WEBVTT - 12. Dig Two Graves | Lost Hills 0:00:15.066 --> 0:00:15.506 Pushkin. 0:00:23.896 --> 0:00:26.856 This spring, as we were finishing the show, my birthday 0:00:26.896 --> 0:00:30.556 rolled around again. I always associate this time of year 0:00:30.596 --> 0:00:33.076 with my trees now because it's when I learned Rick 0:00:33.136 --> 0:00:37.086 Forsberg's name. Three days before my birthday, I got a 0:00:37.116 --> 0:00:40.886 package at home. My first thought was, someone sent me 0:00:40.946 --> 0:00:46.026 a gift. But it wasn't a gift. The package from 0:00:46.066 --> 0:00:48.986 an online bookseller in England contained two copies of a 0:00:49.026 --> 0:00:54.266 book called Careless Talk Costs Lives. The picture on the 0:00:54.306 --> 0:00:57.826 cover was a drawing of two women talking, not realizing 0:00:57.906 --> 0:01:01.806 that Hitler and Goering are sitting behind them. There was 0:01:01.846 --> 0:01:06.086 no return address and no note. I flipped open the book. 0:01:06.926 --> 0:01:10.286 It was full of propaganda posters from World War II England. 0:01:11.316 --> 0:01:15.306 But that wasn't the point. The point was the words 0:01:15.366 --> 0:01:19.086 that jumped out at me as I paged through. Warning 0:01:20.066 --> 0:01:25.306 and be on your guard. I called Haley. There were 0:01:25.326 --> 0:01:29.506 two copies. There were two women on the cover. We 0:01:29.546 --> 0:01:34.366 were two women reporting this story. We both felt this 0:01:34.426 --> 0:01:37.666 was a threat. Someone out there didn't like the direction 0:01:37.706 --> 0:01:42.336 of the reporting. Someone wanted us to stop. Over the 0:01:42.376 --> 0:01:44.936 past five years, we'd talked to so many people with 0:01:44.976 --> 0:01:49.996 so many competing agendas. Cops, criminals, childhood friends of Rick's. 0:01:51.236 --> 0:01:54.136 Whoever it was, sending the package to my house was 0:01:54.176 --> 0:01:57.156 a not-so-subtle reminder that they knew where to find me. 0:01:58.916 --> 0:02:01.336 I went to my local police station and told the 0:02:01.526 --> 0:02:03.726 LAPD detective I met with that I was in the 0:02:03.766 --> 0:02:08.106 midst of sensitive reporting on the Mitrice-Richardson case, which, I 0:02:08.146 --> 0:02:12.056 reminded him, had started as an LAPD missing persons case. 0:02:12.896 --> 0:02:16.146 The detective perked up at that. He agreed the package 0:02:16.196 --> 0:02:18.916 was meaningful. He asked to keep one of the copies 0:02:18.956 --> 0:02:23.336 of the book and my business card. And he told me, essentially, 0:02:23.856 --> 0:02:28.496 to be on my guard. The whole episode made me 0:02:28.556 --> 0:02:39.006 feel like we were getting closer to the truth. And 0:02:39.066 --> 0:02:41.006 this is Lost Hills. 0:02:41.026 --> 0:02:47.426 Episode 12. 0:03:08.456 --> 0:03:17.746 Dig two graves. About six months before she disappeared, Mitrice 0:03:17.786 --> 0:03:19.246 developed a new interest. 0:03:20.266 --> 0:03:25.446 Right before Mitrice went missing, she wanted to buy a motorcycle. 0:03:26.386 --> 0:03:31.746 This is Mitrice's dad, Michael, again. He says in July 2009, 0:03:31.746 --> 0:03:35.206 Mitrice had a motorcycle driving test. He wanted to go 0:03:35.246 --> 0:03:37.386 with her, but he had just started a new job. 0:03:38.646 --> 0:03:40.826 And that was something that I regret to this day 0:03:40.866 --> 0:03:43.826 because that would have been the last thing possibly that 0:03:43.846 --> 0:03:44.646 we'd done together. 0:03:46.086 --> 0:03:49.056 Haley and I are visiting Michael at home in his garage, 0:03:49.316 --> 0:03:51.256 where he has a kind of shrine set up to 0:03:51.296 --> 0:03:54.576 the memory of Mitrice and what happened to her. There 0:03:54.616 --> 0:03:58.656 are collages of family photos and framed articles about her disappearance. 0:04:00.146 --> 0:04:03.126 The garage is where he keeps his white 66 Chevy 0:04:03.166 --> 0:04:05.956 with the portrait of Mitrice on the trunk. and where 0:04:05.996 --> 0:04:08.496 he also keeps the front piece of the orange and 0:04:08.536 --> 0:04:12.226 cream-colored Harley Davidson he bought in her honor after she died. 0:04:13.446 --> 0:04:15.706 Just like the car, the Harley has a portrait of 0:04:15.746 --> 0:04:16.866 Mitrice painted on it. 0:04:18.286 --> 0:04:21.366 My friends teased me because they was like, this dude 0:04:21.836 --> 0:04:24.836 never rode a minibike, never had a scooter, and when 0:04:24.856 --> 0:04:29.396 he came, he came with a $ 50, 000 motorcycle, custom-built, ready 0:04:29.436 --> 0:04:30.716 to ride and the whole thing. 0:04:31.536 --> 0:04:33.856 But we're not here to see the motorcycle or the car. 0:04:35.036 --> 0:04:37.276 We're here because Michael told us he has a bag 0:04:37.336 --> 0:04:40.876 full of Mitrice's clothing. He found the clothing in her car. 0:04:41.456 --> 0:04:45.036 It was there when she disappeared. It's been packed away 0:04:45.076 --> 0:04:49.566 in the garage, untouched, for almost 15 years. He's never 0:04:49.686 --> 0:04:50.026 opened it. 0:04:50.026 --> 0:04:55.626 It's in a Ziploc bag, and something just told me 0:04:55.686 --> 0:04:57.066 never get rid of it, and I couldn't do it 0:04:57.106 --> 0:05:03.096 if I wanted to. I just always felt like someday, somehow, 0:05:03.116 --> 0:05:05.076 we're going to need them. We're going to need them. 0:05:05.616 --> 0:05:08.996 And so I kept them in a plastic Ziploc bag, 0:05:09.476 --> 0:05:14.316 and we'll see. Yeah, so let me know when you're ready. 0:05:15.716 --> 0:05:18.216 Michael heads for the back corner of the garage, where 0:05:18.256 --> 0:05:21.216 he has some metal shelves. He pulls down one of 0:05:21.256 --> 0:05:23.776 those clear plastic bags for storing pillows. 0:05:28.716 --> 0:05:34.176 This, you know, we have this saying that, uh, This 0:05:34.256 --> 0:05:37.646 girl wants the world to know who did this. 0:05:39.886 --> 0:05:43.546 When we see the clothing through the bag, something unexpected happens. 0:05:52.486 --> 0:05:56.116 Gosh, Michael, I am feeling emotional seeing this stuff. 0:05:56.336 --> 0:05:57.116 I am too. 0:05:57.136 --> 0:05:57.816 That's how you're. 0:05:57.716 --> 0:05:58.376 Feeling right now. 0:05:59.546 --> 0:06:02.426 There's just something about seeing this man hold his daughter's 0:06:02.486 --> 0:06:06.006 belongings in his arms. It's what's left of her from 0:06:06.046 --> 0:06:08.766 that night. What she had with her in her car 0:06:08.806 --> 0:06:12.316 when she was arrested. It's who she was until the 0:06:12.356 --> 0:06:17.816 moment her identity flattened out into victim. We're closer to 0:06:17.836 --> 0:06:21.846 Mitrice than we've ever been. As close as we'll ever get. 0:06:23.286 --> 0:06:25.686 We walk out to the driveway and Michael sits down 0:06:25.726 --> 0:06:29.406 in a folding chair. We put on our N95s and 0:06:29.466 --> 0:06:32.586 gloves and get to work. I unzip the bag and 0:06:32.626 --> 0:06:36.336 start removing its contents. Some of the clothes and shoes 0:06:36.396 --> 0:06:40.216 were clearly part of my Teresa's go-go dancing wardrobe. A glove, 0:06:40.476 --> 0:06:44.476 a strip of purple sequined cloth, tall boots, strappy heels. 0:06:45.676 --> 0:06:48.306 So this is like a patent leather. Do you think 0:06:48.326 --> 0:06:50.806 she would wear this at Deborah's? 0:06:51.046 --> 0:06:51.926 Yeah, yeah, definitely. 0:06:53.426 --> 0:06:54.986 I line everything up on the pavement. 0:06:56.406 --> 0:07:04.746 One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine pairs 0:07:04.786 --> 0:07:08.186 of shoes, which includes three pairs of boots, one of 0:07:08.226 --> 0:07:08.906 which are Uggs. 0:07:09.746 --> 0:07:12.896 And then there are, one of those is flip-flops, the 0:07:12.936 --> 0:07:13.736 rest are high heels. 0:07:14.116 --> 0:07:17.156 Nine pairs of pants. 0:07:17.376 --> 0:07:18.896 That's that! 0:07:20.976 --> 0:07:25.006 Deeper in the bag, we find Mitrice's makeup kit. Inside, 0:07:25.146 --> 0:07:28.526 it's a tangle of chunky beads and brightly colored hoop earrings. 0:07:28.986 --> 0:07:31.566 And buried in there in a tangled knot is the 0:07:31.626 --> 0:07:32.716 thing we've been looking for. 0:07:32.736 --> 0:07:38.416 That looks like it might be underwear or something that's 0:07:38.536 --> 0:07:39.436 striped underneath. 0:07:39.876 --> 0:07:42.996 See that little, right, right, the striped. 0:07:44.496 --> 0:07:45.736 Yeah, yeah, yes, you're right. 0:07:46.426 --> 0:07:49.326 Good, that is underwear. Can I have a plastic bag? 0:07:50.666 --> 0:07:55.606 It's size medium, purple and black stripes, mesh. very similar 0:07:55.666 --> 0:07:58.006 to some of the items we found inside the suitcase 0:07:58.186 --> 0:08:01.346 at Rick's fort. All of a sudden, it seems a 0:08:01.426 --> 0:08:04.046 lot more likely that one of the pairs of fort 0:08:04.156 --> 0:08:08.836 underwear could be Mitrice's. We bag up the thong along 0:08:08.876 --> 0:08:13.176 with a purple hairbrush filled with Mitrice's hair. Michael says 0:08:13.436 --> 0:08:16.436 we can have them tested for DNA. He's willing to 0:08:16.486 --> 0:08:17.686 do anything at this point. 0:08:19.086 --> 0:08:21.446 I can't get a case closed if I'm limited to 0:08:21.486 --> 0:08:25.756 what I give you guys. I have to be open to, like, Here, 0:08:25.996 --> 0:08:27.996 you're taking this serious, so I want you guys to 0:08:28.016 --> 0:08:28.386 have it. 0:08:29.676 --> 0:08:32.836 The handling of Mitrice's clothing from the remains site was 0:08:32.896 --> 0:08:37.126 completely botched. Nothing was even tested till after her body 0:08:37.166 --> 0:08:41.066 was exhumed a year after the discovery. We don't know 0:08:41.226 --> 0:08:43.726 exactly what was done at that point, but nothing came 0:08:43.766 --> 0:08:48.086 of it. We're hoping that through forensic evidence, we can 0:08:48.146 --> 0:08:52.526 place Mitrice at Rick's fort. It's a long shot, but 0:08:52.606 --> 0:08:56.336 finding that stuff at the fort was so improbable We 0:08:56.396 --> 0:09:02.716 have to try. Angela Butler is a DNA analyst at 0:09:02.756 --> 0:09:05.076 a private forensics lab in the Bay Area. 0:09:06.476 --> 0:09:09.426 I typically take the most challenging cases in the lab. 0:09:10.986 --> 0:09:13.206 Right now I'm doing a lot of cold cases. 0:09:14.086 --> 0:09:18.806 Her lab works with cops, prosecutors, and innocence projects, handling 0:09:18.826 --> 0:09:22.966 a lot of high-profile cases. The Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez, 0:09:23.576 --> 0:09:30.606 Scott Peterson, Kristen Smart. And now, Mitrice Richardson. With Michael's permission, 0:09:30.706 --> 0:09:34.436 we sent Mitrice's hairbrush to Butler. We also sent the 0:09:34.496 --> 0:09:37.656 two size medium black thongs we found at Rick's fort. 0:09:38.276 --> 0:09:41.716 If she could get Mitrice's DNA from the hairbrush and 0:09:41.816 --> 0:09:45.016 DNA from the fort underwear, she'd be able to compare 0:09:45.056 --> 0:09:49.476 the profiles. There could be a match. She started with 0:09:49.496 --> 0:09:50.036 the hairbrush. 0:09:51.736 --> 0:09:54.686 So I took a few swabs. And I really got 0:09:54.706 --> 0:09:58.066 into the base of those bristles and there was plenty 0:09:58.086 --> 0:10:03.806 of material that was visible on the swabs. And I thought, great, 0:10:04.526 --> 0:10:09.556 this will be enough to get me something. 0:10:10.836 --> 0:10:14.296 But when Butler analyzed it, the material was very degraded, 0:10:14.696 --> 0:10:16.416 and there was almost no DNA. 0:10:17.356 --> 0:10:19.876 I would have wanted to see at least 10 times 0:10:19.946 --> 0:10:26.726 as much DNA to get at least a partial profile. 