wow, we are really we're really not

571
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 4: in a great place. It feels sometimes.

572
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 5: Right, and you know, I'm completely with you, but like, honestly,

573
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 5: I didn't in twenty ten, shoot until like last year,

574
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 5: knowing about the abortion pill. I'm like, oh, oh wow, Okay,

575
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 5: this is a whole different level of understanding of what

576
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 5: this is and that there is a safe access and

577
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,959
Speaker 5: we need to make sure that we talk about it,

578
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 5: because yes, there are so many bad things. We don't

579
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 5: want to go back to the old way. We don't

580
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 5: have to cross your fingers or so that we can

581
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 5: do the new access. Like there's so many rebellious I

582
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,719
Speaker 5: love it people out there who are helping get access

583
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 5: to abortion through these abortion pills, and how much safer

584
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 5: it is, and we need to remind people of that.

585
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 5: But you know, also, on top of all of this,

586
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 5: what I'm thinking when it comes to anything with social

587
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 5: media in general, I feel like the conspiracy and I

588
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 5: don't think it's a conspiracy overall that we've already seen

589
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 5: and talked about how just regular marginalized content creators are

590
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 5: being shadow band I feel like.

591
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 2: It's a prep up to this. Am I just being

592
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: out there?

593
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 4: You are not being out there in the least sam

594
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 4: And it's one of those things where it feels like,

595
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 4: when you talk about this, it feels like conspiracy theory,

596
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 4: but it's not. And so platforms are definitely absolutely limiting

597
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 4: what people can say about abortion and abortion pills. They

598
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 4: are people are having statements about abortion pills taken off

599
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 4: of platforms like Facebook. Vice actually did some really interesting

600
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 4: reporting into this. So on Friday, Vice's tech vertical motherboard,

601
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 4: one of their reporters attempted to post the phrase abortion

602
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 4: pills can be mailed on Facebook using a burner account.

603
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 4: The post was flagged within seconds as violating the site's

604
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 4: community standards, specifically the rules around buying, selling, or exchanging

605
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 4: medical and non medical drugs. The reporter was given the

606
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,239
Speaker 4: option to disagree with the decision or agree with it.

607
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 4: After they shows disagree the post, what's removed. They were

608
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 4: able to post phrases like painkillers can be can be mailed,

609
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 4: pills and quote abortion without issue. Motherboard then posted abortion

610
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 4: pills can be mailed a second time and it was

611
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 4: flagged for removal, and this time the reporter agreed with

612
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 4: the decision. And so something I know about Facebook's content policies.

613
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 4: They say, oh, we remove anything that's illegal.

614
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 3: But the phrase abortion.

615
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 4: Pills can be can be mailed, that's just like a

616
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 4: fact that's not you know, an.

617
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 3: Admission of illegal behavior. And so it really goes.

618
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 4: To show the complete failure of content moderation policies that

619
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 4: platforms are using. You know, we've been sounding in the

620
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 4: alarm way before this decision about the fact that that

621
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 4: platforms are going to become hotbeds of life threatening misinformation,

622
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 4: and just that their moderation policies aren't don't work. They're

623
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 4: not transparent, they're not consistent. People don't know how they work,

624
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 4: and they're not able to tell us with any kind

625
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 4: of transparency how they work. And so again I think,

626
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 4: really this moment shows how bad platforms have failed us

627
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 4: and how little they're working to correct the problem.

628
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: Right, And it feels just extremely hypocritical when they're like, oh,

629
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: we're a platform or technology, we don't take size, but

630
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: you can't post that that thing, you know.

631
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 3: Right.

632
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: One of the things my friends and I've seen a

633
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: lot of conversation about is, you know, people keep saying

634
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: we're back to before real VWAD, but it's different now

635
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: because we have all of this technology and people are

636
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: worried about, oh, social media, can they use that?

637
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 6: But also like period checker apps.

638
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: I know have been a big part of this conversation

639
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: and fear totally.

640
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 3: So I'm so glad that you brought that up.

641
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 4: As Sam was saying, you know, in twenty twenty two,

642
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 4: the conversation around abortion care is not you know, quote

643
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 4: back alley abortions and coat hangering all of that.

644
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 3: I understand why people are.

645
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 4: Using that, and I'm again like I get it, but

646
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 4: the conversation because of the availability of things like abortion,

647
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 4: pill based abortion and self managed abortion, is really not

648
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 4: around that kind that kind of access like.

649
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 3: Finger as you said, fingers crossed. I don't think we're going.

650
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 4: To go back to a place where we have to

651
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 4: resort to that, and pill based abortion is very safe.