0:10:28.896 --> 0:10:33.856 And the quality was very poor. 0:10:35.536 --> 0:10:39.216 That was disappointing. But we could potentially build out Mitrice's 0:10:39.296 --> 0:10:42.616 DNA profile a different way, particularly if her dad was 0:10:42.656 --> 0:10:46.336 willing to help. So Butler moved on to see what, 0:10:46.716 --> 0:10:50.366 if anything, she could get from the Fort underwear. We'd 0:10:50.376 --> 0:10:53.506 warned her it was muddy, moldy, and damp, and as 0:10:53.546 --> 0:10:56.026 far as we knew, had been outside for more than 0:10:56.066 --> 0:11:00.126 a decade. She started with the pair that was most 0:11:00.186 --> 0:11:02.586 similar to the pair that Mitrice had in her car, 0:11:03.226 --> 0:11:06.666 the black thong, size medium, with the Rampage label. 0:11:07.856 --> 0:11:12.176 Well, those, when those came out of the bag, those 0:11:12.196 --> 0:11:17.636 were still wet. I know that bacterial degradation is probably 0:11:17.876 --> 0:11:22.156 actively happening. So right out of the gate, I thought, 0:11:22.396 --> 0:11:25.116 oh boy, this isn't good. 0:11:26.096 --> 0:11:29.626 She sampled the crotch area, extracted the DNA, and found 0:11:29.786 --> 0:11:31.126 only a tiny amount. 0:11:31.886 --> 0:11:34.606 Such a trace amount, it was the equivalent of a 0:11:35.706 --> 0:11:37.446 cell's worth of DNA. 0:11:38.486 --> 0:11:42.436 There was nowhere near enough DNA to identify an individual. 0:11:43.236 --> 0:11:47.016 We'd struck out. We didn't have the resources to test 0:11:47.076 --> 0:11:50.376 the rest of the fort underwear, but Butler encouraged us 0:11:50.556 --> 0:11:53.726 not to throw away what we'd found. so I called 0:11:53.766 --> 0:11:57.306 the cold case desk at the Sheriff's Department Homicide Bureau again. 0:11:57.806 --> 0:12:02.006 They could test it all, if they wanted to. The 0:12:02.046 --> 0:12:04.896 last time I spoke to Lieutenant Michael Modica, who's in 0:12:04.936 --> 0:12:07.636 charge of the cold case unit, he wasn't interested in 0:12:07.696 --> 0:12:10.836 hearing about any of our discoveries. But he did say 0:12:10.876 --> 0:12:12.756 to get in touch if we had any luck with 0:12:12.776 --> 0:12:16.176 the forensics. I feel like I owe him an answer, 0:12:16.196 --> 0:12:19.436 and I'm hoping to convince him to take the stash 0:12:19.456 --> 0:12:22.506 of underwear from Rick's fort and do something with it. 0:12:23.476 --> 0:12:25.156 Lieutenant Michael Modica. 0:12:26.476 --> 0:12:27.336 Is not available. 0:12:27.696 --> 0:12:29.156 Record your message at the tone. 0:12:29.176 --> 0:12:34.536 Hi, Lieutenant Modica. This is Dana Goodyear from the Lost 0:12:34.556 --> 0:12:38.636 Health Podcast. I left word for you on Monday regarding 0:12:38.726 --> 0:12:42.166 the Matrice Richardson case and some materials that I had 0:12:42.206 --> 0:12:44.046 mentioned to you. We've come to the end of the 0:12:44.086 --> 0:12:48.166 road with what we can do, and I'm just wondering 0:12:48.266 --> 0:12:51.876 if you might have any interest. I think that... Potentially, 0:12:51.896 --> 0:12:53.896 law enforcement would be able to take this further than 0:12:53.956 --> 0:12:54.756 we could using. 0:12:54.616 --> 0:12:58.096 A private lab. I'm still waiting for him to call 0:12:58.136 --> 0:13:03.266 me back. But in the meantime, we get a big surprise. 0:13:04.186 --> 0:13:09.926 Mark Wallace, Rick's firefighter friend, calls me. Rick stayed at 0:13:09.966 --> 0:13:13.636 Mark's place on and off between 2009, when Rick got 0:13:13.676 --> 0:13:17.736 out of prison, and 2012, when he was investigated again 0:13:17.856 --> 0:13:21.576 by the Sheriff's Department homicide detectives in the disappearance and 0:13:21.616 --> 0:13:25.986 death of Mitrice Richardson. Mark's supposed to be the guy 0:13:26.046 --> 0:13:30.706 who knows what happened. And now, Mark wants to talk. 0:13:47.986 --> 0:13:51.626 Mark Wallace dodged us for almost a year. It wasn't 0:13:51.686 --> 0:13:55.386 until we sent him a formal right-of-reply letter telling him 0:13:55.446 --> 0:13:58.426 what we were planning to report about Rick Forsberg and 0:13:58.446 --> 0:14:02.046 the goings-on at the Wallypad that he relented and said 0:14:02.076 --> 0:14:05.496 we could come over. But we're just talking for now. 0:14:06.096 --> 0:14:08.656 He doesn't want us to record, in case we might 0:14:08.676 --> 0:14:12.256 be cops. The first thing that happens when we get 0:14:12.296 --> 0:14:14.956 to the Wallypad is Mark has us move our cars. 0:14:15.956 --> 0:14:19.766 We've parked them at an intersection near his house. That's 0:14:19.826 --> 0:14:22.266 the place, he tells us, that the cops set up 0:14:22.346 --> 0:14:25.906 surveillance cameras back when Rick was crashing in his basement. 0:14:26.706 --> 0:14:29.746 The homicide detectives had shown him a big portfolio of 0:14:29.856 --> 0:14:33.076 photos of Rick and some of their other derelict friends 0:14:33.376 --> 0:14:37.476 doing speedballs in their car right there. Is it any 0:14:37.536 --> 0:14:42.586 wonder Mark's a little paranoid? Mark's in his 60s, boyish 0:14:42.756 --> 0:14:46.046 and wiry with a jumpy energy. He retired as a 0:14:46.086 --> 0:14:50.446 fire captain in January. His mother, who has dementia, lives 0:14:50.526 --> 0:14:55.906 next door. Lisa Goldman, Mark's wife, says she used to 0:14:55.926 --> 0:14:59.626 get the chills when Rick came around. Spooky is the 0:14:59.666 --> 0:15:04.696 word she uses. Psycho is what Mark says. Afraid of 0:15:04.786 --> 0:15:08.156 no one. Drunk and high every single day of his life. 0:15:10.236 --> 0:15:12.916 They show us the little basement room where Rick would stay. 0:15:13.556 --> 0:15:17.286 Back then, it had a dirt floor. Mark says that's 0:15:17.326 --> 0:15:20.766 where Raven made her video interview and where Rick choked 0:15:20.886 --> 0:15:26.146 Lisa Lepore and, he says, almost broke her neck. Mark 0:15:26.186 --> 0:15:29.416 tells us the footprints found outside his house are a 0:15:29.476 --> 0:15:33.196 red herring. The first indication he had that Rick was 0:15:33.236 --> 0:15:36.456 connected to Mitrice's death was when her body was discovered 0:15:36.636 --> 0:15:40.376 in Dark Canyon. The rangers said they were checking on 0:15:40.416 --> 0:15:46.076 a previously disrupted marijuana operation, presumably something large-scale. But Mark 0:15:46.116 --> 0:15:49.616 says when he saw the helicopter hovering over Dark Canyon, 0:15:50.116 --> 0:15:54.196 his first thought was, oh fuck, they're raiding Rick's patch. 0:15:56.316 --> 0:15:58.956 Rick had been growing weed in Dark Canyon since they 0:15:58.976 --> 0:16:02.516 were boys. No one dared go in there. Rick had 0:16:02.536 --> 0:16:06.616 the place booby-trapped. So when a woman's body turned up there, 0:16:07.436 --> 0:16:15.116 Mark immediately suspected Rick. Mark says Rick was a total charmer. 0:16:16.066 --> 0:16:19.476 the guy who always had the prettiest girlfriend, and, he says, 0:16:19.796 --> 0:16:24.156 could talk the pants off any chick. Hey, darling. That's 0:16:24.176 --> 0:16:27.216 what he'd say. But then he'd lose his temper over 0:16:27.296 --> 0:16:33.086 nothing and choke them out. Psycho. So Mark always had 0:16:33.126 --> 0:16:36.746 his suspicions. But, he tells us, it's not like he 0:16:36.786 --> 0:16:43.516 has some smoking gun. Some big confession from Rick. Mark says, quote, 0:16:44.066 --> 0:16:52.166 The Mitrice-Richardson case has everything, except proof. It's true. The 0:16:52.206 --> 0:16:56.106 case against Rick Forsberg is purely circumstantial at this point. 0:16:57.046 --> 0:17:01.736 But enough circumstantial evidence can close a case. So here 0:17:01.796 --> 0:17:05.736 is what we know and what we don't. We know 0:17:05.856 --> 0:17:09.596 Rick got out of prison in July 2009 and returned 0:17:09.636 --> 0:17:14.246 to Montanito, two months before Mitrice turned up there. We 0:17:14.306 --> 0:17:18.266 don't know how Mitrice got from Lost Hill Station to Montanito. 0:17:19.026 --> 0:17:22.026 The timing is such that she could have walked, though 0:17:22.046 --> 0:17:26.036 her mother thought that was unlikely. We know Rick had 0:17:26.116 --> 0:17:29.476 access to a motorcycle, and he said he picked Mitrice up. 0:17:30.296 --> 0:17:34.016 We don't know where or when. The motorcycle could help 0:17:34.096 --> 0:17:40.386 explain Mitrice's disappearing scent and non-continuous footprints. We know Mitrice 0:17:40.566 --> 0:17:44.366 loitered outside Mark Wallace's house around the time of her disappearance. 0:17:45.286 --> 0:17:47.766 We don't know if Rick was at Mark's at the time, 0:17:48.106 --> 0:17:51.296 and we have no evidence that Mitrice went onto Mark's property. 0:17:52.636 --> 0:17:54.956 We know Rick knew how to get into Dark Canyon, 0:17:55.376 --> 0:18:00.296 where Mitrice's remains were found. We know Mitrice liked motorcycles 0:18:00.596 --> 0:18:03.426 and smoking pot, and that she was in an altered 0:18:03.546 --> 0:18:07.126 state where her normal decision-making processes may have been suspended. 0:18:08.226 --> 0:18:11.806 Not to mention, she was probably growing desperate. She may 0:18:11.826 --> 0:18:16.716 have been hungry, thirsty, and looking for help. Hey, darling. 0:18:18.306 --> 0:18:21.596 We don't know if Mitrice went willingly into Dark Canyon. 0:18:22.536 --> 0:18:26.156 We don't know why her remains were partially mummified. Was 0:18:26.216 --> 0:18:29.636 that due to the fluctuating temperatures and soil conditions in 0:18:29.696 --> 0:18:33.016 Dark Canyon? Or does it indicate her remains were kept 0:18:33.116 --> 0:18:38.636 somewhere else, then moved? We know Mitrice's death was suspicious. 0:18:39.436 --> 0:18:43.916 A young woman, naked, in a canyon, half her clothes missing, 0:18:44.216 --> 0:18:47.156 the rest of them scattered, her belt out of her 0:18:47.196 --> 0:18:56.186 belt loops. We don't know how Mitrice died. Her death 0:18:56.286 --> 0:18:59.626 could have been an accident. What if she was hanging 0:18:59.706 --> 0:19:06.286 out with Rick Forsberg and fell or overdosed? The autopsy, unfortunately, 0:19:06.486 --> 0:19:11.236 was inconclusive. There wasn't enough soft tissue left. We do 0:19:11.276 --> 0:19:14.876 know it's highly improbable that Mitrice died from gunshot or 0:19:14.936 --> 0:19:18.796 knife wound or blunt force trauma. No indications of trauma 0:19:18.836 --> 0:19:23.286 were observed. And the comment Lisa Lepore repeated about Rick 0:19:23.666 --> 0:19:26.766 cutting her up, if such a remark was made, it 0:19:26.806 --> 0:19:30.606 was probably not literal. There was nothing on Mitrice's bones 0:19:30.666 --> 0:19:34.776 to indicate dismemberment. though according to the forensic pathologist who 0:19:34.816 --> 0:19:38.816 conducted the autopsy, her throat could have been cut. Without 0:19:38.876 --> 0:19:43.146 soft tissue, there would be no way to know. Was 0:19:43.206 --> 0:19:48.686 Mitrice strangled? If investigators had found her hyoid bone and 0:19:48.726 --> 0:19:52.066 it had been broken, that could have been definitive, but 0:19:52.086 --> 0:19:55.606 it was never found. So we don't know if Matrice 0:19:55.626 --> 0:20:00.486 was strangled. We do know Rick said he picked her up. 0:20:01.586 --> 0:20:05.316 We do know Rick had a history of violence against women. 0:20:06.656 --> 0:20:09.976 We do know he had a history of strangling women. 0:20:11.856 --> 0:20:14.596 We know when it comes to strangulation, strangulation is a 0:20:14.616 --> 0:20:15.336 gender crime. 0:20:16.116 --> 0:20:19.516 Gail Strack is a former prosecutor and an expert on 0:20:19.576 --> 0:20:25.116 strangulation in cases of domestic violence. She says strangulation is 0:20:25.196 --> 0:20:26.796 typically a prelude to murder. 0:20:27.636 --> 0:20:31.016 If you look at the continuum of violence, strangulation is 0:20:31.116 --> 0:20:34.256 at the end of just before a homicide. 0:20:35.036 --> 0:20:37.886 The act of strangling and the act of strangling to 0:20:37.926 --> 0:20:39.786 death are essentially the same. 0:20:40.606 --> 0:20:43.306 And when somebody is willing to put their hands around 0:20:43.326 --> 0:20:46.606 someone's neck, and especially take them to the point where 0:20:46.626 --> 0:20:50.126 they pass out, they think they're going to die. It 0:20:50.466 --> 0:20:53.586 is a calling card of a killer. It is a 0:20:53.626 --> 0:20:57.026 killer raising his hand and saying, I am willing and 0:20:57.126 --> 0:20:58.686 capable of killing someone. 0:21:00.006 --> 0:21:03.216 Strangulation is one of the easiest forms of homicide to 0:21:03.246 --> 0:21:04.996 commit and to cover up. 0:21:05.756 --> 0:21:09.476 It only takes 11 pounds of pressure, and that is 0:21:09.616 --> 0:21:10.436 really nothing. 0:21:11.196 --> 0:21:11.496 Dr. 0:21:11.536 --> 0:21:14.696 Bill Smock. a sworn police officer and an expert in 0:21:14.736 --> 0:21:19.096 forensic medicine, says strangulation can pose a challenge to law enforcement. 0:21:19.836 --> 0:21:22.846 It's a crime that can leave no marks, and it 0:21:22.906 --> 0:21:25.106 requires surprisingly little strength. 0:21:26.206 --> 0:21:29.806 If you think an adult male handshake generates 100 pounds 0:21:29.876 --> 0:21:33.816 of pressure, one-tenth of that is all that's required to 0:21:33.836 --> 0:21:37.116 occlude blood flow to the brain via the carotid arteries. 0:21:37.826 --> 0:21:38.186 Dr. 0:21:38.206 --> 0:21:40.986 Smock was one of the key experts to testify in 0:21:41.006 --> 0:21:45.006 the prosecution of Derek Chauvin, the police officer found guilty 0:21:45.066 --> 0:21:46.366 of killing George Floyd. 0:21:47.126 --> 0:21:50.876 If you apply a bicep and forearm to the human neck, 0:21:51.496 --> 0:21:54.896 you have a large surface area where that pressure is applied. Again, 0:21:55.516 --> 0:21:58.876 it can be applied in such a manner, even with 0:21:58.956 --> 0:22:01.636 more than 11 pounds of pressure, and you will never 0:22:01.796 --> 0:22:02.676 leave a mark. 0:22:03.436 --> 0:22:06.696 We talk about the specifics of Mitrice's case. and what 0:22:06.756 --> 0:22:10.756 seems to me the glaringly inadequate explanation law enforcement gave 0:22:10.816 --> 0:22:14.636 about her death. Their view that, being mentally ill, she 0:22:14.676 --> 0:22:16.276 probably just chose to die. 0:22:16.296 --> 0:22:22.506 And that's totally BS. We call those a diagnosis of exclusion. 0:22:23.166 --> 0:22:27.246 Once you've ruled out everything else, but clearly a woman 0:22:27.286 --> 0:22:31.786 who is found dead and naked is high on the 0:22:31.826 --> 0:22:33.166 suspicious list. 0:22:33.906 --> 0:22:38.666 The circumstances of Mitrice's death, Dr. Smock says, suggest a homicide. 0:22:39.226 --> 0:22:44.176 You have to assume that it's a homicide until proven otherwise. Plus, 0:22:44.376 --> 0:22:47.976 you have her clothes are away from the body. The 0:22:48.036 --> 0:22:51.856 belt is out. Was the belt used as a weapon? 0:22:52.146 --> 0:22:55.506 Whose DNA is on that belt? Why is it out 0:22:55.546 --> 0:22:58.786 of the pants? Things that you have to explain. You 0:22:58.846 --> 0:23:01.886 can't just say, oh, she died. took her clothes off, 0:23:02.186 --> 0:23:04.046 and went over there and laid down to die. No, 0:23:04.066 --> 0:23:08.086 24-year-olds can't lie down and will yourself to die. 0:23:15.226 --> 0:23:20.216 And so it's just kind of weird for me to 0:23:20.236 --> 0:23:25.376 be saying. 0:23:22.856 --> 0:23:23.116 It, but. 0:23:24.096 --> 0:23:27.596 Finally, Mark Wallace is ready for us to hit record. 0:23:28.496 --> 0:23:30.656 All right, well, are you recording now or something? 