652
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 4: The new frontier is definitely surveillance and criminalization of people

653
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 4: who need abortions, are looking into abortions, people who are

654
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 4: pregnant and aren't having a aren't planning on having an

655
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 4: abortion but maybe miscarry, and people who are aiding others

656
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 4: and getting abortion and so you know, the last time

657
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,959
Speaker 4: that abortion was illegal in the seventies, you know, before

658
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 4: Roe v.

659
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 3: Wade was the law of the land.

660
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 4: We did not have this vast digital network of surveillance

661
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 4: that we have today. We didn't all carry GPS devices

662
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 4: in our pocket or leave digital paper trails of everything

663
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 4: we've ever googled ever.

664
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 3: You know, for someone to look at.

665
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 4: We didn't have platforms that would then share that information

666
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 4: with all manner of third parties, including law enforcement. You know,

667
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 4: I want to say, like on the on the period

668
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 4: tracker thing, the very popular period tracking app Flow faced

669
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 4: a lawsuit last year app for sharing people's personal information,

670
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 4: including quote intimate details about sexual health and menstrual cycles,

671
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 4: with third parties like Facebook and Google, despite public assurances

672
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 4: that they would not do that, And according to this lawsuit,

673
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 4: they did that because they know that data is quote

674
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 4: vital to their business. And so I think all of

675
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 4: those questions I understand why in the wake of this decision,

676
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 4: those were the questions that were like flooding social media.

677
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 4: And when you add in laws like the one in

678
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 4: Texas that deputize ordinary citizens to turn anyone that they

679
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 4: suspect of having an abortion or aiding a betting and

680
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 4: an abortion, turn them in for a ten thousand dollars

681
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 4: reward slash bounty you can really see the scope of

682
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 4: what we're facing in terms of surveillance and criminalization and

683
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,919
Speaker 4: so a lot. You know, if someone's listening and they're like, well,

684
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 4: should I delete my period tracker? Or like, how can

685
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 4: I stay safe digitally in a post real world.

686
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 3: I am not a lawyer.

687
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 4: I this is not legal advice, so like, do not

688
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 4: take this as legal advice. But I did speak to

689
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 4: computer scientists and social media expert doctor Jen Golbeck, who

690
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 4: is currently making a series on TikTok to educate people

691
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 4: who might need abortions on how to access them more securely.

692
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 3: If you want to hear the whole interview.

693
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 4: Which just came out, you can listen to the most

694
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 4: recent episode of my own podcast, There Are No Girls

695
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 4: on the Internet. But here is a good summary which

696
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 4: I'm going to play and it's going to work and

697
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 4: it's going to be fine to give you a sense

698
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 4: of some of the steps you can take to keep

699
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 4: yourself secure. So you know, you've mentioned a couple of

700
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 4: like really great tips for folks. If you're you know it,

701
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 4: looking for abortion pills and you want to do it,

702
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 4: you know in a way that you're going to be

703
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 4: less likely to be tracked, you know, using a tour browser,

704
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 4: using an incognito mode when you search using.

705
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 3: Public Wi Fi.

706
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 4: Are there other tips that you want to shout out

707
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 4: for folks if you if they if they might need

708
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 4: this information.

709
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 7: So that's all important stuff, I would say for sure.

710
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 7: The most important one is that you are not paying

711
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 7: with a credit card or a debit card connected to

712
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 7: your name, So figure out how much your medication is

713
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 7: going to cost, use cash by like a Visa Vanilla

714
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 7: gift card, which you can get anywhere for that amount,

715
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 7: and then pay with a Visa Vanilla gift card. So

716
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 7: much of how we're tracked is through credit card number, so.

717
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 3: Definitely do that.

718
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 7: And the other way that we're really easily tracked is

719
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 7: through email address, So set up a fresh email address

720
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 7: that you are only using to buy this abortion medication.

721
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 7: Proton mail is the one site that I've recommended for this.

722
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 7: It's free, it's encrypted, it's really good and secure. You

723
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 7: can just set up an email address, use it to

724
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 7: buyer medicine, don't use it for anything else. If you

725
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 7: do that, gift card fresh email address on something like

726
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 7: proton mail. You know, I love Gmail, I use it right,

727
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 7: but they track the hell out of you on Gmail,

728
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 7: So proton mail, email address, Vanilla gift card. You get

729
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 7: eighty percent of the protection from tracking just from those

730
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 7: two measures. So you know that's easy and accessible to anybody.

731
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 7: Definitely do that.

732
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: Yes, that is such great and helpful information and I

733
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: know a lot of people are looking for it right now,

734
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: So definitely, listeners, go check out that episode if you

735
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: haven't already, and you know not to.

736
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 6: We're gonna We're about to wrap up here.

737
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: But it's kind of frustrating to me because I've talked

738
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: to my friends about this and they're like, do you

739
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: know anybody who has a regular period?