0:23:30.696 --> 0:23:30.976 Yes, you are. 0:23:30.996 --> 0:23:31.596 I see. 0:23:32.896 --> 0:23:35.156 For more than two hours, Haley and I have been 0:23:35.216 --> 0:23:38.756 sitting by his pool. It's a beautiful spot, looking out 0:23:38.916 --> 0:23:42.096 over the Santa Monica Mountains and the backside of Dark Canyon. 0:23:43.176 --> 0:23:46.036 Mark thinks of his pool as a swimming hole and 0:23:46.056 --> 0:23:49.256 the big boulder, which Rick placed for him, as a 0:23:49.316 --> 0:23:52.536 diving rock, like the spots they found in the canyon 0:23:52.576 --> 0:23:57.356 creeks when they were boys. Mark's got deep loyalty to Rick. 0:23:57.856 --> 0:24:00.916 and to the way they were raised in Montanito. He's 0:24:00.976 --> 0:24:03.716 not sure what he might be risking by talking to us. 0:24:05.016 --> 0:24:08.746 So the cops could listen to me and decide they 0:24:08.786 --> 0:24:13.906 want to fuck with me. My friends could listen to 0:24:13.946 --> 0:24:21.766 me and think I'm a rat or something else, you know. 0:24:24.916 --> 0:24:27.556 But he also has a little more information about Rick 0:24:28.406 --> 0:24:31.456 And in spite of his reluctance, he's going to share it. 0:24:32.866 --> 0:24:33.046 All right. 0:24:33.066 --> 0:24:33.986 So what do you want? 0:24:36.666 --> 0:24:38.906 I want to hear the story of what happened when 0:24:38.946 --> 0:24:43.486 the sheriff's homicide detectives interviewed Mark about Rick back in 0:24:43.486 --> 0:24:47.626 2012 when Rick was crashing in his basement. They spoke 0:24:47.666 --> 0:24:50.766 to him for five hours in a conference room at 0:24:50.786 --> 0:24:54.036 his firehouse. And at the end, they asked him for 0:24:54.076 --> 0:24:56.716 his help because they knew Rick was violent. 0:24:58.216 --> 0:25:00.096 They told me they wanted to take Rick in for 0:25:00.156 --> 0:25:05.456 questioning and that last time he was taken in, he 0:25:05.496 --> 0:25:08.696 fought the cops and he broke one's arm or leg 0:25:08.736 --> 0:25:10.636 or something and then he also bit a hole in 0:25:10.696 --> 0:25:15.516 another one's chest, fighting him. And then, so they didn't 0:25:15.536 --> 0:25:17.726 want to have that happen again. So they wanted me 0:25:17.766 --> 0:25:23.166 to smooth the way for Rick to be interviewed and 0:25:23.266 --> 0:25:25.226 to get a lie detector test. 0:25:26.136 --> 0:25:28.896 Mark went home and told Rick that the homicide detectives 0:25:28.996 --> 0:25:31.896 wanted to talk to him about the disappearance and possible 0:25:31.936 --> 0:25:36.736 murder of Mitrice Richardson. Mark says Rick gasped. 0:25:37.676 --> 0:25:40.256 Yeah, he was like, oh my God, like the cops, what? 0:25:40.496 --> 0:25:44.366 The cops are fucking got me down as the, as 0:25:44.426 --> 0:25:47.756 a suspect. They want to talk to me about it, 0:25:47.826 --> 0:25:50.526 you know, and I mean, he didn't, it just, he just, 0:25:51.146 --> 0:25:52.826 Rick has a way of like, just kind of like 0:25:52.866 --> 0:25:55.806 looking through you and sometimes, and He kind of, like, 0:25:56.006 --> 0:25:58.226 got the information from me, and then he was off 0:25:58.266 --> 0:26:00.906 in his own mind, like, trying to figure out what 0:26:00.946 --> 0:26:06.576 he's going to do about it. He freaked out and 0:26:06.696 --> 0:26:10.236 started grabbing for his phone, like, I got to call 0:26:10.256 --> 0:26:11.156 Steve right now. 0:26:12.096 --> 0:26:16.556 Rick called Steve Gilbert, another Montanito boy who has since died, 0:26:17.296 --> 0:26:18.276 but he didn't reach him. 0:26:19.436 --> 0:26:21.296 He left Steve a message right in front of me 0:26:21.316 --> 0:26:26.696 and said, Steve, the cops think I murdered somebody. And 0:26:27.336 --> 0:26:29.676 then he said, I got stuff I got to get 0:26:29.776 --> 0:26:35.176 out of my place. I don't know what it was. 0:26:36.176 --> 0:26:39.736