740
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 6: No, No, I don't. Oh okay, but we did promise

741
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 6: the silver lining.

742
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, So as dark as all of that was,

743
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 4: it is not all terrible news. And I know this

744
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 4: is a lot, but the good news is that abortion

745
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 4: advocates and providers have been in this fight for such

746
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,479
Speaker 4: a long time, and I have been spending the better

747
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 4: part of a decade preparing for this very moment, and so.

748
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 3: They knew what was coming. They are prepared.

749
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 4: They have abortion networks, abortion funds, legal expert bail funds, protesters, actions, rallies,

750
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 4: all at already, and so I know that there was

751
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 4: a moment, at least for me where it can feel

752
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 4: very like overwhelming, like what's to be done? There are

753
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 4: so many different things and resources that have been being

754
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 4: strengthened for the last ten years that you could tap into,

755
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 4: listeners at home could tap into.

756
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 3: And I think that's one of the things that.

757
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 4: Gives me so much faith and makes me feel a

758
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 4: little bit better, is that this space is full of dynamic,

759
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 4: brilliant people who care. And it's like the smartest chick

760
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 4: from your college, right, the coolest person in your dorm.

761
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 3: People like that, people who you can look to, the person.

762
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 4: In your life or in your community who is the loudest, proudest,

763
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 4: most bold advocate. They're on our side, not the other

764
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 4: way around. And guess what, it's eighty percent of us.

765
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 4: There are more of us and there are of them,

766
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 4: and we will outlast them. And so as stuff as

767
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 4: all of this is, don't lose hope because there are

768
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 4: more of us than there are of them. We are

769
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 4: eighty percent and we're not going anywhere.

770
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 3: I'm a clap.

771
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 6: Yeah that deserves flause.

772
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 2: I needed that.

773
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I literally right before we got on

774
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 4: this call was at a like I just ran it

775
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 4: in from a action outside of the Supreme Court where

776
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 4: people were being like I think one.

777
00:38:59,160 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 3: Hundred and fifty.

778
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 4: People were arrested outside of the Supreme Court because they

779
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 4: refuse to move. And so it was folks like I

780
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 4: was looking through the crowd and I was like, oh, yeah, her,

781
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 4: she's a tech expert. Oh yeah, that's busy Phillips. She's

782
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 4: a celebrity.

783
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 3: Oh yeah her.

784
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 4: Like it was like I was going down the line

785
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 4: and it was just like damn, Like, we are strong

786
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 4: and mighty and we're not going anywhere.

787
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 3: We will not be moved. We're not going back, we

788
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 3: will not back down. We'll see you mothers on the street.

789
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 1: Right.

790
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 6: I love it. I love it.

791
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: That was indeed the silver lining we needed. And yeah,

792
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: I think it's important to remember the work people have

793
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 1: been doing and to respect that and then to continue that. Yes,

794
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: do you have any resources you would like to shout out?

795
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 3: Absolutely?

796
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 4: The one that I always shout out is abortion Funds

797
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 4: dot org. You can find a local abortion fund in

798
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 4: your community. If you've got money, you can give them

799
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 4: money their other ways you can donate your time, but

800
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 4: that's the one I really I think that in this

801
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 4: in this time right now, giving money to local organizations

802
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 4: is really the key. I love Planned Parenthood. I used

803
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 4: to work there. They have plenty of money. If your

804
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 4: daughter will go like, no shade to them. I love

805
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 4: their work, but your daugha will go so much further.

806
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,240
Speaker 4: It's smaller local abortion funds, so definitely check out abortion

807
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 4: Funds dot org and find out if you've got If

808
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,919
Speaker 4: you've got a little coin to spend, I would spend

809
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 4: it there.

810
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 6: Awesome.

811
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for joining us, for talking

812
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: about this, for all the work that you've done because

813
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: we were like I hope Bridge it will help us

814
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: through this, remind us with great information and you did so.

815
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you, thank you. And Yes, listeners, check

816
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: out where bridgite. You can find Bridget other places including

817
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: her podcasts. You want to tell the listeners everywhere they

818
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: can find you.

819
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, you check out my podcast. There are no girls

820
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 4: on the internet. You can follow me on Twitter at

821
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 4: Bridget Marie or on Instagram at Bridget Marie in DC.

822
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 6: Yes, and please go do that.

823
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: Listeners if you have not already, and you can email

824
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: us if you would like our email Stephanie Momstuff at

825
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: ihartmeeia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at

826
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram. Stuff I've Never Told You,

827
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina,

828
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Stuff Never Told You.

829
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 1: Protection of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts on my Heart Radio,

830
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: Is It I heardeo app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you

831
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows